Genesis: Together and Apart

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0:00:02 > 0:00:06This programme contains some strong language.

0:00:06 > 0:00:12CHANTING: Genesis. Genesis. Genesis. Genesis...

0:00:15 > 0:00:18CHANTING CONTINUES

0:00:25 > 0:00:28MUSIC: Turn It On Again

0:00:33 > 0:00:35Yeah, forget about all this other bullshit.

0:00:35 > 0:00:36We are entertaining people,

0:00:36 > 0:00:40and if they're entertained we've done our job properly!

0:00:40 > 0:00:41MUSIC: Invisible Touch

0:00:41 > 0:00:44# She seems to have an invisible touch yeah

0:00:44 > 0:00:47# She reaches in and she grabs right hold of your heart... #

0:00:47 > 0:00:49No, I love this. It's great having hits.

0:00:49 > 0:00:51MUSIC: Jesus He Knows Me

0:00:51 > 0:00:54# Cos Jesus he knows me and he knows I'm right... #

0:00:54 > 0:00:57In those days there were no real rules. I think

0:00:57 > 0:00:59we were just trying to be a bit different,

0:00:59 > 0:01:02because the canvas in those days in the '60s

0:01:02 > 0:01:03and the '70s was pretty blank.

0:01:03 > 0:01:06MUSIC: The Knife

0:01:06 > 0:01:08# Carry their heads to the palace of old

0:01:08 > 0:01:10# Hang them high let the blood flow... #

0:01:12 > 0:01:14The basic feel was radically different

0:01:14 > 0:01:15than anything I'd ever done.

0:01:15 > 0:01:17Very British, actually!

0:01:19 > 0:01:21Aye, aye, aye, ah!

0:01:21 > 0:01:24It's not country, it's not rock, it's not jazz, you know,

0:01:24 > 0:01:26it's Genesis.

0:01:26 > 0:01:30# There must be some misunderstanding... #

0:01:31 > 0:01:35A very competitive band, no doubt about that. Very gifted,

0:01:35 > 0:01:38but with those gifts, you know, there's a certain price.

0:01:38 > 0:01:40MUSIC: I Can't Dance

0:01:40 > 0:01:43It was always, you know, beating each other into submission.

0:01:43 > 0:01:45# I can't talk... #

0:01:45 > 0:01:46We pulled rank!

0:01:46 > 0:01:50# The only thing about me is the way that I walk... #

0:01:50 > 0:01:53Peter and I used to fight a lot. Very close friends but, you know,

0:01:53 > 0:01:55used to argue about silly little things.

0:01:55 > 0:01:59MUSIC: I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe)

0:01:59 > 0:02:02No, he was a really awkward bastard!

0:02:02 > 0:02:04But we loved each other too,

0:02:04 > 0:02:06you know, there was a real bond.

0:02:06 > 0:02:10They were at the forefront of what we now think of as prog rock.

0:02:10 > 0:02:12Then in the '80s, they were a massive

0:02:12 > 0:02:14rock/pop band on both sides of the Atlantic.

0:02:14 > 0:02:16MUSIC: That's All

0:02:16 > 0:02:18# Just as I thought it was going all right

0:02:18 > 0:02:20# I found that I'm wrong when I thought I was right

0:02:20 > 0:02:22# It's always the same it's just a shame

0:02:22 > 0:02:24# That's all... #

0:02:24 > 0:02:27Genesis were never cool, and Genesis are proof that, ultimately,

0:02:27 > 0:02:29in rock music brains win out.

0:02:29 > 0:02:31MUSIC: Sledgehammer by Peter Gabriel

0:02:31 > 0:02:36# I wanna be your sledgehammer... #

0:02:36 > 0:02:40There's something in the DNA of that group that's still connected,

0:02:40 > 0:02:42even though they were in different places.

0:02:42 > 0:02:45MUSIC: In The Air Tonight by Phil Collins

0:02:45 > 0:02:50# I can feel it coming in the air tonight... #

0:02:50 > 0:02:53Whenever, sort of, Spinal Tap is on or something and you see these

0:02:53 > 0:02:59moments you think, "I've been in a band like that! That's Genesis".

0:02:59 > 0:03:00No, they don't think so.

0:03:08 > 0:03:11We had something that none of us could do on our own.

0:03:28 > 0:03:32MUSIC: A Change Is Gonna Come by Otis Redding

0:03:34 > 0:03:39I was at school, and I remember exactly which room I was in,

0:03:39 > 0:03:43and I heard this thing coming out of the radio, and phrew.

0:03:43 > 0:03:47Otis Reading was my hero at that time, I think.

0:03:47 > 0:03:52It felt very free, it was sort of hot, sexy, alive,

0:03:52 > 0:03:59and it had obviously come out of blues and pain and suffering.

0:03:59 > 0:04:02# That change has gotta come, yeah

0:04:02 > 0:04:05# Ooh, yes, it is oh, my, oh, my... #

0:04:05 > 0:04:08The rigours of that school would have given them something to kick against.

0:04:08 > 0:04:11There was a revolutionary impulse within them, which is that -

0:04:11 > 0:04:13despite the constraints of that,

0:04:13 > 0:04:15you know, very traditional public school education -

0:04:15 > 0:04:17they thought, "We want to make a living out of music."

0:04:17 > 0:04:20It was music that got them through their day.

0:04:20 > 0:04:22That's where Genesis developed this desire to create something

0:04:22 > 0:04:25that was elaborate and big and grand

0:04:25 > 0:04:28and sprawling, that kind of pushed those rigours out of their life.

0:04:28 > 0:04:31The demo session was Mike and I saying, "Tony will you come

0:04:31 > 0:04:34"and help us with the keyboards?" And he said, "Yeah, I'll do it

0:04:34 > 0:04:37"if my mate Peter Gabriel can come along and sing one song."

0:04:37 > 0:04:39It was called She Is Beautiful to start with.

0:04:39 > 0:04:42I'm not sure what it ended up as. It was a lovely song.

0:04:42 > 0:04:44So we hustled our way into their session.

0:04:45 > 0:04:47# She is beautiful

0:04:47 > 0:04:49# Very beautiful... #

0:04:49 > 0:04:54We'd done these demos and it was OC's day, Old Carthusian day,

0:04:54 > 0:04:57Jonathan King was spotted there.

0:04:57 > 0:04:59I was a successful pop star,

0:04:59 > 0:05:02the first act on the London Top Of The Pops show.

0:05:02 > 0:05:06And, of course, I went back to Charterhouse in glory,

0:05:06 > 0:05:08in my little Austin-Healey Sprite.

0:05:08 > 0:05:11And one of the kids at Charterhouse rushed up to me

0:05:11 > 0:05:15with a grubby cassette tape, that I still have to this day,

0:05:15 > 0:05:18and said, "Oh, this is the school group, listen to it."

0:05:18 > 0:05:21# For them you're just a product

0:05:22 > 0:05:26# For me you're the one I love

0:05:26 > 0:05:29# Baby... #

0:05:29 > 0:05:32The lead singer had THE most wonderful voice, I thought.

0:05:32 > 0:05:35So I got in touch with them and said,

0:05:35 > 0:05:37"Look, I really like the sound of you, I'd like to produce you."

0:05:37 > 0:05:39And they said, "Oh, yes, please".

0:05:39 > 0:05:42I gave them the name Genesis because that, to me,

0:05:42 > 0:05:44was the start of my production career.

0:05:48 > 0:05:51We did an album - From Genesis To Revelation

0:05:51 > 0:05:53which was just bought by us and our friends.

0:05:53 > 0:05:56And, you know, and then pretty much that looked like it, and he,

0:05:56 > 0:05:59sort of, was losing interest and everything, which was fair enough.

0:05:59 > 0:06:02I'm not very good with really good creative artists.

0:06:02 > 0:06:06I'm actually better with people just doing as I say,

0:06:06 > 0:06:08because it's my work of art that I want to do.

0:06:10 > 0:06:13My parents had a cottage near Dorking in Surrey, quite remote.

0:06:13 > 0:06:16They let us use it.

0:06:16 > 0:06:18You know, it was very turbulent.

0:06:18 > 0:06:22They're very strong characters, you know, and we were kind of -

0:06:22 > 0:06:25slightly... t was a bit of a pressure cooker situation.

0:06:25 > 0:06:27The guys never saw their girlfriends half the time, it was

0:06:27 > 0:06:29positively draconian.

0:06:29 > 0:06:31But we were too serious. We never went for walks.

0:06:31 > 0:06:34We weren't the sort of group to go down the pub and have pints

0:06:34 > 0:06:36and, you know, relax.

0:06:38 > 0:06:41Ant was also, probably, the best musician at the time.

0:06:41 > 0:06:43He was the only one who could actually do something

0:06:43 > 0:06:45with his instrument.

0:06:49 > 0:06:52And he kind of brought me on really, he taught me some chords.

0:06:52 > 0:06:54Kind of early days in the writing sessions

0:06:54 > 0:06:56with Ant it was two guitars.

0:06:56 > 0:06:59Ant and myself playing guitars, Tony keyboards

0:06:59 > 0:07:02and Pete a bit of keyboards, you know, but more the vocals really.

0:07:02 > 0:07:06Sneaking away from school to come to these hippie events,

0:07:06 > 0:07:10to then be offered to perform in an Atomic Sunrise Festival, it sounded,

0:07:10 > 0:07:14you know, like a thing we couldn't say no to.

0:07:14 > 0:07:16The Roundhouse was somewhere where, you know,

0:07:16 > 0:07:20concerts were not just concerts, they were happenings, you know,

0:07:20 > 0:07:23and it would be somewhere you'd go to commune with kindred spirits.

0:07:23 > 0:07:25People would sit and happily close their eyes

0:07:25 > 0:07:27and listen to songs that lasted 25 minutes.

0:07:27 > 0:07:30And Genesis just at that time fitted right in there.

0:07:30 > 0:07:33I remember finding it all starting to get terribly tense,

0:07:33 > 0:07:35and I used to be very frightened.

0:07:45 > 0:07:48# Looking for someone

0:07:51 > 0:07:55# I guess I'm doing that

0:07:57 > 0:08:01# Trying to find a memory in a dark room

0:08:01 > 0:08:03# Dirty man, "You're looking like a Buddha"

0:08:03 > 0:08:05# I heard him say... #

0:08:07 > 0:08:10The Atomic Sunrise Festival I remember mainly for there

0:08:10 > 0:08:13being more people on stage than there were in the audience.

0:08:13 > 0:08:18Tony and I, particularly Tony, were both Bowie fans from very early on.

0:08:18 > 0:08:22# Children of the summer's end

0:08:22 > 0:08:25# Gathered in the dampened grass... #

0:08:25 > 0:08:28Bowie's band were very theatrical at the time

0:08:28 > 0:08:31and it wasn't sort of Ziggy-type costumes,

0:08:31 > 0:08:36it was more sort of raiding the theatre costume department.

0:08:36 > 0:08:38Then of course came the first official,

0:08:38 > 0:08:41if you like, Genesis album, with Trespass.

0:08:44 > 0:08:46Where they were starting to get their proper sound together.

0:08:46 > 0:08:47It's not quite there,

0:08:47 > 0:08:51but you can hear the seeds of what they became within it.

0:08:51 > 0:08:53And it has, famously, the track The Knife.

0:09:02 > 0:09:04And I looked at the guitar and I thought,

0:09:04 > 0:09:08"I haven't got a clue, not a clue what comes next."

0:09:08 > 0:09:12And then I saw myself playing this thing, but it was really scary.

0:09:12 > 0:09:15I eventually just sort of went kerblonk really.

0:09:17 > 0:09:20I tried fighting through it, but I didn't make it.

0:09:21 > 0:09:24Well, Anthony Phillips was a fantastic musician,

0:09:24 > 0:09:27he was very much part of the original collective.

0:09:27 > 0:09:30And when he left, it could have very easily have been the end of Genesis.

0:09:30 > 0:09:32We wouldn't be having this discussion,

0:09:32 > 0:09:35because they did very seriously consider calling it a day.

0:09:35 > 0:09:37That was a very, very significant loss.

0:09:37 > 0:09:39I mean Ant leaving was far

0:09:39 > 0:09:43and away the most significant moment in Genesis's history.

0:09:43 > 0:09:44People don't quite realise

0:09:44 > 0:09:47how important a character he was.

0:09:47 > 0:09:49I would say he was...

0:09:49 > 0:09:52very much the driving force.

0:09:52 > 0:09:54I felt it was the right thing to do.

0:09:54 > 0:09:57If I hadn't left they may never have got Phil Collins.

0:09:57 > 0:09:59So, I mean...

0:10:00 > 0:10:03All I wanted to do was to be able to play the drums

0:10:03 > 0:10:05and make enough money to live.

0:10:05 > 0:10:07It wouldn't be stardom or anything.

0:10:07 > 0:10:11I was a professional musician in a semi-professional band.

0:10:11 > 0:10:13The band would have day jobs and, you know, and we'd all meet up,

0:10:13 > 0:10:17but I was the one that was actually existing on whatever we earned.

0:10:17 > 0:10:19Phil comes along, Dad's in insurance,

0:10:19 > 0:10:23he's a Hounslow boy, a good West London boy, but he does bring

0:10:23 > 0:10:26some creativity with him because Phil's mother, June,

0:10:26 > 0:10:30also worked with Barbara Speake at the Barbara Speake Stage School.

0:10:30 > 0:10:33The first thing he did was bring this incredibly direct

0:10:33 > 0:10:35and brilliant musical drumming.

0:10:35 > 0:10:36He can play anything.

0:10:36 > 0:10:40He can play your soul music, your prog music, your jazz music,

0:10:40 > 0:10:42your fusion. He can play it.

0:10:42 > 0:10:47And he brought that incredible confidence, I think, to their sound.

0:10:47 > 0:10:49You know, I was a stage-school kid,

0:10:49 > 0:10:52I was from a very different background.

0:10:52 > 0:10:54I'd been playing music all my life,

0:10:54 > 0:11:00whereas music, to them... was...a restricted subject.

0:11:00 > 0:11:03You know, I mean, you weren't supposed to play

0:11:03 > 0:11:04guitar at Charterhouse.

0:11:06 > 0:11:09And they were kind of very precious,

0:11:09 > 0:11:11you know, it really mattered.

0:11:11 > 0:11:14You know, "You're playing what kind of A chord?

0:11:14 > 0:11:16"No, no, that's not the best inversion of the A."

0:11:16 > 0:11:19You know, I mean, things like that.

0:11:22 > 0:11:25It was just unbelievable. The difference?

0:11:25 > 0:11:27I never ever, ever could have imagined

0:11:27 > 0:11:28in a million years the difference

0:11:28 > 0:11:30a drummer could make.

0:11:30 > 0:11:33Oh, my God, he was... It was unbelievable.

0:11:33 > 0:11:35He transformed the music.

0:11:38 > 0:11:40It was very apparent to us that he was a really good drummer,

0:11:40 > 0:11:43you know, had a fantastic sense of rhythm and stuff,

0:11:43 > 0:11:45which... We were all a bit stiff, you know?

0:11:53 > 0:11:56He understood and felt things and, you know,

0:11:56 > 0:12:00it was thank God for me that I can talk to someone who actually

0:12:00 > 0:12:02knows the realities of life.

0:12:04 > 0:12:06And he had a lightness as a personality too.

0:12:06 > 0:12:09He could joke and stuff and everything, you know,

0:12:09 > 0:12:12much better than... We were very intense.

0:12:12 > 0:12:13It was very incestuous.

0:12:13 > 0:12:17You know, we did nothing but this so, obviously, you know,

0:12:17 > 0:12:20people got irritated with each other.

0:12:22 > 0:12:25I remember storming out of... when we were rehearsing one place,

0:12:25 > 0:12:27first time with Phil.

0:12:27 > 0:12:30You know, it just must have been difficult for him I think.

0:12:30 > 0:12:31I was amazed he stayed.

0:12:31 > 0:12:36All this friction or sort of tension that was under...

0:12:36 > 0:12:41you know, kind of under wraps occasionally would boil over

0:12:41 > 0:12:43and someone would get up and walk out.

0:12:43 > 0:12:46And I'd..."Did I miss something, what happened?" You know?

0:12:46 > 0:12:47LAUGHTER

0:12:47 > 0:12:50- And it would be like... - (MUMBLES)- .."Fucking..."

0:12:50 > 0:12:51LAUGHTER

0:12:51 > 0:12:52Off into the distance.

0:12:52 > 0:12:55Because Phil like felt a professional who'd played with

0:12:55 > 0:12:59other musicians and was just getting on with the work, whereas we had all

0:12:59 > 0:13:04these intense, sort of, dysfunctional family arguments going on.

0:13:04 > 0:13:07They discussed these things under a sort of stifling cloak

0:13:07 > 0:13:10of British reserve, which is very typical of the public schoolboy.

0:13:10 > 0:13:13And I imagine that the workings of that band were quite

0:13:13 > 0:13:15mystifying to Collins.

0:13:15 > 0:13:18But I imagine he was something of a breath of fresh air.

0:13:18 > 0:13:21It was always, you know, beating each other into submission.

0:13:22 > 0:13:25But that was fun, I mean, I was in a band, I was in a thinking band.

0:13:25 > 0:13:28You know, as far as I was concerned it made a big change from what

0:13:28 > 0:13:30I'd, kind of, been playing.

0:13:30 > 0:13:34And that was the first time that it felt like there was some chance

0:13:34 > 0:13:39of this combo gelling and delivering something with a bit of punch.

0:13:39 > 0:13:43Things that had seemed really hard work, you know, like pushing

0:13:43 > 0:13:47this big thing up a hill, suddenly it was downhill and we could smile.

0:13:53 > 0:13:55When Steve Hackett joined it was another kind of big

0:13:55 > 0:13:58moment in the Genesis story. An absolutely stunning musician.

0:13:58 > 0:14:00He could make a guitar sound like any instrument.

0:14:00 > 0:14:05It was really a little bit like being thrown in at the deep end.

0:14:05 > 0:14:11I mean, I'd really been a legend in my own bedroom at that point.

0:14:11 > 0:14:15Yes, I could play screaming solos very, very quietly on this little

0:14:15 > 0:14:20radio that served as an amp, and then suddenly to work with a band.

0:14:20 > 0:14:24And we all met him at Tony's flat.

0:14:24 > 0:14:26And he was very dark,

0:14:26 > 0:14:29but he always gave the impression of being very serious, you know,

0:14:29 > 0:14:32with his black glasses, black hair.

0:14:32 > 0:14:36I sat down and played three different styles of things

0:14:36 > 0:14:38to them, and I remember Pete famously saying,

0:14:38 > 0:14:42"I think we can use the first style, I'm not sure about the other two."

0:14:45 > 0:14:46We liked his approach.

0:14:46 > 0:14:49He was a very accomplished guitarist without wanting to be

0:14:49 > 0:14:52a sort of flash guitarist at all, you know?

0:14:52 > 0:14:56And he was interested in, sort of, combinations and all the rest of it.

0:15:04 > 0:15:06Literally, and then there were five,

0:15:06 > 0:15:09and that really was the classic band.

0:15:09 > 0:15:12And Steve just had - he was just perfect.

0:15:20 > 0:15:23Nursery Cryme was when they began to get a few sniffs at what

0:15:23 > 0:15:25they were doing.

0:15:25 > 0:15:27It went into - you know, scraped into the Top 40,

0:15:27 > 0:15:30and you can hear the sound coalescing, coming together there.

0:15:30 > 0:15:34But at the time, of course, it was called progressive rock.

0:15:34 > 0:15:38Involved no limits, basically, no barriers.

0:15:38 > 0:15:39So they were testing the barriers,

0:15:39 > 0:15:42learning how far they could push this and realising that they

0:15:42 > 0:15:45could actually push it a lot further than 4x4 beach music.

0:15:45 > 0:15:48Prog rock to... If you were trying to explain it to an alien who'd

0:15:48 > 0:15:52just landed on Earth - I'd say songs that last 20-minutes plus,

0:15:52 > 0:15:55have mythical allegories and strange creatures in them,

0:15:55 > 0:16:00perhaps, you know, uniforms in the case of Genesis and standing stones.

0:16:00 > 0:16:03There's something very, very English about Genesis's music that,

0:16:03 > 0:16:07to me, it's an England beyond psychedelia.

0:16:07 > 0:16:12# But I am lost within this half-world

0:16:15 > 0:16:18# It hardly seems to matter now... #

0:16:20 > 0:16:23The guys were terrible at tuning the 12 strings

0:16:23 > 0:16:27and they would take, sometimes, five minutes between songs.

0:16:27 > 0:16:29Everyone looks at the singer...

0:16:31 > 0:16:34.."Entertain us," you know?

0:16:34 > 0:16:38So that's what I realised I had to start doing.

0:16:44 > 0:16:47He's not particularly at ease with an audience

0:16:47 > 0:16:49until he became someone else, you know?

0:16:49 > 0:16:52The first time he ever wore a costume was, obviously,

0:16:52 > 0:16:55the infamous time in Dublin in the boxing ring.

0:16:55 > 0:16:57He hadn't told us about it, which was just as well

0:16:57 > 0:16:59because we'd never have let him do it.

0:17:02 > 0:17:06There's quite a long instrumental passage in the middle

0:17:06 > 0:17:08and Peter went off.

0:17:08 > 0:17:12He certainly didn't tell Tony Banks because I think, rightly,

0:17:12 > 0:17:15he thought that Tony would veto it.

0:17:15 > 0:17:18I was always afraid that these guys, you know,

0:17:18 > 0:17:23would start arguing about any of the visual costume bit that

0:17:23 > 0:17:27I was trying to do, and so I would bring the stuff in.

0:17:27 > 0:17:29I'd smuggle it in.

0:17:29 > 0:17:31I'd smuggle it in as late as possible,

0:17:31 > 0:17:35when they were so preoccupied with getting everything else

0:17:35 > 0:17:39sorted, that I could sort of get away with whatever shit was in my head!

0:17:44 > 0:17:47- KATE MOSSMAN:- Peter's impulse to dress up in these elaborate clothes

0:17:47 > 0:17:50and his wife's dress with a fox's head.

0:17:50 > 0:17:51I mean for him

0:17:51 > 0:17:54it was shyness, as I understand.

0:17:54 > 0:17:56I mean, he was a beautiful young man,

0:17:56 > 0:18:00but he was not sexually confident in the stagey way like Jagger was.

0:18:00 > 0:18:04And he wasn't even as sort of committed to the

0:18:04 > 0:18:06personas as Bowie was at that point.

0:18:06 > 0:18:08So the likes of Bowie were doing it,

0:18:08 > 0:18:10the likes of Mark Bolan, you know, the wearing of make-up,

0:18:10 > 0:18:13all that kind of stuff which didn't go down well across the Atlantic.

0:18:13 > 0:18:16Americans - "What are these Brits doing in frocks?"

0:18:16 > 0:18:17You know - "We don't want any of that.

0:18:17 > 0:18:19"We want rock'n'roll. Rock'n'roll!"

0:18:19 > 0:18:21MUSIC: The Musical Box

0:18:21 > 0:18:23# I've been waiting here for so long

0:18:25 > 0:18:30# And all this time has passed me by... #

0:18:30 > 0:18:32It was dark, it was a sort of dark energy,

0:18:32 > 0:18:35and it was scary to people and shocking.

0:18:35 > 0:18:38You know, he didn't run it via the committee.

0:18:38 > 0:18:41He bullishly went ahead and did it.

0:18:41 > 0:18:44And if he hadn't, I suspect that Genesis perhaps would not

0:18:44 > 0:18:47have gotten as far so quickly.

0:18:52 > 0:18:54CHEERING

0:18:54 > 0:18:56It brought the house down.

0:18:56 > 0:18:59It put a nought on the end of our earnings.

0:18:59 > 0:19:02The costumes at that point

0:19:02 > 0:19:03were not intrusive.

0:19:03 > 0:19:06I mean, it kind of just seemed to be part of what Genesis were,

0:19:06 > 0:19:08and I was all for it.

0:19:10 > 0:19:14I am the voice of Britain before the Daily Express.

0:19:18 > 0:19:20My name is Britannia.

0:19:34 > 0:19:36Foxtrot, I think, is where most Genesis fans agree that

0:19:36 > 0:19:41that's where they really broke the roof and went to another dimension.

0:19:41 > 0:19:43It's one of those things where you get popular

0:19:43 > 0:19:46and then by the time, you know, you never really get it,

0:19:46 > 0:19:48you're sort of, "Oh, my God, there's all that."

0:19:48 > 0:19:51And you get to that level and think, "Oh, my God, there's all that."

0:19:51 > 0:19:55So, we didn't realise until we came to New York, probably, just how

0:19:55 > 0:20:00VAST America was and how much there was to do.

0:20:10 > 0:20:13American rock in the '70s was very, very American,

0:20:13 > 0:20:17and the British rock that they liked was working with American DNA,

0:20:17 > 0:20:20so they liked The Stones because it was blues.

0:20:20 > 0:20:23So you had your, you know, your Bob Seger and your Lynyrd Skynyrd

0:20:23 > 0:20:26and then you had your art rock, your Iggy and Stooges

0:20:26 > 0:20:28and Velvet Underground.

0:20:28 > 0:20:30And, in a way, it was a different language.

0:20:30 > 0:20:35It was quite a challenge, you know, we were not downhearted by this.

0:20:35 > 0:20:38You know, we may be big over here,

0:20:38 > 0:20:40but over here you don't mean anything.

0:20:40 > 0:20:41This was America, you know,

0:20:41 > 0:20:44this was the America that we'd all heard about and read about.

0:20:44 > 0:20:47Just to stay in a Holiday Inn we thought,

0:20:47 > 0:20:51"This is the Holiday Inn!" You know, "This is a Holiday Inn!"

0:20:51 > 0:20:54Because they're famous rock'n'roll hotels,

0:20:54 > 0:20:56you know, people get banned from these.

0:20:56 > 0:20:58So it was all experience.

0:20:58 > 0:21:00And I can't remember ever feeling

0:21:00 > 0:21:03jaded by it or, like, depressed by it.

0:21:03 > 0:21:06It was like we were touring America, that's what you wanted to do.

0:21:26 > 0:21:29The initial tour which I was responsible for, 18 cities,

0:21:29 > 0:21:31they were totally unknown.

0:21:31 > 0:21:35I essentially did something that I never did before,

0:21:35 > 0:21:40for Genesis I had to lie.

0:21:40 > 0:21:43Everybody in your city knows about Genesis because of imports,

0:21:43 > 0:21:45the thousands are coming in daily,

0:21:45 > 0:21:47and universally loved it, ah,

0:21:47 > 0:21:50it's underground, you can't see it.

0:21:50 > 0:21:53I can see it, but you can't. But don't worry, they'll come.

0:21:55 > 0:22:01The first time I saw them, I noticed that the audience seemed to

0:22:01 > 0:22:07be elevated, they were lifted out of the mundane for a moment.

0:22:07 > 0:22:09I saw that.

0:22:09 > 0:22:14It was like a religious service, it was very powerful, very palpable.

0:22:14 > 0:22:16I was moved along with the audience.

0:22:16 > 0:22:20Early Genesis followers, early Genesis listeners,

0:22:20 > 0:22:25almost embraced them as, not a cult,

0:22:25 > 0:22:31but some kind of emotional religious openness to freedom, because

0:22:31 > 0:22:36music still does, but especially back then, it spoke to you.

0:22:36 > 0:22:38It touched a part of you.

0:22:38 > 0:22:40Particularly with Supper's Ready, which is

0:22:40 > 0:22:43the 23-and-a-half-minute anthem, which was then side two,

0:22:43 > 0:22:47which, I think, stands as the definitive Genesis work of art.

0:22:47 > 0:22:49I can say no less.

0:22:49 > 0:22:51Yeah, there is this sort of spiritual yearning

0:22:51 > 0:22:55going on through everything that I do, and with Supper's Ready

0:22:55 > 0:23:01there was a powerful mood in the audience sometimes that

0:23:01 > 0:23:08you just could harness and we could convert very cynical people!

0:23:09 > 0:23:13# Walking across a sitting room

0:23:13 > 0:23:17# I turn the television off

0:23:17 > 0:23:20# Sitting beside you

0:23:20 > 0:23:23# I look into your eyes... #

0:23:23 > 0:23:27The opening part was a wonderful Tony Banks' guitar piece.

0:23:27 > 0:23:30And because he doesn't play guitar very much he chose a shape

0:23:30 > 0:23:32I would never have chosen, because

0:23:32 > 0:23:34it's just a weird...

0:23:34 > 0:23:36finger movement.

0:23:39 > 0:23:42A guitarist would never play that, because you weren't a guitarist...

0:23:42 > 0:23:44- I played it... - You never were a guitarist,

0:23:44 > 0:23:46get that straight. You played sort of, you know...

0:23:46 > 0:23:49That first two or three minutes of it was just

0:23:49 > 0:23:51a chord sequence I wrote, but I knew it was going to have

0:23:51 > 0:23:53a melody on it, I wasn't worried about that.

0:23:53 > 0:23:56I think when we first started writing we were...

0:23:56 > 0:23:59- This is going... - Knew it was going to get fucked up...

0:23:59 > 0:24:00LAUGHTER

0:24:02 > 0:24:05Tony was never short of a solo or whatever,

0:24:05 > 0:24:10and I had always come in and start wanting to put vocal things.

0:24:10 > 0:24:14So it was, sort of, really decorating around what he did.

0:24:14 > 0:24:17And, you know, I think we had a good partnership.

0:24:17 > 0:24:19# Lord of Lords

0:24:19 > 0:24:21# King of Kings

0:24:21 > 0:24:23# Has returned

0:24:23 > 0:24:25# To lead his children home

0:24:25 > 0:24:33# To take them to the new Jerusalem... #

0:24:33 > 0:24:39When I sang "the new Jerusalem", I was absolutely singing from my gut

0:24:39 > 0:24:41and I think people could feel that.

0:24:42 > 0:24:48Whether it was a sort of spiritual goal destination, it's a...

0:24:48 > 0:24:50powerful word.

0:24:50 > 0:24:54And then you have Blake's Jerusalem

0:24:54 > 0:24:56and that history as well.

0:24:56 > 0:25:00So there was all of that washed into it.

0:25:03 > 0:25:06I think when we got it right, we had something that none of us

0:25:06 > 0:25:09could do on our own.

0:25:09 > 0:25:13And there were different musical histories, you know,

0:25:13 > 0:25:16merging together in a powerful way.

0:25:22 > 0:25:25# I know what I Like

0:25:26 > 0:25:31# And I like what I know

0:25:32 > 0:25:38# Getting better in your wardrobe... #

0:25:38 > 0:25:41For me, when Genesis actually found their feet was

0:25:41 > 0:25:43when the tunes started to become a little bit more robust.

0:25:43 > 0:25:46I mean, you can hear in Selling England By The Pound,

0:25:46 > 0:25:49I Know What I Like, that sounds like a good pop song.

0:25:49 > 0:25:51The structures are still proggy,

0:25:51 > 0:25:54they're still slightly overblown and long and mad, in a sense,

0:25:54 > 0:25:57but the production is sharper, that you...

0:25:57 > 0:26:01They needed to make themselves slightly more palatable

0:26:01 > 0:26:04to the layman rather than the prog fan and it worked.

0:26:12 > 0:26:14Peter had this idea and he was

0:26:14 > 0:26:17quite dogmatic that he wanted to do this idea,

0:26:17 > 0:26:19and we thought, "Well, you know, OK."

0:26:19 > 0:26:22But it meant him writing pretty much all the lyrics as well.

0:26:22 > 0:26:26You know, if you really want to define a world you have to

0:26:26 > 0:26:29let one person paint it.

0:26:29 > 0:26:33There weren't many novels created by committee.

0:26:33 > 0:26:37The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway was a complex beast in every way.

0:26:37 > 0:26:40It pretty much broke up the band in terms of Gabriel leaving.

0:26:40 > 0:26:43He said there were autobiographical elements in there,

0:26:43 > 0:26:48but then again there were bits of dreams and bits of surrealism.

0:26:48 > 0:26:53We all were in thrall to bands who could create a weirdness,

0:26:53 > 0:26:55an almost Monty Python-like

0:26:55 > 0:26:58side to music at that point.

0:26:58 > 0:27:02I remember thinking that the two were almost together at that

0:27:02 > 0:27:05point in late '60s, early '70s Britain.

0:27:08 > 0:27:11It's the one time Peter did all the words himself, bar sort of one song.

0:27:11 > 0:27:14Maybe it had to be that way, I think, actually.

0:27:14 > 0:27:18You couldn't have sort of shared the words in the same way, in my mind.

0:27:18 > 0:27:21I'm sure Banks disagrees but I think you probably couldn't have done.

0:27:21 > 0:27:25You know, I think the prime venom was between Tony and I.

0:27:25 > 0:27:27It's a funny period for me.

0:27:27 > 0:27:29The Lamb was my least favourite period during the whole

0:27:29 > 0:27:32of the time with the group, basically because - mainly

0:27:32 > 0:27:34because there were problems with Peter, I think, you know?

0:27:34 > 0:27:37You know, because we'd obviously been very close up to that point

0:27:37 > 0:27:40and, sort of, things were going a bit wrong and all the rest of it.

0:27:40 > 0:27:43He just didn't like me getting away with too much, you know,

0:27:43 > 0:27:45or getting into a controlling position.

0:27:45 > 0:27:51So there was, I think, wanting to keep check on my power as well.

0:27:51 > 0:27:53I wasn't really that excited by the story,

0:27:53 > 0:27:55I have to be honest about it, I never have been.

0:27:55 > 0:27:59And that kind of was what the whole thing was hanging on.

0:27:59 > 0:28:00MUSIC: In The Cage

0:28:00 > 0:28:04# I got sunshine in my stomach

0:28:04 > 0:28:10# Like I just rocked my baby to sleep... #

0:28:10 > 0:28:13Peter was, you know, he was flashing back and forth.

0:28:13 > 0:28:19You know, his birth of his daughter was fairly traumatic.

0:28:19 > 0:28:22So, from his point of view the writing was very slow.

0:28:22 > 0:28:25The problems with my daughter's birth

0:28:25 > 0:28:28and the fact she was in an incubator for a good amount of time that

0:28:28 > 0:28:33was absolutely number one for me, there was nothing more important.

0:28:33 > 0:28:38And there was very little tolerance and understanding for that.

0:28:44 > 0:28:47Meanwhile, the album was being delayed and delayed

0:28:47 > 0:28:49and delayed and then the end result being, of course, that

0:28:49 > 0:28:52the day the album came out was the first show we did on the tour.

0:28:57 > 0:28:59The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, I think,

0:28:59 > 0:29:01was a massively brave album

0:29:01 > 0:29:04to make. Hugely ambitious, you know,

0:29:04 > 0:29:06you can't fault a band for being ambitious.

0:29:06 > 0:29:10Prime example of what not to do is to go on tour with a new album

0:29:10 > 0:29:14not released and play the entire double album live.

0:29:14 > 0:29:18Now, that was a risk, bearing in mind this was a time

0:29:18 > 0:29:21they needed to be steadily building their American audience,

0:29:21 > 0:29:25they decide to produce this out-of-left-field concept album.

0:29:25 > 0:29:27MUSIC: The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway

0:29:27 > 0:29:31# And the lamb lies down

0:29:32 > 0:29:36# On Broadway... #

0:29:36 > 0:29:38To go from Selling England By The Pound,

0:29:38 > 0:29:41to go from this English rural atmosphere to, you know, the mean

0:29:41 > 0:29:44streets of New York I think it's an incredibly brave album to make.

0:29:44 > 0:29:48It's an album I will defend to the hilt.

0:29:48 > 0:29:50It is a sort of Pilgrim's Progress

0:29:50 > 0:29:53set on the streets of New York for me.

0:29:53 > 0:29:56He was a punk character in a way, Rael.

0:29:56 > 0:30:02It's a journey through which he learns to destroy oneself,

0:30:02 > 0:30:05to open up the space for another.

0:30:09 > 0:30:12The Lamb was probably slightly ahead of its time.

0:30:12 > 0:30:16They did it and, from what I know,

0:30:16 > 0:30:19the slides that they used on the back projector failed regularly.

0:30:19 > 0:30:22They never quite got it right, and yet they carried on doggedly -

0:30:22 > 0:30:24this will work.

0:30:24 > 0:30:27And although it was a troublesome child, you know,

0:30:27 > 0:30:31with the visual side, you know, I mean, a few nights it actually

0:30:31 > 0:30:34worked properly, but most nights it didn't.

0:30:34 > 0:30:36# ..On Broadway

0:30:38 > 0:30:41# They say there's always magic in the air

0:30:41 > 0:30:44# On Broadway... #

0:30:55 > 0:30:57What I remember about The Lamb

0:30:57 > 0:31:00was smoking a little joint before I went on,

0:31:00 > 0:31:06and putting headphones on, and playing in my own little world!

0:31:07 > 0:31:12And I just had a great time every night, you know?

0:31:12 > 0:31:13It was great to play.

0:31:13 > 0:31:19# Making a crust I cannot move in... #

0:31:19 > 0:31:27'The Lamb album was the best we'd ever been on a record.'

0:31:28 > 0:31:30INSTRUMENTS KICK IN

0:31:38 > 0:31:42It was such a multimedia event The Lamb,

0:31:42 > 0:31:46the screens, Pete's costumes, the music.

0:31:46 > 0:31:50It was just an assault on the senses, I think.

0:32:00 > 0:32:03The problem with The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway was that

0:32:03 > 0:32:06when it was done live it was being performed, you know,

0:32:06 > 0:32:08across North America to audiences that had never heard it,

0:32:08 > 0:32:12that are sitting there going, "The Knife?" And going, "What is this?

0:32:12 > 0:32:16"And why is Peter in a huge bobbly suit, and what on earth is going on?"

0:32:17 > 0:32:20There was with the Slipperman outfit,

0:32:20 > 0:32:25which had this sort of big head, I couldn't hold the mic properly,

0:32:25 > 0:32:29and they didn't have these little radio mics then,

0:32:29 > 0:32:32so you couldn't hear a word I was singing

0:32:32 > 0:32:33when I was in that.

0:32:33 > 0:32:36# His skin's all covered in slimy lumps... #

0:32:36 > 0:32:39But in a way, you know, whenever sort of Spinal Tap

0:32:39 > 0:32:41is on or something and you see these moments you think,

0:32:41 > 0:32:43"I've been in a band like that!"

0:32:43 > 0:32:46Where the pod didn't open, you know?

0:32:46 > 0:32:48That's Genesis!

0:32:48 > 0:32:50# ..My grip must be flipping

0:32:50 > 0:32:52# Cos his handshake keeps slipping... #

0:32:52 > 0:32:54It was becoming increasingly difficult,

0:32:54 > 0:32:56the way the band was perceived was getting difficult,

0:32:56 > 0:32:58it was seen very much as Peter and the band, you know,

0:32:58 > 0:33:01and that was kind of difficult for all the rest of us because...

0:33:01 > 0:33:03I think it was creating some jealousies.

0:33:03 > 0:33:06Yeah, of course it was, you know, we were only in our early 20s

0:33:06 > 0:33:08and it was a difficult time that, you know?

0:33:08 > 0:33:11And certainly people would come in the dressing room...

0:33:11 > 0:33:14In America I remember the record company guys, the local guys and

0:33:14 > 0:33:18the promoters would come and say, "Yay, Pete, great show, great show,

0:33:18 > 0:33:23"when you put that mask on they loved it, the kids loved it!"

0:33:23 > 0:33:26You know, I'm exaggerating, but it would be that kind of thing.

0:33:26 > 0:33:30And it would be like "Hello, you know, it's a band, you know?"

0:33:30 > 0:33:34And the music was first.

0:33:34 > 0:33:36It was a very difficult time,

0:33:36 > 0:33:41but I still feel that along with Supper's Ready it's

0:33:41 > 0:33:44one of the things that I feel best about from my time with Genesis.

0:33:44 > 0:33:49We were in a hotel in Cleveland and Peter came to my room

0:33:49 > 0:33:53and said, "Look, I can't do this any more, I'm at the end of this...

0:33:53 > 0:33:55"I'm leaving at the end of the tour."

0:33:55 > 0:33:58MUSIC: The Carpet Crawlers

0:33:58 > 0:34:03# There's only one direction in the faces that I see

0:34:04 > 0:34:05# It's upward... #

0:34:05 > 0:34:08We had, I remember, a very long conversation actually about it,

0:34:08 > 0:34:11but I knew that he was not - he was not going to come back,

0:34:11 > 0:34:13it was as simple as that really.

0:34:13 > 0:34:15But we talked anyhow, really.

0:34:15 > 0:34:18"This is the band, man!" You know? "What are you doing?"

0:34:18 > 0:34:20"This is..."

0:34:20 > 0:34:24It's... It felt a little bit cheated

0:34:24 > 0:34:28and let down by the fact that someone's going to leave.

0:34:28 > 0:34:31For him one of the reasons, apart from family reasons

0:34:31 > 0:34:34and everything else, is something that I'm sure he'd felt he'd

0:34:34 > 0:34:38sort of got to a point that he'd, sort of, moved on really.

0:34:38 > 0:34:42And then we kept it very quiet right to the end of the tour.

0:34:42 > 0:34:44We didn't really make any announcements

0:34:44 > 0:34:46until the end of the tour.

0:34:46 > 0:34:50I felt desperate to tell the audience that I was going,

0:34:50 > 0:34:56and it felt like I was betraying the people who were coming,

0:34:56 > 0:35:00who were paying to see us, that I couldn't be myself

0:35:00 > 0:35:04and be real and be honest and tell them what I was feeling.

0:35:04 > 0:35:08We all got quite emotional at the last show.

0:35:08 > 0:35:10It was like talking about someone dying, I suppose,

0:35:10 > 0:35:12but, I mean, no-one had prepared themselves for this.

0:35:12 > 0:35:14MUSIC: The Musical Box

0:35:14 > 0:35:17# I've been waiting here for so long

0:35:19 > 0:35:23# And all this time has passed me by

0:35:26 > 0:35:30# It doesn't seem to matter now... #

0:35:31 > 0:35:34I remember thinking, "Oh, my God, what are we going to do?"

0:35:45 > 0:35:49The British press, certainly, sort of started to write Genesis's

0:35:49 > 0:35:50obituary when Peter left.

0:35:50 > 0:35:53We knew that we were going to carry on,

0:35:53 > 0:35:56so I said, "Let's just do the whole thing instrumentally, you know?"

0:35:56 > 0:35:59And it was like a cartoon, it was like -

0:35:59 > 0:36:01"Well, let's just do the whole thing instrumentally."

0:36:01 > 0:36:03"Shut up!"

0:36:03 > 0:36:06You know? "Are you mad, are you crazy?

0:36:06 > 0:36:10"We write songs, they need to be sung. Now, just shut up!"

0:36:10 > 0:36:13You know, that's the way I felt it was.

0:36:13 > 0:36:15"Sorry, just a suggestion."

0:36:21 > 0:36:25We auditioned quite a few singers.

0:36:26 > 0:36:31And most of the time Phil would sing the part to show them what they

0:36:31 > 0:36:36were singing and then they'd sing it and it wouldn't be as good as Phil.

0:36:36 > 0:36:38I didn't want to not be the drummer.

0:36:38 > 0:36:41You know, this is what I did, this is my territory!

0:36:41 > 0:36:44"I don't want to go, don't push me out there, sir,

0:36:44 > 0:36:46"please don't take me out there, don't send me

0:36:46 > 0:36:48"out there with a microphone." I didn't want to do that.

0:36:48 > 0:36:50You know, it was a question really

0:36:50 > 0:36:52whether he wanted to do it more than anything else.

0:36:52 > 0:36:54You know, we did, as far as I can remember,

0:36:54 > 0:36:55we did revisit some of the tapes

0:36:55 > 0:36:58and thought, "Is there really nobody that we've heard?"

0:36:58 > 0:37:00You know, and we decided that there wasn't.

0:37:00 > 0:37:01MUSIC: A Trick Of The Tail

0:37:01 > 0:37:04# Everyone looks so strange to him

0:37:04 > 0:37:07# They've got no horns and they've got no tail

0:37:07 > 0:37:11# They don't even know of our existence

0:37:11 > 0:37:15# Am I wrong to believe in a city of gold

0:37:15 > 0:37:19# That lies in the deep distance he cried

0:37:19 > 0:37:22# And wept as they led him away to a cage... #

0:37:22 > 0:37:24I think the big question mark was

0:37:24 > 0:37:28whether he could cut it on the more rock,

0:37:28 > 0:37:31out and out rock stuff, whether his voice was big enough.

0:37:31 > 0:37:34I remember nothing but good vibes from the audience, you know.

0:37:34 > 0:37:38They wanted this to work. They didn't compare with me with Pete.

0:37:38 > 0:37:41I was one of the guys in the band coming forward.

0:37:41 > 0:37:42And I'd been there all along.

0:37:59 > 0:38:02I think I had more confidence in the band being able to be

0:38:02 > 0:38:05successful than they did initially.

0:38:05 > 0:38:07JOURNALIST: Last May the lead vocalist

0:38:07 > 0:38:09of the British progressive rock group,

0:38:09 > 0:38:11Genesis, left the group.

0:38:11 > 0:38:14Now, when this happens a group either breaks up or dies a very slow death.

0:38:14 > 0:38:17But because of the versatility of each individual at Genesis

0:38:17 > 0:38:18they're doing very well.

0:38:18 > 0:38:21As a matter of fact, they seem to be doing better than ever before.

0:38:21 > 0:38:24I believe it was your quote, I am going to not give it verbatim,

0:38:24 > 0:38:27that it was like a very big load off everybody

0:38:27 > 0:38:29when he finally did leave. Is that true?

0:38:30 > 0:38:32Yeah. I mean...

0:38:32 > 0:38:35now it's paying off in a way.

0:38:35 > 0:38:37One feels better about it,

0:38:37 > 0:38:39because you've come out from an underdog situation.

0:38:39 > 0:38:44The sad thing is that when someone leaves, like Anthony and Peter,

0:38:44 > 0:38:47there's a sadness because, you know, you'll never be as close again.

0:38:47 > 0:38:48You know, you stay in touch and you see,

0:38:48 > 0:38:52but you lose that bond of sharing things that I've had with Tony

0:38:52 > 0:38:56and Phil for the last, way too many years.

0:38:58 > 0:39:02# Sail away, away

0:39:04 > 0:39:05# Ripples... #

0:39:05 > 0:39:07A lot of people compliment me on A Trick Of The Tail

0:39:07 > 0:39:10when I wasn't actually there, so it's...

0:39:10 > 0:39:11- LAUGHTER - Reflected glory.- Yeah.

0:39:11 > 0:39:13One of your finest moments.

0:39:13 > 0:39:16The band were much more successful without me than they were with me.

0:39:19 > 0:39:25# ..Sail away, away... #

0:39:32 > 0:39:33After Pete left,

0:39:33 > 0:39:37two years later I was basically doing the same thing myself.

0:39:37 > 0:39:40I feel uncomfortable talking about it even now.

0:39:40 > 0:39:42I feel, you know, if I reveal too much

0:39:42 > 0:39:43it's a man ratting on the regiment.

0:39:43 > 0:39:46I'm very grateful to the regiment for everything it gave me.

0:39:51 > 0:39:54- MIKE:- He's a fantastic lead guitarist.

0:39:54 > 0:39:55You hear one of those songs

0:39:55 > 0:39:58and it'll be absolutely unique, you know?

0:39:58 > 0:40:00- STEVE:- In many ways it was such a claustrophobic experience.

0:40:00 > 0:40:03Harder and harder to find relevant things for the guitar to do,

0:40:03 > 0:40:07so, over time, I started to amass solo material.

0:40:08 > 0:40:12God forgive me, guys, but I just thought it's the only way to

0:40:12 > 0:40:16go to get ideas across is to just negotiate with myself in the end.

0:40:16 > 0:40:19But there you are, that's the way bands are.

0:40:19 > 0:40:21I think there was a certain amount of, you know,

0:40:21 > 0:40:23who shouted the loudest and got the most grumpy

0:40:23 > 0:40:26if their bit wasn't used, you know, which would be me.

0:40:26 > 0:40:27Yeah, well, I mean I did probably

0:40:27 > 0:40:29get more on than other people, you know, and that's...

0:40:29 > 0:40:32So, you've either got me to blame or to love for the music.

0:40:32 > 0:40:35We then thought about getting someone else in,

0:40:35 > 0:40:37but I think we felt that the three of us had gone...

0:40:37 > 0:40:40we were so close at that point in time, such a good working unit,

0:40:40 > 0:40:43that to bring a new person in - I mean it could have worked,

0:40:43 > 0:40:48you know, but it wasn't quite so... It wasn't imperative.

0:40:48 > 0:40:56# You, you have your own special way

0:40:58 > 0:41:02# Of holding my hand, keep it way above the water

0:41:02 > 0:41:03# Don't ever let go... #

0:41:03 > 0:41:07By this point, the music business had changed a great deal, which we

0:41:07 > 0:41:10hadn't sort of really been aware of, still most of it escaped us because

0:41:10 > 0:41:12we were out in America most of this time, but punk music

0:41:12 > 0:41:15had come in and a lot of the old bands seemed to have disappeared.

0:41:15 > 0:41:18If Genesis were all of a sudden going to start sounding

0:41:18 > 0:41:23like The Jam or Johnny Rotten I just don't think it would have worked!

0:41:23 > 0:41:26MUSIC: Anarchy In The UK by the Sex Pistols

0:41:26 > 0:41:27# Anarchy for the UK

0:41:27 > 0:41:30# It's coming sometime maybe... #

0:41:30 > 0:41:33I mean, the sound of the Sex Pistols, I thought

0:41:33 > 0:41:39they had a fantastic sound, it just sounded so...legitimate.

0:41:44 > 0:41:48So I kind of liked it, and then I realised that we were the enemy,

0:41:48 > 0:41:52you know, we were the people that they were trying to get rid of.

0:41:56 > 0:41:58We sort of seemed to go through it regardless.

0:41:58 > 0:42:00In fact, we were lucky in a sense

0:42:00 > 0:42:02that all the opposition had kind of been killed off.

0:42:02 > 0:42:05After Peter left, of course, Phil came into his own

0:42:05 > 0:42:06and the hits started coming.

0:42:06 > 0:42:11Somehow, almost by chance, Genesis redefined their sound,

0:42:11 > 0:42:17went for more compressed, shorter numbers, a less florid sound

0:42:17 > 0:42:21and, sort of, almost by chance started to have hit singles.

0:42:21 > 0:42:23MUSIC: Follow You Follow Me

0:42:23 > 0:42:25We were lucky with And Then There Were Three,

0:42:25 > 0:42:29which proved to be, you know, our most successful album at the time.

0:42:29 > 0:42:31Follow You Follow Me actually being a single hit,

0:42:31 > 0:42:34first hit we really had, you know?

0:42:34 > 0:42:37# Stay with me

0:42:37 > 0:42:39# My love... #

0:42:39 > 0:42:40Follow You Follow Me

0:42:40 > 0:42:43must have just been an interesting exercise for the band.

0:42:43 > 0:42:45You know, they probably set out and thought,

0:42:45 > 0:42:48"Right, how do we write a hit?" And suddenly, a band that was probably

0:42:48 > 0:42:52a predominantly male chin-stroking audience was being played

0:42:52 > 0:42:55at the, you know, the slow dance at the end of the Friday-night disco.

0:42:55 > 0:42:59Actually, Mike was the first one to really write the love lyric,

0:42:59 > 0:43:02which was Follow You Follow Me which doubled our audience overnight,

0:43:02 > 0:43:04suddenly we were more female-friendly.

0:43:04 > 0:43:06# ..Alone with you

0:43:06 > 0:43:08# I will follow you

0:43:08 > 0:43:11# Will you follow me

0:43:11 > 0:43:13# All the days and nights

0:43:13 > 0:43:16# That we know will be?

0:43:16 > 0:43:18# I will stay with you

0:43:18 > 0:43:21# Will you stay with me?

0:43:21 > 0:43:23# Just one single tear

0:43:23 > 0:43:26# In each passing year... #

0:43:26 > 0:43:27I had never met Chester.

0:43:27 > 0:43:29You know, I had seen him play with Weather Report.

0:43:29 > 0:43:32And there was a track that I really liked,

0:43:32 > 0:43:36when he played with Zappa, the Live At The Roxy album.

0:43:36 > 0:43:41And him and another drummer, I just liked his playing on this one track.

0:43:41 > 0:43:44So I called him and I said, "Do you want to join the band?"

0:43:44 > 0:43:45He said, "Well, yeah."

0:43:45 > 0:43:47And then I was saying, "Man, I'm going

0:43:47 > 0:43:51"over to do rehearsals with this band Genesis," and he gets this worried

0:43:51 > 0:43:52look on his face, says,

0:43:52 > 0:43:54"Man, are you going to have to wear costumes?"

0:43:54 > 0:43:57And I thought, "Oh-oh, what am I getting into here?!"

0:44:08 > 0:44:12What we were missing in the visual department with Peter not

0:44:12 > 0:44:16being there and his costumes, we suddenly had another facet,

0:44:16 > 0:44:21which was two drummers together, one drummer, another drum...

0:44:21 > 0:44:24You know, it was mixing it up a bit.

0:44:24 > 0:44:28Well, I think we traded off quite a lot, actually.

0:44:28 > 0:44:30I got a bit more of, I think,

0:44:30 > 0:44:33maybe the sort of his edge in my own playing.

0:44:33 > 0:44:37And I like to think he got a little funkier over the years, you know?

0:44:42 > 0:44:45CHEERING

0:44:45 > 0:44:48When I saw that Chester was going to join I thought, "That's going

0:44:48 > 0:44:50"to be a pretty nice band to be in."

0:44:55 > 0:44:56Daryl can play anything, you know,

0:44:56 > 0:44:59he's an incredibly versatile musician, a brilliant musician.

0:44:59 > 0:45:01We'll go back into the G as a sort of...

0:45:01 > 0:45:03We have to get the end of Firth Of Fifth, I mean,

0:45:03 > 0:45:06are we going to leave that till another point?

0:45:06 > 0:45:07So he has to sort of fit into

0:45:07 > 0:45:09a certain style for the piece, you know?

0:45:09 > 0:45:12And when we wrote Firth Of Fifth, you know, and Steve, obviously,

0:45:12 > 0:45:15played a guitar solo on that, he was quite a, you know, quite a

0:45:15 > 0:45:18stiff player, particularly in those days, a certain kind of effect.

0:45:18 > 0:45:20I mean, it's very much a melodic line

0:45:20 > 0:45:22you're playing with Firth Of Fifth,

0:45:22 > 0:45:25the main guitar solo and then you improvise a little bit around it.

0:45:25 > 0:45:27MUSIC: Firth Of Fifth

0:45:45 > 0:45:48It turned into a very strong moment, a stronger moment than

0:45:48 > 0:45:51we probably ever thought it was going to be when we first did it.

0:45:51 > 0:45:54And I thought it would never work on a guitar, but it just sounded great.

0:45:54 > 0:45:58To me, Genesis is a style already, that it's not country,

0:45:58 > 0:46:02it's not rock, it's not jazz, you know, it's Genesis.

0:46:02 > 0:46:05MUSIC: Deep In The Motherlode

0:46:05 > 0:46:07# All along the dusty trail

0:46:10 > 0:46:13# 17 years not over a day

0:46:14 > 0:46:17# Like children in the wild

0:46:17 > 0:46:20# Your mother's milk still wet on your face... #

0:46:20 > 0:46:23ANNOUNCER: The road crew who had travelled through the night start to

0:46:23 > 0:46:27unload five tonnes of equipment from three giant trucks.

0:46:27 > 0:46:30Sound and lighting rigs are taken into the theatre in preparation

0:46:30 > 0:46:32for the evening concert.

0:46:32 > 0:46:35CROWD CHEERING

0:46:50 > 0:46:53- I've come here so early as to meet the band.- Get the autographs.

0:46:53 > 0:46:54Yeah, get the autographs.

0:46:54 > 0:46:57- Got quite a few. - You can tell who the real fans are.

0:47:00 > 0:47:01OK, cheers.

0:47:01 > 0:47:05Yeah, I think Genesis cover a wide range of musical taste.

0:47:05 > 0:47:07The earlier material as well.

0:47:07 > 0:47:10Yeah, which will appeal to far more people than, say,

0:47:10 > 0:47:11just heavy metal bands.

0:47:11 > 0:47:14I mean, Genesis appeals to basically everyone.

0:47:14 > 0:47:15JOURNALIST: What about your mates?

0:47:15 > 0:47:18I get a lot of slagging off because of Genesis,

0:47:18 > 0:47:19they're not a vogue band to like.

0:47:19 > 0:47:22I have no idea what it's all about when people say -

0:47:22 > 0:47:25"I listen to Genesis but don't tell anyone."

0:47:25 > 0:47:28What is it all about? I mean, I really don't know.

0:47:28 > 0:47:34It's melodic, it's inoffensive, it's just good music.

0:47:34 > 0:47:37I don't know why there's a stigma about Genesis.

0:47:37 > 0:47:41But I am happy to say that, "I'm out, I'm out, I'm proud.

0:47:41 > 0:47:44"I'm not afraid if someone's..."

0:47:44 > 0:47:47I mean, I haven't had to sit my family down over

0:47:47 > 0:47:48Sunday lunch and say,

0:47:48 > 0:47:51"I've something to tell you all - I'm a Genesis fan."

0:47:51 > 0:47:52But I don't mind being -

0:47:52 > 0:47:55I don't mind the brickbats that come with it.

0:47:55 > 0:47:57It's a bit a mystery, I don't know what the problem is.

0:47:57 > 0:48:01It's an entrenched view in British rock appreciation that

0:48:01 > 0:48:05when the hits start coming the band's gone off the boil.

0:48:11 > 0:48:14# All I need is a TV show

0:48:14 > 0:48:17# That and the radio

0:48:17 > 0:48:20# Down on my luck again

0:48:20 > 0:48:23# Down on my luck again

0:48:23 > 0:48:25# I can show you

0:48:25 > 0:48:27# I can show you

0:48:27 > 0:48:31# Some of the people in my life

0:48:31 > 0:48:34# I can show you I can show you

0:48:34 > 0:48:38# Some of the people in my life

0:48:38 > 0:48:41# It's driving me mad

0:48:41 > 0:48:44# Just another way of passing the day

0:48:49 > 0:48:54# I, I get so lonely when she's not there... #

0:48:54 > 0:48:57The post-Gabriel albums, certainly the first three or

0:48:57 > 0:48:59four, are perhaps better than they're given credit for.

0:48:59 > 0:49:03And then by the time of Duke they were getting - starting to

0:49:03 > 0:49:07get the next level of sound, which was more stadium-friendly.

0:49:07 > 0:49:10When we did Duke, which is probably my favourite album in many ways,

0:49:10 > 0:49:13my personal favourite track on the album, and also one that

0:49:13 > 0:49:16I suppose is shorter, although it's quite long, is Duchess, which sort

0:49:16 > 0:49:19of starts in a very sort of loose kind of way and then builds

0:49:19 > 0:49:22to a very concise pop song and then goes meandering again at the end.

0:49:22 > 0:49:25It's one of my favourite tracks we ever did.

0:49:25 > 0:49:27# Times were good

0:49:27 > 0:49:32# She never thought about the future

0:49:32 > 0:49:35# She just did what she would

0:49:35 > 0:49:39# Oh, but she really cared

0:49:39 > 0:49:43# About her music

0:49:43 > 0:49:46# It all seemed so important then... #

0:49:50 > 0:49:54When my marriage broke up I had an empty house.

0:49:54 > 0:49:58I just used to go down the pub, and I kind of lived there.

0:49:58 > 0:50:00It became my social life.

0:50:00 > 0:50:03And I would go home and I'd start thrashing around on a piano

0:50:03 > 0:50:06and start writing songs, some of..

0:50:06 > 0:50:09you know, some of them were pretty sad.

0:50:09 > 0:50:10# Oh, I cry a bit

0:50:10 > 0:50:13# I don't sleep too good

0:50:13 > 0:50:15# But I'm fine... #

0:50:15 > 0:50:18Please Don't Ask was probably the most personal song

0:50:18 > 0:50:21I'd ever written, and this was me really...

0:50:23 > 0:50:25..baring my soul, if you like.

0:50:28 > 0:50:31# ..When can I touch you

0:50:31 > 0:50:33# Again and again... #

0:50:33 > 0:50:35And very, very personal.

0:50:35 > 0:50:39And, you know, it was strange, I found myself thinking,

0:50:39 > 0:50:44"What am I doing singing this song on a Genesis record, this is..."

0:50:44 > 0:50:49Because I know the people that buy Genesis's record aren't really...

0:50:49 > 0:50:52they're not going to be touched by this.

0:50:52 > 0:50:55But I don't think he'd written a really particularly good lyric

0:50:55 > 0:50:57until he found his voice, which was really after, you know,

0:50:57 > 0:51:00obviously, his marriage break-up and everything

0:51:00 > 0:51:02and he had time on his own, he started writing these songs.

0:51:02 > 0:51:05I played this stuff to Mike and Tony.

0:51:05 > 0:51:08I said, "This is what I've been doing, pick whatever you want."

0:51:08 > 0:51:11We really liked Please Don't Ask.

0:51:11 > 0:51:14He played that to us, a few others like that he played.

0:51:16 > 0:51:17And, at the time, if we'd said,

0:51:17 > 0:51:20"We want to do all of them," he would have said, "OK."

0:51:20 > 0:51:22That was kind of, how it was really,

0:51:22 > 0:51:24you know, everything went into the pot.

0:51:24 > 0:51:25A question of choosing one other song.

0:51:25 > 0:51:27Misunderstanding, we knew we were going to do,

0:51:27 > 0:51:29we'd heard that a lot, liked it very much.

0:51:32 > 0:51:35# There must be some misunderstanding

0:51:37 > 0:51:41# There must be some kind of mistake... #

0:51:43 > 0:51:46Now, one of the extraordinary and unique things about the band,

0:51:46 > 0:51:49and this is probably also why they've survived so long,

0:51:49 > 0:51:52is that all the members of the classic line-up have managed

0:51:52 > 0:51:55to follow solo careers and yet still work together.

0:52:00 > 0:52:03I think the thing that's always overlooked is what an amazing

0:52:03 > 0:52:05singer Gabriel was and is.

0:52:05 > 0:52:08His voice was always incredibly special.

0:52:08 > 0:52:09His first album,

0:52:09 > 0:52:12the first Peter Gabriel album was really interesting.

0:52:12 > 0:52:15There's, you know, suddenly a hit single - Solsbury Hill,

0:52:15 > 0:52:17you know, the last thing you would have imagined.

0:52:24 > 0:52:27# Climbing up on Solsbury Hill

0:52:27 > 0:52:31# I could see the city light

0:52:31 > 0:52:34# Wind was blowing Time stood still

0:52:34 > 0:52:38# Eagle flew out of the night... #

0:52:38 > 0:52:43Solsbury Hill is a song of absolute liberation. It's uplifting.

0:52:43 > 0:52:45It's almost like word paint in a way, it climbs up,

0:52:45 > 0:52:48the idea of the expanse that he's looking over

0:52:48 > 0:52:51and the potential of what the future could be.

0:52:51 > 0:52:55I think it's a masterpiece of elation, that record.

0:52:56 > 0:53:00# ..I just had to trust imagination

0:53:00 > 0:53:03# My heart going boom, boom, boom

0:53:03 > 0:53:05# "Son," he said

0:53:05 > 0:53:10# "Grab your things I've come to take you home." #

0:53:10 > 0:53:13MUSIC: The South Bank Show Theme by Julian Lloyd Webber

0:53:14 > 0:53:17Hello. Peter Gabriel made his name in the rock world in the early

0:53:17 > 0:53:21'70s as a singer-songwriter and often wildly-theatrical performer

0:53:21 > 0:53:23with the rock band Genesis.

0:53:23 > 0:53:24He left them in 1975,

0:53:24 > 0:53:26and since then he's built a new

0:53:26 > 0:53:30reputation as a thoughtful solo artist who takes immense

0:53:30 > 0:53:33care in writing and producing his own material.

0:53:33 > 0:53:36His highly acclaimed third album placed him at the forefront

0:53:36 > 0:53:38of one of the most significant recent developments in rock,

0:53:38 > 0:53:40the increasing use of synthesisers

0:53:40 > 0:53:42and sophisticated electronic technology.

0:53:42 > 0:53:44MUSIC: Games Without Frontiers

0:53:44 > 0:53:47# Hans plays with Lotte

0:53:47 > 0:53:49# Lotte plays with Jane

0:53:49 > 0:53:51# Jane plays with Willi... #

0:53:51 > 0:53:55Peter didn't have a band around the time of the third album

0:53:55 > 0:53:58and so I said, "Well, I'm doing nothing,"

0:53:58 > 0:54:04because I'd been through my great sorrow, so I volunteered my services

0:54:04 > 0:54:06as a drummer, and Peter said,

0:54:06 > 0:54:10"I don't want any cymbals, I don't want any cymbals on this."

0:54:10 > 0:54:13And for a drummer that was... You know, that was a big deal, you know?

0:54:13 > 0:54:16"Oh, hang on, well, what's this hand supposed to do?"

0:54:16 > 0:54:19So we set up the drums so that there was a drum instead

0:54:19 > 0:54:23of a cymbal in that particular position in case I had the urge.

0:54:23 > 0:54:25- LAUGHTER - You know, it was like...

0:54:27 > 0:54:33Peter Gabriel's album was a dream come true for a recording engineer,

0:54:33 > 0:54:36because we were doing, you know,

0:54:36 > 0:54:40so much sort of experimentation with sound.

0:54:40 > 0:54:42Just the wind in the pipe is quite nice.

0:54:42 > 0:54:45- You think?- Yeah.- 'It was just great fun, you know.'

0:54:47 > 0:54:49DRUMBEAT PLAYS

0:54:49 > 0:54:54So this is Intruder and it starts off with the drum pattern.

0:54:54 > 0:54:57I asked Phil to do a really simple pattern there,

0:54:57 > 0:55:01and it just sounded like the future of drums.

0:55:06 > 0:55:10I was so blown away that I wanted to strip everything

0:55:10 > 0:55:16back off the track and have this be the absolute centre of it.

0:55:19 > 0:55:20Mr Padgham...

0:55:22 > 0:55:26Because Hugh Padgham was the engineer,

0:55:26 > 0:55:30the man with the hands on, that's the reason why I befriended him

0:55:30 > 0:55:33and thought he'd be the man to make my first album.

0:55:33 > 0:55:36And I think all creative people, in the end, are just like dogs

0:55:36 > 0:55:39in the park, you know, you sniff something interesting

0:55:39 > 0:55:42and you try and jump on it. And, you know...

0:55:42 > 0:55:43Speak for yourself.

0:55:43 > 0:55:46We've always been like that I think, you know.

0:55:46 > 0:55:48- You can always tell where we've been sniffing.- Yeah.

0:55:48 > 0:55:50LAUGHTER

0:55:50 > 0:55:55At a very early stage I established a principle that the two,

0:55:55 > 0:55:57the solo careers

0:55:57 > 0:56:02and the Genesis career were always maintained as very separate things.

0:56:02 > 0:56:03We never mixed them.

0:56:03 > 0:56:06There was never a time when we said,

0:56:06 > 0:56:09"Oh, let's do a Phil Collins song on a Genesis show," or vice versa.

0:56:09 > 0:56:13We always kept the two things very separate.

0:56:13 > 0:56:16I think Phil went off to do this own thing

0:56:16 > 0:56:19because it was very clear that that career was there for him.

0:56:19 > 0:56:23He was probably the last of the band to make a solo album.

0:56:23 > 0:56:26I mean, actually, they had all gone off and done other things.

0:56:26 > 0:56:28He just went off and did it rather more publicly

0:56:28 > 0:56:30because he was a huge success at it.

0:56:32 > 0:56:37# I can feel it coming in the air tonight

0:56:38 > 0:56:40# Oh, Lord

0:56:41 > 0:56:47# And I've been waiting for this moment for all my life

0:56:47 > 0:56:50# Oh, Lord

0:56:52 > 0:56:56# Can you feel it coming in the air tonight... #

0:56:56 > 0:56:58I think it was probably a very good thing we didn't do it.

0:56:58 > 0:57:01If Genesis had done it, I think we'd have complicated it up.

0:57:01 > 0:57:03But, of course, that's its whole charm,

0:57:03 > 0:57:06it's what works about it, is the fact that it's so repetitive.

0:57:08 > 0:57:14# ..I can feel it coming in the air tonight

0:57:14 > 0:57:16# Oh, Lord... #

0:57:18 > 0:57:21I'm glad, you know, I'm glad we didn't use it because,

0:57:21 > 0:57:25obviously, I was left to my own devices on most of the material.

0:57:26 > 0:57:29It's down in history now that Tony Banks claims that

0:57:29 > 0:57:32I didn't play him In The Air Tonight, but I did.

0:57:32 > 0:57:34And he didn't play In The Air Tonight.

0:57:34 > 0:57:36It doesn't matter what anybody tells you.

0:57:36 > 0:57:39I don't remember the moment when I played In The Air Tonight.

0:57:39 > 0:57:42I just was very proud of it, so I don't understand why

0:57:42 > 0:57:45I would not have done, because at that point I hadn't

0:57:45 > 0:57:50made my record, so I didn't know how good or bad it was going to be.

0:57:50 > 0:57:52Phil Collins, when he started writing about the break-up

0:57:52 > 0:57:55of his marriage and these love songs, initially on his solo career,

0:57:55 > 0:57:58but there was obviously a cross-over between the songs he was writing

0:57:58 > 0:58:02for both parties, it did introduce an element of confessional.

0:58:02 > 0:58:05# How can I just let you walk away

0:58:05 > 0:58:09# Just let you leave without a trace... #

0:58:09 > 0:58:12I think what Collins did in terms of channelling those emotions

0:58:12 > 0:58:15in terms of what had happened in his personal life into his music,

0:58:15 > 0:58:19was something that the band had never done, as far as we were aware.

0:58:19 > 0:58:22He was very, very emotional, something,

0:58:22 > 0:58:26if I may say, that we British tend not to show emotion so much, do we?

0:58:26 > 0:58:28You know, the old stiff upper lip.

0:58:28 > 0:58:32In a way, he's the master of the romcom romance, isn't he?

0:58:32 > 0:58:34These are extremely emotional songs.

0:58:34 > 0:58:37All through the '80s, growing up, I thought of him

0:58:37 > 0:58:39as the guy playing the piano with the pot of paint on it,

0:58:39 > 0:58:44you know, the sort of, the heartbreaking plaintive ballads.

0:58:44 > 0:58:46# ..Now take a look at me now

0:58:48 > 0:58:51# Cos there's just an empty space

0:58:53 > 0:58:57# But to wait for you is all I can do

0:58:57 > 0:59:00# And that's what I've got to face

0:59:00 > 0:59:03# Take a good look at me now... #

0:59:05 > 0:59:07We are unique in the fact that I can't think of any other band

0:59:07 > 0:59:11who's done this solo/main band career

0:59:11 > 0:59:14and run it for many years afterwards, you know?

0:59:14 > 0:59:17We always felt that whatever we were doing is the main

0:59:17 > 0:59:19thing at the time, the band or solo.

0:59:19 > 0:59:22But it wasn't like, if you're doing that you can't do that, you know?

0:59:22 > 0:59:25And I'm sure it helped us keep going, actually, the variety

0:59:25 > 0:59:30of work and music was, I think, gave us a freshness as a main band.

0:59:39 > 0:59:41# Look up on the wall

0:59:43 > 0:59:45# There on the floor

0:59:47 > 0:59:49# Under the pillow

0:59:50 > 0:59:52# Behind the door... #

0:59:53 > 0:59:57I know people who picked up on us on, say, Abacab or something

0:59:57 > 1:00:00and think that's the best album, you know?

1:00:00 > 1:00:03We always liked to throw in a bit more sort of thinking kind of music

1:00:03 > 1:00:06in there, did long songs and tried to do a few things

1:00:06 > 1:00:08that were slightly more, you know,

1:00:08 > 1:00:10slightly less predictable, if you like.

1:00:10 > 1:00:13# I didn't, I didn't

1:00:13 > 1:00:15# I didn't do it, uh-ow!

1:00:15 > 1:00:16# I didn't, I didn't

1:00:16 > 1:00:18# I didn't do it, uh-uh-ah

1:00:18 > 1:00:20# I didn't, I didn't

1:00:20 > 1:00:21# I didn't do it, guv, honest

1:00:21 > 1:00:23# I didn't, I didn't

1:00:23 > 1:00:25# I didn't do it, I didn't

1:00:25 > 1:00:27# I didn't, I didn't do it... #

1:00:27 > 1:00:31Another record that was really big at the time

1:00:31 > 1:00:36was Grandmaster Flash and it was called "The Message",

1:00:36 > 1:00:40and it had this sort of "hoo-hoo-ha-ha-ha-ha"

1:00:40 > 1:00:42sort of laugh in it.

1:00:42 > 1:00:46# Don't push me cos I'm close to the edge

1:00:46 > 1:00:50# I'm trying not to lose my head

1:00:50 > 1:00:51# Ha-ha, ha-ha! #

1:00:51 > 1:00:53Ha-ha, ha!

1:00:53 > 1:00:54# Ha-ha, ha-ha! #

1:00:54 > 1:00:58And we all thought, "That's fantastic," you know? That laugh.

1:00:58 > 1:01:00What a fantastic idea to have on a record, a laugh, you know?

1:01:00 > 1:01:03I mean not since The Laughing Policeman

1:01:03 > 1:01:05was there such a laugh on a record.

1:01:08 > 1:01:11And I just started going, "Ha-ha-ha.

1:01:11 > 1:01:14"Ha-ha-ha!" And everyone would kind of, you know,

1:01:14 > 1:01:16we were playing, and sort of looked and laughed and smiled,

1:01:16 > 1:01:19but I knew that it wasn't getting a grimace, it was getting a smile,

1:01:19 > 1:01:22you know? So I thought, "OK, well, I'll remember that."

1:01:29 > 1:01:32And the lyrics of Mama were improvised.

1:01:32 > 1:01:34I was kind of, that's my kind of Lennon.

1:01:34 > 1:01:37HE HUMS MELODY

1:01:37 > 1:01:41Lennon sort of influence, kind of with the echo, Be-Bop-A-Lula.

1:01:41 > 1:01:43It was just kind of compression.

1:01:43 > 1:01:46It sounded a bit like a Lennon song.

1:01:46 > 1:01:49# I can't see you, Mama... #

1:01:49 > 1:01:51You had to sort of sneer a bit when you were singing it.

1:01:51 > 1:01:56# I can't see you, Mama

1:01:56 > 1:02:02# But I can hardly wait... #

1:02:02 > 1:02:07# But I can hardly wait

1:02:07 > 1:02:10# Ooh, to touch... #

1:02:10 > 1:02:13Ha-ha, ha-ha. Oh...

1:02:13 > 1:02:17In all the years, no-one ever asked, "Why the laugh?"

1:02:17 > 1:02:20Because I thought that people would be surprised, you know?

1:02:20 > 1:02:23Genesis. Grandmaster Flash.

1:02:23 > 1:02:24Surely not?

1:02:24 > 1:02:27MUSIC: That's All

1:02:36 > 1:02:38# Just as I thought it was going all right

1:02:38 > 1:02:41# I found out I'm wrong when I thought I was right

1:02:41 > 1:02:42# S'always the same

1:02:42 > 1:02:46# It's just a shame, that's all

1:02:46 > 1:02:49# I could say day and you'd say night

1:02:49 > 1:02:52# Tell me it's black when I know that it's white

1:02:52 > 1:02:54# Always the same

1:02:54 > 1:02:56# It's just a shame and that's all... #

1:02:56 > 1:02:59The albums that became huge in America and Britain,

1:02:59 > 1:03:03they're concise, they're effective.

1:03:03 > 1:03:06For me, they're a little clinical but effective.

1:03:06 > 1:03:09The soul and art rock, if you will, of the previous albums

1:03:09 > 1:03:10has been side-lined.

1:03:10 > 1:03:13They're more like a well-oiled machine by that point.

1:03:13 > 1:03:16# ..If I knew you were looking at me It's always the same

1:03:16 > 1:03:18# It's just a shame, that's all. #

1:03:18 > 1:03:21Stick at a thing for long enough, you know?

1:03:21 > 1:03:23No, I loved it. It was great having hits.

1:03:23 > 1:03:25You know, I'd been brought up in the era of hits.

1:03:25 > 1:03:29In the '60s, you know, the next Beatles song coming out

1:03:29 > 1:03:32was the sort of high point of my existence, really,

1:03:32 > 1:03:35and all this stuff, you know? So hits for me were, you know,

1:03:35 > 1:03:37I loved hits. And to suddenly have records in the charts,

1:03:37 > 1:03:40having your record... I mean it's still a thrill for me now

1:03:40 > 1:03:41to hear a record on the radio.

1:03:41 > 1:03:46Right now, for the very first time on Top Of The Pops, it's Genesis.

1:03:46 > 1:03:48MUSIC: Turn It On Again

1:03:48 > 1:03:51Less obvious hits like Turn It On Again and Mama,

1:03:51 > 1:03:54neither of which are very totally straightforward pop songs,

1:03:54 > 1:03:57were able to be hits because we were kind of, we were accepted now,

1:03:57 > 1:04:00we could be played on Radio One, whereas in the old days

1:04:00 > 1:04:04we could only be played on sort of deepest, darkest sort of something.

1:04:18 > 1:04:21# All I need is a TV show

1:04:21 > 1:04:24# That and the radio... #

1:04:24 > 1:04:26- Hi, I'm Phil Collins. - I'm Mike Rutherford.

1:04:26 > 1:04:28- And I'm Tony Banks.- Of Genesis,

1:04:28 > 1:04:29and you're watching MTV,

1:04:29 > 1:04:32the world's first all day/all night video music channel.

1:04:32 > 1:04:34- TOGETHER:- In stereo.

1:04:36 > 1:04:40This MTV thing meant that a hit song was so high-profile

1:04:40 > 1:04:43that it was on every bar, every restaurant all round the world.

1:04:47 > 1:04:50MUSIC: Invisible Touch

1:04:56 > 1:04:58Once it got to Invisible Touch and we had, you know,

1:04:58 > 1:05:00in America we had

1:05:00 > 1:05:03a number one single suddenly, you know. Extraordinary.

1:05:03 > 1:05:06And, you know, half a dozen songs off that album,

1:05:06 > 1:05:08because the way America calculated charts

1:05:08 > 1:05:10was on radio play as much as on sales,

1:05:10 > 1:05:14and we were played everywhere, so we had all these songs that were hits.

1:05:14 > 1:05:17# ..Nothing could go wrong

1:05:17 > 1:05:20# Now I know... #

1:05:20 > 1:05:22Right now, ladies and gentlemen, Genesis.

1:05:22 > 1:05:24Genesis!

1:05:24 > 1:05:26The almost all-Genesis weekend.

1:05:26 > 1:05:29Start by casting your vote in the next round

1:05:29 > 1:05:31of the Friday night video clash.

1:05:31 > 1:05:34# ..She seems to have an invisible touch, yeah

1:05:34 > 1:05:38# She reaches in and grabs right hold of your heart

1:05:38 > 1:05:41# She seems to have an invisible touch, yeah

1:05:41 > 1:05:46# It takes control and slowly tears you apart

1:05:46 > 1:05:48# Well, I don't really know her

1:05:48 > 1:05:51# I only know her name

1:05:52 > 1:05:56# Ooh but she crawls under your skin

1:05:56 > 1:05:59# You're never quite the same

1:05:59 > 1:06:01# And now I know

1:06:03 > 1:06:06# She's got something you just can't trust

1:06:06 > 1:06:10# And it's something mysterious

1:06:10 > 1:06:13# And now it seems, I'm falling

1:06:13 > 1:06:14# Falling for her. #

1:06:14 > 1:06:18# I want to be

1:06:18 > 1:06:21# Your sledgehammer

1:06:23 > 1:06:25# Why don't you call my name?

1:06:26 > 1:06:28# Ha

1:06:28 > 1:06:30# You better call the sledgehammer... #

1:06:33 > 1:06:36The impact of MTV was enormously influential

1:06:36 > 1:06:38for Genesis and for Peter Gabriel.

1:06:38 > 1:06:41They were always a very theatrical band but, of course,

1:06:41 > 1:06:43to very limited audiences of a few thousand here

1:06:43 > 1:06:44and 20,000 there, or whatever.

1:06:44 > 1:06:48To suddenly be able to channel those theatrical impulses

1:06:48 > 1:06:53into video on MTV changed their fortunes for ever.

1:06:53 > 1:06:55MTV brings you Genesis tonight.

1:06:55 > 1:06:5810pm Eastern, 9pm Central.

1:06:58 > 1:06:597pm Pacific.

1:06:59 > 1:07:03I think the solo careers of Mike Rutherford and Tony Banks

1:07:03 > 1:07:06are always going to be over-shadowed by those of Collins and Gabriel,

1:07:06 > 1:07:10because they were the vocalists and, you know, as is always the case.

1:07:10 > 1:07:12I actually thought about doing a solo album

1:07:12 > 1:07:15before Trick Of The Tail, so I did it and, you know,

1:07:15 > 1:07:18I wrote A Curious Feeling.

1:07:20 > 1:07:24# It sure felt good for a while... #

1:07:24 > 1:07:27I was obviously hoping for more success than it had,

1:07:27 > 1:07:28I have to be honest about it, really.

1:07:28 > 1:07:30But it did make the top 20, so, you know, it can't be too bad.

1:07:35 > 1:07:37# Do what you want

1:07:37 > 1:07:39# Do what you want You've got to... #

1:07:39 > 1:07:42So I did a load of those albums, you know,

1:07:42 > 1:07:45I did about half a dozen albums, five albums, I think, solo albums.

1:07:45 > 1:07:49But then the idea came, perhaps just before I concede,

1:07:49 > 1:07:52I should have a go at doing stuff with an orchestra,

1:07:52 > 1:07:54and I wrote a couple of pieces that I thought would work

1:07:54 > 1:07:57really well with an orchestra.

1:08:04 > 1:08:07And, you know, I actually got some quite good reviews

1:08:07 > 1:08:09from the classical people, even.

1:08:09 > 1:08:11You know, I mean most of them were sort of, you know, don't want

1:08:11 > 1:08:13to know about rock guys doing classical music,

1:08:13 > 1:08:15it's somehow beyond the pale.

1:08:15 > 1:08:17But it was, it got some good reviews.

1:08:17 > 1:08:19Actually it sold quite well,

1:08:19 > 1:08:21far better than anything I'd done before.

1:08:27 > 1:08:31# I said go if you want to go

1:08:31 > 1:08:33# Stay if you want to stay

1:08:33 > 1:08:37# I didn't care if you hung around me

1:08:37 > 1:08:40# I didn't care if you went away... #

1:08:40 > 1:08:44In order to be a solo artist, you have to be a singer.

1:08:44 > 1:08:47Without that, it's a bit tough, as I found out.

1:08:49 > 1:08:51If you write a good song, you want a great voice

1:08:51 > 1:08:53and that great voice isn't me.

1:08:53 > 1:08:56# ..All I need is a miracle

1:08:56 > 1:09:00# All I need is you

1:09:02 > 1:09:03# All I need is a miracle

1:09:03 > 1:09:06# All I need is you... #

1:09:06 > 1:09:10The fastest rising hit in Britain and the States,

1:09:10 > 1:09:13written by Scotland's BA Robertson and Mike Rutherford of Genesis.

1:09:13 > 1:09:17It's called The Living Years from Mike and the Mechanics.

1:09:17 > 1:09:22# Say it, say it, say it loud

1:09:22 > 1:09:24# Say it clear

1:09:24 > 1:09:27# Oh, say it clear

1:09:27 > 1:09:34# You can listen as well as you hear... #

1:09:35 > 1:09:39I find the act of collaboration the exciting part.

1:09:39 > 1:09:42You're sort of, you're feeding off what the other person's doing.

1:09:42 > 1:09:45# Looking back

1:09:45 > 1:09:48# Over my shoulder

1:09:48 > 1:09:50# I can see

1:09:50 > 1:09:53# That look in your eye... #

1:09:54 > 1:09:58Even if I'd have been a singer with a decent voice,

1:09:58 > 1:10:02I would have always probably carried on co-writing, because I like that.

1:10:04 > 1:10:07I was being given fantastic opportunities, if you like,

1:10:07 > 1:10:10and I just think, "Yeah, how can I say no to that, you know?

1:10:10 > 1:10:14"Because maybe I won't get asked again, I should do that,

1:10:14 > 1:10:16"it'll be great fun, you know?" Whereas in fact you end up

1:10:16 > 1:10:18being everywhere and in people's faces the whole time.

1:10:18 > 1:10:20# You can't hurry love

1:10:20 > 1:10:23# No, you'll just have to wait

1:10:23 > 1:10:25# She said don't love come easy

1:10:25 > 1:10:28# It's a game of give and take... #

1:10:28 > 1:10:30Ladies and gentlemen, Phil Collins.

1:10:34 > 1:10:36Congratulations on the five Emmy Awards.

1:10:36 > 1:10:39- Yes, the Grammys, yeah. - Grammys, right.

1:10:39 > 1:10:42# ..How many heartaches must I stand

1:10:42 > 1:10:48# Before I find a love to let me live again... #

1:10:48 > 1:10:50So how about the fellas in Genesis, are they furious?

1:10:50 > 1:10:53- Oh, no, no, no, no. - They're spitting blood I heard.

1:10:53 > 1:10:56The rumour in the music press is they're spitting blood.

1:10:56 > 1:10:58I mean, it was great for him, you know,

1:10:58 > 1:11:01he was our friend, we wanted him to do well but, you know,

1:11:01 > 1:11:04we didn't want him to do that well, not initially.

1:11:04 > 1:11:07But, you know, it was the thing and it kind of never went away.

1:11:10 > 1:11:12# ..No, you'll just have to wait

1:11:12 > 1:11:15# She said love don't come easy

1:11:15 > 1:11:18# It's a game of give and take... #

1:11:18 > 1:11:20He was ubiquitous for about 15 years, you know?

1:11:20 > 1:11:22You couldn't get away from him, it was a nightmare.

1:11:22 > 1:11:27# You'll be in my heart

1:11:27 > 1:11:31# No matter what they say

1:11:31 > 1:11:35# You'll be here in my heart

1:11:35 > 1:11:39# Always... #

1:11:39 > 1:11:42Peter's music changed once he left Genesis,

1:11:42 > 1:11:45because he wasn't under the Genesis umbrella.

1:11:45 > 1:11:48Now it's true, of course, that all the members of Genesis

1:11:48 > 1:11:51were having hits, but it was Peter who was the one becoming more

1:11:51 > 1:11:55and more involved in politics and political causes.

1:11:55 > 1:11:58I think the stuff Peter Gabriel has done politically

1:11:58 > 1:11:59is enormously important.

1:11:59 > 1:12:01And I think he was always ahead of the curve.

1:12:01 > 1:12:03You know, he always kind of knew what was going on.

1:12:03 > 1:12:07I mean, songs that I know people probably get sick to death

1:12:07 > 1:12:09of people banging on about, songs like Biko and stuff,

1:12:09 > 1:12:11but, you know, nobody else was doing it.

1:12:11 > 1:12:16A man who was imprisoned, tortured and killed in a jail in South Africa.

1:12:16 > 1:12:20This is for Stephen Biko.

1:12:20 > 1:12:24Biko's death may have done more damage to South Africa's image

1:12:24 > 1:12:28abroad than he could have achieved alive with 1,000 speeches.

1:12:28 > 1:12:32Why were you drawn at the time to write a song about Biko?

1:12:32 > 1:12:36I think it was a tremendous shock because I think no-one...

1:12:36 > 1:12:39There'd been a certain amount of publicity about his arrest

1:12:39 > 1:12:41and no-one was expecting him to be killed.

1:12:41 > 1:12:45# The outside world is black and white

1:12:45 > 1:12:50# With only one colour dead

1:12:50 > 1:12:53# Oh, Biko

1:12:53 > 1:12:58# Biko, because Biko... #

1:12:58 > 1:13:01I think had he been allowed to live he could have been

1:13:01 > 1:13:04a great African statesman, perhaps sort of crystallised the hopes

1:13:04 > 1:13:09of a lot of young people in the way that Kennedy did in America.

1:13:09 > 1:13:11And I think it's tragic the way, you know,

1:13:11 > 1:13:13he was, his life was cut short.

1:13:25 > 1:13:28We'd dreamt of having our own studio for years, you know, because going

1:13:28 > 1:13:31to these holes in the ground in sort of, first of all, in London

1:13:31 > 1:13:35and stuff, we just thought it would be so nice, and then you could

1:13:35 > 1:13:36actually sort of write and record

1:13:36 > 1:13:38in the same place with no time pressures.

1:13:38 > 1:13:40Invisible Touch was the first album we did here.

1:13:40 > 1:13:42And when we got here it was fantastic.

1:13:42 > 1:13:45And the key thing was being able to sort of focus,

1:13:45 > 1:13:48because otherwise you have to write an album, rehearse it quite well

1:13:48 > 1:13:49and then go and record it.

1:13:49 > 1:13:52So you'd already sort of decided how it was going to sound,

1:13:52 > 1:13:55whereas, because we owned the place, we could sort of write

1:13:55 > 1:13:57and almost record at the same time and mess around.

1:13:57 > 1:14:00It just it made the whole thing a lot freer and I think better for us.

1:14:00 > 1:14:03# She don't like losing

1:14:03 > 1:14:07# To her it's just a game

1:14:07 > 1:14:10# And though she will fuck up your life

1:14:10 > 1:14:13# You want her just the same

1:14:13 > 1:14:16# Ask me, I know

1:14:17 > 1:14:22# She's got this built-in ability

1:14:22 > 1:14:25# To touch everything she sees

1:14:25 > 1:14:27# And now it seems

1:14:27 > 1:14:29# I've fallen, fallen for her

1:14:29 > 1:14:33# She seems to have an invisible touch, yeah... #

1:14:33 > 1:14:36I think all the other albums at that time were,

1:14:36 > 1:14:38to a certain extent, treading water.

1:14:38 > 1:14:40The big one was Invisible Touch,

1:14:40 > 1:14:44that was the one that moved them to the level where

1:14:44 > 1:14:49they could create an album that 14.5 million people would buy.

1:14:49 > 1:14:52And they never really topped that moment.

1:14:52 > 1:14:57# I'm so lonely

1:14:57 > 1:15:00# I feel so boxed in

1:15:00 > 1:15:03# I've lost my wife... #

1:15:03 > 1:15:06I'd become one of the people of the '80s -

1:15:06 > 1:15:09that was one of the reasons why people didn't like it.

1:15:09 > 1:15:13Just do that small lean forward, please.

1:15:13 > 1:15:17I used to travel to England a lot and do videos for Genesis

1:15:17 > 1:15:20and Phil and other bands there, and I always watched Spitting Image

1:15:20 > 1:15:23on television, because it was a great show.

1:15:23 > 1:15:26And one time they had a video of Phil,

1:15:26 > 1:15:30and he was like crying, and it was about his wife leaving him.

1:15:30 > 1:15:34# As you packed your toothbrush in your bag

1:15:34 > 1:15:37# At once my spine began to tingle

1:15:37 > 1:15:40# As you shoved the door keys up my nose... #

1:15:40 > 1:15:44I thought to myself, "This is really cool, they have a Phil puppet."

1:15:44 > 1:15:47And for a long time I was thinking it would be great to do

1:15:47 > 1:15:49a puppet video with them.

1:15:52 > 1:15:53I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear,

1:15:53 > 1:15:55that I will faithfully execute

1:15:55 > 1:15:58the office of the President of the United States.

1:15:58 > 1:16:01Mr President, we have an idea...

1:16:01 > 1:16:04It wasn't a fun decade at all.

1:16:04 > 1:16:07You had such division in the country. You had riots

1:16:07 > 1:16:08with the police.

1:16:08 > 1:16:11Thatcher was such an abrasive and divisive person.

1:16:11 > 1:16:12Do you have any piranha?

1:16:12 > 1:16:14As indeed was Reagan.

1:16:14 > 1:16:18# Did you read the news today?

1:16:18 > 1:16:22# They say the danger's gone away

1:16:22 > 1:16:25# But I can see the fire's still alight... #

1:16:25 > 1:16:28It's a song that is the nearest I've ever come to actually making

1:16:28 > 1:16:30an out in the open statement.

1:16:30 > 1:16:33I normally make little comments about things in a subtle

1:16:33 > 1:16:35sort of an aside way.

1:16:35 > 1:16:39It's really about how we live in a very nice world

1:16:39 > 1:16:41and what a mess we're making of it,

1:16:41 > 1:16:45and how it should all be so easy and how it's all so difficult.

1:16:45 > 1:16:46It's a kind of '80s protest song.

1:16:46 > 1:16:48# ..This is the time

1:16:48 > 1:16:51# This is the place

1:16:51 > 1:16:54# So we look for the future... #

1:16:54 > 1:16:57The sad thing is, you know, the puppets are in better shape

1:16:57 > 1:17:00than the people we're caricaturing these days, you know?

1:17:00 > 1:17:03I hope Phil's doing well compared to his puppet.

1:17:05 > 1:17:07# ..This is the world we live in... #

1:17:07 > 1:17:10Yeah, I bought one of my heads.

1:17:10 > 1:17:12Someone in Texas has bought my head.

1:17:12 > 1:17:15Slightly worries me actually. What's he doing with it?

1:17:19 > 1:17:23I mean, we're just popular, and there's nothing wrong with that.

1:17:23 > 1:17:26I mean, we just got more popular.

1:17:28 > 1:17:31I won't take the credit and I won't take the blame, you know?

1:17:51 > 1:17:56With MTV and videos, a hit single overshadowed the whole album,

1:17:56 > 1:17:59and people started sort of saying, "Well, you know,

1:17:59 > 1:18:01"you stopped doing long songs."

1:18:01 > 1:18:02We never did, really.

1:18:02 > 1:18:04You know, every album had a sort of 15 minute song on it

1:18:04 > 1:18:06till the very end, but they're album tracks,

1:18:06 > 1:18:08and so they weren't on the television,

1:18:08 > 1:18:13they weren't on the radio, but live they're a big part of the set.

1:18:17 > 1:18:20I always knew the long songs would always grab them.

1:18:20 > 1:18:22A - they were good songs,

1:18:22 > 1:18:24B - visually they were very impressive,

1:18:24 > 1:18:27with the varied lights and the staging.

1:18:27 > 1:18:29# Blood on the windows

1:18:29 > 1:18:32# Millions of ordinary people are there

1:18:32 > 1:18:35# They gaze at the scenery... #

1:18:35 > 1:18:38So, in a sense, I think those who came to see us

1:18:38 > 1:18:41because of the singles and the short songs and the radio tracks

1:18:41 > 1:18:43went away with a different impression of us.

1:18:43 > 1:18:49# ..But there's nothing you can do when you're next in line

1:18:51 > 1:18:53# And you've got to go domino... #

1:18:53 > 1:18:56When we played live, the songs that have really stood out

1:18:56 > 1:18:59are things like Domino and Home By the Sea,

1:18:59 > 1:19:01which are probably the classic songs from the later period.

1:19:01 > 1:19:04# Images of sorrow Pictures of delight

1:19:04 > 1:19:07# Things that go to make up a life

1:19:07 > 1:19:11# Endless days of summer Longer nights of gloom

1:19:11 > 1:19:14# Just waiting for that morning light... #

1:19:14 > 1:19:16Well, neither of those were singles

1:19:16 > 1:19:18or even any attempt at being a single,

1:19:18 > 1:19:20and yet they worked so well live.

1:19:20 > 1:19:23You really build to a climax with both those songs.

1:19:23 > 1:19:24# ..Help us, someone

1:19:24 > 1:19:27# Let us out of here

1:19:27 > 1:19:31# Living here so long undisturbed

1:19:31 > 1:19:34# Dreaming of the time we were free

1:19:34 > 1:19:37# So many years ago

1:19:38 > 1:19:42# Before the time when we first heard

1:19:42 > 1:19:44# Welcome to the home by the sea... #

1:19:44 > 1:19:47It was extraordinary really, and you knew it couldn't last, actually.

1:20:01 > 1:20:04It was on a divine visitation that the Lord told me

1:20:04 > 1:20:07that I was to go on the television.

1:20:07 > 1:20:11'Ernest Angley, and he talked like that,

1:20:11 > 1:20:13'and he was very affected'

1:20:13 > 1:20:15and he would,

1:20:15 > 1:20:20with his beautiful leisure suit and a very bad wig,

1:20:20 > 1:20:23and he would...

1:20:25 > 1:20:29"Out of the screen, you devil!" You know, it was awful stuff.

1:20:29 > 1:20:33I mean, it was very, you know, Bible-belt eccentric.

1:20:33 > 1:20:36# Do you see the face on the TV screen

1:20:36 > 1:20:38# Coming at you every Sunday?

1:20:38 > 1:20:40# See the face on the billboard

1:20:40 > 1:20:43# Well, that man is me

1:20:43 > 1:20:46# I'm the colour of a magazine

1:20:46 > 1:20:48# There's no question why I'm smiling

1:20:48 > 1:20:50# You buy a piece of paradise

1:20:50 > 1:20:52# You buy a piece of me... #

1:20:52 > 1:20:57I just had a problem with the whole, you know, TV evangelists.

1:20:57 > 1:21:00I mean, when I was growing there was Billy Graham, you know,

1:21:00 > 1:21:02and that was it.

1:21:03 > 1:21:05# ..Jesus, he knows me

1:21:05 > 1:21:08# And He knows I'm right

1:21:08 > 1:21:11# I've been talking to Jesus

1:21:11 > 1:21:13# All my life

1:21:13 > 1:21:15# Ah, yes, he knows me

1:21:15 > 1:21:18# And he knows I'm right... #

1:21:18 > 1:21:21We were improvising and trying different things,

1:21:21 > 1:21:24and eventually when I was singing. I'd sing, "Jesus, he knows me."

1:21:24 > 1:21:29And I don't know if Tony and Mike were really kind of hearing it.

1:21:29 > 1:21:33I don't think they were too sure about the lyric

1:21:33 > 1:21:36until I'd, you know, finished it.

1:21:36 > 1:21:38Because it was a satire in the end.

1:21:38 > 1:21:41I think they kind of thought that it was a bit serious.

1:21:41 > 1:21:43It was quite fun, I mean, you know?

1:21:43 > 1:21:46- We had the girls in the middle, didn't we?- Yeah.

1:21:46 > 1:21:49We insisted. We'd made so many videos and we just wanted

1:21:49 > 1:21:51one time to do a video like David Lee Roth...

1:21:51 > 1:21:53- To be near naked women.- Yeah!

1:21:53 > 1:21:55So we had this bit in the middle of that,

1:21:55 > 1:21:57which was an excuse for it, really.

1:21:57 > 1:22:00# ..God will take good care of you

1:22:00 > 1:22:04# But just do as I say don't do as I do... #

1:22:15 > 1:22:19I can't remember quite when we started writing We Can't Dance,

1:22:19 > 1:22:22but it was done in a pretty...

1:22:22 > 1:22:25You know, once we started we kept going till we'd finished it.

1:22:25 > 1:22:29It didn't take a ridiculous amount of time to write We Can't Dance.

1:22:29 > 1:22:31# I can't dance

1:22:31 > 1:22:33# I can't sing... #

1:22:33 > 1:22:37But I wrote a lot of lyrics on We Can't Dance,

1:22:37 > 1:22:41and I think I was allowed to do that.

1:22:41 > 1:22:45You know, I mean I still...

1:22:45 > 1:22:49I still play third in line.

1:22:49 > 1:22:53- Unless the lyrics are right. - We're in now.

1:22:53 > 1:22:55We'll probably come back to a vocal, I don't know where.

1:22:55 > 1:22:57If you want me to sing, George, I'll sing.

1:22:57 > 1:23:00Want me to sing, I'll sing. If you don't want me to sing, I won't sing.

1:23:00 > 1:23:03I'm still the new boy, even now.

1:23:03 > 1:23:05It's kind of amazing, isn't it?

1:23:05 > 1:23:07CHEERING

1:23:16 > 1:23:18When we put out We Can't Dance,

1:23:18 > 1:23:20we were very confident at that point.

1:23:27 > 1:23:30The line "something about the way we walk",

1:23:30 > 1:23:34I thought was the sort of funniest line in it, so the feeling I had

1:23:34 > 1:23:36was we should do the choruses with a silly walk.

1:23:36 > 1:23:40Now, the silly walk was his, you know? He'd have this walk around

1:23:40 > 1:23:42which apparently you used to do at stage school or something.

1:23:42 > 1:23:45Yeah, I was at a drama school... Drama school.

1:23:45 > 1:23:47It wasn't that good.

1:23:47 > 1:23:50You could always tell the people that really shouldn't

1:23:50 > 1:23:51be doing dancing, you know,

1:23:51 > 1:23:54because they'd do the same foot and the same hand.

1:23:54 > 1:23:57And it just always struck me as funny, that.

1:24:10 > 1:24:12# No, I can't dance

1:24:12 > 1:24:14# I can't talk

1:24:14 > 1:24:18# The only thing about me is the way I walk

1:24:18 > 1:24:20# No, I can't dance

1:24:20 > 1:24:23# I can't sing

1:24:23 > 1:24:28# I'm just standing here selling everything... #

1:24:32 > 1:24:35And obviously that did well, the album did very well.

1:24:35 > 1:24:37It was sort of towards the end of that period

1:24:37 > 1:24:40when we released our final single from that album,

1:24:40 > 1:24:44a song called Tell Me Why, that I sort of felt suddenly it was...

1:24:44 > 1:24:48Something had changed, and we didn't get played on radio and stuff.

1:24:48 > 1:24:50And really from then on, you know,

1:24:50 > 1:24:52suddenly Genesis was sort of phtt, like that.

1:24:52 > 1:24:55And these things sort of sometimes suddenly happen

1:24:55 > 1:24:57and you don't quite know why.

1:25:22 > 1:25:25I think the fans thought that they'd seen the last of Genesis,

1:25:25 > 1:25:28so it came as a real joyous surprise when they announced that they

1:25:28 > 1:25:32were getting back together for a final tour in 2006.

1:25:32 > 1:25:34It certainly was a surprise to me.

1:25:34 > 1:25:37I think it is the fact that regardless of your age, race,

1:25:37 > 1:25:40genre, colour - everybody loves a little bit of Genesis.

1:25:45 > 1:25:47Have you been waiting long?

1:25:47 > 1:25:49We've been waiting for you 15 years.

1:25:49 > 1:25:51Darling, darling.

1:25:51 > 1:25:54'They're a band that's managed to straddle so many different phases

1:25:54 > 1:25:56'in the history of British rock music and they're still around.'

1:25:56 > 1:25:59They were sensible enough to realise that

1:25:59 > 1:26:02what they had was worth more than the parts.

1:26:02 > 1:26:05Yeah, there are a couple of old songs in their entirety.

1:26:05 > 1:26:07Well, just try a few and see what happens.

1:26:07 > 1:26:10People will investigate that back catalogue and really realise

1:26:10 > 1:26:13that there really is some wonderful, artistic, intelligent

1:26:13 > 1:26:16stuff in there, which is exactly what we're always crying out for.

1:26:16 > 1:26:19We're always moaning, "Where is the art, where is the intelligence,

1:26:19 > 1:26:22"where is the ambition in today's simplistic music?"

1:26:22 > 1:26:23Well, it's there.

1:26:24 > 1:26:28# Cry, cry at the top of my voice

1:26:28 > 1:26:30# Crying at the... #

1:26:30 > 1:26:32I think the secret to Genesis's longevity

1:26:32 > 1:26:35is that they are the progressive rock band who progressed.

1:26:35 > 1:26:38And progressive rock bands, according to their fans,

1:26:38 > 1:26:42are supposed to stop about two albums into progressing

1:26:42 > 1:26:45and progress no more, and that's why they've survived.

1:26:45 > 1:26:50They're great musicians, great writers of music, great lyricists.

1:26:50 > 1:26:53And I love the fact that they also expand

1:26:53 > 1:26:56and explore with other musicians.

1:26:59 > 1:27:01They have straddled so many periods.

1:27:01 > 1:27:04They have been hugely successful within prog rock in the '70s,

1:27:04 > 1:27:06as a pop and rock band in the '80s.

1:27:06 > 1:27:10Gabriel's had a solo career that's spanned, you know, decades.

1:27:10 > 1:27:11I think they will be remembered

1:27:11 > 1:27:14because they've written great songs and they are great musicians

1:27:14 > 1:27:17and, at the end of the day, that's what's important.

1:27:17 > 1:27:19# And need I say I love you?

1:27:19 > 1:27:22# Need I say I care?

1:27:22 > 1:27:25# Need I say that emotions

1:27:25 > 1:27:28# Are something we don't share... #

1:27:30 > 1:27:34I think it's very flattering, you know, to be part of something

1:27:34 > 1:27:37that people call the soundtrack of their lives.

1:27:37 > 1:27:39But they say, you know, like, "I grew up with your music,

1:27:39 > 1:27:42"and so therefore, you know, you're pretty special to me."

1:27:42 > 1:27:45You know, and that's like, it's...

1:27:45 > 1:27:49I mean, that's fantastic for someone that writes.

1:27:49 > 1:27:53I mean, that kind of almost negates all the negative stuff.

1:27:56 > 1:27:59You can't keep doing exactly the same thing for ever and ever.

1:27:59 > 1:28:02I don't think. And I think the reason we lasted so long

1:28:02 > 1:28:05was those changes, which gave us the chance to actually

1:28:05 > 1:28:07be a bit different each time.

1:28:07 > 1:28:10# Throwing it all away

1:28:10 > 1:28:13# Throwing it all away... #

1:28:13 > 1:28:16We just carried on doing what we'd always done.

1:28:16 > 1:28:17We just used to write.

1:28:17 > 1:28:19We probably got better at doing the shorter stuff,

1:28:19 > 1:28:21there's no doubt about that.

1:28:21 > 1:28:23We always liked to throw in a bit more sort of thinking

1:28:23 > 1:28:25kind of music in there.

1:28:25 > 1:28:28Did long songs, and tried to do a few things that were slightly

1:28:28 > 1:28:31more... You know, slightly less predictable, if you like.

1:28:31 > 1:28:33But I mean we just...

1:28:33 > 1:28:35It's a very difficult thing to know, you just do what you want

1:28:35 > 1:28:38at the time with a particular combination of people you've got.

1:28:46 > 1:28:50# ..We're throwing it all away... #

1:28:50 > 1:28:54Never underestimate what difference you could make or what you could do.

1:28:54 > 1:28:59I've seen other people, you know, at every stage with everything

1:28:59 > 1:29:02I've done, who are smarter and better than I am,

1:29:02 > 1:29:03and that hasn't deterred me.

1:29:03 > 1:29:07So that's what I say to young people everywhere, you know,

1:29:07 > 1:29:10don't limit yourself or limit your expectations

1:29:10 > 1:29:13because if you want to make a difference,

1:29:13 > 1:29:16if you want to change the world, it's all there.

1:29:16 > 1:29:17The secret?

1:29:19 > 1:29:21Well, the music. Are we being serious for a bit?

1:29:21 > 1:29:23- For a bit. Yeah.- For a bit. OK.

1:29:23 > 1:29:27# Carpet crawlers

1:29:27 > 1:29:32# Heed their callers

1:29:32 > 1:29:40# We've got to get in to get out oh, oh

1:29:40 > 1:29:45# We've got to get in to get out

1:29:45 > 1:29:47# Oh, oh

1:29:47 > 1:29:50# We've got to get in

1:29:50 > 1:29:54# To get out. #