0:00:02 > 0:00:06This programme contains very strong language.
0:00:06 > 0:00:08All too often, every female rock musician
0:00:08 > 0:00:11has had to answer a predictable question -
0:00:11 > 0:00:14"What's it like being a girl in a band?"
0:00:14 > 0:00:15Rock and roll is supposed to be
0:00:15 > 0:00:17a place where you can be what you want to be,
0:00:17 > 0:00:19but history suggests that rock bands
0:00:19 > 0:00:22are not equal-opportunities employers.
0:00:22 > 0:00:24For many, the sight of a girl shredding a guitar
0:00:24 > 0:00:27or laying into the drums is still a bit of a novelty.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30Since the birth of the rock-and-roll band,
0:00:30 > 0:00:33boys have spent hours tinkering on their Les Pauls
0:00:33 > 0:00:36while girls are merely the object of the songs,
0:00:36 > 0:00:38or so the story goes.
0:00:38 > 0:00:42As soon as women stepped across the line and formed their own bands,
0:00:42 > 0:00:43they were given labels -
0:00:43 > 0:00:45"The rock chick".
0:00:45 > 0:00:47"The girl band".
0:00:47 > 0:00:49One half of the rock-and-roll couple.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52And sometimes just "the other one".
0:00:52 > 0:00:55I wanted to meet the women who crossed the line, formed bands
0:00:55 > 0:00:57and tried to go their own way.
0:00:57 > 0:01:01If you want to do something, just do it. Don't talk about it.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04And don't criticise other women.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06If... If they want to go out, you know,
0:01:06 > 0:01:10and swing on a wrecking ball naked, why not?
0:01:10 > 0:01:13They related to the world on their own terms.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16We don't want to stand how men stand, with our legs wide open,
0:01:16 > 0:01:17our guitar right down there
0:01:17 > 0:01:20like we've got great big, heavy bollocks hanging down!
0:01:20 > 0:01:23They followed the magnetic pull of the rock-and-roll lifestyle.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25"You're going to meet the biggest rock stars.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28"You're going to play the biggest venues
0:01:28 > 0:01:30"and tour the world!"
0:01:30 > 0:01:34I was like, "Wow! I've got to tell my mom!"
0:01:34 > 0:01:37# A lot of people telling me what to do... #
0:01:37 > 0:01:39There is the predictable.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41It always used to be, "Get your tits out!" basically.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43A photographer was going, "If you open your legs a bit
0:01:43 > 0:01:45"and kind of le..." And I was like...
0:01:47 > 0:01:49- "Fanny! Fanny! Fanny!" - SHE LAUGHS
0:01:49 > 0:01:53Imagine our surprise! I was like, "Oh, they love us!"
0:01:55 > 0:01:59These are the untold stories from half a century on rock's front line.
0:01:59 > 0:02:00I want to discover,
0:02:00 > 0:02:04has it always been different for the girl in a band?
0:02:04 > 0:02:05MUSIC: Rebel Girl by Bikini Girl
0:02:05 > 0:02:07# ..Rebel girl
0:02:07 > 0:02:10# Rebel girl, you are the queen of my world... #
0:02:15 > 0:02:18Before the modern concept of the rock-and-roll band
0:02:18 > 0:02:19took shape in the late 1950s,
0:02:19 > 0:02:22you could try and join a jazz band,
0:02:22 > 0:02:26but playing in smoky LA clubs was considered no place for a lady.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29I'm here to meet someone who muscled in on that world
0:02:29 > 0:02:30and became an exception to the rule.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34This is the story of the invisible woman.
0:02:34 > 0:02:37The girl who ended up the number one called player in the session band
0:02:37 > 0:02:40that played on some of the biggest records of the 20th century.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45Was it unusual for a girl to be playing guitar?
0:02:45 > 0:02:47Well, you know what? I didn't think of it.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50I started to hear this bebop jazz on the radio
0:02:50 > 0:02:52and I said, "That's what I want to play."
0:02:52 > 0:02:55JAZZY GUITAR SOLO
0:02:56 > 0:02:59The teenage Carol cut her teeth as a jazz guitarist
0:02:59 > 0:03:02in clubs around Los Angeles, and being the only girl in the band
0:03:02 > 0:03:05meant she often had to stand her ground.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10There's always one guy in every band that's going to test you.
0:03:10 > 0:03:14You have to get the whole band to laugh at THEM, you know,
0:03:14 > 0:03:17in other words, repeat back to them what they say, you know,
0:03:17 > 0:03:20like this one guy that said,
0:03:20 > 0:03:22"Oh, you're..." I mean...
0:03:22 > 0:03:24"You're a dumb cunt, Carol."
0:03:24 > 0:03:27I said, "Well, you're a dumb prick, too."
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Undeterred by the catcalling,
0:03:29 > 0:03:31Carol carried on playing around LA's jazz clubs
0:03:31 > 0:03:35until she caught the ear of record producer Bumps Blackwell,
0:03:35 > 0:03:37who asked her to play guitar on Summertime
0:03:37 > 0:03:38for the legendary Sam Cooke.
0:03:38 > 0:03:42# Summertime
0:03:43 > 0:03:50# And the living is easy... #
0:03:50 > 0:03:53MUSIC: La Bamba by Richie Valens
0:03:53 > 0:03:56It wasn't long before Richie Valens came calling.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58# Para bailar La Bamba... #
0:03:59 > 0:04:02SHE PLAYS ALONG TO LA BAMBA
0:04:02 > 0:04:05And as the jazz clubs around LA began to close,
0:04:05 > 0:04:09Carol begin making money from the new music of the time, rock and roll,
0:04:09 > 0:04:13playing guitar for artists like Duane Eddy and Chris Montez.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15# Hey baby, won't you take a chance?
0:04:15 > 0:04:18# Say that you'll let me have this dance
0:04:18 > 0:04:19# Well, let's dance... #
0:04:19 > 0:04:23"One dollar, two dollar, three dollar... I love rock and roll!"
0:04:23 > 0:04:25SHE LAUGHS
0:04:25 > 0:04:28"Five dollar, six dollar... Jazz, what's that?"
0:04:28 > 0:04:30# ..Any old dance that you wanna do
0:04:30 > 0:04:31# But let's dance... #
0:04:31 > 0:04:33The spirit of it was
0:04:33 > 0:04:37how to create a hit record with a simple little line.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39See, that was the challenge.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42And was that a challenge that was given to you from the start?
0:04:42 > 0:04:43Oh, yeah, yeah,
0:04:43 > 0:04:46because if you didn't create a hit line,
0:04:46 > 0:04:48you wouldn't... You probably wouldn't work next year.
0:04:48 > 0:04:53# She's a rebel and you'll never be any good... #
0:04:53 > 0:04:55Carol was now in demand as a bass player
0:04:55 > 0:04:58and next up, she entered the Wall Of Sound, working on songs
0:04:58 > 0:05:01with Phil Spector and some of his main draws,
0:05:01 > 0:05:03like The Righteous Brothers.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06Tell me about meeting and working with Phil Spector.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08We all thought he was kind of weird...
0:05:08 > 0:05:10And he would kid with the musicians.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12Pretty soon he started kidding pretty hard
0:05:12 > 0:05:14and he'd pick on them a little bit.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16- Did he ever pick on you? - He did one time.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19I told him to F off or something like that.
0:05:19 > 0:05:24# You've lost that lovin' feeling, now it's gone... #
0:05:24 > 0:05:27Do you ever come across surprise from people being brought in
0:05:27 > 0:05:31just to do vocals on the pop records that you were a female player?
0:05:31 > 0:05:34Frank Sinatra, he was kind of, like, standoffish.
0:05:34 > 0:05:36He was like... "Oh, I've got a woman on today."
0:05:36 > 0:05:38You know, but they were all cool.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41# And then I go and spoil it all
0:05:41 > 0:05:45# By saying something stupid like "I love you..."
0:05:47 > 0:05:51GOOD VIBRATIONS BASS LINE
0:05:51 > 0:05:53After proving herself to the Rat Pack,
0:05:53 > 0:05:57Carol helped a certain Beach Boy shape his musical vision.
0:05:57 > 0:06:00# I'm picking up good vibrations
0:06:00 > 0:06:03# She's giving me excitations... #
0:06:03 > 0:06:07I got along with Brian very well. I was like an older sister to him.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09He brought in his parts.
0:06:09 > 0:06:11They weren't written very well, you know,
0:06:11 > 0:06:13so you knew that he was not schooled in music.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16Sharps and flats on the wrong side of the note,
0:06:16 > 0:06:18stems on the wrong side of the note, you know...
0:06:18 > 0:06:21Sometimes you had to recopy the bass parts.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24BASS TO WICHITA LINEMAN
0:06:24 > 0:06:27Carol Kaye played on over 10,000 sessions
0:06:27 > 0:06:30and laid down some of the Sixties' most famous basslines,
0:06:30 > 0:06:32from Glen Campbell's Wichita Lineman
0:06:32 > 0:06:34to Simon and Garfunkel's Homeward Bound.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39Despite her huge success, she was always a lone pioneer who constantly
0:06:39 > 0:06:42had to defend her unique position in the session business.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53In 1964, a band of Liverpudlian teenagers struck out
0:06:53 > 0:06:56to find fame amid the exotic delights of Hamburg's Reeperbahn.
0:06:57 > 0:07:00The kids couldn't get enough of the Fab Four.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03# It tastes real good but it's so hard
0:07:03 > 0:07:06# Peanut, peanut butter... #
0:07:06 > 0:07:11Val, Mary, Sylvia and Pam were The Liverbirds.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13They were part of the Merseybeat scene.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17It wasn't only Cilla who found success working in the Cavern Club.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20Alongside the Beatles, The Liverbirds were chosen to play
0:07:20 > 0:07:22at Hamburg's famous Star Club.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24It's there that I met up with them to talk about
0:07:24 > 0:07:26the reaction they got when they formed
0:07:26 > 0:07:29their all-girl rock-and-roll band in the early 1960s.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32- This is all the groups that played here?- Yeah.
0:07:32 > 0:07:37- Where are you?- We're right next to The Beatles!- Ah, there you are!
0:07:37 > 0:07:38- Wow!- Yeah.
0:07:38 > 0:07:41SCREAMING DROWNS MUSIC
0:07:43 > 0:07:45Tell me what made the Hamburg scene
0:07:45 > 0:07:47so different from the Liverpool scene.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50In them days, it was the dream of every group
0:07:50 > 0:07:51to come and play in Hamburg.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55If you went back to Liverpool or wherever you came from
0:07:55 > 0:07:58and you had the Star Club sticker on your guitar case,
0:07:58 > 0:08:00it meant that you had achieved something.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04The Star Club may have been the rock-and-roll Mecca
0:08:04 > 0:08:05to all up-and-coming bands,
0:08:05 > 0:08:08but being nestled in Hamburg's infamous Reeperbahn
0:08:08 > 0:08:11made for an eye-opening experience for these good Catholic girls.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17- When you arrived here in Hamburg, you were 18 and 17.- Yeah.- Mmm.
0:08:17 > 0:08:19What did you make of the Reeperbahn?
0:08:20 > 0:08:22- Shock. - THEY LAUGH
0:08:22 > 0:08:26And the taxi dropped us off at the side street and all I saw,
0:08:26 > 0:08:29cos all I was interested in in those days was church...
0:08:29 > 0:08:32"Oh, God, there's a big church!" And then we went round
0:08:32 > 0:08:35the corner and saw all the strip clubs. We couldn't believe it!
0:08:35 > 0:08:39# If you've found someone who loves you more
0:08:39 > 0:08:42# Give you love you've never had before... #
0:08:42 > 0:08:45It was such an unusual group. I mean, you dressed a little bit like boys.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47How did you decide what you were going to look like?
0:08:47 > 0:08:50We only had males that could influence us.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52We wanted to look like them, as well.
0:08:52 > 0:08:55How did people react to a group with all girls on guitars?
0:08:55 > 0:08:59We were only rehearsing at the time, and we went into the dressing room,
0:08:59 > 0:09:02there's John Lennon and Paul McCartney getting changed.
0:09:02 > 0:09:05And John Lennon says, "What's this? Girls with guitars?
0:09:05 > 0:09:06"I bet you that never works out."
0:09:08 > 0:09:11Proving Lennon wrong, The Liverbirds found success in Germany.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14In fact, they never returned to England
0:09:14 > 0:09:16and played on until 1967 when they were still
0:09:16 > 0:09:18one of the club's main draws.
0:09:18 > 0:09:20- Thank you! - CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:09:20 > 0:09:25# And the red queen's off with her head... #
0:09:25 > 0:09:29So, was it now becoming acceptable for girls to start rock bands?
0:09:29 > 0:09:33Psychedelia blossomed across America, producing dazzling frontwomen
0:09:33 > 0:09:36like Grace Slick of Jefferson Airplane, and Janis Joplin.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41# Oh, whoa-oh... #
0:09:41 > 0:09:45If you were a girl in the late 1960s and you wanted to pick up a guitar,
0:09:45 > 0:09:47there was pretty much only one frame of reference.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49You had to play like a man.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53The first all-girl rock band to be given a major label record deal
0:09:53 > 0:09:56in the US were called Fanny.
0:10:04 > 0:10:06When we got to California in 1961,
0:10:06 > 0:10:08it was all about acoustic guitars.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11In the entire world, we knew of no other young women
0:10:11 > 0:10:14or girls who were playing electric.
0:10:14 > 0:10:17I mean, we were very confident cos we knew we could play.
0:10:17 > 0:10:21That really is what separated us maybe from a lot of people
0:10:21 > 0:10:23who wanted to do it, even boys!
0:10:23 > 0:10:26We were a lot better than a lot of boys that we ran into.
0:10:33 > 0:10:36We've played the Fillmore East. We've played the Fillmore West.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38We've played with The Kinks, with Procol Harum and we...
0:10:38 > 0:10:41We've just done so much. We were in the circle.
0:10:41 > 0:10:46And I think they were all pretty thrilled to have us come in,
0:10:46 > 0:10:48you know, these "chicks" who could play.
0:10:48 > 0:10:53# I've got too much time on my hands
0:10:53 > 0:10:57# I've gotta find me a superman... #
0:11:00 > 0:11:03And when a band called Fanny started writing songs,
0:11:03 > 0:11:07their lyrics tapped into the sexually liberated spirit of the age.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12# Cos I'm a hot lovin'
0:11:12 > 0:11:13# Good lovin'
0:11:13 > 0:11:16# Sweet lovin' woman and I know how to love... #
0:11:20 > 0:11:24It was just a complete lifestyle change that was moving with society,
0:11:24 > 0:11:26with civil rights, with feminism,
0:11:26 > 0:11:29that was coming but we didn't know it, you know?
0:11:29 > 0:11:32We were with the times and it was just this little sliver
0:11:32 > 0:11:34that opened up and "boom", we just went right through.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36Back to Fanny, who have been conquering
0:11:36 > 0:11:38male chauvinist hearts everywhere.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41# Special care
0:11:41 > 0:11:47# Has been taken to make you aware... #
0:11:47 > 0:11:51Was there amusement in the UK press at the name Fanny when you came out?
0:11:51 > 0:11:54You know, I don't even remember who broke it to us,
0:11:54 > 0:11:56- what Fanny means... - SHE LAUGHS - ..in the UK,
0:11:56 > 0:11:59but it just seemed really funny to us.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01- "Fanny! Fanny! Fanny!" - SHE LAUGHS
0:12:01 > 0:12:03Imagine our surprise!
0:12:03 > 0:12:06- I was like, "Oh, they love us!" - SHE LAUGHS
0:12:08 > 0:12:12SHE PLAYS SPECIAL CARE
0:12:19 > 0:12:2340 years later, and June's now running a school of rock for girls,
0:12:23 > 0:12:26using her experiences to show the next generation
0:12:26 > 0:12:27what to expect from the business.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32So, tell us about this IMA rock camp you set up for girls.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36What I'm doing is I'm giving back cos I feel like I was really lucky,
0:12:36 > 0:12:38even though when I left Fanny, people didn't understand.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40I needed to find something else...
0:12:40 > 0:12:44- They didn't understand why you were leaving?- Yeah. I barely understood.
0:12:44 > 0:12:47My body just broke down cos I was so tired but I didn't want to leave,
0:12:47 > 0:12:49but my body just said, "Hey, you're done."
0:12:50 > 0:12:53So, when I talk about the music biz to the girls,
0:12:53 > 0:12:56I'm not telling them, "You should go out and become a star."
0:12:56 > 0:13:00What I tell them is, "It's a lot harder to be a star than you think."
0:13:00 > 0:13:03MUSIC: Special Care by Fanny
0:13:06 > 0:13:10JUNE PLAYS LAST NOTE OF SONG
0:13:12 > 0:13:14- Take that! - SHE LAUGHS
0:13:20 > 0:13:24Back in Britain, Elkie Brooks seemed to be the perfect singer
0:13:24 > 0:13:26on the '60s pop circuit.
0:13:26 > 0:13:31# These lonely nights are getting so hard to bear... #
0:13:31 > 0:13:35But for some reason, the decade never quite sat right with her.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41She transformed herself into a smouldering blues rock siren...
0:13:41 > 0:13:45MUSIC: Proud To Be A Honky Woman by Vinegar Joe
0:13:49 > 0:13:50..and found her musical home
0:13:50 > 0:13:53alongside Robert Palmer in the band Vinegar Joe.
0:13:55 > 0:14:01# I'm sorry if I wear mascara and I paint my toenails red... #
0:14:01 > 0:14:03She thought they would last forever
0:14:03 > 0:14:07but it wasn't so easy with two lead singers pulling on the reins.
0:14:07 > 0:14:09# But I was raised in a city
0:14:09 > 0:14:13# On the wrong side of the tracks... #
0:14:13 > 0:14:18There was quite a transformation from '60s Elkie to the amazing rock chick.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21I just loved it. It just seemed very natural for me.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28It just progressed in Vinegar Joe
0:14:28 > 0:14:30to more of a raunchy look.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35Did you feel that you were fitting quite naturally
0:14:35 > 0:14:38- into that more sexy image? - Yeah, I suppose it was quite...
0:14:38 > 0:14:42You know, a little bit of rebellion in me. I've always had that.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45# Proud to be a honky woman, yeah... #
0:14:45 > 0:14:47It was quite unusual to have a male and female
0:14:47 > 0:14:49singing in tandem like that, vying off each other.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52I hated being on my own so much in the '60s.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55And you were happier in the band dynamic, is that right?
0:14:55 > 0:14:56Oh, I loved it. I loved it.
0:14:56 > 0:15:01# With your bizarre repertoire
0:15:01 > 0:15:04# You perform on your Japanese guitar... #
0:15:05 > 0:15:09You had a great chemistry with Robert on stage.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12I thought he was marvellous. A wonderful, wonderful singer.
0:15:12 > 0:15:13And incredible looking!
0:15:13 > 0:15:15He was a wonderful looking man.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18I think I sang with him
0:15:18 > 0:15:21rather than he sang with me.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23# Oh, no
0:15:23 > 0:15:25# With your bizarre
0:15:25 > 0:15:27# Repertoire... #
0:15:27 > 0:15:30So, Melody Maker made you the "Face of 1973".
0:15:30 > 0:15:33What was the reaction to that?
0:15:33 > 0:15:35"Face of '73", yeah.
0:15:35 > 0:15:37No, Robert wasn't very happy about that
0:15:37 > 0:15:43because we, in actual fact, as I found out later,
0:15:43 > 0:15:45were only supposed to be Robert Palmer's backing band.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49But of course, the press picked up on me
0:15:49 > 0:15:52and that wasn't the way it was supposed to go.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55# Oh, lady of the rain... #
0:15:55 > 0:15:58'He was just bitter about it.'
0:15:58 > 0:16:02Because, obviously, he was jealous that they hadn't picked up on him.
0:16:02 > 0:16:07# It's some kind of harmony
0:16:07 > 0:16:11# The shadows you see... #
0:16:11 > 0:16:13How did the band come to an end?
0:16:13 > 0:16:15Well, quite simply,
0:16:15 > 0:16:19Robert said that he was leaving the band.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22And Vinegar Joe was no more.
0:16:22 > 0:16:27We did our last gig, I think, in March 1974.
0:16:27 > 0:16:29How did you feel when it finished?
0:16:29 > 0:16:32Devastated, really.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34Didn't really know what to do.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36For months, I would sit
0:16:36 > 0:16:39and put all the old press cuttings together in a scrapbook.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42You know, I was very much still living in the past.
0:16:42 > 0:16:47it was difficult for me to pick myself up and do something else.
0:16:47 > 0:16:51# Pearl's a singer
0:16:51 > 0:16:53# She stands up
0:16:53 > 0:16:58# When she plays the piano... #
0:16:58 > 0:17:00Within three years,
0:17:00 > 0:17:03Elkie found she was better standing on her own two feet.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05How do you feel about Vinegar Joe now?
0:17:05 > 0:17:07I really have put it down to experience.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
0:17:09 > 0:17:11It's made me the person I am today.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13# Sha-sha-oo-ooh
0:17:13 > 0:17:15# Sha-sha-oo-ooh
0:17:15 > 0:17:17# Sha-sha-oo-ooh
0:17:17 > 0:17:19# Sha-sha-oo-ooh... #
0:17:22 > 0:17:24# And your boyfriend's name is Eagle
0:17:24 > 0:17:26# And he lives up in the sky... #
0:17:26 > 0:17:28Things were changing.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Suddenly everyone wanted to see women in bands.
0:17:31 > 0:17:32Record executive Mickie Most
0:17:32 > 0:17:35had masterminded Suzi Quatro's career
0:17:35 > 0:17:38and Suzi became a big influence on The Runaways.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42# So make a stand for your man, honey
0:17:42 > 0:17:44# Try to can the can... #
0:17:44 > 0:17:47I met up with guitarist Lita Ford.
0:17:47 > 0:17:49# Can't stay at home
0:17:49 > 0:17:51# Can't stay in school
0:17:51 > 0:17:53# Old folks say... #
0:17:53 > 0:17:54Lita looks back on her time in the band
0:17:54 > 0:17:58and remembers the call she got from LA impresario Kim Fowley,
0:17:58 > 0:18:01luring her with the promise of rock and roll
0:18:01 > 0:18:02when she was just a teenager.
0:18:02 > 0:18:04# Hello, Daddy
0:18:04 > 0:18:05# Hello, Mom
0:18:05 > 0:18:07# I'm your ch-ch-ch... #
0:18:07 > 0:18:09# Cherry bomb!
0:18:09 > 0:18:11# Hello, world
0:18:11 > 0:18:13# I'm your wild girl
0:18:13 > 0:18:15# Ch-ch-ch-ch
0:18:15 > 0:18:16# Cherry bomb! #
0:18:16 > 0:18:20Kim Fowley gave me the rap of a lifetime.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22"You're going to meet the biggest rock stars.
0:18:22 > 0:18:28"You're going to play the biggest venues and tour the world."
0:18:28 > 0:18:32And I was like, "Wow! I gotta tell my mom!"
0:18:32 > 0:18:34# Ch-ch-ch-ch
0:18:34 > 0:18:36# Cherry bomb! #
0:18:36 > 0:18:38What did Kim teach you about being in a band?
0:18:38 > 0:18:43He would teach as how to talk, how to sit, how to stand.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45"Don't wear that sweater.
0:18:45 > 0:18:47"Wear something in black that's low-cut."
0:18:47 > 0:18:49He would tell us,
0:18:49 > 0:18:52"Don't wear that. Put on some high heels."
0:18:52 > 0:18:55"Like, Kim, she's 15 years old,
0:18:55 > 0:18:57"why would you want her to wear high heels?"
0:18:57 > 0:19:00"Because, she's sexy.
0:19:00 > 0:19:02"Because she's jailbait.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05"And don't talk to me that way!
0:19:05 > 0:19:08"I'm the boss here, you don't tell me what to do."
0:19:08 > 0:19:10When you were in the studio with Kim
0:19:10 > 0:19:13and he would call you "dog meat" or "dog shit",
0:19:13 > 0:19:17- did that have any effect on your confidence?- Not really.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20To say the word, "Hey, you piece of shit," it was like...
0:19:20 > 0:19:21"Yes, Kim(!)"
0:19:21 > 0:19:24You know, I took it more with a grain of salt.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33Despite Fowley's verbal abuse,
0:19:33 > 0:19:37the band got to experience mass adulation from their teenage fans,
0:19:37 > 0:19:39as they toured Japan.
0:19:39 > 0:19:40When we got off the plane,
0:19:40 > 0:19:43there were thousands of people in the airport.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46They had to hold a human barricade back
0:19:46 > 0:19:49so the girls could walk between.
0:19:49 > 0:19:52# Let me tell you what we've been doing... #
0:19:54 > 0:19:56After the huge success in Japan,
0:19:56 > 0:19:59it seemed Fowley's rap about being the biggest band in the world
0:19:59 > 0:20:02might have paid off, until things started to go wrong.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05When did you first realise that the group might not last?
0:20:06 > 0:20:09Well, Cherie quit awfully fast.
0:20:09 > 0:20:13She was dating the assistant manager, Scott,
0:20:13 > 0:20:17and he ended up getting her pregnant at 16, which...
0:20:19 > 0:20:21..you know, being a rock band,
0:20:21 > 0:20:24it's not like you're home with Mom and Dad.
0:20:24 > 0:20:26And we didn't want to break up the band.
0:20:28 > 0:20:32Our only option was for Joan to sing.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35# Used to being a troublemaker
0:20:35 > 0:20:38# Hated homework, was a sweet heartbreaker... #
0:20:38 > 0:20:41You had the sex, drugs and rock-and-roll lifestyle
0:20:41 > 0:20:42when you were so young.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45What would you change if you could go back?
0:20:47 > 0:20:50There was a couple of us...
0:20:53 > 0:20:56..that were violated...sexually.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58That, I would change.
0:20:58 > 0:21:03Had I have known and had I have seen it coming...
0:21:05 > 0:21:08..I would have definitely done something to prevent that.
0:21:08 > 0:21:12I wasn't raped and I didn't know Jackie was.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15I hate that she was.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19I never knew until now.
0:21:19 > 0:21:21Those are the things that, actually...
0:21:23 > 0:21:24..make me sick.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28And that shouldn't have happened. Motherfuckers.
0:21:28 > 0:21:29# School days
0:21:29 > 0:21:32# I'm starting to slip I'm losing my mind... #
0:21:36 > 0:21:38..kiss
0:21:38 > 0:21:39Oscar Wilde
0:21:39 > 0:21:41Jah lives
0:21:41 > 0:21:44Mr Thorpe
0:21:44 > 0:21:47The time is now, the time is now...
0:21:47 > 0:21:48But not every girl in rock
0:21:48 > 0:21:52was suffering at the hands of a manipulative male manager.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55In 1975, an androgynous, liberated rock star
0:21:55 > 0:21:57appeared out of nowhere.
0:21:57 > 0:22:01# Surround by horses, horses, horses, horses... #
0:22:01 > 0:22:05Patti Smith changed things forever for girls in rock bands.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Whether you had grown up in CBGB's,
0:22:07 > 0:22:10or Ferryhill Working Men's Club.
0:22:18 > 0:22:21In 1976, there wasn't any punk in the Durham pit town
0:22:21 > 0:22:24where the teenage Pauline Murray lived.
0:22:24 > 0:22:26So, she formed her own band, Penetration,
0:22:26 > 0:22:29and brought punk to Ferryhill.
0:22:32 > 0:22:33# Don't dictate
0:22:33 > 0:22:35# Don't dictate
0:22:35 > 0:22:38# Don't dictate, dictate to me
0:22:38 > 0:22:39# Don't dictate
0:22:39 > 0:22:40# Don't dictate
0:22:40 > 0:22:43# Don't dictate, dictate to me... #
0:22:43 > 0:22:46What was it like, being a punk in Ferryhill in Durham?
0:22:46 > 0:22:49The general public of where we lived, I mean,
0:22:49 > 0:22:51it was a totally different culture.
0:22:51 > 0:22:53It was the workmen's club culture.
0:22:53 > 0:22:56Men were men, women were women.
0:22:56 > 0:22:59Most people didn't like to stand out,
0:22:59 > 0:23:02because they would be worried about what other people thought of them.
0:23:02 > 0:23:04A very close-knit community.
0:23:04 > 0:23:07Everyone knew what everyone was doing.
0:23:07 > 0:23:10So, when we started to go out and do things with the band,
0:23:10 > 0:23:12obviously, people would discuss it.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14And we did get chased
0:23:14 > 0:23:18or we did get a brick through our window.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20But nothing we couldn't handle.
0:23:21 > 0:23:24# Penetrating voices going through my head
0:23:24 > 0:23:27# I haven't listened to a thing they've said
0:23:27 > 0:23:30# Always they removed the answers... #
0:23:30 > 0:23:33What was the reaction in your family to the name of the band?
0:23:33 > 0:23:35They thought it was a bit of a laugh.
0:23:35 > 0:23:37Not that the neighbours did.
0:23:37 > 0:23:42You know, I remember we went to Dundee and my dad had a T-shirt,
0:23:42 > 0:23:45a home-made T-shirt that said "Penetration".
0:23:45 > 0:23:48And we got out of the car and an old lady over the road shouted,
0:23:48 > 0:23:49"Grandad punk!"
0:23:49 > 0:23:51And I think he quite liked it.
0:23:51 > 0:23:55# Time to think and ask anew
0:23:55 > 0:23:58# Is it them or is it you?
0:23:58 > 0:24:01# Let them go, set them free... #
0:24:01 > 0:24:04Did you ever feel that you were being treated differently
0:24:04 > 0:24:06by the other guys in the band because you're female?
0:24:06 > 0:24:09I actually did just feel like one of the boys.
0:24:09 > 0:24:12# It's all a fascination
0:24:12 > 0:24:15# All your imagination... #
0:24:15 > 0:24:19What were your aspirations when you got into a punk band?
0:24:19 > 0:24:22- What did you hope for?- It was about doing something creatively new
0:24:22 > 0:24:26whilst operating almost outside of the system.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28If that's at all possible.
0:24:28 > 0:24:32And we did for a little while operate outside of the system.
0:24:32 > 0:24:34# I want to know-oh-oh-oh
0:24:34 > 0:24:38# Oooooh. #
0:24:38 > 0:24:40CHEERING
0:24:45 > 0:24:48Pauline and other girls were part of punk right from the start.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51And female artists continued to fight for space in the scene,
0:24:51 > 0:24:53gradually bagging record deals.
0:24:57 > 0:25:00If Pauline found that changing attitudes
0:25:00 > 0:25:02in a small northern town was a big ask,
0:25:02 > 0:25:05you'd think that life as a punk in London might have been easier.
0:25:05 > 0:25:09But as one Londoner discovered, opposition was everywhere.
0:25:09 > 0:25:13You're a typical girl, you tried out being in a band with Sid Vicious,
0:25:13 > 0:25:17that didn't work. Then you find your musical soul-mates.
0:25:17 > 0:25:21You terrify the boys. The skinheads want to physically hurt you.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24But you've got a vision, a manifesto, in fact,
0:25:24 > 0:25:26and playing live is being on the front line.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29So, you're going to have to be absolutely fearless.
0:25:29 > 0:25:32THEY SING
0:25:35 > 0:25:37The Slits lived in a very violent time.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39You know, '76, '77.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41It was very scary on the streets.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44We had to go everywhere together as a group of three or four,
0:25:44 > 0:25:47because the way we were dressed was so alien to the times
0:25:47 > 0:25:50that men everywhere found us incredibly threatening.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52And skinhead girls and Teddy girls.
0:25:52 > 0:25:54We would be attacked physically, verbally.
0:25:54 > 0:25:58Ari got stabbed twice in the street.
0:25:58 > 0:25:59I mean, she was 15 years old.
0:25:59 > 0:26:01We were often running for our lives.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06'The infamous Slits, a much-publicised all-girl band
0:26:06 > 0:26:08'who've never actually made a record.
0:26:08 > 0:26:12'Indeed, they have refused offers from several record labels.'
0:26:13 > 0:26:16Undeterred by the violence, The Slits remained united.
0:26:16 > 0:26:18They didn't want to sell out.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21After all, punk was about doing things on their own terms.
0:26:21 > 0:26:24We had a vision. You know, we're going to change things for girls,
0:26:24 > 0:26:26we're going to change things for music.
0:26:26 > 0:26:28You know, we weren't just going and playing gigs,
0:26:28 > 0:26:32we were doing something very new. We were absolutely driven.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34We'd spent months and months discussing,
0:26:34 > 0:26:35"How should we stand on stage?"
0:26:35 > 0:26:38"Because we don't want to stand how men stand,
0:26:38 > 0:26:40"with our legs wide open and the guitar right down there
0:26:40 > 0:26:43"like we've got great big, heavy bollocks hanging down or something!"
0:26:43 > 0:26:46We even talked about not using breathy, little-girl voices,
0:26:46 > 0:26:48which a lot of women sang in back then.
0:26:48 > 0:26:49You know, I said,
0:26:49 > 0:26:52"Oh, I sing like you're shouting across a playground at a mate."
0:26:52 > 0:26:55And actually, a girl's voice isn't that different to a boy's voice
0:26:55 > 0:26:57when you're going, "Oi, John!"
0:26:59 > 0:27:02# Typical girls get upset too quickly
0:27:02 > 0:27:04# Typical girls... #
0:27:04 > 0:27:08When you imagine The Slits' audience when you're up there on stage,
0:27:08 > 0:27:09I mean, how important was it
0:27:09 > 0:27:12to you that boys were there as well as girls?
0:27:12 > 0:27:15I said, I want us to be a band that boys want to be in,
0:27:15 > 0:27:17and the gang that boys want to be in
0:27:17 > 0:27:19and wear clothes that boys want to copy.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22I mean, of course, girls, we were there for girls mostly,
0:27:22 > 0:27:26but also wanted to show guys that we were equally as cool.
0:27:26 > 0:27:31# Typical boy, that typical boy Gets that typical girl
0:27:31 > 0:27:35# That typical girl gets that typical boy. #
0:27:38 > 0:27:39If the Brits were driven,
0:27:39 > 0:27:42one girl who came out of the New York punk scene
0:27:42 > 0:27:44was a little bit more reticent.
0:27:44 > 0:27:46# You may find yourself in a beautiful house... #
0:27:47 > 0:27:50Growing up, Tina Weymouth always wanted to be a boy.
0:27:50 > 0:27:53However, she didn't particularly want to be in a band.
0:27:53 > 0:27:55It took her boyfriend, Chris Frantz,
0:27:55 > 0:27:57ages to persuade her into joining Talking Heads.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00David Byrne made her audition three times.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03Nobody played the bass, so that was her job.
0:28:03 > 0:28:07She drove them to gigs, cut their hair and gave them her last sandwich.
0:28:07 > 0:28:10However, what she describes as a sideline role
0:28:10 > 0:28:12quickly proved to be crucial.
0:28:14 > 0:28:16# ..Which is on fire
0:28:19 > 0:28:21# On fire...#
0:28:21 > 0:28:23So, tell me a bit about your early meetings
0:28:23 > 0:28:25with the band, with Talking Heads.
0:28:25 > 0:28:29Obviously, you were in a relationship with Chris at that point.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33I was. It was Chris's idea to form this band.
0:28:33 > 0:28:36It took two years for me to enter into it.
0:28:36 > 0:28:42- Why was that?- I just thought that it was too difficult. You know?
0:28:42 > 0:28:45I just thought, "I'm going to be up against a lot of flak."
0:28:45 > 0:28:47- For being the girl?- Yes.
0:28:47 > 0:28:49But Chris had another idea,
0:28:49 > 0:28:52he thought it was going to bring attention to the group.
0:28:52 > 0:28:54And it did.
0:28:54 > 0:28:55And it worked.
0:29:04 > 0:29:06Do you remember hearing from Chris
0:29:06 > 0:29:09what David thought about you joining the group?
0:29:09 > 0:29:14He said to me, he thought that women's role
0:29:14 > 0:29:18shouldn't really be in the big world
0:29:18 > 0:29:21- because it was a dangerous place for women.- He really said this?
0:29:21 > 0:29:23He really said this to me.
0:29:23 > 0:29:25# Ba ba ba ba
0:29:25 > 0:29:27# Ba ba ba ba... #
0:29:30 > 0:29:33- You had very short hair.- Yes. - Where did that look come from?
0:29:33 > 0:29:36Well, that came from David. One day he said, "You know,
0:29:36 > 0:29:40"I think it will make your eyes look bigger if you have short hair."
0:29:40 > 0:29:42So, I said, "OK," I thought,
0:29:42 > 0:29:45"Well, if it pleases him."
0:29:51 > 0:29:53We're going right on to the next number.
0:29:54 > 0:29:57Tell me about your involvement with Psycho Killer.
0:29:57 > 0:29:59David was listening to Alice Cooper
0:29:59 > 0:30:01and thought, "I can do something really rude."
0:30:01 > 0:30:03So, David said, "I need lyrics."
0:30:03 > 0:30:06And so, we brainstormed.
0:30:08 > 0:30:13I said, "Well, Hitchcock would say
0:30:13 > 0:30:18"I'm gonna kill you because you're rude, you're not polite."
0:30:18 > 0:30:21# You start a conversation and You can't even finish it
0:30:22 > 0:30:26# You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything. #
0:30:26 > 0:30:29And he had this really brilliant idea, which was,
0:30:29 > 0:30:32"I want to create a sense of schism,
0:30:32 > 0:30:35"where he changes personality
0:30:35 > 0:30:38"from being one person to being another person.
0:30:38 > 0:30:42"I think the best way to do that is change language."
0:30:42 > 0:30:45So, I wrote lyrics to that effect.
0:30:45 > 0:30:46# Oh, oh
0:30:46 > 0:30:49# Psycho killer
0:30:49 > 0:30:50# Qu'est-ce que c'est
0:30:50 > 0:30:51# Fa fa fa fa... #
0:30:51 > 0:30:54Didn't always get the pronunciation right
0:30:54 > 0:30:58but it was a good approximation and people kind of got it.
0:30:58 > 0:31:00Although I noticed today
0:31:00 > 0:31:03that when people covered the song
0:31:03 > 0:31:06they copy the mistakes!
0:31:06 > 0:31:09# Realisant mon espoir
0:31:09 > 0:31:14# Je me lance, vers la gloire, OK...#
0:31:14 > 0:31:17Kim Gordon from Sonic Youth posited this idea
0:31:17 > 0:31:19that women are drawn to the bass
0:31:19 > 0:31:24- because it is a naturally nurturing role.- Oh, please(!)
0:31:24 > 0:31:28I don't think it has anything to do with gender
0:31:28 > 0:31:32and it's one of the reasons I don't...I've always eschewed
0:31:32 > 0:31:34answering "feminist" questions.
0:31:34 > 0:31:37It's just such... It's so loaded.
0:31:37 > 0:31:41If you want to do something, just do it, don't talk about it
0:31:41 > 0:31:44and don't criticise other women.
0:31:44 > 0:31:46If they want to go out, you know,
0:31:46 > 0:31:49and swing on a wrecking ball naked, why not?
0:31:49 > 0:31:52Let them do what they want!
0:31:52 > 0:31:55We just are smart as women because
0:31:55 > 0:32:01we have our balls neatly tucked inside where they're protected.
0:32:01 > 0:32:02And that's that.
0:32:13 > 0:32:15That's a-a-a-all! Over to you!
0:32:17 > 0:32:19If David Byrne really thought
0:32:19 > 0:32:21the world was a dangerous place for women,
0:32:21 > 0:32:24he'd be aghast at the thought of our next band, Girlschool,
0:32:24 > 0:32:27who found themselves in amongst this lot.
0:32:27 > 0:32:29Heavy metal was the last male domain in music.
0:32:29 > 0:32:33But one band piqued the interest of Lemmy and joined the hard-gigging,
0:32:33 > 0:32:37hard-drinking, access-all-areas world of the monsters of rock.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52Why do you think you were drawn to metal? What was it about metal...
0:32:52 > 0:32:54Well, I grew up listening to it, you know?
0:32:54 > 0:32:57First couple of concerts I went to, Hammersmith Odeon with my mate,
0:32:57 > 0:33:00from school when we were 16, I think, something like that.
0:33:00 > 0:33:03Black Sabbath, saw Black Sabbath there,
0:33:03 > 0:33:05and Deep Purple on the Burn tour.
0:33:05 > 0:33:07Little did I know that later on in the years
0:33:07 > 0:33:09we'd actually be playing with them!
0:33:09 > 0:33:10# Come on!
0:33:13 > 0:33:15- # Nothing to lose, come on! CROWD:- Nothing to lose!
0:33:15 > 0:33:17# Nothing to lose! #
0:33:17 > 0:33:18When you first played rock clubs
0:33:18 > 0:33:21that had probably only ever seen male bands in them before,
0:33:21 > 0:33:23do you ever feel you had to win the audience over?
0:33:23 > 0:33:25I think at the beginning,
0:33:25 > 0:33:27people didn't really know what to make of us.
0:33:27 > 0:33:29You know, I think first of all they just looked at us
0:33:29 > 0:33:32as if to say, "What the hell is going on here?" You know?
0:33:32 > 0:33:33- Did you get any heckles? - Oh, God, yeah,
0:33:33 > 0:33:36it used to always be, "Get your tits out!" basically, you know?
0:33:36 > 0:33:38And we used to say, "Get yours out first!"
0:33:38 > 0:33:41# Oh, we're the barmy Girlschool army
0:33:41 > 0:33:42# La-la-la-la-la! #
0:33:42 > 0:33:44Shut up!
0:33:45 > 0:33:48After learning their trade playing sweaty rock clubs,
0:33:48 > 0:33:52Girlschool received the ultimate metal seal of approval.
0:33:52 > 0:33:54This little band called Motorhead
0:33:54 > 0:33:57happened to be looking for a support band.
0:33:57 > 0:33:58And Lemmy heard the single
0:33:58 > 0:34:01and he came down to rehearsal to see if we could actually play.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03And, of course, then, we...
0:34:03 > 0:34:07They invited us on their first major British tour.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14# You can tell by the look in the eye
0:34:14 > 0:34:16# The feeling comes as no surprise. #
0:34:16 > 0:34:19We'd never been on a tour like it.
0:34:19 > 0:34:21So, we didn't really know what to expect.
0:34:21 > 0:34:24We shared a bus with Motorhead, as well, on the first tour.
0:34:24 > 0:34:26So, of course, we hardly even knew 'em.
0:34:26 > 0:34:29First of all, when we saw pictures before we actually met them
0:34:29 > 0:34:33we were going, "What the hell?" You know? Petrified.
0:34:33 > 0:34:36# Break down, b-b-break down
0:34:36 > 0:34:37# Break down
0:34:37 > 0:34:41# Break down, b-b-break down
0:34:41 > 0:34:42# You got me, break down. #
0:34:42 > 0:34:45On tour with Motorhead, were you under pressure
0:34:45 > 0:34:48to party as hard as them because you had to keep your end up?
0:34:48 > 0:34:50We didn't find any pressure whatsoever.
0:34:50 > 0:34:53There was no mention of cups of tea or anything like that,
0:34:53 > 0:34:55basically they used to bring us in crates of Special Brew.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01# Please don't touch me, baby, cos I'm shaking so much
0:35:01 > 0:35:03# Please don't touch me, baby, cos I'm shaking so much...#
0:35:03 > 0:35:05So tell me about Please Don't Touch.
0:35:05 > 0:35:07Vic Maile, our producer, basically.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10And then started to work with Motorhead, as well.
0:35:10 > 0:35:12And he's the one who came up with the idea, he said,
0:35:12 > 0:35:15"Why don't you two get together to do Please Don't Touch?"
0:35:15 > 0:35:17# Please, please don't touch
0:35:17 > 0:35:20# I shake so much
0:35:20 > 0:35:22# Please don't touch
0:35:22 > 0:35:26# I shake so much. #
0:35:26 > 0:35:28It went straight to number five.
0:35:28 > 0:35:31That was, we've still got the silver, silver record.
0:35:31 > 0:35:34I mean, it sold a quarter of a million and went to number five.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36That was a really exciting time.
0:35:36 > 0:35:38I mean, the first time we went on Top Of The Pops, it was massive!
0:35:40 > 0:35:41# ..I shake so much
0:35:41 > 0:35:45# Please, please, don't touch... #
0:35:45 > 0:35:47Were you seen as dangerous girls?
0:35:47 > 0:35:50One American tour, on the back of the T-shirts, it said,
0:35:50 > 0:35:52"The Lock-Up-Your-Sons Tour",
0:35:52 > 0:35:54which we thought was absolutely brilliant. So...
0:35:54 > 0:35:58- All these innocent young boys coming to see you...- Yeah, yeah, exactly!
0:35:58 > 0:35:59- ..changed forever.- Yeah. I hope so!
0:36:03 > 0:36:06CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:36:11 > 0:36:13Imagine being at a Joy Division gig
0:36:13 > 0:36:16and being asked to stand in for Ian Curtis on stage.
0:36:21 > 0:36:24Then joining the remaining members of the band in their new incarnation.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28You're not the frontwoman, you don't get to sing and dance around,
0:36:28 > 0:36:32but gradually you find yourself in charge of the technicals.
0:36:38 > 0:36:42When Ian died, the manager, Rob,
0:36:42 > 0:36:45he said, um, to Stephen
0:36:45 > 0:36:49and the rest of the group, "What do you think about Gillian joining?"
0:36:49 > 0:36:51Because you can never replace Ian
0:36:51 > 0:36:53and they didn't want another singer, so,
0:36:53 > 0:36:57they decided they needed one person to play keyboards and guitar.
0:37:02 > 0:37:04Rob was a bit strange.
0:37:04 > 0:37:06The first thing he said was,
0:37:06 > 0:37:09"Right, you've got to learn how to tune up a guitar."
0:37:09 > 0:37:12And I'm like, "Oh, God, I'll have to."
0:37:12 > 0:37:14And then I didn't realise till a month later,
0:37:14 > 0:37:16HE couldn't even tune a guitar.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26Tell me about your own creative role in the group,
0:37:26 > 0:37:27and how that emerged over time.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30I was in charge of all the equipment,
0:37:30 > 0:37:32all the keyboards,
0:37:32 > 0:37:36and starting all the sequencers.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39# Up, down, turn around Please don't let me hit the ground
0:37:39 > 0:37:43# Tonight, I think I'll walk alone I'll find my soul as I go home... #
0:37:43 > 0:37:45Because you were programming sequencers,
0:37:45 > 0:37:48you had to know the note names,
0:37:48 > 0:37:50cos they all played by ear.
0:37:50 > 0:37:53Bernard used to say, "Oh, what note do you think will go in there?"
0:37:53 > 0:37:56And I'm like, "Oh, it's an A sharp," and he'd be like, "Oh, right."
0:37:58 > 0:38:05MUSIC: Blue Monday by New Order
0:38:06 > 0:38:09What are your memories of Top Of The Pops?
0:38:09 > 0:38:12We were in our "We want to play everything live" phase.
0:38:12 > 0:38:13Top Of The Pops say,
0:38:13 > 0:38:17"We don't do anything live. Everybody's got to mime."
0:38:17 > 0:38:19"Well, no, we don't want to mime!"
0:38:19 > 0:38:22So, that caused a big uproar.
0:38:22 > 0:38:29# How does it feel When you treat me like you do
0:38:29 > 0:38:35# And you've laid your hands upon me And told me who you are... #
0:38:35 > 0:38:39Another thing about Top Of The Pops, they like you to move.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42And as soon as they saw me, especially,
0:38:42 > 0:38:46I had to start it all, and then just stand there waiting for my cue.
0:38:46 > 0:38:48They couldn't get their head round that.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51- It was like, "Oh, dear, we've got problems, they don't move!" - SHE LAUGHS
0:38:51 > 0:38:58MUSIC: Blue Monday by New Order
0:39:00 > 0:39:03But their lack of movement didn't deter the Football Association,
0:39:03 > 0:39:07who needed a song for England's 1990 World Cup campaign,
0:39:07 > 0:39:09and it was Gillian who obliged.
0:39:09 > 0:39:15World In Motion, such a famously blokey song, how did that come about?
0:39:15 > 0:39:19We'd worked on a Janet Street-Porter production
0:39:19 > 0:39:21that was called Reportage.
0:39:21 > 0:39:25I wrote the one at the end with the credits, and she'd said,
0:39:25 > 0:39:28"Well, the Reportage piece could be the start
0:39:28 > 0:39:30"of the World In Motion song."
0:39:33 > 0:39:39MUSIC: World In Motion by New Order
0:39:41 > 0:39:43They weren't really into football, the rest of New Order,
0:39:43 > 0:39:47there was only me and my dad, we used to watch World Cup games
0:39:47 > 0:39:51together, so I was really into football, so it was like, "Yeah!"
0:39:51 > 0:39:54- My dad was so proud of me! Yeah! - SHE LAUGHS
0:39:54 > 0:39:56And we met them in the studio,
0:39:56 > 0:40:00and Paul Gascoigne came in and went, "Eh, that's a big organ, in't it?"
0:40:00 > 0:40:01You know, the mixing desk.
0:40:01 > 0:40:09# Love's got the world in motion And I know what we can do... #
0:40:09 > 0:40:13World In Motion became New Order's only number one hit in the UK.
0:40:13 > 0:40:16# ..And I can't believe it's true.. #
0:40:16 > 0:40:19Gillian Gilbert and Stephen Morris had been in a relationship
0:40:19 > 0:40:22for years, proving sometimes, rock-and-roll couples can work.
0:40:22 > 0:40:27But can you expect such a harmonious ride when you marry Mark E Smith?
0:40:27 > 0:40:32What really went on there? We only have this excerpt.
0:40:32 > 0:40:37LA-born art student and Anglophile indie freak Laura Elisse Salenger
0:40:37 > 0:40:40got talking to Mark E Smith one night after a gig.
0:40:40 > 0:40:44Within six months, she was living in Prestwich, and a member of The Fall.
0:40:44 > 0:40:48MUSIC: Cruiser's Creek by The Fall
0:40:48 > 0:40:51Hello, Brix Smith, I'm Kate.
0:40:52 > 0:40:57- Oh, look at these guys!- That's Pixie. - Pixie and Gladys?- Yeah.
0:40:57 > 0:41:01# There's a party going down around here
0:41:01 > 0:41:03# Cruiser's Creek now... #
0:41:03 > 0:41:07So, tell me how you found out about The Fall and how you became a member.
0:41:07 > 0:41:11We saw in the Chicago Reader that The Fall were coming to play.
0:41:11 > 0:41:12I was waiting in line to get beer,
0:41:12 > 0:41:14and as I got my beer and I turned around,
0:41:14 > 0:41:17bam, smacked into the singer.
0:41:17 > 0:41:19He had a bottle of beer in each hand
0:41:19 > 0:41:21and a line of white powder coming down his nose,
0:41:21 > 0:41:24which should have been a red flag, but hey, rock and roll!
0:41:26 > 0:41:28# I'm totally wired
0:41:28 > 0:41:30# T-T-T-Totally wired... #
0:41:30 > 0:41:33He said, "You know, we were invited to a party afterwards,
0:41:33 > 0:41:36"do you want to come?" and I said, "Sure!"
0:41:36 > 0:41:39And we got in the car and he said to me, "What do you do?"
0:41:39 > 0:41:40and I said, "I'm in a band,"
0:41:40 > 0:41:43and he said, "Oh, do you have any tapes of your music?"
0:41:43 > 0:41:46And I put the tape in, and he said, "Who wrote these songs?"
0:41:46 > 0:41:51and I said, "I did," and he said, "You're a fucking genius".
0:41:51 > 0:41:55And, basically, it was sort of decided over the next couple of days
0:41:55 > 0:41:59that he would bring me over to England to help me
0:41:59 > 0:42:03get a solo record deal and sort of mastermind it and be my Svengali.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09Mark E Smith had other ideas, and thought his new-found genius
0:42:09 > 0:42:11would make a good addition to The Fall,
0:42:11 > 0:42:15so he wooed Brix to the delights of Manchester.
0:42:15 > 0:42:17When I landed, I was shocked.
0:42:17 > 0:42:23Driving from the train station, I... It was just...so heinous.
0:42:23 > 0:42:28And Mark was so excited, like, he is, like, loves Manchester.
0:42:28 > 0:42:31He showed me the must-see sights.
0:42:31 > 0:42:35So, he was like, "Look, Brixie, over there's Boddingtons' Brewery!"
0:42:35 > 0:42:38And I'm like "Yeah, great(!)" He goes, "That's Strangeways prison!"
0:42:38 > 0:42:40I'm like, "God...!"
0:42:40 > 0:42:43# Purchased a pair of flabby wings
0:42:43 > 0:42:46# I took to doing some hovering... #
0:42:46 > 0:42:51But, saying that, I was where I wanted to be,
0:42:51 > 0:42:54I was doing what I wanted to do, and I was with a man that I loved.
0:42:54 > 0:42:56# Pick the fleas, Mister
0:42:56 > 0:42:58# Eat y'self fitter... #
0:42:58 > 0:43:01Three months later, they were Mr and Mrs Smith,
0:43:01 > 0:43:05and Brix was now writing songs and a fully fledged member of The Fall.
0:43:05 > 0:43:12MUSIC: 2x4 by The Fall
0:43:12 > 0:43:16Can you explain what you brought to The Fall?
0:43:16 > 0:43:20What I did was I just wove a bit of light into their dark,
0:43:20 > 0:43:24which, sonically, people could hear,
0:43:24 > 0:43:26like, aurally, and it would stay in their head.
0:43:26 > 0:43:29MUSIC: 2x4 by The Fall
0:43:32 > 0:43:36Did the TV appearances sort of escalate once you joined the group?
0:43:36 > 0:43:39Yeah. When we got on TV, when we did videos,
0:43:39 > 0:43:43I was on the cover of magazines, we were all on the cover. Um...
0:43:43 > 0:43:45I felt great about this.
0:43:45 > 0:43:48I think Mark was also extremely happy about it.
0:43:48 > 0:43:51# Victoria
0:43:51 > 0:43:55# Victoria... #
0:43:55 > 0:43:59Between 1983 and 1996, Brix wrote songs
0:43:59 > 0:44:01and featured on over seven albums for The Fall.
0:44:01 > 0:44:04What would you say the most difficult thing on a day-to-day level
0:44:04 > 0:44:06about being in a band with your other half was?
0:44:07 > 0:44:12I don't know. I mean, he's not the easiest guy, personally,
0:44:12 > 0:44:15but it was great to be kind of a double act, in a way,
0:44:15 > 0:44:16because we had each other to bounce off,
0:44:16 > 0:44:18and because we're so polar opposite,
0:44:18 > 0:44:22it was fascinating to everybody how we could be a couple.
0:44:22 > 0:44:23# Cruiser's Creek! #
0:44:27 > 0:44:30In the late '80s, the American charts were filled with heavy metal bands,
0:44:30 > 0:44:34and women were often the spandexed adornments.
0:44:34 > 0:44:37# Girls, girls, girls... #
0:44:37 > 0:44:39But there was an alternative.
0:44:48 > 0:44:51Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth was to become the godmother of grunge,
0:44:51 > 0:44:55inspiring a whole generation of girls in bands.
0:44:55 > 0:44:57Once upon a time, there were two sisters
0:44:57 > 0:45:02raised on a diet of hair metal and The Sound Of Music in Dayton, Ohio.
0:45:02 > 0:45:03One joined the Pixies.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07# This monkey's gone to heaven... #
0:45:07 > 0:45:11The other one became a programme analyst for a defence contractor.
0:45:11 > 0:45:14When Kim Deal wanted to start a new band, she gave her sister,
0:45:14 > 0:45:17Kelley, a call, even though Kelley couldn't play guitar.
0:45:17 > 0:45:19Thus, The Breeders were born.
0:45:19 > 0:45:22What's it like trying to penetrate the strange creative world
0:45:22 > 0:45:25of identical twin sisters?
0:45:30 > 0:45:33I always wanted to be in a band and play music with people.
0:45:33 > 0:45:36Being in Dayton and being a girl...
0:45:36 > 0:45:39I'm trying to think of anybody in Dayton at that time that
0:45:39 > 0:45:43I can remember, that did anything other than sing,
0:45:43 > 0:45:47or like, maybe played a keyboard, or played...
0:45:48 > 0:45:49..tambourine or something.
0:45:54 > 0:45:57How was it for you working in a band with two sisters?
0:45:57 > 0:46:02I found it kind of difficult, actually, in the beginning.
0:46:02 > 0:46:03Not only because I was like,
0:46:03 > 0:46:07"Who is this person who's joined the band who can't play anything?"
0:46:07 > 0:46:09And then second of all, because they do know each other
0:46:09 > 0:46:14so very well, and sometimes, the gloves are off.
0:46:14 > 0:46:18- Is it fisticuffs?- No...- God, I wish! - It's just...- Wouldn't that be great?
0:46:18 > 0:46:21It's very raw and it's very, like, "Oh, my God,
0:46:21 > 0:46:24"how can they be like this with each other?"
0:46:24 > 0:46:28And then the next minute, everything seems like it's fine.
0:46:28 > 0:46:32MUSIC: Cannonball by The Breeders
0:46:32 > 0:46:36# Spitting in a wishing well
0:46:36 > 0:46:39# Blown to hell, crash
0:46:39 > 0:46:40# I'm the last splash... #
0:46:40 > 0:46:43Tell me the best thing about being in a band with your sister.
0:46:43 > 0:46:46Well, musically, there's a lot of short cuts.
0:46:46 > 0:46:48"Pretend like you're going into McGuffy's House of Draft, OK,
0:46:48 > 0:46:51"and you know the smell of the beer there, and that...
0:46:51 > 0:46:55"OK, remember that one bathroom? OK, play it like that."
0:46:56 > 0:46:59# In the shade
0:47:00 > 0:47:03# In the shade... #
0:47:03 > 0:47:07# With the lights out it's less dangerous... #
0:47:07 > 0:47:11As grunge broke and Nirvana led the way, Kurt Cobain said
0:47:11 > 0:47:15The Breeders' debut album, Pod, had been a huge influence on him.
0:47:15 > 0:47:18All the media attention, it was about...
0:47:18 > 0:47:20- you know, alternative music and Nirvana.- Yeah.
0:47:20 > 0:47:24And the whole changeover from a certain type of music
0:47:24 > 0:47:27to another type of music, I think, and we were in the middle of that.
0:47:27 > 0:47:29Stuff that had been kind of obscure
0:47:29 > 0:47:35and not particularly well-known, except for by...
0:47:35 > 0:47:39- you know, aficionados. - You know, trading tapes...
0:47:39 > 0:47:42All of a sudden, that became what was mainstream.
0:47:42 > 0:47:46# Want you Coocoo cannonball
0:47:46 > 0:47:49# Want you Coocoo cannonball
0:47:49 > 0:47:53In 1993, The Breeders were on a high.
0:47:53 > 0:47:56The song Cannonball was named Melody Maker's single of the year.
0:47:56 > 0:48:00The video was directed by Spike Jonze and Kim Gordon herself.
0:48:00 > 0:48:03How did the media treat you for being a mostly female band?
0:48:03 > 0:48:08We definitely got lumped in with...erm...
0:48:08 > 0:48:12It became a bit of a thing, where, you know, a whole list of people
0:48:12 > 0:48:15would be name-checked, as if it was some "movement".
0:48:15 > 0:48:18# When we pretend that we're dead... #
0:48:18 > 0:48:22The Breeders were part of a new shift of girl-fronted bands.
0:48:22 > 0:48:24Grunge and the underground punk scene, Riot Grrrl,
0:48:24 > 0:48:28gave girls a new freedom and a bigger say in alternative music.
0:48:28 > 0:48:32To be talked about in the media as being part of that,
0:48:32 > 0:48:35and name-checked as, you know, being a girl band and whatever,
0:48:35 > 0:48:41it never really bothered me, because I subscribed to the Oscar Wilde
0:48:41 > 0:48:44"the only thing worse than being talked about
0:48:44 > 0:48:46"is not being talked about."
0:48:46 > 0:48:51# I'm just looking for one divine hammer... #
0:48:51 > 0:48:54I don't think I'd want to be in a band with all guys.
0:48:54 > 0:48:57- I would find that so boring. - Why would that be boring?
0:48:57 > 0:49:00Oh, God... Cos guys are boring!
0:49:00 > 0:49:03# One divine hammer
0:49:03 > 0:49:07# One divine hammer. #
0:49:12 > 0:49:15The Breeders and others were finding the world of rock
0:49:15 > 0:49:17more accessible to girls.
0:49:17 > 0:49:19British indie had also been accommodating,
0:49:19 > 0:49:23and it offered a home from home for two girls from London.
0:49:23 > 0:49:26# My eyes to heaven
0:49:26 > 0:49:29# Pink cloud sits sky-high... #
0:49:29 > 0:49:34When I was about 12,
0:49:34 > 0:49:39my mum went to live in America, I lived with my dad,
0:49:39 > 0:49:44he wasn't around very much, I'd moved schools, I was quite lonely.
0:49:44 > 0:49:48That was the point when music became, like, a real obsession.
0:49:50 > 0:49:55Music became my sort of community, and so, when I met Emma,
0:49:55 > 0:49:59who was also in Lush, we were quite similar in that way, actually,
0:49:59 > 0:50:01so we started going to gigs together,
0:50:01 > 0:50:04and then suddenly being in a band is, like, quite easy,
0:50:04 > 0:50:07actually, because everyone's in a band.
0:50:07 > 0:50:10Most of them are awful, so you think, "Well, I can do that."
0:50:10 > 0:50:15# Hand on my heart
0:50:15 > 0:50:17# And I... #
0:50:17 > 0:50:22When we started, it was just writing music and playing it live,
0:50:22 > 0:50:24and we didn't really think that much about the sound.
0:50:24 > 0:50:28In fact, we had no technical knowledge about guitars
0:50:28 > 0:50:30or anything, and because we weren't confident musicians,
0:50:30 > 0:50:34because we weren't confident singers, that, sort of,
0:50:34 > 0:50:38effects and swirliness, it cloaks a lot.
0:50:38 > 0:50:39It really does!
0:50:39 > 0:50:44# Ah, oh... #
0:50:45 > 0:50:50In 1992, Perry Farrell from Jane's Addiction liked their sound so much
0:50:50 > 0:50:52that Lush found themselves catapulted
0:50:52 > 0:50:54into America's alternative rock scene,
0:50:54 > 0:50:56when they were asked to play at Lollapalooza
0:50:56 > 0:50:58alongside the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
0:50:58 > 0:51:02So, we got onto this bill, which was just ridiculous,
0:51:02 > 0:51:04and because we were the underdogs
0:51:04 > 0:51:07and we had absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain,
0:51:07 > 0:51:11we had a really good time, actually, and we really enjoyed it.
0:51:11 > 0:51:17But it was, you know, introduction to big American rock.
0:51:17 > 0:51:19# What I've got you've got to give it to your mamma... #
0:51:19 > 0:51:21A few years later,
0:51:21 > 0:51:24Miki took her experience of meeting the Chili Peppers'
0:51:24 > 0:51:26red-blooded Anthony Kiedis at Lollapalooza,
0:51:26 > 0:51:30and used it as inspiration for Lush's hit Ladykillers.
0:51:30 > 0:51:32# Hey, you, the muscles and the long hair
0:51:32 > 0:51:36# Telling me that women are superior to men
0:51:36 > 0:51:38# Most guys just don't appreciate this
0:51:38 > 0:51:42# You just try convincing me you're better than them... #
0:51:42 > 0:51:45Loads of people at the time that I wrote Ladykillers,
0:51:45 > 0:51:46when it came out, they were like,
0:51:46 > 0:51:49"Oh, it's really sexist towards men!
0:51:49 > 0:51:50"And, you know, we're just...
0:51:50 > 0:51:53"if we give women attention we're just trying to chat women up."
0:51:53 > 0:51:56I don't mind flirting with people,
0:51:56 > 0:51:58I just don't like being sleazed.
0:51:58 > 0:51:59Watch this lot,
0:51:59 > 0:52:02I once tried to get off with the lead singer after a Pulp concert.
0:52:02 > 0:52:04Chatted her up a bit, she gave me her phone number,
0:52:04 > 0:52:06when I rang it, it was a pizza delivery place.
0:52:06 > 0:52:09So, I ordered an extra topping and never saw her again.
0:52:09 > 0:52:12Till tonight, that is. Have a good look, this is Lush.
0:52:12 > 0:52:13CHEERING
0:52:13 > 0:52:18# Single girl, I don't wanna be a single girl... #
0:52:18 > 0:52:21In 1996, Lush found themselves described in the press
0:52:21 > 0:52:24as a Britpop band, and surrounded by new lads to boot.
0:52:25 > 0:52:31# I live my life in the city There's no easy way out... #
0:52:31 > 0:52:34I didn't really like the Britpop thing,
0:52:34 > 0:52:37and I didn't like the association. To me, the landscape changed.
0:52:37 > 0:52:41It was about being a bloke, it was about having swagger,
0:52:41 > 0:52:43it was about "larging it".
0:52:43 > 0:52:45# Looking for Girls who are boys
0:52:45 > 0:52:47# Who like boys to be girls... #
0:52:47 > 0:52:52Don't get me wrong, I have danced my arse off to Girls And Boys by Blur,
0:52:52 > 0:52:55you know, it's fun, but I just felt excluded.
0:52:55 > 0:52:57There was a lot of nice people,
0:52:57 > 0:53:00but some of them were dickheads and arseholes.
0:53:00 > 0:53:03Did you ever get any hassle from the male Britpop bands?
0:53:03 > 0:53:06I remember Alex from Blur...
0:53:06 > 0:53:10sinking his teeth into my arse.
0:53:10 > 0:53:12And he thought it was hilarious,
0:53:12 > 0:53:14and he thought I'd be really flattered,
0:53:14 > 0:53:17and this is what I mean about the change.
0:53:17 > 0:53:20Suddenly it seemed OK to relate to women in that way.
0:53:25 > 0:53:28In the age of the lads' mag, the band soon discovered
0:53:28 > 0:53:31that the media wanted more from them than just music.
0:53:31 > 0:53:33We had a few experiences with photographers,
0:53:33 > 0:53:35and I remember turning up,
0:53:35 > 0:53:41and there was a sort of rail of, you know, stuff for us to wear, and...
0:53:41 > 0:53:42erm...
0:53:42 > 0:53:45I was honestly dressed in a skirt
0:53:45 > 0:53:48that was like a football scarf or something,
0:53:48 > 0:53:51I mean, it barely covered my arse.
0:53:51 > 0:53:52And the photographer was going,
0:53:52 > 0:53:55"Right, so if you could just turn around and sort of,
0:53:55 > 0:53:56"you know, just bend over and sort of,
0:53:56 > 0:53:58"if you just open your legs a bit and kind of..."
0:53:58 > 0:54:01And I was like...
0:54:01 > 0:54:04"Fuck!" Like, absolutely no way.
0:54:04 > 0:54:07# Shake, baby, shake
0:54:07 > 0:54:12# You know I can fit you in my arms... #
0:54:12 > 0:54:1720 years after laddism became a dirty word, Lush have decided to reform.
0:54:17 > 0:54:20It's a great thing to play a gig, it's so exciting.
0:54:20 > 0:54:22You create something in a room, you know,
0:54:22 > 0:54:25you create a real HAPPENING, it's an event.
0:54:25 > 0:54:28And that, I think, you know, was visceral.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31The rest of it, the kind of, you know, the...
0:54:31 > 0:54:35Hanging out with whoever it is, you know, you can keep that!
0:54:35 > 0:54:38# Single girl
0:54:38 > 0:54:41# I just wanna be a single... #
0:54:41 > 0:54:44Miki from Lush may have loved the creativity of band life,
0:54:44 > 0:54:46although in the past few years,
0:54:46 > 0:54:49it's female solo artists who have dominated the charts.
0:54:49 > 0:54:50# ..For me
0:54:50 > 0:54:52# Who run the world? Girls... #
0:54:52 > 0:54:54But the bands are still out there.
0:54:54 > 0:54:57Perhaps, having deconstructed everything,
0:54:57 > 0:55:02we should be thinking about putting everything back together.
0:55:03 > 0:55:0750 years after Carol Kaye had made Frank Sinatra do a double-take,
0:55:07 > 0:55:11an explosive foursome from London still found themselves answering
0:55:11 > 0:55:15the age-old line of inquiry, "What's it like being a girl in a band?"
0:55:15 > 0:55:18Which is a pretty dumb question to ask Savages.
0:55:18 > 0:55:23# Speaking words to the blind... #
0:55:23 > 0:55:27When people ask, "How does it feel to be a woman in a band?"
0:55:27 > 0:55:34I'm like, "OK, how does it feel to be a woman walking up the stairs?
0:55:34 > 0:55:36"How does it feel to be a woman eating a sandwich?"
0:55:36 > 0:55:38You see, like, I think it's just absurd.
0:55:38 > 0:55:42# ..Who truly saw your soul
0:55:42 > 0:55:44# I'm the one... #
0:55:44 > 0:55:47Each one of us in the band were raised by our parents
0:55:47 > 0:55:49thinking we could do anything.
0:55:49 > 0:55:53Like, it wasn't special that Fay was playing the drums,
0:55:53 > 0:55:56or Gemma was going to play guitar.
0:56:02 > 0:56:03Have you ever had to deal with,
0:56:03 > 0:56:06like, the classic male hecklers in the audience?
0:56:06 > 0:56:09Yeah, it happened in Bridlington.
0:56:09 > 0:56:12For some reason, the crowd was really crazy that night.
0:56:12 > 0:56:15# Oh, God, I wanna get rid of it
0:56:15 > 0:56:18# Oh, God, I wanna get Get rid of it... #
0:56:19 > 0:56:22At some point in between two songs, they started shouting,
0:56:22 > 0:56:25"Get your tits out for the lads."
0:56:25 > 0:56:28I thought they were chanting something cool, like,
0:56:28 > 0:56:29something good,
0:56:29 > 0:56:31and I turned to Fay, the drummer, and I was like, "Hey!"
0:56:31 > 0:56:33She was like...
0:56:33 > 0:56:38"No! This is not cool!" And I didn't get it until the end of the show.
0:56:38 > 0:56:40But the girls got it, and they were really angry.
0:56:40 > 0:56:42But that was the only time it happened.
0:56:42 > 0:56:44So, maybe it's just Bridlington.
0:56:44 > 0:56:47# City's full of
0:56:47 > 0:56:50# City's full of... #
0:56:50 > 0:56:53It may have been a solo heckler in Bridlington,
0:56:53 > 0:56:55but 20 years after The Breeders and Lush
0:56:55 > 0:56:58found themselves getting headlines for being girls in rock bands,
0:56:58 > 0:57:00the New York Times ran an article
0:57:00 > 0:57:05suggesting that, even in 2015, girls in bands are an exotic sight.
0:57:05 > 0:57:08The New York Times, they wrote a really good article about us,
0:57:08 > 0:57:12but the title was "Girls At Work".
0:57:12 > 0:57:15And under the picture, it was written,
0:57:15 > 0:57:19"Savages, a female rock band from London."
0:57:21 > 0:57:24A fan took a picture of that little caption,
0:57:24 > 0:57:27and they crossed out the word "female".
0:57:27 > 0:57:30It got a bit mental, like, all our fans retweeted it,
0:57:30 > 0:57:35then the next day, when you went back to the New York Times website,
0:57:35 > 0:57:36they had changed the title.
0:57:36 > 0:57:40We're so used to that macho kind of vision,
0:57:40 > 0:57:44and that's just normal, that's just how it is.
0:57:44 > 0:57:49As soon you start pointing out that it's not right, that's how,
0:57:49 > 0:57:51you know, things can start to change.
0:57:51 > 0:57:54# City's full of
0:57:54 > 0:57:57# Sissy pretty love, yeah. #
0:58:00 > 0:58:02Looking back over the decades,
0:58:02 > 0:58:05has there been any change for a girl in a band?
0:58:08 > 0:58:12I think there must have been a change, but I think it's a bit slow.
0:58:12 > 0:58:16What would you like to see in 10, 20 years' time?
0:58:16 > 0:58:18I would like...
0:58:18 > 0:58:20that when there's a woman
0:58:20 > 0:58:25that starts to live a little bit louder than the others,
0:58:25 > 0:58:28that she's not labelled feminist.
0:58:30 > 0:58:33CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:58:33 > 0:58:35So, you've found yourself in a band.
0:58:35 > 0:58:37You might be playing bass to cover the bills,
0:58:37 > 0:58:39you could be escaping suburbia
0:58:39 > 0:58:41by going out on the road for the first time,
0:58:41 > 0:58:45or you could be teaming up with your sibling or your other half
0:58:45 > 0:58:48and allowing that relationship to play out through music.
0:58:48 > 0:58:51They say it's different for girls. What does that even mean?
0:58:51 > 0:58:54One thing's clear, we're obsessed with music,
0:58:54 > 0:58:56but sometimes you will find there's more to life
0:58:56 > 0:58:59than being just the girl in the band.
0:58:59 > 0:59:01# Let me tell you what we been doing
0:59:01 > 0:59:05# Neon angels on the road to ruin
0:59:05 > 0:59:07# Let me tell you what we been doing
0:59:07 > 0:59:11# Neon angels on the road to ruin
0:59:11 > 0:59:13# Let me tell you what we been doing
0:59:13 > 0:59:19# Neon angels on the road... #