MICHAEL JACKSON's Journey from Motown to Off the Wall

0:00:02 > 0:00:06This programme contains some strong language

0:00:09 > 0:00:12CHEERING

0:00:12 > 0:00:13MICHAEL LAUGHS

0:00:14 > 0:00:15Woo!

0:00:15 > 0:00:17This is really true.

0:00:17 > 0:00:20A lot of people say, "You just made it up to have something to say."

0:00:20 > 0:00:23But one day our television broke down

0:00:23 > 0:00:25and we didn't have anything, really, to do,

0:00:25 > 0:00:27like in the morning times.

0:00:27 > 0:00:30So, what we started doing, we started singing,

0:00:30 > 0:00:33my mother, my brothers,

0:00:33 > 0:00:35and we started making harmony.

0:00:35 > 0:00:37Next thing we know, we were singing in talent shows

0:00:37 > 0:00:39and winning awards and trophies.

0:00:39 > 0:00:41That's how it got started.

0:00:42 > 0:00:45# You went to school to learn, girl

0:00:45 > 0:00:47# Things you never, never knew before

0:00:47 > 0:00:50# Like I before E except after C

0:00:50 > 0:00:51# And why two plus two makes four

0:00:51 > 0:00:53# Na-na-na

0:00:53 > 0:00:55- # I'm gonna teach you - Teach you, teach you

0:00:55 > 0:00:57- # All about love, yeah - All about love

0:00:57 > 0:00:59# Sit yourself down, take a seat

0:00:59 > 0:01:01# All you gotta do is repeat after me

0:01:01 > 0:01:03# A, B, C

0:01:03 > 0:01:05# Easy as one, two, three

0:01:05 > 0:01:07# Simple as do re mi

0:01:07 > 0:01:09# A, B, C

0:01:09 > 0:01:10- # One, two, three - Baby, you and me, girl. #

0:01:10 > 0:01:12'Hey, hey, hey, stop the film!

0:01:12 > 0:01:14'Hey, stop the film, please!

0:01:14 > 0:01:16'Hey, stop the film! Come on!

0:01:16 > 0:01:17CHEERING 'Thank you.'

0:01:17 > 0:01:20They want to hear I Want You Back and ABC and The Love You Save...

0:01:20 > 0:01:23- Right.- ..and Dancing Machine, Sugar Daddy, I'll Be There,

0:01:23 > 0:01:25Got To Be There, Rockin' Robin.

0:01:25 > 0:01:27- You want to hear Daddy's Home? - CHEERING

0:01:27 > 0:01:30Do you want to hear all the old stuff?

0:01:30 > 0:01:32The number one reason I don't want to do the old stuff,

0:01:32 > 0:01:34number one - it's old! OK?

0:01:34 > 0:01:36Number two - the choreography is old!

0:01:38 > 0:01:40Jackie's old!

0:01:40 > 0:01:42CHEERING

0:01:42 > 0:01:45- Wait a minute, Michael. - Do you care about that?

0:01:45 > 0:01:46Do you care?

0:01:46 > 0:01:47I'll tell you what...

0:01:49 > 0:01:51..I'll do the old stuff for you, OK?

0:01:51 > 0:01:52CHEERING

0:01:52 > 0:01:55But I'm doing it for you, I'm not doing it for them.

0:01:55 > 0:01:56I'm doing it for you!

0:01:58 > 0:02:03MUSIC: I Want You Back by The Jackson 5

0:02:26 > 0:02:30# When I had you to myself I didn't want you around

0:02:30 > 0:02:35# Those pretty faces always made you stand out in a crowd... #

0:02:35 > 0:02:40Their first four songs broke historical records

0:02:40 > 0:02:44because they all went to number one, the very first four songs

0:02:44 > 0:02:46they ever recorded,

0:02:46 > 0:02:48- which was I Want You Back... - ABC, The Love You Save...

0:02:48 > 0:02:50..and I'll Be There.

0:02:50 > 0:02:54What happened after that was we went from being able to go anywhere,

0:02:54 > 0:02:57get a hamburger, go to a movie, you know, go shopping,

0:02:57 > 0:02:59to being able to go nowhere.

0:02:59 > 0:03:02They became so successful so quickly

0:03:02 > 0:03:05that none of us were prepared for it.

0:03:05 > 0:03:07# Ooh, ooh, baby

0:03:07 > 0:03:09- # I want you back - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

0:03:09 > 0:03:11# I want you back... #

0:03:11 > 0:03:14He used to sing songs with a lot of feeling and he would sing them

0:03:14 > 0:03:16with a lot of feeling and a lot of moving

0:03:16 > 0:03:17like he had been here before.

0:03:17 > 0:03:19Like he had lived before.

0:03:19 > 0:03:25Vocally, he was just leaps and bounds ahead of

0:03:25 > 0:03:27what anybody could teach him.

0:03:27 > 0:03:28He came here knowing that stuff.

0:03:28 > 0:03:30It was in his DNA.

0:03:30 > 0:03:32I discovered that Michael was very talented

0:03:32 > 0:03:34when he was just about two or three years old.

0:03:34 > 0:03:38Michael had a lot of rhythm and he loved to dance.

0:03:38 > 0:03:41I think he was born dancing.

0:03:41 > 0:03:45Michael told me, way back, he said, "Steve, I'm not going to be poor."

0:03:45 > 0:03:49Imagine 11 kids living in a two-bedroom house in Gary, Indiana.

0:03:49 > 0:03:51And Gary, Indiana is no Beverly Hills.

0:03:51 > 0:03:53It was hard.

0:03:53 > 0:03:56When you have all those kids like I had

0:03:56 > 0:03:58and kids, you know, they like to eat,

0:03:58 > 0:04:00so when they holler, they want some food,

0:04:00 > 0:04:02you got to put something in their hand.

0:04:02 > 0:04:04And I kept food on the table, plenty food spare.

0:04:04 > 0:04:09Joseph had done a remarkable job creating the group.

0:04:09 > 0:04:12I can remember how much it meant to all of them,

0:04:12 > 0:04:14but particularly Michael, to make it.

0:04:14 > 0:04:18I would say, to this day, Motown was the greatest school for me.

0:04:18 > 0:04:20Really, it was the best.

0:04:20 > 0:04:23I learned how to cut a track as well as producing.

0:04:23 > 0:04:25I've learned so many things about writing.

0:04:25 > 0:04:28Pretty much like a college that taught us everything

0:04:28 > 0:04:30about songwriting and producing and everything.

0:04:30 > 0:04:32And we learned so much about lyrical content,

0:04:32 > 0:04:36how to produce songs and just being a great artist.

0:04:36 > 0:04:40They had the best songwriters and artists in the world.

0:04:40 > 0:04:41Here we are in Chicago.

0:04:41 > 0:04:43You see here members of The Temptations.

0:04:43 > 0:04:47Down here on the bottom is little Michael with his Afro

0:04:47 > 0:04:49and I'm right next to him.

0:04:49 > 0:04:50That's me, y'all.

0:04:50 > 0:04:53What Michael learned is to be great

0:04:53 > 0:04:56you had to be persistent.

0:04:56 > 0:04:59You had to work. He got to watch people

0:04:59 > 0:05:00like Diana Ross,

0:05:00 > 0:05:02Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder...

0:05:02 > 0:05:04The Temptations, Smokey Robinson.

0:05:04 > 0:05:06All these wonderful guys

0:05:06 > 0:05:07that we idolised.

0:05:07 > 0:05:09And these were legends in the music industry

0:05:09 > 0:05:12that he was able to observe up close in the studio

0:05:12 > 0:05:14in their element.

0:05:14 > 0:05:16I got my degree from Motown university.

0:05:18 > 0:05:20It was really an atmosphere of competition.

0:05:20 > 0:05:24Competition breeds champions, but you can't let the competition

0:05:24 > 0:05:25overcome the love.

0:05:25 > 0:05:29And so it was all built on love, and Michael was full of love.

0:05:29 > 0:05:32And the atmosphere just suited him very well.

0:05:32 > 0:05:35We learned so much being with all those great songwriters

0:05:35 > 0:05:36and producers.

0:05:36 > 0:05:39And at the time when it's taking place, you don't realise that.

0:05:39 > 0:05:42We were kids ourselves, I didn't know how to do this.

0:05:42 > 0:05:46And we were learning as we went together.

0:05:46 > 0:05:47# Stop! Na-na-na-na

0:05:47 > 0:05:50# You'd better save it

0:05:50 > 0:05:54# Stop, stop, stop You'd better save it

0:06:02 > 0:06:04# When we played tag in grade school

0:06:04 > 0:06:06# You want to be It

0:06:06 > 0:06:08# But chasing boys was just a fad

0:06:08 > 0:06:10# You crossed your heart you'd quit. #

0:06:10 > 0:06:14Yes, it's the same nerve The Beatles touched lo these many years ago.

0:06:14 > 0:06:17Only this time, it's a group of black teenagers

0:06:17 > 0:06:21fronted by an 11-year-old soul brother.

0:06:21 > 0:06:23# Darling, take it slow

0:06:23 > 0:06:25# Or some day you'll be all alone. #

0:06:25 > 0:06:28It was so intense, this fan worship.

0:06:28 > 0:06:31You have to understand that all the kids who were

0:06:31 > 0:06:32responding to The Jackson 5,

0:06:32 > 0:06:36hadn't had a Mickey Mouse Club with kids like them on camera.

0:06:36 > 0:06:41They represented the first youth group of our contemporary times

0:06:41 > 0:06:42for all these kids to identify with,

0:06:42 > 0:06:44and, initially, they were all the black kids.

0:06:44 > 0:06:48The beginning is, you know, when I first saw him

0:06:48 > 0:06:50and that's the reason why I'm here.

0:06:50 > 0:06:51That's what motivated me

0:06:51 > 0:06:54and wanted me to do whatever it is that I'm doing right now.

0:06:54 > 0:06:56You know, he was everything that...

0:06:57 > 0:06:59That I aspired to be.

0:06:59 > 0:07:02Those boys, they practise most of the time

0:07:02 > 0:07:06because one of the kids who's out there...

0:07:06 > 0:07:09running the streets and playing, he was in there

0:07:09 > 0:07:11trying to get a song down or something.

0:07:11 > 0:07:14He wanted to be the best at everything he ever did.

0:07:14 > 0:07:17They were not at all concerned about the working.

0:07:17 > 0:07:19We worked all day and all night.

0:07:19 > 0:07:22I mean, this kid, at nine,

0:07:22 > 0:07:24meant serious business.

0:07:24 > 0:07:27I mean, this kid meant serious, serious business.

0:07:27 > 0:07:29I mean, he was not kidding!

0:07:29 > 0:07:31He questioned Nick and I

0:07:31 > 0:07:33about our early Motown songs.

0:07:33 > 0:07:36He always wanted to know, how did you come up with this idea?

0:07:36 > 0:07:38What was this? What made you say that?

0:07:38 > 0:07:41You know, songs like Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing.

0:07:41 > 0:07:42He was a real student.

0:07:42 > 0:07:45I was fascinated by the fact that he had this kind of commitment

0:07:45 > 0:07:48and this kind of dedication and was inquisitive about it.

0:07:48 > 0:07:49He was always watching.

0:07:49 > 0:07:51He would always be watching.

0:07:51 > 0:07:53Well, who else do you think makes

0:07:53 > 0:07:54the stage come to real life

0:07:54 > 0:07:56besides me and Ed Sullivan?

0:07:56 > 0:07:57LAUGHTER

0:07:57 > 0:07:59Hold it, hold it, hold it.

0:07:59 > 0:08:01You're beginning to steam me, kid. You understand that?

0:08:01 > 0:08:04Best experience in the world.

0:08:04 > 0:08:06Just sitting in the wings and learning.

0:08:06 > 0:08:09Aw. I ate that up.

0:08:09 > 0:08:12And he would sit with me at mixing sessions,

0:08:12 > 0:08:13because I did a lot of mixing.

0:08:13 > 0:08:16He would sit there for hours and hours.

0:08:16 > 0:08:18I would tell somebody, one of my assistants, I'd say,

0:08:18 > 0:08:23"My back is turned, but I know Michael is staring at me."

0:08:23 > 0:08:25The thing I loved about Motown

0:08:25 > 0:08:27was that Berry Gordy,

0:08:27 > 0:08:31if he didn't like a song, he'd go in the studio and cut one himself.

0:08:31 > 0:08:34- Yeah.- And so Berry Gordy, in my opinion, is probably

0:08:34 > 0:08:38the greatest record man there ever was.

0:08:38 > 0:08:41Berry was wonderful with taking a song

0:08:41 > 0:08:43and leaning it to the right direction,

0:08:43 > 0:08:45giving it the right flavours, to make it a hit.

0:08:45 > 0:08:49He knew just what it takes, and everybody can't do that.

0:08:54 > 0:08:56Ben is coming...

0:08:58 > 0:09:01And this time, he's not alone.

0:09:01 > 0:09:05And then came Ben, which was a soundtrack to a movie about rats.

0:09:05 > 0:09:09Wherever we tour, the whole room demand to hear it.

0:09:09 > 0:09:10We can't get off stage.

0:09:10 > 0:09:12People start chanting for Ben.

0:09:12 > 0:09:16This performance of Ben at the Academy Awards in 1973

0:09:16 > 0:09:18was the first time that Michael really stepped out on his own.

0:09:18 > 0:09:22The first nominated song is Ben from the picture Ben.

0:09:22 > 0:09:25It'll be sung by a young man whose talent is mature,

0:09:25 > 0:09:29but whose age suggests that maybe he shouldn't even be up this late.

0:09:29 > 0:09:36# Ben, the two of us need look no more

0:09:36 > 0:09:43# We both found what we were looking for

0:09:43 > 0:09:47# With a friend to call my own... #

0:09:47 > 0:09:50He was part of your whole life.

0:09:50 > 0:09:51It was crazy, man!

0:09:51 > 0:09:53When you were a little kid

0:09:53 > 0:09:56with all the Jackson 5 songs

0:09:56 > 0:09:59and when you're a little older then through your puberty,

0:09:59 > 0:10:01your adolescence.

0:10:01 > 0:10:07# Ben, you're always running here and there

0:10:08 > 0:10:12And then when you go to college, and then...

0:10:12 > 0:10:16He was always around, defining a part of your life.

0:10:16 > 0:10:20There's so many steps in between that first day and Off The Wall.

0:10:20 > 0:10:25For me, the most heartbreaking was when they left Motown.

0:10:25 > 0:10:28# Dancing, dancing, dancing

0:10:28 > 0:10:30# She's a dancing machine

0:10:30 > 0:10:32# Aw, babe

0:10:32 > 0:10:33# Move it, baby

0:10:33 > 0:10:35# Automatic systematic

0:10:35 > 0:10:38# Full of colour, self-contained

0:10:38 > 0:10:41# Tuned and gentle to your vibes... #

0:10:41 > 0:10:43They came in as bubble-gum.

0:10:43 > 0:10:45No-one ever graduates from being a cute kid group

0:10:45 > 0:10:47to being taken seriously.

0:10:47 > 0:10:49There's no child singer that you could point to,

0:10:49 > 0:10:52besides Michael Jackson, that went from being really big

0:10:52 > 0:10:54to the biggest pop star ever.

0:10:54 > 0:10:55Thank God for Dancing Machine.

0:11:13 > 0:11:16What they were observing at the time at Motown,

0:11:16 > 0:11:18what The Jacksons were observing, were a lot of artists

0:11:18 > 0:11:20having creative freedom.

0:11:20 > 0:11:22# Dancing, dancing, dancing machine

0:11:22 > 0:11:25# Watch her get down Watch her get down. #

0:11:27 > 0:11:30We wanted to write, we wanted to produce ourselves

0:11:30 > 0:11:33and our contract at Motown didn't let us do that.

0:11:33 > 0:11:35And plus our contract was expiring at the time

0:11:35 > 0:11:38and it was time to make a new change.

0:11:38 > 0:11:39Two guys named Ron Alexenburg

0:11:39 > 0:11:41and Steve Popovich, OK?

0:11:41 > 0:11:44And they were with Epic, one was head of promotion,

0:11:44 > 0:11:46one was head of A&R, and they came to me and said,

0:11:46 > 0:11:48"We're going to sign The Jacksons."

0:11:48 > 0:11:50You know, as a group.

0:11:50 > 0:11:53It all started at the Warwick Hotel and there's nothing but kids

0:11:53 > 0:11:55around the whole hotel. I went to the doorman and said,

0:11:55 > 0:11:58"What's going on here?" And he said, "The Jackson 5 are here!"

0:11:58 > 0:12:00It gave me the opportunity to go, just the way I am,

0:12:00 > 0:12:03into the lobby, I picked up the house phone and I called and I said,

0:12:03 > 0:12:06"Michael Jackson, please" and they rang right through to room 805

0:12:06 > 0:12:08and he came downstairs with his dad. I looked at him and said,

0:12:08 > 0:12:11"What do you want to do?" and he said, "Some day I'd like to

0:12:11 > 0:12:14"do my own music." I said, "Really? What about now?"

0:12:14 > 0:12:16The group wanted to leave Motown.

0:12:16 > 0:12:18- Joseph...- My name's Joe Jackson.

0:12:18 > 0:12:20..thought that he wanted to bring them and take them

0:12:20 > 0:12:23to a whole other level that Motown just couldn't do.

0:12:23 > 0:12:25But I was told not to sign him and I was told that

0:12:25 > 0:12:27they were a cartoon act.

0:12:27 > 0:12:29And I went to Walter Yetnikoff who was my boss and I said,

0:12:29 > 0:12:31"Hold on. The Jacksons belong on this label.

0:12:31 > 0:12:34"We call ourselves "the family of music", this is a family.

0:12:34 > 0:12:36"I want to sign them."

0:12:36 > 0:12:39I said, "Well, I don't know how many records they've sold."

0:12:39 > 0:12:41So, I went to hear at the Westbury Music Fair.

0:12:41 > 0:12:43Michael was 15 years old at the time.

0:12:43 > 0:12:48He's singing a song to a dead rat, which you remember, named Ben, OK?

0:12:48 > 0:12:50And I come back and I said to these guys, "Are you crazy?

0:12:50 > 0:12:52"You want to give them 3,500,000?"

0:12:52 > 0:12:55I said, "Walter, please. You're new in your job

0:12:55 > 0:12:58"and you're really not qualified to judge this."

0:12:58 > 0:13:01I was in the job, like, three weeks when that happened.

0:13:01 > 0:13:03He was like, "OK, I'll go along with you guys.

0:13:03 > 0:13:05"You seem to know what you're doing."

0:13:05 > 0:13:07I said, "You know, you're probably right."

0:13:07 > 0:13:09That was my brilliant move in signing The Jacksons.

0:13:09 > 0:13:13# Like Ben

0:13:13 > 0:13:16# Like Ben

0:13:16 > 0:13:18# Like Ben. #

0:13:18 > 0:13:21APPLAUSE

0:13:23 > 0:13:27The most tense time of life, for me,

0:13:27 > 0:13:30was the changing from Motown

0:13:30 > 0:13:32to CBS.

0:13:32 > 0:13:34I was in a whole other world.

0:13:34 > 0:13:36I was... Gosh.

0:13:36 > 0:13:38I didn't know what was happening.

0:13:38 > 0:13:42Understanding the challenge of a child prodigy having to make

0:13:42 > 0:13:46a transition and now being a serious, serious artist

0:13:46 > 0:13:49and how much courage it takes to actually step outside of that

0:13:49 > 0:13:51and to come with a new sound,

0:13:51 > 0:13:54that can be pretty damn scary.

0:13:54 > 0:13:57Kind of a critical decision that The Jackson 5 with their father,

0:13:57 > 0:14:00Joe Jackson, made to leave Motown.

0:14:00 > 0:14:05And it resulted in a lawsuit out of which came a name change

0:14:05 > 0:14:06to The Jacksons.

0:14:06 > 0:14:08I was told I couldn't use the name "Jackson 5"

0:14:08 > 0:14:11and I said, "It's OK, we'll call them The Jacksons."

0:14:11 > 0:14:12Berry Gordy would not let that name go.

0:14:12 > 0:14:15We were all sad that he was gone...

0:14:15 > 0:14:17Jermaine stayed.

0:14:17 > 0:14:20Jermaine Jackson was married to the daughter

0:14:20 > 0:14:24of Berry Gordy, so probably not a good idea for him to leave Motown

0:14:24 > 0:14:25with the rest of his family.

0:14:25 > 0:14:27We respect Jermaine's decision because that was

0:14:27 > 0:14:29a very difficult decision for him to make

0:14:29 > 0:14:31and I respect him for that because

0:14:31 > 0:14:34he did what he wants to do. I want people to do what they want to do.

0:14:34 > 0:14:37Don't do what I want you to do, do what you feel that's best for you.

0:14:37 > 0:14:40There's so much going on, so much tension.

0:14:40 > 0:14:42I wasn't sure what was going to happen.

0:14:42 > 0:14:46I asked Michael, "What's going to happen when people ask you,

0:14:46 > 0:14:48"Why are you leaving Motown?" and he said,

0:14:48 > 0:14:50"Because everything is possible with you at Epic Records"

0:14:50 > 0:14:52and there was nothing more to be said.

0:14:52 > 0:14:55And with Columbia Records, we want to sell twice as many records.

0:14:55 > 0:14:58We want to do the things that we've dreamed of.

0:14:58 > 0:15:00It was not a popular signing in the business,

0:15:00 > 0:15:02nor was it in the building.

0:15:03 > 0:15:04"Ron's lost his mind."

0:15:04 > 0:15:06You know, "The Jacksons have had it, they're done."

0:15:06 > 0:15:09The problem at that time is they had had a cartoon series,

0:15:09 > 0:15:12and their credibility was questionable.

0:15:12 > 0:15:15# 2, 4, 6, 8, who do you appreciate

0:15:15 > 0:15:17# Please be my pride and joy

0:15:17 > 0:15:19# 2, 4, 6, 8, who do you appreciate

0:15:19 > 0:15:22# I wanna be your lover boy... #

0:15:22 > 0:15:24I may be a little fella

0:15:24 > 0:15:26But my heart's as big as Texas

0:15:26 > 0:15:28I have all the love a man can give

0:15:28 > 0:15:30And maybe a little bit extra.

0:15:30 > 0:15:33I'm going to give them as much credibility as I possibly can.

0:15:33 > 0:15:35We got on a train to Philadelphia,

0:15:35 > 0:15:37Gamble and Huff opened their drawer full of hits...

0:15:37 > 0:15:40When you think of disco, and when you think of quality disco,

0:15:40 > 0:15:42you came to Philadelphia.

0:15:42 > 0:15:45Two of the people that Michael Jackson learned from immensely

0:15:45 > 0:15:48were Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff, who were the creators

0:15:48 > 0:15:51and entrepreneurs behind Philly International.

0:15:51 > 0:15:53The proprietors of the disco sound.

0:15:53 > 0:15:57They had always wanted to write and produce their own records,

0:15:57 > 0:16:01you know what I mean, and be a part of the process.

0:16:01 > 0:16:03And that's pretty much what Philly International was,

0:16:03 > 0:16:07it was a place where you had a lot of creative freedom.

0:16:07 > 0:16:10They wrote tons of hits, I mean, tons, tons of hits.

0:16:10 > 0:16:13We had Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes, we had we had the O'Jays...

0:16:13 > 0:16:14Look to the roster!

0:16:14 > 0:16:16We had Patti LaBelle...

0:16:16 > 0:16:19- Archie Bell & The Drells... - Phyllis Hyman...- Billy Paul...

0:16:19 > 0:16:21Lou Rawls, we had Teddy Pendergrass...

0:16:21 > 0:16:23- Three Degrees.- Three Degrees...

0:16:23 > 0:16:26We had to style these songs to fit these guys' voices.

0:16:26 > 0:16:29- And that's what great producers do, right?- Sure.

0:16:29 > 0:16:32We're right...almost in the middle of a recording session with

0:16:32 > 0:16:36the Jacksons, and guess who is producing their brand-new album?

0:16:36 > 0:16:38- Gamble and Huff.- That's right.

0:16:38 > 0:16:42And why would you guys come all the way in from California

0:16:42 > 0:16:45to cut some sides in an album in Philadelphia?

0:16:45 > 0:16:48Because, er...the Gamble and Huff organisation is here,

0:16:48 > 0:16:52and they're two of the best producers in the world.

0:16:52 > 0:16:55Working with Gamble and Huff, they do it at a quicker pace -

0:16:55 > 0:16:56three weeks to make a record.

0:16:56 > 0:16:58I didn't know you could make a record in three weeks.

0:16:58 > 0:17:01They were the Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis of the '70s.

0:17:01 > 0:17:03And Michael always says he learned a lot

0:17:03 > 0:17:06about the songwriting process from Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff.

0:17:06 > 0:17:09How to structure a song, how to create great arrangements.

0:17:09 > 0:17:13The Jacksons came to Philadelphia for two years to record two records,

0:17:13 > 0:17:16The Jacksons and Goin' Places.

0:17:16 > 0:17:20We try to write songs that people do all the time,

0:17:20 > 0:17:22how people say things all the time.

0:17:22 > 0:17:24# Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself

0:17:24 > 0:17:25# Enjoy yourself for me... #

0:17:25 > 0:17:28People say that all the time, you know, "Enjoy yourself."

0:17:28 > 0:17:30# You've got to enjoy yourself...

0:17:31 > 0:17:33# Sayin'

0:17:33 > 0:17:34# Enjoy yourself

0:17:34 > 0:17:35# Enjoy yourself

0:17:35 > 0:17:36# Get down, get down

0:17:36 > 0:17:37# Get on down

0:17:37 > 0:17:38# Enjoy yourself

0:17:38 > 0:17:39# Enjoy yourself

0:17:39 > 0:17:40# Get down, get down

0:17:40 > 0:17:42# Get on down

0:17:42 > 0:17:43# Enjoy yourself

0:17:43 > 0:17:44# Enjoy yourself

0:17:44 > 0:17:45# Get down, get down

0:17:45 > 0:17:46# Let's get on down

0:17:46 > 0:17:47# Enjoy yourself

0:17:47 > 0:17:48# Enjoy yourself

0:17:48 > 0:17:50# Get down, get down

0:17:50 > 0:17:51# Just get on down

0:18:00 > 0:18:01- # Come on - Come on

0:18:01 > 0:18:03- # Come on - Come on

0:18:03 > 0:18:04- # Come on - Come on

0:18:04 > 0:18:05# Come on

0:18:05 > 0:18:07# You can do it, You can do it You can do it, You can do it

0:18:08 > 0:18:10- # Whoo! # - He was driven by the music,

0:18:10 > 0:18:13- he loved the music and, er... - He got to learn.

0:18:13 > 0:18:17One of the most important things to being successful is listening.

0:18:17 > 0:18:19It's listening and watching.

0:18:19 > 0:18:22And being a good person to work with, easy to work with.

0:18:22 > 0:18:26Every song is a negotiation, every production is a negotiation,

0:18:26 > 0:18:28if you're co-doing it with someone.

0:18:28 > 0:18:31You know, the producer wanted me to pronounce words a certain way.

0:18:31 > 0:18:35There was a song, and there's a line in it where he sings...

0:18:35 > 0:18:39# Now I'm a man that's for all seasons

0:18:39 > 0:18:43# And what the city offers me ain't naturally... #

0:18:43 > 0:18:44# "Ain't naturally..." #

0:18:44 > 0:18:46He sings that, and I go, "Oh, no, that's bad English."

0:18:46 > 0:18:49So I say, "Hang on, Mike," and I come out, and I said,

0:18:49 > 0:18:53so I say, "Isn't naturally - naturally? Or isn't natural?"

0:18:53 > 0:18:56I told him you pronounce the word so precisely, it takes away

0:18:56 > 0:19:00from the feeling of the song, and we got into a little thing with that.

0:19:00 > 0:19:02There's a lot of give and take,

0:19:02 > 0:19:04and sometimes you don't want to give, or sometimes you give

0:19:04 > 0:19:07but you feel like, "I should have left it how it was."

0:19:07 > 0:19:10Something said, in my brain, "Shut the fuck up!"

0:19:10 > 0:19:12"Stop being the grammar police!

0:19:12 > 0:19:14This guy's a genius, just get out of his way!"

0:19:14 > 0:19:17I was right, and I won!

0:19:17 > 0:19:20But, um... it was a good learning point.

0:19:20 > 0:19:22You want to...

0:19:22 > 0:19:25100% express your idea.

0:19:25 > 0:19:27It's just 100% expression of me.

0:19:27 > 0:19:29We have two albums...

0:19:29 > 0:19:32I mean, two singles on the album coming out in December on Epic.

0:19:32 > 0:19:35The first time we've written some songs on the album.

0:19:35 > 0:19:37It was a different style, but still it was a hit record,

0:19:37 > 0:19:40so when we started putting that together with what

0:19:40 > 0:19:44we heard amongst the brothers, it created our own style of music.

0:19:44 > 0:19:46It's time to write, so I'm letting you know

0:19:46 > 0:19:48that it's time for you to go out and do it yourself.

0:19:48 > 0:19:52So we decided to write and produce our own songs,

0:19:52 > 0:19:54and we finally did,

0:19:54 > 0:19:57and we went through so much, you know?

0:19:57 > 0:19:58The...

0:19:58 > 0:20:00People are not believing in your work, or saying,

0:20:00 > 0:20:02"Are you sure, are you sure?"

0:20:02 > 0:20:05We said, "Yeah, we know we can, we know what we can do."

0:20:05 > 0:20:08And we went in and we wrote the Destiny album.

0:20:08 > 0:20:10I felt it was something that came from within,

0:20:10 > 0:20:12from us, that this was the Jacksons.

0:20:12 > 0:20:14"This is us today."

0:20:14 > 0:20:16On the Destiny album, which is the album that comes out in 1978,

0:20:16 > 0:20:19a year prior to Off The Wall, he's starting to make those moves,

0:20:19 > 0:20:22he wrote Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground).

0:20:22 > 0:20:24Where were you when you first found out about that record,

0:20:24 > 0:20:25- how'd it happen?- Er...

0:20:25 > 0:20:26It was at home,

0:20:26 > 0:20:30and Randy was playing this groove on the piano, "da-da-dah..."

0:20:30 > 0:20:32I said, "What is that?" He said, "Oh, it's nothing."

0:20:32 > 0:20:34I said, "I'll say that it is something."

0:20:34 > 0:20:38- And I just started singing to his playing.- Mm-hm.- And it came about.

0:20:38 > 0:20:41I called some of my friends out here I had a lot of respect for,

0:20:41 > 0:20:43that knew how to arrange. I thought...

0:20:43 > 0:20:47the key to really making an album of a vocal band like this

0:20:47 > 0:20:51is obviously great musicians, great arrangements...

0:20:51 > 0:20:53Bobby Colomby convinced me that I should, er...

0:20:53 > 0:20:55get more into arranging.

0:20:55 > 0:20:57He said, "And here's who you're going to do it with."

0:20:57 > 0:20:59Next thing you know, I'm in a room with The Jacksons!

0:20:59 > 0:21:03Then we brought Greg in to help us with the record...

0:21:03 > 0:21:04- Destiny album again.- Yeah.

0:21:04 > 0:21:06- Man!- Amazing!

0:21:06 > 0:21:09- Everybody was just great from the beginning.- It was supe then.

0:21:09 > 0:21:13When I first heard the demo for Shake Your Body, it was...

0:21:13 > 0:21:19You know, obviously, the melody was there, which was very strong,

0:21:19 > 0:21:24and they had the basic piano part, you know, that you hear,

0:21:24 > 0:21:26the "duh-duh-duh-duh..." All that rhythm was there.

0:21:26 > 0:21:30# You walk around this town all with your head up in the sky

0:21:30 > 0:21:34# But I do know that I want you... #

0:21:34 > 0:21:38But there wasn't...as much going on rhythmically.

0:21:38 > 0:21:41Greg came up with the "psst-psst-bah-dun-bah-dum."

0:21:41 > 0:21:43"Psst-psst-bah-dun-bah-dum."

0:21:43 > 0:21:44"Psst-psst-bah-dun-bah-dah."

0:21:44 > 0:21:46"Psst-psst-bah-dun-bah-dah."

0:21:46 > 0:21:48That's the rhythm of Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground).

0:21:48 > 0:21:50The average song was more like,

0:21:50 > 0:21:52"Psst-tsst-tsst-tsst- tsst-tsst-tsst."

0:21:52 > 0:21:55- It fit perfectly.- At first when he came up with that beat, I said,

0:21:55 > 0:21:56"What is this guy doing?"

0:21:56 > 0:21:58I said that to myself, I didn't say anything,

0:21:58 > 0:22:00but I waited till he played it,

0:22:00 > 0:22:03- and, man, when he played it...- Yes. - ..and we heard it on the record,

0:22:03 > 0:22:05I said, "Oh, my God, this is the bomb!"

0:22:05 > 0:22:06HE LAUGHS

0:22:06 > 0:22:10Cos I'd never heard a beat like that before, you know? It was incredible.

0:22:10 > 0:22:11Great beat.

0:22:11 > 0:22:13I said, "If the Jacksons ever need a drummer,

0:22:13 > 0:22:15"let 'em know your friend is in town."

0:22:15 > 0:22:17It was a guy whose name is James McField, keyboard player,

0:22:17 > 0:22:19who got me the audition.

0:22:19 > 0:22:21And Tito said that - he had his arm on his guitar, and he said,

0:22:21 > 0:22:23"Let's play Shake Your Body Down..."

0:22:23 > 0:22:25This kind of look, he said, "You know that one?"

0:22:25 > 0:22:27So I started playing the beat.

0:22:28 > 0:22:30And they're looking at each other,

0:22:30 > 0:22:32they're whispering in each other's ear, and they're looking,

0:22:32 > 0:22:34and I'm saying, "Oh, no, I'm blowing it!"

0:22:34 > 0:22:36Because that beat is very tricky.

0:22:36 > 0:22:38You have to know when and how to cross your arms

0:22:38 > 0:22:40to make the times happen,

0:22:40 > 0:22:42the intricate hi-hat pattern,

0:22:42 > 0:22:44and keep the beat going without losing any of the elements.

0:22:44 > 0:22:47And then Randy said, "Nobody could play that beat!

0:22:47 > 0:22:49That was a three-part overdub!"

0:22:49 > 0:22:52And I said, "Really? I thought the guy played that one time."

0:22:52 > 0:22:54And they were shocked and amazed that I could play it,

0:22:54 > 0:22:55and they said, "You're our drummer."

0:22:55 > 0:22:59We had Tom Tom 84 doing the horn arrangements,

0:22:59 > 0:23:01who is a horn arranger out of Chicago

0:23:01 > 0:23:03who did all of Earth, Wind & Fire's.

0:23:03 > 0:23:05And then we have the horn arrangement,

0:23:05 > 0:23:08then we got Earth, Wind & Fire's horn players come in and play

0:23:08 > 0:23:12"Duh-duh-duh-duh-dah-da-da-da- dah-dah-dah,"

0:23:12 > 0:23:13and the horn players loved that lick.

0:23:13 > 0:23:17It's as dissonant and tension-provoking

0:23:17 > 0:23:19a verse, musically...

0:23:19 > 0:23:22You can't... And I'm, like, "What's going on?

0:23:22 > 0:23:25"Where's the bridge, when's the solo? When are we...?"

0:23:25 > 0:23:27I'm just used to other form.

0:23:27 > 0:23:30Epic's really not interested in them at all at this point,

0:23:30 > 0:23:32it was kind of like, "Oh, God, we've got to put this out..."

0:23:32 > 0:23:35I get a call from Paris Eley.

0:23:35 > 0:23:37He is head of promotion for the R&B department.

0:23:37 > 0:23:39And he says, "Hey, man...

0:23:40 > 0:23:41"..Shake Your Body's a hit."

0:23:41 > 0:23:43I want to show you first of all the album,

0:23:43 > 0:23:47and then show you the inside, if I may, and from left to right,

0:23:47 > 0:23:50they are Randy and Tito and Jackie and Marlon and Michael,

0:23:50 > 0:23:51and they are...

0:23:51 > 0:23:52The Jacksons!

0:23:52 > 0:23:53CHEERING

0:23:53 > 0:23:57# I don't know what's gonna happen to you, baby

0:23:57 > 0:23:59# But I do know that I love you

0:24:01 > 0:24:04# You walk around this town with your head all up in the sky

0:24:04 > 0:24:08# And I do know that I want you

0:24:08 > 0:24:11# Let's dance, let's shout

0:24:11 > 0:24:12# Shake your body down to the ground

0:24:12 > 0:24:15# Let's dance, let's shout

0:24:15 > 0:24:16# Shake your body down to the ground

0:24:16 > 0:24:19# Let's dance, let's shout

0:24:19 > 0:24:20# Shake your body down to the ground

0:24:20 > 0:24:23# Let's dance, let's shout

0:24:23 > 0:24:25# Shake your body down to the ground... #

0:24:25 > 0:24:30That enabled people to see Michael Jackson finally as an adult.

0:24:30 > 0:24:33Because it was musical, it was a long way from ABC

0:24:33 > 0:24:34and I Want You Back.

0:24:40 > 0:24:44# You tease me with your loving to play hard to get

0:24:44 > 0:24:47# Cos you do know that I want you

0:24:48 > 0:24:52# I need to do just something to get closer to your soul

0:24:52 > 0:24:56# Cos I do know that I want you

0:24:56 > 0:24:58# Let's dance, let's shout

0:24:58 > 0:25:00# Shake your body down to the ground

0:25:00 > 0:25:02# Let's dance, let's shout

0:25:02 > 0:25:04# Shake your body down to the ground

0:25:04 > 0:25:06# Let's dance, let's shout

0:25:06 > 0:25:08# Shake your body down to the ground

0:25:08 > 0:25:10# Let's dance, let's shout

0:25:10 > 0:25:12# Shake it all now

0:25:19 > 0:25:21# Shake it all now... #

0:25:21 > 0:25:25There's a moment in the demo of Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)

0:25:25 > 0:25:30which clearly let me know that they had their eyes on a bigger prize.

0:25:30 > 0:25:34It's 1978, and the biggest-selling album of all time

0:25:34 > 0:25:35is Saturday Night Fever.

0:25:35 > 0:25:40And there's a moment that you can hear Jackie in the background

0:25:40 > 0:25:41say, "Pssh!

0:25:41 > 0:25:44"I can't wait till the Bee Gees hear THIS shit!"

0:25:44 > 0:25:45I want the Bee Gees to hear this shit!

0:25:45 > 0:25:47Whoo!

0:25:49 > 0:25:51# Let's dance, let's shout

0:25:51 > 0:25:52# Shake your body down to the ground... #

0:25:52 > 0:25:54Everybody!

0:25:55 > 0:25:57# Shake your body down to the ground Let's dance, let's shout

0:25:57 > 0:25:59# Shake your body down to the ground... #

0:25:59 > 0:26:00Everybody!

0:26:01 > 0:26:07We wrote, "Produced by The Jacksons. All songs written by The Jacksons."

0:26:07 > 0:26:09Well, Mick Jackson,

0:26:09 > 0:26:12a white kid that lived in England, wrote Blame It On The Boogie.

0:26:12 > 0:26:14I didn't lie. His name was Jackson!

0:26:14 > 0:26:16# Don't blame it on the sunshine

0:26:16 > 0:26:18# Don't blame it on the moonlight

0:26:18 > 0:26:20# Don't blame it on the good times

0:26:20 > 0:26:22# Blame it on the boogie

0:26:22 > 0:26:24# Don't you blame it on the sunshine

0:26:24 > 0:26:26# Don't blame it on the moonlight

0:26:26 > 0:26:28# Don't blame it on the good times

0:26:28 > 0:26:30# Blame it on the boogie... #

0:26:30 > 0:26:31Whoo!

0:26:31 > 0:26:33# I just can't, I just can't

0:26:33 > 0:26:35# I just can't control my feet

0:26:35 > 0:26:37# I just can't, I just can't

0:26:37 > 0:26:39# I just can't control my feet

0:26:39 > 0:26:41# I just can't, I just can't

0:26:41 > 0:26:43# I just can't control my feet

0:26:43 > 0:26:45# I just can't, I just can't

0:26:45 > 0:26:47# I just can't control my feet

0:26:47 > 0:26:49# Sunshine

0:26:49 > 0:26:51# Don't blame it on the moonlight

0:26:51 > 0:26:53# Don't blame it on the good times

0:26:53 > 0:26:54# Blame it on the boogie

0:26:55 > 0:26:56# Sunshine

0:26:56 > 0:26:59# Don't blame it on the moonlight

0:26:59 > 0:27:01# Don't blame it on the good times

0:27:01 > 0:27:02# Blame it on the boogie

0:27:03 > 0:27:05# I just can't, I just can't

0:27:05 > 0:27:07# I just can't control my feet

0:27:07 > 0:27:09- # I just can't, I just can't - Whoo!

0:27:09 > 0:27:10# I just can't control my... #

0:27:10 > 0:27:12So Michael starts singing.

0:27:12 > 0:27:15He throws the headphones down, and bolts out of the studio.

0:27:15 > 0:27:17I turned to the engineer...

0:27:17 > 0:27:19"Did he get feedback, is there something...?"

0:27:19 > 0:27:21He says, "No, nothing." I go out to the hall,

0:27:21 > 0:27:22he's dancing!

0:27:22 > 0:27:24It was unbelievable, just spinning around, he goes...

0:27:24 > 0:27:28"I'm sorry," he said, "I can't stand still and sing that section,

0:27:28 > 0:27:29"I gotta get this out."

0:27:29 > 0:27:33He'd watched James Brown, the Nicholas Brothers and Sammy Davis.

0:27:33 > 0:27:36He had seen somebody dance one time,

0:27:36 > 0:27:39like Fred Astaire and some of the other stars,

0:27:39 > 0:27:41and he could do exactly what they...

0:27:41 > 0:27:42Easy to catch on.

0:27:42 > 0:27:47Jackie Wilson, which I used to watch from the wings every day on stage.

0:27:47 > 0:27:50- Mmm-hmm.- We would play at the Regal Theater, six shows a day,

0:27:50 > 0:27:51we would come on amateur hour...

0:27:51 > 0:27:53- Oh, my gosh.- I would just watch him.

0:27:53 > 0:27:55Sammy Davis Jr is another one of my favourites.

0:27:55 > 0:27:58- You can't go wrong watching Sammy Davis Jr.- Oh, yeah.

0:27:58 > 0:28:01To watch him and to see...

0:28:01 > 0:28:04And suddenly see little flashes...

0:28:04 > 0:28:06Flatteringly, I say this about myself...

0:28:06 > 0:28:11Little flashes of me there, and go, "Wow," but he's extended it,

0:28:11 > 0:28:15he's changed it, he's coloured it, till it becomes his own.

0:28:15 > 0:28:17He introduced me to Fred Astaire and all these movies,

0:28:17 > 0:28:20I had no idea who the hell these people were prior to that.

0:28:20 > 0:28:21Right? And, er...

0:28:21 > 0:28:26He just opened up my eyes to a whole other world of inspiration.

0:28:26 > 0:28:28I just want to let you know I have all your films on tape,

0:28:28 > 0:28:30and I watch them all the time.

0:28:30 > 0:28:32And I want to ask you one question.

0:28:32 > 0:28:36How do you do that thing when you, er...walk on the ceiling?

0:28:36 > 0:28:37FRED ASTAIRE LAUGHS Dancing...

0:28:37 > 0:28:39Really, I want to know, how did that work?

0:28:39 > 0:28:42- The whole room and the camera turned.- So they both turned, right?

0:28:42 > 0:28:43Yeah.

0:28:43 > 0:28:45TAP DANCING

0:28:45 > 0:28:48BIG BAND MUSIC PLAYS

0:28:49 > 0:28:52TAP DANCING

0:29:13 > 0:29:15Michael's dance is based on energy,

0:29:15 > 0:29:16and he's...

0:29:16 > 0:29:19He moves like an electric eel, he's got...

0:29:19 > 0:29:22I think the adjective "electric" is good for him.

0:29:22 > 0:29:25He's charged with energy. But he has the good...

0:29:25 > 0:29:28inner sense, or wherever it comes from, his brain, wherever,

0:29:28 > 0:29:31to just take it down and then up again quickly,

0:29:31 > 0:29:34which good dancers naturally have.

0:29:34 > 0:29:36I came out after the war,

0:29:36 > 0:29:38after I was in the Navy,

0:29:38 > 0:29:41and I wanted to dance for the common man,

0:29:41 > 0:29:45I didn't want to dance in white tie or tuxedo and dressed up.

0:29:45 > 0:29:49I wanted to roll up my sleeves and wear jeans and T-shirts.

0:29:49 > 0:29:52The nearest thing I could get to dancing shoes were loafers.

0:29:52 > 0:29:56And the white socks and the rolled-up jeans.

0:29:56 > 0:29:58And he's dancing from the streets.

0:29:58 > 0:30:00Like I was. I believe that.

0:30:00 > 0:30:02I was a teenager, and I was getting older.

0:30:02 > 0:30:05I started to really understand...

0:30:05 > 0:30:08the power of dance.

0:30:08 > 0:30:10The way he could spin, stop on a dime

0:30:10 > 0:30:14and point with such intensity - that's the power I'm talking about.

0:30:14 > 0:30:17And I'd perfect a certain amount of moves.

0:30:17 > 0:30:21There is beauty in simplicity, in really stripping things down,

0:30:21 > 0:30:23and I learned that from him.

0:30:23 > 0:30:25He impacted everything for me, absolutely.

0:30:25 > 0:30:26He impacted my game on the court,

0:30:26 > 0:30:29he impacted me now to this day in how I learn.

0:30:29 > 0:30:31Watching him was like something I'd never seen before.

0:30:31 > 0:30:34Um... It was something that was magical, that was creative,

0:30:34 > 0:30:37that seemed like something that I could mimic.

0:30:37 > 0:30:41That's how I found my love for dance before I found classical ballet.

0:30:41 > 0:30:43I used to ask him, "How much do you practise?"

0:30:43 > 0:30:47He said, "You know, I would dance until I can't dance no more."

0:30:47 > 0:30:48I said, "What do you mean?"

0:30:48 > 0:30:52He said, "I'd dance till my legs physically could not move."

0:30:52 > 0:30:57There's a lot of people who just don't have that same type of drive.

0:30:57 > 0:31:01You see it in an artist like Beyonce, that kind of drive.

0:31:01 > 0:31:04You know, a lot of times when it comes to black artists -

0:31:04 > 0:31:07it happened with Basquiat, with Miles Davis, with Michael Jackson -

0:31:07 > 0:31:09people talk about their kind of "natural gifts",

0:31:09 > 0:31:12as if there is not a strategy and skill and craft,

0:31:12 > 0:31:14as if Miles Davis didn't go to Juilliard,

0:31:14 > 0:31:17or Basquiat didn't know who Monet and Renoir were,

0:31:17 > 0:31:20or Michael Jackson hadn't been doing this his entire life.

0:31:20 > 0:31:24Some of my favourite writers are Johnny Mercer, Irving Berlin,

0:31:24 > 0:31:27George Gershwin, Duke Ellington, Count Basie...

0:31:27 > 0:31:30Oh, no, you gotta put the work in, man, you gotta put the time in.

0:31:30 > 0:31:33And really, man, it's love that you're putting in.

0:31:33 > 0:31:36You know, cos people that do this kind of stuff, man, we love what we do.

0:31:36 > 0:31:38This is dated November 6th, 1979.

0:31:38 > 0:31:41He was on the road with his brothers on the Destiny tour.

0:31:41 > 0:31:44"MJ will be my new name. No more Michael Jackson.

0:31:44 > 0:31:46"I want a whole new character, a whole new look.

0:31:46 > 0:31:48"I should be a totally different person.

0:31:48 > 0:31:50"People should never think of me

0:31:50 > 0:31:52"as the kid who sang ABC/I Want You Back.

0:31:52 > 0:31:55"I should be a new, incredible

0:31:55 > 0:31:57"actor-singer-dancer that will shock the world.

0:31:57 > 0:32:00"I will do no interviews. I will be magic.

0:32:00 > 0:32:03"I will be a perfectionist, a researcher, a trainer, a master.

0:32:03 > 0:32:07"I will be better than every great actor roped in one.

0:32:07 > 0:32:10"I must have the most incredible training system

0:32:10 > 0:32:13"to dig and dig and dig until I find.

0:32:13 > 0:32:16"I will study and look back on the whole world of entertainment

0:32:16 > 0:32:17"and perfect it,

0:32:17 > 0:32:21"take it steps further from where the greatest left off."

0:32:21 > 0:32:23You guys are really riding a big high now as far as

0:32:23 > 0:32:25producing records and so on.

0:32:25 > 0:32:27Do you think this is the peak of your career now, or have you

0:32:27 > 0:32:30gone down a little bit, or are you expecting bigger and better things?

0:32:30 > 0:32:34- What are you looking forward to in the future, Michael? - Recording other artists,

0:32:34 > 0:32:37and going into acting. We get a lot of scripts in, but...

0:32:37 > 0:32:40we haven't found the exact script that we want to use.

0:32:40 > 0:32:43- Mm-hm.- So we're picking and deciding.

0:32:43 > 0:32:45Think you may be a big movie star one day, huh?

0:32:45 > 0:32:47- Yeah, I'd like to give it a try. - Yeah.

0:32:47 > 0:32:50That's a good business to be in. You've got the looks, you know?

0:32:50 > 0:32:52Fortunately I didn't...

0:32:52 > 0:32:53- LAUGHTER - You know.

0:32:53 > 0:32:55- What? - LAUGHTER

0:32:56 > 0:33:00'With the advent of motion pictures came an abundance of Oz films.

0:33:00 > 0:33:04'A 1925 version starred Oliver Hardy as the tin man.

0:33:04 > 0:33:08'And who will ever forget the 1939 MGM musical version

0:33:08 > 0:33:10'starring Judy Garland?

0:33:10 > 0:33:13'In 1974, The Wiz opened on Broadway,

0:33:13 > 0:33:16'winning seven Tony awards.'

0:33:16 > 0:33:18I was a senior in high school.

0:33:19 > 0:33:23And there was this girl named Barbara Hampton who I liked.

0:33:23 > 0:33:25And I wanted to impress her.

0:33:25 > 0:33:29I was working at Baskin Robbins. I just saved my money,

0:33:29 > 0:33:31and I finally got up enough courage to ask her,

0:33:31 > 0:33:34"Would you like to go see The Wiz with me?

0:33:34 > 0:33:36"I got two great seats in the centre aisle."

0:33:36 > 0:33:38She said, "Nah, I don't think so."

0:33:38 > 0:33:40HE LAUGHS

0:33:42 > 0:33:43Scalped them.

0:33:43 > 0:33:45For double the price.

0:33:45 > 0:33:48I took Michael the first time to see The Wiz, he went back 30 more times.

0:33:48 > 0:33:51The Wiz, when it came out in 1978, was, er...

0:33:51 > 0:33:54You know, Lumet's movie adaptation

0:33:54 > 0:33:56of that great long-running play that was on Broadway

0:33:56 > 0:33:58with Stephanie Mills.

0:33:58 > 0:34:02# So it's real, real Real to me... #

0:34:02 > 0:34:05There was a great debate, at least in my neighbourhood,

0:34:05 > 0:34:06that Diana Ross was dope,

0:34:06 > 0:34:09but the only reason they cast her was cos she's Diana Ross.

0:34:09 > 0:34:11Stephanie Mills would have been a better fit for the film,

0:34:11 > 0:34:14but for whatever reason, she didn't get the job.

0:34:14 > 0:34:16We're not going to do it with an unknown young actress -

0:34:16 > 0:34:17we have to have star power

0:34:17 > 0:34:20to make it cross over.

0:34:20 > 0:34:25It also was the most expensive movie ever made

0:34:25 > 0:34:28with an all African-American cast.

0:34:28 > 0:34:31So because of Car Wash and Sparkle,

0:34:31 > 0:34:33you know, this happens in Hollywood,

0:34:33 > 0:34:36were you designated as the go-to guy for black material?

0:34:36 > 0:34:38- I was the black writer. - The black writer?

0:34:38 > 0:34:42And Sidney was probably the number one American director

0:34:42 > 0:34:45right then, cos he had done Serpico, Dog Day Afternoon,

0:34:45 > 0:34:48Network, Murder On The Orient Express, I think all in a row.

0:34:48 > 0:34:51He was king, and definitely king of New York.

0:34:51 > 0:34:54Michael was desperate to play the scarecrow.

0:34:54 > 0:34:57Always wanted to have a film career, there was some rumour that he was

0:34:57 > 0:35:00supposed to start in the Frankie Lymon story that never happened.

0:35:00 > 0:35:01The Wiz was supposed to be a huge film,

0:35:01 > 0:35:04Diana Ross, his long-time pal, is starring in it.

0:35:04 > 0:35:08He's no longer in Motown, and Michael called Berry Gordy.

0:35:08 > 0:35:12We were doing The Wiz, Rob Cohen was handling it...

0:35:12 > 0:35:15He was working for me at the time at Motown Productions.

0:35:15 > 0:35:17It would have been very easy for him to say,

0:35:17 > 0:35:19"Well, you know, Michael, you're gone now,

0:35:19 > 0:35:20- "and I can find somebody else." - Hell, no!

0:35:20 > 0:35:23Sidney was adamant that he didn't want Michael.

0:35:23 > 0:35:27He felt Michael was over, and had been a cute little kid,

0:35:27 > 0:35:31musical star, but hadn't grown into it, and I just said,

0:35:31 > 0:35:34"You're making a mistake, and I want you to meet him."

0:35:34 > 0:35:36Of course, Lumet fell in love with Michael.

0:35:36 > 0:35:39Michael may be the purest talent I've ever seen.

0:35:39 > 0:35:42He's incapable of a false moment,

0:35:42 > 0:35:46he's so true that anything around him has to become true.

0:35:46 > 0:35:48If you don't work honestly around him, you're going

0:35:48 > 0:35:50to look as if you're faking it.

0:35:50 > 0:35:53Well, yeah, he's all those things, plus this kid can dance

0:35:53 > 0:35:55and sing like nobody else.

0:35:55 > 0:35:58It was so obvious, the genius of this boy,

0:35:58 > 0:36:00I mean, it was so effortless.

0:36:00 > 0:36:02When I was real small, when I saw the original Wizard of Oz,

0:36:02 > 0:36:05the Judy Garland version, I always fell in love with the scarecrow.

0:36:05 > 0:36:08I think most kids do, because you feel sorry for him

0:36:08 > 0:36:09and everything, and he's so...

0:36:09 > 0:36:12his character, and I always watched them,

0:36:12 > 0:36:14as a matter of fact, I had the step down that they did

0:36:14 > 0:36:16when I was six, I would do it all around the house.

0:36:16 > 0:36:18# Follow the yellow brick road! #

0:36:18 > 0:36:19Ta-da! THEY GIGGLE

0:36:19 > 0:36:20Whoo! Come on, Dorothy!

0:36:20 > 0:36:22Come on!

0:36:22 > 0:36:23Whoo!

0:36:26 > 0:36:27# Come on and

0:36:27 > 0:36:30# Ease on down Ease on down the road

0:36:30 > 0:36:32# Come on

0:36:32 > 0:36:34# Ease on down Ease on down the road

0:36:34 > 0:36:38# Don't you carry nothing that might be a load

0:36:38 > 0:36:41# Come on, ease on down Ease on down, down the road... #

0:36:42 > 0:36:44As a matter of fact, that hill that we do

0:36:44 > 0:36:47Ease On Down The Road on was going uphill, and Diana and me,

0:36:47 > 0:36:50we were so out of breath, we had to do it a couple of times, really.

0:36:50 > 0:36:52I mean, it was going straight up!

0:36:52 > 0:36:54# ..keepin' on the road that you choose

0:36:54 > 0:36:56# Don't you give up walkin'

0:36:56 > 0:36:58# Cos you gave up shoes

0:36:58 > 0:36:59# Yeah... #

0:36:59 > 0:37:02He'd come in for a five-hour make-up call in the morning.

0:37:02 > 0:37:05Get the make-up out of the way, right on the case,

0:37:05 > 0:37:08he knew everybody's lines, everybody's songs,

0:37:08 > 0:37:11he knew everybody's position, and he stood there almost at attention.

0:37:11 > 0:37:15And I saw this uncanny-type discipline in such a young person.

0:37:15 > 0:37:16Quincy, of course, was the musical director,

0:37:16 > 0:37:18he was doing the score for The Wiz.

0:37:18 > 0:37:20And you see him for a minute, right,

0:37:20 > 0:37:22you see him for a minute conducting the band in the movie,

0:37:22 > 0:37:26and I was a Quincy fan, you know, Smackwater Jack,

0:37:26 > 0:37:29Walking In Space, Body Heat, all that stuff.

0:37:29 > 0:37:31The Wiz seemed like a great combination

0:37:31 > 0:37:32of all these things that he could do.

0:37:32 > 0:37:36Lumet was very happy to have Quincy. We all were.

0:37:36 > 0:37:39That just kind of guaranteed the musical portion

0:37:39 > 0:37:42would hit a strong popular chord.

0:37:42 > 0:37:44He didn't actually have a feature number in the film

0:37:44 > 0:37:46when they hired him.

0:37:46 > 0:37:50They didn't know about the dancing, a lot of things, and...

0:37:50 > 0:37:53Eventually everybody came to understand what it was all about.

0:37:53 > 0:37:55# You can't win

0:37:55 > 0:37:57# You can't break even

0:37:57 > 0:38:00# And you can't get out of the game

0:38:00 > 0:38:04# People keep saying things are gonna change

0:38:04 > 0:38:08# But they look just like they're staying the same... #

0:38:08 > 0:38:10But I don't think they showed enough of his dancing.

0:38:10 > 0:38:14The real night that Off The Wall was born...

0:38:14 > 0:38:17We were doing the pre-records for the movie.

0:38:17 > 0:38:22Quincy had, like, tunnel vision on Diana Ross.

0:38:22 > 0:38:24Finally, about 2am...

0:38:24 > 0:38:28Er... Q had what he wanted from Diana, and he goes, "OK, Michael,

0:38:28 > 0:38:30"you come in on bar six."

0:38:30 > 0:38:33- And Michael starts, like, at 1,000 watts. - # Whoo! Whoo! Ah!

0:38:33 > 0:38:35- And he's doing everything... - # Ooh! #

0:38:35 > 0:38:38..that became the signature Michael Jackson.

0:38:38 > 0:38:39Whoo! Aah!

0:38:39 > 0:38:40HE LAUGHS

0:38:40 > 0:38:41- Come on, Dorothy!- He was...

0:38:41 > 0:38:46And it was like a lioness who just suddenly sees a baby goat.

0:38:46 > 0:38:47HE LAUGHS

0:38:47 > 0:38:49It was just...zoom!

0:38:49 > 0:38:53The more I knew him, the more I became fascinated with

0:38:53 > 0:38:55the idea of maybe working with him.

0:38:55 > 0:38:57It was a lot of fun working with all the greats -

0:38:57 > 0:39:00Sidney Lumet, Quincy Jones, everybody.

0:39:00 > 0:39:05I may be, I don't know, one of the few people who really loved The Wiz.

0:39:05 > 0:39:08There's some great representation on film that we hadn't seen before.

0:39:08 > 0:39:11When The Wiz came out, I was seven years old.

0:39:11 > 0:39:14That was an event for black America.

0:39:14 > 0:39:17I can't speak for all of New York City, I can't speak for

0:39:17 > 0:39:19all of the country, but everybody in my neighbourhood

0:39:19 > 0:39:22in Harlem was going to see The Wiz because of Mike Jackson.

0:39:22 > 0:39:25So this is a big moment for Michael Jackson, he gets to

0:39:25 > 0:39:29fulfil his acting desires and he's finally in a big Hollywood film.

0:39:29 > 0:39:32So he and his sister La Toya moved to New York.

0:39:32 > 0:39:34I found him an apartment on 400 East 56th Street

0:39:34 > 0:39:36off First Avenue.

0:39:36 > 0:39:38In the summer of '77, a legendary summer, there were blackouts,

0:39:38 > 0:39:41there was a serial killer, David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam,

0:39:41 > 0:39:44who was doing all these random killings, people were terrified.

0:39:44 > 0:39:48The first summer of disco, it was the time in which all of these

0:39:48 > 0:39:52nascent music forms were coming up - punk, hip-hop, disco was huge.

0:39:52 > 0:39:54And there are all these different elements that were

0:39:54 > 0:39:57happening in New York at the same time that were sort of

0:39:57 > 0:39:59coming in contact with each other or clashing with each other.

0:39:59 > 0:40:01I have a feeling that's probably where he first heard

0:40:01 > 0:40:04a lot of early hip-hop, the beatboxing that he was basically

0:40:04 > 0:40:06doing on a song like Working Day and Night. Even though

0:40:06 > 0:40:09he was only 19, he was going to Studio 54 on a regular basis.

0:40:09 > 0:40:12Perhaps you've heard the name Studio 54.

0:40:12 > 0:40:16It attracts the rich, the famous, the glamorous and the powerful.

0:40:16 > 0:40:18They come to this disco palace in New York City

0:40:18 > 0:40:20just about any night of the week.

0:40:20 > 0:40:22He was making all kinds of eccentric and unusual friends that,

0:40:22 > 0:40:25you know, now we see the photos of and it looks really strange.

0:40:25 > 0:40:27He's hanging out with Liza Minnelli.

0:40:27 > 0:40:28Hi, sweetheart!

0:40:28 > 0:40:32- You're just hanging out in New York? - Yes, Studio 54.- Come here a lot?

0:40:32 > 0:40:35- Oh, God, yes.- Why?- Because I like the atmosphere at Studio 54.

0:40:35 > 0:40:38I've been to a lot of discotheques and I don't like them.

0:40:38 > 0:40:39What's the difference?

0:40:39 > 0:40:42I don't know, the feeling, I mean, the excitement of the props

0:40:42 > 0:40:46coming down and the balcony, it's just exciting, honestly!

0:40:46 > 0:40:51I'm certain that his experience and going to Studio 54 during the

0:40:51 > 0:40:53filming of The Wiz

0:40:53 > 0:40:57played a big part in where he wanted this album played.

0:40:57 > 0:41:00It doesn't mean he wanted to make a disco record.

0:41:00 > 0:41:02He is a dancer, he's a marvellous dancer.

0:41:02 > 0:41:04He's an influential, innovative dancer.

0:41:04 > 0:41:06Why do you dance for fun?

0:41:06 > 0:41:09Because you're just being free then.

0:41:09 > 0:41:12Most of the time it's set choreography when were on stage,

0:41:12 > 0:41:14stuff you have to do every night.

0:41:14 > 0:41:17When you dance here, you're just free, you dance with whoever

0:41:17 > 0:41:19you want to, you just go wild!

0:41:19 > 0:41:22What about the craziness? It gets crazy and wild...

0:41:22 > 0:41:24No, it doesn't.

0:41:24 > 0:41:27No, not only is it fun to dance, it's fun to look at,

0:41:27 > 0:41:29you know, other people.

0:41:29 > 0:41:31You walk around and you see all kinds of things,

0:41:31 > 0:41:33like Darth Vader was here the other night!

0:41:33 > 0:41:34It was incredible.

0:41:34 > 0:41:37I'm sure he was making these observations

0:41:37 > 0:41:39of what was going on around him.

0:41:39 > 0:41:42He was kind of self-conscious about himself and kind of shy.

0:41:42 > 0:41:45So he wasn't trying to be around all the wildness, all the freakiness.

0:41:45 > 0:41:47You know what I'm saying?

0:41:47 > 0:41:49He would go in the DJ booth and just watch people

0:41:49 > 0:41:52and make these mental notes. And I'm sure musical notes also.

0:41:52 > 0:41:55I think all of this shows up on Off The Wall because it's certainly

0:41:55 > 0:41:57one of the most sensual albums he ever released.

0:41:57 > 0:42:00It contains the sort of exuberance and the sexuality.

0:42:00 > 0:42:03It's where you come when you want to escape. It's really escapism.

0:42:03 > 0:42:07When we left Motown, you know, a certain amount of hours

0:42:07 > 0:42:10for The Jacksons and a certain amount for me as a solo artist.

0:42:10 > 0:42:12He's coming out as an autonomous figure,

0:42:12 > 0:42:15separate from his father, separate from his brothers,

0:42:15 > 0:42:18and really establishing himself as a solo act.

0:42:31 > 0:42:33I mean, there was some speculation, you know,

0:42:33 > 0:42:35would Quincy be the right guy?

0:42:35 > 0:42:37He's a jazz guy, would he be... You know.

0:42:37 > 0:42:40They didn't think that he could make him a contemporary hit record

0:42:40 > 0:42:42that everybody in the whole world would like.

0:42:42 > 0:42:46Well, I don't think it's possible to sit down and try to intellectualise

0:42:46 > 0:42:49or theorise about how you can make a record that can appeal

0:42:49 > 0:42:51to many, many people.

0:42:51 > 0:42:53The people in this room, you know, it's very difficult to try

0:42:53 > 0:42:56and make a record that everybody in this room would like.

0:42:56 > 0:42:58The label had other ideas about who he should go with.

0:42:58 > 0:43:01They wanted Maurice White, was one of the people,

0:43:01 > 0:43:03and they also wanted Gamble and Huff to work with him.

0:43:03 > 0:43:06Michael came back all teary-eyed one day and said,

0:43:06 > 0:43:09"The people at Epic don't want to use you. They said you're too jazzy,

0:43:09 > 0:43:12"you know, you don't understand this kind of music."

0:43:12 > 0:43:14But they don't know, you know, these guys don't know.

0:43:14 > 0:43:18The A&R men, they're A&R men, they don't know!

0:43:18 > 0:43:22Thank God he went back with Freddy DeMann and Ron Weiser

0:43:22 > 0:43:25and they fought and they said, "He's doing it."

0:43:25 > 0:43:27Quincy called me one day and said,

0:43:27 > 0:43:32"we're going to do Michael Jackson's album, his first solo album,"

0:43:32 > 0:43:36and I thought to myself, "Holy cow, I better get serious."

0:43:36 > 0:43:40Cos I don't get those kind of calls very often.

0:43:40 > 0:43:44When you discover Off The Wall for the first time, forget all the

0:43:44 > 0:43:47music for a second, let's just talk about the sonics, the sound of it.

0:43:47 > 0:43:52The sonic of that album stands up against any album right now, period.

0:43:52 > 0:43:56Because it's raw, it was before drum machines,

0:43:56 > 0:43:58before heavy computer programming.

0:43:58 > 0:44:02Making an album is totally different today than what it was,

0:44:02 > 0:44:04because when we made those albums back in the day,

0:44:04 > 0:44:06we had live musicians, live drummer.

0:44:06 > 0:44:09That's where you get magic, you know? You get a little bit of magic.

0:44:09 > 0:44:12And somebody's playing just a little bit under or something like that,

0:44:12 > 0:44:14- that's all part of making the record breathe.- That's the pulse.

0:44:14 > 0:44:18Yeah, it's the pulse, yeah. Today everything is right on.

0:44:18 > 0:44:21Everything is right-on today.

0:44:21 > 0:44:25These were, like, living, breathing recordings that...

0:44:25 > 0:44:26were for the dance floor.

0:44:26 > 0:44:28I mean, machines are great, but...

0:44:28 > 0:44:31incredible musicians, I feel like, beat it every time.

0:44:31 > 0:44:34I'm always telling engineers, like, "You better study and listen.

0:44:34 > 0:44:37"If they were able to accomplish that type of fullness

0:44:37 > 0:44:40"and that type of sound... they were able to do that then,

0:44:40 > 0:44:42"you better be able to do something great now...

0:44:42 > 0:44:43"or you're fired."

0:44:43 > 0:44:46What Quincy has is an extraordinary history.

0:44:46 > 0:44:49- He's leading the band behind Count Basie.- Working with Frank Sinatra.

0:44:49 > 0:44:53- Sammy Davis Junior.- Pawnbroker. - Heat of the Night.- Sanford & Son.

0:44:53 > 0:44:56He studied in France under a great orchestration.

0:44:56 > 0:44:59Nadia Boulanger, who taught Ravel.

0:44:59 > 0:45:03He's unlimited musically, he can... You want anything, he can do it.

0:45:03 > 0:45:09Jazz, folk, pop, classical, soul, gospel, anything.

0:45:09 > 0:45:12Michael wrote three songs on the Off The Wall album -

0:45:12 > 0:45:15Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough, Working Day And Night

0:45:15 > 0:45:16and Get On The Floor.

0:45:16 > 0:45:19He wanted the freedom to develop as an artist

0:45:19 > 0:45:22and writing these three songs was very important to him.

0:45:22 > 0:45:23# Don't stop 'til you get enough

0:45:23 > 0:45:25# Keep on with your heart don't stop

0:45:25 > 0:45:27# Don't stop 'til you get enough

0:45:27 > 0:45:31# Keep on with your heart Don't stop... #

0:45:31 > 0:45:34The demos are kind of a revelation, in that they really illuminate

0:45:34 > 0:45:38Michael's abilities as a songwriter and show

0:45:38 > 0:45:42how developed his songs were when he brought them to Quincy Jones.

0:45:42 > 0:45:45You really see Michael's rhythmic sophistication.

0:45:45 > 0:45:48Dum-dum-du-dum. Dum-dum-du-dum.

0:45:48 > 0:45:49That's what did it.

0:45:49 > 0:45:53Boom-boom-da-doom. That's the phrase that pays.

0:45:53 > 0:45:55That's the hook right there.

0:45:55 > 0:45:59Michael ain't got to say a word yet, they could play that bassline

0:45:59 > 0:46:02and they can run it, nonstop. And we're good.

0:46:02 > 0:46:05The opening bars of the record is just like,

0:46:05 > 0:46:08you could be playing the worst set of your life,

0:46:08 > 0:46:12or at a wedding, at a club, and... "dum-dum..." it's just like, "Ah!"

0:46:12 > 0:46:15You kind of get this little tick that's going on,

0:46:15 > 0:46:18anybody, they just down for it,

0:46:18 > 0:46:21even the guys try to be hard, like...

0:46:21 > 0:46:22You know, you just in there!

0:46:24 > 0:46:26You know, I was, I was wondering, you know,

0:46:26 > 0:46:28if you could keep on,

0:46:28 > 0:46:33because the force, it's got a lot of power,

0:46:33 > 0:46:35and it make me feel like, ah...

0:46:35 > 0:46:37it make me feel like...

0:46:37 > 0:46:38oooh!

0:46:45 > 0:46:48# Lovely

0:46:49 > 0:46:52# Is the feelin' now

0:46:53 > 0:46:55# Fever

0:46:56 > 0:46:59# Temperature's risin' now

0:47:01 > 0:47:04- # Power- Ah, power

0:47:04 > 0:47:07# Is the force, the vow

0:47:08 > 0:47:12# That makes it happen

0:47:12 > 0:47:15# It asks no questions why... #

0:47:15 > 0:47:20It's the song I use to reset my day, it's the song that I use

0:47:20 > 0:47:22when I need to be motivated,

0:47:22 > 0:47:25it's my absolute favourite Michael Jackson song.

0:47:25 > 0:47:28"These are my own songs, I'm going to communicate my own thoughts,

0:47:28 > 0:47:30"my own emotions, my own ideas,

0:47:30 > 0:47:33"my own rhythmic sensibility..."

0:47:33 > 0:47:36Vocal trademarks - you hear a lot of that in these songs,

0:47:36 > 0:47:38completely uninhibited.

0:47:38 > 0:47:42You feel his energy coming through because you feel that freedom.

0:47:42 > 0:47:43"Oooh!"

0:47:43 > 0:47:45That's the first time we heard that iconic yell.

0:47:45 > 0:47:47That's his "free at last!"

0:47:47 > 0:47:50I was in Buffalo with you, fantastic show, you darn near blinded me

0:47:50 > 0:47:52there, man, that thing is dynamite

0:47:52 > 0:47:54when you come out, they have to see that, you jumping out of there.

0:47:54 > 0:47:56Oh, "Don't Stop".

0:47:56 > 0:47:57Ooh!

0:48:06 > 0:48:09Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough had this kind of, this opening groove,

0:48:09 > 0:48:10and the opening groove

0:48:10 > 0:48:14kind of sets you off, if you were a dancer, you let that sink in.

0:48:14 > 0:48:18I always use Michael first and foremost as a vocal inspiration.

0:48:18 > 0:48:20And Off The Wall was definitely

0:48:20 > 0:48:22the one that made me feel like I could sing.

0:48:22 > 0:48:24I found my falsetto because of Off The Wall,

0:48:24 > 0:48:25Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough.

0:48:25 > 0:48:28# Lovely

0:48:28 > 0:48:30# Is the feelin' now

0:48:32 > 0:48:34# Fever

0:48:35 > 0:48:37# Temperature's risin' now

0:48:39 > 0:48:41# Power

0:48:42 > 0:48:44# Is the force, the vow

0:48:45 > 0:48:48# That makes it happen

0:48:48 > 0:48:51# It asks no questions why... #

0:48:51 > 0:48:54And it had these bizarre lyrics, to me, bizarre lyrics

0:48:54 > 0:48:56that were quoting Star Wars.

0:48:56 > 0:49:00I didn't even know he was saying, "Keep on with the force don't stop,"

0:49:00 > 0:49:01I thought it was about forks.

0:49:01 > 0:49:03When I was a kid I was like, "Keep on with the forks!"

0:49:03 > 0:49:05I didn't know what the forks were!

0:49:15 > 0:49:18HE BEATBOXES

0:49:53 > 0:49:55Ow!

0:50:08 > 0:50:09Woo!

0:50:11 > 0:50:15I remember the video, I mean, he just looked like a million dollars.

0:50:15 > 0:50:18I think that's before they had a million dollars to spend.

0:50:18 > 0:50:22So it was done for relatively a small amount of money,

0:50:22 > 0:50:25and yet he had to single-handedly sell it.

0:50:25 > 0:50:29# There ain't nothing that you can do

0:50:30 > 0:50:33# Relax your mind

0:50:33 > 0:50:37# Lay back and groove with mine

0:50:37 > 0:50:39# You gotta feel that heat

0:50:39 > 0:50:42# And we can ride the boogie

0:50:42 > 0:50:45# Share that beat of love

0:50:45 > 0:50:50- # I wanna rock with you - All night

0:50:50 > 0:50:53- # Dance you into day- Sunlight

0:50:53 > 0:50:57- # I wanna rock with you - All night

0:50:57 > 0:51:01# We're gonna rock the night away... #

0:51:01 > 0:51:03That was the skaters' anthem.

0:51:03 > 0:51:07There was a skate obsession in the United States in '79, '80,

0:51:07 > 0:51:10where it was like, "I'm going to roller-skate!"

0:51:10 > 0:51:14A good song to roller-skate should feel like the floor to your skates,

0:51:14 > 0:51:18it should be the foundation for all of that...flowing.

0:51:18 > 0:51:21# Just take it slow

0:51:22 > 0:51:25# Cos we got so far to go

0:51:25 > 0:51:28# When you feel that heat

0:51:28 > 0:51:30# And we're going to ride the boogie

0:51:30 > 0:51:33# Share that beat of love

0:51:33 > 0:51:38- # I wanna rock with you - All night

0:51:38 > 0:51:41- # Dance you into day- Sunlight

0:51:41 > 0:51:46- # I wanna rock with you - All night

0:51:46 > 0:51:50# Gonna rock the night away... #

0:51:50 > 0:51:52Rock With You seemed like there was symbolism behind the video.

0:51:52 > 0:51:56They had a halo around the angels, the shiny suit,

0:51:56 > 0:51:57he made that look cool.

0:51:57 > 0:51:59I could never pull that off.

0:51:59 > 0:52:03I can listen to Rock With You and know where I was

0:52:03 > 0:52:05the first time I heard it, at Pegasus.

0:52:05 > 0:52:10When that song came on, people just stopped in the club.

0:52:10 > 0:52:13They just...froze.

0:52:13 > 0:52:15You know... And then slowly,

0:52:15 > 0:52:17one by one, they got on the dance floor.

0:52:20 > 0:52:25- # I wanna rock with you - All night

0:52:25 > 0:52:27- # Girl- Sunlight

0:52:27 > 0:52:31- # Yes, rock with you Rock with you, yeah- All night

0:52:31 > 0:52:34# Rock the night away

0:52:34 > 0:52:38- # I wanna rock with you- All night

0:52:38 > 0:52:42- # Dance you into day- Sunlight

0:52:42 > 0:52:45# I wanna rock with you, yes

0:52:45 > 0:52:48# Rock the night away

0:52:48 > 0:52:52- # Just feel that beat, feel the beat - All night

0:52:52 > 0:52:56- # Rock you into day- Sunlight

0:52:56 > 0:53:00- # I wanna rock- All night

0:53:00 > 0:53:02# Rock the night away

0:53:02 > 0:53:04# Put 'em in the pocket, yeah

0:53:04 > 0:53:08- # I wanna rock it, rock it, rock it - All night

0:53:08 > 0:53:12- # I wanna rock it, rock it, rock it - Sunlight

0:53:12 > 0:53:15- # I wanna rock it, rock it, rock it - All night

0:53:17 > 0:53:20# I wanna rock with you

0:53:20 > 0:53:23# Come on, girl

0:53:23 > 0:53:26# Rock with me, come on and...

0:53:26 > 0:53:29# Heeeee... #

0:53:30 > 0:53:35It's up-tempo but it's smooth. That's fast. That's fast.

0:53:35 > 0:53:40It's hard to make up-tempo music where you can dance

0:53:40 > 0:53:42and be emotional at the same time.

0:53:42 > 0:53:44Most people just get into a groove

0:53:44 > 0:53:47so most of the time you don't get that much of a real song there,

0:53:47 > 0:53:51so they don't stand up as well as a good storytelling ballad.

0:53:51 > 0:53:55Through the years, you want stuff that's going to have legs, hold on,

0:53:55 > 0:53:57and his up-tempo really does hold on

0:53:57 > 0:54:02because he really crafted a real song on top of a great groove.

0:54:02 > 0:54:06I loop that breathing exercise on Working Day And Night,

0:54:06 > 0:54:10I loop that for at least a minute before I let that song go.

0:54:10 > 0:54:15Like, I hold people at bay, like I'm holding back 12 pit bulls...

0:54:15 > 0:54:17get 'em!

0:54:17 > 0:54:18Ow!

0:54:27 > 0:54:29I'm embarrassed to even say this

0:54:29 > 0:54:34but I used to dance by myself... Ha! ..to that song.

0:54:38 > 0:54:40# Uh ah

0:54:40 > 0:54:42# Uh ah

0:54:49 > 0:54:50# Ooh ah

0:54:50 > 0:54:52# Ooh, my honey

0:54:52 > 0:54:56# You got me workin' day and night, ah

0:54:56 > 0:54:59# Ooh, my sugar

0:54:59 > 0:55:03# You got me workin' day and night, ah

0:55:03 > 0:55:05# Scratch my shoulder

0:55:05 > 0:55:09# It's aching, make it feel all right, ah

0:55:09 > 0:55:12# When this is over

0:55:12 > 0:55:16# Lovin' you will be so right, ah, uh

0:55:16 > 0:55:20# I often wonder if lovin' you will be tonight

0:55:20 > 0:55:22# Well, uh

0:55:22 > 0:55:25# But what is love, girl

0:55:25 > 0:55:28# If I'm always out of sight, ooh!

0:55:28 > 0:55:32# That's why you got me workin' day and night

0:55:32 > 0:55:36# And I'll be workin' From sun up to midnight... #

0:55:36 > 0:55:37# You got me working day and night. #

0:55:37 > 0:55:39# You got me working Working day and night. #

0:55:39 > 0:55:42You could tell where he was rhythmically

0:55:42 > 0:55:44just by the ones he was writing.

0:55:44 > 0:55:47Really catchy, rhythmic dance songs.

0:55:49 > 0:55:53Michael's reference is certainly American R&B and soul and funk,

0:55:53 > 0:55:56but I also hear Africa in there.

0:55:56 > 0:55:57You have to also remember

0:55:57 > 0:55:59The Jackson 5 toured Africa in the '70s.

0:55:59 > 0:56:03# You got me workin' day and night

0:56:03 > 0:56:05- # And I'll be workin'- Everybody!

0:56:05 > 0:56:06# From sun up to midnight

0:56:06 > 0:56:10- # You got me workin' Workin' day and night- Oh, no!

0:56:10 > 0:56:11# You got me workin'

0:56:11 > 0:56:13- # Workin' day and night - I'm so tired, tired

0:56:13 > 0:56:16# You got me workin' Workin' day and night... #

0:56:16 > 0:56:19- It's crazy... - MIMICS HORN LINE

0:56:19 > 0:56:23That was just the high watermark of horn lines to me.

0:56:37 > 0:56:41There was all these instrumental stretches and breaks in these songs

0:56:41 > 0:56:43that give the musicians some shine too.

0:56:43 > 0:56:47- David had this certain sound... - That bite. He bent it...

0:56:47 > 0:56:49He hit 'em so hard.

0:56:49 > 0:56:51OK, David! You got this!

0:57:32 > 0:57:33Sometimes he would take it upon himself

0:57:33 > 0:57:36to bring the rhythm that he wanted and that really influenced me.

0:57:36 > 0:57:39He always had an idea of what he wanted every instrument

0:57:39 > 0:57:42to sound like, that's how he recorded.

0:57:42 > 0:57:44You came in a studio and he told the guitar player...

0:57:44 > 0:57:47SHE MIMICS "Working Day And Night"

0:57:47 > 0:57:50He would sing every part.

0:57:53 > 0:57:55He didn't play it. But he can sing it.

0:57:55 > 0:57:57And if you didn't play like he sang it,

0:57:57 > 0:58:00he would sing it till you played it like he sang it.

0:58:00 > 0:58:02Goddammit.

0:58:02 > 0:58:04I do believe deeply in perfection.

0:58:04 > 0:58:08I'm never satisfied. I'll cut a track, go back and back and back,

0:58:08 > 0:58:11"Darn it, I should have done this!" It's number one on the charts,

0:58:11 > 0:58:13still screaming about what you should have done.

0:58:13 > 0:58:15It's evident...when you see somebody's work,

0:58:15 > 0:58:18you can see the details and if they actually truly love what they do.

0:58:18 > 0:58:20If they really do pay attention to the craft.

0:58:20 > 0:58:22Perfection was the name of the game,

0:58:22 > 0:58:25it's about the content of what you do.

0:58:25 > 0:58:28The quality, the heart, the soul, the love.

0:58:28 > 0:58:32I think this generation, the perception has become skewed.

0:58:32 > 0:58:34The love for the craft

0:58:34 > 0:58:38will come secondary to the love of fame and notoriety.

0:58:38 > 0:58:40My generation - the Jordan generation,

0:58:40 > 0:58:42Bird, Magic, Michael Jackson.

0:58:42 > 0:58:46They focused on what they loved to do.

0:58:46 > 0:58:49One of the hidden gems is Get On The Floor.

0:58:49 > 0:58:54Which was co-penned by Louis Johnson and co-written with Michael.

0:58:54 > 0:58:57I don't know if everybody knows this but you're also a composer.

0:58:57 > 0:59:01One of my favourites was Michael Jackson's Get On The Floor.

0:59:01 > 0:59:04Originally that song was created by the bass, I just had that groove.

0:59:25 > 0:59:27There were routines in the playground

0:59:27 > 0:59:30and you know, I'm dating myself, OK,

0:59:30 > 0:59:32but you would bring the little radio,

0:59:32 > 0:59:36or sometimes if you were really tacky, you would bring the portable

0:59:36 > 0:59:41record player, plop it down in the park, drop the needle, heck yeah.

0:59:42 > 0:59:45If you were dancing to that song,

0:59:45 > 0:59:47more than likely you were going home with somebody.

0:59:47 > 0:59:50Because that's not a song you dance on your own to.

0:59:50 > 0:59:53You don't dance to Get On The Floor by yourself.

0:59:53 > 0:59:55# Dance across the floor

0:59:57 > 0:59:59# Cos there's a chance for chances

0:59:59 > 1:00:01# And the chance is choosin'

1:00:01 > 1:00:05# And I sure would like just to groove with you

1:00:05 > 1:00:07# So get on the floor

1:00:09 > 1:00:11# And dance with me... #

1:00:11 > 1:00:14Off The Wall is a DJ's dream.

1:00:14 > 1:00:18The A-side seems to have been tailor-made for the dance floor.

1:00:18 > 1:00:20You basically have five songs.

1:00:20 > 1:00:23The first four songs on side one,

1:00:23 > 1:00:26and the first song on side two, Off The Wall.

1:00:26 > 1:00:29My favourite record on Off The Wall -

1:00:29 > 1:00:30I like Off The Wall.

1:00:30 > 1:00:32That's one of my favourite records.

1:00:32 > 1:00:35I took a chance with a composer

1:00:35 > 1:00:37that I have loved his work for a long time,

1:00:37 > 1:00:41and I could never figure out how he could be from Grimsby, England,

1:00:41 > 1:00:44living in Worms, Germany, and understand Ain't No Half-Steppin,

1:00:44 > 1:00:47you know, and all those different terms that he was writing.

1:00:47 > 1:00:49Just incredible talent.

1:00:49 > 1:00:51He ended up in Germany, and being turned on to soul music

1:00:51 > 1:00:53by a bunch of the black army people that were there.

1:00:53 > 1:00:55- INTERVIEWER: Black American soldiers?- Yeah.

1:00:55 > 1:00:58And going, "Wow, this is a lot more interesting than what I'm doing,

1:00:58 > 1:01:00"and girls come to these shows."

1:01:00 > 1:01:01In early Heatwave,

1:01:01 > 1:01:04you can hear those influences

1:01:04 > 1:01:05in songs he wrote for Michael.

1:01:05 > 1:01:07I mean, it's just a natural progression.

1:01:07 > 1:01:10We recorded Burn This Disco Out,

1:01:10 > 1:01:13Off The Wall, and Rock With You.

1:01:13 > 1:01:14Wow.

1:01:14 > 1:01:15HE LAUGHS

1:01:15 > 1:01:17Rod Temperton did good.

1:01:17 > 1:01:20Off The Wall is an example of him bringing that

1:01:20 > 1:01:24slightly, like, proggy fusion aspect to it.

1:01:24 > 1:01:26It's a really unconventional start for a disco record,

1:01:26 > 1:01:29especially, like, the title track of an album, it starts with that.

1:01:29 > 1:01:31It starts on the offbeat, it starts on the two,

1:01:31 > 1:01:34it has that weird vocal thing in the background.

1:01:34 > 1:01:35It's totally proggy.

1:01:35 > 1:01:37That intro with the kind of ghoulish voices and so on.

1:01:37 > 1:01:39You start to hear that again, of course, on Thriller,

1:01:39 > 1:01:41with the Vincent Price.

1:01:47 > 1:01:50# When the world is on your shoulder

1:01:51 > 1:01:54# Gotta straighten up your act and boogie down

1:01:54 > 1:01:57# If you can't get with the feeling

1:01:58 > 1:02:01# Then there ain't no-one who's gonna put you down

1:02:01 > 1:02:05# Cos we're the party people night and day

1:02:05 > 1:02:08# Livin' crazy, that's the only way

1:02:08 > 1:02:09# So tonight

1:02:09 > 1:02:13# Gotta leave that nine to five up on the shelf

1:02:13 > 1:02:15# And just enjoy yourself

1:02:15 > 1:02:17# Groove

1:02:17 > 1:02:19# Let the madness in the music get to you

1:02:19 > 1:02:22# Life ain't so bad at all

1:02:22 > 1:02:24# If you live it off the wall

1:02:24 > 1:02:26# Life ain't so bad at all

1:02:26 > 1:02:28# Ooh

1:02:28 > 1:02:30- # Live your life off the wall - Yeah

1:02:31 > 1:02:33# Do what you want to do

1:02:33 > 1:02:35# There ain't no rules

1:02:35 > 1:02:38- # It's up to you - Ain't no rules, it's all up to you

1:02:38 > 1:02:41# It's time to come alive

1:02:41 > 1:02:45# And party on right through the night. #

1:02:48 > 1:02:53Girlfriend was a song on the London Town album by Paul McCartney.

1:02:53 > 1:02:55"Girlfriend, I'mma tell your boyfriend."

1:02:55 > 1:02:57- SHE LAUGHS - Love it.

1:02:57 > 1:02:59# Girlfriend

1:02:59 > 1:03:03# I'm gonna tell your boyfriend

1:03:03 > 1:03:05# Yeah... #

1:03:05 > 1:03:08I felt like Michael was singing to me on that one, I did.

1:03:08 > 1:03:11If we go out together and a bunch of girls start following me,

1:03:11 > 1:03:14let's hear what you'd say to them to make them go away.

1:03:14 > 1:03:17Get away from him. He's mine, not yours.

1:03:17 > 1:03:20LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

1:03:23 > 1:03:28Um, same question, number two.

1:03:28 > 1:03:32Yo, listen, OK? Michael Jackson is mine!

1:03:32 > 1:03:34LAUGHTER

1:03:36 > 1:03:39Some of the songs that I sing, my favourite is ballads -

1:03:39 > 1:03:42I kind of listen to the words,

1:03:42 > 1:03:44and it's really relating something.

1:03:44 > 1:03:47I wrote She's Out Of My Life as a result of being

1:03:47 > 1:03:50very much in love with a wonderful young woman.

1:03:50 > 1:03:53You ever get so upset that you're speaking to yourself out loud?

1:03:53 > 1:03:57Well, I was. I was in the car, on the Pasadena freeway,

1:03:57 > 1:03:59and I'm saying, "Man, she was there for you,

1:03:59 > 1:04:01"she loved you, she wanted to marry you.

1:04:01 > 1:04:05"You're the one who said no. Face it, she's out of your life."

1:04:05 > 1:04:08Saturday morning, the phone rings, and it's Q, and he says,

1:04:08 > 1:04:10"Hey, man, you been writing?" And I played the song,

1:04:10 > 1:04:13and it's ringing out, and he said, "Play it again."

1:04:13 > 1:04:15I played it again. Played it eight times in a row.

1:04:15 > 1:04:18At the end of it he said, "What are you going to do with it?"

1:04:18 > 1:04:20I said, "Well, I made a deal with Snuffy yesterday.

1:04:20 > 1:04:22"He's going to do it with Sinatra."

1:04:22 > 1:04:24And he says, this Q-ism,

1:04:24 > 1:04:26"Sinatra'll do it anyway." And I said,

1:04:26 > 1:04:28"OK, Q, then who do you want to do it with?"

1:04:28 > 1:04:31He said, "I haven't got a clue." He said, "Man, if you'll trust me,

1:04:31 > 1:04:34"I promise you

1:04:34 > 1:04:37"an unforgettable recording of this song."

1:04:39 > 1:04:41And we sat on it for almost two years, Spike.

1:04:41 > 1:04:44To write a great ballad, first of all, lyrically,

1:04:44 > 1:04:47the content has to connect, and to me,

1:04:47 > 1:04:49part of what makes a song connect

1:04:49 > 1:04:51is that it's personal,

1:04:51 > 1:04:53but it's also universal.

1:04:53 > 1:04:57Michael Jackson - yes, he was a great entertainer,

1:04:57 > 1:04:58he was a great dancer,

1:04:58 > 1:05:00but he was also a great singer.

1:05:00 > 1:05:02Not a good singer, but a great singer.

1:05:02 > 1:05:05I liked his performance on She's Out Of My Life.

1:05:06 > 1:05:08It was really emotional.

1:05:08 > 1:05:12The quality of Michael's voice

1:05:12 > 1:05:15was so incredibly pure.

1:05:15 > 1:05:19# She's out of my life

1:05:22 > 1:05:27# She's out of my life

1:05:29 > 1:05:35# And I don't know whether to laugh or cry

1:05:37 > 1:05:42# I don't know whether to live or die

1:05:42 > 1:05:47# And it cuts like a knife

1:05:47 > 1:05:53# She's out of my life. #

1:05:53 > 1:05:57I cried every time that he performed She's Out Of My Life,

1:05:57 > 1:05:59and he would cry, too.

1:05:59 > 1:06:01Everyone relates She's Out Of My Life to Eddie Murphy, right?

1:06:01 > 1:06:05Anyone who was growing up in the '80s - we saw Delirious first.

1:06:05 > 1:06:07That's Michael's hook, is his sensitivity.

1:06:07 > 1:06:10Lots of women be saying, "Michael's just so sensitive."

1:06:10 > 1:06:11LAUGHTER

1:06:11 > 1:06:13They eat that shit up. Mike knows, too. He be using women.

1:06:13 > 1:06:16In concerts I've seen Mike walk up to girls in the audience and say...

1:06:16 > 1:06:18Can I come down there?

1:06:18 > 1:06:21And the women go, "Ahhhhhhh!"

1:06:21 > 1:06:23APPLAUSE

1:06:23 > 1:06:25Then if you don't scream, Michael'll get real sensitive

1:06:25 > 1:06:27and cry on your ass.

1:06:27 > 1:06:30Ever hear that record She's Out Of My Life? Michael go...

1:06:30 > 1:06:32- IMITATING MICHAEL'S VOICE: - # So I've learned

1:06:32 > 1:06:35# That love's not possession

1:06:35 > 1:06:38# And I've learned

1:06:38 > 1:06:41# That love won't wait... #

1:06:41 > 1:06:43CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

1:06:43 > 1:06:45# Now I've learned

1:06:45 > 1:06:48# That love needs expression

1:06:48 > 1:06:54# But I've learned too late

1:06:54 > 1:07:00# And she's out of my life

1:07:04 > 1:07:10# She's out of my life

1:07:11 > 1:07:15# Damned indecision

1:07:15 > 1:07:19# And cursed pride

1:07:19 > 1:07:22# Kept my love for her

1:07:22 > 1:07:25# Locked deep inside

1:07:25 > 1:07:30# And it cuts like a knife

1:07:32 > 1:07:37# She's out of my...

1:07:37 > 1:07:41CROWD SCREAMS

1:07:59 > 1:08:05# Life

1:08:05 > 1:08:11# Mmmm, mmmm... #

1:08:11 > 1:08:15CROWD SCREAMS AND CHEERS

1:08:15 > 1:08:17HE SOBS

1:08:17 > 1:08:19CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

1:08:24 > 1:08:26HE SOBS

1:08:33 > 1:08:37- IMITATING MICHAEL'S VOICE: - Tito, get me some tissue.

1:08:37 > 1:08:39And I had an opportunity to listen to the stems

1:08:39 > 1:08:41where he's trying different takes,

1:08:41 > 1:08:42and he actually apologises

1:08:42 > 1:08:44for messing the song up.

1:08:46 > 1:08:48I'm sorry I messed it up.

1:08:48 > 1:08:50It was amazing, cos every time he sang it he cried,

1:08:50 > 1:08:53and I was trying to pick out what relationship he had, you know,

1:08:53 > 1:08:54that he could identify with that.

1:08:54 > 1:08:56He did it two or three times and said,

1:08:56 > 1:08:58"That's the way it's supposed to be," and just let it stay in there.

1:08:58 > 1:09:01A lesser producer would have milked it for all it's worth,

1:09:01 > 1:09:04milked all that drama for all it's worth.

1:09:04 > 1:09:06Like, trust me, if Puffy were producing

1:09:06 > 1:09:09- She's Out Of My Life... - LAUGHTER

1:09:09 > 1:09:10Puffy would have had the whole...

1:09:10 > 1:09:14He would've had Kleenex, like, sponsor the tour.

1:09:14 > 1:09:17You had people talking about, "Well, what was he crying about?"

1:09:17 > 1:09:20Who was he talking about? Is he talking about Brooke Shields?

1:09:20 > 1:09:21What girl is he talking about?

1:09:21 > 1:09:24You know, is he still talking about Ben, that rat?

1:09:24 > 1:09:26We'd seen him out publicly with Stephanie Mills,

1:09:26 > 1:09:28we'd seen him out with Tatum O'Neal,

1:09:28 > 1:09:30with Maureen McCormick from The Brady Bunch.

1:09:30 > 1:09:32Girls would get together, like,

1:09:32 > 1:09:34"I wonder who he's talking about," you know what I mean?

1:09:34 > 1:09:36And you would look at the Tiger Beat magazine

1:09:36 > 1:09:38to look for the gossip and everything.

1:09:38 > 1:09:41"Who made Michael cry?" That's how we took it.

1:09:41 > 1:09:44Not that I made Michael cry, cos I would never make Michael cry.

1:09:44 > 1:09:48She's Out Of My Life is,

1:09:48 > 1:09:50in my opinion,

1:09:50 > 1:09:53one of the two songs on Off The Wall

1:09:53 > 1:09:55that there's nothing on Thriller that tops it.

1:09:55 > 1:09:57Quiet storm was huge in the 1970s,

1:09:57 > 1:10:00which was a kind of radio format of black music

1:10:00 > 1:10:03that celebrated intimacy and sensuality and ambience,

1:10:03 > 1:10:04softness and quietude.

1:10:04 > 1:10:06Can't Help It was really the quiet storm demographic, right?

1:10:06 > 1:10:09It was really the kind of late-night boudoir romance thing.

1:10:09 > 1:10:13It's the first time that you really hear Michael sounding like...

1:10:13 > 1:10:15to me, sounding like an adult.

1:10:15 > 1:10:18And sounding outside of his R&B thing.

1:10:18 > 1:10:20It's jazzy.

1:10:20 > 1:10:22Susaye Greene had started working on it.

1:10:22 > 1:10:24She was in The Supremes, and had also sung with Stevie.

1:10:24 > 1:10:27It could have fit on Songs In The Key Of Life, really.

1:10:27 > 1:10:30That was supposed to be one of the songs on Songs In The Key Of Life.

1:10:30 > 1:10:32- Ooh!- See, I didn't know that!

1:10:32 > 1:10:33He had the...

1:10:33 > 1:10:36- SHE SINGS:- "I can't help it if I wanted to" - the hook.

1:10:36 > 1:10:38Yeah, I think she wrote a lot of the lyrics

1:10:38 > 1:10:39when we actually were in the studio,

1:10:39 > 1:10:41- messing around with it. - That's right.

1:10:45 > 1:10:48HE HUMS I Can't Help It

1:10:52 > 1:10:54# I can't, mmm, mmm... #

1:10:54 > 1:10:56HE HUMS

1:10:58 > 1:11:01I Can't Help It is my favourite. Stevie overdid it with that song.

1:11:01 > 1:11:04The nature of the chords is very nocturnal, you know?

1:11:04 > 1:11:06It doesn't sound like a sunny day to me.

1:11:06 > 1:11:11It sounds like a beautiful paradise evening,

1:11:11 > 1:11:14somewhere untainted by the humans, you know?

1:11:14 > 1:11:16Mystical world.

1:11:16 > 1:11:18You know, unicorns walking past and shit.

1:11:18 > 1:11:23My sister Renee had been hearing me play this cassette.

1:11:23 > 1:11:25She and Michael were friends.

1:11:25 > 1:11:28And she took it over to let Michael hear it,

1:11:28 > 1:11:29and I think it was great that he did it.

1:11:29 > 1:11:31I mean, really, he did an incredible job.

1:11:31 > 1:11:33The melodies are very seductive.

1:11:33 > 1:11:36They carry some of those signature Stevie lines,

1:11:36 > 1:11:38but also the signature Stevie chords.

1:11:38 > 1:11:40I really believed in the album.

1:11:40 > 1:11:42First of all, I believe in Michael Jackson.

1:11:42 > 1:11:44Stevie Wonder. Love Stevie Wonder.

1:11:44 > 1:11:47Being with Stevie Wonder. Being in his sessions,

1:11:47 > 1:11:50just sitting in and learning, just is incredible.

1:11:50 > 1:11:53You could put on I Can't Help It now and I'd still find something

1:11:53 > 1:11:55I haven't heard, or it will remind me of something,

1:11:55 > 1:11:58or the warmth of the bassline would just be, like...

1:11:58 > 1:11:59just kind of wash over you.

1:11:59 > 1:12:02It's just, like, you don't get sick of that music.

1:12:02 > 1:12:06I did a record back in 1977.

1:12:06 > 1:12:09We did It's The Falling In Love.

1:12:09 > 1:12:12- We co-wrote it together, and I know you played on it.- Yep.

1:12:12 > 1:12:15- I think my record served as a nice...- Demo.- As a demo.

1:12:15 > 1:12:20Patti Austin was a singer in the Quincy Jones arsenal.

1:12:20 > 1:12:22The very first time that I've heard Patti Austin's voice

1:12:22 > 1:12:25was It's The Falling In Love.

1:12:25 > 1:12:27The thing that really steeps a record in its era

1:12:27 > 1:12:30and that can make it sound dated is relying heavily

1:12:30 > 1:12:33on very specific technology of the time.

1:12:33 > 1:12:36And in the '80s, it was very much about '80s reverbs.

1:12:36 > 1:12:39In the late '70s, you had these big, massive disco claps.

1:12:39 > 1:12:42This album was perhaps, maybe,

1:12:42 > 1:12:45one false step away from being a very dated disco record.

1:12:45 > 1:12:48Didn't have any of those, like, tricks or gimmicks.

1:12:48 > 1:12:50It was pretty much... Even though it was immaculately arranged,

1:12:50 > 1:12:52and all the percussive parts,

1:12:52 > 1:12:54and all the way the parts worked together,

1:12:54 > 1:12:56there's nothing other than a bunch of dudes

1:12:56 > 1:12:59playing the shit out of a song in a room. That will never date.

1:12:59 > 1:13:01In a lot of ways Off The Wall

1:13:01 > 1:13:03is probably the culmination

1:13:03 > 1:13:06of classic disco.

1:13:06 > 1:13:09Came out in August 1979 -

1:13:09 > 1:13:13the Disco Sucks movement started just the month before in July,

1:13:13 > 1:13:17where shock DJ Steve Dahl in Chicago

1:13:17 > 1:13:19gathered a lot of people together

1:13:19 > 1:13:21at Comiskey Park in Chicago to burn disco records,

1:13:21 > 1:13:24which was a really, I think, implicitly racist

1:13:24 > 1:13:26and kind of homophobic movement.

1:13:26 > 1:13:29People wanted to shift the dial of popular music

1:13:29 > 1:13:32back to where they felt comfortable,

1:13:32 > 1:13:35which was not black, not gay, not Latino.

1:13:35 > 1:13:38Burn This Disco Out actually might have been an apt title,

1:13:38 > 1:13:41because it was coming literally at the end of the disco era.

1:13:41 > 1:13:44Just at the edge of being a disco record,

1:13:44 > 1:13:46but moving the genre forward.

1:13:46 > 1:13:50Far from the disco factory music

1:13:50 > 1:13:52that was just churning out factory beats.

1:13:52 > 1:13:54You can feel that kind of visceral energy.

1:13:54 > 1:13:57I mean, Off The Wall really is like lightning in a bottle.

1:13:57 > 1:14:00You really capture Michael Jackson at 20 years old

1:14:00 > 1:14:03with all of that excitement and energy and passion.

1:14:03 > 1:14:06That still really comes through on that record.

1:14:06 > 1:14:09This is the very last 8-track that my parents bought me

1:14:09 > 1:14:11before I stopped buying 8-tracks.

1:14:11 > 1:14:14I remember Off The Wall coming out

1:14:14 > 1:14:16the second week of August in 1979.

1:14:16 > 1:14:20Departure album is sort of an album that is in a person's canon

1:14:20 > 1:14:24in their career of which they make a 180 turn

1:14:24 > 1:14:25from what they were known from.

1:14:25 > 1:14:27He was no longer the teenybopper act,

1:14:27 > 1:14:32he was no longer the socially shy, awkward, maladjusted guy with acne.

1:14:32 > 1:14:34He was suddenly exuberant, confident.

1:14:34 > 1:14:36You look at the album cover of Off The Wall -

1:14:36 > 1:14:39it's like his prom picture. He's in a suit and tie

1:14:39 > 1:14:41in a kind of Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis mould.

1:14:41 > 1:14:43Now he's this freewheeling playboy

1:14:43 > 1:14:45that you can imagine out on the streets of New York.

1:14:45 > 1:14:46Again, life-changing.

1:14:46 > 1:14:48I think sophisticated,

1:14:48 > 1:14:50I think glamour,

1:14:50 > 1:14:52I think provocateur,

1:14:52 > 1:14:55I think everything that I wanted to be.

1:14:55 > 1:14:57Oh, yeah, I'm interested in promotion.

1:14:57 > 1:15:00I want to do things that have never been done before.

1:15:00 > 1:15:04If it wasn't for promotion, who would know about The Jackson 5?

1:15:04 > 1:15:06Who would know that we exist?

1:15:06 > 1:15:10I wouldn't be able to translate my music to different countries -

1:15:10 > 1:15:13Africa, Japan, New Zealand, Scotland,

1:15:13 > 1:15:15all the way to Australia.

1:15:15 > 1:15:18There is a universal core in music that I think transcends

1:15:18 > 1:15:19even what a crossover is about.

1:15:19 > 1:15:22Here we view a crossover as being, you know, black and white markets,

1:15:22 > 1:15:24which we've been faced with for years,

1:15:24 > 1:15:26but I think Michael's thing went even past that.

1:15:26 > 1:15:29When you get into Argentina and Israel and Spain

1:15:29 > 1:15:31and Scandinavia and Australia.

1:15:31 > 1:15:33I tell people fashion and music is a universal language.

1:15:33 > 1:15:35Wherever you go, you're going to hear

1:15:35 > 1:15:37the same songs in certain countries,

1:15:37 > 1:15:39and when people come together for those songs,

1:15:39 > 1:15:41they're all happy, they're all at peace.

1:15:41 > 1:15:42Cos a lot of people don't even speak English

1:15:42 > 1:15:45when you travel the globe, but they know the song,

1:15:45 > 1:15:47they know the music, and they'll learn the lyrics somehow.

1:15:47 > 1:15:49And that's just so wonderful,

1:15:49 > 1:15:52how you can bring people together just through your music.

1:15:52 > 1:15:55Michael Jackson can come out on stage and not say anything,

1:15:55 > 1:15:58and you'd know that he cared. 100,000 people in an Olympic stadium

1:15:58 > 1:15:59feel that he's right there for them.

1:15:59 > 1:16:01Everyone thinks, you know,

1:16:01 > 1:16:03like, they've had such a personal connection with him.

1:16:03 > 1:16:06But that's how great he was.

1:16:06 > 1:16:07He made you feel like that.

1:16:07 > 1:16:10Michael just inspired me to be a better person.

1:16:10 > 1:16:12I actually do believe that the blessing that the Lord

1:16:12 > 1:16:14gave this family, the musical blessing -

1:16:14 > 1:16:16the true mission behind all of that, I believe,

1:16:16 > 1:16:19is to unify the world together through your music as one.

1:16:19 > 1:16:21And it's about changing the world

1:16:21 > 1:16:24for a better place for our kids to grow up in.

1:16:24 > 1:16:26He had seen what had happened to artists like

1:16:26 > 1:16:29James Brown, Little Richard, Jackie Wilson -

1:16:29 > 1:16:31sometimes the industry wasn't fair to black artists.

1:16:31 > 1:16:33I remember fighting in a meeting, like,

1:16:33 > 1:16:36"How come Michael's not on the cover of People magazine?

1:16:36 > 1:16:39"How come he's not on the cover of Us?

1:16:39 > 1:16:42Pop radio stations didn't want to play Off The Wall in the beginning.

1:16:42 > 1:16:43Publicity lady would tell me,

1:16:43 > 1:16:46"Well, if a black person is put on the cover of these magazines,

1:16:46 > 1:16:48"they won't sell."

1:16:48 > 1:16:51Michael Jackson is a viable artist all by himself,

1:16:51 > 1:16:53and if they gave him the opportunity,

1:16:53 > 1:16:56he could win the radio stations over. And he did.

1:16:56 > 1:16:58He just made us feel like this is...

1:16:58 > 1:17:01Where we are is where we always were. And we weren't.

1:17:01 > 1:17:04There are kids that, like, were born when Obama was in office,

1:17:04 > 1:17:07so they don't understand a world where there was a white president.

1:17:07 > 1:17:09They don't even know what that feels like.

1:17:09 > 1:17:13I didn't know what it felt like to not have black pop artists,

1:17:13 > 1:17:16because he made us feel and believe that

1:17:16 > 1:17:18that was just the norm.

1:17:18 > 1:17:21He took black music to a place where it became human music.

1:17:21 > 1:17:23Music has no colour,

1:17:23 > 1:17:24and it shouldn't have colour,

1:17:24 > 1:17:26and I don't believe in that.

1:17:26 > 1:17:29What I do, I don't want it labelled black or white.

1:17:29 > 1:17:31I want it labelled, it's music.

1:17:31 > 1:17:33It was a simpler time,

1:17:33 > 1:17:36and radio had everything to do with it.

1:17:36 > 1:17:39Hey, let's go out with some up-tempo first,

1:17:39 > 1:17:43get ourselves positioned, bang, then we'll come in with that ballad.

1:17:43 > 1:17:46And you know, you'll go gold. You'll go platinum.

1:17:46 > 1:17:49Four singles in the top 10 and Billboard,

1:17:49 > 1:17:51not counting it being number one on R&B radio stations.

1:17:51 > 1:17:53It had never been done before.

1:17:53 > 1:17:56Some people looked at it as a disco album,

1:17:56 > 1:17:58which in retrospect is kind of foolish,

1:17:58 > 1:18:00because it's one of the most

1:18:00 > 1:18:03creatively influential albums in history.

1:18:03 > 1:18:07You look back at the awards for Off The Wall, they're R&B awards.

1:18:07 > 1:18:10The music industry, still very segregated at the time,

1:18:10 > 1:18:13and Michael was only nominated for R&B awards, and he won.

1:18:15 > 1:18:17# Fever

1:18:18 > 1:18:21# Temperature's risin' now

1:18:23 > 1:18:26# Power Oh, power

1:18:26 > 1:18:28# Is the force, the vow... #

1:18:29 > 1:18:30He thought it wasn't fair.

1:18:30 > 1:18:32He thought they'd snubbed him. It wasn't fair.

1:18:32 > 1:18:34He came and he told me, he said,

1:18:34 > 1:18:37"Mother, next year, they're going to have to give it to me."

1:18:37 > 1:18:40- INTERVIEWER:- And that was Thriller, huh?- That's right.

1:18:40 > 1:18:43Off The Wall really kind of set the blueprint for R&B,

1:18:43 > 1:18:46and I think most artists today acknowledge that.

1:18:46 > 1:18:50It's hard to come up with something fresh and new all the time.

1:18:50 > 1:18:52They go back and they say, "What was great?

1:18:52 > 1:18:53"What was done that was just great?"

1:18:53 > 1:18:56And they find themselves listening to Off The Wall.

1:18:56 > 1:18:58And then they take a little piece, and they say,

1:18:58 > 1:19:01"See how he did this? We've got to do that.

1:19:01 > 1:19:03"See how they made this sound? We've got to do that."

1:19:03 > 1:19:05I do that, so I know.

1:19:05 > 1:19:07That album, you hear it in music all the time.

1:19:07 > 1:19:09Pharrell to Justin Timberlake.

1:19:09 > 1:19:12My music would not be here if it weren't for his influence,

1:19:12 > 1:19:15Off The Wall and the next album after that as well.

1:19:15 > 1:19:16Like, I wouldn't have music.

1:19:16 > 1:19:18I don't think there's any way there's any other record

1:19:18 > 1:19:21I've played more music from, in the course of 20 years of DJing.

1:19:21 > 1:19:2610,000 to 15,000 times, I have released the vinyl on those songs.

1:19:26 > 1:19:29Off The Wall is the album I still play to this day.

1:19:29 > 1:19:30It's the album that I put on

1:19:30 > 1:19:32when I want to teach my daughter how to dance.

1:19:32 > 1:19:35It was soul music's epoch of magic realism.

1:19:35 > 1:19:38And when I say magic realism, I mean it was transformative.

1:19:38 > 1:19:39It takes you someplace else.

1:19:39 > 1:19:42It's so rich, musically.

1:19:42 > 1:19:44The arrangements, the singing, the background vocals.

1:19:44 > 1:19:46Michael taught me, melody's king.

1:19:46 > 1:19:49He was like, babies don't sing lyrics.

1:19:49 > 1:19:51They hum melody.

1:19:51 > 1:19:53A-B-C-D-E-F-G -

1:19:53 > 1:19:55they may not know all the letters in the alphabet,

1:19:55 > 1:19:57but they know that melody to that song.

1:19:57 > 1:19:59That was the way I saw music.

1:19:59 > 1:20:01I always saw music as, like, these little portals.

1:20:01 > 1:20:02It's like, you listen to a song -

1:20:02 > 1:20:05OK, I'm going to take you into this land, every time.

1:20:05 > 1:20:08In its first year alone, that album sold over six million copies.

1:20:08 > 1:20:11It's been overshadowed because of the Thriller album.

1:20:11 > 1:20:14There would be no Thriller without Off The Wall. Everybody knows that.

1:20:14 > 1:20:17When he went into the studio to make Thriller, he was intent,

1:20:17 > 1:20:20actually intent, on making the biggest album in history.

1:20:20 > 1:20:22And the amazing thing is that he actually did.

1:20:22 > 1:20:24Whatever your top game was, you're going on top of that one.

1:20:24 > 1:20:26That was his gift.

1:20:26 > 1:20:28You're dealing with a true artist.

1:20:28 > 1:20:31Devoted to the art,

1:20:31 > 1:20:32and everything else is secondary.

1:20:32 > 1:20:35I think it's very easy for people to get sidetracked,

1:20:35 > 1:20:37and talk about his complexion.

1:20:37 > 1:20:41No, focus on what this man was and how he was that.

1:20:41 > 1:20:43And how you can learn from that.

1:20:43 > 1:20:46You approach things the way he approached music,

1:20:46 > 1:20:49then you will be phenomenal.

1:20:49 > 1:20:52And the idea of being separated from your brothers, does that hurt?

1:20:54 > 1:20:55No, it doesn't.

1:20:55 > 1:20:57It, um...

1:20:57 > 1:21:02Cos there are other kinds of sounds and music that I love to do.

1:21:02 > 1:21:04It hurts when it's inside of me

1:21:04 > 1:21:07and it can't get out and it's hidden from the world.

1:21:07 > 1:21:08When I do those solo albums

1:21:08 > 1:21:12and I'm doing all kinds of different music, it's wonderful,

1:21:12 > 1:21:15I feel like I'm accomplishing what I'm supposed to do.

1:21:15 > 1:21:17And you don't feel guilty or worried about your brothers?

1:21:17 > 1:21:19No, cos they understand.

1:21:21 > 1:21:24Why hide something, why hide it? Share it.

1:21:24 > 1:21:26Off The Wall will live for ever.

1:21:26 > 1:21:31That was 1979, but this is just the beginning for that record.

1:21:31 > 1:21:33It's just the beginning.

1:21:33 > 1:21:39New people will explore and discover it today and tomorrow

1:21:39 > 1:21:42and it'll be something new to them today and tomorrow.

1:21:42 > 1:21:44It's just the beginning.

1:21:44 > 1:21:47He transcended sexual barriers,

1:21:47 > 1:21:50racial barriers, he brought everybody,

1:21:50 > 1:21:55brought in everybody, old people, young people, gay, straight.

1:21:55 > 1:21:58I mean, wherever you went, there was a smile.

1:21:58 > 1:22:02But the beauty of his artistry and what he has left us with

1:22:02 > 1:22:04so much joy and, like,

1:22:04 > 1:22:08so much thankfulness...

1:22:09 > 1:22:11..for all that he had given to me.

1:22:11 > 1:22:14You know, given to everybody, but...

1:22:14 > 1:22:16I'm just going to be selfish here for a moment,

1:22:16 > 1:22:21what he gave to me, and I'm glad that I found that joy again

1:22:21 > 1:22:26and I think that, in that way, his spirit is still with me.

1:22:26 > 1:22:28He surpassed what I...

1:22:30 > 1:22:31..ever expected of him.

1:22:31 > 1:22:34I expected a great deal of him, and he surpassed that.

1:22:34 > 1:22:37There's an element of God that's in people.

1:22:37 > 1:22:42Some people, God laid his hand on longer and held it there.

1:22:42 > 1:22:46Secretly and privately, really deep within, there's a destiny.

1:22:48 > 1:22:51And just for me to stay on that track and follow it.

1:22:51 > 1:22:54I really believe and feel I'm here for a reason

1:22:54 > 1:22:57and that's my job, you know, to perform for other people,

1:22:57 > 1:23:01and if they accept it, I'm rewarded.

1:23:01 > 1:23:05If they want to put me up on that pedestal, I feel even better.

1:23:05 > 1:23:07Do you ever want to stop?

1:23:07 > 1:23:09No, don't stop 'til you get enough!

1:23:09 > 1:23:12- And you haven't had enough? - No way! No way.

1:23:12 > 1:23:15SONG: Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough by Michael Jackson

1:23:15 > 1:23:17Don't stop till you get enough.

1:23:17 > 1:23:18Whoo!

1:23:33 > 1:23:37# Lovely

1:23:37 > 1:23:39# Is the feelin' now

1:23:41 > 1:23:43# Fever

1:23:43 > 1:23:48# Temperatures risin' now

1:23:48 > 1:23:51# Power

1:23:51 > 1:23:56# Is the force, the vow

1:23:56 > 1:23:59# That makes it happen

1:23:59 > 1:24:02# It asks no questions why... #

1:24:26 > 1:24:28CROWD CHEERS

1:24:46 > 1:24:48CROWD CHEERS

1:25:17 > 1:25:19CROWD CHEERS AND YELLS

1:25:35 > 1:25:38SCREAMING AND CHEERING

1:26:03 > 1:26:05Man, Brooklyn...

1:26:11 > 1:26:12..this feels so good.

1:26:12 > 1:26:14Brooklyn, we love you, Michael, yes?

1:26:14 > 1:26:17CROWD SCREAMS AND CHEERS