0:00:31 > 0:00:34# I'm on my way, I'm making it. #
0:00:34 > 0:00:37I knew it was good. I think we all knew it was good.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40But it was only when we started getting hits,
0:00:40 > 0:00:44which is a rare thing in my life, that you start thinking,
0:00:44 > 0:00:47"Oh, maybe we're going to sell something here".
0:00:47 > 0:00:50Peter Gabriel was the classic definition
0:00:50 > 0:00:53of a cult artist, before So.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56He was well known, he was well respected,
0:00:56 > 0:01:00but he was not in that league where we talk about the Beatles,
0:01:00 > 0:01:04the Stones, Bob Dylan, Fleetwood Mac.
0:01:04 > 0:01:07But So changed that in an enormous way.
0:01:07 > 0:01:09MUSIC: "Slegehammer" by Peter Gabriel
0:01:09 > 0:01:13# I want to be a sledgehammer!
0:01:14 > 0:01:18# This will be my testimony. #
0:01:18 > 0:01:22I guess it was May '85.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24Came over from New York. We got picked up at Heathrow
0:01:24 > 0:01:27by David Stallbaumer, who was Peter's assistant.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31Driving down the motorway, he had asked me, how long did Peter and Dan
0:01:31 > 0:01:34indicate I was going to be at Ashcombe House for?
0:01:34 > 0:01:37I said, "Anywhere from two weeks to six weeks".
0:01:37 > 0:01:40He kind of mused for a moment, and then he looked over to me
0:01:40 > 0:01:42and said, "You're going to be here until next March,"
0:01:42 > 0:01:45That was ten months later, and he was spot on.
0:01:45 > 0:01:50It took us a year to finish So, almost to the day,
0:01:50 > 0:01:53and I wasn't aware of this, but I was told after the fact
0:01:53 > 0:01:57- that that's the fastest record that Peter ever made. - HE LAUGHS
0:01:59 > 0:02:03# You better call the sledgehammer
0:02:03 > 0:02:09# This will be my testimony. #
0:02:09 > 0:02:15I knew that he was a person who thought about music
0:02:15 > 0:02:19in a different way. How can music enter the culture in a different way,
0:02:19 > 0:02:23other than just records, product, songs? You buy them, take them home.
0:02:23 > 0:02:25But how else could you experience music?
0:02:25 > 0:02:29Could all of those things meld at one moment in time
0:02:29 > 0:02:35to make a record that could, not necessarily fit into the masses,
0:02:35 > 0:02:38but actually find a way for the mass to come to him?
0:02:38 > 0:02:41I shook hands with Peter, I said, "Listen,
0:02:41 > 0:02:44"I think this could be really great for you, and let's not let up
0:02:44 > 0:02:47"until we're satisfied that it could touch a lot of hearts".
0:02:47 > 0:02:50MUSIC: "Don't Give Up" by Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush
0:02:50 > 0:02:52# Don't give up
0:02:52 > 0:02:54# You still have us
0:02:58 > 0:03:01# Don't give up
0:03:01 > 0:03:05# We don't need much of anything. #
0:03:05 > 0:03:08I think the songs were just like amazing and great songs,
0:03:08 > 0:03:12a great producer. Just, you know, magical.
0:03:12 > 0:03:14MUSIC: "That Voice Again" by Peter Gabriel
0:03:14 > 0:03:17# I want to be with you I want to be clear
0:03:17 > 0:03:20# Each time I try It's the voice I hear. #
0:03:22 > 0:03:26Imagine if somebody drops off a big lump of granite on your front lawn,
0:03:26 > 0:03:28and it's your job to make a sculpture,
0:03:28 > 0:03:32a nice skinny sculpture, out of it by spring.
0:03:32 > 0:03:33That was kind of our job.
0:03:33 > 0:03:37I think that one of the reasons I've been able to have a career
0:03:37 > 0:03:39over all this time,
0:03:39 > 0:03:44is that I've followed my heart, and my nose, you know?
0:03:44 > 0:03:47You sniff around, and you find something interesting,
0:03:47 > 0:03:50and you chase it.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52And that is what makes life interesting.
0:03:52 > 0:03:56MUSIC: "Red Rain" by Peter Gabriel
0:03:56 > 0:04:00I had had a dream that was a bit like the parting of the Red Sea,
0:04:00 > 0:04:04with these two walls, and these glass bottles
0:04:04 > 0:04:10that would fill up with blood,
0:04:10 > 0:04:12that would enable them to walk to the other side,
0:04:12 > 0:04:16screw onto the other wall, and empty the blood out.
0:04:18 > 0:04:22That was, I guess, a little version of life and death.
0:04:22 > 0:04:28There is a sense of danger, loss,
0:04:28 > 0:04:30this notion of "red rain".
0:04:30 > 0:04:33It's not specifically blood, but it's hard not to think of that
0:04:33 > 0:04:36as an image of blood, of people drowning, people helpless.
0:04:38 > 0:04:42# Red rain is coming down
0:04:42 > 0:04:45# Red rain
0:04:45 > 0:04:50# Red rain is pouring down
0:04:50 > 0:04:54# Pouring down all over me. #
0:04:57 > 0:05:01I'd always wanted it to crash open at the front.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04And for it to feel really driven.
0:05:04 > 0:05:09# Oh! Red rain coming down
0:05:09 > 0:05:13# Red rain. #
0:05:13 > 0:05:18I spent a lot of time, and Dan too, on trying to get the sequence right.
0:05:18 > 0:05:22And what we used to do was put the beginnings and endings
0:05:22 > 0:05:24of all the songs on little cassettes,
0:05:24 > 0:05:27so you can try all the different permutations.
0:05:27 > 0:05:33# Red rain is coming down all over me. #
0:05:33 > 0:05:37I think with Red Rain, fairly early on,
0:05:37 > 0:05:38that was going to be an opener.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41We put a lot of work into those drums.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45This was before digital technology.
0:05:47 > 0:05:52Jerry Marotta must have played the drums like,
0:05:52 > 0:05:54I think, about eight takes.
0:05:54 > 0:05:58The idea was always to try to do something different,
0:05:58 > 0:06:03be a little unconventional, or a lot unconventional.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05I love that about Peter.
0:06:05 > 0:06:07He's a really a master of low end.
0:06:07 > 0:06:11He can really shape the bottom of a song the way no one else can.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15And then it was my job, after Jerry left, to go through everything,
0:06:15 > 0:06:20and make sure that I had included Jerry's best playing, bar at a time.
0:06:20 > 0:06:22It's getting in there and trying things,
0:06:22 > 0:06:26and trying things in a little different way. Being unusual.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28But I think it was worth it.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31You hear all the idiosyncratic details of Jerry's performance.
0:06:33 > 0:06:34It's got a lot of power.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37Got a very deep, philosophical thing.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40And, performance-wise,
0:06:40 > 0:06:44it wasn't like the pop songs.
0:06:44 > 0:06:46It was much darker.
0:06:46 > 0:06:52# I am standing up at the water's edge, in my dream.
0:06:55 > 0:07:01# I cannot make a single sound as you scream. #
0:07:01 > 0:07:02As the ex-drummer that I am,
0:07:02 > 0:07:05I have to get the drums right, before anything else can happen.
0:07:05 > 0:07:09Remember, one of his big influences as a kid was Otis Redding,
0:07:09 > 0:07:13and he was a drummer, before he was a singer.
0:07:13 > 0:07:18The past records, as Jerry Marotta will remind us all of,
0:07:18 > 0:07:20were not allowed to have any cymbals.
0:07:20 > 0:07:22No cymbals, and no hi-hat.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Because Peter didn't want a whole bunch of "pshhhh"
0:07:25 > 0:07:30splashing around, noisy things, to take up any room in the mix.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33One of the worst things you can ever do to an artist
0:07:33 > 0:07:35is give them complete freedom.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37Cos they just sit there, thinking,
0:07:37 > 0:07:41"What the hell am I going to do?"
0:07:41 > 0:07:44But I think creative people are devious,
0:07:44 > 0:07:49and if you tell them what they can't do, they'll find a way round it.
0:07:49 > 0:07:55So I thought, "OK, I know I'm devious, too,
0:07:55 > 0:08:01"so I'll create my own set of rules, of things that I can or can't do.
0:08:01 > 0:08:07"And that'll force me to think of alternatives". So, no cymbals.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10I love hi-hat, and I said to Peter,
0:08:10 > 0:08:13"Let's make this record a nice hi-hat record, why not?"
0:08:13 > 0:08:17He's fascinating, Dan, cos he's a mixture of,
0:08:17 > 0:08:22I think, quite a rough and tough dad on the one hand,
0:08:22 > 0:08:27and a very soft and tender mum.
0:08:27 > 0:08:29He can be both things.
0:08:29 > 0:08:34And he decided to follow my instinct,
0:08:34 > 0:08:37and so we allowed cymbals and hi-hats into the project.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40That was quite a change for him.
0:08:40 > 0:08:45One of the things that I asked Stewart Copeland to do,
0:08:45 > 0:08:51cos he's a virtuoso hi-hat player, was focus in on the hi-hat.
0:08:51 > 0:08:52DRUM MACHINE PLAYS
0:08:52 > 0:08:56So this is where we started, with the hi-hat on the drum program.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59It does a job, it motors along, but doesn't have any personality.
0:08:59 > 0:09:03So, here's Stewart.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05HI-HATS PLAY
0:09:11 > 0:09:13Of what we put on the record, I'd say Red Rain
0:09:13 > 0:09:16probably took the most out of me.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21It was a very flat...
0:09:21 > 0:09:25And it was my job to make it so that it evolved,
0:09:25 > 0:09:27sonically and emotionally.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39# Red rain is coming down
0:09:39 > 0:09:41# Red rain
0:09:44 > 0:09:47# Red rain is falling down
0:09:47 > 0:09:51# Falling down all over me. #
0:09:51 > 0:09:55I wanted his emotions to come to the forefront.
0:09:55 > 0:09:59To wear no mask and no veil, and to have no mirrored
0:09:59 > 0:10:04contact lenses, and no trickery.
0:10:04 > 0:10:08And just take everything off, and let the songs be heard.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11And I think that was a good call.
0:10:11 > 0:10:16I think it was sort of a nice segue into the next chapter, for Peter.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19So, consequently, I think these songs are more revealing,
0:10:19 > 0:10:22they're more naked, they're taking risks
0:10:22 > 0:10:27and listeners feel that, when a man takes a risk.
0:10:33 > 0:10:36I've always been slow, so I worked out early on,
0:10:36 > 0:10:38that it was going to be a lot cheaper
0:10:38 > 0:10:40if tried to buy the equipment,
0:10:40 > 0:10:44and set up a little studio, rather than rent a studio.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47I was looking, basically, for a place that I could afford,
0:10:47 > 0:10:49so we rented this old farmhouse.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52And we started putting some equipment in there.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55But it was away from everything.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58The cows would come and lick the windows occasionally,
0:10:58 > 0:11:00and I loved it.
0:11:04 > 0:11:08I first got an invitation to work with Peter Gabriel
0:11:08 > 0:11:10when I was living in Hamilton, in Ontario, in Canada.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13That's near Toronto.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15And there was an invitation to come in and help him
0:11:15 > 0:11:19with a soundtrack for a film called Birdy.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22I jumped on the plane the next day, and we carried on with that work,
0:11:22 > 0:11:25and Peter gave me access to his entire library.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28He says, "Whatever you find in here, do what you like with it.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31"What I expect in the end is some nice surprises".
0:11:31 > 0:11:34I knew I didn't have time to generate a whole new score,
0:11:34 > 0:11:38so I wanted to use part of the score,
0:11:38 > 0:11:43using existing material, and remixes,
0:11:43 > 0:11:47and extrapolate mood from some of the ready-made material.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51And I did provide him a lot of surprises, sonic surprises,
0:11:51 > 0:11:56and he invited me to stay on to work on his new singing record,
0:11:56 > 0:11:59which was to become So.
0:11:59 > 0:12:03You saw the two together. They still had hair.
0:12:03 > 0:12:04HE LAUGHS
0:12:04 > 0:12:08And the two together, they were one.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12When I first met Daniel, I remember now, at the studio, I looked at him,
0:12:12 > 0:12:14and he was the perfect complement to Peter.
0:12:14 > 0:12:16He understood Peter.
0:12:19 > 0:12:21I walked down the lane with my bag.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24Peter came out of Ashcombe House.
0:12:24 > 0:12:26Something jumped on me.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28I felt that I had known him before.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32I just felt something genetically connected with him,
0:12:32 > 0:12:34if not by birth.
0:12:34 > 0:12:38And, I knew right at that moment, that I should work with him.
0:12:40 > 0:12:44Ashcombe was made of two main buildings, the house,
0:12:44 > 0:12:48the beautiful garden, and then the cow barn.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52I think it had been used as a functioning cow barn.
0:12:52 > 0:12:53I don't know how long back.
0:12:53 > 0:12:57Cows were still around in the fields.
0:12:57 > 0:12:59It felt and behaved like a proper studio,
0:12:59 > 0:13:02but it was all done very inexpensively.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05Peter walked in and said, "Great, let's get started.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08"We're going to start making a record."
0:13:08 > 0:13:12And that was the initial birth process for So.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15We were both surrounded by a brand new studio,
0:13:15 > 0:13:18with a bunch of equipment neither of us knew really how to operate.
0:13:21 > 0:13:25They turned the barn into a studio. It was perfect for Peter.
0:13:25 > 0:13:29It was great, cos it was kinda like that thing where
0:13:29 > 0:13:32we're in, at home, we're in our own environment, you know?
0:13:32 > 0:13:35So, that was it. He'd go in the back to work on lyrics,
0:13:35 > 0:13:38and pop the tracks, and sing out loud,
0:13:38 > 0:13:41while I worked in the smaller room in the front, tidying things up,
0:13:41 > 0:13:46and getting the room ready for the next level of work.
0:13:48 > 0:13:50We had a good work ethic,
0:13:50 > 0:13:52and we treated it like a construction site.
0:13:52 > 0:13:56In fact, we even had the construction site hard hats.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01We just had a policy where we put on the hard hat before starting work.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05I listened to his solo records, and I liked them.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09I thought that he had been very adventurous and brave
0:14:09 > 0:14:13with his sonics, and with his songs.
0:14:13 > 0:14:18All four records before that were titled Peter Gabriel.
0:14:18 > 0:14:22I used to remember all the different albums, not from titles,
0:14:22 > 0:14:26but from the pictures, from the artwork.
0:14:26 > 0:14:30Then you had a big vinyl artwork.
0:14:30 > 0:14:34There was a whole ritual to getting an album. Opening it, smelling it.
0:14:34 > 0:14:36And I also thought that,
0:14:36 > 0:14:38when you had good artwork, why did you have to have
0:14:38 > 0:14:40all this text all over the top of it,
0:14:40 > 0:14:43making it look like a piece of advertising?
0:14:43 > 0:14:45You go from the first record,
0:14:45 > 0:14:49with Here Comes the Flood, Solsbury Hill.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53The second album, which is more eccentric and darker,
0:14:53 > 0:14:55produced by Robert Fripp.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57Games Without Frontiers.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05# Whistling tunes, We hide in the dunes by the seaside
0:15:11 > 0:15:16# Whistling tunes, We're kissing baboons in the jungle
0:15:16 > 0:15:19# It's a knockout
0:15:19 > 0:15:22# If looks could kill, they probably will
0:15:22 > 0:15:24# In games without frontiers
0:15:24 > 0:15:26# War without tears. #
0:15:26 > 0:15:29That's when you have Biko.
0:15:29 > 0:15:34You get this sense that he's working his way forward.
0:15:34 > 0:15:39By calling each record "Peter Gabriel", the point was,
0:15:39 > 0:15:43"These are not separate, discrete statements.
0:15:43 > 0:15:48"This is part of my continuing body of work".
0:15:48 > 0:15:52It was sort of culty, and occasional flashes.
0:15:52 > 0:15:57so Games Without Frontiers, Shock The Monkey, Solsbury Hill,
0:15:57 > 0:16:02had sort of broken through to a wider audience.
0:16:02 > 0:16:05# Watched by empty silhouette
0:16:05 > 0:16:09# Who show their face but not at me
0:16:09 > 0:16:12# No-one taught them etiquette
0:16:13 > 0:16:16# I will show another me
0:16:16 > 0:16:20# Today I don't need a replacement
0:16:20 > 0:16:23# I'll show them what the smile on my face meant
0:16:23 > 0:16:26# My heart going boom-boom-boom
0:16:26 > 0:16:28# "Son," he said
0:16:28 > 0:16:31# "Grab your things, I've come to take you home". #
0:16:31 > 0:16:34And then, I sort of retreat
0:16:34 > 0:16:37back into the bushes
0:16:37 > 0:16:40with my normal crowd.
0:16:40 > 0:16:45So, there's occasional moments in the daylight.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47Those songs had been said already,
0:16:47 > 0:16:50and we're entering a new body of work.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53# You could have a steam train
0:16:55 > 0:16:59# If you just lay down your tracks. #
0:16:59 > 0:17:01Sledgehammer, actually,
0:17:01 > 0:17:06that crashed the door down for such a wide audience,
0:17:06 > 0:17:09that everything else that was on the record that was important,
0:17:09 > 0:17:13that was convincing, that was committed,
0:17:13 > 0:17:15that all came through as well.
0:17:16 > 0:17:18# A sledgehammer
0:17:20 > 0:17:23# This can be testimony
0:17:24 > 0:17:29# Hey! The sledgehammer. #
0:17:29 > 0:17:32I remember that Sledgehammer, we did very last.
0:17:32 > 0:17:34In fact, we were packing up.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37Peter, in typical Peter fashion, said,
0:17:37 > 0:17:39"I have this idea, for the next album, of a piece.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42"Would you mind just doing a run through of it?"
0:17:42 > 0:17:46One of the many things I love about Peter is,
0:17:46 > 0:17:48in his mind, he's only a couple of months away
0:17:48 > 0:17:50from doing his next album,
0:17:50 > 0:17:53even when he's finishing an album, and the rest of us know
0:17:53 > 0:17:56we're going to have to wait years, maybe even for this one to come out.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59So we just reassembled the stuff,
0:17:59 > 0:18:03and did a quick version or two of Sledgehammer,
0:18:03 > 0:18:07and then we went home thinking, "No-one will ever hear that track".
0:18:07 > 0:18:08Everyone thinks, "Oh, Sledgehammer,
0:18:08 > 0:18:11"you must have been trying to write a hit".
0:18:11 > 0:18:14It wasn't like that.
0:18:14 > 0:18:18I loved R&B, soul music.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23So, in a way, this was a little bit of homage to that.
0:18:23 > 0:18:28I had made these jazz records, jazz fusion,
0:18:28 > 0:18:33which was totally not Peter's bag, but I had also recorded a song
0:18:33 > 0:18:37as a tribute to the island where I was born.
0:18:37 > 0:18:41In that piece of music, there was a drummer,
0:18:41 > 0:18:43which was Manu Katche.
0:18:43 > 0:18:48I got a phone call in my room so of course I answered the phone,
0:18:48 > 0:18:51and someone on the phone says, "Hello, is this Manu here?
0:18:51 > 0:18:54"It's Peter Gabriel". I said, "Yeah, OK."
0:18:54 > 0:18:57I thought it was my friend, doing a joke.
0:18:57 > 0:19:00Peter was calling him. He was not returning Peter's calls.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03Five minutes later, the phone rings again.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05"Hello?" "Manu, this is Peter Gabriel".
0:19:05 > 0:19:06I said, "Camille, OK, stop it!"
0:19:06 > 0:19:09Peter called me in New York, and said, "I don't know what's
0:19:09 > 0:19:12going on with this drummer. He's not returning the calls".
0:19:12 > 0:19:15So, I remember, I called him with Peter on the line,
0:19:15 > 0:19:18and I said to Manu, "Manu, what's going on?"
0:19:18 > 0:19:23And he said, "I would love to have you on my next project".
0:19:23 > 0:19:26So I said to George, "Are you sure this guy can shuffle?
0:19:26 > 0:19:29"We have to have a man who understands the shuffle.
0:19:29 > 0:19:33"It's not enough to just go 'boo-boo-de-boo-boo-de' anymore.
0:19:33 > 0:19:36"We want the 'do-do-do-ch-do-do-do-do',
0:19:36 > 0:19:38"some kind of motion to it.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40"Will Manu be able to do that?"
0:19:40 > 0:19:44And he said, "Well, he's the best in Paris. Trust me, I think you'll love him".
0:19:44 > 0:19:49Somebody like Manu coming to the table was so unlike anything
0:19:49 > 0:19:53that had yet happened in the entire recording process.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58Because, he's a straight session guy.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01There's a big garden in front me,
0:20:01 > 0:20:04and we just go out for a little bit of time, then having your tea
0:20:04 > 0:20:08in the kitchen, then coming back. Has nothing to do like you being
0:20:08 > 0:20:11in a professional studio, where you have to sign in when you get in,
0:20:11 > 0:20:13and sign out when you leave the place.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15And then there are two or three studios
0:20:15 > 0:20:17when people are working on different projects.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20So the feeling was very, very different,
0:20:20 > 0:20:24plus it's in the countryside, in the middle of the countryside,
0:20:24 > 0:20:26which means there's nothing around of, like, in a city.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32Sat down, listened to the track once, maybe twice,
0:20:32 > 0:20:35with Peter in the control room. Not even in the room with him.
0:20:35 > 0:20:37Just said, "OK, play what you think, play what you think".
0:20:37 > 0:20:39Manu did one take.
0:20:39 > 0:20:41And I go back into the studio. We listened to it,
0:20:41 > 0:20:45and I see Peter moving, and really having this great
0:20:45 > 0:20:48and nice smile on his face.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51And I said, "You like it?" He said, "Yeah".
0:20:51 > 0:20:53And Peter said, "Great, let's do it again".
0:20:53 > 0:20:55And Manu's response was,
0:20:55 > 0:20:58"Why? I've already done it."
0:20:58 > 0:21:01Peter always likes another take, or a third take or a tenth take,
0:21:01 > 0:21:02just to cover himself.
0:21:02 > 0:21:07There's an American producer, I think it's Jerry Wexler.
0:21:07 > 0:21:10No, it wasn't, Arif Mardin.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13And one of his quotes was,
0:21:13 > 0:21:16"Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous. Now, do it again."
0:21:16 > 0:21:19He was used to just doing things hundreds and hundreds,
0:21:19 > 0:21:20and hundreds of times.
0:21:20 > 0:21:25And Manu's point was, "I've all ready interpreted this as best I can."
0:21:25 > 0:21:26And as soon as I heard that track,
0:21:26 > 0:21:30I had the idea of what I wanted to play, instantly.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32Remember, the groove on the bass was, like, phenomenal.
0:21:32 > 0:21:36Manu was following where the music seemed to be taking us.
0:21:36 > 0:21:39And Manu was very good at just following that direction,
0:21:39 > 0:21:43but doing it with his own style, so it always sounds like him.
0:21:43 > 0:21:44And that's what I try to do on bass.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47# Come, feel the power
0:21:47 > 0:21:50# Build, build, help the power
0:21:50 > 0:21:53# Come on, come on, help me
0:21:53 > 0:21:55# Come on, come on, help me, do
0:21:55 > 0:21:57# Give it, give it, give it
0:21:57 > 0:21:59# All day and night. #
0:21:59 > 0:22:01Sledgehammer is part of that
0:22:01 > 0:22:05classical rhythm and blues soul that people understand instantly,
0:22:05 > 0:22:09so, once again,
0:22:09 > 0:22:11I would love to think
0:22:11 > 0:22:14it's because when we recorded it,
0:22:14 > 0:22:16we recorded it with heart and soul.
0:22:16 > 0:22:17DRUMS PLAY
0:22:17 > 0:22:19The drums have that thing I was talking about,
0:22:19 > 0:22:22a lovely kind of swing to them.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24And then, if we put in Tony's bass...
0:22:24 > 0:22:27BASS PLAYS
0:22:29 > 0:22:31And I chose fretless bass.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33PLAYS BASS
0:22:33 > 0:22:36I put an octave on it, and a little unusual to use a pick.
0:22:36 > 0:22:40And I thought we came up with a good sound.
0:22:40 > 0:22:42PLAYS BASSLINE
0:22:57 > 0:23:01When I heard the track, it was about 50 or 60% completed,
0:23:01 > 0:23:03but there were no lyrics on it whatsoever,
0:23:03 > 0:23:05so the bed track was then drums, bass, guitars.
0:23:05 > 0:23:10It had some keyboards on it, but it didn't have all the keyboards on it.
0:23:10 > 0:23:12No vocals, whatsoever.
0:23:12 > 0:23:15No background vocals, no lead vocal.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19Dan kept mentioning, "It would be great to have horns on this,"
0:23:19 > 0:23:20cos it had a soul feel.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23So, we went to the Power Station, in New York,
0:23:23 > 0:23:26and had a couple of fellas come up from Memphis.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30I was going up to play with some strange people,
0:23:30 > 0:23:33and I didn't know how it worked. But I'm good with folks.
0:23:33 > 0:23:37I'm good with strangers, so I figured I could make it work, and I did.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40Wayne Jackson,
0:23:40 > 0:23:42with the Memphis Horns,
0:23:42 > 0:23:48was playing at the gig in Brixton when I saw Otis, in 1967.
0:23:48 > 0:23:53So, it was a great thing for me to be able to work with them,
0:23:53 > 0:23:54and work with him,
0:23:54 > 0:23:59and hear a lot of the stories first-hand about Otis.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01The song had a sense of humour to it,
0:24:01 > 0:24:04and they felt the horns would highlight that humour.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06HORNS PLAY
0:24:15 > 0:24:17There they are.
0:24:17 > 0:24:20I liked the song, and I love the track. It felt good.
0:24:21 > 0:24:25That's all. R&B feels good. And this felt good, too.
0:24:25 > 0:24:30And I could see why he wanted something original sounding,
0:24:30 > 0:24:34to lean his music more towards soul than, than pop.
0:24:36 > 0:24:37And I gave him that.
0:24:37 > 0:24:40When they came back, after being here for a week,
0:24:40 > 0:24:43and I heard them for the first time, it was just a big smile on my face,
0:24:43 > 0:24:45cos it helped pull the whole track together.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47We were all very happy.
0:24:47 > 0:24:49Daniel and Peter just jumped up
0:24:49 > 0:24:52and ran around the studio, just jumping up.
0:24:52 > 0:24:56Just like fairies. "Yay!"
0:24:57 > 0:25:01They were so happy with the way it was coming off.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04The thing about Sledgehammer is that it had that video,
0:25:04 > 0:25:08and the video had such a charm, such a sense of humour,
0:25:08 > 0:25:12which was something that people didn't realise about him.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14# You could have a steam train
0:25:17 > 0:25:21# If you just lay down your tracks
0:25:22 > 0:25:26# You could have an aeroplane flying
0:25:27 > 0:25:31# If you bring your blue sky back
0:25:31 > 0:25:34# All you do is call me. #
0:25:34 > 0:25:39I'd taken a risk, and spent quite a lot of money on this video,
0:25:39 > 0:25:41which was really unusual at the time.
0:25:41 > 0:25:45People hadn't really done something like that.
0:25:47 > 0:25:51# Going up and down All around the bends. #
0:25:51 > 0:25:55I was introduced to this wonderful director, Stephen R Johnson,
0:25:55 > 0:25:58and he introduced me to the Quay Brothers,
0:25:58 > 0:26:00and I introduced him to Aardman Animation,
0:26:00 > 0:26:03all of whom worked together.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06In those days, you more or less had to do it all in camera.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08In other words, what you shot was what you got.
0:26:08 > 0:26:10You couldn't layer stuff in.
0:26:10 > 0:26:12So, basically, you were shooting everything,
0:26:12 > 0:26:14frame by frame, in camera.
0:26:14 > 0:26:16So, Peter Gabriel sitting in a chair.
0:26:16 > 0:26:18We made a rig, we have bumper cars,
0:26:18 > 0:26:23and they are simply model cars, which are animated frame by frame,
0:26:23 > 0:26:26and he would be directed to enunciate the part of the word
0:26:26 > 0:26:27he's meant to be singing.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30You would direct his eyes to look right or look left,
0:26:30 > 0:26:32on a frame by frame basis.
0:26:32 > 0:26:36You were using Peter Gabriel effectively as an animated model.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39# The amusement never ends. #
0:26:39 > 0:26:44Two weeks of sort of creative work, and a very slow and painful
0:26:44 > 0:26:48process, filming in old-style animation so, as clouds moved
0:26:48 > 0:26:52across my face they had, actually had to be painted, frame by frame.
0:26:53 > 0:26:58And then Nick Park was asked to animate these chickens.
0:26:58 > 0:27:01They'd already been out of the fridge for quite a while,
0:27:01 > 0:27:02while they had wire put in them.
0:27:02 > 0:27:06Then they were underneath the studio lights,
0:27:06 > 0:27:09and Nick is to be seen wearing protective clothing,
0:27:09 > 0:27:12rubber gloves and a mask, and stuff like that,
0:27:12 > 0:27:15because he was rightly anxious about salmonella.
0:27:26 > 0:27:31After the Sledgehammer video was popular in America, I noticed,
0:27:31 > 0:27:35and had to laugh, that there were more women in the audience.
0:27:35 > 0:27:37Exactly, there were women in the audience,
0:27:37 > 0:27:39which, for the musicians, was a wonderful thing.
0:27:39 > 0:27:41HE LAUGHS
0:27:41 > 0:27:45So that was a change that changed for good,
0:27:45 > 0:27:49and we all kind of smiled about it on stage, and took it for what it was.
0:27:49 > 0:27:52That was one change, after So.
0:27:52 > 0:27:56Song about a man and a woman
0:27:56 > 0:27:59faced with a problem of losing a job.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01It's called Don't Give Up.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03APPLAUSE
0:28:03 > 0:28:06BASS PLAYS
0:28:14 > 0:28:17Don't Give Up started out as a rhythm box pattern
0:28:17 > 0:28:22that Peter had been fiddling around with on his Linn drum.
0:28:22 > 0:28:26Then little tuned tom-toms, and I always liked something about it.
0:28:28 > 0:28:32And so this entire song was built around that little tom-tom pattern.
0:28:34 > 0:28:39And I'd pitched the um, toms quite deliberately
0:28:39 > 0:28:45and then I asked Tony if he could build on that.
0:28:45 > 0:28:49And when Tony Levin came in he mimicked the phrasing
0:28:49 > 0:28:51of the tom-tom pattern the best he could
0:28:51 > 0:28:55and he invented this beautiful part that floats on top.
0:28:55 > 0:28:59And I thought that'd be a good bass part if I put notes to it.
0:28:59 > 0:29:00So I started.
0:29:04 > 0:29:06Then I added harmony.
0:29:10 > 0:29:12Little beat box part here.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15SLOW BEATS AND GUITAR
0:29:23 > 0:29:25It's quite Jamaican, isn't it?
0:29:25 > 0:29:29Then we can put some keys in for the chords.
0:29:31 > 0:29:35# In this proud land we grew up strong
0:29:35 > 0:29:38# We were wanted all along. #
0:29:38 > 0:29:44We talked about Don't Give Up being a duet, and he was hoping
0:29:44 > 0:29:50to find um...somebody who could sing a country song.
0:29:50 > 0:29:53I'd seen these extraordinary black and white pictures
0:29:53 > 0:29:57of the American depression by Dorothea Lange
0:29:57 > 0:30:00and they were haunting, so that was sort of the trigger point,
0:30:00 > 0:30:04but then there was quite a lot of unemployment going on
0:30:04 > 0:30:07and so I thought I would try and roll that in.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10And in a way, the Don't Give Up message,
0:30:10 > 0:30:15felt like a sort of an emotional focal point for the lyric.
0:30:15 > 0:30:21And originally, because the American Depression sort of starting point,
0:30:21 > 0:30:24I'd actually thought of Dolly Parton, who I'm a big fan of.
0:30:24 > 0:30:28And he wanted to try and get Dolly Parton which I thought was inspired.
0:30:28 > 0:30:30And she wasn't interested.
0:30:30 > 0:30:34And I believe that when they called Dolly's manager,
0:30:34 > 0:30:38I don't think that any of them knew who Peter Gabriel was.
0:30:38 > 0:30:42It's interesting that he did write it with Dolly Parton in mind
0:30:42 > 0:30:46because I can't imagine that voice in that setting.
0:30:46 > 0:30:50From the point at which he mentioned Dolly Parton he also mentioned Kate.
0:30:50 > 0:30:53When Kate Bush walked in, it was a completely different energy.
0:30:53 > 0:30:57Again, what was a piece in development
0:30:57 > 0:31:03turned into, you know, such a complete song almost instantaneously.
0:31:03 > 0:31:06So something that we'd just been working on and working on
0:31:06 > 0:31:08and working on for months
0:31:08 > 0:31:15and not really getting to any kind of finality, instantly changed.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18Course we were all happy to be in her presence, you know,
0:31:18 > 0:31:21she was royalty pretty much.
0:31:21 > 0:31:24She was literally standing right beside me here.
0:31:24 > 0:31:26We were all working on headphones.
0:31:26 > 0:31:29We had the speakers turned down so we were working on headphones
0:31:29 > 0:31:32and you could just hear the emotion just dripping out of her performance
0:31:32 > 0:31:35and literally every hair on my body was just standing up.
0:31:35 > 0:31:41# Don't give up cos you have friends
0:31:44 > 0:31:51# Don't give up you're not beaten yet. #
0:31:51 > 0:31:56It needs to be really underplayed
0:31:56 > 0:31:59and um...intimate.
0:31:59 > 0:32:05Don't Give Up is actually a really nice way to come out of Red Rain
0:32:05 > 0:32:10and Sledgehammer into something very soothing, and very pointed
0:32:10 > 0:32:14and it's interesting that he gives that key line to Kate Bush.
0:32:14 > 0:32:16He doesn't sing it himself.
0:32:16 > 0:32:21He gives it to this beautiful female voice that has a lover's quality,
0:32:21 > 0:32:23maternal quality.
0:32:23 > 0:32:28I think, and it's my impression again, that it's a homage
0:32:28 > 0:32:31to these songs, these duets that used to happen
0:32:31 > 0:32:34in the world of rhythm and blues,
0:32:34 > 0:32:37when Otis Redding sang with Aretha Franklin.
0:32:37 > 0:32:40He was paying a tribute, you know, with respect
0:32:40 > 0:32:42to the music that he loved.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46# Cos I believe there's a place
0:32:46 > 0:32:50# There's a place where we belong. #
0:32:50 > 0:32:54She was essentially brought in as an actor really,
0:32:54 > 0:33:00to play a role and to represent that part of the song...
0:33:00 > 0:33:02and um...
0:33:02 > 0:33:05I can't imagine it being any better than it is.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08She was like an angel and did it fantastically.
0:33:08 > 0:33:12# When times get rough
0:33:12 > 0:33:17# You can fall back on us
0:33:17 > 0:33:20# Don't give up
0:33:20 > 0:33:25# Please don't give up. #
0:33:25 > 0:33:31So this is the wonderful Richard Tee on piano
0:33:31 > 0:33:36which is much more of a soul gospel piano
0:33:36 > 0:33:39which he does really well.
0:33:39 > 0:33:41And then Peter...
0:33:41 > 0:33:43Where is Peter?
0:33:43 > 0:33:49# Out of here I can't take anymore
0:33:49 > 0:33:52# Going to stand on that bridge. #
0:33:52 > 0:33:54Falsetto coming up.
0:33:54 > 0:33:57# Keep my eyes down below. #
0:33:57 > 0:33:59Beautiful, eh?
0:33:59 > 0:34:02# Whatever may come
0:34:02 > 0:34:06# And whatever may go
0:34:06 > 0:34:11# That river's flowing
0:34:11 > 0:34:14# That river's flowing. #
0:34:15 > 0:34:18There's a big difference on the record in the sound
0:34:18 > 0:34:22in the second half of the piece and I looked around the studio
0:34:22 > 0:34:25for some dampening material, some foam rubber or something
0:34:25 > 0:34:29and my eyes fell on my bass case full of diapers.
0:34:29 > 0:34:34Again, my two-month-old daughter was with me
0:34:34 > 0:34:38and somehow I thought there might not be diapers in England,
0:34:38 > 0:34:40I don't know what I was thinking,
0:34:40 > 0:34:43but I had packed everything full of diapers, every free space.
0:34:43 > 0:34:47So I put a diaper under the bass strings which dampened
0:34:47 > 0:34:48the heck out of them
0:34:48 > 0:34:53and later, Peter and Dan called that the Super Wonder Nappy Bass sound.
0:34:53 > 0:34:58# Moved on to another town
0:34:58 > 0:35:01# Tried hard to settle down
0:35:01 > 0:35:04# For every job
0:35:04 > 0:35:07# So many men
0:35:07 > 0:35:11# So many men no-one needs. #
0:35:11 > 0:35:17I am obsessive about getting the right um...feel,
0:35:17 > 0:35:19the right performance.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22And Tony's absolutely brilliant with, you know,
0:35:22 > 0:35:25one of the most amazing musicians I've ever worked with.
0:35:25 > 0:35:29But occasionally, he'll do something that doesn't feel...
0:35:29 > 0:35:33doesn't fit the picture and I've got something else in my head.
0:35:33 > 0:35:39I was working at a studio called the Wool Hall in Beckington near Bath
0:35:39 > 0:35:43and I was over there for quite some time working on this record
0:35:43 > 0:35:47and also concurrently, I was just getting ready to start
0:35:47 > 0:35:51a new record with Joni Mitchell, who was my wife at the time.
0:35:53 > 0:35:57There was quite a vital music scene around Bath
0:35:57 > 0:35:59and the surrounding area in Somerset there.
0:35:59 > 0:36:03There were a lot of groups doing work. Tears for Fears were up there.
0:36:03 > 0:36:08You know, Peter Hamill was a guy who was working nearby.
0:36:08 > 0:36:11And so there was a lot of studio-hopping that went on.
0:36:11 > 0:36:15You know, within a half hour drive people would just drop in
0:36:15 > 0:36:17to someone else's session
0:36:17 > 0:36:22and then there was a number of different groups that were working on different things.
0:36:22 > 0:36:25And so, Joni and I just became a part of that little scene there
0:36:25 > 0:36:29and when Peter called me, which...
0:36:29 > 0:36:34I think it just turned out that he had some things that were unfinished
0:36:34 > 0:36:40and he probably found out from one of the circuit of people there
0:36:40 > 0:36:42that I was in town.
0:36:42 > 0:36:48Some of the ideas for Mercy Street came relatively easily.
0:36:48 > 0:36:53I mean, with Mercy Street, I found by chance these wonderful books
0:36:53 > 0:36:56of a poet called Anne Sexton,
0:36:56 > 0:36:57and she became the focus.
0:36:57 > 0:37:01I am a big fan of Anne Sexton's poetry,
0:37:01 > 0:37:05and was since I was 14, 15 years old.
0:37:05 > 0:37:10And so when I listened to the song I knew what he had written it about
0:37:10 > 0:37:13and what the centre of the song was about
0:37:13 > 0:37:16and it was just incredibly moving to me.
0:37:16 > 0:37:19# Looking down on empty streets
0:37:19 > 0:37:23# All she can see are the dreams All made solid
0:37:23 > 0:37:26# Are the dreams all made real
0:37:26 > 0:37:31# All of the buildings All of those cars
0:37:31 > 0:37:36# Were once just a dream In somebody's head. #
0:37:36 > 0:37:38The first thing that I did was...
0:37:38 > 0:37:40STRUMS GUITAR
0:37:44 > 0:37:50And then the other part was a fretless bass part but using tenths.
0:38:03 > 0:38:04You know, a lot of these songs changed,
0:38:04 > 0:38:06like Mercy Street
0:38:06 > 0:38:09became the song it became by an accident.
0:38:09 > 0:38:11It actually was originally a song called Furo,
0:38:11 > 0:38:14that Peter had recorded down in Brazil a couple of years beforehand.
0:38:14 > 0:38:16He'd recorded all the percussion elements.
0:38:16 > 0:38:21In my percussion research, you know,
0:38:21 > 0:38:24the most interesting things were coming out of Africa and Brazil.
0:38:24 > 0:38:29So I went down to Brazil and um...
0:38:29 > 0:38:32wanted to record with some percussionists there.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34One day we were working on one song
0:38:34 > 0:38:37and I just had the vari-speed of the machine engaged
0:38:37 > 0:38:40so the machine was actually running at its slowest potential speed.
0:38:40 > 0:38:42And the next song on the reel was Furo.
0:38:42 > 0:38:46It started to play, and Dan and Peter and I looked at one another
0:38:46 > 0:38:48and immediately went, "What is that sound?"
0:38:48 > 0:38:51because it was running at 10% slower than it should be running.
0:38:51 > 0:38:53And there was something about the percussion
0:38:53 > 0:38:55and the graininess of the percussion.
0:38:55 > 0:38:59We slowed down guitars, and I think we slowed down cymbals as well.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02Cos again, that's thinking...
0:39:02 > 0:39:06giving them extra weight and power.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08# Pulling out the papers
0:39:08 > 0:39:10# From the drawers that slide smooth
0:39:10 > 0:39:15# Tugging at the darkness Word upon word
0:39:15 > 0:39:20# Confessing all the secret things In the warm velvet box. #
0:39:20 > 0:39:23We didn't use headphones for Peter's singing.
0:39:23 > 0:39:27He had a little blaster at his piano.
0:39:27 > 0:39:29I don't like headphones.
0:39:29 > 0:39:31They're like condoms for the ears in a way, you know.
0:39:31 > 0:39:34You don't feel you're really connected
0:39:34 > 0:39:36and the extraordinary thing is,
0:39:36 > 0:39:40is that you can get exactly the same musical information
0:39:40 > 0:39:43and sing really out of tune with headphones
0:39:43 > 0:39:47and be very precise as soon as you are singing to the speakers.
0:39:47 > 0:39:50His monitor was really this little blaster
0:39:50 > 0:39:55and that's all he ever used and we just found a sweet spot,
0:39:55 > 0:39:57clearly the blasters at the back of the mic
0:39:57 > 0:39:59so there was some separation
0:39:59 > 0:40:03and I tried to keep Peter as close to the mike as possible.
0:40:06 > 0:40:09So the vocals are really important in this
0:40:09 > 0:40:12and I don't do a lot of vocal harmony work
0:40:12 > 0:40:15but here, it felt really important.
0:40:15 > 0:40:20It was sort of this sensual dream-like environment
0:40:20 > 0:40:22for Anne Sexton's world.
0:40:22 > 0:40:26So in the verse, one of the ideas to try and build the mystery
0:40:26 > 0:40:28was to put a shadow vocal in,
0:40:28 > 0:40:35so an octave below the main vocal there's this low voice.
0:40:35 > 0:40:36Should we solo that?
0:40:40 > 0:40:41# Confessing all the secret things. #
0:40:41 > 0:40:44And with the lead voice as well?
0:40:44 > 0:40:47# To the priest, he's the doctor
0:40:47 > 0:40:49# He can handle the shocks
0:40:49 > 0:40:53# Dreaming of the tenderness The tremble in the hips. #
0:40:53 > 0:40:56The one part that we couldn't execute at the time
0:40:56 > 0:41:00was the lowest voice, the low octave voice cos that's just in a part
0:41:00 > 0:41:04of Peter's range that is beautiful sounding but once he's up and about
0:41:04 > 0:41:08during the day and talking, that part usually kind of disappears.
0:41:08 > 0:41:11I had trouble doing that low voice.
0:41:11 > 0:41:13And apparently um...
0:41:13 > 0:41:16Well, I do remember that in the morning,
0:41:16 > 0:41:19you have morning voice, you know.
0:41:19 > 0:41:22I think a lot of people are familiar with a pre-coffee voice.
0:41:22 > 0:41:27So there we were discussing how to go about executing
0:41:27 > 0:41:31that low harmony performance and I just suggested that perhaps
0:41:31 > 0:41:34he would spend the night at the studio and I would prep the studio
0:41:34 > 0:41:36so that he'd come in first thing the next morning
0:41:36 > 0:41:40and without talking to anybody just put on the headphones and just start singing.
0:41:40 > 0:41:43We started at seven o'clock in the morning
0:41:43 > 0:41:47in order to get this voice before it had risen up to its normal level.
0:41:47 > 0:41:50And within an hour, we had a low harmony part on the track
0:41:50 > 0:41:53and that kind of helps pin the rest of the vocal.
0:41:53 > 0:41:58It kind of gives you the base layer from which all the other voices, you know, elevate.
0:41:58 > 0:42:02It's actually an effect that I liked a lot.
0:42:02 > 0:42:07# Mercy Street
0:42:07 > 0:42:11# Wear your insides out
0:42:11 > 0:42:15# Dreaming of mercy. #
0:42:15 > 0:42:17I've been very lucky musically.
0:42:17 > 0:42:20I never have any trouble generating new ideas
0:42:20 > 0:42:25but lyrically, getting something that I think is OK
0:42:25 > 0:42:29and as I get older, I think I get more critical, that is hard work.
0:42:29 > 0:42:34He would not want to finish working on the lyrics
0:42:34 > 0:42:38and Dan understandably would want him to finish working on the lyrics.
0:42:38 > 0:42:42I'm a master of distraction when I have a deadline.
0:42:42 > 0:42:47Peter would take a lot of phone calls when it got to, you know, an intense period of recording
0:42:47 > 0:42:50where he really needed to deliver.
0:42:50 > 0:42:54He was a master at finding moments to delay.
0:42:54 > 0:42:58I think I smashed a telephone and threw it in the bushes a few times
0:42:58 > 0:43:02because I didn't allow telephones on the session.
0:43:02 > 0:43:06When Peter'd been on the phone for a while and Danny eventually decided we needed to get back to work,
0:43:06 > 0:43:09so he took the phone out of Peter's hand and smashed it to pieces
0:43:09 > 0:43:11on the console without saying a word.
0:43:11 > 0:43:17Just smashed it to bits and carried right on as if nothing had happened!
0:43:19 > 0:43:23At a time when the lyrics were going a little slow
0:43:23 > 0:43:27and I said to Peter, "Why don't you just go in that cow barn of yours
0:43:27 > 0:43:29"and strike up the PA and get on with some lyrics?"
0:43:29 > 0:43:32So he went in and there were these huge spikes laying down there
0:43:32 > 0:43:36by the sliding door, one of those industrial sliding doors.
0:43:36 > 0:43:39I took the spikes and I nailed in him the studio.
0:43:39 > 0:43:40Peter had the PA turned up quite loud
0:43:40 > 0:43:44and he was playing the track and so Dan took up the six inch nail
0:43:44 > 0:43:48with the hammer, and in time with the music, hammered the door shut.
0:43:48 > 0:43:52Cos he was so frustrated at the speed or lack of speed.
0:43:52 > 0:43:56Um, there was one lyric I just couldn't...
0:43:56 > 0:43:59get satisfied with anything I was generating.
0:43:59 > 0:44:02Peter didn't hear him while he was doing that.
0:44:02 > 0:44:06So lunch was called. Dan and I went up for lunch
0:44:06 > 0:44:09and I remember saying to Dan, "Do you think we should let Peter..."
0:44:09 > 0:44:10He goes "No, he'll be fine."
0:44:10 > 0:44:16Peter is not a violent or aggressive man in any way shape or form.
0:44:16 > 0:44:19And he managed to take the door frame right out...
0:44:20 > 0:44:24..to open the door so he could get out of the room!
0:44:24 > 0:44:28Which was quite a feat, it was a big solid door,
0:44:28 > 0:44:31double layers of cinderblocks, concrete.
0:44:31 > 0:44:34It was quite impressive!
0:44:34 > 0:44:39And at the end of lunch, Peter says to Dan, "Can we have a word outside?"
0:44:39 > 0:44:41So they went outside and they exchanged a few words.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43And then we went back to work and that was it.
0:44:45 > 0:44:48I almost got fired and not many lyrics were written,
0:44:48 > 0:44:53but I think he got the idea that, you know, we weren't there...
0:44:53 > 0:44:56we weren't about to, you know, wait around for him.
0:44:56 > 0:44:59I just said, "Let's get the job done here,
0:44:59 > 0:45:02"Let's hit it with the sledgehammer."
0:45:02 > 0:45:05It was really late in the process, it was probably October, November,
0:45:05 > 0:45:09and then Peter was, like, "Well, we only had eight songs."
0:45:09 > 0:45:12There was another song that didn't get finished.
0:45:12 > 0:45:15And so we realised that we needed to come up with another song.
0:45:15 > 0:45:18And then Peter came out and said, "Well, let's use Excellent Birds."
0:45:18 > 0:45:22It was a last minute track coming from an alternative direction,
0:45:22 > 0:45:28but I thought it could be a nice... a nice inclusion.
0:45:28 > 0:45:34We came together in the studio, and that was here in my studio,
0:45:34 > 0:45:39and wrote this together, more or less trading lines I think.
0:45:39 > 0:45:41I said, "I'm doing a show about natural history"
0:45:41 > 0:45:44He said, "What about birds? Let's do something about birds."
0:45:44 > 0:45:50We had 48 hours before the deadline to write the song,
0:45:50 > 0:45:54including the lyric, record it, do the video
0:45:54 > 0:46:00and there's a point... on the second night
0:46:00 > 0:46:03where I'm trying to sing the vocal
0:46:03 > 0:46:08and I'm on a stool and I just stopped.
0:46:08 > 0:46:11And then after a while there was this...
0:46:11 > 0:46:15while the track is playing, snoring coming
0:46:15 > 0:46:17and there's no glass in the studio
0:46:17 > 0:46:21but they stopped eventually and peered round
0:46:21 > 0:46:27and I'd just fallen asleep mid-take, trying to do my vocal.
0:46:27 > 0:46:33And we looked a little weather-beaten the following day when we did the video.
0:46:35 > 0:46:39# Falling snow
0:46:39 > 0:46:42# Excellent snow
0:46:42 > 0:46:44# Here it comes
0:46:44 > 0:46:46# Watch it fall
0:46:46 > 0:46:50# Long words
0:46:50 > 0:46:52# Excellent words
0:46:52 > 0:46:54# I can hear them now. #
0:46:54 > 0:46:57Peter reached out to Lori and asked if he could use the track
0:46:57 > 0:47:01and she obviously gave her permission
0:47:01 > 0:47:03and that's when we started actually changing it
0:47:03 > 0:47:07and trying to shape it so that it would actually fit in with the rest of the songs on the record.
0:47:07 > 0:47:09# This is the picture
0:47:09 > 0:47:11# This is the picture
0:47:11 > 0:47:13# This is the picture
0:47:13 > 0:47:15# This is the picture. #
0:47:20 > 0:47:25That's another thing that I really admire about Peter's music.
0:47:25 > 0:47:28Um, it's forward looking.
0:47:28 > 0:47:32And the lyrics are forward and open
0:47:32 > 0:47:36and music is...
0:47:38 > 0:47:40..so much often about regret.
0:47:40 > 0:47:44I mean, if you didn't... You wouldn't have much music if you,
0:47:44 > 0:47:48you know, didn't have, you know... lots of regrets.
0:47:48 > 0:47:52I mean, I think Willie Nelson was the one who said, you know,
0:47:52 > 0:47:55"90% of us end up with the wrong person
0:47:55 > 0:47:57"and that's what makes the jukebox spin."
0:47:57 > 0:48:00I don't think it was on the original vinyl version.
0:48:00 > 0:48:02We didn't have enough space
0:48:02 > 0:48:07cos you sort of forget about those days where 22 or 24 minutes
0:48:07 > 0:48:10was the maximum you could pack onto a disc
0:48:10 > 0:48:15if you wanted to have the bass with any power to it.
0:48:15 > 0:48:21Cos the bigger bass you have, the deeper the grooves go
0:48:21 > 0:48:24and so you need to push them up the record
0:48:24 > 0:48:30cos the circle is getting smaller and smaller, if you imagine, with the needles,
0:48:30 > 0:48:36so it's harder and harder to get any bass as you arrive at the end.
0:48:36 > 0:48:41Vinyl actually is still my preferred way of listening to music
0:48:41 > 0:48:43because of the warmth,
0:48:43 > 0:48:46because of the physical interaction you have with the disc
0:48:46 > 0:48:48and even just the mere art of flipping it over,
0:48:48 > 0:48:51you're engaged with it.
0:48:51 > 0:48:54On CD, when it was recently reissued a few years ago,
0:48:54 > 0:48:57he put In Your Eyes at the back of the CD,
0:48:57 > 0:49:02where, apparently, he had originally intended it to go.
0:49:02 > 0:49:06But because of the way vinyl was, they made the other choice.
0:49:06 > 0:49:09It's one of the rare incidents where the CD is an improvement,
0:49:09 > 0:49:11at least in the running order,
0:49:11 > 0:49:16because on the original album, it ended with We Do What We're Told.
0:49:16 > 0:49:20And I think by putting it at the end of the CD
0:49:20 > 0:49:25he actually made the album more complete
0:49:25 > 0:49:30and gave it that sense of optimism, that there is a future,
0:49:30 > 0:49:33that we don't have to just do what we're told,
0:49:33 > 0:49:37and sometimes you can find your greater strength in the person next to you.
0:49:37 > 0:49:40I still don't like this title business
0:49:40 > 0:49:46and maybe a way round it is just to have one or two letters,
0:49:46 > 0:49:49because then it becomes like a piece of graphic.
0:49:49 > 0:49:54So, when I was thinking about So
0:49:54 > 0:49:58you know, I thought, "OK, well, we'll just make it two letters
0:49:58 > 0:50:01"and we'll choose letters that look quite nice in themselves."
0:50:01 > 0:50:05He had an idea about having a trilogy of sorts
0:50:05 > 0:50:08with just a two letter title, So being one of them, Us.
0:50:08 > 0:50:13But maybe it was, like, a backlash of the complexity
0:50:13 > 0:50:16of the making of this record that he wanted a nice, simple title.
0:50:16 > 0:50:19The less letters you have, the bigger you can make them.
0:50:19 > 0:50:23Ads, or you're out in the market place, you've got bigger billing
0:50:23 > 0:50:26than anyone else cos you've only got two letters.
0:50:26 > 0:50:30So, um... this was something that I liked
0:50:30 > 0:50:31and I've kept on doing ever since.
0:50:31 > 0:50:33# Love
0:50:37 > 0:50:41# I don't like to see so much pain
0:50:42 > 0:50:47# So much wasted. #
0:50:47 > 0:50:50I was fascinated in Africa that you could have a love song
0:50:50 > 0:50:56that was a religious song and a romantic love song at the same time.
0:50:56 > 0:51:02So I was trying to see if I could get that ambiguity in this lyric.
0:51:02 > 0:51:06For the track In Your Eyes, Peter says to me,
0:51:06 > 0:51:09"OK, we're going to do that, just play what you want to play."
0:51:09 > 0:51:12And in my mind I said, "What does that mean?
0:51:12 > 0:51:14"I don't know what...
0:51:14 > 0:51:17"I mean, I'm just going to play the track but what does that mean,
0:51:17 > 0:51:19'Play what you want to play' cos I'd never been used to that?"
0:51:19 > 0:51:22I had always been asked to play this or play like someone else.
0:51:22 > 0:51:26I was facing him with my drum kit.
0:51:26 > 0:51:30He was just standing in front of me, put the headphones on.
0:51:30 > 0:51:33I had the headphones, asked to have the track in the headphones
0:51:33 > 0:51:36and start dancing like an African but just so you know,
0:51:36 > 0:51:41Peter, the way he was at the time, very English, great face,
0:51:41 > 0:51:45great smile, trying to dance like African guys.
0:51:45 > 0:51:50I thought, "OK, if that guy, very English guy, go for it!"
0:51:50 > 0:51:52And that was the cue for me.
0:51:52 > 0:51:55I just, like, let it go, I just played like "OK."
0:51:55 > 0:51:58Anything. And it worked.
0:51:58 > 0:52:01And so once again, this project was very big for me musically
0:52:01 > 0:52:04cos I think he opened up my mind.
0:52:04 > 0:52:06There's a talking drum here.
0:52:06 > 0:52:09FAST DRUM BEATS
0:52:23 > 0:52:26You can't miss with this, everything you put up sounds great.
0:52:31 > 0:52:37We had...96, I think, Kevin would be able to confirm this,
0:52:37 > 0:52:44I think 96 different versions of In Your Eyes all on multi-track.
0:52:44 > 0:52:49So there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of different takes
0:52:49 > 0:52:54to choose from which were all organized by a gigantic wall chart
0:52:54 > 0:52:59which we eventually chopped together bar by bar out of two inch tape.
0:52:59 > 0:53:03With Danny and Peter and everybody listening just going,
0:53:03 > 0:53:08"OK, bar 1, take 37, we like that.
0:53:08 > 0:53:10"We'll take that one." So, that's where that one would go.
0:53:10 > 0:53:14And we literally assembled that song
0:53:14 > 0:53:18with 3, 6, 12 inch pieces of 2 inch tape,
0:53:18 > 0:53:20to actually create the rhythm track.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23We could have worked on that song for probably another couple of months
0:53:23 > 0:53:26and Youssou's part had gone on before Peter had done his lyric
0:53:26 > 0:53:28so Peter had to weave his performance around Youssou's,
0:53:28 > 0:53:32which, you know, was a wonderful thing and a great tapestry
0:53:32 > 0:53:36to sing against but it still was a complicated arrangement.
0:53:36 > 0:53:38Just the way that he delivered on that
0:53:38 > 0:53:44was so radically different from anything I think we were expecting.
0:53:44 > 0:53:47I think there's a lot of joy in the track for me
0:53:47 > 0:53:53and when Youssou's voice sort of milks the last bit of the song,
0:53:53 > 0:53:57you know, it's, it's like an ecstatic moment for me.
0:53:57 > 0:54:03In Your Eyes became an absolute anthem live,
0:54:03 > 0:54:09I mean, it was just... The way in which that song was on the record,
0:54:09 > 0:54:12became a whole other world live.
0:54:18 > 0:54:20# Your eyes
0:54:23 > 0:54:25# Your eyes
0:54:28 > 0:54:30# Your eyes
0:54:33 > 0:54:37# Your eyes
0:54:39 > 0:54:41# Your eyes
0:54:45 > 0:54:48# Your eyes. #
0:54:49 > 0:54:51It did go through a number of changes.
0:54:51 > 0:54:54The thing that was consistent was the "da-da-da-da-da",
0:54:54 > 0:54:57the sort of arpeggiated feature of the chorus.
0:54:57 > 0:55:00And there was an African groove underlying it.
0:55:06 > 0:55:11When we used to tour with Youssou there was always a fantastic moment
0:55:11 > 0:55:14you know, like the sun coming out so...
0:55:14 > 0:55:17it was nice to sort of tell a story, paint a picture
0:55:17 > 0:55:22and then just have this sort of open ecstasy.
0:55:25 > 0:55:29# In your eyes, the light
0:55:29 > 0:55:33# Warmer world, mine
0:55:33 > 0:55:35# Wo-ah-ah-ah
0:55:35 > 0:55:42# Wo-ah-ah. #
0:55:42 > 0:55:45It was really nice to see the energies of the two of them,
0:55:45 > 0:55:46how they looked at each other.
0:55:46 > 0:55:50And I could feel that something magic was happening.
0:55:59 > 0:56:03I listen to it on these tracks now and I know that these tracks
0:56:03 > 0:56:07were built by a young man who did nothing else with his life for a year.
0:56:07 > 0:56:10And um...
0:56:10 > 0:56:13and I can imagine what it's like to live the life of a monk now!
0:56:15 > 0:56:19A lot of things came together, I think, that opened it up
0:56:19 > 0:56:22to a much broader audience than I would normally get to.
0:56:22 > 0:56:28It was the moment the perfect storm hit and the man and the public
0:56:28 > 0:56:33and the record and the tour and everything, you know, came together.
0:56:33 > 0:56:36I surrounded myself with wonderful people,
0:56:36 > 0:56:40but in the end, I think it's, it's songs that speak.
0:56:40 > 0:56:47It so changed the landscape of recording for everybody, you know.
0:56:47 > 0:56:49I worked with a lot of guys
0:56:49 > 0:56:52and from that point on, it set the standard.
0:56:52 > 0:56:57It was such a well-produced album of very well-crafted songs,
0:56:57 > 0:57:01of incredible singing and phenomenal lyrics.
0:57:01 > 0:57:04It was the quintessential album.
0:57:04 > 0:57:07The right moment with the right people in the right place
0:57:07 > 0:57:09with the right things to do.
0:57:09 > 0:57:13I became fixated on it, let's say, you know,
0:57:13 > 0:57:17and to this day, it sounds like it could have been done yesterday.
0:57:17 > 0:57:20He made a classic album
0:57:20 > 0:57:24simply by making sure he made the best record he could
0:57:24 > 0:57:27at the moment and that's what classic albums are.
0:57:27 > 0:57:30The best album you could make at that moment
0:57:30 > 0:57:37and with the notion that you want it to live longer than you do.
0:57:38 > 0:57:40And he succeeded.
0:57:40 > 0:57:42# Your eyes
0:57:45 > 0:57:48# Your eyes
0:57:50 > 0:57:53# Your eyes
0:57:55 > 0:57:59# Your eyes
0:58:01 > 0:58:04# Your eyes
0:58:05 > 0:58:09# Your eyes
0:58:10 > 0:58:14# Your eyes
0:58:16 > 0:58:19# Your eyes. #
0:58:23 > 0:58:26Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd