0:00:02 > 0:00:06Friends, New Romantics, countrymen, lend me your years. Ha!
0:00:06 > 0:00:11Your '80s to be precise, because tonight I and three equally deluded
0:00:11 > 0:00:15time travellers seem to have landed in that tumultuous decade.
0:00:15 > 0:00:17What did it sound like?
0:00:17 > 0:00:20At the '70s end, punk had turned rock upside-down,
0:00:20 > 0:00:24proclaiming musically nothing mattered - anything goes,
0:00:24 > 0:00:26and get rid of all things that are boring.
0:00:26 > 0:00:29To which the 1980s immediately said,
0:00:29 > 0:00:32"Oh, good idea. We'll get rid of you for a start!"
0:00:32 > 0:00:35MUSIC: "Blue Monday" by New Order
0:00:50 > 0:00:53So, the 1980s, superficially recalled
0:00:53 > 0:00:56as the superficial decade of British rock.
0:00:56 > 0:01:01A jumbled, hazy fantasia of stadium rock, MTV and giant shoulder pads,
0:01:01 > 0:01:05dwarfed only by the sound of even bigger drums.
0:01:05 > 0:01:08Are these verities or balderdash?
0:01:08 > 0:01:12Is this the decade when British rock's movers and tambourine shakers
0:01:12 > 0:01:13decided to sell out?
0:01:13 > 0:01:17When rock fans splintered into tribes and guitarists fought
0:01:17 > 0:01:20synthesiser play-offs in back alleyways, Ron Burgundy style?
0:01:20 > 0:01:24To roast these old chestnuts are three chin-stroking scrutineers
0:01:24 > 0:01:25who were actually there.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28The music presenter turned publisher, who seemed to oversee
0:01:28 > 0:01:31every British music magazine in the 1980s.
0:01:31 > 0:01:35The actor, DJ, writer and all-in-one hilarious hyphenate.
0:01:35 > 0:01:39And, lastly, the fedora-flaunting ska-monger from Two Tone's finest,
0:01:39 > 0:01:40The Selecter.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44Over there, a man whose inky fingers have been all over
0:01:44 > 0:01:48printed pop culture and televised, this last, what, hundred years now?
0:01:48 > 0:01:51Not only that, as an added bonus, if you squint,
0:01:51 > 0:01:55he looks like a cross between Paul McCartney and Derek Nimmo.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57- That's Mark Ellen, by the way. - Very flattered.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01Over there, a genuine, bona fide, blossoming pop star
0:02:01 > 0:02:06who first in the '80s walked through this garden we're discussing tonight
0:02:06 > 0:02:09and is still seeding that very same turf in a powerful way,
0:02:09 > 0:02:11it's Pauline Black.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13And right here, well, man alive,
0:02:13 > 0:02:17everybody under the age of 60 will instantly recognise
0:02:17 > 0:02:20one of the great broadcasters of the modern age,
0:02:20 > 0:02:23a tremendous writer, a true child of the '80s,
0:02:23 > 0:02:26which probably means he'll be 24, 25 next week, something like that?
0:02:26 > 0:02:29- Nearly 30.- Adam Buxton.
0:02:29 > 0:02:34The question I'm going to put to you, we've previously asked people the first LP they ever bought,
0:02:34 > 0:02:37but we're in the '80s now - brand new technology.
0:02:37 > 0:02:41Erm, here's something, the first time you heard a Walkman?
0:02:41 > 0:02:46Do you remember seeing that and thinking, "What is this? How can this possibly be?"
0:02:46 > 0:02:48- Did you have a Walkman early on? - I did have a Walkman.
0:02:48 > 0:02:53- In the Smash Hits office, actually... - Which of course...- Where I worked.
0:02:53 > 0:02:55David Hepworth had interviewed Stewart Copeland of The Police.
0:02:55 > 0:02:59Stewart Copeland had brought one of the gadgets back from Japan.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02It seemed completely magical, the idea you could go on the Tube,
0:03:02 > 0:03:06underground or anywhere, and listen to the record you wanted to hear.
0:03:06 > 0:03:07It was revolutionary.
0:03:07 > 0:03:11It really was. I know it sounds like old soldiers talking.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14I saw one, Paul Morley in the NME came in one day.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16"Listen to that." And I was...
0:03:16 > 0:03:19"Golly! Here we are, Metropolis!"
0:03:19 > 0:03:22Pauline, did you get in early on the music on the move thing?
0:03:22 > 0:03:26Yeah, I had a tape Walkman. It was a really nice, little oblong thing,
0:03:26 > 0:03:30- and Chrysalis Records bought them for everyone in the band.- Did they?
0:03:30 > 0:03:35Yeah, that was the nicest thing they did. They weren't quite so nice the following year.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38Them were the days, when record companies said, "Have stuff."
0:03:38 > 0:03:43But I remember, I think the first thing I ever listened to on it was
0:03:43 > 0:03:45- probably Yoko Ono's Walking On Thin Ice.- Was it?!
0:03:45 > 0:03:48- I got the little grey... - Did it not explode?
0:03:48 > 0:03:50Oh, come on!
0:03:50 > 0:03:53Only the bit when she got to the vomiting.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56- LAUGHTER - Adam, how about you?
0:03:56 > 0:03:59Did you...you took them for granted, I suspect, Walkmans, did you?
0:03:59 > 0:04:03No, no. It was a big deal when I got the first one.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06I saved up to get an incredibly slimline one
0:04:06 > 0:04:09that was really no bigger than the actual cassette, you know?
0:04:09 > 0:04:11It was almost as if there was a bit of metal
0:04:11 > 0:04:14that slid on to the cassette and that was it.
0:04:14 > 0:04:18The first thing I listened to was Hunky Dory by Bowie.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21Listening to Quicksand, the bit where it breaks down
0:04:21 > 0:04:23and there's guitars popping left and right,
0:04:23 > 0:04:27it was unbelievable and, yeah, I couldn't get over it.
0:04:27 > 0:04:30It really was an extraordinary break through.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33I think more than many of the things we are going to discuss tonight.
0:04:33 > 0:04:37The '70s had been merely a palate cleanser for what was to come.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39Punk had set the stage.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42Sadly, the '80s generation looked at this stage and said,
0:04:42 > 0:04:43"Bit dreary, innit?"
0:04:47 > 0:04:49The 1980s.
0:04:49 > 0:04:53Yeah, it was the best of times and it was the worst of times,
0:04:53 > 0:04:56and you can chose which of these images make that work for you.
0:04:57 > 0:05:01Your basic rock music had had a new lick of war paint
0:05:01 > 0:05:05and, if anything, was more popular and preposterous than ever.
0:05:05 > 0:05:09And one imaginary, although thoroughly authentic band,
0:05:09 > 0:05:13highlighted rock's contemporary, predictable predicament.
0:05:13 > 0:05:16Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number
0:05:16 > 0:05:19and make that a little louder?
0:05:19 > 0:05:21These go to eleven.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24Following the genius of Spinal Tap, it became difficult
0:05:24 > 0:05:28to take the antics of rock's old guard quite so seriously.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31The decade was often brash
0:05:31 > 0:05:35and happily once more pushed the boundaries of good taste.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38# Sex dwarf. #
0:05:38 > 0:05:41It was nothing if not, erm, bold.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46# Wild, go wild Go wild in the country... #
0:05:46 > 0:05:50Here was a new generation, with their super cheap synthesisers
0:05:50 > 0:05:54inspired by imported sounds that would have baffled Nigel Tufnel.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57Behold, John Foxx singing Underpass.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59# Underpass. #
0:06:00 > 0:06:03Though, of course, everybody called it Underpants.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06# Underpass. #
0:06:06 > 0:06:11These new pantalooned harlequins scoffed at sweaty bedenimed rockers
0:06:11 > 0:06:14and their old-fashioned ways.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18Some musicians, like Heaven 17, knew that gigs were all over.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21The way forward - business meetings.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26Rock was fracturing to create exciting new possibilities.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30Chrissie Hynde and the Pretenders forged a perfect singles sound.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33# Make you, make you notice. #
0:06:33 > 0:06:37The Specials punked up ska and politicised pop.
0:06:38 > 0:06:41# You've done too much Much too young. #
0:06:41 > 0:06:45And these three blokes made the whole planet a Police state.
0:06:45 > 0:06:47# Don't stand so close to me. #
0:06:47 > 0:06:53New Order, who, despite themselves, helped inspire an indie explosion.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57To be young and rocking Croc's disco in Rayleigh in the early '80s
0:06:57 > 0:07:00was to be where it's happening. Look, I'm happening here.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04Since the beginning of the year, Saturday night has been Glamour Club night
0:07:04 > 0:07:07and Depeche Mode have appeared here regularly.
0:07:07 > 0:07:09So has Albert. He's the crocodile.
0:07:10 > 0:07:12Even I was trying to join in
0:07:12 > 0:07:16but suddenly all my knowledge about the 1970s wasn't much use.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19# I just can't get enough. #
0:07:19 > 0:07:22How did you realise that there was something else going on?
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Well, I think I realised most when...
0:07:25 > 0:07:28duos where the thing that really struck me.
0:07:28 > 0:07:31It was interesting because I was a teenager in the '70s
0:07:31 > 0:07:34so I was used to rock and roll bands and duos arrived.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37It was Soft Cell, OMD, Eurythmics, Yazoo.
0:07:37 > 0:07:42And duos had dumped the cumbersome paraphernalia of the 1970s
0:07:42 > 0:07:46like a rhythm section, like old amps and Marshall stacks and stuff,
0:07:46 > 0:07:49and the studio had become the instrument.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52And that struck me as fascinating.
0:07:52 > 0:07:56I can remember a conversation in Smash Hits, talking about the groups
0:07:56 > 0:07:59that we'd grown up with and what if they came out now?
0:07:59 > 0:08:02The Beatles, would they just be Lennon and McCartney? Johnny and the Moondog?
0:08:02 > 0:08:05Would The Stones just be called The Glimmer Twins, just Keith and Mick?
0:08:05 > 0:08:09The Kinks would be The Davies Brothers. You didn't need...
0:08:09 > 0:08:11It was very interesting,
0:08:11 > 0:08:15these mobile light units of just synthesisers.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18Did you ease into the 1980s or were you a bit unnerved, Pauline,
0:08:18 > 0:08:23by thinking, "This seems like a brave new world. Anything goes now."
0:08:23 > 0:08:26In terms...the '80s is all about everything getting bigger,
0:08:26 > 0:08:29but there was a recession going on at that time
0:08:29 > 0:08:33and I always thought that record companies had basically got bored
0:08:33 > 0:08:37with there being seven people in a band and all the infighting,
0:08:37 > 0:08:40and when technology came along and you had a nice synthesiser,
0:08:40 > 0:08:45two people, you'd halved your budget, more than halved your budget
0:08:45 > 0:08:48in terms of tour support, getting them out there, doing those things.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51And you only had two people to grumble at each other.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53That was easily kind of sorted out.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56And I think also, all of a sudden,
0:08:56 > 0:08:59pop stars, the world was full of pop stars,
0:08:59 > 0:09:02said, "Want us to smile and wear a suit for that camera?" "Yeah!"
0:09:02 > 0:09:05That was nice and malleable as well.
0:09:05 > 0:09:09Adam, the 1980s, did you feel of a peace with it?
0:09:09 > 0:09:11I was born into it, so...
0:09:11 > 0:09:15Well, I was obviously born earlier than the '80s, I was born in '69,
0:09:15 > 0:09:18so when the '80s rolled around and I started getting interested
0:09:18 > 0:09:22in music properly, I was, you know, 11 or 12, so...
0:09:22 > 0:09:25Who would that have been?
0:09:25 > 0:09:28I was most excited by people who I thought maybe were robots
0:09:28 > 0:09:32or from space or the future - Gary Numan
0:09:32 > 0:09:34and Depeche Mode.
0:09:34 > 0:09:37You know, I remember listening to New Life and just thinking,
0:09:37 > 0:09:40"This is amazing! This is the best thing I've ever heard."
0:09:40 > 0:09:44It doesn't sound like any of the stuff with guitars and drums,
0:09:44 > 0:09:48this is just a whole different musical palette that I really love.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51So how did you view your elder brother's or other people's
0:09:51 > 0:09:54record collections that had these hairy old bands in or lone folkies?
0:09:54 > 0:09:56Yeah, boring.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59I mean, I was the eldest child,
0:09:59 > 0:10:02so I was the trailblazer musically in my family,
0:10:02 > 0:10:06but other stuff that I heard, like friends of mine who did have
0:10:06 > 0:10:11older brothers and were bringing in tapes of, erm, The Beatles
0:10:11 > 0:10:13or whoever it happened to be, at that point I thought,
0:10:13 > 0:10:18this is a bit boring and this is the kind of stuff my parents might listen to.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20Bowie was the only one that cut through that.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23- No Deep Purple? No Zeppelin? - No, there was no rock.
0:10:23 > 0:10:28I never really had a way into any of that so when all the big rock bands
0:10:28 > 0:10:30started doing well in the '80s,
0:10:30 > 0:10:33erm, whether it was, I mean, Iron Maiden,
0:10:33 > 0:10:36- a lot of Iron Maiden fans were friends of mine.- Huge.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39But, no, I couldn't get to grips with that at all.
0:10:39 > 0:10:44That's the thing people are still uncomfortable with, because people like to cherry-pick
0:10:44 > 0:10:48but the real big world-beaters and global was this new wave
0:10:48 > 0:10:51of British heavy metal thing, which we'll hear about,
0:10:51 > 0:10:55and those groups like Iron Maiden, who did not want the '70s to end.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58The '80s more than any other decade put the accent on style.
0:10:58 > 0:11:03An accent so thick at times that nobody was quite sure what it was saying, but it didn't matter.
0:11:03 > 0:11:07Individuality was paramount. Find yourself a unique look and a sound
0:11:07 > 0:11:12and then join thousands of others exactly the same. Rock went tribal.
0:11:14 > 0:11:18In the 1980s, it was fantastically important once again
0:11:18 > 0:11:21that a pop-picker choose a tribe and stick with it.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26Some of these tribes were revivals of scenes
0:11:26 > 0:11:28that had thrived in previous decades,
0:11:28 > 0:11:32like skinhead, mods and even punk wasn't dead.
0:11:32 > 0:11:36Well, not as dead as, say, music hall.
0:11:38 > 0:11:42A jump jiving return of 1950s rockabilly stylings
0:11:42 > 0:11:46brought us all The Hepcats, The Stray Cats...
0:11:47 > 0:11:49..The Polecats...
0:11:50 > 0:11:53..and even that shakin' cat, Stevens.
0:11:53 > 0:11:55# You ought to see my baby in a hot dog stand... #
0:11:56 > 0:12:01At the start of the decade, the thriving ska and two tone scenes
0:12:01 > 0:12:03combined searching social commentary...
0:12:03 > 0:12:06# Stand down, Margaret Stand down, please
0:12:06 > 0:12:09# Stand down, Margaret... #
0:12:10 > 0:12:13..with a spectacular dance floor bounce.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15# Three minute hero (I wanna be)
0:12:15 > 0:12:17# Three minute hero... #
0:12:17 > 0:12:21While heavy metal, that stinking, sweaty, swaggering stalwart
0:12:21 > 0:12:23had a huge rebirth.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25I despise the term heavy metal.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28He despises his T-shirt, too.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30The new wave of British heavy metal,
0:12:30 > 0:12:33or NWOBHM if you want to be unwieldy,
0:12:33 > 0:12:36brought in an influential new guard of hard rockers,
0:12:36 > 0:12:39including a revitalised Iron Maiden,
0:12:39 > 0:12:42an incandescent Def Leppard
0:12:42 > 0:12:45and, of course, Dumpy's Rusty Nuts.
0:12:48 > 0:12:53From the remains of London's punk scene emerged both the New Romantics
0:12:53 > 0:12:58and, slightly later, their pale cousins, the early Goths,
0:12:58 > 0:13:02pioneered by acts like Alien Sex Fiend and Specimen.
0:13:02 > 0:13:05# With your back in the sack And your leather anorak
0:13:05 > 0:13:07# Do you feel dark? #
0:13:07 > 0:13:10These dapper darlings fused glam's ostentation
0:13:10 > 0:13:13with a rather tongue-in-cheek morbidity.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16# Hey, now, hey, now, now
0:13:16 > 0:13:19# Sing this corrosion to me... #
0:13:19 > 0:13:22They created a style of music and fashion
0:13:22 > 0:13:25which was to become one of '80s rock's most enduring.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28Lighten up, kids. You're on telly.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34But, as ever, pop tribes weren't just about worshipping rock heroes,
0:13:34 > 0:13:37they were about sharing your music with your mates.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40Pauline, someone ensconced right in the middle
0:13:40 > 0:13:44of one of the most powerful of all the youth tribes at that time,
0:13:44 > 0:13:48the whole ska movement and two tone, how did you tumble into that
0:13:48 > 0:13:51and why did you want that, why did you cling on to that?
0:13:51 > 0:13:55I think that I was attracted, obviously, to the two tone movement
0:13:55 > 0:13:59by the fact that it was, if you like, it was against racism,
0:13:59 > 0:14:02it was against sexism, that was the whole ethos...
0:14:02 > 0:14:06- It was a lot of fun as well. - ..and it was a lot of fun, yes.
0:14:06 > 0:14:08And you got to dress up.
0:14:08 > 0:14:10I had always really liked hats, as you can tell.
0:14:10 > 0:14:13You wear it quite well. You do wear it very well.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17It was one of those things where you went out and you did the gigs
0:14:17 > 0:14:19and everybody was there.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22There were mods there, there were old rockers there, punks.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25Had you always, like the punks said, "I want to be in a band
0:14:25 > 0:14:29"and this is my opportunity?" Had you always wanted to be in a band?
0:14:29 > 0:14:32No, I was a radiographer taking X-rays and stuff like that.
0:14:32 > 0:14:36I'd... The most I'd wanted to do was sing songs and play guitar.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39And then I just fetched up in this band.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42I was headhunted, I think, by Lynval Golding out of The Specials.
0:14:42 > 0:14:46He said, "I know the geezer who's trying to get a band together.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49"The B-side on our record, Gangsters, and stuff like that."
0:14:49 > 0:14:54So I turned up and I think I was wearing pink spandex at that time
0:14:54 > 0:14:58and then metamorphosed into something like this a week later.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01And did you mix and mingle with other people
0:15:01 > 0:15:03who were into other things?
0:15:03 > 0:15:06- Did you knock around with any of the heavy metal...?- Yeah!
0:15:06 > 0:15:10Oh, heavy metal? No, never. I hate heavy metal.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12I hate heavy metal with a passion.
0:15:12 > 0:15:15We should call this show I Hate The '80s.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19- It was a big heavy metal decade, of course.- As far as I was concerned
0:15:19 > 0:15:22and the people that I knew, heavy metal didn't exist.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25That existed somewhere else in some white male,
0:15:25 > 0:15:28kind of, long-haired situation.
0:15:28 > 0:15:33Erm, I hung out with people who were a little bit more gregarious,
0:15:33 > 0:15:37with people who might be into reggae and things like that.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41And, erm, also was acquainted with punk.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44- Erm, or any of the other genres. - Sure.
0:15:44 > 0:15:47Black music at that time, that was the crossover
0:15:47 > 0:15:50and that was the good thing about the two tone movement.
0:15:50 > 0:15:54It made that crossover, it made that synthesis between white kids
0:15:54 > 0:15:58who were into punk and a bit of rock maybe, or whatever,
0:15:58 > 0:16:00and black kids who were into reggae
0:16:00 > 0:16:02and wanted something a bit more danceable.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04Adam, what about you? Did you ever belong?
0:16:04 > 0:16:08Are there photographs of you saying, "It's a necessary phase for me to go through.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11- "There I am, I'm a Goth." - Not really.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15- THEY LAUGH - No, I never really belonged.
0:16:15 > 0:16:20I got into Talking Heads and saw Stop Making Sense
0:16:20 > 0:16:25and convinced myself that if I wore one of my dad's oversized suits
0:16:25 > 0:16:28and did my top button up, I would be like David Byrne.
0:16:28 > 0:16:30Then I thought, "I should go further with this
0:16:30 > 0:16:34"cos this look is really going some exciting places now.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37"So I love punk music so I should..."
0:16:37 > 0:16:40- What I did was get a string of safety pins.- Did you?
0:16:40 > 0:16:44And I pinned them from one shoulder to the other,
0:16:44 > 0:16:50as if I was a kind of decorated army guy from the punk wars.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53Commissar. And where did you go?
0:16:53 > 0:16:56Did you find anyone else who was like that?
0:16:56 > 0:16:59No, not really. My friends laughed at me...
0:16:59 > 0:17:02It is a lone club, isn't it?
0:17:02 > 0:17:05They gently sort of took the piss and I found out years later
0:17:05 > 0:17:08that I was a figure of ridicule amongst them.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11- You were searching for something, that's the main thing.- Yeah.
0:17:11 > 0:17:15Yeah. The make-up thing I certainly was attracted to,
0:17:15 > 0:17:17but not in a massive way because it would be too embarrassing.
0:17:17 > 0:17:19I'm very middle-class. That's my background.
0:17:19 > 0:17:24And my parents would have gone mental but I sort of subtly...
0:17:24 > 0:17:27before I went out, I would grab some of my mother's make-up
0:17:27 > 0:17:28and do a bit of eyeliner,
0:17:28 > 0:17:33put some make-up on my lips to make them all white
0:17:33 > 0:17:37- as if I was a kind of sexy corpse. - What was your hair like?
0:17:37 > 0:17:42The hair has always been a problem and I was too embarrassed
0:17:42 > 0:17:46to make any proper statements so all it was was a sort of wedge.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49And did this marry up with any one particular type of music?
0:17:49 > 0:17:52Was there something you thought, "I'm dedicated to that"?
0:17:52 > 0:17:55No, I was kind of cherry-picking from all over the place
0:17:55 > 0:17:59cos I loved... You know, tunes is where it was at, right? Pop music.
0:17:59 > 0:18:02I loved all the ska and two tone because that was tune central.
0:18:02 > 0:18:06- Loved Bowie. - Were you a snob, though?
0:18:06 > 0:18:08And I mean that in a good way.
0:18:08 > 0:18:11Did you like, for instance, Duran Duran and Adam Ant?
0:18:11 > 0:18:13Yeah, absolutely.
0:18:13 > 0:18:15I was wary of Duran Duran because there was too much...
0:18:15 > 0:18:18There was a huge amount of social pressure not to like them
0:18:18 > 0:18:21cos that was girl music and if you like that then you were a girl
0:18:21 > 0:18:25or you liked girls and at 11 that was not an option.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28But I loved Bowie enough to think,
0:18:28 > 0:18:34"Well, it's OK to embrace all these different kinds of music."
0:18:34 > 0:18:37Mark, as an older fellow, and we are peers...
0:18:37 > 0:18:39No, that's fine.
0:18:39 > 0:18:43How did you adapt to that?
0:18:43 > 0:18:46Just listening to Adam and Pauline it made me feel very envious
0:18:46 > 0:18:49and I remember feeling envious at the time because when I was a kid,
0:18:49 > 0:18:51the tribes, broadly,
0:18:51 > 0:18:54were people who liked rock music and those who didn't, in a way.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56And within rock music
0:18:56 > 0:18:59I suppose there was a soul tribe and then there was the glam tribe
0:18:59 > 0:19:01and then the American rock fans.
0:19:01 > 0:19:04So that was denim jacket versus a bit of eyeliner.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07But I remember in the '80s when I was, again, at Smash Hits,
0:19:07 > 0:19:10and we used to look across out of the window down Carnaby Street,
0:19:10 > 0:19:12directly under the window where we used to work at the NME
0:19:12 > 0:19:16was a shop called Cascade and they sold - this would have been '82 -
0:19:16 > 0:19:18and they sold skinny mod ties and shiny suits,
0:19:18 > 0:19:23they sold mohair jumpers and Sid and Nancy posters.
0:19:23 > 0:19:28They sold New Romantic throws and pixie boots.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31But this is telling because, again, you're seeing for the first time,
0:19:31 > 0:19:34even though you could always buy Ben Sherman or whatever it is
0:19:34 > 0:19:37and you could find your stuff, it was starting to get catered for.
0:19:37 > 0:19:39Completely. And that was a look.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42And I used to watch teenagers going into this shop
0:19:42 > 0:19:45and they would come out an hour later and they would either be
0:19:45 > 0:19:49Steve Strange of Visage or Brian Setzer of Stray Cats or something.
0:19:49 > 0:19:54And they had those various options and I remember thinking that being very, very exciting.
0:19:54 > 0:19:58Obviously, I wasn't the generation to be in those particular tribes
0:19:58 > 0:20:02but it became very fascinating and Smash Hits readers would write to us,
0:20:02 > 0:20:05particularly the Goths, and I could really understand it.
0:20:05 > 0:20:10Because Goth was about feeling alienated, feeling misunderstood.
0:20:10 > 0:20:13The scattered building bricks tossed about by the punks
0:20:13 > 0:20:16in the late '70s were suddenly gathered together
0:20:16 > 0:20:18to create the '80s indie movement,
0:20:18 > 0:20:21a burgeoning cottage industry that in its own charming,
0:20:21 > 0:20:24homespun way, seemed to have no desire to rule the world,
0:20:24 > 0:20:29just to make some simple, honest music in its own time and style.
0:20:29 > 0:20:31Yeah, crafty.
0:20:34 > 0:20:38The '80s was the decade had give us a fresh kind of musical maverick.
0:20:40 > 0:20:42This was the indie boom.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46In 1983, Manchester independent label Factory Records
0:20:46 > 0:20:50released the biggest selling 12 inch single of all time.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55New Order's Blue Monday.
0:20:56 > 0:21:01Here was the UK independent record label making a global impact.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05Inspired by their DIY ethic inherited from punk...
0:21:05 > 0:21:07It really is almost like a folk industry.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11..labels like Creation, 4AD, Postcard and Rough Trade
0:21:11 > 0:21:15carved out a new market for their idiosyncratic turns.
0:21:15 > 0:21:19The indie boom brought with it a whole bunch of bands from towns
0:21:19 > 0:21:22and cities around the country,
0:21:22 > 0:21:25unapologetically proud of their regional roots.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28These acts came from Liverpool,
0:21:28 > 0:21:32from Glasgow and from that hitherto untapped hotbed of avant-garde,
0:21:32 > 0:21:35Cardigan, West Wales.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38# Coginio mewn saim... #
0:21:40 > 0:21:441984 saw the release of the first album by The Smiths.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47# Would you like to marry me
0:21:47 > 0:21:50# And if you like you can buy the ring... #
0:21:50 > 0:21:54These were the days when Stephen Morrissey actually turned up for things.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58Above all, The Smiths proved that the indie rock star could
0:21:58 > 0:22:03incite as much feverish devotion as any uber produced pop moppet.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06The fact that indie really was just a music biz distribution term
0:22:06 > 0:22:10meant that some unlikely acts crept into the so-called indie charts,
0:22:10 > 0:22:14many put there by aggressive pop pedlar Pete Waterman.
0:22:15 > 0:22:18Still, in the emerging indie genre,
0:22:18 > 0:22:21twee jangle pop was in generous supply.
0:22:21 > 0:22:26Others took a more robust approach to alternative rocking.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29East Kilbride's finest The Jesus And Mary Chain
0:22:29 > 0:22:32even managed to spark an actual audience riot
0:22:32 > 0:22:35at the notorious North London Poly gig.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39By the late '80s, indie had left the solitary bedrooms
0:22:39 > 0:22:43of shambling music fans and was heading out onto the dance floor...
0:22:43 > 0:22:44# Pump up the volume... #
0:22:44 > 0:22:48..where it was met by an even newer wave of pop rebels,
0:22:48 > 0:22:53the emergent acid house scene, who carried DIY into a new decade.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58- Are you feeling more at home, Adam? - No.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01That's just like a whole list of scenes that I felt excluded from.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04Really?
0:23:04 > 0:23:06No, towards the end certainly,
0:23:06 > 0:23:09when things started getting ravey I was totally disenfranchised.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11I can imagine. I was.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14Because it was so much about the drugs
0:23:14 > 0:23:17and I was too frightened to do any of that.
0:23:17 > 0:23:19I mean, before then,
0:23:19 > 0:23:24when it was the janglier side of things, the indie movement,
0:23:24 > 0:23:27I was certainly on board for Orange Juice
0:23:27 > 0:23:30and that kind of slightly fey pop thing.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32How about something like The Fall, who I didn't consider it...
0:23:32 > 0:23:34- Too frightening.- Really?
0:23:34 > 0:23:37The Fall was something I got into later on when I was at college and
0:23:37 > 0:23:42then sort of mined retrospectively thereafter and, you know, loved.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44But at that point, too frightening
0:23:44 > 0:23:47because I felt like they probably would hate me.
0:23:47 > 0:23:49You used a collective term then.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52I think you mean "he" would probably have hated you.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54He would hate me but probably Morrissey would hate me,
0:23:54 > 0:23:56probably anyone from the North would hate me
0:23:56 > 0:23:59because I was this little middle-class Southerner
0:23:59 > 0:24:02so it was too scary whereas Edwyn Collins looked as if
0:24:02 > 0:24:04maybe he would hold my hand and...
0:24:04 > 0:24:07Let me go onto middle ground. Julian Cope.
0:24:07 > 0:24:11Yeah, well, you couldn't deny the tune power.
0:24:11 > 0:24:14- Magnificent. - Reward, when that came out,
0:24:14 > 0:24:19that sort of blew my mind cos it was so sort of exciting and epic.
0:24:19 > 0:24:23And, of course, one of the great opening lines of all pop history,
0:24:23 > 0:24:27- "Bless my cotton socks I'm in the news."- Yeah!
0:24:27 > 0:24:31Pauline, and on one of the most famous of all indie labels,
0:24:31 > 0:24:35when you are recording and working within 2 Tone,
0:24:35 > 0:24:39did you feel they were going places, that this is where you wanted to be?
0:24:39 > 0:24:42Did it feel any different from subsequent experiences you've had?
0:24:42 > 0:24:46It had a wonderful identity because of the Walt Jabsco, you know,
0:24:46 > 0:24:49the little cartoon figure that there was
0:24:49 > 0:24:51and the whole black and white thing.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54It was simple and it was out there and we were doing it
0:24:54 > 0:24:56and it all had little numbers.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59- The first one was stamped, you know. - Yeah.
0:24:59 > 0:25:01The Specials versus The Selector,
0:25:01 > 0:25:05just like old sort of things from Jamaica
0:25:05 > 0:25:08at that time with the sound systems.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10So it wasn't new for us
0:25:10 > 0:25:13when people started coming along and doing this indie stuff.
0:25:13 > 0:25:17- It was like, "Yeah, OK." - And yet you were part of Chrysalis.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20Chrysalis owned that label, as such,
0:25:20 > 0:25:24and gave us the money to be able to go away and do things
0:25:24 > 0:25:26and also we were regional.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29We were from Coventry and who else had heard...
0:25:29 > 0:25:32What did Coventry have before? Frank Ifield!
0:25:32 > 0:25:35- THEY LAUGH - Is Frank from Coventry?
0:25:35 > 0:25:39Yeah, Frank is from Coventry. No, I mean, my mum loved Frank.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41I mean, I'm not putting Frank down.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44If EMI had come in with a great big fat cheque,
0:25:44 > 0:25:46would you have jumped ship?
0:25:46 > 0:25:51Erm, things like that did kind of happen, maybe not with EMI,
0:25:51 > 0:25:53and we really were that dumb.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56We thought, "Oh, no. It's great." You know, "Our independence."
0:25:56 > 0:26:00And then along came Spandau Ballet...
0:26:00 > 0:26:03- You know, I remember sitting... - You spat that out!
0:26:03 > 0:26:05I remember sitting in the offices of Chrysalis. I know!
0:26:05 > 0:26:07It did sound a bit bitchy, didn't it?
0:26:07 > 0:26:11I remember sitting and we were there more or less begging for an advance
0:26:11 > 0:26:14cos we needed to do another album and stuff like this, as you do.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18In the A&R department and the head of A&R at the time, Roy Aldridge,
0:26:18 > 0:26:20picked up, ceremoniously,
0:26:20 > 0:26:23this kind of single or something and put it on.
0:26:23 > 0:26:25I think it was To Cut A Long Story Short or something like that
0:26:25 > 0:26:29and said, "This is the future of pop." Really, that pompously.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32The '80s was all about being pompous, just like old Maggie,
0:26:32 > 0:26:35- do you know what I mean? Being pompous.- There was a lot of that.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38And people in the Chrysalis record company went,
0:26:38 > 0:26:40overnight, from wearing black and white and rude boy hats
0:26:40 > 0:26:44and all this kind of thing to wearing scarves, kind of...
0:26:45 > 0:26:49And kilts and we just thought, "It's all over now!"
0:26:49 > 0:26:52And it's almost as if the record companies are fickle and disloyal.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55I don't know if I'm getting the wrong message.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58No, it's just they're selling baked beans and if you can make
0:26:58 > 0:27:02money off that can of baked beans we'll make money off that can. Thank you, goodbye.
0:27:02 > 0:27:06The upside for you, of dealing with all of this indie stuff,
0:27:06 > 0:27:10it's everywhere from Nottingham, from Devon.
0:27:10 > 0:27:11Yeah, I've got a real fondness for it.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13Firstly, it meant that you travelled.
0:27:13 > 0:27:17I remember going to Liverpool pretty much virtually every day of the week.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19You'd go on Monday and it would be Teardrop Explodes,
0:27:19 > 0:27:23on Tuesday you'd be interviewing the Bunnymen and Wednesday with Wah! Heat
0:27:23 > 0:27:26and Thursday, Big In Japan and then suddenly we would switch to Sheffield
0:27:26 > 0:27:28and it was ABC and Human League.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31Why weren't these bands getting on trains to London all of a sudden?
0:27:31 > 0:27:34Because the journalists wanted to go and interview them on home turf.
0:27:34 > 0:27:38That was half the excitement of it, was that Liverpool was back.
0:27:38 > 0:27:41I remember that being very exciting and I also that London...
0:27:41 > 0:27:43it was very humbling for London.
0:27:43 > 0:27:46London had been the...particularly with the New Romantic thing,
0:27:46 > 0:27:49that happened in Covent Garden clubs and suddenly it was on the back foot.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51The other thing I remember about indie
0:27:51 > 0:27:54was the wonderful home-made artefacts.
0:27:54 > 0:27:58The actually physical sleeves of these records.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01I had stood in for a while and was working briefly on Radio One
0:28:01 > 0:28:04for John Peel and how analogue is this?
0:28:04 > 0:28:06I used to go on a bicycle in 1982 and I would cycle
0:28:06 > 0:28:09down to Rough Trade records in Notting Hill.
0:28:09 > 0:28:12I'd buy records because half these people didn't have distributors.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14There wasn't a plugger giving you stuff for free
0:28:14 > 0:28:17and I would cycle back and play, you know,
0:28:17 > 0:28:19Helen And The Horns or somebody on some little thing.
0:28:19 > 0:28:22And somebody had sat in a kitchen in Petersfield
0:28:22 > 0:28:24and they had hand coloured this sleeve
0:28:24 > 0:28:26and I would go on the Peel show,
0:28:26 > 0:28:31which had a 2.2 million audience in stereo across northern Europe,
0:28:31 > 0:28:34and play these records, which by definition,
0:28:34 > 0:28:38because they were indie, were actually riotously and proudly mono.
0:28:38 > 0:28:40And I love that idea.
0:28:40 > 0:28:44I remember thinking it was very wilful and very right
0:28:44 > 0:28:47that these regional...all over from Scotland and Northern Ireland,
0:28:47 > 0:28:50everywhere, would say to the record industry,
0:28:50 > 0:28:52"We're not coming to you. You are coming to us."
0:28:52 > 0:28:54- There was a definite feeling of that.- Very much so.
0:28:54 > 0:28:59So, in recalling the '80s it's heavy on style, light on substance.
0:28:59 > 0:29:03In spite of its fascination with the new, it was actually quite retro.
0:29:03 > 0:29:06Rockabilly, glam, plastic soul souped up heavy metal,
0:29:06 > 0:29:09jangly punk pop. Modish, faddish.
0:29:09 > 0:29:12Where was that one innovation that would lift a whole generation
0:29:12 > 0:29:15into a brave new world?
0:29:15 > 0:29:18Here is a clue - you're watching it now.
0:29:20 > 0:29:25The 1980s, the pop video. The pop video, the 1980s.
0:29:25 > 0:29:28The two phrases really are synonymous.
0:29:29 > 0:29:33In '81, MTV launched with this frankly underwhelming video
0:29:33 > 0:29:36but could they have possibly known
0:29:36 > 0:29:39how soon its prophecy was going to be fulfilled?
0:29:39 > 0:29:42# Video killed the radio star
0:29:42 > 0:29:44# Video killed... #
0:29:44 > 0:29:48This new phenomenon soon had rock fans chanting, "I want my MTV!"
0:29:48 > 0:29:50Sort of.
0:29:50 > 0:29:52Initially American artists lagged behind us
0:29:52 > 0:29:54in choreography and face painting
0:29:54 > 0:29:59and so it fell to the visually savvy Brits to lead the charge.
0:29:59 > 0:30:02The generation of largely synthesiser-driven acts
0:30:02 > 0:30:06who'd enjoyed success in the UK in the early '80s...
0:30:06 > 0:30:10# Gold! Always believe in your soul... #
0:30:10 > 0:30:13..were suddenly catapulted into millions of American homes,
0:30:13 > 0:30:15making international stars
0:30:15 > 0:30:18of an unlikely roster of overdressed limeys.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21Almost two decades on from the first British invasion,
0:30:21 > 0:30:25Uncle Sam was falling for our pop kids all over again.
0:30:27 > 0:30:31Rock's old guard soon unhappily tried to muscle in on the new act.
0:30:31 > 0:30:35# I wanna take you to Bermuda, Bahama Come on, pretty mamma... #
0:30:35 > 0:30:38Yeah, this sort of works.
0:30:38 > 0:30:40But things went spectacularly wrong
0:30:40 > 0:30:43when the strict Teutonic stylings of the young bucks...
0:30:43 > 0:30:48# And I wonder what I'm doing in a room like this... #
0:30:48 > 0:30:51..were 'alf inched by the try too hard rockers of the old wave.
0:30:51 > 0:30:54# We're all clones
0:30:54 > 0:30:57# All are one and one are all All are one and one are all... #
0:30:57 > 0:30:59Alice, you're a long way from your snake.
0:30:59 > 0:31:04Of course, this proud British ascendancy couldn't last forever.
0:31:07 > 0:31:10Our cousins over the pond soon cottoned on and started turning out
0:31:10 > 0:31:14videos that made ours look cheap, cheerful and underfunded.
0:31:14 > 0:31:17SHE SCREAMS
0:31:17 > 0:31:20But they shouldn't take away that for a brief, shining moment
0:31:20 > 0:31:23a lad from Sheffield with a half cut haircut
0:31:23 > 0:31:27could count himself a genuine US star.
0:31:27 > 0:31:30It's unlikely such a glorious moment for the massed ranks
0:31:30 > 0:31:33of British pop will never come again.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35Corporate control has the last laugh.
0:31:37 > 0:31:41Now come on, Mr Alienation. That's a lot of fun, that looks.
0:31:41 > 0:31:45- Do you recall it suddenly being there, MTV?- Yeah.
0:31:45 > 0:31:51MTV, it took me a while before I saw MTV proper but the music videos,
0:31:51 > 0:31:55obviously, they were the most exciting part of Top Of The Pops.
0:31:55 > 0:31:59The video for Vienna, which was amazing, from Ultravox.
0:31:59 > 0:32:02Do you know Midge Ure, I was talking to him once
0:32:02 > 0:32:04and he said when they made Vienna they wanted to do it themselves
0:32:04 > 0:32:06and they spoke to a director and he said,
0:32:06 > 0:32:09"If you can give me a storyboard I'll see what I can do."
0:32:09 > 0:32:12And he had no idea what that was but in the style of the '80s
0:32:12 > 0:32:14he said, "Storyboard, yeah, I'll get you a storyboard."
0:32:14 > 0:32:17And he went to Ryman's and asked for one!
0:32:17 > 0:32:19He really did! He said, "Have you got a storyboard?"
0:32:19 > 0:32:21And he told it years ago.
0:32:21 > 0:32:24He said...honestly, I know it sounds like a lie
0:32:24 > 0:32:26but he just went and asked for it.
0:32:26 > 0:32:29- And that was on, it seemed like, for months.- Yeah.
0:32:29 > 0:32:33- I would be sat in front. - HE IMPERSONATES INTRO
0:32:33 > 0:32:35THEY LAUGH Very good.
0:32:35 > 0:32:38I remember there was a guy who came round to my house and said,
0:32:38 > 0:32:42"Your air drumming is amazingly precise!"
0:32:42 > 0:32:45- I felt very proud. - "I put the hours in!"
0:32:45 > 0:32:46THEY LAUGH
0:32:46 > 0:32:52All those images were mind-blowing to me and then, of course,
0:32:52 > 0:32:55the big innovation, as far as I was concerned,
0:32:55 > 0:32:57was the video for Sledgehammer
0:32:57 > 0:33:01from Aardman Studios, Stephen Johnson, I think, directed that one.
0:33:01 > 0:33:03I had never seen anything...
0:33:03 > 0:33:05Because, you know, they were so exciting because
0:33:05 > 0:33:08you couldn't predict when they were going to be on.
0:33:08 > 0:33:11They would just sort of pop-up, pre-VCR.
0:33:11 > 0:33:15It was new to see something with a band...and a lot clung to it.
0:33:15 > 0:33:18They clung to their instruments and they would just play it to camera.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21Were you comfortable with video or will your first allegiance
0:33:21 > 0:33:24- always be the live performance? - Video was strange for us.
0:33:24 > 0:33:26I think the first video that we did
0:33:26 > 0:33:31had a white background as I recall, and lots of other bits and bobs
0:33:31 > 0:33:33but I didn't feel comfortable with it.
0:33:33 > 0:33:37The one thing, from what we've just seen,
0:33:37 > 0:33:40that I take is that Video Killed The Radio Star.
0:33:41 > 0:33:46We were actually on Top Of The Pops with On My Radio when that came out.
0:33:46 > 0:33:49And they were right at the end so we'd done our thing
0:33:49 > 0:33:53and were thinking, "On My Radio, this is great. Follow that!"
0:33:53 > 0:33:56And they did, with that! I mean, they just killed it.
0:33:56 > 0:33:58Man! That is an unfortunate billing.
0:33:58 > 0:34:01But it was so prophetic, that particular one.
0:34:01 > 0:34:04- Because that's exactly what happened.- Absolutely.
0:34:04 > 0:34:07I played a record on the radio once by a group called
0:34:07 > 0:34:10Better Than Ezra, an American band, a great single.
0:34:10 > 0:34:13The next week I received a letter from a Welsh band called Ezra
0:34:13 > 0:34:16saying, "Could you ask this band to stop calling themselves that!"
0:34:16 > 0:34:18"My learned friends were in touch."
0:34:18 > 0:34:21The thing that really struck me about video was
0:34:21 > 0:34:25I felt there was an invisible line drawn in about 1979, 1980,
0:34:25 > 0:34:28between the pre-video boom groups and post-video.
0:34:28 > 0:34:31Pre-video it was Elvis Costello And The Attractions,
0:34:31 > 0:34:34it was The Clash, it was The Jam, it was The Police, The Stranglers.
0:34:34 > 0:34:36Those guys got up in the morning
0:34:36 > 0:34:39and they went to work like their forefathers had done in the '70s.
0:34:39 > 0:34:42They picked up their guitar case and expected to go on stage every night
0:34:42 > 0:34:44and convert a load of people.
0:34:44 > 0:34:48And after that it was your pals Depeche Mode and U2 and whatever...
0:34:48 > 0:34:50Culture Club.
0:34:50 > 0:34:53These were people who could reach, via the new network of television,
0:34:53 > 0:34:57in three minutes on a video - that often they didn't even appear on, actually -
0:34:57 > 0:34:59they could reach more people than those live groups,
0:34:59 > 0:35:04groups like yours, had played to or could play to in an entire lifetime.
0:35:04 > 0:35:07And that created an extraordinary tension between the two camps
0:35:07 > 0:35:09and which, for a musician it would be difficult,
0:35:09 > 0:35:12for someone who was observing it like me, it was really interesting.
0:35:12 > 0:35:17The other thing I remember is I interviewed Michael Jackson in 1982.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19- In fact, you interviewed him, I remember, at the NME.- Yeah.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22And what a fascinating and strange and canny person.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25Michael Jackson, I thought of his album Thriller,
0:35:25 > 0:35:28which I had an advance cassette of, I thought it was a series of tracks
0:35:28 > 0:35:31but he talked about it in a completely visual way.
0:35:31 > 0:35:36He talked about it solely as if it was a series of soundtracks to miniature movies.
0:35:36 > 0:35:39And his great pal at the time, his phone friend, as he called him,
0:35:39 > 0:35:41was Adam Ant, who was a huge deal.
0:35:41 > 0:35:44In some ways they were very, very similar.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47And big children of the video boom, in fact.
0:35:47 > 0:35:50And I asked him what he talked to Adam Ant about and he said
0:35:50 > 0:35:54he talked about clothes, dance moves, dressing up, make-up, videos.
0:35:54 > 0:36:00The whole thing he saw as a visual experience and that really struck me.
0:36:00 > 0:36:02I will always remember Not The Nine O'clock News
0:36:02 > 0:36:05did an amazing spoof, Nice Video, Shame About The Song.
0:36:05 > 0:36:07Nice Video, Shame About The Song. Brilliant.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09It kind of encapsulated the whole thing.
0:36:09 > 0:36:11You can still find it on YouTube, I think.
0:36:11 > 0:36:15But you could invent different lives as well, like the Vienna thing,
0:36:15 > 0:36:18the pomposity and the wonder of standing around in an old raincoat
0:36:18 > 0:36:21in Vienna and being all windswept
0:36:21 > 0:36:24and stuff like this, or being on a boat. A yacht.
0:36:24 > 0:36:27- Then it got all sort of aspirational.- Duran Duran.
0:36:27 > 0:36:30And that was it, the aspirational thing, what to do with my money?
0:36:30 > 0:36:33Reflecting the world, what is now an archaic term, but the yuppie thing.
0:36:33 > 0:36:36Suddenly rock, which always prided itself on its integrity
0:36:36 > 0:36:39and honesty, falsely so, most of the time,
0:36:39 > 0:36:43suddenly found itself in a brave new Tory world, one way or another.
0:36:43 > 0:36:45And I think that sort of video did reflect that.
0:36:45 > 0:36:49The possibilities of the video promised to make pop stars of us all.
0:36:49 > 0:36:52Many embraced that while others felt less comfortable
0:36:52 > 0:36:54getting their money for nothing and there kicks for free.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57Nagged by the thought they were wasting their platform,
0:36:57 > 0:37:00these rebels were not long without a cause.
0:37:02 > 0:37:04To hear some tell the story,
0:37:04 > 0:37:08gullible pups might be forgiven for thinking the '80s
0:37:08 > 0:37:11were a nonstop jamboree of stock-market windfalls,
0:37:11 > 0:37:16royal nuptials and sun-kissed yachting videos, but in reality,
0:37:16 > 0:37:19it was a decade of deep division in Britain
0:37:19 > 0:37:23and the rocking fraternity went big on social conscience.
0:37:25 > 0:37:27The '80s in rock was a time
0:37:27 > 0:37:31when there was a great importance on being earnest.
0:37:33 > 0:37:37A time when music wasn't afraid of grooving to big-ish ideas.
0:37:37 > 0:37:39# A town called malice... #
0:37:41 > 0:37:44Trumpeting your stance and slogan out loud.
0:37:44 > 0:37:49# Free Nelson Mandela... #
0:37:51 > 0:37:55Indeed, this might well be rock's most right on, or left on, decade,
0:37:55 > 0:37:58when Billy Bragg's Red Wedge movement
0:37:58 > 0:38:02united bands against Thatcherism while others embraced Maggie.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05And such was the force of feeling at the time,
0:38:05 > 0:38:09some maintained their position might even have dented their chances in the charts.
0:38:09 > 0:38:12# And them rough boys
0:38:12 > 0:38:14# They turn on me. #
0:38:14 > 0:38:17As skinhead style movements like Oi! took hold,
0:38:17 > 0:38:21bands and fans found themselves polarised at different ends
0:38:21 > 0:38:26of the political spectrum, causing no small amount of schism, angst even.
0:38:28 > 0:38:30At the outbreak of the Falklands War,
0:38:30 > 0:38:34the nation's politicised rockers were determined to prove
0:38:34 > 0:38:37that there really is such a thing as a listenable protest song.
0:38:37 > 0:38:40# That people get killed in
0:38:40 > 0:38:44# The result of the ship building. #
0:38:44 > 0:38:49This truly was an age when even the most glamorous of popstars
0:38:49 > 0:38:53were moved to offer trenchant social criticism.
0:38:53 > 0:38:54# War war is stupid
0:38:54 > 0:38:57# And people are stupid. #
0:38:57 > 0:39:00But this earnest spirit wasn't just reserved to party politics.
0:39:00 > 0:39:04The very issues of rock itself would be endlessly debated
0:39:04 > 0:39:07in the music press and by fans.
0:39:07 > 0:39:10Were you a rockist or a popist?
0:39:10 > 0:39:13Best choose a side. Everything depends on it.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15# Keep going and stop me now
0:39:15 > 0:39:17# Cake. #
0:39:17 > 0:39:21It's gone now, the idea of social commentary through pop music,
0:39:21 > 0:39:24rock music, whatever way you want to put it.
0:39:24 > 0:39:27Some might even say it was an intentional pogrom to get it out
0:39:27 > 0:39:29so there was no youth movement any more.
0:39:29 > 0:39:32Is that fair to say, it's gone, and do you lament that if it has?
0:39:32 > 0:39:35I don't believe it's ever gone.
0:39:35 > 0:39:38It's just that it's happening somewhere else and not within the genre.
0:39:38 > 0:39:40But not overground and in the charts as mass?
0:39:40 > 0:39:44Not overground and in the charts. That's very rare indeed.
0:39:44 > 0:39:49In a way, I think that is a real shame myself.
0:39:49 > 0:39:52But I think things are cyclic and I think it will come around again.
0:39:52 > 0:39:56You've got to remember that all the kids, well, not kids,
0:39:56 > 0:39:59but people who are around now who have maybe got the money
0:39:59 > 0:40:02to make music and all those kinds of things,
0:40:02 > 0:40:05their parents grew up during the '80s.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08They grew up during all of those Thatcher years and then beyond.
0:40:08 > 0:40:12Then we got Blair and that wasn't much different either, was it?
0:40:12 > 0:40:15So you can kind of understand why that has happened.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18Do you still work politically
0:40:18 > 0:40:20and did you always think you were political?
0:40:20 > 0:40:23We were kids of the '60s so we had grown up
0:40:23 > 0:40:27during all those great times when students went to college.
0:40:27 > 0:40:29You didn't do any studying at all.
0:40:29 > 0:40:32You were just having sit-ins and all that kind of thing all the time.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35And the civil rights movement.
0:40:35 > 0:40:36There were huge, great,
0:40:36 > 0:40:41big swathes of political action in America and in Europe.
0:40:41 > 0:40:45And then suddenly we had Thatcherism and it was the '80s
0:40:45 > 0:40:48and nobody really thought about those things.
0:40:48 > 0:40:52That greed is good and suddenly that was the ethos.
0:40:52 > 0:40:56Who wanted you around with your sort of political ideas?
0:40:56 > 0:40:59But, yes, when all that Red Wedge nonsense was going on and stuff like that,
0:40:59 > 0:41:02I thought who wants to be part of the Labour Party?
0:41:02 > 0:41:04Who wants to give Kinnock a chance?
0:41:04 > 0:41:06All power to them that they tried,
0:41:06 > 0:41:08but I really didn't want to go to Number 10 Downing Street.
0:41:08 > 0:41:10It fell dreadfully flat.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13Adam, do you think it had any business in pop?
0:41:13 > 0:41:17Was it cynical itself when people aligned themselves to a big old cause?
0:41:17 > 0:41:19Did that interest you at all?
0:41:19 > 0:41:23At the time, I didn't know where to start with it
0:41:23 > 0:41:28because I was about 13 and a sort of comfortable,
0:41:28 > 0:41:31privileged, little middle-class boy.
0:41:31 > 0:41:33You didn't wear a Lenin badge though?
0:41:33 > 0:41:36No and one of my best pals at the time fancied himself
0:41:36 > 0:41:39as a kind of class war guy,
0:41:39 > 0:41:42even though he was at the same posh school as me.
0:41:42 > 0:41:44It's an old story!
0:41:44 > 0:41:48But he loved Billy Bragg and everything
0:41:48 > 0:41:51and would pore over all the lyrics.
0:41:51 > 0:41:56I think it was partly self-hatred and just thinking,
0:41:56 > 0:41:59"Shit, why was I born into this nightmare of privilege,
0:41:59 > 0:42:03"when I should be out there with my brothers on the front line?"
0:42:03 > 0:42:07And I think it was difficult also because a lot of that music
0:42:07 > 0:42:10was very stripped down, Billy Bragg, for example.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13So it was quite grown-up sounding music.
0:42:13 > 0:42:17I've come to it later in life and understood it and enjoyed it but at the time...
0:42:17 > 0:42:20But do you feel that is a duty because it can be a drag?
0:42:20 > 0:42:23You don't have to get your politics through pop.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26It came as part and parcel of it.
0:42:26 > 0:42:29No, because the thing you understand later on, or the thing
0:42:29 > 0:42:33I understood later on was the passion in it
0:42:33 > 0:42:39was exciting in itself and the fact that it was agitating for an important change or whatever
0:42:39 > 0:42:44and I could hear that though in other types of political music like
0:42:44 > 0:42:48Bronski Beat that was talking about gay rights and stuff like that.
0:42:48 > 0:42:52I responded more to that because that made more sense to me.
0:42:52 > 0:42:55- It was more like personal politics. - Sure.
0:42:55 > 0:42:58And Smash Hits, of course, may be seen as the vacuous
0:42:58 > 0:43:02vanguard of, let's not look too deeply at all of this,
0:43:02 > 0:43:06even though it was sly and in other ways just as a subversive.
0:43:06 > 0:43:09Do you think in the end it's down to the music and the tunes
0:43:09 > 0:43:14and for every "Free Nelson Mandela" there is a big old crass album,
0:43:14 > 0:43:16which isn't easy on the ear?
0:43:16 > 0:43:18To some extent. Funnily enough, I remember Elvis Costello
0:43:18 > 0:43:22coming into the office of Smash Hits with a copy of "Shipbuilding".
0:43:22 > 0:43:24He was so proud of the lyric and felt so strong about it.
0:43:24 > 0:43:27He wanted us to write about it, which we did.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30But the thing that struck me was the '80s, again very
0:43:30 > 0:43:35maligned for being ego obsessed, self-interested, superficial.
0:43:35 > 0:43:39I think a lot of that political movement was to do with
0:43:39 > 0:43:42the enormous commercial success that was going on.
0:43:42 > 0:43:46Records sold in enormous quantities. Vast commercial momentum.
0:43:46 > 0:43:49There was room for everybody.
0:43:49 > 0:43:51Everybody believed that everything was possible
0:43:51 > 0:43:56and therefore that allowed them to believe that from their enormously powerful platform,
0:43:56 > 0:44:01selling a lot of records to a lot of people, that music was an agent for change.
0:44:01 > 0:44:06Now, we don't need Culture Club telling you that war is stupid and people are stupid, but...
0:44:06 > 0:44:09It stopped a lot of wars! To be fair. Five wars.
0:44:09 > 0:44:12I don't know. Maybe even more!
0:44:12 > 0:44:15I can't take that away from them.
0:44:15 > 0:44:18But I still felt that was wonderful that people were engaged.
0:44:18 > 0:44:23What actually happened in the 1990s I think was that rap and hip-hop to
0:44:23 > 0:44:27some extent became the platform for folk protest and now, I don't know.
0:44:27 > 0:44:31While most of the planet saw Live Aid as a magnificent
0:44:31 > 0:44:34melding of music's higher ideals and social conscience,
0:44:34 > 0:44:37one or two others saw something else.
0:44:37 > 0:44:40Huge stadiums full of paying customers.
0:44:40 > 0:44:44Gigs would become shows, extravaganzas, events.
0:44:44 > 0:44:48A once underground culture began to transform into an unstoppable
0:44:48 > 0:44:51production, a true industry, a boom.
0:44:54 > 0:44:58# One, two, one, two, three, four. #
0:44:58 > 0:45:04Truly, this was the dawn of unashamed inflated bombast.
0:45:04 > 0:45:07The successful rockers of the baby-boom generation had now
0:45:07 > 0:45:10begun the gentle slide towards middle-age and as they did,
0:45:10 > 0:45:15they succumbed to the lure of the high-profile megawatt arena gig.
0:45:15 > 0:45:17# Around the world. #
0:45:17 > 0:45:21This was a decade in which rock became a little more grown-up,
0:45:21 > 0:45:22but not in a good way.
0:45:22 > 0:45:26Even the recently infallible made some serious missteps.
0:45:26 > 0:45:28# Dancing in the street. #
0:45:28 > 0:45:31David. David. Don't, David.
0:45:31 > 0:45:34As the decade wore on,
0:45:34 > 0:45:38a generation of newly minted adult orientated rockers were
0:45:38 > 0:45:42joining the big guns in grooving amidst global aircraft hangars
0:45:42 > 0:45:45requesting millions keep their lighters firmly aloft.
0:45:45 > 0:45:49# Don't you forget about me. #
0:45:49 > 0:45:55Steadily, through the '80s, venues, PAs and events had been growing,
0:45:55 > 0:45:58swelling in size to match the egos they served.
0:45:58 > 0:46:03And then, in 1985, Live Aid.
0:46:03 > 0:46:04Albeit for a higher cause,
0:46:04 > 0:46:08this was the pinnacle of rock as a global event.
0:46:09 > 0:46:13Though some may question whether the music itself was really much cop.
0:46:14 > 0:46:18As the gigs went big, so album sales went even bigger.
0:46:18 > 0:46:20# I want to run
0:46:20 > 0:46:22# I want to hide. #
0:46:22 > 0:46:26U2's The Joshua Tree with its understated Anton Corbijn cover
0:46:26 > 0:46:31established the band globally in a distinctly overstated style.
0:46:31 > 0:46:33While Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms album
0:46:33 > 0:46:37shifted more than 30 million copies worldwide,
0:46:37 > 0:46:40many of them in the miraculous new CD format.
0:46:40 > 0:46:44Tragically, it also heralded the forerunner of the rock bandanna,
0:46:44 > 0:46:46the tennis headband.
0:46:46 > 0:46:49# Play the guitar on the MTV. #
0:46:49 > 0:46:51The '80s stadium rock boom gave us
0:46:51 > 0:46:56global stars adored by millions but also ushered in a corporate
0:46:56 > 0:47:00concert model which paved the way for today's festival experience.
0:47:00 > 0:47:03In just a couple of decades, rock had gone from being
0:47:03 > 0:47:06an underground scene to an overgrown phenomenon.
0:47:07 > 0:47:10Unavoidable, enormous, everywhere.
0:47:14 > 0:47:17Mark, of course, you were one of the faces of Live Aid
0:47:17 > 0:47:20and therefore entirely responsible for it!
0:47:20 > 0:47:22My fault, entirely, as a presenter!
0:47:22 > 0:47:25Away from of course, it seems even wrong to say it,
0:47:25 > 0:47:28but away from what Live Aid was basically about,
0:47:28 > 0:47:31do you think it spawned what we now have?
0:47:31 > 0:47:33This heritage thing, this extravaganza.
0:47:33 > 0:47:38Rock as a show rather than an experience or gig?
0:47:38 > 0:47:42Yes. I think it was incredibly influential for a number of reasons.
0:47:42 > 0:47:44It was the coincidence actually of Live Aid
0:47:44 > 0:47:46and also the invention of the compact disc.
0:47:46 > 0:47:50The compact disc made a lot of people who maybe had slightly given up on music in their early 30s,
0:47:50 > 0:47:53go back and re-buy the records they bought on vinyl
0:47:53 > 0:47:58and listened to them again and became interested in their old heroes and what had happened to those people.
0:47:58 > 0:48:00And on the day, 13 July 1985,
0:48:00 > 0:48:03a lot of people watching at home with their hot dogs in the garden
0:48:03 > 0:48:06and the telly on, they thought firstly that the old guard,
0:48:06 > 0:48:10who let's be honest were knackered old pensionable gits of 40!
0:48:10 > 0:48:14They were 40! Paul McCartney, The Who, Neil Young, Queen.
0:48:14 > 0:48:17They had forgotten about these people.
0:48:17 > 0:48:22They saw them on the television and I think they thought they'd given a really good account of themselves.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25And I think the new guard, the Style Councils and Sade
0:48:25 > 0:48:28and people like that who were on early on in the bill,
0:48:28 > 0:48:31you got the illusion watching Live Aid on the television
0:48:31 > 0:48:34and seeing them playing to 80,000 people going absolutely mental,
0:48:34 > 0:48:36you got the illusion they were much bigger
0:48:36 > 0:48:40and more significant than they were, which really helped their careers.
0:48:40 > 0:48:44And lastly, I think people looked at that stadium itself with the blue sky above it
0:48:44 > 0:48:47and this extraordinary day and a very supercharged event
0:48:47 > 0:48:50and they thought, actually, those stadiums look like quite a lot of fun.
0:48:50 > 0:48:55And I think it was enormously influential in returning a load of people...
0:48:55 > 0:48:59I mean, we now know you can stay interested in music all your life,
0:48:59 > 0:49:03but weirdly in the 1980s, people thought maybe this won't last forever.
0:49:03 > 0:49:05And now we know it does.
0:49:05 > 0:49:08People who thought they had given up went back to live music
0:49:08 > 0:49:12and were prepared to drive a car to Wembley Stadium and see who was playing there.
0:49:12 > 0:49:15What did that do to a musician? What did you think?
0:49:15 > 0:49:17As somebody whose life's blood was in the clubs
0:49:17 > 0:49:22and seeing people's eyes and all of a sudden it was enormous.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25Did the explosion of pop culture becoming THE culture,
0:49:25 > 0:49:27did it have an effect on a working musician?
0:49:27 > 0:49:31Do you remember thinking this has gone somewhere else now?
0:49:31 > 0:49:35Well, I like to see the whites of people's eyes myself when you are playing.
0:49:35 > 0:49:39It kind of gets lost when this noise, this sound,
0:49:39 > 0:49:45this huge kind of... I come back again to the word pompous.
0:49:45 > 0:49:48It really became pompous at that time because you got to get
0:49:48 > 0:49:50to so many tens of thousands of people.
0:49:50 > 0:49:53Definitely Live Aid, I thought things had gone somewhere else.
0:49:53 > 0:49:58It was that marrying of the use of celebrity and charity
0:49:58 > 0:50:02and charity as a business.
0:50:02 > 0:50:05It was like nobody actually ever sat down and said,
0:50:05 > 0:50:07"Why are these people starving?"
0:50:07 > 0:50:12And it's a little bit like saying, yes, we've got a conscience,
0:50:12 > 0:50:14yes, there are people starving,
0:50:14 > 0:50:17and as long as I give a bit of money every now
0:50:17 > 0:50:19and again I can salve my conscience
0:50:19 > 0:50:22because there is no way out of this, there is no politics
0:50:22 > 0:50:25that is actually trying to fight this at the time.
0:50:25 > 0:50:28It seemed like people looked at Live Aid and thought this is good,
0:50:28 > 0:50:32if it wasn't for that damn politics involved in it and that is what it became.
0:50:32 > 0:50:34What is your take on this, Adam?
0:50:34 > 0:50:37For me, the practical consequence was the first Bowie gig that
0:50:37 > 0:50:41- I ever went to, sorry to crack on about Bowie again...- No, please do.
0:50:41 > 0:50:45..was the Glass Spider Tour...
0:50:45 > 0:50:50- IMPERSONATES DAVID BOWIE: - ..where he erected the giant glass spider in Wembley Stadium.
0:50:50 > 0:50:54- I've told you, stop doing the act! - He can't help it.
0:50:54 > 0:50:59And there was a whole choreographed thing with dancers in rags
0:50:59 > 0:51:01jumping around on bits of scaffolding.
0:51:01 > 0:51:05- IMPERSONATES DAVID BOWIE:- We're the future. No, we're the future.
0:51:05 > 0:51:07LAUGHTER
0:51:07 > 0:51:10It was very bad. I mean, it was indefensibly bad.
0:51:10 > 0:51:14I have got soft spots for all parts of Bowie's career,
0:51:14 > 0:51:16but that one was pretty indefensible.
0:51:16 > 0:51:20I wouldn't mind so much if it was this great party atmosphere,
0:51:20 > 0:51:25but you are stood amongst dicks and they are just stood there
0:51:25 > 0:51:29getting lagered-up and having chats.
0:51:29 > 0:51:33So you are just in the middle of a big crowd of dicks
0:51:33 > 0:51:37watching a guy with a bad haircut a long way away,
0:51:37 > 0:51:41sort of doing bad versions of songs that you really used to like.
0:51:41 > 0:51:46Despite that, it was exciting. There's Carlos Alomar! Wow! There's Carlos Alomar!
0:51:46 > 0:51:49Why is he no good? Peter Frampton! There's Peter Frampton!
0:51:49 > 0:51:53I don't care about Peter Frampton.
0:51:53 > 0:51:56You should have been backstage, it was right bitchy back there!
0:51:56 > 0:51:57LAUGHTER
0:51:57 > 0:52:00All right, we seem to have hammered the political
0:52:00 > 0:52:03aspects of the 1980s into the ground so let's have some fun
0:52:03 > 0:52:06and see where we take the mere flights of fancy and opinion
0:52:06 > 0:52:08and turn them into hard physical facts.
0:52:08 > 0:52:12We've asked everybody here to bring both an album
0:52:12 > 0:52:15and a piece of memorabilia from the 1980s to put into our
0:52:15 > 0:52:17flight case to the future,
0:52:17 > 0:52:20so generations may know we weren't just pulling this out of the air.
0:52:20 > 0:52:24It did really happen. I'll start with you, Adam. What album have you brought?
0:52:24 > 0:52:28I've got Swoon the first album by Prefab Sprout.
0:52:28 > 0:52:34Actually, this is something that my comedy wife Joe Cornish got me into.
0:52:34 > 0:52:38I can't say enough good stuff about this.
0:52:38 > 0:52:42Paddy McAloon refers to it as Sprout Mask Replica
0:52:42 > 0:52:48because I think it's an incredibly odd and ambitious album.
0:52:48 > 0:52:50Uncategorisable in many ways.
0:52:50 > 0:52:56Strange time signatures and almost avant-garde bits of harmony and stuff in there.
0:52:56 > 0:52:58It's a magnificent piece and for every bit of frivolity
0:52:58 > 0:53:01and surface we've brought to the '80s here, there was
0:53:01 > 0:53:05always somebody like Paddy McAloon saying there is still some great musicians out there.
0:53:05 > 0:53:08So there is your album. What is your memorabilia?
0:53:08 > 0:53:09It is similarly themed.
0:53:09 > 0:53:14- It is my ticket to Prefab Sprout, the first gig I ever went to.- Is it?
0:53:14 > 0:53:17Yes, for the Steve McQueen Two Wheels Good tour
0:53:17 > 0:53:21and in my insane, nutty diary, I've written in tiny writing
0:53:21 > 0:53:25and I've got a review of the gig on the back of the ticket.
0:53:25 > 0:53:29A little sketch of the Hammersmith Palais. It was a good gig.
0:53:29 > 0:53:33I didn't like this support band.
0:53:33 > 0:53:36"Hurrah came on at 8.15pm. They were bollocks."
0:53:36 > 0:53:38LAUGHTER
0:53:38 > 0:53:40Honestly, that is plenty there.
0:53:40 > 0:53:42And by the way, you do realise in high-definition,
0:53:42 > 0:53:45people are now reading your diary on a freeze frame!
0:53:45 > 0:53:47Beautifully done. Pauline, what have you brought?
0:53:47 > 0:53:51I've brought Bow Wow Wow, mainly because...
0:53:51 > 0:53:55Not because I think the album is so brilliant musically or whatever,
0:53:55 > 0:53:57although I do like it,
0:53:57 > 0:54:02but just for the joie de vivre that Annabella brought to it.
0:54:02 > 0:54:07Considering she was 14 or 15 at the time, I'm all for bigging up
0:54:07 > 0:54:11females in music and particularly one with their own style.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14She completely, even at that age, brought her own style to it.
0:54:14 > 0:54:16How about your memorabilia?
0:54:16 > 0:54:20Memorabilia is a bit of a rare photo, really.
0:54:20 > 0:54:25There weren't that many women, as we saw within the VT clips for the '80s.
0:54:25 > 0:54:30Here we've got Chrissie Hynde, Debbie Harry,
0:54:30 > 0:54:32Viv Albertine, Siouxsie Sioux,
0:54:32 > 0:54:35the late and the great Poly Styrene and yours truly.
0:54:35 > 0:54:39All got together and you've got something to do with that
0:54:39 > 0:54:42haven't you, I know, for getting us all together.
0:54:42 > 0:54:45That is a magnificent photograph and you showed me before the show,
0:54:45 > 0:54:48you showed me that and I was stunned I'd never seen it before.
0:54:48 > 0:54:51I'd never seen it. I was on the magazine that commissioned that picture,
0:54:51 > 0:54:54New Music News, which was an underground rock magazine.
0:54:54 > 0:54:55We wanted to get these fantastic girl singers together
0:54:55 > 0:54:58and the reason you haven't seen it is because the magazine sold
0:54:58 > 0:54:59so few copies!
0:55:01 > 0:55:03The overused word, "iconic", really is such a massive...
0:55:03 > 0:55:06- What have you brought? - Actually, at the same time,
0:55:06 > 0:55:08when I was at New Music News, the, kind of, house band -
0:55:08 > 0:55:11three of the girls in the office went out with members of Doll By Doll.
0:55:11 > 0:55:14They were just - I love them, cos they were born at the wrong time.
0:55:14 > 0:55:17The timing was so wrong - this was very intense psychedelic rock music
0:55:17 > 0:55:21led by a guy called Jackie Leven, who had a soaring, operatic voice.
0:55:21 > 0:55:23They were just destroyed by the synthesiser boom.
0:55:23 > 0:55:27I found, inside it, the original press release, which is brilliant.
0:55:27 > 0:55:30It says, "The album includes talents as diverse as David Gilmour" -
0:55:30 > 0:55:34spelt wrong - "of Pink Floyd and Mel Collins of Camel,
0:55:34 > 0:55:36"the thinking man's sax player."
0:55:36 > 0:55:40So, you know, so John Coltrane was a superficial twerp.
0:55:40 > 0:55:42So good work there from Richard Robson Associates.
0:55:42 > 0:55:44What's your memorabilia?
0:55:44 > 0:55:50My memorabilia is the original presenter's running order of Live Aid,
0:55:50 > 0:55:55and on the 11th July, 1985 - two days before the actual event -
0:55:55 > 0:55:57we were given the original running order.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59I found it in the attic the other day. It's fantastic.
0:55:59 > 0:56:03- I'll bet.- "At 12 o'clock, opening ceremony, fanfare, royal salute,
0:56:03 > 0:56:05"national anthem and speech by HRH Prince of Wales."
0:56:05 > 0:56:07That didn't happen.
0:56:07 > 0:56:09At... He arrived late.
0:56:09 > 0:56:1411...13...13:11, we get "Richard Skinner links to Trent Bridge
0:56:14 > 0:56:16"for an interview with Bob Willis and Ian Botham."
0:56:16 > 0:56:19- No!- Didn't happen.- Didn't happen. - The line went down.
0:56:19 > 0:56:21Amazingly, the line went down for that,
0:56:21 > 0:56:24but we managed to link into Yugoslavia,
0:56:24 > 0:56:27a country called Yugoslavia, and a country called Soviet Union.
0:56:27 > 0:56:29My favourite bit is at 21:14,
0:56:29 > 0:56:32"David Hepworth, intro to Cat Stevens."
0:56:32 > 0:56:34For five minutes, Cat Stevens is meant to be on stage,
0:56:34 > 0:56:37followed, bizarrely, "by Madonna OR Rod Stewart."
0:56:37 > 0:56:39LAUGHTER
0:56:39 > 0:56:43The point I'm making is, you know, how chaotic that event was.
0:56:43 > 0:56:45Two days beforehand...
0:56:45 > 0:56:47To be fair, Mark, you had us at "running order for Live Aid."
0:56:47 > 0:56:49That's beautiful, great thing.
0:56:49 > 0:56:50Well, I didn't...
0:56:50 > 0:56:54I felt pretty disconnected from a lot that happened in the '80s,
0:56:54 > 0:56:58and the groups I saw through it were going before that.
0:56:58 > 0:57:01And nothing sums up what happened to old rock music in the '80s
0:57:01 > 0:57:04like this peculiar album by a group called Crimson Glory.
0:57:04 > 0:57:07I bought it for the cover alone, but I realise it's now
0:57:07 > 0:57:11a harbinger for how some people couldn't fit in the 1980s
0:57:11 > 0:57:14because these brand-new, thrusting...you know,
0:57:14 > 0:57:19"Big-Legged Woman With My Dinner Ready When I Get Home From Mars" heavy metal band,
0:57:19 > 0:57:21and they chose to look like that.
0:57:21 > 0:57:23If you have a look...
0:57:23 > 0:57:25This is how they embraced the New Age.
0:57:25 > 0:57:28And this - I'll be as quick as I can about this -
0:57:28 > 0:57:31is a thing from one of my old shows that I did
0:57:31 > 0:57:34when I got to meet Elvis Costello, after many, many years.
0:57:34 > 0:57:36In the meantime, my wife and I had got together
0:57:36 > 0:57:39over Good Year For The Roses, his single, and that line -
0:57:39 > 0:57:41we were married to other people at the time,
0:57:41 > 0:57:42I was in the NME Review Room - it said,
0:57:42 > 0:57:44"After three long years of marriage,
0:57:44 > 0:57:47"this is the first time that you haven't made the bed,
0:57:47 > 0:57:48"The reason we're not talking
0:57:48 > 0:57:50"is they're so little left to say that ain't been said."
0:57:50 > 0:57:54And she looked at me and went, "Oh, that's a leaf out of my diary."
0:57:54 > 0:57:55And I said, "Me, too."
0:57:55 > 0:57:58And we looked at each other and I walked towards her and I held her
0:57:58 > 0:57:59and said, "What are we going to do?"
0:57:59 > 0:58:02That was 33 years ago. We never went home again
0:58:02 > 0:58:04and Elvis put on the back of it, in the 1980s,
0:58:04 > 0:58:07"To Wendy - don't blame me. Elvis Costello."
0:58:07 > 0:58:11I'm sorry to introduce a note of sentiment and, perhaps, emotion
0:58:11 > 0:58:13to this wonderful evening we've spent together.
0:58:13 > 0:58:17I hope people indoors got something of the flavour
0:58:17 > 0:58:20of a perhaps still-not-reinstated age.
0:58:20 > 0:58:24- Thank you, Mark Ellen.- Thank you. - Thank you, Pauline Black.- Thank you.
0:58:24 > 0:58:26Thank you, Adam Buxton.
0:58:26 > 0:58:29I'd just like to say that Hurrah! are probably an excellent band,
0:58:29 > 0:58:30if you give them a chance.
0:58:30 > 0:58:32LAUGHTER
0:58:34 > 0:58:35Well, that's our 1980s -
0:58:35 > 0:58:39rock music being superseded by all that technology.
0:58:39 > 0:58:41"We can't rewind, we've gone too far.
0:58:41 > 0:58:43"Put the blame on VCR."
0:58:43 > 0:58:44That's what the song said.
0:58:44 > 0:58:48The VHS had vanquished vinyl and there was no going back.
0:58:48 > 0:58:49Rock possibly was dead.
0:58:49 > 0:58:53Gigging bands, seemingly a thing of the past.
0:58:53 > 0:58:57However, this past would have a name - the 1990s.
0:58:57 > 0:58:58See you there.
0:58:58 > 0:59:02# Bless my cotton socks I'm in the news
0:59:04 > 0:59:08# The king sits on his face but it's all assumed
0:59:10 > 0:59:13# All wrapped up the same
0:59:13 > 0:59:16# All wrapped up the same
0:59:16 > 0:59:18# They can't have it
0:59:18 > 0:59:19# You can't have it
0:59:19 > 0:59:22# I can't have it too
0:59:22 > 0:59:26# Until I learn to accept my reward. #