0:00:02 > 0:00:05Tonight, our tuneful time machine through the rock decades
0:00:05 > 0:00:07stops to look around the 1990s.
0:00:07 > 0:00:12The 1990s - I know! That was, like, 20 minutes ago, right?
0:00:12 > 0:00:15Well, I'm afraid not, shipmates. Think on this.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18The current all-conquering heroes of the charts
0:00:18 > 0:00:22turning on the youth just like Elvis, The Beatles, and Bowie did
0:00:22 > 0:00:26are One Direction. Every member of One Direction
0:00:26 > 0:00:29sat out part of the rocking '90s because...
0:00:29 > 0:00:31they weren't born.
0:00:31 > 0:00:35Well, sit down, Harry, Niall, Zayn, Liam and Louis.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38Tonight, we'll tell you what you missed.
0:00:38 > 0:00:40This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43MUSIC: "Step On" by Happy Mondays
0:00:55 > 0:00:58# Back with another one of those block rockin' beats. #
0:00:58 > 0:01:02Oh, my, to be young and British and independent in the 1990s,
0:01:02 > 0:01:03when Britpop reigned
0:01:03 > 0:01:07and rock fell under the narcotic spell of dance music,
0:01:07 > 0:01:09when Happy Mondays acted daft,
0:01:09 > 0:01:12when Radiohead light-heartedly shared a joke, when...
0:01:12 > 0:01:14oh, you get the drift.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18Was that how it was, though? A decade of two halves?
0:01:18 > 0:01:22The first spent dancing, the second playing earnest rock?
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Well, I and three other happy-go-lucky hipsters
0:01:25 > 0:01:27intend to dissect the decade
0:01:27 > 0:01:31and stress-test the notion that the '90s might just have been
0:01:31 > 0:01:33the last great decade of British rock.
0:01:33 > 0:01:35To this end, I will be joined
0:01:35 > 0:01:38by the singer of the very Britpopular Sleeper,
0:01:38 > 0:01:41an award-winning toppermost comedian
0:01:41 > 0:01:45and the head rock and pop critic of The Guardian.
0:01:45 > 0:01:49There's Louise Wener, once of Sleeper and now a novelist.
0:01:49 > 0:01:52Music critic Alexis Petridis.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55And comedian and occasional musician, scintillating musician,
0:01:55 > 0:01:57Josie Long.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00Let me test where you people are coming from for a start.
0:02:00 > 0:02:02Louise, where was your local record shop?
0:02:02 > 0:02:05The '90s are about the last time you could possibly have had one.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08I remember buying Nirvana's Nevermind.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11I was at home at my parents' house after uni.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14- And it was in Barkingside in Essex. - Yeah.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17And I went in and I bought Nevermind.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20I remember queuing up for it, went in and the guy behind the counter said,
0:02:20 > 0:02:23"Take this home and play it really loud."
0:02:23 > 0:02:25LAUGHTER
0:02:25 > 0:02:27- "OK."- "I will."
0:02:27 > 0:02:30And was it a chain? Our Price, or one of those?
0:02:30 > 0:02:33I don't think it was a chain. It was a little independent shop.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36- It seems like... - It seems like a lifetime away.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39I played it and I did think it was the most brilliant thing.
0:02:39 > 0:02:43He wasn't wrong. Alexis, your local record shop?
0:02:43 > 0:02:46Would have been initially, the first part of the '90s,
0:02:46 > 0:02:50I still lived at home so it would have been Record House in Amersham,
0:02:50 > 0:02:54- which I assume is long gone.- And a wonderfully groovy dell, was it?
0:02:54 > 0:02:58No, but you could order anything, so it didn't matter what was in stock.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01You could ask for stuff. They had an indie section.
0:03:01 > 0:03:03It was like a local record shop.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06And what were you, were you precocious?
0:03:06 > 0:03:08Did you like stuff you shouldn't have liked?
0:03:08 > 0:03:11- Were you ordering Sonny Rollins records?- Yeah...yeah.
0:03:11 > 0:03:14I don't like to...because you sound like a total dickhead.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17No! That's what we're like and hopefully the audience, too.
0:03:17 > 0:03:22Erm, I came across my music teacher from my secondary school on Twitter
0:03:22 > 0:03:25earlier this year and he verified a story that I've always told.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28I said, "I think you used to teach me music
0:03:28 > 0:03:31"when I was 12 or 13." He was like, "Oh, yeah.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34"You were the one that liked The Velvet Underground."
0:03:34 > 0:03:38- So that was my great claim to awful, precocious...- Well done.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40..arseholery.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43No, that's good, because I'm fed up of people, you know,
0:03:43 > 0:03:45trying to pretend this ain't tremendous fun.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48This is a free zone from all that sort of stuff.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50Josie, where was your local record shop?
0:03:50 > 0:03:54A record shop in Orpington, where I grew up, called Elpees.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57- And it was spelt E-L-P-E-E-S. - Of course it was.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59- I didn't know what that meant. - LAUGHTER
0:03:59 > 0:04:02That's the guy who runs the shop - Mike Elpees.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05It's a light shop now, I know that. It sells lights.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09But it used to have this thing where you could sell unwanted CDs
0:04:09 > 0:04:11and get cash back at the store.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14I remember, all it was in 1995 or '96,
0:04:14 > 0:04:17was a big pile of Kula Shaker albums.
0:04:17 > 0:04:22Like that was the currency you couldn't sell, you couldn't get rid.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26And of course, Kula Shaker was the son of, erm...
0:04:26 > 0:04:29- Hayley Mills.- That's right.
0:04:29 > 0:04:32And that's cheered up all the family, hearing that...
0:04:32 > 0:04:35That's not to do it down. It was a very popular record.
0:04:35 > 0:04:39I think it was one that everyone had a copy or something.
0:04:39 > 0:04:42It shipped gold but was returned platinum.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44So, where to begin our geological dig
0:04:44 > 0:04:47into the heart of rock's dance decade?
0:04:47 > 0:04:49Well, that's a no-brainer, ol' Bez, my boy.
0:04:49 > 0:04:54Let me take you back to a reclaimed toxic waste site in Widnes.
0:04:58 > 0:05:03The 1990s began with, arguably, the gig of the decade.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06The Stone Roses at Spike Island would be championed
0:05:06 > 0:05:08as the Woodstock for the E generation.
0:05:08 > 0:05:12# I am the resurrection
0:05:12 > 0:05:15# And I am the light... #
0:05:15 > 0:05:20They and their 27,000 pals convened at, appropriately enough,
0:05:20 > 0:05:23the birthplace of the British chemical industry.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27Here was the band of the moment from the city of the moment.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33Manchester - previously famous for the Busby Babes,
0:05:33 > 0:05:35Elsie Tanner and The Hollies,
0:05:35 > 0:05:39was seemingly able to produce an endless list of bands.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43# Don't need no skin tights in my wardrobe today... #
0:05:43 > 0:05:46Some baggy, some druggy,
0:05:46 > 0:05:47many great.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51Inspiral Carpets, The Charlatans, The Mock Turtles
0:05:51 > 0:05:55and, of course, the "bit too" Happy Mondays.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58# Don't know what you saw
0:05:58 > 0:06:00# But you know it's against the law
0:06:00 > 0:06:03# And you know that you want some more
0:06:03 > 0:06:05# I've heard it all before... #
0:06:06 > 0:06:10When record contract disputes put The Stone Roses out of action,
0:06:10 > 0:06:12there was a vacuum waiting to be filled
0:06:12 > 0:06:16and a new wave of, let's be frank, shy and indolent bands
0:06:16 > 0:06:19known as shoegazers began to emerge,
0:06:19 > 0:06:23like Chapterhouse, here singing their melancholy classic Pearl,
0:06:23 > 0:06:26which thundered all the way up to number 67 in the charts.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28# ..to know her. #
0:06:28 > 0:06:31Wake up, kids, here comes Nirvana.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34# With the lights out it's less dangerous
0:06:34 > 0:06:37# Here we are now
0:06:37 > 0:06:39# Entertain us
0:06:39 > 0:06:41# I feel stupid
0:06:41 > 0:06:42# And contagious
0:06:42 > 0:06:45# Here we are now
0:06:45 > 0:06:47# Entertain us... #
0:06:49 > 0:06:53The success of ABBA-loving Kurt Cobain's angsty thrash rock
0:06:53 > 0:06:56as well as Pearl Jam and The Smashing Pumpkins
0:06:56 > 0:07:00meant that we Brits had to just suck it up and salute Uncle Sam.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05A lot of sighing going on around here, of a good kind.
0:07:05 > 0:07:08But, Louise, how does that strike you now as somebody who was...
0:07:08 > 0:07:12to be part of it, right in the heart of it, that period at the beginning,
0:07:12 > 0:07:16did that feel like something that was yours and happening?
0:07:16 > 0:07:20Not so much. I mean, I really like... I love Shaun Ryder, he's brilliant,
0:07:20 > 0:07:23I love the Happy Mondays. It makes you smile when you see that stuff.
0:07:23 > 0:07:27- It does, yeah.- Morrissey called it "revenge of the daft", I think.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29- Did he?- Which I think is brilliant.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33I loved that. I don't really get The Stone Roses that much.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37I don't understand the deification of them. It seemed quite orthodox.
0:07:37 > 0:07:40Orthodox, chimey guitar.
0:07:40 > 0:07:44I now quite like the album, but that huge gap till the next one
0:07:44 > 0:07:47and I was on Radio 1, that's how long ago it was,
0:07:47 > 0:07:50and I remember when it was announced, it was such reverence
0:07:50 > 0:07:53that I must say I referred to them as the po-faces.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55There was a little of that going on.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58Does it seem more exciting now, looking back,
0:07:58 > 0:08:00than you remember it at the time?
0:08:00 > 0:08:02I think so. The whole grunge thing seemed exciting
0:08:02 > 0:08:05because it came off the back of that shoegazing thing.
0:08:05 > 0:08:08All those bands seemed completely allergic to tunes, you know?
0:08:08 > 0:08:11Just write a melody. How hard is that?
0:08:11 > 0:08:13- And then...- Very hard, actually.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17And then you had the grunge bands, it properly seemed exciting to me.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20It really seemed like a brilliant thing and I loved it.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22Alexis, I'm seeing it now...
0:08:22 > 0:08:24And absolutely, it went past me.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28My Lord, I was getting towards the early forties back then.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32Now I hear it mainly reflected through edited packages
0:08:32 > 0:08:35on football shows, because they're always putting those songs
0:08:35 > 0:08:37behind these "Let's see how Everton's season's been."
0:08:37 > 0:08:40- Grunge songs? Nirvana?- Really.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42- Yeah.- I know nothing about football.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45On Sky Sports, you'll hear all of that,
0:08:45 > 0:08:47all of their things are cut to it.
0:08:47 > 0:08:49It's what Kurt would have wanted!
0:08:49 > 0:08:52So what...is it your period?
0:08:52 > 0:08:56Would you say, "Yes, that's probably where I fit better?"
0:08:56 > 0:08:58Yeah, to a certain degree,
0:08:58 > 0:09:01because I was about, what, 17, 18.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04I was a big fan of shoegazing.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07People look down their nose a bit at it now
0:09:07 > 0:09:09but I was a huge fan of My Bloody Valentine,
0:09:09 > 0:09:11who I don't think were a shoegazing band at all.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14Shoegazing was wafty, sort of floaty.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18My Bloody Valentine was like having the top of your head ripped off.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21I went to see them at the Roundhouse a couple of years ago and there was
0:09:21 > 0:09:24this noise bit at the end and it was like everyone
0:09:24 > 0:09:27was just trying to prove that they liked the noise.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30It's become a bit of an endurance test.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32It's rather like, as we record this,
0:09:32 > 0:09:36King Crimson's Red, their real loudest, loudest album
0:09:36 > 0:09:39has been released on a 23-disc set.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42Do you remember it being a movement and being part of something?
0:09:42 > 0:09:45I never really felt like I was part of something.
0:09:45 > 0:09:50It seemed like there was a lot of... a constant supply of new stuff,
0:09:50 > 0:09:54different sounding stuff, so that video we just showed
0:09:54 > 0:09:58- covers effectively what, two years?- Yeah.
0:09:58 > 0:10:01And you go pretty quickly from the Happy Mondays
0:10:01 > 0:10:04to Chapterhouse to Nirvana,
0:10:04 > 0:10:07all of whom sound different from each other.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09There was a sense of constant motion in music
0:10:09 > 0:10:12that I don't think you necessarily get and things tend to develop
0:10:12 > 0:10:15- at a slightly slower pace now. - Yes, they do.
0:10:15 > 0:10:18Josie, just looking at those images, how was it for you?
0:10:18 > 0:10:21At that time...I was born in 1982,
0:10:21 > 0:10:25so around that time I would have been eight, nine and ten
0:10:25 > 0:10:27and I remember Nirvana Nevermind,
0:10:27 > 0:10:29my sister had it on tape, and I stole it off her
0:10:29 > 0:10:32and that changed my life.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34At that time, I liked about four bands.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36I liked Queen, Nirvana, Madness
0:10:36 > 0:10:39and Sergeant Pepper era The Beatles.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42Three out of four ain't bad. Forget all about Queen, thank you.
0:10:42 > 0:10:44And then, so...
0:10:44 > 0:10:47it was like an identity thing but that ill-informed thing
0:10:47 > 0:10:50where you don't have a clue really what anything is
0:10:50 > 0:10:53when you're 11, 12, so you cobble together what you think
0:10:53 > 0:10:55is a coherent identity for yourself.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58So we were like, "We're grungers and we're not townies."
0:10:58 > 0:11:01That was the thing we were defined in opposition to.
0:11:01 > 0:11:05- What's a townie?- Someone who goes to Bromley and goes to McDonald's!
0:11:05 > 0:11:06LAUGHTER
0:11:06 > 0:11:10I'm thinking those wounds aren't closed yet, are they?
0:11:10 > 0:11:13We would go to the Virgin Megastore, which is incredibly different.
0:11:13 > 0:11:17But I think it was this thing of we decided that we loved music
0:11:17 > 0:11:20and other kids at school... things like grunge and stuff.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23But there were loads of other bands that, for some reason,
0:11:23 > 0:11:25did or didn't pass the test.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28For the majority of the British youth over the preceding decades,
0:11:28 > 0:11:31rock and pop were pretty much the only forms of music
0:11:31 > 0:11:32they took to in number.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35Sure, you could dress it up and mess it about
0:11:35 > 0:11:37but an older sibling could always say,
0:11:37 > 0:11:39"You know what that sounds like? A bit like..."
0:11:39 > 0:11:40And that's disappointing.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43But suddenly, in the '90s, as Viv Stanshall once said,
0:11:43 > 0:11:46there were new horizons in sound.
0:11:46 > 0:11:48# Rhythm is a dancer
0:11:48 > 0:11:51# It's the soul's companion... #
0:11:51 > 0:11:55By the early '90s, dance music was pretty much inescapable in Britain.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58MUSIC: "What Time Is Love?" by KLF
0:11:58 > 0:12:02From warehouses to fields, forever somewhere off the M1,
0:12:02 > 0:12:06right into the charts, where one in three of the Top Ten hits in the UK
0:12:06 > 0:12:08was a dance record.
0:12:08 > 0:12:14It was only a matter of time before the solid rockers got in on the act.
0:12:15 > 0:12:19The Shamen, a sometime indie group from Aberdeen,
0:12:19 > 0:12:22diligently put in the necessary personal research.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24"This could be psychological dynamite."
0:12:24 > 0:12:27# Eezer Goode, Eezer Goode He's Ebeneezer Goode... #
0:12:27 > 0:12:30And lo, they reached the highest position in the charts
0:12:30 > 0:12:32with Ebeneezer Goode.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36Historians still argue over what the song actually meant.
0:12:36 > 0:12:38# Very naughty! #
0:12:41 > 0:12:44Primal Scream, who had been channelling the MC5,
0:12:44 > 0:12:49went to their first rave, dropped E and met DJ whizz, Andy Weatherall.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55His remixes gave them a hit album, Screamadelica,
0:12:55 > 0:12:57and a hit single, Loaded,
0:12:57 > 0:13:01which this time channelled Peter Fonda's voice
0:13:01 > 0:13:03from the 1960s film Wild Angels.
0:13:03 > 0:13:07We want to be free to do what we want to do.
0:13:07 > 0:13:10MUSIC: "Insomnia" by Faithless
0:13:11 > 0:13:14As the decade progressed, the government legislated
0:13:14 > 0:13:17to restrict rave culture and clubbing moved indoors.
0:13:17 > 0:13:20# And you just groan boy
0:13:20 > 0:13:22# She said come over, come over
0:13:22 > 0:13:26# She smiled at you boy... #
0:13:26 > 0:13:29# Back with another one of those block rockin' beats. #
0:13:30 > 0:13:34Glastonbury and T In The Park gave ravers fresh air again
0:13:34 > 0:13:37when they opened festival dance tents in 1995.
0:13:37 > 0:13:41Dance acts were happy to share the stage with rock bands
0:13:41 > 0:13:45and show how repetitive beats could move a festival crowd.
0:13:45 > 0:13:47The following year, 2.6 million people
0:13:47 > 0:13:51tried to buy tickets to see Oasis at Knebworth.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54Also sharing the bill were The Prodigy, Dreadzone
0:13:54 > 0:13:58and The Chemical Brothers, proving rave culture had well and truly
0:13:58 > 0:14:01infiltrated part of the rock mainstream.
0:14:02 > 0:14:07Let's not ignore the 300-pound gorilla in the corner of the room.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10I've never taken E, so I felt excluded
0:14:10 > 0:14:13from the plain ecstasy that the people there did.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16I could hear the music, "This is great", but I was plainly not
0:14:16 > 0:14:20- completely absorbed in it.- "On one", as they used to say back in the day.
0:14:20 > 0:14:22What did it do? What did it enhance?
0:14:22 > 0:14:25Was it absolutely necessary?
0:14:25 > 0:14:29I don't think it's ever absolutely necessary. It certainly changed...
0:14:29 > 0:14:31you don't want to say this because it sounds dodgy
0:14:31 > 0:14:33but the first time I went to a rave
0:14:33 > 0:14:36was in glamorous Margate on Margate Pier.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39It was called Seduction, in 1991, I think it was.
0:14:39 > 0:14:41I took ecstasy for the first time at this rave.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44- That experience totally changed my life.- Why?
0:14:44 > 0:14:47Because I hadn't really been interested in dance music before.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51To be completely honest, I went because I wanted to take ecstasy
0:14:51 > 0:14:55and I completely got the sense of the communal experience,
0:14:55 > 0:14:58I completely got what the music was about. It was hardcore,
0:14:58 > 0:15:01that era of Charlie by The Prodigy and Sweet Harmony by Liquid
0:15:01 > 0:15:03and those records
0:15:03 > 0:15:06and it just, it completely changed my perspective on music.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09Did it work outside of the E? If you played it in the car the next day,
0:15:09 > 0:15:13- did you think, "I don't know what I was thinking"?- No, no, no.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16I think it completely works. It works as pop music.
0:15:16 > 0:15:20You know, those records went really high in the charts.
0:15:20 > 0:15:22Loads of those records were massive hit singles,
0:15:22 > 0:15:25they weren't just being bought by people on ecstasy all the time.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29Dance music, to my mind, is the most important thing
0:15:29 > 0:15:32that happened in the '90s, full stop, in terms of pop culture.
0:15:32 > 0:15:35It totally... it's the most impactful thing.
0:15:35 > 0:15:38It had a social impact in a way that no other music did.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41- Did dance music do it for you? - It really didn't, you know.
0:15:41 > 0:15:45I feel I missed out on it, looking back and hearing that stuff again.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47As Alexis said, it works as pop tunes,
0:15:47 > 0:15:50it's just so brilliant on that level.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53But if the '80s was all about individualism
0:15:53 > 0:15:55and this was all about being the collective mind,
0:15:55 > 0:15:58it always felt a bit like group-think for me.
0:15:58 > 0:16:00Were you suspicious of it?
0:16:00 > 0:16:02I was suspicious that everyone was going out
0:16:02 > 0:16:05having the same euphoric experience and ending up
0:16:05 > 0:16:07making this sort of shape in a field.
0:16:07 > 0:16:12You've got this benign dictator with the lasers and the four-on-the-floor.
0:16:12 > 0:16:16It was counter-cultural, but what was it saying?
0:16:16 > 0:16:20It just seemed to be saying, "Let's have a hedonistic time",
0:16:20 > 0:16:21so I didn't know...
0:16:21 > 0:16:23There's worse things to say in music than that.
0:16:23 > 0:16:26Of course there is, but at the time for me, looking back,
0:16:26 > 0:16:29I feel like I missed out in not experiencing that, frankly.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33But at the time for me, it was sort of dividing, it was tribal.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36You were either into that or you weren't.
0:16:36 > 0:16:37I think it's interesting
0:16:37 > 0:16:40because it's the last great rupture in pop culture,
0:16:40 > 0:16:43like in the same way punk was and, you know,
0:16:43 > 0:16:46required a certain readjustment of your thinking about music
0:16:46 > 0:16:48if, like me, you basically came from like an indie background
0:16:48 > 0:16:49and got into that,
0:16:49 > 0:16:53and I completely immersed myself in dance culture for most of the '90s.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56- Were you much of a dancer before it? - Oh, God, no!
0:16:56 > 0:16:59The first rave I went to, I had to borrow my mate's clothes,
0:16:59 > 0:17:01my mate's raver clothes in order to go,
0:17:01 > 0:17:04because I looked like Bobby Gillespie in that clip.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07Tight jeans and pointy boots and '60s hair, and all that.
0:17:07 > 0:17:11- He said, "You can't go like that." - When you danced, how was it?
0:17:11 > 0:17:16- I'm not doing it now! - But did you surprise yourself?
0:17:16 > 0:17:19- Was that the liberating thing of it? - Yeah, absolutely.
0:17:19 > 0:17:22It felt totally liberating, it didn't feel like anyone
0:17:22 > 0:17:24was going to laugh at you or think you were a dickhead because of,
0:17:24 > 0:17:27you know, how you looked, how you were dancing.
0:17:27 > 0:17:28It felt like a really....
0:17:28 > 0:17:31It's chemically induced and you can say it's false or whatever,
0:17:31 > 0:17:34but it felt like a really warm, communal experience.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37Absolute precedent because you can see at some of these things
0:17:37 > 0:17:41in Hyde Park in the '60s, the Third Ear Band would be on stage,
0:17:41 > 0:17:45not one of the great moments, but there's somebody there just...
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Yeah, they're wigging out but it's, again,
0:17:47 > 0:17:49when you say about the communal,
0:17:49 > 0:17:51it's not so much about the band any more and God knows,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54perhaps not even the music. I think that's what I thought
0:17:54 > 0:17:56when I used to look at those barns and think,
0:17:56 > 0:17:58"I can't think of anything worse."
0:17:58 > 0:18:00And then if you look at the individual you'd think,
0:18:00 > 0:18:03"He couldn't care less, he's having the time of this life."
0:18:03 > 0:18:06- It must have felt amazing.- I thought it was totally like punk as well.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09One of my theories about it at the time was that it was like,
0:18:09 > 0:18:12if punk was an attempt on some level to break down the boundary
0:18:12 > 0:18:14between performer and audience, this had really happened
0:18:14 > 0:18:17because the stars were the people who were dancing.
0:18:17 > 0:18:21- The DJs weren't until later. - It's all pirate radio... Sorry.
0:18:21 > 0:18:24It's all pirate radio as well when it's all like samples,
0:18:24 > 0:18:27it's really taking control and like, going for it.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31By 1995, rock 'n' roll was fully 40 years old.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33The original bobby socks and youth culture
0:18:33 > 0:18:35could now have grandchildren.
0:18:35 > 0:18:3840 years of rocking, that's a lot of noise.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41That's a lot of hellraising. It's a lot of back catalogue.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44And for quite a few modern bands it offered a whole new way
0:18:44 > 0:18:47to plunder - I mean, re-imagine a song.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55Although invented in the 1970s,
0:18:55 > 0:18:59it was the 1990s which became the decade of the CD.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05Record companies wisely persuaded us to pack up our vinyl collections
0:19:05 > 0:19:09and repurchase them all over again on compact disc.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13By the early '90s,
0:19:13 > 0:19:1870% of all music sales in the UK were from back catalogues.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20# I was always thinking....
0:19:20 > 0:19:24Rock's entire musical heritage became easily accessible.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27And once rediscovered, it was reinterpreted.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30# But only love can break your heart
0:19:30 > 0:19:35# Try to be sure right from the start. #
0:19:35 > 0:19:37The biggest selling single of the decade
0:19:37 > 0:19:41was Wet Wet Wet's cover of a '60s hit by The Troggs.
0:19:42 > 0:19:44# Love is all around me... #
0:19:44 > 0:19:46Oh, no!
0:19:46 > 0:19:48# There she goes
0:19:48 > 0:19:51# There she goes again... #
0:19:51 > 0:19:54The La's were one of the first in a long line of '90s groups
0:19:54 > 0:19:56to evoke The Beatles,
0:19:56 > 0:20:01obsessively sourcing vintage mixing desks for the perfect sound.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04# This feeling that remains... #
0:20:06 > 0:20:10# I'm free to be whatever I... #
0:20:10 > 0:20:16Oasis were fans of The Beatles and, we presume, The Rutles too.
0:20:16 > 0:20:19# How sweet
0:20:19 > 0:20:21# To be an idiot... #
0:20:21 > 0:20:25Which contained Neil Innes, who was a big fan of The Beatles.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28Don't laugh, that's actually the shape of Neil's head!
0:20:28 > 0:20:32# No more heroes any more... #
0:20:32 > 0:20:36And as the old line between homage and stealing became blurred,
0:20:36 > 0:20:38some people took exception.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41# ..But I'm lazy.. #
0:20:41 > 0:20:44The Stranglers sued Elastica for plagiarism.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50A sample from The Andrew Oldham Orchestra was "overused"
0:20:50 > 0:20:51by The Verve.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58It was a bittersweet success when 100% of their royalties
0:20:58 > 0:21:01were awarded to The Rolling Stones, who wrote the original.
0:21:04 > 0:21:07# We are young, we run green... #
0:21:07 > 0:21:09As well as musical similarities,
0:21:09 > 0:21:12there were noticeable stylistic comparisons.
0:21:13 > 0:21:17As a result of all this borrowing, the '90s became the first decade
0:21:17 > 0:21:21when the same music appealed to both teenagers and their parents.
0:21:21 > 0:21:23Which doesn't sound like a good thing, Josie,
0:21:23 > 0:21:27and yet you said the '80s meant nothing to you.
0:21:27 > 0:21:31- Did you discover the '60s or the '70s before the '80s?- Yeah, I did.
0:21:31 > 0:21:33My mum had a record collection that was quite modest
0:21:33 > 0:21:35but I used to go through...
0:21:35 > 0:21:39I got Times They Are A-Changin' by Bob Dylan.
0:21:39 > 0:21:43Erm, this Ella Fitzgerald Live In London record.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45It's still one of my favourites ever, it's incredible.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48- She forgets the lyrics...- Yes, I've heard that.- She's so charming.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52- It's amazing. Er, like Donovan. - Oh, well done, your mum.
0:21:52 > 0:21:54But she had loads of Rolling Stones,
0:21:54 > 0:21:56but for some reason I took against the Rolling Stones
0:21:56 > 0:21:59at about age eight or nine and I've never been able to get over that.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01- Really?- I've always been like,
0:22:01 > 0:22:03"Nah, don't like them." I have no idea why.
0:22:03 > 0:22:07She had Jethro Tull, loads of cool stuff. So I had all of that stuff.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09That was some of the first music I found.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12When my parents were out I'd put it on the record player and be like,
0:22:12 > 0:22:14- "What is this?"- Well done.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16It must have been a bit of a drag when a song was a hit
0:22:16 > 0:22:18and somebody else would say,
0:22:18 > 0:22:20"That's a cover version, let me play the original."
0:22:20 > 0:22:22Nobody wants that either, though.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26Me and friend had this game this summer.
0:22:26 > 0:22:31There's a band, Tame Impala, now who sounds like '60s R&B, I think.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33They did a cover of Remember Me, which goes,
0:22:33 > 0:22:36- # Remember me... #- Blue Boy.
0:22:36 > 0:22:40Yeah. But Blue Boy did it - it's just samples from another song.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44If you were to listen to Blue Boy, the '90s dance song,
0:22:44 > 0:22:47the Tame Impala, the 2012 cover, and the samples it's from,
0:22:47 > 0:22:50you would assume that Tame Impala is the original
0:22:50 > 0:22:51and Blue Boy was the cover
0:22:51 > 0:22:54and the third one was some sort of reinterpretation.
0:22:54 > 0:22:55And I think it's kind of lovely
0:22:55 > 0:22:59that that was the start of boundaries being blurred like that.
0:22:59 > 0:23:02I mean, I find it both refreshing and obviously comforting.
0:23:02 > 0:23:06Tame Impala, particularly, when I first heard them, you think,
0:23:06 > 0:23:08"Wow, Man are back." There's a reference.
0:23:08 > 0:23:12I don't know whether people care any more like we did
0:23:12 > 0:23:14about owning stuff like that.
0:23:14 > 0:23:19You, plainly, Alexis, had more of an idea of heritage.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21Yes, to a certain degree.
0:23:21 > 0:23:23But I think there's a fundamental change in the way that,
0:23:23 > 0:23:25and it's partly down to sampling
0:23:25 > 0:23:27and partly down to something else, I think,
0:23:27 > 0:23:31in the way rock music and pop music work, and it happens in the '90s.
0:23:31 > 0:23:35Up to that point for the most part, rock and pop music tries to ensnare
0:23:35 > 0:23:38an audience by means of novelty, it's something new,
0:23:38 > 0:23:41you've not heard anything like this before. You know what I mean?
0:23:41 > 0:23:44In the '90s, and it's something that still goes on now,
0:23:44 > 0:23:47it starts to ensnare an audience by familiarity,
0:23:47 > 0:23:49there's something comforting about it.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52It sort of recalls stuff you've heard in the past.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54Oasis sound a bit like Slade or whatever.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56You know, that kind of thing.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59I don't quite know what brought that on.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01Partly, it's down to sampling,
0:24:01 > 0:24:04partly it's down to the sort of growth in this notion of a,
0:24:04 > 0:24:06growth in this notion of nostalgia.
0:24:06 > 0:24:11Is there an argument there, it's also, perhaps,
0:24:11 > 0:24:13symptomatic of an exhaustion of the form?
0:24:13 > 0:24:17Is there much more you can do with it?
0:24:17 > 0:24:20That doesn't disenfranchise what they're doing
0:24:20 > 0:24:22but they hear it and think,
0:24:22 > 0:24:27"That may not be perfected upon. We can do it differently, but..."
0:24:27 > 0:24:29I think that's a really dangerous thing to think, though,
0:24:29 > 0:24:33if you're a band. As people have been constantly told
0:24:33 > 0:24:34since the mid-90s,
0:24:34 > 0:24:37if you set out your belief that, basically,
0:24:37 > 0:24:39all the great things have happened in the past
0:24:39 > 0:24:41and the best you can hope to do as a new band
0:24:41 > 0:24:43is Xerox something from the past
0:24:43 > 0:24:48in the hope that a bit of the magic will somehow transfer itself to you,
0:24:48 > 0:24:50if you tell kids that enough, they'll believe it.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53That's the worst.... That's the worst thing that I've heard.
0:24:53 > 0:24:57It is, but by the same token, nobody said it would last for ever,
0:24:57 > 0:24:59what we are discussing as rock music,
0:24:59 > 0:25:02in the same way as vaudeville or silent movies, or even television.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04It can be finite.
0:25:04 > 0:25:07On the one hand, you've got this flood of information
0:25:07 > 0:25:10and you've got access to every record ever released at all times,
0:25:10 > 0:25:12so that's incredible and intimidating.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14Obviously, there's more and more things stacked up
0:25:14 > 0:25:17but there's always going to be people who want to make music
0:25:17 > 0:25:20and be creative and there's infinite complexity to that.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23But at the same time, if anyone had ever told me
0:25:23 > 0:25:25when I was younger, "You're going to grow up
0:25:25 > 0:25:28"and people are not going to play or know who Frank Sinatra is",
0:25:28 > 0:25:30I'd have said, "It's too big." It's happening.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33Coming to Louise, when you first started making records,
0:25:33 > 0:25:34were you aware...
0:25:34 > 0:25:37"Does this sound new or am I too much a product of my influences?"
0:25:37 > 0:25:40I don't think you think about that so much.
0:25:40 > 0:25:42You sort of look at more about what's going on around you
0:25:42 > 0:25:44and you start to form part of the movement
0:25:44 > 0:25:46that you see other people doing
0:25:46 > 0:25:49and you start to feel a part of the movement.
0:25:49 > 0:25:50But I think part of that nostalgia
0:25:50 > 0:25:54and that celebration of British music was a reaction against grunge,
0:25:54 > 0:25:58wasn't it, as well as all these teenagers that won't tidy their room
0:25:58 > 0:26:00making alienated music.
0:26:00 > 0:26:03You know, it's all, like, complaint rock, they called it,
0:26:03 > 0:26:04and then the British response was,
0:26:04 > 0:26:08"Look at our heritage, look what we've got", which is great,
0:26:08 > 0:26:10but then you had these well-behaved teenagers
0:26:10 > 0:26:13that would come down from their bedrooms
0:26:13 > 0:26:16to sit with their mum and dads to share the same music,
0:26:16 > 0:26:19which is kind of nice, but maybe this was the first generation
0:26:19 > 0:26:22that grew up with their parents' records that were great.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25If you grew up and your parents were playing The Beatles
0:26:25 > 0:26:27and The Stones and The Kinks and XTC and all that kind of stuff,
0:26:27 > 0:26:30then it's quite hard to then say, "Actually, that was shit,
0:26:30 > 0:26:33"let's go and have something else", because it was great.
0:26:33 > 0:26:37But your initial approach to making records, who did you want to be?
0:26:37 > 0:26:41- When I first started ever? Bananarama.- There you go!- Yeah.
0:26:41 > 0:26:44- That's pretty cool.- Yeah. That's what I wanted to do.
0:26:44 > 0:26:46I was pure pop when I was growing up.
0:26:46 > 0:26:49Is there footage of you perhaps in a Bananarama-eqsue mode anywhere?
0:26:49 > 0:26:50We've burnt it.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52LAUGHTER
0:26:52 > 0:26:55For much of the '80s, the roaring rhetoric of punk rock
0:26:55 > 0:26:57was still too raw to be reasoned with.
0:26:57 > 0:27:01Old farts and past fashions were still only fit to be sneered at.
0:27:01 > 0:27:04But in the '90s, The Beatles, The Kinks
0:27:04 > 0:27:08and even Deep Purple were heard as if fresh.
0:27:08 > 0:27:11New bands said, "You know, you guys, don't be modern.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13"Do what you used to do. You're brilliant! Oh, and so is Britain!
0:27:13 > 0:27:15"Oh, and so are we!"
0:27:15 > 0:27:17MUSIC: "Cool Britannia" by Bonzo Dog Band
0:27:20 > 0:27:23Cool Britannia, the "UK is OK" brand,
0:27:23 > 0:27:26was first launched in the Swinging '60s,
0:27:26 > 0:27:28and celebrated by the Bonzo Dog Band.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31# Cool Britannia
0:27:31 > 0:27:32# Britannia, you are cool
0:27:32 > 0:27:34# Take a trip
0:27:34 > 0:27:38# Britons ever, ever, ever shall be hip
0:27:38 > 0:27:39# Hit me, hit me! #
0:27:42 > 0:27:45After that, the idea sat it out for a couple of decades,
0:27:45 > 0:27:49until the Brit hit the fan all over again.
0:27:49 > 0:27:53Now there was Britpop, Brit cinema, Brit fashion, Britt Ekland,
0:27:53 > 0:27:55and even Brit art.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58Everybody seemed to be everyone else's chart,
0:27:58 > 0:28:02swept up in a typhoon of media swoon.
0:28:02 > 0:28:03Look, there's Damien Hirst,
0:28:03 > 0:28:06directing a video for his friends Blur.
0:28:08 > 0:28:12Britpop bands thumbed their noses at grungey Americana,
0:28:12 > 0:28:16and focused instead on the more exciting aspects of British life.
0:28:16 > 0:28:19# Cigarettes and alcohol. #
0:28:19 > 0:28:22# I want to live like common people
0:28:22 > 0:28:26# I want to do whatever common people do. #
0:28:26 > 0:28:28To be cool, you had to be a working class person,
0:28:28 > 0:28:31or at least do a thundering good impression of one.
0:28:31 > 0:28:35You could make videos in supermarkets, like Sleeper and Pulp.
0:28:35 > 0:28:38# I took her to a supermarket
0:28:38 > 0:28:42# I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere
0:28:43 > 0:28:45# So it started... #
0:28:45 > 0:28:47British comedy, which was, of course, the new rock'n'roll,
0:28:47 > 0:28:49was not to be left out.
0:28:49 > 0:28:53Baddiel and Skinner sang that English football was coming home.
0:28:53 > 0:28:56This was the era of lads behaving badly,
0:28:56 > 0:28:59and enough Union Jack bunting to circle the globe.
0:28:59 > 0:29:01# You got to roll with it
0:29:01 > 0:29:03# You got to take... #
0:29:03 > 0:29:06The music press took to stoking the fires of a North-South feud...
0:29:06 > 0:29:08The Manchester band Oasis
0:29:08 > 0:29:12and their archrivals Blur released new singles today.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15# You're taking me over... #
0:29:15 > 0:29:17..and declaring a band such as Suede
0:29:17 > 0:29:20to be approaching the best in the world,
0:29:20 > 0:29:22even before they've released a record.
0:29:22 > 0:29:25# Moving on up, you're moving on out... #
0:29:25 > 0:29:28Even Tony Blair, who probably hadn't thought about rock
0:29:28 > 0:29:31since quitting his college band Ugly Rumours,
0:29:31 > 0:29:34invited Noel Gallagher back to his place for a drink,
0:29:34 > 0:29:35and possibly a jam.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38For a year or so, Union Jacks were inescapable.
0:29:38 > 0:29:39The Spice Girls jumped aboard
0:29:39 > 0:29:43when Geri Halliwell's sister made her a dress for the '97 Brit Awards.
0:29:43 > 0:29:46All from tea towels, too!
0:29:46 > 0:29:48And what news of the Dane?
0:29:48 > 0:29:52Well, he was flaunting an Alexander McQueen Union Jack coat,
0:29:52 > 0:29:55but sensing the suspension was beginning to go a bit
0:29:55 > 0:29:59on the Brit bandwagon, Bowie was now down with the drum and bass crew.
0:29:59 > 0:30:01You know, floundering a bit.
0:30:01 > 0:30:02# Wonder you. #
0:30:03 > 0:30:07- Alexis, here we are, 1990s. Britpop.- Yeah.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10There's a really interesting thing that happens to Britpop.
0:30:10 > 0:30:14If you look at that... You showed the famous cover of Select magazine
0:30:14 > 0:30:17with the guy from Suede and the Union Jack.
0:30:17 > 0:30:20The bands that were featured in that issue of Select,
0:30:20 > 0:30:25the only ones that went on to become a huge Britpop band were Pulp,
0:30:25 > 0:30:28and all the other bands, Pulp included,
0:30:28 > 0:30:32were not... They were interested in the past, they were interested in
0:30:32 > 0:30:34looking back at Britain's past,
0:30:34 > 0:30:37but it definitely was not in this Union Jack waving,
0:30:37 > 0:30:40"Whoa! Wasn't 1966 amazing", good old, you know,
0:30:40 > 0:30:43"We won the World Cup." It was a sort of really interesting,
0:30:43 > 0:30:47I thought, interrogation of stuff about the early '70s.
0:30:47 > 0:30:51It was a lot murkier, it was a lot darker. You get a hint of that.
0:30:51 > 0:30:54- Who are you talking about, then?- The Auteurs, Denim.
0:30:54 > 0:30:58They're not much thought about these days, but, you know,
0:30:58 > 0:31:00Pulp did it to a certain degree.
0:31:00 > 0:31:02Common People is held up as this big Britpop hit.
0:31:02 > 0:31:04It's not some sort of flag waving...
0:31:04 > 0:31:07This is a serious song about the class system in Britain.
0:31:07 > 0:31:09It's one of the few, in inverted commas, "protest songs"
0:31:09 > 0:31:10to come out at that time,
0:31:10 > 0:31:15and there's a really intriguing, slightly depressing shift, I think,
0:31:15 > 0:31:19in the mid '90s. Initially, you have bands looking back at Britain's past
0:31:19 > 0:31:21in a slightly... Looking at it slightly askance and going,
0:31:21 > 0:31:24"That's a bit peculiar" and sort of picking at it a little bit.
0:31:24 > 0:31:26And somehow, by the middle of the '90s,
0:31:26 > 0:31:28that just becomes waving a Union Jack
0:31:28 > 0:31:30- and "Isn't everything wonderful?" - Yeah.
0:31:30 > 0:31:33But do we blame... We don't blame,
0:31:33 > 0:31:35but do we look at the bands for that,
0:31:35 > 0:31:38or because rock and pop had become industry, everyone thought,
0:31:38 > 0:31:40"That's what we're going to sell.
0:31:40 > 0:31:45"We can sell this angle." Louise, by the time you're up and running
0:31:45 > 0:31:48and making records and doing all the shows,
0:31:48 > 0:31:54did you feel part of anything, or even you were being, perhaps, pushed
0:31:54 > 0:31:58- towards a certain style, look, movement?- It felt mostly
0:31:58 > 0:32:01like a media construct, I think, because I don't think...
0:32:01 > 0:32:03Like you said, we weren't all going home
0:32:03 > 0:32:05waving our Union Jacks in front of the telly.
0:32:05 > 0:32:09It just wasn't about that. I think it was a slight re-examination of what
0:32:09 > 0:32:13it meant to be English and the notion that, instead of writing pop music
0:32:13 > 0:32:16or rock music which escapes the suburbs and all that stuff,
0:32:16 > 0:32:18you could actually re-examine it,
0:32:18 > 0:32:21write about it, write lyrics about what the experience was like
0:32:21 > 0:32:24and you could be sort of parochial, I suppose, on some level
0:32:24 > 0:32:26and that was acceptable and it was OK
0:32:26 > 0:32:29and you could hark back to, again, a lot of that nostalgic stuff.
0:32:29 > 0:32:31But did it come naturally if you wrote upbeat,
0:32:31 > 0:32:33or did you feel a pressure
0:32:33 > 0:32:36to release something of a piece with the country's mood?
0:32:36 > 0:32:37When we began, we were quite grungey
0:32:37 > 0:32:40and it moved, became more and more sort of Britpop,
0:32:40 > 0:32:44and I think there was certainly that pressure to do that,
0:32:44 > 0:32:47and everyone became more and more cartoonish and concentrated,
0:32:47 > 0:32:50until you get to that Country House video
0:32:50 > 0:32:54and suddenly it's like Benny Hill, isn't it? It's oompah music.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57And all of a sudden, you find yourself pressured
0:32:57 > 0:32:59- to do goofy sketches on TFI Friday. - Exactly!
0:32:59 > 0:33:02- Who wrote those?- I apologised before the show began. It's all right.
0:33:02 > 0:33:04Josie, how do you look at Britpop?
0:33:04 > 0:33:06Does it resonate with you quite as much as it does
0:33:06 > 0:33:08with everybody else here?
0:33:08 > 0:33:11Yeah, I mean, definitely, and weirdly, considering, like, the way
0:33:11 > 0:33:13that, I suppose,
0:33:13 > 0:33:16what my identity was at the time, I think I thought I was riot grrrl,
0:33:16 > 0:33:19but I didn't really know any riot grrrl bands
0:33:19 > 0:33:21and I was really into, like, zines.
0:33:21 > 0:33:23I was into little bits of culture
0:33:23 > 0:33:26I'd managed to find in Orpington without the internet, you know,
0:33:26 > 0:33:27so, like, I was really into zines
0:33:27 > 0:33:32and I was really into small bands up in London. So I really liked...
0:33:32 > 0:33:34I liked Kenickie a lot,
0:33:34 > 0:33:38and I liked things that were kind of just that little bit more...
0:33:38 > 0:33:42I suppose, like, smaller scale.
0:33:42 > 0:33:46Was there enough around for you to find a nourishing base of music,
0:33:46 > 0:33:51- or did you feel left out of it? - No! We were so excited by it.
0:33:51 > 0:33:53Like, there were so many kind of...
0:33:53 > 0:33:55Because we were just down the train line
0:33:55 > 0:33:57from Bromley coming up to London, we were just so lucky
0:33:57 > 0:34:00that we could go to little gigs at the Borderline
0:34:00 > 0:34:03and the London Astoria too, and you would find out things
0:34:03 > 0:34:06and then you would get the NME and you would find out another gig that
0:34:06 > 0:34:09you could go to and stuff like that, so it was actually one of the things
0:34:09 > 0:34:11that was less prohibitive, because you could only book tickets
0:34:11 > 0:34:14for gigs if one of your parents had a credit card and would let you.
0:34:14 > 0:34:17Whereas if you're at a smaller gig and it's three or four quid,
0:34:17 > 0:34:20- you could potentially get to that. - And of course,
0:34:20 > 0:34:23you may have felt a little pressure from the incredible recent
0:34:23 > 0:34:25pop heritage of that Bromley set,
0:34:25 > 0:34:27the Bromley set who were huge in punk rock,
0:34:27 > 0:34:30and then with the whole New Romantic scene,
0:34:30 > 0:34:33that Bromley line you were travelling had a heritage.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35We thought that we were the best for being from there.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38We were like, "David Bowie's from here, so we're the best."
0:34:38 > 0:34:41- We were just teenagers doing nothing.- Siouxsie Sioux, you know...
0:34:41 > 0:34:44old Billy Broad, who went on to have a few hits himself.
0:34:44 > 0:34:45We were into that.
0:34:45 > 0:34:46But it's so funny as well,
0:34:46 > 0:34:49because that ended quite clearly in about 1981,
0:34:49 > 0:34:51and then we're there in 1997 like,
0:34:51 > 0:34:54"Yeah, we're all part of that." But, you know.
0:34:54 > 0:34:58Part of the Swinging Britain thing, and here's the extraordinary thing.
0:34:58 > 0:35:01It remained British. It did not conquer America
0:35:01 > 0:35:02as a previous British fever had.
0:35:02 > 0:35:04Why do you reckon that was?
0:35:04 > 0:35:08Um... I don't really know. I think...
0:35:08 > 0:35:11Pulp, Oasis couldn't get arrested in America...
0:35:11 > 0:35:14You can see that Pulp is something that's very bound up
0:35:14 > 0:35:18with kind of, a certain kind of arcane Britishness
0:35:18 > 0:35:21that's not going to play in Ohio - it just isn't.
0:35:21 > 0:35:24You've got to know these kind of references they're making
0:35:24 > 0:35:28to quite arcane '70s telly and things like that. That's not going to work.
0:35:28 > 0:35:30Why Oasis didn't take off, I've absolutely no idea
0:35:30 > 0:35:34because Americans could have had the pick of British bands,
0:35:34 > 0:35:35they all went over there.
0:35:35 > 0:35:38They didn't like their stroppiness very much.
0:35:38 > 0:35:40They didn't like Oasis's stroppiness.
0:35:40 > 0:35:42Also, if we're looking at an antecedent being in Slade,
0:35:42 > 0:35:44they didn't happen in America either.
0:35:44 > 0:35:48By 1997, though, the Britpop party was still in session
0:35:48 > 0:35:52but to be fair, being so upbeat all the time can be exhausting.
0:35:52 > 0:35:53Tell me about it.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56If rock was going to emerge vital and strong into the millennium,
0:35:56 > 0:36:01it was going to have to sober up a bit, and sober it got.
0:36:01 > 0:36:02Aided and abetted,
0:36:02 > 0:36:05as Phil Daniels had so ironically bellowed in Parklife,
0:36:05 > 0:36:08aided a bit by the by the old Vorsprung Durch Technik -
0:36:08 > 0:36:11advancement through technology.
0:36:11 > 0:36:15# Things can only get better... #
0:36:16 > 0:36:19When the fizz of Britpop faded in 1997,
0:36:19 > 0:36:22a less joyous mood seemed to take hold.
0:36:22 > 0:36:26# Like a cat in a bag
0:36:26 > 0:36:29# Waiting to drown... #
0:36:29 > 0:36:32Ironically, many of these more sober-sounding bands
0:36:32 > 0:36:34who had watched Britpop from the sidelines
0:36:34 > 0:36:36would go on to be more successful
0:36:36 > 0:36:40than most of their red, white and blue-bedecked cohorts.
0:36:40 > 0:36:43# Know I'll see your face again... #
0:36:45 > 0:36:48After a dry afternoon at Glastonbury in 1999,
0:36:48 > 0:36:51Travis caused an almighty downpour.
0:36:51 > 0:36:54# Why does it always rain on me? #
0:36:54 > 0:36:59They embraced the moment, though, and each raindrop signalled a sale.
0:37:04 > 0:37:07The MO of such bands was businesslike and unflashy.
0:37:07 > 0:37:10The North/South divide was over.
0:37:10 > 0:37:14These bands came from Glasgow, Wigan, Birmingham, Liverpool.
0:37:14 > 0:37:1745% of them were outright Welsh!
0:37:19 > 0:37:22Perhaps the most well-known of the Cool Cymru exponents
0:37:22 > 0:37:25were the Manic Street Preachers.
0:37:25 > 0:37:28After the strange disappearance of their guitarist Richey Edwards,
0:37:28 > 0:37:31they regrouped to find even greater success
0:37:31 > 0:37:35playing to 80,000 fans on New Year's Eve in 1999.
0:37:44 > 0:37:47As pre-millennial tension manifested itself,
0:37:47 > 0:37:52the music industry was grappling with a new digital future.
0:37:52 > 0:37:57# No alarms and no surprises... #
0:37:57 > 0:37:59For many, Radiohead's OK Computer
0:37:59 > 0:38:03was one of the greatest achievements of the decade.
0:38:03 > 0:38:05Appropriately, singer Thom Yorke said
0:38:05 > 0:38:08the album had been inspired by the speed of the '90s.
0:38:15 > 0:38:18And few would have predicted that Coldplay,
0:38:18 > 0:38:22a band who sold just 50 copies of their debut EP,
0:38:22 > 0:38:25would soon become one of the biggest bands in the world.
0:38:27 > 0:38:30This was the dawning of yet another new age for British rock.
0:38:30 > 0:38:33# I swam across
0:38:33 > 0:38:37# I jumped across for you... #
0:38:38 > 0:38:43For some, it represented phenomenal growth and opportunity.
0:38:43 > 0:38:45For others, it was the end of an era.
0:38:45 > 0:38:49# Cos you were all yellow... #
0:38:49 > 0:38:51And I don't know about you, Josie,
0:38:51 > 0:38:54it may have been the last twitching of the corpse
0:38:54 > 0:38:57where perhaps a youth was in charge of its culture.
0:38:57 > 0:39:00After that, it dissipated somewhat, no?
0:39:00 > 0:39:02You see, I'm such an optimist
0:39:02 > 0:39:05but I think about things like grime music now
0:39:05 > 0:39:07and I think about how many young people
0:39:07 > 0:39:11are making their own music electronically and just how...
0:39:11 > 0:39:13I feel like it's always there.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15But where's the tension not to?
0:39:15 > 0:39:20Up until perhaps that period, there was a resistance by the culture.
0:39:20 > 0:39:24Really, pop music? But now, it's yeah, sure. Here's your grant.
0:39:24 > 0:39:27Grant?! There's no such thing!
0:39:27 > 0:39:30No, nowadays there's the big, really, really...
0:39:30 > 0:39:32where all the money goes to the massive acts
0:39:32 > 0:39:35and then there's everything else for you to find
0:39:35 > 0:39:38and there's loads of people out there doing things
0:39:38 > 0:39:40where they know they can't make a living from it but they love it,
0:39:40 > 0:39:43where they know they are battling all kinds of circumstances
0:39:43 > 0:39:44to make something incredible.
0:39:44 > 0:39:49How do you view that change from "It's a great party"
0:39:49 > 0:39:52to "Let's sober up and try and do something serious"?
0:39:52 > 0:39:56Forced jollity, you know, wears on your nerves after a while.
0:39:56 > 0:39:58Um, that's one reason why it happened
0:39:58 > 0:40:01and if you look at that latter part of the '90s,
0:40:01 > 0:40:04the rise of bands like Travis and Coldplay,
0:40:04 > 0:40:08I think what that is is... there was a fundamental change
0:40:08 > 0:40:13in the way "alternative" musicians thought in the '90s.
0:40:13 > 0:40:16Up to that point, they were always a bit embarrassed
0:40:16 > 0:40:18about being famous or wanting to be successful.
0:40:18 > 0:40:21With Oasis, a certain rapaciousness becomes the norm.
0:40:21 > 0:40:24"We want to be the biggest band in the world, da da da da..."
0:40:24 > 0:40:26It became acceptable, totally.
0:40:26 > 0:40:29Before, if an indie band went on Top Of The Pops or a punk band,
0:40:29 > 0:40:33you would take the piss a bit or look embarrassed or not go on at all.
0:40:33 > 0:40:35We saw Nirvana earlier on, goofing around.
0:40:35 > 0:40:40Whereas... so, the quest is for a mass market,
0:40:40 > 0:40:43to sell as many records as you possibly can
0:40:43 > 0:40:45and inevitably with that,
0:40:45 > 0:40:49there's going to be a certain watering down, a certain dilution
0:40:49 > 0:40:52because you're not necessarily going to want
0:40:52 > 0:40:54to make the most ground-breaking music ever,
0:40:54 > 0:40:56that's going to put people off.
0:40:56 > 0:40:57That's probably why it went to...
0:40:57 > 0:41:00Do you suspect, then, that the musicians we were talking about,
0:41:00 > 0:41:03I mean, Radiohead plainly are making the music they want to make,
0:41:03 > 0:41:06but do you think they will sit down with a business plan
0:41:06 > 0:41:09and a bunch of managers and say "This would be a smart move"?
0:41:09 > 0:41:11- I know they do.- They do now.
0:41:11 > 0:41:13To be fair, they did in Britpop as well
0:41:13 > 0:41:16and everyone was obsessed with that stuff.
0:41:16 > 0:41:18It was a pretence that we didn't care about that stuff
0:41:18 > 0:41:20but everyone was sitting down with focus groups,
0:41:20 > 0:41:23fretting about their midweeks, it wasn't...
0:41:23 > 0:41:24How did you feel about that?
0:41:24 > 0:41:27Was there a muso inside you saying, "I'm selling out"?
0:41:27 > 0:41:28No, because I didn't grow up like that,
0:41:28 > 0:41:31I just wanted to be a pop star and I didn't grow up with that notion.
0:41:31 > 0:41:35I find that hard to fit into, that "I have to be credible".
0:41:35 > 0:41:39I just wanted to sell lots of records, that's what I wanted to do.
0:41:39 > 0:41:41I think part of the come-down
0:41:41 > 0:41:44was a response to the whole post-modern thing in Britpop
0:41:44 > 0:41:47where everything was a bit tongue-in-cheek.
0:41:47 > 0:41:49Everything was all a bit wry.
0:41:49 > 0:41:52Do we really mean it, do we not really mean it?
0:41:52 > 0:41:55And then you get Coldplay and Travis and it was
0:41:55 > 0:41:57"I know where I am with that."
0:41:57 > 0:42:01It's sentimental balladry, singing about things that are yellow.
0:42:01 > 0:42:03It's earnest.
0:42:03 > 0:42:08It's earnest, but I can see the attraction to that
0:42:08 > 0:42:10off the back of what had gone before.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13That irony had increasingly become a cover for doing things
0:42:13 > 0:42:15that were actually quite naff.
0:42:15 > 0:42:18- If you look at the Country House video, it's crap.- Of course it is.
0:42:18 > 0:42:22- It's a crap, embarrassing video. - It was at the time, to be honest.
0:42:22 > 0:42:25It didn't find...I remember when Country House came out,
0:42:25 > 0:42:27they pretty quickly disowned that style
0:42:27 > 0:42:30and the public thought, I think,
0:42:30 > 0:42:32"This might be a Cockney walk too far."
0:42:32 > 0:42:35And so I think that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
0:42:35 > 0:42:38In fairness to Blur, nobody backtracked more dramatically
0:42:38 > 0:42:41- or more successfully than Blur did. - And brilliantly.
0:42:41 > 0:42:43And proceeded to make three really credible albums.
0:42:43 > 0:42:47Beetlebum came out how long after Country House? Not that long.
0:42:47 > 0:42:48'98, the next year.
0:42:48 > 0:42:52And yet we're talking as if it was an all-pervading style,
0:42:52 > 0:42:55what we've just heard, and of course it isn't.
0:42:55 > 0:42:58There were still a lot of old bands being welcomed in,
0:42:58 > 0:43:01a lot of mixing going on and there were a bunch of bands
0:43:01 > 0:43:05who wonderfully don't quite get it right and pop up and fizz and go -
0:43:05 > 0:43:07Shed Seven and all of these groups...
0:43:07 > 0:43:09Kula Shaker, who used to come through TFI Friday
0:43:09 > 0:43:11and just have a go.
0:43:11 > 0:43:13Josie, who took you into the millennium
0:43:13 > 0:43:16- and you thought, "I thought that was going to last for ever"?- Oh, gosh.
0:43:16 > 0:43:20For me, there's a lot of things from 1996 to 1999
0:43:20 > 0:43:24that I was so in love with and it was like a hard lesson for me
0:43:24 > 0:43:27to learn that not every band I loved was going to make it.
0:43:27 > 0:43:31And also that thing of the injustice of it,
0:43:31 > 0:43:34"These people are incredible, why are they not number one?"
0:43:34 > 0:43:38and not being able to understand, bands like Strangelove.
0:43:38 > 0:43:40I went to see Strangelove at the London Astoria
0:43:40 > 0:43:41and I got on stage with them.
0:43:41 > 0:43:44He got loads of people on stage with him and he was whispering,
0:43:44 > 0:43:46"I love you all"
0:43:46 > 0:43:49and it was one of the most incredible experiences of me,
0:43:49 > 0:43:52being a teenager, because it felt beyond our dreams
0:43:52 > 0:43:56to be on stage and I expect people still appreciate them
0:43:56 > 0:43:58but they aren't one you'd be like,
0:43:58 > 0:44:00"In the '90s, there was Strangelove",
0:44:00 > 0:44:02and then the Longpigs, I loved.
0:44:02 > 0:44:04Richard Hawley was their guitarist.
0:44:04 > 0:44:09I could list you 10 or 15 or 20 bands that were so meaningful to me.
0:44:09 > 0:44:12I thought Honeycrackle were going to be enormous.
0:44:12 > 0:44:14In fact, I saw a member of them the other day
0:44:14 > 0:44:15and I bought some laces off him...
0:44:15 > 0:44:21I think that is an eternal motif, where you think of this period
0:44:21 > 0:44:24and you can try and back who the winners are going to be.
0:44:24 > 0:44:26Is there anyone who's come through to rule the world?
0:44:26 > 0:44:28Did you see it coming with Coldplay?
0:44:28 > 0:44:30Did anyone see it coming, particularly with Radiohead?
0:44:30 > 0:44:32The thing people forget is that there was a stage, Louise,
0:44:32 > 0:44:37where Radiohead were seen as kind of a joke in Britain.
0:44:37 > 0:44:38Creep was laughed at.
0:44:38 > 0:44:42He had stupid hair and they never looked right.
0:44:42 > 0:44:45And they went to America and got big in the States.
0:44:45 > 0:44:46It was like, hold on...
0:44:46 > 0:44:49I remember hearing the band, having completely dismissed them.
0:44:49 > 0:44:51I was working in an office at the time on a Saturday
0:44:51 > 0:44:54and somebody brought The Bends in and I thought, "This is really good.
0:44:54 > 0:44:59"It's Radiohead!" And you could tell there was a degree of motion.
0:44:59 > 0:45:03I had no idea Radiohead would go on to do what they've done.
0:45:03 > 0:45:06I went to see Radiohead last year at the O2
0:45:06 > 0:45:10and without a shadow of doubt, it was the least commercial music
0:45:10 > 0:45:13I have ever heard played in a venue that size.
0:45:13 > 0:45:15This is the biggest venue in Europe.
0:45:15 > 0:45:19They didn't play any sort of classic material,
0:45:19 > 0:45:22they didn't play... I think they played one song off OK Computer.
0:45:22 > 0:45:25It was all new, it was all really experimental and strange.
0:45:25 > 0:45:28I didn't think they would do that, no.
0:45:28 > 0:45:32The pressure to be successful was pretty much inescapable in the '90s,
0:45:32 > 0:45:36yet despite the stultifying effect of this way of thinking,
0:45:36 > 0:45:39there still remained performers determined to do their own things
0:45:39 > 0:45:43in their idiosyncratic way and in doing so - perversely -
0:45:43 > 0:45:46some of them also became uniquely successful.
0:45:46 > 0:45:50MUSIC: "3am Eternal" by the KLF
0:45:55 > 0:45:59Self-confessed purveyors of "stadium house music", the KLF
0:45:59 > 0:46:03brought a goodly dose of cynicism to the business end of pop.
0:46:03 > 0:46:06One of the biggest-selling singles acts of the decade,
0:46:06 > 0:46:09they also wrote the manual, How To Have A Number One The Easy Way.
0:46:09 > 0:46:13Here they are, giving their last ever performance
0:46:13 > 0:46:14at the Brits in '92,
0:46:14 > 0:46:17after which, in a magnificently insane gesture,
0:46:17 > 0:46:20or possibly Situationist protest,
0:46:20 > 0:46:23they set fire to £1 million of their royalties
0:46:23 > 0:46:25on the Scottish Isle of Jura.
0:46:27 > 0:46:29# My lovely lovely lovely horse
0:46:29 > 0:46:31# My lovely horse... #
0:46:31 > 0:46:35Neil Hannon of the Divine Comedy wonderfully reminded us
0:46:35 > 0:46:38that pop could be both clever and really funny,
0:46:38 > 0:46:42co-writing the equine-themed, sort-of Eurovision entry
0:46:42 > 0:46:44for Father Ted and Dougal.
0:46:48 > 0:46:52A flurry of gifted foreigners rather sweetly believed that Britain
0:46:52 > 0:46:55might be a nice place to set up shop, and we duly rewarded them
0:46:55 > 0:46:58by giving them hits.
0:47:01 > 0:47:03Iceland's Bjork perplexed and enchanted.
0:47:11 > 0:47:14Closer to home, Bristol took over from Manchester
0:47:14 > 0:47:17as Massive Attack, Portishead and Tricky
0:47:17 > 0:47:19got intensely moody with trip hop.
0:47:19 > 0:47:22# Really hurt me baby
0:47:22 > 0:47:24# Really cut me baby
0:47:24 > 0:47:27# How can you have a day without a night? #
0:47:31 > 0:47:34But fellow Bristolian PJ Harvey thrillingly chose to deliver
0:47:34 > 0:47:37intensity of a very different kind.
0:47:40 > 0:47:44Her '90s albums established her as one British artist who would
0:47:44 > 0:47:47continue to intrigue her audience well into the next century.
0:47:47 > 0:47:49# 50 foot Queenie
0:47:49 > 0:47:51# 50 foot Queenie. #
0:47:53 > 0:47:56Louise, watching the outro of that,
0:47:56 > 0:48:01do you think in some ways it can be easier to be a maverick
0:48:01 > 0:48:05than it can to be just someone who tours and writes hit records?
0:48:05 > 0:48:07Because always, the benefit of the doubt
0:48:07 > 0:48:09is given to the uncompromising.
0:48:09 > 0:48:12Yeah, good point, you can stand out and plough your own furrow,
0:48:12 > 0:48:15do your own thing, you don't have to join in with anything.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18"That's how they are" - given the freedom.
0:48:18 > 0:48:20And that must have been hugely liberating, I think.
0:48:20 > 0:48:23Although watching that and seeing the KLF burn the money,
0:48:23 > 0:48:27it just seemed like such a brutal, nihilistic thing in retrospect.
0:48:27 > 0:48:30It's one of those things everyone's glad they did,
0:48:30 > 0:48:32just because it's a great piece of lore,
0:48:32 > 0:48:35but every time you actually see it going into the furnace
0:48:35 > 0:48:38and knowing how members of the KLF feel about it since,
0:48:38 > 0:48:39you just think, "Oh, my Lord!"
0:48:39 > 0:48:43I just went, "Ooh! I haven't seen that for a long time."
0:48:43 > 0:48:46It's an old expression, but is that rock'n'roll?
0:48:46 > 0:48:47No! It's really...
0:48:47 > 0:48:50Your face, particularly, during that was...
0:48:50 > 0:48:53Coming back from it, away from the mavericks and stuff,
0:48:53 > 0:48:55you - am I right here? -
0:48:55 > 0:48:59have more respect for someone who can write hit after hit?
0:48:59 > 0:49:00No, not at all.
0:49:00 > 0:49:04I think it's both, I just don't feel so judgemental about it.
0:49:04 > 0:49:06People that do the pop thing...
0:49:06 > 0:49:11it's a skill in and of itself, and people like PJ Harvey,
0:49:11 > 0:49:15I think is marvellous, obviously, and, you know...
0:49:15 > 0:49:17Did you and do you envy anyone from that period,
0:49:17 > 0:49:19you thought, "That's the way to have done it"?
0:49:19 > 0:49:21I think someone like PJ Harvey,
0:49:21 > 0:49:23I don't think I appreciated at the time, but in retrospect
0:49:23 > 0:49:25like much more than I did at the time.
0:49:25 > 0:49:28Just having the balls and the confidence to say,
0:49:28 > 0:49:32"We're doing our own thing and all be damned".
0:49:32 > 0:49:36To have this confidence to stand up and do that is a fabulous thing.
0:49:36 > 0:49:42Is that a bravery that record companies, as they were,
0:49:42 > 0:49:45could accommodate? And would you have been able to get away with it
0:49:45 > 0:49:48if you weren't selling records, Alexis?
0:49:48 > 0:49:50If you're not selling records, you can't get away with anything,
0:49:50 > 0:49:52- cos you get dropped. - In the '70s, you could.
0:49:52 > 0:49:59I suppose so, yeah. Certainly, the Britpop era was the last time
0:49:59 > 0:50:01I can remember record companies just signing...
0:50:01 > 0:50:03it was a like a bit of a gold rush.
0:50:03 > 0:50:06I remember a band called Earl Brutus - brilliant band,
0:50:06 > 0:50:08got signed to Island, a major label.
0:50:08 > 0:50:12This was not a group that anybody in their right minds thought
0:50:12 > 0:50:14was going to sell any quantities of records.
0:50:14 > 0:50:17Most of their gigs used to end up in fights.
0:50:17 > 0:50:20The two amazing bits of stagecraft they had,
0:50:20 > 0:50:22they had one of those revolving signs
0:50:22 > 0:50:24that you get outside of garages,
0:50:24 > 0:50:27and on one side, it said "Music" and on the other it said "Chips".
0:50:27 > 0:50:31I saw another gig where they played in front of a huge funeral wreath,
0:50:31 > 0:50:35where they'd made words out of a funeral wreath, "Dad" or whatever,
0:50:35 > 0:50:36and it said "Fuck off" behind the stage.
0:50:36 > 0:50:40- Who's this? Earl Brutus? - Magnificent band.
0:50:40 > 0:50:42And I remember going to the gig,
0:50:42 > 0:50:46there was Island going, "Look at this band we've signed."
0:50:46 > 0:50:49And it ended up in a fight with the audience, it was complete chaos.
0:50:49 > 0:50:54You just thought... On one hand, I'm very glad they gave them money
0:50:54 > 0:50:57because their records are amazing and brilliant pieces of art.
0:50:57 > 0:51:00They sound like the Deviants of their day.
0:51:00 > 0:51:02There is a certain element of that, yeah.
0:51:02 > 0:51:04They're like the Deviants crossed with Mud.
0:51:04 > 0:51:06LAUGHTER
0:51:06 > 0:51:07Magnificent band.
0:51:07 > 0:51:09Josie, do you see someone doing that and think,
0:51:09 > 0:51:12"I couldn't do it but thank God someone is."
0:51:12 > 0:51:13Definitely, absolutely.
0:51:13 > 0:51:15I was thinking, when I was a teenager,
0:51:15 > 0:51:18there was a band called David Devant & His Spirit Wife
0:51:18 > 0:51:23who did really silly, funny, performance art stuff on stage.
0:51:23 > 0:51:27He had this thing where he poured a big vat of custard over himself.
0:51:27 > 0:51:31I don't even know why you would... and he had loads of wheat stalks
0:51:31 > 0:51:33that he sheathed at one point during it,
0:51:33 > 0:51:38- and he had an LED, LCD, I don't know...- The dot thing?
0:51:38 > 0:51:39Yeah, it was like a ticker.
0:51:39 > 0:51:43And it would say things across the top of it during the songs.
0:51:43 > 0:51:45Sounds like an episode of Tiswas or something!
0:51:45 > 0:51:48It was, it was like Saturday morning TV!
0:51:48 > 0:51:51And were there records behind this?
0:51:51 > 0:51:54Yeah. Work, Lovelife, Miscellaneous - classic album!
0:51:54 > 0:51:59Oh! Now, that, I would hazard a guess, has gone,
0:51:59 > 0:52:01because I don't think anyone is going to say,
0:52:01 > 0:52:03"parlay my money up with your eccentricity,
0:52:03 > 0:52:06"and do what you want with it" - is anyone going to do that?
0:52:06 > 0:52:10There is a huge market, I think for...
0:52:10 > 0:52:13Yeah, but no-one's going to - record companies are scared
0:52:13 > 0:52:16and understandably so. And these are timid times,
0:52:16 > 0:52:20and you're not going to give money to Earl Brutus
0:52:20 > 0:52:24or whatever the millennial equivalent of Earl Brutus is.
0:52:24 > 0:52:26Janelle Monae is really experimental and really successful.
0:52:26 > 0:52:30I'm not knocking her, but there is a commercial potential in her records,
0:52:30 > 0:52:32she's got duets with Prince...
0:52:32 > 0:52:35Always with us, because I don't think
0:52:35 > 0:52:38you can always tell a studied eccentric from...
0:52:38 > 0:52:41whether it's a Wild Willy Barrett, a Viv Stanshall,
0:52:41 > 0:52:44an Arthur Brown, right up to your Earl Brutus there.
0:52:44 > 0:52:46The late Nick Sanderson, the lead singer.
0:52:46 > 0:52:49There you go. So I don't think it's a choice to go
0:52:49 > 0:52:50into the record industry.
0:52:50 > 0:52:53It used to be somewhere where it was their last resort,
0:52:53 > 0:52:56perhaps would like to think it still is. Here's the bit I like best.
0:52:56 > 0:52:58After all the examination, it's like taking off tight shoes.
0:52:58 > 0:53:02Having coolly dissected the decade in question,
0:53:02 > 0:53:06here come the warm jets. It's our flight case to the future.
0:53:06 > 0:53:10Regular viewers of all three shows will be well aware of what it is.
0:53:10 > 0:53:13We ask each of our guests to put an album and a piece of memorabilia
0:53:13 > 0:53:16in it that best describes for them the decade we've been talking about.
0:53:16 > 0:53:17Josie first.
0:53:17 > 0:53:20I've got Belle and Sebastian, If You're Feeling Sinister.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23- Why?- Because I love this album and I still love this album,
0:53:23 > 0:53:25I love every track on it.
0:53:25 > 0:53:28Also for me, Glasgow in the 1990s - you've got Belle & Sebastian,
0:53:28 > 0:53:32Arab Strap, Mogwai, the Delgados, Bis, Urusei Yatsura,
0:53:32 > 0:53:35that's like so... I'm barely touching on it,
0:53:35 > 0:53:39I feel like Glasgow, now still, but since forever
0:53:39 > 0:53:41has been the most exciting cultural city.
0:53:41 > 0:53:45Thank you for bringing Belle & Sebastian, somebody needed to.
0:53:45 > 0:53:46What have you got there?
0:53:46 > 0:53:49These are albums... Can I say I've never liked the Spice Girls,
0:53:49 > 0:53:52this was just from the Pound Shop and I've never covered it!
0:53:52 > 0:53:56This is my albums with pictures and gig tickets of gigs I went to
0:53:56 > 0:54:00when I was a kid. This one here, I'm really proud of.
0:54:00 > 0:54:04- All your tickets!- Helen Love and Period Pains, bands I really loved.
0:54:04 > 0:54:08- You are the indie-est person I've ever come across!- Nada Surf...
0:54:08 > 0:54:11David Devant and His Spirit Wife! Look at this one - Urusei Yatsura,
0:54:11 > 0:54:15Helen Love, Superstar Disco Club, Strangelove...
0:54:15 > 0:54:18If we had a red button facility, that's an entire programme there,
0:54:18 > 0:54:22Josie goes through... Including Helen Love and the Period Pains!
0:54:22 > 0:54:25Sebadoh, Elliott Smith, Hefner, Quasi, that is a bill!
0:54:25 > 0:54:26LAUGHTER
0:54:26 > 0:54:29Alexis, what have you brought?
0:54:29 > 0:54:32I've brought in Be Here Now by Oasis.
0:54:32 > 0:54:34What, no Helen Love and the Period Pains?
0:54:34 > 0:54:38Alas, no. Is this my favourite album of the '90s? No.
0:54:38 > 0:54:43But if you want to know what Britain was like in 1997,
0:54:43 > 0:54:46a year where this country temporarily appeared
0:54:46 > 0:54:50to lose its mind in the wake of the death of Princess Diana,
0:54:50 > 0:54:52this is the album that soundtracks it.
0:54:52 > 0:54:58It's the sound of coked-up stupidity on a mammoth scale.
0:54:58 > 0:54:59Is it any good?
0:54:59 > 0:55:02It's perversely enjoyable, in a kind of gonzo way.
0:55:02 > 0:55:07But, just as a kind of, as an artefact of the '90s
0:55:07 > 0:55:12just sort of tipping over the edge into complete insanity.
0:55:12 > 0:55:13What's your memorabilia?
0:55:13 > 0:55:16It's just some stuff from the Heavenly Sunday Social,
0:55:16 > 0:55:19which was a club I went to when I first came to London.
0:55:19 > 0:55:22It used to be on a Sunday night, the Chemical Brothers -
0:55:22 > 0:55:25the Dust Brothers, they were then called - were the resident DJs.
0:55:25 > 0:55:28It was a sort of meeting point of dance music
0:55:28 > 0:55:33and the nascent Britpop scene. It felt like Swinging London.
0:55:33 > 0:55:36- That was the moment...- And you have Polaroids to prove it?
0:55:36 > 0:55:37- Absolutely.- Well done.
0:55:37 > 0:55:39That's one thing I could never get my head round.
0:55:39 > 0:55:41Louise?
0:55:41 > 0:55:43I've got Garbage, from 1995,
0:55:43 > 0:55:47and in the midst of Britpop which was all happy and positive and lovely,
0:55:47 > 0:55:49this was this dark album I absolutely loved.
0:55:49 > 0:55:51And I loved Shirley Manson,
0:55:51 > 0:55:54cos she seemed to be in a permanent state of premenstrual tension.
0:55:54 > 0:55:59She was constantly on day 26 of her cycle, which really appealed to me!
0:55:59 > 0:56:00It seems to be for both genders,
0:56:00 > 0:56:04comes with the territory being called Manson, one way or another.
0:56:04 > 0:56:08Great songs, they still stand up, I love the darkness of it
0:56:08 > 0:56:12- and the toughness of it. - Yeah. And as a piece of...?
0:56:12 > 0:56:16My memorabilia is this T-shirt, I felt like I wore it
0:56:16 > 0:56:20for the whole of 1995, it says "Another female-fronted band" on it
0:56:20 > 0:56:23because at the time, female-fronted bands were a thing
0:56:23 > 0:56:28to be put in a zoo to be looked at, "Ooh, girl with a guitar!"
0:56:28 > 0:56:30- It also smells of Britpop.- Does it?
0:56:30 > 0:56:35- Yeah. Chip shops, greyhounds, sugary tea.- Cocaine...
0:56:35 > 0:56:37Great T-shirt - I suspect even as this goes out,
0:56:37 > 0:56:41somebody is now manufacturing copies of that. That's brilliant.
0:56:41 > 0:56:44I've tried to keep the thread going through the programmes
0:56:44 > 0:56:45we've been doing.
0:56:45 > 0:56:48One band who seem to have come up in the '70s programme,
0:56:48 > 0:56:50the '80s and '90s programme
0:56:50 > 0:56:53and seen it out really well despite the demons they seem to fight
0:56:53 > 0:56:57is XTC. Not the most surprising of choices
0:56:57 > 0:56:59but it's about time we said, "Well done",
0:56:59 > 0:57:00because they are still with us.
0:57:00 > 0:57:04This is a pretty good album, it's psychedelia on an old format
0:57:04 > 0:57:06but it was recorded in the '90s
0:57:06 > 0:57:09and they are still pretty astounding.
0:57:09 > 0:57:12Hit after hit after hit, a very undervalued British band.
0:57:12 > 0:57:14Britpop even tipped the hat to them.
0:57:14 > 0:57:18But the memorabilia, again, straddles all the decades.
0:57:18 > 0:57:20This is David Bowie, of course,
0:57:20 > 0:57:22who we've had to try and bet without
0:57:22 > 0:57:24every time we've had a conversation here,
0:57:24 > 0:57:26so it's Bowie, '70s,
0:57:26 > 0:57:31and the film he made, on a format none more early '90s, the laserdisc.
0:57:31 > 0:57:35And after meeting virtually everybody in television and rock,
0:57:35 > 0:57:37I finally got to meet him on TFI Friday,
0:57:37 > 0:57:39which I worked on in the '90s
0:57:39 > 0:57:44and there it is. He signed it. "Bowie, '99".
0:57:44 > 0:57:47If you're going to encapsulate everything we've been talking about,
0:57:47 > 0:57:49you can do it in pretty much two words - David Bowie.
0:57:49 > 0:57:54Thank you very much for being with us - Louise, Alexis, Josie,
0:57:54 > 0:57:56it's been terrific. Thank you.
0:57:56 > 0:57:59We began this trilogy of programmes hoping to legitimise
0:57:59 > 0:58:02the often derided concept of decades.
0:58:02 > 0:58:06But in musical terms at least, you really can hear them.
0:58:06 > 0:58:08'20s - trad jazz, '40s - Glenn Miller and bebop.
0:58:08 > 0:58:10'50s, Elvis.
0:58:10 > 0:58:14In the three decades we've covered - bizarrely if conveniently,
0:58:14 > 0:58:18we've seen musical movements really do sometimes break down
0:58:18 > 0:58:21into neat ten-year segments, which brings us to today.
0:58:21 > 0:58:24What is rock music doing now? Well, listen.
0:58:25 > 0:58:27I can't hear a thing.
0:58:27 > 0:58:29Well, Mr Bowie?
0:58:29 > 0:58:31Well?
0:58:31 > 0:58:34# Look into my eyes he tells her
0:58:34 > 0:58:38# I'm gonna say goodbye he says yeah
0:58:38 > 0:58:43# Do not cry she begs of him goodbye yeah
0:58:43 > 0:58:46# All that day she thinks of his love yeah
0:58:46 > 0:58:50# They whip him through the streets and alleys there
0:58:50 > 0:58:54# The gormless and the baying crowd right there
0:58:54 > 0:58:57# They can't get enough of that doomsday song... #