0:00:02 > 0:00:04This programme contains strong language
0:00:04 > 0:00:06Katy Perry is one of the most successful singers on the planet,
0:00:06 > 0:00:08but she started out as a Christian rock act.
0:00:08 > 0:00:13# 8-9-9-3-8-3-3 Come on and listen to me... #
0:00:13 > 0:00:16It took years of developing and nurturing her talent
0:00:16 > 0:00:19before she became the star we know today,
0:00:19 > 0:00:21selling over 100 million records.
0:00:21 > 0:00:25# Baby, you're a firework
0:00:25 > 0:00:28# Come on Let your colours burst... #
0:00:28 > 0:00:30My name is Emma Banks,
0:00:30 > 0:00:33and Katy Perry is one of my biggest clients.
0:00:33 > 0:00:37I'm an award-winning music agent with over 25 years in the business.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39MUSIC: Give It Away by the Red Hot Chili Peppers
0:00:39 > 0:00:42I work with some of the world's most famous artists,
0:00:42 > 0:00:45like Kanye West and the Red Hot Chilli Peppers,
0:00:45 > 0:00:49but I'm still always on the lookout for the next generation of stars
0:00:49 > 0:00:51who want to break through to the big time.
0:00:51 > 0:00:52# When you ain't even brushed your teeth
0:00:52 > 0:00:54- # Brush your teeth - # Brush your teeth... #
0:00:54 > 0:00:55Woo!
0:00:55 > 0:00:56It's not easy.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59I know from experience it's a fine line
0:00:59 > 0:01:00between success and failure.
0:01:02 > 0:01:05# It reminds me of the pain... #
0:01:05 > 0:01:08I've seen countless acts come and go,
0:01:08 > 0:01:11from geniuses who never quite made it...
0:01:13 > 0:01:16..to megastars who conquered the world.
0:01:16 > 0:01:18# I want to hide... #
0:01:18 > 0:01:22This series reveals the secrets behind a successful music career.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25# I want to tear down the walls that hold me inside... #
0:01:27 > 0:01:31How the world of live performance built reputations, making billions
0:01:31 > 0:01:34and transforming the industry along the way.
0:01:34 > 0:01:38# One way or another I'm gonna lose ya... #
0:01:38 > 0:01:40And how the rise of the reunion is giving the bands
0:01:40 > 0:01:43and the business a new lease of life.
0:01:43 > 0:01:45# I'll trick ya, I'll trick ya... #
0:01:45 > 0:01:47MUSIC: Just Because by Jane's Addiction
0:01:47 > 0:01:49But first, I'm going right back to the start -
0:01:49 > 0:01:52how we find talent and turn it into hit records.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56It was really vital
0:01:56 > 0:02:00having somebody there telling us we were crap, the whole time,
0:02:00 > 0:02:02and we used to have massive rows.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05We were trained. We were taught show business.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09We knew exactly what we needed to do and say for our audiences.
0:02:09 > 0:02:13I felt like I was red meat to them, like, you know, like, "Oh!
0:02:13 > 0:02:16"I'm going to make so much fucking money with this guy," you know?
0:02:16 > 0:02:18# When we first met... #
0:02:18 > 0:02:22Welcome to my guide to how the music industry discovers,
0:02:22 > 0:02:25develops, and launches superstars.
0:02:34 > 0:02:37# Don't have the time to agree... #
0:02:37 > 0:02:40- NEWSREEL REPORTER:- To get to the top in the pop business,
0:02:40 > 0:02:42you need more than sex appeal and a song to sing -
0:02:42 > 0:02:45or so the people in the business would have us believe.
0:02:45 > 0:02:47Making a star is a team effort.
0:02:47 > 0:02:51There are managers, producers, PRs and image consultants -
0:02:51 > 0:02:56a whole army of people who make crucial decisions on songs,
0:02:56 > 0:02:57sounds and looks.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03I work on the artists' live performance,
0:03:03 > 0:03:06and put them in front of audiences that will get them the most noticed.
0:03:08 > 0:03:10My latest signing is Stereo Honey.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15I mean, I guess, like, a live agent is like your window
0:03:15 > 0:03:18to the world of gigging, basically.
0:03:18 > 0:03:23A good live agent knows venues that suit a certain band, you know,
0:03:23 > 0:03:26and they have, like, the contacts there that they can draw from.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30Every band that does well has a great team behind them,
0:03:30 > 0:03:33and I think a live agent's, like, an essential part of that.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36There's already a huge buzz around Stereo Honey,
0:03:36 > 0:03:39and I've got big hopes for these guys.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42But you've got to find these artists in the first place,
0:03:42 > 0:03:45and that's down to A&R.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50A&R, the development of new music and new talent,
0:03:50 > 0:03:51is absolutely crucial.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54If we don't have that, we have no music business.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57The job of A&R is the expression A&R itself.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01The A stands for "artist", R stands for "repertoire".
0:04:01 > 0:04:06To trust that instinct and look for the stars of tomorrow.
0:04:06 > 0:04:11The gift of A&R is a gift, like being a classical violinist
0:04:11 > 0:04:13or a great rock singer.
0:04:13 > 0:04:14It's a gift.
0:04:14 > 0:04:21Find the artists, find the writers, the producers, the musicians -
0:04:21 > 0:04:24put them together and make hit records.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29Of course, A&R hasn't always had the best reputation.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34I think, yeah, a lot of people have that Kit Kat advert imagery.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36"You can't sing, you can't play."
0:04:36 > 0:04:40- What do you think?- You can't sing, you can't play, you look awful.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44- You'll go a long way.- All right!
0:04:47 > 0:04:49But it's not as easy as that.
0:04:49 > 0:04:52Finding the talent in the first place is a tough job,
0:04:52 > 0:04:54and artists can be a tricky bunch.
0:04:54 > 0:04:57The honest truth is... God makes musicians,
0:04:57 > 0:05:00and then an A&R guy is just standing around going,
0:05:00 > 0:05:01"There's one, there's one."
0:05:01 > 0:05:04An A&R is a businessman who tells an artist what to do.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06Why are you telling another man how to sing or rap?
0:05:06 > 0:05:09You rap, you sing, if you're so good at it.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12There's also a serious financial risk.
0:05:13 > 0:05:19Of all the music made, 10% is successful and 5% makes money.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22And if you're associated with some of the failures,
0:05:22 > 0:05:26then your career is probably quite short.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32For me, out of the whole of pop music history,
0:05:32 > 0:05:35there's one record label that stands above all others at finding
0:05:35 > 0:05:38and creating stars - Motown.
0:05:40 > 0:05:43The Detroit label churned out hit after hit
0:05:43 > 0:05:46with an incredible roster of artists
0:05:46 > 0:05:47and the killer songs to match.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50And it was their A&R process that was responsible.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55# Sugar and Spice
0:05:55 > 0:05:56# Sugar and Spice
0:05:56 > 0:05:58# Everything nice
0:05:58 > 0:06:00# Everything nice... #
0:06:00 > 0:06:03It was the brainchild of car factory worker Berry Gordy,
0:06:03 > 0:06:06who had the vision to take what he called quality black music
0:06:06 > 0:06:08to the whole of America.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10Berry was the first person to critique us.
0:06:10 > 0:06:14He would tell us what was good and what was not. We were trained.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18We knew exactly what we needed to do and say for our audiences.
0:06:18 > 0:06:22# Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide... #
0:06:22 > 0:06:26Their A&R system really was competition.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29You know, "You've got to come up with the goods."
0:06:29 > 0:06:34So, that was, like, an amazing A&R, sort of, like, factory.
0:06:34 > 0:06:36# Baby, baby
0:06:36 > 0:06:39# Baby, don't leave me... #
0:06:39 > 0:06:42While Berry Gordy was clearly the driving force behind Motown,
0:06:42 > 0:06:46his right-hand man helping pick those hits was his head of A&R,
0:06:46 > 0:06:47Mickey Stevenson.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52Mickey met Berry for the first time in 1959.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54My idea was to get with him
0:06:54 > 0:06:57and become an artist produced by Berry Gordy.
0:06:57 > 0:07:02His idea was to have me become the A&R man for his company.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05So, we're on two different planes when we met.
0:07:06 > 0:07:11So, I pulled out about six or seven of my kind of wannabe songs, right.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14And I sang them and he said, "Wait, hold on, hold on.
0:07:14 > 0:07:16"I didn't call you here to be a recording artist."
0:07:16 > 0:07:19I said, "What do you mean? I thought you liked my songs."
0:07:19 > 0:07:22He said, "Your songs are pretty good, but your voice is for shit."
0:07:22 > 0:07:23HE LAUGHS
0:07:24 > 0:07:28He said, "Well, I want you to be the A&R man for my company."
0:07:28 > 0:07:30I said, "A&R, what's that?"
0:07:30 > 0:07:33He said, "You know, you're going to handle the artist,
0:07:33 > 0:07:35"and we're going to make records."
0:07:35 > 0:07:38Mickey's first job was to search for talent.
0:07:38 > 0:07:43In the early 1960s, he began holding regular auditions at Motown HQ.
0:07:43 > 0:07:46People were there every day, lined up,
0:07:46 > 0:07:48hoping to just get a chance to get in the building.
0:07:48 > 0:07:53Everybody wanted to be a part of this new record company
0:07:53 > 0:07:55in Detroit on the Boulevard.
0:07:55 > 0:08:00# I never met a girl who makes me feel the way that you do
0:08:00 > 0:08:02# You're all right
0:08:02 > 0:08:06# Whenever I'm asked who makes my dreams real... #
0:08:06 > 0:08:09The A&R process became like a musical finishing school,
0:08:09 > 0:08:14paying close attention to every aspect of the artist's act.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17Singing is one thing. Performing is another.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20# And I'm bringing you a love that's true
0:08:20 > 0:08:24# So get ready, so get ready... #
0:08:24 > 0:08:25The choreographer,
0:08:25 > 0:08:29they would show them how to move, what they do with their hands,
0:08:29 > 0:08:31how to make that look good.
0:08:31 > 0:08:34# Get ready, cos here I come
0:08:34 > 0:08:35# I'm on my way... #
0:08:35 > 0:08:40We had rules and standards. We were not ever scantily dressed.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43We were always in uniform.
0:08:43 > 0:08:44# It's all right... #
0:08:44 > 0:08:48We had someone who always travelled with us to make sure
0:08:48 > 0:08:51that we were on time and dressed properly.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53We were learning music theory.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56We were learning choreography from Charlie Atkins,
0:08:56 > 0:09:00and we were getting social graces being taught to us
0:09:00 > 0:09:01by Professor Maxine Powell.
0:09:01 > 0:09:05"Ladies, you don't dance with your buttocks.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08"You use your feet, and the body will follow."
0:09:08 > 0:09:10# I'm bringing you a love that's true
0:09:10 > 0:09:11# So get ready... #
0:09:11 > 0:09:13My theory was this -
0:09:13 > 0:09:15if you have a record and you don't look right
0:09:15 > 0:09:18presenting it, it dies quick.
0:09:18 > 0:09:21You don't have to have such a great record but you look good doing it,
0:09:21 > 0:09:22it's taking off.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25Now, if the record is good and you look good doing it,
0:09:25 > 0:09:26it's going all the way.
0:09:26 > 0:09:30# Calling out around the world
0:09:30 > 0:09:33# Are you ready for a brand-new beat? #
0:09:33 > 0:09:38Key to Motown's success was Mickey's ability to match the right song
0:09:38 > 0:09:39with the right artist.
0:09:39 > 0:09:41# Dancing in the street... #
0:09:41 > 0:09:44Dancing In The Street would become one of the label's biggest hits.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47Written by Mickey, Marvin Gaye and Ivy Jo,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50the writing team had originally promised the song
0:09:50 > 0:09:53to Motown star Kim Weston - Mickey's wife at the time.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58It's a fun song, and Kim had this strong voice.
0:09:58 > 0:09:59So, we got to have some joy in it,
0:09:59 > 0:10:03so I'll get somebody to sing it and then she'll copy that,
0:10:03 > 0:10:06listen to that track, and repeat it.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09And, "Who?" And I said,
0:10:09 > 0:10:11"Got just the person."
0:10:11 > 0:10:14Mickey fetched aspiring singer Martha Reeves,
0:10:14 > 0:10:16who by then was working as his secretary.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19So I asked him - could I sing it the way I felt it,
0:10:19 > 0:10:20and he said, "Sure, go ahead."
0:10:20 > 0:10:22It was the same key that Marvin was singing in.
0:10:22 > 0:10:23So, I piped in...
0:10:23 > 0:10:25# Calling out around the world. #
0:10:25 > 0:10:28She sang the tune.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30Marvin looked at me.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32Ivy Jo looked at Marvin.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34We stand there looking at each other.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37"Did you hear that? That's a hit record on Martha."
0:10:37 > 0:10:40When you hear something like that happen, as an A&R man,
0:10:40 > 0:10:42that's what it's really all about.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45I mean, that was like, "Wow!" That marriage was perfect.
0:10:45 > 0:10:48# There'll be swinging, swaying and records playing
0:10:48 > 0:10:51# Dancing in the street, oh... #
0:10:51 > 0:10:54Mickey had some explaining to do to his wife.
0:10:54 > 0:10:56Of course, I had to talk Kim out of it.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58Not talk her out of it, but kind of figure how to get it away from her
0:10:58 > 0:11:01to give it to Martha, because we were lovers.
0:11:01 > 0:11:04Kim and I almost had a take off your earrings
0:11:04 > 0:11:07and get your Vaseline and scratch each other's eyes out fit.
0:11:07 > 0:11:08We almost had that.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11Of course, my love was cut off dead after that.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13HE LAUGHS
0:11:13 > 0:11:16Oh, that was cold for a while, brother.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18Everything was cut off. I couldn't even get a kiss.
0:11:18 > 0:11:21HE LAUGHS
0:11:21 > 0:11:24Motown showed the music business that having the whole package
0:11:24 > 0:11:29makes a successful star - the look, the moves, and the sound.
0:11:29 > 0:11:31But it's also about finding the right song
0:11:31 > 0:11:33for the right artist.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35You've got an idea for a song, haven't you?
0:11:35 > 0:11:38- You've got something in mind? - Yeah, I have a fantastic song.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41- Mm. I've heard it, actually. I've heard one of them.- Fantastic.
0:11:41 > 0:11:43I think you'll like it, Judith. I really do.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47# Here's the thing We started out friends
0:11:47 > 0:11:51# It was cool but it was all pretend... #
0:11:51 > 0:11:52For us lot in the industry,
0:11:52 > 0:11:56there's one person who's the absolute master at that -
0:11:56 > 0:11:58legendary record exec Clive Davis.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01# Here me say it's how... #
0:12:01 > 0:12:04He's spent five decades making superstars
0:12:04 > 0:12:08out of the likes of Whitney Houston, Barry Manilow and Kelly Clarkson.
0:12:08 > 0:12:12# Since you've been gone
0:12:12 > 0:12:15# I can breathe for the first time... #
0:12:15 > 0:12:18When you're looking for what they call a hit,
0:12:18 > 0:12:20you're looking for that song -
0:12:20 > 0:12:25the combination of melody and lyric that becomes something
0:12:25 > 0:12:27you can't get out of your head.
0:12:27 > 0:12:28# Oh, Mandy
0:12:28 > 0:12:33# Well, you came and you gave without taking
0:12:33 > 0:12:37# But I sent you away Oh, Mandy... #
0:12:37 > 0:12:39I'm not talking about just a hit record,
0:12:39 > 0:12:42but talking about what it is to discover a standard,
0:12:42 > 0:12:45what it is to discover a song
0:12:45 > 0:12:47that will live on for hundreds of years
0:12:47 > 0:12:49in the future.
0:12:49 > 0:12:53And usually it is the combination of music and lyric
0:12:53 > 0:12:55that becomes unforgettable.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01# Clock strikes upon the hour
0:13:01 > 0:13:06# And the sun begins to fade... #
0:13:06 > 0:13:08Clive Davis knew he had an amazing talent
0:13:08 > 0:13:10when he signed Whitney Houston,
0:13:10 > 0:13:14but he also knew it would take a great song to break her.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17It was a two-year period to look for Whitney Houston's
0:13:17 > 0:13:19I Want To Dance With Somebody.
0:13:19 > 0:13:24I would go through with my A&R staff literally hundreds of songs
0:13:24 > 0:13:28to narrow it down to about 20 or 25
0:13:28 > 0:13:30that we felt were the right arrangement.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33# I wanna dance with somebody
0:13:33 > 0:13:36# I wanna feel the heat with somebody... #
0:13:36 > 0:13:37Whatever the era,
0:13:37 > 0:13:41a huge-selling star like Whitney can be the commercial driving force
0:13:41 > 0:13:44behind any successful record company.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51But persuading the artist to sign in the first place,
0:13:51 > 0:13:52can be a big challenge.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57When you're at a gig, after the show,
0:13:57 > 0:13:59often when you're at the signing point,
0:13:59 > 0:14:00these are in very small rooms.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04There isn't a backstage, so the act comes out to you.
0:14:04 > 0:14:08Everybody will get in their face, tell them how brilliant they were,
0:14:08 > 0:14:11even if they thought there's loads of work to be done.
0:14:11 > 0:14:14And it's a little bit like a documentary
0:14:14 > 0:14:18where there are all the tigers around the gazelle,
0:14:18 > 0:14:20desperate to eat them.
0:14:20 > 0:14:23Certainly, it's how it used to be, sometimes, with the signing frenzy.
0:14:27 > 0:14:29One, two, three, four!
0:14:32 > 0:14:37The music industry, if you're a good musician, they will chase you.
0:14:37 > 0:14:42As an example, the days where people were A&Ring Jane's Addiction,
0:14:42 > 0:14:46we had every record label, every A&R guy in town was there
0:14:46 > 0:14:48for me to ridicule.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51I was calling them all fat pricks, you know.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53Cos, like, yeah, they were fat pricks.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55They would show up and they were like, "Oh!
0:14:55 > 0:14:59"I'm going to make so much fucking money with this guy," you know?
0:14:59 > 0:15:01I felt like I was red meat to them.
0:15:01 > 0:15:05# I don't owe him nothing... #
0:15:05 > 0:15:07And some of them were so full of shit, you know?
0:15:07 > 0:15:09Like, "Yeah! Sit down, I'm going to sign you.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12"Whatever anybody offers you, I'm going to offer you twice."
0:15:12 > 0:15:16And then I think to myself, like, man, "I wouldn't fucking go with it,
0:15:16 > 0:15:20"cos you look like a scumbag," you know what I mean?
0:15:20 > 0:15:22Like a douchebag. There's no way.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25MUSIC: Don't Look Back Into The Sun by The Libertines
0:15:28 > 0:15:30We'd put in a big offer for The Libertines,
0:15:30 > 0:15:33and no-one had really seen them perform, but everyone had heard,
0:15:33 > 0:15:35oh, they're like, you know,
0:15:35 > 0:15:38this incredible British rock and roll band.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41# And they said it would never come for you... #
0:15:41 > 0:15:44So, everybody was turning up to see them perform at The Cherry Jam,
0:15:44 > 0:15:47which was a venue that could hold about 100 people comfortably,
0:15:47 > 0:15:50and there must have been about 300 people outside,
0:15:50 > 0:15:52of whom a lot were A&R people.
0:15:52 > 0:15:56And I remember managing to get there early enough so I got inside.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59And I'd got a couple of friends of mine to turn up
0:15:59 > 0:16:00and pretend to be other A&R people,
0:16:00 > 0:16:03so they could cross their names off the guest list,
0:16:03 > 0:16:05so when the actual A&R person turned up,
0:16:05 > 0:16:07they couldn't get in cos it was already sold out.
0:16:07 > 0:16:09I mean, I'm not proud of these things,
0:16:09 > 0:16:12but, you know, sometimes necessity has to happen
0:16:12 > 0:16:14because it does get that competitive.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17MUSIC: I'll Manage Somehow by Menswear
0:16:17 > 0:16:19Throughout pop music history,
0:16:19 > 0:16:21A&Rs have pulled all sorts of tricks to snare
0:16:21 > 0:16:23the artist or band to their label.
0:16:23 > 0:16:26# Catch the bus by half past three
0:16:26 > 0:16:29# Otherwise you'll find you're walking home
0:16:29 > 0:16:32# The forecast is for rain... #
0:16:32 > 0:16:37In 1994, Menswear were Britpop's hottest new property.
0:16:37 > 0:16:38Before we got signed,
0:16:38 > 0:16:41two big, major labels flew us out to New York,
0:16:41 > 0:16:43flew the whole band out all expenses paid -
0:16:43 > 0:16:46limos, first-class flights, amazing hotels -
0:16:46 > 0:16:47just to kind of woo us,
0:16:47 > 0:16:50to show us that they were the label, to go with them.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53It was like, the more money they could throw at you, the better label it was.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55And weirdly, when we were out in New York,
0:16:55 > 0:16:57we had a meeting with Geoff Travis, who was the head of -
0:16:57 > 0:17:00still, I believe, is head of Rough Trade. Fantastic man,
0:17:00 > 0:17:02responsible for the careers of people like The Smiths
0:17:02 > 0:17:03and The Strokes.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06And he met us in a little pizza restaurant.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08"You know, you should really come with Rough Trade.
0:17:08 > 0:17:12"We're the kind of label that splits everything between the artist
0:17:12 > 0:17:14"and the label, we've got a great track record."
0:17:14 > 0:17:15And we walked away thinking,
0:17:15 > 0:17:17"He's just taken us to a pizza restaurant.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20"A bit tight. We won't sign with him, they've got no money."
0:17:20 > 0:17:21And you look back and think,
0:17:21 > 0:17:24"Why did we go with the labels that were just throwing money at us?"
0:17:24 > 0:17:27And also, you end up paying, anyway. So just taking... You know,
0:17:27 > 0:17:30just for a little pizza in a little low-key place
0:17:30 > 0:17:32is the smart thing to do.
0:17:32 > 0:17:34# Breathe deeper
0:17:34 > 0:17:35# Daydreamer... #
0:17:35 > 0:17:38We could have gone with Rough Trade. What a stupid thing to do.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41A brilliant label, fantastic label. "Nah, they didn't spend any money.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43"They didn't spunk any money up the wall on us.
0:17:43 > 0:17:45"We're not going to go with them." Idiots.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49- NEWSREEL REPORTER:- Before anybody will do anything to make her a star,
0:17:49 > 0:17:50Judith, with her father's endorsement,
0:17:50 > 0:17:53must sign away what amounts to almost half of anything
0:17:53 > 0:17:54she's likely to earn.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57I remember having to go to a lawyer's office
0:17:57 > 0:18:00to talk about this contract, and it was, like, this thick.
0:18:02 > 0:18:04And the legal bill...
0:18:04 > 0:18:07..was so massive that it swallowed up the entire advance.
0:18:07 > 0:18:11I think... I think I'm still in that deal now, actually.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14Still in that same deal now. You know, I was, like, 19 then.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16I think everyone dreamed of getting signed
0:18:16 > 0:18:19but nobody really knew what it meant.
0:18:19 > 0:18:22"And any extra money expended shall be at the artist's own expense
0:18:22 > 0:18:24"and the manager shall be at liberty to deduct from monies held
0:18:24 > 0:18:26"or received on behalf of the artist
0:18:26 > 0:18:28"the amount of any such extra money so expended,
0:18:28 > 0:18:30"but the manager shall consult with the artist
0:18:30 > 0:18:33"before incurring unusually expensive obligations."
0:18:33 > 0:18:34- In effect...- Oh, slower! - LAUGHTER
0:18:34 > 0:18:36This is what it means.
0:18:36 > 0:18:3875%.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41Signing a big record contract is every aspiring rock star's dream.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43The stepping stone to the big time.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46We've all heard about the megabucks deals,
0:18:46 > 0:18:49but is it really as good as it sounds?
0:18:49 > 0:18:51So, if you get a £1 million advance,
0:18:51 > 0:18:53more than likely you have to make the record out of that.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55Let's say the record costs £200,000, OK?
0:18:55 > 0:18:58You know, that part of it is the fun.
0:18:58 > 0:18:59Now you have £800,000.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02Well, the management takes between 15-20%.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05You might have a lawyer that has a fee for negotiating.
0:19:05 > 0:19:06Your business manager takes some.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09So, let's say you're then down to, what, £600,000?
0:19:09 > 0:19:13In a rock band it's a four or five, sometimes even six-way split.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15You divide it up five ways.
0:19:15 > 0:19:19That's £120,000 per guy. The tax guy takes half of it.
0:19:19 > 0:19:20There's your £60,000.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24I mean, it's OK. It may be better than your dad did in a year.
0:19:24 > 0:19:26It's a year.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30That's it. Then we're back to square one.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33You know, it's not as lucrative as people think.
0:19:33 > 0:19:35I think you'd like to get a look at Judith.
0:19:35 > 0:19:38Judith, come on up here. Judith Powell.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40Assuming you've managed to get your artist to sign a contract,
0:19:40 > 0:19:42the next stage is the launch.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45Nobody can say for sure what's going to be a hit record.
0:19:46 > 0:19:48If we all knew what was going to be a hit record,
0:19:48 > 0:19:50we wouldn't have to worry. All we'd have to do is just say,
0:19:50 > 0:19:52"Well, that's going to be a hit record,
0:19:52 > 0:19:54"put all your money on it." And it would make it.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59My role in a new artist's launch is getting them in front of the
0:19:59 > 0:20:01right audience at the right time.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09One of my recent signings is urban artist Lady Leshurr.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12She's made a huge splash online,
0:20:12 > 0:20:15releasing several videos that have hit over 100 million plays.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18# ..love to do that pose?
0:20:18 > 0:20:20# Are they your new trainers?
0:20:20 > 0:20:22# What are those?! #
0:20:22 > 0:20:25She's big in the grime world, and we're currently working to
0:20:25 > 0:20:27successfully launch her into the mainstream.
0:20:27 > 0:20:31We find, don't we, a lot of the British grime artists, maybe, are
0:20:31 > 0:20:36- enormous in the UK?- Yeah.- But they're struggling to get anything
0:20:36 > 0:20:39going as soon as they leave our beautiful country.
0:20:39 > 0:20:42Emma got me on the shows that were comfortable for me,
0:20:42 > 0:20:43as far as the urban shows.
0:20:43 > 0:20:47But now she's putting me on these other shows that are out of my
0:20:47 > 0:20:50comfort zone, or not my genre of music, which is just
0:20:50 > 0:20:53going to help build the brand and what we're trying to do.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59Because of my live touring connections, I can put
0:20:59 > 0:21:03breaking artists in support slots with international stars.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06It gives them huge exposure that they wouldn't normally get.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09I've arranged for Lady Leshurr to support Red Hot Chilli Peppers
0:21:09 > 0:21:11in Dublin.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14I think what's really important is that you play your own shows
0:21:14 > 0:21:17to your crowd, and then we put in these bigger shows
0:21:17 > 0:21:20where you're going to when the crowd over, you know.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23Definitely, I think that to get to the next level is to do things
0:21:23 > 0:21:26like this. I just think, to keep putting myself into
0:21:26 > 0:21:30those kind of markets and making people that don't really listen
0:21:30 > 0:21:34to grime, to listen to it, and see if they like it.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36They may never have even come across it before.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41Well, this girl is great, you know.
0:21:41 > 0:21:43She's fabulous, Doug, yeah, she really is.
0:21:43 > 0:21:46Yeah, she's got long blonde hair and gorgeous eyes.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48She's very, very tall.
0:21:49 > 0:21:52Like all businesses, the music industry can be as much
0:21:52 > 0:21:55about marketing as talent, so the launch is critical.
0:21:55 > 0:21:57I'd like to split her publicity, actually, in about three...
0:21:57 > 0:22:00Today, getting a band noticed is all about creating a buzz
0:22:00 > 0:22:04on social media and the internet. When I started in the 1990s,
0:22:04 > 0:22:07that kind of thing had to be done on a street level.
0:22:09 > 0:22:13Early in my career, I helped to break the supremely gifted
0:22:13 > 0:22:14singer-songwriter Jeff Buckley.
0:22:14 > 0:22:18# When I next saw you
0:22:22 > 0:22:26# You were at the party... #
0:22:27 > 0:22:29Back then, it was the height of grunge,
0:22:29 > 0:22:32and Jeff's wistful songs weren't an easy sell,
0:22:32 > 0:22:37and he wasn't always on message with the record label's promo plan.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39SHOUTS FROM CROWD
0:22:39 > 0:22:41Fuck off, just fuck off!
0:22:44 > 0:22:47He had a quality of rebelliousness about him
0:22:47 > 0:22:52that the label couldn't really break down in any way.
0:22:52 > 0:22:56He was determined to try and do it his way as best he could.
0:22:56 > 0:23:00Look, he was Jeff, and he was like, "I'm going to subvert
0:23:00 > 0:23:03"the pop paradigm, and fuck with my pop image".
0:23:03 > 0:23:07# There's the moon asking to stay
0:23:08 > 0:23:12# Long enough for the clouds to fly away. #
0:23:13 > 0:23:16The label, Sony, at the time,
0:23:16 > 0:23:20were very dubious as to what they could do,
0:23:20 > 0:23:23that they didn't hear something that was easily going to get onto radio,
0:23:23 > 0:23:27and if you don't get onto radio, how do you break an artist?
0:23:27 > 0:23:30So what does a record company do when they've got a genius
0:23:30 > 0:23:32on their hands, but don't know how to market him?
0:23:34 > 0:23:36Well, Shepherd's Bush Empire.
0:23:37 > 0:23:42This was the last London venue that Jeff Buckley played.
0:23:42 > 0:23:46This, I think, is what made his world turn,
0:23:46 > 0:23:51being on stage, performing. That was his lifeblood.
0:23:51 > 0:23:55You know, it was my job over the years that I worked with Jeff to
0:23:55 > 0:23:59get him to this point. He didn't always play 2,000-capacity venues.
0:23:59 > 0:24:00That's for sure.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06Jeff's American sales were way under the record label's expectations,
0:24:06 > 0:24:08and they were seriously worried.
0:24:08 > 0:24:12They decided to try and break him in Britain, and asked me to help.
0:24:12 > 0:24:17I felt you only really got Jeff when you saw him up close and personal...
0:24:17 > 0:24:18This must be it.
0:24:18 > 0:24:22..so I decided to find tiny venues for him to play intimate solo shows.
0:24:22 > 0:24:26It was downstairs. Let's see if we can find something.
0:24:26 > 0:24:30One of the most memorable was at Bunjies, near Leicester Square.
0:24:30 > 0:24:31It's now a restaurant.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33Oh, my God. This is it.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36It's so much smaller than I remember it.
0:24:38 > 0:24:41I think we must have had about 40 people in here.
0:24:41 > 0:24:45We can't have got... It would be impossible to get many more in.
0:24:45 > 0:24:48He said he wanted to play small venues. And when he said small,
0:24:48 > 0:24:50I thought, "All right, mate, I'll give you small".
0:24:52 > 0:24:55Word of mouth spread like you would not believe. When I went outside,
0:24:55 > 0:24:59I saw a line for blocks of people trying to get in.
0:24:59 > 0:25:01And I came in and I saw his agent, Emma Banks.
0:25:01 > 0:25:03I said, "This is crazy."
0:25:03 > 0:25:06Everybody, if they weren't there, they wanted to be there,
0:25:06 > 0:25:09and half the people pretended they WERE there.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11And that got a word of mouth going.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14You know, when we weren't getting lots of radio play,
0:25:14 > 0:25:17people talking about it - going, "Did you go to that show?"
0:25:17 > 0:25:19"Oh, no, but I heard it was amazing."
0:25:19 > 0:25:20- was really important to us.
0:25:22 > 0:25:26From those small UK gigs, a huge buzz built up around Jeff.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29There was praise from big rock stars like Paul McCartney,
0:25:29 > 0:25:32radio and TV got on board, and sales really picked up.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37# Just the moon asking to stay
0:25:38 > 0:25:42# Long enough for the clouds to fly me away... #
0:25:44 > 0:25:47I think he would have been a huge star, but not long later,
0:25:47 > 0:25:50Jeff tragically died in a drowning accident.
0:25:50 > 0:25:56Today, he's regarded as one of pop's greatest songwriters.
0:25:56 > 0:26:02# My fading voice sings of love... #
0:26:05 > 0:26:10Jeff's story showed me that talent is just part of making it big.
0:26:10 > 0:26:14To be truly successful, you also need a great backroom team.
0:26:20 > 0:26:23The '60s was a time when there was a flood of talent, and the managers
0:26:23 > 0:26:26who controlled them were nearly as famous as the artists.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31Industry players like Brian Epstein were brilliant at marketing
0:26:31 > 0:26:36their stars, but not all the artists back then were so lucky.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39# Well, no-one told me about her... #
0:26:40 > 0:26:44The Zombies are mentioned in the same breath as The Beatles today,
0:26:44 > 0:26:47but back then, thanks to some bad backroom decisions,
0:26:47 > 0:26:50they didn't have anywhere near the same success.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53# But it's too late to say you're sorry
0:26:53 > 0:26:56# How would I know? Why should I care? #
0:26:56 > 0:27:00They started off well when they hit the number-12 spot in 1964
0:27:00 > 0:27:03with one of the first songs they ever recorded.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06# Well, let me tell you 'bout the way she looked
0:27:06 > 0:27:10# The way she acts and the colour of her hair
0:27:10 > 0:27:14# Her voice was soft and cool, her eyes were clear and bright
0:27:14 > 0:27:17# But she's not there. #
0:27:17 > 0:27:20A long, successful career surely beckoned.
0:27:20 > 0:27:23The second record, that was rushed out,
0:27:23 > 0:27:25none of us wanted that to come out at all.
0:27:25 > 0:27:28We thought it sounded pretty wet, actually,
0:27:28 > 0:27:29and it flopped completely.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32# ..I'm missing her
0:27:32 > 0:27:35# My mind tells me I have to fight... #
0:27:35 > 0:27:39There was always incredible pressure from record companies in those days,
0:27:39 > 0:27:41that they wanted a single every six weeks.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44- Yeah.- But, of course, they wanted it to be a hit single.
0:27:44 > 0:27:50So you were really pressured to keep supplying them with singles.
0:27:50 > 0:27:54And it's very hard to make every single a hit, you know.
0:27:54 > 0:27:57There's very few bands that were able to do that.
0:27:57 > 0:28:01After an incredible 13 further single releases in four years,
0:28:01 > 0:28:04the band failed to enter the UK charts again.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07We had a manager who was very successful,
0:28:07 > 0:28:09but he was from an old school.
0:28:10 > 0:28:14And, unlike Andrew Loog Oldham for the Stones or Epstein, who did such
0:28:14 > 0:28:20a wonderful job for The Beatles, they understood what the image
0:28:20 > 0:28:24that was launched onto the public initially should be.
0:28:24 > 0:28:30And I don't think that our management took much notice of that,
0:28:30 > 0:28:34because they didn't particularly love rock and roll.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37And I think we really suffered from that because we were just
0:28:37 > 0:28:41out of school and we had some appalling early photos
0:28:41 > 0:28:43that followed us down the years.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45That was the sort of management decision,
0:28:45 > 0:28:47and the production decision,
0:28:47 > 0:28:52that often was a bit rushed and not rooted in what rock and roll was,
0:28:52 > 0:28:54and understanding how things should be
0:28:54 > 0:28:56and what a good follow-up would be.
0:28:56 > 0:29:02# Counting the days until they set you free again... #
0:29:02 > 0:29:06The Zombies recorded a final album, Odessey And Oracle, a record
0:29:06 > 0:29:10that many critics now consider as good as Sergeant Pepper's
0:29:10 > 0:29:12and Pet Sounds. It's that good.
0:29:13 > 0:29:15But at the time, the album bombed.
0:29:17 > 0:29:19If this band's career had been properly managed,
0:29:19 > 0:29:23who knows what further classics they would have gone on to record?
0:29:26 > 0:29:28Before the album was even released, the band split.
0:29:28 > 0:29:31We all had to get jobs. We didn't have any choice.
0:29:31 > 0:29:34I thought about it very scientifically and very deeply.
0:29:34 > 0:29:35And I got on the phone,
0:29:35 > 0:29:38and I took the first job that was offered to me.
0:29:38 > 0:29:42It was in... Oh, it was in insurance.
0:29:43 > 0:29:46SHE SINGS POORLY
0:29:46 > 0:29:49Hold on, hold on, wait.
0:29:49 > 0:29:50Honey, you're lovely,
0:29:50 > 0:29:53but you're never going to sell records by being that beautiful.
0:29:53 > 0:29:57Look... Gary, give me a chord, would you?
0:29:57 > 0:30:00Try to do it this way, will you?
0:30:00 > 0:30:02# As I write this letter... #
0:30:02 > 0:30:04Tell me the story.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07I've lost count of the acts who've had superstar potential,
0:30:07 > 0:30:10but bad decisions stopped them going all the way.
0:30:10 > 0:30:14Even the ones that really know what they want, need help to make it.
0:30:14 > 0:30:17# ..Cos my mind... #
0:30:17 > 0:30:18Tell me the story.
0:30:18 > 0:30:21I have to sit there and say, "It's not good enough," when in fact,
0:30:21 > 0:30:24what ends up happening is they go back and write more songs.
0:30:24 > 0:30:26Or maybe at a certain point they sit there and say,
0:30:26 > 0:30:28"We love these songs." We go, "Great, you'd better find some other
0:30:28 > 0:30:31"manager that loves them as much as you do because, you know,
0:30:31 > 0:30:34"it's not going to work." People say, "That's a good record."
0:30:34 > 0:30:36That's not good enough. "That's a very good record."
0:30:36 > 0:30:38That's not good enough. "That's a really good record".
0:30:38 > 0:30:41Uh-uh. It's got to be great. It's got to be great.
0:30:41 > 0:30:44# You're taking the fun out of everything... #
0:30:46 > 0:30:50When it comes to hit making, the business side often has some very
0:30:50 > 0:30:52difficult conversations with the creative side.
0:30:54 > 0:30:58Blur charted at number eight with their second-ever single.
0:30:58 > 0:31:02# There's no other way, there's no other way,
0:31:02 > 0:31:05# All that you can do is watch them play. #
0:31:07 > 0:31:09I suppose There's No Other Way was a pretty big hit.
0:31:09 > 0:31:11You know, I still hear it on the radio now.
0:31:11 > 0:31:15Kind of had elements of baggy - the baggy sound.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18Which was something, by the time we'd put our next record out,
0:31:18 > 0:31:20that was kind of done and dusted.
0:31:20 > 0:31:23# Bang goes another year, in and out of one ear
0:31:23 > 0:31:28# Everybody's doing it, I'll do it too. #
0:31:28 > 0:31:31Their debut album didn't produce any more hits, and their record label
0:31:31 > 0:31:35were concerned the follow-up was going the same way.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38They came in to record the second album,
0:31:38 > 0:31:41probably recorded about 30 songs.
0:31:41 > 0:31:44But they didn't have the two key singles that they needed.
0:31:45 > 0:31:49Yeah, we nearly got dropped recording Modern Life Is Rubbish.
0:31:49 > 0:31:52"Give us a hit or we're going to drop you."
0:31:52 > 0:31:55I mean, I think, actually, I think, they were right.
0:31:55 > 0:31:57They did say, "You haven't got any hits."
0:31:57 > 0:31:59The American label wouldn't pick the album up.
0:31:59 > 0:32:04And I think we'd worked out what the sound...what we sounded like,
0:32:04 > 0:32:08but we hadn't kind of condensed it into the three minutes
0:32:08 > 0:32:11with verses and a catchy chorus.
0:32:11 > 0:32:14# Sunday, Sunday, here again, in tidy attire
0:32:14 > 0:32:18# You read the colour supplement, the TV guide... #
0:32:18 > 0:32:23It was only by some pretty tough conversations with Damon.
0:32:23 > 0:32:26You know, the first couple of singles are not there.
0:32:26 > 0:32:30He went away over the Christmas holiday and then came back with
0:32:30 > 0:32:32For Tomorrow and Chemical World.
0:32:32 > 0:32:36We went back into the studio, like, on the second of January,
0:32:36 > 0:32:38with Stephen Street, and recorded it.
0:32:38 > 0:32:42I remember Stephen Street getting really excited and saying,
0:32:42 > 0:32:44"This is one of the best records I've ever made."
0:32:44 > 0:32:50# He's a 20th century boy
0:32:50 > 0:32:52# With his hands on the rails... #
0:32:54 > 0:32:58And For Tomorrow was probably the first truly great song
0:32:58 > 0:33:02that he'd written, and that essentially set up...
0:33:02 > 0:33:04It certainly set up Modern Life Is Rubbish
0:33:04 > 0:33:07to be a bit of a revered classic album,
0:33:07 > 0:33:12but I think also opened the path towards what Parklife would become,
0:33:12 > 0:33:14and essentially the way his career evolved.
0:33:14 > 0:33:19# And so we hold each other tightly
0:33:19 > 0:33:25# And hold on for tomorrow, singing la-la-la... #
0:33:25 > 0:33:28Actually, the record company were absolutely right.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31If we hadn't have had that song...
0:33:32 > 0:33:35..I wouldn't be sitting here now, I don't think.
0:33:35 > 0:33:39You know, I suppose you can't really control creativity.
0:33:39 > 0:33:41But you can...send it back...
0:33:42 > 0:33:45..to make another one a bit better.
0:33:45 > 0:33:46- What do you think? - I don't know.
0:33:46 > 0:33:48I think she looks too nice in the photographs.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51Well, remember, the image is going to be changed.
0:33:51 > 0:33:54The hair will be changed slightly. And make-up changed.
0:33:54 > 0:33:57- And losing weight.- You've got a very good figure but you're a
0:33:57 > 0:33:59little bit... Really, you're a product.
0:33:59 > 0:34:02You know, you're a can of beans or something.
0:34:02 > 0:34:03Image can be everything.
0:34:03 > 0:34:08One's assuming that the music is great, but if the image doesn't fit
0:34:08 > 0:34:10with the message that you're portraying,
0:34:10 > 0:34:12it's probably not going to work.
0:34:12 > 0:34:14One of the acts that I work with, Katy Perry,
0:34:14 > 0:34:18moved from being a gospel singer into being the pop superstar
0:34:18 > 0:34:20that she is today.
0:34:20 > 0:34:23# California girls, we're undeniable
0:34:23 > 0:34:25# Fine, fresh, fierce, we got it on lock... #
0:34:26 > 0:34:30That was her looking, going, "This hasn't worked, this might work."
0:34:32 > 0:34:35You have to sometimes figure out what the audience want as well.
0:34:35 > 0:34:37You need to go with the times.
0:34:37 > 0:34:40You need to follow the zeitgeist a little bit.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45A great example of that from pop history past
0:34:45 > 0:34:48is the American girl group LaBelle.
0:34:48 > 0:34:49Now, Patti LaBelle And The Bluebelles!
0:34:49 > 0:34:51Patti LaBelle And The Bluebelles
0:34:51 > 0:34:54were a successful girl group in the 1960s,
0:34:54 > 0:34:58but by the end of the decade, their act was losing popularity.
0:34:58 > 0:35:07# Somewhere over the rainbow
0:35:07 > 0:35:13# Way, way up high... #
0:35:13 > 0:35:16British talent manager Vicki Wickham was brought in to rescue the group.
0:35:16 > 0:35:18The rules from the beginning were,
0:35:18 > 0:35:21"You're not going to sing Over The Rainbow any more."
0:35:22 > 0:35:26The look - "They can't all wear gloves and the same frocks
0:35:26 > 0:35:30"and the same shoes. Haven't seen that in years."
0:35:30 > 0:35:34We were still wearing our gowns and, you know,
0:35:34 > 0:35:39doing our hair in these elaborate '60s hairdos.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42So, you know, the nice arm movements.
0:35:42 > 0:35:46We were, like, stuck in a time warp.
0:35:46 > 0:35:50Vicki had to be tough, and she was initially met with strong resistance
0:35:50 > 0:35:51from band leader Patti.
0:35:51 > 0:35:55There was one night when Pat left, she was so pissed at me,
0:35:55 > 0:35:57and put on her fur coat, went out.
0:35:57 > 0:36:0020 minutes later, came back cos it was snowing.
0:36:00 > 0:36:03And said, "OK, I'll do it."
0:36:03 > 0:36:06- # We won't get fooled again - # No, no
0:36:06 > 0:36:09# We won't get fooled again... #
0:36:09 > 0:36:11Somebody called Larry Legaspi said to me,
0:36:11 > 0:36:15"I know what to do with them, I could make them look really good.
0:36:15 > 0:36:18"I'd do a lot of silver, I'd do a lot of space age."
0:36:18 > 0:36:20OK!
0:36:20 > 0:36:23# Hey sister, go sister, soul sister, go sister.
0:36:23 > 0:36:26# He met Marmalade down in Old New Orleans... #
0:36:26 > 0:36:29Then we had, you know, the platform silver boots.
0:36:29 > 0:36:32You know, it was a lot of silver and black,
0:36:32 > 0:36:35and cabled collars like the astronauts wore.
0:36:35 > 0:36:37# Gitchi gitchi ya ya da da
0:36:38 > 0:36:39# Gitchi gitchi ya ya here... #
0:36:40 > 0:36:42It set us apart.
0:36:42 > 0:36:48Nobody else was wearing it, and we were no longer a girl group.
0:36:48 > 0:36:51We didn't sound like one, we didn't look like one,
0:36:51 > 0:36:53we didn't perform like one.
0:36:53 > 0:36:57So it was a totally different voice in the music industry.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00# Voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir? #
0:37:00 > 0:37:05Vicki's image change was completely on point with funk music's affinity
0:37:05 > 0:37:08with space. It resonated with the youth audience,
0:37:08 > 0:37:11an appeal the original group had been lacking.
0:37:11 > 0:37:13And number-one records soon followed,
0:37:13 > 0:37:16and LaBelle became a household name in 1970s America.
0:37:16 > 0:37:21# Voulez-vous coucher avec moi ce soir? #
0:37:21 > 0:37:23APPLAUSE
0:37:27 > 0:37:30When hip-hop exploded in the next decade,
0:37:30 > 0:37:34the industry model for breaking new acts began to change.
0:37:34 > 0:37:38# Two years ago, a friend of mine asked me to say some MC rhymes... #
0:37:38 > 0:37:41Major record labels didn't know how to handle rap music.
0:37:41 > 0:37:44Their A&R reps weren't from that scene,
0:37:44 > 0:37:46making it hard for them to secure talent.
0:37:46 > 0:37:50# I'm like Tyson icing, I'm a soldier at war
0:37:50 > 0:37:53# I'm making sure you don't try to battle me no more... #
0:37:53 > 0:37:57Hip-hop changed A&R.
0:37:57 > 0:37:59A lot of the artists were coming from
0:37:59 > 0:38:02black or African-American neighbourhoods where a lot of the
0:38:02 > 0:38:05people who were A&Ring in the business, who were white,
0:38:05 > 0:38:09could not go. You had to have A&R people who understood the language
0:38:09 > 0:38:13that these young producers were speaking.
0:38:13 > 0:38:15- Say oh oh oh!- Oh oh oh!
0:38:15 > 0:38:19- Oh!- Oh! - Oh!- Oh!
0:38:21 > 0:38:23Our sound is raw.
0:38:23 > 0:38:27- Very raw.- Can you give us some examples of typical words you use
0:38:27 > 0:38:32- in the rapping? - Like, ill, dis...
0:38:33 > 0:38:38..suck ass, I shoot you dead, pistol, coke,
0:38:38 > 0:38:41crack, things of that sort.
0:38:41 > 0:38:43That's how they talk. They say, "Yo, man, what's up, man?
0:38:43 > 0:38:45"You want to go downtown and chill?"
0:38:45 > 0:38:49"No, man, you know, stay home and chill," you know.
0:38:49 > 0:38:50He don't talk like that.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53We talk like that because we know that's how they talk.
0:38:53 > 0:38:55# So don't try to dis me, if I leave you miss me
0:38:55 > 0:38:58# Girl in the front, you know you wanna kiss me... #
0:38:58 > 0:39:02You pretty much knew a scout because they didn't exactly fit in.
0:39:02 > 0:39:07Scouts look like A&R scouts.
0:39:09 > 0:39:12And it looks worse when they try to blend in,
0:39:12 > 0:39:18because they just buy the worst what they think is hip-hop outfits.
0:39:18 > 0:39:21So, it would be rap music's own people who would take the music
0:39:21 > 0:39:23to the masses.
0:39:23 > 0:39:28# 1989 the number, another summer
0:39:28 > 0:39:30# Sound of the funky drummer... #
0:39:30 > 0:39:33Independent record companies like Def Jam were set up
0:39:33 > 0:39:36by entrepreneurs who were from the hip-hop community.
0:39:36 > 0:39:41They instinctively knew how to successfully market rap music.
0:39:41 > 0:39:47There was this new idea of how to create a groundswell without radio,
0:39:47 > 0:39:51because even urban radio was not embracing hip-hop.
0:39:51 > 0:39:56# How low can you go? Death row, what a brother know... #
0:39:56 > 0:40:00The concept of, like, a street 12-inch,
0:40:00 > 0:40:03a white label that may or may not get on the radio, but the DJs,
0:40:03 > 0:40:06the mix shows, the clubs, are going to play it.
0:40:06 > 0:40:09This became kind of the hip-hop vehicle.
0:40:09 > 0:40:12The independent hip-hop labels quickly worked out the best
0:40:12 > 0:40:15talent scouts were the artists themselves.
0:40:16 > 0:40:19Starting in the '80s, with groups like, for example,
0:40:19 > 0:40:23De La Soul featuring Q-Tip, and then a couple years later,
0:40:23 > 0:40:27Q-Tip's got a group out. That became the norm
0:40:27 > 0:40:31both in the early '90s and throughout the '90s and the 2000s,
0:40:31 > 0:40:36that an artist who became very successful was given the A&R job
0:40:36 > 0:40:37as well, by the label.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40"Pick the next artist, put them on your record,
0:40:40 > 0:40:41"and then we'll put it out."
0:40:41 > 0:40:43The studio sessions were...
0:40:43 > 0:40:46You'd walk in and you wouldn't know whose session it was.
0:40:46 > 0:40:48De La Soul would be in there, Jungle Brothers would be in there,
0:40:48 > 0:40:50A Tribe Called Quest would be in there.
0:40:50 > 0:40:53I'd be hanging out, Queen Latifah's on the couch.
0:40:53 > 0:40:57You know, there they are, doing a song, and then Posdnuos turns to me
0:40:57 > 0:40:59and says, "Go in the booth." I said, "For what?"
0:40:59 > 0:41:02He said, "Put 18 bars down on this."
0:41:02 > 0:41:04"What?" "Go and do it."
0:41:04 > 0:41:06Sit there, plays a song a bunch of times.
0:41:06 > 0:41:09"All right, 18 bars." I go in there, I do it.
0:41:09 > 0:41:13Lo and behold, I get a verse on one of the most classic hip-hop songs
0:41:13 > 0:41:15of all time, Buddy.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18# My buddy helps me to (De La my Soul)... #
0:41:18 > 0:41:23De La Soul A&Red me on that project.
0:41:25 > 0:41:26# Now, as the lady,
0:41:26 > 0:41:28# I thought that Jungle and Quest and Soul would just maybe
0:41:28 > 0:41:30# Give me the chance to say that I get crazy
0:41:30 > 0:41:33# Due to the fact I let Buddy amaze me
0:41:33 > 0:41:36# As a matter of fact, it crazes me in many ways
0:41:36 > 0:41:38# I decided that it was time for Monie Love to say... #
0:41:38 > 0:41:40I decided that it was time for Monie Love to say
0:41:40 > 0:41:42- I have to say my name -
0:41:42 > 0:41:44that when it comes to the Buddy, you know that I don't play,
0:41:44 > 0:41:47cos to me, chasing Buddy is a perfect way to spend the day.
0:41:52 > 0:41:54One of the most classic songs of all time,
0:41:54 > 0:41:58and I got I rhyme on it because Posdnuos A&Red me on the song.
0:42:05 > 0:42:10Damon Dash is a pioneering figure when it comes to A&Ring rap music.
0:42:10 > 0:42:12Through his label, Roc-A-Fella Records,
0:42:12 > 0:42:16he had a knack for finding and launching new artists,
0:42:16 > 0:42:19and then using their music to sell hip-hop as a lifestyle.
0:42:22 > 0:42:26Damon's story began when he couldn't get his talented friend, Jay-Z,
0:42:26 > 0:42:28a record deal.
0:42:28 > 0:42:29I was trying to get him signed.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32I took Jay-Z to every "A&R" in the business.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35So you've got to think, we're like the coolest dudes in the street,
0:42:35 > 0:42:37and we're, like, asking a nerd for their opinion.
0:42:42 > 0:42:46Jay-Z was dope, and everybody knew it, but there was a blockage
0:42:46 > 0:42:50on why nobody would touch him as far as to sign him.
0:42:50 > 0:42:53If they sign somebody and they lose, then they get fired.
0:42:53 > 0:42:56You know what I'm saying? So they're just trying to keep their job.
0:42:56 > 0:42:58An A&R man is too scared to go to the street.
0:42:58 > 0:43:01He's not going to the concrete, he gets it, like, on the radio.
0:43:01 > 0:43:04Dame Dash said, "Screw everybody,
0:43:04 > 0:43:07"we're going to scrape up whatever pennies we have,
0:43:07 > 0:43:10"and we're going to put you out ourselves.
0:43:10 > 0:43:12"And I'm going to market the shit out of you,
0:43:12 > 0:43:15"and then everybody's going to get on your top."
0:43:15 > 0:43:19# Give it to me! Give me that funk, that sweet... #
0:43:19 > 0:43:21Dash launched Jay-Z through channels no major label
0:43:21 > 0:43:24could ever reach. He was able to push Jay's music at a street level,
0:43:24 > 0:43:28via the right clubs, DJs, and radio shows.
0:43:29 > 0:43:31When you're a great artist,
0:43:31 > 0:43:35to have somebody else right next to you expending the energy is kind of
0:43:35 > 0:43:37better than the artist themselves saying,
0:43:37 > 0:43:39"Hey, I'm great, check me out".
0:43:39 > 0:43:43So Dame was great at kind of helping Jay-Z
0:43:43 > 0:43:45get his foot in the gate.
0:43:45 > 0:43:48I was loud. I was loud. I was so loud.
0:43:48 > 0:43:52I was extra. So extra, and it was strategic extra.
0:43:52 > 0:43:55Like, being a mogul was like a character for me,
0:43:55 > 0:43:56it was like a cartoon character.
0:43:56 > 0:43:59So I played it, you know what I'm saying? It was just fun.
0:44:01 > 0:44:04Through the phenomenal chart success that followed,
0:44:04 > 0:44:08Damon was able to make Roc-A-Fella Records almost as famous as Jay-Z.
0:44:10 > 0:44:14He turned the record label into a lifestyle its fans could buy into,
0:44:14 > 0:44:17selling not just music, but vodka and clothing too.
0:44:18 > 0:44:22Hip-hop moguls like Damon showed you could take an unknown artist
0:44:22 > 0:44:26from the streets and turn them into a multi-million-dollar business
0:44:26 > 0:44:29without having to use the old-school industry channels.
0:44:31 > 0:44:36That opened up an enormous trend that really started to take off
0:44:36 > 0:44:40in the 2000s, which was all these big rappers all of a sudden
0:44:40 > 0:44:46had clothing lines. Here's a whole 'nother very profitable industry
0:44:46 > 0:44:51that now feels like the music is their marketing machine.
0:44:51 > 0:44:56What's special about hip-hop is the opportunities that they're able
0:44:56 > 0:45:01to give people who don't feel like they have any opportunities.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07Rappers like P Diddy and Dr Dre turned themselves into
0:45:07 > 0:45:11superstar entrepreneurs, building billion-dollar empires.
0:45:11 > 0:45:15The hip-hop community adapted the music industry to work for them,
0:45:15 > 0:45:18changing the model for breaking new artists along the way.
0:45:26 > 0:45:29# You've got to roll with it, you've got to take your time
0:45:29 > 0:45:35# You've got to say what you say, don't let anybody get in your way. #
0:45:35 > 0:45:39It was in the 1990s that hip-hop began to make millions,
0:45:39 > 0:45:42and that kind of money wasn't just exclusive to rap.
0:45:42 > 0:45:45Looking back now, it was the industry's glory days,
0:45:45 > 0:45:49with lots labels making ridiculous amounts of money.
0:45:49 > 0:45:52But it was a system that couldn't sustain itself.
0:45:52 > 0:45:57# ..lost inside, I think I'm going to take me away and hide... #
0:45:57 > 0:46:00In the '90s, I wished I was in a record company,
0:46:00 > 0:46:02because they seemed to have all the money.
0:46:02 > 0:46:04They were the people that had cars waiting outside every venue,
0:46:04 > 0:46:06and I was still getting the bus or the Tube home.
0:46:08 > 0:46:12There were a lot of A&R people then, mainly guys.
0:46:12 > 0:46:15You know, there weren't that many women doing it,
0:46:15 > 0:46:16but there were a few.
0:46:16 > 0:46:18And they were just all lined up at the bar.
0:46:18 > 0:46:20I mean, sometimes I wonder whether they really even saw the act
0:46:20 > 0:46:22that they went to see...
0:46:23 > 0:46:24..because there was, you know,
0:46:24 > 0:46:27quite a long line into the toilet cubicles a lot of the time.
0:46:27 > 0:46:30Probably because they were drinking so much beer, of course.
0:46:33 > 0:46:35Lots of drinking, lots of partying.
0:46:35 > 0:46:38The book Kill Your Friends, the John Niven book,
0:46:38 > 0:46:42which has been made into a movie, gives you an idea.
0:46:42 > 0:46:44You know, some of it maybe is a bit far-fetched,
0:46:44 > 0:46:47but some of it isn't too far away from the truth.
0:46:47 > 0:46:49Welcome to the music industry.
0:46:49 > 0:46:52A freeloading orgy of utter nonsense.
0:46:52 > 0:46:54Only one thing matters in this racket -
0:46:54 > 0:46:57big hit records.
0:46:57 > 0:47:01I moved to London to work in A&R in about 1994.
0:47:01 > 0:47:04That was kind of the ascendant height of Britpop.
0:47:04 > 0:47:07Sales were hugely buoyant, you know?
0:47:07 > 0:47:11I think the industry passed the billion-pound turnover mark
0:47:11 > 0:47:15for the first time in 1996. So it was...
0:47:17 > 0:47:19It's difficult to put into context now, but you know,
0:47:19 > 0:47:25a CD would cost around £13, a new CD.
0:47:25 > 0:47:27And you'd be selling millions.
0:47:27 > 0:47:30So there was a lot of money sloshing around the music business.
0:47:30 > 0:47:32Come on!
0:47:34 > 0:47:37I think if you take a load of overconfident, ambitious,
0:47:37 > 0:47:40competitive guys in their 20s,
0:47:40 > 0:47:44and massively overpay them and give them unlimited access to
0:47:44 > 0:47:48drugs and booze, you're going to get some fairly, erm, fraught scenarios.
0:47:48 > 0:47:49MUSIC: Mile End, by Pulp
0:47:49 > 0:47:52The average week at a record company, nobody would be at work
0:47:52 > 0:47:54on a Monday, because they'd be recovering from the weekend.
0:47:54 > 0:47:58People sort of start to straggle in on Tuesday afternoon.
0:47:58 > 0:48:00Wednesday, some work would get done.
0:48:00 > 0:48:02Thursday lunchtime, everyone's off to the pub,
0:48:02 > 0:48:05everyone's waiting for the drop-off of whatever.
0:48:05 > 0:48:08And then Friday, you're out. So essentially, there was, like,
0:48:08 > 0:48:09one day a week, maybe one and a half days a week,
0:48:09 > 0:48:11that anyone actually used to do any work.
0:48:11 > 0:48:14There was so much money sloshing around in record companies.
0:48:14 > 0:48:17They were a lot more kind of happy-go-lucky about their approach.
0:48:17 > 0:48:20If you had, like, a decent look or a decent song...
0:48:21 > 0:48:25..there were plenty of labels that were willing to kind of
0:48:25 > 0:48:28chuck a few quid at it and see what happened.
0:48:28 > 0:48:33# My favourite thing has gone away, and I know it won't be easy now
0:48:33 > 0:48:36# But I'll manage somehow... #
0:48:36 > 0:48:40I mean, the legend is that bands would play one gig and get signed,
0:48:40 > 0:48:43and that is true, that did happen.
0:48:43 > 0:48:46Menswear had to do their first gig in secret, under a pseudonym.
0:48:46 > 0:48:49I think Elastica did a similar thing,
0:48:49 > 0:48:53because even before you'd released anything on a small label or
0:48:53 > 0:48:56played many shows, there was the potential that there would be
0:48:56 > 0:49:00a bunch of A&R people waiting to sign you.
0:49:00 > 0:49:02It does sound very easy to get signed.
0:49:02 > 0:49:05Maybe it WAS quite easy to get signed.
0:49:05 > 0:49:06And you didn't need many songs.
0:49:06 > 0:49:09Menswear got signed, I think we did...
0:49:09 > 0:49:10I think we did three gigs.
0:49:10 > 0:49:14And there was A&R people en masse at every single one of them,
0:49:14 > 0:49:16and we had three songs.
0:49:16 > 0:49:18Just three songs.
0:49:18 > 0:49:20# I stole his shoes and ran away... #
0:49:20 > 0:49:24But while CD sales from bands like Menswear were making piles of cash
0:49:24 > 0:49:27for the record industry, a revolution was coming,
0:49:27 > 0:49:31one that would have an enormous effect on the signing of new talent.
0:49:33 > 0:49:36I remember we had a meeting with two American guys who came to see us
0:49:36 > 0:49:40at London Records, who wanted an investment of £50,000
0:49:40 > 0:49:43for some internet venture. They were trying to
0:49:43 > 0:49:47- this is 1995 - and they're trying to explain to us how the
0:49:47 > 0:49:49internet's going to affect the record industry.
0:49:49 > 0:49:52And this guy is saying, "Because in the future, you know,
0:49:52 > 0:49:55"all the kids, they're going to get their music on their computers."
0:49:55 > 0:49:57And we were going, "Right, so the...
0:49:58 > 0:50:01"..CDs... It's going to come down the wires,
0:50:01 > 0:50:04"and then come out on a CD? Your computer prints off the artwork,
0:50:04 > 0:50:07"and then you put it together yourself?" And the guy went,
0:50:07 > 0:50:09"No, there won't be any artwork, nobody cares about that,
0:50:09 > 0:50:11"the kids just want to hear the songs."
0:50:11 > 0:50:14So at that point, we went, "This guy's a nutjob," and we
0:50:14 > 0:50:18kicked him out of the office with our boots ringing on his backside.
0:50:18 > 0:50:20And...
0:50:20 > 0:50:23..we later found out that the company they were setting up
0:50:23 > 0:50:24was called Yahoo.
0:50:25 > 0:50:30Had we taken the £50,000 that we spent on making the second
0:50:30 > 0:50:34Menswear album and invested it in Yahoo stock
0:50:34 > 0:50:37- we all figured this out much later over redundancy drinks -
0:50:37 > 0:50:39we'd have done all right.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45It was a sea-change moment in the global music business.
0:50:45 > 0:50:48Fast forward to the 2010s,
0:50:48 > 0:50:52and downloading and streaming have meant physical sales have plummeted,
0:50:52 > 0:50:56so those big signing deals aren't as prevalent as they once were.
0:50:59 > 0:51:03I think streaming and the rise of the internet has meant that
0:51:03 > 0:51:08it's much easier for artists to get their music heard,
0:51:08 > 0:51:11although it's probably not that much easier for them to get it heard
0:51:11 > 0:51:17in a mass way. I think, on the flip side, what it's making is
0:51:17 > 0:51:20a culture of people that don't invest in artists,
0:51:20 > 0:51:22and they invest in tracks.
0:51:22 > 0:51:27So what people like me have to do is figure out how we take
0:51:27 > 0:51:31the streaming culture and develop artists still.
0:51:33 > 0:51:37Denzyl Feigelson is doing just that. He recently set up Platoon,
0:51:37 > 0:51:40a company that's developing new talent in the digital age.
0:51:43 > 0:51:45Because it's simpler in this day and age to release music,
0:51:45 > 0:51:48there's a lot of it now. There's a lot of music.
0:51:48 > 0:51:51And anyone can just put their music up there.
0:51:51 > 0:51:55There's a lot of platforms that allow you to release the track.
0:51:55 > 0:51:59That's not the issue, the issue is having a campaign, have people
0:51:59 > 0:52:03working it, having relationships with editors, influencers.
0:52:03 > 0:52:07We understand what playlists this track should be in,
0:52:07 > 0:52:12we know which editors to contact, we know which blogs and vlogs...
0:52:12 > 0:52:14We make our own playlists.
0:52:14 > 0:52:17We know how to seed the track into the inter-web,
0:52:17 > 0:52:20and into the ears of the people who should be listening to it.
0:52:21 > 0:52:27A 2012 survey revealed 64% of teenagers find new music on YouTube,
0:52:27 > 0:52:30so the A&R game has had to change.
0:52:30 > 0:52:34Gone are the days of expense accounts and huge bar bills.
0:52:34 > 0:52:37Today's A&R sits hunched over a computer screen
0:52:37 > 0:52:40finding new artists and maximising their online presence.
0:52:42 > 0:52:44All right, let's go through our Trello board and look at
0:52:44 > 0:52:47who's coming up, what new artists we're really excited about.
0:52:47 > 0:52:49Fridays, we have our A&R meetings.
0:52:49 > 0:52:53And we go through all the incoming, and we go through a process of
0:52:53 > 0:52:56looking at where something is in various stages.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59So the board tells me everything on this artist.
0:52:59 > 0:53:02There's a link to listen, there's his or her social media stats,
0:53:02 > 0:53:05so I know how many Instagram followers they have,
0:53:05 > 0:53:07whether they're on Facebook, or they're on Snapchat.
0:53:07 > 0:53:10I can listen to the track, I can see the stats, and in that way, we get
0:53:10 > 0:53:13a picture of all the releases, everything that's coming out.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23Getting on a playlist on one of the big streaming services
0:53:23 > 0:53:26can introduce you to millions of new listeners.
0:53:26 > 0:53:29Companies like Platoon are able to get hold of the streaming data
0:53:29 > 0:53:32and use it to market their artist.
0:53:32 > 0:53:34Mr Eazi actually came to us.
0:53:34 > 0:53:38We just started looking into, who are you, what do you need,
0:53:38 > 0:53:43how can we help? We looked at statistics on Mr Eazi,
0:53:43 > 0:53:47and it turns out that, you know, you can see whether people are on
0:53:47 > 0:53:51a 9.99 month plan or on a family plan, or on a student plan.
0:53:51 > 0:53:56And it turns out that a large chunk of his subscribers were students.
0:53:56 > 0:53:59And then you can actually look into... If you go deeper, you go,
0:53:59 > 0:54:02"Where are these students?" "Well, they're in the US."
0:54:02 > 0:54:04"What part of the US?" Then you start going,
0:54:04 > 0:54:06"Well, why don't we do a tour of colleges and universities?"
0:54:06 > 0:54:09"And how do you do that?" "Well, let's just call them up."
0:54:09 > 0:54:11You know, he did the three-month tour.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14It was sold out in colleges in the US.
0:54:14 > 0:54:16# I hold it down like a Snapchat
0:54:16 > 0:54:18# Go over your head like a snapback
0:54:18 > 0:54:19# Uploaded a pic, double tap that
0:54:19 > 0:54:21# And your flow's so old, grandad... #
0:54:21 > 0:54:25It's a new world, and many new artists are bypassing record labels.
0:54:25 > 0:54:28# Why you Snapchatting in the club for?
0:54:28 > 0:54:31# Just dance, man, like yo famalam, yo fam, yo famalam... #
0:54:31 > 0:54:34Like many UK grime acts, Lady Leshurr took full advantage
0:54:34 > 0:54:38of the internet to launch her career by herself.
0:54:38 > 0:54:44I've been independent all this time, just because I knew what I wanted.
0:54:44 > 0:54:46That's one thing - I feel like you have to build your brand
0:54:46 > 0:54:50before someone else builds it, you have to definitely know who you are
0:54:50 > 0:54:52and believe in that.
0:54:56 > 0:55:01I did it all on my own, and as well as the director, WAWA,
0:55:01 > 0:55:02who shot all the Queen's Speeches,
0:55:02 > 0:55:06we just had an idea, and we turned it into reality.
0:55:14 > 0:55:16You know, you have to have your Twitter, you have to have your
0:55:16 > 0:55:18Snapchat, you have to have social networks to get it out.
0:55:18 > 0:55:20So you've got to make sure that you're active,
0:55:20 > 0:55:22and that's what I was, I was very active.
0:55:22 > 0:55:27And then it got to the point where American artists like Akon and
0:55:27 > 0:55:32Erykah Badu, Kanye West, like, they were posting it themselves.
0:55:32 > 0:55:34# You pout like Donald Duck, Wasteman,
0:55:34 > 0:55:36# Donald Trump, YouTube views, that's millions,
0:55:36 > 0:55:37# Weave on fleek, Brazilian... #
0:55:37 > 0:55:39And that's just because I had an idea.
0:55:39 > 0:55:42# All wanna talk, but wait, cos I got the juice... #
0:55:44 > 0:55:48100 million streams is an incredible achievement,
0:55:48 > 0:55:52but Lady Leshurr realises, to be up there with the Katy Perrys,
0:55:52 > 0:55:54you need to break through to the mainstream.
0:55:54 > 0:55:57And that's where I come in. I can put her in front of
0:55:57 > 0:56:00big, new audiences that are receptive to her music.
0:56:01 > 0:56:06The lyrics that you write and the way that you perform mean that
0:56:06 > 0:56:09you can be, you know, truly global as well. And I think it's
0:56:09 > 0:56:13really important that we try and put you in a position
0:56:13 > 0:56:15where you are, you know, going to America.
0:56:15 > 0:56:18But more than that, South America, Asia, Japan -
0:56:18 > 0:56:24all of these places are what's going to make you a global superstar.
0:56:24 > 0:56:28You know, if you never leave Solihull, then we're in big trouble.
0:56:28 > 0:56:32But hey, we're already in Dublin, so we're one step at a time, eh?
0:56:32 > 0:56:36- Exactly.- I think tonight, you've just got to go out,
0:56:36 > 0:56:39and you've got to do what you do so brilliantly.
0:56:39 > 0:56:41This is a crowd - they've heard rap before.
0:56:41 > 0:56:44- Maybe not like you do it, but they've heard it.- Yeah.
0:56:44 > 0:56:46So you go and grab them, and go for it.
0:56:46 > 0:56:49That's what it's all about - I have to enjoy myself.
0:56:49 > 0:56:51And if I feel like the crowd's not enjoying themselves,
0:56:51 > 0:56:55I'm going to make sure that I do something that makes at least
0:56:55 > 0:56:58three people smile, and have fun whilst I'm doing it.
0:56:58 > 0:57:04# Brush your teeth, brush your teeth, brush 'em! #
0:57:05 > 0:57:09I think Lady Leshurr is an example of how new artists make it big
0:57:09 > 0:57:13in the current climate. The power of the internet enables you
0:57:13 > 0:57:16to make it so far, but you still need some of
0:57:16 > 0:57:19the old-school approach to get you to superstardom.
0:57:24 > 0:57:28But guess what? There's still no magic formula.
0:57:28 > 0:57:31The road to success is an unpredictable mix
0:57:31 > 0:57:32of lucky breaks, good timing,
0:57:32 > 0:57:38and hopefully some clever planning by the team around you.
0:57:38 > 0:57:42# When was the last time...? #
0:57:42 > 0:57:47The one vital ingredient that remains consistent is talent.
0:57:47 > 0:57:50I don't think you can manage creativity.
0:57:50 > 0:57:54It's kind of, like, irrepressible, indomitable.
0:57:54 > 0:57:57It's like thistles, just springing up everywhere.
0:57:58 > 0:58:01You can't really stop it, and you can't really manage it,
0:58:01 > 0:58:04and you just have to try and make sure it's pointing
0:58:04 > 0:58:06in the right direction.
0:58:11 > 0:58:14It's the music business. It's a business.
0:58:14 > 0:58:18Their job is to make money. It's a product. That's what it is.
0:58:18 > 0:58:21A band is a tin of beans on the shelf.
0:58:21 > 0:58:23It was like that for Elvis, it was like that with The Beatles.
0:58:23 > 0:58:26It was like that with every single band that's ever followed.
0:58:30 > 0:58:34Everybody wants to sell records, not only because you make so much money,
0:58:34 > 0:58:38but because people get to hear your music.
0:58:38 > 0:58:40And that is invaluable.
0:58:40 > 0:58:44# Just because!
0:58:44 > 0:58:49# Just because! Just because! #