0:00:04 > 0:00:07# Young guns having some fun
0:00:12 > 0:00:14# Young guns having some fun
0:00:15 > 0:00:20- # Young guns!- Heads up!- Go for it! Young guns!- Heads up!
0:00:20 > 0:00:24- # Young guns!- Heads up!- Go for it! Young guns!- Heads up!
0:00:25 > 0:00:27# Young guns! #
0:00:32 > 0:00:36# I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour
0:00:36 > 0:00:40# But heaven knows I'm miserable now... #
0:00:40 > 0:00:45Led by the songwriting duo of Morrissey, the enigmatic front man,
0:00:45 > 0:00:52and guitarist Johnny Marr, the Smiths, from Manchester, were an unlikely '80s pop success story.
0:00:52 > 0:00:59# Why do I give valuable time To people who don't care if I live or die? #
0:00:59 > 0:01:06Morrissey wrote about failure and loneliness, with a singular vision of British life rooted in the past.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09He had an aesthetic.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13It reminded me of the place I'd come from.
0:01:13 > 0:01:18Sort of two-up, two-down, it's-grim-up-north scene.
0:01:18 > 0:01:24I was only aware of it as something that was from when I was a kid - black and white films.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28# Girlfriend in a coma I know, I know
0:01:28 > 0:01:31# It's serious
0:01:33 > 0:01:40# Girlfriend in a coma I know, I know It's really serious. #
0:01:40 > 0:01:46Most groups around were manufactured, heavily styled, over-made-up.
0:01:46 > 0:01:51The Smiths were three scallies from Manchester, with a weirdo front man
0:01:51 > 0:01:56who couldn't decide if he was Oscar Wilde, James Dean, or some hybrid.
0:01:56 > 0:02:01Among this sterile, bland electronics was something emotional.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04# The boy with the thorn in his side
0:02:04 > 0:02:07# Behind the hatred there lies
0:02:07 > 0:02:14# A plundering desire for love... #
0:02:14 > 0:02:21However, despite their refusal to join the '80s pop party, and their championing of alternative values,
0:02:21 > 0:02:28since they spilt in '87, the Smiths have been in an acrimonious court battle over the band's earnings.
0:02:29 > 0:02:34They thought me and Andy should only get 10%.
0:02:36 > 0:02:41Well...I was in the back of the van. I did the gigs.
0:02:47 > 0:02:52The Smiths' story begins in late-70s Manchester.
0:02:52 > 0:02:57Stephen Morrissey was a shadowy presence on the emerging punk scene.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00I was quite advanced at school.
0:03:00 > 0:03:06When I left school, it seemed all these oafish clods from school
0:03:06 > 0:03:13had wonderfully large cars and lots of money, and I was constantly waiting for a bus that never came.
0:03:15 > 0:03:20It was a very aggressive time. Manchester is still a violent place.
0:03:20 > 0:03:25It was quite an intimidating atmosphere.
0:03:25 > 0:03:27He seemed to float above all that.
0:03:29 > 0:03:34At the time, he was someone you sniggered at.
0:03:34 > 0:03:39He always seemed to be leaning against summat, or pulling away.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42Obviously, he was arming himself.
0:03:45 > 0:03:51He wanted to join the Nosebleeds, but they didn't like his songs.
0:03:51 > 0:03:56They found the gender confusion upsetting, being just regular lads.
0:03:58 > 0:04:05When he had his self-styled period of isolation - the years in his room - he was planning.
0:04:05 > 0:04:09I never had a social life, or left the house.
0:04:09 > 0:04:13I just read and watched television,
0:04:13 > 0:04:17and done things considered to be soul-destroying.
0:04:17 > 0:04:22I'd write furiously - it was the thing that helped.
0:04:22 > 0:04:27But you had to have a grain of hope, which is a difficult thing to have.
0:04:27 > 0:04:31In the early '80s, he slipped me a cassette
0:04:31 > 0:04:34of him singing very, very quietly,
0:04:34 > 0:04:39 with a note saying, "I have to whisper, because Mum's next door."
0:04:39 > 0:04:45One of the songs was called Wake Up Johnny, and a few months later,
0:04:45 > 0:04:50Johnny knocked on Morrissey's door and woke HIM up.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05I mean, I was really into football
0:05:05 > 0:05:11and I played football, but it came a long way second to music.
0:05:11 > 0:05:17I knew from 11 that that was it. That was what I wanted to do.
0:05:17 > 0:05:22Johnny's a great guitar player. He was a rare example of a person who...
0:05:22 > 0:05:28Um...his ability managed to live up to his hype. He WAS a hustler.
0:05:29 > 0:05:32The people I liked were...
0:05:32 > 0:05:35people on the hustle, you know -
0:05:35 > 0:05:43Andrew Oldham, the Stones' manager, and Phil Spector. Brian Jones - the way he got the Stones together.
0:05:43 > 0:05:49I thought it was really cool to run around hyper and make things happen.
0:05:49 > 0:05:52Lad bounds in - didn't know him -
0:05:52 > 0:05:58says, "Hi. My name's Johnny Marr. I'm a frustrated musician."
0:05:58 > 0:06:00He was magnetic, Johnny.
0:06:00 > 0:06:07Joe showed me this documentary about Leiber and Stoller. One of them was writing music or words,
0:06:07 > 0:06:12needed a partner, and heard about the other guy.
0:06:12 > 0:06:19He said, "I just went up to his door and knocked on the door and said, 'Here I am. Let's do it.' "
0:06:19 > 0:06:25And...so...I had a eureka moment then - "Ah, right. OK."
0:06:25 > 0:06:30I remembered that guy Morrissey that was pretty good, you know.
0:06:30 > 0:06:36So, we got on the bus, went to his house and knocked on the door.
0:06:36 > 0:06:41I think he'd given up the idea of it ever happening for him.
0:06:41 > 0:06:48It must've been weird for him. Just out of the blue, the door opens and this...
0:06:48 > 0:06:50hyperactive...
0:06:50 > 0:06:55flash git, with a massive quiff, just goes, "Aargh!"
0:06:55 > 0:07:02I was discovered, if you like, by Johnny, the guitarist, who just came and unearthed me one day
0:07:02 > 0:07:09and insisted we collaborate. I was there, dying, and he rescued me. It's been very nice.
0:07:09 > 0:07:14We had Joe's resources, my resourcefulness and...
0:07:15 > 0:07:18..Morrissey's, um...drive.
0:07:18 > 0:07:23We were on a mission. We were taking the world on.
0:07:23 > 0:07:28We planned a strategy and the Smiths emerged immediately.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33# Good times for a change
0:07:34 > 0:07:40# See, the luck I've had Can make a good man turn bad
0:07:42 > 0:07:46# So please, please, please
0:07:46 > 0:07:49# Let me, let me, let me
0:07:49 > 0:07:55# Let me get what I want this time. #
0:07:55 > 0:07:59With his mentor, Joe Moss, as manager,
0:07:59 > 0:08:06Johnny Marr brought in old friend Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce to complete the line-up.
0:08:06 > 0:08:10Johnny roped in Andy Rourke on bass and Mike Joyce on drums.
0:08:10 > 0:08:15They're the most capable musicians I came across in Manchester.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18It's a perfect little family.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22I met Johnny at school, when I was about 12.
0:08:22 > 0:08:28He called me to say he was doing a demo at Decibel Studios
0:08:28 > 0:08:32and he'd got Mike in, um...on drums.
0:08:32 > 0:08:37And could I do some bass-playing? I'd never heard the songs before.
0:08:37 > 0:08:41MIKE JOYCE: Morrissey said very little.
0:08:41 > 0:08:46He just prowled round the room! He had a long, tweed coat on.
0:08:46 > 0:08:53He walked up and down, took a couple of furtive glances at me, and back down again.
0:08:53 > 0:08:57I felt he thought I was stupid. I felt intimidated.
0:08:57 > 0:09:02Not cos he was Morrissey - he was a bloke called Steve.
0:09:02 > 0:09:07He could definitely be a bit strange. He kept himself to himself.
0:09:07 > 0:09:13I don't think he wanted to be close to people, cos he wanted autonomy.
0:09:13 > 0:09:21And he wanted the freedom to be able to break relationships with people and keep it professional.
0:09:21 > 0:09:26He was different with me than he was with everyone else.
0:09:26 > 0:09:31I couldn't have given my music to anybody who appreciated it more.
0:09:31 > 0:09:37He fell in love with it. That went on all the way through the band, in that...
0:09:37 > 0:09:40he was my biggest fan, really.
0:09:40 > 0:09:47It was a very passionate friendship. And I don't necessarily mean that in a sexual way.
0:09:47 > 0:09:52Morrissey talked to me in very awed terms about Johnny's abilities.
0:09:52 > 0:09:58Likewise, Johnny would always talk of Morrissey in a very awed way.
0:09:59 > 0:10:05Me, being literary, and Johnny, with his melodic ideas, emerged together so successfully.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09We're following nature. There you have it.
0:10:09 > 0:10:15# Hand in glove The sun shines out of our behinds
0:10:15 > 0:10:18# No, it's not like any other love
0:10:18 > 0:10:21# This one is different Because it's us
0:10:21 > 0:10:27# Hand in glove We can go wherever we please
0:10:27 > 0:10:33# And everything depends upon How near you stand to me
0:10:34 > 0:10:38# And if the people stare Then the people stare
0:10:38 > 0:10:43# Oh, I really don't know and I really don't care... #
0:10:43 > 0:10:49Initially, we all travelled in the same vehicle, with the manager driving.
0:10:49 > 0:10:55They had individual personalities and they complemented each other.
0:10:55 > 0:11:01Andy and Johnny were very close. Mike could be very deadpan.
0:11:01 > 0:11:08Morrissey would be making remarks about the countryside, and we'd be rolling about on the floor.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10They were very close-knit.
0:11:10 > 0:11:17We were really quite cemented. It's a very strong force. If you really examine an individual in the group,
0:11:17 > 0:11:24you'll come up with the same notion, because, in an almost absurd way, everybody is quite individualistic.
0:11:24 > 0:11:29There's only one person who plays bass, only one who plays drums.
0:11:29 > 0:11:34We're a very strong unit. I'm sure we'll last a terribly long time.
0:11:34 > 0:11:43The social aspect was very important to Morrissey. He needed a social life around him. He wanted a gang.
0:11:43 > 0:11:48He carried them around with him like a cloak - for protection.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51But I think the reality was that,
0:11:51 > 0:11:54at times, it was more of a hair shirt.
0:11:54 > 0:12:00He didn't have much in common with them. It was the "myth of community".
0:12:00 > 0:12:05It was as if he wanted everyone to believe this was his club.
0:12:05 > 0:12:10Within months, the Smiths were the most talked-about band in Britain,
0:12:10 > 0:12:15with major record companies queueing up to sign them.
0:12:15 > 0:12:20They chose the left-leaning co-operative, Rough Trade Records,
0:12:20 > 0:12:24champions of all things subversive and indie.
0:12:27 > 0:12:33They mistrusted the record industry, so going with an independent meant they could call the shots.
0:12:33 > 0:12:40They liked to control the pricing of their records and things like that.
0:12:40 > 0:12:44Their ethos was they wanted to be as big as the Beatles,
0:12:44 > 0:12:48but as anti-Establishment as the Sex Pistols.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52But when they signed the contract with Rough Trade,
0:12:52 > 0:12:57they showed the band was anything BUT a co-operative.
0:12:57 > 0:13:02I recollect a certain way. Johnny and Morrissey recollect another.
0:13:02 > 0:13:08I'm sure the window cleaner at the time would say something different, as well.
0:13:10 > 0:13:18When I went to Manchester with the Rough Trade contract, I expected it to be signed by all four members.
0:13:18 > 0:13:23But at the point of signature, in the clothing warehouse,
0:13:23 > 0:13:26Johnny and Morrissey signed it.
0:13:26 > 0:13:33There was an apparent divide in terms of how Johnny and Morrissey perceived the business aspects.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42There was only two spaces for their signatures.
0:13:42 > 0:13:47Me and Mike were like, "What's all this about?"
0:13:47 > 0:13:54Geoff explained there were only two signatures needed, so the obvious ones were Johnny and Morrissey,
0:13:54 > 0:13:57but it wouldn't affect us in any way.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03I certainly didn't instigate...
0:14:03 > 0:14:10I didn't phone Rough Trade, saying, "Make sure there's only two names on the contract".
0:14:10 > 0:14:17Wasn't in my sphere of consciousness. It's not something I would've thought of.
0:14:17 > 0:14:23- But somebody did. - Somebody did, yeah. You'd have to ask somebody else.
0:14:26 > 0:14:30What bothered me was...
0:14:31 > 0:14:38..whether we'd make two albums, or three albums, or four albums. That's all I was worried about.
0:14:42 > 0:14:47I'm not a session player. I'm the drummer in the Smiths.
0:14:47 > 0:14:55The Smiths signed a deal with Rough Trade, Johnny and Morrissey signing. I've signed a deal with Rough Trade.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58Obviously, it panned out differently.
0:14:58 > 0:15:05But what I found out was that Johnny and Morrissey wrote on a little card around that time
0:15:05 > 0:15:13that they were the Smiths - everybody around them could be sacked at any point,
0:15:13 > 0:15:18nobody else can disagree with anything Johnny and Morrissey say -
0:15:18 > 0:15:22and they both signed it in Joe's presence.
0:15:22 > 0:15:28Charming man! Talking of which, at No 30, these are the Smiths!
0:15:28 > 0:15:31Business always came second to the music.
0:15:31 > 0:15:38With the release of their second single, and just a year after Morrissey and Marr met,
0:15:38 > 0:15:41the Smiths were on Top Of The Pops.
0:15:41 > 0:15:48# Punctured bicycle On a hillside so desolate
0:15:48 > 0:15:52# Will nature make a man of me yet...? #
0:15:52 > 0:15:56Joe would give us all a pair of black Crazyfaze jeans.
0:15:56 > 0:16:02Then we went to Marks & Spencer and bought crew-neck jumpers.
0:16:02 > 0:16:06I think Johnny had a black one. I had a maroon one.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09We went down to make-up.
0:16:09 > 0:16:14They put our make-up on and they said, "What will you wear for TOTP?"
0:16:14 > 0:16:17We said, "THIS is what we'll wear."
0:16:17 > 0:16:20 They were like, "You're joking?!"
0:16:22 > 0:16:26MIKE JOYCE: We saw Paul Young's band come out
0:16:26 > 0:16:31and it's these silver sparkle suits and hair and glitter and everything.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34It was just overpowering!
0:16:34 > 0:16:42But sometimes, when you see some of the people that are on stage and some of the groups on stage,
0:16:42 > 0:16:50it looks like an incredibly exotic, formulated, strange world that pop music lives in.
0:16:51 > 0:16:57A great Morrissey lyric - "It says nothing to me about my life". Quite.
0:16:57 > 0:17:01INTRO: "What Difference Does It Make?"
0:17:01 > 0:17:06People need really straightforward things for a change.
0:17:06 > 0:17:11It stretches beyond music - it's to do with the economic climate.
0:17:11 > 0:17:18Instead of living in this rather fantastic, futuristic world, which really isn't quite true,
0:17:18 > 0:17:25because people's daily lives really haven't changed that much. They still have the same problems.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28We're not in a super space age yet.
0:17:28 > 0:17:33# But still I'd leap in front of a flying bullet for you
0:17:33 > 0:17:37# So what difference does it make...? #
0:17:37 > 0:17:44They were glamorous in their own way, but not traditionally. This guy's got NHS glasses and baggy jeans
0:17:44 > 0:17:48and shirts from an old woman's shop.
0:17:48 > 0:17:51He went on about basically being asexual.
0:17:51 > 0:17:58At the same, there was this strange dichotomy that he was very sensual. His appeal was a thing apart.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03# But I'm still fond of you... #
0:18:03 > 0:18:10SCOTT PIERING: Morrissey especially and the band generally had almost an equal amount of male and female fans.
0:18:10 > 0:18:15Obviously, it spoke to both sides, and I'm sure it spoke to a lot of...
0:18:15 > 0:18:18gay people who were in the closet.
0:18:18 > 0:18:24It gave them an inner strength. It didn't say, "Come out!" It said the opposite - "Appreciate this.
0:18:24 > 0:18:29"This is what I am, and I'm conducting my life in public."
0:18:31 > 0:18:38The Smiths had an adoring following, who made them the biggest guitar band in Britain.
0:18:38 > 0:18:45Their bond with their audience was built upon a stream of singles and albums, and relentless touring.
0:18:45 > 0:18:52The Smiths were the Smiths all the time. Very rarely did we have any time off in that whole five years.
0:18:52 > 0:18:58We were always in the studio or touring. The crowd wanted singles.
0:18:58 > 0:19:04"When's the next one? What'll the sleeve be like?" That was important to us.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07It was a relationship between us.
0:19:07 > 0:19:11# You shut your mouth How can you say...? #
0:19:11 > 0:19:14ANDY ROURKE: We wanted that contact.
0:19:14 > 0:19:19I was saying, "This is a celebration between the band and the audience."
0:19:19 > 0:19:26MIKE JOYCE: We were trying to make people understand a certain kind of music
0:19:26 > 0:19:31that doesn't necessarily have to be "us and them".
0:19:31 > 0:19:36While they were breaking down barriers with their public,
0:19:36 > 0:19:41the Smiths' business arrangements continued to divide the group -
0:19:41 > 0:19:48a situation underlined before their first album by a dramatic evening in Pluto Studios in Manchester.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51We were doing a vocal,
0:19:51 > 0:19:58then he nipped out for some crisps or something. Half an hour went by and he wasn't back.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01We thought, "Oh, right."
0:20:01 > 0:20:06Two hours went by, then three hours, and we didn't know where he was.
0:20:06 > 0:20:11Later on that evening, we got a call from Geoff Travis, saying,
0:20:11 > 0:20:16"He's in Rough Trade. He won't come back till you sort the business."
0:20:16 > 0:20:21So, he didn't come back until the business was sorted out.
0:20:21 > 0:20:29Before he moved on with the band, he wanted to have it established as to what each person would be earning.
0:20:29 > 0:20:35As far as he was concerned, that was Johnny's job to do that, with Mike and Andy.
0:20:35 > 0:20:42Johnny had brought them in. Morrissey doesn't want to be having to go doing that.
0:20:44 > 0:20:49Johnny Marr came in and said, "I'm leaving the band.
0:20:49 > 0:20:56"Morrissey wants me and, er... and him to get a higher percentage - more money."
0:20:57 > 0:21:05And...um...Johnny said, "If you don't accept it, I'm going to leave the band."
0:21:07 > 0:21:10If Johnny Marr would've come in and said,
0:21:10 > 0:21:13"I'm gonna leave the band...
0:21:13 > 0:21:17"BECAUSE Morrissey wants some more money...
0:21:17 > 0:21:22"I'm gonna stay if we all get an equal amount."
0:21:22 > 0:21:29It's a different kind of... Very important, but a slightly different way of looking at it.
0:21:29 > 0:21:34All me and Mike were trying to do was stop Johnny leaving the band,
0:21:34 > 0:21:39which I hope he, in hindsight, realises was a good thing.
0:21:39 > 0:21:44As far as Morrissey was concerned, that was sorted out then.
0:21:44 > 0:21:49But it's well-known that Morrissey doesn't like to write things down.
0:21:49 > 0:21:54We didn't come to an agreement that we would get 25%.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58There was no agreement that we would get less.
0:22:00 > 0:22:04The way in which the Smiths led their business lives, and...
0:22:06 > 0:22:08..you know, Morrissey's...
0:22:10 > 0:22:15..brilliant avoidance of responsibility for his actions,
0:22:15 > 0:22:22perhaps meant they didn't sort out the more basic aspects of their business partnership.
0:22:22 > 0:22:29The way the project worked was things were whispered in corridors and mumbled and discussed briefly.
0:22:29 > 0:22:36And that was a meeting. That was where action happened. That's the way it worked for the entire period.
0:22:36 > 0:22:43JOE MOSS: As soon as Geoff Travis was speaking to me, I knew that that was it for me.
0:22:43 > 0:22:47If Morrissey couldn't come to me to sort that out...
0:22:47 > 0:22:52I'd have sorted it out for him without question. That was the role.
0:22:52 > 0:22:57There was too much of a division then for me to be able to stay.
0:22:57 > 0:23:05I realised that, if I stayed, it was gonna put a strain on Morrissey's relationship with Johnny.
0:23:05 > 0:23:11Joe was going, which was unfathomable to me and really did my head in.
0:23:12 > 0:23:17Cos, you know, our sort of father-figure was gone!
0:23:17 > 0:23:22Once Joe had gone, once he went to America, things changed a great deal.
0:23:22 > 0:23:27Then they're asking Morrissey, "Please do this stuff,"
0:23:27 > 0:23:32and Morrissey maybe wouldn't turn up, or he'd cancel a European tour.
0:23:32 > 0:23:37# Would you like to marry me And if you like you can buy the ring
0:23:37 > 0:23:39# She doesn't care about anything... #
0:23:39 > 0:23:42Nothing happened without Morrissey.
0:23:42 > 0:23:47If he didn't get out of bed, we all went home. That happened often.
0:23:47 > 0:23:54We once cancelled a European tour, with loads of TV slots and live dates,
0:23:54 > 0:23:57at Immigration Control at Heathrow.
0:23:57 > 0:24:04I'm going, "C'mon, let's go..." Morrissey's standing there. Uh-oh! Problem.
0:24:04 > 0:24:11He doesn't wanna go. Is it because he doesn't want to fly? Is he ill? He just didn't wanna go.
0:24:11 > 0:24:16We all turned around. No question - if Morrissey didn't go, nobody went.
0:24:16 > 0:24:21# Panic on the streets of Birmingham
0:24:21 > 0:24:23# I wonder to myself... #
0:24:23 > 0:24:28ANDY ROURKE: I think Morrissey's pretty much unmanageable.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31We'd have managers for a while.
0:24:31 > 0:24:37Initially, they'd aim to please, so they'd do whatever Morrissey asked.
0:24:37 > 0:24:41And what we asked, or whatever. But, um...
0:24:43 > 0:24:50..after a few months, when they'd bedded in, they'd say, "I think we should be doing this..."
0:24:50 > 0:24:58And...if Morrissey said, "No, we're not doing that", if they didn't agree, they'd be fired.
0:24:58 > 0:25:05We had some really good people around us, and they were dumped. That was the pattern that emerged.
0:25:05 > 0:25:10And it was invariably people who I was getting friendly with.
0:25:10 > 0:25:18"So-and-so's... He's got to go. Will you phone him? So-and-so's got to go." I just got tired of it.
0:25:18 > 0:25:23- Who was saying, "So-and-so"? - So-and-so was saying it!
0:25:25 > 0:25:27# I won't share you
0:25:30 > 0:25:32# I won't share you
0:25:32 > 0:25:36# With the drive and ambition
0:25:36 > 0:25:40# The zeal I feel This is my time... #
0:25:40 > 0:25:43That WAS the chemistry of the relationship,
0:25:43 > 0:25:47in that there was inevitably two camps.
0:25:47 > 0:25:51A truce was made between those worlds to create this work.
0:25:51 > 0:25:59When the intrigues and the politics of the camps began to intrude on the work, that's when it fell apart.
0:25:59 > 0:26:06# No, no, no, no, no, no, no No, no, no, no, no, no. #
0:26:07 > 0:26:15It started to just come to me mind over a period of 18 months that, well, there IS one solution.
0:26:15 > 0:26:22I mean, it was just something I didn't even want to think about. I thought, "What's the solution?"
0:26:22 > 0:26:25We did the last album, my favourite.
0:26:25 > 0:26:32But directly after making it, things got a bit weird. The atmosphere was weird between us.
0:26:32 > 0:26:38I said, "That's it. I fancy a two-week holiday." I was just treated like a pariah.
0:26:38 > 0:26:41I thought, "With all the crap -
0:26:41 > 0:26:48"managers coming and going like it was a revolving door, the weird atmosphere around the band..."
0:26:48 > 0:26:53Plus, musically, I was starting to want to do other things.
0:26:53 > 0:26:59I thought, "Now's the right time for it to finish, you know."
0:26:59 > 0:27:01And I said...
0:27:01 > 0:27:08"We can do one more album, at least." I think that was the worst thing I could've said.
0:27:08 > 0:27:15Johnny just couldn't... I don't think he could actually make us feel just how upset he was.
0:27:15 > 0:27:19I didn't know what I was going to do, at all.
0:27:19 > 0:27:26No idea, but I thought, "It's all right. Signing on is better than this." Really.
0:27:26 > 0:27:34I think he might have had a nervous breakdown. He'd had enough of all the pressure and needed a break.
0:27:34 > 0:27:41He went on holiday. Just before he came back, there was a story - I don't know who put it out -
0:27:41 > 0:27:44in the NME that Johnny had left.
0:27:44 > 0:27:51So, he was obviously pissed off, and he said, "Fuck it. I HAVE left the band."
0:27:51 > 0:27:56Did that cause a rift, a personal rift, between you and Morrissey?
0:27:58 > 0:28:02God! You're not kidding! ..You're not kidding.
0:28:02 > 0:28:05We didn't speak for a long time.
0:28:05 > 0:28:10 There was stuff between us in the Press, which I had to back out of.
0:28:10 > 0:28:14"Hate" was a big word around that time.
0:28:20 > 0:28:27Ten years later, Morrissey and Marr were back together, but this time, in the High Court in London,
0:28:27 > 0:28:34to defend an action brought by Mike Joyce, who successfully claimed an equal share of the record royalties.
0:28:34 > 0:28:39Bassist Andy Rourke settled out of court and continues to receive 10%.
0:28:41 > 0:28:46Morrissey, who declined to take part in this film,
0:28:46 > 0:28:51has petitioned the House of Lords to get this judgment overturned.
0:28:54 > 0:29:00# I started something I forced you to a zone
0:29:00 > 0:29:04# And you were clearly Never meant to go
0:29:08 > 0:29:17# Hair brushed and parted Typical me, typical me, typical me I started something
0:29:17 > 0:29:20# And now I'm not too sure. #
0:29:22 > 0:29:27To me, they were the best band out of England from 1982-87.
0:29:27 > 0:29:31And the best rock band in the world at that time,
0:29:31 > 0:29:34 without anyone coming anywhere near us.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36Uh...
0:29:39 > 0:29:41No contest.