0:00:03 > 0:00:06On August 8th, the riots came to Croydon, South London.
0:00:06 > 0:00:09RIOTERS SHOUT
0:00:14 > 0:00:19Using mobile phones, bystanders record the turmoil.
0:00:21 > 0:00:22'You've got young people
0:00:22 > 0:00:25'that have got so much bottled up inside of them
0:00:25 > 0:00:28'that they're using this opportunity to let off.
0:00:28 > 0:00:32'You've got a lot of young people out here that are just sheer evil.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35'It's horrible out here, it's, it's like a war zone.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37'It is nasty out here.'
0:00:38 > 0:00:43- SIREN BLARES - In the next 12 hours, 2,000 rioters take to the streets.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45And a crowd gathers at Reeves Corner,
0:00:45 > 0:00:48named after the town's oldest family-run business.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53Jesus Christ, this is absolutely crazy!
0:00:53 > 0:00:56As local people look on in horror,
0:00:56 > 0:01:00Maurice Reeves is completely unaware of the destruction.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03It was my wedding anniversary and I was up in London,
0:01:03 > 0:01:05in the National Gallery.
0:01:05 > 0:01:07We had a lovely meal out.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11I came back and put the television on.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13This is BBC news with a special programme on the riots
0:01:13 > 0:01:17which have spread across London and to other major cities in England.
0:01:17 > 0:01:21And with the next second, there was my building on fire.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25Those memories are etched in my mind.
0:01:26 > 0:01:29Dreadful. It was cruel, really cruel.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34They didn't steal anything - wanton destruction.
0:01:52 > 0:01:56For two days following the riots, Croydon continues to burn.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06Local people start to clear up the wreckage of their community.
0:02:17 > 0:02:21Demolition crews move in, knocking down damaged buildings,
0:02:21 > 0:02:25including the one in which Maurice Reeves' family business
0:02:25 > 0:02:28had existed for nearly 150 years.
0:02:39 > 0:02:41What a dreadful state.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52This feels devastating.
0:02:52 > 0:02:55A cruel blow struck in your heart, isn't it?
0:02:57 > 0:03:01My grandfather lived here, my father lived here
0:03:01 > 0:03:03and my great-grandfather lived here.
0:03:04 > 0:03:07I just think they're looking above
0:03:07 > 0:03:11and wondering what on earth is going on with Croydon.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16Within a week of the riots,
0:03:16 > 0:03:18despite a recent heart scare,
0:03:18 > 0:03:2280-year-old Maurice Reeves has made a dramatic decision.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25Dan, we've got those lamps coming in, haven't we?
0:03:25 > 0:03:27Yeah, they've been ordered today...
0:03:27 > 0:03:29After 15 years in retirement, he's back,
0:03:29 > 0:03:32leading the company through this crisis.
0:03:32 > 0:03:36Well, I think they're doing what I said.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39Yes, they've put one there, the one in the window I'm going to take out.
0:03:39 > 0:03:46Though badly damaged, this second, smaller store survived the riot.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49We've got to condense some of this down.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52Over the road we were noted for sofas and three-piece suites and...
0:03:52 > 0:03:54we can't stock everything.
0:03:54 > 0:03:56Some of it's got to go!
0:03:59 > 0:04:03My old man, he needs to have a few days off, I think.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06He's getting on a bit. He was in hospital only a month ago.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10I don't want anything happening to him, that would be disastrous.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13So he needs to just take his foot off the gas a little bit.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18- INTERVIEWER: - How are you feeling in yourself?
0:04:18 > 0:04:22Every time I go downstairs, people want me, so, em...
0:04:22 > 0:04:25I try and stay away from everybody at the moment!
0:04:26 > 0:04:28That's it in a nutshell.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31Yeah, I'll tell Maurice. I'll tell him, OK, bye-bye.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35The Germans are here.
0:04:35 > 0:04:36The Germans are here! >
0:04:36 > 0:04:38And they're very, very nice, apparently.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45As well as working out a survival strategy for the company,
0:04:45 > 0:04:48Maurice has found himself thrown into the media spotlight.
0:04:48 > 0:04:51I've forgotten whether they're Russian or German.
0:04:51 > 0:04:52They're German, aren't they?
0:04:52 > 0:04:54Well, that's the front door, here.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58I've been walking over here for nearly 80 years.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02Been like my home, but it's all gone, finished.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05I saw riots in Croydon and I thought,
0:05:05 > 0:05:08"Well, I hope it's not near my shop."
0:05:08 > 0:05:09It was my wedding anniversary.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12I was...at home.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15The demand for press and media interviews is relentless.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18So, too, is the attention of public figures.
0:05:18 > 0:05:23I'll never forget talking to Maurice Reeves - 100 years of hard work
0:05:23 > 0:05:27burnt to the ground in just a few hours.
0:05:27 > 0:05:28'When I was a schoolboy,
0:05:28 > 0:05:30'if we picked up a stone and threw it at a policeman,'
0:05:30 > 0:05:32we were put in jail.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35What would you say to those people?
0:05:35 > 0:05:38I don't know what to say, I'm just astounded by the severe violence.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41This happens and we don't understand it.
0:05:42 > 0:05:44My old man's out there.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47He's done a good job, we wheel him out.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49And he's quite good in front of a camera, I think.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53Myself and Trevor keep it a little bit back,
0:05:53 > 0:05:57cos we've got to try and take some money again.
0:05:57 > 0:06:02I'm getting more tired, but we'll be having a break soon, I hope.
0:06:02 > 0:06:06Anyway, if you excuse me, I have to go and do what I should be doing.
0:06:06 > 0:06:07Thank you.
0:06:23 > 0:06:25Two weeks after the riot,
0:06:25 > 0:06:28Maurice has collapsed during a routine hospital appointment.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34No, I'm not happy at all.
0:06:36 > 0:06:37Far from it.
0:06:39 > 0:06:40I don't want to be here, really.
0:06:42 > 0:06:43I've got a job to do.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Em...but that's life.
0:06:47 > 0:06:49I can't do anything about it.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51I remember coming into the hospital and thinking,
0:06:51 > 0:06:53"Oh, all these poor people here,"
0:06:53 > 0:06:56I was walking around, next minute I'm here! HE LAUGHS
0:06:56 > 0:06:58Very depressing.
0:06:58 > 0:06:59HE SNIFFS
0:06:59 > 0:07:02But I've just got to get well and get out and get down there again.
0:07:14 > 0:07:18PHONES RING
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Whilst Maurice is in hospital, his sons Graham and Trevor
0:07:25 > 0:07:28try and keep the business going.
0:07:28 > 0:07:30I've lost me stapler.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35I think what's happened with Trevor is that he's got...
0:07:35 > 0:07:37We're meant to pay all the people today.
0:07:37 > 0:07:42But the wages people...I don't think he's got the wages through to them.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45So he's in a flap cos we've got to get that done.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49If not, we'll have... Well, we did have a riot
0:07:49 > 0:07:52but we don't want to have a riot with the staff, do we?
0:07:52 > 0:07:55This finds out how much money we've physically lost in that shop
0:07:55 > 0:07:57and we can't find out until I finish this.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01There's some products here which haven't sold well
0:08:01 > 0:08:02and they're on my stock sheets.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05I certainly don't want to wish a fire on anybody
0:08:05 > 0:08:07but if these items WERE in a fire...
0:08:09 > 0:08:11..I would've been very happy to see them go,
0:08:11 > 0:08:14cos they are nightmare, I can't get rid of them for love nor money!
0:08:21 > 0:08:23Those two shops...
0:08:24 > 0:08:25Dear, oh, dear.
0:08:25 > 0:08:28I remember designing these letters.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31A few days after his discharge from hospital,
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Maurice is at home, convalescing.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35There's the...shop
0:08:35 > 0:08:38I've actually written on there, "January, 1987."
0:08:39 > 0:08:40I adored that shop.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44Of course, I spent all my life doing it...
0:08:45 > 0:08:47..only to be destroyed in one night.
0:08:49 > 0:08:52This would never have occurred when I was young.
0:08:52 > 0:08:57The contrast of people looting, where in my day, they were -
0:08:57 > 0:08:58in the Commonwealth -
0:08:58 > 0:09:00they were shot on sight.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03And there's no reason to say it's going to stop,
0:09:03 > 0:09:06because what's the politicians done about it?
0:09:06 > 0:09:08Well, they're giving heavier sentences now,
0:09:08 > 0:09:11which they should have done before and they're trying to stop it.
0:09:11 > 0:09:12But it's a bit late.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17It's not just the fear that this could happen again
0:09:17 > 0:09:18that worries Maurice,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21it's also the damage done to Croydon's reputation,
0:09:21 > 0:09:24and after just over three weeks, he feels frustrated
0:09:24 > 0:09:28that Croydon and the riots seem to have been forgotten.
0:09:29 > 0:09:33Unfortunately, Croydon gets portrayed on television
0:09:33 > 0:09:36as a pretty rough, bad area.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38But I have the ability because...
0:09:39 > 0:09:43..I have all these people coming to see me from the Government,
0:09:43 > 0:09:45and things like that - to change it.
0:09:45 > 0:09:48Yes, I think it would be a wonderful thing to do.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51I just have the feeling that the politicians see the riot -
0:09:51 > 0:09:55"Now we'll move on to do something else," and they forget about it.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58This is such an important point in our history.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02- We've never seen riots like this, ever before.- No.
0:10:02 > 0:10:06It's no good passing on and getting on to the economics of the country,
0:10:06 > 0:10:09- let's deal with the riots and put it right.- Yes.
0:10:15 > 0:10:17PHONE RINGS
0:10:21 > 0:10:23- INTERVIEWER: - What are you doing, Elaine?
0:10:23 > 0:10:26I'm trying to find out the name of the people
0:10:26 > 0:10:29that was up at Broad Green that lost their homes.
0:10:31 > 0:10:33Em...Maurice has asked me to do this,
0:10:33 > 0:10:38cos he's quite keen to meet up with them.
0:10:39 > 0:10:40This is the local paper,
0:10:40 > 0:10:42so I'm going to try and see...
0:10:42 > 0:10:45perhaps they could put us in contact with her.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48Does that give a name?
0:10:48 > 0:10:50Em...Charlene.
0:10:52 > 0:10:54A young mum.
0:11:02 > 0:11:06It's a few days later, and Charlene's been in touch
0:11:06 > 0:11:08and offered to show Maurice the remains of her home.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10OK, this is my flat, here.
0:11:12 > 0:11:16My heart's going already and I'm not even through the door!
0:11:17 > 0:11:20On August 8th, she and her five-year-old son
0:11:20 > 0:11:22found themselves surrounded,
0:11:22 > 0:11:25trapped by the riot on London Road.
0:11:26 > 0:11:27Dear, oh, dear.
0:11:28 > 0:11:32- What a tragic mess.- Makes my heart beat every time I come in.
0:11:32 > 0:11:33Skylight.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35So how was this set alight?
0:11:36 > 0:11:39- You know that there was a gold shop on the corner?- Yes.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43It burnt right through that building and then burnt over
0:11:43 > 0:11:47- and only got on this side of the... - Just this side.- ..of the roof.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49That's my bathroom, as well.
0:11:49 > 0:11:51- Yeah.- That's got...no roof at all.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54- Well, you had a nice home here, didn't you?- Yeah.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58And then it was a ruin and it still smells like
0:11:58 > 0:12:00something's still burning in here,
0:12:00 > 0:12:02it's really fresh.
0:12:02 > 0:12:03My son's room -
0:12:03 > 0:12:05but what's so shocking is
0:12:05 > 0:12:09where that fell, the ceiling,
0:12:09 > 0:12:11it was right where he would have been sleeping.
0:12:11 > 0:12:12Was that where he was?
0:12:12 > 0:12:15How long did it take you to get him out?
0:12:15 > 0:12:17When I went downstairs to see what was going on,
0:12:17 > 0:12:19I took him out with me.
0:12:19 > 0:12:21- You took him out with you? - So he was downstairs anyway.
0:12:21 > 0:12:23This is my living room.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25My goodness. What devastation.
0:12:26 > 0:12:29I hope you didn't buy that from Reeves - we're not taking it back!
0:12:29 > 0:12:31- No! - SHE LAUGHS
0:12:31 > 0:12:32No, luckily.
0:12:33 > 0:12:34Just watch your step, though.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37I was sitting up here, looking out the window, watching it.
0:12:37 > 0:12:41So, I could see them coming out the back, here.
0:12:41 > 0:12:43- With loads of musical stuff, from... - Looting the shop.
0:12:43 > 0:12:45Yeah, from that shop there.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48They were just throwing it in the bins.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51Then they smashed through and tried to get into the jewellery shop.
0:12:51 > 0:12:55They were all under here and all the way up that road.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58There must have been a lot of people around here involved in it.
0:12:58 > 0:13:00There was hundreds of people, hundreds.
0:13:00 > 0:13:03People were laughing and joking like it was funny.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06- But I was just scared. - Did they have masks on?
0:13:06 > 0:13:09Yeah, everyone had their hoods up.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12There was a couple of girls out there that had their babies.
0:13:12 > 0:13:17And the fact that people were walking around with guns and knives
0:13:17 > 0:13:21and you're bringing your baby into that environment also.
0:13:21 > 0:13:24Do you think they came from outside the area?
0:13:24 > 0:13:26- No, I think they're from around here...- They are?
0:13:26 > 0:13:28..that's what's so sickening.
0:13:30 > 0:13:31What a delightful lady.
0:13:31 > 0:13:34I'm so sorry she went through all this terrible ordeal.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39Shaken by Charlene's near escape,
0:13:39 > 0:13:41Maurice feels the root of the problem
0:13:41 > 0:13:44lies with the apparent greed of MPs.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48I think the people who did this... took everything.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51Everything they could take, they didn't care.
0:13:51 > 0:13:55They knew the police wouldn't touch them, they let them get on with it,
0:13:55 > 0:13:57so they just went riot.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00And as soon as you lose control of authority,
0:14:00 > 0:14:03when people don't know what right is from wrong, yeah.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06- INTERVIEWER: - D'you think that's how it feels now?
0:14:06 > 0:14:09I think there's a lose of authority of the police and the Government.
0:14:09 > 0:14:13The Government's example is atrocious with their expenses.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17People aren't stupid, they know what's gone on
0:14:17 > 0:14:20and they are going to retaliate about all that.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25I hope that they get what they deserve for what they've done.
0:14:25 > 0:14:30- INTERVIEWER:- So, it's not about trying to understand them and feel sorry for them?
0:14:30 > 0:14:32No. No, I don't feel sorry for them at all!
0:14:32 > 0:14:34Not in the slightest.
0:14:34 > 0:14:38You've got a brain, you know? You use your brain.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41You know you're going to hurt people or possibly kill people.
0:14:41 > 0:14:43You've got your own mind,
0:14:43 > 0:14:46you took it upon yourself to go and do that,
0:14:46 > 0:14:50so I don't feel sorry for any of them at all, none of them.
0:14:50 > 0:14:52They shouldn't have done it in the first place.
0:14:52 > 0:14:54There's no need for it.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58So, whatever happens when they go to court...
0:14:58 > 0:15:01good, good, that's what I say, good.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09Charlene, along with nearly 100 other local families,
0:15:09 > 0:15:11have been made homeless by the riots.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17Croydon itself was a victim of 430 crimes,
0:15:17 > 0:15:19the highest level in the country.
0:15:22 > 0:15:26Nationally, almost 15,000 people took part in the riots.
0:15:28 > 0:15:30Over 5,000 crimes were committed...
0:15:31 > 0:15:34..and five people lost their lives.
0:15:46 > 0:15:49PHONE RINGS
0:15:52 > 0:15:54All right, sir.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59That's really kind of you. Thank you, sir, that's fantastic.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01"Good luck, seize the day
0:16:01 > 0:16:03"and put the least possible trust into tomorrow."
0:16:04 > 0:16:08That's fantastic. People are just amazing, aren't they? Amazing.
0:16:08 > 0:16:10We'll put that on the board.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12We've had enormous amounts of cards
0:16:12 > 0:16:15and well-wishers and things from different people.
0:16:16 > 0:16:19And you think when all the horrible stuff goes on
0:16:19 > 0:16:21that everyone's horrible,
0:16:21 > 0:16:23but overall, people are amazing.
0:16:23 > 0:16:25There's an awful lot of nice people in the world,
0:16:25 > 0:16:28trouble is, all the focus goes on the horrible people,
0:16:28 > 0:16:29instead of the nice people.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31Yeah, it's very nice, very touching.
0:16:37 > 0:16:41Hundreds of cards from around the world have been pouring in,
0:16:41 > 0:16:45but it's those from local children that are touching Maurice most.
0:16:45 > 0:16:47The writing is...
0:16:48 > 0:16:50..well, lovely.
0:16:53 > 0:16:57"I think the riots were pointless and I wish it'd never happened."
0:16:57 > 0:16:59Well, it's tearful, really.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04I mean, children write from the heart, don't they, really?
0:17:04 > 0:17:06And that's what we've got here.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12"The rioting was dreadful. People lost their homes and businesses,
0:17:12 > 0:17:15"especially on London Road.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18"Hopefully Croydon will be back to normal soon."
0:17:19 > 0:17:22"I described this night as a hideous night.
0:17:23 > 0:17:26"It just gives me nightmares."
0:17:27 > 0:17:30"I was shocked, I was very shocked.
0:17:32 > 0:17:37"It was the rioters who burnt your shop. Rioters are very shocking."
0:17:38 > 0:17:40It comes across in all these letters -
0:17:40 > 0:17:43they don't like it and they don't want it.
0:17:44 > 0:17:46They don't want riots, they don't want this.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49They want England to be like I know it were, when I was a kid.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52It was a lovely place to be.
0:17:53 > 0:17:55So, we have to put it right, don't we?
0:17:56 > 0:17:58There has to be a change of heart
0:17:58 > 0:18:01but there has to be the willpower to do it.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11- DAVID CAMERON: - 'These riots were not about race,
0:18:11 > 0:18:16'the perpetrators and the victims were white, black and Asian.'
0:18:16 > 0:18:18In the weeks following the riots,
0:18:18 > 0:18:21a national debate has broken out across the airways.
0:18:21 > 0:18:24'For months, young people have said, "A riot could take place here." '
0:18:24 > 0:18:27'You can't control us. We see the opportunity and take it.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29'No-one's got any money,
0:18:29 > 0:18:32'so they're trying to make what they can, while they can.'
0:18:32 > 0:18:35'I've got no respect for them and they wonder why youth go mad!
0:18:35 > 0:18:37'We're going mad cos you're not respecting us.'
0:18:37 > 0:18:41- THERESA MAY:- 'The violence, the looting and the thuggery we've seen,
0:18:41 > 0:18:44'this is sheer criminality and let's make no bones about it,
0:18:44 > 0:18:47'these people will be brought to justice.'
0:18:47 > 0:18:49'It was agreed that stop-and-search is necessary
0:18:49 > 0:18:52'but there's concern amongst law-abiding young people
0:18:52 > 0:18:55'that they're being stopped and not treated with respect...'
0:18:55 > 0:18:59'We are fed up. We get searched, we get pulled over for nothing,
0:18:59 > 0:19:01'it's our kind of way of rebelling.'
0:19:03 > 0:19:05Maurice feels his role
0:19:05 > 0:19:08is to keep the plight of his home town in the media spotlight.
0:19:08 > 0:19:11He's been championing the recovery of Croydon's businesses,
0:19:11 > 0:19:14and what he's hearing is worrying him.
0:19:14 > 0:19:15Today, he's meeting a couple
0:19:15 > 0:19:19who've suffered an horrendous ordeal at the hands of the rioters.
0:19:19 > 0:19:20Maurice Reeves.
0:19:20 > 0:19:23- Hi, Binu Mathew.- Reeves Corner. - How do you do?
0:19:23 > 0:19:26- What's your name? - My name is Binu Mathew.
0:19:26 > 0:19:27Binu Mathew.
0:19:27 > 0:19:31- My wife, Lisy George. - Hello, lovely to meet you.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33- I'm Lisy.- Right.
0:19:33 > 0:19:35So what happened to the shop, did they smash the window?
0:19:35 > 0:19:38They smashed everything. They broke everything.
0:19:38 > 0:19:42They put me in that corner, in the frame of the shop front.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45They just pulled me up and...
0:19:45 > 0:19:48punch, pull and then kept on punching.
0:19:48 > 0:19:50They were hitting his face.
0:19:50 > 0:19:53And they got...you know...
0:19:53 > 0:19:56the stolen guitars and things from that main side,
0:19:56 > 0:20:02they hit me with that on my head, and I was completely bleeding.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08And almost everybody, they were in.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11- I can say below 20, maybe. - Yeah, between 15 to 25.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15After about ten or 15 minutes,
0:20:15 > 0:20:18this gang rushed across the shop.
0:20:20 > 0:20:23Binu and his wife finally managed to get out of their shop
0:20:23 > 0:20:25and tried to escape in their white van,
0:20:25 > 0:20:29but are stopped on the road by rioters.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33Within a few seconds, again this crowd surrounded my car.
0:20:33 > 0:20:38I didn't want to give the keys to them, so they punched into the car
0:20:38 > 0:20:40and then put a hand in my pocket
0:20:40 > 0:20:44and then they found somewhere around £900 in my pocket.
0:20:46 > 0:20:48Who else was there, in the crowd?
0:20:48 > 0:20:51- Boys were there and girls were there.- Girls were there?
0:20:51 > 0:20:53Yes, yes, even I realised that,
0:20:53 > 0:20:57a girl punched me on the traffic light, in the van.
0:20:57 > 0:20:59I can't believe what I'm hearing.
0:20:59 > 0:21:02Then they pulled me and my wife out from the car.
0:21:02 > 0:21:08We ran away from that point and we sheltered in the next flat upstairs.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10But after that...
0:21:10 > 0:21:13You're going to stay here, presumably, and fight it out,
0:21:13 > 0:21:15the British spirit, as Mr Cameron said?
0:21:15 > 0:21:19Even if my stand is still not clear,
0:21:19 > 0:21:22my mind is not made up till now,
0:21:22 > 0:21:25whether I want to continue or discontinue,
0:21:25 > 0:21:27cos I'm in that position.
0:21:29 > 0:21:31- INTERVIEWER: - What did you think, Maurice?
0:21:31 > 0:21:33Well, it's worse than I thought.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36They're either stupid...
0:21:37 > 0:21:40..or they're intelligent, or they're just...
0:21:41 > 0:21:42..bloody brave,
0:21:42 > 0:21:46cos I felt uneasy in the shop, after they'd spoken.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49I know Croydon's not like this, and that's what worries me.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53Croydon is not like this. We're seeing a part of Croydon which is...
0:21:54 > 0:21:58..the worst of... Probably every city's got it,
0:21:58 > 0:22:01but what he's describing is physical violence.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03It's totally unacceptable.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06What the hell are we doing, are we allowing?!
0:22:06 > 0:22:09Why are Britain and the judiciaries allowing what's happening?
0:22:13 > 0:22:16For the first time, Maurice is in real doubt
0:22:16 > 0:22:19about whether there is a future for his family business in Croydon.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24I think the riots could occur again.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27Why should I rebuild my shop?
0:22:27 > 0:22:30- It's a big dilemma for you. - It is a huge dilemma.
0:22:32 > 0:22:34I'm really frightened of what's going on.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39I don't like what I hear.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41I don't like what I see sometimes.
0:22:42 > 0:22:46I'm in a dilemma about it and so are my two boys as well.
0:22:51 > 0:22:56Look at this! This is the pavement.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58Back at Reeves Corner, Maurice is also frustrated
0:22:58 > 0:23:03with the time it's taking to repair the damaged area outside the shop.
0:23:03 > 0:23:08Look at the hole and they want us to put something up here.
0:23:08 > 0:23:10That's going to be the issue.
0:23:10 > 0:23:13That's glass.
0:23:13 > 0:23:16That's not very nice, is it? Look at the old pub.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18You've got our lovely sign over the road.
0:23:18 > 0:23:19It's a disgrace.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23The council, why don't they make our sign nice?
0:23:23 > 0:23:26Look at this gully.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29Trevor, look at the gully. You'd trip.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31This is the council's fa... You know?
0:23:31 > 0:23:34Don't worry about it.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36Don't worry about it, it's only a bit of...
0:23:36 > 0:23:39Don't worry about it. We've got more things to talk about.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41You don't think I worry about it, but I do worry about it.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43Don't worry about it.
0:23:43 > 0:23:44< I do.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47They probably hit it when they smashed the window, I wouldn't worry.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50Come inside and just forget it.
0:23:50 > 0:23:56'I just think he's getting... It's just too much for the old boy, bless his heart.'
0:23:56 > 0:23:58He's going around there looking at the pavement.
0:23:58 > 0:24:00Off his head, isn't he?
0:24:00 > 0:24:03Not our problem. The pavement is the pavement.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06If there's bits wrong, there's bits wrong all over the place.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08He's getting himself into a state.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10I told him to go in the office and have a cup of tea.
0:24:12 > 0:24:17'He's struggling with the whole idea and it's a huge thing to undertake.'
0:24:17 > 0:24:20'He's gone round and had a look around Croydon
0:24:20 > 0:24:23'and it's affected him big time.'
0:24:23 > 0:24:27He's gone and met people who've had some terrible things happen to them,
0:24:27 > 0:24:30and it's put him in a whole different perspective
0:24:30 > 0:24:33to how he's been before this fire.
0:24:33 > 0:24:39Now, he's had a wake up call as to what society is like here.
0:24:39 > 0:24:41He's finding it hard to deal with.
0:24:41 > 0:24:44David, could you just concentrate on this back?
0:24:44 > 0:24:48- No, I've got to get this order off. - You've been doing that a long while.
0:24:48 > 0:24:49No, I haven't.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53You've got lights here and they aren't on the wall.
0:24:53 > 0:24:54This looks dreadful.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57Robert, can we do this back wall, make it look nice, please?
0:24:57 > 0:25:00- Get the pictures up. - You want more pictures on the wall?
0:25:00 > 0:25:03Yes, get the lamps going. See this lamp round here standing up?
0:25:03 > 0:25:07I went all the lamps on the back wall and round the corner.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09Go and find all the lamps and get them put back up.
0:25:09 > 0:25:12And get these pictures up.
0:25:13 > 0:25:15Maurice's trip to the London Road
0:25:15 > 0:25:17is still at the forefront of his mind
0:25:17 > 0:25:20and he wants to share his concerns with his sons.
0:25:22 > 0:25:28Where I went yesterday... I mean, I was visibly shaken.
0:25:28 > 0:25:32This greengrocers place has been attacked.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35Pulled over his car and punched in the face.
0:25:35 > 0:25:36Has he called the police?
0:25:36 > 0:25:38Police might pick them up but what do they do?
0:25:38 > 0:25:41Got to catch them in the act, can't get there in time.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44They've done the best they can, the police, they can always do better.
0:25:44 > 0:25:46They've given out harsh sentences.
0:25:46 > 0:25:49Some of them are of draconian.
0:25:49 > 0:25:53People deserve to be locked up when they do these terrible things
0:25:53 > 0:25:54and I go along with that.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57I definitely think the police have been locking up people.
0:25:57 > 0:26:00< They should've put these harsh sentences before.
0:26:00 > 0:26:02< Why the change?
0:26:02 > 0:26:04< Three strikes and you're out.
0:26:04 > 0:26:06< Some have been doing it for 10 strikes.
0:26:06 > 0:26:10I want zero tolerance. I told Cameron that.
0:26:10 > 0:26:13What's the point of letting them out to re-offend?
0:26:13 > 0:26:16You've either got to help them more, try and get them a job,
0:26:16 > 0:26:18try and get them a roof over their head
0:26:18 > 0:26:20and try and do something or lock them up for a long time.
0:26:20 > 0:26:23If you lock them up for a long time, it costs you a fortune.
0:26:23 > 0:26:26If you can get them back into communities so they're paying tax,
0:26:26 > 0:26:30working and being decent people, that's better all round.
0:26:30 > 0:26:34They've been trying to rehabilitate these people for years and years.
0:26:34 > 0:26:35Nobody does it.
0:26:35 > 0:26:37We've still got the problem here and we've got it worse.
0:26:37 > 0:26:43We've got the riots and 144 years and it's banged down.
0:26:43 > 0:26:46There's Mr Reeves.
0:26:46 > 0:26:50He founded our business and I often think of him
0:26:50 > 0:26:55because it's been burnt down now by these...scummy people.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58I don't like it and I want it put right.
0:27:04 > 0:27:07It's three months after the riot.
0:27:07 > 0:27:11The restoration work on the surviving shop is nearly complete,
0:27:11 > 0:27:14and public interest in the fate of Reeves is still strong.
0:27:15 > 0:27:20That was a lovely letter that somebody had sent in to the...
0:27:20 > 0:27:21our local paper.
0:27:23 > 0:27:29And this is a newspaper article that somebody sent us from Canada.
0:27:29 > 0:27:33And, erm, more or less every day there is always a note
0:27:33 > 0:27:34or an e-mail.
0:27:37 > 0:27:39- Make yourself at home. - Thank you very much.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42Perhaps we can persuade you to buy something. LAUGHTER
0:27:42 > 0:27:46Maurice's heightened media profile has caught the attention of two
0:27:46 > 0:27:50local community leaders, Tony Harrison and Pat Reid.
0:27:50 > 0:27:54They work with young people who've been in trouble with the law
0:27:54 > 0:27:57or gang violence and in the wake of the riots,
0:27:57 > 0:28:00are trying to build links between Croydon youth and employers.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03What I'd like you to do is see if you could come
0:28:03 > 0:28:05and meet some young people.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07Yes.
0:28:07 > 0:28:08Have a chat, see how they feel.
0:28:08 > 0:28:13Because what we're looking to do is to get the business community,
0:28:13 > 0:28:18the older generation, talking to the younger people.
0:28:18 > 0:28:24I think for too long there has been an issue of an us-and-them scenario.
0:28:24 > 0:28:26If I can do anything to help, I will do.
0:28:26 > 0:28:29Because I've seen so much of it now.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33I'm trying to show what can be done with a lick of paint and...
0:28:35 > 0:28:37..well, an enthusiasm.
0:28:37 > 0:28:39Enthusiasm for life, if you like.
0:28:39 > 0:28:44A lot of young people have never met someone who has been
0:28:44 > 0:28:47socially successful in their life.
0:28:47 > 0:28:50Some people from different cultures have never sat down and had
0:28:50 > 0:28:55an intelligent conversation with an older white man or older black man.
0:28:55 > 0:28:56- It's just never happened.- No.
0:28:56 > 0:29:03So for you to leave here and to come with us to where these people exist,
0:29:03 > 0:29:09into their environment, OK? Is an incredible first-time opportunity.
0:29:09 > 0:29:13I'm quite wiling to go. As I have explained, I'm not going to
0:29:13 > 0:29:14change my mind, I will do it.
0:29:14 > 0:29:17I say what I mean, you won't get me changing my mind.
0:29:19 > 0:29:23It's two days later and the imminent meeting with the young people
0:29:23 > 0:29:26is starting to concern Maurice.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29I don't know whether, you know, reform school,
0:29:29 > 0:29:31or whether they've been in prison or...
0:29:31 > 0:29:35I really don't know what I'm meeting, that's the trouble.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38I don't know who they are or what they are or what they've done,
0:29:38 > 0:29:42- if anything. - Most people, at heart, are nice. There's only a few rotten ones.
0:29:42 > 0:29:46- You'll probably find they're nice. - But there are rotten ones,
0:29:46 > 0:29:49I don't want to meet them. Anyway, I'm having a few nightmares about it.
0:29:49 > 0:29:53Yesterday I punched Ann in the face nearly when I was asleep.
0:29:54 > 0:29:57I was dreaming, I was trying to fight!
0:29:57 > 0:30:01I'm going through it even though I haven't even seen them yet.
0:30:01 > 0:30:05- Just keep an open mind.- I will, I will. I will keep an open mind.
0:30:05 > 0:30:07But I know what to expect.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10You might find they're very positive, wait and see.
0:30:16 > 0:30:21So, um, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing. Um...
0:30:21 > 0:30:26I shall ad lib it and see what happens. Do my best.
0:30:28 > 0:30:32The meeting is taking place at a local community organisation.
0:30:32 > 0:30:35Some of the group Maurice is meeting have been in trouble
0:30:35 > 0:30:38with the police in the past, others have not,
0:30:38 > 0:30:41but all feel strongly about the riots.
0:30:41 > 0:30:44Hello. Well, lovely to meet you.
0:30:44 > 0:30:46You too.
0:30:46 > 0:30:50I don't expect you know me very well but I was the man who had the fire.
0:30:50 > 0:30:53And the shop was burnt down. Did you see it on television?
0:30:53 > 0:30:55- Yeah.- You've all seen it.
0:30:55 > 0:30:58Erm, you tell me why all of a sudden was it burnt down?
0:30:58 > 0:31:02I don't think anybody specifically targeted your shop.
0:31:02 > 0:31:04I think it was a moment of madness.
0:31:04 > 0:31:08Maybe somebody was running past and thought, "Another shop."
0:31:08 > 0:31:11I think to a degree people felt that they didn't have anything to lose.
0:31:11 > 0:31:16If every day you're walking down the street and being stopped and searched just for being there.
0:31:16 > 0:31:19People are going to have rage. So at that specific moment in time,
0:31:19 > 0:31:22they thought, "You know what? I'm going to do this
0:31:22 > 0:31:24"because I think the police need to understand
0:31:24 > 0:31:27"that you can't treat certain people this way."
0:31:27 > 0:31:30There's got to be a better way than burning shops down
0:31:30 > 0:31:32and being like this.
0:31:32 > 0:31:34All this does is alienate everybody.
0:31:34 > 0:31:37I don't think it's wrong for police to stop and search people
0:31:37 > 0:31:42because at the end of the day they have to do their job, but just don't...
0:31:43 > 0:31:48Don't abuse your power. Stop one person like 10 times a day.
0:31:48 > 0:31:49That's a bit too much.
0:31:49 > 0:31:53What happened to me, right, when I was young, I was in a gang.
0:31:53 > 0:31:54My history is different to you.
0:31:54 > 0:31:57I've been stabbed 20 times, I've been shot once.
0:31:57 > 0:32:02So I've been through the things like proper bad so,
0:32:02 > 0:32:06I made up my mind, I said, "It's not going to take me nowhere."
0:32:06 > 0:32:11So I stopped being in a gang about...when I was 16. I'm 20 now.
0:32:11 > 0:32:13And from a 20-year-old,
0:32:13 > 0:32:16for the police to come down to your house and kick down your door
0:32:16 > 0:32:19because when you was 15 and 16 the things you used to do,
0:32:19 > 0:32:20that is not right.
0:32:20 > 0:32:23But I don't like what is happening in society.
0:32:23 > 0:32:28And you don't like it. We are both the same. We both don't like it.
0:32:28 > 0:32:29I don't know how to change it.
0:32:29 > 0:32:33All the government's done, all the government's done,
0:32:33 > 0:32:36is the 1,500 or 2,000 people they put in prison,
0:32:36 > 0:32:39they've now created 2,000 criminals that's going to come out.
0:32:39 > 0:32:41When they come out, 100% can't get jobs.
0:32:41 > 0:32:44- But you've got to answer for your actions.- I understand that.
0:32:44 > 0:32:48- I understand that.- But they could consider the punishment they give.
0:32:48 > 0:32:50So when this lovely man here
0:32:50 > 0:32:53is in a gang you don't think he should go to prison?
0:32:53 > 0:32:56He doesn't have to go to prison if he's not a murderer,
0:32:56 > 0:32:59- if he's not a killer, if he's not a rapist.- Is there any punishment?
0:32:59 > 0:33:03Of course, there's community... community service you can do.
0:33:03 > 0:33:07And trust me, doing community service is worse than going
0:33:07 > 0:33:10to prison because you have to wake up at certain times
0:33:10 > 0:33:12and if you miss that,
0:33:12 > 0:33:14they add more hours on or you're going to prison.
0:33:14 > 0:33:17I'm sorry it's the fire that brought us all together.
0:33:17 > 0:33:21- But wonderful to meet you.- You too. - And you, look after yourself.
0:33:25 > 0:33:28The meeting having gone well, Tony is keen to see if Maurice
0:33:28 > 0:33:31would like to take part in an award ceremony.
0:33:31 > 0:33:36The Black Youth Awards on Saturday evening is going to be
0:33:36 > 0:33:40there celebrating exactly the things we want to see in our young people.
0:33:40 > 0:33:43If you came, and if you wanted to, you wouldn't have to stay long.
0:33:43 > 0:33:49Just a few moments and as a Statesman of Croydon
0:33:49 > 0:33:53to actually present the Sports Award to the young person.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56Give me your number, if I can make it, I will ring you.
0:33:57 > 0:34:01After the discussion there's a chance for Maurice to meet up with
0:34:01 > 0:34:05an 18-year-old who's doing community service for looting during the riots.
0:34:05 > 0:34:09So I hear you got into a bit of trouble with the riots?
0:34:09 > 0:34:11Yes. Yep.
0:34:12 > 0:34:16- Just tell me a little bit about it because I don't know nothing.- Well...
0:34:16 > 0:34:20- With regard to that.- ..I didn't really get involved with the riots.
0:34:20 > 0:34:24I wasn't like doing everything what everyone was doing.
0:34:24 > 0:34:26- Not kicking the windows in? - No. No.
0:34:26 > 0:34:30- I heard a shop getting smashed into so I...- What shop was that?
0:34:30 > 0:34:33It's just a corner shop. They sell fags.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35- Cigarettes and things like that?- Yes.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38There was no police about so a young youth like me,
0:34:38 > 0:34:40you're going to see a shop broken into,
0:34:40 > 0:34:43I think you're not going to really think twice about entering it.
0:34:43 > 0:34:45You didn't think twice?
0:34:45 > 0:34:48- No.- That's your failure there.
0:34:48 > 0:34:50If you was to see £100 on the floor.
0:34:50 > 0:34:54- You're not going to leave it there, are you?- No.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57I quite agree with you there. But that's slightly different, isn't it?
0:34:57 > 0:34:59Because that doesn't belong to anybody.
0:34:59 > 0:35:01You never find out who it is.
0:35:01 > 0:35:04But if you go into a shop and actually take something,
0:35:04 > 0:35:06you know the owner's going to suffer.
0:35:06 > 0:35:09I...I'm sorry for the people whose shops got broken into.
0:35:09 > 0:35:11When you're in a gang and all that...
0:35:11 > 0:35:14Your adrenaline then just kicks over you.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17- You're seeing someone else do it. - Yes.- You're seeing them do it.
0:35:17 > 0:35:21They're walking down the street with a flat screen TV in their hand.
0:35:21 > 0:35:25You see a shop window broken into you're going to enter in the shop.
0:35:25 > 0:35:27If I was 17 or 16, in the old days,
0:35:27 > 0:35:29and somebody was smashing all the windows down.
0:35:29 > 0:35:34I might think, "Well, that's a normal type of thing," and have a go myself.
0:35:34 > 0:35:38I can't...I don't know. But I...I don't think so.
0:35:38 > 0:35:42- I think I would have stood away. - I really do wish I did now.
0:35:42 > 0:35:46That is right and wrong, however much the temptation is.
0:35:46 > 0:35:48But I can understand the other side.
0:35:48 > 0:35:53I cannot understand them burning my shop down.
0:35:53 > 0:35:58They don't get anything out of it. That's just wanton destruction.
0:36:05 > 0:36:09'These people got into trouble very, very early in their lives.
0:36:09 > 0:36:14'So you have to have somebody like Tony to pull them out of it
0:36:14 > 0:36:17'and try to adjust them.
0:36:17 > 0:36:18'I don't know their background.
0:36:18 > 0:36:21'They might not have had any parents or single parents
0:36:21 > 0:36:23'who went out and boozed. I don't know.
0:36:23 > 0:36:26'But if that's the case, they were left to their own devices
0:36:26 > 0:36:30'and bang, their into criminality.'
0:36:32 > 0:36:34'They have changed my views entirely,
0:36:34 > 0:36:37'about the youth of Croydon.'
0:36:38 > 0:36:41It's like them and us if you like.
0:36:41 > 0:36:42But I've come...
0:36:42 > 0:36:45I don't know what I've come from, which side I'm on now.
0:36:47 > 0:36:50But I would certainly like to change it, yeah.
0:36:50 > 0:36:54That's probably why I'm going to go along tomorrow to present these awards.
0:36:57 > 0:37:01Maurice has been invited by Tony to present a sports prize
0:37:01 > 0:37:05at the Black Youth Achievement Awards,
0:37:05 > 0:37:07this year held in Croydon.
0:37:07 > 0:37:11- Good to see you.- And you. My wife, Ann.- Ann.
0:37:11 > 0:37:14This is this wonderful man Tony I've been talking about.
0:37:14 > 0:37:15Yes, I've heard all about you.
0:37:15 > 0:37:18- Hope we haven't taken too much of his time.- No, no.
0:37:18 > 0:37:19Where's Pat? Is he here?
0:37:19 > 0:37:22Tony mentors young people from all walks of life,
0:37:22 > 0:37:25many of them high achievers.
0:37:25 > 0:37:29We're here to celebrate great things that young people
0:37:29 > 0:37:31in our community have done.
0:37:31 > 0:37:33We're here to celebrate you. OK, the winner is...
0:37:36 > 0:37:37..Kyla Frye.
0:37:37 > 0:37:39APPLAUSE
0:37:41 > 0:37:43Kane Solomon Thomas!
0:37:43 > 0:37:45APPLAUSE
0:37:47 > 0:37:50Here to present the award for sports, please give a hand
0:37:50 > 0:37:54for Maurice Reeves of Reeves Corner.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57APPLAUSE
0:38:04 > 0:38:08What a gathering! My goodness!
0:38:08 > 0:38:12The nominees are Liam Curtis,
0:38:12 > 0:38:15Makissa Gilkes,
0:38:15 > 0:38:17Jardel Morris
0:38:17 > 0:38:20and Adesimi Obe-Adewole
0:38:20 > 0:38:22APPLAUSE
0:38:22 > 0:38:25Now you'll want to know the winner, don't you?
0:38:28 > 0:38:29Makissa Jilkes.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32CHEERING
0:38:45 > 0:38:49- Thank you.- Thank you.- Wonderful. What a lovely daughter.
0:38:49 > 0:38:51- Oh, thank you, thank you. - What was your sport?
0:38:51 > 0:38:54- Netball.- Netball? Wonderful.
0:38:54 > 0:38:57She's a lovely lady, isn't she?
0:38:57 > 0:39:01Really good, Maurice. That was fantastic.
0:39:01 > 0:39:03You did really well. Excellent.
0:39:03 > 0:39:05- Lovely people, aren't they?- Yeah.
0:39:05 > 0:39:09- A lovely lady as well.- Yes.
0:39:09 > 0:39:14I can't tell you how much I admire you and Pat. Tremendous achievement.
0:39:14 > 0:39:16'The thing is, Maurice, why I wanted you to see this'
0:39:16 > 0:39:19is because this is the real picture of our youth.
0:39:19 > 0:39:23I just need more people to understand that whilst, yes,
0:39:23 > 0:39:26we do have the sectors that get it wrong,
0:39:26 > 0:39:28- we have more getting it right. - Yeah.
0:39:35 > 0:39:37'If the fire hadn't come along and the riots hadn't come,
0:39:37 > 0:39:42'I wouldn't be doing this journey at all.'
0:39:43 > 0:39:44And, um...
0:39:45 > 0:39:48It's been fascinating, frightening,
0:39:48 > 0:39:51surprising and interesting.
0:39:51 > 0:39:54Do you see yourself, in a years' time,
0:39:54 > 0:39:58laying the foundation for a new shop on the burnt-down site?
0:39:58 > 0:40:03The insurance company have said, "Look, if you don't want to go over there,
0:40:03 > 0:40:05"you can go anywhere else you like."
0:40:05 > 0:40:09We have to consider it, but this is Reeves Corner.
0:40:09 > 0:40:13I don't want to go anywhere else. This is my patch.
0:40:13 > 0:40:17We've got a third of an acre here. Crikey, that's not a bad shop.
0:40:17 > 0:40:22And, um, we're always here.
0:40:22 > 0:40:26We've been here since 1867 and we'll be here for the rest of time.
0:40:26 > 0:40:28We'll always be here.
0:40:43 > 0:40:46Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:40:46 > 0:40:49E-mail: subtitling@bbc.co.uk