:00:01. > :00:07.military commission. We examine the history of their capture and
:00:07. > :00:12.imprisonment. Viewers may find some of the images distressing.
:00:12. > :00:17.Waterboarding, that is a simulated drowning, was one of the most
:00:17. > :00:24.controversial aspects on the war of terror for America. It was carried
:00:24. > :00:29.out by the CIA and video. Jose Rodriguez was the man who ran BCA's
:00:29. > :00:36.top secret programme in the years immediately after SEP- 11, when
:00:36. > :00:46.fears of a second strike were all too real. -- the CIA. When you are
:00:46. > :00:48.
:00:48. > :00:57.waterboarding anyone or use these techniques, it is an honest example.
:00:57. > :01:07.We can now reveal what is on these videos. Was he see? He was not. He
:01:07. > :01:29.
:01:29. > :01:35.was experiencing some physical America's detention centre in
:01:35. > :01:39.Guantanamo Bay, Cuba has become synonymous with torture and the
:01:39. > :01:46.abuses of the war on terror. President Barack Obama promised to
:01:46. > :01:53.shut it down, but has been unable to do so. Instead, he is using
:01:53. > :01:59.Guantanamo Bay as a site for a military tribunal to try Khalid
:01:59. > :02:05.Sheikh Mohammed, and four of his co-conspirators. Torture will
:02:05. > :02:09.become one of the most contentious issues at the trial. The 9/11
:02:09. > :02:16.defendants cases are important terrorism cases of all time. BT is
:02:16. > :02:24.critically important for the public to know what happens, for the truth,
:02:24. > :02:29.however Ardley, to come out -- at is critically. -- however ugly.
:02:29. > :02:34.Today, the painful memories of 9/11 are reflected in a memorial garden
:02:34. > :02:39.at the site where the twin towers once stood. President Barack Obama
:02:39. > :02:45.always wanted Abu Zubaydah to be tried in the dock, the sights of
:02:45. > :02:50.the atrocities that he masterminded on SEP- 11 -- Australian. The
:02:50. > :02:55.Preston had to back down after fierce opposition from the Congress
:02:55. > :03:05.-- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. The trouser nabbing her that Guantanamo
:03:05. > :03:06.
:03:06. > :03:12.Bay. -- the trials are now being held at. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was
:03:12. > :03:17.also involved in other attacks. He was an evil man. He was one of the
:03:17. > :03:23.most evil man that I had ever come across. He was seeking different
:03:23. > :03:28.ways of trying to kill us. And to kill awry lies. Khalid Sheikh
:03:28. > :03:32.Mohammed has admitted to having planned and executed the attacks of
:03:32. > :03:39.11th September. He also admitted that he personally be added the
:03:39. > :03:43.American journalist Daniel Pearl five months after 9/11. He was
:03:43. > :03:50.iconic on the organisation, not just for his role in 9/11, but for
:03:50. > :03:56.his role in Al-Qaeda. For months, the CIA knew nothing about Khalid
:03:56. > :04:00.Sheikh Mohammed, he was just a name on the intelligence database. Well
:04:00. > :04:09.they knew was that the plan of 9/11 was known as Mukhtar, the chosen
:04:09. > :04:13.one. The interrogation was to unlock his true identity. In the
:04:13. > :04:18.months after 9/11, the White House was determined to do all it could
:04:18. > :04:22.to prevent another attack. It took an unprecedented step. It
:04:23. > :04:27.authorised the CIA to use aggressive and highly controversial
:04:27. > :04:37.techniques at its sites. These and hence in interrogation techniques
:04:37. > :04:45.
:04:45. > :04:51.were designed to break the suspects. Abu Zubaydah was the person they
:04:51. > :05:01.tested it on. He knew a lot about the funding and leadership of Al-
:05:01. > :05:05.
:05:05. > :05:09.Qaeda. He was a senior Al-Qaeda figure. He was very smart.
:05:09. > :05:15.Zubaydah was captured in Pakistan's six months after 9/11, following a
:05:15. > :05:19.fierce gun battle in which she was seriously wounded. He was then
:05:19. > :05:24.granted to a secret CIA interrogation centre, known as a
:05:24. > :05:30.black sight. It is believed to be in Thailand. He was initially it
:05:31. > :05:34.into the by FBI agents who never laid a finger on him. Using non-
:05:34. > :05:44.violent interrogation techniques, they got him to deliver the Crown
:05:44. > :05:45.
:05:45. > :05:54.Jewels. The identity of the mastermind of 9/11. When Khalid
:05:54. > :06:04.Sheikh Mohammed's photo came up, Abu Zubaydah grabs me. I wondered
:06:04. > :06:05.
:06:05. > :06:12.if he was playing a game with me. He said that that was Mukhtar. His
:06:12. > :06:15.name had been in the chatter, but we did not know what his name was.
:06:16. > :06:21.The CAA decided that Abu Zubaydah was not giving enough, and a
:06:21. > :06:28.decision was made to activate enhanced interrogation techniques.
:06:28. > :06:35.We were dead in the water. He was shut down and we needed to come up
:06:35. > :06:41.with alternative techniques that would convince the terraced that he
:06:41. > :06:50.-- the terrorist that he had no control over the situation. His
:06:50. > :06:53.fate was in our hands. PCR a's top lawyer believed it was essential to
:06:53. > :07:03.have be secret techniques authorised at the price level --
:07:03. > :07:05.
:07:05. > :07:11.the CIA. I made this decision to make sure we were not going to
:07:11. > :07:16.conduct these kinds of Unprecedented activities without
:07:16. > :07:25.the fall and complete legal policy and approval of the highest levels
:07:25. > :07:29.of the Bush administration. confinement box like a dog kennel
:07:29. > :07:39.was constructed. Abu Zubaydah was shut inside in total darkness for
:07:39. > :07:45.hours on end. He was subjected to the most extreme techniques, being
:07:45. > :07:49.waterboarded 83 times. US government lawyers claim that it's,
:07:49. > :07:59.like other techniques, was lawful because the pain and suffering was
:07:59. > :07:59.
:07:59. > :08:02.not so be it. A top secret memo to John Reserve from the department of
:08:02. > :08:12.justice describe the process in chillingly mundane detail -- John
:08:12. > :08:23.
:08:23. > :08:29.Reza OP -- so the hour. -- John Rizzo, severe. It reduces the
:08:29. > :08:33.perception of drowning. captivity of Abu Zubaydah was
:08:33. > :08:38.required either 92 videotapes. Some showing him undergoing the
:08:38. > :08:43.techniques in graphic detail. Do you regard them as torture? I do
:08:43. > :08:50.not. I think they fit any definition that anyone has of
:08:50. > :08:57.torture. They have physical and emotional pain that was inflicted -
:08:57. > :09:04.- I do believe they were tortured. They are abhorrent and
:09:04. > :09:10.reprehensible. A year after his capture, the CIA finally closed in
:09:10. > :09:18.on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. In 2003, he was captain Pakistani its loan
:09:18. > :09:28.to a secret black sight for interrogation. There ought to be in
:09:28. > :09:31.
:09:31. > :09:39.pollen -- he was captured in Pakistan's and taken to a secret. -
:09:39. > :09:46.- the third to be in Poland. He was deprived of sleep for three weeks
:09:46. > :09:52.and lives in a nappy and was naked. What is the effect of depriving
:09:52. > :09:56.someone of sleep for seven days, naked and wearing only a nappy?
:09:56. > :10:03.think they become vulnerable and they recognise that their condition
:10:03. > :10:13.is one they want to work for Leeds and it is best to co-operate with
:10:13. > :10:15.
:10:15. > :10:22.us -- one they want to avoid. was waterboarded 183 times. Khalid
:10:22. > :10:31.Sheikh Mohammed was not waterboarded 183 times. He had won
:10:31. > :10:40.hard and 83 applications of water. That only lasted ten seconds -- 183
:10:40. > :10:47.applications. It amounted to less than 60 minutes. Isn't that an
:10:47. > :10:53.extreme infliction of suffering? Khalid Sheikh Mohammed would start
:10:53. > :10:58.counting with fingers on his hands to let us know that the ten seconds
:10:58. > :11:03.was about to come up, because he knew that usually that's when it
:11:03. > :11:13.stopped. That does not sound like a man who was concerned about dying.
:11:13. > :11:19.Does it? I did not anticipate that the waterboarding would be used.
:11:19. > :11:24.Especially as often as it was. After several weeks, Khalid Sheikh
:11:24. > :11:29.Mohammed finally reached breaking- point and started to talk.
:11:29. > :11:35.terrorists have huge egos, they cannot wait to tell you how smart
:11:35. > :11:42.they are, how capable they are, how evil they are. At some point, they
:11:42. > :11:48.give it up. In his case, when he gave it up, he would not stop
:11:48. > :11:52.talking. If, as a result of the application of these techniques,
:11:52. > :11:59.lives, perhaps many lives were saved, it doesn't the end justified
:11:59. > :12:02.the means? Torture is universally abhorred, it is banned under
:12:02. > :12:11.international law and it is banned by domestic law within the United
:12:11. > :12:17.knew what was happening to our detainees. When I drove prime every
:12:17. > :12:20.night I wondered whether this was the direction we had to go. Then I
:12:21. > :12:25.saw the fallen faces in the New York Times and the detailed reports
:12:25. > :12:35.that helped us to prevent plots. I thought they would be a child
:12:35. > :12:38.
:12:38. > :12:45.growing up in New York or Los Jose Rodriguez and the CIA insist
:12:45. > :12:51.that the techniques work. It included confirmation of the Korea
:12:51. > :13:01.who eventually led the CRA to Osama Bin Laden's hideout in the heart of
:13:01. > :13:03.
:13:03. > :13:09.Pakistan. We intercepted a message. He was told to not tell them
:13:09. > :13:17.anything about the career. He gave us a lot of information that fall-
:13:17. > :13:21.out us to take down a lot of terrorists. Ms Khalid Sheikh
:13:21. > :13:30.Mohammed also talked about a plot to attack Heathrow Airport and
:13:30. > :13:36.Canary Wharf. It was to be masterminded by his co-accused.
:13:36. > :13:40.was the person who was going to be in charge of this operation. Khalid
:13:40. > :13:50.Sheikh Mohammed confirmed everything that we had been told.
:13:50. > :13:51.
:13:51. > :13:53.The plan was to hijack aeroplanes out of Eastern Europe. They had
:13:54. > :14:02.looked over a certain air force that they considered to have little
:14:02. > :14:08.security. They were going to hijack these in a similar plot to a 9/11
:14:08. > :14:15.and fly them into Heathrow Airport. But the use of the secret
:14:15. > :14:25.techniques subsequently produced an explosive fall-out. 12 of the tapes
:14:25. > :14:29.showed a prisoners being subjected to the techniques. Jose Rodriguez
:14:29. > :14:35.decided to stop any future recordings. They were locked away
:14:35. > :14:43.for three years. When news of the side slit doubt, Rodriguez decided
:14:43. > :14:48.to destroy them. Why did you decide to destroy these tapes? I did it to
:14:48. > :14:58.protect the officers whose faces were shown in interrogations.
:14:58. > :14:59.
:14:59. > :15:09.that the only reason? Yes. Our lawyer has said that it was illegal.
:15:09. > :15:10.
:15:10. > :15:18.I was angry. I was also a bit hurt. I made it clear to them that he did
:15:18. > :15:26.not have the authority. It was not his call to destroy those tapes.
:15:26. > :15:31.he disobeyed orders? Yes. Up until now, what was on the tapes has
:15:31. > :15:36.remained a closely guarded secret. But it is a secret no more. I
:15:37. > :15:45.understand they show that a man vomiting and screaming as he was
:15:45. > :15:55.being water awarded. What do the tapes show about his reaction?
:15:55. > :15:58.
:15:58. > :16:02.not know about the reaction. you see those tapes? I did not.
:16:02. > :16:11.Rodriguez says his interrogators insist there was no vomiting or
:16:11. > :16:18.screaming. John Rizzo sent a s t r a lawyer to watch all 92 tapes. --
:16:18. > :16:26.A CIA it lawyer. He confirmed they were in concordance with the
:16:26. > :16:34.guidelines. But he was disturbed by a reaction. They were
:16:34. > :16:44.extraordinarily hard to watch. did they show? I am not going to
:16:44. > :16:47.
:16:47. > :16:56.get into specifics. He was reacting visibly in a very disturbing way.
:16:56. > :17:04.Was he being sick? He was experiencing some physical
:17:05. > :17:12.difficulties. I will leave it at that. Was he screaming? That I do
:17:12. > :17:22.not know. But not easy to watch. told me they were very hard to
:17:22. > :17:29.
:17:29. > :17:37.watch. I understand that the tape or tapes show him for vomiting and
:17:37. > :17:41.screaming. I do not know where you got that wrong. I did not know that.
:17:41. > :17:47.Two days after the Tate's destruction, there was a secret
:17:47. > :17:54.memorandum. It suggests that projecting their identities of the
:17:54. > :17:58.interrogators was not his only concern. The heat from destroying
:17:58. > :18:02.is nothing compared to what it would be if the tapes ever got into
:18:02. > :18:09.the public domain. He said that out of context they would make us look
:18:09. > :18:15.terrible. You must have been aware of what they showed in order for
:18:15. > :18:22.you to believe that the effect would be devastating. He is not a
:18:23. > :18:28.pretty sight. When you are using these techniques. And the screaming
:18:28. > :18:35.and vomiting? I do not know about swimming and vomiting. But it is
:18:35. > :18:41.not a pretty sight. But you said that if they were viewed in the
:18:41. > :18:46.public it would look terrible. course they said that. If you are
:18:46. > :18:53.waterboarding somebody and they are naked, of course. That was a
:18:53. > :19:01.concern of mine. Defence lawyers will raise these issues at the
:19:01. > :19:07.trial before the military tribunal at Guantanamo. But the defence may
:19:08. > :19:11.not get a very fine forcing disclosure of the evidence.
:19:11. > :19:16.rules of the conditions are set up to commit the Government to hide
:19:16. > :19:24.the evidence of the torture to which the defendants were subjected.
:19:24. > :19:34.The air is a great deal of -- there is a great deal of scepticism from
:19:34. > :19:37.
:19:37. > :19:45.the lawyers about the fairness of these. Why should you care. I think
:19:45. > :19:49.he's care because you want to say that you are different. -- you care.
:19:49. > :19:57.Your country acts under a legal and moral compass. And when you let it
:19:57. > :20:07.go, it goes. The trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, whose plot for
:20:07. > :20:07.
:20:07. > :20:15.down the Twin Towers, may last for years. Do you regret anything you
:20:15. > :20:24.did for authorised? I do not regret anything. I was honoured to surf
:20:24. > :20:28.country. -- so if my country. I am proud of the decisions that I took.
:20:28. > :20:38.Including the destruction of the tapes to protect the people who
:20:38. > :20:39.
:20:39. > :20:42.worked for me. However long the trial lasts, there will be a
:20:42. > :20:50.verdict at the end. It Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his co-accused
:20:50. > :20:54.are found guilty, they will face the death penalty. In the US,
:20:54. > :21:04.someone who has killed 3,000 people would probably have to pay with his
:21:04. > :21:06.
:21:06. > :21:14.wife. In his case, I would want him to rot in jail. To test his
:21:14. > :21:20.religious beliefs by spending about 40 years in a prison in Guantanamo.
:21:20. > :21:29.He wind which are not want to see him executed? I do not want him to
:21:29. > :21:38.be the martyr he wants to be. trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed