0:00:00 > 0:00:04being reopened, as Danny Savage explains.
0:00:04 > 0:00:07This picture triggered a murder trial.
0:00:08 > 0:00:10It shows a man called David Dearlove with his stepson,
0:00:10 > 0:00:13Paul Booth.
0:00:13 > 0:00:16When this image was posted on Facebook, Paul's now adult
0:00:16 > 0:00:18brother went to police, telling them Dearlove had murdered
0:00:18 > 0:00:21the toddler and he had witnessed it.
0:00:21 > 0:00:26The 21-year-old Dearlove in the photo is now 71.
0:00:26 > 0:00:31Almost 50 years later, he was today convicted of murder.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34Back in the late 1960s, he lived with the boys' mother
0:00:34 > 0:00:36in this house in Stockton.
0:00:36 > 0:00:40On the night he killed his stepson in the living room, he claimed
0:00:40 > 0:00:42the boy's injuries were accidental, but his three-year-old brother,
0:00:42 > 0:00:45Peter, saw what really happened.
0:00:45 > 0:00:49He'd crept downstairs for a drink, and through a gap in the living room
0:00:49 > 0:00:51door saw Dearlove swinging Paul violently by the ankles
0:00:51 > 0:00:53and cracking his head against the fireplace,
0:00:53 > 0:00:57causing fatal injuries.
0:00:57 > 0:01:00Nearly half a century later, what Peter Booth saw just
0:01:00 > 0:01:03before his fourth birthday has convicted his stepfather of murder.
0:01:03 > 0:01:11Dearlove said Paul had received the injuries by falling out of bed.
0:01:11 > 0:01:14Had he fallen out of bed and fractured his skull,
0:01:14 > 0:01:18that would have resulted in a straight line fracture.
0:01:18 > 0:01:22In this case we had a fracture that was a Z shape and crossed two
0:01:22 > 0:01:25places in the skull, and that wasn't consistent with him
0:01:25 > 0:01:27having simply fallen and hit his head against an object
0:01:27 > 0:01:30such as a hard floor.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34A lot of the lines of enquiry we are used to in this day and age,
0:01:34 > 0:01:36digital enquiries, phone works, forensics, stuff
0:01:36 > 0:01:37like that didn't exist.
0:01:37 > 0:01:41We didn't have a body in this case, we didn't have a scene,
0:01:41 > 0:01:44a lot of the witnesses were dead, so it was quite challenging.
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Paul Booth's brother and sister had to relive childhood ordeals
0:01:47 > 0:01:51and trauma to get justice for him.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54The judge said Dearlove made the children's lives a misery,
0:01:54 > 0:01:56and jailed him for a minimum of 13 years.
0:01:57 > 0:01:58Danny Savage, BBC News, Teesside.
0:02:01 > 0:02:02Now on BBC News, Our World.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17Is it easier to talk to your mom or at school?
0:02:17 > 0:02:23Or it's the same?
0:02:30 > 0:02:34You see this fear overcome her.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36She's not talking to anybody in school.
0:02:36 > 0:02:38It's affected her whole life.
0:02:42 > 0:02:43It's been very, very difficult.
0:02:54 > 0:02:58The only way to get over selective mutism is to confront it.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01And to confront the situation with me, I was anxious.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04Part of you is telling yourself to go and do it
0:03:04 > 0:03:08but then you say you can't.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17I felt like this week is make or break it.
0:03:17 > 0:03:22We need this right now and we need it to be successful.
0:03:22 > 0:03:25I want their lives to change from it.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28So there is always a part of me that's worried that their lives
0:03:28 > 0:03:35are not going to change enough.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55Welcome to We Speak!
0:03:55 > 0:03:57CHEERING
0:03:57 > 0:04:01All of you guys are here because in one way or another,
0:04:01 > 0:04:06anxiety is impacting your life.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10Selective mutism is an anxiety disorder where kids have difficulty
0:04:10 > 0:04:19talking in certain situations, so they look like normal kids
0:04:20 > 0:04:24at home and when they are in a state of anxiety, then they just kind
0:04:24 > 0:04:25of shut down and freeze.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29And are unable to respond.
0:04:29 > 0:04:36A lot of them can't actually ask to go to the bathroom.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39I've seen, actually, older kids who have had
0:04:39 > 0:04:41accidents in school.
0:04:41 > 0:04:46So, for a shy kid, they are slow to warm up, but this is not
0:04:46 > 0:04:49the case with kids with SM.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51In fact, it's actually the opposite.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54So for kids with SM, the longer that they go
0:04:54 > 0:04:57without talking, then the harder it is to start talking.
0:04:57 > 0:04:59We've got to work for our prizes...
0:04:59 > 0:05:01Annalisa is very funny.
0:05:01 > 0:05:05I wish people could see that, you know?
0:05:10 > 0:05:13She is, at home, a typical teenager.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17But then, when she leaves the house, everything changes.
0:05:17 > 0:05:21Is your name Annalisa, Lexi or Shelley?
0:05:23 > 0:05:27There is a physical transformation that comes about.
0:05:27 > 0:05:33It's so difficult to watch.
0:05:33 > 0:05:38Because you see this fear overcome her, but they want to be invisible.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41Is it easier to talk to your mom or at school?
0:05:44 > 0:05:47She has had selective mutism basically her whole life.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49Diagnosed at the age of five.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51I went home and googled it.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54And then cried.
0:05:54 > 0:05:55Because...
0:05:55 > 0:06:01Sorry.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04Because I realised she was different and it wasn't just shyness.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06And it's affected her whole life.
0:06:06 > 0:06:12It's very, very difficult.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15I'm hoping that she'll be able to lead a normal life.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18Get married, have children, have a job, go to college.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21But a lot of that hangs in the balance over will
0:06:21 > 0:06:22she be able to talk?
0:06:22 > 0:06:28Do we conquer anxiety by doing the thing that makes us anxious?
0:06:28 > 0:06:30The cause of selective mutism is kind of a combination
0:06:30 > 0:06:34of environment and genetics.
0:06:34 > 0:06:43There's often one or both parents who also have a history of anxiety.
0:06:43 > 0:06:49And parents, they'll kind of jump in and either answer
0:06:49 > 0:06:55for the child or they might say, "It's OK, honey,
0:06:55 > 0:06:56you don't need to answer."
0:06:56 > 0:06:59So through that process, the child is actually learning
0:06:59 > 0:07:01to avoid the situations that make them anxious.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03Until it really becomes an ingrained pattern.
0:07:03 > 0:07:10What is your name?
0:07:10 > 0:07:18OK, can we try saying it a little bit louder?
0:07:18 > 0:07:19Rhianna. Rhianna?
0:07:19 > 0:07:25OK.
0:07:25 > 0:07:26And where do you live? Vancouver.
0:07:26 > 0:07:27In Vancouver?
0:07:27 > 0:07:30We have each of the kids make a video in advance
0:07:30 > 0:07:31and send it to us.
0:07:31 > 0:07:34For many of them, you wouldn't even know that they have selective
0:07:34 > 0:07:35mutism from the video.
0:07:36 > 0:07:37Hi, I'm Bran.
0:07:37 > 0:07:43I live on a farm.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45Who do you find it easiest to talk to?
0:07:45 > 0:07:46Your parents?
0:07:46 > 0:07:48At home, with us, she is quite outgoing.
0:07:48 > 0:07:53And very chatty.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56I guess from the age of three, it was a pivotal moment.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59We just thought it was a typical case of her being shy.
0:07:59 > 0:08:04Do you like homework? Well, it depends.
0:08:04 > 0:08:12Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16She actually stepped off into this pond.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19And most kids would have splashed, kicked, gone crazy.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22She sank.
0:08:22 > 0:08:26It was only two feet deep.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29It was only knee-deep but she just froze and lay there at the bottom.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34So we started to think, OK, she can't keep yourself safe.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37What do you want to be when you grow up?
0:08:37 > 0:08:38Be a vet, a veterinarian?
0:08:38 > 0:08:43Yeah?
0:08:43 > 0:08:46Each day you are going to play Jenga for just 15
0:08:46 > 0:08:47minutes in the beginning.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50In another small step.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53So, on video games, you can tell your parents, excuse me,
0:08:53 > 0:09:07I'm just trying to learn problem-solving skills here.
0:09:08 > 0:09:13James talks to me and his dad and his brother and my parents.
0:09:13 > 0:09:20That's really it.
0:09:20 > 0:09:21Nobody at school.
0:09:21 > 0:09:28Let's jump out!
0:09:28 > 0:09:29It's very hard.
0:09:29 > 0:09:32At points you feel angry because you don't know how
0:09:32 > 0:09:36to help him and when there is no help out there and no one knows
0:09:36 > 0:09:40what to do and the teachers think he is just defiant and just doesn't
0:09:40 > 0:09:42want to speak and you know it's not true.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45I feel like this week is make or break it.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49I don't want to say our last chance because I would hate to say that.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52But I really do think we need this right now and we need
0:09:52 > 0:09:55it to be successful.
0:09:55 > 0:10:02Chelsea is going to ask you the question as yes or no.
0:10:02 > 0:10:03Make sense to you?
0:10:03 > 0:10:03Hand down.
0:10:03 > 0:10:08Yes, beautiful.
0:10:08 > 0:10:12Every kid's presentation is completely different.
0:10:12 > 0:10:15We also have kids in there who are very comfortable talking
0:10:15 > 0:10:22to adults and then with peers, you see a different child.
0:10:22 > 0:10:2530 seconds, go, go, go!
0:10:25 > 0:10:27Not yet, no toppings yet, just flavours!
0:10:27 > 0:10:30Is it harder to talk to family or at school?
0:10:30 > 0:10:32At school. At school.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35Is it harder to talk to the kids at school or teachers?
0:10:35 > 0:10:40The kids. The kids.
0:10:40 > 0:10:42Emily's talking at school and doing what she needs
0:10:42 > 0:10:45to do to get through the day.
0:10:45 > 0:10:51But she's not herself at school.
0:10:51 > 0:10:55There's a lot of personality that isn't really shining through.
0:10:55 > 0:11:00It's raining! It's pouring!
0:11:00 > 0:11:06She's only doing the bare minimum so she answers
0:11:06 > 0:11:08questions if people ask her,
0:11:08 > 0:11:12she doesn't initiate conversations.
0:11:12 > 0:11:17It's like a lump in your throat and part of you is telling yourself
0:11:17 > 0:11:22to go and do it but part of you is saying you can't.
0:11:22 > 0:11:25It's hard to.
0:11:25 > 0:11:27Sometimes I actually can't do it.
0:11:27 > 0:11:34I think my biggest fear in all of these is that they're not
0:11:35 > 0:11:40going to get out of it what I am hoping for them.
0:11:40 > 0:11:42It's a lot that parents are investing in.
0:11:42 > 0:11:55I want their lives to change.
0:12:02 > 0:12:09What is it?
0:12:09 > 0:12:12Red Hot Chilli Peppers!
0:12:12 > 0:12:13Pretty good team name!
0:12:13 > 0:12:17We are about to go do a scavenger hunt at a local market and the kids
0:12:17 > 0:12:20are going to be asking employees where different ingredients are.
0:12:20 > 0:12:22I remember when I used to go grocery shopping...
0:12:22 > 0:12:26Yes, do you like to go grocery shopping?
0:12:26 > 0:12:29You say, "Yes, I like to go grocery shopping."
0:12:32 > 0:12:36It can be really hard for these kids to do a normal thing
0:12:36 > 0:12:39like going into a grocery store because it's an unexpected place.
0:12:39 > 0:12:47A normal compliment could be really anxiety inducing
0:12:47 > 0:12:51because they're like, "OK, now I'm expected to respond."
0:12:51 > 0:12:54Here, I am an employee that works here, I'm just loading some
0:12:54 > 0:12:56cookies onto a shelf.
0:12:56 > 0:12:58And then you ask...
0:12:58 > 0:12:59Where are the jalapenos?
0:12:59 > 0:13:04Awesome job!
0:13:04 > 0:13:10So, for Annalisa, currently at one word responses,
0:13:10 > 0:13:14I can feed her a line of, like, you could ask me this,
0:13:14 > 0:13:16and then she will ask me that back.
0:13:16 > 0:13:18But no spontaneous utterances thus far.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22I had SM when I was a kid.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25I really relate to these kids on so many levels so it's hard
0:13:25 > 0:13:28for me sometimes to push them too far because I know exactly
0:13:28 > 0:13:33how they're feeling.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36You can ask the question here.
0:13:36 > 0:13:37In the produce aisle, awesome.
0:13:37 > 0:13:40Great job asking, that was so awesome and clear.
0:13:40 > 0:13:41Thank you very much.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44Was it harder or easier to ask the question to the clerk
0:13:44 > 0:13:48or to practice with me?
0:13:52 > 0:13:57Did it feel a little scary or really scary?
0:14:00 > 0:14:03You don't know.
0:14:03 > 0:14:10Was it... Answer if it was easy or hard.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33It is a challenge to accept Madison because she thinks somebody isn't
0:14:33 > 0:14:35doing what they should be doing.
0:14:35 > 0:14:37Meeting parents that are also dealing with selective
0:14:37 > 0:14:39mutism has been almost like life-changing for me.
0:14:39 > 0:14:42It's just great to hear other people say that these
0:14:42 > 0:14:43are the same struggles.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46Their child can't get up to go to the bathroom,
0:14:46 > 0:14:48their child does this or that, that changed us.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51It just makes you feel better to hear that you're not crazy.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54You may not know how to ask about the facts and side-effects.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57Well, that's really what treatment is about, it's about practising
0:14:57 > 0:14:59things that make us anxious.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02Really, the kids at this stage, they don't really know why they're
0:15:02 > 0:15:03scared of talking to other people.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07I couldn't tell you what I was afraid of when I was five
0:15:07 > 0:15:10and I think most of these kids don't really know
0:15:10 > 0:15:13that the only way to get over selective mutism is to confront
0:15:13 > 0:15:15it and confront the situations that make us anxious.
0:15:15 > 0:15:17What I said was either sit down...
0:15:17 > 0:15:26Sometimes I ask parents to read letters to the kids.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29Because they don't have to deal with the interpersonal stuff,
0:15:29 > 0:15:31they can read it and reread it...
0:15:31 > 0:15:33People say, what's the research evidence for this?
0:15:33 > 0:15:37We're not quite there to be able to say, you can take to the bank,
0:15:37 > 0:15:38this is going to work.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41But we are confident about tweaking the programme to make it work.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44For us, it's getting the parents to do what we do.
0:15:44 > 0:15:45That's our challenge.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49So I don't think of this week as a therapy, I think of it
0:15:49 > 0:15:52as teaching the therapist how to do the therapy.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54And it's very daunting because there is this turning
0:15:54 > 0:15:57point when they realise, oh, so I'm literally going to have
0:15:57 > 0:15:59to do this every day or every week?
0:15:59 > 0:16:04And the answer is, yes, relentlessly.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17This afternoon, our group is going to Battery Park,
0:16:17 > 0:16:20so all of the kids will be communicating with each other
0:16:20 > 0:16:22and with someone else out in the community.
0:16:22 > 0:16:26So this should be exciting!
0:16:28 > 0:16:31If you eventually ask, then he will probably say no.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34So just say, let's ask.
0:16:34 > 0:16:38As a mum, to see James struggling, it's hard.
0:16:38 > 0:16:42It's very stressful and produces great anxiety in me because we're
0:16:42 > 0:16:46watching this child who I know can talk and I know he wants to talk
0:16:46 > 0:16:54and he just can't get it out.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57I've asked before, "where are your words?
0:16:57 > 0:17:01Why can't you get your words out?"
0:17:01 > 0:17:04And he will say "they're stuck in my head.
0:17:04 > 0:17:05I can't get it out."
0:17:05 > 0:17:08When his words get stuck in his head, my anxiety level really
0:17:08 > 0:17:12does increase and I feel like I want to grab him and hug him
0:17:12 > 0:17:13and make it all better.
0:17:13 > 0:17:20One, two, three. Great job!
0:17:20 > 0:17:22Do you ever worry that it's too much?
0:17:22 > 0:17:25The treatment for anxious kids is putting them in situations that
0:17:25 > 0:17:27make them anxious and actually facing their fears.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30We need them to actually experience the anxiety in these situations
0:17:30 > 0:17:34and get through it for them to see that they can.
0:17:34 > 0:17:35What is that?
0:17:35 > 0:17:38Statue of Liberty, yeah!
0:17:38 > 0:17:45We've got a question, we are looking for South Street Seaport.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49You see a kid like Breanna, who wants to be around other kids
0:17:49 > 0:17:52and you can just see them wanting to talk and wanting
0:17:52 > 0:17:57to build that relationship.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01Great, one more time?
0:18:01 > 0:18:02Have you been here before?
0:18:02 > 0:18:03No.
0:18:03 > 0:18:06Go ahead and ask.
0:18:06 > 0:18:08Ask a little bit louder.
0:18:08 > 0:18:16What's your favourite colour?
0:18:16 > 0:18:19Obviously, we would love to get her out of her whisper
0:18:19 > 0:18:20but the whisper is really secondary.
0:18:20 > 0:18:22The first step is just getting them talking
0:18:22 > 0:18:28and expanding their talking to other situations and other people.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31We would love for James to have just a friend to talk to.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33He can't go through life alone.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36So hopefully he can find one person to play with and one
0:18:37 > 0:18:39person to speak to.
0:18:39 > 0:18:45I can't imagine going through life and not having a friend.
0:18:50 > 0:18:52You want to try to do...
0:18:52 > 0:18:56I make a statement and you guys ask something back to me
0:18:56 > 0:19:00and then back to you...
0:19:00 > 0:19:03A lot of these kids just really can't have a simple
0:19:03 > 0:19:04conversation with another peer.
0:19:04 > 0:19:08And so the last couple of days is going to be a lot
0:19:08 > 0:19:10of work around that.
0:19:10 > 0:19:14If we're hanging out
0:19:14 > 0:19:19and I say...
0:19:19 > 0:19:22"I can't wait for my vacation in a couple of weeks."
0:19:22 > 0:19:25Talk about what you guys would say or ask back to me.
0:19:25 > 0:19:29I want to learn how to go up to people because sometimes I want
0:19:29 > 0:19:30more friends than I have.
0:19:44 > 0:19:54I prefer to be inside because it's more peaceful.
0:19:57 > 0:20:04I like to watch TV and stay inside.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08When was the last time you had a conversation like that,
0:20:08 > 0:20:11with two people that you don't really know?
0:20:11 > 0:20:13It's been a while!
0:20:13 > 0:20:15How long is a while?
0:20:15 > 0:20:20A couple of years.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24Do you want to stay in touch with Emily after We Speak?
0:20:24 > 0:20:25Yeah.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28What did you do that was really cool?
0:20:28 > 0:20:33I hung out with other kids.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35You hung out with other kids outside of We Speak.
0:20:35 > 0:20:39And this was for the partner project.
0:20:42 > 0:20:43Annalisa blows me away.
0:20:43 > 0:20:47You know how anxious she is, you know what it's like for her
0:20:47 > 0:20:53and she was just up there in front of an entire class.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56Did you guys go to the museum with your parents or
0:20:56 > 0:20:58without your parents?
0:20:58 > 0:20:59Without.
0:20:59 > 0:21:01Without your parents.
0:21:01 > 0:21:07Did you guys talk in the museum or were you silent?
0:21:07 > 0:21:11We talked about the flavours on the High Line.
0:21:11 > 0:21:16We then talked about the flavours we love.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20Everyone could hear her and she answered everyone's questions.
0:21:20 > 0:21:25APPLAUSE.
0:21:36 > 0:21:37You become very attached to them.
0:21:37 > 0:21:41You become very invested in them.
0:21:41 > 0:21:43And once you start to see them make progress,
0:21:43 > 0:21:46you want to keep going with them.
0:21:46 > 0:21:54Every one of them, just work and try new things and face their fears.
0:21:54 > 0:21:56Annalisa.
0:21:56 > 0:21:58APPLAUSE.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00I'm so lucky to get to hang out with her.
0:22:01 > 0:22:02We made a million bracelets together!
0:22:02 > 0:22:05Annalisa, I don't believe talks to anybody in school.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08So if she is able to start the new school year able
0:22:08 > 0:22:12to raise her hand and say here, then the kids in the class
0:22:12 > 0:22:13know that she can talk.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16That would be the first time the kids in the class
0:22:16 > 0:22:17ever hear her voice.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20That is massive progress.
0:22:20 > 0:22:24I have to say, when I saw her little presentation, it almost
0:22:24 > 0:22:25brought tears to my eyes.
0:22:25 > 0:22:27I was very happy.
0:22:27 > 0:22:31I know that she's going to work really hard and I'm very
0:22:31 > 0:22:36confident that going forward, this is a new chapter in her life.
0:22:36 > 0:22:38Emily.
0:22:38 > 0:22:43APPLAUSE.
0:22:43 > 0:22:47I am proudest of her today for helping to facilitate conversation.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51How would you feel if I told you that Emily today kind of lead
0:22:51 > 0:22:54a conversation in front of the other girls?
0:22:54 > 0:22:55I am surprised and thrilled.
0:22:55 > 0:22:59Hopefully it means she realises that she can do it and that she can
0:22:59 > 0:23:01go back to school and have conversations.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05Don't act like you didn't do it, take credit for it!
0:23:05 > 0:23:07How does that feel, having done that today?
0:23:07 > 0:23:08It feels good.
0:23:08 > 0:23:13And exciting.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18This is not a cure for these kids.
0:23:19 > 0:23:28This is the start of their journey to overcome and challenge their SM.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32What would it be like if everyone could hear you talking out loud?
0:23:32 > 0:23:38I don't know.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43I think she'll probably start by texting, which is great.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45She's never done that, either.
0:23:45 > 0:23:48It seems minor but it's a big deal!
0:23:48 > 0:23:48Shake hands!
0:23:48 > 0:23:53Amazing!
0:23:53 > 0:24:01We were being fully engaged and playing Monopoly.
0:24:02 > 0:24:05James' mom actually emailed me last night and she said that James
0:24:05 > 0:24:08and Breanna were emailing each other back and forth last night.
0:24:08 > 0:24:09Several exchanges about their shared interests.
0:24:09 > 0:24:15So this is it, this is what it's all about.
0:24:15 > 0:24:19I never thought that James would be able to stand up at the end.
0:24:19 > 0:24:21Just even standing in front of 20 parents and getting
0:24:21 > 0:24:25a certificate, not speaking.
0:24:25 > 0:24:26I mean, that was impressive.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28I was concerned that he might not speak.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31It does look like they are tiny steps, but in reality
0:24:31 > 0:24:37for James, they are huge, enormous, great leaps.