:00:12. > :00:17.I want to know that there are hearts in the bank, so there's one
:00:17. > :00:21.for me. This teenager needs a new heart. Without it, he will die. The
:00:21. > :00:26.Welsh Government says it has a plan to help, but will it work?
:00:26. > :00:31.something's working, and it is in Wales, why break it? I don't think
:00:31. > :00:34.it's unrealist toik expect we will get more organs available with this
:00:35. > :00:38.system. Tonight we hear the despair of those who have no option but to
:00:38. > :00:41.wait. The worst thing is what you're praying for is someone to
:00:41. > :00:45.have an accident, which is probably a bad thing to do as well. You're
:00:45. > :00:50.paying for someone's misery. those who've given. They said that
:00:50. > :00:54.he hadn't really got a chance. So the consultant then said "Will you
:00:54. > :00:58.donate? Would you like to donate his organs?" And those would doubt
:00:58. > :01:01.a new law will save more lives. It's ill considered and it's not
:01:01. > :01:11.going to consider the additional organs which the patients are
:01:11. > :01:32.
:01:32. > :01:37.48-year-old Mark Schofield from Porthcawl has had two kidney
:01:37. > :01:41.transplants. Week In Week Out first met the former surf champion five
:01:41. > :01:48.years ago. His first transplant had failed and he was waiting for
:01:48. > :01:55.another. I'm not prepared to sit down, lie down and play dead. I've
:01:55. > :02:02.got to take the gamble. At the time, Mark was having to undergo hours of
:02:02. > :02:09.dialysis every day. It was a routine that dominated his life.
:02:09. > :02:13.Time, he thought, was running out. I've not finished my life. I want
:02:13. > :02:23.to do more. Now I've got to look to the best place I can get the
:02:23. > :02:24.
:02:24. > :02:29.kidneys from. Mark decided to make a stkrastic decision. He travelled
:02:29. > :02:34.to the Philippines to buy a kidney instead. Don't worry now. We'll be
:02:34. > :02:42.fine. Today he finds the programme and those memories hard to watch.
:02:42. > :02:48.It makes me think how desperate I must have been, for sure. That was
:02:48. > :02:53.pretty scary being on that machine over there. Funny enough, now I
:02:53. > :02:56.look at it and I'm quite scared for him. I'm quite, you know I'd be
:02:56. > :03:00.worried now about that because of where it is and stuff. Yet at the
:03:00. > :03:09.time it didn't worry me at all. Because I didn't think I could have
:03:09. > :03:13.it here, so there was the best thing. In his case, there simply
:03:13. > :03:17.weren't enough kidneys available through voluntary donations. He
:03:17. > :03:21.believes the current system is loaded against content. If you have
:03:21. > :03:28.a question you're not sure about, just say no, it will be fine.
:03:28. > :03:32.That's what we do. That's our nature. If in doubt, don't do it.
:03:32. > :03:37.The current system of opting in means that those who want to donate
:03:37. > :03:41.their organs after death make an individual decision to sign up for
:03:41. > :03:45.the Organ Donor Register. More than 30% of people in Wales are on that
:03:45. > :03:49.list. But those who aren't registered can still have their
:03:49. > :03:53.organs donate today their families agree. Seeking approval for that
:03:53. > :03:56.consent is the job of the organ donor team. The first part is
:03:56. > :04:01.actually explained to them that your loved one has died or there's
:04:01. > :04:05.no hope of recovery. They need to accept that there is no hope of
:04:05. > :04:08.recovery before broching that subject. Perhaps that's where some
:04:08. > :04:11.clinicians go wrong because they haven't accepted death. Once the
:04:11. > :04:17.family have accepted their loved one isn't going to get better or
:04:17. > :04:22.they have died, it's only then we broach those issues. You would
:04:22. > :04:26.frame it in terms of - did they ever express a wish regarding organ
:04:26. > :04:31.donation? We can check the Organ Donor Register which may help to
:04:32. > :04:35.inform that decision. Being on the register is valid, legal consent.
:04:35. > :04:38.Butt family are a very important safe guard in all of this.
:04:39. > :04:47.present, the family of the potential donor has the right of
:04:48. > :04:52.veto, which means that organs can't be taken without their consent. 35-
:04:52. > :04:56.year-old Becky Kelly from Prestatyn has been faced with just such a
:04:56. > :05:00.decision. Her 18-year-old son Antony died in March this year.
:05:00. > :05:03.had gone to a nightclub with his friends. He was coming back in a
:05:03. > :05:08.taxi. He had an argument with his friend in the taxi. He thought,
:05:08. > :05:17.right, I'm going, you know, the taxi was going 30mph and he decided
:05:17. > :05:22.to jump up, open the door and jump out of the taxi. I sat in A&E and a
:05:22. > :05:25.consultant told me that he had a serious head injury. They'd
:05:25. > :05:31.contacted Walton, which is a specialist hospital, and they had
:05:32. > :05:36.said he hasn't really got a chance. So the consultant then said - will
:05:36. > :05:41.you donate? Would you like to donate his organs? Well, it was
:05:41. > :05:44.shock. I was so shocked when they told me about this accident and you
:05:44. > :05:51.know, I couldn't even think straight. Except the fact that my
:05:51. > :05:56.son had said he wanted to donate his organs. The memory of that
:05:56. > :05:59.conversation with Antony made Becki's decision easier. He joined
:06:00. > :06:05.the Army when he was 17. He always wanted to be a hero. He loved the
:06:05. > :06:14.Army. Four weeks before he passed out, he decided to leave and come
:06:14. > :06:18.home. There was a job lined up for him. It was the Army that actually
:06:18. > :06:24.pushed him to want to donate, but then, yeah after he had come out of
:06:24. > :06:30.the Army, he still wanted to donate. For Becki, the current system
:06:30. > :06:36.worked. But latest figures show that 45% of families in the UK, who
:06:36. > :06:43.are asked to donate their relative's organs, declined.
:06:43. > :06:48.There's a degree of questioning around can I ask why you've said
:06:48. > :06:51.no? It might be because it's built on myth - I don't want my son cut
:06:51. > :06:54.into pieces, I don't want there to be a delay in funeral arrangements.
:06:54. > :06:58.That's why I'm there, to provide the correct answers to any
:06:58. > :07:05.questions that may come up. If the answer is still no, then that
:07:05. > :07:11.family have to live with that decision. If somebody is carrying a
:07:11. > :07:16.donor card an the family say no, what's the dilemma that leaves wu?
:07:16. > :07:20.Yeah, that's a difficult conversation because obviously that
:07:20. > :07:24.patient has expressed their wish. They may have put themselves on the
:07:25. > :07:27.register or carry a card. That presents us with a tough
:07:27. > :07:33.conversation, but ultimately, that family have to live with their
:07:33. > :07:36.decision. If they would find it easier to not go ahead with organ
:07:36. > :07:39.donation and live with that rather than feel like they've gone ahead
:07:39. > :07:44.with something that they're not comfortable with, it's a real shame,
:07:44. > :07:48.but it's something that we'd have to live with. 41 people died in
:07:48. > :07:52.Wales waiting for a transplant in the past year. The Welsh Government
:07:52. > :07:56.wants to increase the number of donors by changing the system to a
:07:56. > :08:01.soft opt-out. Under the new law from 2015, everyone in Wales will
:08:01. > :08:05.be treated as a potential donor unless they opt out. If you're over
:08:05. > :08:09.18, have lived in Wales for more than six months, your organs will
:08:09. > :08:13.be automatically available for transplant after you die. Under the
:08:13. > :08:18.new proposed system you can opt in and very similar to the sip waigs
:08:18. > :08:23.that we're in now. Additionally you can opt out. Both those are what we
:08:23. > :08:26.would term "expressed consent". There will be a group in the middle
:08:26. > :08:30.who haven't expressed their view or choice either way. In that group of
:08:30. > :08:35.patients they will have deemed to have consented and be willing to
:08:35. > :08:39.donate their organs. It's claimed that 15 new donors would become
:08:39. > :08:44.available under the new system, saving more lives through multiple
:08:44. > :08:48.transplants. Wales will be the first country in the UK to
:08:48. > :08:55.introduce this new approach. Around 300 people in Wales are on the
:08:55. > :08:59.waiting list for a transplant at any one time. Mark was waiting for
:09:00. > :09:07.four-and-a-half years. In the end, he felt he had no option but to try
:09:07. > :09:13.and buy an organ. I didn't think it was going to happen. It was, sort
:09:13. > :09:15.of, this is my last roll of the dice really. But the transplant he
:09:15. > :09:21.wanted in the Philippines was called off at the last minute
:09:21. > :09:24.because the organ wasn't a suitable match. Mark and his wife had to
:09:24. > :09:33.give up and return to Wales, back to a life on the transplant waiting
:09:33. > :09:40.list. I am going to get it. I will get it, even if I'm 75 years old
:09:40. > :09:45.and I'm over here, I will have a transplant, I'm telling you. Seven
:09:45. > :09:49.months later Mark did get the call he'd been waiting for, a kidney and
:09:49. > :09:53.fresh hope had been found. The transplant was successful, despite
:09:53. > :09:58.that Mark has been warn today will fail in future and he may have to
:09:58. > :10:01.go back on the waiting list. always live, even when you've got
:10:02. > :10:05.one, you always live with the fact that it's not going to last forever.
:10:05. > :10:10.You can sometimes get so close to your situation that you think
:10:10. > :10:17.everybody else's is not as hard or as tough as yours. There's people
:10:17. > :10:27.in, I know there's people in worse positions. I'm not sitting there,
:10:27. > :10:30.
:10:30. > :10:34.but... Sometimes you've got to feel sorry for yourself, sometimes.
:10:34. > :10:38.believes the proposed opt-out system will give him a better
:10:38. > :10:43.chance of an organ in future. If the law is changed, it could be
:10:43. > :10:47.introduced in three years. Opt-out isn't a new idea, but why change
:10:47. > :10:52.now? There is a chronic shortage of organs available for
:10:52. > :10:56.transplantation, so we believe to introduce a soft opt-out system now
:10:56. > :11:00.is the right way forward. What are the benefits of this approach?
:11:00. > :11:04.benefits are that we hope that it will increase the amount of organs
:11:04. > :11:07.available for transplant. In other countries that have introduced this
:11:07. > :11:11.legislation there's been an increase in the amount of donors
:11:11. > :11:18.receiving organs. This is the way that we think we should now go in
:11:18. > :11:20.Wales. In 2008, a Welsh Assembly inquiry into organ donation came to
:11:20. > :11:26.the conclusion that the system the Government now wants to introduce
:11:26. > :11:30.wouldn't work. An all-party committee was chaired by former AM,
:11:30. > :11:35.Jonathan Morgan. When we started the inquiry I was quite open to the
:11:35. > :11:38.idea that a change in the law could make a significant difference, that
:11:38. > :11:42.perhaps there were problems in the legislation that we could deal with
:11:42. > :11:45.that would actually allow Wales to go its own way and do something
:11:45. > :11:49.better and show the rest of the UK that something different could be
:11:49. > :11:52.done. But my view changed quite slowly but surely offer the period
:11:52. > :11:57.of the inquiry and in particular when we went to Spain and examined
:11:57. > :12:02.the system there. What we found when we visited Madrid, although
:12:02. > :12:06.the law changed in 1979, nothing really altered in the rate of organ
:12:06. > :12:10.donation until 1989. This change came about not because the law was
:12:10. > :12:14.changed but because ten years later, after seeing no improvement, the
:12:14. > :12:19.Spanish government decided to invest in transplantation and
:12:19. > :12:22.coordination in training and recruitment. That made the biggest
:12:22. > :12:26.dirpbs. A UK Government taskforce said that the question of opt-out
:12:26. > :12:32.should only be revisited if the number of deceased donation has not
:12:32. > :12:37.increased to 50% by 2013. In Wales the current figure is 49%, almost
:12:37. > :12:43.meeting the target. If donor rates are already increasing, is a change
:12:43. > :12:49.in the system necessary? Anecdotally I would have said that
:12:49. > :12:56.the overall view is that it won't make a huge difference. Consultant
:12:56. > :13:00.John Saunders is the chair of organ donation in Abergavenny. There are
:13:00. > :13:05.naysayers who think it will make it worse. There are enthusiasts that
:13:05. > :13:09.believe it could deliver. Because we will have an opt-in register
:13:09. > :13:14.continuing, this creates confusion in the public mind. Despite the
:13:14. > :13:20.efforts to inform, it will invite confusion. This will lead to lower
:13:20. > :13:24.donation rates. If there is a single example of somebody from
:13:24. > :13:29.whom organs are taken, despite having opted out, a single case
:13:29. > :13:33.like that could cause enormous damage to the whole programme.
:13:33. > :13:39.Under the new law, doctors will have the legal right to take an
:13:39. > :13:44.organ, but what if the families of donors disagree? Families, do they
:13:44. > :13:48.have the right to say that no, you can't have any relative's organs?
:13:48. > :13:52.Families don't have a legal veto. However, if... They don't have the
:13:52. > :13:55.right to say no? They don't have a legal veto. As I've said,
:13:55. > :14:02.clinicians have a duty of care. They don't have the right to say
:14:02. > :14:06.no? They don't have a legal veto. Which is - they don't have the
:14:06. > :14:10.absolute right to say no? They don't have a legal veto. Right.
:14:10. > :14:14.That may mean you could leave yourself open to legal action in
:14:14. > :14:18.future. Obviously there are lots of legal issues. Lots of lawyers are
:14:18. > :14:21.working on this. We have the confidence to bring the bill
:14:21. > :14:25.forward. What this means is that doctors will have the legal right
:14:25. > :14:30.to take organs, but in reality, clinicians say they will abide by
:14:30. > :14:38.the family's wishes. What is clear is that the proposals raise many
:14:38. > :14:43.ethical and legal dilemmas. # Happy birthday to you #
:14:43. > :14:47.The anticipation of life to come is always a big part of turning 18.
:14:47. > :14:50.But for Mitchell Powell, from Swansea, this is a particularly
:14:50. > :14:55.poignant celebration. Born with a life-threatening heart condition,
:14:55. > :15:00.he had open-heart surgery three times bit time he was 15. There
:15:00. > :15:04.have been days when he didn't think he would live to see this one.
:15:04. > :15:07.first two open-heart surgeries I was too young to think of the
:15:07. > :15:14.conconstituencies or risks of the surgery. After my last surgery,
:15:14. > :15:18.when I was told I needed one, I was 14. I remember planning my own
:15:18. > :15:22.funeral, what song was going to be there. I'm going to be, if I was
:15:22. > :15:27.going to be buried in a Swansea City kit. I honestly thought it was
:15:27. > :15:31.going to be the end of it. Because of my heart condition, I've always
:15:31. > :15:36.had something in my mind saying that I'm not going to make it to
:15:36. > :15:41.this age. He's 14 and he shouldn't be talking about funerals. He
:15:41. > :15:45.should be talking about football. Mitchell's mum has had to watch him
:15:45. > :15:48.endure a lifetime of hospital appointments and operations. It's
:15:48. > :15:53.been horrendous watching him go through all the pain and suffering
:15:53. > :15:56.he has gone through. She and his family know he will need a heart
:15:56. > :16:00.transplant, they just don't know when. They have to wait for his
:16:00. > :16:04.condition to deteriorate. He's got to have less than a year to live
:16:04. > :16:08.before he's offered an heart transplant. Then come as long that
:16:08. > :16:13.a fitness test to make sure he's fit enough to have a transplant.
:16:13. > :16:19.Plus because he's got a lot of complications he'd be screened as
:16:19. > :16:24.high risk. I'm sure if the organs was available they wouldn't wait
:16:24. > :16:28.for Mitchell to have less than a year to live. Why risk him being
:16:28. > :16:31.too ill? He's been ill most of his life. Let's give him a chance and
:16:31. > :16:35.give him a heart now. Unfortunately it doesn't come to that because
:16:35. > :16:39.there aren't enough organs. Even before the Welsh Government's organ
:16:39. > :16:43.donation inquiry in 2008, a Department of Health taskforce
:16:43. > :16:47.concluded an opt-out system should not be introduced in the UK. A
:16:47. > :16:50.former chair of the British transplant society, Professor John
:16:50. > :16:56.Fabre gave evidence to the taskforce. He has concerns about
:16:56. > :17:01.the plans for Wales. I see this as a piece of legislation that is ill
:17:01. > :17:06.considered, has been pushed through in the face of strong evidence that
:17:07. > :17:11.it's not going to do what it wants to achieve and that it's not going
:17:11. > :17:16.to deliver the additional organs, which the patients are waiting for.
:17:16. > :17:20.I think what it can create is a tension in the organ donation
:17:20. > :17:27.process. Families will feel that the state has rights over their
:17:27. > :17:31.loved one's body. Fundamentally, what the system desperately needs
:17:31. > :17:36.is trust. It desperately needs trust. Anything that eroads that
:17:36. > :17:39.trust is potentially harmful. March a BBC poll showed that 63%
:17:39. > :17:43.backed the proposed system. But according it a Welsh Government
:17:43. > :17:48.survey, published last month, support has dropped to 49%. One of
:17:48. > :17:52.the main concerns was a lack of information about the changes.
:17:52. > :17:59.Whichever system is used in future, public confidence will be crucial.
:17:59. > :18:04.Wales has been very successful in increasing its organ donation rates.
:18:04. > :18:11.It's also been very successful with its organ donation register. So
:18:11. > :18:15.that we now have well over 30%, I think 35% of people in Wales on the
:18:15. > :18:20.organ donation register. We had a marked increase in the number of
:18:20. > :18:24.organs given in the last ten years. And Wales has consistently out
:18:24. > :18:29.performed England. Is that a better way to proceed through voluntary
:18:29. > :18:33.donation? It's the ideal and least controversial way to proceed. One
:18:33. > :18:37.would like to have truly compelling evidence that there's going to be a
:18:38. > :18:40.benefit in changing things. That evidence is not compelling. But the
:18:40. > :18:47.Welsh Government has been convinced and it's determined to change the
:18:48. > :18:51.system. Those Those people who are worried about what you're trying to
:18:51. > :18:55.introduce are saying, it's unrealist to suppose you're going
:18:56. > :18:59.to get many more donors. If something's working, and it is in
:19:00. > :19:04.Wales, why break it? I don't think it's unrealistic to expect that we
:19:04. > :19:08.will get more organs available for transplantation with this system.
:19:08. > :19:13.We've consulted widely. The majority of people are in favour of
:19:13. > :19:16.this system. This bill obliges Welsh ministers to have a very
:19:16. > :19:20.wide-ranging and extensive communication and education
:19:20. > :19:25.programme. I believe the time is absolutely right now to bring this
:19:25. > :19:29.piece of legislation forward. average lifespan of a donated organ
:19:29. > :19:36.is about ten years. What that means for Mark is that the clock is
:19:36. > :19:40.tucking faster every day. -- ticking faster every day.
:19:40. > :19:44.dialysis you are in limbo, hoping and praying for a phone call. The
:19:44. > :19:47.worst thing is what you're praying for is for someone to have an
:19:47. > :19:50.accident, which is probably a bad thing to do. You're praying for
:19:50. > :19:54.someone's misery. While he tries to live life to the full, he's been
:19:54. > :19:58.having health problems and has had to have tests on his transplanted
:19:58. > :20:02.kidney. The waiting, all the time, is probably the hardest bit really.
:20:02. > :20:09.I just try and think positive. It doesn't always work, sometimes when
:20:09. > :20:13.you're on your own and lying awake at 4am, it gets to you. The Welsh
:20:13. > :20:20.Government says it's spending �5 million setting up and promoting
:20:20. > :20:24.the new system. Who will pick up the bill afterwards? There is no
:20:24. > :20:30.indication that the Welsh Government is going to necessarily
:20:30. > :20:34.offer an additional pot of money to fund these transplants. Professor
:20:34. > :20:38.Ceri Phillips warns in the short- term Welsh health boards could
:20:38. > :20:42.struggle to meet the extra costs of providing services needed to
:20:43. > :20:47.transplant organs. The difficulty now in the current climate is that
:20:47. > :20:53.obviously, health boards are suffering severe financial
:20:53. > :21:00.restraint. There is very limited spare capacity in the system to be
:21:00. > :21:06.able to engage in new technologies and undertake more and more
:21:06. > :21:10.operations, without having savings to release resources and make
:21:10. > :21:13.savings elsewhere. He's worried that this will put more pressure on
:21:13. > :21:20.already stretched hospitals and without adequate resources, organs
:21:20. > :21:23.could go to waste. We're already struggling in many hospitals in
:21:23. > :21:28.Wales because of the pressure on critical care beds on intensive
:21:28. > :21:33.care, which has a knock-on effect on theatre time. We could see that
:21:33. > :21:37.there will be system where there are, it's impossible to actually
:21:37. > :21:41.undertake the operation and in that sense, the potential organ may well
:21:41. > :21:44.not actually materialise. Potentially a beneficiary will not
:21:44. > :21:51.receive the benefits that the policy and the bill is seeking to
:21:51. > :21:56.ensure will be the case. Spain has the highest rate of organ donations
:21:56. > :22:02.in the world. It also has around three times as many intensive care
:22:02. > :22:07.beds as Wales. The number of ITU beds here has fallen 5% year on
:22:07. > :22:13.year, which is something John Saunders says places too much
:22:13. > :22:16.strain on services. I see in my own hospital and ITU that functions
:22:16. > :22:20.almost at capacity the whole time. Trying to squeeze more through it
:22:20. > :22:27.would be difficult. I'm sure that must be true of other ITUs
:22:27. > :22:30.throughout Wales. There may need to be additional investment in
:22:30. > :22:34.intensive care and theatre facilities. Account Welsh NHS even
:22:34. > :22:39.find the money and the skilled staff to make the new system work?
:22:39. > :22:45.One of the things you're going to do is require local health boards
:22:45. > :22:48.to take on the additional cost of providing beds and theatre time, at
:22:48. > :22:51.a time when they're already stretched to breaking point to
:22:51. > :22:55.introduce this new legislation. Is that sensible? We give health
:22:55. > :22:59.boards huge budgets. They obviously will have to work within that
:22:59. > :23:06.budget. I've already said we're not expecting hundreds of operations to
:23:06. > :23:12.come out of this. But we do expect many lives to be saved. Becky
:23:12. > :23:19.Kelly's son saved lives. His organs have given someone else a chance,
:23:19. > :23:24.but making the decision wasn't easy. We had to turn the ventilator off.
:23:24. > :23:27.He had to die within a certain amount of time. His heart had to
:23:27. > :23:32.stop beating and he had to stop breathing in a certain amount of
:23:32. > :23:38.time so that his organs were oxygenated. Then he did eventually
:23:38. > :23:42.go in that small amount of time. After he'd gone, they asked me
:23:42. > :23:49.whether or not I'd like his hand prints and locks of his hair. Of
:23:49. > :23:52.course, I said yes. Then I had a letter about a week afterwards
:23:52. > :24:00.saying he had saved a young man's life of 32, who is going to get
:24:00. > :24:08.married and he's got three children. For Becki, her son and the life he
:24:08. > :24:14.saved, the current system worked. Having Antony's organs given to
:24:14. > :24:20.other people, you know, to save lives, makes me feel absolutely
:24:20. > :24:24.amazing. I'm so proud of him. He's so proud of himself. I know it. I
:24:24. > :24:31.feel it inside, how proud he would be of himself for saving these
:24:31. > :24:36.people. If the law does change, it's not clear how many patients in
:24:36. > :24:41.Wales will benefit. Over the last four years, 70% of organs retrieved
:24:41. > :24:45.here were used in transplants outside Wales. The greatest confrom
:24:45. > :24:50.this is that this idea of Welsh organs for Welsh patients and Wales
:24:50. > :24:55.is part of the UK. Welsh organs get used in England and like-wise
:24:55. > :24:58.English organs get used in Wales. But people in England and Scotland
:24:58. > :25:02.and Northern Ireland will benefit from more Welsh organs if we do see
:25:02. > :25:06.an increase in the rate of organ donation. I think we need to make
:25:06. > :25:08.that clear to people that if there is any increase in the rate of
:25:09. > :25:12.organ donation in the future, there's no guarantee that Mrs Jones
:25:12. > :25:16.down the road will get the kidney she needs because for whatever
:25:16. > :25:21.reason, that could be used in Bristol. The kidney Mark received
:25:21. > :25:24.was from outside Wales. What matters, he believes, is that more
:25:24. > :25:30.organs are available and if that means changing the law, he'll
:25:30. > :25:34.support it. I hope, let's put awe hope on this, that if we do it in
:25:34. > :25:40.Wales, then other parts of the UK will follow. Because yeah, I would
:25:41. > :25:44.be quite I would be a little bit grieved if it's only in Wales and
:25:44. > :25:50.not anywhere else. I want it to be Wales that says right, OK, we'll go
:25:50. > :25:54.first, you guys follow. I think they will follow. Because I think
:25:54. > :26:00.that people will. They just sometimes we need to be led to
:26:00. > :26:03.water, don't we? We all need to be led sometimes. This is the time,
:26:03. > :26:07.hopefully, we can lead. If the new policy is introduced other
:26:07. > :26:12.countries will be watching what happens here. But some feel we're
:26:12. > :26:19.heading in the wrong direction. pop Titians want to be seen to be
:26:19. > :26:22.doing something that's good. They need a quick fix. Pre presumed
:26:22. > :26:29.consent, we're told let's go the extra mile, do this, do that. It's
:26:29. > :26:36.a quick fix. It's not going to work. But what leads the debate? Hard
:26:36. > :26:39.facts or sentiment and emotion? It's almost as though the debate
:26:39. > :26:43.has become one of good and evil. That somehow those people who
:26:43. > :26:47.support a change in the law are good. They're doing their guardian
:26:47. > :26:51.angel bit looking after those who need that organ transplantation.
:26:51. > :26:55.And those of us who are somehow against presumed consent are taking
:26:55. > :26:59.a rather evil, nasty approach because we're therefore getting in
:26:59. > :27:02.the way of people who are dying in Wales because they can't get a
:27:02. > :27:07.transplabt. I don't think Government has taken the right
:27:07. > :27:13.decision based on the evidence available to it. You can't have
:27:13. > :27:18.Government making decisions purely on emotion. That's dangerous.
:27:18. > :27:23.Certainly I wouldn't say that, guardian angels and evil. That's
:27:23. > :27:28.raising the emotion. I can see it's an emotive issue. It's an emotive
:27:28. > :27:32.issue for a lot of people who are waiting for transplants. I just
:27:32. > :27:35.think this is the right way forward. As a Government we believe it's the
:27:35. > :27:39.right way forward. Certainly a lot of miff colleagues in the Assembly,
:27:39. > :27:43.cross-party, think it's the right way forward. If it saves lives,
:27:43. > :27:48.then absolutely it's the right way forward.
:27:48. > :27:52.Assmebly Members are due to vote on the new Human Transplantation Bill
:27:52. > :27:55.in January. But the final decision might not rest there. The Welsh
:27:55. > :27:59.Government's authority to change the law could be challenged in the
:27:59. > :28:04.Supreme Court. Some think there's a much simpler way forward. You don't
:28:04. > :28:09.need to set up an expensive system, pass legislation. Tell everybody
:28:10. > :28:15.that tonight you'll talk to your husband, wife, your mother, father
:28:15. > :28:19.and say - yes, I do or no, I don't. Everyone agrees that more organs
:28:19. > :28:24.are needed for transplantation. The issue is how that's done. Now he's
:28:24. > :28:28.18, Mitchell just wants the chance at life. It's sad to think people
:28:28. > :28:34.are dying and they could be donating their organs, but because
:28:34. > :28:38.they're not, other people are dying too. I don't want that to happen to
:28:38. > :28:43.me. I don't want eventually, you know, if it's six months, six years
:28:43. > :28:50.down-the-line, I want to know there are hearts in the bank so there's
:28:50. > :28:53.one for me. A brighter future is what Mark would like to believe in
:28:53. > :28:58.too. But he's just been told by a doctor that a virus might be
:28:58. > :29:03.attacking his transplanted kidney. I felt that this kidney being such
:29:03. > :29:06.a good match was going to last me much longer. It was going to be
:29:06. > :29:11.sort of, it might see me out. It doesn't look as if that's going to