:00:12. > :00:17.Loud and angry - of this is the backlash over the biggest ever
:00:17. > :00:20.shake-up of the NHS in Wales. have no confidence in the dough not
:00:20. > :00:26.saying there. Tonight, we ask who is right in the growing row over
:00:26. > :00:29.how and where we receive care. price do you put on a live? Will
:00:29. > :00:34.reveal only to letter that has raised questions about moving sick
:00:34. > :00:37.babies over the border. There were questions about rude staff and poor
:00:37. > :00:41.care for some patients. It is regrettable that those kind of
:00:41. > :00:45.statements were made. We discover a dramatic rise in health complaints
:00:45. > :00:49.across Wales, so what does the Minister make of it? When ago and
:00:49. > :00:52.hospitals I have never come across a patient who has criticised it.
:00:52. > :01:02.There will be people thinking that perhaps you live in a parallel
:01:02. > :01:13.
:01:14. > :01:19.How old is the patient? Is she a way? Is she taking breaths in and
:01:19. > :01:23.out? Every day, the Welsh NHS is struggling to deliver. We are told
:01:23. > :01:27.we need a better, safer NHS in Wales but instead of treating the
:01:27. > :01:35.problem, those in charge are now being accused of making things
:01:35. > :01:39.worse. And the patients are not taking it lying down. The new media
:01:39. > :01:45.started badly for MS sufferer Beverley Miles from Pontrhydyfen
:01:45. > :01:51.near Port Talbot. She spent 19 hours in Morriston Hospital's A&E.
:01:51. > :01:56.It was just chaos there. Absolute chaos. Every trolley because they
:01:56. > :02:01.were not beds, they were trollies, was full of people. Next to me, the
:02:01. > :02:08.one after, the one after. The nurses will running around, people
:02:08. > :02:12.were screaming. On 2nd January, A&E was busier than normal with 240
:02:12. > :02:17.patients, many seriously ill. Seven wards were closed because of an
:02:17. > :02:20.outbreak of norovirus. Beverley was scared. It makes you wonder whether
:02:20. > :02:24.you were in the right place, whether you're going to be looked
:02:25. > :02:30.after. Her husband Hywel stayed with Beverley throat. He was
:02:30. > :02:34.becoming more anxious about what he saw. -- throughout. Something was
:02:34. > :02:37.not right. The place was being overwhelmed. From that point, I
:02:37. > :02:41.started looking around a bit more carefully at what exactly was going
:02:41. > :02:46.on. He saw ambulances queuing outside because there were no beds
:02:46. > :02:50.available. Beverley also had to wait until the next day to be moved
:02:50. > :02:57.to award. I was put into a room where there were another three
:02:57. > :03:03.ladies. One lady just kept calling for the nurse. A smell of urine and
:03:03. > :03:09.excrement as you go in there. It was overpowering. I wanted to go
:03:09. > :03:13.home. I did not want to stay there. It was just horrendous. The system
:03:13. > :03:19.we all depend on was under strain. The day before, great-grandmother
:03:20. > :03:27.Joan Perego was also let down by the NHS. She was out walking with
:03:27. > :03:31.her family in Burry Port when she fell over. We were all enjoying
:03:31. > :03:37.ourselves and I suddenly caught my toe in something and I fell forward
:03:37. > :03:44.to on my front. 78-year-old Joan was lying in the cold, bruised and
:03:44. > :03:47.bleeding. I phoned 999 and when I said her face was bleeding, they
:03:47. > :03:52.told us to go and knock for a neighbour and get a towel, a
:03:52. > :03:56.blanket or anything to try and make them more comfortable. She says
:03:56. > :04:02.ambulance control warned there would be a delay. Roxanne
:04:02. > :04:07.photographed the scene as time went on. You have heard so much about
:04:07. > :04:12.the ambulance service in Wales lately. I kept thinking five
:04:12. > :04:15.minutes. We kept phoning. People in the house is worth owning. There
:04:15. > :04:22.was a lot of blood and it was getting obvious it was worse than
:04:22. > :04:26.we thought. Joan has a heart condition but her family were
:04:26. > :04:29.worried she may have broken bones so did not want to move her. It was
:04:29. > :04:36.an hour-and-a-half in the end that we waited for the ambulance. We
:04:36. > :04:39.ended up taking her to hospital ourselves. Joan was later dis
:04:39. > :04:42.charged from Glangwili Hospital in Carmarthen. The ambulance service
:04:42. > :04:50.said that crews were so busy that day dealing with emergencies there
:04:50. > :04:53.simply was not anyone to send. just don't think it's good enough
:04:53. > :04:58.to have someone lying for an hour- and-a-half on the floor after an
:04:58. > :05:03.accident. Two patience, two families feeling let down by the
:05:03. > :05:08.NHS. It is at a pressure point now where unless they have the
:05:08. > :05:16.resources and things are managed more appropriately, it will just go
:05:16. > :05:22.Many people working in the Welsh NHS will tell you that things just
:05:22. > :05:27.have to change. Health boards have radical plans that will alter how
:05:27. > :05:32.and where we receive care. Large sums are being spent on a public
:05:33. > :05:41.consultation process but the response so far has been blunt and
:05:41. > :05:46.very angry. North Wales protesters have literally been banging out a
:05:46. > :05:49.message for Health Minister Lesley Griffiths. They are angry because
:05:49. > :05:53.of plans for change by the Betsi Cadwaladr Health Board. In the
:05:53. > :05:57.coming months, all Welsh health boards will reveal their plans to
:05:57. > :06:04.reshape our NHS and the minister says changes needed, whether people
:06:04. > :06:08.like it or not. Do you understand how angry people are? Of course I
:06:08. > :06:13.understand people's concerns but we need to make these changes now in
:06:13. > :06:17.order to have a safe and sustainable NHS across the whole of
:06:17. > :06:20.Wales for the next decade and a decade be on that. If we do not do
:06:20. > :06:25.something now, we will have some services that could collapse. I
:06:25. > :06:30.will not sit back and allow that to happen. Protesters have accused the
:06:30. > :06:35.health board tear of risking lives with plans to cut hospital beds and
:06:35. > :06:39.moved some neonatal care services to England. I have no confidence in
:06:39. > :06:45.the doughnuts in there. Campaigners John and Nicola believe this is
:06:45. > :06:49.literally a matter of life and death. Their daughter Molly was
:06:49. > :06:53.born two months prematurely at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd. The staff and
:06:53. > :07:01.the doctors saved our daughter's life and I will be they ever in
:07:02. > :07:07.their debt. She was only �3 when she was born. -- three pounds in
:07:07. > :07:16.weight. There were wires and all sorts of things coming out of her.
:07:16. > :07:21.Her life was on a knife-edge. Just like many other families whose
:07:21. > :07:24.babies' lives are on a knife-edge. They live just 15 minutes from
:07:24. > :07:31.their local hospital. When Nicola needed an emergency Caesarean,
:07:31. > :07:37.every minute counted. To have everything on your doorstep there,
:07:37. > :07:40.ready, was a life saver because, you know, they saved Molly's life.
:07:40. > :07:44.It was a traumatic experience, especially with three other
:07:44. > :07:51.children at home to worry about. had to rely on friends and family
:07:51. > :07:55.to look after the children here. Nicola needed me down there. This
:07:55. > :07:59.is where the health board wants to send around 40 babies eight-year
:07:59. > :08:06.who needs the most specialist intensive care. It is Arrowe Park
:08:06. > :08:11.Hospital on the Wirral. Had Nicola been whisked off over the border to
:08:11. > :08:15.Arrowe Park Hospital, there would have been another 90 minute wait
:08:15. > :08:20.for the ambulance to come to pick her up and then another 90 minutes
:08:20. > :08:24.for her to get to the hospital. They are putting more stress on the
:08:24. > :08:30.mother, the baby, the family. Babies could lose their lives
:08:30. > :08:35.through this. The health board says it cannot attract enough
:08:35. > :08:40.specialists to the region and its plans will improve the service. It
:08:40. > :08:44.will also save �1.1 million. But the plans have turned into a PR
:08:44. > :08:48.nightmare because the new unit is outside Wales. It will be very
:08:48. > :08:52.difficult for families and I accept that. I still think this is the
:08:52. > :08:56.best solution despite those types of concerns. People do have to
:08:56. > :08:59.travel long distances and they accept travelling long distances in
:08:59. > :09:03.North Wales. My view is that if they recognise they are getting the
:09:03. > :09:07.best possible care for their very young, very small babies, they will
:09:07. > :09:12.think that is worthwhile. Arrowe Park Hospital has had problems of
:09:12. > :09:15.its own. Last November, a letter was leaked from the head of its
:09:15. > :09:18.midwifery service raising serious issues about the standard of care.
:09:19. > :09:24.There were concerns about record- keeping, rude staff, poor
:09:24. > :09:29.communication, poor care for some patients. Would you admit a what
:09:29. > :09:36.they were doing so be was not good enough? I am aware of some of those
:09:36. > :09:39.issues. It is very regrettable that those kind of statements were made.
:09:39. > :09:42.We have sought assurance from Arrowe Park Hospital that they have
:09:42. > :09:45.a say that quality service and we have been provided with that
:09:46. > :09:50.assurance. If we have any sense that we cannot provide for those
:09:50. > :09:54.babies well, we will ensure that they are provided in a better
:09:55. > :09:59.environment. Where would that be? Most likely at the Liverpool
:09:59. > :10:02.Women's Hospital. That is even further away. Yes but it is
:10:03. > :10:07.essential that we provide the right kind of care for those babies. To
:10:07. > :10:11.put into context, we are talking around 36 babies a year that need
:10:11. > :10:16.this type of intensive care. We will still have 700 babies being
:10:16. > :10:19.managed within North Wales within a special care baby units. Some or
:10:19. > :10:25.staff are so worried they have asked their professional bodies to
:10:25. > :10:30.intervene. We have, in an unprecedented way, come together on
:10:30. > :10:35.this particular matter. Those nurses and doctors have come
:10:36. > :10:43.together to say, "This is wrong for North Wales, wrong for our patients,
:10:43. > :10:46.and we have got to speak out". members do not believe they have
:10:46. > :10:52.been consulted and that their concerns have been fully taken into
:10:52. > :10:57.account. What price do you put on a life at that age? The health board
:10:57. > :11:01.insists that its plans are based on clinical evidence. While the
:11:01. > :11:05.arguments continue, hospitals still have to deliver. But there is a
:11:06. > :11:09.warning - it is getting harder. And this is often the first sign of
:11:10. > :11:15.trouble - ambulances queuing outside A&E because there are not
:11:15. > :11:20.enough beds. So times we have patients in areas where we did not
:11:20. > :11:24.like them to be. -- sometimes. Consultant Mark Poulden represents
:11:24. > :11:28.the College of emergency medicine in Wales. Certainly this year, I
:11:28. > :11:34.would say on most days of the year we have had patients in the
:11:34. > :11:38.Department longer than they have needed to be. If they are coming in
:11:38. > :11:44.on an ambulance, they often remain on an ambulance stretcher,
:11:44. > :11:47.sometimes in an ambulance outside. He works at the A&E department of
:11:47. > :11:54.Morriston Hospital in Swansea. Morriston Hospital is like any of
:11:54. > :12:00.the large departments in Wales - and extreme pressure.
:12:00. > :12:07.Intolerable pressure? I think it is sustained and I think that the
:12:07. > :12:10.staff are under extreme pressure every day. Mark Poulden says his
:12:10. > :12:14.colleagues in other Welsh hospitals say they cannot meet targets for
:12:15. > :12:19.waiting time. There is a broad target of trying to get people
:12:19. > :12:24.through within about four hours. I think across Wales, we have had
:12:24. > :12:28.patients who have been at up to 12 and even 24 hours within the
:12:28. > :12:32.emergency department waiting for beds. Do doctors and nurses, under
:12:32. > :12:38.these circumstances, have the time to be able to do the job in the way
:12:38. > :12:41.they would like to? The truth of that, no. I think we do our best
:12:41. > :12:46.but I think that is one of the most frustrating things despite
:12:46. > :12:51.everything, knowing that at the end of the day you have not read the
:12:51. > :12:57.done what you have really wanted to for the patient. And you may have
:12:57. > :13:07.taken some short cuts to try to do the best for everyone that is in
:13:07. > :13:10.
:13:10. > :13:14.Between August and December last year, hospitals in five out of six
:13:14. > :13:19.Welsh health boards were over 82% full.
:13:20. > :13:24.Beverley was moved to four different wards during her five
:13:24. > :13:28.days at Morriston and male and female patients had to share
:13:28. > :13:33.bathrooms. I went into the toilet which was
:13:33. > :13:37.open and when I got in there this gentleman was, well naked really
:13:37. > :13:42.and trying to clean his bottom. Every time I went into that toilet
:13:42. > :13:47.I would have to clean it because there would be excrement on the
:13:47. > :13:52.toilets and when I mentioned it to the nurse, the fact that the the
:13:52. > :13:56.toilets were unclean and unhygienic, "We are not allowed to do it
:13:56. > :14:02.because of health and safety. Only the cleaners can do that." I found
:14:02. > :14:07.a tub with like hygienic wipes and I I pinched some of them. I brought
:14:07. > :14:11.them out and I kept them and every time I went into the toilet I wiped
:14:11. > :14:17.around and cleaned everything. And I would say to them, "I have
:14:17. > :14:22.cleaned the toilet." "ah, thank you.". The hospital is
:14:22. > :14:27.investigating Beverley's concerns about hygiene. It says it regularly
:14:27. > :14:31.does spot checks on cleanliness and nurses are allowed to clean toilets
:14:32. > :14:35.when necessary. Beverley's husband said staff seemed under pressure.
:14:35. > :14:38.have to stick up for the nursing staff because they were overwhelmed
:14:38. > :14:41.and there wasn't enough of them to manage the level of patients they
:14:41. > :14:46.had. Since New Year, the hospital has
:14:46. > :14:50.increased staffing in A&E, but it is trying to recruit more doctors.
:14:50. > :14:53.Hywel has complained about what happened to Beverley. We have
:14:53. > :15:00.discovered across Wales, there has been a big rise in the number of
:15:00. > :15:05.complaints about the NHS. And this is where many patients come to
:15:05. > :15:14.complain. The numbers of complaints to my office have increased
:15:14. > :15:16.dramatically since it was established in 2006, we have a 255%
:15:16. > :15:20.increase in health complaints to this office which is very
:15:20. > :15:25.significant. Of the health complaints we investigate, we
:15:25. > :15:30.uphold more than half. Since last year, Peter Tyndall's team dealt
:15:30. > :15:34.with 700 cases of patients who said they were let down. Part of it is
:15:34. > :15:38.due to the high-profile of the office and the higher profile of
:15:38. > :15:44.the complaints system within the NHS. Some of it inevitably has to
:15:44. > :15:46.be down to the fact there is growing dissatisfaction about the
:15:46. > :15:52.quality of care that people are receiving. Are people being treated
:15:52. > :15:55.as people? Are they receiving food? Just basic, the basics of care. We
:15:56. > :16:01.also have particular worries about the quality of monitoring and
:16:01. > :16:08.record keeping and so on, and you can't continue with the NHS as it
:16:08. > :16:11.is currently delivered to meet ever increasing levels of need with
:16:11. > :16:14.finite resources. Unless you you change, the services will become
:16:14. > :16:17.less safe. What does the Health Minister make
:16:17. > :16:24.of this? The ombudsman has seen a rise in
:16:24. > :16:28.complaints of 255% since 2006, concerning the Welsh NHS. That
:16:28. > :16:33.doesn't sound like a system that's succeeding? Well, I disagree. We
:16:33. > :16:37.have put regulation ins place where people know know how to complain
:16:37. > :16:41.and if something has gone wrong they have every right to complain.
:16:41. > :16:45.We have an NHS in Wales to be proud of. I get fed-up of people talking
:16:45. > :16:50.it down. When I go into healthcare settings, I don't think I have come
:16:50. > :16:53.across a patient who criticised. Of course things go wrong. When you
:16:53. > :16:56.have human beings treating human beings there will be times when
:16:56. > :17:02.things go wrong. There will be people listening to
:17:02. > :17:06.this and thinking perhaps you live in a parallel universe. There is no
:17:06. > :17:11.end of complaints. The hole system is creeking and groaning. It is
:17:11. > :17:16.falling apart and it is falling apart on your watch. Had is why we
:17:16. > :17:20.have to reconfigure because we are concern if we don't do something
:17:20. > :17:25.now, services will collapse. I don't live in a parallel universe.
:17:25. > :17:30.Health boards have been consuling the public over NHS reform, but
:17:30. > :17:36.their critics say the hole process has been -- whole process has been
:17:36. > :17:39.an expensive farce and it is about to become the Welsh Health
:17:39. > :17:44.Minister's worst nightmare. Plan to say change the A&E cover here at
:17:44. > :17:51.Prince Philip Hospital caused outrage. They were among proposals
:17:51. > :17:55.for Mid and West Wales published by the the Hywel Dda health board.
:17:55. > :18:01.Plans for a nurse-led unit angered protesters who have been meeting to
:18:01. > :18:04.plan a campaign. We are all behind each other 100%
:18:04. > :18:08.and we won't back down because they are wrong and we're not.
:18:08. > :18:18.Last year, in a vocal campaign, they presented the biggest petition
:18:18. > :18:19.
:18:19. > :18:24.ever seen at the the Parliament. They think their voice and their
:18:25. > :18:29.petition has been ignored. Something the health board denies.
:18:29. > :18:34.And I think they think because we have got a deprived population with
:18:34. > :18:37.lots of poverty that we are all stupid. We will be convinced by
:18:37. > :18:41.this wonderful document that tells us we are going to have a
:18:41. > :18:49.marvellous new service when we know we will have less service.
:18:49. > :18:53.Hywel Dda has spent over �125,000 on its consultation process. In
:18:53. > :18:56.Llanelli it hasn't not paid off. Anybody with a bit of grey matter
:18:56. > :19:01.can see this is fraud. The health board told us they have
:19:01. > :19:05.listened to objections but insist its plans are for the best. Do you
:19:05. > :19:09.say that you have consulted sufficiently? You have talked to
:19:09. > :19:16.people in that community and informed them properly of what your
:19:16. > :19:19.plans are? We are confident in terms of the 12 month listening
:19:20. > :19:23.engagement and consultation process that has been under taken.
:19:23. > :19:27.But that's why a consultation process of that type, it is so
:19:27. > :19:34.important to win over the hearts and minds of the people and you
:19:34. > :19:38.just haven't done it, have you? will never get 1 100% of the people
:19:38. > :19:44.agreeing with every change and every challenge that the NHS faces
:19:44. > :19:47.and I do agree that this is an ongoing challenge for the whole of
:19:47. > :19:51.the NHS and Hywel Dda being a major part of that.
:19:51. > :19:55.The local community health council is the watchdog which has powers to
:19:55. > :19:59.refer the plans back to the Health Minister. They have called the
:19:59. > :20:03.consultation a charade. These are the words that have been
:20:03. > :20:09.said to me by many people out there, members of the public, they feel
:20:09. > :20:12.that the whole thing has been a charade. And not everybody might
:20:12. > :20:15.agree with their conclusions, but they have listened and they have
:20:15. > :20:19.consulted? On the face of it, yes, you would have to argue they did
:20:19. > :20:24.listen, but sometimes you wonder, you know, did it come into one ear
:20:24. > :20:28.and go out the other? He is not convinced that Hywel
:20:28. > :20:32.Dda's plans are best for patients. As far as I'm concerned it is about
:20:32. > :20:36.money. We did say from the beginning of this, that we wouldn't
:20:36. > :20:40.let money become the obstacle for the delivery of good services. It
:20:40. > :20:46.is very, very difficult from our point of view to see where those
:20:46. > :20:53.better services will be delivered. The campaigners are still up for
:20:53. > :20:56.the fight. Local Labour politicians including
:20:56. > :20:59.MP, Nia Griffiths, are among the protesters.
:20:59. > :21:05.I don't think they have come up with the solution because they
:21:05. > :21:10.realise... But what would she do if the Labour Health Minister sided
:21:10. > :21:13.with the health board, instead of her voters in Llanelli? It would be
:21:13. > :21:20.a difficult position for me. Would you resign? She is in charge
:21:20. > :21:22.of health and the assembly... you resign? Well, let's see what
:21:22. > :21:25.happens on that. Have you thought about it? Well,
:21:25. > :21:30.the key thing at the moment is to try to get things right. I think it
:21:30. > :21:35.is very important that we talk about things. That we don't rush
:21:35. > :21:40.off in a huff to do this, that or the other, but we try to get the
:21:40. > :21:45.best best options that we can. In the campaign meeting, one local
:21:45. > :21:48.Labour stalwart had enough. I am sorry to say I have resigned
:21:48. > :21:55.for the Labour Party over this and I have been voting for the Labour
:21:55. > :21:59.Party since 1958 and I regret I have got to hand my card in. It is
:21:59. > :22:03.disgusting, I think. If they can, they say they will
:22:03. > :22:10.challenge, Hywel Dda in the courts. The public of Llanelli will take it
:22:10. > :22:16.the hole way. I don't think they will give the fight up easily. I am
:22:16. > :22:22.sure this time, they will take it all the way.
:22:22. > :22:26.Illustrating the tension between the health board and community
:22:26. > :22:28.health council, Tony Wales has accused them of using undue
:22:28. > :22:33.pressure against him and their own staff.
:22:33. > :22:36.I have had certain pressures that have been exerted on me, but I am
:22:36. > :22:41.big enough and ugly enough to look after myself, I don't worry too
:22:41. > :22:46.much about that, but I worry for those clinicians because I have got
:22:46. > :22:51.clinicians that have come to me directly and indirectly and
:22:51. > :22:58.allegedly saying, "We want to speak out. There is a real fear culture
:22:58. > :23:03.in terms of if we say anything, life already made -- will be made
:23:03. > :23:07.very, very wack ard for us.". health board deny the allegations,
:23:07. > :23:11.he says he has a urgent duty to discuss these matters with them.
:23:11. > :23:16.The board says it is talking to its doctors about how to introduce the
:23:16. > :23:19.changes to A&E. The relationship between the Hywel Dda health board
:23:19. > :23:25.and its community health council seems to be strained. What would
:23:25. > :23:28.you say about that? We consider the community health council a key
:23:28. > :23:35.partner in the planning and the implementation. It is important to
:23:35. > :23:39.keep that dialogue going and keep that relationship in terms of open,
:23:39. > :23:44.and transparency. I am confident that we have the plans now in place
:23:44. > :23:48.for us to start implementing a service that is far safer and far
:23:48. > :23:53.more sustainable. Would you and your colleagues stake your jobs on
:23:53. > :23:57.that? We have committed as a board that we are confident that the
:23:57. > :24:01.models that we have put forward are the right ones for Hywel Dda.
:24:01. > :24:07.As they try to find a way forward, the community health council met
:24:07. > :24:11.the health board again today. For her part, the minister insists that
:24:11. > :24:15.consultation is working. Well, what you have got in West Wales is the
:24:15. > :24:18.community health council and the health board at each others throats.
:24:18. > :24:21.There is a possibility that the changes in North Wales could be
:24:21. > :24:25.referred to you too. These decisions might end up on your
:24:25. > :24:29.desk? Yes, I am aware of that. you are prepared to make tough
:24:29. > :24:33.decisions that are going to upset Labour voters in Labour heartlands,
:24:33. > :24:37.are you? It is not about upsetting people. I want the best services we
:24:37. > :24:42.can have in Wales. Right across Wales, of course, I will have to
:24:42. > :24:46.make tough decisions, I am not in this job to not make tough
:24:46. > :24:49.decisions, I am not going to shy away from tough decisions, if we
:24:49. > :24:53.don't do anything now, we will have a Health Service where some
:24:53. > :24:57.services will collapse. I can't let that happen.
:24:57. > :25:01.How Popular do you think you are in Flint? You are not in this job to
:25:01. > :25:04.be popular, but I know I would not be able to sleep in my bed if I
:25:04. > :25:09.allowed services to collapse. I will not support unsafe services
:25:09. > :25:13.and if I was, you would be the first to criticise me.
:25:13. > :25:19.Last week, outside the minister's constituency office, there was
:25:19. > :25:24.plenty of critics. Let us assure you, Lesley Griffiths,
:25:24. > :25:31.there are plenty of people ready to fight for a descend NHS in North
:25:31. > :25:36.Wales. If you betray that trust, he will not go away, will we?
:25:36. > :25:46.We will not forget when the next election comes around, will we?
:25:46. > :25:46.
:25:46. > :25:49.Thank you very much. Fantastic. It has been a shambles. The public
:25:49. > :25:55.consultation process has been a disaster and I would call upon the
:25:55. > :26:02.minister. Betsi Cadwaladr health board spent
:26:02. > :26:06.�126,000 on consultation, but it brought cross party crit criticism.
:26:06. > :26:08.The Wales Office need to look at whether these consultations are
:26:08. > :26:12.value for money. Hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money has
:26:12. > :26:16.been expenned orch on trying to engage the public in decision
:26:16. > :26:22.making and the outcome of the consultations appears to most
:26:22. > :26:27.people, to have been ignored. That is not good good use of taxpayers
:26:27. > :26:32.money. The health board will know by 1st
:26:32. > :26:35.March if the minister is going to intervene in the row over its plans.
:26:35. > :26:38.Arrowe Park told us it believes it has one of the best maternity
:26:38. > :26:46.services in the region and is assessing its services.
:26:46. > :26:51.It says since the leaked letter, it has been audited by regulators who
:26:51. > :26:55.gave positive feedback, but for the campaigners like the Hewitts', the
:26:55. > :26:57.fight isn't over. It is not the health board who will
:26:57. > :27:00.be going through the unit. It is these families and they are the
:27:00. > :27:05.important ones. At the end of the day, we are right.
:27:05. > :27:10.You can't put these families through this, but we'll fight it to
:27:10. > :27:14.the end. But have they already lost? Some
:27:14. > :27:17.campaigners fear it maybe a foregone conclusion.
:27:17. > :27:21.It has been suggested if it is referred back to you, it will be a
:27:21. > :27:25.waste of time because you will rubber stamp the decision that the
:27:25. > :27:31.health boards made? I will not rubber stamp anything. I will have
:27:31. > :27:36.to look at it in great detail. Is there a chance that some of the
:27:36. > :27:40.closures might not happen? We will look at it by a case by case basis.
:27:40. > :27:43.The other health boards will publish their prescription for
:27:43. > :27:47.change and more protests will follow. But whatever form it takes,
:27:47. > :27:51.change must come. Unless there is significant change, it is very
:27:51. > :27:56.difficult to see how the complaint totals won't continue to rise. I
:27:56. > :28:06.think the status quo isn't workable. It is increasingly going to
:28:06. > :28:09.
:28:09. > :28:13.Joan is back with the family and feeling better after her ordeal.
:28:13. > :28:16.Beverley is continuing to receive treatment, both are recovering, but
:28:16. > :28:23.their faith in the NHS still has not been restored.