:00:09. > :00:14.since I last presented Week In Week Out. Tonight, I'm back with a
:00:14. > :00:17.vengeance, older? Certainly. Wiser? I hope. I'm here to report on the
:00:17. > :00:27.deepening crisis in the Welsh economy and how the Welsh Assembly
:00:27. > :00:30.
:00:30. > :00:37.Government is handling it. The BBC has asked me to do it because I was
:00:37. > :00:41.a television journalist for nearly 40 years. But also because for more
:00:41. > :00:47.than 25 years, I've been heavily involved with Welsh industry. As
:00:47. > :00:52.such, I have some stark messages for Welsh politicians. You're the Welsh
:00:52. > :01:02.creators and destroyers. They tell me you're a NEET, what's that?
:01:02. > :01:32.
:01:32. > :01:37.2030, the smart people will have We are the poorest region in the UK.
:01:37. > :01:41.If this is a crisis, the future is an emergency. European business
:01:41. > :01:45.leaders have drawn a line in the sand, 2030. By then they say the
:01:45. > :01:50.global economy will be totally different from anything we know
:01:50. > :01:55.today, exlosively competitive. That means the children starting school
:01:55. > :02:01.this year in Cambodia and Vietnam and throughout Asia and South
:02:01. > :02:05.America will emerge from their educational process as productive
:02:05. > :02:11.workers in booming economies. What about the children starting school
:02:11. > :02:18.near Wales this year? What's does the future hold for them? It pains
:02:18. > :02:28.me to say that unless urgent action is taken they will emerge from their
:02:28. > :02:34.
:02:35. > :02:40.educational process into a clapped The village where they parents live
:02:40. > :02:45.shows evidence of serious decline. We have slipped 12 percentage points
:02:45. > :02:51.against average UK GDP in 20 years. This is an unemployment black spot.
:02:51. > :02:57.A quarter out of work, twice the UK average. At the community centre
:02:57. > :03:01.there's a jobs club to help people find work. Wayne, a paint sprar, has
:03:01. > :03:06.applied for 77 jobs since he was made redundant in February. Any
:03:06. > :03:14.response at all from any of them? Yes, but one response by mail and
:03:14. > :03:19.I've had one letter off a company. They said they will keep my CV on
:03:19. > :03:24.file. Most of the stuff I'm searching for now, especially in the
:03:24. > :03:30.powder coating, is mostly up in the Midlands. Nothing here in Wales?Not
:03:30. > :03:35.a lot, no. You're still fit and well? Yes, fit and raring to go.You
:03:35. > :03:42.really have a skill too. Yeah.Well keep trying. Yes, I will.Never give
:03:42. > :03:47.up. No.They tell me you're a NEET, what's that? Well not in education
:03:47. > :03:52.or training or I haven't got a job. Have you ever had a job yet? Yes.
:03:52. > :03:57.Was that? Working in the local Chinese round here and when I was
:03:57. > :04:04.16. How many jobs have you applied for? I applied for about 15, 20 a
:04:04. > :04:08.week. Because of my lack of skills in some departments, I find it hard,
:04:08. > :04:12.like they don't get back to me or send me e-mails saying I haven't
:04:12. > :04:18.been successful. Though I try really hard I still don't get anywhere. So
:04:18. > :04:23.it's pretty hopeless? Yeah, it does get you down a lot. I don't sleep
:04:23. > :04:30.often. Because I think what am I going to do. How old are you?19.
:04:30. > :04:34.Nobody seems to look upon you to help, like, but it is quite depress
:04:34. > :04:40.depressing. I'm only 19 as well, people think oh, yeah it's easy for
:04:40. > :04:44.youngsters to get a job, but it's really not. Kate Gillet helps people
:04:44. > :04:51.find work, but the only local vacancies are in construction or
:04:51. > :04:59.care homes. You're suggestioning that if there are jobs they're
:04:59. > :05:02.likely to be far away, nothing much here? There isn't much here, other
:05:02. > :05:05.than partime positions. People are cutting their cloth with the
:05:05. > :05:10.economy. Even organisations have to rein it in some way. We're finding
:05:10. > :05:20.that flexible working practices and partime positions are more likely to
:05:20. > :05:20.
:05:20. > :05:26.come up on your search than fulltime positions. Aim a qualified
:05:26. > :05:31.plasterer. And you can't find a job? How many have you tried? 30 plus.
:05:31. > :05:36.Will do you if you can't get a job? I'm just going to keep looking.
:05:36. > :05:40.you going to do any more training, perhaps? If it has to come down to
:05:40. > :05:50.that, then yeah, look into it. into it? Have a go for it. You must
:05:50. > :05:50.
:05:50. > :05:55.have a go at it. Don't give up. It all seems pretty hopeless, doesn't
:05:55. > :06:01.it? It makes your heart sink. The only jobs available are in England
:06:01. > :06:11.or in care, looking after the elderly. Is that the future for the
:06:11. > :06:13.
:06:13. > :06:17.next generation? In the 1980s I founded the Wales quality centre. 18
:06:17. > :06:22.months ago as chairman, I asked 150 captains of industry how would they
:06:22. > :06:27.survive in the future. They said only if cad ral -- radical action
:06:27. > :06:31.were taken now. This is how one of them responded. By 2030 all the
:06:31. > :06:40.smart people would likely have left Wales leaving behind people whose
:06:40. > :06:46.main job is to support the burningoning cost of geriatric.
:06:46. > :06:49.can vouch for the fact that industrialists, certainly
:06:49. > :06:54.manufacturers are underwhelmed bit Welsh Government's performance in
:06:54. > :06:58.their regard. But let's be clear about this, they're not say saying,
:06:58. > :07:04.I'm certainly not saying, that the crisis is the fault of the present
:07:04. > :07:07.Welsh Assembly Government. That would be ridiculous. It's an
:07:07. > :07:14.historic trend, over 100 years, though we do notice that it's got a
:07:14. > :07:19.lot worse in the last 15 years. But what we are entitled to say
:07:19. > :07:24.industrialists, you and me, is that we would expect our newly elected
:07:24. > :07:30.Assembly to be all-out to fix it. I'm sometimes tempted to go into
:07:30. > :07:40.that Assembly, when the 60 are in session, and shout out Bill
:07:40. > :07:52.
:07:52. > :07:58.Clinton's message to them -" It's We are as a company very proud of
:07:58. > :08:03.the fact that we are a manufacturer. We make stuff. We take raw material,
:08:03. > :08:12.raw metal bar and we turn it into products that are used all over the
:08:12. > :08:17.world. Manufacturers like Guardian of Bridgend are the lifeblood of the
:08:17. > :08:21.Welsh economy but feel neglected by Welsh Government. I think they do
:08:22. > :08:28.pay some attention, sometimes just lip service to the manufacturing
:08:28. > :08:33.base. If you look at Germany and how quickly they came out of the 2007/8
:08:33. > :08:38.reception, they have a higher manufacturing base than we do and
:08:38. > :08:42.they came out quicker. When you look at what adds value to a national
:08:42. > :08:46.economy, be it Wales or the UK, it's taking something and turning it into
:08:46. > :08:50.something else which has a higher value. People like you have told me
:08:50. > :08:56.what we need for the future, 2030 and beyond, is a culture of
:08:56. > :09:00.innovation. If you look at the low-cost manufacturing markets, they
:09:00. > :09:05.are always continually coming up the value chain. If we're going to stay
:09:05. > :09:09.ahead and do anything which adds value to Britain plc in the global
:09:09. > :09:13.market, we've got to keep ahead of those lower costs. We will never be
:09:13. > :09:17.low cost. Britain is not a low-cost place to work. So we have to go
:09:17. > :09:27.further and further up the value chain and the only way to do that is
:09:27. > :09:35.
:09:35. > :09:40.they would need to be successful in 2030 that they don't have now. The
:09:40. > :09:46.most common answer - education. Welsh education, they said, is not
:09:46. > :09:52.fit for purpose in schools, colleges and ats the university. The
:09:52. > :09:56.16-year-olds who leave school, the NEETs, as they're called, I quote,
:09:56. > :10:02.virtually unemployable, largely illiterate, innumerate and without a
:10:02. > :10:06.vestige a work edgic. The universities, I Queiq, turning out
:10:06. > :10:09.masses of useless arts graduates going nowhere, but not the engineers
:10:09. > :10:13.and scientists that we need now and we'll need them in great abundance
:10:13. > :10:17.in the future. The colleges, who provide the skilled training for the
:10:17. > :10:23.mass of the Welsh workforce, they provide the courses that suit them,
:10:24. > :10:32.not the courses that suit industry. Of course, they're not all like
:10:32. > :10:36.that. There was a new building built here last September. Just in time
:10:36. > :10:41.for the cutting edge Biocatalyst company across the road, which
:10:41. > :10:44.develops and produces enzymes for the food industry. Last year, they
:10:44. > :10:52.were having such trouble recruiting the right people, they were thinking
:10:52. > :10:56.of moving to Germany. When people come to work here in the R & D side,
:10:56. > :11:00.they go in a laboratory and they have to do practical work. We were
:11:00. > :11:04.having graduates come here who had almost no practical skills at all, a
:11:05. > :11:09.much lower level of practical skills than say someone leaving school 20
:11:09. > :11:14.years ago. I mean, there's possibly many reasons. Some say it's health
:11:14. > :11:17.and safety in schools, so they don't do experiments, also in
:11:17. > :11:21.universities, because the numbers have increased, they don't spend as
:11:21. > :11:27.much time doing practicals. But other countries seem to get their
:11:27. > :11:33.scientists to spend more time doing practicals. Hence we have overseas
:11:33. > :11:38.scientists working here. Things are changing. The new state-of-the-art
:11:38. > :11:42.build building has enabled Stuart West to send three apprentices there
:11:42. > :11:47.to learn the skills his company needs. He has a college keen to work
:11:47. > :11:52.with him. Everyone benefits. The apprentices learn partime at the
:11:52. > :11:55.college and they're doing paid work with Biocatalyst. I understand in
:11:55. > :11:58.your case you chose an apprenticeship rather than
:11:59. > :12:03.university because you had the A-levels to get you into university,
:12:04. > :12:07.why? I think going through university you learn a lot of
:12:07. > :12:11.academic side but they don't necessarily know how to apply that.
:12:11. > :12:15.I've always wanted to learn and work at the same time. I feel that would
:12:15. > :12:19.be much more advantageous. Good. What about you Stuart, what do you
:12:19. > :12:23.think of these young chaps? We get graduates coming for interview who
:12:23. > :12:33.don't seem to have done this sort of thing, so this is perfect for us.
:12:33. > :12:39.And having the college ten minutes away is even better.
:12:39. > :12:43.The new building cost �40 million and the principal is proud of it.
:12:43. > :12:49.It's a beautiful area. Lots of light coming into the building. Welsh
:12:49. > :12:54.Government will spend �318 million this year on FE colleges which train
:12:54. > :12:59.the mass of the workforce. But only 12% of that is allocated to
:12:59. > :13:03.engineering and related courses. The principal acknowledges the problem.
:13:03. > :13:07.One of the criticisms that's been made of colleges generally is that
:13:07. > :13:10.since they're funded by the Assembly it's all about bums on seats to get
:13:10. > :13:14.the revenue, what do you say about that? Funding is very important.
:13:14. > :13:20.It's important to any institution that you work in. We have reduced
:13:20. > :13:28.the number of courses where there aren't progression opportunities for
:13:28. > :13:30.learners into employment. We've had to shift resources from one area,
:13:30. > :13:32.which may be very popular and it may be a subject that the students want
:13:32. > :13:36.to follow. But if there are no further opportunities for them, then
:13:36. > :13:46.we turn the tap off. We encourage them into new areas where there is
:13:46. > :13:51.
:13:51. > :13:57.When I began my reporting career, 50 years ago, iron, steel, coal
:13:57. > :14:02.employed hundreds of thousands. Today's industries are cleaner and
:14:02. > :14:07.greener and smaller, but can small to medium-sized industries give us
:14:07. > :14:17.the prosperity we need? Yes, if we give them the support to innovate
:14:17. > :14:19.
:14:19. > :14:23.and the supply of talent they need. We have the talent. Two Welsh
:14:23. > :14:27.youngsters recently won the UK young engineer of the year award.
:14:27. > :14:33.engineer of the year award. winners are... Wasim Miah and
:14:34. > :14:39.Jessica Jones. Absolutely amazing. Didn't think it would happen.
:14:39. > :14:47.judges said the UK's engineering industry has an incredibly bright
:14:47. > :14:53.future if these two are anything to go by. Hello, Jessica, I remember
:14:53. > :14:58.you. UK engineer of the year. What are you doing now? I'm studying
:14:58. > :15:04.astrophysics at the moment. At the university? Yes.This is the first
:15:04. > :15:07.year? Yes.Jessica's award was for a device to monitor contractions
:15:07. > :15:12.during labour. She does all her experimenting in her parents'
:15:12. > :15:16.garage. This was the prototype that won. This is an early prototype.
:15:16. > :15:21.Since then, I've developed a fibre optic version which we're applying
:15:21. > :15:25.for patent for. There are plenty of applications for. It I would like to
:15:25. > :15:29.set up a business to protect the license, to license the patent to
:15:29. > :15:36.the business and start manufacturing it. Her inspiration came from her
:15:36. > :15:42.father and a teacher at her old school Willows in Splott. I had the
:15:42. > :15:46.most fantastic and supportive teach teacher, Mr Keith Ellen. He's
:15:46. > :15:51.retired now, so they don't offer a GCSE electronics course any more.
:15:51. > :15:55.Which is a real shame. Only are you a good scientist, a good engineer,
:15:55. > :16:01.but you're also a budding entrepreneur, whether you like it or
:16:01. > :16:07.not. Where did that come from? think engineering combines very well
:16:07. > :16:11.with entrepreneurship. I had the great pleasure of seeing a design go
:16:11. > :16:14.from a concept right throw manufacturing a prototype. It gives
:16:14. > :16:19.you an entrepreneurial feeling. It makes you want to take it further.
:16:19. > :16:23.You want to see what will happen if you take that product to market. It
:16:23. > :16:28.doesn't always work, but it's, engineering encourages you to be
:16:28. > :16:32.innovative. That's the one thing that my electronics course did. It
:16:32. > :16:37.encouraged me to think outside the box. Last year, only a third of
:16:37. > :16:42.graduates from Welsh universities were in subjects which industries
:16:42. > :16:47.say are vital, science, engineering, maths and technology. Do you think
:16:47. > :16:52.there's enough emphasis in Wales on innovation and manufacturing?
:16:52. > :16:56.Definitely not. You go to a country like Germany and engineering is seen
:16:56. > :17:00.as an important profession, as important as a doctor. Over here,
:17:00. > :17:03.children aren't sure of what an engineer actually does. I don't
:17:03. > :17:08.think it's promoted properly. The stereotyping that women can't do
:17:08. > :17:14.engineering is wrong as well. It's all just a misperception and we need
:17:14. > :17:20.more young people to change that perception. Jessica has a bright
:17:20. > :17:29.future. But of 221 secondary schools in Wales, only 32 teach electronics
:17:29. > :17:35.to GCSE. How does the skills minister respond to industry's view
:17:35. > :17:38.that education in Wales across the board is simply not fit for purpose.
:17:38. > :17:42.The qualifications review will ensure that the qualifications
:17:42. > :17:46.offered to young people are revent to the needs of the local economy
:17:46. > :17:52.and more likely to help them into employment. We're introducing a new
:17:52. > :17:55.planning and funding regime for further education and school sixth
:17:55. > :18:00.forms, which will ensure there's a greater collaboration between the
:18:00. > :18:05.providers of education here and training. All of that employers will
:18:05. > :18:09.have a key role to play. Of course our apprenticeship programme.
:18:09. > :18:17.pick up a point about the funding you're providing for the colleges.
:18:17. > :18:25.Last year, that was 318 million, impressive figure. 12%, only 12% of
:18:25. > :18:30.that went to engineering or related subjects. That's a deplorable state
:18:30. > :18:35.of affairs. We have not sought to control how colleges choose to spend
:18:35. > :18:40.their money. We are certainly driving within our apprenticeship
:18:40. > :18:46.system and the qualifications system to encourage more young people,
:18:46. > :18:50.particularly girls, to per sue the stem subjects. The skills minister
:18:50. > :19:00.is right about that. We need more engineers or more politicians
:19:00. > :19:04.determined to produce more engineers. In the last 40 years,
:19:04. > :19:14.we've had two great opportunities to reverse the long economic decline
:19:14. > :19:20.
:19:20. > :19:26.and lift ourselves out of poverty. to lift Wales out of poverty and set
:19:26. > :19:32.her on the road to prosperity came in the mid-1970s with the creation
:19:32. > :19:37.of the WDA, Welsh Development Agency. It had money to spend. The
:19:37. > :19:41.greater part of its resource came from the value added to industrial
:19:41. > :19:51.and derelict land reclaimed by the land authority for Wales. It was a
:19:51. > :19:55.considerable pot of money. From the start, the agency developed a policy
:19:55. > :20:02.of inward investment attracting business, large and small, into
:20:02. > :20:09.Wales instead of concentrating on developing existing Welsh industry.
:20:10. > :20:14.This made Welsh businessmen very, very angry. Sir Roger Jones, the
:20:14. > :20:19.great innovator and entrepreneur was chairman of the WDA when it was
:20:19. > :20:22.taken indoors by the Assembly. hoping perhaps that as chairman of
:20:22. > :20:27.the Welsh Development Agency I might have been able to influence it and
:20:27. > :20:36.change it. But the mind set was that they knew exactly what they wanted
:20:36. > :20:46.to do and were content to do it. their strategy? To bring in inward
:20:46. > :20:48.
:20:48. > :20:54.companies, who would come to Wales and open factories to employ
:20:54. > :20:59.hundreds of workers. The WDA was hugely successful at that. In the
:20:59. > :21:03.80s Wales attracted more inward investment than anywhere else in
:21:03. > :21:11.Europe. 30 years later, many of them, perhaps most of them, have
:21:11. > :21:19.gone. Inward investment being the main priority successful, though it
:21:19. > :21:27.was, was in fact a tactical error. Yes, well I think it was inevitable.
:21:27. > :21:33.There's always an element of rape and pillage, if you want to call it,
:21:33. > :21:38.if you put money in a market that's new to you. They will be there for
:21:38. > :21:42.as long as the till keeps on ringing. But if it looks as if the
:21:42. > :21:49.financial tide is moving, then they'll be off. If that money,
:21:49. > :21:52.instead of being used to bring people in, had been used to
:21:52. > :21:56.modernise, expand what was already here in Welsh business, wouldn't we
:21:56. > :22:02.have something to show for it now? At the latter stages, this is what
:22:02. > :22:12.the WDA was trying to do was to support indigenous companies more
:22:12. > :22:12.
:22:12. > :22:17.and more. That WDA strategy of inward investment much of which has
:22:17. > :22:27.gone, rather than investing in Wales was a lost opportunity. Then we had
:22:27. > :22:34.another chance. Good morning. It is a very good morning in Wales.
:22:34. > :22:38.APPLAUSE Devolution was a great opportunity,
:22:38. > :22:43.at last our own Government. But Government even self-Government is
:22:43. > :22:47.not an end in itself. It's a means to an end. We gave them power. We
:22:47. > :22:52.expect them to use it. A golden opportunity to lift Wales out of
:22:52. > :22:58.poverty and set her on the path to prosperity. You would have thought
:22:58. > :23:03.that our Government would be hell bent to lift us out of it. But Welsh
:23:03. > :23:08.business people don't recognise any sense of urgency. Coming out from
:23:08. > :23:12.under Westminster, you've now got a small country, small Government
:23:12. > :23:16.which should be able to be fast and flexible, but you don't always get
:23:16. > :23:21.the impression it's like that. companies need to be quick on their
:23:21. > :23:25.feet to keep up with the forge ahead of international competition.
:23:25. > :23:29.They're still waiting for the full devolution dividend. It seems to be
:23:29. > :23:36.very slow and process focussed rather than quick and output
:23:36. > :23:41.focussed. You know that there is a drive now to make Wales plc, so to
:23:41. > :23:47.speak, fits for purpose by 2030. What chance do you think we have?
:23:47. > :23:50.think we have a reasonable chance. It is going to need significant mind
:23:50. > :23:53.set changes in various areas, probably the chief of which is
:23:53. > :23:58.within Government. We are a small company. We're in the middle of
:23:58. > :24:04.nowhere in Wales, but we have carved out a niche for ourselves in a world
:24:04. > :24:07.market by looking outwards. Wales as a whole needs to stop looking
:24:07. > :24:11.inwards quite as much as it does and start looking outwards. If that
:24:11. > :24:16.happens, yes, I think there's every chance of making it.
:24:16. > :24:21.If that is to happen, Welsh industry is entitled to Government support
:24:21. > :24:26.delivered quickly. On one occasion, the politicians and civil servants
:24:27. > :24:32.demonstrated that they can do just that. In 2008, when the world fell
:24:32. > :24:38.into recession, they put together a training scheme, Proact, which
:24:38. > :24:43.helped companies avoid mass redundancies. I would say it
:24:43. > :24:49.preserved about 10,000 jobs. Zblt Government acted quickly? Very
:24:49. > :24:56.decisively. So much so that really the rules were invented almost after
:24:56. > :25:00.the scheme had started. There's a play waiting for Goddo. Two chaps
:25:00. > :25:09.are on stage waiting and waiting and nothing happens. Waiting for Edwina
:25:09. > :25:14.is even worse. I would disgree with that. Mrs Hart in particular is
:25:14. > :25:19.always ready to see you. Her desk is clear. You don't what -- have to
:25:19. > :25:25.wait long for a decision. Goes to committee then, it can take not
:25:25. > :25:28.months but years to get a decision. Not in this sector. I have no
:25:28. > :25:32.criticism of ministers understand of how the sector works and the desire
:25:32. > :25:37.to support it. They can get it right when they try. Sir Roger Jones
:25:37. > :25:41.thinks they need a killure change, a different mind set. I think they're
:25:41. > :25:47.sincere people. They want to do better, but the world is divided
:25:47. > :25:50.into two groups. You have the wealth creators and the destroyers. Alas,
:25:50. > :25:54.the public sector tends to destroy our wealth. It's the private sector
:25:54. > :26:00.that creates it. It's just that there's a lack of understanding of
:26:00. > :26:05.how wealth gets created. In the meantime, the poverty gap
:26:05. > :26:11.grows and so does voter apathy. What have they been doing with their
:26:11. > :26:14.time? The Welsh AssemblyIs not prepared to set targets about
:26:14. > :26:21.closing the gap because you're afraid you won't. Can't you plan the
:26:21. > :26:25.economy? Look, we cannot control the economy. I don't want to be just
:26:25. > :26:29.repeating myself, but we are working very hard in terms of raising skill
:26:29. > :26:34.levels, for example. You should plan and you're not. You've just told me,
:26:34. > :26:38.we can't plan. No, what I'm saying... You're saying that we
:26:38. > :26:42.should plan to improve GDP by a certain amount a year. I think with
:26:42. > :26:45.the current economic situation that we're under, as is most of the
:26:45. > :26:50.western world, it's very difficult and would be a hostage to fortune if
:26:50. > :26:53.we were to say we will have A, B and C in a few years. You ask why the
:26:53. > :26:57.rest of the world is doing better than we are? Our responsibilities
:26:57. > :27:01.are here. We're certainly looking at other areas of the world. In terms
:27:01. > :27:11.of our resources we are planning and working well with industry. That is
:27:11. > :27:15.my experience. 2030 offers one last chance to rid
:27:15. > :27:22.ourselves of the poverty which has defined us and degraded us for a
:27:22. > :27:28.century. In my opinion, for what it's worth, Wales has the potential
:27:28. > :27:34.to be a successful contender in 2030. The next 20 years will be
:27:34. > :27:40.critical. We will need Jessica with her brilliant inventions, her dog
:27:40. > :27:46.determination of Stuart West's apprentices. Judith with her passion
:27:46. > :27:50.for her students, Ian Maxted with his inventive miebd -- inventive
:27:50. > :27:55.minds. Most of all we will need the leadership of the Welsh Assembly
:27:55. > :27:59.Government. If they can energise the nation, make us feel it's a national
:27:59. > :28:04.crusade, if they can galvanise education, give it an electric
:28:05. > :28:08.shock, if they can extreme line the laborious processes, smarten up the
:28:08. > :28:14.civil servants, if they can facilitate industry, find out what
:28:14. > :28:18.it wants and make it happen, fund it where necessary, if they do all
:28:18. > :28:23.this, Wales will reach the promised land of prosperity and devolution
:28:23. > :28:29.will be the best thing that's happened to Wales in 150 years. But
:28:29. > :28:33.if they don't, if they say it's not our remit, our hands are tied, we
:28:33. > :28:39.have other priorities, if they play party politics, then I would say to
:28:39. > :28:45.each of those 60 Assmebly Members - stand down, make way for someone
:28:45. > :28:50.who's prepared to try. I would say to all of them collectively what