:00:09. > :00:17.A motive was greed and their plan was simple - to flood South Wales
:00:18. > :00:23.with drugs. That's a carrier bag containing ?14,740. A gang organised
:00:24. > :00:27.from inside prison. We're talking about people supplying Class A drugs
:00:28. > :00:30.to people on the streets of Gwent. Leaders were serving inmates. I knew
:00:31. > :00:34.about the coindication, I didn't know about any guns. They were
:00:35. > :00:38.caught by an undercover police operation. He's got something you
:00:39. > :00:44.can clearly see in his hand. We're going to watch that discreetly go
:00:45. > :00:50.into the red prison van. So how was this ever possible? And are open
:00:51. > :00:54.prisons just too open to abuse? What's their attitude towards that
:00:55. > :00:59.regime. Everyone sees it as a soft touch. Some prisoners will never be
:01:00. > :01:07.suitable to open conditions, no matter how long they serve in
:01:08. > :01:23.prison. They're big players. Roberts is a
:01:24. > :01:26.career criminal who had no intention of changing his ways. The staff
:01:27. > :01:30.can't deal with those people. That's where the system is crashing and
:01:31. > :01:35.burning. They thought they were under the radar, because they were
:01:36. > :01:39.technically in prison still. Locked up and driven away from Swansea
:01:40. > :01:44.Crown Court, the drugs gang sentenced to a total of more than 30
:01:45. > :01:48.years in prison. They were caught in a special police undercover
:01:49. > :01:53.operation involving teams from the regional organised crime squad for
:01:54. > :01:58.South Wales, Tarian, and the National Crime Agency. The gang
:01:59. > :02:06.leader, Matthew Roberts, was a serving prisoner in an open prison,
:02:07. > :02:11.organising a network outside. The gang rounded up, operation Pierre
:02:12. > :02:16.has been a success but it has shone a spotlight on awkward questions,
:02:17. > :02:24.not least: How is it possible to organise a drugs network across
:02:25. > :02:27.South Wales from inside prison? It was clear from the beginning that
:02:28. > :02:31.Roberts had become a significant threat to Wales in the provision of
:02:32. > :02:35.Class A and Class B drugs. We had to work quickly and smartly and utilise
:02:36. > :02:48.our techniques and capabilities to capture him in the act. Matthew
:02:49. > :02:51.Roberts is from Maesteg. He's described as being Intel gent and a
:02:52. > :02:56.talented cricket player. By the age of 20 he was in trouble for
:02:57. > :03:02.possession of cannabis in. 2008 he was jailed for 15 years for heading
:03:03. > :03:09.a drug gang, supplying cocaine, manufacture drone and amphetamines.
:03:10. > :03:14.These are criminals that are exploiting people. Sometimes people
:03:15. > :03:20.underestimate what serious and organised crime has on their line.
:03:21. > :03:24.Heads up Tarian. Catching Roberts and his gang was part of the mission
:03:25. > :03:30.to bring down organised crime. It's estimated it's cost the UK 50
:03:31. > :03:34.billion a year. That's huge. What we do when we look at a criminal
:03:35. > :03:46.network is we look at the whole network. So in operation Pierre,
:03:47. > :03:53.we've take be out -- taken out their right-hand men and the couriers. We
:03:54. > :03:57.take out the whole network. In January 2012, Roberts was a serving
:03:58. > :04:05.prisoner at a secure prison, where he shared a cell with another drugs
:04:06. > :04:10.dealer, Damien Ramsey. Ramsey was freed later that year, but in
:04:11. > :04:13.October, he visited his friend Roberts, who had been assessed as
:04:14. > :04:33.suitable for an open prison. In November 2012, Roberts was moved
:04:34. > :04:36.here to Prescoed in Monmouthshire. He appeared to be a model prisoner.
:04:37. > :04:42.He did a course in management and was even a trainer in the gym. He
:04:43. > :04:51.was rewarded with the trusted position of driving the prison van.
:04:52. > :04:56.But unknown to Roberts, he was now under surveillance by police and the
:04:57. > :04:59.National Crime Agency. There was intelligence held by other agencies
:05:00. > :05:05.that pointed towards Roberts and we start to build up a picture. Then,
:05:06. > :05:09.it's about proving what's actually happening and sorting out what is
:05:10. > :05:13.the hierarchy, how does that organisation work, and then, what
:05:14. > :05:20.are the opportunities for actually bringing them to justice and getting
:05:21. > :05:23.the evidence that we need? One of the undercover team told us what
:05:24. > :05:30.they observed as Roberts, the inmate, was outside prison. Matthew
:05:31. > :05:33.Roberts, he's on the left with the black jacket. On this occasion, he
:05:34. > :05:37.was working for a garage. Essentially, what he would have to
:05:38. > :05:41.do would be at the direction of the garage owner. From the times that we
:05:42. > :05:46.were following him, we didn't really see him doing a great deal of work
:05:47. > :05:49.for his employer. He used the van as if it was his own transport to
:05:50. > :05:55.conduct his drug-dealing activity. This is the lowest level. It's an
:05:56. > :06:02.open prison with day release. It's part of the rehabilitation that that
:06:03. > :06:06.trust is there to go out and do the work the prison believes they're
:06:07. > :06:13.doing. There wasn't any tag process in respect of Roberts. On January
:06:14. > :06:18.10, 2013, Roberts was given four days special leave. He was supposed
:06:19. > :06:22.to be staying with his father, but he had other ideas. His old
:06:23. > :06:30.cellmate, Damien Ramsey, came to Prescoed and picked him up. Here's
:06:31. > :06:34.Matthew Roberts. He has a carrier bag in his hand. It's a Sunday. He's
:06:35. > :06:40.been in the shopping centre, where he's bought a mobile phone. Now,
:06:41. > :06:45.part of his conditions of being on temporary license is that he's not
:06:46. > :06:49.allowed to have more than one mobile telephone. He's clearly breaching
:06:50. > :06:53.the terms of his temporary release on this particular day. He's in the
:06:54. > :06:58.process of getting all the different bits he needs together in order to
:06:59. > :07:06.carry on with his drug dealing enterprise. The following day,
:07:07. > :07:10.Roberts drove to Port Talbot in Ramsey's car to meet another member
:07:11. > :07:16.of the gang working on the outside. Matthew Pugh was supplying the town
:07:17. > :07:21.with cocaine and amphetamines. Roberts had been given four days of
:07:22. > :07:26.leave, four days in which to do whatever he wanted. Four days to
:07:27. > :07:33.meet two known drug dealers before he returned to Prescoed. The ease
:07:34. > :07:37.with which Roberts was able to run a drugs gang from Prescoed has raised
:07:38. > :07:45.questions about the regime at the jail. What kind of prisoners are in
:07:46. > :07:49.there? All sorts. Violence, sex offenders, drug offenders, all
:07:50. > :07:56.sorts. A former prisoner of Prescoed told me what it's like there.
:07:57. > :08:01.There's not a fence. There's all house blocks. You all have your own
:08:02. > :08:06.room with your own key. Everyone sees it as a soft touch. That's what
:08:07. > :08:10.it is. As long as you keep out of the limelight they won't bother you.
:08:11. > :08:14.Dave Joseph now helps ex-offenders. Two years ago he was in Prescoed
:08:15. > :08:20.after being jailed for growing cannabis. He told me many prisoners
:08:21. > :08:23.have jobs outside. If you're working out, you leave the prison first
:08:24. > :08:27.thing in the morning. You don't come back until 7pm. Some come back
:08:28. > :08:34.later. Depends how far you have to travel as well. Do the prisoners get
:08:35. > :08:40.in and out? Minibus actually. Some have their own cars. The rest is all
:08:41. > :08:44.minibus, that type of thing. Prescoed was given a good report in
:08:45. > :08:49.the latest inspection by the Chief Inspector of prisons. But more than
:08:50. > :08:54.half of the prisoners surveyed there said it was easy to get illegal
:08:55. > :09:02.drugs inside. .ing in you want is there, whatever it is. Anything you
:09:03. > :09:07.shouldn't have you could get. As? Anything - drugs, drink, whatever.
:09:08. > :09:13.If you have money, some way to pay, you can get it, simple. A Prison
:09:14. > :09:17.Service spokesman said they take the use of illegal substances extremely
:09:18. > :09:23.seriously and use a range of measures to find them. Detectives
:09:24. > :09:27.kept ape close eye on Matthew Roberts' gang in Port Talbot. They
:09:28. > :09:36.watched as Matthew Pugh took a delivery. We've got a white van
:09:37. > :09:45.that's turned up. It's just parking outside an address. There, red coat,
:09:46. > :09:55.that's Jamie Hunt. This is Matthew Pugh. That barrel there, that
:09:56. > :10:00.contains something called Bens cane. That's something that's really --
:10:01. > :10:04.benzocaine. That's commonly used as a cutting agent, you can get more
:10:05. > :10:09.drugs for your money if you mix it with a cutting agent, which
:10:10. > :10:15.Muslimics the effects of what the drug can do to you. Hunt and Pugh
:10:16. > :10:19.answered to Roberts who was able to control drugs like mephedrone and
:10:20. > :10:23.cocaine coming into South Wales. How was he able to Mastermind this
:10:24. > :10:33.conspiracy from inside an open prison? The role of open prisons was
:10:34. > :10:37.discussed last week at the annual conference of the Prison Officers'
:10:38. > :10:41.Association. Open prisons play a fundamental, key role in the prison
:10:42. > :10:45.system. Without open prisons within the criminal justice system, the
:10:46. > :10:50.system would simply fail. It would crash and burn, because open prisons
:10:51. > :10:53.are the test for prisoners who are serving extremely long sentences and
:10:54. > :10:58.who have been in prison a long time to get them back into society and
:10:59. > :11:04.integrate them into society safely and securely. The suitability of
:11:05. > :11:09.open prisons for some inmates was thrust into the limelight by the
:11:10. > :11:13.skull cracker case. He must be armed that guy. That's the geezer they're
:11:14. > :11:17.looking for, mum. Yeah! He was caught after five days on the run,
:11:18. > :11:21.after absconding from an open prison in Kent. The Ministry of Justice is
:11:22. > :11:26.investigating. It comes just three months after it published a review
:11:27. > :11:30.into prisoners being allowed out on day release from open prisons. Some
:11:31. > :11:33.prisoners will never, ever be suitable to open conditions, no
:11:34. > :11:36.matter how long they serve in prison. Now that could be someone
:11:37. > :11:39.serving six months or somebody serving a life sentence. The reason
:11:40. > :11:43.that I say that some people will never be, as soon as you put them on
:11:44. > :11:48.open conditions, they will immediately walk out or go back to
:11:49. > :11:52.criminal activities. Despite the skull cracker case and the drugs
:11:53. > :11:55.gang we've highlighted, the Chief Constable of Gwent police said the
:11:56. > :12:00.authorities get it right most of the time at open prisons, like press
:12:01. > :12:04.pre, -- Prescoed, which is on his patch. We will get occasions where
:12:05. > :12:08.people are out of prison where they shouldn't be. But I think we have to
:12:09. > :12:11.look at the circumstances on those. Of course, people are going to get
:12:12. > :12:15.frustrated by those individual cases. There's hundreds, if not
:12:16. > :12:19.thousands of people who are released, which actually are
:12:20. > :12:22.rehabilitated and are able to assimilate back into our
:12:23. > :12:26.communities. Let's focus on what we're talking about - drugs on our
:12:27. > :12:29.streets. Again, I have very little sympathies for people who want to do
:12:30. > :12:38.that. Should they be behind bars? Yes, very often they should. Back
:12:39. > :12:43.with the surveillance team and this time, Roberts is bugged making a
:12:44. > :12:49.call to another drug dealer. I tell you why you needed to get there,
:12:50. > :12:54.this M-Kat... Roberts is phoning this man, Richard Saltmarsh. He's in
:12:55. > :12:58.a secure, closed prison in the Midlands, serving 26 years for
:12:59. > :13:02.smuggling guns and conspiracy to supply cocaine. Saltmarsh was able
:13:03. > :13:09.to use three mobile phones while he was inside. I've got a customer
:13:10. > :13:16.ready. Well, he's out there. Because I'm getting like 15, 20. Maybe a
:13:17. > :13:22.couple of days. M-Kat is mephedrone. Roberts is telling Saltmarsh he can
:13:23. > :13:32.get 15 to 20 kilograms of the drugs. Yes I can get 14 grams no problem.
:13:33. > :13:37.Get them salt Salt. -- Salt. I have people crying for it. We can move
:13:38. > :13:40.this easily enough. I tell you what else, I have four-and-a-half posh
:13:41. > :13:46.round two, if you can do anything with that. As well as offering to
:13:47. > :13:53.sell Saltmarsh M-Kat, he is asking if he wants posh, or cocaine. This
:13:54. > :13:57.bugged call would prove to be gold dust to detectives when they put
:13:58. > :14:03.their case together to show a drugs conspiracy. The importance of this
:14:04. > :14:07.conversation, it truly reflects the level at which Matthew Roberts was
:14:08. > :14:12.operating, because it painted the true level, we're talking 15, 20
:14:13. > :14:16.kilos, so this is a significant amount of drugs, which were
:14:17. > :14:22.destined, we believe, for the South Wales area. Roberts and Saltmarsh
:14:23. > :14:27.were the leaders behind the gang who were trying to flood South Wales
:14:28. > :14:33.with drugs, most live cocaine and mephedrone. Just to confirm, this is
:14:34. > :14:36.a strike, yes? Strike. Strike. Years ago, we reported on the massive
:14:37. > :14:41.problems mephedrone was causing on the streets of Wales. At the same
:14:42. > :14:44.time that Roberts' gang was operating. It's still having an
:14:45. > :14:50.impact on the streets of Wales today. I snorted it on a few
:14:51. > :14:58.occasions and it's very, best way to put it, is a more-ish drug. Rob has
:14:59. > :15:02.used drugs for 18 years. He first started using mephedrone five years
:15:03. > :15:05.ago when it was still legal to do so. Once you take it, you crave the
:15:06. > :15:09.high straight away. You start off and think just a couple of lines.
:15:10. > :15:13.Before you know it, you've sniffed line after line. You don't know what
:15:14. > :15:18.you're doing. People are walking around like zombies come the end of
:15:19. > :15:21.the weekend. Since mephedrone became illegal four years ago, the police
:15:22. > :15:25.have been targeting dealers. Rob says it's still widely available.
:15:26. > :15:30.It's rife. It's everywhere in Swansea. It's probably one of the
:15:31. > :15:33.easiest drugs to get hold of. People are doing copious amounts of it.
:15:34. > :15:38.They're not just taking small amounts. They're taking up to
:15:39. > :15:45.quarter of an ounce per person, which is a massive amount. Rob is
:15:46. > :15:50.now in recovery and getting support from projects like this one, Chance
:15:51. > :15:54.To Grow, in Llanelli. Seeing people going from sniffing it, that wasn't
:15:55. > :15:59.strong enough. They were going down to start injecting it then. I know
:16:00. > :16:04.somebody who personally had it injected into their neck, which
:16:05. > :16:08.paralysed them from the neck down. It's devastating what I've seen so
:16:09. > :16:13.many of my friends going through with it. The police say it's not
:16:14. > :16:17.drug users they go after, it's the main dealers they want. How serious
:16:18. > :16:22.were the drugs they were distributing in terms of the class
:16:23. > :16:29.and the impact they have on society? Very serious. Cocaine causes massive
:16:30. > :16:36.problems in the community as does amphetamines and mephedrone. We're
:16:37. > :16:40.not trying to go after people who get addicted to drugs. These people
:16:41. > :16:43.aren't addicted to drugs. They are just making money out this afternoon
:16:44. > :16:52.misery and that exploitation. That's what we're trying to tackle. Back in
:16:53. > :16:57.Port Talbot, Pugh is one of the town's main drug dealers. Buff he's
:16:58. > :17:01.just run out of luck. The undercover police officer says it's time for
:17:02. > :17:07.them to move in. They arrest Pugh and the man who's been making
:17:08. > :17:12.deliveries to him -- to him, Jamie Hunt. There's a balancing act, do we
:17:13. > :17:16.let certain activities continue, but in doing so what harm could that
:17:17. > :17:21.have on the community? At this point, based on the evidence that we
:17:22. > :17:25.had, and the actions of these particular pair on this date, we
:17:26. > :17:29.made the decision today was the day to arrest them. Enter the property
:17:30. > :17:33.and video what they find. The evidence they discover will help to
:17:34. > :17:40.convict the gang. That's a carrier bag on the bottom of the stairs
:17:41. > :17:45.containing bundles of ?20 notes. In total that was ?14,740. We believe
:17:46. > :17:53.that was destined to buy more controlled drugs. There you are,
:17:54. > :17:57.there's a package of white powder. That's three-and-a-half kilos of
:17:58. > :18:03.amphetamine. Now that's normally sold per gram. This could be made up
:18:04. > :18:11.to make a much larger amount and the street value of it could achieve
:18:12. > :18:17.just over ?150,000. Pugh and Hunt are questioned at Swansea central
:18:18. > :18:20.police station. Tell us the circumstances surrounding it then.
:18:21. > :18:28.Why you? Why did they ring you? Why did they pick you? Probably because
:18:29. > :18:42.they knew I was stupid enough to do it. I needed the money. I needed the
:18:43. > :18:46.money. Sorry, you said you needed the money? It was for money. That's
:18:47. > :18:53.the reason I did it, for money. How much money? I think I got 100 or 150
:18:54. > :18:59.quid or something like that. It's stupid. Pugh has less to say. We've
:19:00. > :19:03.asked you - are you involved in the supply of controlled drugs and I
:19:04. > :19:08.will ask you that question. Are you involved directly in the supply of
:19:09. > :19:13.controlled drugs? What we're saying is that we've got what looks like a
:19:14. > :19:23.neat picture here. If we're wrong, then tell us we're wrong.
:19:24. > :19:29.Police recovered Pugh's mobile phone and it provides them with more
:19:30. > :19:35.information. It shows calls made by Pugh to Roberts' right-hand man
:19:36. > :19:39.Damien Ramsey. The police know that Ramsey is in contact with Roberts
:19:40. > :19:48.inside Prescoed prison. The police are closing in on the gang. Despite
:19:49. > :19:53.these two arrests, Roberts doesn't stop. Here, he's driving the prison
:19:54. > :19:56.van to Cwmbran train station to meet another member of the gang. This is
:19:57. > :20:01.Colin Beck. He's from the West Midlands area. You can see Matthew
:20:02. > :20:05.Roberts is in the drivers seat of the red transit van. This is the
:20:06. > :20:09.prison van. He's got something you can clearly see in his hand. We're
:20:10. > :20:14.going to watch that discreetly go into the red van to Matthew Roberts.
:20:15. > :20:19.There we are. The hand goes into the van by Colin Beck. At that point,
:20:20. > :20:25.Colin Beck has dropped into the lap of Matthew Roberts the package.
:20:26. > :20:32.Within that pot is a sample, a tester, of the larger commodity to
:20:33. > :20:37.come and we say that white powder is mephedrone. The purpose of that
:20:38. > :20:41.mobile phone call there was to say that your man's here and I've had
:20:42. > :20:46.the sample and I'll be in touch about what the next steps are going
:20:47. > :20:52.to be. In Matthew Roberts' hand he's trying to discreetly now open up the
:20:53. > :20:56.pill pot to look at the contents. He's basically looked at the
:20:57. > :21:06.contents of that pot and he can see the powder is in there.
:21:07. > :21:13.Three weeks later, Roberts is driving the van back along this
:21:14. > :21:20.country lane towards Prescoed prison. He throes his mobile phone
:21:21. > :21:26.out of the window. What he doesn't know is that an undercover police
:21:27. > :21:30.officer has spotted him doing it. Roberts' mobile phone was later
:21:31. > :21:36.recovered from along this section of the lane. We understand this to be a
:21:37. > :21:41.favourite spot used by prisoners to dump contraband such as mobile
:21:42. > :21:45.phones. And that they leave markers along the side of the lane and in
:21:46. > :21:54.the hedge row so that they can come back and find what they've dumped
:21:55. > :21:58.later. The evidence against Roberts is mounting now and the prison
:21:59. > :22:04.authorities decide to withdraw his privileges and move him it a closed,
:22:05. > :22:08.secure jail. Roberts abused the trust in him at Prescoed. What
:22:09. > :22:13.checks are carried out when prisoners are placed in an open
:22:14. > :22:17.jail? It's claimed risk assessments don't include the likelihood of
:22:18. > :22:21.re-offending in open prisons. They consider the likelihood of how the
:22:22. > :22:24.person has behaved since he was sentenced, how he's behaved in
:22:25. > :22:29.closed conditions and training conditions. And they then believe
:22:30. > :22:34.the assessment is about how does he settle in an open prison and how
:22:35. > :22:37.will he interact with society when released on temporary license.
:22:38. > :22:42.There's concern that secure jails are so full, open prisons are being
:22:43. > :22:45.used for inmates who aren't really suitable for such conditions.
:22:46. > :22:50.Dangerous prisoners, prisoners who are not suitable, right, who may
:22:51. > :22:54.have ticked all the boxes, but they're being sent to an open prison
:22:55. > :22:59.far too early in their sentence. We're seeing criminal activities,
:23:00. > :23:03.we're seeing absconds and failures on temporary release on license. As
:23:04. > :23:09.a result, the public are being put at risk. That is simply
:23:10. > :23:13.unacceptable. Earlier this year, concerns about prisoners on
:23:14. > :23:16.sconeding from Prescoed were raised when convicted killer, Christopher
:23:17. > :23:23.Woodward, went on the run for a month. Mr Speaker, residents in
:23:24. > :23:26.Monmouthshire were concerned when a man convicted of manslaughter
:23:27. > :23:31.absconded from Prescoed open prison. Would the minister ask officials to
:23:32. > :23:34.look into the risk assessments being used before prisoners are
:23:35. > :23:39.transferred into Prescoed to ensure they are suitably rigorous? We
:23:40. > :23:44.expect the risk assessments in all these cases are rigorous. I will of
:23:45. > :23:48.course look into it and find out what has happened. We asked the
:23:49. > :23:54.minister for an interview, but he declined. He did tell us that in the
:23:55. > :23:59.future prisoners on day release will be tagged and more rightly risk
:24:00. > :24:04.assessed. Are you frustrated sometimes that there is this policy
:24:05. > :24:07.about introducing lifers back into society and doing that through the
:24:08. > :24:11.open prison route? Does that work from your point of view? I think
:24:12. > :24:16.very much that individuals are individuals and for one person it
:24:17. > :24:20.might not work, and for another it might. It does us no good at all
:24:21. > :24:25.just putting people behind bars and leaving them there forever, if the
:24:26. > :24:29.sentence they've had means that they can be rehabilitated and brought
:24:30. > :24:31.back into the community and be a useful person. In these
:24:32. > :24:35.circumstances that we're talking about today, we're talking about
:24:36. > :24:39.people supplying Class A drugs to people on the streets of Gwent. I
:24:40. > :24:45.have much less sympathy with those individuals. Time is up for Roberts'
:24:46. > :24:50.trusted Lieutenant Ramsey. He's now arrested and interviewed by police.
:24:51. > :24:55.You, I think, provided not only the Class A controlled drugs, but you
:24:56. > :25:01.have also, with your courier, provided the cutting agent. What do
:25:02. > :25:08.you say about that? Are we wrong? Was Hunt acting alone? If he was,
:25:09. > :25:14.why is he communicating with you so often on significant days? Police
:25:15. > :25:17.will want to know what Ramsey has been doing with the money he's made
:25:18. > :25:22.from drugs. Previously he's been ordered by the courts to sell a
:25:23. > :25:28.yacht, three flats, a hot tub and a sauna, seized by detectives who went
:25:29. > :25:33.after his drugs money. Next, gun runner and drug dealer Richard
:25:34. > :25:41.Saltmarsh is in the police sights. This is the police audio interview.
:25:42. > :25:44.As I said to you, I believe you and Roberts were in the top tier of this
:25:45. > :25:48.group. You were utilising people on the outside. You're actually saying,
:25:49. > :25:54.so this is what the police are saying is that what, I'm supplying
:25:55. > :25:59.Roberts? No, you were facilitating through your contacts with people on
:26:00. > :26:04.the outside the supply of controlled drugs into South Wales. Now it's the
:26:05. > :26:10.turn of Colin Beck, the drugs courier sent by Saltmarsh to make
:26:11. > :26:17.the drop at Cwmbran station. Tell me about Richard Saltmarsh. Nice guy.
:26:18. > :26:27.Very pleasant. Mr Saltmarsh is currently serving 26 years in
:26:28. > :26:31.prison. Right. For importing 39 mm harned guns and 14,000 rounds ever
:26:32. > :26:35.ammunition together with a kilo of cocaine. I knew about the cocaine. I
:26:36. > :26:40.didn't know about any guns. When you say he's a nice guy, pleasant...
:26:41. > :26:45.He's always been pleasant enough with me. Finally, Roberts is
:26:46. > :26:53.arrested in prison on June 15th, 2013. We're not picturing you as a
:26:54. > :26:59.grand dealer. We're picturing you as the head of an organised crime group
:27:00. > :27:02.and multiy kilo dealer. The conversations support where we are
:27:03. > :27:09.picturing you. You are talking kilos. You are up there, top of the
:27:10. > :27:19.tree. In total, the gang were jailed for more than 36 years. Gang leader
:27:20. > :27:23.Matthew Roberts returned to prison for an additional eight years. If he
:27:24. > :27:27.hadn't been caught, he would have been freed from Prescoed open jail
:27:28. > :27:32.next year. Roberts is a career criminal, who
:27:33. > :27:36.had absolutely no intention of changing his ways. There was only
:27:37. > :27:42.one thing he was going to do when he left prison, that was to carry on
:27:43. > :27:46.offending. Are there lessons to be learned from this? There's lessons
:27:47. > :27:50.about how ongoing we share our intelligence across agencies, which
:27:51. > :27:54.we are getting better at. There are lessons around lifetime management,
:27:55. > :28:00.which mean not taking the focus off when people do go into prison. I had
:28:01. > :28:05.a good relationship with the prison governor of Prescoed through this
:28:06. > :28:08.operation and he assisted us in gathering evidence we needed. That
:28:09. > :28:12.needs to continue and it will. We need to make prison a really hostile
:28:13. > :28:18.place and a disruptive place for this sort of crime. And any kind of
:28:19. > :28:23.crime. The recent skull cracker case shows the system doesn't always
:28:24. > :28:28.work. And last night, two more prisoners on sconeded from an open
:28:29. > :28:32.jail in South Yorkshire. This afternoon, the Justice Secretary
:28:33. > :28:36.announced that in future, prisoners will not be allowed to go to open
:28:37. > :28:40.prison if they've absconded before. But is that enough? The risk
:28:41. > :28:44.assessments, when a prisoner is in the open estate is too late. That's
:28:45. > :28:49.where the failure is already occurring. That's when a prisoners
:28:50. > :28:53.may go underground and be an ideal prisoner within a prison setting,
:28:54. > :28:57.but they're running organised crime from the open prison estate. My
:28:58. > :29:01.message to the prisons minister is work with the POA, listen to their
:29:02. > :29:05.concerns and we guarantee you one thing - open prisons will have a
:29:06. > :29:09.better record than they have over the last five years. Isn't the end
:29:10. > :29:12.of the story for Matthew Roberts and his gang, now the police will go
:29:13. > :29:18.after them where it hurts most - in the pocket.