:00:00. > :00:15.here, good night. Six years ago he came to Wales and told us we were
:00:16. > :00:20.too easy on benefit claimants. Public officials should stop
:00:21. > :00:27.coddling people! That people needed to get off
:00:28. > :00:31.welfare and get back to work. People in the US don't have this
:00:32. > :00:34.sense of entitlement. We've brought him back from Dallas,
:00:35. > :00:49.Texas to find out if anyone listened.
:00:50. > :00:53.Dr Merrill Matthews is a conservative and a leading
:00:54. > :00:57.commentator on social affairs. He's also a big believer in the work
:00:58. > :01:03.ethic. I'm Merrill Matthews and I'm from
:01:04. > :01:07.Texas. We believe that people should be able to pull themselves up by
:01:08. > :01:11.their own bootstraps. Government should give people a hand up not a
:01:12. > :01:15.hand out. Since he was last here six years ago
:01:16. > :01:20.benefits have been cut, capped, and streamlined. The Coalition
:01:21. > :01:23.Government has introduced the Work Programme which aims to get people
:01:24. > :01:27.who have been unemployed for a long time into jobs.
:01:28. > :01:31.I've heard the UK has taken some good steps on welfare reform and I'm
:01:32. > :01:39.back in Wales to see how that's working.
:01:40. > :01:43.Six years ago when Merrill met Paul Peck at his home in Merthyr he'd
:01:44. > :01:53.already been on benefits for 20 years.
:01:54. > :01:59.Does that make you depressed? I am not depressed.
:02:00. > :02:08.Today, not much has changed. Paul is 52 and he hasn't worked
:02:09. > :02:12.since he was 26. He had a heart murmur and then he lost a leg eight
:02:13. > :02:17.years ago. What Labour calls the bedroom tax - and other changes in
:02:18. > :02:22.benefits - have left him worse off. I disagree with the bedroom tax.
:02:23. > :02:39.They've taken ?30 a fortnight off me, ?15 a week.
:02:40. > :02:43.Now you've had your benefits cut but you're still getting by? If they cut
:02:44. > :02:45.them more, would you go look for a job?
:02:46. > :03:02.Yes, I'd be fighting more to get work.
:03:03. > :03:07.Yes. I would think of getting work. I do get bored in the House.
:03:08. > :03:15.But apparently not bored enough to go out and struggle to get a job!
:03:16. > :03:20.Merthyr was once known as the sick note capital of Britain. Merrill
:03:21. > :03:27.wanted to know if Paul's estate, the Gurnos, has any job opportunities.
:03:28. > :03:42.Would you allow him to volunteer to get some skills? Yes. Was this hard
:03:43. > :03:58.to find? No. Are you looking for a job? Yes.
:03:59. > :04:01.So does Merrill think Paul has been looking hard enough for work during
:04:02. > :04:04.his 26 years on benefits. You've been 20 years on benefits,
:04:05. > :04:10.missing a leg, but you still were healthy.
:04:11. > :04:13.Yes, but no jobs out there. But then you say you haven't really
:04:14. > :04:22.looked for a job. No.
:04:23. > :04:25.Paul is clearly a personable and likeable person and has some real
:04:26. > :04:40.health challenges but I don't think he is trying hard enough to get a
:04:41. > :04:47.job. He says people don't want him, but he also admits he hasn't applied
:04:48. > :04:51.for any jobs. This is where the problem lies. When the Government
:04:52. > :04:54.makes it a little too easy for a person to be on benefits, then we
:04:55. > :04:57.shouldn't be surprised if a lot of people are simply satisfied with
:04:58. > :05:00.staying on benefits. The Government says it is getting
:05:01. > :05:03.tougher. It is cutting benefits, and more than a million sanctions were
:05:04. > :05:06.issued last year - that is withholding benefit from claimants
:05:07. > :05:16.who, allegedly, weren't looking hard enough for work.
:05:17. > :05:21.When you can you should work, because welfare should be a second
:05:22. > :05:23.chance and not a way of life. In the US, both Democrats and
:05:24. > :05:26.conservatives like Merrill have supported radical welfare reforms
:05:27. > :05:30.which mean that if people on benefits can't find a job the
:05:31. > :05:38.Government will find one for them - like it or not.
:05:39. > :05:40.It's lunchtime on the Gurnos and Merrill is sampling the local
:05:41. > :05:50.cuisine. They try to do fish 'n' chips in
:05:51. > :05:59.Texas. They just cannot do it. And he has one more question about
:06:00. > :06:04.the local jobs situation. Our women the only ones who want to apply
:06:05. > :06:08.here? I have jobs but it's always the
:06:09. > :06:21.women who apply for them, never the men. Only a couple of meals have
:06:22. > :06:27.applied. Why is that. People see the arm looking for jobs. You are seeing
:06:28. > :06:42.they do not even apply. They do not even come here and ask. How are
:06:43. > :06:49.you? Good. Have you ever had a cowboy hats? No.
:06:50. > :06:54.Employment in Merthyr's gone up by 300 since Merrill was last in town.
:06:55. > :07:10.A few of those jobs have been created at this metals company.
:07:11. > :07:18.We are expanding. We are employing 24 people and within 12 months' time
:07:19. > :07:28.we will imply another 12 people. -- employee. I'm having trouble getting
:07:29. > :07:32.welders. Phil Corke, the boss, has a problem
:07:33. > :07:35.finding enough skilled workers. One youngster he's taken on is Matthew,
:07:36. > :07:40.who'd been unemployed since leaving school.
:07:41. > :07:48.In the six months what was that like?
:07:49. > :07:54.I was desperate. I was trying jobs I didn't want to go for. Six months is
:07:55. > :08:05.a long time to be sitting on your backside doing nothing.
:08:06. > :08:15.How does it feel to have a job now? Yes, relieved, working five days a
:08:16. > :08:19.week now, great. The Government is trying to get people off welfare and
:08:20. > :08:23.it says it is keeping its side of the bargain by creating more jobs.
:08:24. > :08:27.Over the last year, it is Wales that has seen both the largest increase
:08:28. > :08:30.in the employment rate of any UK region, up 2.1 percentage points.
:08:31. > :08:32.And the largest decrease in the unemployment rate, bringing the
:08:33. > :08:39.total fall since the election to 24,000.
:08:40. > :08:42.This is all the result of our reforms - getting people to step up
:08:43. > :08:45.to their responsibilities to get back to work.
:08:46. > :08:49.While more are now in work, many are struggling. Rachel Stagg has two
:08:50. > :08:53.jobs. Only one of them is paid and it's only for ten hours a week.
:08:54. > :08:56.She's still on job seekers allowance and has to do a whole day's job
:08:57. > :09:06.search every fortnight to avoid sanctions. Back in Swansea she
:09:07. > :09:14.worked out for us how much better off she is working part time instead
:09:15. > :09:34.of living on full benefits. I am just ?2.75 a week better off.
:09:35. > :09:42.It's hard. I want a full-time job. If I get up to 18 hours I would be
:09:43. > :09:46.better off slightly. But if I do 16 hours and pay for rent and council
:09:47. > :09:53.tax, because that's what you have to do, I would only have ?35 more than
:09:54. > :10:16.I would have no. Merrill went to meet Rachel. This
:10:17. > :10:26.furniture was given to me. And the stable. Our friend of mine was
:10:27. > :10:31.drawing out the table. Tell me more about your struggles. You are
:10:32. > :10:37.working but it is not helping you make all your ends meet.
:10:38. > :10:41.No, I thought if I worked I thought I'd get more stuff for the House and
:10:42. > :10:46.me and my son and have a better life really. Then it just didn't work out
:10:47. > :10:55.as well as I thought it would. I think if I worked full time it would
:10:56. > :11:05.be worth working. I believe you have had to go to a food bank.
:11:06. > :11:09.Embarrassing to go to food bank or ask for a voucher. People expect
:11:10. > :11:20.when you're working you don't have to do these things. When I was on my
:11:21. > :11:27.actual JSA I didn't have to do these things.
:11:28. > :11:37.Rachel gets the bus to and from the children's nurseries where she
:11:38. > :11:45.works. How long is our bus ride? You are volunteering five hours a week.
:11:46. > :11:50.What expense does that put undue? It costs me ?70 a month bus card,
:11:51. > :11:59.and then I have to buy smart clothes for work, so that's extra expense
:12:00. > :12:10.then. Is it lifting your spirits? You have got a job. I enjoy working.
:12:11. > :12:21.The Government says its welfare reforms mean it now always pays to
:12:22. > :12:24.be in work rather than on benefits. Experts agree, but say the extra
:12:25. > :12:31.costs of work can make the difference tiny, especially if
:12:32. > :12:36.you're part time. There is a cost to working and that can offset the
:12:37. > :12:45.benefits of work. So politicians need to be aware of that. They need
:12:46. > :12:48.to be looking at that to see if they are actually sure that people who go
:12:49. > :12:51.into work and have their benefits cut because they do have some hours
:12:52. > :12:55.are in fact coming out was because of the benefits cuts.
:12:56. > :12:59.Rachel, who's a single mum, is one of 690,000 people in Wales living in
:13:00. > :13:07.households below the poverty line. But she has a job. This is poverty
:13:08. > :13:11.in work. So what does the Government say to
:13:12. > :13:14.this? The Welsh Secretary couldn't meet
:13:15. > :13:28.Merrill when he was here, so Merrill left him some questions.
:13:29. > :13:31.Hello, Mr Secretary. I am a conservative policy areas like you.
:13:32. > :13:34.I have been looking at your welfare and work programmes and they have
:13:35. > :13:39.questions. Do you believe that what you're doing is actually helping
:13:40. > :13:42.people? We have to understand that the policy we are considering will
:13:43. > :13:49.ensure that it never pays people to be out of work rather than in white.
:13:50. > :13:51.Universal credit which has been rolled out across the country will
:13:52. > :13:56.actually address that. -- rather than in the work. There is nothing
:13:57. > :13:59.better for people than having the structure of work and there is
:14:00. > :14:06.nothing more that gives people a sense of self satisfaction than
:14:07. > :14:08.having a pay packet. Unemployment figures are improving, but Chris
:14:09. > :14:12.Bryant, one of Labour's spokesmen on welfare, says the numbers conceal
:14:13. > :14:20.the problem of poverty in work and that's not all. We have a massive
:14:21. > :14:24.underemployment problem in this country. The number of people in my
:14:25. > :14:28.constituency who maybe have eight hours of work a week, ten hours, and
:14:29. > :14:34.that is not enough to pay the bills were. Now we only enough. So they
:14:35. > :14:42.get some support from the state. -- nowhere near enough. What impact
:14:43. > :14:45.credits, which have been cut, that means people are going to food
:14:46. > :14:50.banks. You have this bizarre situation where people are keen to
:14:51. > :14:53.work. They have not got enough hours and are probably not being paid very
:14:54. > :14:58.much for the few hours they are working and have to rely on charity
:14:59. > :15:04.as well as the state to put food on the table. People like Ian Purcell
:15:05. > :15:08.are trying to alleviate poverty in Wales. He runs five food banks
:15:09. > :15:13.supported by churches in Cardiff. Merrill lent him a hand at the
:15:14. > :15:21.warehouse. How much would they get per person? A single person would
:15:22. > :15:26.get ?25 worth of food lasting 3-5 days. Someone like myself yourself,
:15:27. > :15:32.with a good appetite, it might not last that long. Some people make of
:15:33. > :15:39.that last for a week. -- make the third last.
:15:40. > :15:42.According to those who run Wales's food banks, they're dealing with
:15:43. > :15:48.record numbers of people. People like Peter Nahimara. How much of a
:15:49. > :15:59.struggle is it? It is a big struggle. You look at the fridge and
:16:00. > :16:03.you do not have anything. You did not have anything in your pocket to
:16:04. > :16:07.buy things. The volunteers here have noticed a big increase in the number
:16:08. > :16:13.of people in work and in need. We're getting very busy. Five hours, it is
:16:14. > :16:20.50-50. Half are on benefit and half are in work. So they have work but
:16:21. > :16:25.not enough? The add-on zero hours. They go in one day and an employer
:16:26. > :16:35.might say, we do not need to tomorrow. -- they are on zero hours.
:16:36. > :16:44.I do not like this issue zero hours. Your only given the hours they want
:16:45. > :16:53.you to have. You're on zero hours? Most companies get sea levels. --
:16:54. > :17:03.gives evil powers. -- most companies give zero hours contracts. He is
:17:04. > :17:06.taking part-time jobs and has gone into the zero hours contracts
:17:07. > :17:11.position and he is not able to find any real work with that that
:17:12. > :17:14.sustains him. It seems like this is something where the politicians are
:17:15. > :17:18.promoting something that makes the unemployed numbers look better but
:17:19. > :17:29.actually isn't solving any problems and might be creating more problems
:17:30. > :17:33.than it solves. Your Government has recently said that you're going to
:17:34. > :17:37.be cutting benefits for people if they do not take zero hours
:17:38. > :17:40.contracts. But they seem like they are not actually achieving the goal
:17:41. > :17:45.and they are not helping people get into work. Some aspects of these
:17:46. > :17:50.contracts concern us. What concerns us particularly is where there might
:17:51. > :17:53.be extra 70 provisions so that people who sign up to them are
:17:54. > :17:58.prevented from seeking work elsewhere. We are concerned about
:17:59. > :18:04.that. That is why we launched a consultation some time ago. We have
:18:05. > :18:06.had over 30,000 responses to that consultation and we will respond to
:18:07. > :18:09.that consultation in the course of the next couple of months.
:18:10. > :18:13.Opposition politicians are asking why the Government is telling people
:18:14. > :18:21.to take zero hours contracts or face losing their Unemployment Benefit.
:18:22. > :18:40.As a committed Christian, Merrill was keen to hear what the churches
:18:41. > :18:54.here have been saying about Government welfare reforms.
:18:55. > :19:01.Archbishop. Nice to meet you. Come on in. Glorious day, isn't it? This
:19:02. > :19:08.is a lovely place. They even have your name on it. In case I get
:19:09. > :19:15.lost! These welfare cuts are hurting the
:19:16. > :19:22.poorest of the poor. To that extent, the kind of overall cutting benefits
:19:23. > :19:28.without understanding or necessarily seeing the individual impact of
:19:29. > :19:32.those benefits, that is where I believe the unfairness has come in.
:19:33. > :19:34.Churches, both Catholic and Protestant have been united in their
:19:35. > :19:37.opposition to the Government's benefit cuts. But Merrill says
:19:38. > :19:45.they're wrong. Supporting the poor is the duty of individuals he
:19:46. > :19:47.thinks, not the state. What is an obligation for the individual
:19:48. > :19:52.Christian has nothing to do with what should be an obligation of the
:19:53. > :19:56.Government. To say that the Christian contribution to society
:19:57. > :20:02.has nothing to do with the Government is my contribution and
:20:03. > :20:11.vice versa, it is dividing society up. Because a society, the
:20:12. > :20:14.Government and the churches are not engaged with one another in the
:20:15. > :20:24.common good, gaps emerge through which people will fall.
:20:25. > :20:27.The church is concerned that the Government is cutting back benefits
:20:28. > :20:33.and that at people. I'm a Christian too. And in the US, we think that
:20:34. > :20:40.giving should be an individual's responsibility, not a government's.
:20:41. > :20:45.In addition, the churches often require something. If they provide a
:20:46. > :20:48.meal, they require the person to listen to a sermon. It creates a
:20:49. > :20:53.connection between what the person is getting and what they are giving.
:20:54. > :20:56.That is the way benefits programme should be established. If the UK
:20:57. > :21:00.Government isn't doing that, it should.
:21:01. > :21:03.In other words, Merrill believes that in return for support from the
:21:04. > :21:07.state, people claiming benefits should do some work, even if it's
:21:08. > :21:14.unpaid. Lee Jeffs is doing just that in the Pontrypridd area. I was a job
:21:15. > :21:18.club and job searching and they asked volunteers and I said I was
:21:19. > :21:21.willing. Glyncoch Regeneration and the local council run a recycling
:21:22. > :21:28.scheme that funds itself with the help of volunteers. Not getting paid
:21:29. > :21:32.for it, but it is voluntary. I am not paid to work. Lee has had some
:21:33. > :21:36.mental health and alcohol issues but he's determined that this time he's
:21:37. > :21:38.going to get a job and stick with it. Just hoping something will come
:21:39. > :21:43.out of it. It is better than being stuck in the house all day. I want
:21:44. > :21:46.to get out and do stuff. I would obviously be fair trade work but at
:21:47. > :21:52.the moment I cannot get a job that is paid so I do voluntary to get
:21:53. > :21:55.myself into full-time work. No pay, low pay, part-time
:21:56. > :21:59.contracts. But Merrill believes the answer to poverty in work isn't to
:22:00. > :22:01.raise wages, like some suggest. He doesn't even believe in a national
:22:02. > :22:14.minimum wage. To show us why, he took us back to
:22:15. > :22:20.that small company in Merthyr where Matthew Davies works. Phil Corke's
:22:21. > :22:23.workforce earns good wages, but he says he could take on more
:22:24. > :22:32.youngsters if it weren't for the minimum wage. We would like to
:22:33. > :22:36.employ more young people. Uses the blood of industry but we are having
:22:37. > :22:41.these Government rules put on us like the minimum wage and everything
:22:42. > :22:47.else at the moment. Legislation. You used to hire more people, didn't
:22:48. > :22:49.you? We certainly did. Before the minimum wage, we hired more
:22:50. > :22:54.youngsters and train them and they went on to better things perhaps.
:22:55. > :22:58.When they have got the skills, we can obviously afford to pay them.
:22:59. > :23:01.But in the interim, there is a big training programme that we have to
:23:02. > :23:05.follow to get into the level we require. Independent experts say the
:23:06. > :23:12.national minimum wage doesn't affect employment, but Merrill agrees with
:23:13. > :23:15.Phil. What is happening here is that the Government is trying to do good
:23:16. > :23:21.things but is in fact getting in the way of job creation. Because small
:23:22. > :23:25.and medium-sized businesses, those of the job generators in both the UK
:23:26. > :23:29.and the US. They create the most jobs. But they do not have the
:23:30. > :23:36.assets to be able to pay large salaries. They need to bring someone
:23:37. > :23:41.in at a lower price and raise that when the person becomes skilled.
:23:42. > :23:44.Average unemployment is under 7%, but youth unemployment is between
:23:45. > :23:47.two and three times higher than that. Merrill says the Government
:23:48. > :23:52.should subsidise employers to take on youngsters. Matthew Davies owes
:23:53. > :24:01.his job here in fact to one such scheme. Matthew has gone onto the
:24:02. > :24:05.Jobs Growth Wales programme where he has been supported for six months.
:24:06. > :24:09.After that period, as long as he kicks all the boxes, which he has
:24:10. > :24:12.done so far, we give them an apprenticeship and train him as an
:24:13. > :24:15.engineer. The Welsh Government scheme gives
:24:16. > :24:19.the employer enough money to pay a young person's wages for six months,
:24:20. > :24:22.providing the boss agrees to find them a permanent job in the end. You
:24:23. > :24:29.have got people on benefits. The question is, how'd you the person
:24:30. > :24:32.transitioning from benefits. They will be taking the money anyway.
:24:33. > :24:36.Using Jobs Growth Wales allows them to try out skills, get that
:24:37. > :24:41.experience, see if it works, and if it does, they have a new good
:24:42. > :24:48.employee and the unemployed worker finally has a job.
:24:49. > :24:51.While the UK Government has been getting tougher on claims for
:24:52. > :24:55.benefits, it's also introduced the Work Programme to help people get
:24:56. > :25:02.jobs. We took Merrill to Glyncoch to see how it's operating. The first
:25:03. > :25:13.person he met was Lee Jeffs. We saw him earlier doing voluntary work.
:25:14. > :25:17.Lee Jeffs. Looks like you got me some good Welsh weather!
:25:18. > :25:19.He got that post with the help of this community centre and its Welsh
:25:20. > :25:27.Government-backed schemes. Paul Stepczack is in charge. These are
:25:28. > :25:30.just some of our learners. They are here or any basic skills course at
:25:31. > :25:36.the moment to help with numeracy and literacy. We have, in the area
:25:37. > :25:41.alone, about 150 different adult learners on our books. They gain in
:25:42. > :25:45.the region of 400 qualifications a year at all levels. Lee came to us
:25:46. > :25:49.because we also run the job club, and from assessing Lee's needs, we
:25:50. > :25:52.found a number of courses which could help him into employment. One
:25:53. > :25:55.of those courses results in a qualification to work on a
:25:56. > :26:00.construction site, known as the CSCS Card. Lee says that got him a
:26:01. > :26:04.labouring job a few years ago, but since he's been on the Work
:26:05. > :26:14.Programme, he's had no real help to find employment. It did not work
:26:15. > :26:17.well for you? Noel. I am leaving now so I can move onto something else
:26:18. > :26:23.and actually do something. I have been out of a job since being in the
:26:24. > :26:27.Work Programme. Paul Stepczak says he's seen a lot
:26:28. > :26:31.of job-seekers who are considered to be too hard to place by the Work
:26:32. > :26:34.Programme, so aren't helped at all. We have seen and have actually have
:26:35. > :26:40.some employees mention the traffic light system. That is where people
:26:41. > :26:45.are marked as clean, amber and read. If your green, you unemployable and
:26:46. > :26:50.you're given support and help on your way. If you read, people are
:26:51. > :26:57.further from the market. -- if you are red. In my experience,
:26:58. > :27:04.unfortunate, those people have been put in the draw. -- in the draw.
:27:05. > :27:08.Fewer than 11% of people on the Work Programme got a job after 12 months.
:27:09. > :27:10.But the Welsh Secretary says the programme is working. The Work
:27:11. > :27:13.Programme is aimed at the 10% of those cases that are most difficult.
:27:14. > :27:17.That has started to prove very effective in Wales. Back in
:27:18. > :27:26.December, we did an analysis and found 12,000 people who had been off
:27:27. > :27:30.work and had then found employment. I think overall the Work Programme
:27:31. > :27:35.is starting to prove its worth. How are you? Good seeing you. Nice
:27:36. > :27:39.meeting you. It's a long way from Texas, but
:27:40. > :27:43.after his mosey through the valleys and taking a long, hard look at our
:27:44. > :27:50.work and benefits system, what does Merrill think about it?
:27:51. > :27:53.The last time I was in Wales, the Government was looking at welfare
:27:54. > :27:58.reform in order to get people back to work. Well, I have been back and
:27:59. > :28:01.looked at those efforts and they have made some steps in the right
:28:02. > :28:05.direction but there are a lot of improvements that need to be made.
:28:06. > :28:08.A Texas conservative he might be, but his conclusion is that
:28:09. > :28:13.individuals do need help and that Government has to do more than cut
:28:14. > :28:23.benefits. It must also keep its side of the bargain, and this is his
:28:24. > :28:26.final message. There are many people out there who
:28:27. > :28:31.really want to find a job and go to work. It is time for the elected
:28:32. > :28:36.officials to go to work to ensure that they can.