:00:00. > :00:12.An ex-cop says no and believes Wales could plot its own course.
:00:13. > :00:26.We need to decriminalise, a fresh new approach.
:00:27. > :00:28.Tonight we put his views to the test.
:00:29. > :00:34.We're human beings at the end of the day.
:00:35. > :00:43.We travel to Portugal to see their new radical approach.
:00:44. > :00:47.They trust does and they feel safe with others.
:00:48. > :00:56.A lot of people, they should stay illegal.
:00:57. > :00:58.We go to Wrexham to see their problems with drug use.
:00:59. > :01:03.And ask could Arfon Jones' controversial
:01:04. > :01:14.Do they want a drug shooting gallery that could sustain a drug using
:01:15. > :01:18.lifestyle? Do they really want that? It's Friday morning,
:01:19. > :01:23.in Cardiff city centre, and Mick's just had his fix
:01:24. > :01:42.for the day. I usually get down here about
:01:43. > :01:54.7:30am. Nice one. Cheers. Thanks. I buy a ?10 bag. It should last nine
:01:55. > :02:01.hours before you start withdrawal. You know what I mean? I've seen it
:02:02. > :02:05.change on the streets for the worse. It's bad out there now. People
:02:06. > :02:07.stabbing each other in the back. Just for the sake of five or six
:02:08. > :02:10.quid. He's one of the almost 50,000 people
:02:11. > :02:26.in Wales with a drug problem. I use street drugs. I've been
:02:27. > :02:31.self-medicating for 16 years. Same. Maybe a bit longer.
:02:32. > :02:33.Problem drug users are those who use opioids like heroin,
:02:34. > :02:48.When I ask for help, I'm told to wait six months before they offer me
:02:49. > :02:49.help. I have a family. Five boys. Using class a drugs has just
:02:50. > :03:18.destroyed me. When he is not on the street, Mick
:03:19. > :03:25.is at a day centre. When did you inject today? In the side of my leg.
:03:26. > :03:45.It's a car-park for some, and the streets for others .
:03:46. > :03:54.There's nowhere to go around here. Nowhere to go. You are using the
:03:55. > :03:58.toilet, using the bushes. People look down on as like we are scum.
:03:59. > :04:01.We're not scum. Where human beings at the end of the day.
:04:02. > :04:06.They often get in trouble with the law.
:04:07. > :04:08.The Home Office estimates that under half of acquisitive
:04:09. > :04:24.He just got out of jail yesterday. He's been in the game as long as I
:04:25. > :04:29.have. Maybe longer. What were you in for? Shoplifting for funding the
:04:30. > :04:33.habit. It's what most people do. And it's not just a problem
:04:34. > :04:35.in our capital city. In Wrexham, anxieties over
:04:36. > :04:37.drug use have reached Police and councillors have
:04:38. > :04:46.been at meetings trying We are in fear of these people
:04:47. > :04:59.handing out... They're worried about some
:05:00. > :05:01.of the town's 50 drug users who congregate in the Grosvenor Road
:05:02. > :05:17.area where charities We've got people who are using drugs
:05:18. > :05:23.openly on the street. It may not be an actual problem but it is very
:05:24. > :05:29.worrying for people. It seems that they can go into a chemist and grab
:05:30. > :05:37.a pack fall. They get ten or 20, just use one or two and throw the
:05:38. > :05:40.whole lot away. They are allowed to meet in groups and they threaten
:05:41. > :05:42.people. They don't get the sympathy that some of them, I have to say,
:05:43. > :05:45.need. Arfon Jones is Police
:05:46. > :05:47.and Crime Commissioner for North Wales and a Wrexham
:05:48. > :05:49.councillor, so he's Lots of them are addicted to drugs
:05:50. > :06:00.because of some trauma in life. And he has
:06:01. > :06:03.a radical plan to address these. No way we can arrest our way
:06:04. > :06:07.out of this drugs war. We need to decriminalise,
:06:08. > :06:17.a fresh new approach. Make it a public health
:06:18. > :06:27.issue and put more resources into health
:06:28. > :06:29.to help people with addiction. He's calling for decriminalisation
:06:30. > :06:32.of the possession of drugs and a so-called fix room
:06:33. > :06:35.in the town. Today Arfon Jones is with
:06:36. > :06:40.drug-worker Pete Jones who's taking him to a popular spot
:06:41. > :06:43.used by drug users, This is what people
:06:44. > :06:52.are worried about. Clean needles are issued to drug
:06:53. > :06:55.users to reduce the risk of disease. But many used ones
:06:56. > :07:11.are left lying around. It has got a long tip on it. That
:07:12. > :07:13.goes safely inside the box. I just close it up.
:07:14. > :07:14.The council estimates a quarter of a million
:07:15. > :07:17.needles were issued in Wrexham last year.
:07:18. > :07:19.Pete Jones says most are returned to needle exchanges,
:07:20. > :07:34.An orange tip there. Can you see? Peter's doing a wonderful job,
:07:35. > :07:39.voluntarily, not getting paid. It's a dirty job that needs doing. We
:07:40. > :07:44.need to clean this up and we also need to stop it getting out there in
:07:45. > :07:51.the first place. We need a fix room. So people who are dependent on
:07:52. > :07:54.opiates can go somewhere safe and clean to inject and so they don't
:07:55. > :07:58.dispose their paraphernalia like they do here.
:07:59. > :08:04.Ty Croeso is where Pete helps run various services for the homeless
:08:05. > :08:07.and substance abusers, including this needle exchange,
:08:08. > :08:12.which is causing so much controversy locally.
:08:13. > :08:21.What happens when a person comes in here now to see you? They will have
:08:22. > :08:27.a chat with me when I established what they will be using. For
:08:28. > :08:32.example, they might want a one milk syringe and a couple to cook up
:08:33. > :08:37.their drug of choice. That has a filter in it to get rid of debris.
:08:38. > :08:45.This is all about harm reduction. You don't want somebody using
:08:46. > :08:46.somebody's used equipment because then you could be providing an
:08:47. > :08:49.environment for infection. Arfon Jones thinks things would be
:08:50. > :08:52.even safer for drug users if they could also consume the drugs
:08:53. > :08:54.on these premises, How would this go down with current
:08:55. > :09:08.user Luke and former addict Mark? Would you find this helpful and
:09:09. > :09:16.safer if you were allowed to use this building to inject? There
:09:17. > :09:21.should be somewhere to go to inject properly, supervised by a nurse in
:09:22. > :09:25.case anything went wrong, and that. I used to go behind the council
:09:26. > :09:30.houses to inject and I was always scared that the police would catch
:09:31. > :09:34.me injecting and I might rush and miss and do something seriously
:09:35. > :09:42.wrong to my body. Which I have done in my past. I've been walking around
:09:43. > :09:50.with blood all over me. As a user, I'd like to say yes but I'm also of
:09:51. > :09:55.the opinion that, maybe, no. Even though I am a user, I think it might
:09:56. > :09:59.glorify it all, do you know what I mean?
:10:00. > :10:02.The Police Commissioner says a fix room could be where addicts come
:10:03. > :10:07.But he wants to go even further and have the NHS prescribe pure
:10:08. > :10:09.medical grade heroin substitutes as part of supervised treatment
:10:10. > :10:13.But, what is important is that you have support there.
:10:14. > :10:17.It is not just a question of allowing them to inject their own
:10:18. > :10:19.drugs, you need to have nurses there just in case
:10:20. > :10:22.You need to have naloxon so that they can treat
:10:23. > :10:29.So allowing them to use a fix room is just part of the answer.
:10:30. > :10:33.You know. It is to make it a health issue.
:10:34. > :10:37.The Police Commissioner looks to Switzerland as an example.
:10:38. > :10:40.We went there fifteen years ago to see the approach,
:10:41. > :10:50.meeting Peter Richard, addicted to heroin for 25 years.
:10:51. > :10:56.One is working every day, as family, good friends, life can be very well,
:10:57. > :11:00.even as a heroin addict. The Swiss have clinics where addicts
:11:01. > :11:04.inject themselves with medical grade heroin supplied by their health
:11:05. > :11:05.service We spoke to Peter this month
:11:06. > :11:11.and he told us after five years at this clinic
:11:12. > :11:15.he felt ready to leave. He's in good health and says
:11:16. > :11:18.he has no cravings for any drugs. The Swiss have collected a lot
:11:19. > :11:22.of hard data on their new system and its supporters say it actually
:11:23. > :11:24.saves money because There are those who are sceptical
:11:25. > :11:35.the Swiss approach would work here. David Raynes was once
:11:36. > :11:37.a customs and excise drugs intelligence officer for Wales
:11:38. > :11:39.and the West country. He's doubtful any kind of fix room
:11:40. > :11:51.would be acceptable. Switzerland is a very small country.
:11:52. > :11:55.It's very different. You can't necessarily take the situation in
:11:56. > :12:01.one tiny country and extrapolate that across a country like the UK
:12:02. > :12:06.with a population approaching 70 million. If you are going to have
:12:07. > :12:08.shooting galleries in London, you'd probably need 20. That's a huge
:12:09. > :12:10.cost. a shooting gallery that
:12:11. > :12:37.would sustain a drug- But it could be cheaper? Yes. But it
:12:38. > :12:41.costs money. You'd have to take the money out of the NHS. That money
:12:42. > :12:45.could be used to treat people with cancer. It would be a very hard
:12:46. > :12:52.sell. When people can't get drugs for cancer. What would the reaction
:12:53. > :12:59.be if you give this money and go short on providing for cancer drugs?
:13:00. > :13:03.At this moment in time, there are ?12 million for drugs in North Wales
:13:04. > :13:04.and we need to look at spending that better and be more effective in how
:13:05. > :13:07.we spend it. Asked about the prospect
:13:08. > :13:09.of so-called fix rooms, the Welsh Government said it wasn't
:13:10. > :13:12.a straightforward issue under UK legislation,
:13:13. > :13:15.but pointed out there was a multi- agency steering group looking
:13:16. > :13:34.at evidence and considering the need My other children and friends were
:13:35. > :13:36.saying, Natalie is on drugs, and I didn't believe them. She promised
:13:37. > :13:40.me, she swore. Nathalie was on hard
:13:41. > :13:42.drugs for ten years. I think there is a case for six
:13:43. > :14:06.to heroin addiction. I think there is a case for six
:14:07. > :14:13.rooms. I don't. You are helping them with their fix. What if somebody
:14:14. > :14:18.bought a drug and it wasn't heroin, and they dropped it on the floor,
:14:19. > :14:25.who is to blame? Youthful giving them the needle? You can't test each
:14:26. > :14:30.one that is coming in. You don't know if it is heroin or not. And
:14:31. > :14:37.secondly, it is a class a drug, isn't it, like Coke and other drugs.
:14:38. > :14:42.So you are letting somebody who is carrying a class a drug into this
:14:43. > :14:47.room. You are giving them the needle to inject themselves, and you are
:14:48. > :14:54.standing there watching them illegally. But they are addicts. It
:14:55. > :15:05.doesn't matter. They are still doing it illegally.
:15:06. > :15:12.Enforcing the law on drugs is costing billions worldwide.
:15:13. > :15:16.surveillance operation, tracking drugs coming
:15:17. > :15:20.Just the night before they busted a dealer in Yorkshire,
:15:21. > :15:22.seizing a firearm and a significant amount of cash.
:15:23. > :15:28.Six arrests at three different sites in Yorkshire. I think the drug scene
:15:29. > :15:34.in North Wales would be akin to anywhere inning and in Wales.
:15:35. > :15:36.I wouldn't describe it as out of control,
:15:37. > :15:40.Good successes over last few years and people have
:15:41. > :15:52.Officers are busy at the other end of the scale too-
:15:53. > :15:59.policing the effects of drug-taking on the user and the wider community.
:16:00. > :16:02.One of their biggest challenges is so called legal highs - new
:16:03. > :16:04.psychoactive substances like black mamba and spice which mimic
:16:05. > :16:10.They are causing me significant concerns.
:16:11. > :16:18.It is still untested what the long-term effects of taking these
:16:19. > :16:27.drugs will be. But we are coming across particularly young males with
:16:28. > :16:31.some sort of psychosis, lying prostrate on the street, and members
:16:32. > :16:37.of the public are alarmed, and that is an illegal drugs they are taking.
:16:38. > :16:40.Over a period of two months Wrexham police patrolled the streets
:16:41. > :16:42.for an extra two and half thousand hours in response to
:16:43. > :16:46.But Chief Inspector Jolly says this can't go on.
:16:47. > :16:49.There's a sustainability issue for me here
:16:50. > :16:52.The Commissioner says the real solution, apart from fix room
:16:53. > :16:56.is to decriminalise the possession of all drugs.
:16:57. > :17:00.We need to think bigger and how to problem solve it and put together
:17:01. > :17:18.sustainable solutions. The commissioner says that the
:17:19. > :17:22.solution is decriminalising drugs. Should we be wasting valuable
:17:23. > :17:27.resources on something that is not causing harm like a small amount of
:17:28. > :17:31.cannabis when there is organised crime going on around the supply of
:17:32. > :17:38.cocaine and heroin when people are being killed in gangland killings in
:17:39. > :17:41.Manchester and Liverpool. That is where the resources should be, not
:17:42. > :17:58.arresting people with a small amount of drugs. Police insist that there
:17:59. > :18:05.resources are already proportionate, encouraging people towards
:18:06. > :18:09.rehabilitation. In America, some drugs are already decriminalised.
:18:10. > :18:11.The MP for the Rhondda Chris Bryant lost his mother
:18:12. > :18:14.He's against a more liberal attitude to drugs.
:18:15. > :18:19.It preys on the parts of your subconscious that you are not happy
:18:20. > :18:27.with, and it turns you into a different human being. And I just
:18:28. > :18:32.don't want us as a country, as a Parliament, to say, you know what?
:18:33. > :18:36.Play with that. Have a go. It doesn't matter. In the end, it
:18:37. > :18:41.doesn't really matter. Because it does. But the Liberal lies as are
:18:42. > :18:47.saying they are not calling for any of these changes because they want
:18:48. > :18:52.to see an increase in drugs or normalising it. I don't believe it.
:18:53. > :18:57.They say they want to reduce it by regulating. I think there are some
:18:58. > :19:03.people who, because in their ideological mindset, they go, do you
:19:04. > :19:06.know what? I want to liberalised. I don't think it should be illegal,
:19:07. > :19:09.and that is the end of it. And my best argument I have got is it would
:19:10. > :19:22.be better for everybody, and I just don't buy it.
:19:23. > :19:35.We brought Arfon Jones to a country that decriminalised drugs 15 years
:19:36. > :19:40.ago. I have heard from other people that it is not a magic will it,
:19:41. > :19:45.decriminalisation, so I am here to see for myself on the front line
:19:46. > :19:56.with a bit of scepticism, and I remain to be convinced.
:19:57. > :19:58.The first thing they tell you here is they haven't
:19:59. > :20:02.Long time since I've been out with sirens .
:20:03. > :20:07.Ahead of us, two white vans packed with drugs seized from traffickers.
:20:08. > :20:11.Three tonnes of hard and soft drugs, worth tens of millions
:20:12. > :20:13.of pounds, are brought to an incinerator.
:20:14. > :20:22.The supply and possession of drugs here is still illegal.
:20:23. > :20:31.It is part of a big package that has been seized.
:20:32. > :20:32.Narcotics are seized and burnt, traffickers jailed.
:20:33. > :20:49.The change here is subtle, although you get a clue on the streets.
:20:50. > :20:52.Marta and Rui are health workers for a charity that
:20:53. > :20:58.There are lot of crack cocaine smokers and sex workers
:20:59. > :21:09.Some of them don't have a mother or father. Some of them look on us as
:21:10. > :21:12.the family. They become sisters and brothers. They trust us, and they
:21:13. > :21:18.feel safe with us. They say it's become much easier
:21:19. > :21:21.to help people since Portugal reduced the penalties for drug
:21:22. > :21:23.possession 15 years ago. Argentina, a crack addict,
:21:24. > :21:26.told us she feels safer asking This woman's getting foil
:21:27. > :22:00.to smoke crack cocaine. All within yards of the local
:22:01. > :22:11.police, who don't bat an eyelid. Me feel very secure with us. That
:22:12. > :22:14.the police force won't do anything to them.
:22:15. > :22:34.supply of any drugs, with more than ten days'
:22:35. > :22:39.They take action. If it is less, they get sent to a dissuasion
:22:40. > :22:42.commission. Pedro is already getting treated
:22:43. > :22:44.for heroin addiction. So he is told firmly
:22:45. > :22:46.to stick with the programme A social worker was brought
:22:47. > :22:50.in to help him sort out his life. There will be penalties
:22:51. > :23:00.if he's back again. If a drug user is in need of help,
:23:01. > :23:04.or if you want some sort of counselling or some sort of
:23:05. > :23:07.referral, I am in a much better position to provide them with that
:23:08. > :23:15.help than a judge would be. Because the judges and the courts were built
:23:16. > :23:20.under the assumption that if you hand out sanctions, that person
:23:21. > :23:24.would never do that again, and that might work if you are talking about
:23:25. > :23:26.someone that robbed the bank, but for drug users, it might not work as
:23:27. > :23:28.well as that. This is the unique
:23:29. > :23:30.thing about Portugal. Some countries have so-called drugs
:23:31. > :23:32.courts, but here they have effectively moved drug use away
:23:33. > :23:51.from police and courts Nuno says if they are coming to the
:23:52. > :23:56.health service, they can get people to treatment more quickly.
:23:57. > :23:58.Before austerity measures cut the Portuguese health budget,
:23:59. > :24:01.drug users could get in here within a week of a referral
:24:02. > :24:11.In the detox area, we met 24-year-old Ana Branco.
:24:12. > :24:12.She referred herself here, fearing her crack
:24:13. > :24:25.Specman free thank you very much. She said she is taking medication
:24:26. > :24:31.for anxiety and depression and for withdrawal of cocaine. She is also
:24:32. > :24:34.on a methadone programme, and now she is decreasing her dose.
:24:35. > :24:37.The staff here say decriminalisation has taken the stigma away
:24:38. > :24:39.from addiction but more importantly it's been accompanied with a lot
:24:40. > :24:49.Both liberals and conservatives can be selective about
:24:50. > :24:57.So for another view, we took Arfon Jones to Europe's
:24:58. > :25:06.independent drug monitoring agency, also based in Lisbon.
:25:07. > :25:12.The Portuguese change is consistent and coherent, set ever body in
:25:13. > :25:17.Portugal knows what is happening to a drug user, whereas in other
:25:18. > :25:20.countries, a doctor might give you one answer, a policeman might give
:25:21. > :25:24.you another answer, and a Government official might give you a third.
:25:25. > :25:27.The agency say drug use figures in Portugal are broadly in line
:25:28. > :25:29.with other European countries-some up, some are down.
:25:30. > :25:31.Some senior police officers were privately sceptical at first.
:25:32. > :25:34.Now they say the policy's working for them, saying it allows them
:25:35. > :25:42.Finally, we took Arfon Jones to meet with the architect
:25:43. > :25:50.Dr Goulao has become well-known internationally,
:25:51. > :25:52.He says the policy's worked for Portugal, but he's not convinced
:25:53. > :26:03.Our drug problems were present across all social groups
:26:04. > :26:12.But probably in your country things are much more confined to
:26:13. > :26:13.marginalised people, so that makes it more difficult, the acceptance
:26:14. > :26:16.for the rest of society. So a note of caution
:26:17. > :26:18.on the final day. What does the commissioner
:26:19. > :26:33.think having now met In 2001, Portugal was ready for
:26:34. > :26:36.change. I'm not sure we can say the same thing about England and Wales
:26:37. > :26:44.because of the nature of who is a fact by a diction. Does that put you
:26:45. > :26:46.off? Are you disappointed? It is thought I have, but I don't think we
:26:47. > :26:48.should give up. Arfon Jones accepts he has
:26:49. > :26:54.a big job on to change What does decriminalisation
:26:55. > :27:07.mean to you? Well, it means certain drugs,
:27:08. > :27:10.they won't be arrested for, they can take legally and that's
:27:11. > :27:27.what I think anyway. I don't think much would happen. If
:27:28. > :27:31.the drug is decriminalised, it becomes to do with health, not with
:27:32. > :27:35.the justice system. But that won't help most people anyway, they will
:27:36. > :27:38.put it in a handbag or their pocket, it will be fine. That is not the
:27:39. > :27:46.case. It should stay illegal. Maria's daughter is off heroin now,
:27:47. > :27:49.but the response of families like hers is a challenge
:27:50. > :27:51.for drugs reformers. In the Rhonda, Chris Bryant says
:27:52. > :27:53.we don't know enough about drugs Many are very highly
:27:54. > :27:59.addictive and therefore very Many lead to very
:28:00. > :28:02.chaotic lifestyles. Some prey off other and deeper
:28:03. > :28:10.psychological problems. Which again we don't fully
:28:11. > :28:15.understand and my anxiety is that you would be,
:28:16. > :28:19.not necessarily leading to a massive opening
:28:20. > :28:21.of the doors and the floodgates I don't subscribe to that kind
:28:22. > :28:25.of language at all but if there were an extra 50 people
:28:26. > :28:28.in the Rhondda who ended up taking heroin or crack cocaine,
:28:29. > :28:31.then I think that would be a failure The Home Office told us there are no
:28:32. > :28:38.plans to decriminalise drugs. But is Arfon Jones still
:28:39. > :28:44.convinced of his case? Decriminalisation means that
:28:45. > :28:46.addiction is treated as a disease rather than a crime and I think
:28:47. > :28:50.that is the way forward. That is the way we treat
:28:51. > :28:53.people who are addicted to prescription drugs,
:28:54. > :28:55.those who are addicted to alcohol. So why should people addicted
:28:56. > :28:57.to unlawful drugs be Whatever is the way forward,
:28:58. > :29:05.the possession and supply of drugs continues to have impacts on Welsh
:29:06. > :29:11.communities and individuals. There comes a time where you just
:29:12. > :29:25.get sick and tired of it just At least for John Paul,
:29:26. > :29:35.there's more optimism. I lasted ten months last year
:29:36. > :29:53.without using. My family and kids deserve
:29:54. > :29:59.better than me. I let a lot of people down by
:30:00. > :30:07.sinking back into this way of living. And Week In Week Out is back
:30:08. > :30:11.on Monday night at 8:30pm. And this time tomorrow, it is the Wales
:30:12. > :30:14.Report.