What Women Want

:00:00. > :00:00.In What Women Want, Jackie Bird meets women from all walks of life

:00:00. > :00:23.in an attempt to find out why this gap exists.

:00:24. > :00:29.Men and women are different. No great insight needed for that. At a

:00:30. > :00:33.comedy club like this, toying with that gender gap. The way the sexes

:00:34. > :00:37.approach their lives is the route to many a punchline. I've got four

:00:38. > :00:41.kids. Of course I married for the second time. Four kids can't have

:00:42. > :00:48.the same father. I'm visiting a different gene pool because you get

:00:49. > :00:49.all. There might not be a lot of humour in the independence

:00:50. > :00:55.referendum debate but the difference between men and women's reaction to

:00:56. > :00:59.it are clear and crucial. Women are 6% or 7% less likely to say they

:01:00. > :01:08.will support independence than men. Alex, if I voted yes, are you going

:01:09. > :01:13.to bring back... Comedians and politicians alike are always trying

:01:14. > :01:17.to work out what appeals to women. I don't believe you can simply

:01:18. > :01:21.identify one thing that women will respond to, like cold care, and

:01:22. > :01:31.therefore that will make them decide whether they want to leave the UK.

:01:32. > :01:38.But the campaign that works out the serious business on what women want

:01:39. > :01:43.could have the last laugh. Unless we can persuade a majority of

:01:44. > :01:45.women, women are the majority of the population, marginally, then we

:01:46. > :02:08.won't win the referendum. Bingo. You go to have a good time in

:02:09. > :02:13.the hope you come out better off. But it's more luck than judgement.

:02:14. > :02:17.The women here think the referendum debate so far is also a game of

:02:18. > :02:28.chance. Here in Paisley, it is eyes down for a full house. Have you made

:02:29. > :02:34.up your mind? Yes. No. Would you tell me how you will vote? No. You

:02:35. > :02:39.are going to vote no? Yes. I don't know enough about it. I don't know

:02:40. > :02:43.enough about it. Have you made up your mind? As to how you are going

:02:44. > :02:52.to vote? I'm just not sure. What's making you unsure? I don't know if I

:02:53. > :03:01.could go alone. What is the most you have ever won? I'm not saying. Women

:03:02. > :03:06.make up 82% of voters in Scotland. So, it is women like these and other

:03:07. > :03:13.big say in what happens September. To be honest, I'm not politically

:03:14. > :03:17.minded. I don't bother with politics. I don't watch the even

:03:18. > :03:22.television, watch the news. We will draw a veil over that. So many women

:03:23. > :03:25.we have spoke to said they aren't interested because they aren't

:03:26. > :03:31.interested in politics. Yes. It is a bit of a shame. I have heard that at

:03:32. > :03:35.groups I go to. A lot of the women feel like that. They just aren't

:03:36. > :03:40.interested at all. They just leave it to everybody else. If that's

:03:41. > :03:45.because they are confused by the options, I know how they feel. There

:03:46. > :03:52.is a preconception, and it's a misconception, among too many of the

:03:53. > :03:57.women we have spoken to tonight, but they don't know enough about

:03:58. > :04:01.politics. And they do. They know what they want in their lives and

:04:02. > :04:05.they know when things are going right and when things are going

:04:06. > :04:15.wrong. The thing is, to get them engaged, how do you dispel that?

:04:16. > :04:34.There is plenty of evidence that women's vote is being taken

:04:35. > :04:36.seriously in this referendum. A pro independence campaign has

:04:37. > :04:40.established several groups to get women's votes. They are pushing the

:04:41. > :04:45.message into Scotland's homes. This came through my letterbox and

:04:46. > :04:50.nowhere does it say it is specifically targeted at women but I

:04:51. > :04:53.think it makes an interesting read. From the front page onwards, there

:04:54. > :04:59.is a woman and a child. The emphasis there on childcare and the things

:05:00. > :05:04.that women say they are particular be interested in. Immediately we

:05:05. > :05:10.have a famous female figure. Lots of women and children. Even Nicola

:05:11. > :05:14.Sturgeon in the centre pages. A very able politician who we normally see

:05:15. > :05:17.in serious mode here she is in the kitchen, receiving a wedding

:05:18. > :05:28.picture. It is definitely female friendly. This targeting suggests

:05:29. > :05:32.the pro independence campaigners are worried about getting women on their

:05:33. > :05:37.side but are those fears grounded? When this woman isn't at home on

:05:38. > :05:42.maternity leave riding her baby, she is the of the hugely influential

:05:43. > :05:48.Scottish attitude survey. One of the most respected gauges of what

:05:49. > :05:52.Scotland thinks. We've been asking about attitudes to the Constitution

:05:53. > :05:58.since 1999 and the whole period since 1999 we have found a pretty

:05:59. > :06:04.consistent 6%`7% gap in the support for independence between men and

:06:05. > :06:09.women. `` percentage point gap. They are less likely to support

:06:10. > :06:13.independence than men. That gender gap, if you like, has been found by

:06:14. > :06:16.other companies, doing other surveys. It is one of the most

:06:17. > :06:22.consistent findings across surveys and polls around attitudes to

:06:23. > :06:26.independence. And that is supported by the latest survey from the

:06:27. > :06:33.opinion polling firm TNS. It makes interesting reading. Here is what

:06:34. > :06:38.they found. Yes, the gender gap certainly does still exist. On their

:06:39. > :06:45.latest survey, 22% of women say they will vote yes. That's compared with

:06:46. > :06:52.35% of men. That's a difference of 13 percentage points. Based on this,

:06:53. > :06:55.and other polls, those fighting for a yes vote certainly seem to have

:06:56. > :07:02.their work cut out for them it comes to persuading women. Most women, as

:07:03. > :07:09.opposed to political activists, still usually flock to public

:07:10. > :07:12.meetings. The first task for campaigners is to round up enough

:07:13. > :07:19.women in order to inspire them. To see that, I am on my way to a

:07:20. > :07:26.village tucked away on the peninsulas. There is this idea that

:07:27. > :07:27.you can do is the big cities. But of course Scotland isn't just about the

:07:28. > :07:40.big cities. Far from it. This is a place I know well, having

:07:41. > :07:49.spent many holidays here. Today is strictly business.

:07:50. > :07:55.I'm here to eavesdrop, as a group of women spend a Saturday morning

:07:56. > :08:06.discussing the future of the country. Morning! Morning. We all

:08:07. > :08:11.honestly believe, because we are women for it and is, but a yes vote

:08:12. > :08:14.offers the best prospect for a fair Scotland, the communities and future

:08:15. > :08:18.generations. No prizes for guessing that I'm very enthusiastic about the

:08:19. > :08:26.idea of the opportunities independence would offer us.

:08:27. > :08:29.Especially as women. The Women for Independence Group is hosting dozens

:08:30. > :08:33.of meetings like this all over the country. Its members are on a

:08:34. > :08:38.mission to convert the undecided, the uninterested and the

:08:39. > :08:44.unconvinced. Let's take the leap of faith and trust that what we will

:08:45. > :08:50.get in the long run will be good. Why should women go back and work

:08:51. > :08:54.also have two more than pay their ways they can go to work and give

:08:55. > :08:59.their child a better life? I think we need to be careful, people like

:09:00. > :09:01.me need to be careful, in not suggesting that independence is some

:09:02. > :09:08.kind of fairy dust. But all we have to do is vote for independence and

:09:09. > :09:12.it. Raining out there. `` that all we have to do. I wish. It has to be

:09:13. > :09:18.said, there wasn't a lot of opposition in the room. 45 people

:09:19. > :09:25.turned up, 41 said they were voting yes. But there was some doubt. I am

:09:26. > :09:31.arguing with my conscience. My son says, you have to vote for it. But I

:09:32. > :09:39.think he thinks the ideal world, as a 16`year`old, but one day we will

:09:40. > :09:44.vote and the next day everything will be different, the Tories will

:09:45. > :09:50.be gone. But that his ideology and they should admire him for it. That

:09:51. > :09:54.I am still... I don't know what to do. After an intense couple of

:09:55. > :09:58.hours, and before she went to spread the word on neighbouring Bute, the

:09:59. > :10:00.organiser Jean Freeman spoke about the ethos behind her campaign group.

:10:01. > :10:04.What sort of women are you trying to attract? All women. Whether young or

:10:05. > :10:09.old, whether they are employed or not. As we saw from this morning,

:10:10. > :10:11.that is precisely the group we do attract. The brilliant thing about

:10:12. > :10:16.it is when you create the opportunity women are interested in

:10:17. > :10:20.this debate. They are interested in politics. They have ideas and

:10:21. > :10:22.opinions. You just need to give them the space and room to voice goes.

:10:23. > :10:26.Let's be honest, you were preaching to the converted. There were only

:10:27. > :10:33.four women in a packed room who haven't yet made up their minds. It

:10:34. > :10:39.is still important for us to come together because we know it is the

:10:40. > :10:42.case that the majority of women in Scotland are still undecided. It is

:10:43. > :10:45.our job to create the space and have those conversations with women, so

:10:46. > :10:52.that they can make their own minds up when it comes to September.

:10:53. > :10:58.I couldn't help but be disappointed that the event had been more than

:10:59. > :11:05.independence rally than an exchange of opinions. When women for

:11:06. > :11:08.independence was set up, it was billed as the space for women to

:11:09. > :11:13.talk without fear of being shunted down by men. What would have been

:11:14. > :11:22.the response to a woman who offered a steering defence of the union? We

:11:23. > :11:29.will never know. We do know there are many women who want to stay part

:11:30. > :11:34.of the UK. Indeed, new role to our at the forefront of their parties'

:11:35. > :11:37.respective campaigns. Labour's member and Ruth Davidson for the

:11:38. > :11:42.Conservatives. The UK belongs to all of us. We built it together, we

:11:43. > :11:48.traded together, we fought together, we lived together, we

:11:49. > :11:52.loved together, we settled together, we build our lives together. This

:11:53. > :11:56.land is our land and we will allow do want to break it apart. I didn't

:11:57. > :12:00.come into politics to debate the Constitution. I came into politics

:12:01. > :12:09.to end poverty. Today... (APPLAUSE)

:12:10. > :12:17.Women's roles in society, in the work base and in the home have

:12:18. > :12:24.changed enormously over the decades. So, isn't it hypocritical for us to

:12:25. > :12:29.rage for equal billing with men, but men say we will not sully our hands

:12:30. > :12:34.with things like the referendum, that our conflict confusing? One

:12:35. > :12:40.thing has remained constant in these changing times. Politics is a rough,

:12:41. > :12:44.tough and dirty game. And there are few tougher players than the leader

:12:45. > :12:51.of the SNP. That came up on my travels. I heard him make a comment

:12:52. > :12:56.the other day that someone was voting for a certain person. Who was

:12:57. > :13:05.at? I won't say. And it was just because they couldn't stand him.

:13:06. > :13:09.Alex Salmond is... I don't know too much about him. To the leaders

:13:10. > :13:11.matter? Now for a look at the weather.

:13:12. > :13:18.I think so. Sometimes I think Alex Salmond is on an ego trip. I do like

:13:19. > :13:23.Nicola Sturgeon? I feel sorry for her. Really? Absolutely sorry for

:13:24. > :13:29.her. More women are listening to what he says than previously. It

:13:30. > :13:33.will be didn't bother about politics or politicians. They know there is

:13:34. > :13:41.an important vote coming up and so they are listening to him. ``

:13:42. > :13:46.listening to him, who previously didn't bother about politics. He

:13:47. > :13:52.goes through everybody fast. Hard. Takes no prisoners. I wouldn't say

:13:53. > :13:55.that Wendy Alexander is the only problem the Labour Party has had a

:13:56. > :14:02.think, quite convincingly after the last few days, we can decide that

:14:03. > :14:09.she is not the answer. The first minister does not live in the real

:14:10. > :14:13.world! Order! So much for the quality debate... This first

:14:14. > :14:22.minister is staying in office and I don't know about the fate of the

:14:23. > :14:29.Prime Minister! I think women don't like that. They like a bit of

:14:30. > :14:34.contemplation. They like the eye but to get a chance of being answered.

:14:35. > :14:39.Alex gives the impression that is swiped out of the road. Women don't

:14:40. > :14:44.like that. The question regarding the Alex Salmond effect on women

:14:45. > :14:52.voters has become a big enough issue to have been taken on by the Ulster

:14:53. > :14:55.is. There is as yet it `` there is a suggestion that Alex Salmond is less

:14:56. > :15:00.popular amongst women than men. Is that true? They're certainly does

:15:01. > :15:05.seem to be a bit of a women problem for Alex Salmond, in terms of PE is

:15:06. > :15:10.less popular amongst women than men. In 2011, after the Scottish

:15:11. > :15:14.elections in 2000, we asked people to rate all party leaders and Alex

:15:15. > :15:20.Salmond was rated as seven or more out of ten, pretty good, why 60% of

:15:21. > :15:26.net but only 43% of women. That said, he is remarkably popular as a

:15:27. > :15:31.leader amongst both men and women, competitive most other party

:15:32. > :15:37.leaders, certainly compared with the Westminster party leaders. In terms

:15:38. > :15:39.of using that as an explanation why women might be less likely to

:15:40. > :15:44.support independence, because we can go back and look at support for

:15:45. > :15:48.independence back to 1999, we can look at the period between 2000 and

:15:49. > :15:51.2004. You still find a gap of 6% or seven percentage points in minute ``

:15:52. > :16:05.in women and men's support for independence. So if Alex Salmond is

:16:06. > :16:08.not a statistical deterrent, why has he played a central role in the

:16:09. > :16:13.campaign? You are fronting this campaign, was that a conscious

:16:14. > :16:21.decision to attract the female vote? No. I am the Deputy leader of

:16:22. > :16:26.the SNP and that is why I am in the position I am. It is not as easy as

:16:27. > :16:30.putting a woman in charge of the campaign and suddenly they will

:16:31. > :16:34.flock to support independence. It is much more complicated than that. I

:16:35. > :16:50.map what about the literature coming to people's doors. ``? They have

:16:51. > :16:55.your wedding picture, you in the kitchen... Come on. If that is not a

:16:56. > :17:01.direct pitch to women than I do not know what is. That must be one of

:17:02. > :17:12.the only pictures of me in a kitchen that exists. You are appealing to

:17:13. > :17:17.Scotland's's women? Unless we can persuade a majority of women then we

:17:18. > :17:23.will not win the referendum. If we can do that then we will win because

:17:24. > :17:28.I the time we have done that, we will have persuaded a majority of

:17:29. > :17:34.men. Our pitch is not exclusively to women. That would be a silly thing

:17:35. > :17:42.to do but if we can make it as appealing to women and we will have

:17:43. > :17:52.cracked the referendum. Is it wrong to see her as a kind of balance to

:17:53. > :17:56.Alex Salmond? This journalist is one of the nation's most prominent

:17:57. > :18:03.feminist campaigners and recently announced her intention to vote"

:18:04. > :18:10.Yes" And is keeping a close eye on the campaign. In terms of looking at

:18:11. > :18:16.the female vote, do you think it was intentional to place a woman at the

:18:17. > :18:25.front of the campaign? I am not sure about that. It looked like a fairly

:18:26. > :18:30.obvious choice. I remember people being surprised that it was not just

:18:31. > :18:34.Alex. She is a figure in her own right who has grown over time. I

:18:35. > :18:40.suppose you could argue that they could have given a different figure

:18:41. > :18:45.room for maneuver if they had chosen differently but I suppose that is

:18:46. > :18:49.ancient history now. They would be relatively unrecognized as well. At

:18:50. > :18:52.least here we have a recognisable woman with a title within the

:18:53. > :18:59.campaign which should help somewhat. If there is a strategy

:19:00. > :19:07.among this campaign to sit back and watch the underdog bring the battle

:19:08. > :19:13.to them, then it you cannot see it. But they are dismissive of the idea

:19:14. > :19:19.that their opponents know what women want. I think they have the idea

:19:20. > :19:25.that cohorts of people will respond in specific ways. Some will respond

:19:26. > :19:31.to the Corporation 's tax and others to other things. They have a notion

:19:32. > :19:36.of what women respond to which I'm quite uncomfortable with. I do not

:19:37. > :19:43.believe that you can simply identify one thing that women will respond

:19:44. > :19:48.to, like child care, and then determine whether or not they will

:19:49. > :19:53.want to live in the United Kingdom. The issues that matter to people

:19:54. > :19:57.matter to all people. I get offended when I am told that I should care

:19:58. > :20:06.about certain issues because I am a woman. That is not true. I think

:20:07. > :20:08.women do care about practical implications to the household and

:20:09. > :20:17.certainly when you look at the social attitudes survey, when they

:20:18. > :20:20.try to look at the gender imbalance, they try to look at the results of

:20:21. > :20:32.independence, what it would mean the on the votes more than men did. I

:20:33. > :20:37.think that is where the comes in. `` The Gap. Here is your classical

:20:38. > :20:43.female archetype. Women planning one of the biggest days of their lives.

:20:44. > :20:48.Who is thinking more about their future choices and effects than

:20:49. > :20:56.someone about to get married? Who is the bride`to`be? When is the

:20:57. > :21:10.wedding? The 28th of December. That is the one! Is that your mother? It

:21:11. > :21:18.is the stuff of the Better Together campaign's dreams. Women planning

:21:19. > :21:21.for union. The main reason we are here is that we are talking to

:21:22. > :21:27.people about the independence referendum. Have you made up your

:21:28. > :21:43.mind which way you will about red would you tell us? No, no and no. I

:21:44. > :21:52.have not date me `` made a decision yet. I'm don't have enough

:21:53. > :21:57.information to make a decision yet `` I don't. If you have bothers or

:21:58. > :22:05.brothers, would you say they have made up their mind? I don't think

:22:06. > :22:18.men think about it enough. I really don't! We are in a financially

:22:19. > :22:23.unstable time at the moment. We want more reassurances that we would be

:22:24. > :22:32.financially stable on our own. Red the currency thing worries me. If we

:22:33. > :22:42.had a safer currency things would be different. It will be something I

:22:43. > :22:49.will leave up to the last minute. If something sways me then that is what

:22:50. > :22:55.it has to be. I don't think it is a decision you want to take lightly.

:22:56. > :23:00.You want to research it and there is no trial run after all. You cannot

:23:01. > :23:09.go back. You cannot take this decision lightly. Like any of these

:23:10. > :23:13.conversations, there are no easy answers. There is one thing that

:23:14. > :23:17.women want. I am certainly sensing reluctance among many Scottish women

:23:18. > :23:22.to make the final commitment until they know what it will mean. The

:23:23. > :23:29.metaphor is not exactly subtle. It is about unions and eight pooling of

:23:30. > :23:32.resources. Currently both campaigns are down on bended knee and as far

:23:33. > :23:38.as the women we have spoken to are concerned, making this momentous

:23:39. > :23:46.decision is something they will not be rushed into deciding on. That has

:23:47. > :23:50.been a consistent message for many of the women I have met on my

:23:51. > :23:55.travels. A are holding back on making a decision and we want to

:23:56. > :24:02.know more about the potential consequences of Scotland becoming

:24:03. > :24:07.independent. It is women that keep a household together when they are

:24:08. > :24:11.often left alone to do so. It is women that have to be hardheaded

:24:12. > :24:14.about the choices you make on a daily basis and I think they are

:24:15. > :24:20.being hardheaded and unemotional about this. They want to look quite

:24:21. > :24:29.carefully at which way things will go. I think sometimes that women

:24:30. > :24:35.worry more and, let's face it, this whole situation is not predictable.

:24:36. > :24:41.Perhaps that is what it all boils down to. Women taking a practical

:24:42. > :24:45.view. We want answers. It is the head and not the heart that wins

:24:46. > :24:53.out. Perhaps we are not the emotional creatures we are made out

:24:54. > :24:56.to be. We are not risk`averse, but we are risk aware. I will be

:24:57. > :25:02.covering the rest of the referendum from the studios. The choice will

:25:03. > :25:07.continue to dominate the news agenda and working out what women want will

:25:08. > :25:12.be vital. What I have discovered is that women's reluctance to make up

:25:13. > :25:18.their minds is not because they do not know the facts or think that it

:25:19. > :25:21.is a man's world. It is not based on an irrational fear of the unknown

:25:22. > :25:27.but to be very rational reaction to a set of wildly different scenarios

:25:28. > :25:34.and their consequences. What do women want? They make up more than

:25:35. > :25:38.50% of the electorate so besides that wins this crucial campaign will

:25:39. > :25:41.have to know the answer to that and at least look like they can

:25:42. > :26:12.deliver. Temperatures through the course of

:26:13. > :26:14.the weekend will not be Temperatures through the course of

:26:15. > :26:15.the weekend will not too