Blethering Referendum - Part 2

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0:00:10 > 0:00:12All this blethering on about independence -

0:00:12 > 0:00:16has anyone stopped to think about what independence actually means?

0:00:16 > 0:00:18As a concept?

0:00:18 > 0:00:22I mean, look at me, right - I'm an independent kind of guy.

0:00:22 > 0:00:25- I live my own life, I play by my own...- Daaaad!

0:00:25 > 0:00:28..rules. You see, thing is, independence is,

0:00:28 > 0:00:30is more of a state of mind than anything else.

0:00:30 > 0:00:32It's a personal thing.

0:00:32 > 0:00:34It's not about what you vote for,

0:00:34 > 0:00:37- it's about who you are as a person, it's...- Dad!

0:00:37 > 0:00:38Daddy's working here!

0:00:41 > 0:00:45As I was saying, independence goes to the very heart of who we are.

0:00:45 > 0:00:46I have a singular personality.

0:00:46 > 0:00:50Unique. Very much independent from everyone else.

0:00:50 > 0:00:52And in many ways that's like Scotland.

0:00:52 > 0:00:54It has its own unique culture.

0:00:54 > 0:00:57I mean, we've even got our own egg, the Scotch egg.

0:00:57 > 0:00:59How many countries can claim their own egg?

0:00:59 > 0:01:03- It was invented in London, Dad. - OK, bad example.

0:01:03 > 0:01:08But what could be more Scottish than sweet, sweet Buckfast.

0:01:08 > 0:01:10It's brewed in Devon, actually.

0:01:13 > 0:01:17Who better to present a programme about issues of possible

0:01:17 > 0:01:19independence than an independent guy like me?

0:01:19 > 0:01:22- I own my own house. - The bank owns the house.

0:01:22 > 0:01:26True, but I am an actor. A one-man show.

0:01:26 > 0:01:29Weaving my way from job to job like a troubadour.

0:01:29 > 0:01:31Completely unreliant on anyone.

0:01:31 > 0:01:34Apart from the people that write your lines, pick the costume,

0:01:34 > 0:01:35do your hair and make-up.

0:01:35 > 0:01:39OK, yes, but as an individual, as a fully-grown adult man,

0:01:39 > 0:01:41it's me and me alone...

0:01:41 > 0:01:44Will all this chat incorporate you putting the bins out?

0:01:46 > 0:01:49So who better than me to find out all the answers you need to know

0:01:49 > 0:01:54before we vote in this referendum for Scottish independence?

0:01:54 > 0:01:57And I'm not putting the bins out, by the way.

0:01:57 > 0:02:00Because I'm a maverick and I live by my own rules.

0:02:01 > 0:02:03Independence means different things

0:02:03 > 0:02:05for different people all over the world.

0:02:05 > 0:02:09But I'm here to find out what it would mean for Scotland.

0:02:09 > 0:02:12Can someone help me here, please?

0:02:12 > 0:02:16So come with me as I find out what independence is really all about.

0:02:16 > 0:02:19CAR FAILS TO START

0:02:19 > 0:02:23MUSIC: "National Express" by The Divine Comedy

0:02:37 > 0:02:41If Scotland does decide to go it alone, will we get to keep these?

0:02:41 > 0:02:43Or will George Osborne ask for all his pounds back?

0:02:43 > 0:02:47And if he does, what will Scottish money look like?

0:02:47 > 0:02:50Get a load of this - the Smeato.

0:02:50 > 0:02:54Aye, that's right, the currency that will set about you.

0:02:54 > 0:02:57Finally, the world's most violent baggage handler

0:02:57 > 0:02:58given the recognition he deserves.

0:02:58 > 0:03:00And why should it be a tenner?

0:03:00 > 0:03:03Nothing ever actually costs a tenner, does it? Why not 9.95?

0:03:03 > 0:03:07Less change to weigh you down. I think it's a winner.

0:03:07 > 0:03:11Imagine at Greggs - "Aye, that's a Smeato in, Janice."

0:03:11 > 0:03:14But this is my favourite - the Murray.

0:03:14 > 0:03:16# Hey there Andy Murray

0:03:16 > 0:03:19# I'd love to see you play the tennis... #

0:03:20 > 0:03:22Do you take Murrays, mate?

0:03:24 > 0:03:26That's a picture of Andy Murray on a napkin!

0:03:29 > 0:03:31Who the hell are you?

0:03:31 > 0:03:34I'm Fergus Muirhead. I'm a money expert

0:03:34 > 0:03:37and I help people manage their money effectively and I thought that

0:03:37 > 0:03:39maybe if we shared this cab, we could save a couple of quid each.

0:03:39 > 0:03:43OK. Seeing as you're here, do you mind answering a few questions?

0:03:43 > 0:03:45- OK, go on.- So, Fergus. Fergus?

0:03:45 > 0:03:48- Fergus, yes.- Fergus, if this cabbie isn't going to take my Murray,

0:03:48 > 0:03:51what is he going to take from me if Scotland gets independence?

0:03:51 > 0:03:54What happens to the pound is one of the most important questions.

0:03:54 > 0:03:57The Scottish government and the Yes campaign are saying that

0:03:57 > 0:03:59everything will be fine and we'll just carry on as we are.

0:03:59 > 0:04:02If you listen to the UK government,

0:04:02 > 0:04:04they'll tell you it's not quite as clear cut as that.

0:04:04 > 0:04:07Right, so it's a Yes and a No, which makes it a maybe.

0:04:07 > 0:04:08It's a definite maybe.

0:04:08 > 0:04:11Let's make things a little simpler for me to understand.

0:04:11 > 0:04:13In an independent Scotland,

0:04:13 > 0:04:17what would be the advantages or disadvantages of using this?

0:04:17 > 0:04:19The Scottish tenner?

0:04:19 > 0:04:22Well, the Scottish government will say that we can carry on using

0:04:22 > 0:04:23the Scottish ten pound note,

0:04:23 > 0:04:26because it's guaranteed by the Bank of England

0:04:26 > 0:04:29but George Osborne has said that's not necessarily

0:04:29 > 0:04:33the case and there may well be a ban on printing these notes in future.

0:04:33 > 0:04:34Well, what about one of these?

0:04:34 > 0:04:38It's a rare beast, the English tenner.

0:04:38 > 0:04:41We could certainly continue to use them

0:04:41 > 0:04:44but as with the Scottish notes we looked at, it all depends

0:04:44 > 0:04:48on what kind of negotiation takes place with Westminster and whether

0:04:48 > 0:04:51they're happy to get involved in some sort of currency union with us.

0:04:51 > 0:04:55OK. What about this scenario -

0:04:55 > 0:04:57the euro?

0:04:57 > 0:05:00Yeah, we'd certainly be able to use the euro.

0:05:00 > 0:05:02But there's a lot of talk about whether the euro

0:05:02 > 0:05:03is the most stable currency at the moment

0:05:03 > 0:05:06and we need to consider whether it would be the best thing for us,

0:05:06 > 0:05:08as a newly independent country,

0:05:08 > 0:05:11to join a currency that is not perhaps as stable as it could be.

0:05:11 > 0:05:13What about this one?

0:05:13 > 0:05:17It's still a working model, obviously. Do you know who that is?

0:05:17 > 0:05:20- It's Leo Sayer. - No, it's Andy Murray.

0:05:20 > 0:05:23Could we possibly use a brand-new currency like that?

0:05:23 > 0:05:26There's no reason why we shouldn't start with a brand-new currency.

0:05:26 > 0:05:29Might make it slightly more difficult in the early days to trade

0:05:29 > 0:05:31with neighbours and there's always the question of

0:05:31 > 0:05:34whether the currency will be too tied to oil, and if the price

0:05:34 > 0:05:36of oil fluctuates, then it might make

0:05:36 > 0:05:37the value of the currency fluctuate.

0:05:37 > 0:05:40Would it make a difference if it was Marti Pellow?

0:05:40 > 0:05:42No.

0:05:42 > 0:05:45So if you were a betting man, what currency would you be using?

0:05:45 > 0:05:47I would bet with sterling to start with

0:05:47 > 0:05:49and then possibly a move to the euro.

0:05:49 > 0:05:51That's me here now, driver, thanks.

0:05:51 > 0:05:56# Money, money, money, money money... #

0:05:56 > 0:05:58That's £9.95, please.

0:05:58 > 0:06:02Um, all I've got is this English tenner.

0:06:02 > 0:06:04What is that? Monopoly money?

0:06:07 > 0:06:11MUSIC: "Maggie May" by Rod Stewart

0:06:13 > 0:06:16So...my mate has a stag night.

0:06:16 > 0:06:17His mate comes up from Manchester.

0:06:17 > 0:06:19His name's Craig. I think.

0:06:19 > 0:06:22I offer him my sofa for the night.

0:06:22 > 0:06:25That was three months ago. He's still here.

0:06:25 > 0:06:27He won't take my subtle hints to leave.

0:06:30 > 0:06:32He's wearing my pants!

0:06:32 > 0:06:34What happens if we vote yes and he's still here?

0:06:34 > 0:06:35He'll be in a foreign country,

0:06:35 > 0:06:38and I'm pretty sure he doesn't have his passport.

0:06:38 > 0:06:41Will I be accused of harbouring an illegal English immigrant?

0:06:42 > 0:06:44And that got me thinking about my cousin.

0:06:44 > 0:06:47He was born here, in Scotland, but he moved to Wolverhampton

0:06:47 > 0:06:49when he was six months old. Not by choice -

0:06:49 > 0:06:52you don't move to Wolverhampton by choice -

0:06:52 > 0:06:54but he's lived there ever since.

0:06:54 > 0:06:57Last 30 years. What happens to him?

0:06:57 > 0:06:58Has anyone really thought about

0:06:58 > 0:07:01what independence will do to people's sense of identity?

0:07:01 > 0:07:03I mean, we're all different, after all.

0:07:03 > 0:07:05- I was born in England myself. - MUMBLES:- True story.

0:07:05 > 0:07:09So I'm off to see someone who can help me with these questions.

0:07:11 > 0:07:15So, Professor Wright, I'm interested in the question of citizenship

0:07:15 > 0:07:18and identity in the event of an independent Scotland.

0:07:18 > 0:07:21For example, what happens to someone from England who's been

0:07:21 > 0:07:24living in Scotland for some time - let's say they've overstayed

0:07:24 > 0:07:26their welcome and they've eaten all of my Muller Fruit Corners.

0:07:26 > 0:07:29Now, rather than talk in abstract terms, I'd like to

0:07:29 > 0:07:31personalise this, so do you mind if I bring them into the room?

0:07:31 > 0:07:33Is that OK?

0:07:36 > 0:07:40- BLACK COUNTRY ACCENT:- All right? - MANCHESTER ACCENT:- All right, our kid?

0:07:40 > 0:07:42Robert, can you help by explaining the situation

0:07:42 > 0:07:46to Kulvinder and Craig? Let's start with Kulvinder.

0:07:46 > 0:07:49I'm really worried about the independence referendum

0:07:49 > 0:07:52and how it's going to affect me.

0:07:52 > 0:07:54OK, your cousin Kulvinder, it's clear cut.

0:07:54 > 0:07:56The White Paper says explicitly

0:07:56 > 0:07:57that if you are born in Scotland

0:07:57 > 0:07:59you are entitled to Scottish citizenship

0:07:59 > 0:08:02and of course you're entitled to live, work and stay in Scotland.

0:08:02 > 0:08:05But I don't want to be Scottish! I'm from Wolverhampton!

0:08:05 > 0:08:08I'm really worried too, man, and if me mam don't let me

0:08:08 > 0:08:11in the house before September I'll still be on this bloke's sofa.

0:08:11 > 0:08:13Am I going to wake up Scottish?

0:08:13 > 0:08:15It's a bit more complicated.

0:08:15 > 0:08:17To get Scottish citizenship you have to

0:08:17 > 0:08:20be habitually resident in the country for a given period of time,

0:08:20 > 0:08:23and as of today we don't know what this period of time will be.

0:08:23 > 0:08:27This will be when the immigration system is up and running

0:08:27 > 0:08:29in an independent Scotland. They'll have to square that

0:08:29 > 0:08:32with European law, they'll have to square that with Scottish law,

0:08:32 > 0:08:35and they will have to pick this number. This kind of magic number,

0:08:35 > 0:08:37and so we'll have to wait and see. But the idea being is

0:08:37 > 0:08:40the longer you've been in Scotland makes it easier for you

0:08:40 > 0:08:43- to get Scottish citizenship. - OK, so just to sum up.

0:08:43 > 0:08:44We've got this guy here, who's English,

0:08:44 > 0:08:48but he's been in Scotland for, well, frankly longer than I care for,

0:08:48 > 0:08:51and we've got this guy here born in Scotland,

0:08:51 > 0:08:54but has spent most of his time in Wolverhampton,

0:08:54 > 0:08:57and then there's me who was actually born in London.

0:08:57 > 0:08:58No, I was.

0:08:58 > 0:09:01But I have been in Scotland for the last 40 years.

0:09:01 > 0:09:05So is it possible to sum up all those scenarios

0:09:05 > 0:09:07in maybe one sort of sound bite?

0:09:07 > 0:09:11There is a chance that all three of you will be automatically Scottish.

0:09:14 > 0:09:17- ALL:- Automatically Scottish?

0:09:18 > 0:09:21Not all the rules have been defined precisely

0:09:21 > 0:09:25and you need to see what happens at independence, and how, you know,

0:09:25 > 0:09:27what these promises are in the White Paper,

0:09:27 > 0:09:30- how they are put into practice. - I've got another cousin...

0:09:30 > 0:09:32I've got loads of cousins, I'm Asian,

0:09:32 > 0:09:33but this is my American cousin.

0:09:33 > 0:09:36You don't mind if I just get him, yeah?

0:09:37 > 0:09:38He's American, like I say,

0:09:38 > 0:09:43- but he does come over every year with the family. - BAGPIPES TUNING UP

0:09:43 > 0:09:47- AMERICAN ACCENT:- Yeah! My great grandfather was from Fal-kirk!

0:09:47 > 0:09:50Jings, cry-vens and help my Bo-ab!

0:09:50 > 0:09:54Yeah! Can I be Scottish, ya bass!

0:09:54 > 0:09:55Not automatically.

0:09:55 > 0:09:58The fact that he has a Scottish ancestry, Scottish roots,

0:09:58 > 0:10:01a Scottish grandfather, you know, is something they'd look on favourably.

0:10:01 > 0:10:05But he will have to go through the system as someone immigrating

0:10:05 > 0:10:08from some other country, India or wherever.

0:10:08 > 0:10:11What - he'll actually have to take a citizenship test?

0:10:11 > 0:10:15My expectation is yes, that he will have to do a citizenship test

0:10:15 > 0:10:17as well as a language test at the minimum.

0:10:17 > 0:10:19Citizenship test?

0:10:19 > 0:10:22PLAYS BAGPIPES BADLY

0:10:22 > 0:10:26I will now furnish you with the answers. Question one was,

0:10:26 > 0:10:27is juice fizzy?

0:10:27 > 0:10:29The answer is,

0:10:29 > 0:10:31in Scotland, yes.

0:10:31 > 0:10:33At all times.

0:10:33 > 0:10:37Question two was, is ginger - A, a root,

0:10:37 > 0:10:42B, a carbonated drink, C, an insult?

0:10:42 > 0:10:44And the answer is all of the above.

0:10:44 > 0:10:47BLAST OF BAGPIPES

0:10:47 > 0:10:50Question 3 was how many Proclaimers are there?

0:10:50 > 0:10:52I'm afraid this is a trick question.

0:10:52 > 0:10:56There are in fact 93.

0:10:56 > 0:10:58They are bred in pods underneath Arthur's Seat

0:10:58 > 0:11:01in order to cope with demand at Hogmanay.

0:11:03 > 0:11:06MUSIC: "D.I.V.O.R.C.E." by Billy Connolly.

0:11:06 > 0:11:10# He caused me and my wife to have a big fight

0:11:10 > 0:11:13# And then both of them bit me

0:11:14 > 0:11:22# And that's why I am going to get a D-I-V-O-R-C-E... #

0:11:27 > 0:11:29This is my thinkspace.

0:11:29 > 0:11:31You might pronounce it "garage".

0:11:31 > 0:11:34It's where I come to work out my decision on the referendum.

0:11:34 > 0:11:38Imagine this... is a map of the United Kingdom.

0:11:38 > 0:11:40Which in many ways it is.

0:11:40 > 0:11:44I've created Britain's major assets and landmarks.

0:11:44 > 0:11:47So for example we've got Tower Bridge there,

0:11:47 > 0:11:51we've got the Millennium Centre in Cardiff,

0:11:51 > 0:11:55we've got the Horlicks factory in Slough,

0:11:55 > 0:11:58erm, we've got the, that trumpet thing, you know the trumpet thing

0:11:58 > 0:12:01that looks like the trumpet out of Teletubbies just off the M8? That.

0:12:01 > 0:12:06If Scotland gets independence, and it's handled like a divorce -

0:12:06 > 0:12:08a good divorce - who gets what?

0:12:08 > 0:12:11For example, we provided oil,

0:12:11 > 0:12:14the Tunnock's teacake,

0:12:14 > 0:12:16and Chris Hoy's thighs.

0:12:16 > 0:12:19England has given us Bruce Forsyth,

0:12:19 > 0:12:22the steam train and the Cornish pasty.

0:12:22 > 0:12:24Gets a bit stale after a while,

0:12:24 > 0:12:26but to be fair he is 193.

0:12:26 > 0:12:29Northern Ireland has given us the Titanic,

0:12:29 > 0:12:32the DeLorean and the George Best.

0:12:32 > 0:12:34And Wales has given us

0:12:34 > 0:12:36cheese on toast.

0:12:36 > 0:12:39So yes, Britain has given us a lot,

0:12:39 > 0:12:42but we've given them a lot too. How do you split it up?

0:12:42 > 0:12:45It's going to be impossible, isn't it?

0:12:45 > 0:12:48Well, I think we should swap things like for like.

0:12:48 > 0:12:51I had a lovely week in Dawlish, in Devon, me and the wife and kids.

0:12:51 > 0:12:54Had a lovely time at the House of Marbles.

0:12:54 > 0:12:55So I'd like to have that.

0:12:55 > 0:13:00And in return they can have... Blair Drummond Safari Park.

0:13:00 > 0:13:02Sorry, I'm a bit allergic to giraffes.

0:13:02 > 0:13:06But it's an equally good day out. Great sea lions. Smashing cafe.

0:13:06 > 0:13:09And we should celebrate each other's history as well,

0:13:09 > 0:13:10because it is a shared history, isn't it?

0:13:10 > 0:13:14So we could have the Imperial War Museum, Manchester.

0:13:14 > 0:13:17Oh! We'll take the London one as well.

0:13:17 > 0:13:20And they could have the... the Bannockburn Heritage Centre.

0:13:20 > 0:13:22We'll take Morrissey.

0:13:22 > 0:13:25And er, they can have the Scottish equivalent of Morrissey...

0:13:25 > 0:13:28The Scottish equivalent of Morrissey, the Scottish...

0:13:28 > 0:13:30Dougie Vipond!

0:13:31 > 0:13:34I like Manchester, I'd quite like to take Manchester.

0:13:34 > 0:13:36Not Eccles, I had diarrhoea there once.

0:13:36 > 0:13:40But if we take Manchester then Morrissey doesn't have to move.

0:13:40 > 0:13:42And if we give them Elderslie,

0:13:42 > 0:13:46then Dougie Vipond doesn't have to move. Oh, this is great!

0:13:46 > 0:13:48This is totally going to work!

0:13:48 > 0:13:50I just need to check it with an expert. Which one, though?

0:13:53 > 0:13:55So, Professor Bell,

0:13:55 > 0:13:56what I'm thinking is...

0:13:56 > 0:13:59we take Morrissey and then I thought, what the hell,

0:13:59 > 0:14:00take Manchester as well.

0:14:00 > 0:14:03Not Eccles though. I had diarrhoea there once.

0:14:03 > 0:14:05What do you think, would that work?

0:14:05 > 0:14:06- No.- Oh.

0:14:06 > 0:14:08But you make an important point.

0:14:08 > 0:14:11We've been together for 300 years,

0:14:11 > 0:14:14but we didn't make a prenuptial agreement.

0:14:14 > 0:14:19There's going to have to be a big negotiation after independence.

0:14:19 > 0:14:22And of course we're going to need some institutions

0:14:22 > 0:14:24that we don't have at the minute.

0:14:24 > 0:14:26So what, give me some examples, what are we talking about here?

0:14:26 > 0:14:29Well, what about the British Army?

0:14:29 > 0:14:33We would have to create our own army in Scotland.

0:14:33 > 0:14:36- OK, there you go, so. - Or what about the Bank of England?

0:14:36 > 0:14:39- But that's in England. - Well, although it's in England,

0:14:39 > 0:14:42Scottish taxes have contributed to it over the years

0:14:42 > 0:14:44and there's a lot more where that came from.

0:14:44 > 0:14:47You're going to need a passport office.

0:14:47 > 0:14:51Or, um, a new tax office.

0:14:51 > 0:14:56DVLA, low pay commission, Food Standards Agency, HMRC...

0:14:56 > 0:14:58What about Met Office?

0:15:02 > 0:15:06And what about the Export Credit Guarantee Advisory Council?

0:15:06 > 0:15:08HE SIGHS

0:15:11 > 0:15:13So all of this will have to be negotiated for

0:15:13 > 0:15:16- if Scotland gets independence? - I think so.

0:15:16 > 0:15:20It will take some time, but at the end of the day,

0:15:20 > 0:15:22they may better reflect Scotland's needs.

0:15:32 > 0:15:34Have you noticed politicians

0:15:34 > 0:15:36blethering on about something called the Barnett formula?

0:15:36 > 0:15:39They say it's something to do with the economy.

0:15:39 > 0:15:42I've never heard of this Barnett formula, and believe it or not,

0:15:42 > 0:15:44long before I was Scotland's top light entertainer,

0:15:44 > 0:15:47I used to be a mathematician. It's true.

0:15:47 > 0:15:50Remind me to explain the concept of countable infinities later.

0:15:50 > 0:15:55Point is, in all my years of maths not once did I come across

0:15:55 > 0:15:57anything called the Barnett formula.

0:15:57 > 0:16:00Sounds like a hair product to me.

0:16:01 > 0:16:05Which got me thinking, have you noticed?

0:16:05 > 0:16:09Scottish politicians... luxuriantly follicled, aren't they?

0:16:09 > 0:16:12Almost too luxuriantly follicled.

0:16:12 > 0:16:17Think about it, yeah? Humza Yousaf, full head of hair.

0:16:17 > 0:16:21And Kez Dugdale, Ruth Davidson of course, Annabel Goldie,

0:16:21 > 0:16:24Ian Grey, Joan McAlpine, Jamie Hepburn,

0:16:24 > 0:16:26Malcolm Chisholm - no, not him.

0:16:26 > 0:16:30But why should politicians have restricted access to good hair?

0:16:30 > 0:16:33I'm going undercover to blow this thing wide open.

0:16:34 > 0:16:37So it was a wash, cut and blow dry, was it, Mr Mayhew?

0:16:37 > 0:16:39Yes, that's right - Rifkind Mayhew.

0:16:39 > 0:16:42Where did you say you were the MSP for, again?

0:16:42 > 0:16:45Er, Strathmalithcumbo South.

0:16:45 > 0:16:47Yeah, cut and blow dry, please, and er, oh,

0:16:47 > 0:16:51can I have a bottle of Barnett formula ?

0:16:51 > 0:16:55- Sorry?- A bottle of Barnett formula.

0:16:56 > 0:16:58- Are you trying to hit on me?- No, no.

0:16:58 > 0:17:01I'm an MSP, you're a hairdresser,

0:17:01 > 0:17:05and I'm wanting a bottle of Barnett formula, please.

0:17:05 > 0:17:06Eh, it's nothing to do with hair?

0:17:06 > 0:17:10It's actually a mathematical formula used to work out the block grant

0:17:10 > 0:17:11Westminster allocates to England,

0:17:11 > 0:17:13Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland?

0:17:13 > 0:17:17- Really?- Yeah!

0:17:18 > 0:17:26Ahhh! So it's a grant, and a hair product!

0:17:26 > 0:17:31- MIMICKING SHAMPOO ADVERT:- 'For over 35 years, the central government

0:17:31 > 0:17:35'has been delivering block grants to the countries that make up the UK,

0:17:35 > 0:17:38'with the help of the Barnett formula.'

0:17:38 > 0:17:39So nourishing.

0:17:41 > 0:17:44'In 1978, Joel Barnett came up with a formula

0:17:44 > 0:17:47'for distributing the wealth of the union fairly

0:17:47 > 0:17:49'throughout the countries of the UK.'

0:17:49 > 0:17:52Fair distribution, from root to tip.

0:17:52 > 0:17:56'But because Joel's classic formula hasn't changed since 1978,

0:17:56 > 0:18:00'Scotland now gets more money than any other nation

0:18:00 > 0:18:02'except Northern Ireland.'

0:18:04 > 0:18:05Here comes the science!

0:18:05 > 0:18:09The formula is: appropriate population proportion

0:18:09 > 0:18:11multiplied by comparability percentage

0:18:11 > 0:18:14or the proportion delivered by the local authority

0:18:14 > 0:18:18multiplied by total change in the central government spend.

0:18:19 > 0:18:23The Barnett formula. I've never felt so special!

0:18:24 > 0:18:26So this Barnett formula, is it really all that?

0:18:26 > 0:18:28You'd better ask him.

0:18:28 > 0:18:31What, him? OK.

0:18:31 > 0:18:35So I understand you're the man to ask about the Barnett formula.

0:18:35 > 0:18:37How does it make our politicians' hair so thick?

0:18:37 > 0:18:40I think what Sanjeev means to ask, Professor Curtice,

0:18:40 > 0:18:42is how is the independence referendum

0:18:42 > 0:18:44going to affect the Barnett formula?

0:18:44 > 0:18:46Well, if we vote no, according to the coalition government

0:18:46 > 0:18:49there won't be any change, Barnett remains in existence.

0:18:49 > 0:18:52Mind you, the Nationalists are trying to cast some doubt on that

0:18:52 > 0:18:57because a result of changes in the law that are already in train,

0:18:57 > 0:19:01in the near future, for pretty much every five pounds

0:19:01 > 0:19:03that the Scottish Parliament wants to spend,

0:19:03 > 0:19:06it's going to have to raise a pound itself out of taxes.

0:19:06 > 0:19:08Most of the income tax north of the border.

0:19:08 > 0:19:11And to that extent at least the Barnett formula

0:19:11 > 0:19:13is going to become less important anyway.

0:19:13 > 0:19:14All right, I think I get it.

0:19:14 > 0:19:18So if Scotland gets independence, that'll mean less protection.

0:19:18 > 0:19:22Certainly according to some people it will be taking a bit of a risk.

0:19:22 > 0:19:23They say, "You know what?

0:19:23 > 0:19:27"Scotland's going to be £3, £4 billion a year in the red

0:19:27 > 0:19:29"if it goes independent." Others say, "No, no, no, no,

0:19:29 > 0:19:33"the oil revenue will keep coming in, Scotland's economy will prosper

0:19:33 > 0:19:34"and the Scottish Government

0:19:34 > 0:19:37"will have plenty of money to spend on good public services."

0:19:37 > 0:19:40Mind you, if Scotland decides to remain in the union,

0:19:40 > 0:19:43well, then what we'll find is that actually the amount of money

0:19:43 > 0:19:47that Scotland has to spend will still depend to a large amount

0:19:47 > 0:19:50on decisions made about how much money to spend in England,

0:19:50 > 0:19:53and for some people at least that's a bit of a disadvantage too.

0:19:53 > 0:19:56So it's a question of which risk you prefer, whether you vote yes or no.

0:19:56 > 0:19:58You're absolutely spot-on.

0:19:58 > 0:20:00Get you.

0:20:00 > 0:20:02OK, I think I understand now.

0:20:02 > 0:20:06The Barnett formula keeps Scotland in relatively good "condition",

0:20:06 > 0:20:08whilst an independent Scotland

0:20:08 > 0:20:11may or may not keep itself in a better "condition"

0:20:11 > 0:20:14depending on how much revenue it can raise.

0:20:14 > 0:20:18Got it in one. Can I get you a mousse?

0:20:18 > 0:20:21Oh, no, thanks, I've ordered a taxi.

0:20:21 > 0:20:25MUSIC: "Lust For Life" by Iggy Pop from the Trainspotting soundtrack

0:20:30 > 0:20:33Scotland has been the scene of many firsts.

0:20:33 > 0:20:34It was the first country

0:20:34 > 0:20:37ever to officially recognise the blood type B negative.

0:20:38 > 0:20:41And it was the first country ever to feature a micro-climate -

0:20:41 > 0:20:44that wee black cloud that used to hover over Oor Wullie's head

0:20:44 > 0:20:46when he was in a bad mood.

0:20:46 > 0:20:47HE PANTS

0:20:57 > 0:21:00What Scotland isn't the first to do, though,

0:21:00 > 0:21:02is have an independence debate. Since the millennium,

0:21:02 > 0:21:06we've witnessed the birth of the newly independent states

0:21:06 > 0:21:08of Kosovo,

0:21:08 > 0:21:09Montenegro,

0:21:09 > 0:21:11and East Timor.

0:21:13 > 0:21:15So if we vote yes, we're in good company.

0:21:15 > 0:21:19And what about the places that held referenda and voted no?

0:21:19 > 0:21:22The squabbling islands of St Kitts and Nevis, for example,

0:21:22 > 0:21:24decided they were better together.

0:21:24 > 0:21:28The French-speaking Canadian province of Quebec said "non",

0:21:28 > 0:21:30and Bermuda said...

0:21:30 > 0:21:31no.

0:21:31 > 0:21:35And yes, referenda IS the plural of referendum.

0:21:35 > 0:21:36Nice work, fella!

0:21:36 > 0:21:38I knew that was bugging you.

0:21:38 > 0:21:40Point is, we're not alone!

0:21:40 > 0:21:43So I thought it would be a good idea to speak to someone

0:21:43 > 0:21:45whose country has recently become independent.

0:21:46 > 0:21:49I say recently, I mean when he was a little boy.

0:21:51 > 0:21:54But this man, this expert can tell us

0:21:54 > 0:21:57how independence can affect a country's culture,

0:21:57 > 0:22:00its self-perception, and its sense of humour.

0:22:01 > 0:22:03It's Michael Redmond, everyone!

0:22:05 > 0:22:07I don't know if there's any Catholics in the audience.

0:22:07 > 0:22:10Obviously like most people from Ireland I was born a Catholic,

0:22:10 > 0:22:13which actually came as a shock to my parents who are both Protestants.

0:22:13 > 0:22:14ONE PERSON CLAPPING

0:22:14 > 0:22:17Well that's all from me, you've been a lovely audience.

0:22:17 > 0:22:19Thanks very much, good night, thank you.

0:22:19 > 0:22:21Self-styled top Irish comedian

0:22:21 > 0:22:23and constitutional expert Michael Redmond

0:22:23 > 0:22:28has agreed to throw some incisive light on Scottish independence

0:22:28 > 0:22:30from his uniquely informed perspective.

0:22:32 > 0:22:35So thanks for agreeing to talk to us about issues of independence.

0:22:35 > 0:22:39Now obviously you're from Ireland. What would you say were the main

0:22:39 > 0:22:42differences between the situation in Ireland and here in Scotland?

0:22:42 > 0:22:44I've been living in Scotland for about 15 years now

0:22:44 > 0:22:47and there's one thing I noticed you have in Scotland,

0:22:47 > 0:22:49- which we don't have in Ireland. - What's that?

0:22:49 > 0:22:51- Dundee.- Must write that down.

0:22:53 > 0:22:54That's two Es, by the way.

0:22:57 > 0:23:00So what about the whole border issue, what's it like actually

0:23:00 > 0:23:02having a border sort of in the middle of your country?

0:23:02 > 0:23:05I suppose the main issue between the Northern Ireland and the Republic,

0:23:05 > 0:23:08is that the border's used by people coming up from the Republic

0:23:08 > 0:23:10to buy cheaper booze in Northern Ireland...

0:23:10 > 0:23:12- Is that right? - ..than it is in the Republic.

0:23:12 > 0:23:15I don't know what the equivalent in Scotland would be.

0:23:15 > 0:23:18People, eh, coming up from England for tablet or something.

0:23:18 > 0:23:21Oh, so, people from England doing like a tablet run?

0:23:21 > 0:23:22Yeah. Tablet run, yeah.

0:23:22 > 0:23:24And then how does it work in reverse, would it be...?

0:23:24 > 0:23:27- You could do Kendal Mint Cake or something, I dunno.- Oh, right.

0:23:27 > 0:23:29So at the border you've got kind of like a big exchange of...

0:23:29 > 0:23:32sort of like the fudge wars.

0:23:32 > 0:23:33Fudge wars. Indeed. Yes.

0:23:33 > 0:23:37Fudge. It's very interesting, very interesting.

0:23:37 > 0:23:41So just drawing to a conclusion, what would you characterise as

0:23:41 > 0:23:42the main advantages and disadvantages

0:23:42 > 0:23:44of independence as you see it?

0:23:44 > 0:23:47I suppose the big advantage is that you are an independent country

0:23:47 > 0:23:48so you make your own decisions,

0:23:48 > 0:23:51you're not bound by any other country any more.

0:23:51 > 0:23:53The other side of it is that if something goes wrong,

0:23:53 > 0:23:55you can't blame England any more.

0:23:55 > 0:23:56Oh. Who do you blame?

0:23:56 > 0:23:58We don't like to mention the Congo.

0:23:58 > 0:24:06"Don't mention the Congo." OK.

0:24:09 > 0:24:13CHEESY MUSIC PLAYS

0:24:22 > 0:24:25Hello and welcome - or as they say in Holland, hello and welcome

0:24:25 > 0:24:29to "What will Scotland look like in five years' time?",

0:24:29 > 0:24:31the game show where we ask the question,

0:24:31 > 0:24:34what will Scotland look like in five years' time?

0:24:34 > 0:24:38Depending on whether our contestants vote...yes...

0:24:38 > 0:24:41or no!

0:24:42 > 0:24:45Well, there's no "What will Scotland look like in five years' time"

0:24:45 > 0:24:47without some contestants.

0:24:47 > 0:24:50Good job we've got some! Let's meet the first contestant.

0:24:50 > 0:24:52What's your name and where do you come from?

0:24:52 > 0:24:55My name's Kez Dugdale, I'm Labour MSP for Edinburgh and the Lothians.

0:24:55 > 0:24:59And which way are you voting this September? Is it...yes?

0:24:59 > 0:25:02Or no?

0:25:02 > 0:25:05Obviously I'm going to vote no, cos I think we're better together.

0:25:05 > 0:25:07Excellent stuff, it's what I like to hear.

0:25:07 > 0:25:09OK, let's meet our second contestant.

0:25:09 > 0:25:11What's your name and where do you come from?

0:25:11 > 0:25:12My name is Humza Yousaf

0:25:12 > 0:25:15and I'm a member of the Scottish Parliament for Glasgow.

0:25:15 > 0:25:18And how are you going to be voting? Is it going to be...yes...

0:25:18 > 0:25:20or no?

0:25:21 > 0:25:23I'll definitely be voting yes.

0:25:23 > 0:25:27OK. Let's do this quiz. As you know, the rules are simple.

0:25:27 > 0:25:30But complicated. But simple.

0:25:30 > 0:25:33You're basically battling against two things - A, the clock,

0:25:33 > 0:25:35and two, my boredom threshold.

0:25:35 > 0:25:38In this round you have 30 seconds to keep me interested

0:25:38 > 0:25:42in what you think Scotland will look like in five years' time,

0:25:42 > 0:25:45if we vote yes. And your time starts now.

0:25:45 > 0:25:48Well, Sanjeev, in five years' time we'll have a written constitution.

0:25:48 > 0:25:51That written constitution will protect us against nuclear weapons,

0:25:51 > 0:25:53it'll also protect us against the threat

0:25:53 > 0:25:57of being dragged into illegal wars. It means from cradle to grave,

0:25:57 > 0:26:00from young to old, we'll create a society where everybody...

0:26:00 > 0:26:03- Sanjeev!- ..everybody, has fair opportunities of work,

0:26:03 > 0:26:06and fair opportunities in the future.

0:26:06 > 0:26:08A more prosperous society, a greener society,

0:26:08 > 0:26:10and a wealthier society for us all.

0:26:10 > 0:26:12Sanjeev! Come on!

0:26:12 > 0:26:15And who knows, even in five years' time, perhaps, just maybe,

0:26:15 > 0:26:17Scotland will have qualified for the World Cup too.

0:26:17 > 0:26:18Go on, I'm right there!

0:26:18 > 0:26:21Well done. Nearly lost me for a microsecond there

0:26:21 > 0:26:25but you managed to reel me back in, great work.

0:26:25 > 0:26:28OK, well, let's see if you can match that as the no-sayer.

0:26:28 > 0:26:33So, if I vote no, what will Scotland look like in five years' time?

0:26:33 > 0:26:35Your time starts now.

0:26:35 > 0:26:38Scotland will be a fairer and more equal place

0:26:38 > 0:26:40because our parliament will get back to talking about the things

0:26:40 > 0:26:43that really matter, like jobs and opportunities for young people.

0:26:43 > 0:26:46Almost 100,000 young kids across Scotland are out of work and what

0:26:46 > 0:26:49are politicians doing? Arguing about the constitution.

0:26:49 > 0:26:51- Sanjeev!- We'll get back to talking about things

0:26:51 > 0:26:53- that really matter to families.- Go on, have a drink!

0:26:53 > 0:26:55How to get kids to college, to university,

0:26:55 > 0:26:58to start their own businesses, to set out in life and fulfil

0:26:58 > 0:27:00the ambitions that their parents and families have got for them.

0:27:00 > 0:27:03- Have a drink, you know you want to. - That's what matters to people.

0:27:03 > 0:27:05Brilliant, well done. You're both still in the game.

0:27:05 > 0:27:09OK, this time you have 20 seconds to tell us

0:27:09 > 0:27:12what you think Scotland will look like in 50 years' time.

0:27:12 > 0:27:15And your time starts now.

0:27:15 > 0:27:18Well, in 50 years' time Scotland will be the renewables

0:27:18 > 0:27:21- and clean energy hub of the entire world.- Sanjeev, here!

0:27:21 > 0:27:24Where the rest of the world is suffering from climate change

0:27:24 > 0:27:26- we'll lead in the innovation and technology boom.- Come on!

0:27:26 > 0:27:29That's where I believe Scotland will be in 50 years' time, and who knows,

0:27:29 > 0:27:32maybe the Krankies will still be doing panto too.

0:27:32 > 0:27:36OK, well, your turn to tell me in 20 seconds

0:27:36 > 0:27:40what you think Scotland will look like in 50 years' time.

0:27:40 > 0:27:42And remember, keep me interested!

0:27:42 > 0:27:45Together with the rest of the United Kingdom we can tap into

0:27:45 > 0:27:48our shared powers, opportunities and resources and be at

0:27:48 > 0:27:50the forefront of the global race for technology and skills.

0:27:50 > 0:27:53- Sanjeev!- We've got a very proud history of education and innovation

0:27:53 > 0:27:56- and we can be at the forefront of that again...- Have a drink!

0:27:56 > 0:27:59..to be part of the United Kingdom and tap into all that opportunity,

0:27:59 > 0:28:04and make sure we can realise the potential of our fantastic country.

0:28:04 > 0:28:06Ah. Brilliant. Well done.

0:28:06 > 0:28:09Yes has taken 50% of my attention span,

0:28:09 > 0:28:12and No has got the remaining 50% of my attention span.

0:28:12 > 0:28:15Which means it's a draw!

0:28:16 > 0:28:19So, can you come back next week?

0:28:19 > 0:28:22And the week after that? And the week after that?

0:28:22 > 0:28:24And the week after that?

0:28:24 > 0:28:26Good. You'll need to.

0:28:26 > 0:28:28And I hope they can keep your attention as well at home

0:28:28 > 0:28:31all the way to the big vote in September.

0:28:31 > 0:28:33Cheerie-byesie-osies.

0:28:33 > 0:28:36APPLAUSE AND CHEESY MUSIC

0:28:38 > 0:28:40MUSIC: "Year Of Decision" by The Three Degrees