0:00:02 > 0:00:09This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18There's going to be a revolution in this country.
0:00:18 > 0:00:22Isn't only me, there's millions like me - we've had enough,
0:00:22 > 0:00:26we've really had enough, and the politicians have got to realise
0:00:26 > 0:00:29that we won't stand it for ever.
0:00:30 > 0:00:35Summer 2011 and the austerity backlash had begun.
0:00:35 > 0:00:37Police are checking CCTV footage,
0:00:37 > 0:00:41after the civic centre in Stoke was attacked with paint.
0:00:41 > 0:00:45The authority says it expects the repair work to cost more than £20,000.
0:00:45 > 0:00:50Like hundreds of others councils Stoke on Trent have just made
0:00:50 > 0:00:52the biggest cuts in a generation.
0:00:52 > 0:00:54Is this democracy?
0:00:54 > 0:00:56The medicine was bitter.
0:00:56 > 0:00:58OK, colleagues, take the lady out.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00The mood one of resentment.
0:01:00 > 0:01:05We can't take much more, we just can't.
0:01:05 > 0:01:09The people's levels are being eroded
0:01:09 > 0:01:13and you can only take so many kicks in the teeth.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17The Prime Minister kept talking about an exciting new idea.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20DAVID CAMERON: 'We'll only really make things better when we all come together,
0:01:20 > 0:01:24'when we all work together, when we all join together,
0:01:24 > 0:01:27'when we work out that we're all in this together.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31'That's the change that our country needs. It's the Big Society.'
0:01:31 > 0:01:35No-one was quite clear what "the Big Society" meant,
0:01:35 > 0:01:38but if it was about people taking personal responsibility,
0:01:38 > 0:01:42there would never be a better time to test whether it could work.
0:01:42 > 0:01:45It's not our job. We have made it clear,
0:01:45 > 0:01:50we made it clear months ago, that we could not continue to support some of our facilities.
0:01:50 > 0:01:53It's other people's jobs to be proactive
0:01:53 > 0:01:56and come to us and, quite frankly, that's one of the big challenges.
0:02:08 > 0:02:10I'm going to come in a bit lower down.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13LAUGHTER
0:02:13 > 0:02:14One, two, three...
0:02:14 > 0:02:17CAMERA CLICKS
0:02:17 > 0:02:19Mr Pervez, can I move you to the front?
0:02:24 > 0:02:27Labour's Mohammed Pervez was back in power.
0:02:27 > 0:02:30Let's just have a plain one, a gentle smile.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32OK, good.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35But who'd be a council leader in times like these?
0:02:39 > 0:02:40All right?
0:02:40 > 0:02:43MUSIC: "Wait A Minute" by Barbara Stephens
0:02:50 > 0:02:53He'd just slashed 36 million from the city.
0:02:53 > 0:02:58People had lost their libraries, care homes, bus services,
0:02:58 > 0:03:01golf courses, public toilets,
0:03:01 > 0:03:03and 700 council workers had lost their jobs.
0:03:03 > 0:03:06- SHE SOBS - I can't tell you.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08But there was worse to come.
0:03:09 > 0:03:14The leader was staring down the barrel again.
0:03:14 > 0:03:17He had to find another 20 million from the city this year.
0:03:20 > 0:03:24He was also still dealing with the fallout from the decisions
0:03:24 > 0:03:26he'd just made.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28ALL: Save our centres!
0:03:28 > 0:03:31Four months ago, everyone was campaigning against the cuts.
0:03:31 > 0:03:36Of all the protests, the most vocal had been led by the city's mums.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39We are passionate about this campaign.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42We are everyday mums and dads
0:03:42 > 0:03:46and we've been given this wonderful gift of the Sure Start children's centres -
0:03:46 > 0:03:51a place of safety, security, a harmonious learning environment
0:03:51 > 0:03:55for the people we hold most dear in this society, our children,
0:03:55 > 0:03:57and I hope that, for the future,
0:03:57 > 0:04:01we will be making it into a nicer Stoke on Trent,
0:04:01 > 0:04:04and not a place where we don't want to live any more. Thank you.
0:04:04 > 0:04:06APPLAUSE
0:04:09 > 0:04:11I would like to endorse what
0:04:11 > 0:04:13Melissa says, fully.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15I must congratulate you, Melissa.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19With 6,000 petitioners behind them,
0:04:19 > 0:04:22they'd fought the closure of seven Sure Start centres.
0:04:22 > 0:04:25They supported families in some of the poorest parts of Stoke
0:04:25 > 0:04:30with childcare, health, family support.
0:04:30 > 0:04:32CHANTING: Save our centres!
0:04:32 > 0:04:34The politicians had taken note.
0:04:34 > 0:04:38They had their eyes fixed on the May local elections.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41And this was a potential vote winner.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45No-one wants to close facilities and neither do I.
0:04:45 > 0:04:49No children's centres will close under the current proposals.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51APPLAUSE
0:04:51 > 0:04:52Yeah!
0:04:52 > 0:04:54It was a good-news story.
0:04:54 > 0:04:57I hereby declare that Mohammed Pervez is dually elected...
0:04:57 > 0:05:00- APPLAUSE AND CHEERING - Everyone seemed to have won.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05But behind the headlines, an important fact had been
0:05:05 > 0:05:07relegated to the small print.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13That's what they said - "We have saved the 16 children's centres."
0:05:13 > 0:05:16They didn't go along in that sentence, "..But..."
0:05:16 > 0:05:21"we have taken away 2.25 million from their budget,
0:05:21 > 0:05:24"which will be devastating to the children's centres."
0:05:24 > 0:05:32As far as I'm concerned, they have used and abused our campaign to their own benefit.
0:05:32 > 0:05:37I didn't think the council could be so conniving.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41Right, if we're looking at it,
0:05:41 > 0:05:45I'm going to take away everything we'll lose.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47Numeracy will go.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50No creche available for that, either. Start Up will go...
0:05:50 > 0:05:562.25 million was 30% of the children's centres' total budget.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59"Fitness classes, creche available" - no chance.
0:05:59 > 0:06:00ESOL will go.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03Literacy will go...
0:06:21 > 0:06:24The political landscape was now very different.
0:06:24 > 0:06:25With the leader returned to office,
0:06:25 > 0:06:29the campaigners had nothing to bargain with.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35We did a kind of "that's what we're delivering now,
0:06:35 > 0:06:38"and that's what we're going to deliver on 30% cuts."
0:06:38 > 0:06:42We're just asking if you can reconsider the cuts.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44If we could get 10% back, we could work.
0:06:44 > 0:06:48The politicians, in February, at council,
0:06:48 > 0:06:52made the decision that they would expect 2.25 million to be cut,
0:06:52 > 0:06:56so the reality is that figure has been cut.
0:06:56 > 0:07:00We know we're going to lose some services, we know that.
0:07:00 > 0:07:04We're asking if you can reconsider it because 30% just seems a lot.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06It's punitive.
0:07:06 > 0:07:10Coming in and saying, "2.25 is too much
0:07:10 > 0:07:13"and therefore we can't..." You shouldn't do it..."
0:07:13 > 0:07:15That's not something we can deliver.
0:07:15 > 0:07:19I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I'm saying, "Can you reconsider from 30 to 20?"
0:07:19 > 0:07:22Where's the will? That's what we want to see, the will.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25Turn it round, please, turn it round.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29If he did change his mind,
0:07:29 > 0:07:33it meant someone else would inevitably lose out.
0:07:39 > 0:07:43Wherever he went, problems seemed to follow Mohammed Pervez.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47And he was about to head straight for another one.
0:07:50 > 0:07:54On the horizon, a political opponent was preparing to pounce.
0:07:56 > 0:07:58I'm an old-fashioned type.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01When the council and police go to their respect days
0:08:01 > 0:08:06and give pencils out and rubbers and soft toys, and all this...
0:08:08 > 0:08:10No, I can't agree with that.
0:08:10 > 0:08:14Respect has to be earned. You can't get it by giving pencils away.
0:08:14 > 0:08:19Dave Conway was leader of the opposition. He didn't do spin.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22He was an old-school politician.
0:08:22 > 0:08:26'Once Labour, he was now a very vocal Independent.'
0:08:26 > 0:08:31Why do they say you're a man that can get things done, Dave?
0:08:31 > 0:08:32HE LAUGHS
0:08:32 > 0:08:36Because... Well, a lot of people call me "the Rottweiler".
0:08:36 > 0:08:38I'm not.
0:08:38 > 0:08:41It's just I think we want the best for the people.
0:08:44 > 0:08:48Once the Rottweiler had hold of something, he didn't let go.
0:08:48 > 0:08:53This afternoon, I shall be asking the leader of the council...
0:08:55 > 0:08:57..why we have got in such a mess.
0:08:59 > 0:09:02And now he did have hold of something.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14We have already been warned that we have got to save
0:09:14 > 0:09:16another 20 million...
0:09:19 > 0:09:22..but we are owed 20 million.
0:09:22 > 0:09:26Just look at this lot. Just look at it.
0:09:26 > 0:09:3020 million owed out in council tax.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33We've just made a lot of people redundant.
0:09:33 > 0:09:36We've closed leisure centres,
0:09:36 > 0:09:39swimming pools, elderly people's homes,
0:09:39 > 0:09:43and to think we've got this outstanding,
0:09:43 > 0:09:47owing to the authority, it begs the question,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50did we need to do what we've done
0:09:50 > 0:09:56in closing these facilities that the public love?
0:09:59 > 0:10:05Now, I'm saying, and I do say, that that is nothing but bad management.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09If we were a private company,
0:10:09 > 0:10:13we would have been in the bankruptcy court long ago.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20Members of the City Council, ladies and gentlemen,
0:10:20 > 0:10:24please be upstanding for the Lord Mayor of the city of Stoke on Trent,
0:10:24 > 0:10:26Councillor Terry Follows.
0:10:29 > 0:10:33The £20-million council tax debt stretched back 17 years.
0:10:35 > 0:10:42There's something terribly wrong with this, somewhere. Terribly wrong.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Somehow, it had slipped under the radar...
0:10:46 > 0:10:49until now.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53On 23rd December 2010,
0:10:53 > 0:10:58questions were asked on council tax still owed.
0:10:58 > 0:11:02Councillor Conway had begun asking difficult questions.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04Those figures...
0:11:04 > 0:11:08I have no reason not to believe those figures
0:11:08 > 0:11:10that are before you, Councillor Conway...
0:11:10 > 0:11:11I'd like to know,
0:11:11 > 0:11:15if you don't know how much it is, how d'you manage this?
0:11:19 > 0:11:20Unbelievable.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35- That's a colossal amount of money, isn't it?- Absolutely.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37And who hasn't been collecting?
0:11:37 > 0:11:40The council tells us that every amount of money they're owed,
0:11:40 > 0:11:42that they've not written off, they're still pursuing,
0:11:42 > 0:11:45so, in theory, they'd like to get that 20 million back,
0:11:45 > 0:11:48but obviously, it's been sat there for quite some time.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51- It's gone on since 1993, Alex! - Exactly.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54What a bargain for the people of this city(!)
0:11:54 > 0:11:57They've paid their way and got nowt for it.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00What a cracking bargain(!)
0:12:00 > 0:12:04- I don't want any of that, do you? - Well, it's not ideal.
0:12:04 > 0:12:08# Here we go
0:12:08 > 0:12:12# Down that same old road The road where... #
0:12:12 > 0:12:15NEWS REPORT: The Government figures mean the authority's
0:12:15 > 0:12:18the worst in the West Midlands for collecting council tax.
0:12:18 > 0:12:22Labour councillor Sarah Hill, who's responsible for finance, says they are working to improve...
0:12:22 > 0:12:27News of the £20-million debt wasn't going down well with the public.
0:12:27 > 0:12:32After suffering the biggest cuts since the war, this added insult to injury.
0:12:34 > 0:12:39They really should go to town on people who don't pay their dues.
0:12:39 > 0:12:43I have to pay mine. Why shouldn't everybody else?
0:12:43 > 0:12:47They should be kicked out. There's no ifs, buts or ahs about it.
0:12:47 > 0:12:51There's too many wishy-washy bloody liberal people about,
0:12:51 > 0:12:52especially on this council.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56Chase them - if they're even down the other end of the country, get 'em!
0:12:57 > 0:13:00Even if it costs more, get them!
0:13:00 > 0:13:04Anywhere else, you'd stand them against the wall and shoot them.
0:13:06 > 0:13:12Wherever you went in Stoke, people were continuing to experience loss.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15The more you heard about the missing 20 million,
0:13:15 > 0:13:20the more you began to wonder how many were paying a price for the debts of others.
0:13:22 > 0:13:27I'm just so angry. I'm angry because we're not getting anything.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30We've got to go somewhere else, and it's only a little pool.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34Well, this is...heritage.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37I'm really, really angry, I am.
0:13:37 > 0:13:38Yeah.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51NEWS REPORT: It's the last day for two council-run swimming pools in Stoke on Trent today.
0:13:51 > 0:13:54Under the authority's plans to save money, both Shilton
0:13:54 > 0:13:57and Tunstall pools will shut.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01Tunstall Pool was the country's oldest Victorian swimming baths.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05It had survived two world wars.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08But these women were enjoying their last swim.
0:14:08 > 0:14:10It was closing,
0:14:10 > 0:14:15saving the council £82,000 and a backlog of maintenance.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19We really are upset about today,
0:14:19 > 0:14:22because it's like an end of an era, isn't it?
0:14:22 > 0:14:28I was taught to swim in here when I was seven, and I'm 78 now.
0:14:29 > 0:14:33I've thoroughly enjoyed my lifetime in here, and I thought I would
0:14:33 > 0:14:39have been able to carry on longer, but it's not to be, and that's it.
0:14:40 > 0:14:45There's nothing more soul-destroying than staying in your home, not talking.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48Some of these people won't talk to anyone else all week.
0:14:48 > 0:14:52They're scared to go out at night, so they just come out
0:14:52 > 0:14:56for their classes that they know and the people they meet.
0:14:56 > 0:14:57They have a good chat.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00A lot of them will just stay at home now.
0:15:00 > 0:15:04They get sick, they get ill, lonely and depressed.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07Ta-ra. I might see you at Fenton.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09Yeah, you will. Take care!
0:15:11 > 0:15:13It's a disgrace, really, ain't it?
0:15:13 > 0:15:18She's crying. That's like a 70-year-old woman crying
0:15:18 > 0:15:23cos she enjoys coming here and it's such a shame, it's heartbreaking.
0:15:23 > 0:15:27I don't know. I can't understand it meself.
0:15:27 > 0:15:29But there you go.
0:15:29 > 0:15:33They say change is good, but not always, not always.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41I'm just hoping some angel from heaven
0:15:41 > 0:15:43will come down and save it for us.
0:15:45 > 0:15:46It wasn't an angel,
0:15:46 > 0:15:50but another of God's messengers - the local vicar, Father John.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53- Would you be interested in coming back if we...?- Yes.
0:15:53 > 0:15:55- Ah.- I don't think they should have closed it.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59The only way the pool could be saved was if the locals ran it themselves.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02But could the Big Society work in Tunstall?
0:16:02 > 0:16:05- Are you going anywhere else at the minute?- No.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07- Would you come back if it re-opened?- Definitely.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10- NEWS REPORT:- Campaigners are trying to save Tunstall Pool
0:16:10 > 0:16:12and are looking to set up a trust to take it over.
0:16:12 > 0:16:16Father John Starver from Christchurch says they're confident
0:16:16 > 0:16:18they can find the money to run it.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24Tunstall was perched in the north of the city.
0:16:24 > 0:16:29It was one of the most deprived of the six towns that made up Stoke on Trent.
0:16:29 > 0:16:33On all the social indicators - health, education, income -
0:16:33 > 0:16:37it fell well below the city average.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40Tunstall had seen better times.
0:16:40 > 0:16:43Two of its most successful exports had fled some time ago.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47Robbie Williams was born and bred here, but had gone to LA.
0:16:47 > 0:16:51Royal Doulton, just down the road,
0:16:51 > 0:16:55had relocated to China. The jobs had gone with it.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58Besides the pool, there wasn't a lot left.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02If I didn't do something, I would feel guilty for not,
0:17:02 > 0:17:05and it's really about caring for the people in my parish
0:17:05 > 0:17:08and wanting the best for them.
0:17:09 > 0:17:14A girl who's seven who says, "I love swimming at Tunstall Pool.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17"It would really break my heart if the pool shut.
0:17:17 > 0:17:22"Every time I go on Thursday, I do 72 lengths or more, which is a lot.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25"One day I'd like to swim for the county, and maybe one day for the country,
0:17:25 > 0:17:29"because I really enjoy swimming and it's my greatest hobby.
0:17:29 > 0:17:32"That's only if the pool stays open, so please don't shut Tunstall Pool."
0:17:34 > 0:17:373,000 people had petitioned against the closure.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42It's very good, and all the rest of what you've been doing -
0:17:42 > 0:17:44you've signed petitions, you've held up placards,
0:17:44 > 0:17:47but the time has come for more direct action,
0:17:47 > 0:17:50and what will you do to help save the pool?
0:17:50 > 0:17:54Don't complain about it. Actually do something practical.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00My understanding is that we've received a project proposal
0:18:00 > 0:18:05from Tunstall Pool Community Trust regarding the development
0:18:05 > 0:18:09of Tunstall Pool, and their proposals that have come forward.
0:18:09 > 0:18:13Father John had formed a committee with three other locals
0:18:13 > 0:18:15who were backing his cause.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18It was their first meeting with the council.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21It's quite important at this stage to put a bit of scale to this,
0:18:21 > 0:18:24from a financial point of view, because you're looking at
0:18:24 > 0:18:28an operation that's turning in, or was turning in,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31something like over £100,000 deficit.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33Just to give you a feel of the scale of the operation.
0:18:33 > 0:18:38Although the council couldn't afford to run the pool itself,
0:18:38 > 0:18:41it wasn't simply going to hand over the keys.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45Regarding the expertise for areas like health and safety -
0:18:45 > 0:18:47is that in place?
0:18:47 > 0:18:52No, what we're talking about doing is not...
0:18:52 > 0:18:56I'm concerned about the money, I really am concerned about the money,
0:18:56 > 0:19:01because, at the moment, there is no financial backer.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05They're still looking at what could be brought to the table.
0:19:05 > 0:19:07How long have they got to raise money?
0:19:07 > 0:19:12I would have said within the next few weeks, to start to really
0:19:12 > 0:19:16lay that on the table and be able to show that that financial backing
0:19:16 > 0:19:18is there, in whatever form.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22So what would their costs be in the first year, roughly?
0:19:24 > 0:19:28In the first year, don't absolutely quote me on this,
0:19:28 > 0:19:31but you're looking at 150,000, plus.
0:19:31 > 0:19:35Whichever way you turned, it was always about money.
0:19:35 > 0:19:39- NEWS REPORT:- New figures show the amount of uncollected council tax
0:19:39 > 0:19:43has actually gone up by £1.25 million in the past year.
0:19:43 > 0:19:47It makes Stoke on Trent one of the worst councils in England for collecting council tax.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50We did ask John van de Laarschot to speak to us...
0:19:50 > 0:19:54Inside the town hall, the story of Stoke's council tax deficit
0:19:54 > 0:19:56had begun to snowball.
0:19:58 > 0:20:03It threatened to seriously damage the council's credibility.
0:20:03 > 0:20:08It was down to chief exec John van de Laarschot to sort things out.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11The challenge that we've got is a pretty simple one, isn't it?
0:20:11 > 0:20:15What's happening in terms of council tax collection
0:20:15 > 0:20:18keeps coming up in full council, from some of our opposition politicians,
0:20:18 > 0:20:22is that the trend is going the wrong way and looks out of control,
0:20:22 > 0:20:24and the criticism that we continually get is,
0:20:24 > 0:20:28"If you save all of that money, you wouldn't need to do any cuts."
0:20:28 > 0:20:33He was paid more than £200,000 a year to make the council run more efficiently.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37It was time to show he was worth the money.
0:20:37 > 0:20:42Jane and I are pretty confident that we are dealing with the real current debt
0:20:42 > 0:20:44in as effective a way as we can.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46The big problem that we've got is that when you go back a few years,
0:20:46 > 0:20:50we've got a big hump of debt there
0:20:50 > 0:20:53that we need to cleanse and need to be clear about
0:20:53 > 0:20:55what our tactics are about how we collect that.
0:20:55 > 0:20:59So we've got £2 million that's more than six years old.
0:20:59 > 0:21:03Cases where we've tried every route available to us so far,
0:21:03 > 0:21:06so it's been to the bailiffs, we've tried to get attachments,
0:21:06 > 0:21:08and we've still not got the debt back.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11My sense is that you should push it like hell,
0:21:11 > 0:21:15because if we're going with that, with our mandate for change,
0:21:15 > 0:21:19and we have a piece in there which says we're not going to tolerate this that and the other,
0:21:19 > 0:21:22then, actually, why should bona-fide tax payers in the city
0:21:22 > 0:21:25be bailing out people that are trying to skivvy away from it?
0:21:25 > 0:21:27- All right?- OK.
0:21:27 > 0:21:31All of the arguments from those people paying council tax are,
0:21:31 > 0:21:34"Why are you going through all these savage savings,
0:21:34 > 0:21:38"as a local authority, when all this money's out there owed to you? "Just go and get it."
0:21:38 > 0:21:43There's a fair amount, I think, of public sympathy to that fact, but of course that money
0:21:43 > 0:21:44that is outstanding is once-off.
0:21:44 > 0:21:48The issues that we face are year-on-year-on-year basis.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50So, of course, it would help
0:21:50 > 0:21:55and make us look more professional and, of course, it would help us get our house in order,
0:21:55 > 0:21:58but it doesn't solve all the problems. You need to do both.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00So your Direct Debit is set up
0:22:00 > 0:22:03but, obviously, it's just for your current year's charge...
0:22:03 > 0:22:07What wasn't clear was how a council like Stoke
0:22:07 > 0:22:10had allowed such an enormous debt to accumulate.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16OK, now, this case is £8,712.48
0:22:17 > 0:22:20- 8,000?- 8,000.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22- £8,000?- Yes.
0:22:22 > 0:22:26- In debt to the council? - Yes, £8,700.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28- Is that unusual, that amount?- No.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32How many cases do you see a year, then?
0:22:34 > 0:22:35Thousands.
0:22:36 > 0:22:39We look at them daily.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43This is all we do, is look at people who haven't paid.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46We give them chance after chance after chance.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50I mean, the council keep on, "We're all in this together."
0:22:50 > 0:22:56We are, until you've got to pay, and then there's some who will and some who won't.
0:22:56 > 0:23:01Oh, yeah - they come up with all sorts of excuses to avoid paying.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04One of the main ones is, "I've been on holiday
0:23:04 > 0:23:07"and I've spent all me money on my holiday,
0:23:07 > 0:23:11"so I've got none left and I can't pay you."
0:23:12 > 0:23:15Speaking to people, they say, "I've got other debts,"
0:23:15 > 0:23:18and when you say to them, "This is a priority debt,"
0:23:18 > 0:23:23they'll say, "To me it isn't, cos I've got other debts to pay."
0:23:26 > 0:23:31He's got a debt of £4,811.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33Extremely high.
0:23:33 > 0:23:37We wanted to try and understand why the council's collection rate
0:23:37 > 0:23:40was amongst the worst in the country.
0:23:40 > 0:23:45It used several bailiff companies to chase down the unpaid money.
0:23:45 > 0:23:49Dukes was one of them.
0:23:49 > 0:23:51I did want to be a prison officer...
0:23:51 > 0:23:56but my partner refused bluntly to let me go ahead and do that,
0:23:56 > 0:23:58so I said, "I'll be a bailiff instead, then."
0:23:58 > 0:23:59SHE LAUGHS
0:23:59 > 0:24:02He didn't look pleased, but I said, "It's either one or the other,"
0:24:02 > 0:24:06so he says, "Go ahead and do that, if that's what you want to do."
0:24:06 > 0:24:09- So I... - D'you keep him in line?- Yes.
0:24:09 > 0:24:11SHE LAUGHS
0:24:13 > 0:24:1727-year-old Keeley was new to debt collecting.
0:24:17 > 0:24:19She was the only female bailiff working for Dukes.
0:24:22 > 0:24:27This gentleman owes 5,000, near enough...
0:24:29 > 0:24:31..going back to 2001.
0:25:03 > 0:25:04Hello.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09Yo!
0:25:12 > 0:25:15It's Keeley from Dukes Bailiffs.
0:25:15 > 0:25:16From what?
0:25:16 > 0:25:20Dukes Bailiffs. About your outstanding Council Tax at the property.
0:25:20 > 0:25:22What do you want?!
0:25:22 > 0:25:23- They're following me. - I don't care!
0:25:23 > 0:25:26I need to talk to you about your outstanding Council Tax.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30- Do you?- Yes. - Go on, I'll talk to you out there.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37You know you have a large sum outstanding for quite a period of time now?
0:25:37 > 0:25:38Cos I've got no money.
0:25:38 > 0:25:41Well, you've not paid any for quite some time,
0:25:41 > 0:25:43and if you've got no money and you're receiving benefits...
0:25:43 > 0:25:45I don't receive nothing.
0:25:45 > 0:25:47So you're not receiving absolutely anything?
0:25:47 > 0:25:49Nothing... Honestly.
0:25:49 > 0:25:51But you still need to pay your Council Tax, then.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54Since 2006, I've not claimed.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56Right, OK.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01But you still need to pay your Council Tax.
0:26:01 > 0:26:03OK.
0:26:03 > 0:26:06So how are you proposing to pay this if you're telling me you've got no money?
0:26:06 > 0:26:12- I'll have to get a job, won't I? - Yeah, because, at the moment, you've got £8,000 outstanding.
0:26:13 > 0:26:14Not eight...five.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18What else does everybody fucking... Am I on stage?
0:26:18 > 0:26:20And you wanted to discuss this on your front...
0:26:26 > 0:26:28I won't go away, this won't go away.
0:26:28 > 0:26:29You can't come again.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32I can, because I've already done that.
0:26:32 > 0:26:35- All right?- Well, come and take this letter from me, then.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38I will come back through, sir...
0:26:51 > 0:26:52Excuse me.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55- Oi! Get out of my house! - I'm already in.
0:26:55 > 0:27:01Get out. No, I'm sorry, you have just helped yourself...
0:27:01 > 0:27:04I know I have to invite you into my house...
0:27:04 > 0:27:07No, you don't. If you left the door open I can walk in.
0:27:07 > 0:27:08My door was shut!
0:27:08 > 0:27:10No, the door was left unlocked.
0:27:10 > 0:27:11Was my door shut?
0:27:11 > 0:27:15It was shut but it's left unlocked. I can't go away, this is me job.
0:27:15 > 0:27:18I'm a bailiff. You need to sort that out now, and if you're
0:27:18 > 0:27:22not telling the council that you've got no income, you're going to still
0:27:22 > 0:27:26keep getting your Council Tax charges, year after year.
0:27:26 > 0:27:29It's going to keep going on and you're going to end up owing more and more.
0:27:30 > 0:27:34The man had received nine court summons over the last ten years.
0:27:34 > 0:27:39During that time, he'd never told the council he was out of work.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44In a city where one-in-four was unemployed,
0:27:44 > 0:27:47getting people to pay wasn't simple.
0:27:47 > 0:27:50But cases like this only told part of the story.
0:27:52 > 0:27:54And how are you in a position to pay this at the moment
0:27:54 > 0:27:56cos it's almost £2,000?
0:27:56 > 0:27:58I know. I'm going to sort it out.
0:27:58 > 0:28:01I'm just trying to... juggle everything.
0:28:01 > 0:28:05Right. Is this your car?
0:28:05 > 0:28:06My husband's.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08Your husband's car. Both work?
0:28:10 > 0:28:11- Mm-hm.- Yeah.
0:28:15 > 0:28:18Got to pay your Council Tax... can run a BMW(!)
0:28:23 > 0:28:26- You've got behind with the Council Tax over a couple of years.- Yeah.
0:28:26 > 0:28:28How did that happen?
0:28:28 > 0:28:30I don't know - I just kept forgetting to pay.
0:28:30 > 0:28:34It just went all pear-shaped,
0:28:34 > 0:28:37totally forgot to pay this, that and the other.
0:28:37 > 0:28:41My husband is responsible for all the bills. He pays them all online.
0:28:41 > 0:28:44As far as I was aware he'd been paying them,
0:28:44 > 0:28:47so, it's a mystery to me. I've just rung him
0:28:47 > 0:28:51and said, "What's all this about?" and he says, "I haven't a clue."
0:28:51 > 0:28:54- I think it stretches back two years. - Does it?
0:28:54 > 0:28:56Yeah, I think it's £3,500.
0:28:58 > 0:29:00Yeah.
0:29:02 > 0:29:04What was beginning to emerge was that,
0:29:04 > 0:29:08while there were those who couldn't pay, there were a large number who wouldn't...
0:29:08 > 0:29:10if they could get away with it.
0:29:11 > 0:29:15They weren't people who'd missed the odd month. In some cases
0:29:15 > 0:29:18the non-payments went back years.
0:29:18 > 0:29:22I pay my Council Tax. I'm a home owner.
0:29:22 > 0:29:24It's mandatory to pay it.
0:29:24 > 0:29:26If you've got the money to pay it,
0:29:26 > 0:29:29if you work, then you should be paying your Council Tax.
0:29:31 > 0:29:34Does it make you a bit cynical about...people?
0:29:34 > 0:29:36Yes... Very.
0:29:42 > 0:29:45Because they just try and get away with everything.
0:29:48 > 0:29:52So, even the cases that are genuine, you have this nag at the back
0:29:52 > 0:29:56of your mind that they're not being completely honest with you.
0:30:02 > 0:30:04Watching Keeley do her job
0:30:04 > 0:30:08had started to reveal something important.
0:30:09 > 0:30:12Keeley from Dukes Bailiffs, about outstanding Council Tax.
0:30:12 > 0:30:17It wasn't simply a question of money.
0:30:17 > 0:30:21It was also about our sense of civic responsibility.
0:30:21 > 0:30:26If more people had paid their dues, maybe seven months on,
0:30:26 > 0:30:30the children's centres' mums wouldn't still be campaigning out on the streets.
0:30:32 > 0:30:34I just love rain(!)
0:30:36 > 0:30:40I think it's going to be a thing. Has everybody got petitions...?
0:31:01 > 0:31:05I have left my husband. I'm now bringing up two children.
0:31:05 > 0:31:09My stepmum has to help me. She had a nervous breakdown 18 months ago.
0:31:09 > 0:31:13If it wasn't for the Sure Start centre, she wouldn't go anywhere.
0:31:13 > 0:31:16So it touches everybody, but you're on about cutting it.
0:31:16 > 0:31:20Because the cuts to the children's centres were so big,
0:31:20 > 0:31:23the council was legally obliged to talk to families
0:31:23 > 0:31:26about exactly which services should go.
0:31:26 > 0:31:29Meetings were taking place across the city.
0:31:29 > 0:31:34But all the users wanted was for the council to change its mind.
0:31:34 > 0:31:39We're no longer in a debate as to whether it's a 20% cut or a 30% cut.
0:31:39 > 0:31:43It's actually a 30% cut that has been made.
0:31:43 > 0:31:47How you decide which services you offer
0:31:47 > 0:31:49is very much a part of this consultation -
0:31:49 > 0:31:51that's why we're listening.
0:31:51 > 0:31:55I'm sure, somewhere, they could scrape back 10%,
0:31:55 > 0:32:00somewhere, to save all them activities and them jobs from going.
0:32:00 > 0:32:03I'm worried that, with the cuts you're not going to be able to reach
0:32:03 > 0:32:05the families that need the help the most, like me.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08I had postnatal depression, didn't leave the house,
0:32:08 > 0:32:11and it makes me wonder whether, if you don't reach them,
0:32:11 > 0:32:14you'll end up paying out more in the future, because the kids will be
0:32:14 > 0:32:17taken off them, be took into care, because they're not looked after,
0:32:17 > 0:32:19because if it wasn't for my centre I wouldn't have my kids at all,
0:32:19 > 0:32:23they'd be gone - I'd probably still be sat at home, doing nothing...
0:32:23 > 0:32:26It's really difficult.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31Other questions...?
0:32:33 > 0:32:38'Publicly, the council leader was similarly uncompromising.
0:32:38 > 0:32:41'But behind the scenes, there were signs he was starting
0:32:41 > 0:32:43'to question the council's position.'
0:32:44 > 0:32:49Can you actually give them £750,000 back?
0:32:51 > 0:32:53Erm...
0:32:53 > 0:32:58Look, it depends on what is it that they want in terms of services.
0:32:58 > 0:33:03It's not strictly about money, it's about...
0:33:03 > 0:33:07If they can prove there are certain services
0:33:07 > 0:33:10which are really desperately needed for those communities -
0:33:10 > 0:33:14the very deprived communities and the most vulnerable people,
0:33:14 > 0:33:18then we could potentially look very seriously
0:33:18 > 0:33:21at trying to say, "OK, we're not going to get rid of those services."
0:33:21 > 0:33:26But if you cut... If you gave them 10% back...
0:33:26 > 0:33:28you'd have to lose 10% from somewhere else.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31Well, we'd have to find that 10% from somewhere else
0:33:31 > 0:33:33and, of course, don't forget we've already got
0:33:33 > 0:33:36£20 million worth of cuts to make because of the second year
0:33:36 > 0:33:39of the financial settlement we got from Government,
0:33:39 > 0:33:44and there will be then an additional £750,000 we would have to find,
0:33:44 > 0:33:45so it's a huge challenge.
0:33:50 > 0:33:55MUSIC: "Trust In Me" by The Foster Brothers
0:34:02 > 0:34:04The body of Christ.
0:34:06 > 0:34:09Business is difficult, life is difficult.
0:34:09 > 0:34:12But you can make it as easy as you want or as difficult as you want.
0:34:14 > 0:34:15The body of Christ.
0:34:15 > 0:34:20I don't need to work, but I work because I'm excited
0:34:20 > 0:34:24about getting up every day.
0:34:24 > 0:34:27It gives me a purpose in life.
0:34:27 > 0:34:31We've got a meeting this afternoon with Mo Chaudry,
0:34:31 > 0:34:34a local businessman who runs WaterWorld,
0:34:34 > 0:34:37which is one of the largest water parks in the UK.
0:34:37 > 0:34:43We're looking for his experience and his expertise, which is invaluable, but the money's important.
0:34:43 > 0:34:47'Mo Chaudry was a rare breed in Stoke -
0:34:47 > 0:34:50'a man with money, and lots of it.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55'The Sunday Times Rich List once said Mo was worth 58 million...'
0:34:58 > 0:35:01Mo, do you know how much you're worth?
0:35:01 > 0:35:02HE LAUGHS
0:35:03 > 0:35:04No, I've no idea.
0:35:07 > 0:35:12Best thing, if he got his cheque book out and signed a blank cheque, that'd be great.
0:35:21 > 0:35:25Mo had had run-ins with the city council in the past,
0:35:25 > 0:35:27but a big pledge from him
0:35:27 > 0:35:31would demonstrate that the residents were serious.
0:35:31 > 0:35:34- How are you doing? I'm Mo. - Hi, I'm Richard...
0:35:34 > 0:35:38When I took this business on, 12 years ago, I brought it from Rank Leisure.
0:35:38 > 0:35:42They were a top-hundred company, and people said, "It's not possible
0:35:42 > 0:35:46"to make money on a water-based commercial facility."
0:35:46 > 0:35:48I'm still here after 12 years,
0:35:48 > 0:35:52and I'm proud to say we've made money every year since then.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55Mo's business CV was impressive.
0:35:56 > 0:35:59But what Father John was searching for was a chance to ask him
0:35:59 > 0:36:00about money...
0:36:00 > 0:36:02He's got to have a return on investment.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05Shall I show you inside now?
0:36:05 > 0:36:07..And whether they could have some.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09Before we go into the business plan
0:36:09 > 0:36:13and start to scrutinise, maybe just set the scene, really.
0:36:13 > 0:36:19Basically, your objective is to develop this Big Society initiative.
0:36:19 > 0:36:23Take some leadership to try and get it going.
0:36:23 > 0:36:26What makes you think you can actually pull it off - what's so good about it?
0:36:26 > 0:36:29It's a family pool.
0:36:29 > 0:36:32The staff were always very friendly.
0:36:32 > 0:36:34I certainly think one of the USPs
0:36:34 > 0:36:40is it's one of the oldest Victorian pools in the country that's still open. Lots of them have been closed.
0:36:40 > 0:36:45Cash is king. So, where's your cash and what's your cash position?
0:36:45 > 0:36:52Obviously, over the time it builds up year-on-year, obviously, there is that initial problem...
0:36:52 > 0:36:55Where's your working capital? How much have you got?
0:36:55 > 0:36:58- Not a huge amount. - None at the moment.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00But we're in the process of, partly by talking to
0:37:00 > 0:37:02people like your good self...
0:37:02 > 0:37:04HE LAUGHS
0:37:06 > 0:37:09How much working capital do you need? Have you estimated?
0:37:09 > 0:37:13I've estimated about £100,000, just to open the door.
0:37:13 > 0:37:17If you need a hundred grand to trade, working capital,
0:37:17 > 0:37:20you must have 150 to 200,000.
0:37:20 > 0:37:22So you've got that little buffer?
0:37:22 > 0:37:26That will help you trade through your bad times.
0:37:26 > 0:37:29I'm not going to focus too much on your sales and marketing.
0:37:29 > 0:37:33With respect...that's waffle.
0:37:33 > 0:37:35It's much more difficult to deliver.
0:37:35 > 0:37:37There's things like portable appliance testing
0:37:37 > 0:37:41you haven't covered. Fire alarm, you haven't covered.
0:37:41 > 0:37:44Security system, you haven't covered. Then there's your buildings insurance,
0:37:44 > 0:37:46your contents insurance,
0:37:46 > 0:37:50your loss-of-business interruption insurance,
0:37:50 > 0:37:52your trustee insurance...
0:37:52 > 0:37:56in case you mess up and they come after you.
0:37:56 > 0:37:58- You wouldn't want that now, would you?- No.
0:37:58 > 0:38:01I think it's all about believability.
0:38:01 > 0:38:06And the next phase of your PR has got to be about believability.
0:38:06 > 0:38:11You're going to deliver this, not just a bunch of people with different backgrounds.
0:38:11 > 0:38:12Do-gooders.
0:38:12 > 0:38:17OK, do-gooders...who are not living in the real world.
0:38:20 > 0:38:23Mo hadn't promised any money,
0:38:23 > 0:38:26but he recognised that what Father John was trying to do
0:38:26 > 0:38:31represented something bigger than just the re-opening of a swimming pool.
0:38:31 > 0:38:35It'll set the tone for what comes next.
0:38:35 > 0:38:37It'll be a precedent.
0:38:37 > 0:38:41And I think it's a perfect opportunity...
0:38:41 > 0:38:46to actually assess this "Big Society" that the Government are on about,
0:38:46 > 0:38:50and then, ultimately, it's a leap of faith.
0:38:50 > 0:38:54The fact of the matter is, they've closed it, it's history,
0:38:54 > 0:38:57so why not give a new team of people
0:38:57 > 0:39:00an opportunity to resurrect something for the good of the community,
0:39:00 > 0:39:03and if it doesn't work, what actually have they lost?
0:39:04 > 0:39:08Mo had decided to kick-start the fundraising.
0:39:08 > 0:39:12He'd offered Father John free use of his water theme park
0:39:12 > 0:39:14to stage an event.
0:39:14 > 0:39:18If they sold enough tickets, they could raise £10,000.
0:39:18 > 0:39:21We've got some tickets for WaterWorld.
0:39:21 > 0:39:25It's going to be on Saturday, 10th September.
0:39:25 > 0:39:28It's at night - at seven till nine.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32Now, we've got a minimum donation of £10, but we're asking people
0:39:32 > 0:39:36if they can afford to, even if it's 11, 12,
0:39:36 > 0:39:41because the more money we make off the tickets, obviously, that all goes into the pot.
0:39:41 > 0:39:44Obviously, things are going to be different to what they were
0:39:44 > 0:39:46when it was run by the City Council.
0:39:46 > 0:39:49Being run by the community hopefully brings some community spirit
0:39:49 > 0:39:52together, as well - a bit of pride.
0:39:52 > 0:39:55And a lot about this project is
0:39:55 > 0:39:58obviously keeping the pool, or re-opening the pool for community use
0:39:58 > 0:40:00but also actually having the community involved,
0:40:00 > 0:40:04coming to do their bit for Tunstall.
0:40:04 > 0:40:07As we said on the posters, it's your pool.
0:40:07 > 0:40:11It's very much in your hands to support it, as well.
0:40:12 > 0:40:16In a way, the WaterWorld function is the litmus test.
0:40:16 > 0:40:20That really is going to help understand if the people of Tunstall
0:40:20 > 0:40:23really care enough to get off their backsides to turn up
0:40:23 > 0:40:26for a community-based event, to fundraise.
0:40:26 > 0:40:29I would say that they need to get a minimum of 500.
0:40:29 > 0:40:33If they get a minimum of 500, it proves something to me
0:40:33 > 0:40:38that the community do value the Tunstall Pool, and want to resurrect it.
0:40:38 > 0:40:42The money was gradually trickling in -
0:40:42 > 0:40:46they were up to £5,500.
0:40:46 > 0:40:51And there was talk of the council matching whatever the group raised.
0:40:51 > 0:40:54Things were moving in the right direction.
0:40:59 > 0:41:02Hi, I'm looking for Mr Bailey.
0:41:02 > 0:41:06Yeah, he's just upstairs. Do you want to come in?
0:41:06 > 0:41:08Yes, please.
0:41:09 > 0:41:14Hi, is it Brian Bailey? Hi, it's Keeley from Dukes Bailiffs...
0:41:14 > 0:41:17about unpaid Council Tax that you've got at the property.
0:41:17 > 0:41:20Do you mind if I take a seat and I'll just make some notes?
0:41:20 > 0:41:26I mean, I was working until last year, but they finished me off.
0:41:30 > 0:41:33Do you know how much you owe now?
0:41:33 > 0:41:38Well, it says 900-and-odd on there. Don't know what it...
0:41:38 > 0:41:45Your total debt outstanding at the moment is near enough 8,000.
0:41:45 > 0:41:48I didn't think it was that much.
0:41:48 > 0:41:53You've got ten years' worth of Council Tax on here.
0:41:53 > 0:41:55HE MUTTERS INDISTINCTLY
0:41:56 > 0:41:59- Did you know it was that much? - No.
0:42:02 > 0:42:06Why haven't you paid it?
0:42:06 > 0:42:09I just forgot, I just forget things.
0:42:09 > 0:42:10For ten years?
0:42:10 > 0:42:15I thought I'd sorted it and got up to...
0:42:16 > 0:42:18I don't know.
0:42:22 > 0:42:27I can leave some money with you. I can pay £40 now and £40 every week.
0:42:27 > 0:42:30£40 a week - it's not prudent for me
0:42:30 > 0:42:32to put you on an arrangement of that kind of length.
0:42:32 > 0:42:37I suggest you phone our office and make token payments,
0:42:37 > 0:42:43because I can't put you on an arrangement for £40 a week.
0:42:43 > 0:42:46With the amount of money you've got outstanding,
0:42:46 > 0:42:49I would need a substantially lot more than that per week.
0:42:49 > 0:42:53It's just because of the amount, how long this has gone on for - over ten years.
0:43:03 > 0:43:06Mr Bailey had ignored dozens of council letters, phone calls
0:43:06 > 0:43:09and court summons.
0:43:12 > 0:43:15That seems that's the first bailiff contact he's had,
0:43:15 > 0:43:18for not paying his Council Tax for ten years.
0:43:18 > 0:43:22He's had no other contact other than letters. It's easy to just
0:43:22 > 0:43:28put letters to one side and just bury your head about it, as many do.
0:43:28 > 0:43:30There's no repercussions, is there?
0:43:30 > 0:43:35No, no, there's no cut-off.
0:43:35 > 0:43:39It's not like with rent, they can evict.
0:43:39 > 0:43:41There just doesn't seem to be
0:43:41 > 0:43:46any particular repercussion, as you say, for not paying your Council Tax.
0:43:49 > 0:43:53And all Keeley had come away with was a promise that a man
0:43:53 > 0:43:58who'd paid virtually nothing since 2001 would get in touch with the council.
0:44:01 > 0:44:05As a bailiff, Keeley had the power to take away people's possessions...
0:44:05 > 0:44:09but only if the council gave her permission.
0:44:09 > 0:44:11We've got the liability holder from the council.
0:44:11 > 0:44:17They want us to go and recover the money by lawfully enforcing the debt.
0:44:17 > 0:44:21Then we get to the point when we can enforce, and then the council
0:44:21 > 0:44:26don't want us to enforce, they don't want to grant uplift to remove goods,
0:44:26 > 0:44:30so then, do the council actually want the money back, or not?
0:44:35 > 0:44:39£20 million remained unpaid across the city of Stoke-on-Trent.
0:44:40 > 0:44:43But it seemed that was partly of the council's own making.
0:44:47 > 0:44:50It made all the right noises about getting the money back,
0:44:50 > 0:44:54but, out on the streets, there was a danger it appeared a soft touch.
0:45:02 > 0:45:05John, do you think the council's been robust enough
0:45:05 > 0:45:07in chasing this debt?
0:45:07 > 0:45:09Have you been maybe a bit toothless?
0:45:09 > 0:45:13You know, if residents don't see that there's a deterrent,
0:45:13 > 0:45:17they'll just put the next council letter in the bin.
0:45:17 > 0:45:21There's been a lot of things to sort out in this local authority,
0:45:21 > 0:45:26and the approach we've taken is one that needs to be a little more firm.
0:45:28 > 0:45:31I've got feedback from speaking to some bailiffs
0:45:31 > 0:45:35that are working for the city council
0:45:35 > 0:45:39that felt the council was a bit hesitant
0:45:39 > 0:45:43about using the tools to go after the money,
0:45:43 > 0:45:47a little bit scared, because of how the council would be perceived.
0:45:47 > 0:45:51Do you feel that's been the case in the past?
0:45:51 > 0:45:53I'm not sure.
0:45:53 > 0:45:57I think that's a conversation to have with elected members.
0:45:57 > 0:46:00My sense is, um...
0:46:00 > 0:46:05More specifically, they won't take possessions from people's houses.
0:46:05 > 0:46:09Is that what they're saying? It's a difficult call, isn't it?
0:46:09 > 0:46:11You know, in a city
0:46:11 > 0:46:14where we've got massive levels of deprivation and so on,
0:46:14 > 0:46:16you've got to be sensitive about it.
0:46:16 > 0:46:19But, you know, we need a policy call, don't we, from the local authority
0:46:19 > 0:46:21- that says either we are or we aren't. - For won't-payers?
0:46:21 > 0:46:23Yeah, for won't-payers.
0:46:23 > 0:46:26And, you know, my recommendation will be that we push for it,
0:46:26 > 0:46:29and I think you'll get a lot of general public support
0:46:29 > 0:46:31that that's the right thing to do.
0:46:33 > 0:46:35The public might well support
0:46:35 > 0:46:37a more aggressive approach from the council.
0:46:42 > 0:46:45But in the 17 years since the council tax was introduced,
0:46:45 > 0:46:50no-one in Stoke had ever gone to prison for failing to pay.
0:46:50 > 0:46:52No, I'm not confirming anything.
0:46:52 > 0:46:55I'm just showing you that you can't touch that vehicle...
0:46:55 > 0:46:57Now, in austerity Britain,
0:46:57 > 0:47:01was it really the time for the council to start playing hard ball?
0:47:01 > 0:47:04I'm not working now. I lost my job,
0:47:04 > 0:47:09so as far as this whole thing is concerned, I'm absolutely annoyed.
0:47:09 > 0:47:12Do you want your letter back? Or are you coming back out?
0:47:13 > 0:47:16Even in the wealthier parts of Stoke,
0:47:16 > 0:47:17people were defaulting on payments.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20I don't see at the moment how I can go forward from this
0:47:20 > 0:47:23because, as I say, he doesn't own the car.
0:47:23 > 0:47:25He hasn't actually got a job at the moment,
0:47:25 > 0:47:29and they are very much living beyond their means.
0:47:44 > 0:47:48To think that the Government can think of doing this,
0:47:48 > 0:47:52but have they actually walked into the children's centres
0:47:52 > 0:47:55and asked people what it's done for them,
0:47:55 > 0:48:00asked them where they were a year ago and where they are now?
0:48:00 > 0:48:02They've never done that.
0:48:02 > 0:48:06They've never asked, they've never been to us and asked those questions,
0:48:06 > 0:48:09you know, they've never been through the doors.
0:48:11 > 0:48:12It had been almost a year
0:48:12 > 0:48:16since Melissa launched the campaign to save Stoke's children's centres.
0:48:19 > 0:48:24While other protestors had come and gone, she'd kept on fighting.
0:48:25 > 0:48:28But now things were out of her control.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40The users of the children's centres are very concerned
0:48:40 > 0:48:43about the level of cuts.
0:48:43 > 0:48:47But we're under huge financial pressure,
0:48:47 > 0:48:51so we have to strike a balance
0:48:51 > 0:48:54of having shown that we've listened
0:48:54 > 0:48:57to the users of the children's centres during the consultation
0:48:57 > 0:49:00and also trying to achieve
0:49:00 > 0:49:04as much of the savings as possible.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11They were asking Council Leader Pervez to give back
0:49:11 > 0:49:13three-quarters of a million pounds.
0:49:13 > 0:49:17He'd called a special meeting of the cabinet.
0:49:20 > 0:49:23What we're talking about here
0:49:23 > 0:49:25is actually a significant reduction of services
0:49:25 > 0:49:28from those children's centres,
0:49:28 > 0:49:31in some cases to the point where they're only open one day a week,
0:49:31 > 0:49:36which puts their future in jeopardy, to say the least.
0:49:36 > 0:49:40Well, it's not ideal. Ideally, we'd have loads of money to spend however we pleased
0:49:40 > 0:49:42and we wouldn't have to be looking down this road
0:49:42 > 0:49:44and doing different things.
0:49:44 > 0:49:46But, you know, we've got these cuts...
0:49:46 > 0:49:48VOICE FADES INTO BABBLE OF VOICES
0:49:51 > 0:49:53As we know, you've put a huge amount of time
0:49:53 > 0:49:55and effort into the campaign.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58Do you regret it now?
0:49:58 > 0:50:00No, I would never... Don't do anything
0:50:00 > 0:50:02if you're going to regret it.
0:50:02 > 0:50:04I look back at that campaign,
0:50:04 > 0:50:06I look at how it brought all the parents
0:50:06 > 0:50:10from all the children's centres across Stoke on Trent together,
0:50:10 > 0:50:12because those people fought.
0:50:12 > 0:50:13They worked hard...
0:50:13 > 0:50:16The proposals on the table in essence leave us
0:50:16 > 0:50:21£750,000 short this year. We've got a budgetary challenge
0:50:21 > 0:50:24going into next year of approximately £20 million,
0:50:24 > 0:50:27so this is not an easy amount to throw away
0:50:27 > 0:50:30because we're going to need to find it a little later on.
0:50:34 > 0:50:38There's another debate going on about early-intervention work
0:50:38 > 0:50:43to prevent youth from getting involved in criminality and so on.
0:50:43 > 0:50:48How do we defend our decision, then, to be cutting services
0:50:48 > 0:50:50which are sort of early-intervention related?
0:50:50 > 0:50:54It's not easy and there's a lot of decisions here...
0:51:03 > 0:51:07DAVID CAMERON: 'I want other forward-thinking, entrepreneurial,
0:51:07 > 0:51:11'community-minded people AND neighbourhoods in our country
0:51:11 > 0:51:15'to come forward and ask for the same freedoms and the same support.
0:51:15 > 0:51:17'If you've got an idea to make life better,
0:51:17 > 0:51:21'if you want to improve your local area, don't you just think about it.
0:51:21 > 0:51:24'Tell us what you want to do,
0:51:24 > 0:51:28'and we will try and give you the tools to make this happen.'
0:51:29 > 0:51:32- Do you want to do the talking? - No, you can do the talking, yeah.
0:51:35 > 0:51:37Hi, there. Have you got a minute?
0:51:38 > 0:51:42Have you got 30 seconds? No? Fair enough.
0:51:46 > 0:51:47A month had passed
0:51:47 > 0:51:50since Father John launched the swimming pool fundraiser.
0:51:50 > 0:51:54But the people of Tunstall hadn't responded.
0:51:54 > 0:51:57Just 25 of the 1,000 tickets had been sold.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00Did you ever go to Tunstall Pool?
0:52:00 > 0:52:03No, I don't go.
0:52:03 > 0:52:05You go to Fenton? Why do you go to Fenton rather than...?
0:52:05 > 0:52:08Fenton's better than Tunstall.
0:52:11 > 0:52:15I mean, when we went along to the meeting with Mo,
0:52:15 > 0:52:20obviously it was his idea to, you know, do that as an event
0:52:20 > 0:52:23and he said, "Oh, yes, you should be able to get people
0:52:23 > 0:52:28"to spend £10. If you sell 1,000 tickets, that's 10 grand."
0:52:28 > 0:52:31But I think perhaps we didn't really appreciate
0:52:31 > 0:52:33that people weren't prepared
0:52:33 > 0:52:38to actually spend a tenner on, if you like, a one-off event.
0:52:38 > 0:52:40Yes, I mean, up until that point,
0:52:40 > 0:52:44we thought we had all the support we needed.
0:52:44 > 0:52:47And then it appeared that we don't.
0:52:51 > 0:52:55It's now time for the community to do its bit.
0:52:55 > 0:52:57If the pool is going to reopen,
0:52:57 > 0:53:00then local people have got to come and support it,
0:53:00 > 0:53:03and it's putting a letter out saying, you know,
0:53:03 > 0:53:05this is that sort of make-or-break time,
0:53:05 > 0:53:08that if there aren't enough people who actually are prepared
0:53:08 > 0:53:10to come back to the pool once it reopens,
0:53:10 > 0:53:13then perhaps it's a bit of a non-starter.
0:53:16 > 0:53:20Maybe the pool wasn't quite as important to the community
0:53:20 > 0:53:22as Father John had thought.
0:53:22 > 0:53:25But was that the failure of the Big Society
0:53:25 > 0:53:28or the failure of the people of Tunstall,
0:53:28 > 0:53:32a town that perhaps no longer cared?
0:53:35 > 0:53:38To save anything in this city, you needed to show fight.
0:53:38 > 0:53:43It was something the children's centre mums had never lacked.
0:53:45 > 0:53:48NEWSREADER: 'Cuts to children's centres in Stoke on Trent
0:53:48 > 0:53:50'are going to be less severe than planned.
0:53:50 > 0:53:54'The city council now wants to cut their budgets by 20%
0:53:54 > 0:53:56'instead of 30%. 11 teaching jobs will go,
0:53:56 > 0:53:59'but the council says centres won't close
0:53:59 > 0:54:02'and opening hours won't be drastically reduced.'
0:54:02 > 0:54:06The victories had to be savoured...
0:54:06 > 0:54:08because they were likely to be short-lived.
0:54:15 > 0:54:17It's been a long year.
0:54:17 > 0:54:19Yeah!
0:54:19 > 0:54:22It has been a long year, but we've got through it
0:54:22 > 0:54:25and, you know, we're all happy.
0:54:25 > 0:54:27I can sit here...
0:54:27 > 0:54:31I can stand here now and watch my child playing out there
0:54:31 > 0:54:34and, you know, like I said, I'm still on the children's centres
0:54:34 > 0:54:36and I've got every intention that the children's centres
0:54:36 > 0:54:38will stay here because I know,
0:54:38 > 0:54:41I'm not thinking of fighting next year, but I know if they say
0:54:41 > 0:54:43they're going to close the children's centres,
0:54:43 > 0:54:45it'll be another battle next year
0:54:45 > 0:54:47because I won't let it happen.
0:54:47 > 0:54:49You know, I'm that kind of person.
0:55:00 > 0:55:03It had been a long year for Mohammed Pervez too.
0:55:03 > 0:55:05Ah, Maureen is here.
0:55:09 > 0:55:14What happens when you come to look at the budget and children's centres again in a few months' time?
0:55:14 > 0:55:17Then we've got all those difficult questions to answer again.
0:55:17 > 0:55:20Is it a bit like a stay of execution?
0:55:20 > 0:55:21You just kind of...
0:55:21 > 0:55:24you know they've got to close eventually, some of them?
0:55:24 > 0:55:26There's going to be ongoing pressure
0:55:26 > 0:55:29on everything that we're doing across the board,
0:55:29 > 0:55:31children's centres included.
0:55:34 > 0:55:37He might have been the leader,
0:55:37 > 0:55:39but he was a man with very little power,
0:55:39 > 0:55:42making cuts whether he liked it or not.
0:55:45 > 0:55:50We approved a budget of £36 million in February this year.
0:55:50 > 0:55:53We have so far implemented 80% of those cuts,
0:55:53 > 0:55:57and even then it was quite painful for our communities.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59And now we're here today
0:55:59 > 0:56:03to discuss how we are going to take out a further £28 million.
0:56:03 > 0:56:07I cannot possibly see that we are going to be able to do this,
0:56:07 > 0:56:13this year or next year, without touching any frontline services.
0:56:24 > 0:56:28What we'd witnessed over the past 12 months wasn't unique to Stoke,
0:56:28 > 0:56:31it was happening everywhere.
0:56:34 > 0:56:36The politicians told us we were on a hard road,
0:56:36 > 0:56:39but in the end, it would lead to a better future.
0:56:41 > 0:56:46But the journey was already painful, and we were only at the start.
0:56:50 > 0:56:53This was the just the first year of cuts.
0:56:53 > 0:56:56How many more were to follow?
0:56:58 > 0:57:00DAVID CAMERON: 'The change we need in our country
0:57:00 > 0:57:03'is recognising that we'll only really make things better
0:57:03 > 0:57:06'when we all come together, when we all work together,
0:57:06 > 0:57:08'when we all join together, when we work out
0:57:08 > 0:57:10'that we're all in this together.
0:57:10 > 0:57:15'That's the change that our country needs. It's the Big Society.'
0:58:15 > 0:58:19Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd