0:00:02 > 0:00:09This programme contains some strong language.
0:00:09 > 0:00:12This is a challenging project on so many different levels.
0:00:12 > 0:00:15Three Belfast artists are heading to southeast London,
0:00:15 > 0:00:19where racial tension runs high, and relationships with police have
0:00:19 > 0:00:23been strained since the Stephen Lawrence murder 20 years ago.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26The police would like you to believe that they're working really
0:00:26 > 0:00:29hard with the community, but I still think they have a long way to go.
0:00:29 > 0:00:33The artists' mission to bring our mural tradition to London.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36With six teenagers, they hope to create three murals that express the
0:00:36 > 0:00:38mood of young people in
0:00:38 > 0:00:41predominantly black southeast London today.
0:00:41 > 0:00:44Ultimately, it will be wonderful, if the young people decided to
0:00:44 > 0:00:48paint an Ulster style-mural on a wall here in New Cross.
0:00:48 > 0:00:52But can three guys from Northern Ireland,
0:00:52 > 0:00:56armed only with brushes and paint pots, really make a difference?
0:00:56 > 0:00:59This thing will create debate.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03Since the Good Friday Agreement,
0:01:03 > 0:01:07three mural artists from Belfast have turned their talents to
0:01:07 > 0:01:10creating murals that unite, rather than divide.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17I am Danny Devenny, and I've been painting murals
0:01:17 > 0:01:20for as long as I can remember.
0:01:20 > 0:01:21My background in painting murals
0:01:21 > 0:01:24originates from my time in prison,
0:01:24 > 0:01:27round about 1973, '74.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31Since his release, Danny has painted over 1,000 murals
0:01:31 > 0:01:34and has become the visual voice of Sinn Fein.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37There's an even longer tradition of
0:01:37 > 0:01:39mural artists from the Loyalist community.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43My name is Mark Ervine, I come from East Belfast,
0:01:43 > 0:01:47I've been painting murals for nigh on 33 years.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50We weren't taught our own history in schools,
0:01:50 > 0:01:55we learned about Romans and Vikings and 1066 and all that,
0:01:55 > 0:01:59and I see the murals, street art, as an ideal vehicle to create debate.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03Mark is the son of the late David Ervine, the former leader
0:02:03 > 0:02:06of the Progressive Unionist Party, the political wing of the UVF.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11My name is Marty Lyons, I'm from the Falls Road
0:02:11 > 0:02:14and I started painting in 1981.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16I started to paint murals instead of graffiti,
0:02:16 > 0:02:20to show support for the prisoners that were on the blanket protests.
0:02:20 > 0:02:24Despite their different backgrounds, all three now often work together.
0:02:24 > 0:02:27This is a new mural that was started a week ago.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31It's in - I don't know what they call this - Kelly Square? What do you call this, Mark?
0:02:31 > 0:02:33- Bank Square.- Bank Square.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36To be quite honest, I think we became friends, first and foremost.
0:02:36 > 0:02:39If you had said to me,
0:02:39 > 0:02:4410, 15, 20 years ago that I would end up working with a former IRA man,
0:02:44 > 0:02:46a Republican ex-prisoner,
0:02:46 > 0:02:51I'd have asked the men in white coats to come out and pick you up, I would never have believed it.
0:02:51 > 0:02:52I'm able to do that,
0:02:52 > 0:02:54with the backing of...
0:02:54 > 0:02:5799.9% of my community
0:02:57 > 0:03:00and Danny's community.
0:03:00 > 0:03:05Now, Danny, Mark and Marty are about to face their biggest challenge yet.
0:03:05 > 0:03:08They've been invited to Goldsmiths University in London,
0:03:08 > 0:03:11one of the best art colleges in the world, where British artist
0:03:11 > 0:03:14Damien Hirst was a former student.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18- It's not my cup of tea. It looks like it belongs in a hospital, or something.- I like it.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22The project is being driven by John Johnston, an expert
0:03:22 > 0:03:25on murals and how they can be used as a force for good.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28The working-class areas of Belfast are marked by these murals,
0:03:28 > 0:03:30and that's no accident.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33Working alongside six teenagers, Danny, Mark
0:03:33 > 0:03:38and Marty have just four days to research, design and produce three
0:03:38 > 0:03:40travelling murals that will go on
0:03:40 > 0:03:44tour to schools and community centres.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47They're hoping it will inspire a generation of Londoners to
0:03:47 > 0:03:49take up the tradition.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51But can a bunch of guys from Belfast be taken
0:03:51 > 0:03:55seriously in a part of the world they know very little about?
0:03:55 > 0:03:57We talked about the possibility of them coming to London to
0:03:57 > 0:04:02develop a project here in New Cross about a very sensitive issue.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05An issue which some people would say is a black issue,
0:04:05 > 0:04:06and they've got white skin,
0:04:06 > 0:04:09but they bring with them a wealth of experience,
0:04:09 > 0:04:12and they bring with them a particular skill set,
0:04:12 > 0:04:14that wouldn't be as readily available
0:04:14 > 0:04:17to me in the local artistic community.
0:04:17 > 0:04:21Danny, Mark and Marty have been advised by Doreen Lawrence,
0:04:21 > 0:04:23mother of Stephen Lawrence.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26Stephen was killed by racists as
0:04:26 > 0:04:29he waited for a bus in April 1993.
0:04:30 > 0:04:31I have one more son,
0:04:31 > 0:04:35and how safe is he going to be until these killers have been caught?
0:04:35 > 0:04:3920 years on, with Stephen's killers finally behind bars,
0:04:39 > 0:04:42Doreen still believes there is a divide between the community
0:04:42 > 0:04:44and the Metropolitan Police.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47There's still such a deep-rooted racism,
0:04:47 > 0:04:50people are still suffering from racism from the police,
0:04:50 > 0:04:53people are still being stopped, and that hasn't changed much,
0:04:53 > 0:04:56I think it has increased.
0:04:59 > 0:05:00In yous come.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02As you can see, we've got the paint, we've got the brushes,
0:05:02 > 0:05:04we've got everything set up for you,
0:05:04 > 0:05:08and you've got six big lumps of wood.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11By the end of the week, you've got to have a painting on that.
0:05:11 > 0:05:13It won't take us long to fill them, John.
0:05:13 > 0:05:15JOHN LAUGHS
0:05:15 > 0:05:17Working alongside six local schoolchildren, they've got
0:05:17 > 0:05:22to paint murals that they hope will inform, inspire and provoke debate.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25This project is challenging on so many different levels,
0:05:25 > 0:05:28because we're dealing with an issue which is extremely sensitive.
0:05:28 > 0:05:32I'm Mark, I'm from Belfast, I'm very glad to be here.
0:05:32 > 0:05:35Bringing three artists from Belfast is another challenge,
0:05:35 > 0:05:37because it could be said,
0:05:37 > 0:05:40and rightly so, "Why are you bringing outsiders from Belfast,
0:05:40 > 0:05:44"from Northern Ireland, to this place, to paint a picture about this place?"
0:05:44 > 0:05:47Did you ever see Back To The Future? Any of yous watch that film?
0:05:47 > 0:05:48Remember the guy in the car?
0:05:48 > 0:05:50LAUGHTER
0:05:50 > 0:05:52So if any of yous want an autograph.
0:05:52 > 0:05:54I'm Danny D, a muralist from Belfast.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57The five girls and one boy who will be working with the artists
0:05:57 > 0:06:00all come from the same school in southeast London.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03If you lived in certain places, there will be groups of people
0:06:03 > 0:06:05who would attack people in a minority.
0:06:05 > 0:06:09Historian and activist Devon Thomas has been invited to
0:06:09 > 0:06:12talk about the issues affecting people in this part of London.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15What institutional racism deals with is the fact that you've got
0:06:15 > 0:06:18structures in place that work in particular kinds of ways,
0:06:18 > 0:06:21so you've got to change the structures and the ways they work.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25When I asked the question if a painting could be done in this
0:06:25 > 0:06:29community, which in some way, asked the critical questions
0:06:29 > 0:06:32about the past, about its history,
0:06:32 > 0:06:34what would it be about?
0:06:34 > 0:06:37The answer which came back to me was the New Cross fire.
0:06:37 > 0:06:42In 1981, a fire at a birthday party at 439 New Cross Road, at
0:06:42 > 0:06:48Deptford in southeast London, ended the lives of 13 black teenagers.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51A 14th victim killed himself two years later.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54The New Cross fire disaster was in my head vaguely,
0:06:54 > 0:06:56the reason that I was aware of it was
0:06:56 > 0:07:01because it came about just in between the two hunger strikes here.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04REPORTER: 'This is all that remains of the three-storey house where
0:07:04 > 0:07:07'nearly 100 young West Indians were celebrating at an all-night
0:07:07 > 0:07:10'birthday party for two young friends.'
0:07:10 > 0:07:12So, people within my community, would have been
0:07:12 > 0:07:14constantly watching every news item,
0:07:14 > 0:07:17and that's obviously one of the issues that came up during all the
0:07:17 > 0:07:20stuff that we were maybe more focused on -
0:07:20 > 0:07:22what was taking place in the prisons here.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25To this day, there is still debate over whether the fire was
0:07:25 > 0:07:29a racist attack, or whether it was started accidentally.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33What is clear is that the initial police investigation
0:07:33 > 0:07:36failed to bring anyone to account.
0:07:36 > 0:07:40Though the fire itself was not a racist attack,
0:07:40 > 0:07:45everything else that went along with the fire was racist.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52And what the New Cross fire signified was, this was it,
0:07:52 > 0:07:54our back was against the wall.
0:07:54 > 0:07:57I always say, before New Cross, we were coloured immigrants.
0:07:57 > 0:07:59After that, we became black Britons.
0:08:01 > 0:08:05The Stephen Lawrence story and the legacy of the New Cross fire
0:08:05 > 0:08:09have given the artists and schoolchildren ideas for the murals.
0:08:09 > 0:08:14I was hoping to have, maybe, a man sitting in his garden at home,
0:08:14 > 0:08:16watering his plants.
0:08:16 > 0:08:20The 14 little flowers represent each of the children.
0:08:20 > 0:08:23He's watering the new flower, which is the future.
0:08:23 > 0:08:25His roots, as well as the roots of the flowers,
0:08:25 > 0:08:27are totally embedded in the soil in which is,
0:08:27 > 0:08:30and I think maybe we can play about with things like that.
0:08:30 > 0:08:34Police stop-and-search powers are a big issue for the teenagers.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38If they're out and that, all, like, most of the boys,
0:08:38 > 0:08:40they just get stopped all the time, like my brother,
0:08:40 > 0:08:43one day he got stopped five times.
0:08:43 > 0:08:45One of the other images that
0:08:45 > 0:08:48I felt is unavoidable was a bobby
0:08:48 > 0:08:51with his mouth wide open,
0:08:51 > 0:08:54and inside the mouth, bars, like cage bars,
0:08:54 > 0:08:57with hands on the cage,
0:08:57 > 0:09:03but in the place of the face, a mirror, so that whoever was looking
0:09:03 > 0:09:05at this thing, could see themselves.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07This is only the beginning of it.
0:09:07 > 0:09:11So the artists from Belfast who are here working with the young people,
0:09:11 > 0:09:14they will finish on Saturday and they'll be getting on the train
0:09:14 > 0:09:17and going back to the airport and flying back to Belfast.
0:09:17 > 0:09:19The artwork stays here,
0:09:19 > 0:09:21and it's going to be used as an educational tool.
0:09:21 > 0:09:22And in effect,
0:09:22 > 0:09:25those young people are going to become teachers.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28I think it's really good that they are actually listening to us,
0:09:28 > 0:09:32and taking it, and making it a big picture, this is really good.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39Mark and Danny want to know more about 14-year-old Tayla Jones's
0:09:39 > 0:09:41experiences with the police.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44They're not doing nothing, they're just riding their bikes
0:09:44 > 0:09:46and playing football...
0:09:46 > 0:09:48So why are they getting stopped?
0:09:48 > 0:09:51Yeah, I personally... I think... it's right and wrong...
0:09:51 > 0:09:54because stop and search is to prevent...
0:09:54 > 0:09:57Yes, but if they have reason to stop and search you...
0:09:57 > 0:09:58Like, some police officers,
0:09:58 > 0:10:01they don't have a reason to stop and search you.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04What's best about murals is people pass them by quite quickly,
0:10:04 > 0:10:07and if you look at it for one second, you understand what it says.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09And the best is a slogan.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11So, there's a challenge for yous, that's your homework.
0:10:11 > 0:10:13Do yous get homework now, still? No?!
0:10:13 > 0:10:16Don't put yourself under pressure, but if something pops
0:10:16 > 0:10:21- into your head, throw it on the table tomorrow and we'll see what happens. - Yes.- Put your ruler here.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24Once they have agreed on the images they intend to use,
0:10:24 > 0:10:27they mark them up using a grid system,
0:10:27 > 0:10:31which will then be blown up and replicated on the wall.
0:10:32 > 0:10:36Danny needs a willing volunteer.
0:10:36 > 0:10:40I actually need a male, so I think this young lad is going to volunteer himself!
0:10:40 > 0:10:43Everybody who says Miles should do it, put your hands up.
0:10:43 > 0:10:48Miles poses for a photograph, recreating a typical police stop-and-search position.
0:10:48 > 0:10:53I had to pretend there was a wall in front of me, and, like, a mime,
0:10:53 > 0:10:54and lean forward.
0:10:54 > 0:10:57Hunch your shoulders forward a wee bit, I think.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00What do you think that looks like? What do you think...?
0:11:00 > 0:11:02Yes, looks like he's being stopped and searched.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04I like the idea that his hands are tense.
0:11:04 > 0:11:06Are you happy enough with that?
0:11:08 > 0:11:11Using a projector, they copy the image directly onto the wall.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16It's a rough outline, that's all you are going to get.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19There's an old saying here, and it's legend in Gaelic, and it's,
0:11:19 > 0:11:22"Mol an Oige agus Tiocfaidh si',"
0:11:22 > 0:11:25and it means, "Praise the youth, and they will blossom."
0:11:25 > 0:11:27Let's do the shoe now.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30We'll put more detail on this later on.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41Danny gets to work on the image he came up with at the meeting
0:11:41 > 0:11:43with Devon Thomas.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47The reason I'm doing this big yellow sky is because,
0:11:47 > 0:11:49as Devon explained to us...
0:11:49 > 0:11:51you know...they originated,
0:11:51 > 0:11:54not even from the Caribbean, but from Africa.
0:11:54 > 0:11:58They were taken there as slaves, so I'm trying to create the beautiful
0:11:58 > 0:12:02African sky. As we did with Miles today, hopefully tomorrow we're
0:12:02 > 0:12:06going to set up a shot where Devon's friend will be the man
0:12:06 > 0:12:08with the watering can.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12The roots may spell something relevant, I don't know,
0:12:12 > 0:12:16like justice, like truth, something like that.
0:12:16 > 0:12:20That sounds a bit arty-farty, doesn't it, you know what I mean?
0:12:22 > 0:12:25Just two more days to finish the murals before they are shown
0:12:25 > 0:12:28to an invited audience at Goldsmiths.
0:12:28 > 0:12:34Then they'll be taken to the Stephen Lawrence Centre for Stephen's mother, Doreen, to have a look.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37To find out more about the New Cross fire,
0:12:37 > 0:12:39the artists meet Michael La Rose.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42His father helped organise an historic protest,
0:12:42 > 0:12:46the Black People's Day of Action, in March 1981.
0:12:46 > 0:12:51As you can see, an important part of it was the names
0:12:51 > 0:12:54and birth dates and the day they died.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58Many were furious at the police handling of the case that
0:12:58 > 0:13:01resulted in the deaths of the 13 young people.
0:13:04 > 0:13:08It was the largest mobilisation of the Afro-Caribbean community
0:13:08 > 0:13:12ever seen in Britain, before or since.
0:13:12 > 0:13:15Over 20,000 people marched from the scene of the fire in New Cross
0:13:15 > 0:13:17to central London, with the slogan,
0:13:17 > 0:13:20"13 dead, nothing said."
0:13:21 > 0:13:25Our children are suffering. They are crying for help.
0:13:25 > 0:13:29The police are not reformed and they're still not reformed.
0:13:29 > 0:13:31Deaths in custody continue,
0:13:31 > 0:13:34the false arrests continue, stop and search still continues.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38- Apparently stop and search is on the rise again.- Yes, it is.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41The New Cross fire is an important element of the mural,
0:13:41 > 0:13:45but so, too, is Tayla's concern about stop and search.
0:13:45 > 0:13:50I have seen the police just targeting young people,
0:13:50 > 0:13:53mainly black boys that are riding bikes.
0:13:53 > 0:13:57If there's a lot of them, then they put on their sirens,
0:13:57 > 0:14:01and stop the car, then all jump out, even dogs, everything.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03I can identify with it, it happened to me,
0:14:03 > 0:14:05when I was growing up, back home.
0:14:08 > 0:14:11We were stopped probably more than five times a day, you know.
0:14:13 > 0:14:15So, I can totally identify with that,
0:14:15 > 0:14:19and because my father was an ex-prisoner...
0:14:21 > 0:14:23..whenever I was younger,
0:14:23 > 0:14:26certain police officers went out of their way to make my life
0:14:26 > 0:14:29difficult, even... I would've been younger, even, than Taylor.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32Can you get George just to take up that position?
0:14:32 > 0:14:36What do you think about the expression? Do you want him to smile?
0:14:38 > 0:14:41You're right, Victoria, the smile just makes it.
0:14:41 > 0:14:42We do a lot of stuff together,
0:14:42 > 0:14:44but we're still working on our own stuff.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46I'm still a Loyalist,
0:14:46 > 0:14:48they're still Republican, so there's
0:14:48 > 0:14:53things that they would paint that I wouldn't paint, and vice versa,
0:14:53 > 0:14:55although with different politics,
0:14:55 > 0:14:58there are things we agree on and...
0:14:58 > 0:14:59So you can get along with each other,
0:14:59 > 0:15:02you're not that different, like, you're different in what you
0:15:02 > 0:15:05believe in, but you're not that different,
0:15:05 > 0:15:07you're both the same, really.
0:15:08 > 0:15:10Sweep it up from the taper.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21You see, we're not sure of a line, if you can't...
0:15:21 > 0:15:23Yeah, that's why I left that one.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26Aye, don't bother, just go for the strong ones.
0:15:30 > 0:15:34As the artists are finding out, this mural project is about much more
0:15:34 > 0:15:37than the aftermath of the New Cross Fire.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41Memories of the Stephen Lawrence murder still linger.
0:15:41 > 0:15:42This was a black kid.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44If it had been a white kid,
0:15:44 > 0:15:47I know that it would have been dealt with differently.
0:15:47 > 0:15:49Stephen was killed by a racist gang,
0:15:49 > 0:15:54you had racist police who were investigating his murder,
0:15:54 > 0:16:00and, you know, we as a family had to live through the trauma.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04We were investigated ourselves, so we weren't seen as victims,
0:16:04 > 0:16:06we were seen as perpetrators.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09Doreen knows first hand the power of street art.
0:16:09 > 0:16:10A few years ago, Danny
0:16:10 > 0:16:14and Marty painted a mural in North Belfast of her son Stephen
0:16:14 > 0:16:16with 25-year-old Robert Hamill,
0:16:16 > 0:16:20who was beaten to death by a Loyalist mob in Portadown in 1997.
0:16:20 > 0:16:23It was quite humbling to get to meeting Doreen Lawrence herself.
0:16:23 > 0:16:27When she realised that it was actually myself
0:16:27 > 0:16:30and Marty who had painted murals about her son
0:16:30 > 0:16:34and how the issues affecting his death, in my head anyway,
0:16:34 > 0:16:39she endorsed the project of that I was becoming involved in.
0:16:39 > 0:16:44I've got the picture hanging up in my house of both Stephen and Robert.
0:16:44 > 0:16:48I can't help but always reflect on the two young men,
0:16:48 > 0:16:52who had so much to give, but yet their lives were cut short.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01Midway through day two and work grinds to a halt.
0:17:01 > 0:17:05Victoria Ogun feels the young people aren't being listened to.
0:17:05 > 0:17:09- The whole point of it was for us to get our ideas across to you... - Absolutely.
0:17:09 > 0:17:15And... you have done that... the policing, yeah,
0:17:15 > 0:17:17that's what we think, yeah, but it looks like youths
0:17:17 > 0:17:20are against police and the police are against youths.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22There is good police and bad police.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25Wee Victoria has got lots of stuff here, and I'm sure yous have, too.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27Do you want to take 20 minutes to decide here?
0:17:27 > 0:17:30Some of them are idiots and they wear their big bomber jackets...
0:17:30 > 0:17:33But some...
0:17:33 > 0:17:36It's a pivotal moment, as the children find their voice
0:17:36 > 0:17:37and take control.
0:17:39 > 0:17:43Your wee slogan, read that slogan out for us again that you came up with.
0:17:43 > 0:17:45"If I've done the crime, I'll do the time,
0:17:45 > 0:17:47"but not because of my clothing line."
0:17:47 > 0:17:50That is a mural alone, that slogan is a mural.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52See the one that Marty's working on - do you think that would
0:17:52 > 0:17:56work if we put that clothing on those three kids, and used your slogan?
0:17:56 > 0:17:57That ties in, doesn't it?
0:17:57 > 0:18:01We have got ideas from our own knowledge,
0:18:01 > 0:18:05and what we feel should be there, because, really, the painting
0:18:05 > 0:18:08is supposed to be about us, and how young people are treated.
0:18:08 > 0:18:13Everyone has separate ideas, but we need to, like, blend our ideas together.
0:18:13 > 0:18:17Can any of yous remember what the door number was of the house?
0:18:17 > 0:18:20Yeah, the door number was 439.
0:18:20 > 0:18:25What about if we put that number in the policeman's badge?
0:18:25 > 0:18:27That is a great idea.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29Yeah, I think we should do that?
0:18:29 > 0:18:30Do yous think that's OK?
0:18:30 > 0:18:32Yes, that's really good.
0:18:36 > 0:18:38They're halfway through,
0:18:38 > 0:18:43and Mark is anxious about the unveiling at the end of the week.
0:18:43 > 0:18:46The families are coming in the next 48 hours to view...
0:18:48 > 0:18:51..what we have done. I'm a wee bit nervous about it,
0:18:51 > 0:18:54because I'm not sure what sort of reaction we're going to get.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57Even though I'm not wanting to offend the families,
0:18:57 > 0:19:00there's probably still going to be people offended by what I'm
0:19:00 > 0:19:01doing out there, but really,
0:19:01 > 0:19:04I think the issue is too important to go silent.
0:19:13 > 0:19:17With just over one day left, the new ideas are starting to take shape.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20If you're OK with that, you see if we do this
0:19:20 > 0:19:24and we get this right, you'll be back here, you'll be painting
0:19:24 > 0:19:27it on a big wall over there, with these young people.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30That would be good, wouldn't it?
0:19:30 > 0:19:32That's if we get this right.
0:19:32 > 0:19:35One contentious issue emerges -
0:19:35 > 0:19:38the portrayal of the fire victims' faces.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41It's a subject that strikes a personal chord with Mark.
0:19:41 > 0:19:43I think if they walked in
0:19:43 > 0:19:47and seen a picture of their child, it would incite anger.
0:19:47 > 0:19:48Why?
0:19:48 > 0:19:51Because I just think it's...
0:19:51 > 0:19:54I lost my son, he died when he was 14,
0:19:54 > 0:19:57and if I walked in and seen a photograph of him,
0:19:57 > 0:20:01it's different seeing text and it's a name, but if I...
0:20:01 > 0:20:06It's too emotive... Do you know what I mean? ..and I would be angry at
0:20:06 > 0:20:10the person for doing that, because they're making me feel that way.
0:20:10 > 0:20:15My world was just turned on its head when I lost my son.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18It was certainly a very dark cark, and still is.
0:20:20 > 0:20:25Very raw. For myself, and for my family.
0:20:25 > 0:20:29If someone had been coming to do an art piece around suicide...
0:20:31 > 0:20:33..and I walked into a studio
0:20:33 > 0:20:35and I seen a picture of my son on the wall,
0:20:35 > 0:20:37and no-one had told me
0:20:37 > 0:20:39and no-one had asked me,
0:20:39 > 0:20:43I would have to say, first and foremost, it would have knocked me
0:20:43 > 0:20:45off my feet, I would've been shocked
0:20:45 > 0:20:47and then I would have been angry.
0:20:47 > 0:20:51What this campaign has done is very similar,
0:20:51 > 0:20:55almost exactly, what we do in our campaigns back home.
0:20:55 > 0:20:59Bloody Sunday, the pictures of those people, they're real people,
0:20:59 > 0:21:04they aren't just words on a list, somewhere,
0:21:04 > 0:21:05they're real people,
0:21:05 > 0:21:08that man had a baldy head, that guy there had a Beatle haircut
0:21:08 > 0:21:10that looked like my uncle.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13They brought those people to life.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15I'm speaking from experience. If I walked in and seen
0:21:15 > 0:21:18a picture of my wee lad there and wasn't expecting it,
0:21:18 > 0:21:19I'd be fucking furious.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22The families were involved, at Bloody Sunday,
0:21:22 > 0:21:24the families knew the pictures were going to be...
0:21:24 > 0:21:26The families are involved in this.
0:21:26 > 0:21:28- These people don't know what to expect...- Mark!
0:21:28 > 0:21:31- You're jumping... Are you trying to say...- Hold on, hold on.
0:21:31 > 0:21:33Don't get excited. Are you trying to say...
0:21:33 > 0:21:35You're forgetting they don't want us to fucking do this.
0:21:35 > 0:21:38There were objections, there was a woman was quite angry that it
0:21:38 > 0:21:41was being made into fucking artwork in the first place.
0:21:41 > 0:21:43Who wants to be controversial and in your face,
0:21:43 > 0:21:45and tell people, "We do this back home"?
0:21:45 > 0:21:47Who's worse for doing that?
0:21:47 > 0:21:49No, I'm doing that because of the injustice that was done.
0:21:49 > 0:21:52- Thank you. - Can you see a child anywhere?
0:21:52 > 0:21:53Sensitively is the key to this...
0:21:53 > 0:21:55Can you see a child anywhere?
0:21:55 > 0:21:58- I'm very sorry, I wanted to get your advice...- That was why...
0:21:58 > 0:22:01- You're not listening. - No, you're not listening.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04That was why my link to it was a door number.
0:22:04 > 0:22:08- No, sorry.- I'm going for a smoke, we can talk about it outside.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11No, they want to capture all this...
0:22:11 > 0:22:13We do it all the time, you want to see us off camera!
0:22:13 > 0:22:14This is the process, boys.
0:22:14 > 0:22:17There'll be too many bleep, bleep, bleeps, you know what I mean?
0:22:17 > 0:22:21I think that's what's good about a partnership with any creative
0:22:21 > 0:22:25piece of work, I mean I've painted friends on the walls,
0:22:25 > 0:22:27people I grew up with.
0:22:27 > 0:22:29What really impacted on me was the people behind me, when I was
0:22:29 > 0:22:32painting a mural, they were actually discussing
0:22:32 > 0:22:34the lives of these people I was painting.
0:22:35 > 0:22:39And so, my friends who I was painting were coming to life again.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43OK, erm, basically we have some ideas, yeah,
0:22:43 > 0:22:45and we were talking about...
0:22:45 > 0:22:46The children have further thoughts,
0:22:46 > 0:22:50and it is decided to link the three murals into one.
0:22:50 > 0:22:52The flowers are going to blend into the next two paintings...
0:22:52 > 0:22:54And after all the arguing,
0:22:54 > 0:22:57it's the teenagers who come up with a decision about how best to
0:22:57 > 0:23:01represent the victims, and there's going to be no faces.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05Flowers, instead of just having a straight line as the stem,
0:23:05 > 0:23:08the stem could be the name of the families.
0:23:08 > 0:23:12So it's not three separate murals, it's one.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14The children decided and...
0:23:14 > 0:23:16we sort of just obeyed,
0:23:16 > 0:23:19we done what we were told.
0:23:20 > 0:23:24With a new hierarchy established and deadlines looming,
0:23:24 > 0:23:27Tayla and Victoria give Marty his orders.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30So we're going to put it on each three boys,
0:23:30 > 0:23:32because "14 dead, nothing said" is going to go at the bottom.
0:23:32 > 0:23:36Yes, that's great, that will work great.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43Every mural I've ever painted, it changes in the process.
0:23:45 > 0:23:47So, that's always the way.
0:23:47 > 0:23:51It's kind of nerve-wracking that we have to show it,
0:23:51 > 0:23:55but I think it's really good, and I think it will build people's
0:23:55 > 0:23:57confidence in showing their artwork,
0:23:57 > 0:24:00cos normally, back at school,
0:24:00 > 0:24:03we just hide it when the teacher wants to see it.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13It's the day before the mural is revealed to
0:24:13 > 0:24:16members of the local community.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18The children have had to return to school,
0:24:18 > 0:24:21and John drops by to check up on progress.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24I think it's beginning to really take shape now.
0:24:24 > 0:24:28What I'm really pleased about is a combination between where the
0:24:28 > 0:24:31artists had their ideas and brought them into the painting,
0:24:31 > 0:24:34pretty early on in the process,
0:24:34 > 0:24:38but it's quite clear now that the young people's ideas are predominant.
0:24:42 > 0:24:47I think probably the most controversial image is the police officer, obviously,
0:24:47 > 0:24:50with the anger in that police officer,
0:24:50 > 0:24:53I mean, what question does that pose for the Metropolitan Police?
0:24:59 > 0:25:02Who was it that talked about this slogan here, "If we do the crime..."
0:25:02 > 0:25:05- Wee Victoria invented it, she came up with it... - But did she invent that?
0:25:05 > 0:25:09- Yes, it was like a wee rap... - Oh, yeah?
0:25:09 > 0:25:13Because if she invented that, she should be doing copywriting.
0:25:13 > 0:25:16The young people described themselves yesterday no longer as young
0:25:16 > 0:25:20people from southeast London, they described themselves as artists.
0:25:23 > 0:25:26It's Friday morning, crunch time.
0:25:26 > 0:25:29The day dozens of schoolchildren, community leaders
0:25:29 > 0:25:32and members of the public get to see the mural.
0:25:34 > 0:25:36Time for everyone involved to find out
0:25:36 > 0:25:39if all the hard work has paid off.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43I would like to hand you over to my friend and fellow artist,
0:25:43 > 0:25:45Tayla.
0:25:46 > 0:25:49Over this past week, I have learned the history of art,
0:25:49 > 0:25:51the history of Northern Ireland,
0:25:51 > 0:25:57the history of the Afro-Caribbean background in this local area.
0:25:57 > 0:26:01But the most important thing, that I think we learnt was how
0:26:01 > 0:26:06a picture, how the power of a picture can be used to raise awareness.
0:26:12 > 0:26:18Disappointingly, none of the New Cross fire victims' family members turn up.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20They've yet to see the mural.
0:26:20 > 0:26:23The mural is later taken to the Stephen Lawrence Centre,
0:26:23 > 0:26:28where the murdered black teenager's mother, Doreen, gets her first look.
0:26:28 > 0:26:30What gave you the idea....
0:26:30 > 0:26:34And an explanation from Tayla, Dariyen and Victoria.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38Well, like, the police, they discriminate against people and it's
0:26:38 > 0:26:40like nobody really says anything about it,
0:26:40 > 0:26:42but this painting says a lot.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47My first impression of the mural was
0:26:47 > 0:26:49how amazing, and how they
0:26:49 > 0:26:52seem to have captured and seem to tell so many different stories.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55And the watch symbolises the time, it's different times where they
0:26:55 > 0:26:58keep getting stopped because of the clothes that they're wearing.
0:26:58 > 0:27:01There was just an amazing capture of how young people
0:27:01 > 0:27:05feel about what's happening to them here in London.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10Another question is around the chains,
0:27:10 > 0:27:13and the chain's broken - what was that a symbol of?
0:27:13 > 0:27:18The silence that is being going round is now broken by the doves.
0:27:18 > 0:27:21Art is one way of helping young people to challenge what's
0:27:21 > 0:27:23happening out in society.
0:27:23 > 0:27:27Not many people, young kids growing up, really know about the New Cross fire,
0:27:27 > 0:27:30and as years go by, you just get less and less people talking
0:27:30 > 0:27:33about, but these young people should be told
0:27:33 > 0:27:37and have the chance of understanding of what is racism and the
0:27:37 > 0:27:41extent of what racism can happen when the community is so divided.
0:27:42 > 0:27:46I have to say it was one of the hardest murals I've ever
0:27:46 > 0:27:48worked on, because the feelings
0:27:48 > 0:27:53and the sense of injustice around it are still very, very much there.
0:27:53 > 0:27:56I would hope that the legacy of this project is that the young people
0:27:56 > 0:27:59take the knowledge, that they have
0:27:59 > 0:28:02and bring into their own community, bring it on to the streets,
0:28:02 > 0:28:06and they WILL mobilise and they will demand a voice
0:28:06 > 0:28:09and they will find a wall and they will paint a picture.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd