0:00:10 > 0:00:11I believe in God.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14Don't know why. Always have.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17Never had a religion, hardly ever went to church, but then,
0:00:17 > 0:00:20about ten years ago, just before I was 40, I became a Catholic.
0:00:20 > 0:00:24Nel nome del Padre, del Figlio e dello Spirito Santo.
0:00:24 > 0:00:28I've come to wondering - if I'd been born in another place,
0:00:28 > 0:00:30could I just as easily been a Jew or a Muslim?
0:00:32 > 0:00:34After all, they believe in one God.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37And, I assume, it's the same God.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43I've come to the Mediterranean, where Jews, Christians
0:00:43 > 0:00:46and Muslims have lived cheek by jowl with, let's be honest,
0:00:46 > 0:00:50limited success for as long as anybody cares to remember.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55And I hope,
0:00:55 > 0:00:58believe, even pray,
0:00:58 > 0:01:01that we actually have more to unite us than divide us.
0:01:10 > 0:01:14Last week, I was made equally welcome by Muslims in Istanbul...
0:01:16 > 0:01:18and Jews in Jerusalem.
0:01:20 > 0:01:24Both were happy for me to join in their religious celebrations,
0:01:24 > 0:01:27and just as happy to agree with each other and me
0:01:27 > 0:01:29that it's the same God we live under.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34We believe one God, and in different kind of religion.
0:01:34 > 0:01:37To my dismay, on that question, it was only the Christians -
0:01:37 > 0:01:41specifically the evangelicals - who begged to differ.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45Love all people, by all means, but there's only one way to salvation.
0:01:45 > 0:01:49Apparently convinced that the way of Jesus is the only way,
0:01:49 > 0:01:52and the Muslim's God is nothing to do with them.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55All, for me, quite disconcerting.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08And so to Rome, in the hope of some reassurance.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11Headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church and, by extension,
0:02:11 > 0:02:14I suppose, spiritual home to me
0:02:14 > 0:02:17and the other 1.2 billion-odd Catholics on the planet.
0:02:24 > 0:02:28Whether you're full of faith - any faith - or have no faith at all -
0:02:28 > 0:02:30this place will surely blow you away.
0:02:33 > 0:02:37Turn any corner, and antiquity - Christian, pagan or whatever -
0:02:37 > 0:02:40will almost floor you with its abundance.
0:02:45 > 0:02:46In terms of my religion,
0:02:46 > 0:02:49the sense of Christian history here lifts me up.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52Though I struggle with the sheer opulence of it all.
0:02:54 > 0:02:57Nowhere do those two things collide more spectacularly
0:02:57 > 0:03:00than at the Vatican, where I've secured an audience -
0:03:00 > 0:03:02albeit not a very private one - with the chairman
0:03:02 > 0:03:07and chief executive of God's holy Church, his Holiness, Pope Francis.
0:03:07 > 0:03:09APPLAUSE
0:03:13 > 0:03:18Francis is my kind of Pope - a benign, human, father figure.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22He says the true defenders of doctrine are not those who
0:03:22 > 0:03:25uphold its letter, but its spirit.
0:03:25 > 0:03:28More conservative Catholics aren't so sure about that,
0:03:28 > 0:03:30but, personally, I think he's bang on.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34Every Sunday, whenever he's in Rome,
0:03:34 > 0:03:39the Pope appears at his window to address and bless the adoring crowd.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43It's quite sweet, this.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46It's basically shout-outs to the different groups
0:03:46 > 0:03:47that he's heard are here.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54That's it. He's gone. The papal carpet will be pulled in.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58I must say, what I liked about that
0:03:58 > 0:04:01is the general reverence of the atmosphere.
0:04:01 > 0:04:03There was none of the kind of dreaded fervour.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05Just devotion, really. I liked that.
0:04:05 > 0:04:07Although, as I understood it,
0:04:07 > 0:04:11the message he was preaching was from today's reading, the New Testament.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13Basically it was saying,
0:04:13 > 0:04:16leave all your earthly riches behind, you don't need them.
0:04:16 > 0:04:20Which, if I may point out, is a little bit rich,
0:04:20 > 0:04:25given we're here amongst probably the most opulent place on earth.
0:04:25 > 0:04:26But I'll set that to one side.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29Nitpicking. Shouldn't do it, really.
0:04:31 > 0:04:34Jesus did say it's easier to get a camel through an eye of a needle
0:04:34 > 0:04:36than a rich man into heaven.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39Help is immediately at hand on that one,
0:04:39 > 0:04:43as they're very happy to relieve tourists of their riches round here.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47You can't, as far as I can see, buy a camel anywhere.
0:04:47 > 0:04:52But the range of holy trinkets and trophies is on a quite, well,
0:04:52 > 0:04:54biblical scale.
0:04:56 > 0:05:00It's got to be said that, of all the strands of all the religions in
0:05:00 > 0:05:07the world, the Catholics are absolute world champions when it comes to tat.
0:05:14 > 0:05:15I mean, this is nice.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20But I don't know where I'd put it.
0:05:20 > 0:05:22I don't know how I'd get it home.
0:05:22 > 0:05:25It's 420 euros - they don't come cheap, these things.
0:05:25 > 0:05:26See, if I had that in the home,
0:05:26 > 0:05:29apart from disconcerting any guests I might have,
0:05:29 > 0:05:31it'd be a bit of a worry for me.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34I think the eyes'd end up following me around the room.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38Time to sit down and take stock.
0:05:38 > 0:05:42Not spiritually, you understand, rather as to what I've plumped for
0:05:42 > 0:05:44from the whole barrage of bric-a-brac.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48It was an agonising choice, that shopping trip.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51Finally, I've come away with three things.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54I've got these little baby Jesuses.
0:05:54 > 0:05:55And I'm very pleased with them.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57An extremely useful keyring,
0:05:57 > 0:06:00bottle opener
0:06:00 > 0:06:02and nail clipper.
0:06:02 > 0:06:04That's what a useful pope we've got at the moment -
0:06:04 > 0:06:06can do three things at once.
0:06:06 > 0:06:09And, my personal favourite,
0:06:09 > 0:06:11a Pope Francis bobblehead
0:06:11 > 0:06:13in a Popemobile.
0:06:13 > 0:06:15If I want guidance on something, I'm going to shake it.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18And if it nods, I'll go ahead.
0:06:18 > 0:06:20If it shakes, I'll desist.
0:06:20 > 0:06:21I won't do it.
0:06:24 > 0:06:28Joking apart, the current pope speaks a language I understand.
0:06:28 > 0:06:30Only just before Christmas,
0:06:30 > 0:06:33he spoke of Christians and Muslims being brothers.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36It seems he believes in one God watching over us all,
0:06:36 > 0:06:38whether or not we're in his flock.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43That's in stark contrast to the evangelicals I met on the Dead Sea,
0:06:43 > 0:06:45who, with all their exuberant certainty,
0:06:45 > 0:06:49had me wondering whether I'm fit to call myself a Christian at all.
0:06:50 > 0:06:51After that experience,
0:06:51 > 0:06:53I'd really have liked a chat with the Pope himself.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55But, even better,
0:06:55 > 0:06:59my favourite priest happens to be in town for a theological conference.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02Truly, the Holy Spirit moves in mysterious ways.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08Father Gianni of my parish in West London is apparently
0:07:08 > 0:07:11so sure God is watching over him, he's willing to put his life
0:07:11 > 0:07:15in my hands, by placing his priestly posterior on my pillion.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21- You're feeling very snug there, Father, I must say.- Yeah.
0:07:21 > 0:07:22Too much intimacy.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28If the worst was to happen now, is it to my benefit that I've expired
0:07:28 > 0:07:31with a priest, or does the fact that I've brought about the demise
0:07:31 > 0:07:34- of a priest make it even worse for me?- Yeah, exactly.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37It could go either way, I'm not quite sure.
0:07:37 > 0:07:38He's a priest!
0:07:38 > 0:07:41Are you married yet? He'll do it for you if you like!
0:07:49 > 0:07:53Gianni is a Roman Catholic priest from the order of Augustinian Friars.
0:07:53 > 0:07:58He radiates humanity, intelligence and, most important of all,
0:07:58 > 0:08:00sort of normality.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03If I've got doubts to download,
0:08:03 > 0:08:06there's no-one I'd rather share them with.
0:08:11 > 0:08:12I mean...
0:08:12 > 0:08:16I've doubted at times whether I even belong, really.
0:08:16 > 0:08:21What I don't get is those who think they have a monopoly of the truth.
0:08:21 > 0:08:24And that, to me, from my short amount of study on these things,
0:08:24 > 0:08:26the Christians are the worst at this.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28From the more evangelical arm,
0:08:28 > 0:08:32they wouldn't even have it that it's the same god as the Muslims.
0:08:32 > 0:08:34Jesus Christ is the route to salvation,
0:08:34 > 0:08:36or you are damned, you're off to hell.
0:08:36 > 0:08:41If you accept the idea that God is beyond us, God is greater than us.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43But also, that in all these religions,
0:08:43 > 0:08:45there is an idea of this one God,
0:08:45 > 0:08:48it means that actually everyone is our brother and sister.
0:08:48 > 0:08:50Because we're all made by the one God.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52It's not that there's one God that makes the Jews
0:08:52 > 0:08:55and another God who makes the Christians.
0:08:55 > 0:08:56So no matter what we believe,
0:08:56 > 0:08:59in terms of differences of religion, of theological differences,
0:08:59 > 0:09:03the Christian, certainly, is someone who should say, actually,
0:09:03 > 0:09:05everyone is my brother and sister.
0:09:05 > 0:09:10I've come to be suspicious, or weary of, theology. The study of religion.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13Trying to work it all out. As we've said, you can't work it all out!
0:09:13 > 0:09:15Because it has to be mysterious.
0:09:15 > 0:09:17In getting into detail,
0:09:17 > 0:09:19I keep saying over and over again -
0:09:19 > 0:09:21the devil, quite literally, is in the detail.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24Looking at the detail, you will only find the devil. So just leave it!
0:09:24 > 0:09:26You're doing theology right now.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28Even that statement is theology.
0:09:28 > 0:09:30So, in other words...
0:09:30 > 0:09:32Oh, no!
0:09:32 > 0:09:35You can't avoid it, you can't get away from it.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39But, potentially, if you take that to its extreme conclusion,
0:09:39 > 0:09:42you could be saying we shouldn't think.
0:09:42 > 0:09:44That thinking is dangerous, or thinking is the root of all evil.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47When actually, it's ignorance and fear,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50and the inability to question that leads to problems.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52The opposite of love is fear.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55And if we build our religion on fear,
0:09:55 > 0:10:00then that's a total misunderstanding of how to approach God.
0:10:00 > 0:10:01Not for the first time,
0:10:01 > 0:10:05Gianni's kindness and wisdom puts a spring in my step.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07He's pulled a few strings and got me
0:10:07 > 0:10:11a meeting with the next best thing to the Pope himself - a cardinal.
0:10:11 > 0:10:13One of barely 200 in the Catholic Church.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20How do you feel about going to see the Cardinal?
0:10:20 > 0:10:22It's the confession bit I'm worried about.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25Don't even worry about that. All he wants to know is the sins.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29- Paint with a broad brush.- Yeah!
0:10:34 > 0:10:36So, am I really a Christian or not?
0:10:36 > 0:10:38In the shadow of St Peter's,
0:10:38 > 0:10:43Cardinal Prospero Grech gives me a brisk, theological cross-examination.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48You say you became a Catholic.
0:10:48 > 0:10:49Well, why?
0:10:49 > 0:10:52You felt something within you, didn't you?
0:10:52 > 0:10:55I just felt comfortable in a quiet Catholic Church.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57In Britain or abroad.
0:10:57 > 0:11:00With people a bit like me. I really still do.
0:11:00 > 0:11:03I can't fully explain it. So...
0:11:03 > 0:11:06That is exactly where God is.
0:11:06 > 0:11:09Because we can't fully explain God in Himself,
0:11:09 > 0:11:15and we can't fully explain God in ourselves, in our own hearts.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17We can't really define Him.
0:11:17 > 0:11:21See, to define is to limit, and He is unlimited.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24OK, what about ordinary, flawed mortals like me?
0:11:24 > 0:11:27I'm divorced, so I'm in a state of perennial sin,
0:11:27 > 0:11:31or wrong in front of God.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33So I could never be pure.
0:11:33 > 0:11:37I can just try my best. Can I still call myself a Catholic?
0:11:37 > 0:11:40It's not a question of just being Catholic, you see?
0:11:40 > 0:11:47I know that the Catholic faith asks very much of human nature.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50But it also believes in grace.
0:11:50 > 0:11:55And that means the power
0:11:55 > 0:11:59and the illumination of the Holy Spirit within us.
0:11:59 > 0:12:05And that's how we Catholics, sinners, all of us, go on.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10As the Cardinal doesn't seem inclined to excommunicate me on the spot,
0:12:10 > 0:12:14I pluck up my courage and seize an opportunity.
0:12:14 > 0:12:16A great blot on my conscience,
0:12:16 > 0:12:21as I speak to my friend Father Gianni about, is that
0:12:21 > 0:12:24I took confession before my first Communion, which I'm sorry to say
0:12:24 > 0:12:26was eight and a half years ago
0:12:26 > 0:12:29and I've been too frightened to go again since.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32Now I don't know whether you've got time. It might be a long time.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35It...well... Is it a confession of BBC?
0:12:35 > 0:12:38No. No, no. It's not an on-air confession.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41- Well, let's say we can have a chat now.- OK.- When it's over.
0:12:41 > 0:12:45- When the microphone's off. OK. - Good.- Right.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48There's no confession box handy but I'm told you can make
0:12:48 > 0:12:52a confession anywhere, so it looks as though I've no place to hide.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56And it's a daunting prospect, telling a 90-year-old man things you
0:12:56 > 0:12:58haven't shared with some of your closest friends.
0:12:58 > 0:13:02And this sinner's got a fair bit to get off his chest.
0:13:21 > 0:13:24It's a bit shaky on my feet. I haven't been thrown out.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27- I've come out voluntarily.- Yeah!
0:13:27 > 0:13:30- Yeah, yeah! - Um, well, what can I say?
0:13:30 > 0:13:34- A good conversation? - It's such a relief. I can't...
0:13:34 > 0:13:36- It's such a relief to have had that conversation.- Yeah.
0:13:36 > 0:13:40Anyway, he's a very nice man, thank goodness. I give thanks.
0:13:40 > 0:13:44No more listening to my... Give me a hug.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48There's actually a bit more to say about what I've just heard.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51But first, I need to get my head round it.
0:13:51 > 0:13:53I would've thought a cardinal's absolution
0:13:53 > 0:13:58guaranteed a guiltless sleep, but it's a dark and stormy night
0:13:58 > 0:14:00I spent fitfully wrestling with my conscience
0:14:00 > 0:14:02under the Pope's watchful eye.
0:14:04 > 0:14:06And morning doesn't bring much relief.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26I don't want to give in to silly superstition but this is a worry.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29It is surely more than a coincidence that having made my first
0:14:29 > 0:14:33confession in eight and a half years to a cardinal, I wake up
0:14:33 > 0:14:37the following morning in the Eternal City in a biblical downpour.
0:14:42 > 0:14:44Seeking shelter from the storm,
0:14:44 > 0:14:47I find sanctuary in one of Rome's 900 churches,
0:14:47 > 0:14:49where a lovely Italian family are welcoming
0:14:49 > 0:14:53their beautiful baby into the faith at a baptism mass.
0:14:55 > 0:14:59Nel nome del Padre, del Figlio e dello Spirito Santo. Amen.
0:15:00 > 0:15:02I was baptised as a baby.
0:15:02 > 0:15:04And odd decision by my parents, actually,
0:15:04 > 0:15:07given they're both staunch atheists.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16The Bible teaches us that ever since Adam and Eve disobeyed God
0:15:16 > 0:15:20by eating the forbidden fruit, we're all born with this original sin.
0:15:22 > 0:15:26Christians believe that baptism symbolically washes this sin away.
0:15:37 > 0:15:40PRIEST SPEAKS ITALIAN INDISTINCTLY
0:15:53 > 0:15:55Padre, del Figlio e dello Spirito Santo. Amen.
0:16:01 > 0:16:04And our family and our friends, thank you so much.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06APPLAUSE
0:16:16 > 0:16:19This quiet religiosity is the aspect of Roman Catholicism I really
0:16:19 > 0:16:23like and my spirits are raised by Mass.
0:16:23 > 0:16:25But as I step out of the church,
0:16:25 > 0:16:27I want to get off my chest what passed between me
0:16:27 > 0:16:32and the Cardinal during that rooftop confession the other day.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34Now, you know, the nuts and bolts of the confession will
0:16:34 > 0:16:39remain between me and him but there's one big thing, which is divorce.
0:16:40 > 0:16:44If divorced, basically, you're in bad odour with the Catholic Church.
0:16:45 > 0:16:50And I know a lot of divorced Catholics really struggle with that, as do their priest.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53Cardinal Grech decided he wanted to help and his suggestion was,
0:16:53 > 0:16:55"Well, get an annulment.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59"To make it nothing, like it never was."
0:16:59 > 0:17:01But it was nice of him to try and help
0:17:01 > 0:17:04but I can't believe THAT'S the solution.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07I've got two kids, apart from anything else.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10What am I supposed to say to them? That the marriage never existed?
0:17:10 > 0:17:12You know - it did!
0:17:12 > 0:17:16So, you know, it was great to meet him,
0:17:16 > 0:17:21but being here generally, as with everything else on this journey,
0:17:21 > 0:17:25just raises as many questions as it answers.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31Heavy stuff. I think I need a little break from all this Catholicism,
0:17:31 > 0:17:34so I cross the river Tiber to the Jewish quarter.
0:17:37 > 0:17:41There's been a Jewish community here since the days of the Roman Empire,
0:17:41 > 0:17:44two centuries before the Christians arrived.
0:17:44 > 0:17:45In 1555,
0:17:45 > 0:17:50a papal decree confined all the Jews of Rome to a marshy area
0:17:50 > 0:17:53next to the river, which became known as the Ghetto.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57The rule was only finally abolished in 1870.
0:17:57 > 0:18:02By 1904, the Jewish community had built this imposing grand synagogue,
0:18:02 > 0:18:03designed to stand proud
0:18:03 > 0:18:07amongst the architectural splendour of Christian Rome.
0:18:08 > 0:18:12My guide here is the charming Giacomo Moscati.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15He's invited me to join him for Shacharit - morning prayers.
0:18:15 > 0:18:20He takes me through the frankly bewildering array of rituals involved.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23- This is a shawl...- Yeah.
0:18:23 > 0:18:28..that we wear every day, every morning, to say the prayer.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43Have we... He's started... Is he... He's gone a bit...
0:18:43 > 0:18:45- Yes. This is the... - He's gone a bit early. Don't we have to join in?
0:18:45 > 0:18:49- Behind, you can join him. - But I don't understand. Don't you all do it together?- Yes.
0:18:49 > 0:18:54- So why has he started early? He's just very enthusiastic?- Yes.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58If there are more than ten peoples, he can't say the prayer. OK?
0:18:59 > 0:19:02Then we have to put this
0:19:02 > 0:19:04on our upper arm,
0:19:04 > 0:19:08- and this on our forehead.- Yeah.
0:19:08 > 0:19:13In this box, the smallest box, there are parchment, written of Torah.
0:19:15 > 0:19:18'These small prayer scrolls, known in Hebrew as Tefillin,'
0:19:18 > 0:19:20are worn for morning prayers.
0:19:20 > 0:19:22They're placed on the arm near to the heart
0:19:22 > 0:19:24and on the head next to the brain,
0:19:24 > 0:19:28to show that these two major organs will work in the service of God.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33Now I'm all for a bit of religious ritual, but it would
0:19:33 > 0:19:37take me more than one morning of prayers to get my head round this lot.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40- Extremely complicated business, this.- No.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43What, wrapping it seven times round and making a little X here?
0:19:43 > 0:19:46- It's complicated!- No!
0:19:46 > 0:19:50You see - one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
0:19:50 > 0:19:54- Hang on. One, two, three, four... That's eight.- OK.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57- One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.- Sorry.
0:19:57 > 0:20:00- I was counting that one. - Without this. Without this.- OK.
0:20:00 > 0:20:04So I'm still not... Have we started or haven't we started?
0:20:04 > 0:20:05In a Catholic church,
0:20:05 > 0:20:08everyone sits quietly then the priest comes in and that's it.
0:20:08 > 0:20:10It's kick-off. We start.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12Here, somebody's started and somebody else hasn't.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15- No, no, wait, wait. - Somebody's getting ready, but when does it start?
0:20:15 > 0:20:18- Does somebody blow the whistle? - Is beginning.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25- So have we started now?- Yes.- OK. - Not now.- Not now.
0:20:25 > 0:20:29- The rabbi wait. The rabbi will go there.- OK.
0:20:34 > 0:20:38- Can we sit down now?- No. Wait.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45'Enchanted, if somewhat discombobulated,'
0:20:45 > 0:20:48by the freestyle nature of the morning service, I hang on
0:20:48 > 0:20:52until it's unmistakably clear that the prayers have finally finished.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57By this stage in my journey, I can't pass any kind of cleric
0:20:57 > 0:21:00without badgering them about my doubts,
0:21:00 > 0:21:03so now it's the turn of the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Dr Di Segni.
0:21:05 > 0:21:09I became a Catholic just cos I felt comfortable in a Catholic church, but
0:21:09 > 0:21:12I believe in God but I think I might be better at being Jewish, really.
0:21:12 > 0:21:16I've only just become a Catholic so I can't become Jewish now. It would be ridiculous.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23It's not...it's very difficult to become Jewish, isn't it?
0:21:23 > 0:21:25It's not like you can become a Christian,
0:21:25 > 0:21:27and Christians invite that.
0:21:47 > 0:21:49But if you want to do it, you...
0:21:55 > 0:21:57I saw an interview with you.
0:21:57 > 0:22:01And you were asked, you now, that's the essence of being Jewish?
0:22:01 > 0:22:03And you took a long time to answer.
0:22:03 > 0:22:07You thought about it for a long time, but why is it so complicated?
0:22:10 > 0:22:14But isn't the essence of any faith just believe in God, number one?
0:22:20 > 0:22:23But you can't obey something you don't believe in, so number one is believing.
0:22:27 > 0:22:31OK, so you don't necessarily need to believe in God, then, to be Jewish?
0:22:55 > 0:22:58Call me old-fashioned but I'd always thought a belief in God was
0:22:58 > 0:23:03the number one basic requirement for any faith, not least Judaism.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06Truly, the whole question of faith is full of surprises.
0:23:07 > 0:23:12One Jewish tradition I do feel a bit envious of is the Friday night dinner.
0:23:13 > 0:23:18Rome's ancient Jewish community is 15,000-strong and being a hospitable
0:23:18 > 0:23:23lot, an invitation to a family Shabbat dinner is soon forthcoming.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27Baruch atah, Adonai, Eloheinu,
0:23:27 > 0:23:31melech haolam, asher kid'shanu b'mitzvotav,
0:23:31 > 0:23:34v'tzivanu l'hadlik ner shel Shabbat.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39It comes from the Nacamuli family.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41Though not wildly observant,
0:23:41 > 0:23:43they maintain the tradition of gathering every week to
0:23:43 > 0:23:47welcome in the Sabbath and are only too pleased to demonstrate
0:23:47 > 0:23:50how they do it to a hungry gentile.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52ALL: Buon appetito.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59That soup is lovely. You must give me the recipe for the soup.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01- It's very spicy, the oil. - It's lovely.
0:24:01 > 0:24:05The Jewish traditional food, and the Italian food,
0:24:05 > 0:24:08it's really almost the same thing.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10Because especially in Rome,
0:24:10 > 0:24:13because Jews have been here for longer than anybody else,
0:24:13 > 0:24:18so the Jewish cuisine is actually really part of the Roman tradition.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21This is stracotto.
0:24:21 > 0:24:24I've heard of it. I don't know it.
0:24:24 > 0:24:25It's a typical recipe.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27Yeah.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30- That we make on Shabbat...- Yeah.
0:24:30 > 0:24:34..because on Shabbat, you don't cook. OK?
0:24:34 > 0:24:39And this is something that you can leave on the platta for hours,
0:24:39 > 0:24:42and it can stay there,
0:24:42 > 0:24:47from the start of the Shabbat until the lunchtime, for example.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51'And as I learnt in Israel, for the most observant Jews,
0:24:51 > 0:24:54'there's a list of rules that go on as long as you like.'
0:24:54 > 0:24:57So would you not go out on a Saturday?
0:24:57 > 0:25:00- No, you can go out on a Saturday but don't take the car.- OK.
0:25:00 > 0:25:05- For example, myself, I go with my children to synagogue.- Yeah.
0:25:05 > 0:25:09- Er, walking.- Mm, and what about using electricity in the house?
0:25:09 > 0:25:14- I switch electricity on and off but I don't cook.- Right.
0:25:14 > 0:25:17I prepare everything that I need to eat before in advance
0:25:17 > 0:25:21and I don't cook. I don't light the fire.
0:25:21 > 0:25:26So the extent to which you do observe it, is it about religious faith,
0:25:26 > 0:25:28or is it about culture?
0:25:28 > 0:25:32Actually, um, we follow the rules for religion
0:25:32 > 0:25:35but also for our identity, for our tradition,
0:25:35 > 0:25:39- to teach to our children, to be Jew in the future.- Yeah.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43There is a mix of reason why everybody decide to follow
0:25:43 > 0:25:47the rules and try to keep the tradition in the future.
0:25:47 > 0:25:50- Do you want some more meat? - I do want some more meat.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52I thought you'd never ask. I really want the meat!
0:25:52 > 0:25:54THEY LAUGH
0:25:56 > 0:25:58It was really great to be part of that.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01I feel a bit sad that we haven't got more of that.
0:26:01 > 0:26:05It's a good example of religious ritual being put to some good use.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09You know, it's a good, sensible thing, a kind of a semi-compulsory
0:26:09 > 0:26:13meeting of the family and get-together every Friday night.
0:26:13 > 0:26:15Of course, we sort of had it with Sunday lunch, or at least I did,
0:26:15 > 0:26:17but that's sort of gone a little bit.
0:26:17 > 0:26:20I don't know, I wish I had a regular Friday night.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22It would certainly beat what I normally do, which is
0:26:22 > 0:26:25just go to the pub and wonder by how many goals West Brom are going
0:26:25 > 0:26:27to lose by the following day.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30It's altogether more wholesome.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38It's time to wave Rome goodbye and head for the magnificent
0:26:38 > 0:26:41port city of Marseille, one of my favourite places.
0:26:47 > 0:26:50There's no better time to arrive here than early morning,
0:26:50 > 0:26:53when the catch has just been landed on the quayside.
0:26:56 > 0:26:59You don't have to cast your net very far in the Bible
0:26:59 > 0:27:00to bring in some fish.
0:27:04 > 0:27:06Many of Jesus' early disciples were fishermen.
0:27:06 > 0:27:10There's the loaves and the fishes, and the odd bit of walking on water,
0:27:10 > 0:27:13which must have startled the poor fish no end.
0:27:15 > 0:27:18The fishing fleet is a big part of Marseille's heart.
0:27:19 > 0:27:23As is a gutsy, uncompromising working-class ethic,
0:27:23 > 0:27:25as is the Catholic Church.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30Bang in the middle of this trinity, is Father Michel.
0:27:30 > 0:27:33He's what's known as a worker-priest.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37I'd never come across the worker-priest movement before
0:27:37 > 0:27:41but I like the sound of it as much as I like the cut of this lovely man's cloth.
0:27:43 > 0:27:47It all started in Marseille's docks in 1941.
0:27:47 > 0:27:50In an attempt to reach out to what the Church judged was France's
0:27:50 > 0:27:53increasingly secularised working-class, some priests
0:27:53 > 0:27:58were relieved of their usual duties and sent out into industry.
0:27:58 > 0:27:59Michel chose fishing.
0:28:05 > 0:28:10So in your 50 years being a worker-fisherman-priest,
0:28:10 > 0:28:14how many fishes have you caught and how many souls have you saved?
0:29:10 > 0:29:12ADRIAN LAUGHS I thought it was...
0:29:12 > 0:29:15..like that, not like that.
0:29:29 > 0:29:34I must say, the idea of a worker-priest sounds perfect for me.
0:29:34 > 0:29:38I don't know why there's not more of that about at home
0:29:38 > 0:29:41and everywhere else. It does help when you're somebody like him.
0:29:41 > 0:29:45It would make you laugh in any language. I don't speak French and I was killing myself laughing
0:29:45 > 0:29:47at everything he said!
0:29:48 > 0:29:51'As it happens, I'm in the market for a nice fish,
0:29:51 > 0:29:54'as I've heard tell of some missionary sisters in the church
0:29:54 > 0:29:56'on the hill who will cook it for me.'
0:29:56 > 0:29:58- That one?- Oui.
0:29:58 > 0:30:00OK, OK. Shall we have two? Deux?
0:30:00 > 0:30:02Deux. OK, Deux.
0:30:02 > 0:30:04They are... Des poissons.
0:30:04 > 0:30:06- WOMAN:- Ventiquattro.
0:30:06 > 0:30:08Ventiquattro.
0:30:08 > 0:30:10- 24!- 24.
0:30:10 > 0:30:12THEY LAUGH
0:30:14 > 0:30:16C'est bien! Merci, madame.
0:30:21 > 0:30:23I head up to the top of the hill to the magnificent
0:30:23 > 0:30:26Catholic Basilica of Notre-Dame de la Garde.
0:30:28 > 0:30:32It's the architectural gem of the city from where La Bonne Mere,
0:30:32 > 0:30:35as she's lovingly known, watches over the sailors
0:30:35 > 0:30:37and fishermen far below.
0:30:39 > 0:30:43The Basilica, as well as offering spiritual nourishment,
0:30:43 > 0:30:44has a restaurant attached to it,
0:30:44 > 0:30:47serving the traditional Provencal food of the region.
0:30:49 > 0:30:52It's run by Carmelite missionary sisters from all over the world
0:30:52 > 0:30:56and I meet Marie-Jo, who runs the place.
0:30:56 > 0:30:59- Where's the head chef from? She's from which country? - From Burkina Faso.
0:30:59 > 0:31:03- From Burkina Faso?- Yes.- Oh, it's exotic.- West Africa.- And this lady?
0:31:03 > 0:31:06- Jessica, from Peru.- From Peru!
0:31:06 > 0:31:12- America the South.- So Vietnam, Burkina Faso and Peru.- Yes.
0:31:12 > 0:31:15- The whole world's here! - The whole world! It is true.
0:31:17 > 0:31:19To get the waitress, what do I shout?
0:31:19 > 0:31:22- Serveuse!- Service! Service!
0:31:23 > 0:31:25Oh, look at that! That's it.
0:31:25 > 0:31:27THEY LAUGH
0:31:31 > 0:31:36- Wine, as well. It's a bit early! It's only 2.30.- Not too bad.
0:31:36 > 0:31:39We're in France!
0:31:39 > 0:31:40Cheers!
0:31:42 > 0:31:43Introductions done,
0:31:43 > 0:31:47Marie-Jo and I settle down for a chat while her cooks of all countries
0:31:47 > 0:31:51work their magic on the fish Father Michel picked for us this morning.
0:31:53 > 0:31:57What many people understand by missionary is that it's your job to
0:31:57 > 0:32:00convert people to Christianity but you don't want to do that.
0:32:00 > 0:32:04- You don't want to make Muslims into Christians or Jews into Christians? - No.
0:32:22 > 0:32:23Yeah.
0:32:25 > 0:32:26OK.
0:32:28 > 0:32:32- Remind me of what vows you make. What are the vows?- Ah, the vows, yes.
0:32:41 > 0:32:43Do you ever think sometimes,
0:32:43 > 0:32:46maybe you could have been married to somebody else and had children?
0:32:46 > 0:32:49- Sure.- And you could still have thought about Jesus.- Sure.
0:32:54 > 0:32:55Yes.
0:32:57 > 0:32:59Yeah.
0:32:59 > 0:33:00Yeah.
0:33:06 > 0:33:07Yeah.
0:33:11 > 0:33:15But sometimes you've seen a handsome boy, and you've thought...
0:33:20 > 0:33:22I love you so much. You're the best!
0:33:22 > 0:33:26She admits to admiring handsome boys!
0:33:26 > 0:33:29- I'm sorry I'm not more handsome. - No, it's OK.
0:33:29 > 0:33:33'Hm. Nice of her to forgive me for not being handsome!
0:33:33 > 0:33:36'Not quite the response I was looking for, but there you go!
0:33:36 > 0:33:38'At least I'm not putting temptation in her way!'
0:33:38 > 0:33:41- Bon appetit!- Bon appetit, thank you.
0:33:41 > 0:33:42My Christian cup overflows.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45I love the likes of Father Michel and Marie-Jo.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48They've taken their vows and given their lives to God, but expressed
0:33:48 > 0:33:52their faith doing real proper jobs, not getting in anyone's face,
0:33:52 > 0:33:57just being happy and kind and making me, for one, want to be the same way.
0:33:57 > 0:33:59- Very good.- Yeah.
0:33:59 > 0:34:01- Tres bon.- Tres bon. Delicieux.
0:34:08 > 0:34:11With the mystery of faith - albeit fleetingly - clear to me,
0:34:11 > 0:34:16and my belly full of fine fish, I wonder into the Basilica.
0:34:16 > 0:34:19This turns out, appropriately to me at this moment,
0:34:19 > 0:34:21to be a sort of temple of gratitude.
0:34:24 > 0:34:30This is where people have come to give thanks to Notre Dame, Our Lady.
0:34:30 > 0:34:35They've done so since the 14th century and they give a gift,
0:34:35 > 0:34:41just give thanks, for surviving a shipwreck, in many cases.
0:34:41 > 0:34:44So that's why all these model boats are here.
0:34:47 > 0:34:52This idea of having someone to thank is absolutely central to it all for me.
0:34:52 > 0:34:55I sort of feel quite blessed in my life for being very lucky
0:34:55 > 0:34:58and I just feel the urge to give thanks for that.
0:34:58 > 0:35:03That's what it's all about. It just seems almost impolite not to.
0:35:13 > 0:35:16Thanks to France's North African colonies,
0:35:16 > 0:35:20Marseille is a right old melting pot of Abrahamic faiths.
0:35:26 > 0:35:30It's got the third biggest Jewish population in Europe.
0:35:32 > 0:35:36And in the fullness of time, it's thought it'll be the first
0:35:36 > 0:35:40city in western Europe with a Muslim majority.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43And that's a thought that unsettles a few people.
0:35:45 > 0:35:49Marseille's position just across the Med from Algeria, Tunisia and Libya
0:35:49 > 0:35:53means it's long been a magnet for Muslims of all persuasions.
0:35:53 > 0:35:57It's an intoxicating confusion of races and religions,
0:35:57 > 0:36:01exemplified by 35-year-old businessman, Ezzedine Glamhala.
0:36:01 > 0:36:07Like me, he came to religion late but, unlike mine, his family weren't atheist.
0:36:07 > 0:36:10He had the full house of Abrahamic faiths to choose from.
0:36:10 > 0:36:12Just tell us about your family. Who's what?
0:36:12 > 0:36:16- They're not all Muslim, are they? - No. My father is Muslim.
0:36:16 > 0:36:22- My mum is born Christian.- Yeah. - And my stepfather is Jewish.
0:36:22 > 0:36:24So why did you choose Islam?
0:36:24 > 0:36:30Because I found in Islam what I couldn't found in Judaism
0:36:30 > 0:36:34and also what I couldn't found in Christianism.
0:36:34 > 0:36:38When you have the faith, your life changes.
0:36:39 > 0:36:46- I found - how you say in English? - a sense?- Yeah.- A sense in the life.
0:36:46 > 0:36:52So until then, you were just a normal young Frenchman - nice-looking,
0:36:52 > 0:36:56smoke, drink, beautiful girls everywhere!
0:36:56 > 0:36:57All charming and everybody loves you.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00You were just like a normal Frenchman.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03- Yes.- Yeah!
0:37:05 > 0:37:08But you're...you're still the same now, just without the wine and the girls!
0:37:08 > 0:37:11- Uh-huh!- Exactly. Exactly.
0:37:12 > 0:37:15Despite the city's religious diversity,
0:37:15 > 0:37:18Marseille's quarter of a million Muslims mostly worship
0:37:18 > 0:37:23in ad hoc prayer rooms in converted shops, garages and apartments.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26There's no big central mosque.
0:37:27 > 0:37:33- If we look out that window there, there's a magnificent cathedral on the hill.- Mm-hm.
0:37:33 > 0:37:36Yet there are almost as many Muslims and Christians in this town
0:37:36 > 0:37:41- but there's no grand mosque. Is it important to you?- Yes, it is.
0:37:41 > 0:37:45- It's reconnaissance for the Muslim community in Marseille.- Recognition?
0:37:45 > 0:37:51Yes. And we need a big mosque to greet all the Muslims
0:37:51 > 0:37:55for Eid al-Fitr and Eid el Kabir.
0:37:55 > 0:37:59- OK, for the big festivals.- Yes. - So why isn't it being built? Is it...
0:37:59 > 0:38:03Is it the right-wing politicians' fault? Is it the city's fault?
0:38:03 > 0:38:07Is it the Muslim community's fault for not being organised enough?
0:38:07 > 0:38:14I would say it's just a matter of time. We are a young community.
0:38:15 > 0:38:20And if we want to make this project come true,
0:38:20 > 0:38:25we have to take from some Western values
0:38:25 > 0:38:28as management,
0:38:28 > 0:38:31communication, organisation,
0:38:31 > 0:38:36and then we will move forwards on the project
0:38:36 > 0:38:39of the construction of the great mosque in Marseille.
0:38:41 > 0:38:45Marseille's Muslims got permission to build a grand mosque in 2001,
0:38:45 > 0:38:48but for one reason on another it's not materialised.
0:38:50 > 0:38:54Ezzedine takes me to a small mosque in the suburbs that he likes to go to.
0:38:54 > 0:38:57And he's promised to introduce me to the imam.
0:38:57 > 0:39:01- Is he good with Christians?- Yes. Sure, yes.- He doesn't mind me going?
0:39:01 > 0:39:02Oh, good.
0:39:03 > 0:39:08I'm told this imam is an important figure in Marseille's Muslim community,
0:39:08 > 0:39:12so I'm happy to hear from Ezzedine that I'll be made welcome at the mosque.
0:39:20 > 0:39:24Cleanliness is next to godliness in all three Abrahamic faiths.
0:39:24 > 0:39:26Most of all, though, apparently in Islam.
0:39:26 > 0:39:30Ezzedine shows me how he performs his ritual ablutions before prayer.
0:39:30 > 0:39:34So this is the place where we make the wudu.
0:39:34 > 0:39:36Yeah.
0:39:36 > 0:39:40- Before, we always have to make the intention.- You've got to think...
0:39:40 > 0:39:43- In your heart...- Yeah. - ..that you want to do the ablution.
0:39:43 > 0:39:47- Yeah, OK.- This is the most important.
0:39:47 > 0:39:49OK. So you're not just doing it. You're thinking about it.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51Yeah and then you say Bismillah.
0:39:53 > 0:39:54Bismillah.
0:39:57 > 0:40:00- Oh, you've got to wash your mouth as well?- Mm.
0:40:00 > 0:40:04- Then your face.- Yeah. - Three times is better.
0:40:09 > 0:40:14I didn't know this. This is very thorough. It's a proper clean.
0:40:14 > 0:40:17- I thought it was just symbolic.- No.
0:40:17 > 0:40:19Once cleansed, Ezzedine takes me into the mosque,
0:40:19 > 0:40:23and while we wait for prayers he talks me through the decor.
0:40:23 > 0:40:27Because Islam regards figurative religious art as idolatry,
0:40:27 > 0:40:30a rich tradition of calligraphy has evolved.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33You don't have pictures on the walls, obviously. I understand why.
0:40:33 > 0:40:35So all this writing here, so what does all that say?
0:40:35 > 0:40:39This is the 99 names of Allah.
0:40:39 > 0:40:41OK. Does it say Allah there?
0:40:41 > 0:40:45No, it's just some names as Karim.
0:40:45 > 0:40:49- Which means...? - It means "the most generous".- Yeah.
0:40:49 > 0:40:53Or Hakim, which is "the one who has the knowledge".
0:40:53 > 0:40:55OK. That's 97 to go. Can you remember them all?
0:40:55 > 0:40:57HE SPEAKS ARABIC OK.
0:41:04 > 0:41:05You see, I can't check this.
0:41:05 > 0:41:07I can't check this because I don't speak Arabic.
0:41:07 > 0:41:10So give us some in English.
0:41:10 > 0:41:11"The generous".
0:41:11 > 0:41:12"The peace".
0:41:12 > 0:41:14"The knowledge".
0:41:33 > 0:41:36'I like the order and solemnity of it all
0:41:36 > 0:41:38'and especially the particular physical communion
0:41:38 > 0:41:42'as they all move together in a rhythm they are so familiar with.
0:41:48 > 0:41:52'Christians do a fair amount of sitting and standing and kneeling,
0:41:52 > 0:41:55'but the Catholic gymnastics I practise have nothing on this.
0:41:59 > 0:42:03'I must say, I find it really very easy to get swept along
0:42:03 > 0:42:05'with the quiet intensity of it all.'
0:42:08 > 0:42:11What I thought about the prayers today,
0:42:11 > 0:42:14it is very athletic.
0:42:14 > 0:42:17Even just sitting like this is difficult to me
0:42:17 > 0:42:19and the imam, look, it's easy for him.
0:42:19 > 0:42:21THEY LAUGH
0:42:22 > 0:42:25But you can... If you cannot,
0:42:25 > 0:42:28- you can pray and take a seat. - Yeah.
0:42:28 > 0:42:29It's possible.
0:42:29 > 0:42:33Like, even someone who could not move his body
0:42:33 > 0:42:36- could pray with only his eyes. - Yeah.
0:42:37 > 0:42:41- You smile a lot. He's always smiling. - Yeah.
0:42:41 > 0:42:43Is he the happiest imam in France?
0:42:55 > 0:42:59In Islam, the prophet Mohammed said
0:42:59 > 0:43:05when you give a smile to someone, it is like charity.
0:43:05 > 0:43:11I can imagine this imam preaching love and peace and tolerance.
0:43:11 > 0:43:14There are many imams who preach the opposite of that,
0:43:14 > 0:43:16even perhaps in this city.
0:43:16 > 0:43:18Mm-hm.
0:43:18 > 0:43:20So what does he say to them?
0:43:51 > 0:43:52It's hard work being a Muslim.
0:44:07 > 0:44:10The more complex this faith business becomes for me,
0:44:10 > 0:44:13the simpler it also becomes.
0:44:13 > 0:44:15The imam just got a smile on his face,
0:44:15 > 0:44:18radiated good humour and warmth.
0:44:18 > 0:44:20He couldn't have been more accommodating.
0:44:21 > 0:44:25And I love it that smiling is even recommended by the Prophet.
0:44:26 > 0:44:29I hate to oversimplify things, but look,
0:44:29 > 0:44:30that's just what it's all about.
0:44:32 > 0:44:35'The growing Muslim population creates all sorts of challenges,
0:44:35 > 0:44:37'not least in education.
0:44:37 > 0:44:40'State schools in France are entirely secular.
0:44:40 > 0:44:42'Faith schools are all private.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45'I am instinctively against faith schools,
0:44:45 > 0:44:48'worrying they just reinforce prejudice,
0:44:48 > 0:44:50'but Tour Sainte is a Catholic school
0:44:50 > 0:44:53'to which many Muslim parents choose to send their children.'
0:44:54 > 0:44:57So, this is a Muslim area
0:44:57 > 0:45:00- but this is a Roman Catholic school? - Yes, it is.
0:45:00 > 0:45:04So, what percentage of the school are Roman Catholic?
0:45:04 > 0:45:09- We have 80% of Muslims inside the school.- 80%?- Yes.
0:45:09 > 0:45:11So, it begs the question, why do they come here?
0:45:11 > 0:45:15They come here to have a good education.
0:45:15 > 0:45:21They know that teachers can follow them to succeed,
0:45:21 > 0:45:25and the second thing is, because we are a Catholic school
0:45:25 > 0:45:28and they can also find God inside the school.
0:45:28 > 0:45:33- But you are not trying to turn them into Christians?- No, not at all.
0:45:33 > 0:45:38- It's just because there is religion inside...- Yeah.- ..with a moral.
0:45:39 > 0:45:43So, what do you do about religious education here, then?
0:45:43 > 0:45:46It is a Catholic school, so you teach Catholic doctrine.
0:45:47 > 0:45:48Not really.
0:45:48 > 0:45:51We have, during the week,
0:45:51 > 0:45:55one hour which the subject is religions.
0:45:55 > 0:45:57With plural.
0:45:57 > 0:45:58It's an inter-faith thing?
0:45:58 > 0:46:01You are learning to respect each other's faiths?
0:46:01 > 0:46:02I have a Jewish teacher.
0:46:02 > 0:46:05He's an Italian teacher,
0:46:05 > 0:46:11and every two weeks there is an imam and Father Vincent who come.
0:46:11 > 0:46:13So, you've got a priest and an imam here?
0:46:13 > 0:46:16Yes, and they all talk with the children.
0:46:16 > 0:46:18For example, they can talk about Abraham
0:46:18 > 0:46:22and what we can share all together.
0:46:23 > 0:46:26It can't been easy for an imam to come here.
0:46:26 > 0:46:27- I had to find him!- Yeah.
0:46:27 > 0:46:31It's not easy, but some of the imam
0:46:31 > 0:46:34are open mind and they say, "OK, if I can help you
0:46:34 > 0:46:39"and make a dialogue with the pupils, no problem."
0:46:41 > 0:46:44I'm so impressed by Mme Sabatier's
0:46:44 > 0:46:46fiercely inter-faith approach to education,
0:46:46 > 0:46:50especially as her task is getting harder all the time.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54So, it sounds like some kind of paradise for me.
0:46:54 > 0:46:57- It is.- It sounds perfect, it sounds like...utopia.
0:46:57 > 0:46:59- SHE LAUGHS But it can't be that simple.- Mm.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01So, when does it stop being simple?
0:47:01 > 0:47:03OK, it...
0:47:03 > 0:47:08..it was like a paradise, but I can say that things are changing.
0:47:10 > 0:47:13The French are living through dark days
0:47:13 > 0:47:16in their battle against Islamic radicalisation.
0:47:16 > 0:47:20It's a challenge this head teacher confronts every day.
0:47:20 > 0:47:26Some of my pupils, they say, "I'm not more any French, I'm a Muslim."
0:47:26 > 0:47:29So we try to say you can be both.
0:47:29 > 0:47:35But they say, "No, France is not any more a welcome country."
0:47:35 > 0:47:39I say, "You were born here." So, what do you say?
0:47:39 > 0:47:42So, they don't know what they are
0:47:42 > 0:47:48and I think for this pupil all the doors are closing, you know?
0:47:48 > 0:47:51And they say, "My future is very complicated."
0:47:51 > 0:47:56"So now, I close my own doors and I say, "OK, I'm a Muslim.
0:47:56 > 0:48:00"You want to see me as a Muslim, I'm a Muslim."
0:48:00 > 0:48:04And my mother, she now has a hijab
0:48:04 > 0:48:11and we eat just halal, we go to the mosque on Friday
0:48:11 > 0:48:16and we know that these mosques are not official mosques.
0:48:16 > 0:48:17So, amidst all this,
0:48:17 > 0:48:20there's the Catholic parents, and the Jewish parents.
0:48:20 > 0:48:22What do they say to you?
0:48:22 > 0:48:27I just have just a few Jewish pupils,
0:48:27 > 0:48:29but they don't say they are Jewish.
0:48:29 > 0:48:32The Catholics are leaving the district.
0:48:32 > 0:48:37In September, we had 12 families who went away.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40Some of them left, they moved from Marseille,
0:48:40 > 0:48:42and some of them say,
0:48:42 > 0:48:47"We choose another school, because some of, Catholic school
0:48:47 > 0:48:53"next to me, they choose only Catholic families."
0:48:53 > 0:48:55You came here because you believe in inter-faith,
0:48:55 > 0:48:58- you believe...- Yes.- ..it's about God,
0:48:58 > 0:49:00that we're educated in God's eyes here,
0:49:00 > 0:49:02Muslims, Catholics, Jews, whatever you like.
0:49:02 > 0:49:04Do you still believe that?
0:49:04 > 0:49:08Yes, I'm optimistic, and I love all my pupils.
0:49:08 > 0:49:12I love them and I want them to have a good education
0:49:12 > 0:49:16so they could choose their own way.
0:49:21 > 0:49:24On this trip, and in fact, actually, in all my born days,
0:49:24 > 0:49:29I've never met...anybody more inspirational, I don't think.
0:49:29 > 0:49:32If only all head teachers could be like that,
0:49:32 > 0:49:33and I've met some really good ones.
0:49:33 > 0:49:36What she's trying to do is so difficult.
0:49:36 > 0:49:40But it's just so important. She needs...
0:49:40 > 0:49:41..you know, the help of the imam,
0:49:41 > 0:49:44there's lots in the Muslim community who wouldn't want her to succeed.
0:49:44 > 0:49:45There's probably...
0:49:45 > 0:49:48..lots in the Catholic community who wouldn't want her to succeed,
0:49:48 > 0:49:51but I just desperately want it to work for them.
0:49:51 > 0:49:53And...
0:49:53 > 0:49:56..it's so important that she succeeds. You know,
0:49:56 > 0:50:00if it doesn't work, that says something really dark and terrible.
0:50:00 > 0:50:03If it does, and if anyone can make it work it's her,
0:50:03 > 0:50:06then truly, I think there, there might be hope.
0:50:13 > 0:50:15The final destination on my journey
0:50:15 > 0:50:19is the sacred Catholic site of Montserrat in north-east Spain.
0:50:27 > 0:50:31As it's so close to Barcelona, it seems rude not to stop by.
0:50:31 > 0:50:33It's the first time I've seen this,
0:50:33 > 0:50:36one of its religious and architectural icons -
0:50:36 > 0:50:40Gaudi's famous modernist Basilica of the Sagrada Familia.
0:50:57 > 0:50:59To be honest, I'm not fussed about the Basilica.
0:50:59 > 0:51:03Pardon the pun, bit GAUDI. That, however, is impressive.
0:51:04 > 0:51:07DISTANT DRUMROLL
0:51:07 > 0:51:10Look how cute those little nippers are crawling up the side.
0:51:12 > 0:51:16APPLAUSE AND CHEERING
0:51:20 > 0:51:22I suppose dreaming up a monumental,
0:51:22 > 0:51:26bizarre-looking basilica is one way of showing your devotion to God.
0:51:29 > 0:51:31But I'm generally rather more moved
0:51:31 > 0:51:34by the countless simple acts of charity
0:51:34 > 0:51:36done in God's name the world over,
0:51:36 > 0:51:39the best example of which I've come across in Barcelona
0:51:39 > 0:51:43is Caliu, a community kitchen founded by five parish churches.
0:51:45 > 0:51:51The volunteers serve breakfast every day to as many as 250 people in need.
0:51:51 > 0:51:56I dragged myself out of bed at a most ungodly hour to see them at work.
0:51:58 > 0:51:59INDISTINCT
0:51:59 > 0:52:02- Hi.- Buenos dias.- Morning. - Hi, how are you?- How are you?
0:52:02 > 0:52:03Good to see you.
0:52:04 > 0:52:07So, tell me, how did you end up working here?
0:52:11 > 0:52:14Oh, you used to use it? Yeah.
0:52:18 > 0:52:19Yeah.
0:52:34 > 0:52:37So, does this make you less convinced about God,
0:52:37 > 0:52:39or more convinced about God?
0:52:42 > 0:52:45- The what, sorry?- Goodness. - Goodness, yes.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59Some priests will say you only see God through people,
0:52:59 > 0:53:02so when you see the goodness in people, you see God.
0:53:02 > 0:53:04That's it, that's it.
0:53:04 > 0:53:08What does this, what does this word mean, "Caliu"? What does it..
0:53:09 > 0:53:11Yeah.
0:53:12 > 0:53:14Yeah.
0:53:16 > 0:53:20- Can I have a big hug?- Of course. Please.- Yeah, there we go.
0:53:20 > 0:53:22Oh, that's nice.
0:53:24 > 0:53:25Yeah. A lot of hugging.
0:53:25 > 0:53:29Impressed no end by the cheerful and energetic humanity
0:53:29 > 0:53:33of all concerned, there's nothing for it but to get stuck in.
0:53:35 > 0:53:38I'm in charge of tray-wiping here.
0:53:38 > 0:53:40In fact, this guy's already called me out.
0:53:40 > 0:53:44My technique was somewhat ponderous, I think he was implying.
0:53:44 > 0:53:47He's told me to speed it up a bit. Is that OK? Better? Good?
0:53:47 > 0:53:49- Yeah.- Perfect.- Perfect.
0:53:49 > 0:53:51'Now, this is what I'm talking about,
0:53:51 > 0:53:55'good work done, however vaguely, in the service of God.
0:53:56 > 0:53:58'It's thought more than two million Spaniards
0:53:58 > 0:54:01'are relying on food banks and soup kitchens
0:54:01 > 0:54:03'like this one every day, just to get by.'
0:54:03 > 0:54:05- There you go.- There you are.
0:54:05 > 0:54:08- You see how clean my trays are?- Yes.
0:54:08 > 0:54:11You don't need a plate. You could eat it off that. Easy.
0:54:15 > 0:54:16I wondered when I was in there,
0:54:16 > 0:54:20is this anything to do with the church other than the funding? But...
0:54:20 > 0:54:23..I can't help feeling it gives it just a bit of extra oomph.
0:54:23 > 0:54:27It's not like everyone in there does it cos they think they're going to go to heaven.
0:54:27 > 0:54:28They just want to do a bit of good.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31They're thinking, "But for the grace of God, go I."
0:54:31 > 0:54:33It was very tangible in there,
0:54:33 > 0:54:36you could almost have tasted the compassion in the air.
0:54:40 > 0:54:44And so to journey's end in the mountains near Barcelona
0:54:44 > 0:54:47and the sanctuary of our Lady of Montserrat.
0:54:51 > 0:54:52This shrine to Mary
0:54:52 > 0:54:55has been an important site for Spanish Catholics
0:54:55 > 0:54:57since the ninth century.
0:54:57 > 0:54:59Back then, according to legend,
0:54:59 > 0:55:03a small statue of the Black Madonna, purportedly carved by St Luke,
0:55:03 > 0:55:05was discovered in a cave,
0:55:05 > 0:55:08having been hidden there 800 or so years earlier.
0:55:26 > 0:55:29The choir is just about the cutest thing you ever did see.
0:55:31 > 0:55:33And their singing is just as sweet.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39There's been a Benedictine monastery on this site
0:55:39 > 0:55:41for nearly 1,000 years.
0:55:41 > 0:55:45I find the sheer weight of that millennium of faith impressive,
0:55:45 > 0:55:47but also oppressive,
0:55:47 > 0:55:51'because I don't think I'll ever feel worthy of taking part.
0:55:51 > 0:55:53I'll never feel as sure about it all
0:55:53 > 0:55:57as everyone else seems to have done for time immemorial.
0:55:59 > 0:56:02It's my last chance on this quest to collar a cleric,
0:56:02 > 0:56:04so I grabbed a monk, so to speak,
0:56:04 > 0:56:07Father Mannell, to ask him if it is OK
0:56:07 > 0:56:11for this, in some ways committed Christian, to have his doubts.
0:56:12 > 0:56:16So, do you have absolute certainty in your mind
0:56:16 > 0:56:19about the reality of God and Jesus
0:56:19 > 0:56:21- and certain that Jesus is the Saviour?- No.
0:56:21 > 0:56:23- No, of course not. - Oh, God, I'm so glad you said that.
0:56:23 > 0:56:25I doubt people who are certain.
0:56:25 > 0:56:28That must not be faith, that must be vision.
0:56:28 > 0:56:30That's for eternity, that's for heaven.
0:56:30 > 0:56:32That's not for the life.
0:56:32 > 0:56:35There's a difference between faith and vision.
0:56:35 > 0:56:39Faith, of course, faith is allowed to have some,
0:56:39 > 0:56:42some doubts. I think that's quite normal.
0:56:42 > 0:56:44We can say...
0:56:44 > 0:56:46..in a normal way, of course,
0:56:46 > 0:56:50because without any doubt, without this absolute certainty,
0:56:50 > 0:56:52we will probably be, be in heaven,
0:56:52 > 0:56:57and then sharing the vision of God and not being on earth.
0:56:57 > 0:57:00'Well, that's a relief, to say the least.'
0:57:00 > 0:57:04I'm so glad I came all this way. It's been well worth it.
0:57:04 > 0:57:11'Many great people, several glorious old buildings, six countries,
0:57:11 > 0:57:16'three religions and one bewildered believer, edging just slightly closer
0:57:16 > 0:57:19'to understanding exactly what it is he does
0:57:19 > 0:57:22'and doesn't believe in.'
0:57:24 > 0:57:28'Way back when I was in Croatia, which feels like a lifetime ago now,
0:57:28 > 0:57:30'I set out to find
0:57:30 > 0:57:33'if Jews, Christians and Muslims are all the same.
0:57:33 > 0:57:37'I sort of asked, could I be a Jew, could I be a Muslim?'
0:57:37 > 0:57:40Actually, a daft question, and completely impossible to answer.
0:57:40 > 0:57:43What kind of Jew? What kind of Muslim?
0:57:43 > 0:57:44I'm quite sure
0:57:44 > 0:57:47that I have more in common with a liberal practising Jew
0:57:47 > 0:57:49or a liberal practising Muslim
0:57:49 > 0:57:53than I do with even a fairly conservative Roman Catholic.
0:57:56 > 0:57:58And for me, it's not about which religion,
0:57:58 > 0:58:03it's just how rigorously, how feverishly that religion is applied.
0:58:06 > 0:58:08If you think your way is the only way,
0:58:08 > 0:58:10your truth is the only absolute truth,
0:58:10 > 0:58:14then...I'm sorry, it's not for me.
0:58:14 > 0:58:18I'm not on your team, whichever team you happen to be on.
0:58:21 > 0:58:26All of this may merely indicate I lack the necessary conviction.
0:58:26 > 0:58:28But the truth is, I don't know.
0:58:28 > 0:58:32I can hope, I can believe - some days I believe more than others -
0:58:32 > 0:58:36but I don't see how I or anyone can ever know for sure.
0:58:38 > 0:58:41Not long ago, there was an atheist poster campaign advising us
0:58:41 > 0:58:47that there is probably no God, now stop worrying and enjoy your life.
0:58:47 > 0:58:51To which I dare to say I think there probably is a God,
0:58:51 > 0:58:54now stop worrying and enjoy your life.