0:00:03 > 0:00:04Men!
0:00:04 > 0:00:06And women.
0:00:06 > 0:00:09For centuries, people have argued ferociously about
0:00:09 > 0:00:12whether or not we are born with different brains.
0:00:12 > 0:00:14We have different roles in life
0:00:14 > 0:00:17and I think that's why our brains are wired differently.
0:00:17 > 0:00:20Men are definitely better at navigation and map reading.
0:00:20 > 0:00:24- Women panic a little bit more. - From experience? No.
0:00:24 > 0:00:27Now it seems we're getting close to an answer.
0:00:27 > 0:00:28I thought there must be a mistake.
0:00:28 > 0:00:33I'm not used to results of studies coming out as clean as this one.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36With new technology, scientists have recently identified
0:00:36 > 0:00:40subtle differences in the brains of men and women.
0:00:40 > 0:00:41It's more there.
0:00:42 > 0:00:46Differences that could help explain perceived strengths and weaknesses.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49I was surprised that they were so significantly different.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52Come on, Barbaries!
0:00:52 > 0:00:56But the research is controversial and raises difficult questions.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59Funny, but he's completely uninterested in the dolls.
0:00:59 > 0:01:02Are brain differences innate?
0:01:02 > 0:01:04Or are they shaped by the world around us?
0:01:04 > 0:01:07If somebody says the word "scientist" to you, what comes into your head?
0:01:07 > 0:01:09- Man.- A man.- Usually a man.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12Yeah, I get the image as well of a man.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15We're searching for the truth behind the myths.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18DIY doesn't tend to be one of their strong points.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20Men just act like they know everything
0:01:20 > 0:01:22and they don't necessarily.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24We'll be testing the science...
0:01:24 > 0:01:26Oh, no! Oh, God!
0:01:26 > 0:01:29..and challenging old stereotypes.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32No way! It's crazy, no way.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36We can go beyond the usual arguments about who's better at parking
0:01:36 > 0:01:38or who is better at reading emotions
0:01:38 > 0:01:40and have a look at some of the real science.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42We're going to look at research which has thrown up
0:01:42 > 0:01:45surprising sex differences, which may have important
0:01:45 > 0:01:47implications for science and our health.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02We live in an age of increased gender equality.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09But it often seems the division between the sexes has never been greater.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13As soon as we're born,
0:02:13 > 0:02:16boys and girls are encouraged to play in different ways.
0:02:16 > 0:02:22And all too often the justification is biology.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26Well, of course, we've all heard that men are from Mars
0:02:26 > 0:02:30and women are from Venus, but it seems that recently
0:02:30 > 0:02:34we've been inundated with popular science books and newspaper articles,
0:02:34 > 0:02:38all purporting to present us with the latest scientific evidence showing
0:02:38 > 0:02:42that there really are differences in male and female brains.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45Men are meant to be better at maths,
0:02:45 > 0:02:47women are meant to be better at reading
0:02:47 > 0:02:51and just about anything emotional, but for me, the really crucial claim
0:02:51 > 0:02:56is that these differences are hard wired in our brains.
0:02:58 > 0:03:00You might think it's all a bit of fun
0:03:00 > 0:03:05but in a country where fewer than three out of ten physics A-levels
0:03:05 > 0:03:08are taken by girls, where just 7% of engineers are women,
0:03:08 > 0:03:13and where men still earn on average nearly 20% more than their female colleagues,
0:03:13 > 0:03:18these scientific claims are powerful and potentially damaging.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26I don't think girls are the only losers in this debate.
0:03:26 > 0:03:28Boys face pressures too.
0:03:30 > 0:03:34In the modern world, so-called soft skills like communication
0:03:34 > 0:03:36and emotional intelligence, understanding what other people
0:03:36 > 0:03:39are thinking and feeling, are increasingly valued.
0:03:39 > 0:03:42So are boys missing out because they simply haven't had
0:03:42 > 0:03:44that side of themselves encouraged,
0:03:44 > 0:03:47or is something more fundamental going on?
0:03:50 > 0:03:51It's the age-old question -
0:03:51 > 0:03:55are the differences between the sexes the results of nature?
0:03:55 > 0:03:58Or is it nurture?
0:04:00 > 0:04:03I'll be looking at these possible differences
0:04:03 > 0:04:07in the brains of men and women and exploring to what extent
0:04:07 > 0:04:11they might be affected by environmental influences.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14And I'll be investigating the role that genes and hormones play
0:04:14 > 0:04:18in shaping our brains and our behaviour.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23But are men and women really all that different?
0:04:23 > 0:04:27Are men better at some things and women better at others?
0:04:27 > 0:04:30We're going to run some tests to find out.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37We've brought together six men and six women of different ages
0:04:37 > 0:04:41and backgrounds, different interests and professions.
0:04:43 > 0:04:47I think definitely men's brains are wired differently,
0:04:47 > 0:04:49typically from women's brains.
0:04:49 > 0:04:52Driving, I think men are a lot better at.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55Quite a lot of things, I think men are better at than women, actually.
0:04:55 > 0:05:00I think men don't seem to be particularly organised.
0:05:01 > 0:05:06I think women are good at, like, housing skills,
0:05:06 > 0:05:08like, obviously, washing up,
0:05:08 > 0:05:10but much more than that,
0:05:10 > 0:05:13like making sure the house is clean and stuff.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19First up, we're going to test a set of skills
0:05:19 > 0:05:23which many men believe they're naturally gifted at.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26Now, what the tests they're doing are measuring
0:05:26 > 0:05:27are visual spatial ability,
0:05:27 > 0:05:30the skill you need, for example, to navigate your way
0:05:30 > 0:05:35round an unknown city, also useful if you want to be an engineer.
0:05:37 > 0:05:40I think I'm pretty good at spatial awareness.
0:05:40 > 0:05:43I'm quite good at reading a map, quite a good sense of direction.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46Spatial awareness, I like to think I'm quite good.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49All men think they can map read and don't want to ask directions
0:05:49 > 0:05:51but I do think I'm very good.
0:05:51 > 0:05:53They just act like they know everything
0:05:53 > 0:05:55and they don't necessarily.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57Yeah, well, I'd go straight and find a map of the city,
0:05:57 > 0:06:00tourist information, and then you can find your way around.
0:06:00 > 0:06:01It's pretty simple.
0:06:03 > 0:06:04In this test,
0:06:04 > 0:06:08our volunteers must rotate a geometric shape in their heads.
0:06:10 > 0:06:12We've presented them with a master shape.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14When this shape is rotated,
0:06:14 > 0:06:19which two of the other four shapes does it match?
0:06:33 > 0:06:36The matching shapes were B and C.
0:06:36 > 0:06:38I thought I had it nailed,
0:06:38 > 0:06:40the first couple, but then I started to doubt myself
0:06:40 > 0:06:43so I found myself getting slower and slower.
0:06:43 > 0:06:46You try to turn them in your head and it's quite difficult
0:06:46 > 0:06:48and I was sort of like, "Ah!"
0:06:50 > 0:06:53Next, the line angle test.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58Our volunteers are presented with fan-shaped diagrams
0:06:58 > 0:07:01made up of lines placed at different angles.
0:07:01 > 0:07:05At the top of the page is a single line which they must then
0:07:05 > 0:07:07pick out from the main diagram.
0:07:21 > 0:07:23The answer was E.
0:07:25 > 0:07:27That angle one, it was quite difficult
0:07:27 > 0:07:30because there wasn't that much different in the angle.
0:07:30 > 0:07:32Not as obvious as you might expect, you know.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35Well, foolishly I was thinking, "Oh, it's different lengths,"
0:07:35 > 0:07:37so I'll guess which one is the length,
0:07:37 > 0:07:39so I got it completely wrong in my head.
0:07:39 > 0:07:41Although there were exceptions,
0:07:41 > 0:07:44on average, the men did slightly better than the women.
0:07:46 > 0:07:49Similar tests were recently completed online
0:07:49 > 0:07:51by over 200,000 people.
0:07:51 > 0:07:56Across 53 countries, men significantly outperformed women.
0:07:58 > 0:08:01But while men seemed to have the edge when it comes
0:08:01 > 0:08:02to some spatial skills,
0:08:02 > 0:08:06there are other fields where women are said to have an advantage.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10Women are better at reading people's emotions.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12Guys can be a bit less sensitive
0:08:12 > 0:08:16to people's needs or discomforts emotionally.
0:08:16 > 0:08:18You know, they just see the outside
0:08:18 > 0:08:21and they don't really understand sometimes.
0:08:23 > 0:08:28Of course, women are stereotypically meant to be better at emotions
0:08:28 > 0:08:30and empathy, but I think we really need
0:08:30 > 0:08:32to put that stereotype to the test.
0:08:35 > 0:08:38We're asking our volunteers to complete
0:08:38 > 0:08:41the Geneva Emotion Recognition Test.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47They're presented with a series of video clips of actors expressing
0:08:47 > 0:08:49a range of different emotions...
0:08:52 > 0:08:55..which they must then identify.
0:08:57 > 0:09:00The actors are speaking in a made-up language
0:09:00 > 0:09:04so our volunteers must rely on other means to gauge the correct emotion.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10The men and women who did our test seemed to have
0:09:10 > 0:09:12quite different experiences.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15I really enjoyed it, really enjoyed that test.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18The tone in their voice and the way they're moving,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21the whole body language, you have to take all that on board.
0:09:21 > 0:09:24That test for me was much easier than the spatial test.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27I found this one easier.
0:09:27 > 0:09:31I think I did OK but some parts made me feel quite sad
0:09:31 > 0:09:35when people were displaying the more sad or angry emotions.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38Couldn't understand what the people were saying, so to actually
0:09:38 > 0:09:40pick up people's emotions was a little bit more tricky.
0:09:44 > 0:09:46Well, I obviously didn't do very well.
0:09:46 > 0:09:51I think that may indicate perhaps that I pay more attention
0:09:51 > 0:09:55to the actual words and what people say, than other things
0:09:55 > 0:09:59like tone of voice, facial expression, gestures, etc.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05When the University of Geneva gave their emotion recognition test
0:10:05 > 0:10:07to nearly 300 men and women,
0:10:07 > 0:10:10the women scored slightly higher than the men,
0:10:10 > 0:10:12a result that's been closely replicated
0:10:12 > 0:10:14in similar tests around the world.
0:10:16 > 0:10:18Now, I think these behavioural differences
0:10:18 > 0:10:20are something we're born with.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23I don't think it's that simple.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27I think most differences are learned rather than hard-wired.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29Right, OK.
0:10:29 > 0:10:31Where do we go from here?
0:10:32 > 0:10:36So, Alice, do you accept the idea that, on average,
0:10:36 > 0:10:39men tend to do better at mental rotation tests
0:10:39 > 0:10:42and that women tend to perform better with emotional tests?
0:10:42 > 0:10:44Yeah, I think we have to accept that fact.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47What I would question is whether those differences
0:10:47 > 0:10:49are there right from the beginning.
0:10:49 > 0:10:52You know, are they somehow innate? Is it a learned aptitude?
0:10:52 > 0:10:55But I find it almost impossible to believe that the hormones
0:10:55 > 0:10:58you're exposed to in the womb don't also somehow influence
0:10:58 > 0:11:00how your brain architecture forms,
0:11:00 > 0:11:02and so that's what I want to find out.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04Yeah, we'll discuss it further.
0:11:04 > 0:11:06Yeah, maybe a bit of arm wrestling.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15There do seem to be some behavioural differences between men and women
0:11:15 > 0:11:18but we can't agree on what causes them.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22If Michael's right and these differences are hard-wired,
0:11:22 > 0:11:25then could there be some physical evidence inside our brains
0:11:25 > 0:11:27to support this?
0:11:28 > 0:11:31I'm an anatomist, and from what I know about the brain,
0:11:31 > 0:11:36it's surprisingly hard to link behavioural differences to anatomy.
0:11:38 > 0:11:43Right, this is a female brain and a male brain,
0:11:43 > 0:11:47and there's an enormous amount of debate about the differences
0:11:47 > 0:11:48between male and female brains,
0:11:48 > 0:11:52but there's one thing that everybody agrees on,
0:11:52 > 0:11:56and that is that men's brains tend to be larger than women's brains.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59But we have to remember that there is an enormous amount of variation
0:11:59 > 0:12:03within each sex as well, so in fact, there are some men
0:12:03 > 0:12:07with very small brains, and there are some women with very large brains,
0:12:07 > 0:12:08and here's an example.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11So this is also a male brain,
0:12:11 > 0:12:14and in fact it's, as you can see, it's a lot smaller than this brain.
0:12:14 > 0:12:16It's also a lot smaller than the female brain
0:12:16 > 0:12:17that we've got on the table.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24Although male brains are on average around 10% larger than female ones,
0:12:24 > 0:12:29scientists have found no difference in levels of intelligence.
0:12:29 > 0:12:34In IQ tests, men and women score more or less the same.
0:12:37 > 0:12:42As well as differences in the sizes of men and women's brains,
0:12:42 > 0:12:45it's been suggested that there are structures inside the brains
0:12:45 > 0:12:48that exhibit sex differences as well.
0:12:48 > 0:12:51One of them is the larger hypothalamus in a male
0:12:51 > 0:12:53compared with a female, so this is the connection
0:12:53 > 0:12:56between the brain and the system of hormones
0:12:56 > 0:13:00that communicate with the testes in a man, the ovaries in a woman.
0:13:00 > 0:13:03So I would expect there to be differences here that relate
0:13:03 > 0:13:06to differences in reproductive physiology,
0:13:06 > 0:13:08and nobody can deny that those differences exist,
0:13:08 > 0:13:11but we don't yet know actually what the differences
0:13:11 > 0:13:13in the hypothalamus relate to.
0:13:13 > 0:13:16They're not necessarily to do with differences
0:13:16 > 0:13:19in the way that men and women think and behave.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22This is another area which has been picked up on as being different
0:13:22 > 0:13:26in the brains of men and women, and this is called the hippocampus,
0:13:26 > 0:13:30and this is involved in memory, and part of this area here
0:13:30 > 0:13:34has been shown to be larger in women compared with men.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39Unfortunately, when the researchers looked at the differences
0:13:39 > 0:13:43in size of the hippocampus that they'd found amongst their subjects,
0:13:43 > 0:13:47male and female, and then looked at the performances of those people
0:13:47 > 0:13:49in memory tests, they found no link at all.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53So I think it's clear that even if we can pick up on differences
0:13:53 > 0:13:57in the detailed structure of the brains of men and women,
0:13:57 > 0:13:59that doesn't necessarily translate
0:13:59 > 0:14:01into obvious differences in behaviour.
0:14:02 > 0:14:06The relationship between structure and function in the brain
0:14:06 > 0:14:07is incredibly complex,
0:14:07 > 0:14:11and we're a long way from understanding the fine detail.
0:14:11 > 0:14:15But more important is searching for the reasons for sex differences
0:14:15 > 0:14:18and I think it's obvious.
0:14:21 > 0:14:22From the earliest age,
0:14:22 > 0:14:27there's a clear divide in what's expected of boys and girls.
0:14:28 > 0:14:30Children must make stark choices.
0:14:34 > 0:14:36Between a world of pink...
0:14:38 > 0:14:40..and a world of blue.
0:14:40 > 0:14:42Should they play with the digger?
0:14:44 > 0:14:46Or with the doll?
0:14:46 > 0:14:49Should they be a pirate?
0:14:49 > 0:14:51Or a princess?
0:14:51 > 0:14:54Well, I've got a one-year-old boy and a four-year-old little girl,
0:14:54 > 0:14:56and I think until I became a mum,
0:14:56 > 0:15:01I didn't realise just how rigid this gender division was.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04It didn't seem to have been as pronounced
0:15:04 > 0:15:07when I was growing up, and it does make me worry
0:15:07 > 0:15:10because I don't want either of them to be limited in their choices
0:15:10 > 0:15:13just because they don't conform
0:15:13 > 0:15:16to either the blue or the pink stereotypes.
0:15:17 > 0:15:22I'm not sure that cultural forces are as powerful as Alice thinks.
0:15:22 > 0:15:25Maybe the stereotypes have their roots in nature.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29I have three sons and a daughter.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32Now, my sons do have their sensitive side,
0:15:32 > 0:15:34and my daughter really likes maths,
0:15:34 > 0:15:38but when they were growing up, the toys they chose to play with,
0:15:38 > 0:15:42well, they absolutely conformed to the stereotype.
0:15:48 > 0:15:52Across the world, on average, little boys and little girls
0:15:52 > 0:15:56are remarkably similar in what they choose to play with.
0:15:56 > 0:15:57This is Jasper.
0:15:57 > 0:16:03He loves his trucks, sirens, fire engines, ambulances, diggers.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06Any wheels of any sort.
0:16:07 > 0:16:09This is Hadrian, he's fascinated by cars.
0:16:09 > 0:16:13Like, when we go along the street, he's always pointing at them.
0:16:13 > 0:16:14This is Eric.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18He likes to play with, obviously, cars and anything with wheels.
0:16:20 > 0:16:21The bigger, the better.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24Anything noisy like double deckers, he loves them.
0:16:24 > 0:16:28By 18 months, most boys show a consistent preference
0:16:28 > 0:16:30for cars and trucks.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33For girls, it's a different story.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37Joanna, she loves her dolls and teddies, especially.
0:16:37 > 0:16:40She's got a little elephant teddy that she puts her dummy on.
0:16:41 > 0:16:46This is Payton and she sort of naturally gravitates towards, like,
0:16:46 > 0:16:48she likes her dolls and she likes Teddy.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51Joanna's little boy friends, you know,
0:16:51 > 0:16:55they are definitely more into the diggers and bashing things.
0:16:57 > 0:17:01So are parents responsible for these toy choices?
0:17:01 > 0:17:05I never showed him how to use a stick as a sword.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07He did it instinctively.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09I never said she has to play with dolls.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12Automatically, she goes for those toys.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15I think it's something that's instinctive.
0:17:15 > 0:17:17But are they right?
0:17:21 > 0:17:25In 2002, psychologists dreamt up a very clever experiment
0:17:25 > 0:17:27to discover answers.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31If you want to find out if toy preferences
0:17:31 > 0:17:34are in any sense innate, well, you have a big problem,
0:17:34 > 0:17:38because children from the earliest age are exposed to all sorts
0:17:38 > 0:17:42of pressures, but the scientists did find one group where they could
0:17:42 > 0:17:47guarantee they had not been exposed to any gender stereotypes.
0:17:49 > 0:17:51Monkeys!
0:17:57 > 0:18:00We've come to Woburn Safari Park in Bedfordshire
0:18:00 > 0:18:02to try out our own experiment.
0:18:04 > 0:18:06The monkeys here are Barbary macaques.
0:18:08 > 0:18:10OK, lots of lovely toys.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15So we've got a mixture of dolls and trucks in here.
0:18:15 > 0:18:17Tom Robson is one of their keepers.
0:18:17 > 0:18:18I have a couple of dolls for you.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21Marvellous, thank you very much.
0:18:21 > 0:18:22In the original experiment,
0:18:22 > 0:18:25the psychologists presented the monkeys
0:18:25 > 0:18:28with typical boy-type toys, trucks and cars,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31and girl-type toys, mostly dolls.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37Very hard to believe that monkeys have a sort of,
0:18:37 > 0:18:40a toy preference, but we shall see.
0:18:42 > 0:18:46The psychologists then observed which toys the monkeys
0:18:46 > 0:18:49preferred to play with and for what length of time.
0:18:49 > 0:18:52Barbary! Come on!
0:18:52 > 0:18:55Barbaries!
0:18:55 > 0:18:59Come on, Barbaries!
0:18:59 > 0:19:01- Shall I join in? - Yeah.
0:19:01 > 0:19:03Come on, Barbaries!
0:19:03 > 0:19:04Oh, somebody can hear.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06We've got someone coming over.
0:19:06 > 0:19:07Male, female?
0:19:07 > 0:19:11This is one of the males coming over.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13Oh, so we've got a male picking up a truck.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15That is quite interesting.
0:19:15 > 0:19:17You can see, he's gone for the trucks.
0:19:17 > 0:19:18But, yeah, we'll see if he comes...
0:19:18 > 0:19:21He's started moving the wheels a bit, which is surprising.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25A few more coming over now.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30Who's picking up the car over there?
0:19:30 > 0:19:34That's another male. Yes, they're spinning the wheels.
0:19:36 > 0:19:38Any girls in on the action yet?
0:19:38 > 0:19:42Yeah, this is a girl there, so Zoe, going for the doll.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45She's quite interested, isn't she?
0:19:47 > 0:19:51And then this is also a female here, she's called Blondie.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53The way they'll investigate is they'll kind of hold it up,
0:19:53 > 0:19:55sniff it, chew on it.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59That's a little boy, just there.
0:19:59 > 0:20:00Kind of running off with the truck.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02Yeah, he's going like, "This is mine now."
0:20:02 > 0:20:05Yeah, looks like he might go to the top of the tree.
0:20:05 > 0:20:06So is he going to defend his truck?
0:20:06 > 0:20:08Yeah, looks like those little males going up.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11They all want your truck.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14And so far the boys have really only displayed interest in the trucks.
0:20:14 > 0:20:16Yeah, they've kind of just picked up the trucks.
0:20:16 > 0:20:18- He's climbed on the truck. - Yeah, he's sat on the truck.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21He obviously thinks that's kind of a bit like a car, isn't it?
0:20:22 > 0:20:26In the original experiment, the male monkeys played with
0:20:26 > 0:20:29the male-type toys for twice as long
0:20:29 > 0:20:31as they did with the female-type toys.
0:20:31 > 0:20:34So that's a little boy that's having a look at that doll there.
0:20:34 > 0:20:36- He's not sure, is he? - No.
0:20:36 > 0:20:40Our results were even more clear-cut.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43The males barely touched the dolls
0:20:43 > 0:20:48while the females showed hardly any interest in the trucks.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50Trucks don't seem to turn these girls on very much.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53No, they're not really interested, are they?
0:20:54 > 0:20:58The monkey toy preference experiment was controversial
0:20:58 > 0:21:02but it has been repeated twice elsewhere with similar results.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08That was really charming but also quite surprising
0:21:08 > 0:21:11because those monkeys have not been socialised at all.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14They have not been exposed to adverts, they haven't been told
0:21:14 > 0:21:17what sort of toys they should play with, and yet the male monkeys
0:21:17 > 0:21:20went out there and the only toys they were interested in
0:21:20 > 0:21:21were the trucks.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24The girls were the only ones who displayed any interest at all
0:21:24 > 0:21:29in the dolls, so I think that was certainly very convincing.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33The results were also surprising for one of the leaders
0:21:33 > 0:21:35of the original experiment.
0:21:36 > 0:21:39The results changed the way
0:21:39 > 0:21:41I thought about these toys
0:21:41 > 0:21:43and, I think, to some extent the way
0:21:43 > 0:21:46other people are thinking about these toys.
0:21:46 > 0:21:50Previously people had thought that we encouraged children
0:21:50 > 0:21:53to play with different toys based on their gender
0:21:53 > 0:21:56to prepare them for different gender roles in adulthood.
0:21:56 > 0:22:00So, for instance, men usually drive the family car, so people thought,
0:22:00 > 0:22:04well, boys are given cars as a kind of rehearsal for that.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06Women do most of the child care.
0:22:06 > 0:22:10Girls are given dolls as a rehearsal for that.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12And this did seem a plausible explanation
0:22:12 > 0:22:15for the female monkeys' toy choices.
0:22:15 > 0:22:20Of course, in most primates, females do most of the child care
0:22:20 > 0:22:24so these animals will have observed females interacting with babies
0:22:24 > 0:22:28more than males interacting with babies, and so that could be
0:22:28 > 0:22:32part of the explanation why they spend more time with the dolls.
0:22:33 > 0:22:37But the male monkeys' toy choices were baffling.
0:22:37 > 0:22:42What is it about a car that a male monkey is interested in?
0:22:42 > 0:22:45And we thought it might be the shape.
0:22:45 > 0:22:49We thought it might be the colour, but we tested those possibilities
0:22:49 > 0:22:53and we don't think that either of those are the explanation.
0:22:53 > 0:22:58We think it's probably something about how it can be moved in space,
0:22:58 > 0:23:04and we're looking at the possibility that a male brain is more likely
0:23:04 > 0:23:07to enjoy watching things move in space.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17So what is going on?
0:23:17 > 0:23:22What is it that makes males - monkeys, boys or men -
0:23:22 > 0:23:25behave in this way?
0:23:25 > 0:23:31I've come to Cambridge University to meet Professor Simon Baron-Cohen.
0:23:31 > 0:23:35For over 25 years, he's been studying autism, which affects
0:23:35 > 0:23:38nearly five times as many boys as girls.
0:23:38 > 0:23:42He believes autism represents the extreme male brain
0:23:42 > 0:23:47and that hormones help shape brain sex differences.
0:23:47 > 0:23:48What's the idea here?
0:23:48 > 0:23:50We've got a test which, I guess,
0:23:50 > 0:23:52really measures one aspect
0:23:52 > 0:23:54of spatial ability.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57It's about the number of seconds it takes you to find the target shape
0:23:57 > 0:23:58in the overall design.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01- That's actually surprisingly difficult, looking at it.- It is.
0:24:14 > 0:24:19Now, I'm looking at a square there and it's not there.
0:24:19 > 0:24:20I think it's there.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22That's very good. We can show you, actually.
0:24:22 > 0:24:25- OK, yeah.- Which is exactly where you pinpointed it
0:24:25 > 0:24:29and you were pretty quick, and research shows that on average
0:24:29 > 0:24:33males are faster than females at finding the target shape.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36We've also given this test to people with autism
0:24:36 > 0:24:40and people with autism are even faster than typical males.
0:24:40 > 0:24:45So they seem to be drawn to detail and they love patterns,
0:24:45 > 0:24:47and they love to break things down into components,
0:24:47 > 0:24:51and this test was one of the starting points for the idea
0:24:51 > 0:24:54that there are sex differences, and that people with autism
0:24:54 > 0:24:59may simply show an extreme of the typical male profile.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04Simon has been gathering compelling evidence
0:25:04 > 0:25:09that these behavioural differences could be shaped by what happens
0:25:09 > 0:25:11to babies as they develop in the womb.
0:25:13 > 0:25:17Well, we've been looking at hormones and particularly testosterone,
0:25:17 > 0:25:21the so-called male hormone, although both sexes of course produce it.
0:25:21 > 0:25:25But males produce more of this hormone than females
0:25:25 > 0:25:29and we're measuring the hormone in the amniotic fluid in women
0:25:29 > 0:25:33who are pregnant, and then we wait for the baby to be born
0:25:33 > 0:25:37and look at whether there's any relationship between
0:25:37 > 0:25:41pre-natal testosterone and the child's behaviour.
0:25:42 > 0:25:45And we've been calling in the children pretty much every year
0:25:45 > 0:25:50since the late '90s, and it's been a fascinating journey, really.
0:25:50 > 0:25:55Simon has discovered the levels of testosterone babies are exposed to
0:25:55 > 0:25:59in the womb may affect how they behave many years later.
0:25:59 > 0:26:03We found that testosterone shows a positive correlation
0:26:03 > 0:26:07- with systemising. - So what is systemising?
0:26:08 > 0:26:12So systemising is all about the drive to analyse a system.
0:26:14 > 0:26:16And systems come in many varieties.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19You know, we've got a computer here as an example of that.
0:26:19 > 0:26:21It could be a truck. So you're kind of taking it apart
0:26:21 > 0:26:23and putting it together and playing around,
0:26:23 > 0:26:27- because that's the sort of thing you associate with men, isn't it? - Exactly.
0:26:29 > 0:26:32So train spotting, is that systemising?
0:26:32 > 0:26:34Well, that's a sort of another kind of system.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38You can find that males as a group score higher on the systemising.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43Simon's study has also been looking into the impact
0:26:43 > 0:26:45of testosterone on social development.
0:26:47 > 0:26:50The higher the child's pre-natal testosterone,
0:26:50 > 0:26:52the slower they are to develop socially.
0:26:52 > 0:26:56For example, they're showing less eye contact at their first birthday,
0:26:56 > 0:27:01and it now turns out that if you have higher testosterone,
0:27:01 > 0:27:04your brain is said to be masculinised.
0:27:04 > 0:27:08That's to say it resembles more a typical male brain.
0:27:08 > 0:27:12We've also found that when we've called in the children
0:27:12 > 0:27:13to give them tests like this,
0:27:13 > 0:27:17that the children with higher levels of pre-natal testosterone
0:27:17 > 0:27:22are faster to find the target shape hidden within the overall design.
0:27:27 > 0:27:30I thought that was absolutely fascinating.
0:27:30 > 0:27:34Simon's research clearly suggests that from the earliest age,
0:27:34 > 0:27:36hormones help to shape our behaviour.
0:27:36 > 0:27:38But what's going on up here?
0:27:38 > 0:27:42Is there any real evidence that men and women are wired differently?
0:27:45 > 0:27:47It's certainly a commonly held belief.
0:27:47 > 0:27:51I just think men and women were created to be different.
0:27:51 > 0:27:52We have different roles in life
0:27:52 > 0:27:55and I think that's why our brains are wired differently.
0:27:55 > 0:28:01Men are very focused and, you know, they, they are very decisive.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04Men are definitely better decision-makers.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07I think women can sometimes flip between different options more.
0:28:07 > 0:28:11Using my wife as an example, it's a bit more sort of talking,
0:28:11 > 0:28:15planning, talking about it, planning, planning some more.
0:28:17 > 0:28:19Men are good at one thing at a time.
0:28:19 > 0:28:22I think girls are better at multi-tasking.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24Whereas women have to do the one thing
0:28:24 > 0:28:26and do everything else around it.
0:28:26 > 0:28:28She is better at multi-tasking than I am. That is true.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31I'm not saying that men can't multi-task
0:28:31 > 0:28:35but I think it's something that women are naturally able to do.
0:28:35 > 0:28:38I consider myself good at multi-tasking
0:28:38 > 0:28:40because I am a drummer and lead singer,
0:28:40 > 0:28:44so I'm good at doing different things at the same time, so...
0:28:51 > 0:28:55The stereotypes are certainly strong and it often seems
0:28:55 > 0:28:59like our brains must be wired differently from birth,
0:28:59 > 0:29:01but what's the real evidence?
0:29:01 > 0:29:04Well, a team of scientists in Philadelphia has matched
0:29:04 > 0:29:08the microscopic connections within male and female brains
0:29:08 > 0:29:11and what they've found is astonishing.
0:29:11 > 0:29:13I am fascinated by gender differences
0:29:13 > 0:29:16because I see gender differences in my day-to-day life, you know.
0:29:16 > 0:29:20My guy friends are completely different from my girl friends.
0:29:20 > 0:29:22So the idea was to try and find out
0:29:22 > 0:29:24whether there is a difference
0:29:24 > 0:29:26overall between men and women
0:29:26 > 0:29:30in how each part of the brain talks to another part of the brain.
0:29:30 > 0:29:34Right, I want to do pretty much the same scan again.
0:29:34 > 0:29:37Dr Verma and her colleagues scanned the brains
0:29:37 > 0:29:41of over 900 males and females from the ages of eight to 22.
0:29:42 > 0:29:45It's more granular on this side than on that side.
0:29:45 > 0:29:49They used an established brain imaging technique to create
0:29:49 > 0:29:51a detailed map of the connections
0:29:51 > 0:29:54between the two hemispheres of the brain,
0:29:54 > 0:29:59hemispheres which they believe have quite different functions.
0:30:00 > 0:30:06The left hemisphere is the part of the brain that talks,
0:30:06 > 0:30:11understands language and processes the world in an analytic
0:30:11 > 0:30:16sequential manner, whereas the right hemisphere is more intuitive,
0:30:16 > 0:30:22deals with spatial information, deals with emotional information.
0:30:22 > 0:30:25The team's research showed different patterns of connection
0:30:25 > 0:30:29between the brain hemispheres of men and women.
0:30:30 > 0:30:33The study indicates that those connections
0:30:33 > 0:30:35between the two hemispheres are much stronger
0:30:35 > 0:30:38and more prevalent in women than in men,
0:30:38 > 0:30:42and from here we can conclude that the ability to use both the
0:30:42 > 0:30:48verbal analytic and the emotional information is enhanced in women.
0:30:48 > 0:30:52So could more connections between the hemispheres explain some
0:30:52 > 0:30:55types of typical female behaviour?
0:30:55 > 0:30:59The fact that you can connect from different regions of the brain, you
0:30:59 > 0:31:02ought to be good at multi-tasking
0:31:02 > 0:31:05and if you have multiple regions connected together,
0:31:05 > 0:31:07you should be better at an emotional task.
0:31:07 > 0:31:12And do they fit certain stereotypes? Perhaps, yes.
0:31:12 > 0:31:18The neural pathways in male brains follow a strikingly different pattern.
0:31:18 > 0:31:20What we see in males is stronger connections
0:31:20 > 0:31:23between the back and the front of the brain.
0:31:23 > 0:31:27The back of the brain processes the information
0:31:27 > 0:31:28and sends it forward to the brain
0:31:28 > 0:31:32and the front of the brain decides what, puts it all together
0:31:32 > 0:31:33and decides what to do about it.
0:31:33 > 0:31:38So it indicates males have stronger ability to
0:31:38 > 0:31:40connect between what they see and what they do
0:31:40 > 0:31:44which is essentially what you need to do if you are a hunter.
0:31:44 > 0:31:47You see something, you need to respond right away.
0:31:51 > 0:31:55The team detected differences in neurological pathways
0:31:55 > 0:31:58in male and female brains on a remarkable scale.
0:32:00 > 0:32:03I was surprised that they were so significantly different.
0:32:03 > 0:32:10When I first saw the figure that came out, I thought
0:32:10 > 0:32:11there must be a mistake.
0:32:11 > 0:32:16I'm not used to results of studies coming out as clean as this one.
0:32:16 > 0:32:17That was quite startling.
0:32:19 > 0:32:21But that's not the end of the story.
0:32:21 > 0:32:25Although the scientists identified stark differences
0:32:25 > 0:32:27in men and women's neural pathways,
0:32:27 > 0:32:30they didn't find those differences in children.
0:32:31 > 0:32:35The differences only seem to develop in the teenage years which
0:32:35 > 0:32:40means they could be the result of social pressure rather than innate.
0:32:41 > 0:32:46Most of these differences happened between the age range of 13 to 18
0:32:46 > 0:32:50and you could see them very prominently at that time
0:32:50 > 0:32:54so there is a whole nature versus nurture issue.
0:32:54 > 0:32:57It's very difficult to figure out why the structural
0:32:57 > 0:32:59connections happen.
0:32:59 > 0:33:03Whether it's due to hormones or stereotyping, you would never know.
0:33:03 > 0:33:07You would have to take 600 boys and make them grow up as girls
0:33:07 > 0:33:11and girls grow up as boys and then say, "Aha, this is the reason".
0:33:11 > 0:33:13So I don't know how to answer that question.
0:33:16 > 0:33:19The research in Philadelphia has been heavily criticised
0:33:19 > 0:33:21but it does prompt us to ask
0:33:21 > 0:33:26when and why do differences between men and women arise.
0:33:26 > 0:33:29For me, this is the really critical question.
0:33:29 > 0:33:34If we are finding behaviour differences between men and women
0:33:34 > 0:33:37that may or may not be reflected in the structure of their brains,
0:33:37 > 0:33:41how much are those behavioural differences coming from
0:33:41 > 0:33:47basic biology, how much are they a product of the society we live in?
0:33:49 > 0:33:50Hello, this is Abi.
0:33:50 > 0:33:52Hi, Abi, how are you doing?
0:33:52 > 0:33:54'We're staging an experiment.
0:33:54 > 0:33:56'We're introducing Ali to baby Abi.
0:33:58 > 0:34:01'We want to find out if there's more than just instinct at play
0:34:01 > 0:34:03'when it comes to children's toy choices.
0:34:05 > 0:34:10'Abi's mum is joining me to see how they get on but there's a twist.
0:34:10 > 0:34:15'What Ali doesn't know is that baby Abi is really a little boy.'
0:34:16 > 0:34:21So this is really interesting because Ali has just chosen
0:34:21 > 0:34:27this little pink girl doll as the first toy to give to Abi.
0:34:27 > 0:34:29She's wearing the same colour as you.
0:34:29 > 0:34:32It's really cute. Look, he's going to pick the other one up now as well
0:34:32 > 0:34:34so he's off to the rag doll.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38But he hasn't reached for the ball or the van.
0:34:38 > 0:34:40No, he hasn't, has he?
0:34:40 > 0:34:43And that little truck that is just there within reach.
0:34:43 > 0:34:45It hasn't been touched, has it?
0:34:45 > 0:34:48No, I mean, you know he's definitely gone for the dolls first.
0:34:48 > 0:34:52"Oh, you're a little girl, you'll probably want to play with dolls."
0:34:54 > 0:34:57Hi. Here we go, this is Freddie.
0:34:57 > 0:35:01'Next, baby Freddie is being introduced to Hayley.'
0:35:03 > 0:35:04Do you want to play with the car?
0:35:06 > 0:35:08'What Hayley doesn't know
0:35:08 > 0:35:12'is that Freddie is actually a little girl named Freya.'
0:35:12 > 0:35:13The fire truck?
0:35:16 > 0:35:20- Hello! - What's she doing?
0:35:20 > 0:35:22It's been quite interesting so far, actually.
0:35:22 > 0:35:23There was a car and so she picked that up
0:35:23 > 0:35:26and started playing with it first and then the next toy was
0:35:26 > 0:35:28a purple truck and the next one was a cement mixer.
0:35:28 > 0:35:31Definitely for the boys, the boys classically.
0:35:33 > 0:35:36She really wants her to play with the ball.
0:35:38 > 0:35:40She pushed it away!
0:35:40 > 0:35:43- That's really weird. - "I'm not playing with that.
0:35:43 > 0:35:44"What are you talking about?"
0:35:46 > 0:35:50It seems most children have much less choice than you might
0:35:50 > 0:35:52think in the kinds of toys they get to play with
0:35:52 > 0:35:56and their gender identities are being powerfully shaped
0:35:56 > 0:35:57from the earliest age.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02What toys was the baby interested in?
0:36:02 > 0:36:05I think Abi was interested in the doll at first.
0:36:05 > 0:36:08I thought she might be cos I thought it was a model of her a little bit.
0:36:08 > 0:36:11So balls and trucks and things, what did she think of those?
0:36:11 > 0:36:14I don't really think she was that into them, not so much.
0:36:14 > 0:36:17I think most of the girlie toys, I guess.
0:36:17 > 0:36:20Yeah. So Abi is actually Alfie.
0:36:20 > 0:36:25- This is actually a little boy that you were playing with.- No way!- Yes.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27- THEY LAUGH - That's crazy, no way!
0:36:27 > 0:36:28I have to reveal something to you here.
0:36:28 > 0:36:31- That was actually a little girl. - Oh! Interesting experiment.
0:36:31 > 0:36:35It is interesting. I'm so sorry to be so sneaky.
0:36:35 > 0:36:37So does that make you think differently about the toys maybe?
0:36:37 > 0:36:41- I would have never thought it. It looked like a little girl.- Yeah.
0:36:42 > 0:36:45The toy experiment reveals just how differently
0:36:45 > 0:36:47girls and boys are treated.
0:36:49 > 0:36:52But what about more subtle forms of gender stereotyping,
0:36:52 > 0:36:55stereotyping that perhaps even adults who are very
0:36:55 > 0:36:59conscious of trying to avoid gender bias are still prone to?
0:37:03 > 0:37:07We're recreating an experiment that explored the degree to which
0:37:07 > 0:37:11parents push their children and what they expect of them.
0:37:11 > 0:37:15In infancy, boys and girls' average crawling ability is the same
0:37:15 > 0:37:19despite small differences in size.
0:37:19 > 0:37:21But do we treat boys and girls differently?
0:37:24 > 0:37:27So, Chloe, this is our experiment,
0:37:27 > 0:37:29a bizarre looking contraption,
0:37:29 > 0:37:32and the whole point of it is that you can raise this end
0:37:32 > 0:37:34so you can make the slope steeper
0:37:34 > 0:37:39and what we're interested in is how steep a slope Alice will crawl down.
0:37:39 > 0:37:41I'd like you to raise it to what you think
0:37:41 > 0:37:44she can actually successfully crawl down.
0:37:46 > 0:37:48'Baby Alice is 14 months old.
0:37:48 > 0:37:53'Her mum reckons she can crawl from a height of 52 centimetres.'
0:37:53 > 0:37:54Let's have a go then.
0:37:55 > 0:37:58Look, there's a bunny. Look, look, look.
0:38:00 > 0:38:01And she did! You were right.
0:38:03 > 0:38:07Next up is baby Josh, who's about the same age and weight as baby Alice.
0:38:07 > 0:38:11So I think he'd actually be able to manage quite a high ramp.
0:38:21 > 0:38:24Yeah - a bit more.
0:38:25 > 0:38:29'It looks like Josh's mum thinks he can crawl from a considerably
0:38:29 > 0:38:33'higher height than baby Alice, 12 centimetres higher.'
0:38:33 > 0:38:35He's quite a fearless boy as well.
0:38:35 > 0:38:36That's quite ambitious.
0:38:36 > 0:38:39That's 67 centimetres high at this end of the ramp.
0:38:39 > 0:38:43Yeah, I definitely think he'd be able to manage that. Come on!
0:38:45 > 0:38:49- Yeah! Good boy. - He can do it.
0:38:51 > 0:38:56We tried the same test with two slighter younger children of similar ages.
0:38:56 > 0:39:00Gracie's mum thought she could cope with a height of 36 centimetres.
0:39:03 > 0:39:05Easy! She can do it.
0:39:05 > 0:39:07I'm so impressed.
0:39:08 > 0:39:09'But Alfie's mum thought
0:39:09 > 0:39:13he could climb from a height of 43 centimetres.'
0:39:13 > 0:39:15He's doing it, he's doing it really well.
0:39:17 > 0:39:21'In fact, in the original experiment with over 100 babies
0:39:21 > 0:39:23'who displayed the same average crawling ability,
0:39:23 > 0:39:28'parents estimated boys' crawling ability was higher than girls.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32'It seems that from a very young age, parents may be
0:39:32 > 0:39:37'pushing their boys to achieve in a way they just don't do for girls.'
0:39:39 > 0:39:41If this is true of wider society,
0:39:41 > 0:39:45what's the effect of that on our children's development?
0:39:45 > 0:39:48Could it be limiting their choices in some way?
0:39:48 > 0:39:51Could it be affecting what they end up doing in adulthood even?
0:39:57 > 0:39:59I was very lucky.
0:39:59 > 0:40:03Thinking back particularly to my teenage years, I don't
0:40:03 > 0:40:07remember feeling that my choices were at all dictated by my gender.
0:40:08 > 0:40:12I've come to Dunraven School in south London to speak to
0:40:12 > 0:40:14students studying GCSE science.
0:40:15 > 0:40:19I want to find out if they're going to continue with science for A level
0:40:19 > 0:40:23and whether perceptions of gender might be affecting their choices.
0:40:23 > 0:40:26You're completely segregating yourselves into male and female.
0:40:26 > 0:40:28SHE LAUGHS
0:40:29 > 0:40:34So do you think that boys are better at some subjects than others?
0:40:35 > 0:40:36Who likes maths?
0:40:38 > 0:40:41So definitely more of you boys.
0:40:41 > 0:40:45Most girls that I know do art and dance and drama, that sort of thing.
0:40:45 > 0:40:48I don't really know anybody who does maths or physics or science.
0:40:48 > 0:40:52The more mathematical and challenging subjects is towards the boys.
0:40:52 > 0:40:57Girls tend to choose other subjects instead of like physics and maths.
0:40:57 > 0:40:58So what about physics then?
0:40:58 > 0:41:00Is that more of a masculine subject then would you say?
0:41:00 > 0:41:04I think so because most people think boys like maths more
0:41:04 > 0:41:07and in physics there's a lot of maths involved.
0:41:07 > 0:41:09I don't see myself doing it as A levels
0:41:09 > 0:41:12because I've heard it's quite challenging.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14I don't know, it's not my type of thing.
0:41:14 > 0:41:16I'm more towards like creative stuff.
0:41:16 > 0:41:18I'm not exactly sure what I want to do
0:41:18 > 0:41:21but I know I want it to be something creative.
0:41:21 > 0:41:24I think I'll probably just take like my interests
0:41:24 > 0:41:26and what I like doing which is creative stuff.
0:41:26 > 0:41:33Maybe something creative or like a vet because I like animals.
0:41:33 > 0:41:35Thinking about careers then,
0:41:35 > 0:41:38has anybody thought about science as a career?
0:41:38 > 0:41:42My family want me to become a doctor of some sort.
0:41:44 > 0:41:47I want to be a doctor as well but I don't really think I'd
0:41:47 > 0:41:50do any of the creative stuff because that's not really my kind of thing.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53I've wanted to be an architect for quite a while.
0:41:53 > 0:41:54- Are you good at maths?- Yeah.
0:41:54 > 0:41:58I've always liked maths and computing
0:41:58 > 0:42:00so I thought I could be like a finance director.
0:42:00 > 0:42:03- I want to be a computer scientist. - Right, OK.
0:42:03 > 0:42:06There's a definite division going on here in the group.
0:42:06 > 0:42:08Tell me what you think of,
0:42:08 > 0:42:11if somebody says the word scientist to you, what comes into your head?
0:42:11 > 0:42:12What do they look like?
0:42:12 > 0:42:15- Lab coat.- Lab coat.- They're a man.
0:42:15 > 0:42:17Yeah, I'd have that image as well of a man.
0:42:17 > 0:42:20I think it's because, like, when you're growing up you watch
0:42:20 > 0:42:23so much films and you get like a picture of every single job
0:42:23 > 0:42:26role, so you get a picture of a scientist, a musician,
0:42:26 > 0:42:29dancer, all these different job roles.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32There's loads of TV and media like tells us
0:42:32 > 0:42:36that a doctor or scientist is usually a man.
0:42:46 > 0:42:50It's perceptions like these that are a cause for concern
0:42:50 > 0:42:53for professor of cognitive neuro-imaging, Gina Rippon.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57At her lab at Aston University in Birmingham,
0:42:57 > 0:43:01she searches for links between behaviour and brain function.
0:43:01 > 0:43:04She's found that when you interrogate the differences
0:43:04 > 0:43:08between men and women, they're less striking than you might imagine.
0:43:10 > 0:43:11Thank you!
0:43:12 > 0:43:15I've noticed a claim that there are clear differences between male
0:43:15 > 0:43:19and female brains and so given that that's the kind of work I do,
0:43:19 > 0:43:22I have a look and see where these differences are
0:43:22 > 0:43:24and I actually find them very hard to find.
0:43:24 > 0:43:28You realise that actually the differences between males
0:43:28 > 0:43:30and females are smaller than the differences within
0:43:30 > 0:43:33groups of males and within groups of females,
0:43:33 > 0:43:38and so searching for something which proves this is a male brain
0:43:38 > 0:43:42or a female brain is... You're on a hiding to nothing, I think.
0:43:43 > 0:43:45Hi, if you'd like to take a seat, please.
0:43:47 > 0:43:51'Gina has set up an experiment where subjects are asked to imagine
0:43:51 > 0:43:53'the point of view of another person.'
0:43:53 > 0:43:55You will see this person sitting at various
0:43:55 > 0:43:59positions around the table and your only task is to judge
0:43:59 > 0:44:02whether the red target is on the left or on the right-hand side,
0:44:02 > 0:44:05from the person, the other person's perspective.
0:44:05 > 0:44:09'The task is made harder because the subject - in this case, me -
0:44:09 > 0:44:13'is asked to change their body position throughout the experiment.
0:44:16 > 0:44:20'It's testing similar mental rotation skills to our earlier test
0:44:20 > 0:44:24'but the different way the task is presented has a significant effect.'
0:44:26 > 0:44:30If you actually present a problem not as a mental rotation task
0:44:30 > 0:44:34but as a perspective-taking task, so you could say to somebody imagine
0:44:34 > 0:44:38you were on the other side of that object, what would it look like?
0:44:38 > 0:44:41Females who've had trouble with the mental rotation actually find
0:44:41 > 0:44:44it easier and sometimes all you need to do is say,
0:44:44 > 0:44:47"Don't think of it as this, think of it as that,"
0:44:47 > 0:44:48and there's a kind of "a-ha!" moment.
0:44:50 > 0:44:53'Tests like these have been conducted in countries around the world
0:44:53 > 0:44:56'and the results have been striking.'
0:44:56 > 0:45:00That gender difference disappears in different cultures
0:45:00 > 0:45:05so it's showing that any variances is due to different sort of factors.
0:45:05 > 0:45:06That's absolutely fascinating
0:45:06 > 0:45:09because that suggests that the differences that we see between
0:45:09 > 0:45:13men and women approaching this task, they've learned those differences.
0:45:13 > 0:45:15It depended on the way that they've been brought up
0:45:15 > 0:45:17and the roles that they've adopted in society?
0:45:17 > 0:45:21That's right, and it may be nothing to do with the task itself
0:45:21 > 0:45:25but it's, there are different ways of solving that problem.
0:45:26 > 0:45:30For Gina, the way our brain adapts to its environment is a bigger
0:45:30 > 0:45:35factor in sex differences than any kind of biological programming.
0:45:35 > 0:45:38We now know that the brain is plastic throughout life
0:45:38 > 0:45:42so as time goes on, experiences will change structures in the brain
0:45:42 > 0:45:44and what you do will change your brain
0:45:44 > 0:45:47and what other people do to you will change your brain as well,
0:45:47 > 0:45:50so I think being aware of that is key and recently they've been
0:45:50 > 0:45:54talking about differences in pathways, but pathways in the brain
0:45:54 > 0:45:57are determined by experience, by, you know,
0:45:57 > 0:45:59where you grew up, how you grew
0:45:59 > 0:46:02up, how long you were in school, what kind of occupation you've got
0:46:02 > 0:46:04now, so all of those things
0:46:04 > 0:46:07are going to change the pathways in the brain.
0:46:07 > 0:46:12And yet we do still hear that men on average are better at maths,
0:46:12 > 0:46:14and that women are better at reading.
0:46:14 > 0:46:17Does that make any sense at all?
0:46:17 > 0:46:19It doesn't, again it doesn't stack up very well
0:46:19 > 0:46:22and the idea that there's a maths brain, that your brain needs
0:46:22 > 0:46:25to be configured in a particular way to do maths
0:46:25 > 0:46:27flies in the face of all sorts of evidence
0:46:27 > 0:46:29of how plastic our brains are.
0:46:29 > 0:46:32So girls then get to believe that they're not good at maths
0:46:32 > 0:46:34which means they aren't good at maths
0:46:34 > 0:46:37and so you then get this self-fulfilling prophecy.
0:46:41 > 0:46:43It's time to compare notes.
0:46:43 > 0:46:48Now, we agree there are behavioural differences between the sexes.
0:46:48 > 0:46:51But we don't agree on what causes them.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54I still believe that some of those differences, we're born with.
0:46:54 > 0:46:58Whereas I think more than ever that it's something we learn
0:46:58 > 0:47:01and that actually the differences are tiny.
0:47:02 > 0:47:04So, Michael, would you like to tell me
0:47:04 > 0:47:07if this is a male or a female brain, just looking at it?
0:47:07 > 0:47:10Well, I'm obviously looking to see the name first of all.
0:47:11 > 0:47:12Going for male.
0:47:12 > 0:47:15You're actually right but there's no way you could tell that
0:47:15 > 0:47:18so you had a 50% chance of being right. I mean...
0:47:18 > 0:47:20It's all the stuff I've learned,
0:47:20 > 0:47:22I can tell immediately it was a male brain.
0:47:22 > 0:47:24It had all the... You're right, it was a blind guess.
0:47:24 > 0:47:27But on the other hand, I have been looking at some really
0:47:27 > 0:47:30interesting stuff and that has convinced me that there is an
0:47:30 > 0:47:34element, some exposure to hormones, that does structurally alter
0:47:34 > 0:47:37things although you probably can't see it yet.
0:47:37 > 0:47:42I accept that, but I honestly think that it's too much of a step
0:47:42 > 0:47:46to say that somebody might have a male brain or a female brain,
0:47:46 > 0:47:48that actually it's much more nuanced than that, that the
0:47:48 > 0:47:51sex differences are just a tiny bit of the differences
0:47:51 > 0:47:56between individuals, and there's a huge cultural, social influence
0:47:56 > 0:47:59on the differences that we're perceiving between us as adults,
0:47:59 > 0:48:02and I think these gender stereotypes are potentially quite destructive.
0:48:09 > 0:48:13But maybe there's something that Michael and I can agree on.
0:48:14 > 0:48:18Putting gender stereotypes and behaviour to one side,
0:48:18 > 0:48:20there's another area of neuro-science
0:48:20 > 0:48:24where sex differences could prove to be very important.
0:48:26 > 0:48:28Around the globe, some of the world's leading
0:48:28 > 0:48:32scientists are turning their attention, not to sex differences
0:48:32 > 0:48:35in the way that men and women think and behave,
0:48:35 > 0:48:39but the differences in the way they experience the world, differences
0:48:39 > 0:48:43that could in the long term lead to real improvements in people's lives.
0:48:46 > 0:48:50Throughout the world, doctors have observed a baffling phenomenon -
0:48:50 > 0:48:55on average, women tend to experience pain more intensely than men.
0:48:56 > 0:49:00Here in McGill University in Montreal, Professor Jeff Mogil
0:49:00 > 0:49:03is trying to find out why.
0:49:03 > 0:49:07As part of his research he conducts regular pain tests
0:49:07 > 0:49:10and today I'm the competition.
0:49:10 > 0:49:12Today we have a cooler of cold water.
0:49:12 > 0:49:15I'm going to ask for you to submerge your hand up to the wrist
0:49:15 > 0:49:18and so it will be painful but we're going to ask that you
0:49:18 > 0:49:21leave your hand in for as long as possible and then when you can
0:49:21 > 0:49:25no longer stand that sensation, to remove it from the water.
0:49:25 > 0:49:28Yeah, how cold is it? 4.6?
0:49:28 > 0:49:324.6 and so it is going to be cold.
0:49:32 > 0:49:36Right, so on the count of three - one, two, three, submerge please.
0:49:41 > 0:49:42Oh, that's cold.
0:49:46 > 0:49:48At the moment it is just cold.
0:49:48 > 0:49:50'There are two parts of the test.
0:49:50 > 0:49:53'First, Jeff and I must acknowledge
0:49:53 > 0:49:55'when we first start to experience pain.'
0:49:56 > 0:49:58OK, I'm in pain now, I think.
0:49:59 > 0:50:02It feels like it's freezing. I can't believe that's 4.6.
0:50:02 > 0:50:05Yeah, that's starting to hurt now, it's starting to hurt now.
0:50:07 > 0:50:09Yeah, ooh!
0:50:09 > 0:50:11It really does hurt, doesn't it?
0:50:11 > 0:50:12Oh, it really does.
0:50:12 > 0:50:16- It's surprising.- Oh, no, right OK, I really want to take my hand out now.
0:50:17 > 0:50:21'At various intervals during the test, we must also rate our pain.'
0:50:23 > 0:50:26OK, I'm going to ask that you rate now the unpleasantness
0:50:26 > 0:50:27and the intensity.
0:50:35 > 0:50:37It's pretty cold.
0:50:37 > 0:50:40It's really cold and it's an, it is an unpleasant pain, isn't it?
0:50:40 > 0:50:42It really is an unpleasant...
0:50:42 > 0:50:45Yeah, part of the problem is just the sheer coldness
0:50:45 > 0:50:48but the other part of the problem is that the cold water is
0:50:48 > 0:50:50cutting off the blood supply to your hand
0:50:50 > 0:50:54so it's actually causing ischaemia which itself is painful, right?
0:50:54 > 0:50:56Sort of a double whammy.
0:50:56 > 0:50:58An ischaemia pain is the worst pain
0:50:58 > 0:51:00that you can actually put someone in, ethically.
0:51:00 > 0:51:02Thanks, thanks!
0:51:03 > 0:51:04Now he tells us.
0:51:08 > 0:51:10Oh, no! Oh, God.
0:51:10 > 0:51:12So I'd be curious if you could actually,
0:51:12 > 0:51:16if you could make an X on the line now for a second reading?
0:51:16 > 0:51:18Let's see how your pain has changed.
0:51:22 > 0:51:23- It's not nice.- Wow!
0:51:25 > 0:51:26OK, seven minutes.
0:51:26 > 0:51:31'The test is stopped before Jeff and I can suffer any serious damage.'
0:51:31 > 0:51:34Let's compare ratings. You OK?
0:51:34 > 0:51:36Oh, it's hurting more now.
0:51:36 > 0:51:39Yeah, it's going to hurt, it's going to hurt more for a minute or two.
0:51:39 > 0:51:40- Oh, God! - But then you'll be fine.
0:51:40 > 0:51:43Well, you can see the colouration.
0:51:43 > 0:51:44'We both last the distance
0:51:44 > 0:51:48'but was there any difference in our experience of the pain?'
0:51:48 > 0:51:54So for you, your unpleasantness score was about a 7.5 on 10, so it
0:51:54 > 0:51:57was very unpleasant, very unpleasant for you whereas Jeff gave a
0:51:57 > 0:52:03rating of about, it looks about a 4, a 4 on 10 so it was less unpleasant
0:52:03 > 0:52:06for you so the psychological component for you was more intense.
0:52:06 > 0:52:08It was more unpleasant, I should say,
0:52:08 > 0:52:10so it's interesting that there's a difference there.
0:52:12 > 0:52:16In tests around the world, women report higher scores than
0:52:16 > 0:52:20men for both pain intensity and pain unpleasantness.
0:52:20 > 0:52:21Why do you think that is?
0:52:21 > 0:52:25There are a lot of people that have studied sex differences in pain
0:52:25 > 0:52:26that think it's due to the fact that it
0:52:26 > 0:52:31is important for men to be macho and to be stoic in the face of pain.
0:52:32 > 0:52:34And women, although they might want to,
0:52:34 > 0:52:38they're certainly forgiven by society for not being stoic.
0:52:38 > 0:52:41When little boys injure themselves in the playground,
0:52:41 > 0:52:43mothers and fathers tell them to suck it up
0:52:43 > 0:52:46but they don't do that to their little girls, right?
0:52:46 > 0:52:49So some people think that that's all that sex differences
0:52:49 > 0:52:51- in pain comes down to. - Do you think it's more than that?
0:52:51 > 0:52:53Yeah, we think, we think it's more than that.
0:52:53 > 0:52:56There's all kinds of reasons to believe now that there's
0:52:56 > 0:53:01different neural systems in the brain in males and females.
0:53:08 > 0:53:12Jeff has discovered that in some mice, the neural pathways
0:53:12 > 0:53:17used to process pain are different in males and females.
0:53:17 > 0:53:19He thinks the same could be true in humans.
0:53:25 > 0:53:31I actually think that the pathways are probably right in the same
0:53:31 > 0:53:36place but that the male system and the female system are different
0:53:36 > 0:53:38and they're running parallel to each other,
0:53:38 > 0:53:42and we have evidence that certain genes are involved in pain or pain
0:53:42 > 0:53:46inhibition in one sex and simply not involved in the other sex.
0:53:46 > 0:53:48- Not at all?- Not at all.
0:53:48 > 0:53:50You can take them out and nothing changes in the other sex.
0:53:50 > 0:53:55I think there's five or six or seven genes where people think
0:53:55 > 0:53:57the involvement in the one sex is different than
0:53:57 > 0:53:59the involvement in the other sex.
0:53:59 > 0:54:02So the fact that there are these real physiological differences
0:54:02 > 0:54:06in the way that men and women are experiencing pain, that
0:54:06 > 0:54:09must have quite big implications for the way that drugs are developed.
0:54:09 > 0:54:11Yeah, I think that's the key.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14There's lots of drug development going on and if any of those
0:54:14 > 0:54:19drugs ever make it to the market and get approved, my expectation
0:54:19 > 0:54:24will be that they will work in one sex and simply not work in the
0:54:24 > 0:54:27other sex, and if that ever happens that'll be a first in medicine.
0:54:27 > 0:54:29I don't think there's an example of that yet.
0:54:30 > 0:54:33I think we've only barely scratched the surface here
0:54:33 > 0:54:37and that there's a big iceberg hiding under the water that we
0:54:37 > 0:54:39and others are going to mine for some time to come.
0:54:51 > 0:54:55Back in the UK, we're already seeing the first signs of that.
0:54:55 > 0:54:59Scientists are doing research that could revolutionise medical
0:54:59 > 0:55:03treatment for Britain's third biggest killer, stroke.
0:55:03 > 0:55:05When I was a medical student,
0:55:05 > 0:55:09I worked on a ward where a lot of people had had strokes.
0:55:09 > 0:55:11Most of them were women.
0:55:11 > 0:55:15We know that particularly after the menopause women are much more
0:55:15 > 0:55:19likely to have a stroke than men and the outcomes tend to be worse.
0:55:19 > 0:55:20Why?
0:55:23 > 0:55:27Hormonal factors may play a part but Dr Claire Gibson
0:55:27 > 0:55:31of the University of Leicester thinks there may be another cause.
0:55:31 > 0:55:36She's been studying how brain cells die when strokes occur.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39We have discovered that there are differences in the mechanism
0:55:39 > 0:55:44of cell death that occur in the brains of males and females,
0:55:44 > 0:55:45in disorders such as stroke.
0:55:47 > 0:55:51Strokes happen when a clot or haemorrhage cuts off blood
0:55:51 > 0:55:52to parts of the brain.
0:55:52 > 0:55:56Cells die and some bodily functions are lost
0:55:56 > 0:56:00but Claire has discovered that the pattern in which these cells die
0:56:00 > 0:56:02is different in men and women
0:56:02 > 0:56:06and may have important implications for future treatment.
0:56:06 > 0:56:08Currently, the only treatment which is available
0:56:08 > 0:56:10is for both men and women,
0:56:10 > 0:56:13and it may be that some treatments may be more effective in men than
0:56:13 > 0:56:18women, and it may be a possibility that we will be able to identify
0:56:18 > 0:56:21treatments that only work in one gender and don't work in the other.
0:56:21 > 0:56:25This research could have wider implications.
0:56:25 > 0:56:28I think this notion that one size is going to fit all probably
0:56:28 > 0:56:31isn't true and this would be the same for a lot of complex
0:56:31 > 0:56:33brain disorders such as Huntington's disease,
0:56:33 > 0:56:35Alzheimer's disease as well.
0:56:35 > 0:56:39These diseases are very complex and therefore it's unlikely that
0:56:39 > 0:56:43we're going to find one single drug that acts to benefit all patients
0:56:43 > 0:56:47that experience that disorder so I think it's very likely that it
0:56:47 > 0:56:52could result in gender-specific treatments down the line.
0:56:52 > 0:56:56For me, this is why sex difference research really matters,
0:56:56 > 0:57:00helping us find more accurate and effective ways to tackle disease.
0:57:03 > 0:57:06Claims about the differences between male and female brains
0:57:06 > 0:57:09may always be controversial
0:57:09 > 0:57:14but at the end of our investigation, are our views any closer?
0:57:14 > 0:57:15So what do you think then?
0:57:15 > 0:57:18Well, I must admit I thought it really, really interesting.
0:57:18 > 0:57:21I think probably the biggest surprise for me
0:57:21 > 0:57:23was the stuff around pain and around stroke,
0:57:23 > 0:57:26and certainly the most sort of fertile area going forward.
0:57:26 > 0:57:29I thought that was really fantastic and really quite extraordinary.
0:57:29 > 0:57:31I think the really important thing that's come out of this
0:57:31 > 0:57:34though is the malleability, the plasticity of the brain.
0:57:34 > 0:57:37The brain is responding to the environment it's in
0:57:37 > 0:57:40so we're getting gender differences appearing
0:57:40 > 0:57:44because of gender stereotypes which will affect our children's brains.
0:57:44 > 0:57:48I still think there is some influence of hormones
0:57:48 > 0:57:50on behaviour and I find that quite compelling.
0:57:50 > 0:57:53I'm not saying there aren't any innate differences
0:57:53 > 0:57:55but they are small
0:57:55 > 0:57:58and they only explain a tiny bit of the variation between individuals.
0:57:58 > 0:58:01Yeah, absolutely, I must admit I agree
0:58:01 > 0:58:02so I have a confession to make.
0:58:02 > 0:58:04I am really not from Mars!
0:58:04 > 0:58:05I'm definitely not from Venus!