0:00:02 > 0:00:03In 2013,
0:00:03 > 0:00:07a Russian internet millionaire funded a conference in New York
0:00:07 > 0:00:10with an extraordinary aim -
0:00:10 > 0:00:12to see if a system could be created
0:00:12 > 0:00:15that would allow him to live for ever.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18If there is no immortality technology,
0:00:18 > 0:00:21I'll be dead in the next 35 years.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25Top neuroscientists,
0:00:25 > 0:00:29robot builders and researchers were invited.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31How long you live really does matter.
0:00:32 > 0:00:36How could you increase what we're able to do?
0:00:39 > 0:00:41- Konichiwa.- Konichiwa.
0:00:41 > 0:00:46The ambition was to unlock the human brain,
0:00:46 > 0:00:48extract the mind
0:00:48 > 0:00:50and upload it to a computer.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53The ultimate goal of my plan
0:00:53 > 0:00:56is to transfer someone's personality
0:00:56 > 0:00:59into a completely new body.
0:00:59 > 0:01:03It is possible to preserve memory and personality,
0:01:03 > 0:01:06for thousands of years, in storage.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09Look at that cerebellum right there. Isn't that neat?
0:01:09 > 0:01:10Frozen in time.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12Meet the immortalist.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15My name is Dmitry Itskov.
0:01:15 > 0:01:17Within the next 30 years,
0:01:17 > 0:01:19I am going to make sure that we can all live for ever.
0:01:20 > 0:01:22It's too stupid.
0:01:22 > 0:01:23It simply cannot be done.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25A waste of time,
0:01:25 > 0:01:27a waste of money,
0:01:27 > 0:01:29and it's a waste of our humanity.
0:01:29 > 0:01:33As our ability to connect brains to technology grows,
0:01:33 > 0:01:37is it so crazy to think we could live for ever in machines?
0:01:39 > 0:01:42I am 100% confident it will happen...
0:01:44 > 0:01:46..otherwise I wouldn't have started it.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03Trying to make the impossible possible starts in the imagination.
0:02:06 > 0:02:11My biggest dream when I grew up was to be a cosmonaut -
0:02:11 > 0:02:14to fly into outer space
0:02:14 > 0:02:16and to explore new planets.
0:02:16 > 0:02:19That sort of dream has always been with me.
0:02:19 > 0:02:20There was an interesting book
0:02:20 > 0:02:23and the main hero took some immortality pill,
0:02:23 > 0:02:26and he ended up flying on the orbit of Earth.
0:02:26 > 0:02:31I remember myself questioning what I was going to do if I'm immortal.
0:02:31 > 0:02:35When he grew up, Dmitry Itskov became an internet mogul.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37He says he now spends part of his fortune
0:02:37 > 0:02:40trying to bring about immortality.
0:02:40 > 0:02:44Not everything can be disclosed at the moment but, yes,
0:02:44 > 0:02:47I have been funding this science with my own money.
0:02:47 > 0:02:49We are talking about millions of dollars.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52Dmitry is one of a growing number of the mega-rich
0:02:52 > 0:02:55who are funding their own scientific projects.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05He is fascinated by signs of a coming world.
0:03:09 > 0:03:11Osaka, Japan -
0:03:11 > 0:03:16where technology is changing what it is to be alive...
0:03:16 > 0:03:18and what it is to die.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24Where science fiction is being made real.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32The descending scientist
0:03:32 > 0:03:35is a builder of robots that look like us...
0:03:37 > 0:03:41..and a thinker of seemingly impossible thoughts.
0:04:10 > 0:04:15Prof Hiroshi Ishiguro went to Dmitry's conference in 2013.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21His ambition is to make his machines
0:04:21 > 0:04:23as human-like as possible.
0:04:56 > 0:05:00Hiroshi's latest creation eclipses all his others.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03This is Erica.
0:05:06 > 0:05:08Konichiwa!
0:05:08 > 0:05:09Konichiwa!
0:05:09 > 0:05:11TRANSLATION:
0:05:15 > 0:05:17Ishiguro.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20Erica is powered by artificial intelligence -
0:05:20 > 0:05:22a database of conversations,
0:05:22 > 0:05:24behaviours,
0:05:24 > 0:05:25even emotions.
0:06:09 > 0:06:13As Hiroshi improves Erica's autonomy,
0:06:13 > 0:06:17telling the machine and the human apart
0:06:17 > 0:06:20could become increasingly difficult.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40Hiroshi's newest machine
0:06:40 > 0:06:42is inspiring a dream
0:06:42 > 0:06:44of endless life of a kind.
0:06:57 > 0:07:03Death is to disappear from this world, right?
0:07:05 > 0:07:10Androids like Erica are changing what it might be to die.
0:07:31 > 0:07:35Erica is not based on any actual person
0:07:35 > 0:07:37but, in the future,
0:07:37 > 0:07:40Hiroshi could build android replicas of real people,
0:07:40 > 0:07:44powered by databases of real memories and behaviours.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15It's a vision of the future some may find unsettling,
0:08:15 > 0:08:20to see dead loved ones living on as robot replicas.
0:08:38 > 0:08:41Imagine a world where there are no graves to dig...
0:08:45 > 0:08:48..a world of mind-spinning possibility...
0:08:52 > 0:08:54..home to Dmitry Itskov.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59His ambition soars beyond
0:08:59 > 0:09:02leaving behind a robot copy of himself when he dies.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08The immortality of memories is useless for the individual.
0:09:08 > 0:09:14Real immortality is the extension of your journey in this life.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16All the rest is just useless
0:09:16 > 0:09:20for someone whose world is dying with him,
0:09:20 > 0:09:22and real immortality technology should create
0:09:22 > 0:09:24something to avoid this death.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28Is this just a fantasy of the super-rich?
0:09:28 > 0:09:33Because to try to defeat death is to challenge time itself.
0:09:33 > 0:09:36Our DNA goes through millions of damaging events per day.
0:09:36 > 0:09:41Our cells have the machinery to repair that damage
0:09:41 > 0:09:44and we have that machinery throughout life
0:09:44 > 0:09:48but unfortunately it gets a little less efficient as we age.
0:09:50 > 0:09:52Cardiovascular disease
0:09:52 > 0:09:54and other age-related conditions
0:09:54 > 0:09:56kill around two-thirds of us.
0:09:57 > 0:10:01Unfortunately, you know, ageing is an inevitable process.
0:10:01 > 0:10:03We would love to find some elixir,
0:10:03 > 0:10:07fountain of youth, that can prolong life for ever
0:10:07 > 0:10:12but that's just not how it works.
0:10:12 > 0:10:14You know, we're going to die at some point.
0:10:14 > 0:10:20The oldest person ever recorded died after 122 years.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23But Dmitry has a plan to bypass ageing.
0:10:28 > 0:10:34The problem now is that our biological body ages.
0:10:34 > 0:10:38That's why I decided to develop a completely new body,
0:10:38 > 0:10:42and that would extend the life almost endlessly.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48We have long been fascinated
0:10:48 > 0:10:51by building mechanical copies of ourselves.
0:10:54 > 0:10:56Half a century ago,
0:10:56 > 0:10:58it was even predicted we would one day merge
0:10:58 > 0:11:00with the machines we make.
0:11:03 > 0:11:09We may have a society in which robots will drift away
0:11:09 > 0:11:13from total metal toward the organic,
0:11:13 > 0:11:16and human beings will drift away from the total organic
0:11:16 > 0:11:19toward the metal and plastic,
0:11:19 > 0:11:23and that somewhere in the middle they may eventually meet.
0:11:23 > 0:11:27The first stage of Dmitry's grand plan
0:11:27 > 0:11:29echoes Asimov's prophecy.
0:11:31 > 0:11:35He wants to control a new robot body using just the power of his mind.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40How do we control our physical, biological body?
0:11:40 > 0:11:42We just think of doing an action.
0:11:42 > 0:11:44We just think of, let's say, moving an arm
0:11:44 > 0:11:46and it moves.
0:11:46 > 0:11:50So what is important is to create that sort of experience
0:11:50 > 0:11:52with the artificial body -
0:11:52 > 0:11:55that you just start perceiving that body as a natural one,
0:11:55 > 0:12:00in a way that the new body becomes a part of your personality.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11The power of our thoughts is already being harnessed
0:12:11 > 0:12:14using knowledge gleaned more than a century ago.
0:12:16 > 0:12:18Prof Rafael Yuste is one of the scientists
0:12:18 > 0:12:21behind a 6 billion project
0:12:21 > 0:12:24to try to map the entire activity of the human brain.
0:12:31 > 0:12:33My own personal dream
0:12:33 > 0:12:37is to understand how one thought is generated.
0:12:37 > 0:12:42Rafael is inspired by the Spanish pathologist Santiago Ramon Cajal,
0:12:42 > 0:12:45who discovered the basic building blocks of the brain
0:12:45 > 0:12:47in the late 1880s.
0:12:51 > 0:12:54Cajal in a way was a cartographer.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56He's the cartographer of the mind.
0:12:59 > 0:13:04By studying brain tissue, Cajal found that individual cells,
0:13:04 > 0:13:07neurons, were connected in circuits.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13So these are original drawings from Cajal.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18Neurons look like little trees, maybe,
0:13:18 > 0:13:20that have branches,
0:13:20 > 0:13:22which are the part of the brain
0:13:22 > 0:13:25that receives the input from other neurons.
0:13:25 > 0:13:30And then they have roots that send information to other neurons.
0:13:30 > 0:13:35The human brain is made up of around 86 billion neurons.
0:13:39 > 0:13:41These cells communicate information
0:13:41 > 0:13:45by sending electrical charges to each other.
0:13:50 > 0:13:52So just like little computers
0:13:52 > 0:13:54that use zeros and ones to transmit information,
0:13:54 > 0:13:57neurons fire these little sparks.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00So it's a system of interconnected cells,
0:14:00 > 0:14:03and you have to imagine them as flashes of light,
0:14:03 > 0:14:05which are actually voltages,
0:14:05 > 0:14:08that are propagating like waves through the brain.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12The way neurons fire is a complex interaction
0:14:12 > 0:14:16of biochemistry, anatomy and physiology.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21But scientists can now tap into these electrical signals
0:14:21 > 0:14:25and use the power of our thoughts in life-changing ways.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40At Rancho Los Amigos Hospital in Los Angeles,
0:14:40 > 0:14:44researchers are merging the human and the robot more than ever before.
0:14:46 > 0:14:48Meet Erik Sorto.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52Deep inside his brain are two arrays of electrodes.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59In the beginning, I was very conscious of them.
0:14:59 > 0:15:01Now I completely forget they're there
0:15:01 > 0:15:04until somebody reminds me, like, "What's that on your head?"
0:15:04 > 0:15:05I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that's right.
0:15:05 > 0:15:08"I have two pedestals sticking out of my head."
0:15:10 > 0:15:14Erik's life changed when he was 21 and a member of a gang.
0:15:18 > 0:15:21I was lost.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25I was lost, confused, young and wild.
0:15:26 > 0:15:30On January 2nd 2002, I suffered a gunshot
0:15:30 > 0:15:35which left me paralysed from the shoulders down.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39Erik's spinal cord was severed,
0:15:39 > 0:15:43stopping the signals from his brain that control movement
0:15:43 > 0:15:45reaching his limbs.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50I'm a C3-C4 complete quadriplegic complete.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55To try to restore movement he has lost,
0:15:55 > 0:15:59Erik is part of a trial to merge his brain with a robot arm.
0:16:20 > 0:16:22- Hi, Spencer!- Hey!
0:16:24 > 0:16:27A typical working day for Erik starts like this.
0:16:32 > 0:16:33Scientists from Caltech
0:16:33 > 0:16:36are connecting Erik's brain to computers
0:16:36 > 0:16:38which will decode what he is thinking.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42I think this is all good.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44Can you move your head?
0:16:44 > 0:16:46- Everything good?- Yeah.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48Right, I think you are ready to go.
0:16:48 > 0:16:50All right.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53The team check they are recording the activity
0:16:53 > 0:16:56of a tiny number of individual neurons
0:16:56 > 0:16:59out of the 86 billion that make up his brain.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03Erik, I'll show you a couple of your units.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05So this is channel 64.
0:17:05 > 0:17:0664 is looking nice, huh?
0:17:06 > 0:17:11Looking very nice, actually. Has a nice high firing rate.
0:17:11 > 0:17:12What are you thinking about?
0:17:15 > 0:17:19Recording the firing of individual neurons is only possible
0:17:19 > 0:17:22because Erik agreed to take a risk others might not.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27The most challenging part was the brain surgery.
0:17:29 > 0:17:31You ask all the questions
0:17:31 > 0:17:35but you never know what can happen during surgery.
0:17:37 > 0:17:42We create a window in the skull by cutting out a window of bone.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49Surgeons implanted two arrays of 96 electrodes,
0:17:49 > 0:17:52about four millimetres long, into Erik's brain.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03The ability to record at the single cell level
0:18:03 > 0:18:07requires that we do these types of invasive procedures.
0:18:07 > 0:18:13The bone filters out quite a lot of the information.
0:18:21 > 0:18:25On a given day, the electrodes might pick up around 60 neurons.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28They are not always the same ones,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31probably because the arrays move slightly.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34So Erik has had to train hard
0:18:34 > 0:18:37to activate neurons to calibrate the computers.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41I have a neuron that, to make it fire,
0:18:41 > 0:18:44I have to envision my arm doing a windmill.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47I have a neuron that likes to punch
0:18:47 > 0:18:50so to get it firing, I pretend I'm jabbing.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53- All right, let's get to work. - So, let's do some training.
0:18:55 > 0:18:57To control the robot arm,
0:18:57 > 0:18:59Erik must complete two mental tasks
0:18:59 > 0:19:02in response to colours appearing on the screen in front of him.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07Green is going to be, "Bring your hand to your mouth."
0:19:07 > 0:19:09And red will be subtracting,
0:19:09 > 0:19:12you're going to start at 100 and count down by six.
0:19:14 > 0:19:16As he thinks each thought,
0:19:16 > 0:19:20the computers record which neurons fire in his brain.
0:19:21 > 0:19:25The green thought will be used to start the robot,
0:19:25 > 0:19:26the red to stop it.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34This attempt to merge the human and machine
0:19:34 > 0:19:37relies on understanding how the brain controls movement.
0:19:42 > 0:19:44For three decades,
0:19:44 > 0:19:46Prof Richard Andersen has been investigating the workings
0:19:46 > 0:19:49of one particular region of the brain.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55So we're interested in the posterior parietal cortex.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57It's located about here,
0:19:57 > 0:20:00this is the back of Erik's head.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02We implanted an area around here.
0:20:06 > 0:20:12This area forms the intent or early plans to make movement.
0:20:13 > 0:20:17Say I want to punch a key on the computer,
0:20:17 > 0:20:21it codes that goal rather than the exact way to get there.
0:20:23 > 0:20:25The robotic system is crucial
0:20:25 > 0:20:28to the way this brain machine interface works.
0:20:30 > 0:20:34The idea is, if we can interpret the intent of the subject,
0:20:34 > 0:20:36that many of the fine details of the movement
0:20:36 > 0:20:39can then be done with a smart robot.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45Now Erik is ready to try to pick up a bottle of beer,
0:20:45 > 0:20:48using just his thoughts.
0:20:48 > 0:20:49- It's the big moment.- Let's do it.
0:20:49 > 0:20:51- You ready?- All right.
0:20:51 > 0:20:52OK, here we go.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57He thinks only of the goal of the movement -
0:20:57 > 0:20:59bring hand to mouth -
0:20:59 > 0:21:02and the robot arm works out the rest.
0:21:07 > 0:21:09There you go.
0:21:09 > 0:21:11First step done.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13When you go to reach for something,
0:21:13 > 0:21:15you don't walk it step by step.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17You just do it.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19Once the arm has grasped the bottle,
0:21:19 > 0:21:22Erik thinks, "Bring hand to mouth," again.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28But just as Erik is supposed to think his stop thought...
0:21:28 > 0:21:33And then can you switch over to the arithmetic, do the subtraction?
0:21:33 > 0:21:35..there's a problem,
0:21:35 > 0:21:38and the arm is stopped automatically.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41I think what's happened is that the neural activity has changed
0:21:41 > 0:21:44a little bit since we waited a few minutes to do the testing.
0:21:44 > 0:21:46The arithmetic changed a little bit.
0:21:49 > 0:21:51On other occasions,
0:21:51 > 0:21:55Erik has succeeded in drinking a bottle of beer using just his mind.
0:21:57 > 0:21:59All right!
0:22:01 > 0:22:04Have you finished that thing off? That's good.
0:22:04 > 0:22:07His progress in this extraordinary trial
0:22:07 > 0:22:09has extended what it is to be human.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13- Yeah!- There you go.
0:22:16 > 0:22:21In the beginning it was my brain, my arm and the robotic arm.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24Now when I go in there, it's my brain and the arm.
0:22:24 > 0:22:28We are one, and it feels like my arm.
0:22:29 > 0:22:30I think the brain is...
0:22:30 > 0:22:35It's a part of us that is ready to use any tool available
0:22:35 > 0:22:40to keep on... to keep us moving forward
0:22:40 > 0:22:43and helping us live a better life.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56In Dmitry Itskov's imagination,
0:22:56 > 0:23:01the day will come when we all use our minds to control robots.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08It won't just be arms but entire bodies,
0:23:08 > 0:23:14the first step in his grand plan to achieve immortality.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17It now exists in this medical sphere
0:23:17 > 0:23:20but organically, naturally,
0:23:20 > 0:23:24the transition towards healthy people will be made...
0:23:24 > 0:23:25will be made soon.
0:23:27 > 0:23:30A healthy person could get an implant like this
0:23:30 > 0:23:32but then they'd be up against
0:23:32 > 0:23:34having to have a surgical procedure.
0:23:34 > 0:23:39So I think that seems to be much too high a hurdle.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42In the future, you can imagine, you know,
0:23:42 > 0:23:45many scenarios and interesting things
0:23:45 > 0:23:48but I think what we're doing now,
0:23:48 > 0:23:51it's purely a medical application.
0:23:51 > 0:23:55These scientific advances are fuelling grand dreams
0:23:55 > 0:23:58of changing humanity's destiny.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16But is it ever really going to be possible
0:24:16 > 0:24:20to replace our biological bodies with machines?
0:24:20 > 0:24:22If there is a way,
0:24:22 > 0:24:24the answer lies in understanding far more
0:24:24 > 0:24:27about how the human brain generates thoughts,
0:24:27 > 0:24:33because Dmitry's plan isn't just to connect a brain with a robot
0:24:33 > 0:24:35but to extract thoughts
0:24:35 > 0:24:38and implant them into a computer.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42The ultimate goal of my plan
0:24:42 > 0:24:48is to transfer someone's personality into the new artificial carrier.
0:24:49 > 0:24:52Different scientists call it uploading
0:24:52 > 0:24:54or they call it mind transfer.
0:24:54 > 0:24:58I prefer to call it the personality transfer.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04It's an ambition so audacious
0:25:04 > 0:25:08Dmitry Itskov has a team to advise him.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14His scientific director manages the details of this plan
0:25:14 > 0:25:16to escape the ravages of time.
0:25:18 > 0:25:21Dr Randal Koene makes it his business
0:25:21 > 0:25:24to stay across the work of key neuroscientists.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29I travel to their labs all the time.
0:25:29 > 0:25:31I keep up with the latest work,
0:25:31 > 0:25:33make sure that I know what's cutting edge,
0:25:33 > 0:25:36and try to figure out how things fit together well.
0:25:43 > 0:25:46He won't reveal which work they are funding
0:25:46 > 0:25:47or for how much.
0:25:50 > 0:25:55Like Dmitry, Randal's passion to free himself from time
0:25:55 > 0:25:56is a lifelong dream.
0:26:02 > 0:26:04As a teenager, you want to be many things.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07You want to be an astronaut but you want to be a mountain climber.
0:26:07 > 0:26:10You want to be a writer and you want to be a scientist and an engineer.
0:26:10 > 0:26:12There's too little time to do that
0:26:12 > 0:26:15so how long you live, that really does matter.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19Randal was formerly a research professor
0:26:19 > 0:26:23at Boston University's Center for Memory and Brain
0:26:23 > 0:26:26before leaving to pursue his fantastical vision
0:26:26 > 0:26:28of humanity's future.
0:26:28 > 0:26:31How could you increase what we're able to do?
0:26:31 > 0:26:32How could you experience things
0:26:32 > 0:26:35that right now only our machines can experience?
0:26:37 > 0:26:39We send robots to the planets
0:26:39 > 0:26:43because we can't really live in space.
0:26:43 > 0:26:44But imagine if we could!
0:26:46 > 0:26:48Randal draws on neuroscience
0:26:48 > 0:26:50which has predominantly approached the brain
0:26:50 > 0:26:52as if it worked like a computer.
0:26:55 > 0:26:57In this analogy,
0:26:57 > 0:27:00the brain turns inputs - sensory information -
0:27:00 > 0:27:03into outputs - our behaviour -
0:27:03 > 0:27:05through computations.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09That which is us - yourself, your awareness, your memories -
0:27:09 > 0:27:13all of that is expressed in terms of information.
0:27:13 > 0:27:16Now Randal makes a leap in the dark.
0:27:16 > 0:27:19Information can be copied, information can be archived.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21It can be extended.
0:27:21 > 0:27:24So if you can deal with it as information,
0:27:24 > 0:27:25then the sky's the limit.
0:27:29 > 0:27:31Randal has devised a road map
0:27:31 > 0:27:34for how to go about actually transferring a person's mind
0:27:34 > 0:27:36to a machine.
0:27:38 > 0:27:40I like to think of it as an area
0:27:40 > 0:27:44that has four main types of problems.
0:27:44 > 0:27:48What we need to understand is the structure of the brain.
0:27:48 > 0:27:50But that's not enough.
0:27:50 > 0:27:55So the other part of the problem is what we call function.
0:27:55 > 0:27:58Something goes in and something comes out.
0:27:58 > 0:27:59Then there's the question,
0:27:59 > 0:28:01what do you do with all that structure and function data?
0:28:01 > 0:28:04How do you express this as math, as models?
0:28:04 > 0:28:06And finally,
0:28:06 > 0:28:10you need something like a bunch of chips
0:28:10 > 0:28:13or something else that is your implementation.
0:28:13 > 0:28:15Those are the four parts of the road map.
0:28:17 > 0:28:21The road map seems clear
0:28:21 > 0:28:24but could we ever reach its destination?
0:28:30 > 0:28:32Any plan to upload the mind
0:28:32 > 0:28:37relies on understanding the deepest workings of the brain.
0:28:37 > 0:28:40But cracking this extraordinary organ
0:28:40 > 0:28:45is proving to be a challenge like no other in science.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51The brain generates all of our behaviour
0:28:51 > 0:28:54but also, it generates all of our mental world.
0:28:54 > 0:28:57It generates our mind and now the challenge is precisely to...
0:28:57 > 0:29:01how to go from a physical substrate of cells
0:29:01 > 0:29:05that are connected and all together inside this organ,
0:29:05 > 0:29:08to our mental world -
0:29:08 > 0:29:12to our thoughts, to our memories, to our feelings.
0:29:13 > 0:29:16How the neurons that make up the brain
0:29:16 > 0:29:18give rise to every aspect of us
0:29:18 > 0:29:22is a mystery that has endured since the days
0:29:22 > 0:29:24of Santiago Ramon Cajal,
0:29:24 > 0:29:27the founding father of neuroscience.
0:29:28 > 0:29:30Actually, he has a beautiful quote here in Spanish
0:29:30 > 0:29:32precisely about this topic.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36TRANSLATION:
0:30:01 > 0:30:02For all that has been learned
0:30:02 > 0:30:05in the decades since those lines were written
0:30:05 > 0:30:09about the complex anatomy and physiology of neural firing,
0:30:09 > 0:30:14how our brains give rise to our consciousness remains opaque.
0:30:14 > 0:30:17Right now, it's still mostly mysterious.
0:30:17 > 0:30:20It's still... We are still in the times of Cajal, of talking,
0:30:20 > 0:30:24thinking about these mysterious butterflies of the soul, no?
0:30:25 > 0:30:29Given the mystery that shrouds the workings of the brain,
0:30:29 > 0:30:34is Dmitry Itskov right to even dream of uploading his mind to a machine?
0:30:37 > 0:30:40In all politeness, I mean, other people might say he's mad.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45Yeah, I guess all of the evidence seems to say, well,
0:30:45 > 0:30:47in theory, it's possible.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49It's extremely difficult but it's possible.
0:30:49 > 0:30:53So then you could say someone like that is ambitious, is visionary,
0:30:53 > 0:30:56forward-thinking, maybe a little ahead of their time.
0:30:56 > 0:30:58But not mad,
0:30:58 > 0:31:02because being mad sort of implies that you're crazy,
0:31:02 > 0:31:05that you're thinking of something that's just impossible,
0:31:05 > 0:31:06and that's not the case.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18So how far have the immortalists got?
0:31:21 > 0:31:24One answer lies in the edge lands of Los Angeles.
0:31:30 > 0:31:34On the border between the known and the unknown,
0:31:34 > 0:31:37a neuroscientist who by day maps the structure of the brain
0:31:37 > 0:31:41at a respected research institute
0:31:41 > 0:31:45and by night works on uploading his mind to a computer.
0:31:47 > 0:31:51I wouldn't have known how to play it safe even if I tried.
0:31:59 > 0:32:03Dr Ken Hayworth has been fascinated by the potential of the brain
0:32:03 > 0:32:05since childhood.
0:32:08 > 0:32:12When I was a kid, I very much wanted to go into space.
0:32:19 > 0:32:24How can I, myself, get to another star?
0:32:24 > 0:32:25Is that possible?
0:32:25 > 0:32:27This was in high school,
0:32:27 > 0:32:29I was reading neural network books at the time.
0:32:29 > 0:32:34And at some point, it dawned on me - we are just information.
0:32:34 > 0:32:37We could be encoded as ones and zeros,
0:32:37 > 0:32:41and we could transmit ourselves at the speed of light
0:32:41 > 0:32:42to the nearest star.
0:32:48 > 0:32:51Ken approaches the brain as if it were a computer,
0:32:51 > 0:32:55the analogy used by many mainstream neuroscientists.
0:32:57 > 0:33:01The brain is a beautifully put-together, complex
0:33:01 > 0:33:06computational device that gives rise to not only intelligence
0:33:06 > 0:33:08but consciousness and emotions,
0:33:08 > 0:33:11and it is scrutable.
0:33:11 > 0:33:13It is understandable.
0:33:15 > 0:33:20Ken uses an electron microscope to image tiny pieces of mouse brain.
0:33:23 > 0:33:26He is trying to map the connectome,
0:33:26 > 0:33:29the complex connections of all the neurons.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34He's convinced this wiring diagram,
0:33:34 > 0:33:36if it could be made for our brains,
0:33:36 > 0:33:39holds the key to uploading the mind.
0:33:40 > 0:33:43The connectome in our brain
0:33:43 > 0:33:48is encoding all of our memories that make us "us"
0:33:48 > 0:33:52and so, in the same sense that my computer
0:33:52 > 0:33:55is really just the ones and zeros on my hard drive,
0:33:55 > 0:33:57and I don't care what happens
0:33:57 > 0:34:01as long as those ones and zeros make it to the next computer,
0:34:01 > 0:34:04it should be the same thing with me.
0:34:04 > 0:34:10I don't care if my connectome is implemented in this physical body.
0:34:10 > 0:34:16What I care is if that connectome is implemented in any physical body,
0:34:16 > 0:34:18whether it be a human body
0:34:18 > 0:34:21or a computer simulation controlling a robotic body.
0:34:22 > 0:34:26Plotting out the connectome would be the first step in Randal's road map.
0:34:28 > 0:34:33But it is a vast, perhaps even impossible, undertaking.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37We are pitifully far away from mapping a human connectome.
0:34:42 > 0:34:44Every single synapse in the brain,
0:34:44 > 0:34:47all trillions and trillions of them...
0:34:47 > 0:34:53To put it in perspective, in order to image a whole fly brain,
0:34:53 > 0:34:58it is going to take us approximately one to two years.
0:34:59 > 0:35:03The idea of mapping a whole human brain
0:35:03 > 0:35:06with the existing technology that we have today
0:35:06 > 0:35:10is simply impossible.
0:35:11 > 0:35:13Even if the connectome could be traced,
0:35:13 > 0:35:16Ken believes the second stage of the road map -
0:35:16 > 0:35:20understanding what the brain does, its physiology -
0:35:20 > 0:35:22would also be needed.
0:35:23 > 0:35:28If we were somehow given a structural synaptic diagram today
0:35:28 > 0:35:30of a whole human brain,
0:35:30 > 0:35:32we wouldn't be able to do much with it
0:35:32 > 0:35:37because we still have all of that additional electrophysiology data
0:35:37 > 0:35:39that has to be gathered as well.
0:35:39 > 0:35:41These have to come together
0:35:41 > 0:35:44to actually add up to a complete simulation of the brain.
0:35:48 > 0:35:51Progress on the second stage of the road map -
0:35:51 > 0:35:53what the brain does -
0:35:53 > 0:35:54is being made.
0:36:00 > 0:36:02In the centre of New York,
0:36:02 > 0:36:04at Columbia University,
0:36:04 > 0:36:08Prof Rafael Yuste is leading a bold effort
0:36:08 > 0:36:11to map the constant activity of the brain.
0:36:13 > 0:36:17It is a critical part of what is known as the Obama Brain Initiative.
0:36:17 > 0:36:21The ambition of the world's biggest neuroscience project
0:36:21 > 0:36:23was made clear to Rafael
0:36:23 > 0:36:26at a crucial meeting at the White House.
0:36:26 > 0:36:30It was the week after they landed the Rover in Mars.
0:36:37 > 0:36:38And so the meeting started
0:36:38 > 0:36:41with Tom Kalil from the White House opening the meeting
0:36:41 > 0:36:43and saying, "This has been a good week for us.
0:36:43 > 0:36:44"Now let's talk about the brain.
0:36:44 > 0:36:47"If we can put this thing in Mars,
0:36:47 > 0:36:49"how come we cannot solve schizophrenia?"
0:36:51 > 0:36:54- OBAMA:- The next great American project,
0:36:54 > 0:36:56that's what we're calling The Brain Initiative.
0:36:58 > 0:37:006 billion has been pledged
0:37:00 > 0:37:03to try to solve the mysteries of brain disorders
0:37:03 > 0:37:05that affect millions of people.
0:37:07 > 0:37:09One major strand of the initiative
0:37:09 > 0:37:12is Rafael's ambitious plan
0:37:12 > 0:37:16to map the constant interaction of neurons in the brain,
0:37:16 > 0:37:17its physiology.
0:37:19 > 0:37:22We want to measure every spark from all the neurons
0:37:22 > 0:37:24at once, simultaneously.
0:37:26 > 0:37:29Many people said it's just impossible.
0:37:33 > 0:37:37As a start, Rafael is focusing on mapping the neural activity
0:37:37 > 0:37:39of a tiny freshwater invertebrate.
0:37:43 > 0:37:45Hydra is an example of an cnidarian
0:37:45 > 0:37:50that has one of the simplest nervous systems in evolution.
0:37:50 > 0:37:52So, in the tree of life,
0:37:52 > 0:37:56cnidarians is the first time that animals have neurons.
0:37:56 > 0:37:58The hydra has between 300
0:37:58 > 0:38:00and a few thousand neurons
0:38:00 > 0:38:02distributed in a network,
0:38:02 > 0:38:07a tiny fraction of the 86 billion in the human brain.
0:38:07 > 0:38:11Somehow this structure of neurons across the body of the animal
0:38:11 > 0:38:13controls behaviour.
0:38:13 > 0:38:15So it offers a golden opportunity
0:38:15 > 0:38:19to understand how the activity of the entire nervous system
0:38:19 > 0:38:22can generate behaviour.
0:38:22 > 0:38:24One of the great challenges of neuroscience
0:38:24 > 0:38:29is how to see the activity inside a brain as it happens.
0:38:30 > 0:38:35In this case, Rafael solved it by genetically modifying the hydra.
0:38:35 > 0:38:37We've made a transgenic animal
0:38:37 > 0:38:41expressing a calcium indicator in every single neuron.
0:38:41 > 0:38:43As a neuron fires,
0:38:43 > 0:38:45calcium comes into the cell
0:38:45 > 0:38:48and binds to a dye that can be tracked.
0:38:53 > 0:38:56The little dots of light that you see in the screen
0:38:56 > 0:38:58are the neurons of the animal.
0:38:58 > 0:39:02And when the neurons are activated, they're flashing.
0:39:02 > 0:39:05When it contracts, you can see how the neurons are flashing,
0:39:05 > 0:39:07very likely because its neurons
0:39:07 > 0:39:09are sort of controlling the muscle of the animal
0:39:09 > 0:39:11and making it contract.
0:39:11 > 0:39:14In this research, yet to be published,
0:39:14 > 0:39:16Rafael and his team have imaged the activity
0:39:16 > 0:39:20of close to every neuron in a brain for the first time.
0:39:25 > 0:39:28It was very exciting. It's thrilling.
0:39:28 > 0:39:29I'm still thrilled when I look at it.
0:39:29 > 0:39:32On the other hand, at this point, today,
0:39:32 > 0:39:35we just cannot tell you what these patterns mean.
0:39:35 > 0:39:39So it's a little bit like listening in on a conversation
0:39:39 > 0:39:42in a foreign language that you don't understand.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45Decoding the complete patterns of neural activity of a brain
0:39:45 > 0:39:47has never been done.
0:39:47 > 0:39:48We should be able to do it.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50I mean, after all, there is no magic here.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53This is just a bunch of neurons firing together.
0:40:00 > 0:40:05Rafael and his team have catalogued around 30 hydra behaviours.
0:40:07 > 0:40:09The next task is to match these up
0:40:09 > 0:40:12with the pattern of neuronal activity
0:40:12 > 0:40:15to understand how the brain controls the organism's behaviour.
0:40:18 > 0:40:19If we're successful,
0:40:19 > 0:40:22we'll be reading the mind of this little cnidarian,
0:40:22 > 0:40:24the little hydra.
0:40:24 > 0:40:26We will be able to look at the activity
0:40:26 > 0:40:29and know what it's thinking, so to speak.
0:40:29 > 0:40:32The plan is to scale the research up.
0:40:32 > 0:40:34Within 15 years,
0:40:34 > 0:40:38new tools should allow every neuron in the mouse cortex to be imaged.
0:40:39 > 0:40:45But the ultimate aim is to unlock the biggest brain of all - our own.
0:40:45 > 0:40:47We should be able,
0:40:47 > 0:40:49if science progresses correctly,
0:40:49 > 0:40:51to decode that activity
0:40:51 > 0:40:54and re-interpret that activity
0:40:54 > 0:40:57in the same way that the brain itself interprets it.
0:41:01 > 0:41:04So we will be able to essentially access the thought,
0:41:04 > 0:41:08the mental processes that go on in animals or in a human.
0:41:08 > 0:41:12If you call this downloading, or deciphering...
0:41:12 > 0:41:15So that part, I think it's in our future.
0:41:17 > 0:41:20If we could interpret the activity of the brain,
0:41:20 > 0:41:24it could help solve diseases like Alzheimer's.
0:41:24 > 0:41:29But it might also have an unintended consequence.
0:41:29 > 0:41:32If the brain were a digital computer,
0:41:32 > 0:41:36if you wanted to upload the mind,
0:41:36 > 0:41:40you need to be able to decipher it or download it first,
0:41:40 > 0:41:42so I think it's a necessary step.
0:41:42 > 0:41:46The Brain Initiative, or the brain activity map,
0:41:46 > 0:41:52is a step that is necessary for this uploading to happen.
0:41:59 > 0:42:04The results of this research can't come soon enough for Dmitry Itskov.
0:42:07 > 0:42:11He believes we are living in dangerous times...
0:42:13 > 0:42:17..and immortality may be humanity's salvation.
0:42:18 > 0:42:20We will be able to live in space.
0:42:20 > 0:42:23And we could potentially move somewhere in the future
0:42:23 > 0:42:25if this planet is in danger.
0:42:25 > 0:42:31And you can apply this approach, I think, literally, to every threat.
0:42:35 > 0:42:37But he shouldn't relax.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44At Duke University in North Carolina,
0:42:44 > 0:42:47evidence is emerging that challenges key assumptions
0:42:47 > 0:42:49of the mind uploaders.
0:42:50 > 0:42:55Prof Miguel Nicolelis is a brain-machine interface pioneer
0:42:55 > 0:43:00who's developing an exoskeleton to help the paralysed walk.
0:43:00 > 0:43:04He rejects the analogy used by many neuroscientists
0:43:04 > 0:43:07that the brain works like a computer.
0:43:08 > 0:43:12This is a common metaphor that has quite a lot of power
0:43:12 > 0:43:15because computers have acquired a lot of power.
0:43:15 > 0:43:20And they are the most complex things that, arguably, humans make.
0:43:22 > 0:43:24But they don't even get close
0:43:24 > 0:43:27to the level of complexity that a human brain
0:43:27 > 0:43:29is capable of handling or generating.
0:43:29 > 0:43:32After all, computers are just projections
0:43:32 > 0:43:33from our abstract thinking
0:43:33 > 0:43:38but they don't use neither the language nor the logic
0:43:38 > 0:43:41that our brains actually utilise...
0:43:41 > 0:43:45employ to actually produce these abstractions.
0:43:46 > 0:43:51The brain is so complex because it is constantly changing.
0:43:51 > 0:43:53The best analogy I have for the brain
0:43:53 > 0:43:55is that the brain is like an orchestra.
0:43:55 > 0:44:00That every time it composes or plays a tune,
0:44:00 > 0:44:03the tune itself changes the instruments of the orchestra.
0:44:03 > 0:44:07The way complexity emerges from, you know,
0:44:07 > 0:44:10the biological matter that forms our brains
0:44:10 > 0:44:14is very different from what you get from pieces of electronics.
0:44:17 > 0:44:19Let's turn on the pre-amps.
0:44:22 > 0:44:25Now we're connecting to a brain.
0:44:25 > 0:44:27Miguel is running an experiment
0:44:27 > 0:44:30to harness the ability of the brain to adapt
0:44:30 > 0:44:33that could one day help blind people see.
0:44:33 > 0:44:35We have it set up.
0:44:36 > 0:44:38OK, she's doing it.
0:44:38 > 0:44:41On the rat's head are four sensors.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43When they detect infrared light,
0:44:43 > 0:44:48they send electrical pulses to electrodes in her brain.
0:44:48 > 0:44:51Eric implanted the tactile part of her cortex,
0:44:51 > 0:44:54the part of the cortex, this surface of the brain here,
0:44:54 > 0:44:56that processes information from the face -
0:44:56 > 0:44:59more precisely, from the whiskers in the face.
0:44:59 > 0:45:03Infrared light is fired randomly from different directions.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07If the rat goes to its source, she gets a reward.
0:45:07 > 0:45:11- Wow!- She's doing almost 100% now.
0:45:11 > 0:45:13Her reaction time is amazing.
0:45:13 > 0:45:15She just jumps to the correct one.
0:45:15 > 0:45:17If it was a visible light, it's as fast.
0:45:17 > 0:45:21Yeah, look at that, she just jumped to that one.
0:45:21 > 0:45:24The rat's performance is revealing something extraordinary.
0:45:24 > 0:45:29She's going after the infrared beam just by sensing it,
0:45:29 > 0:45:30feeling it, as if it was...
0:45:30 > 0:45:35if it were a tactile stimulation to her body,
0:45:35 > 0:45:37to her face, more specifically.
0:45:37 > 0:45:40I would give a lot just to talk to this rat
0:45:40 > 0:45:43and learn what she's feeling right now.
0:45:43 > 0:45:47Must be a weird tactile sensation to touch light.
0:45:53 > 0:45:56This work could lead to neuro-prosthetic devices
0:45:56 > 0:45:59that give sight to the blind
0:45:59 > 0:46:01and even extend it.
0:46:01 > 0:46:04Most of the effort today is to put an implant in the retina
0:46:04 > 0:46:05but that's very difficult.
0:46:05 > 0:46:08Why not go to the visual cortex directly
0:46:08 > 0:46:11and create not only regular vision
0:46:11 > 0:46:14but also provide other types of inputs,
0:46:14 > 0:46:16infrared or X-ray or whatever?
0:46:16 > 0:46:18It may become useful.
0:46:20 > 0:46:22By taking on a new sense,
0:46:22 > 0:46:25this rat could also confound the mind uploaders.
0:46:25 > 0:46:28It doesn't really support their argument.
0:46:31 > 0:46:34It supports the fact that brains can learn new tricks.
0:46:34 > 0:46:36That's what brains are good for.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40It gets raw information and generates something out of it -
0:46:40 > 0:46:42knowledge.
0:46:42 > 0:46:44That transformation cannot be done in a machine like that.
0:46:44 > 0:46:46You're never going to get a machine
0:46:46 > 0:46:49to generate knowledge out of information.
0:46:49 > 0:46:52Miguel believes the dynamic complexity of the brain,
0:46:52 > 0:46:55from which the human condition emerges,
0:46:55 > 0:46:57cannot be replicated.
0:47:00 > 0:47:05You cannot code intuition. You cannot code aesthetic beauty.
0:47:07 > 0:47:11You cannot code love or hate or prejudice.
0:47:11 > 0:47:15There is no way you will ever see a human brain
0:47:15 > 0:47:17reduced to a digital medium.
0:47:17 > 0:47:19It's simply impossible to reduce the complexity
0:47:19 > 0:47:23to the kind of algorithmic process
0:47:23 > 0:47:25that you would have to have to do that.
0:47:27 > 0:47:31If somebody is saying that the brain is not computational,
0:47:31 > 0:47:35the question becomes, what is it, then?
0:47:37 > 0:47:44Because computational is essentially another term for materialist,
0:47:44 > 0:47:48that it obeys the laws of physics, of cause and effect.
0:47:48 > 0:47:52Are we saying that the brain is not a device
0:47:52 > 0:47:54that obeys the laws of cause and effect?
0:47:58 > 0:48:01But could the brain obey the laws of physics
0:48:01 > 0:48:03without being a computer?
0:48:05 > 0:48:08At Columbia University, questions are being asked
0:48:08 > 0:48:12about whether the brain could be a biological machine
0:48:12 > 0:48:14that might be impossible to copy.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18The idea that you can upload the mind
0:48:18 > 0:48:21assumes that the mind is some sort of digital computer.
0:48:21 > 0:48:25But the activity of one of the simplest brains in evolution
0:48:25 > 0:48:29suggests it might work in a very different way.
0:48:29 > 0:48:33What's really surprising is what happened, like, right here.
0:48:34 > 0:48:36When there is activity going on
0:48:36 > 0:48:41in the nervous system of the animal without any apparent movement,
0:48:41 > 0:48:43without any apparent contraction,
0:48:43 > 0:48:46this continuous pattern is like a flash.
0:48:46 > 0:48:49It goes through the whole body of the animal
0:48:49 > 0:48:51and it's really exciting.
0:48:51 > 0:48:55It's... You know, scientists, we thrive on trying to understand
0:48:55 > 0:48:57things that are mysteries or puzzles.
0:48:57 > 0:49:00It is a puzzle because it can't be explained
0:49:00 > 0:49:04by the traditional model of the brain used in neuroscience.
0:49:07 > 0:49:12You can imagine that the mind or brain would be this box.
0:49:12 > 0:49:16And this box reflects the sensory inputs
0:49:16 > 0:49:21that are coming in from the outside, the sensory world,
0:49:21 > 0:49:26and uses that information to generate a motor output.
0:49:26 > 0:49:27And this is our behaviour.
0:49:27 > 0:49:31So it's a very simple input/output machine,
0:49:31 > 0:49:32just like a digital computer.
0:49:34 > 0:49:38This model cannot explain the continual activity of the brain.
0:49:40 > 0:49:43Why do the neurons in this animal fire spontaneously
0:49:43 > 0:49:45when the animal is not doing anything?
0:49:45 > 0:49:48What is it doing? Is it thinking?
0:49:48 > 0:49:51Rafael is developing a theory that tries to explain
0:49:51 > 0:49:55how the spontaneous activity in the brain is generated.
0:49:55 > 0:50:00It's not that the brain reflects the world, is a copy of the world.
0:50:00 > 0:50:03It's the opposite - that the brain generates the world.
0:50:03 > 0:50:05The world is a copy of our brain.
0:50:05 > 0:50:08What we perceive, what we see is not what's out there.
0:50:08 > 0:50:10It's what we have inside.
0:50:10 > 0:50:12There is activity going on here,
0:50:12 > 0:50:15regardless of whether there's input or not.
0:50:15 > 0:50:18The input and the output are not essential.
0:50:18 > 0:50:21What's essential is actually this internal machine
0:50:21 > 0:50:24and this may be very different from a digital computer.
0:50:24 > 0:50:26It's not a machine that you can understand
0:50:26 > 0:50:28by taking it step by step,
0:50:28 > 0:50:30like you can with this machine.
0:50:30 > 0:50:34The old model assumed each neuron had a specific job to do.
0:50:34 > 0:50:36For several decades,
0:50:36 > 0:50:38the focus of neuroscience has turned
0:50:38 > 0:50:41to how vast groups of neurons work together.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45Now Rafael is trying to develop the tools
0:50:45 > 0:50:48to see the activity of all the neurons in a brain
0:50:48 > 0:50:49at the same time.
0:50:50 > 0:50:54So this is just like trying to watch a TV screen.
0:50:54 > 0:50:55You're looking at a movie
0:50:55 > 0:50:57and imagine trying to see that movie
0:50:57 > 0:50:59if you can only see a single pixel of the screen.
0:50:59 > 0:51:01You'd never understand what's playing.
0:51:01 > 0:51:05So what if the function of the brain,
0:51:05 > 0:51:07it's like that TV screen,
0:51:07 > 0:51:09and each neuron is one pixel.
0:51:10 > 0:51:14And the movie that's playing, the movie is an emerging property.
0:51:14 > 0:51:17By definition, again, it's not present in the individual pixel.
0:51:17 > 0:51:20You have to look at them all together.
0:51:20 > 0:51:23Dmitry Itskov's dream of immortality
0:51:23 > 0:51:25hangs in the balance
0:51:25 > 0:51:28between two visions of how the brain might work.
0:51:29 > 0:51:34If that's true, you may be able to download the mind of a person
0:51:34 > 0:51:37because it would be downloading all the information
0:51:37 > 0:51:39and then play it back.
0:51:39 > 0:51:43But if this is the way the brain works,
0:51:43 > 0:51:49then it's not obvious to me that you're going to be able to do this.
0:51:49 > 0:51:51And it depends on this issue
0:51:51 > 0:51:54of whether the brain's a computer or not.
0:51:55 > 0:51:57For all the competing views
0:51:57 > 0:52:00of how the brain might give rise to every aspect of us,
0:52:00 > 0:52:03there is no scientific proof
0:52:03 > 0:52:06that mind uploading could be done or not.
0:52:17 > 0:52:18In its absence,
0:52:18 > 0:52:23Dr Ken Hayworth is pressing on with his own plan to upload his mind.
0:52:25 > 0:52:32I'm probably a very practical, brute-force-minded thinker.
0:52:34 > 0:52:37Ken has come to 21st Century Medicine,
0:52:37 > 0:52:40east of Los Angeles, to see a new prototype.
0:52:40 > 0:52:44He hopes it will deliver the clever twist at the heart of his plan
0:52:44 > 0:52:46to achieve immortality.
0:52:47 > 0:52:50Let's find some way to just stop time.
0:52:54 > 0:52:55All right!
0:52:56 > 0:52:59Dr Robert McIntyre has devised a new way
0:52:59 > 0:53:03to try to stop time's relentless motion.
0:53:03 > 0:53:05All right, here are the samples.
0:53:07 > 0:53:11All right, so here is the pig brain right there...
0:53:13 > 0:53:16- ..frozen in time.- Wow!
0:53:16 > 0:53:18This biomedical company
0:53:18 > 0:53:22develops new preservation methods for entire organs.
0:53:23 > 0:53:25Ken's aim is different.
0:53:25 > 0:53:28He wants to preserve the information within a brain
0:53:28 > 0:53:30until science can extract it.
0:53:30 > 0:53:36This brain was profused with fixative, glutaraldehyde,
0:53:36 > 0:53:39so that it literally solidifies without freezing?
0:53:39 > 0:53:41- Yeah.- Wow!
0:53:44 > 0:53:48The fixing agent glutaraldehyde renders the brain dead.
0:53:49 > 0:53:55It's basically saying let's not be scared of injecting somebody
0:53:55 > 0:53:58with a completely deadly poison, glutaraldehyde,
0:53:58 > 0:54:01because, after all, that is simply
0:54:01 > 0:54:04gluing the molecular machinery in place,
0:54:04 > 0:54:06which preserves its information.
0:54:09 > 0:54:14Other immortalists preserve brains to try to revive them in the future.
0:54:14 > 0:54:17Ken's plan relies on trying to preserve the information
0:54:17 > 0:54:20he believes lies in the connectome.
0:54:22 > 0:54:26If I am looking down at these electron micrographs
0:54:26 > 0:54:29and I see that basic connectivity,
0:54:29 > 0:54:32the synaptic connection between two neurons,
0:54:32 > 0:54:35then I can really be quite sure
0:54:35 > 0:54:42that the function or memories that that piece of brain tissue encoded
0:54:42 > 0:54:44is still there.
0:54:44 > 0:54:49Dr McIntyre's method does preserve connections between neurons
0:54:49 > 0:54:52but whether the connectome encodes memories
0:54:52 > 0:54:55and whether they could be preserved is unknown.
0:54:56 > 0:54:59But Ken believes a method like this
0:54:59 > 0:55:02will soon let him travel into the future.
0:55:02 > 0:55:08The preserved brain at this level should store all of those memories,
0:55:08 > 0:55:10all of those personality traits
0:55:10 > 0:55:13for thousands of years in storage.
0:55:13 > 0:55:17That could allow imaging technologies of the future
0:55:17 > 0:55:19to read off the connectome
0:55:19 > 0:55:21and potentially simulate it.
0:55:23 > 0:55:26If there was ever a reliable method,
0:55:26 > 0:55:30Ken wants every hospital to offer the terminally ill
0:55:30 > 0:55:32the option of preserving their brains,
0:55:32 > 0:55:36even if it means choosing to die.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39Let's say I am diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
0:55:39 > 0:55:41It would make no sense whatsoever
0:55:41 > 0:55:47to slowly, painfully be erased in front of all of my loved ones
0:55:47 > 0:55:50until I finally have my heart stop.
0:55:50 > 0:55:52It would make much more sense
0:55:52 > 0:55:59to say, "We've got to intervene before you are erased.
0:55:59 > 0:56:01"We've got to intervene."
0:56:01 > 0:56:04And that intervention is in the form of
0:56:04 > 0:56:10preserving the brain structures before they get destroyed,
0:56:10 > 0:56:15with the legitimate hope that a century from now
0:56:15 > 0:56:18science will advance to bring you back.
0:56:25 > 0:56:28Across the world, the immortalists are gathering strength.
0:56:30 > 0:56:33Their case is built on many profound unknowns
0:56:33 > 0:56:37but neuroscience cannot rule out the possibility
0:56:37 > 0:56:38of uploading the mind.
0:56:40 > 0:56:45The pathway that leads within new neuro-technologies
0:56:45 > 0:56:46to our understanding of the brain
0:56:46 > 0:56:49is the same pathway that could lead, theoretically,
0:56:49 > 0:56:52to the possibility of mind uploading.
0:56:52 > 0:56:55I do think that scientists that are involved in this method
0:56:55 > 0:56:59have the responsibility to think ahead.
0:56:59 > 0:57:04Mind uploading would usher in a world fraught with risk.
0:57:04 > 0:57:06If you could replicate the mind
0:57:06 > 0:57:08and upload it into a different material,
0:57:08 > 0:57:11you can, in principle, clone minds. These are complicated issues
0:57:11 > 0:57:16because they deal with the core of defining what is a person.
0:57:16 > 0:57:19Rafael is on the Brain Initiative's ethics panel
0:57:19 > 0:57:23that oversees how new technologies are used.
0:57:23 > 0:57:27I would put the mind uploading in the list of the topics
0:57:27 > 0:57:31that should be very carefully discussed and thought through.
0:57:33 > 0:57:39I will answer you to the question of ethics
0:57:39 > 0:57:44by the opinion which was given to me
0:57:44 > 0:57:46by His Holiness the Dalai Lama
0:57:46 > 0:57:48when I visited him in 2013.
0:57:48 > 0:57:53So his point was that you can do everything
0:57:53 > 0:57:55if your motivation is to help people.
0:57:55 > 0:57:58Since the dawn of humankind,
0:57:58 > 0:58:02impossible dreams of immortality have burned in the minds of some.
0:58:04 > 0:58:07For the next few centuries,
0:58:07 > 0:58:10I would envision having multiple bodies
0:58:10 > 0:58:15and one probably would live in something like a traditional Earth.
0:58:15 > 0:58:18The other body will be probably somewhere in space.
0:58:20 > 0:58:25As the scientific search for the butterflies of the soul intensifies,
0:58:25 > 0:58:26we are still to discover
0:58:26 > 0:58:30if our consciousness could ever be replicated in a machine.
0:58:32 > 0:58:35Another body would probably be hologram-like
0:58:35 > 0:58:40and I envision my consciousness just moving from one to another.
0:58:41 > 0:58:45We are now embarking on a journey into a very different world.
0:58:46 > 0:58:50Whether we find we can live for ever in machines or not,
0:58:50 > 0:58:55for some, the journey will certainly change what it is to be human.