Jimmy Carr and the Science of Laughter

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0:00:07 > 0:00:10Tonight on Horizon, as part of BBC's sitcom season,

0:00:10 > 0:00:13the science of laughter. THEY LAUGH

0:00:13 > 0:00:15What is it? Why do we love it so much?

0:00:15 > 0:00:17And what has it got to do with comedy?

0:00:20 > 0:00:22But seeing as how the Horizon team aren't that funny

0:00:22 > 0:00:26in and of themselves, they've decided to hire a studio...

0:00:28 > 0:00:29..round up an audience...

0:00:31 > 0:00:33..and asked me to take charge.

0:00:36 > 0:00:40Horizon on laughter, like you've never seen it before.

0:00:40 > 0:00:42HE LAUGHS

0:00:51 > 0:00:53APPLAUSE

0:00:55 > 0:00:57Hello, everyone, I'm Jimmy Carr.

0:00:57 > 0:00:59In case you were wondering, this is still Horizon,

0:00:59 > 0:01:02the proper grown-up BBC science documentary series.

0:01:02 > 0:01:04Don't worry, I'll be on my best behaviour.

0:01:04 > 0:01:08There'll be none of my usual innuendo, because if this works out,

0:01:08 > 0:01:10I might get to meet Professor Brian Cox,

0:01:10 > 0:01:12and I can't tell you how much I love Cox.

0:01:12 > 0:01:14LAUGHTER

0:01:14 > 0:01:16Come on!

0:01:17 > 0:01:18So, I've got some great news -

0:01:18 > 0:01:21science has taken time out from giving your job to a robot,

0:01:21 > 0:01:24designing GM crops and cloning designer babies

0:01:24 > 0:01:26to investigate laughter.

0:01:26 > 0:01:27Rest assured, I'm not in charge.

0:01:27 > 0:01:30When it comes to the science stuff, we've called in the experts.

0:01:30 > 0:01:33We've got a group of eminent laughter scientists -

0:01:33 > 0:01:35yes, that is a real thing -

0:01:35 > 0:01:37and they're here, poised to enlighten.

0:01:37 > 0:01:39It's like Laboratoires Garnier back there.

0:01:39 > 0:01:43- Hello, the scientists. ALL:- Hi.

0:01:43 > 0:01:45We've also visited scientists who make people laugh

0:01:45 > 0:01:47and others who make animals laugh.

0:01:47 > 0:01:49We've caused pain, scanned brains

0:01:49 > 0:01:52and visited some of the least funny places on the planet,

0:01:52 > 0:01:55all in a bid to get to the bottom of laughter.

0:01:55 > 0:01:58And we've got a room full of unsuspecting volunteers,

0:01:58 > 0:02:00who think they're just an audience.

0:02:00 > 0:02:02AUDIENCE LAUGHS

0:02:02 > 0:02:04And that was nervous laughter.

0:02:04 > 0:02:05AUDIENCE LAUGHS LOUDLY

0:02:05 > 0:02:09EB White once said analysing comedy is like dissecting a frog -

0:02:09 > 0:02:12few people are interested and the frog dies.

0:02:13 > 0:02:15But what did he know?

0:02:15 > 0:02:17This is going to be the most fun science show

0:02:17 > 0:02:19since the one where they let Stephen Hawking use

0:02:19 > 0:02:21the Large Hadron Collider as a water slide.

0:02:21 > 0:02:24LAUGHTER Right, let's crack on.

0:02:24 > 0:02:26Probably a good idea to start with some classic jokes.

0:02:35 > 0:02:37Two monkeys in a bath.

0:02:37 > 0:02:40One says to the other, "Ooh-ooh-ooh, ah-ah-ah."

0:02:40 > 0:02:42The other says, "Well, put the cold tap on, then."

0:02:44 > 0:02:45How do you make a cat go woof?

0:02:46 > 0:02:48Pour petrol on it and light it.

0:02:54 > 0:02:55These are the clean ones.

0:02:57 > 0:03:00I was walking with my wife when I saw six men kicking and punching

0:03:00 > 0:03:03my mother-in-law. My wife said, "Aren't you going to help?"

0:03:03 > 0:03:05I said, "No, six should be enough."

0:03:07 > 0:03:10A policeman came to my front door and said,

0:03:10 > 0:03:13"I'm sorry, sir, but it looks like your wife's been in an accident."

0:03:13 > 0:03:15I said, "I know, but she's got a cracking personality."

0:03:17 > 0:03:21Now, here's a question you never hear a stand-up comedian ask.

0:03:21 > 0:03:23Why did you laugh at those jokes?

0:03:23 > 0:03:25Does anyone have any ideas on why they laughed?

0:03:25 > 0:03:26I hate cats.

0:03:28 > 0:03:30"I hate cats" is a very good answer.

0:03:30 > 0:03:31I'm sure that's not the case, though,

0:03:31 > 0:03:34that's just another joke on top of that one, so...

0:03:34 > 0:03:36- Any ideas on why you laughed? - Nostalgia.- Because it's funny.

0:03:36 > 0:03:38Nostalgia is a very good one, yeah,

0:03:38 > 0:03:40cos they're old classic school jokes,

0:03:40 > 0:03:41and the familiarity of that.

0:03:41 > 0:03:45That is kind of a...that's a reason sometimes. Any other...

0:03:45 > 0:03:48- thoughts?- Breaking the ice?

0:03:48 > 0:03:50Well, I suppose it is, yeah, that social activity.

0:03:50 > 0:03:53I think we're going to talk about that later on - that idea that

0:03:53 > 0:03:55laughter as a kind of group activity.

0:03:55 > 0:03:57Don't panic, we're going to explain all this.

0:03:59 > 0:04:01This is Horizon, so let's throw some science at the problem.

0:04:05 > 0:04:07University College London...

0:04:08 > 0:04:10..boasting impressive neoclassical architecture

0:04:10 > 0:04:12and a solid academic heritage.

0:04:14 > 0:04:16And, more recently, it's gained a reputation as somewhere

0:04:16 > 0:04:20where laughter is taken very seriously indeed.

0:04:21 > 0:04:22THEY LAUGH

0:04:22 > 0:04:25Today, Professor Sophie Scott...

0:04:26 > 0:04:29..is gathering raw material for her research.

0:04:30 > 0:04:33What we're just going to do is go through some videos

0:04:33 > 0:04:38- and just really find some stuff that makes you laugh, OK?- OK.

0:04:38 > 0:04:41Cos the point of this is, I don't really care what it is,

0:04:41 > 0:04:44I'd just like to collect some really nice laughter from you.

0:04:46 > 0:04:48And to ensure a perfect recording...

0:04:49 > 0:04:52..she's using UCL's anechoic chamber.

0:04:52 > 0:04:54It just means no echo.

0:04:54 > 0:04:57What we're doing here is we're recording somebody

0:04:57 > 0:04:58laughing spontaneously.

0:04:59 > 0:05:00Get nice and comfortable.

0:05:01 > 0:05:05So, I'm playing her something, which we're both fairly confident

0:05:05 > 0:05:07is going to make her laugh.

0:05:07 > 0:05:08VOLUNTEER LAUGHS

0:05:08 > 0:05:11I just got really interested that everything done on emotions

0:05:11 > 0:05:14is negative, and it turned out that the psychologist Paul Ekman

0:05:14 > 0:05:17had suggested that there might well be positive emotions,

0:05:17 > 0:05:19which might actually be basic emotions.

0:05:19 > 0:05:22And in fact he'd said they may well be primarily conveyed

0:05:22 > 0:05:25with the voice, so I thought, "Brilliant, that's what I do".

0:05:25 > 0:05:29Sophie discovered that laughter is something all humans understand,

0:05:29 > 0:05:32regardless of location, culture or language.

0:05:32 > 0:05:33VOLUNTEER LAUGHS

0:05:33 > 0:05:37I think it's really important to study laughter because first of all,

0:05:37 > 0:05:39it's a basic expression of emotion.

0:05:39 > 0:05:41It's a non-verbal expression of emotion,

0:05:41 > 0:05:44but it's one we drop into all the time.

0:05:44 > 0:05:47VOLUNTEER LAUGHS LOUDLY

0:05:47 > 0:05:50We drop into this old mammal vocal behaviour,

0:05:50 > 0:05:53to do a lot of the emotional work of an interaction.

0:05:53 > 0:05:56VOLUNTEER LAUGHS

0:05:57 > 0:06:00Right, I found a really nice bit of laughter and then I lost it again,

0:06:00 > 0:06:01so that's what I'm trying to do.

0:06:01 > 0:06:03VOLUNTEER LAUGHTER CONTINUES

0:06:03 > 0:06:06There we go. Wasn't that lovely?

0:06:08 > 0:06:10I realise that being delighted by a spectrogram

0:06:10 > 0:06:12is sort of niche interest.

0:06:16 > 0:06:19Well, fascinating stuff. And she's here to talk about her research.

0:06:19 > 0:06:22Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the studio

0:06:22 > 0:06:24Professor Sophie Scott.

0:06:26 > 0:06:29- Hello. Proper science. - Proper science.

0:06:29 > 0:06:32- Hello, Professor Sophie Scott, how are you?- I'm fine, thank you.

0:06:32 > 0:06:35OK, so, you're saying everyone laughs?

0:06:35 > 0:06:36As far as we can tell,

0:06:36 > 0:06:39when we have done some cross-cultural work on this,

0:06:39 > 0:06:41wherever you go in the world, people recognise laughter.

0:06:41 > 0:06:44Even if you go to a culture where people might not laugh in public,

0:06:44 > 0:06:46cos maybe it's rude, they still recognise laughter,

0:06:46 > 0:06:48and they will still do it in some places.

0:06:48 > 0:06:51- Even like Inverness on a bank holiday Monday?- Potentially!

0:06:51 > 0:06:53Technically, I should be able to get laughs out of those people,

0:06:53 > 0:06:56even if, in reality, not the case.

0:06:56 > 0:06:58They might know it when they saw it happening,

0:06:58 > 0:07:01if you made someone else laugh, they might know what's going on.

0:07:01 > 0:07:03You're saying it's a universal across humanity?

0:07:03 > 0:07:04We don't have the same sense of humour,

0:07:04 > 0:07:06- but we all recognise laughter? - Exactly.

0:07:06 > 0:07:09Humour can be very, very widely varying

0:07:09 > 0:07:11across different times and places.

0:07:11 > 0:07:14Laughter, as a behaviour, stayed pretty constant.

0:07:14 > 0:07:17- OK, can we demonstrate this?- Yes. We've got an example of somebody

0:07:17 > 0:07:19producing some positive expressions of emotion from...

0:07:19 > 0:07:21He's from the Himba tribe in Namibia.

0:07:24 > 0:07:25Hi, hi-hi!

0:07:25 > 0:07:27Hi-hi!

0:07:27 > 0:07:29Hi, hi, hi...

0:07:30 > 0:07:31Any guesses?

0:07:31 > 0:07:35Obviously, if you're watching in Namibia... I mean...

0:07:35 > 0:07:37Couldn't be more bloody obvious, could it?

0:07:37 > 0:07:40Any idea what emotion that was?

0:07:40 > 0:07:42It looked to me like he was clapping backwards.

0:07:43 > 0:07:45Cos it was kind of... It was a weird kind of...

0:07:45 > 0:07:47So, what he was doing is expressing triumph.

0:07:47 > 0:07:50So, the sort of... Imagine that you all really like football

0:07:50 > 0:07:52and the football team that you like has just scored a goal.

0:07:52 > 0:07:54- Make the sound. - AUDIENCE CHEER

0:07:54 > 0:07:56So, that's what you tend to find in the UK,

0:07:56 > 0:07:59people making a triumphant noise sensibly, so like a whoo sound.

0:07:59 > 0:08:01And that's not the noise the Himba make,

0:08:01 > 0:08:03and it's not cross-culturally recognised.

0:08:03 > 0:08:05Let's have another look at this guy.

0:08:05 > 0:08:08- Hi, hi-hi! - HE LAUGHS

0:08:08 > 0:08:11AUDIENCE LAUGHS

0:08:12 > 0:08:14OK, so at the end there, did we all get what was he doing?

0:08:14 > 0:08:16Yeah.

0:08:16 > 0:08:17So, that's uni...

0:08:17 > 0:08:19That's in every culture around the world, the laugh is...

0:08:19 > 0:08:21You'd be able to tell someone was laughing?

0:08:21 > 0:08:23Yes, you would know what was happening.

0:08:23 > 0:08:26The idea with basic expressions of emotion is that they reflect

0:08:26 > 0:08:28something about our evolutionary history, we share them

0:08:28 > 0:08:31with other mammals. Things like fear, anger, disgust, sadness.

0:08:31 > 0:08:33You find those in other mammals.

0:08:33 > 0:08:36So, anger in a dog's face isn't that different from anger

0:08:36 > 0:08:37in a human face.

0:08:39 > 0:08:41It's possible that we need to add laughter

0:08:41 > 0:08:43to this set of basic emotions.

0:08:43 > 0:08:46Right. So, not everyone laughs at the same things, obviously,

0:08:46 > 0:08:49we all have a different sense of humour. Take a look.

0:09:00 > 0:09:02Americans don't tend to really know that much about the world,

0:09:02 > 0:09:04so they don't get other people so much.

0:09:04 > 0:09:08At the moment, the in-thing is about quail birds.

0:09:08 > 0:09:11Just someone that's a grown man, maybe acting like a child.

0:09:12 > 0:09:15Excuse me. Too much gas.

0:09:15 > 0:09:20Armenians are famous for having a good sense of humour, and...

0:09:20 > 0:09:21Yeah.

0:09:23 > 0:09:27Got a new car. They say she's probably got a quail farm.

0:09:27 > 0:09:29What makes me laugh is cheeky banter.

0:09:29 > 0:09:33Squirrels, cats, ravens eating chips.

0:09:33 > 0:09:36I think the British humour is so sharp and so cutting.

0:09:36 > 0:09:39Do you want to hear a joke about helium? Hee-hee-hee.

0:09:39 > 0:09:42Our satire is more like a gentle satire.

0:09:42 > 0:09:46In the Philippines, we make fun of dumb people.

0:09:46 > 0:09:49It's like trying to explain what makes a man's heart beat

0:09:49 > 0:09:53when he sees a blue-eyed blonde with amazing jugs.

0:09:53 > 0:09:56If you're looking good, you've probably...

0:09:56 > 0:10:00Got a few quail birds...in your purse!

0:10:00 > 0:10:03British people are famous for self-laughing.

0:10:03 > 0:10:05Jimmy Carr's one-liners.

0:10:05 > 0:10:07He's my favourite comedian I know of.

0:10:07 > 0:10:09"We in America, we wash hands."

0:10:09 > 0:10:12And the attendant guy turns to him and says,

0:10:12 > 0:10:14"You know we in Lithuania, we don't pee on our hands."

0:10:14 > 0:10:16What do you do with a dead chemist?

0:10:16 > 0:10:17You barium.

0:10:17 > 0:10:19And you end up wanting to look like a quail

0:10:19 > 0:10:21because you're worth a lot of money.

0:10:22 > 0:10:27So, it's a pain au chocolat meeting a croissant and he's asking,

0:10:27 > 0:10:30"Why are you so weird? Why do you have a moon shape?"

0:10:30 > 0:10:33And the other one says, "What are you talking about?

0:10:33 > 0:10:36"Because you have, like, shit all over your ass."

0:10:38 > 0:10:40SHE SPEAKS FRENCH

0:10:48 > 0:10:51So, laughter is universal but what we laugh at

0:10:51 > 0:10:53is cultural and personal.

0:10:53 > 0:10:56Sophie, everyone does it, everyone understands what it means,

0:10:56 > 0:10:58but what actually is laughter?

0:10:58 > 0:11:00Laughter's more like a different way of breathing

0:11:00 > 0:11:02than it as anything else. So, what we are all doing right now,

0:11:02 > 0:11:05hopefully, is using the intercostal muscles,

0:11:05 > 0:11:08the muscles between our ribs, to get air in and out of our bodies.

0:11:08 > 0:11:09It's called metabolic breathing. Exactly.

0:11:09 > 0:11:11You breathe in, you breathe out.

0:11:11 > 0:11:13Air's being drawn in and then squeezed back out again.

0:11:13 > 0:11:16- I'm good at this.- So, were I to look at your chest wall moving...

0:11:16 > 0:11:18Well, that feels weird.

0:11:18 > 0:11:20I've over-thought it.

0:11:20 > 0:11:23- Go on. My chest wall is moving in and out...- You keep going with that.

0:11:23 > 0:11:26You'd see this almost sinusoidal movement, this very smooth movement.

0:11:26 > 0:11:28You start doing it the minute you're born,

0:11:28 > 0:11:30that's it the whole rest of your life.

0:11:30 > 0:11:32When we start laughing, those same muscles start to contract.

0:11:32 > 0:11:37They're really large deflections, just squeezing air out of you,

0:11:37 > 0:11:39and that's basically all laughter is.

0:11:39 > 0:11:41It's an extremely primitive way of making a sound.

0:11:41 > 0:11:44Ultimately, if you couldn't stop laughing, it'd kill you.

0:11:44 > 0:11:47- Yeah.- Basically, I'm a deadly weapon, is what you're saying.

0:11:47 > 0:11:49You definitely are. It's just squeezing air out of you,

0:11:49 > 0:11:52it stops you breathing, it stops you talking, it's trying to kill you.

0:11:52 > 0:11:55- And we've rigged some people up, so we can show this.- Exactly.

0:11:55 > 0:11:58And what we'll notice is, hopefully, if you can make them laugh,

0:11:58 > 0:12:00that both the very fine movement you get during talking

0:12:00 > 0:12:04and the smooth movement that you get during breathing, should go away.

0:12:04 > 0:12:06And instead, what we get is just these big zigzags

0:12:06 > 0:12:08as air's just being squeezed out of you.

0:12:08 > 0:12:10OK, so, are we looking at them breathing first?

0:12:10 > 0:12:12Well, hopefully they're already breathing.

0:12:12 > 0:12:14- OK, so are they breathing? - Hopefully!

0:12:14 > 0:12:17- I can see them breathing.- They're breathing now and you're happy?

0:12:17 > 0:12:20Sinead, your PhD assistant... Hi, Sinead. How are you?

0:12:20 > 0:12:23So, you're saying those two ladies are alive?

0:12:23 > 0:12:25- Fantastic.- This is incredible science.

0:12:26 > 0:12:28- So, I've got to try and make them laugh now?- Please.

0:12:28 > 0:12:30Right, I'll do some jokes from over here.

0:12:30 > 0:12:33We've got a performance area with... Yay, everyone.

0:12:33 > 0:12:36- AUDIENCE:- Yay!- OK.

0:12:36 > 0:12:39I look like this, obviously, because my dad is Irish and my mum is...

0:12:39 > 0:12:41Roger Federer.

0:12:41 > 0:12:43LAUGHTER

0:12:43 > 0:12:46I feel like you're laughing at me, not with me, there.

0:12:46 > 0:12:50A nurse finds a rectal thermometer in her pocket and thinks,

0:12:50 > 0:12:51"Some arsehole's got my pen."

0:12:54 > 0:12:56I got talking to a North African girl recently

0:12:56 > 0:12:58in her native language, for hours.

0:12:58 > 0:13:00We just...clicked.

0:13:03 > 0:13:04That's enough of that.

0:13:04 > 0:13:07We should be able to see some sort of difference then, so...

0:13:07 > 0:13:09- Did you see anything there? Oh. - Oh, look at that.

0:13:09 > 0:13:11Can you see at the bottom there, she's breathing,

0:13:11 > 0:13:14and then you're really making her laugh. Can you see the big zigzags?

0:13:14 > 0:13:16- Then breath, breath, breath and then zigzags again.- Hang on,

0:13:16 > 0:13:18I'm going over to have a look. I'm going to use

0:13:18 > 0:13:21one of these technical fingers. So, that was the laugh?

0:13:21 > 0:13:23- Yes, that's the laugh there. - That's a pretty big laugh.

0:13:23 > 0:13:25That's pretty big, and there's a big...

0:13:25 > 0:13:28If you look at the top as well, the person at the top is also laughing.

0:13:28 > 0:13:30Yeah, but she wasn't really into it. LAUGHTER

0:13:30 > 0:13:32- You were funny earlier. - It feels like, if I was...

0:13:32 > 0:13:34If I'm going to work as an assassin,

0:13:34 > 0:13:37and that is ultimately the goal of this show,

0:13:37 > 0:13:41I would not be able to kill the lady in the yellow,

0:13:41 > 0:13:44but the lady in the orange, I think...

0:13:44 > 0:13:46- Yeah.- You better watch yourself, love.

0:13:46 > 0:13:48OK, so, supplemental to that,

0:13:48 > 0:13:51if you were to make someone laugh uncontrollably,

0:13:51 > 0:13:53- could it be a dangerous thing? - Well, it can be.

0:13:53 > 0:13:56I mean, it literally is stopping you from breathing.

0:13:56 > 0:13:57It's just squeezing air out of you

0:13:57 > 0:13:59and it's stopping you doing anything else.

0:13:59 > 0:14:01And there's even a postural reflex

0:14:01 > 0:14:03that means that we're all sitting in our chairs,

0:14:03 > 0:14:04we don't just slump to the ground.

0:14:04 > 0:14:06So even when your muscles aren't working,

0:14:06 > 0:14:08they're holding you in place, and that is suppressed

0:14:08 > 0:14:11when you start laughing. That's why you become weak and floppy

0:14:11 > 0:14:14when you're laughing, and that, inevitably, at some point

0:14:14 > 0:14:16you can become helpless with laughter, at which point,

0:14:16 > 0:14:18if a tiger came in or something, there would be a brief window

0:14:18 > 0:14:20when you wouldn't be able to do much about it.

0:14:20 > 0:14:22Well, my mother, weirdly, had a very odd laugh.

0:14:22 > 0:14:25She had a laugh where she made no noise at all

0:14:25 > 0:14:26- and lost muscular control.- Right.

0:14:26 > 0:14:28So she would just literally, kind of...

0:14:28 > 0:14:31And then, with her last bit of energy she would go,

0:14:31 > 0:14:35"Stop, just stop," and obviously you would never stop.

0:14:35 > 0:14:38I think it's part of the reason I got into doing this for a living,

0:14:38 > 0:14:40because it was the most fun thing in the world to...

0:14:41 > 0:14:44Oh, my mum has melted. Genius.

0:14:44 > 0:14:47So, laughter's different, physiologically, to normal speech.

0:14:47 > 0:14:50If you couldn't stop laughing, it could genuinely harm you.

0:14:50 > 0:14:52I believe we have some MRI scans.

0:14:52 > 0:14:54- We do. We're going to start... - Excellent.

0:14:54 > 0:14:57- Science in...- I'm sorry, I didn't have time to get to the doctor's,

0:14:57 > 0:14:59so we're going to quickly go through these now,

0:14:59 > 0:15:01see if I'm going to make it. So, what are we looking at?

0:15:01 > 0:15:03What we're looking at first is...

0:15:03 > 0:15:06We're running the MRI machine like a video camera,

0:15:06 > 0:15:09so you're literally taking a movie of somebody speaking here.

0:15:09 > 0:15:12What she's doing is she is talking her way through some nursery rhymes

0:15:12 > 0:15:15and you can see everything that's happening during speech -

0:15:15 > 0:15:17very complex movements of the tongue,

0:15:17 > 0:15:19you've got the jaw moving up and down, the lips, the soft palate,

0:15:19 > 0:15:22the bit at the back of your nose, the larynx,

0:15:22 > 0:15:23the voice box is moving up and down.

0:15:23 > 0:15:24So, that's speech -

0:15:24 > 0:15:27very complex, nothing like that out there in nature.

0:15:27 > 0:15:29And then if we move on to the next one,

0:15:29 > 0:15:32which should be somebody laughing. It's the same person laughing.

0:15:32 > 0:15:33We made her laugh in the scanner,

0:15:33 > 0:15:36and if you look, none of that is happening, basically.

0:15:36 > 0:15:39She's moving up and down a lot cos her ribcage is moving.

0:15:39 > 0:15:41The tongue is staying in the bottom of the mouth,

0:15:41 > 0:15:45and if you've ever laughed until the back of your throat hurts,

0:15:45 > 0:15:47you can see why that's happening there, cos actually

0:15:47 > 0:15:49you can see she's squeezing the tongue right back up

0:15:49 > 0:15:51against the pharynx,

0:15:51 > 0:15:54so you're squeezing all that air out through an even narrower pipe.

0:15:54 > 0:15:56I'm sorry, what did you nail her to, to get this to happen?

0:15:58 > 0:16:01Who doesn't move their head even slightly when they laugh?

0:16:01 > 0:16:04She's in something that looks disturbingly like

0:16:04 > 0:16:05a kind of sarcophagus.

0:16:05 > 0:16:09She's in something that's holding her head and shoulders in position

0:16:09 > 0:16:12- so we can image all this bit here. - Where is she now?

0:16:12 > 0:16:15She's alive, she's well, she escaped, she made it through.

0:16:17 > 0:16:20She escaped? LAUGHTER

0:16:20 > 0:16:22OK, so laughter is more like an animal call than speaking -

0:16:22 > 0:16:24primal and contagious. OK, I get that.

0:16:24 > 0:16:28So, that's what laughter is, but what exactly is it for?

0:16:28 > 0:16:30Well, thankfully, one scientist has taken time off

0:16:30 > 0:16:32from developing jet boots, to find out.

0:16:38 > 0:16:40Oxford University boasts some of the prettiest academic buildings

0:16:40 > 0:16:42in the world.

0:16:43 > 0:16:45These grand palaces of learning are largely the preserve

0:16:45 > 0:16:47of the humanities.

0:16:47 > 0:16:51But because Professor Robin Dunbar is a scientist,

0:16:51 > 0:16:52he's forced to work here...

0:16:55 > 0:16:57..in this architectural abomination.

0:16:59 > 0:17:02Out of the sight of tourists and university website photographers.

0:17:03 > 0:17:06Here, geographically and aesthetically isolated,

0:17:06 > 0:17:08Dunbar causes people pain.

0:17:12 > 0:17:15Because he claims it throws light on why we laugh.

0:17:19 > 0:17:22So, what we're doing here is we're looking to see whether

0:17:22 > 0:17:27pain threshold increases after you've laughed.

0:17:27 > 0:17:29First, the baseline measurement.

0:17:29 > 0:17:30OK. Now!

0:17:41 > 0:17:42Stop.

0:17:45 > 0:17:46Stop.

0:17:53 > 0:17:55We have a winner.

0:17:55 > 0:17:56Stop.

0:17:56 > 0:17:57Good work.

0:17:58 > 0:18:00And now the fun part.

0:18:23 > 0:18:25Professor Dunbar is an experimental psychologist

0:18:25 > 0:18:28and an evolutionary biologist...

0:18:29 > 0:18:31..which is quite a mouthful.

0:18:31 > 0:18:34But what it means is he's able to both formulate ideas

0:18:34 > 0:18:37about our species development and also test them in a lab.

0:18:39 > 0:18:41And one of his main ideas is about grooming.

0:18:44 > 0:18:48Monkeys and apes create their friendships,

0:18:48 > 0:18:51their relationships with each other and thereby bond their social groups

0:18:51 > 0:18:55by grooming, social grooming - grooming each other.

0:18:55 > 0:18:57It turns out that that light stroking

0:18:57 > 0:19:00triggers an endorphin response in the brain.

0:19:02 > 0:19:05The problem with grooming is it's a one-on-one activity -

0:19:05 > 0:19:08you can only groom one individual at a time.

0:19:08 > 0:19:10So, the problem is how to sort of groom

0:19:10 > 0:19:12with several people simultaneously.

0:19:16 > 0:19:20Robin's theory holds that laughter is effectively remote tickling,

0:19:20 > 0:19:22producing the same chemical high.

0:19:29 > 0:19:31And if he's right, the laughing volunteers in the lab

0:19:31 > 0:19:34will now be flushed with pain-beating endorphins...

0:19:36 > 0:19:38..and they'll beat their previous times

0:19:38 > 0:19:39in the wall-sit test.

0:19:40 > 0:19:41OK?

0:19:43 > 0:19:45Go.

0:19:59 > 0:20:00Stop.

0:20:02 > 0:20:04Stop.

0:20:11 > 0:20:12Stop.

0:20:16 > 0:20:17Stop.

0:20:25 > 0:20:28It's direct evidence that laughter does produce endorphins.

0:20:30 > 0:20:34Yes, you'd normally expect something between, on average, I don't know,

0:20:34 > 0:20:39about five seconds and anything up to 20 seconds increase in time,

0:20:39 > 0:20:41and that's pretty much what we have here.

0:20:41 > 0:20:43All statistically significant.

0:20:47 > 0:20:51So, laughter can help you get through a painful experience,

0:20:51 > 0:20:54which is why you hear so much of it at my shows.

0:20:54 > 0:20:56Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my next guest,

0:20:56 > 0:20:58evil genius, Professor Robin Dunbar.

0:21:04 > 0:21:06Thanks so much for coming. Take a seat.

0:21:06 > 0:21:08- Hi.- Now, you know Sophie, right? - Yep.

0:21:08 > 0:21:10Of course, all scientists know each other.

0:21:10 > 0:21:11We do, it's a small community.

0:21:11 > 0:21:15So, how did grooming begat laughter?

0:21:16 > 0:21:20Well, essentially, the real problem is that we needed to

0:21:20 > 0:21:24be able to groom, if you like, with more individuals simultaneously

0:21:24 > 0:21:26in order to be able to have much bigger groups

0:21:26 > 0:21:28than is typical of monkeys and apes.

0:21:28 > 0:21:32So, how many in a typical group of monkeys and apes?

0:21:32 > 0:21:35The most social species, baboons, chimpanzees, something like that,

0:21:35 > 0:21:37about 50 is the typical group size.

0:21:37 > 0:21:39And what do they call that, Professor Dunbar?

0:21:39 > 0:21:42- Is it called the Dunbar Number?- Ah.

0:21:42 > 0:21:43What's the Dunbar Number?

0:21:43 > 0:21:46Cos you went ahead and named something after yourself...

0:21:46 > 0:21:48LAUGHTER

0:21:48 > 0:21:50..which is, I mean, ego-wise, pretty terrific.

0:21:50 > 0:21:53- Do they pay you money to say these things?- They do, yeah.

0:21:54 > 0:21:56No, Dunbar's Number is technically

0:21:56 > 0:21:59the number of the size of human groups,

0:21:59 > 0:22:04or the number of friends and family that you have, and that's 150,

0:22:04 > 0:22:08that's three times bigger than the kind of typical biggest groups

0:22:08 > 0:22:10you get in monkeys and apes.

0:22:10 > 0:22:13So, that's because they can individually groom

0:22:13 > 0:22:16other monkeys and apes up to about 50,

0:22:16 > 0:22:18and then they break off and start another group.

0:22:18 > 0:22:20Essentially, that's what ends up happening,

0:22:20 > 0:22:23because if you don't bond with the individuals

0:22:23 > 0:22:29you are part of the group with, the group will gradually split up and...

0:22:30 > 0:22:33..into two separate groups, and that happens with us.

0:22:33 > 0:22:36I mean, if we don't engage constantly with our friends

0:22:36 > 0:22:38and relations and so on,

0:22:38 > 0:22:42gradually those relationships just die quietly away.

0:22:42 > 0:22:44So we have to keep this, kind of what's effectively

0:22:44 > 0:22:47a form of grooming, going.

0:22:47 > 0:22:52And we do it by grooming in the way that monkeys and apes do -

0:22:52 > 0:22:55with the patting and the touch on the shoulder and the cuddling

0:22:55 > 0:22:57and all that kind of stuff.

0:22:57 > 0:22:59We do all that but it's a one-on-one thing

0:22:59 > 0:23:03and you can't do it with more than one person at once.

0:23:03 > 0:23:05Oh, you can. HE LAUGHS

0:23:05 > 0:23:08Welcome to showbusiness, Professor Dunbar.

0:23:08 > 0:23:09But no, I take your point there.

0:23:09 > 0:23:14So the idea of remote tickling, I find very pleasing. The idea that...

0:23:14 > 0:23:17I've kind of, I like to think of myself as a drug dealer,

0:23:17 > 0:23:19but the drug that I'm dealing is endorphins,

0:23:19 > 0:23:20and you've already got the drugs on you

0:23:20 > 0:23:23and I'm just bringing the kind of release mechanism

0:23:23 > 0:23:26- that saves on the transport costs. - It does.

0:23:26 > 0:23:30But, I mean, remember endorphins are related to morphine

0:23:30 > 0:23:32and the opiates in general,

0:23:32 > 0:23:36and that's why you get this kind of light-headed kind of relaxed feeling

0:23:36 > 0:23:38from them, they give you an opiate high.

0:23:38 > 0:23:40- So, you're saying we should try drugs?- Yeah, um...

0:23:40 > 0:23:41You spend all day...

0:23:41 > 0:23:45But the difference with endorphins is you don't get addicted to them

0:23:45 > 0:23:49in the way that you do the normal kind of morphine opiate-type drugs.

0:23:49 > 0:23:51Chemically, they're just slightly different,

0:23:51 > 0:23:54so you don't suffer that kind of physiological addiction.

0:23:54 > 0:23:58But the point is that laughter triggers that system,

0:23:58 > 0:24:02and then allows you in effect to groom with several other people

0:24:02 > 0:24:04at the same time,

0:24:04 > 0:24:07so it then becomes a much more efficient use of time.

0:24:07 > 0:24:12So, we can use the same amount of social time during the day,

0:24:12 > 0:24:14but groom with many more people.

0:24:14 > 0:24:17- Fantastic, so that allows us to have bigger groups...- Yeah.

0:24:17 > 0:24:20- ..and therefore to specialise... - Well, then you can have

0:24:20 > 0:24:23all the things that emerged out of our history, as it were,

0:24:23 > 0:24:24you know, sort of...

0:24:24 > 0:24:27You can have culture because you've got many more minds

0:24:27 > 0:24:31to create novel ideas - write books, tell jokes...

0:24:31 > 0:24:35Excellent. So, laughter is remote grooming, it's a social activity,

0:24:35 > 0:24:37and you're actually 30 times more likely to laugh

0:24:37 > 0:24:39when you're with other people.

0:24:39 > 0:24:41It's an intensely social activity, yes.

0:24:41 > 0:24:46I mean, it's this extraordinary contagion effect of it.

0:24:46 > 0:24:51So you could tell a joke in some language that I don't understand

0:24:51 > 0:24:54and everybody else laughs, I cannot help but laugh with you.

0:24:54 > 0:24:57I simply don't know why I'm laughing, but I have to do it.

0:24:57 > 0:24:59I weirdly have a thing in my relationship where we watch

0:24:59 > 0:25:02certain shows together that I'd never dream of watching

0:25:02 > 0:25:04without the other half.

0:25:04 > 0:25:06And there's a thing about if I do watch something on my own

0:25:06 > 0:25:10on the iPlayer on the computer, you find yourself going,

0:25:10 > 0:25:12- "Oh, that was really funny," but I don't laugh.- Yeah.- Mmm-hmm.

0:25:12 > 0:25:14But if I'm with the other half at home,

0:25:14 > 0:25:18we just really fall about laughing, and it's a lovely...

0:25:18 > 0:25:21I don't know, it's a very comforting sound, hearing your partner laugh.

0:25:21 > 0:25:23OK, so we've put the theory to the test.

0:25:23 > 0:25:25We've isolated one of our audience members.

0:25:25 > 0:25:27Hello, Sherry.

0:25:27 > 0:25:30- Hi, Jimmy.- Hello.

0:25:30 > 0:25:32So, we've stuck you in isolation to watch the programme.

0:25:32 > 0:25:34- Are you enjoying it?- Yes.

0:25:35 > 0:25:37Good. LAUGHTER

0:25:37 > 0:25:39Well, it's been lovely chatting.

0:25:39 > 0:25:41So, you're on your own, watching the show.

0:25:41 > 0:25:43So we're going to have a look at your reaction

0:25:43 > 0:25:46to me telling jokes earlier, to see whether you laughed on your own.

0:25:46 > 0:25:48Let's have a look.

0:25:48 > 0:25:50..designing GM crops and cloning designer babies

0:25:50 > 0:25:52to investigate laughter.

0:25:53 > 0:25:55AUDIENCE LAUGHS

0:25:55 > 0:25:58..thermometer in her pocket and thinks...

0:25:58 > 0:26:00"some arsehole's got my pen."

0:26:02 > 0:26:04AUDIENCE LAUGHS

0:26:06 > 0:26:09So, Sherry, my question to you, why are you being a dick about it?

0:26:10 > 0:26:12I mean, it's a really good example, though,

0:26:12 > 0:26:15of you're watching the show and you seem pretty engaged, but...

0:26:15 > 0:26:17- You're not laughing. - I am laughing...inside.

0:26:19 > 0:26:20You're laughing on the inside?

0:26:21 > 0:26:25No, I mean that's... That's fair enough.

0:26:25 > 0:26:27And then we locked you in a room so you're...

0:26:27 > 0:26:30- You're not well pre-disposed to... - I just feel very much at home now,

0:26:30 > 0:26:33cos this is something that I do just at home by myself,

0:26:33 > 0:26:35watching you.

0:26:35 > 0:26:37LAUGHTER

0:26:40 > 0:26:42Well, you made this weird, Sherry.

0:26:43 > 0:26:46What I do on Snapchat is very much my own business.

0:26:47 > 0:26:50That's a... We'll get you to come into the studio

0:26:50 > 0:26:52for the rest of the show, because we've done this bit.

0:26:52 > 0:26:55But I think that really demonstrates that idea of the social activity,

0:26:55 > 0:26:57and I feel like, as my job being a stand-up,

0:26:57 > 0:27:01people come out to shows partly because they think the person

0:27:01 > 0:27:03onstage is funny, but partly because they want to laugh

0:27:03 > 0:27:05with their partner, with their friends.

0:27:05 > 0:27:08They sort of organically know that they enjoy that experience

0:27:08 > 0:27:10of being together with a room full of people

0:27:10 > 0:27:12that all have the same sense of humour as well.

0:27:12 > 0:27:14But what's kind of interesting, actually,

0:27:14 > 0:27:18if you looked round the room when you could hear laughter,

0:27:18 > 0:27:21it's not everybody that's laughing here.

0:27:21 > 0:27:23And in fact one of the weird things is,

0:27:23 > 0:27:26if you look at people in pubs laughing,

0:27:26 > 0:27:29you almost never get more than three people laughing together.

0:27:30 > 0:27:33But actually, if you think about it, that already makes laughter

0:27:33 > 0:27:35three times more efficient than grooming,

0:27:35 > 0:27:37for triggering the endorphin system,

0:27:37 > 0:27:41because when you groom, it's only the other person that gets the hit.

0:27:41 > 0:27:45When you laugh, you as the joke-teller, laugh as well.

0:27:45 > 0:27:47What you're saying there is when you tell a joke in a pub,

0:27:47 > 0:27:49- three people laugh.- No, two.

0:27:50 > 0:27:52- And you laugh, yeah. - I'm a pro, my friend.

0:27:52 > 0:27:54I can get the whole room.

0:27:54 > 0:27:56But most of the time, if you look,

0:27:56 > 0:27:58you've got...it's like a kind of Mexican wave effect.

0:27:58 > 0:28:00You've got little pockets laughing.

0:28:00 > 0:28:02It sounds like a lot of people laughing, but if you actually look,

0:28:02 > 0:28:04it's sort of going round in little waves.

0:28:04 > 0:28:06I often find that with certain types of jokes as well,

0:28:06 > 0:28:08- you sort of have a ripple effect of...- Yeah.

0:28:08 > 0:28:10..people are laughing and then they're laughing

0:28:10 > 0:28:13- at someone else laughing...- And also a good laugher to trigger it.

0:28:13 > 0:28:16If you've got a good laugher, who laughs at everything,

0:28:16 > 0:28:18it will trigger the waves of laughter round the room.

0:28:18 > 0:28:20Oh, I work with several professionals.

0:28:22 > 0:28:25So, laughter is a group activity but it's also linked to grooming

0:28:25 > 0:28:27in that it strengthens relationships.

0:28:27 > 0:28:30Couples that laugh together, stay together - certainly makes sense.

0:28:30 > 0:28:33There must be something that's stopping the Chuckle Brothers

0:28:33 > 0:28:35from killing each other. Take a look.

0:28:39 > 0:28:42At the University of North Carolina, it's graduation time.

0:28:44 > 0:28:47Students may be leaving, but for staff like Sara Algoe,

0:28:47 > 0:28:48the work goes on.

0:28:50 > 0:28:52I was really interested in laughter

0:28:52 > 0:28:55because it seems like the kind of behaviour that happens

0:28:55 > 0:28:58really frequently and is so relevant to the way

0:28:58 > 0:29:00that people think about

0:29:00 > 0:29:03their best relationships, and yet there is very little research on it.

0:29:07 > 0:29:10In another disproportionately ugly psychology department...

0:29:11 > 0:29:13..on an otherwise very pretty campus...

0:29:17 > 0:29:21..Sarah's PhD student Laura Kurtz is running an experiment

0:29:21 > 0:29:24to try to put some numbers on the idea that people who laugh together

0:29:24 > 0:29:25stay together.

0:29:28 > 0:29:30For this first interaction,

0:29:30 > 0:29:33we're interested in hearing about the first time you met.

0:29:33 > 0:29:35What was the first thing you said to me?

0:29:35 > 0:29:37"I'm going to marry you one day," and you said, "No".

0:29:37 > 0:29:41What I really love about this research is that it's so intuitive,

0:29:41 > 0:29:45so everyone can think of a time when they laughed with somebody.

0:29:45 > 0:29:48So you can think of probably a time in the past day or two,

0:29:48 > 0:29:51when you laughed with your friend or your romantic partner,

0:29:51 > 0:29:54but we can also think of a time when we laughed at something

0:29:54 > 0:29:57but the person next to us did not laugh,

0:29:57 > 0:29:59and suddenly in that moment...

0:30:00 > 0:30:02..what could have potentially been a really powerful thing,

0:30:02 > 0:30:05a powerful behaviour, all of a sudden takes a nosedive.

0:30:07 > 0:30:09After filling out a questionnaire that will tell the researchers

0:30:09 > 0:30:12how happy each of them is in their relationship,

0:30:12 > 0:30:15couples are recorded talking about the first time they met.

0:30:16 > 0:30:18- Yeah.- I thought that was really cute.

0:30:18 > 0:30:20It was cute. I was most probably lying about it, but...

0:30:22 > 0:30:25After the couples left the lab,

0:30:25 > 0:30:27we had a coder go back through all of those

0:30:27 > 0:30:28video-recorded interactions,

0:30:28 > 0:30:32coding for every start and stop time stamp of a laugh.

0:30:32 > 0:30:35- You were expecting me to be boring? - Well, you were a librarian.

0:30:35 > 0:30:37- You read my e-mails.- Yeah, but...

0:30:37 > 0:30:39Yeah, but it was still a librarian. I'm sorry!

0:30:39 > 0:30:41HE LAUGHS

0:30:41 > 0:30:44This is the way that we're able to quantify how much time

0:30:44 > 0:30:47they're spending actually laughing at exactly the same time,

0:30:47 > 0:30:49versus each person laughing separately.

0:30:51 > 0:30:52Oh, my gosh.

0:30:52 > 0:30:56So, what we found was that moments of shared laughter

0:30:56 > 0:30:59actually are predictive of greater closeness

0:30:59 > 0:31:02and feeling more supported by one's partner.

0:31:02 > 0:31:05So, those couples who laughed more tended to report more support

0:31:05 > 0:31:08and also generally feeling closer to their partner.

0:31:11 > 0:31:14- I had my eye on somebody else at that time.- Oh, really?- Yes, I did.

0:31:14 > 0:31:15Oh, I didn't know that.

0:31:15 > 0:31:17HE LAUGHS

0:31:17 > 0:31:19So, the message is pretty clear.

0:31:19 > 0:31:23Folklore has it that laughter may well ignite romantic attachment...

0:31:24 > 0:31:27..but science says, if you want to make it past infatuation...

0:31:27 > 0:31:29SHE GIGGLES ..and enjoy a long and happy

0:31:29 > 0:31:32relationship, you better carry on laughing.

0:31:38 > 0:31:40That was an interesting film.

0:31:40 > 0:31:42Finally, what every couple watching at home wants to see -

0:31:42 > 0:31:45a scientific way of determining exactly how doomed

0:31:45 > 0:31:47their relationship is.

0:31:47 > 0:31:49Well done, science.

0:31:49 > 0:31:51So, do couples that laugh together really stay together?

0:31:51 > 0:31:54One of the important things that kind of comes out of that, actually,

0:31:54 > 0:31:58I think, is that laughing together actually ramps up

0:31:58 > 0:32:01the endorphin production in the brain,

0:32:01 > 0:32:03it actually doubles it, in effect.

0:32:03 > 0:32:05We don't understand why, we have no idea why,

0:32:05 > 0:32:09but it's almost as though the system is designed to give you this

0:32:09 > 0:32:12- sort of real boost.- To encourage you to laugh with other people?

0:32:12 > 0:32:14- Yeah, yeah.- Yeah, buy two tickets.

0:32:15 > 0:32:17So, its sort of functionality is it releases endorphins

0:32:17 > 0:32:20and that feels good, but also it's a form of communication

0:32:20 > 0:32:22- in and of itself?- Yeah, and it lets you, together,

0:32:22 > 0:32:25regulate your emotions, cos it only works if both of you do it.

0:32:25 > 0:32:27If one person's going, "Ha-ha, it was funny,"

0:32:27 > 0:32:29and the other person's going, "No, it was quite a serious problem,"

0:32:29 > 0:32:32they're not... It's not going to work.

0:32:32 > 0:32:34So, there's two different types of laughter -

0:32:34 > 0:32:35there's laughter you do when you hear a joke

0:32:35 > 0:32:37and there's social laughter,

0:32:37 > 0:32:39laughter that peppers our communications.

0:32:39 > 0:32:41There's real laughter, at stuff we find funny,

0:32:41 > 0:32:45and there's posed laughter, which serves a vital social function.

0:32:45 > 0:32:47Sophie, you've done work on this, right?

0:32:47 > 0:32:49Yes, we've been looking at it in quite a lot of detail,

0:32:49 > 0:32:51because it does seem to be, essentially,

0:32:51 > 0:32:54two entirely different kinds of laughter that we use.

0:32:54 > 0:32:58Posed laughter - that sounds like... Is that someone going, "Ha-ha...ha"?

0:32:58 > 0:33:00- Well, it could be. It's... - LAUGHTER

0:33:00 > 0:33:03It sounds really bad, sort of...

0:33:03 > 0:33:06It was like you bounced it straight back.

0:33:06 > 0:33:08- SHE LAUGHS That was real.- Yeah.

0:33:09 > 0:33:12It sounds awful to say, "Who would want fake laughter?

0:33:12 > 0:33:15"I don't want you putting that on," but actually most of the laughter

0:33:15 > 0:33:18you encounter in conversations is so well-coordinated

0:33:18 > 0:33:21with the conversation that you're having,

0:33:21 > 0:33:24that it has to be part of your voluntary communication system.

0:33:24 > 0:33:27If you look at people laughing when they're having conversational...

0:33:27 > 0:33:30and they're talking to each other, they don't laugh randomly,

0:33:30 > 0:33:32they laugh at the ends of sentences, and then you start again

0:33:32 > 0:33:34and maybe somebody else picks up or you carry on.

0:33:34 > 0:33:38OK, well, shall we play in some real and some posed laughter

0:33:38 > 0:33:40and see if people can differentiate?

0:33:40 > 0:33:42OK, so... Well, take it away, Sophie.

0:33:42 > 0:33:45OK, we've got somebody laughing here. They may look familiar.

0:33:50 > 0:33:51OK, what do you think, audience?

0:33:51 > 0:33:53- AUDIENCE:- Real.- Real.

0:33:53 > 0:33:56Does everyone think it's real? Does anyone think it's posed?

0:33:56 > 0:33:57Posed.

0:33:57 > 0:33:59Who thinks it's posed?

0:33:59 > 0:34:03And you're saying that only a psychopath would do that, yeah?

0:34:03 > 0:34:05And they need to be institutionalised now.

0:34:05 > 0:34:09We'd need more than N=1 for data, but it's a worrying start.

0:34:09 > 0:34:12I'm fairly certain that one's real cos I start crying when I laugh.

0:34:15 > 0:34:18TYPEWRITER PINGS

0:34:18 > 0:34:21OK, let's have an old-style typewriter write it in green.

0:34:22 > 0:34:24If that doesn't say Horizon, I don't know what...

0:34:24 > 0:34:25That's science, my friend.

0:34:25 > 0:34:29That's a real laugh. See if we can try another one.

0:34:33 > 0:34:35OK, so real or posed?

0:34:35 > 0:34:38- AUDIENCE:- Posed.- Posed. - And does anyone think it's real?

0:34:38 > 0:34:40Genuinely, if anyone thought... It's fine.

0:34:44 > 0:34:46I can see maybe someone does and then they're going,

0:34:46 > 0:34:48"I'd better not say."

0:34:52 > 0:34:55Posed laughs, they've got their own thing going on.

0:34:55 > 0:34:57They're not just weak versions of real laughs.

0:34:57 > 0:35:01So, you quite often get nasality, a kind of heh-heh-heh quality

0:35:01 > 0:35:05to posed laughter that you never, ever find in spontaneous laughter,

0:35:05 > 0:35:07in fact, you couldn't do that when you were laughing helplessly.

0:35:07 > 0:35:10It's like we're marking it, we're showing it for what it is.

0:35:10 > 0:35:12I'm giving you my laughter. I'm voluntarily giving you

0:35:12 > 0:35:13this laughter.

0:35:13 > 0:35:15So we're going out of our way, possibly,

0:35:15 > 0:35:18to actually show people that this is a voluntary behaviour.

0:35:18 > 0:35:22OK, so we humans are not the only mammals that laugh.

0:35:22 > 0:35:25Now, can any other animal fake laugh?

0:35:25 > 0:35:28In chimpanzees, you do seem to find something that looks like

0:35:28 > 0:35:30a difference between a spontaneous laugh and a posed laugh.

0:35:30 > 0:35:34So, chimps laugh differently if they are being tickled

0:35:34 > 0:35:37than if they're trying to make play last longer, so that's...

0:35:37 > 0:35:40What if they're filming something for PG Tips?

0:35:40 > 0:35:42Cos often they've heard those jokes before.

0:35:42 > 0:35:43They're being polite.

0:35:43 > 0:35:47Yeah, so can we demonstrate that humans are the only ones

0:35:47 > 0:35:49that really know how to pose laughter?

0:35:49 > 0:35:50We're going to try this.

0:35:50 > 0:35:52I think we have a volunteer over there.

0:35:52 > 0:35:54Yes, you're our volunteer, come up.

0:35:54 > 0:35:55- What's your name, sir?- Phil.

0:35:55 > 0:35:57- Hello, Phil, how are you? - I'm good, thank you.

0:35:57 > 0:36:02I believe we need you to regress maybe ten million years, is it?

0:36:02 > 0:36:03How far are we going back?

0:36:03 > 0:36:06We're sending him back to walk on all fours.

0:36:06 > 0:36:10I'll cede knowledge here to Robin, but we need a quadruped.

0:36:10 > 0:36:11Just here is fine. I don't know if you...

0:36:11 > 0:36:13Yeah, go ahead, dude.

0:36:14 > 0:36:17- There we go.- Ah, you left your dignity at the table.

0:36:17 > 0:36:19LAUGHTER

0:36:19 > 0:36:22"Yeah, Mum, it's great news, I'm going to be on Horizon, but..."

0:36:23 > 0:36:26As soon as you start having to do this,

0:36:26 > 0:36:28you're having to use your four limbs, like all other mammals,

0:36:28 > 0:36:31to support your weight, and that means you can't use them

0:36:31 > 0:36:34for all that fine stuff we're doing when we're using our voice

0:36:34 > 0:36:37voluntarily - we're talking, we're doing social laughter.

0:36:37 > 0:36:40So, this is a slightly strange way of demonstrating

0:36:40 > 0:36:43how weirdly dependent we are on actually the fact that we're walking

0:36:43 > 0:36:45upright for a lot of the stuff we can do with our voices.

0:36:45 > 0:36:48So, could you fake a laugh now in that position, is that...?

0:36:48 > 0:36:50HE LAUGHS AND SPLUTTERS

0:36:50 > 0:36:51AUDIENCE LAUGH

0:36:51 > 0:36:53No, not really.

0:36:53 > 0:36:54I mean, definitively not.

0:36:54 > 0:36:57And we need him there for the rest of the show.

0:36:58 > 0:37:01It's a shame, really. He was probably quite enjoying it.

0:37:02 > 0:37:05See, now... So you're saying the reason we can fake laughter

0:37:05 > 0:37:07- is cos we're bipeds...- Bipeds, yeah.- ..and if we had to walk on

0:37:07 > 0:37:09all fours, as this man has to... LAUGHTER

0:37:11 > 0:37:14Contractually obliged to walk like this for the rest of the show.

0:37:14 > 0:37:15I mean...

0:37:15 > 0:37:18Probably a kinder sort of host would've got you to stand up

0:37:18 > 0:37:20by now, but...

0:37:20 > 0:37:22Go on, you'd better stand up. Our volunteer, everyone.

0:37:22 > 0:37:25Thank you very much. Great demonstration. It worked.

0:37:29 > 0:37:31So that kind of tightness in speech

0:37:31 > 0:37:34and the idea that you couldn't really sort of relax and pose

0:37:34 > 0:37:37and enjoy it as much if you're kind of, yeah.

0:37:37 > 0:37:39Absolutely. I mean, if you stress it even more, if you've got...

0:37:39 > 0:37:42you know, you try and take all your weight onto your arms,

0:37:42 > 0:37:45like doing pull-ups, then you just can't talk, you can't laugh,

0:37:45 > 0:37:46you can't do anything.

0:37:46 > 0:37:49So, I believe we have some brain scans of real and posed laughter.

0:37:49 > 0:37:52- We do.- Let's have a look at some brain scans, everyone.

0:37:53 > 0:37:56So, what we did here is we played people some sounds

0:37:56 > 0:37:58and buried in there we had real laughs and posed laughs.

0:37:58 > 0:38:01We didn't tell people anything about what they were going to hear,

0:38:01 > 0:38:03and we didn't tell them anything about laughter,

0:38:03 > 0:38:05and what we found is that the brain still cares.

0:38:05 > 0:38:08You get different patterns of activation when you hear real laughs

0:38:08 > 0:38:12versus posed laughs. So, for example, these regions here in blue,

0:38:12 > 0:38:15they're showing you areas of activation in the auditory cortices,

0:38:15 > 0:38:17just here above your ears,

0:38:17 > 0:38:19and that is greater for the real laughs

0:38:19 > 0:38:21than the posed laughs, significantly greater.

0:38:21 > 0:38:24And what that seems to be because is when you hear real laughter,

0:38:24 > 0:38:27you hear all these sounds you do not hear in any other context.

0:38:27 > 0:38:29It's completely sort of unambiguous.

0:38:29 > 0:38:33In contrast, we all see all these regions in pink,

0:38:33 > 0:38:36which are significantly more active to the posed laughter,

0:38:36 > 0:38:38and this is a bit surprising to us, cos we were expecting the brain

0:38:38 > 0:38:41to care very much about posed laughter as it's a bit, you know,

0:38:41 > 0:38:43it's not spontaneous, it's not real,

0:38:43 > 0:38:46but in fact it gives you more activation.

0:38:46 > 0:38:48And the activation it's giving you is not in auditory parts

0:38:48 > 0:38:51of the brain, it's in the parts of the brain you would expect to find

0:38:51 > 0:38:53if you were to sit down and deliberately think about

0:38:53 > 0:38:56what somebody else is thinking. So, I think what this speaks to

0:38:56 > 0:38:58is the fact that when you hear somebody producing

0:38:58 > 0:39:01a clearly posed laugh - a-ha-ha-ha -

0:39:01 > 0:39:04there is some reason why that human being has produced that behaviour

0:39:04 > 0:39:06and you are trying to work it out.

0:39:06 > 0:39:08Are they laughing cos they're in pain? Cos they're embarrassed?

0:39:08 > 0:39:11Cos they like you? Cos they want you to like them?

0:39:11 > 0:39:12There's a reason why they're doing it

0:39:12 > 0:39:14and that's why you're dwelling on it,

0:39:14 > 0:39:16even if you're having your brain scanned and it sounds like

0:39:16 > 0:39:18it's got nothing to do with you.

0:39:18 > 0:39:20It's such an important social signal.

0:39:20 > 0:39:22So, what happens if someone doesn't have the ability

0:39:22 > 0:39:23to tell the difference?

0:39:23 > 0:39:25Well, this is a very interesting question

0:39:25 > 0:39:27that we're trying to go into at the moment.

0:39:27 > 0:39:30So we've been doing some work, looking at how laughter is perceived

0:39:30 > 0:39:32by people with different kinds of problems.

0:39:32 > 0:39:35We've done some work in collaboration with colleagues at UCL

0:39:35 > 0:39:38looking at teenagers who have conduct disorders,

0:39:38 > 0:39:41and what you find is that, although the can behaviourally

0:39:41 > 0:39:44tell the difference between real and posed laughter,

0:39:44 > 0:39:46what they can't do, what they don't seem to do,

0:39:46 > 0:39:48is to show this contagion.

0:39:48 > 0:39:50They don't show this behavioural reaction,

0:39:50 > 0:39:52so they don't want to join in when they hear the laughter

0:39:52 > 0:39:55and their brains respond differently to the laughter.

0:39:55 > 0:39:58So there does seem to be something genuinely different happening

0:39:58 > 0:40:00when people process laughter

0:40:00 > 0:40:03who are at risk of having more serious problems,

0:40:03 > 0:40:05in terms of their social interactions.

0:40:05 > 0:40:06Wow, interesting.

0:40:06 > 0:40:09OK, so we've found out what laughter is

0:40:09 > 0:40:10and we know why we enjoy doing it.

0:40:10 > 0:40:14Final question - why do we laugh when we find things funny?

0:40:14 > 0:40:17Well, if only someone had a grand, unifying theory of comedy.

0:40:17 > 0:40:18Bit of luck - they do.

0:40:25 > 0:40:27Nestling beneath America's mighty Rocky Mountains

0:40:27 > 0:40:30is the University of Colorado at Boulder.

0:40:37 > 0:40:40One of its many architecturally unambitious buildings contains a man

0:40:40 > 0:40:44who claims to have discovered why we find things funny.

0:40:45 > 0:40:48His name is Professor Peter McGraw.

0:40:49 > 0:40:52We're at the University of Colorado, Boulder, at the lead school

0:40:52 > 0:40:55and we're headed to the human research lab

0:40:55 > 0:40:59which we affectionately refer to as HuRL.

0:40:59 > 0:41:02Unfortunately, even the science of humour

0:41:02 > 0:41:04has a kind of boring backdrop.

0:41:04 > 0:41:06I wish I could tell you that in a room over here

0:41:06 > 0:41:10we had a whole bunch of rubber chickens and whoopee cushions

0:41:10 > 0:41:12that we need to just pull out for our studies.

0:41:15 > 0:41:19Yet, despite, or maybe because of, this anodyne beige interior,

0:41:19 > 0:41:22it's here that Professor McGraw has devised

0:41:22 > 0:41:25his grand, unified theory of comedy.

0:41:25 > 0:41:29Humour deconstructed, laid bare and explained.

0:41:32 > 0:41:35So, most things in the world are OK.

0:41:36 > 0:41:37They're benign.

0:41:39 > 0:41:41They're not funny.

0:41:41 > 0:41:44And then, of course, there's a certain set of things in the world,

0:41:44 > 0:41:46you know, whether it be...

0:41:47 > 0:41:50..bad traffic or an annoying co-worker...

0:41:53 > 0:41:54..a tragedy...

0:41:56 > 0:41:57..that's a violation.

0:41:59 > 0:42:03This creates a boring reaction, this creates a negative reaction.

0:42:03 > 0:42:06But when you bring these two appraisals together

0:42:06 > 0:42:09and you create a benign violation,

0:42:09 > 0:42:14this sort of sweet spot that sits between being bored

0:42:14 > 0:42:16and being offended,

0:42:16 > 0:42:22and you have this moment of levity, this uplifting feeling of amusement,

0:42:22 > 0:42:23you say, "Hey, that's funny,"

0:42:23 > 0:42:25and then you laugh to communicate to others

0:42:25 > 0:42:28that this violation is actually benign.

0:42:33 > 0:42:35Word of the theory's power has spread.

0:42:37 > 0:42:40Local comedian Nathan Lund is keen to see

0:42:40 > 0:42:42if benign violation theory can rescue one of his jokes

0:42:42 > 0:42:45that even he thinks might be too offensive.

0:42:48 > 0:42:51- What's the joke? - Saying that I've been working on

0:42:51 > 0:42:54a type of clear mayonnaise

0:42:54 > 0:42:56called I Can't believe It's Not Cum, but...

0:42:56 > 0:42:58But that's...

0:42:58 > 0:43:01- That's kind of a violation... - That goes too far.

0:43:01 > 0:43:04- Yeah, that one goes too far, right? - It might.- I don't know yet.

0:43:04 > 0:43:05- People...- When it gets that "Uuggh."

0:43:05 > 0:43:09I also wonder if it's just too much, like, to go from,

0:43:09 > 0:43:12you know, clear mustard, that's pretty harmless,

0:43:12 > 0:43:14and then all of a sudden I'm bringing up...

0:43:14 > 0:43:15You know.

0:43:17 > 0:43:20After much debate, Professor McGraw and Nathan Lund come up with

0:43:20 > 0:43:23a solution they hope moves the joke away from violation

0:43:23 > 0:43:25just far enough to be funny.

0:43:30 > 0:43:31Happy to have him here.

0:43:31 > 0:43:33Please give a nice Boulder Comedy Show welcome

0:43:33 > 0:43:35to Nathan Lund, everybody.

0:43:37 > 0:43:40Now it's crunch time for clear mayonnaise,

0:43:40 > 0:43:43for Nathan and for benign violation theory.

0:43:43 > 0:43:46I don't have a lot of money, I'm hoping to make some money this year

0:43:46 > 0:43:48with a new product I have coming out.

0:43:48 > 0:43:50Clear mustard is what I've invented.

0:43:50 > 0:43:52I'm calling it Ham Sanitizer.

0:43:52 > 0:43:53LAUGHTER

0:43:53 > 0:43:58So, if you see Ham Sanitizer in stores, that's me, give it a shot.

0:44:00 > 0:44:04But I'm also working on a follow-up condiment - clear mayonnaise,

0:44:04 > 0:44:07which I'm calling I Can't believe It's Not Semen.

0:44:07 > 0:44:09- LAUGHTER - So, if you see...

0:44:09 > 0:44:14If you see that, that means people have been buying Ham Sanitizer,

0:44:14 > 0:44:18if I can follow it up with more clear condiments.

0:44:18 > 0:44:21So, do I have to explain all forms of comedy

0:44:21 > 0:44:23for this theory to be right?

0:44:23 > 0:44:24No.

0:44:24 > 0:44:27I just have to be able to explain comedy better

0:44:27 > 0:44:29than the other humour theories.

0:44:29 > 0:44:31And so, in many ways, it's kind of a horse race

0:44:31 > 0:44:33and I think I have a pretty fast horse.

0:44:33 > 0:44:36APPLAUSE

0:44:36 > 0:44:39Well, freshly arrived from Colorado in a matter transporter

0:44:39 > 0:44:42that we'll be looking at in next week's Horizon,

0:44:42 > 0:44:45ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Professor Peter McGraw.

0:44:45 > 0:44:47APPLAUSE

0:44:49 > 0:44:51Thank you for coming.

0:44:51 > 0:44:52Come in, take a seat.

0:44:52 > 0:44:54So, you think you have a pretty fast horse,

0:44:54 > 0:44:56you think your theory is pretty good on comedy.

0:44:56 > 0:45:01I mean, there's not a lot of good competition, so...

0:45:01 > 0:45:04Well, there's three main theories on comedy,

0:45:04 > 0:45:07- so let's go through those first. - Sure, sure.

0:45:07 > 0:45:11So, these are, these theories go back 2,500 years

0:45:11 > 0:45:12to Plato and Aristotle.

0:45:12 > 0:45:14So, Robin will remember some of them.

0:45:14 > 0:45:17LAUGHTER

0:45:17 > 0:45:19Go on. So, the first theory...

0:45:19 > 0:45:21..is superiority theory.

0:45:21 > 0:45:25And this is the notion that comedy is a game -

0:45:25 > 0:45:27there's a winner, there's a loser -

0:45:27 > 0:45:29and we laugh at other people's follies.

0:45:29 > 0:45:32- OK, excellent, so that's the first theory.- First theory.- Superiority.

0:45:32 > 0:45:35And then there's release theory or relief theory.

0:45:35 > 0:45:39Er, Freud gets a lot of the credit for this.

0:45:39 > 0:45:44And the notion is that we laugh at things that kind of release

0:45:44 > 0:45:47these sort of sexual and aggressive tendencies

0:45:47 > 0:45:48that we sort of hide away,

0:45:48 > 0:45:52that are part of our personality that are not supposed to come out,

0:45:52 > 0:45:56and so comedy is a safe way for these things to come out.

0:45:56 > 0:45:57OK, and the third theory?

0:45:57 > 0:45:59Is incongruity theory.

0:45:59 > 0:46:02- Which is the big...- It's the big one, it's the 800 pound gorilla.

0:46:02 > 0:46:05It's the one that people sort of spontaneously come up with

0:46:05 > 0:46:07when you ask them what makes things funny,

0:46:07 > 0:46:10and it takes various forms but the most common

0:46:10 > 0:46:13is sort of a mismatch of expectations and reality.

0:46:13 > 0:46:16So you expect one thing and you get something else,

0:46:16 > 0:46:18and that is supposed to be delighting.

0:46:18 > 0:46:20OK, so those are the three main theories in comedy,

0:46:20 > 0:46:22and had been for a very long time.

0:46:22 > 0:46:24- Yes.- No-one's really given it much thought beyond that.

0:46:24 > 0:46:27So your theory is, again, benign violation.

0:46:27 > 0:46:28That's right, yeah.

0:46:28 > 0:46:32So, the theory takes into account that many of the things

0:46:32 > 0:46:34that we laugh at kind of have a dark side,

0:46:34 > 0:46:37so that's acknowledged in superiority theory,

0:46:37 > 0:46:38it's acknowledged in relief theory.

0:46:38 > 0:46:42That is that there's something wrong, there's something amiss,

0:46:42 > 0:46:44there's something threatening about that situation.

0:46:44 > 0:46:47But of course the things that are wrong or amiss and threatening,

0:46:47 > 0:46:49they don't make us laugh, they make us cry,

0:46:49 > 0:46:52they disgust us, they offend us.

0:46:52 > 0:46:55And so you have this negative arousal

0:46:55 > 0:46:57that comes from that dark side,

0:46:57 > 0:47:00and then it flips and then you delight

0:47:00 > 0:47:03and you have this positively arousing feeling, and then...

0:47:03 > 0:47:07I like to believe that laughter is that signal that this situation

0:47:07 > 0:47:09that seems wrong is actually OK.

0:47:09 > 0:47:11I mean, the thing I love about your theory

0:47:11 > 0:47:14is the idea that everyone has a different Venn diagram.

0:47:14 > 0:47:16- Yes.- Everyone's drawn it very differently.

0:47:16 > 0:47:17So something that I might find...

0:47:17 > 0:47:19I might say, "Well, that isn't a violation to me,

0:47:19 > 0:47:21"I'm happy to laugh about that,"

0:47:21 > 0:47:23someone else might go, "Not on the BBC, thank you."

0:47:23 > 0:47:26And someone else might go, "You gotta give me more."

0:47:26 > 0:47:29The things that are wrong, and the things that are OK in the world

0:47:29 > 0:47:31change over time.

0:47:31 > 0:47:34So you listen back to old comedy

0:47:34 > 0:47:38and sometimes it's horribly offensive and bigoted now,

0:47:38 > 0:47:39from our perspective,

0:47:39 > 0:47:42and sometimes it's totally boring and confusing,

0:47:42 > 0:47:44and it's because the world has changed.

0:47:44 > 0:47:47And so, in many ways,

0:47:47 > 0:47:52good comedy really reflects the values of a society

0:47:52 > 0:47:55and the moral norms and the beliefs in a society,

0:47:55 > 0:47:57and those are constantly in flux.

0:47:57 > 0:47:59So, it's not just the individuals that move

0:47:59 > 0:48:01those kind of Venn diagrams of, you know, where that line is,

0:48:01 > 0:48:03it's a society as a whole that moves them

0:48:03 > 0:48:06and different nations have them in different places as well, yeah.

0:48:06 > 0:48:08Yes. Every so often you find something that lasts.

0:48:08 > 0:48:10I mean, it still won't last forever,

0:48:10 > 0:48:14but my son is very keen on listening to

0:48:14 > 0:48:16very old Tony Hancock radio programmes,

0:48:16 > 0:48:18and it's surprising how much of that has lasted,

0:48:18 > 0:48:21probably because it was hugely influential.

0:48:21 > 0:48:24It was basically you could draw a line straight from that to Seinfeld,

0:48:24 > 0:48:27and it's quite interesting how every so often you run across something

0:48:27 > 0:48:29that's almost jarringly out of place.

0:48:29 > 0:48:31It's very interesting, from my perspective,

0:48:31 > 0:48:32the kind of comedy that I do,

0:48:32 > 0:48:36the idea that no-one's ever laughed at an offensive joke,

0:48:36 > 0:48:39because, by dint of laughing, they're saying that,

0:48:39 > 0:48:41"No, this isn't a violation to me, this is all fine."

0:48:41 > 0:48:43- Mm-hmm.- We can laugh about anything.

0:48:43 > 0:48:45It's not that it's completely fine, right?

0:48:45 > 0:48:49That's the thing that's so difficult about it all.

0:48:49 > 0:48:51The things that are completely fine

0:48:51 > 0:48:55is like you listening to me, not very funny.

0:48:55 > 0:48:59Right? And so, there has to be something edgy that plays that role.

0:48:59 > 0:49:02- This guy.- This guy right here. - I think... I really like the theory.

0:49:02 > 0:49:04I mean, I really feel like it makes sense to me

0:49:04 > 0:49:05in a way that the others don't.

0:49:05 > 0:49:09But I'd be very interested to know what Sophie and Robin make of this.

0:49:09 > 0:49:10No pressure.

0:49:10 > 0:49:13Well, I was going to say, actually, this is kind of interesting because,

0:49:13 > 0:49:17if you look at the origins of laughter as we have it in humans,

0:49:17 > 0:49:20it actually comes from the play vocalisation in monkeys and apes,

0:49:20 > 0:49:26and what that basically is is a comment on what I'm doing now.

0:49:26 > 0:49:28When I bite you, don't take it seriously.

0:49:28 > 0:49:30So, it's doing exactly this,

0:49:30 > 0:49:33it's just saying, "Look, it may look aggressive, but actually it's not."

0:49:33 > 0:49:36And I think it's... The thing I find interesting,

0:49:36 > 0:49:37and you mentioned it in the film,

0:49:37 > 0:49:40is that people are kind of appraising the situation,

0:49:40 > 0:49:42they're coming to a decision about it.

0:49:42 > 0:49:44And there is some very interesting data

0:49:44 > 0:49:47showing that people will rate jokes as being funnier

0:49:47 > 0:49:49if they think they've been told by a comedian

0:49:49 > 0:49:53than if they think they've been told by somebody who's famous but not...

0:49:53 > 0:49:54does not have that role.

0:49:54 > 0:49:57So, if somebody thinks a joke's been told by Jimmy Carr,

0:49:57 > 0:49:59they'll rate it as more amusing

0:49:59 > 0:50:01than if they think it's been told by Jamie Oliver,

0:50:01 > 0:50:04and that does suggest that people aren't just...

0:50:04 > 0:50:08Their appraisal is including the person who is producing it.

0:50:08 > 0:50:11And I think that kind of might speak in, socially,

0:50:11 > 0:50:14to the kind of the people who you will and won't let make you laugh.

0:50:14 > 0:50:17You know, you are going to laugh more with people you know and like,

0:50:17 > 0:50:20and you may read their intentions as being more benign.

0:50:20 > 0:50:22I think that's very true of political correctness as well,

0:50:22 > 0:50:26cos I often get called out for saying, "Oh, you're not very politically correct,"

0:50:26 > 0:50:27but I always think I am within context.

0:50:27 > 0:50:30Onstage, in front of 1,000 people, telling jokes,

0:50:30 > 0:50:32political correctness doesn't really belong in that space for me.

0:50:32 > 0:50:35So, as soon as whenever you get called out by the press

0:50:35 > 0:50:37as a comedian and they say, "Ban this filth,"

0:50:37 > 0:50:39it tends to be that they've taken it from a comedy show,

0:50:39 > 0:50:41put it on the front of the Daily Mail

0:50:41 > 0:50:42and gone, "This is disgraceful!"

0:50:42 > 0:50:45Well, you shouldn't have printed it, then.

0:50:45 > 0:50:47OK, how about some good news?

0:50:47 > 0:50:48Take a look.

0:50:54 > 0:50:56When this man started his career,

0:50:56 > 0:50:58his ideas were considered

0:50:58 > 0:51:01even more avant-garde than the buildings he now inhabits.

0:51:03 > 0:51:06Today, however, he's established a global reputation

0:51:06 > 0:51:09as one of the world's leading neurobiologists.

0:51:14 > 0:51:19And all because he discovered he could hear rats squeak.

0:51:19 > 0:51:21RATS SQUEAK

0:51:26 > 0:51:30You're hearing the squeaking through the ultrasound detector.

0:51:30 > 0:51:32If we didn't have these detectors on,

0:51:32 > 0:51:34you would not be hearing anything.

0:51:35 > 0:51:37Once he'd heard the squeaks,

0:51:37 > 0:51:41Panksepp was determined to discover what they might mean.

0:51:42 > 0:51:44One morning I woke up and said,

0:51:44 > 0:51:46"What if that is laughter?

0:51:46 > 0:51:50And I said, "Well, then you should be able to tickle animals."

0:51:50 > 0:51:55And we tickled the first rat, and it chirped like crazy.

0:51:55 > 0:51:56The second rat...

0:51:56 > 0:51:57As a matter of fact,

0:51:57 > 0:52:03every rat except some really neurotic ones have chirped.

0:52:08 > 0:52:09To the casual observer,

0:52:09 > 0:52:12it might look like the rats aren't laughing at all,

0:52:12 > 0:52:14that their tiny chirps are in fact cries for help.

0:52:18 > 0:52:21But not only are the vocalisations identical

0:52:21 > 0:52:23to the noises made in play,

0:52:23 > 0:52:25the rats' behaviour tells its own story.

0:52:28 > 0:52:30They are following my hand

0:52:30 > 0:52:33because it's a hand that has brought them great joy.

0:52:33 > 0:52:35HE CHUCKLES

0:52:35 > 0:52:37Oh, he just bit me.

0:52:37 > 0:52:40- HE LAUGHS - But he didn't hurt me.

0:52:40 > 0:52:44So that's their way of indicating, "Come on, let's play." Ooh!

0:52:44 > 0:52:46- I love rats. - HE LAUGHS

0:52:46 > 0:52:51They're such fun animals, so smart and so emotional.

0:52:52 > 0:52:57As far as we can tell, we've got the same basic emotions as rats.

0:53:01 > 0:53:04But Panksepp's idea, that rats have emotions,

0:53:04 > 0:53:07did little to endear him to his colleagues.

0:53:08 > 0:53:11People say you've been giving human qualities to animals -

0:53:11 > 0:53:12anthropomorphism -

0:53:12 > 0:53:16and I tell them I have not been doing anything of the sort.

0:53:16 > 0:53:18I am doing zoomorphism.

0:53:18 > 0:53:21I am trying to understand the animal mind

0:53:21 > 0:53:25as a way to illuminate the human mind.

0:53:27 > 0:53:30The critics argue that our complex brains are so different

0:53:30 > 0:53:33to rats' brains that any comparison is meaningless.

0:53:34 > 0:53:40But the reality is emotions occur in the evolutionary ancient brain,

0:53:40 > 0:53:43the part we share with all mammals, including rats.

0:53:44 > 0:53:48And we know that animals that have been bred for high laughter

0:53:48 > 0:53:50are resistant to depression.

0:53:50 > 0:53:53That means they have chemistries that protect them

0:53:53 > 0:53:56against the vicissitudes of life.

0:53:57 > 0:54:00Animals that have been bred for lower laughter

0:54:00 > 0:54:02are susceptible to depression.

0:54:05 > 0:54:08If we understand animal emotional processes

0:54:08 > 0:54:11at the fundamental instinctual level,

0:54:11 > 0:54:15I think we will have a science of human basic emotions,

0:54:15 > 0:54:19and that's very valuable for understanding ourselves

0:54:19 > 0:54:22and having a more sophisticated biological psychiatry.

0:54:24 > 0:54:27Panksepp's idea was to use the rats' laughter to identify

0:54:27 > 0:54:31the precise area in the ancient brain involved in happiness,

0:54:31 > 0:54:35and in so doing to identify the neurochemistry responsible.

0:54:37 > 0:54:40Using that approach, a group from Northwestern University in Chicago

0:54:40 > 0:54:43identified a happiness neurotransmitter.

0:54:43 > 0:54:45They call it GLX-13.

0:54:45 > 0:54:47Catchy.

0:54:47 > 0:54:50And they've also developed a drug to stimulate its production.

0:54:50 > 0:54:54In 2013, they started human clinical trials.

0:54:54 > 0:54:56The results were so impressive,

0:54:56 > 0:55:02that two years later it was bought by a drugs company for 560 million.

0:55:03 > 0:55:05Surprising as it is,

0:55:05 > 0:55:09£560 million is not bad for buying the rights

0:55:09 > 0:55:12to the most powerful item on the horizon.

0:55:16 > 0:55:18It's a new way of treating depression -

0:55:18 > 0:55:21an antidepressant that, instead of reducing sadness,

0:55:21 > 0:55:23promotes happiness.

0:55:23 > 0:55:26It's an approach that shows great promise,

0:55:26 > 0:55:28and all this from tickling rats.

0:55:30 > 0:55:35Rat laughter forces you to think about the molecules of social joy,

0:55:35 > 0:55:42so, you know, I am pleased and surprised in retrospect

0:55:42 > 0:55:45that we got that far.

0:55:45 > 0:55:49And, you know, it's one of the wonderful things of science -

0:55:49 > 0:55:51there's always surprises.

0:55:57 > 0:55:59So, that's me out of a job.

0:55:59 > 0:56:01Comedy in pill form - I suppose it had to happen sometime.

0:56:01 > 0:56:03We had a good run. LAUGHTER

0:56:03 > 0:56:05So, back to our questions - what is laughter?

0:56:05 > 0:56:08Why do we laugh? And what has it got to do with comedy?

0:56:08 > 0:56:10- I think we've answered it, haven't we?- Yeah.

0:56:10 > 0:56:11Laughter's a social emotion.

0:56:11 > 0:56:13Social activity,

0:56:13 > 0:56:16pre-language vocalisation.

0:56:16 > 0:56:18OK. Why do we laugh?

0:56:18 > 0:56:23Originally it really is designed to allow us to bond with each other,

0:56:23 > 0:56:25but actually the endorphins that trigger out

0:56:25 > 0:56:27in effect tune the immune system.

0:56:27 > 0:56:29So they actually do make you healthier.

0:56:29 > 0:56:31But it's very ancient, it is,

0:56:31 > 0:56:32I mean, it predates language

0:56:32 > 0:56:35probably by about a million and a half years, I would say.

0:56:35 > 0:56:38Wow. OK. And what's it got to do with comedy?

0:56:38 > 0:56:40Well, comedy fundamentally is about pointing out

0:56:40 > 0:56:42what's wrong with the world

0:56:42 > 0:56:44and doing it in a way that is acceptable to the audience,

0:56:44 > 0:56:48so creating benign violations and delighting others.

0:56:48 > 0:56:51Here's a question for all three of you.

0:56:51 > 0:56:55Could it be said that laughter makes us human?

0:56:55 > 0:56:56No.

0:56:56 > 0:56:58- I would say so.- I don't think so.

0:56:58 > 0:57:01- It's just too... - OK, so Robin's my favourite.

0:57:01 > 0:57:03- LAUGHTER - I get the free tickets to his shows.

0:57:03 > 0:57:05I'd like to thank Robin and the other two guests... Meh.

0:57:05 > 0:57:07So, you think it...?

0:57:07 > 0:57:12Well, in the sense that it does mark a key boundary point

0:57:12 > 0:57:15from which everything else spins.

0:57:15 > 0:57:19And of course the big thing about laughter is this breath control

0:57:19 > 0:57:22and all this sort of control of the musculature,

0:57:22 > 0:57:24the intercostal muscles in the chest wall,

0:57:24 > 0:57:27and without that, language couldn't have evolved.

0:57:27 > 0:57:30I mean, we've literally nailed this episode of Horizon.

0:57:30 > 0:57:32LAUGHTER I'd like to thank our guests -

0:57:32 > 0:57:34Sophie Scott, Robin Dunbar and Peter McGraw,

0:57:34 > 0:57:36and thank you all for laughing.

0:57:36 > 0:57:38APPLAUSE