0:00:02 > 0:00:06This programme contains some strong language
0:00:06 > 0:00:12There are currently around 5,000 professional footballers in Britain.
0:00:12 > 0:00:18But incredibly, not a single one of them has come out publicly as gay.
0:00:18 > 0:00:22In fact, there has only ever been one openly gay footballer
0:00:22 > 0:00:26in the whole history of the British game.
0:00:26 > 0:00:30His name was Justin Fashanu and he was a true pioneer.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33COMMENTATOR: Fashanu... Oh, what a goal!
0:00:33 > 0:00:35Oh, that's a magnificent goal.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40My name is Amal Fashanu and I'm proud to say
0:00:40 > 0:00:44he was my uncle before he tragically committed suicide.
0:00:44 > 0:00:49Justin Fashanu has been found dead in a garage in East London.
0:00:49 > 0:00:5214 years since death, it saddens me
0:00:52 > 0:00:54that no footballer has ever followed in Justin's boots.
0:00:54 > 0:00:58He was desperate for his coming out to pave the way
0:00:58 > 0:01:01for future gay players to be accepted in the game.
0:01:01 > 0:01:06Doors are not being opened because of the sexuality and I don't think that's right.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09So, I went on a mission to uncover why no gay footballer in Britain
0:01:09 > 0:01:13has come forward publicly since my uncle.
0:01:13 > 0:01:18These archaic figures think if they had a gay footballer, there'd be,
0:01:18 > 0:01:22all kinds of shenanigans going on in the dressing room.
0:01:22 > 0:01:24I think there's more chance of the next Pope being black
0:01:24 > 0:01:27than you finding a footballer who will come out.
0:01:27 > 0:01:29Do you know of any gay professionals?
0:01:29 > 0:01:33There have been half a dozen that I know are either gay or bisexual.
0:01:33 > 0:01:37But I didn't realise this would also expose me
0:01:37 > 0:01:40to some dark secrets, very close to home.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43SHE SOBS
0:01:43 > 0:01:47It's destroyed my family. It's really destroyed my family.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56DISTANT CHEERING
0:02:06 > 0:02:09I wanted to give you a very edgy, punk look.
0:02:09 > 0:02:11So the first one is all black with this?
0:02:11 > 0:02:14'I'm Amal Fashanu and I'm 23 years old.
0:02:14 > 0:02:18'Since leaving university, I've begun a career in fashion.'
0:02:18 > 0:02:23# On the runway Dressed in his best
0:02:23 > 0:02:24# On the fashion
0:02:24 > 0:02:28# On the runway, work it... #
0:02:28 > 0:02:32Unlike football, it's an industry with many openly gay people.
0:02:32 > 0:02:35# I'm new compassion... #
0:02:35 > 0:02:37I love that position, but give it more...
0:02:37 > 0:02:42- That's it.- It's too much.
0:02:42 > 0:02:43This is too much.
0:02:43 > 0:02:48'I discussed my task ahead with colleagues.'
0:02:48 > 0:02:52What do you guys think? Do you think there are gay footballers?
0:02:52 > 0:02:55I think that gays are part of every society,
0:02:55 > 0:02:58whichever walks of life you may come from,
0:02:58 > 0:03:02from music to fashion to football, to professional lives, they're everywhere.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06So how come in a team of 25 or however many,
0:03:06 > 0:03:08there's no gay players?
0:03:08 > 0:03:10I say football is the gayest sport on earth.
0:03:10 > 0:03:14- It's what, a bunch of 22 guys chasing the ball?- It is!
0:03:14 > 0:03:18- And another 60,000 men jumping on top of each other.- It's true.
0:03:18 > 0:03:19How gay could you get?
0:03:19 > 0:03:23I can see a footballer standing up and openly coming out and admitting he's gay.
0:03:23 > 0:03:26I can see it happening, because times are changing.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35'There was only place to begin.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38'With my Dad, John Fashanu, who was Justin's brother.'
0:03:38 > 0:03:41We're on our way to see my Dad John
0:03:41 > 0:03:45and I'm hoping that he'll be able
0:03:45 > 0:03:49to answer my question of why there isn't any openly gay footballers
0:03:49 > 0:03:54at the moment, or have ever been, apart from my uncle Justin.
0:03:54 > 0:03:59I think it's a good starting point because he was a footballer at that time.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01COMMENTATOR: Fashanu has turned away...
0:04:01 > 0:04:04Fashanu, for Wimbledon!
0:04:04 > 0:04:06'Known as Fash the Bash...
0:04:08 > 0:04:12'..my Dad used to play for Wimbledon's legendary "Crazy Gang".
0:04:14 > 0:04:19'They were famous for their wild antics, both on and off the pitch.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25'He later became a high profile TV presenter.'
0:04:28 > 0:04:30'These days, he works in Nigeria,
0:04:30 > 0:04:34'so I've caught him on a flying visit to London.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37- You're looking good.- Thank you.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39So what's new, what's happening?
0:04:39 > 0:04:41So I've been trying to find out
0:04:41 > 0:04:44why there are no openly gay players in England.
0:04:44 > 0:04:45Are there gay players?
0:04:45 > 0:04:48I mean, if there's homosexuals,
0:04:48 > 0:04:53gays, in the world, it would be very unusual if they weren't in football.
0:04:53 > 0:04:59It's not that they're not, it's just that they don't want to come out. That's just the truth of it.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02Well, why do you think it is that they don't want to come out?
0:05:02 > 0:05:07Well, if you look at the history of your uncle, Justin,
0:05:07 > 0:05:11his coming out wasn't favourable.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14I don't think in two decades of football,
0:05:14 > 0:05:20I have ever witnessed the abuse your uncle received,
0:05:20 > 0:05:25from all sections of the stadium.
0:05:26 > 0:05:30Just remember, Justin was one of the first black
0:05:30 > 0:05:33£1 million players. You know?
0:05:35 > 0:05:40Being black alone was a challenge.
0:05:40 > 0:05:41That in itself was a challenge.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45So being black and gay must have made it way worse?
0:05:45 > 0:05:49Being gay is a different ball game completely.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51That's a different level.
0:05:53 > 0:05:57Remember, this is a macho men's game.
0:05:57 > 0:06:03The game of football is the bully boys, the bulldog,
0:06:03 > 0:06:06slide tackle in a wet day,
0:06:06 > 0:06:08mud all over your face, a few cuts.
0:06:08 > 0:06:12It was never for two men
0:06:12 > 0:06:17to do a slide tackle and then go back and kiss each other.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20That was not what we believed and we were brought up on.
0:06:20 > 0:06:22So, Dad, now that kind of leaves me
0:06:22 > 0:06:25thinking, like, realistically, what chances do I have
0:06:25 > 0:06:29of actually finding an openly... you know, a gay player who's going
0:06:29 > 0:06:34to come speak to me or, you know, in the next year going to come out?
0:06:34 > 0:06:39Well, I think there's more chance of the next Pope being black
0:06:39 > 0:06:43than you finding a footballer who will come out and say he's gay.
0:06:43 > 0:06:50Even straight players will not talk about gay players.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53Or gay society. It's going to be a challenge.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58- OK, darling.- Thank you so much for the dinner, Dad.
0:06:58 > 0:07:00- OK.- Thank you. - You pay next time.
0:07:00 > 0:07:02Thanks, thanks for that one!
0:07:05 > 0:07:09I know that obviously society has changed since my dad was young
0:07:09 > 0:07:12and I would like to believe that football's changed,
0:07:12 > 0:07:16but from what my dad says, it seems like football's stuck
0:07:16 > 0:07:18in that mentality of 50 years ago.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21But, generally, I would find it very sad
0:07:21 > 0:07:25if not one straight player would want to speak about the issue.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32'So I spent several days chasing interviews with current players...'
0:07:32 > 0:07:35Hi. I'm Amal Fashanu...
0:07:35 > 0:07:38'.about why they have no openly gay colleagues.'
0:07:38 > 0:07:40I'm making a documentary. Are you interested in an interview?
0:07:40 > 0:07:42..Your views as to what you think...
0:07:42 > 0:07:45..questions as to why there are no openly gay footballers?
0:07:45 > 0:07:47You know, do you know any gay footballers?
0:07:47 > 0:07:50..If one of your team members was gay?
0:07:50 > 0:07:54Would he be interested in doing an interview? Any chance of an interview?
0:07:57 > 0:08:03I've been trying to call and email loads and loads of footballers
0:08:03 > 0:08:05and Premiership clubs.
0:08:05 > 0:08:12You know, people like Rio Ferdinand, Joe Hart, Theo Walcott, John Terry.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16And it seems that either they don't want to do an interview
0:08:16 > 0:08:17or they're just too busy.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20I don't know, you know, it's disappointing.
0:08:26 > 0:08:32Maybe what my dad had said about homophobic abuse at football grounds was still all-important.
0:08:36 > 0:08:37To what extent were the fans
0:08:37 > 0:08:41not only preventing gay players from being open,
0:08:41 > 0:08:45but also discouraging straight players from even talking about the subject?
0:08:50 > 0:08:53I decided to find out for myself
0:08:53 > 0:08:58by going to watch Brighton and Hove Albion play Leeds United in a league match.
0:09:00 > 0:09:05How do you think it would be accepted if a player came out as being gay in your team?
0:09:05 > 0:09:08As long as he was good, I don't think it matters, to be honest.
0:09:08 > 0:09:12I mean, there is nothing wrong with being gay or with being gay in football.
0:09:12 > 0:09:17I think you have opposition fans that will give abuse to players, because they're opposition fans.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21But I think if it's your team, the regular fan is more enlightened than that.
0:09:21 > 0:09:25'Because Brighton is the UK's most famous gay city,
0:09:25 > 0:09:29'I was told opposition fans often make fun of this.'
0:09:29 > 0:09:31What types of chants do they do, you know?
0:09:31 > 0:09:32What do they sing?
0:09:32 > 0:09:36"We can see you holding hands", "Stand up if you can't sit down",
0:09:36 > 0:09:38"Does your boyfriend know you're here?"
0:09:38 > 0:09:42"We know why you've got soft seats," things like that
0:09:42 > 0:09:45and we have to sing back "You're too ugly to be gay".
0:09:45 > 0:09:51# You're too ugly to be gay You're too ugly too be gay. #
0:09:51 > 0:09:55Do you regard these chants as homophobic abuse or just banter?
0:09:55 > 0:09:59My personal opinion is that it's homophobic abuse and it needs to be wiped out.
0:09:59 > 0:10:03It's football banter, isn't it, you know? I don't think they go home
0:10:03 > 0:10:07and start shouting it at the railway station and all that. I think it's just in here.
0:10:07 > 0:10:12If racial abuse is banned, then why is homophobic abuse not banned?
0:10:14 > 0:10:19So I'm going into the game now and I'm going to see for myself
0:10:19 > 0:10:23if all the chanting that they say that there is, is true.
0:10:36 > 0:10:40And it didn't take long for some Leeds fans to get going.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55I've literally been here for like ten minutes
0:10:55 > 0:10:59and I've heard exactly what the fans outside said that they would say.
0:11:10 > 0:11:14It grew into a very heated match, with both sets of fans singing
0:11:14 > 0:11:17and shouting all the way through.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41The game has now finished. It's been a really tribal atmosphere,
0:11:41 > 0:11:43really intense and really intimidating.
0:11:43 > 0:11:47I really wouldn't want to be a footballer out there. It's scary!
0:11:49 > 0:11:53Many Leeds fans had not been chanting about Brighton's reputation as a gay city.
0:11:55 > 0:12:00But I left under the strong impression that an openly gay player on any team would have to suffer
0:12:00 > 0:12:04taunts from sections of any opposing fans.
0:12:07 > 0:12:11However, I still wasn't sure how far this was to blame
0:12:11 > 0:12:15for why there are no publicly gay professional footballers.
0:12:17 > 0:12:21So who better to ask than one of football's most famous gay fans,
0:12:21 > 0:12:22comedian Matt Lucas?
0:12:25 > 0:12:29We hooked up outside his favourite ground.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32I went to Brighton to see a football game
0:12:32 > 0:12:34and I think I was a bit, you know, shocked.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37They just have homophobic chants continuously being
0:12:37 > 0:12:39- shouted at them like...- Really?
0:12:39 > 0:12:41Yeah. "We can see you holding hands".
0:12:41 > 0:12:45Sorry to interrupt, but I think "We can see you holding hands" is actually quite witty.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49- Yeah.- I've think you've got to allow a little bit.
0:12:49 > 0:12:52You know, you've got to be able to have a bit of a laugh and a joke.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56Once you're calling someone, you know, "effing poof" or something like that,
0:12:56 > 0:13:01then it's obviously, it's nasty and it's intended to be bullying and intimidating.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04Singing, "We can see you holding hands", I'd probably sing that
0:13:04 > 0:13:06if Arsenal were playing Brighton.
0:13:06 > 0:13:08'Matt brought up the baseless rumours invented
0:13:08 > 0:13:12'about former England star Sol Campbell's sexuality
0:13:12 > 0:13:16'by some Tottenham fans, following his transfer to bitter rivals Arsenal.'
0:13:18 > 0:13:20The words of the chant were a new low.
0:13:20 > 0:13:25"Sol, Sol, wherever you may be, not long now till lunacy,
0:13:25 > 0:13:29"and we won't give a fuck when you're hanging from a tree, you Judas BLEEP with HIV."
0:13:29 > 0:13:32- Wow.- Now... Yeah.
0:13:32 > 0:13:36Now, you know, that's when it's wrong on a million levels.
0:13:36 > 0:13:42But I don't think you can compare "We can see you holding hands" to that.
0:13:42 > 0:13:44It's pretty shocking, hey?
0:13:44 > 0:13:49It's really shocking and it's kind of illegal.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52'Campbell has denied he is gay and Tottenham have since
0:13:52 > 0:13:56'made successful efforts to eradicate this chant.'
0:13:56 > 0:14:01So who would you say are the main obstacle for footballers to come out?
0:14:01 > 0:14:03Would you say it's the fans?
0:14:03 > 0:14:07You know, I know that your uncle's experiences of being open,
0:14:07 > 0:14:10- admittedly quite a long time ago... - Yeah.- ..Weren't positive.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14And certainly, if you came out, as a footballer,
0:14:14 > 0:14:16the opposing fans would give you hell.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19There's absolutely no doubt about it.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22But I do think if you're a good player and you're popular,
0:14:22 > 0:14:25- your own fans will protect you.- Yeah.
0:14:25 > 0:14:27And they will chant back.
0:14:27 > 0:14:31And I think, after a while, it will become boring. You know.
0:14:31 > 0:14:37If the fans try and goad you, and you don't respond, then they're going to move on to something else.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39Thank you so, so much for everything.
0:14:39 > 0:14:43It's been very nice to meet you. You're a very pleasant young lady.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46- Thank you.- All the best. Bye-bye. Cut!
0:14:50 > 0:14:54Having spoken to Matt Lucas, I think I've realised that fans
0:14:54 > 0:14:58aren't the only problem as to why there are no openly gay players in England.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00You know, I think it's not as simple
0:15:00 > 0:15:04as the fans are going to scream abuse at you if you come out.
0:15:04 > 0:15:08There's more factors which influence why you wouldn't want to come out.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12Matt's reference to my uncle Justin spurred me
0:15:12 > 0:15:16to delve deeper into his struggles as a gay player.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21I figured this would help explain
0:15:21 > 0:15:25why no gay footballer has followed in Justin's boots since.
0:15:25 > 0:15:28Well, this one, at the top here, that's Justin.
0:15:28 > 0:15:35And this one, underneath here, is my dad and Justin together.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39Look, they're so cute if you zoom in.
0:15:39 > 0:15:43After their mother put Justin and my dad up for adoption as kids,
0:15:43 > 0:15:46they were raised together by white foster parents
0:15:46 > 0:15:49in the Norfolk countryside.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52At this point, I think they're really, really close.
0:15:52 > 0:15:57They were inseparable at this time. Mischievous. They're just cheeky!
0:15:57 > 0:16:00These two... Wow.
0:16:01 > 0:16:05Whereas my Dad initially didn't make it as a professional footballer,
0:16:05 > 0:16:08Justin's career started with a bang.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11COMMENTATOR: Here's Fashanu again and that is three.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14MUSIC: "Blue Monday" by New Order
0:16:14 > 0:16:15As just a teenager,
0:16:15 > 0:16:19he became a goal-scoring sensation for Norwich City.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22Oh, and Fashanu's through here for Norwich.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24Fashanu came in.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31This included one the greatest goals of all time.
0:16:31 > 0:16:36Fashanu... Oh, what a goal! Oh, that's a magnificent goal.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38Didn't seem to be the room between...
0:16:38 > 0:16:42- I take it is the best goal you've scored?- Yeah, without a doubt.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46He earned a big money transfer to Nottingham Forest in 1981,
0:16:46 > 0:16:49as the first ever million-pound black player.
0:16:49 > 0:16:53How do you want to see your life developing over the next ten years?
0:16:53 > 0:16:56I would like to get richer and more famous.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00Back then Forest were a big club, winning trophies
0:17:00 > 0:17:04under legendary manager Brian Clough.
0:17:04 > 0:17:06Get in there, that's what I pay you for.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09Famous for taking no nonsense from his players.
0:17:09 > 0:17:13For missing the target from there, you want bloody shooting.
0:17:13 > 0:17:14Fashanu...
0:17:14 > 0:17:16But the move was a disaster.
0:17:16 > 0:17:21Clough took against Justin's failure to score goals on the pitch...
0:17:21 > 0:17:25- And here's Fashanu.- ..And his first visits to gay clubs off it.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Surprised to discover that Clough publicly referred
0:17:31 > 0:17:34to my uncle as a "poof", I was keen to gauge
0:17:34 > 0:17:37if these kinds of attitudes are still prevalent
0:17:37 > 0:17:40around football today.
0:17:40 > 0:17:44So I travelled to see one of Justin's former team-mates at Nottingham Forest.
0:17:44 > 0:17:47We're on our way to Nottingham to meet John McGovern,
0:17:47 > 0:17:53who was close to Brian Clough and was also Justin's team captain.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56I have a few tough questions to ask him
0:17:56 > 0:18:00and I'm just really intrigued to know what he has to say.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10'These days, John is a BBC football commentator.'
0:18:10 > 0:18:14And here we've got one or two photographs of obviously
0:18:14 > 0:18:18when the club was very, very successful and champions of Europe.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20As you can see I was the captain,
0:18:20 > 0:18:22so I was the first one to lay my hands on the cup,
0:18:22 > 0:18:27but I'm surrounded by some very, very talented players.
0:18:28 > 0:18:31'When we got talking about Justin, I quickly learned
0:18:31 > 0:18:34'John didn't put my uncle in this bracket.'
0:18:34 > 0:18:37So basically he didn't really perform well on the pitch?
0:18:37 > 0:18:40No, no. No, not well enough.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43He just never managed to find his form
0:18:43 > 0:18:45and things didn't go too well for him.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48How did Justin fit into the team you played for?
0:18:48 > 0:18:52Just like one of the players. I mean, you know, he'd crack a joke.
0:18:52 > 0:18:56We'd take the mickey out of him, he'd take the mickey out of us.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59He was no different from any other player in that sense.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02He used to smell nice. He used to smell lovely.
0:19:02 > 0:19:06Did Justin get teased by other team-mates for his sexuality?
0:19:06 > 0:19:10Well, I know he came out and said he was gay, but we didn't actually know at the time.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13Because he hadn't come out at that time and said he was gay.
0:19:13 > 0:19:16- So no-one knew, no-one suspected. - No.- Or was it rumours?
0:19:16 > 0:19:19I think the only thing he'd have suffered from is the lads
0:19:19 > 0:19:22maybe taking the mickey out of him, because of that situation.
0:19:22 > 0:19:26Because footballers take the mickey out of everybody.
0:19:26 > 0:19:31In his autobiography, Clough refers to Justin as a poof.
0:19:31 > 0:19:33- Um, what do you think about that? - HE LAUGHS
0:19:33 > 0:19:37- Well, I take it that's a slang word for a homosexual.- Yes.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40So Justin was a homosexual, so...
0:19:40 > 0:19:43- But was it OK to call him a poof? - HE CONTINUES LAUGHING
0:19:43 > 0:19:49Well, I'm laughing because, at the time, we would've laughed as well, as footballers.
0:19:49 > 0:19:51Because, you know, that's...
0:19:51 > 0:19:53I don't even call that discrimination, you know.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57It's...it's another word for what we're talking about,
0:19:57 > 0:20:00being a homosexual. I don't know... "Gay" is another one, you know.
0:20:00 > 0:20:04If he'd have called him gay, which I think is perhaps more acceptable.
0:20:04 > 0:20:09But, I think it would only be used in a comical sense.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12Rather than trying to victimise somebody, you know.
0:20:12 > 0:20:16Why do you think there are no openly gay professional footballers now in England?
0:20:16 > 0:20:22I don't know, I don't know. There probably are,
0:20:22 > 0:20:24but why they don't want to come out, I don't know.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27- Do you know of any? - Do I know of any? No.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33There are lots of former players from John's generation
0:20:33 > 0:20:37working in and around football today off the pitch.
0:20:37 > 0:20:41I left our meeting, even more eager for an opportunity to compare
0:20:41 > 0:20:44the attitudes of footballers playing on the pitch now.
0:20:52 > 0:20:54Back in London, I hooked up with my friend, Tuni.
0:20:54 > 0:20:57- # Girls, money, money, money - Girls, girls, cash, cash. #
0:20:57 > 0:21:00- Oh, my gosh, they have three colours.- I know.
0:21:00 > 0:21:02It will go with your skin colour. How would you wear that?
0:21:02 > 0:21:06- Buy them and wear them. - These are so nice.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09- Thank you so much.- Thank you.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13'We got talking about what I'd been finding out.'
0:21:17 > 0:21:20Do you think stuff has actually changed with football now?
0:21:20 > 0:21:23The thing is, from what I've been hearing
0:21:23 > 0:21:27and the people I've been interviewing, I think football's
0:21:27 > 0:21:30really stuck in an era which we can't move, you know?
0:21:30 > 0:21:35It's really sad that no gay footballers have come out since Justin. It's really sad.
0:21:35 > 0:21:37I think it might be a kind of situation
0:21:37 > 0:21:40where if more people came out then it would become more acceptable.
0:21:40 > 0:21:44But because no-one really has come out since Justin,
0:21:44 > 0:21:46then it just makes it a lot harder
0:21:46 > 0:21:49for anyone who is thinking about coming out,
0:21:49 > 0:21:52cos they don't want to have to face those pressures.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55I get it, but then it's like no-one ever's going to come out.
0:21:55 > 0:21:57So we're never going to tackle that situation.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00So something has to be done.
0:22:00 > 0:22:01If there are any gay players,
0:22:01 > 0:22:04they're probably so petrified of coming out
0:22:04 > 0:22:08that it's going to be really, really hard for times to change.
0:22:14 > 0:22:19In my quest to discover why there are no openly gay professional players,
0:22:19 > 0:22:23so far I had not met anyone who even knew OF a gay player.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27But there was one man I could count on here.
0:22:28 > 0:22:31I'm meeting one of the biggest bosses in the PR world.
0:22:31 > 0:22:34If there's anybody who knows about celebrities
0:22:34 > 0:22:37and their secrets, it's definitely him.
0:22:39 > 0:22:42Could you give us a rough estimate of how many players you know
0:22:42 > 0:22:44who are gay, in football?
0:22:44 > 0:22:46I'd say in the last 15-20 years,
0:22:46 > 0:22:52probably half a dozen that I know are either gay or bisexual.
0:22:52 > 0:22:54There's been others that I suspect.
0:22:54 > 0:22:57What do you think are the chances of getting a big name,
0:22:57 > 0:23:01you know, of a player currently playing now, of coming out?
0:23:01 > 0:23:04I've been asked a thousand times in the last five years. No.
0:23:04 > 0:23:05Won't happen.
0:23:05 > 0:23:09You know, when gay footballers have come to me over the years,
0:23:09 > 0:23:14looking to protect their identity, they made it very clear to me
0:23:14 > 0:23:19that, in their view, you know, their career would be finished
0:23:19 > 0:23:20if they were known to be openly gay.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23So I'm not going to give them a load of advice
0:23:23 > 0:23:26because some TV producer wants them to come out.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29What would the reaction be in the dressing room
0:23:29 > 0:23:31if a footballer came out as being gay?
0:23:31 > 0:23:37Um... The reaction that I've got from footballers in that situation
0:23:37 > 0:23:42has been that it would be totally unacceptable to the other players.
0:23:42 > 0:23:45They would be ostracised.
0:23:45 > 0:23:50I think also the mentality of most people in and around football,
0:23:50 > 0:23:52goes back pretty much to the Dark Ages.
0:23:52 > 0:23:56They're still as frightened now as they would have been ten years ago.
0:23:56 > 0:24:01If a player says he wants to come out as being gay and face the world and media,
0:24:01 > 0:24:06I'm kind of wondering for agents, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
0:24:06 > 0:24:08Most of the football agents that I know
0:24:08 > 0:24:11are only interested in one thing, and that's money.
0:24:11 > 0:24:15So if, by their star coming out,
0:24:15 > 0:24:19it's going to affect their earnings, then they won't want them to do it.
0:24:19 > 0:24:22That's all part of the football mentality,
0:24:22 > 0:24:24which is money, money, money.
0:24:25 > 0:24:26In Max's mind,
0:24:26 > 0:24:30there was no doubt that homophobia is a serious problem in football.
0:24:39 > 0:24:45On the surface, rugby is an even tougher and more macho game.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50But in 2009, Welsh legend Gareth Thomas
0:24:50 > 0:24:54amazed the whole country by announcing that he was gay.
0:25:06 > 0:25:08'At a celebrity charity event...
0:25:10 > 0:25:12'..I was able to meet the man who has become
0:25:12 > 0:25:16'Britain's most iconic gay sportsman.'
0:25:16 > 0:25:19Hi, Gareth, nice meeting you. I'm Amal Fashanu.
0:25:19 > 0:25:20- Nice to meet you, are you OK?- You OK?
0:25:20 > 0:25:24'I managed to grab Gareth and some recently retired rugby stars
0:25:24 > 0:25:26'for a chat about the different attitudes
0:25:26 > 0:25:29'to homosexuality within rugby and football.'
0:25:30 > 0:25:33So could you just kind of explain to me
0:25:33 > 0:25:35how it happened or why you decided to come out?
0:25:35 > 0:25:38Was it very difficult for you?
0:25:38 > 0:25:40It was a huge weight lifted off your shoulder and...
0:25:40 > 0:25:42You know, to walk around the street
0:25:42 > 0:25:46and, you know, have friends who want to be your friends
0:25:46 > 0:25:48because of who you are in entirety,
0:25:48 > 0:25:51not because of who you create yourself to be.
0:25:51 > 0:25:54And your family to love you for who you are in your entirety
0:25:54 > 0:25:59is...is a feeling that most people take for granted.
0:25:59 > 0:26:02But it's a feeling that I never had and it's the best,
0:26:02 > 0:26:05most overwhelming feeling I felt and still feel to this day.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09What is it about rugby that's different?
0:26:09 > 0:26:12When I came out, the WRU, Welsh Rugby Union, who are the governing body
0:26:12 > 0:26:15of the country I played in, they came out after
0:26:15 > 0:26:18and they issued a message of support and that was brilliant.
0:26:18 > 0:26:20They sent out a really good message.
0:26:20 > 0:26:23I think there wasn't a single person that said anything.
0:26:23 > 0:26:24Well, as far as from...
0:26:24 > 0:26:27Observing from a distance, everyone's very supportive
0:26:27 > 0:26:29and that Gareth's Gareth, you know?
0:26:29 > 0:26:32He's always been Gareth to me, hasn't he?
0:26:32 > 0:26:35- Fortunately he still always will be! - You're right there, man.
0:26:35 > 0:26:37You have to remember we play a pretty physical sport.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40You beat the crap out of each other half the time.
0:26:40 > 0:26:44Outsiders may see cuddling in the scrum, your head between each other's legs.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47I can tell you, there's nothing romantic about that!
0:26:47 > 0:26:51Do you think the football authorities care enough about this issue?
0:26:51 > 0:26:54I think if the FA were to come out and make a statement saying,
0:26:54 > 0:26:55"We will stamp on anything."
0:26:55 > 0:26:58Then it will create a safer environment that's comfortable
0:26:58 > 0:27:01for the footballer to be able to walk into now.
0:27:01 > 0:27:03For me, that's the important thing.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06There's a pool of talent that doesn't want to go
0:27:06 > 0:27:08into football cos they're afraid to.
0:27:08 > 0:27:11You don't have to, just because you've not got a gay footballer,
0:27:11 > 0:27:12say, "We don't need to do anything."
0:27:12 > 0:27:16Do something and then, you know what? In ten years, you may have 20 gay footballers
0:27:16 > 0:27:20and the Premier League could be a better place for it.
0:27:20 > 0:27:23'It was pretty easy to speak to rugby players about this issue
0:27:23 > 0:27:25'and it didn't seem to bother them that much
0:27:25 > 0:27:28'as it does with footballers.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31'Gareth, as he said, they accepted him for who he was'
0:27:31 > 0:27:36while being his team-mates, his coaches, you know, the people around him, his family.
0:27:36 > 0:27:39He's obviously had a positive experience.
0:27:49 > 0:27:52'The next day my Mum came over from her home in Spain
0:27:52 > 0:27:55'to help me move flat.'
0:27:55 > 0:27:59- Can you help me please put it on the bed?- OK.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02'She was one of my uncle Justin's closest friends.'
0:28:02 > 0:28:06- You can start folding if you can help me.- OK.
0:28:06 > 0:28:10'She brought over some possessions which have been locked in her attic
0:28:10 > 0:28:12'since his death.'
0:28:12 > 0:28:15This one is when I went to visit him in New Zealand.
0:28:15 > 0:28:21We went out to a pub and then we went to a disco
0:28:21 > 0:28:23and it was a great night out.
0:28:23 > 0:28:26He looks so huge, he can't fit under the table.
0:28:26 > 0:28:29Nah, I mean, he was very muscley.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32We had a great time in New Zealand and people like him there very much.
0:28:32 > 0:28:34He was very happy in New Zealand.
0:28:34 > 0:28:36I'm glad you look so happy.
0:28:37 > 0:28:43'The support shown to Gareth Thomas by his family had stuck in my mind.
0:28:43 > 0:28:46'So the conversation inevitably turned to how my family reacted
0:28:46 > 0:28:48'to Justin announcing he was gay.'
0:28:48 > 0:28:52When Justin came out in 1990, what actually...
0:28:52 > 0:28:55You would have supported him, I know you would have, right?
0:28:55 > 0:28:58- Even if he was gay, it didn't really matter.- Of course I did. I mean...
0:28:58 > 0:29:02- So he wasn't totally alone? - No. No, no, no, no.
0:29:02 > 0:29:06I mean, to me, you are still the same person, I will still love him
0:29:06 > 0:29:12and I didn't give him any negative comment. Completely the opposite.
0:29:12 > 0:29:16Do you think other members of my family and probably his friends
0:29:16 > 0:29:18supported him as well, though?
0:29:18 > 0:29:22Mmm... OK. Difficult question, Amal.
0:29:22 > 0:29:25Er... I know some of them,
0:29:25 > 0:29:29they were not happy with it and they were not supportive.
0:29:29 > 0:29:33What was my Dad's reaction when he came out? You know, Justin.
0:29:35 > 0:29:40Well, I think it's an answer for your dad to give it to you.
0:29:40 > 0:29:42Because, I mean...
0:29:42 > 0:29:46At the time I was very upset, and...
0:29:46 > 0:29:50I maybe can give you the wrong answer.
0:29:50 > 0:29:54And he is the one who is going to really tell you
0:29:54 > 0:29:57exactly how he felt and how he reacted.
0:29:57 > 0:30:00What was Justin and John's relationship like?
0:30:00 > 0:30:03John was little bit jealous of Justin.
0:30:03 > 0:30:10John was younger than Justin and Justin made it straightaway,
0:30:10 > 0:30:14But Justin was too many things happening to him at the same time
0:30:14 > 0:30:18and I think he forgot a little bit his younger brother.
0:30:18 > 0:30:24I don't know it was sad as well that they fell apart so badly
0:30:24 > 0:30:26because - and then it was like a competition between them,
0:30:26 > 0:30:29do you know what I mean? That... That...
0:30:29 > 0:30:31Distanced them?
0:30:31 > 0:30:32Yeah, a lot.
0:30:35 > 0:30:38The former footballer Justin Fashanu has been found dead...
0:30:38 > 0:30:41My mum left me a documentary to watch about Justin's life,
0:30:41 > 0:30:45made shortly after his suicide in the late 90s.
0:30:45 > 0:30:47Because of my young age at the time,
0:30:47 > 0:30:50my dad had never allowed me to watch this before.
0:30:50 > 0:30:53This is a film about a man who had everything.
0:30:53 > 0:30:55Looks, talent, money.
0:30:55 > 0:30:59Who lost it all and died alone in shame.
0:30:59 > 0:31:05I discovered how my Dad reacted in the media to Justin's coming out.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08The fact he's come out publicly and said his sexual preferences.
0:31:08 > 0:31:11And now he'll have to suffer the consequences.
0:31:11 > 0:31:13I wouldn't like to play or get changed in the vicinity of him.
0:31:13 > 0:31:15That's just the way I feel.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18If I'm like that, I'm sure the rest of the footballers are.
0:31:18 > 0:31:22It's disappointed me, because I thought he had more depth
0:31:22 > 0:31:25and more tolerance, I think, is the word, because we have been through
0:31:25 > 0:31:29so much together, especially as kids, we've been through so much,
0:31:29 > 0:31:32that I think it's disappointed me, I thought he was better than that.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35Have I spoken to him? No, I haven't spoken to John.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38With Justin's star on the wane, I learned that he later
0:31:38 > 0:31:42fabricated stories about his sexual conquests to sell to the tabloids.
0:31:42 > 0:31:47I was in a situation where I thought this was easy money
0:31:47 > 0:31:50because people were convinced that I was involved.
0:31:50 > 0:31:52I have never, ever had any sexual...
0:31:52 > 0:31:57Four years later, in 1998, Justin was accused of sexually assaulting
0:31:57 > 0:32:00a 17-year-old boy in America.
0:32:00 > 0:32:02Distraught, he fled back to the UK.
0:32:03 > 0:32:09On May 1st Justin Fashanu hanged himself in a lock up garage in London's East End.
0:32:09 > 0:32:12He'd found out police in Maryland had issued a warrant for his arrest.
0:32:12 > 0:32:16For the first time, I heard the suicide message my uncle wrote.
0:32:16 > 0:32:18"Well, if anyone finds this note,
0:32:18 > 0:32:20"hopefully I won't be around to see it.
0:32:20 > 0:32:23"But let's begin at the beginning. What a start.
0:32:23 > 0:32:26"Everything going so well.
0:32:26 > 0:32:27"Then I felt that I was abandoned,
0:32:27 > 0:32:30"left alone without anybody to turn to."
0:32:31 > 0:32:34"Being gay and a personality is so hard."
0:32:35 > 0:32:39"I want to say that I didn't sexually assault the young boy. He willingly had sex with me
0:32:39 > 0:32:42"and then the next day he asked for money.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46"When I said no, he said, 'You wait and see.'
0:32:46 > 0:32:49"The blood is from my wrists, cut because I want to die,
0:32:49 > 0:32:53"rather than put my friends and family through any more unhappiness."
0:32:54 > 0:32:59"I wish that I was more of a good son, brother, uncle and friend.
0:32:59 > 0:33:02"But I tried my best. This seems to be a really hard world."
0:33:15 > 0:33:16Give me a sec.
0:33:27 > 0:33:31Well, I think as a ten year old, rightly so, my family,
0:33:31 > 0:33:33or my parents, tried to protect me.
0:33:33 > 0:33:38So I don't think that I've been exposed in a while.
0:33:38 > 0:33:40I know this might stupid and I'm 22, but...
0:33:49 > 0:33:54It's destroyed my family, it's really destroyed my family.
0:33:54 > 0:33:56I'm just really upset that I wasn't there
0:33:56 > 0:33:59and that I wasn't 22 back then.
0:33:59 > 0:34:03Because if I was 22 back then, I don't know, I'm not saying
0:34:03 > 0:34:06I could have changed everything but I think he only needed
0:34:06 > 0:34:09that one family member, maybe, or two or three or
0:34:09 > 0:34:12someone to help, I don't know.
0:34:13 > 0:34:17He shouldn't have felt alone. I think that's what most upset me.
0:34:17 > 0:34:20Whether he's gay or not gay. He just shouldn't have been alone.
0:34:37 > 0:34:40I now knew I would have to confront my dad
0:34:40 > 0:34:44about his disloyalty to Justin, when I next saw him face to face.
0:34:47 > 0:34:52In the meantime, one of my many calls to footballers and clubs finally paid off.
0:34:54 > 0:34:58I was given an opportunity at last to ask some current professionals
0:34:58 > 0:35:00about the lack of openly gay players.
0:35:02 > 0:35:06I was invited down to training at Championship club, Millwall.
0:35:14 > 0:35:19Since it's famously one of the toughest clubs around,
0:35:19 > 0:35:21I was a bit unsure how they would react to my questions.
0:35:28 > 0:35:31I tried to get a group discussion going,
0:35:31 > 0:35:33but a lot of the players were not keen to talk at all.
0:35:35 > 0:35:37Justin Fashanu was my uncle
0:35:37 > 0:35:40and basically we're just talking about homophobia in football.
0:35:40 > 0:35:43We're just kind of saying, you know, what you guys think,
0:35:43 > 0:35:46if one of your teammates came out gay, what would you think,
0:35:46 > 0:35:48you know, what would you say?
0:35:48 > 0:35:51The recent 10, 13 years, no one has really come out
0:35:51 > 0:35:52apart from uncle.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55I just wanted to let you know if you want to do it, you know.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59- You've got you your player now? - I don't know, I'll think about it.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02Yeah? But please think about it.
0:36:02 > 0:36:05I've come in here and tried to approach five or six
0:36:05 > 0:36:07and everyone's just like...
0:36:07 > 0:36:12'But thankfully some of the more senior members of the squad were up for it.'
0:36:13 > 0:36:17'What I really wanted to know is how they would react to a gay teammate.'
0:36:19 > 0:36:22The lads are so supportive in the dressing room, I don't think
0:36:22 > 0:36:25there would be any problems within that sort of environment.
0:36:25 > 0:36:28I wouldn't have any problems with that whatsoever.
0:36:28 > 0:36:31In my personal life, I've got a couple of friends back home
0:36:31 > 0:36:35in Wiltshire and Gloucestershire that are gay men.
0:36:35 > 0:36:37If a player did come out I think they would be happy
0:36:37 > 0:36:40if there was that sort of banter, in the dressing room
0:36:40 > 0:36:43because it means they've been accepted within the dressing room.
0:36:43 > 0:36:45If that's your preference,
0:36:45 > 0:36:47if you find men more attractive than women, then so be it.
0:36:47 > 0:36:50It's just another part that makes up your character and
0:36:50 > 0:36:53makes up the different characters that make up a dressing room.
0:36:53 > 0:36:56Why don't more players think like you?
0:36:56 > 0:37:00Players don't really want to come out and talk about homosexuality
0:37:00 > 0:37:04because they don't really want to be sort of labelled to be sort of gay.
0:37:04 > 0:37:07There is this sort of stigma with being gay
0:37:07 > 0:37:10and it's about putting that stigma to be bed.
0:37:10 > 0:37:12Do you know any gay players?
0:37:12 > 0:37:15There has been suspicions of a few players over the years.
0:37:15 > 0:37:17But, no, I don't know any openly gay players.
0:37:17 > 0:37:20They say that one in ten men are gay.
0:37:20 > 0:37:25Now, I'm wondering do you think in your team you have any gay members?
0:37:25 > 0:37:33Erm... I couldn't honestly answer that knowing for sure.
0:37:33 > 0:37:36Obviously there is no-one in our team that's come out
0:37:36 > 0:37:39and said to any of us in private.
0:37:39 > 0:37:42How hard do you think it's going to be for me to find one?
0:37:44 > 0:37:48I think you've got work cut out, I've got to be honest.
0:37:48 > 0:37:49Well played!
0:37:49 > 0:37:52'To hear straight players express positive words
0:37:52 > 0:37:56'about accepting gay colleagues was a genuine revelation.'
0:37:57 > 0:37:59From what I've heard from them,
0:37:59 > 0:38:02I just really don't think that the team-mates care.
0:38:02 > 0:38:06And I think it would be banter and they obviously would comment
0:38:06 > 0:38:10and from time to time say something, but I don't think
0:38:10 > 0:38:14it would be harmful, like, discrimination to call it that.
0:38:14 > 0:38:16And I'm kind of pleased because at least I know that
0:38:16 > 0:38:19if there was a gay player who wanted to be open,
0:38:19 > 0:38:22he could finally maybe come out and feel supported by his team-mates.
0:38:32 > 0:38:35'By now, word had spread around football
0:38:35 > 0:38:38'that I was looking into why there are no publicly gay players.
0:38:39 > 0:38:42'A professional referee made contact to say
0:38:42 > 0:38:47'he wanted to talk openly about being homosexual in the game.
0:38:47 > 0:38:51'But his superiors later told us that match officials aren't
0:38:51 > 0:38:54'allowed to talk to the press as a general rule.'
0:38:55 > 0:38:57'Fearing for his career,
0:38:57 > 0:39:00'the referee felt he could not go ahead with our interview.'
0:39:02 > 0:39:05I'm really frustrated, the fact that this guy actually wanted to come out.
0:39:05 > 0:39:10You know, he had taken the choice that he wanted to come out,
0:39:10 > 0:39:12and his bosses have now said no.
0:39:12 > 0:39:15To be honest with you, it's what I've been seeing in football,
0:39:15 > 0:39:18it's just a typical attitude in football.
0:39:18 > 0:39:22'I had run into the brick wall of the football authorities.
0:39:23 > 0:39:25'To try and make sense of this,
0:39:25 > 0:39:31'I met up with one of Britain's loudest gay rights campaigners.
0:39:34 > 0:39:38'Former NBA basketball star John Amaechi
0:39:38 > 0:39:42'believes there is one underlying explanation
0:39:42 > 0:39:45'for football's attitudes to homosexuality.'
0:39:47 > 0:39:52Football in particular's got some very detailed problems.
0:39:52 > 0:39:56They're run by a group of straight, white, old men.
0:39:56 > 0:39:58Football is clearly not that comfortable
0:39:58 > 0:40:01with women in boardrooms.
0:40:01 > 0:40:05They're clearly not that comfortable with black people in management positions.
0:40:05 > 0:40:09And so, when it comes to gay people, that just blows their mind, I think.
0:40:09 > 0:40:11Homophobia happens in boardrooms.
0:40:11 > 0:40:15I've been in rooms with people who are talking about football players
0:40:15 > 0:40:17and whether they might be gay or not.
0:40:17 > 0:40:19And some of the things they say, it takes me back
0:40:19 > 0:40:21to being 11 years old.
0:40:21 > 0:40:26So you would say, kind of, that football hasn't moved on from then?
0:40:26 > 0:40:30The real problem that I have with it is that they've got every resource.
0:40:30 > 0:40:32They've got near unlimited money.
0:40:32 > 0:40:36They've got the power to change this. My question is whether they want to.
0:40:36 > 0:40:40Do you personally know any gay players yourself?
0:40:40 > 0:40:42There are certainly some gay players in the league
0:40:42 > 0:40:45who talk about having a reasonably open life.
0:40:45 > 0:40:48They may not be out to their manager in any kind of way
0:40:48 > 0:40:51that they've discussed it, but they are the kind of players
0:40:51 > 0:40:56who actually go to the parties of their team-mates with their partner.
0:40:56 > 0:41:00So it's open in that sense - they just haven't told the entire universe.
0:41:00 > 0:41:06So you're always thinking about, "This situation is comfortable, but what happens when I move?
0:41:06 > 0:41:08"What happens if I play for..."
0:41:09 > 0:41:11..I won't say any names,
0:41:11 > 0:41:14but one of the more old school and successful managers
0:41:14 > 0:41:18who aren't that cool with new-fangled stuff
0:41:18 > 0:41:20like people being who they are?
0:41:22 > 0:41:27I think it's surprised me that there are gay players and they've come out to their team-mates.
0:41:27 > 0:41:30But obviously the fact that players are comfortable to come out
0:41:30 > 0:41:32to their family members and team-mates,
0:41:32 > 0:41:35it's obvious that there's another problem here.
0:41:35 > 0:41:40The FA, and the chairmen and managers of teams, are the ones
0:41:40 > 0:41:42who have the power to help change.
0:41:42 > 0:41:45'I was building a clearer picture of all the conditions
0:41:45 > 0:41:50'required for footballers to feel comfortable being openly homosexual.
0:41:52 > 0:41:56'But I was soon reminded of everything my uncle Justin was denied here
0:41:56 > 0:42:00'when my dad got in touch to say he was passing through London.'
0:42:01 > 0:42:04Driving towards my dad, I'm feeling a bit angry
0:42:04 > 0:42:06and maybe a bit upset as well.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09I don't really know what reaction he's going to have,
0:42:09 > 0:42:14because obviously I've never spoken to my dad about the issue of Justin.
0:42:14 > 0:42:18I don't really agree with most of the things that he said
0:42:18 > 0:42:21about Justin at the time, and in a way it almost
0:42:21 > 0:42:23feels like he's disowned his brother.
0:42:23 > 0:42:27So I'm just wondering now if he feels the same way.
0:42:30 > 0:42:34- Hello, Daddy, how are you?- Are you OK, darling? Come in, sweetie.
0:42:34 > 0:42:37- Yes, thank you, how are you?- Come in, darling. How was your trip?
0:42:37 > 0:42:40- It was good, thank you.- All good? Good, good, good.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42When Justin came out publicly,
0:42:42 > 0:42:46can you see why some people would see your behaviour as being homophobic?
0:42:46 > 0:42:49I'm not homophobic, I never have been.
0:42:51 > 0:42:57But at the time, I was certainly cross with my brother. Certainly.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59But do you ever not think that
0:42:59 > 0:43:03he was confused, he was lost, and that he would have maybe
0:43:03 > 0:43:07liked the support of his family in order to face the reality
0:43:07 > 0:43:10that he was gay and wanted to share it with the whole world?
0:43:10 > 0:43:15Wonderful! Who gives a hoot? A rat's bottom, whether you're gay or not,
0:43:15 > 0:43:17nobody cares.
0:43:17 > 0:43:19It was the WAY it came out.
0:43:19 > 0:43:25Cheap, dirty, horrible scandals, day after day.
0:43:25 > 0:43:27Going on the front page,
0:43:27 > 0:43:31saying that you've had sexual relationships with MPs,
0:43:31 > 0:43:34going in the newspapers saying that you
0:43:34 > 0:43:38have had relationships with young boys, or accusations.
0:43:38 > 0:43:41All these things were scandals.
0:43:41 > 0:43:46I'm sorry, we have a reputation, we have a name to protect.
0:43:46 > 0:43:49We're not all working to now be scandalised
0:43:49 > 0:43:51by one member of our family.
0:43:51 > 0:43:55But do you think that going on TV like you did
0:43:55 > 0:43:58and saying the things you did was the best way to handle it?
0:43:58 > 0:44:03Well, yeah, some viewers will say, "Look at Big Fash, he's selfish."
0:44:03 > 0:44:07We're all selfish here. We were all selfish.
0:44:07 > 0:44:09Justin was selfish,
0:44:09 > 0:44:14because to come out and not care or worry about anybody else
0:44:14 > 0:44:18and tell the world you are gay, at a time when... It was so hostile!
0:44:18 > 0:44:26What I did, I did what I thought was right for our family. Our family.
0:44:26 > 0:44:28And myself.
0:44:28 > 0:44:33If you would do everything again, would you change anything you did?
0:44:33 > 0:44:35Mmm...
0:44:38 > 0:44:40I don't know.
0:44:44 > 0:44:46Well, I don't know.
0:44:50 > 0:44:52Mistakes were made...
0:44:52 > 0:44:55It's OK, kiddo.
0:44:55 > 0:44:56It's OK.
0:45:01 > 0:45:03SHE SNIFFS
0:45:05 > 0:45:07It's OK, darling.
0:45:08 > 0:45:10We miss him.
0:45:11 > 0:45:13- SHE SNIFFS - It's OK.
0:45:19 > 0:45:20It's OK.
0:45:23 > 0:45:26We move on. We move on.
0:45:26 > 0:45:31In Justin's suicide note, he does say that, you know,
0:45:31 > 0:45:35he makes emphasis of how hard it was for him to be gay.
0:45:35 > 0:45:37Do you feel that, you know,
0:45:37 > 0:45:41there was something more you could have done to help him in any way?
0:45:41 > 0:45:44We tried. As a family we tried, Amal.
0:45:44 > 0:45:50I sleep at night wondering, all the time, could I have done more?
0:45:50 > 0:45:53And I keep coming up with the answer yes, I could have done more.
0:45:56 > 0:45:59Does that console me, does that... No.
0:46:01 > 0:46:02Don't cry, darling.
0:46:06 > 0:46:08It's OK, darling.
0:46:09 > 0:46:11No more tears.
0:46:13 > 0:46:16We've cried for nearly two decades with Justin.
0:46:18 > 0:46:20It's enough.
0:46:33 > 0:46:36It's like yesterday - it's painful.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40I think my dad is very, very angry still.
0:46:40 > 0:46:41No matter how much time passes,
0:46:41 > 0:46:44I think that that anger's not going to go away,
0:46:44 > 0:46:46because Justin's not going to come back.
0:46:46 > 0:46:51I think I've come to realise myself that, yeah, maybe Justin wasn't
0:46:51 > 0:46:56the perfect person that I had painted when I was ten years old.
0:46:56 > 0:47:00Maybe he DID do some things that upset our family.
0:47:00 > 0:47:04But having said that, I still don't excuse my dad
0:47:04 > 0:47:09for kind of disowning his brother publicly, as he did.
0:47:09 > 0:47:13So it's...it's all a bit complicated.
0:47:15 > 0:47:18'It was clear to me now
0:47:18 > 0:47:20'that Justin's unhappy experiences
0:47:20 > 0:47:24'on both a personal and professional level must still cast a dark shadow
0:47:24 > 0:47:27'over any gay footballer in Britain.'
0:47:37 > 0:47:41'To find out what it takes for a gay footballer today to make
0:47:41 > 0:47:47'the giant leap into the public eye, I had to travel a long way from British football.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50'All the way down to the Swedish fourth division.'
0:47:55 > 0:47:58- Hi, Anton. - How are you doing? Do I get a hug?
0:47:58 > 0:48:00- Yeah, of course.- How was the flight?
0:48:00 > 0:48:04'Until recently Anton Hysen was only known to a few
0:48:04 > 0:48:08'as the son of former Liverpool legend, Glenn Hysen.
0:48:08 > 0:48:12'But last year Anton caused global shockwaves, when he became
0:48:12 > 0:48:16'the world's only openly gay current professional footballer.'
0:48:16 > 0:48:18So before coming out,
0:48:18 > 0:48:23were you like, a typical footballer with a supermodel girlfriend,
0:48:23 > 0:48:27blah, blah, blah and stuff like that...? What kind of happened?
0:48:27 > 0:48:31I was like, well, something needs to be done, right?
0:48:31 > 0:48:34I mean, I can't go on like this, just faking it.
0:48:34 > 0:48:37And so I was just basically telling the truth.
0:48:37 > 0:48:39And that is just what you gotta do. Be honest.
0:48:44 > 0:48:48What about your team-mates? Were they supportive?
0:48:48 > 0:48:49Did they always know about...
0:48:49 > 0:48:52Some people knew three years ago already when I did this.
0:48:52 > 0:48:55So, I mean, it hasn't been an issue. Nobody really cares.
0:48:55 > 0:48:58- It was just a normal thing?- Yeah.
0:48:58 > 0:49:01They do more jokes now. They're like, "It's OK now to do jokes.
0:49:01 > 0:49:04"We wanted to do it earlier but like, we see that it's OK now."
0:49:04 > 0:49:07I'm like, "It's OK, whenever..." I mean, I don't care.
0:49:12 > 0:49:15So your family was always very supportive
0:49:15 > 0:49:18and they gave you basically everything you needed,
0:49:18 > 0:49:20same as your friends?
0:49:20 > 0:49:25Yeah. Nobody... I was, like, "Maybe some friends are going to turn their backs now when I do this."
0:49:25 > 0:49:29But it was OK. Everyone was just fine with it.
0:49:30 > 0:49:34'I also discovered that Anton never has to face any hostility
0:49:34 > 0:49:36'or suspicion from local fans.'
0:49:38 > 0:49:43How do you feel about having an openly gay professional footballer in your team?
0:49:43 > 0:49:45I don't think we care, actually.
0:49:45 > 0:49:47So they respect him quite a lot here?
0:49:47 > 0:49:49Yeah, I think so.
0:49:49 > 0:49:52I think you have a lot of players who are gay.
0:49:52 > 0:49:55But they don't go out with that.
0:49:55 > 0:50:00So I think it's really strong from Anton to do that.
0:50:00 > 0:50:03'Well...practically no suspicion.'
0:50:03 > 0:50:06It's all right he homosexual.
0:50:06 > 0:50:08He can be that, it's all right,
0:50:08 > 0:50:11but I don't want to shower with him and like that...
0:50:11 > 0:50:13- You wouldn't want to shower with him?- No. No, no.
0:50:16 > 0:50:22Did you know that there was no other openly gay professional footballers?
0:50:22 > 0:50:25No. Honestly the only one I knew about was Justin.
0:50:25 > 0:50:26THEY ALL SHOUT
0:50:26 > 0:50:29But you were still like, you know, brave enough to come out
0:50:29 > 0:50:31and no problems?
0:50:31 > 0:50:34Oh, yes, yes. I know, like, I feel and know who I am,
0:50:34 > 0:50:36I'm strong... And I did have a lot of support,
0:50:36 > 0:50:37so that's good as well.
0:50:37 > 0:50:40- You are really brave.- Thank you!
0:50:40 > 0:50:43And I truly believe that. Like, honestly.
0:50:43 > 0:50:46Thank you. Thank you very much.
0:50:50 > 0:50:55'That evening, Anton invited me out with his team-mates to celebrate their victory.'
0:51:00 > 0:51:03'It was clear Swedish society's liberal values have helped
0:51:03 > 0:51:07'with his positive experience.'
0:51:11 > 0:51:14From spending the day with Anton, I think the thing I've most
0:51:14 > 0:51:18realised is that his social network and family and friends are very,
0:51:18 > 0:51:22very close, and I think they're very, very supportive of what he's doing.
0:51:22 > 0:51:26And obviously I can then appreciate how much easier it might have been
0:51:26 > 0:51:29for him to come out as opposed to my uncle.
0:51:31 > 0:51:35'I returned home to a significant breakthrough.
0:51:35 > 0:51:38'After months of pursuing high-profile Premiership stars
0:51:38 > 0:51:42'for an interview, one had finally agreed.'
0:51:45 > 0:51:49'For the first time, a genuine big-name footballer was going
0:51:49 > 0:51:52'to talk on TV about gay players.'
0:51:54 > 0:51:58'However, Queens Park Rangers captain Joey Barton
0:51:58 > 0:52:00'is not your typical Premiership star.'
0:52:03 > 0:52:07'I soon learned we had something important in common.'
0:52:07 > 0:52:11It's a subject that's close to my heart cos my dad's youngest brother,
0:52:11 > 0:52:14so the youngest of my uncles, is gay.
0:52:15 > 0:52:18And I didn't know for a long, long time.
0:52:18 > 0:52:21He thought, because of the society we were brought up in
0:52:21 > 0:52:23which was quite working class - that, you know,
0:52:23 > 0:52:28men are men and this kind of thing - that it would be frowned upon.
0:52:28 > 0:52:30Or that we would disown him.
0:52:30 > 0:52:33So for a lot of years he was in turmoil, you know,
0:52:33 > 0:52:37he was resenting himself for the fact he had these feelings.
0:52:37 > 0:52:39I was like, "Look, you know, I love you for YOU.
0:52:39 > 0:52:43"Not for the fact that you're straight or bisexual or gay
0:52:43 > 0:52:47"or that you're like...all different manner of things.
0:52:47 > 0:52:49"I love you because you're you."
0:52:49 > 0:52:53How far away do you think we are from a gay player coming out?
0:52:53 > 0:52:58There's no doubt in my mind that, within the next ten years,
0:52:58 > 0:53:00we will have an openly gay footballer.
0:53:00 > 0:53:04My only fear is, you know, certain managers,
0:53:04 > 0:53:08certain individuals within the game, will discriminate against people.
0:53:08 > 0:53:11These archaic figures think if they had a gay footballer
0:53:11 > 0:53:16that there would be all kinds of shenanigans going on in the dressing room!
0:53:16 > 0:53:18You know, that's not the case.
0:53:18 > 0:53:24And as I say, it's more fool them and their lack of social awareness and intelligence.
0:53:24 > 0:53:27It's been really hard to talk to straight players about this issue.
0:53:27 > 0:53:31I sort of pity them a little bit that they don't have,
0:53:31 > 0:53:34you know, enough about them or enough self-confidence
0:53:34 > 0:53:37or enough self-worth to be able to say, "Do you know what, actually,
0:53:37 > 0:53:40"this is a relevant subject and this is my opinion on it."
0:53:40 > 0:53:42And I think it's important that the legacy
0:53:42 > 0:53:46this generation of players leaves is of a generation of players
0:53:46 > 0:53:48that helped not only change the game for the better
0:53:48 > 0:53:51and change the teams that they played in,
0:53:51 > 0:53:55but also change the culture and change the society of the football clubs they played at.
0:53:55 > 0:53:59- Thank you.- Nice to meet you, thank you.- Thank you so much.
0:53:59 > 0:54:00'This plain speaking,
0:54:00 > 0:54:04'from one of the Premiership's best-known players, was refreshing.'
0:54:07 > 0:54:10'But it was time to ask the people who actually run the game
0:54:10 > 0:54:13'what they were doing to help gay footballers feel comfortable
0:54:13 > 0:54:16'being open about their sexuality.'
0:54:23 > 0:54:27'The Football Association invited me to their headquarters at Wembley Stadium.'
0:54:29 > 0:54:30I'm surprised that, you know,
0:54:30 > 0:54:35I'm speaking to a black female in the FA.
0:54:35 > 0:54:37It's quite interesting that people have an assumption
0:54:37 > 0:54:41and form stereotypes as to who is involved in the game.
0:54:41 > 0:54:43The FA and football is changing
0:54:43 > 0:54:47and it's not what it was 10, 15 years ago.
0:54:47 > 0:54:51People like John Amaechi argue that the FA have done very little
0:54:51 > 0:54:52to fight homophobia in football,
0:54:52 > 0:54:56because the men who run the organisations have old-fashioned attitudes
0:54:56 > 0:54:59and are not that concerned with the issue.
0:54:59 > 0:55:03I can't necessarily speak for him, why he feels that way.
0:55:03 > 0:55:06All I can say is there's genuine commitment across the FA
0:55:06 > 0:55:10and at the top level to tackle this issue.
0:55:10 > 0:55:15Some say that the FA hasn't really created an environment
0:55:15 > 0:55:18to allow, you know... for gay players to come out.
0:55:18 > 0:55:23One of the key things that we HAVE done is that we've put together a four-year plan,
0:55:23 > 0:55:27ensuring that we portray gay people in football
0:55:27 > 0:55:29and in sport in a positive light.
0:55:29 > 0:55:32But what we are focused on is grass roots.
0:55:32 > 0:55:35This is where, you know, millions of people play
0:55:35 > 0:55:39and follow the game, and it's really important that we educate
0:55:39 > 0:55:43and educate as widely as possible, and so therefore we feel that
0:55:43 > 0:55:46certainly, you know, we are doing something about the whole agenda.
0:55:53 > 0:55:57It's good to hear that the FA have a plan to make gay players
0:55:57 > 0:56:02feel more comfortable and accepted in the future within football.
0:56:02 > 0:56:06But it's a 4-year plan, and it's already been a whole 22 years
0:56:06 > 0:56:07since my uncle came out.
0:56:07 > 0:56:11I've learned that attitudes towards homosexuality in football
0:56:11 > 0:56:15HAVE changed, but not as quickly as they should have.
0:56:17 > 0:56:21Football clearly lags behind the rest of society
0:56:21 > 0:56:24when it comes to accepting openly gay people.
0:56:24 > 0:56:27To change things properly I think it's going to take another pioneer,
0:56:27 > 0:56:31brave enough like my uncle, to step forward into the limelight.
0:56:31 > 0:56:35And I think this will honour Justin's memory
0:56:35 > 0:56:36in the way he deserves.
0:56:36 > 0:56:41COMMENTATOR: 'Fashanu... Oh, what a goal. That's a magnificent goal!'
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