0:00:02 > 0:00:04CHEERING
0:00:06 > 0:00:12- COMMENTATOR: - Yes! Magnificent cricket from this man!
0:00:12 > 0:00:15Really, he set the place alight.
0:00:15 > 0:00:20As a professional sportsman, you experience some unbelievable highs
0:00:20 > 0:00:23and dramatic lows.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26You never think the lows could turn into depression.
0:00:26 > 0:00:28Cricketer Andrew Flintoff says he feels ashamed
0:00:28 > 0:00:31and embarrassed by his antics in the Caribbean.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34You put it down to it just being part of the game.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37The successes, the failures.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40For some, though, it becomes all too much.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43- I took a gun up to the woods. - With the intention...?
0:00:43 > 0:00:45- Yeah.- ..of firing it?- Yeah.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48I came out the ring, I took my head guard and my gloves off.
0:00:48 > 0:00:50I sat down on the steps of the ring
0:00:50 > 0:00:54and I put a towel over my head and I started sobbing and sobbing.
0:00:56 > 0:00:59I remember being startled when I was told there are
0:00:59 > 0:01:03more suicides for ex-cricketers than any other sport in Britain.
0:01:03 > 0:01:08I had no emotion at all. I was just numb. I had no anger. No tears.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11I was very, paranoid. I thought everybody was talking about me.
0:01:13 > 0:01:18The way I used to look at it was... um, why is it me?
0:01:18 > 0:01:20What's so wrong with me?
0:01:22 > 0:01:25I've played with team-mates who've suffered from depression.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28They say that one in ten sportsmen suffer from it.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30That's a player in every team in the country.
0:01:36 > 0:01:38But what triggers it?
0:01:38 > 0:01:40How do you cope with playing at the top level
0:01:40 > 0:01:43suffering with such a crippling psychological injury?
0:01:43 > 0:01:45One that you can't see,
0:01:45 > 0:01:49and one you often can't bring yourself to talk about.
0:01:49 > 0:01:54I want to explore what lies behind some of the things I went through.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57The ways I behaved.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59I want to understand what depression can do.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03What WE can do to allow people to really open up about it.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16Two different photos, four years apart.
0:02:16 > 0:02:19Same corner in the dressing room.
0:02:19 > 0:02:22These two here are my two favourite pictures.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25This one was 2005, the Ashes, a beer on, with me mate.
0:02:25 > 0:02:30For me, that's the best one. The only thing missing on that was the cigar.
0:02:30 > 0:02:34The difference between the two, 2005 was euphoria, middle of your career.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36That was in 2009.
0:02:36 > 0:02:40That's the end. I think I knew, deep down, that that was the end of me.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44CHEERING
0:02:44 > 0:02:46And now he goes, too.
0:02:46 > 0:02:50Would you believe what we're seeing here in Manchester?!
0:02:50 > 0:02:52Would you believe the magnificence of Steve Harmison,
0:02:52 > 0:02:54who has 4 for 14 today?
0:02:56 > 0:02:58- I was the number one bowler in the world at the time.- Yeah.
0:02:58 > 0:03:00At the top of me powers.
0:03:00 > 0:03:05And maybe the perception that everybody was looking at me
0:03:05 > 0:03:08thinking, "You've got to bowl South Africa out,
0:03:08 > 0:03:11"you've got to take five wickets each time,
0:03:11 > 0:03:13"you've got to do this, you've got to do that.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16"You've got to carry the attack, you've got to be..."
0:03:16 > 0:03:18And here I was, struggling inside,
0:03:18 > 0:03:21but it never really transformed onto the field.
0:03:21 > 0:03:24I never took it onto the field and thought I was struggling on the field.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26That was my get out, really.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Walking over that white line was like a release.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32We went into Jo'burg and it was the first time, really,
0:03:32 > 0:03:36I had gone into a trip where I was having one of these
0:03:36 > 0:03:41sort of dark days, or episodes, as the doctor said to me afterwards.
0:03:41 > 0:03:45It was the first time I'd gone on a trip feeling like that,
0:03:45 > 0:03:48and I had a bad first week.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51I couldn't train, I was struggling to breathe,
0:03:51 > 0:03:53struggling to get anything sort of in.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56I was hyperventilating, and that's when it dawned on me,
0:03:56 > 0:04:00that A, you've got a problem, and B, you're going to have to sort it out.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03- When you say hyperventilating, what...?- I couldn't breathe.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07I was training because... I was panicky. I was anxious.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10The anxiety was hitting me. I had a lump in me throat.
0:04:10 > 0:04:15I was having bad heads. I was thinking... I was shaking. I didn't want to let go of the ball.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18There was one night I just went back to my room
0:04:18 > 0:04:22and I looked in the mirror and was thinking, "What's your problem?"
0:04:22 > 0:04:26- That's when it really dawned on me, that you've got a problem. You're not weak...- Yeah.
0:04:26 > 0:04:31There's something wrong with you and you're going to have to try and sort it out.
0:04:31 > 0:04:34- Were you sweating?- That was when depression was first mentioned to me.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37You went on probably ten tours feeling like this.
0:04:37 > 0:04:41- To get through that many... - I still don't know...
0:04:41 > 0:04:45I can't get to the answer of what actually made me feel that way.
0:04:45 > 0:04:49And I still don't. It's something I'd ask you,
0:04:49 > 0:04:55when I left in 2006, and you had to go on and play in the one-days
0:04:55 > 0:05:00and all the stuff that went on after that, I saw you on TV.
0:05:00 > 0:05:04I was looking at you and thinking, "Might be struggling there as well."
0:05:04 > 0:05:09That's something I've felt. I looked at you and I thought, "He's...
0:05:09 > 0:05:11"He's got a bit of me in him."
0:05:11 > 0:05:15It's funny, cos you say that and then the more I do,
0:05:15 > 0:05:18speaking to you, and the more I look into it,
0:05:18 > 0:05:24you actually pick things out of my career, and 2006/7 Ashes trip, for me,
0:05:24 > 0:05:28I was probably at an all-time low, both personally and professionally,
0:05:28 > 0:05:31even though, you mentioned, I was captain of England,
0:05:31 > 0:05:35financially fine, and should be, playing Australia,
0:05:35 > 0:05:41on the biggest stage of all, and for some reason, I think I did experience that.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44I didn't want to get up out of bed. I didn't want to face people.
0:05:44 > 0:05:49- You didn't want to face people? - For me, I... I'd go back to my hotel room. I couldn't switch off.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53'For Steve, this was a big step to talk about.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56'He's never spoken about any of these issues
0:05:56 > 0:05:59'whilst he was playing for England.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02'But he did to me was, he came straight back at me.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05'He was questioning my career
0:06:05 > 0:06:09'and questioning some of the things he'd seen in me, and walking away...
0:06:09 > 0:06:14'it was... I've got a few things to think about.'
0:06:19 > 0:06:22'When we found out we'd won the Ashes,
0:06:22 > 0:06:27'we went back on the field and my legs just felt like they wanted to keep running and running.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30'I didn't want to stand still. I was bouncing around.
0:06:30 > 0:06:34'It was probably a state of euphoria.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37'However, watching it back is quite surreal.
0:06:37 > 0:06:41'Even watching myself, I actually don't see that as me.
0:06:41 > 0:06:46'I see it as this big bloke who's played cricket, who's enjoying himself.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50'There's almost a complete detachment from it.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53'It's just watching a group of lads who've won the Ashes.'
0:06:53 > 0:06:58- TV:- Some of the most fantastic scenes ever seen in English cricket.
0:06:58 > 0:07:03There's a proud country out there, thrilled with its team's efforts.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06Can you imagine how those cricketers feel?!
0:07:06 > 0:07:08CHEERING
0:07:08 > 0:07:12We look at professional sports people who are winning the Ashes
0:07:12 > 0:07:16or playing international table tennis or football or rugby, or whatever,
0:07:16 > 0:07:17and we mythologise about it.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20We make the assumption that because you're successful
0:07:20 > 0:07:22and earning lots of money,
0:07:22 > 0:07:25because you are acclaimed by society,
0:07:25 > 0:07:28you are going to be living in an emotional nirvana.
0:07:28 > 0:07:32You're going to be happy, you're going to be philosophically certain,
0:07:32 > 0:07:34and everything is going well for you. That is a myth.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42Oh, well, now...
0:07:42 > 0:07:45It's 6 more.
0:07:45 > 0:07:48We're witnessing something fantastic.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52Something that everybody can identify with.
0:07:54 > 0:07:56Just thrilling sport!
0:07:58 > 0:08:02MATTHEW SYED: It's perfectly natural, isn't it, to feel good when you win
0:08:02 > 0:08:05and to feel bad and reclusive when you lose,
0:08:05 > 0:08:08but imagine when you lose, you don't just feel bad and reclusive.
0:08:08 > 0:08:12You feel terribly downcast, unhappy, depressed.
0:08:12 > 0:08:16And moreover, imagine if you win and you feel that way.
0:08:19 > 0:08:23Yeah, that happened a few times in my career.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27I remember in the West Indies, we'd won a one-day international,
0:08:27 > 0:08:30sat in the dressing room, the rest of the lads were celebrating,
0:08:30 > 0:08:34and I didn't want to do anything. I was sat in the corner, in my little space in the room,
0:08:34 > 0:08:38not wanting to get involved in the celebrations.
0:08:38 > 0:08:43And...it was just how I was feeling at the time.
0:08:43 > 0:08:47MUSIC: "You'll Never Walk Alone"
0:08:47 > 0:08:52I was 29, I was in the peak of my career. I had everything
0:08:52 > 0:08:54a young man could want, you know?
0:08:54 > 0:08:57I had the lifestyle and I'd just signed a new contract
0:08:57 > 0:08:59and I was on really good money
0:08:59 > 0:09:02and I was playing very good football at the time.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04All of a sudden, I woke up one morning
0:09:04 > 0:09:06and I just didn't feel right.
0:09:06 > 0:09:12And I was quite an outgoing guy. Quite gregarious. Loved my life.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15And all of a sudden, I became this insular sort of person I never recognised.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18And the depression...
0:09:18 > 0:09:22What I realised as I went on and learned more about it,
0:09:22 > 0:09:26it's not just a mental illness. It can affect you in the physical way as well.
0:09:26 > 0:09:29I was suffering from lack of sleep, you know?
0:09:29 > 0:09:32Sweats, shakes, lack of appetite,
0:09:32 > 0:09:36and it was maybe only two months into it I got diagnosed with having it,
0:09:36 > 0:09:39and then I was able to deal with it properly after that.
0:09:39 > 0:09:41Could you put your finger on what triggered it?
0:09:41 > 0:09:44- Was there an incident, or something had happened?- No.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47In certain circumstances, with other individuals,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50it could be a death in the family or loss of a job, anything like that,
0:09:50 > 0:09:53but my life was just running along very, very smoothly.
0:09:53 > 0:09:56I think, looking back now, it's probably a genetic thing,
0:09:56 > 0:10:00which, again, can be quite a common thing.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02It obviously jolted me.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04My life, for three months, was abject misery.
0:10:04 > 0:10:09The doctor kept Martin O'Neill up to speed with how I was feeling.
0:10:09 > 0:10:13He gave me some great advice.
0:10:13 > 0:10:16He said, "Just treat it like a hamstring strain.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20Though you weren't physically injured, treat it like an injury,
0:10:20 > 0:10:22and you know in three or four weeks' time you'll be better.
0:10:22 > 0:10:27You had to get through training and the games as best you could.
0:10:27 > 0:10:28Now you got into management.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30Do you now look for that in players?
0:10:30 > 0:10:33Is it something you're probably more sympathetic to?
0:10:33 > 0:10:37Absolutely. I am aware some players I've worked with already under me
0:10:37 > 0:10:41have suffered from it, and some of the younger players,
0:10:41 > 0:10:44believe it or not, have gone through it, as well.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47They know the door's open. They can talk about it to me any time.
0:10:47 > 0:10:51You treat it like an injury. You give them three or four weeks off.
0:10:51 > 0:10:54We had a player who had a month off with it, and we just said,
0:10:54 > 0:10:59"Come back when you're ready".
0:10:59 > 0:11:03There is that feeling of shame when you go through it, as well.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05People say, "Go and have a holiday".
0:11:05 > 0:11:08But, even if you do, you take it with you, it's inside you.
0:11:08 > 0:11:09It's in your body, it's in your mind.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17It's comforting to know there are managers out there
0:11:17 > 0:11:21like Neil Lennon, a guy who's experienced it firsthand.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23He says the door's open for any player,
0:11:23 > 0:11:27whatever age, to go in and speak to him about it.
0:11:28 > 0:11:33But I wonder what it'd be like if you played an individual sport.
0:11:33 > 0:11:34Everyone's your competitor.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36You've no-one to speak to.
0:11:36 > 0:11:38How do you cope then?
0:11:42 > 0:11:44At the time you were world number one.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46Snooker going great.
0:11:46 > 0:11:50Going from near the world number one.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52I was falling miles down the rankings,
0:11:52 > 0:11:55the worst player in the top 16, the worst player in this.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57- It was hard to take. - How far down did you get?
0:11:57 > 0:11:59I fell down to about 40-odd at one point.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01I wasn't winning a match.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04I went through the whole year and didn't win a game.
0:12:04 > 0:12:08Can you put into words what it felt like? Could you describe it?
0:12:08 > 0:12:10I never thought I had depression.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13I just went through months of doing nothing,
0:12:13 > 0:12:15just had no interest in anything.
0:12:15 > 0:12:17On a personal level, it was hard.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20It was really hard on my wife.
0:12:20 > 0:12:22She was sitting there, and I wouldn't speak to her.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26Not in a bad way, I just didn't want to talk to anybody.
0:12:26 > 0:12:29I've played in a social club on a Tuesday night,
0:12:29 > 0:12:33and when the room's dark, there's just a light on the table,
0:12:33 > 0:12:34and you're there.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37I felt pressure like I've never felt before,
0:12:37 > 0:12:40but if you're feeling down, you're at the Crucible
0:12:40 > 0:12:43and everyone's watching you, what were you feeling?
0:12:43 > 0:12:47The worst time snooker-wise, I'd been battling,
0:12:47 > 0:12:50battling and battling, and losing constantly.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52It was the tournament before the World Championships.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55That's when I decided I can't play any more.
0:12:55 > 0:12:59I was playing my match, and actually started crying.
0:12:59 > 0:13:01- During the game. - Whilst you was playing?
0:13:01 > 0:13:06During the game. I thought, this is getting... I couldn't control... I was sitting there.
0:13:06 > 0:13:10I was losing, and I thought, "My career's finished".
0:13:10 > 0:13:15I went from everywhere I wanted to be to being just finished,
0:13:15 > 0:13:19and I couldn't control, and I was crying into my towel,
0:13:19 > 0:13:21hoping nobody would see.
0:13:21 > 0:13:24Then I thought, "If I'm crying in a tournament in China,
0:13:24 > 0:13:28"what will I be like if I go to the Crucible, and the BBC,
0:13:28 > 0:13:30and all the pressure that comes with that?"
0:13:30 > 0:13:35It was a long way back from that. I was quite paranoid with depression.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39I don't know how it treats other people, but I was very paranoid.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42I thought everybody was talking about me. All the time.
0:13:42 > 0:13:45Once the medication starts to kick in...
0:13:45 > 0:13:47People think it's happy pills.
0:13:47 > 0:13:51It's nothing like that. It just makes you feel normal.
0:13:51 > 0:13:55When I don't take them, if I'm not on medication,
0:13:55 > 0:14:01that's when I start to feel sometimes as if I'm close to going that way again, so I need to go back on them.
0:14:01 > 0:14:02How do you use the pills?
0:14:02 > 0:14:04Do you start feeling bad and take them,
0:14:04 > 0:14:06or are you on them all the time?
0:14:06 > 0:14:10I am, basically. I think I'll be on them forever,
0:14:10 > 0:14:13and I'm not embarrassed to admit it.
0:14:13 > 0:14:17I've tried to come off them, and I'll gradually fall into a horrible...
0:14:17 > 0:14:22Nowhere near as bad as it was, but I know that's not right.
0:14:22 > 0:14:25I might have one day of feeling a bit down, then two, then three.
0:14:25 > 0:14:27Before you know it, it's a week,
0:14:27 > 0:14:29and I don't want to do things again,
0:14:29 > 0:14:34- so I would gladly just take them. - Do you enjoy your snooker now more than ever?- I'm back enjoying it.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37Thanks to Barry Hearn, there's a lot more tournaments...
0:14:37 > 0:14:41'After I'd spoken to Graham, I couldn't stop thinking about him.'
0:14:41 > 0:14:45This was someone still going through it, still living it.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48When he spoke about depression, it wasn't just words.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51You could see he was feeling it at the same time.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55I almost wanted to give him a big hug.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58This guy was world champion. He was the top of his field.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01And that's when it hit him.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05This is something which is serious,
0:15:05 > 0:15:07and you wouldn't wish on anyone,
0:15:07 > 0:15:10or you don't want to see anyone go through
0:15:10 > 0:15:12what Graham's been through.
0:15:30 > 0:15:32Don't forget the power in the right hand. That's good.
0:15:32 > 0:15:37When you throw that right hand,
0:15:37 > 0:15:39if you're going to put a third punch on it,
0:15:39 > 0:15:42make sure the right is the hard shot. Just touch them with the left.
0:15:42 > 0:15:46Bang! The left hook's just coming back to keep you back on balance.
0:15:53 > 0:15:58- In your career, you were a legend of boxing.- Thank you.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02At any point during your career, did it become a bit overwhelming?
0:16:02 > 0:16:06There were times, even during my professional career,
0:16:06 > 0:16:09where it all became a bit much, and of course having that
0:16:09 > 0:16:10non-political stance in Ireland,
0:16:10 > 0:16:12being an Irishman fighting
0:16:12 > 0:16:15for the British title, Catholic marrying a Protestant,
0:16:15 > 0:16:18the pressures of that outside of boxing
0:16:18 > 0:16:20was also daunting and overwhelming.
0:16:20 > 0:16:24But I was very lucky in that I had a very close family all round me,
0:16:24 > 0:16:28so I could always go and talk to them whenever I had any issues.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32But I know there are other fighters who aren't in that position,
0:16:32 > 0:16:36who don't have as close a family network as I had,
0:16:36 > 0:16:37who do need help and don't get it.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39They often need to go and say,
0:16:39 > 0:16:42"I need to talk to a counsellor, I need a bit of help here."
0:16:42 > 0:16:45But, a great majority of them don't want to do that,
0:16:45 > 0:16:47and are afraid to own up to that,
0:16:47 > 0:16:53and go into fights where they're not 100 per cent psychologically right.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56It's a very tough thing.
0:16:56 > 0:17:01You can't have this sort of softly, softly approach to everybody,
0:17:01 > 0:17:04and boxing is an unusual sport,
0:17:04 > 0:17:07a very difficult sport. But there are many cases like that.
0:17:07 > 0:17:10How would you manage it if I a young fighter you were coaching said,
0:17:10 > 0:17:13"I'm struggling." Would you mask it? Would you...?
0:17:13 > 0:17:16I would try and help him, and if it didn't work
0:17:16 > 0:17:17I'd pull him out of the fight.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20Try that again. Right upper cut. Make sure your balance is right.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23You were falling when you were sparring with me.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27We're speaking about depression. We've seen you coaching the young fighters,
0:17:27 > 0:17:30teaching them about left hooks and how to throw a punch.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33But is there anything in boxing which prepares fighters
0:17:33 > 0:17:35for that side of it?
0:17:35 > 0:17:38That's a really good point, because there isn't.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41I feel it could be incumbent on these organisations,
0:17:41 > 0:17:45whether it's Sport England, whether it's the Sports Council, to put some money into boxing.
0:17:45 > 0:17:50We all need help. It can be a complete contradiction.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54You have guys who are hard as nails,
0:17:54 > 0:17:56but are very sensitive guys,
0:17:56 > 0:17:59and they need advice and help, and they need support.
0:17:59 > 0:18:01- There's lots of that.- In my career,
0:18:01 > 0:18:07you build this persona, and whether you can live up to it, or can't is one thing.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10But when you start putting the pressure on yourself,
0:18:10 > 0:18:13I can remember 2006/7, when I had a complete shocker.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16It was hard to speak about it, even in the dressing room.
0:18:16 > 0:18:20I always seemed to be this character who was unflappable,
0:18:20 > 0:18:24however you do go back to your room every night, and whatever
0:18:24 > 0:18:29people think about who you are, at times it can be very different.
0:18:29 > 0:18:33When you switch the lights off, that's when it really happens.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37You think, "Hold on a second. Have I bitten off more than I can chew?"
0:18:37 > 0:18:40There are many incidents like that throughout every boxer
0:18:40 > 0:18:42and every cricketer's career.
0:18:42 > 0:18:47I was the same. I remember David Lloyd was my coach at Lancashire.
0:18:47 > 0:18:48When I was young he told me,
0:18:48 > 0:18:52"When you walk out to bat, put your helmet on once you get out there.
0:18:52 > 0:18:57Walk out there, have a look round. Walk out as if you own the stadium".
0:18:57 > 0:18:59So, every time I walked out to bat, I did that.
0:18:59 > 0:19:03At no point did I feel, I own that stadium.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05I used to look at the opposition.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08Now and then, I'd have a word with someone on the way out,
0:19:08 > 0:19:12the wicketkeeper, to say as if, "I'm not bothered,"
0:19:12 > 0:19:15but, walking out, I was as nervous as the next man.
0:19:15 > 0:19:17I was walking out there,
0:19:17 > 0:19:20and I didn't know what was going to happen.
0:19:20 > 0:19:22I was not in that much control.
0:19:22 > 0:19:26But I gave this front of, "Here I am. I'm here now."
0:19:26 > 0:19:30It's all about never showing fear, never showing intimidation.
0:19:30 > 0:19:31And it's...
0:19:31 > 0:19:38Every one of us. Let me tell you, there's not one fighter in the world that hasn't walked in that ring
0:19:38 > 0:19:39- and thought...- Oh, God!
0:19:39 > 0:19:43"What am I doing? Am I sure I'm doing the right thing?"
0:19:43 > 0:19:46Every fighter is in exactly the same position. No matter...
0:19:46 > 0:19:49The bravado and the cockiness and all that is a front.
0:19:50 > 0:19:55I'm a boxing fan so to go and speak to Barry for me was a thrill anyway.
0:19:55 > 0:19:59How many titles has he won, how many fights has he won?
0:19:59 > 0:20:01To listen to him speak,
0:20:01 > 0:20:06I realised that if it can affect someone like Barry McGuigan,
0:20:06 > 0:20:08then this can affect anyone.
0:20:11 > 0:20:15The England cricketer Andrew Flintoff has denied having a drink problem
0:20:15 > 0:20:19but says he feels ashamed and embarrassed by his antics in the Caribbean.
0:20:19 > 0:20:21The hero of the 2005 Ashes
0:20:21 > 0:20:24was dropped for yesterday's World Cup win over Canada
0:20:24 > 0:20:26and sacked as vice-captain of the team
0:20:26 > 0:20:29after reports of a late-night drinking session.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32Man overboard? It certainly seems that Andrew Flintoff was
0:20:32 > 0:20:34in more senses than one.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37The first England captain to be reduced to the ranks
0:20:37 > 0:20:40for his skippering of...a pedalo.
0:20:40 > 0:20:44While he might have been expected to be resting before a World Cup encounter with Canada,
0:20:44 > 0:20:47he was instead after a boozy night reportedly put into sea
0:20:47 > 0:20:50in a pedalo purloined from outside the team hotel.
0:20:50 > 0:20:54It capsized, he had to be plucked from the sea
0:20:54 > 0:20:56and ended up in much hotter water.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59A considerable fall from grace for the man who led England
0:20:59 > 0:21:02in the Ashes series against Australia.
0:21:05 > 0:21:06I've never seen it before.
0:21:06 > 0:21:11It's the first time I've seen any of the press surrounding what happened.
0:21:17 > 0:21:21I'm glad I actually didn't read them at the time it was happening.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24I was feeling so low, so bad,
0:21:24 > 0:21:30if I'd have read that at the time, it might have tipped me over the edge.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33One of the things which stuck out more than anything
0:21:33 > 0:21:36even though it's such a long time ago now,
0:21:36 > 0:21:41is the fact of the disappointment people had in me
0:21:41 > 0:21:46or the feeling I'd let people down. And that doesn't just mean my team-mates and my coach
0:21:46 > 0:21:49but you think your family are reading that,
0:21:49 > 0:21:52my mum's read it, my nan's read it.
0:21:52 > 0:21:56And...it troubles you. A feeling of embarrassment and shame.
0:22:01 > 0:22:05Do you think the media report responsibly?
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Er, not really, no.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10I don't think they should have to worry too much
0:22:10 > 0:22:11about how they report sport.
0:22:11 > 0:22:16Sport is visceral, it's raw, it's live, it's dangerous,
0:22:16 > 0:22:17it's exciting,
0:22:17 > 0:22:20the rewards are massive and the downside is you get
0:22:20 > 0:22:22occasionally a headline you don't like.
0:22:29 > 0:22:34It's a brutal relationship, I've always said that, between sportsmen and the media.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37But I don't honestly think most sports journalists or news journalists
0:22:37 > 0:22:40or editors of newspapers really cared that much
0:22:40 > 0:22:43about the sensitivities of highly-paid sportsmen.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46Our view then was that
0:22:46 > 0:22:49if you are called to play for your country at sport,
0:22:49 > 0:22:51it's such an incredible privilege and honour
0:22:51 > 0:22:55that to actually claim to be depressed because you have to stay in a five-star hotel
0:22:55 > 0:22:59while you're playing cricket for England, to me, seemed ridiculous.
0:22:59 > 0:23:04- So, was your thought that if you played sport for England, you couldn't be depressed?- Yes.
0:23:04 > 0:23:07- Clinically, you cannot be depressed? - I just couldn't grasp the concept.
0:23:07 > 0:23:11I think journalists are like jealous sportsmen.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14If you've got a journalist writing about cricket,
0:23:14 > 0:23:17- what level did he play at?- Yeah.
0:23:17 > 0:23:21I honestly think a lot of them are jealous sportsmen
0:23:21 > 0:23:24that never really done it
0:23:24 > 0:23:27and they sit up there drinking their wine and their beer
0:23:27 > 0:23:29while the game's going on.
0:23:29 > 0:23:33And I think that's very unfair but...
0:23:33 > 0:23:36No, I agree with you. I've seen it.
0:23:36 > 0:23:41And you know what? Get over it. That's the way the cookie crumbles.
0:23:41 > 0:23:44And if you don't want to do it, I'm available.
0:23:44 > 0:23:47Because I would take any crap headline in any tabloid
0:23:47 > 0:23:49to walk out to bat at Lord's.
0:23:49 > 0:23:53Or to play up front with Robin van Persie.
0:24:08 > 0:24:13Depression-wise in sport,
0:24:13 > 0:24:17there's a lot of stuff that goes around it,
0:24:17 > 0:24:21especially when you are in the media eye and being scrutinised.
0:24:21 > 0:24:25I had an incident in Dublin and when I came back,
0:24:25 > 0:24:29it just hit me that I'd let everybody down.
0:24:29 > 0:24:31I'd let myself down.
0:24:31 > 0:24:35But you can sort of stand up or you can go curl up in the corner.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38I literally took a gun up to the woods...
0:24:38 > 0:24:41- What, with the intention of firing it?- Yeah.
0:24:41 > 0:24:45How were you feeling to get to that point?
0:24:45 > 0:24:49You just feel so degraded in yourself.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53Every bit of pride and everything is out of you.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56And you're just saying, "You know what?
0:24:56 > 0:24:59"Why do these people keep having to put up with me -
0:24:59 > 0:25:02"my wife, my kids, the club, my players, you know?"
0:25:02 > 0:25:04It got to that...?
0:25:04 > 0:25:07How far do you think you were from pulling the trigger?
0:25:08 > 0:25:13Well, I thought, "Is this going to make it worse?"
0:25:13 > 0:25:18You know, leave the family in this state of shock.
0:25:18 > 0:25:21So I got out of it
0:25:21 > 0:25:25whereas I didn't want to be in a selfish depression, you know?
0:25:28 > 0:25:31Interestingly, since I left, I've learned a lot more about it.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33In what way?
0:25:33 > 0:25:35Well, by getting to know people like you
0:25:35 > 0:25:39and seeing what you've been through when you've had these long-term injuries and stuff.
0:25:39 > 0:25:41And realising that you are a human being.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44That although you're the great Freddie Flintoff
0:25:44 > 0:25:46and this great charismatic figure,
0:25:46 > 0:25:48when it's not at centre stage and you can't play
0:25:48 > 0:25:51and you're worried about the future of your career,
0:25:51 > 0:25:54actually you are suffering a genuine form of depression.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56I remember being startled when I was told
0:25:56 > 0:25:58that there are more suicides for ex-cricketers
0:25:58 > 0:26:00than for any other sport in Britain.
0:26:00 > 0:26:03I found that really harrowing to hear that,
0:26:03 > 0:26:06to find out that so many cricketers had taken their own lives.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09Did anyone in the dressing rooms talk about it? Was it identified?
0:26:09 > 0:26:12- Cos in the '80s and the '90s... - Oh, it's changed.
0:26:12 > 0:26:16..there was probably a huge taboo surrounding it, more so than what there is now.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19Well, I think it was something that was not recognised.
0:26:19 > 0:26:21Without a shadow of a doubt, it was not recognised.
0:26:21 > 0:26:25But looking back now, I guarantee there's a lot of lads there
0:26:25 > 0:26:28that if you sat them down and said, "Are you OK?"...
0:26:28 > 0:26:32Do you not think you could have gone to the manager, or mentioned it?
0:26:32 > 0:26:34They're not trained in that stuff.
0:26:34 > 0:26:36I don't think they're trained in that stuff. Not at all.
0:26:36 > 0:26:40When I played, there was no-one to talk to. This is the trouble.
0:26:40 > 0:26:43What would have happened in the dressing room if someone had said...?
0:26:43 > 0:26:45- Well, this is the thing. - In all honesty.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48Well, I would say it was like this...
0:26:48 > 0:26:51If you would've turned round and said...
0:26:51 > 0:26:56Imagine, you're bottom of the league and one of the lads turns round and says, "Oh, I've got depression."
0:26:56 > 0:27:00- You'd smack him round the side of the head, wouldn't you, and say... - Pull yourself together.
0:27:00 > 0:27:05- Pull yourself together, curtains. - That's the old world, isn't it? Depression wasn't there.
0:27:05 > 0:27:09- Or nobody wanted to acknowledge it. - I think it was ignored. Yeah.
0:27:09 > 0:27:10I think it was ignored.
0:27:10 > 0:27:13I think it would have been taken as a weakness.
0:27:13 > 0:27:15Especially if you're in the trenches...
0:27:15 > 0:27:19- And we always used to say, "Who would you want in your trenches?" - Vinnie, I want Vinnie, yeah.
0:27:19 > 0:27:23All of a sudden, I turn round and say to my team, "I've got depression."
0:27:23 > 0:27:26I felt that a little bit because at certain points of my career
0:27:26 > 0:27:30I got so low with some of the losses and I was seen in the dressing room
0:27:30 > 0:27:32as this fella who will drag everyone with them.
0:27:32 > 0:27:34And I can totally understand.
0:27:34 > 0:27:37- If I had said, "Look, lads, I'm really struggling..."- I've gone.
0:27:37 > 0:27:41..that would've sent shockwaves through the dressing room. I felt I couldn't.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44You'd have probably got slaughtered in the media as well.
0:27:44 > 0:27:47And the media is definitely now treating depression
0:27:47 > 0:27:51and issues like that in a much more responsible way than it ever did
0:27:51 > 0:27:53when I was involved in the newspaper game.
0:27:53 > 0:27:57Because then it all seemed something not to be taken too seriously.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00- I think the press have grown up a bit. - I remember with Steve Harmison.
0:28:00 > 0:28:03I've toured with him, he's one of my best mates.
0:28:03 > 0:28:06And I sat next to him and I watched for ten years, this lad go on tour,
0:28:06 > 0:28:08and he was getting a kicking in the press
0:28:08 > 0:28:10and he just suffered in silence.
0:28:10 > 0:28:14They were writing that "he was homesick, he's injured, he's not fit, he wants to go home."
0:28:14 > 0:28:17However, it was far deeper than that. I got frustrated with you
0:28:17 > 0:28:19- because you had a bit of a pop at one point.- I did.
0:28:19 > 0:28:25And it was either he has to come out or people should take the time
0:28:25 > 0:28:28to investigate what is wrong with him.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31But it's easy to jump into "Steve's homesick".
0:28:31 > 0:28:34I would throw it back at you. You guys knew he had depression.
0:28:34 > 0:28:39If what you're saying it was right and it was proper, serious, clinical depression,
0:28:39 > 0:28:42what the hell was he doing playing professional sport,
0:28:42 > 0:28:45where every moment that he's on that field,
0:28:45 > 0:28:48he's susceptible to violent headlines in newspapers
0:28:48 > 0:28:50likely to make the depression worse?
0:28:50 > 0:28:53So, if it's a proper depression, yank him out of the fire,
0:28:53 > 0:28:56take him out of that fire. That is the responsible thing to do.
0:28:56 > 0:29:00I don't think you can blame the media, who are not as well informed.
0:29:00 > 0:29:03You're saying the responsibility lies with the medical team?
0:29:03 > 0:29:06- Well, you were his captain.- Yeah.
0:29:06 > 0:29:09- Leadership sometimes... I'm throwing it back at you.- Fine.
0:29:09 > 0:29:11It's a reasonable question.
0:29:11 > 0:29:16- Did you understand depression at the time?- No, that's one of the reasons I'm doing this.
0:29:16 > 0:29:18I've seen my mate go through it.
0:29:18 > 0:29:21I've seen him battle and come through and have some good times.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25Is it true that you and I, now being so much better informed about him,
0:29:25 > 0:29:28and depression, would probably both make different decisions?
0:29:28 > 0:29:33I think it's not just you and I, it's the wider world. It's...
0:29:33 > 0:29:37'I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't expecting Piers to turn the tables
0:29:37 > 0:29:39'and point the finger at me.
0:29:41 > 0:29:45'I've been thinking about it and I've been racking my brains
0:29:45 > 0:29:48'about what more I could have done for Steven.
0:29:48 > 0:29:52'Maybe that was one of my failings as a captain -
0:29:52 > 0:29:55'I haven't got the answers. I don't know.
0:29:57 > 0:30:01'Also, at the time, I think I was dealing with my own emotions,
0:30:01 > 0:30:04'I was at a low, personally.
0:30:04 > 0:30:07'Maybe not fully aware of what other people were going through.
0:30:07 > 0:30:10'I was battling a little bit myself.'
0:30:22 > 0:30:23BELL RINGS
0:30:23 > 0:30:26CHEERING
0:30:28 > 0:30:31- How are you, Fred? Are you all right?- Good, mate.
0:30:31 > 0:30:34- Nice here, isn't it? - It's the heartbreak hotel.
0:30:34 > 0:30:37- Nice to see you. How's the family? Good?- Yeah, good.
0:30:37 > 0:30:39Brilliant, mate. Come in.
0:30:45 > 0:30:48Walking to the ring, in my mind I was thinking,
0:30:48 > 0:30:51I was thinking, "You're going to get beat here. You're going to get beat."
0:30:51 > 0:30:54Walking to the ring before I fought Manny Pacquiao,
0:30:54 > 0:30:56I thought, "I'm going to get beat. I've peaked too soon."
0:30:56 > 0:30:59"If me sparring partners are giving me a dusting,
0:30:59 > 0:31:00"what's going to happen here tonight?"
0:31:00 > 0:31:03The bell went for the first round and I've always been aggressive
0:31:03 > 0:31:06and reckless, but I was overly reckless.
0:31:06 > 0:31:08I was fighting as if, "Please, just get one good shot in
0:31:08 > 0:31:12"or one good body shot in and it'll all be over."
0:31:12 > 0:31:15I went in reckless and as you know what happened,
0:31:15 > 0:31:17he flattened me in two rounds.
0:31:25 > 0:31:29I was devastated. I felt like hanging my head in shame.
0:31:29 > 0:31:31I cried and cried and cried.
0:31:31 > 0:31:35It took me four months to actually watch the tape of the Pacquiao fight.
0:31:37 > 0:31:40The pressure, as far back as... Even before the first defeat,
0:31:40 > 0:31:43it niggles at you because you're under so much pressure,
0:31:43 > 0:31:47but then, realising that my days were numbered, I had to retire.
0:31:47 > 0:31:51- It was a gradual process.- Do you think it was DURING your career?
0:31:51 > 0:31:53I think it was during my career. Absolutely.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56If you hadn't been a boxer, you would have experienced it,
0:31:56 > 0:31:59or do you think it was triggered by boxing?
0:31:59 > 0:32:01I think it was triggered by boxing.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04Me, personally, I was such a proud fighter.
0:32:04 > 0:32:07I was such a proud man. I was able to beat people
0:32:07 > 0:32:10that were better than me because I had such a big heart,
0:32:10 > 0:32:12I could overwhelm fighters.
0:32:12 > 0:32:16To lose in the manner in which I did, getting knocked out was,
0:32:16 > 0:32:19me being such a proud man, to have someone knock me out,
0:32:19 > 0:32:24it was hard to come to terms with. I really went from bad to worse.
0:32:24 > 0:32:26Along with that, I started drinking a bit more
0:32:26 > 0:32:28than what I would normally do.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31As you know, if you're suffering from depression,
0:32:31 > 0:32:34and then you add drink to it, then it's like a runaway train.
0:32:34 > 0:32:36That was something I did. When I was bad,
0:32:36 > 0:32:39I'd have a drink. It was all right, to begin with, then I'd have more...
0:32:39 > 0:32:43I'd go from, cheerful and feeling, "That's more like it,"
0:32:43 > 0:32:45but then when you have that little bit more,
0:32:45 > 0:32:49at the end of the night, you're sat in the corner of the pub, sobbing.
0:32:49 > 0:32:51You think, "Oh, my word!"
0:32:51 > 0:32:54When you get up in the morning, you feel really bad,
0:32:54 > 0:32:56you remember what you did the night before -
0:32:56 > 0:33:00"What was I doing? I was crying in front of my pals, I was going on and I was moaning..."
0:33:00 > 0:33:03I had to be put in the taxi and stuff like that.
0:33:03 > 0:33:06You think, "Oh, what's up with me?"
0:33:14 > 0:33:17I suffered from depression after the Mayweather fight.
0:33:17 > 0:33:20I had three fights from there on in, with depression.
0:33:20 > 0:33:22Was it an effort to get in the ring?
0:33:22 > 0:33:24It was, really.
0:33:24 > 0:33:28It's very, very hard for, you know, a man,
0:33:28 > 0:33:32especially a boxer, to go to someone, "I'm struggling, I need help."
0:33:32 > 0:33:34It's tough.
0:33:34 > 0:33:38In 2006, I was in Australia. I was captain of England.
0:33:38 > 0:33:41We'd been beaten 3-0 by Christmas.
0:33:41 > 0:33:43We'd lost the Ashes.
0:33:43 > 0:33:45Christmas is meant to be a nice time.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48I had a few drinks with my dad on Christmas Eve.
0:33:48 > 0:33:50As he was going, we got into a bit of a chat
0:33:50 > 0:33:53and broke down crying.
0:33:53 > 0:33:56I started saying, "I'm sorry I've let you down.
0:33:56 > 0:33:57"I've tried me best."
0:33:57 > 0:34:01I was in floods of tears saying, "Dad, I've really tried my best.
0:34:01 > 0:34:03"I can't do any more than what I'm doing."
0:34:03 > 0:34:05Then my dad started crying.
0:34:05 > 0:34:08I don't think from that point,
0:34:08 > 0:34:11I never got back to the player I was.
0:34:11 > 0:34:162006 knocked me so much, it was always going to be impossible.
0:34:16 > 0:34:19I dusted myself down and came back, to a degree,
0:34:19 > 0:34:21but never the same sort of player.
0:34:21 > 0:34:26When you got those gloves and had your first professional fight, did you think you'd have this?
0:34:26 > 0:34:30My trainer got them just in case, cos he had a feeling
0:34:30 > 0:34:33that I was going to go on and do well,
0:34:33 > 0:34:35obviously not to the extent that I went on to do.
0:34:35 > 0:34:39But he had a sneaky feeling so he kept the gloves
0:34:39 > 0:34:42and they're the ones for the first ones.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45That first fight led to this type of stuff.
0:34:45 > 0:34:47There's the IBF belt.
0:34:47 > 0:34:51I won the IBF light-welterweight title twice.
0:34:51 > 0:34:55I won the WBA light-welterweight title,
0:34:55 > 0:34:56the WBA welterweight title...
0:34:56 > 0:34:59'It was interesting talking to Ricky
0:34:59 > 0:35:03'because the two of us have got a similar public persona -
0:35:03 > 0:35:06'happy-go-lucky, enjoy a pint, play sport just for the sheer fun of it.
0:35:09 > 0:35:11'It seems that wasn't necessarily the case.
0:35:14 > 0:35:16'Having spoken to Ricky, someone I know,
0:35:16 > 0:35:20'someone I respect and was a fan of, listening to him talk more openly,
0:35:20 > 0:35:23'and candidly about some of his feelings,
0:35:23 > 0:35:26'address some of these areas in his life,
0:35:26 > 0:35:32'I think it's making me talk more openly about my feelings.
0:35:32 > 0:35:35'And... I actually feel it's good to do.'
0:35:46 > 0:35:48Through my career, I found it hard.
0:35:48 > 0:35:51I didn't want anybody thinking that there was anything
0:35:51 > 0:35:55which could be got at. Sports psychology was one of them things.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59It was like owning up to not being that confident person.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02Over the past few years, it's been identified as a key way
0:36:02 > 0:36:04for athletes to get better.
0:36:04 > 0:36:06What's happened now is that people fully appreciate
0:36:06 > 0:36:09the importance of the mind in sport.
0:36:09 > 0:36:13Because of that importance, people acknowledge
0:36:13 > 0:36:16that we have to give it due attention and incorporate it
0:36:16 > 0:36:19into our training and preparation programmes.
0:36:19 > 0:36:22That's accepted now and it's part and parcel of what elite athletes do.
0:36:22 > 0:36:25Do you think professional sport, in that environment,
0:36:25 > 0:36:28can contribute towards depression?
0:36:28 > 0:36:33I don't think the world of sport CAUSES depression,
0:36:33 > 0:36:36but it hasn't surprised me in recent years
0:36:36 > 0:36:38that we're starting to see and hear
0:36:38 > 0:36:42more examples of elite athletes experiencing depression.
0:36:42 > 0:36:46As you know from the population statistics,
0:36:46 > 0:36:5010% of the UK population in any given year,
0:36:50 > 0:36:55are liable to experience some form of anxiety or depression.
0:37:02 > 0:37:04- Playing against someone...- Yeah.
0:37:04 > 0:37:05Never. Oh, no...
0:37:05 > 0:37:08But you as a master of getting in people's heads.
0:37:08 > 0:37:11I've played against you, either at the other end when
0:37:11 > 0:37:13you've called Ian Bell the Sherminator,
0:37:13 > 0:37:15you had a pop at Colly for his MBE and you did all that.
0:37:15 > 0:37:19It was hard enough anyway, but if someone came into bat
0:37:19 > 0:37:22and they had a history, how would you approach that?
0:37:22 > 0:37:25- Would you say anything? - Unless you're an absolute idiot,
0:37:25 > 0:37:29you're not worth knowing anyway, that you're going to take the mickey,
0:37:29 > 0:37:31those blokes will get beaten up on anyway.
0:37:31 > 0:37:34I don't think it's one of those things you use as a bit of sledging.
0:37:34 > 0:37:37It's more of a sympathetic because it's obviously
0:37:37 > 0:37:39someone's really struggling.
0:37:39 > 0:37:42No matter what the sport is, it's like when someone gets hit
0:37:42 > 0:37:45when you're playing cricket - you don't want to see them get hit.
0:37:45 > 0:37:49You don't want to see someone struggling with their life
0:37:49 > 0:37:53and it affecting their life, not just their sport, their family and so on.
0:37:54 > 0:37:58You could say that the world of high-performance sport
0:37:58 > 0:38:03is not a particularly healthy one in the sense that, as you say,
0:38:03 > 0:38:06it's train, play, travel, train, play, travel.
0:38:06 > 0:38:09You're focussed, almost to the point of being obsessed
0:38:09 > 0:38:13about what you do, which is sport.
0:38:13 > 0:38:15That's pretty much all you do in life.
0:38:15 > 0:38:19And therefore, you get the total sense
0:38:19 > 0:38:22of personal identity from your sport.
0:38:22 > 0:38:24When things are going well,
0:38:24 > 0:38:28that's OK. But when things start to go not so well,
0:38:28 > 0:38:31then that's a challenge to your personal identity.
0:38:31 > 0:38:33"Who am I? What am I"
0:38:33 > 0:38:35INDISTINCT CHATTER
0:38:35 > 0:38:37Let's get down...
0:38:44 > 0:38:46You've been with me from day one of my career.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49At what point do you think
0:38:49 > 0:38:51what you saw in me,
0:38:51 > 0:38:53was me at my lowest?
0:38:53 > 0:38:56Well, you arrived in Sydney and...
0:38:56 > 0:38:58- 2007, when I was captain.- Yeah.
0:38:58 > 0:39:01..I was dismayed to see you.
0:39:01 > 0:39:03I didn't see Fred, I saw a lad
0:39:03 > 0:39:06that obviously had the worries of the world on his shoulders.
0:39:06 > 0:39:08You were gaunt,
0:39:08 > 0:39:10you had hollow eyes
0:39:10 > 0:39:12and you looked haunted.
0:39:12 > 0:39:16It was hard to see somebody that two months earlier had looked...
0:39:16 > 0:39:17like Fred.
0:39:20 > 0:39:24You were never somebody that wanted to get back to your room
0:39:24 > 0:39:27and hide away, and that's what it had become.
0:39:28 > 0:39:32I'll never forget in Sydney, when we played that test and I captained it,
0:39:32 > 0:39:35the worst thing was, after the game I had to make a speech.
0:39:35 > 0:39:39It was the worst place for me then, cos all I wanted to do was hide away
0:39:39 > 0:39:42but I had 25,000 eyes on me, I had everyone looking at me.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45- You'd been flogged and you had to stand there.- Yeah.
0:39:45 > 0:39:48Nothing else you could do. You stood like a man and said what you had to,
0:39:48 > 0:39:51but when you go back to your room, that makes it worse.
0:39:51 > 0:39:54You had some days off and there was some drinking going on
0:39:54 > 0:39:57and again, that's just a trait of hiding away.
0:39:57 > 0:40:01Drinking to change how I felt, to escape from what was happening.
0:40:01 > 0:40:05I was completely random. I didn't know what I was doing.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08And then, all I was thinking about on the field was retiring.
0:40:08 > 0:40:12I was thinking, "I've had enough of this, I want to retire. I'm done."
0:40:12 > 0:40:15I carried on thinking that all the way through the World Cup.
0:40:15 > 0:40:17And having played with me...
0:40:17 > 0:40:18HE YELLS
0:40:18 > 0:40:20When I took wickets, I used to enjoy celebrating.
0:40:20 > 0:40:23- It's no secret.- Natural.
0:40:23 > 0:40:26But I just used to stand there.
0:40:26 > 0:40:28And I couldn't muster any energy do anything.
0:40:28 > 0:40:31I was bowling slower than what I probably did.
0:40:31 > 0:40:33I didn't understand what was happening to me,
0:40:33 > 0:40:36And they organised... I went to see the doctor.
0:40:36 > 0:40:39I got tested for diabetes, I got tested for everything,
0:40:39 > 0:40:42so the doctors would tell me, "You're ill.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45"There's something clinically, physically wrong with you."
0:40:45 > 0:40:48Someone should have spotted classic traits of depression.
0:40:48 > 0:40:51It didn't happen with Steve Harmison for years.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53If it was critical depression,
0:40:53 > 0:40:56then... I can see it was. I can see it was.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59Looking back now, having been through what I've been through,
0:40:59 > 0:41:02I can see that you were clearly depressed.
0:41:02 > 0:41:05You don't celebrate wickets, cos your emotions have gone.
0:41:05 > 0:41:08Lethargy - you've no energy. You can't get up for anything.
0:41:08 > 0:41:13- All classic things, and the drink just fuels that, if you like.- Yeah.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16So you're bad, therefore you have a drink
0:41:16 > 0:41:19and you wake up even worse.
0:41:19 > 0:41:21- Yeah, I...- And it's...
0:41:21 > 0:41:24That's a bad road you went down.
0:41:26 > 0:41:28But...
0:41:28 > 0:41:30- Somebody should have told you.- Yeah.
0:41:33 > 0:41:35Neil probably knows me as well as anyone.
0:41:35 > 0:41:38He's been there all the way through my professional career
0:41:38 > 0:41:40and seen every emotion I've been through
0:41:40 > 0:41:43and he's been through depression himself
0:41:43 > 0:41:47so to turn around and say them things to me...
0:41:48 > 0:41:51..in some ways it's a surprise, but in some ways it's not.
0:41:53 > 0:41:56I think in a lot of ways, I was lucky
0:41:56 > 0:41:58because...I wasn't in a great place,
0:41:58 > 0:42:02but I never got as bad as some of the people we've spoken to.
0:42:02 > 0:42:06And...I managed to come out the other side of it.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09I'd hate to think what it must be like
0:42:09 > 0:42:13to feel even worse, like some of these guys have done.
0:42:16 > 0:42:20- I couldn't hit him. - You couldn't hit him?
0:42:20 > 0:42:23- When I played against him, when I used to practise.- OK.
0:42:23 > 0:42:25- So I've no chance now. - Not when the pressure's on.
0:42:25 > 0:42:28I'm going to run at him. Run at him. First bowl, come on.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35Watch it, fella, watch it.
0:42:35 > 0:42:38Come on, Murali! Come on, boy.
0:42:40 > 0:42:42FREDDIE LAUGHS
0:42:47 > 0:42:49Come on, Murali, come on, boy!
0:42:59 > 0:43:00Yes!
0:43:02 > 0:43:03CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
0:43:08 > 0:43:12You properly wouldn't necessarily associate them feelings with me.
0:43:12 > 0:43:15People would probably think, "Ah, he's a bit of a laugh,
0:43:15 > 0:43:17"bit of fun, he'll just laugh it off."
0:43:17 > 0:43:20But it was definitely not the case.
0:43:20 > 0:43:23APPLAUSE
0:43:38 > 0:43:40So far, I've been chatting to people
0:43:40 > 0:43:43about sport being one of the causes of depression,
0:43:43 > 0:43:46playing at the highest level.
0:43:46 > 0:43:48But I wanted to come to Arsenal and see a scheme
0:43:48 > 0:43:50where they use sport to tackle it.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54It's a real paradox in the fact that
0:43:54 > 0:43:57they're using sport, in a way, to combat it.
0:43:59 > 0:44:03I'm nervous about coming here, cos sport's been good to me.
0:44:03 > 0:44:07I've experienced some amazing things through playing cricket
0:44:07 > 0:44:11and I don't want to turn up here and have them look at me and think,
0:44:11 > 0:44:12"Listen to this fella here,
0:44:12 > 0:44:16"just whingeing on about something we'd love to be doing.
0:44:16 > 0:44:18I suppose that's why, in some ways,
0:44:18 > 0:44:21people have found it hard to speak about in the past
0:44:21 > 0:44:24so it'll be interesting to see how they react to us.
0:44:25 > 0:44:27Here he is, Henry.
0:44:27 > 0:44:31I was diagnosed properly when I was about ten or 11, with depression
0:44:31 > 0:44:35and I've always been depressed, with suicidal thoughts and stuff.
0:44:35 > 0:44:38How did it feel? How did it impact on your life?
0:44:38 > 0:44:41I didn't really understand it when I was little.
0:44:41 > 0:44:43I don't know, it didn't make much sense.
0:44:43 > 0:44:46But now I've got older, I can understand and recall back on stuff,
0:44:46 > 0:44:49it made my life pretty miserable.
0:44:49 > 0:44:52I was always feeling very alone most of the time,
0:44:52 > 0:44:54didn't want to get out of bed.
0:44:54 > 0:44:56I'd spend days in bed without getting out at all,
0:44:56 > 0:44:59literally just go to the loo and then back into bed.
0:44:59 > 0:45:02I didn't want to do nothing, didn't feel motivated to do anything,
0:45:02 > 0:45:04just hated being here, really.
0:45:04 > 0:45:05One more!
0:45:08 > 0:45:11Running around for two hours, you get your endorphins running.
0:45:11 > 0:45:13You feel great, and it's not just the football,
0:45:13 > 0:45:15it's the friends you make afterwards.
0:45:15 > 0:45:18It's about social inclusion, and I can honestly say
0:45:18 > 0:45:22that these people on this project
0:45:22 > 0:45:24are some of my closest friends now.
0:45:24 > 0:45:25Watch him, watch him!
0:45:25 > 0:45:28My depression's just gone - not gone, it's still there,
0:45:28 > 0:45:31but it's not as bad since I've been coming to the project.
0:45:31 > 0:45:33It's been great and it brought me out.
0:45:33 > 0:45:36Before I came, I wasn't doing any work or anything.
0:45:36 > 0:45:39I was doing a bit of voluntary work here and there,
0:45:39 > 0:45:42but this gave me the confidence to get the work.
0:45:44 > 0:45:49Does it help the likes of yourself when football stars talk about it
0:45:49 > 0:45:51or cricketers and people come out,
0:45:51 > 0:45:53does it make you feel, "It's not just me"?
0:45:53 > 0:45:56It's nice to know there's other people out there suffering.
0:45:56 > 0:45:59- I know that sounds weird... - No, I understand, yeah.
0:45:59 > 0:46:02..but there's other people you know suffer with it. You're not alone.
0:46:02 > 0:46:04So that does make sense,
0:46:04 > 0:46:07but I personally would say that they're kind of different,
0:46:07 > 0:46:09the depressions with celebrities
0:46:09 > 0:46:13and what I'd say are normal people that aren't celebrities,
0:46:13 > 0:46:15cos they've a lot of extra added pressures.
0:46:15 > 0:46:19When we're ill, we can go to the doctor and say this, this and that,
0:46:19 > 0:46:21and try and just relax,
0:46:21 > 0:46:24go to hospital, to day centres, come to projects like this,
0:46:24 > 0:46:26but because they're in the public eye
0:46:26 > 0:46:29it's a bit more difficult for them to get the help they need
0:46:29 > 0:46:31- because it's going to be in the papers.- Yeah.
0:46:31 > 0:46:34So they don't really get a break from it.
0:46:35 > 0:46:37Yes!
0:46:37 > 0:46:38Oh!
0:46:38 > 0:46:40CLAPPING
0:46:44 > 0:46:48'Watching and seeing it, it's almost taking sport back to basics,
0:46:48 > 0:46:50'taking it back to its purest form, which is to be enjoyed.
0:46:50 > 0:46:54'And that's the reason we all got into it in the first place.'
0:46:54 > 0:46:56Man of the match, yeah?
0:46:56 > 0:46:57Man of the match.
0:46:57 > 0:47:00'So I can understand why it's working.'
0:47:11 > 0:47:15I think with meeting the people I have done, and chatting to them,
0:47:15 > 0:47:17it has helped me tackle
0:47:17 > 0:47:20some of the trickier times through my career and my life.
0:47:20 > 0:47:25A lot of the disappointments I had as a player, I've tried to forget
0:47:25 > 0:47:29and probably in some ways bury my head in the sand a little bit,
0:47:29 > 0:47:33but being in front of people, I think, has helped me
0:47:33 > 0:47:37tackle some of the things that have happened, square on.
0:47:39 > 0:47:43I live with my insecurities and my doubts, like everybody else.
0:47:45 > 0:47:48I think moving forward,
0:47:48 > 0:47:50I can let go a little bit.
0:47:50 > 0:47:53I don't want to have to pretend to be something I'm not
0:47:53 > 0:47:58nor do I want to play up to what everybody wants from me.
0:47:58 > 0:48:01I think now it's just time for me to be myself.
0:48:18 > 0:48:21Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd
0:48:21 > 0:48:24E-mail subtitling@bbc.co.uk