0:00:02 > 0:00:05This programme contains strong language.
0:00:05 > 0:00:09..a charge of racially-abusing a fellow player.
0:00:09 > 0:00:13In February, John Terry was stripped of the England captaincy
0:00:13 > 0:00:17after being charged with racially abusing an opponent on the pitch.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21Although later cleared of this charge by a court,
0:00:21 > 0:00:25that wasn't English football's only racism allegation last season.
0:00:26 > 0:00:30Luis Suarez was banned by the Football Association
0:00:30 > 0:00:31for racially-abusing another player.
0:00:33 > 0:00:37I'm Clarke Carlisle,
0:00:37 > 0:00:41and I have been a professional footballer for 16 years.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46'I'm also the chairman of the Players' Union.'
0:00:46 > 0:00:49Nobody should be abused in their workplace.
0:00:49 > 0:00:53'Last season, I felt ashamed of my industry.'
0:00:53 > 0:00:56I thought we had done so much to eradicate racism from the sport,
0:00:56 > 0:01:00but it's like, "What the hell is going on?"
0:01:01 > 0:01:05"Is there actually a problem with racism in our game?"
0:01:08 > 0:01:11So I went on a journey to find out if football is racist.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13I talk to some big names in the game.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19I have had all sorts - "Hang yourself", "Go back to Africa".
0:01:19 > 0:01:21"Sand nigger". "Coon". "Wog".
0:01:21 > 0:01:24To me, racism is racism. Simple as that.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28'I came across problems at the bottom, and top, of football.'
0:01:28 > 0:01:32Everyone says he will not make it cos you're brown.
0:01:33 > 0:01:36- I think a white manager is given longer when you get a job.- Right.
0:01:36 > 0:01:37Longer to fail.
0:01:38 > 0:01:44'I travelled overseas and witnessed stuff I'd never seen before.'
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Look at this - no-one will report them for chanting here.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50'But the biggest revelation for me was on my own doorstep.'
0:01:51 > 0:01:56The abuse was all around you, and nobody did a thing.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58Nobody did a thing.
0:02:02 > 0:02:05I am learning every day. Every person I talk to
0:02:05 > 0:02:08is opening my eyes, opening my mind
0:02:08 > 0:02:13to a completely different side of life.
0:02:28 > 0:02:30I've been playing football for nearly 20 years now.
0:02:30 > 0:02:34I've played across all four top divisions in England,
0:02:34 > 0:02:37and I can honestly say the colour of my skin
0:02:37 > 0:02:40has never been a hindrance to me.
0:02:40 > 0:02:42I have never experienced any form of racism.
0:02:42 > 0:02:47I thought we have done so much to eradicate racism from the sport,
0:02:47 > 0:02:53but the Luis Suarez incident and the allegation against John Terry,
0:02:53 > 0:02:57it's kind of like, "What the hell's going on?
0:02:57 > 0:03:01"Is there a problem with racism in our game?"
0:03:14 > 0:03:18'My children are too young to have heard of racism.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22'But I've never even discussed race at home.'
0:03:22 > 0:03:25It hasn't been prevalent for us, has it?
0:03:25 > 0:03:30No, we don't talk about it that much but our children are mixed-race.
0:03:30 > 0:03:33I remember a friend asking if there were any
0:03:33 > 0:03:36mixed-race people in their school, which took me aback.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39because I don't think of them as mixed-race, white or anything.
0:03:39 > 0:03:41They're just my babies.
0:03:41 > 0:03:45I don't like labelling them like that.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48Their mixed-race is Lancashire versus Yorkshire.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50THEY LAUGH
0:03:51 > 0:03:53That's exactly it, and that is how I want to be.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55I don't want it to be an issue.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57I don't think it's an issue.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00They're just beautiful, or whatever.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03'My job means I am often away from my home in Yorkshire.
0:04:08 > 0:04:11'I'm currently playing for Northampton Town.
0:04:11 > 0:04:13'in the English Fourth Division.'
0:04:13 > 0:04:17I have been fortunate enough to play across all four divisions now.
0:04:17 > 0:04:22As chairman of the Players' Union, I think that's fantastic,
0:04:22 > 0:04:27because I can have an empathy across every level.
0:04:29 > 0:04:31'I'm trying to find out
0:04:31 > 0:04:33'if my profession has serious problems with racism.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39'First stop is my team-mates.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43'I've never suffered any racism in the game, so am I the odd one out?'
0:04:50 > 0:04:55Talk to me - have you experienced racism in your careers?
0:04:56 > 0:04:58I don't know what it is, but players-wise,
0:04:58 > 0:05:01I have never had any problems. It's the fans, once.
0:05:01 > 0:05:04I heard a comment in the crowd. I was only about 18.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06Something I heard.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10I spoke to the referee, and he wasn't too fussed at the time.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13I don't know if now if you were to mention anything to the referee,
0:05:13 > 0:05:17if they would react. I don't think at our level they would be overly keen.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20When I was younger, I signed for a Lithuanian club
0:05:20 > 0:05:23so I experienced racism to the highest degree.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26My first game, the chanting was, "Zigga, zigga, zigga,
0:05:26 > 0:05:28"shoot the fucking nigger".
0:05:28 > 0:05:32Here, I signed for Northampton.
0:05:32 > 0:05:36When I played for Nottingham Forest, they had a black back four
0:05:36 > 0:05:39and their left-back came up to me
0:05:39 > 0:05:42and said, "He's called me a black so-and-so,
0:05:42 > 0:05:44"and I need to sort him out".
0:05:44 > 0:05:47As I was going in, the striker said,
0:05:47 > 0:05:50"I did say it, but it was the heat of the moment
0:05:50 > 0:05:53"and I am apologising to you, because I have respect for you".
0:05:53 > 0:05:56I said, "I don't want to catch you saying that again".
0:05:56 > 0:05:58If a player was racist himself, he wouldn't get away with it
0:05:58 > 0:06:00in the changing room these days
0:06:00 > 0:06:03because his team-mates wouldn't allow it.
0:06:03 > 0:06:05You would get told.
0:06:07 > 0:06:10It was interesting that the team-mates I spoke to who were black
0:06:10 > 0:06:13both had personal experiences of racism within the game,
0:06:13 > 0:06:15which in itself says something.
0:06:15 > 0:06:20If my experiences have been the exception, I've been fortunate.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23'All good dressing rooms in my career
0:06:23 > 0:06:26'have been built around a strong bond between team-mates,
0:06:26 > 0:06:29'but last season, club loyalties
0:06:29 > 0:06:31'and the issue of racism came head-to-head.'
0:06:35 > 0:06:38When John Terry and Luis Suarez
0:06:38 > 0:06:40were accused of racially-abusing opponents,
0:06:40 > 0:06:43both clubs supported their players very publicly.
0:06:47 > 0:06:50Before Terry was cleared in court, the then-Chelsea manager,
0:06:50 > 0:06:55Andre Villas-Boas gave immediate backing to his captain.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58I'm fully backing John.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01It is just a misunderstanding, blown out of proportion.
0:07:03 > 0:07:06More controversially, the Liverpool team
0:07:06 > 0:07:10put on Luis Suarez tee-shirts after their team-mate was found guilty,
0:07:10 > 0:07:14and banned by the Football Association for eight matches.
0:07:16 > 0:07:20When he returned to the pitch, Kenny Dalglish, at the time Liverpool manager,
0:07:20 > 0:07:23again insisted his man had been unfairly treated.
0:07:24 > 0:07:28I'm delighted he is back playing, he should never have been away.
0:07:34 > 0:07:38'I want to find out how Liverpool supporters have been influenced
0:07:38 > 0:07:41'by their club's strong defence of Luis Suarez.'
0:07:41 > 0:07:42How you doing, mate?
0:07:42 > 0:07:45It's been a while, hasn't it?
0:07:45 > 0:07:48'I'm off back to one of my old clubs, Queens Park Rangers,
0:07:48 > 0:07:50'where Liverpool are playing.'
0:07:50 > 0:07:52How you doing?
0:07:52 > 0:07:54I see you everywhere!
0:07:54 > 0:07:56- Thank you.- No worries.
0:08:03 > 0:08:07'From the off, Liverpool supporters get behind their striker.'
0:08:12 > 0:08:14THEY CHANT
0:08:14 > 0:08:17ALL: Luis Suarez!
0:08:19 > 0:08:22'What do they make of the punishment handed out to him?'
0:08:22 > 0:08:26As a Liverpool fan, do you think his eight-match ban was fair?
0:08:26 > 0:08:31I don't think so because we have had other cases like this,
0:08:31 > 0:08:33and nothing's been done about it.
0:08:33 > 0:08:35Eight matches was too much.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39It was one word against another, no conclusive evidence.
0:08:39 > 0:08:44It was an argument, obviously it has been blasted up by the media to make him
0:08:44 > 0:08:47look worse than what he is.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50It is probably necessary for the good of the game, I should imagine.
0:08:50 > 0:08:55Haven't you think about how the club reacted?
0:08:55 > 0:08:59They could have handled it better, but they have to back their player.
0:08:59 > 0:09:02He made a mistake and he was hung out to dry for it.
0:09:03 > 0:09:07Liverpool backed their player, rightly or wrongly.
0:09:07 > 0:09:09That's how it is.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14The biggest point that came across to me tonight,
0:09:14 > 0:09:16from the Liverpool fans,
0:09:16 > 0:09:20was that they do believe racism is in issue
0:09:20 > 0:09:21that needs to be tackled,
0:09:21 > 0:09:24but their stance is borne out of the sense of injustice.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28You know, they believe the issue should be tackled,
0:09:28 > 0:09:33but they don't believe Luis Suarez, given the circumstances,
0:09:33 > 0:09:36was the right person to set that precedent.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38They want to look after their superstar striker,
0:09:38 > 0:09:39that's what I think.
0:09:41 > 0:09:43'Both Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool have since said
0:09:43 > 0:09:46'they should have handled the situation differently,
0:09:46 > 0:09:49'and stated they are fully committed to fighting racism.'
0:09:52 > 0:09:55'But I have been left wondering whether club tribalism
0:09:55 > 0:09:59'could be at risk of encouraging racism within football.'
0:10:05 > 0:10:07Did Liverpool's strong backing of Luis Suarez
0:10:07 > 0:10:09actually send a message to some of its fans
0:10:09 > 0:10:12that racist abuse is all right?
0:10:12 > 0:10:14As a big tweeter,
0:10:14 > 0:10:18I've discovered that one former Premiership star, Stan Collymore,
0:10:18 > 0:10:21has collected lots of racist tweets directed at Patrice Evra,
0:10:21 > 0:10:25the target of Luis Suarez's racial slur.
0:10:27 > 0:10:29These are absolutely disgusting.
0:10:34 > 0:10:36There's plenty, plenty more.
0:10:36 > 0:10:39"Fuck you, you fucking black piece of shit."
0:10:39 > 0:10:44It's not Suarez's fault that your mother got fucked by a nigger."
0:10:44 > 0:10:49I can't catch my breath that people would put these on open broadcast to the world,
0:10:49 > 0:10:52never mind think them on their own to begin with.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55There's loads, one after the other. "Evra the monkey",
0:10:55 > 0:10:57- "Evra's a black monkey..." - BLEEP- Frightening.
0:11:01 > 0:11:05You look at the identities of some of the guys here,
0:11:05 > 0:11:07and there could be some trolling going on,
0:11:07 > 0:11:11because there's some who don't seem to have any affiliation whatsoever,
0:11:11 > 0:11:14but there are a lot of LFCs, LFCs,
0:11:14 > 0:11:18in their handles, never mind just the hash tags,
0:11:18 > 0:11:21so you can see that people are Liverpool fans.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27Stan is a former England international
0:11:27 > 0:11:28and used to play for Liverpool himself.
0:11:30 > 0:11:34These days, he's a leading sports broadcaster.
0:11:34 > 0:11:35"Collymore live from Wembley Stadium,
0:11:35 > 0:11:38"Well, of course, as always, you can tweet me..."
0:11:38 > 0:11:41Just before he goes on air for a major final at Wembley,
0:11:41 > 0:11:45I ask about the racist messages directed at him on Twitter,
0:11:45 > 0:11:49by trolls and a small minority of Liverpool fans.
0:11:49 > 0:11:51Your personal Twitter experience,
0:11:51 > 0:11:53what kind of abuse have you come across on there?
0:11:53 > 0:11:56I've had all sorts, "hang yourself",
0:11:56 > 0:12:01"go back to Africa, go back to San nigger, coon, wog."
0:12:01 > 0:12:05It's worse, it was five or six racist messages a day
0:12:05 > 0:12:07I think a lot of people are looking for a reaction.
0:12:07 > 0:12:09How do you feel Liverpool's stance as a club
0:12:09 > 0:12:14over the Suarez incident influenced their fans about the issue?
0:12:14 > 0:12:16The Suarez affair was dealt with, awfully, I think, by Liverpool,
0:12:16 > 0:12:18by the media department, Kenny Dalglish,
0:12:18 > 0:12:20by the club, the players in general.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23You'll remember the T-shirts and the support.
0:12:23 > 0:12:24How many Liverpool fans,
0:12:24 > 0:12:27particularly again of a young age,
0:12:27 > 0:12:29were then more likely to call people
0:12:29 > 0:12:32that were dissenting like me, that played for the club,
0:12:32 > 0:12:35a coon, nigger? Etcetera, etcetera.
0:12:35 > 0:12:38And that is the responsibility a football club has.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41If you put yourself out there to not look at the issue and address it,
0:12:41 > 0:12:42people will follow you,
0:12:42 > 0:12:47to the point that a manager of a high-profile Premier League club
0:12:47 > 0:12:49said, "go and jump off a cliff",
0:12:49 > 0:12:51you'd get certain football fans that would take that literally.
0:12:51 > 0:12:55Liverpool isn't a racist city as far as I'm concerned,
0:12:55 > 0:12:56nor is the football club,
0:12:56 > 0:12:59but again, you leave the door open to any ambiguity,
0:12:59 > 0:13:01and lots of things can follow.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04Do you think other clubs would've acted in a similar way to Liverpool
0:13:04 > 0:13:07when it came to protecting one of their prized assets?
0:13:07 > 0:13:08They would've all acted the same.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11If you've got £20 million worth of assets,
0:13:11 > 0:13:14that may be saleable in a two or three years' time,
0:13:14 > 0:13:16or is playing particularly well,
0:13:16 > 0:13:20when you're sat in a boardroom and the issue of race is there,
0:13:20 > 0:13:24and the issue of pounds, shillings and pence between financial people,
0:13:24 > 0:13:27the unfortunate circumstances that came out of the Suarez affair was
0:13:27 > 0:13:30that racism wasn't the ultimate issue,
0:13:30 > 0:13:34it became financial and an asset towards the club.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38Until that changes, we'll never get across the finishing line.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42Stan's words struck me,
0:13:42 > 0:13:46because I thought that racism wasn't an issue in the game any more.
0:13:46 > 0:13:49But when he's saying for the top clubs
0:13:49 > 0:13:52it's not at the top of their list of priorities,
0:13:52 > 0:13:55that's a really disturbing conclusion.
0:13:59 > 0:14:00DISTANT CHEERING
0:14:03 > 0:14:07I've played for lots of different clubs over the years.
0:14:07 > 0:14:10I want to know why the stands are so much less multicultural
0:14:10 > 0:14:13than the pitch in professional football.
0:14:13 > 0:14:18Many clubs are based in areas with large ethnic communities.
0:14:18 > 0:14:22But I want to find out why very few of these turn out
0:14:22 > 0:14:24to watch their local clubs.
0:14:26 > 0:14:28MUSIC
0:14:32 > 0:14:34I've been invited on a day out
0:14:34 > 0:14:36with some Wolverhampton Wanderers fans.
0:14:36 > 0:14:40They're known as the Punjabi Wolves.
0:14:40 > 0:14:43THEY CHANT
0:14:43 > 0:14:44I thought it might be a bit sombre,
0:14:44 > 0:14:46because the boys have been relegated,
0:14:46 > 0:14:48but it is a proper party today.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51'Founded by some of Wolverhampton's Sikh population...
0:14:54 > 0:14:57'..these guys are a rare example of an ethnic community
0:14:57 > 0:15:00'following their local club to matches.'
0:15:00 > 0:15:03THEY CHANT
0:15:05 > 0:15:09It's like a carnival. Is it like this every week, everywhere you go? Brilliant.
0:15:16 > 0:15:19Do you think clubs should do more
0:15:19 > 0:15:22to embrace their ethnic-minority communities?
0:15:22 > 0:15:26Wolverhampton is one of many cities that isn't tapping into the market,
0:15:26 > 0:15:29which has meant the public-relations opportunities,
0:15:29 > 0:15:31and also the commercial opportunities -
0:15:31 > 0:15:34not just Wolverhampton Wanderers,
0:15:34 > 0:15:38but other football clubs across the board don't capitalise on that.
0:15:38 > 0:15:41How are you experienced any racial abuse while you have been
0:15:41 > 0:15:43not just part of this supporters' club,
0:15:43 > 0:15:45but in and around football grounds?
0:15:45 > 0:15:48In football, yes, unfortunately, I have.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53A few years ago, when we were in the Championship,
0:15:53 > 0:15:55we were playing Cardiff City.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58It was when Michael Chopra was at Cardiff.
0:15:58 > 0:16:01Cos he's of Indian heritage, as well, isn't he?
0:16:01 > 0:16:05He is. Unfortunately, a chap sitting behind us shouted,
0:16:05 > 0:16:08"Eff off, Chopra, you half Paki," sort of thing.
0:16:08 > 0:16:10You do always good it when you attend matches.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12Sometimes it's not actually thrown at you,
0:16:12 > 0:16:16but you can just tell that there's something there,
0:16:16 > 0:16:18- that race is still an issue there.- OK.
0:16:18 > 0:16:22But there have been other times when we have been to places,
0:16:22 > 0:16:24"You are this," or, "You are that."
0:16:24 > 0:16:29Do you think it is this covert racism,
0:16:29 > 0:16:32this under-the-surface racism that means
0:16:32 > 0:16:36there aren't as many black and ethnic-minority fans
0:16:36 > 0:16:38- as there could be at matches?- Definitely.
0:16:38 > 0:16:40Some of my own family members,
0:16:40 > 0:16:44my aunties and uncles who have never been to a football game
0:16:44 > 0:16:48and do not know what happens at a football game,
0:16:48 > 0:16:50"Be safe, don't get into any trouble,
0:16:50 > 0:16:52"you know what the hooligans are like," and stuff.
0:16:52 > 0:16:5620 or 30 years of reputation where the game was seen to be associated
0:16:56 > 0:17:02with hooliganism and racism, I think that stains on people's minds.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12Today was fantastic. What an enjoyable day.
0:17:12 > 0:17:18It was a perfect example of how to improve diversity and relationships
0:17:18 > 0:17:22between different cultures, under this banner of football.
0:17:26 > 0:17:31After 20 or 30 years of racism and hooliganism that has been rife
0:17:31 > 0:17:36throughout football, the memories last long in their community.
0:17:36 > 0:17:40It is hard to break those barriers down and get the younger generations
0:17:40 > 0:17:45and more of the ethnic-minority communities onto the terraces.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57'I was not even born, I was only a kid,
0:17:57 > 0:18:00'when racism and hooliganism tarnished English football
0:18:00 > 0:18:02'in the '70s and '80s.
0:18:08 > 0:18:11'Football matches could be very violent.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14'Far-right racist groups were part of the terraces.
0:18:18 > 0:18:22'Black players were a minority, and suffered shocking racial abuse.
0:18:24 > 0:18:28'I have always been aware of this history in football,
0:18:28 > 0:18:30'but know very little about it.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40'Delving into the game's dark past has stirred up
0:18:40 > 0:18:41'something close to home.'
0:18:41 > 0:18:45- Hello! Hey, Dad.- How are you doing?
0:18:45 > 0:18:48- You all right?- I'm good, thanks.
0:18:48 > 0:18:49Good to see you.
0:18:49 > 0:18:53'Back then, my dad used to watch football on the terraces.'
0:18:53 > 0:18:59- Hiya! Are you OK? - I'm good, thank you.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02'He has always loved the game,
0:19:02 > 0:19:04'and has followed my career very closely.'
0:19:04 > 0:19:08- Do you remember that one, Clarke? - Brilliant, yeah.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12This is when I made the big time,
0:19:12 > 0:19:15my first professional contract at Blackpool, £200 a week!
0:19:17 > 0:19:18Get in there!
0:19:21 > 0:19:22'Once a semi-pro player,
0:19:22 > 0:19:25'he never succeeded in making the step up to the professional game.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29'Today, he's a school caretaker.'
0:19:29 > 0:19:33When Clarke made it as a footballer,
0:19:33 > 0:19:36he made his first appearance as a professional
0:19:36 > 0:19:38I couldn't have been a prouder parent.
0:19:38 > 0:19:44I remember seeing him playing for the England Under-21s. It was fantastic.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47Absolutely fantastic to see him do that.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51'He never talked to me about going into football,
0:19:51 > 0:19:54'and he never once took me to a match when I was growing up.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56'I want to know why.'
0:19:56 > 0:19:59Did you experience any kind of racism, then,
0:19:59 > 0:20:01or racial abuse growing up, Dad?
0:20:01 > 0:20:06Of course. I experienced racism quite a bit, yeah.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09But it was something I never talked about.
0:20:09 > 0:20:13I never told anybody about it or talked to anybody about it.
0:20:13 > 0:20:16I just endured it, like a lot of us did.
0:20:16 > 0:20:19I couldn't take you on football matches in those days.
0:20:19 > 0:20:22That was going to be one of my questions.
0:20:22 > 0:20:25- Is that why you didn't bring me to a game?- Very much so.
0:20:25 > 0:20:29What were some of the terms you used to hear around the terraces
0:20:29 > 0:20:31or when you were getting abused?
0:20:31 > 0:20:35- Clarke, do you really want me to say? - Yeah, this is real, Dad.
0:20:35 > 0:20:38This was what you had to hear and put up with.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42You'd hear them all - "Nigger," "Black bastard," "You wog."
0:20:42 > 0:20:44The abuse was all around you, Clarke.
0:20:44 > 0:20:48Again, this is another reason why I wouldn't take you on a match.
0:20:48 > 0:20:52It used to upset me, hearing the players getting the abuse.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58That was just how it was in those days, going to football matches.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00It wasn't just when he was watching matches, Clarke,
0:21:00 > 0:21:03it was when he was playing them as a footballer.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08- He got racial abuse as well. - From players?
0:21:08 > 0:21:15From playing. I got head-butted, kicked, stamped on.
0:21:15 > 0:21:20That has happened to me in football matches. And the ref could hear this,
0:21:20 > 0:21:25my coaches who were with me could hear it, and nobody did a thing.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29Nobody did a thing.
0:21:29 > 0:21:36You know, that almost put me off football for life.
0:21:36 > 0:21:39If I came up against that on a pitch, I don't know what I'd do.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42Do you feel that your race played a part
0:21:42 > 0:21:44in your progression in football, Dad?
0:21:44 > 0:21:49- Blatantly, it stood against you. - I had wondered about it.
0:21:49 > 0:21:54And I have thought, "I wonder what would have happened
0:21:54 > 0:21:57"and what would have become of me.
0:21:57 > 0:22:00"Would I have ended up playing professional football?"
0:22:02 > 0:22:08It didn't happen for me. That's the way life goes sometimes.
0:22:15 > 0:22:21I think there's a part of you personally
0:22:21 > 0:22:25that doesn't want to think it's because of that
0:22:25 > 0:22:29that it could have blocked a career in football,
0:22:29 > 0:22:31because that was your dad's dream.
0:22:31 > 0:22:38He left school believing he would be a professional footballer.
0:22:38 > 0:22:42It was all I wanted to do.
0:22:45 > 0:22:46What's happening?!
0:22:49 > 0:22:52Stirring things up in me as I'm talking about this stuff.
0:23:24 > 0:23:27Definitely the most striking thing he said was that
0:23:27 > 0:23:31he has been so alone, all this time.
0:23:31 > 0:23:35The fact that my dad did that without passing on his grievances
0:23:35 > 0:23:40and his apprehensions to me, I think that's a phenomenal thing.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42That's enabled me to grow and develop
0:23:42 > 0:23:46without preconceived fears and apprehensions.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49Whether they are still there or not...
0:23:49 > 0:23:52But my mind was free to focus on my own ability
0:23:52 > 0:23:55instead of what potential barriers there may be.
0:23:55 > 0:24:00I've always known that racism has been a problem in society,
0:24:00 > 0:24:03but never been more aware of it than I am today.
0:24:07 > 0:24:10'Unlike my dad's era, today, roughly a quarter
0:24:10 > 0:24:14'of all professional players in England are black or mixed race.'
0:24:15 > 0:24:18# We keep going Don't stop running... #
0:24:18 > 0:24:19'But I've hardly ever played
0:24:19 > 0:24:22'with or against anyone with Pakistani,
0:24:22 > 0:24:23'Indian or Bangladeshi blood.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30'We have a big population with this background in England
0:24:30 > 0:24:35'but only two players have ever reached the top division.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39'To try and understand why this is, I'm visiting Luton -
0:24:39 > 0:24:42'home of a large Pakistani community.'
0:24:42 > 0:24:44Come on Abul!
0:24:44 > 0:24:49'I've come to watch a local club coached by Butch Fazal.'
0:24:53 > 0:24:57Well, we're just watching Butch's under-14 side here -
0:24:57 > 0:25:01100% South Asian players
0:25:01 > 0:25:04and they are wiping the floor with this poor team from Dunstable.
0:25:04 > 0:25:08Not like usual youth team football where it's just
0:25:08 > 0:25:10the bigger team, the stronger team,
0:25:10 > 0:25:12because they're just playing pure soccer.
0:25:12 > 0:25:17The composure of the kids in defence I'm learning from.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20And I think it's 6-0 already.
0:25:20 > 0:25:22Asians can play football.
0:25:24 > 0:25:27Play it, Rahin. Relax. Relax!
0:25:27 > 0:25:28Good boy. Good boy.
0:25:28 > 0:25:32'For the last 30 years, Butch has been campaigning more than anyone
0:25:32 > 0:25:35'to get more Asian players on to the books of professional clubs.
0:25:36 > 0:25:40'He has brought along two of his former star players
0:25:40 > 0:25:43'who haven't made the grade.
0:25:43 > 0:25:45'Before injury put the brakes on his career,
0:25:45 > 0:25:49'Husnane Shah went for a trial at a professional club.'
0:25:49 > 0:25:52Straight after the whole trial,
0:25:52 > 0:25:54my dad was having a chat with
0:25:54 > 0:25:56one of the guys who was obviously scouting.
0:25:56 > 0:25:59He was a black guy who spoke to my dad and he said to him,
0:25:59 > 0:26:03- "I've been specifically employed to not take on Asian people."- What?
0:26:03 > 0:26:07As soon as I heard that, my heart started beating fast,
0:26:07 > 0:26:09like that's the doors closed for me now.
0:26:09 > 0:26:11And everyone knew that I had talent.
0:26:11 > 0:26:13I mean I used to be top goal scorer every season.
0:26:13 > 0:26:16- I scored 86, like 84 goals in a season, Butch?- Yes.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19I remember I used to dominate the field.
0:26:19 > 0:26:2284 goals in a season is just incomprehensible.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25Have you been given a fair crack of the whip?
0:26:25 > 0:26:29- Never gave me a chance.- You're the skipper of the county team?
0:26:29 > 0:26:30Yes, skipper of the county team.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33And I just feel like I've been like the short straw.
0:26:33 > 0:26:36Like I was the person that never got the chance to get anywhere.
0:26:36 > 0:26:41I find it quite unbelievable that the captain of a county team
0:26:41 > 0:26:43has not got a chance at a club.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45It... It's unheard of.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48Virtually, if I go back through my county team
0:26:48 > 0:26:51and the county teams that I played against,
0:26:51 > 0:26:57I can tell you that virtually every single player was at a club.
0:26:57 > 0:27:01I find that utterly ludicrous that the captain of a county team
0:27:01 > 0:27:03has not had... You've not had a way in at any club?
0:27:03 > 0:27:06I've been captain for everything I've played for.
0:27:06 > 0:27:10I've always been of the thought until I started
0:27:10 > 0:27:14this documentary, that if you were good enough you'd get your chance.
0:27:14 > 0:27:18How can that be true and then Asians be discriminated against?
0:27:18 > 0:27:23- How does that work? - Racism.- That's all it is.
0:27:23 > 0:27:27That's what I truly believe, is what you just said now,
0:27:27 > 0:27:30is that it all comes down to racism then.
0:27:30 > 0:27:35That's all I can say. It's as simple and straightforward as racism.
0:27:35 > 0:27:39Everyone says, "You're not going to make it cos you're brown." Everyone.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42I've been asked, "Are you sure? Are you sure you're not wasting your time?"
0:27:42 > 0:27:46There's brilliant players but they're just not given a chance.
0:27:46 > 0:27:50How come they're given a chance in cricket but when it's football it's totally different?
0:27:50 > 0:27:52And all we want is a level playing field.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55And when that day happens, and I know things are happening slowly,
0:27:55 > 0:27:59but when that day happens then you will see that Asian generation.
0:28:03 > 0:28:07It just seems like the South Asian man is fighting the fight
0:28:07 > 0:28:11that black minority players were fighting years ago.
0:28:12 > 0:28:16You know, here are two guys who have blatant and obvious talent.
0:28:16 > 0:28:20One lad, Joe, he's the captain of district teams, county teams,
0:28:20 > 0:28:23every club team he's been at, yet he'll sit there
0:28:23 > 0:28:28at 18 years of age and tell me he's got no chance in football.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30I find that utterly astounding.
0:28:31 > 0:28:33They just face a brick wall.
0:28:33 > 0:28:37How can you have such an untapped resource
0:28:37 > 0:28:42just through prejudicial discrimination?
0:28:58 > 0:29:02'As I learn more about English football's racial problems I'm keen
0:29:02 > 0:29:06'to get some perspective and to see how they compare to other countries.
0:29:08 > 0:29:12'So I'm visiting Poland before it hosts the European Championships.
0:29:15 > 0:29:17'I'm heading to the city of Krakow,
0:29:17 > 0:29:21'to check out the fierce derby match between Wisla Krakow and Cracovia.'
0:29:21 > 0:29:26# Don't play a game I can't win. #
0:29:26 > 0:29:30There have been well documented problems with racism over in Poland.
0:29:30 > 0:29:33I'm going on a tour of the Wisla Krakow
0:29:33 > 0:29:35and the Cracovia neighbourhoods to try and find
0:29:35 > 0:29:38all this anti-Semitic graffiti that I've heard so much about.
0:29:42 > 0:29:45'Because Cracovia has a historical connection with Jews,
0:29:45 > 0:29:51'some Wisla fans still target their rivals with anti-Semitic slurs.'
0:29:53 > 0:29:56This is an example of the anti-Semitic graffiti
0:29:56 > 0:29:57I've been warned about.
0:29:57 > 0:30:01It's quite easy to understand. It says anti-Jew.
0:30:06 > 0:30:11'Rival hooligans from the two clubs have even murdered each other.
0:30:11 > 0:30:14'Which leaves me a bit uneasy about going to the match.
0:30:21 > 0:30:24'A few hours before kick-off, the Cracovia fans
0:30:24 > 0:30:28'gather in the centre of the city for a police escort to Wisla's ground.'
0:30:30 > 0:30:32CHANTING
0:30:51 > 0:30:53It's really starting to heat up now.
0:30:53 > 0:30:56All the fans are lighting flares as we're coming down the street
0:30:56 > 0:30:58and letting off noisy fireworks.
0:31:00 > 0:31:03CHANTING AND BANGS
0:31:03 > 0:31:06It's getting very interesting. Very interesting.
0:31:06 > 0:31:09FIREWORKS BANG
0:31:09 > 0:31:12Especially when you're in a minority of one.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14IN TRANSLATION:
0:31:23 > 0:31:25'Before going into the stadium,
0:31:25 > 0:31:28'I catch up with a local police spokesman.'
0:31:28 > 0:31:31Do you think Polish football has a problem with racism
0:31:31 > 0:31:33and anti-Semitism?
0:31:56 > 0:31:59So do you think I'll hear any racist or anti-Semitic
0:31:59 > 0:32:00chanting in here tonight?
0:32:11 > 0:32:15CHANTING
0:32:26 > 0:32:29'However soon after kick-off,
0:32:29 > 0:32:32'a black Cracovia player is targeted by a minority of home fans.'
0:32:36 > 0:32:37JEERING AND BOOING
0:32:45 > 0:32:46ALMOST DROWNED OUT BY CHANTS:
0:32:55 > 0:33:00'Then just before half time, trouble kicks off in the stands.
0:33:17 > 0:33:20'Later, some of the home supporters taunt their rivals.'
0:33:20 > 0:33:23CHANTING
0:33:49 > 0:33:52Coming to this game today and hearing a black player on the pitch
0:33:52 > 0:33:55racially abused, monkey chants, is just shocking.
0:33:55 > 0:34:00It's the first time I have ever physically encountered
0:34:00 > 0:34:02racial abuse in a football ground.
0:34:02 > 0:34:08Um, it... I just find it utterly incomprehensible.
0:34:08 > 0:34:13It goes back to '70s and '80s and days that my dad talked about.
0:34:17 > 0:34:20'My experience in Poland has shown just how much has been done
0:34:20 > 0:34:23'to kick overt racism out of English stadiums.
0:34:23 > 0:34:26'But it's also highlighted that anti-Semitism
0:34:26 > 0:34:31'in the English game is rarely talked about.'
0:34:31 > 0:34:34There was a word beginning with N that some football fans used to shout...
0:34:34 > 0:34:36'Last year, the charity Kick It Out released this film
0:34:36 > 0:34:41'to highlight how freely the word Yid is used around football
0:34:41 > 0:34:44'in reference to Tottenham Hotspur's Jewish following.'
0:34:44 > 0:34:48For some reason a lot of fans still shout this word and it begins with Y.
0:34:48 > 0:34:52CHANTING: Yiddo Yiddo Yiddo Yiddo Yiddo...
0:34:52 > 0:34:57What they're chanting is a racist word for Jews, the Y word.
0:34:57 > 0:35:01'I'm meeting its producer, David Baddiel...'
0:35:01 > 0:35:03Thank you so much for letting us into your house.
0:35:03 > 0:35:05'..a Jewish comedian and writer.'
0:35:05 > 0:35:07Why did you launch your Y word campaign?
0:35:07 > 0:35:10What was that focused on?
0:35:10 > 0:35:13The experience of being a Chelsea fan,
0:35:13 > 0:35:17over the years I got very used to - me and my brother were both Jewish -
0:35:17 > 0:35:21got very used to the fact that whenever Spurs play us, or indeed
0:35:21 > 0:35:25when there's any mention of Spurs, they start singing anti-Spurs songs and anti-Spurs chants.
0:35:25 > 0:35:28They are often built around the word Yiddo
0:35:28 > 0:35:32and associated anti-Semitic chants like Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz.
0:35:32 > 0:35:34And I've always hated it.
0:35:34 > 0:35:38I've always thought it's incredibly uncomfortable for me as any other
0:35:38 > 0:35:42Jew who might be a Chelsea fan and also I can't bear the fact that
0:35:42 > 0:35:45it's sort of like gone on as if it's kind of acceptable
0:35:45 > 0:35:48when we're supposed to have zero tolerance towards attitude towards racism.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50As it is, we just put up with it.
0:35:57 > 0:36:01In the '70s, Spurs suffered anti-Semitic racism
0:36:01 > 0:36:03That led to them adopting the word Yiddo as a badge of honour.
0:36:03 > 0:36:07And the problem with that is that most Spurs fans aren't Jewish
0:36:07 > 0:36:11so they don't really have a right to re-appropriate that word in that way.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13What you are talking about is if you imagine that
0:36:13 > 0:36:17there was a club in Brixton, say it exists, it existed in the '70s
0:36:17 > 0:36:19and because it existed in Brixton, they were called
0:36:19 > 0:36:23the niggers by racists in the '70s and it was a mainly white club,
0:36:23 > 0:36:28so they embraced the term and now they're still out there singing it.
0:36:28 > 0:36:32Imagine it. Imagine there's a mainly white stadium shouting nigger or nig army
0:36:32 > 0:36:35and they think positively, that club would be shut down tomorrow.
0:36:35 > 0:36:39Tomorrow! Yesterday. Exactly. That's the point.
0:36:39 > 0:36:41And this is what's happening at Tottenham Hotspur.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44That is what's happening when they sing Yid armies.
0:36:44 > 0:36:48Non-Jews using a race-hate word for Jews in their minds positively.
0:36:48 > 0:36:53Do you feel that clubs have an appetite to really challenge anti-Semitism?
0:36:53 > 0:36:55A bit more than they did after the film.
0:36:55 > 0:37:00Um, there was a specific problem with Spurs which is that they knew
0:37:00 > 0:37:04that their fans would react against any outlawing of that word on the terraces.
0:37:04 > 0:37:08And they were keen to suggest that the word itself was technically
0:37:08 > 0:37:12not a racist word so we're not going to stop our fans chanting it.
0:37:12 > 0:37:14Obviously this is all bullshit.
0:37:14 > 0:37:16What they mean is we don't know how to stop our fans chanting it.
0:37:16 > 0:37:20And I understand that's difficult but that is the truth.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23Everything else is, you know, bollocks.
0:37:23 > 0:37:25I'd just been saying to my brother who we did this film with,
0:37:25 > 0:37:28we are on our way to Chelsea, "I think it's got better.
0:37:28 > 0:37:31"The film's had some impact and I think we won't hear such bad racism."
0:37:31 > 0:37:35And literally at that moment, I heard some people chanting I'd rather be a Paki than a Yid.
0:37:35 > 0:37:37I thought, "Well, maybe I'm wrong about that.
0:37:37 > 0:37:39"Maybe it's had no impact at all."
0:37:39 > 0:37:42Apart form anything else, racist chanting is against the law.
0:37:42 > 0:37:45'While supporting all efforts to kick anti-Semitism
0:37:45 > 0:37:49'out of football and recognising the sensitivity of the word Yid,
0:37:49 > 0:37:53'Tottenham argue that its fans' use of this word does not justify
0:37:53 > 0:37:58'the deliberately offensive abuse of some opposing fans.'
0:38:04 > 0:38:07'I set out on this journey after John Terry was charged with
0:38:07 > 0:38:11'racism in a criminal court and stripped of the England captaincy.
0:38:11 > 0:38:14'Although Terry would be cleared of all charges,
0:38:14 > 0:38:17'I've discovered so much else about my industry.'
0:38:20 > 0:38:24Obviously I'd heard of these different problems of discrimination
0:38:24 > 0:38:27and racism within football but I didn't realise how far they went.
0:38:27 > 0:38:30Er, you know,
0:38:30 > 0:38:35the problems that I'm seeing as we delve into this about anti-Semitism.
0:38:35 > 0:38:38Going from talking to my dad about things in my own life
0:38:38 > 0:38:42I wasn't even aware of, to parts of our game,
0:38:42 > 0:38:47especially at grass roots level, where these problems are,
0:38:47 > 0:38:53they really are big barriers for guys to get over.
0:38:53 > 0:38:55And do you think you should have known more about them
0:38:55 > 0:38:56as the PFA chairman?
0:38:56 > 0:38:58This is something I've been asking myself
0:38:58 > 0:39:01because as chairman of the players' union I would expect myself
0:39:01 > 0:39:05to have a real understanding of what's going on in the game.
0:39:05 > 0:39:07And if these are problems that are stopping
0:39:07 > 0:39:11lads from getting into the professional side of the game,
0:39:11 > 0:39:14then it is definitely something that I should be aware of.
0:39:17 > 0:39:21'There is one undeniable racial barrier in football, the big jobs.
0:39:23 > 0:39:28'I'm one of around 25% of current players who are black.
0:39:28 > 0:39:31'So how come there are only three black managers
0:39:31 > 0:39:33'out of 92 professional clubs?'
0:39:33 > 0:39:39- A deflection and it's an easy goal for John Barnes.- Gone to his left.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42Still Barnes! That's a fabulous individual goal!
0:39:42 > 0:39:46'John Barnes is one of England's greatest ever footballers.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50CHEERING
0:39:50 > 0:39:54'In spite of suffering shocking racial abuse as a player,
0:39:54 > 0:39:59'he won numerous trophies with Liverpool and nearly 80 caps for England.'
0:39:59 > 0:40:00This way, gents, please.
0:40:00 > 0:40:03But after this glittering career on the pitch,
0:40:03 > 0:40:05he struggled to find work as a manager.
0:40:07 > 0:40:10Today he is leading the fight to get more black people
0:40:10 > 0:40:13into positions of power off the pitch.
0:40:13 > 0:40:16Passive racism is an unconscious feeling you have,
0:40:16 > 0:40:18based on what you have been told.
0:40:18 > 0:40:20If I was white, I would be a passive racist,
0:40:20 > 0:40:25because of all the images, the rhetoric and literature I have read about black people.
0:40:28 > 0:40:29I am meeting John at the
0:40:29 > 0:40:33International Slavery Museum in Liverpool, near his home.
0:40:35 > 0:40:39Sacked from his first job as manager after just eight months,
0:40:39 > 0:40:42John waited over eight years for his next job.
0:40:43 > 0:40:46Do you believe a white manager
0:40:46 > 0:40:49would have had to wait so long for his next appointment?
0:40:49 > 0:40:55Firstly, I think white managers are given longer to fail,
0:40:55 > 0:40:58because as soon as you lose a couple of matches, you are out.
0:40:58 > 0:41:02It's almost as if they don't believe in you in the first place,
0:41:02 > 0:41:04but they have given you the job,
0:41:04 > 0:41:08and then when you are not successful straightaway it is like, that is
0:41:08 > 0:41:11what we thought anyway, so here we go, rather than sticking with them,
0:41:11 > 0:41:14either from the point of view of being given time by the fans,
0:41:14 > 0:41:16the players, by the hierarchy.
0:41:16 > 0:41:18And of course to get back in,
0:41:18 > 0:41:21- it's always easier if you are white to get back in as well. - How do you prove that?
0:41:21 > 0:41:24You can't, because you have the owner of a football club,
0:41:24 > 0:41:26you can't tell him who he has to interview,
0:41:26 > 0:41:30and even if he has to interview you he doesn't have to give you the job,
0:41:30 > 0:41:31so you can't prove it.
0:41:31 > 0:41:35How do you explain the lack of black managers? What do you think it's down to?
0:41:35 > 0:41:38I always look at racism in two ways -
0:41:38 > 0:41:43overt racism, which is how it was 30 years ago, doing what they're doing,
0:41:43 > 0:41:45and passive racism, which is what we see now,
0:41:45 > 0:41:49whereby we don't see lots of people doing it, but people still feel that way but you can't prove it.
0:41:49 > 0:41:53The problem we have is that a chairman may say,
0:41:53 > 0:41:56"I am not giving him the job, not because he is black,
0:41:56 > 0:41:59"but because I don't think he is good enough."
0:41:59 > 0:42:03But then if he was asking himself, "Why don't I think he's good enough?"
0:42:03 > 0:42:06it would be because he's black, but that's in his subconscious.
0:42:06 > 0:42:10That is where the passive racism comes in which a lot of people have,
0:42:10 > 0:42:13based on their perception of the capabilities of black people generally.
0:42:23 > 0:42:27Talking with John was really interesting. He is adamant
0:42:27 > 0:42:30that the lack of black managers in football
0:42:30 > 0:42:35reflects the lack of black people in senior positions in society,
0:42:35 > 0:42:39but in delving into this topic more,
0:42:39 > 0:42:44it's made me realise that we have a ready-made talent pool here,
0:42:44 > 0:42:47to promote into management positions.
0:42:47 > 0:42:50We need to be doing more about this as an industry,
0:42:50 > 0:42:52proactively as well,
0:42:52 > 0:42:55even if that does mean introducing quotas
0:42:55 > 0:42:57so that every club has to interview
0:42:57 > 0:43:01a certain number of black or ethnic minority individuals
0:43:01 > 0:43:06for each position that is available, then it's a start.
0:43:18 > 0:43:21Near my club, there is a memorial to Walter Tull,
0:43:21 > 0:43:26one of the first black professional footballers to have played in Britain.
0:43:29 > 0:43:32You know, Black Britain in the 1900s,
0:43:32 > 0:43:35not only did he become a professional footballer
0:43:35 > 0:43:37and break down those barriers,
0:43:37 > 0:43:41but the first commissioned black officer,
0:43:41 > 0:43:43and went to war for his country.
0:43:43 > 0:43:49That's utterly astounding. It really is quite sobering to think
0:43:49 > 0:43:53about the difference in the plight that Walter Tull would have had,
0:43:53 > 0:43:57his experience playing for Northampton back in 1911,
0:43:57 > 0:44:02and then, mine now in 2012. You know?
0:44:02 > 0:44:04I am quite ignorant to it all,
0:44:04 > 0:44:09to the plight of the individual black man
0:44:09 > 0:44:11around the nation today.
0:44:11 > 0:44:15I am learning every day. Every person that I talk to
0:44:15 > 0:44:20is opening my eyes and my mind to a completely different side...
0:44:21 > 0:44:22..of life.
0:44:23 > 0:44:25Completely different.
0:44:38 > 0:44:41I'm wondering what people outside my industry
0:44:41 > 0:44:44think of its racial problems,
0:44:44 > 0:44:47so I'm meeting a leading anti-racism campaigner.
0:44:47 > 0:44:49I think Madonna is doing a lot for the country,
0:44:49 > 0:44:54because when she got David, she donated £1.5 million to the orphanage he came from,
0:44:54 > 0:44:58and others criticised that and said she has actually gone to Africa
0:44:58 > 0:45:01to buy a black child for £1.5 million.
0:45:01 > 0:45:04And someone said, "Surely you find that offensive?"
0:45:04 > 0:45:07I was, like, "Not really, I find it exciting,
0:45:07 > 0:45:09"because I've got two black kids at home."
0:45:09 > 0:45:11LAUGHTER
0:45:12 > 0:45:15Ava Vidal is an established comedienne
0:45:15 > 0:45:18and a patron of the charity, Show Racism The Red Card.
0:45:18 > 0:45:21I know you're interested in football.
0:45:21 > 0:45:23What do you see from the outside?
0:45:23 > 0:45:28When it comes to racism, there is a massive culture of denial.
0:45:28 > 0:45:30And I think it's worse in football.
0:45:30 > 0:45:34When you're watching the game, especially an international game,
0:45:34 > 0:45:38very often, the commentators really upset me
0:45:38 > 0:45:40with the way they speak about African players.
0:45:40 > 0:45:43A lot of these African players actually play in Europe,
0:45:43 > 0:45:46but suddenly, when they are representing an African team,
0:45:46 > 0:45:49they are often described as naive.
0:45:49 > 0:45:53And that is just an extension of a stereotype
0:45:53 > 0:45:57that exists outside football, that black people are just
0:45:57 > 0:46:01pure brute strength, and fit and strong but we are simple in the mind.
0:46:01 > 0:46:05This is something that John Barnes alluded to when we talked to him,
0:46:05 > 0:46:09how this unconscious racism is in society, not just football.
0:46:09 > 0:46:13Would you agree that football is reflective of society,
0:46:13 > 0:46:15or is it different?
0:46:15 > 0:46:18I think football is reflective of society.
0:46:18 > 0:46:24It does transcend class, colour, religion, creed, whatever,
0:46:24 > 0:46:28it should be pioneering things when it applies to race,
0:46:28 > 0:46:32which they're not doing because they are comfortable.
0:46:32 > 0:46:36And they're comfortable because nobody is really objecting.
0:46:36 > 0:46:39I remember speaking about John Terry on stage.
0:46:39 > 0:46:42And they were racially abusing me and going, "We love John Terry",
0:46:42 > 0:46:45and they started, the whole way through going, "Chelsea, Chelsea",
0:46:45 > 0:46:48and I was like, see ya. And I just walked off.
0:46:48 > 0:46:51And they were like, "Hey, she didn't do her set,
0:46:51 > 0:46:53"that's not fair. We paid to see that."
0:46:53 > 0:46:56And I was like, I do not get paid to tolerate that.
0:46:58 > 0:47:02I want to put Ava's views to some big-name English black players,
0:47:02 > 0:47:05but with John Terry's historic trial looming,
0:47:05 > 0:47:09it's not proving easy to get them to talk about racism within the game.
0:47:16 > 0:47:20I thought that because I was chairman of the players' union,
0:47:20 > 0:47:22and a fellow professional,
0:47:22 > 0:47:26lads would be more comfortable taking up the offer
0:47:26 > 0:47:30of a platform with which to voice their views.
0:47:30 > 0:47:35But even though people really want things to change,
0:47:35 > 0:47:38it seems that no-one wants to take up the mantle themselves.
0:47:38 > 0:47:43I got hold of a current England international,
0:47:43 > 0:47:46and asked him to take part,
0:47:46 > 0:47:48and he was reluctant to.
0:47:48 > 0:47:51He sent me an e-mail back saying,
0:47:51 > 0:47:53"I believe it might hinder me getting into the squad
0:47:53 > 0:47:57"if the FA catch wind of it, funny as that might sound."
0:47:57 > 0:48:01It seems that no-one wants to rock the boat.
0:48:01 > 0:48:03Rightly or wrongly, these guys think
0:48:03 > 0:48:05it's going to have an effect on their career.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18'Then at last, I get a breakthrough.'
0:48:19 > 0:48:23It's been really hard to get any big-name, Premier League
0:48:23 > 0:48:25English footballers on the film,
0:48:25 > 0:48:28but one's agreed to talk to me now, so I'm going to go and meet him.
0:48:32 > 0:48:35'Jermaine Jenas has been a Premiership star for ten years.
0:48:35 > 0:48:38'Currently at high-flying Tottenham Hotspur,
0:48:38 > 0:48:40'he's also played over 20 times for England.'
0:48:42 > 0:48:45Why do you think some black players are so reluctant
0:48:45 > 0:48:47to talk about racism in the game?
0:48:47 > 0:48:49Racism's a sensitive issue
0:48:49 > 0:48:53and I think you do have to be quite articulate to deal with it.
0:48:53 > 0:48:54Yeah, that's a fair point.
0:48:54 > 0:48:57It can be easy for your point to be misconstrued.
0:48:57 > 0:49:02Especially coming from footballers because people listen and...
0:49:02 > 0:49:05their views are magnified.
0:49:05 > 0:49:08You know what it's like. Say one thing, the world knows, seen it on Twitter.
0:49:08 > 0:49:12Have you ever experienced racism in your career?
0:49:12 > 0:49:14Um, yes. Yeah.
0:49:14 > 0:49:17Mainly across Europe, when I've been playing for England.
0:49:17 > 0:49:20- OK.- I can probably honestly say
0:49:20 > 0:49:23I haven't received any in England at all.
0:49:23 > 0:49:28OK. So, what kind of forms did that come across in those games?
0:49:28 > 0:49:31Monkey chants.
0:49:31 > 0:49:36You black this, you black that. You name it. I think in England
0:49:36 > 0:49:40they've done a good job of stamping out a lot of racism in football.
0:49:40 > 0:49:43Although, it's still there. There's no denying that
0:49:43 > 0:49:46and I don't foresee the day that it won't be there.
0:49:46 > 0:49:50What needs to be done is just more people saying
0:49:50 > 0:49:52what they actually feel,
0:49:52 > 0:49:54rather than being scared to actually go out there
0:49:54 > 0:49:57and make their points be known on racism.
0:49:57 > 0:49:58It's an issue, simply as that.
0:49:58 > 0:50:01And we need to crack down on it.
0:50:01 > 0:50:04We can use football in a positive way.
0:50:04 > 0:50:06'I bring up the funding of Kick It Out,
0:50:06 > 0:50:08'football's best-known anti-racism charity,
0:50:08 > 0:50:10'who I sometimes do work for.'
0:50:11 > 0:50:14The campaign Kick It Out runs on
0:50:14 > 0:50:18an annual budget of less than half a million pounds a year.
0:50:18 > 0:50:20- Is that enough?- No, it's not.
0:50:20 > 0:50:23I have my own charity back in Nottingham. Obviously, I know
0:50:23 > 0:50:26how much work these charities take and how hard it is to run.
0:50:26 > 0:50:29I didn't know that was your budget. I think that you do
0:50:29 > 0:50:35very well on that. Given the amount of money the Premier League earns...
0:50:35 > 0:50:39I think the Premier League's just been awarded 3.1 billion.
0:50:41 > 0:50:45- A mill' wouldn't hurt, would it? - I'm sure they wouldn't miss it!
0:50:45 > 0:50:47THEY LAUGH
0:50:47 > 0:50:49Suarez got eight games.
0:50:49 > 0:50:52What do you think John Terry should get
0:50:52 > 0:50:55if he's found guilty of this alleged offence?
0:50:55 > 0:50:59- The problem that we have is there's a precedent been set now.- Yeah.
0:50:59 > 0:51:02So if John Terry gets any more than the seven or eight games,
0:51:02 > 0:51:04then it's going to be looked at as very harsh.
0:51:04 > 0:51:08Should it be the same across the board now they've set that precedent
0:51:08 > 0:51:10or are some things worse than others?
0:51:10 > 0:51:14- To me, racism is racism.- Yeah. - Simple as that. Plain and simple.
0:51:14 > 0:51:18There isn't that type of level or that type of level
0:51:18 > 0:51:21in terms of different words you've used or in what context you've used it.
0:51:21 > 0:51:22If you're racist, you're racist
0:51:22 > 0:51:25and it all should be dealt with accordingly.
0:51:25 > 0:51:29If John Terry is found guilty of that situation,
0:51:29 > 0:51:32which has still to be sorted out,
0:51:32 > 0:51:34then I'm sure that he would learn from it.
0:51:36 > 0:51:38OK. Very non-committal!
0:51:38 > 0:51:40HE LAUGHS
0:51:40 > 0:51:44There's not much to say cos it's still an ongoing thing. Exactly.
0:51:44 > 0:51:47I can't sit here and bear judgment on someone that's not been found guilty.
0:51:48 > 0:51:51Absolute pleasure. Thank you very much.
0:51:53 > 0:51:56'It's now just days until John Terry's trial,
0:51:56 > 0:52:00'but months since I began looking into football's racial problems.
0:52:01 > 0:52:04'It's time to get the view from the top.'
0:52:05 > 0:52:07Just on my way to Wembley,
0:52:07 > 0:52:11headquarters of the FA, England's national governing body in football,
0:52:11 > 0:52:14to speak to them about some of the issues that have struck me
0:52:14 > 0:52:16over the past four months.
0:52:20 > 0:52:24'Brendon Batson was a pioneering black player back in the '70s.
0:52:25 > 0:52:30'These days, he is the FA's leading adviser on racial issues.'
0:52:30 > 0:52:32I'll get straight to the point,
0:52:32 > 0:52:3625% of our players in football in England are black.
0:52:36 > 0:52:39Why are these numbers not represented in the positions
0:52:39 > 0:52:43of real authority and decision in football?
0:52:43 > 0:52:46I've been asked that question so many times...
0:52:46 > 0:52:47I really don't have the answer.
0:52:47 > 0:52:51I do think there seems to be a lack of appetite in employing
0:52:51 > 0:52:54black players to become coaches and managers.
0:52:54 > 0:52:55We've seen a few years ago,
0:52:55 > 0:52:58we had about four or five black managers in the football league.
0:52:58 > 0:53:01We don't see those numbers any more. We've got three...
0:53:01 > 0:53:05One in the Premiership, obviously. In numbers, we're going backwards.
0:53:05 > 0:53:07This is going to be a long-term project.
0:53:07 > 0:53:10We need to see more black coaches getting higher qualifications
0:53:10 > 0:53:13and then being given opportunities to work within mainstream football.
0:53:13 > 0:53:17One current England player told me that he thought speaking out
0:53:17 > 0:53:20about racism in football would directly affect
0:53:20 > 0:53:23his selection chances for the Euros.
0:53:23 > 0:53:25- What do you say to that? - I think that's nonsense.
0:53:25 > 0:53:28I think that wouldn't be the case.
0:53:28 > 0:53:32So I would say to any player, if they've got something to say,
0:53:32 > 0:53:34black or white, come forward and say it.
0:53:34 > 0:53:37Without that, we can't move the process forward.
0:53:37 > 0:53:41We've done so much to get overt racism out of our game,
0:53:41 > 0:53:45but what I've heard about is the covert racism.
0:53:45 > 0:53:48You know, the innuendo, the glass ceilings.
0:53:48 > 0:53:53Do you believe that we do enough
0:53:53 > 0:53:56to really go out hell-for-leather against racism?
0:53:56 > 0:53:59We should be proud of what's been achieved over the years.
0:53:59 > 0:54:02But yes, we want to keep progressing.
0:54:02 > 0:54:05I know from my own experiences that revolutions are a thing of the past,
0:54:05 > 0:54:08so we have to take things very, very slowly. It is a conservative sport.
0:54:08 > 0:54:12But it needs a current crop of players to tell us what they want
0:54:12 > 0:54:16and how they want to see these anti-racism campaigns develop.
0:54:29 > 0:54:32'Finally, John Terry's day in court arrives
0:54:32 > 0:54:36'and all eyes are on him.'
0:54:36 > 0:54:39REPORTER: His reputation at stake, the Chelsea star...
0:54:39 > 0:54:42England footballer John Terry has appeared in court...
0:54:42 > 0:54:44John Terry denies the charge but the prosecution...
0:54:44 > 0:54:46After a five-day trial,
0:54:46 > 0:54:49Terry is cleared of racially abusing an opponent.
0:54:59 > 0:55:02Whilst John Terry has been found innocent of the charge against him,
0:55:02 > 0:55:05I really think this trial has brought the whole issue of racism
0:55:05 > 0:55:08front and centre once again.
0:55:08 > 0:55:11And that's given us a real opportunity to combat
0:55:11 > 0:55:14all the racial issues that I've come across while making this film.
0:55:14 > 0:55:19It's not just one person's sole remit to solve all these problems.
0:55:19 > 0:55:21We all need to do more...
0:55:21 > 0:55:25the clubs, the authorities and especially the players.
0:55:25 > 0:55:29That means me especially, being chairman of the Players' Union.
0:55:29 > 0:55:32I've realised that I've been part of the problem
0:55:32 > 0:55:35because I didn't fully understand the reality out there.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38I've learned a lot about my identity.
0:55:38 > 0:55:41I've learnt a lot about the different issues affecting the game.
0:55:41 > 0:55:44Hopefully, that'll give me a new purpose
0:55:44 > 0:55:46in trying to help move things forward.
0:56:15 > 0:56:18Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd