0:00:41 > 0:00:47Oh, I read the first couple of pages and just glanced through the rest.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49Oi!
0:00:49 > 0:00:54I can't help it if you're a swot who's too scared not to do her homework.
0:00:54 > 0:00:58What, you got into medical school by smoking behind the bikesheds?
0:00:58 > 0:01:00Do you know what, this is a course - it's not work.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02It's part of patient care.
0:01:02 > 0:01:07And another thing is I am a 21st century, metrosexual kind of guy,
0:01:07 > 0:01:10across gender, equality and diversity issues
0:01:10 > 0:01:13since Bruce Forsyth was a nipper. And we're not doing too badly.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16We've got plenty of female staff, and gender has never been a barrier
0:01:16 > 0:01:19from anyone becoming partner, has it?
0:01:19 > 0:01:21OK, save the speech for the workshop.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24They might not notice that you haven't prepared.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28Wow! You know what - you are more judgmental and less empathetic
0:01:28 > 0:01:29than me. So, maybe you're right.
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Maybe you do need to read the briefing notes.
0:01:32 > 0:01:35Why don't we just give you an A star, right now?
0:01:35 > 0:01:37I'm not sure they're grading us, sweetheart.
0:01:37 > 0:01:39Or a medal, or the Nobel prize! Why think small?
0:01:39 > 0:01:41That's excessive.
0:01:41 > 0:01:44Creating a better world for you and my daughter is reward enough.
0:01:44 > 0:01:45We are so blessed.
0:01:46 > 0:01:50Fail to prepare, prepare to fail and all that.
0:01:50 > 0:01:51It's going to be a doddle.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54There's going to be Powerpoint, statistics, chitchat,
0:01:54 > 0:01:56more coffee than we should drink,
0:01:56 > 0:02:00and then we're going to have to excuse ourselves from going to the bar with them at 4pm.
0:02:00 > 0:02:01You should keep an open mind.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03You've got more to learn than you think.
0:02:03 > 0:02:05What, you calling me sexist?
0:02:05 > 0:02:08I'm just saying that you're not the new man you think you are.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11The new man was invented 25 years ago to make old men buy hatchbacks.
0:02:11 > 0:02:13I'm more modern than that.
0:02:13 > 0:02:15You're more sexist than you think you are.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18Don't worry, that's nearly every man I've ever met.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20Let's make this interesting.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22The course is bound to be mostly women.
0:02:22 > 0:02:26You're not going to be able to not revert to typical gender roles,
0:02:26 > 0:02:28and if you're still like that at the end,
0:02:28 > 0:02:30you're buying me dinner at the weekend
0:02:30 > 0:02:31at a restaurant of my choice.
0:02:31 > 0:02:33And if I'm not being sexist?
0:02:33 > 0:02:36I'm buying dinner. At a restaurant of my choice.
0:02:37 > 0:02:42You're going to provoke my fragile male ego, aren't you?
0:02:42 > 0:02:43Chicken noises and things?
0:02:43 > 0:02:45No chicken noises.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48I'm much more a white feather through the post kind of a girl.
0:02:48 > 0:02:50Packs a punch.
0:02:50 > 0:02:51Deal.
0:02:51 > 0:02:53It's candy from a baby.
0:02:53 > 0:02:55And that is not me calling you baby...
0:02:55 > 0:02:56baby.
0:03:10 > 0:03:12What are you looking so happy about?
0:03:12 > 0:03:14Am I?
0:03:14 > 0:03:17The only man? Looks like it, yes.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20Really looking forward to today.
0:03:20 > 0:03:24What, you and a roomful of forceful strong women, discussing sexism?
0:03:24 > 0:03:26It's not a problem. Why would it be?
0:03:26 > 0:03:28You don't have to impress me, Daniel.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37Oh, come on. Down, boy!
0:03:37 > 0:03:40Are you just going to concede that you've lost the bet, right now?
0:03:40 > 0:03:42You don't have to feel threatened, OK?
0:03:45 > 0:03:49Welcome, everyone, to the workshop on gender, equality and diversity.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52I'm Maria Perez, the course tutor.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54Normally, this course is just for academics,
0:03:54 > 0:03:58but this time we have university doctors Zara Carmichael
0:03:58 > 0:04:01and Daniel Granger, from the campus surgery.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04And, of course, as well as bringing the doctor's perspective,
0:04:04 > 0:04:07Daniel brings the male perspective, too.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10It's always good to have a man along for the ride.
0:04:10 > 0:04:11With his better half!
0:04:11 > 0:04:14A couple! Even better.
0:04:14 > 0:04:17That dynamic'll make some of the role plays and break out groups
0:04:17 > 0:04:19more interesting and fun.
0:04:19 > 0:04:23Anyway, the object of today is to look at everyday sexism
0:04:23 > 0:04:26in all its forms - it ain't gone away, folks.
0:04:26 > 0:04:31I want to look at the spectrum of behaviour from holding a door open
0:04:31 > 0:04:34for a woman to sexual harassment, homophobia,
0:04:34 > 0:04:37transphobia, sexual violence.
0:04:37 > 0:04:38Just to be clear,
0:04:38 > 0:04:41do we have a working definition of sexual harassment?
0:04:41 > 0:04:43The law is clear.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46Unwanted conduct that violates a person's dignity
0:04:46 > 0:04:49or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading,
0:04:49 > 0:04:52humiliating or offensive environment.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55Does that cover a man undressing a woman with his eyes?
0:04:57 > 0:05:01Depends on the context and, which we will get to later,
0:05:01 > 0:05:03the C word - consent.
0:05:03 > 0:05:05There's a time and a place for everything.
0:05:05 > 0:05:06At work?
0:05:06 > 0:05:09Well, the law's there to prevent the most extreme transgressions.
0:05:09 > 0:05:14A man mentally undressing another woman when he's sitting right next to his partner?
0:05:43 > 0:05:44Have my seat.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53It's my own fault. I always like to be early for appointments.
0:05:53 > 0:05:57It really messes with their system when people are tardy.
0:06:01 > 0:06:06Obviously, sexism on campus is a real, major issue,
0:06:06 > 0:06:09but sometimes what we see as sexism
0:06:09 > 0:06:13can be the result of a misunderstanding or even something medical.
0:06:13 > 0:06:14Like?
0:06:14 > 0:06:16I had a young, male patient
0:06:16 > 0:06:19who actually came to see me about something else.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23He was despairing because a couple of women had accused him
0:06:23 > 0:06:26of staring at them in the university library.
0:06:26 > 0:06:30He was petrified of being kicked out of the university,
0:06:30 > 0:06:33but insists that he wasn't staring.
0:06:33 > 0:06:35Actually, he needed glasses
0:06:35 > 0:06:40and he was young and good-looking and too vain to admit it.
0:06:40 > 0:06:44Obviously, those women had every right to feel uncomfortable
0:06:44 > 0:06:46at the way he was staring at them.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49But, in actual fact, he wasn't staring at them.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51They were, literally, a blur to him.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55So, I suggested what he could do - wear glasses, have contact lenses.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59In the end he went for corrective eye surgery - staring problem over.
0:07:01 > 0:07:02So what's your excuse?
0:07:02 > 0:07:05You letched after Maria when you came in.
0:07:05 > 0:07:07Do you need glasses too?
0:07:07 > 0:07:11Sue Gleeson, Social Sciences. I'm not comfortable with a man here.
0:07:11 > 0:07:13It skews the whole thing.
0:07:13 > 0:07:15You have to be the centre of attention.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17Since we started, it's all been about you.
0:07:17 > 0:07:19He only glanced at Maria for a second.
0:07:19 > 0:07:24That's all it takes for him to strip her naked in his mind's eye and reduce her to an object.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26You overestimate the speed of Daniel's brain.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28Can I stop you there, Sue?
0:07:28 > 0:07:30The guidelines are very clear.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33Let's stick to the issues and not make things personal.
0:07:33 > 0:07:36I take your point, but I like having men attend these workshops.
0:07:36 > 0:07:39It stops it being just me preaching to the converted.
0:07:39 > 0:07:41I'm already converted!
0:07:41 > 0:07:44But not every woman is pro-feminism.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47Fair point. Everyone will get a chance to be heard.
0:07:47 > 0:07:49Let's continue.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04Role-play! Remember the rules in the briefing notes.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07The objective is to gain a greater understanding of what constitutes
0:08:07 > 0:08:12sexual harassment, what the impact is, and what you can do about it.
0:08:12 > 0:08:14Gender reversal.
0:08:14 > 0:08:18Daniel, would you be willing to be a female fresher student
0:08:18 > 0:08:22who finds herself surrounded by a group of young men steeped in lads' culture?
0:08:22 > 0:08:25I would. You mean like in a rugby club?
0:08:25 > 0:08:28Exactly. They're all drunk, a bit lairy.
0:08:28 > 0:08:31Oh, Daniel was in the rugby club, so nuts out for the lads!
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Remember, it's gender reversal.
0:08:33 > 0:08:37- Hello, darling? Need a drink? - Hello, sweetheart.- Nice jugs.
0:08:37 > 0:08:38I'm up here.
0:08:38 > 0:08:40What do you think, lads? Six out of ten?
0:08:40 > 0:08:41More than that.
0:08:41 > 0:08:45Whoa! Whoa, whoa, whoa! I was just groped!
0:08:45 > 0:08:46Ladies, please.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49But it's what really happens, right? We've all been groped.
0:08:49 > 0:08:51What's the matter, love? It's just a bit of fun.
0:08:51 > 0:08:52Stop there, please.
0:08:52 > 0:08:54She was up for it just now.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56You loved it, really, c'mon.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58Whoever that was, you cannot behave like that.
0:08:58 > 0:09:03Besides the impact on Daniel, there can be major consequences for the university.
0:09:03 > 0:09:05Have a coffee, then we'll discuss this.
0:09:09 > 0:09:10Was that you?
0:09:10 > 0:09:12Might have been.
0:09:24 > 0:09:26I'm addicted to this stuff.
0:09:26 > 0:09:27I saw what you did.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31OK, I'm sorry.
0:09:31 > 0:09:33I got carried away.
0:09:33 > 0:09:36Maria's right, you're right. I shouldn't have done it.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38I'll apologise to Daniel.
0:09:38 > 0:09:40Don't. He thinks it was me. It's done.
0:09:40 > 0:09:44At least now he knows what most women experience all the time.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47It might make him a better man.
0:09:49 > 0:09:51It's interesting you talk about humour.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53One of the big problems now is sexting.
0:09:53 > 0:09:59There are some samples. I'm not just talking about sexually suggestive or offensive text messages,
0:09:59 > 0:10:02I'm including all sorts of social media, where children
0:10:02 > 0:10:05as young as seven are texting offensive messages.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07It makes me fear for my daughter.
0:10:07 > 0:10:09I'll speak to her mother!
0:10:09 > 0:10:11Yes, she will need to be protected from men.
0:10:11 > 0:10:13Why from men?
0:10:13 > 0:10:17What, you're tarring all men as if they're the kind of creeps that groom children?
0:10:17 > 0:10:21Plenty of women have been involved in crimes against children!
0:10:21 > 0:10:24Or are you suggesting children need protection from me?
0:10:27 > 0:10:28I think you need to apologise.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30Let's all take a moment.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33These are emotive issues.
0:10:33 > 0:10:37Sue, Daniel's correct, what you said was offensive.
0:10:37 > 0:10:39I think an apology is called for.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44If you found it offensive, then I apologise,
0:10:44 > 0:10:46but there's a lot of male behaviour I find...
0:10:46 > 0:10:49No, no. That is one of those mealy-mouthed apologies
0:10:49 > 0:10:50that isn't an apology at all.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53I think you can do better than that.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58Before you take a swing at me, I am sorry for keeping you waiting.
0:10:58 > 0:11:02- Just too many patients that took longer than expected.- All right.
0:11:02 > 0:11:03I'm sorry, take a seat.
0:11:03 > 0:11:05Thank you.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08So, Al, how've you been?
0:11:08 > 0:11:12- Well, actually, never better.- Good.
0:11:12 > 0:11:17- Breaking news - I've been cutting down on the old sugar.- Excellent.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20I'm feeling rather positive.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23That's why I didn't like waiting so long in the waiting room.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26Sitting on my backside's not good for me, is it?
0:11:26 > 0:11:30Maybe you could consider getting some treadmills for your waiting room.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33You've got people waiting so long. They could build up a sweat.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35I'll put it in the suggestion box.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38Right. Now, it's too soon for there to be any improvement
0:11:38 > 0:11:41on my blood sugar levels, but there might be some on cholesterol?
0:11:41 > 0:11:43What do results say for cholesterol?
0:11:43 > 0:11:47Odd. The results aren't back yet. Excuse me.
0:11:47 > 0:11:48Hi, it's Victoria.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51Could you chase up Dr Haskey's cholesterol for me, please?
0:11:51 > 0:11:53Quick as you can. Thank you.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56Ooh, so much suspense.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00Didn't your system break down last time I was here?
0:12:00 > 0:12:02Yes. We're working on it.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05Hm. You're working on it.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14Can I help you to a banana, or are they too excessively phallic for you?
0:12:15 > 0:12:17Are you going to take this seriously?
0:12:17 > 0:12:20Well, at least I read the briefing notes.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24I had to look after our son while Zara prepared.
0:12:25 > 0:12:29He is seriously citing childcare as the reason for not preparing
0:12:29 > 0:12:32sufficiently for a conference on sexism?
0:12:32 > 0:12:34Well, that is inventive.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37I promise you I am taking this seriously.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39It's just Mother Dungaree I can't take seriously.
0:12:39 > 0:12:42All that wholemeal worthiness. But, I'll be good, I promise.
0:12:44 > 0:12:45I agree with most of it.
0:12:45 > 0:12:49It's just the ludicrous excesses that I can't put up with.
0:12:49 > 0:12:50Zara never takes any prisoners.
0:12:50 > 0:12:52I can tell.
0:12:52 > 0:12:54You two must have a feisty time of it.
0:12:54 > 0:12:56I suspect if more women had your attitude,
0:12:56 > 0:12:59workshops like these wouldn't be quite so necessary.
0:13:02 > 0:13:06Go on, then, you must be gagging to go and tell her what you really think about her.
0:13:06 > 0:13:10Especially after she pulled out the whole "all men are rapists" line.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12I think she's a very smart,
0:13:12 > 0:13:15thoughtful woman who cares deeply about these issues.
0:13:15 > 0:13:17Nice try, no coconut. Supper's on you.
0:13:21 > 0:13:25So, how's the sugar ban at The Mill working out?
0:13:25 > 0:13:31- Well, our energy levels are certainly more stable in the afternoon, but...- But?
0:13:32 > 0:13:37Well, you can't force people to live a more healthier lifestyle. You can't.
0:13:37 > 0:13:41Why make someone feel bad about something that makes them feel good?
0:13:41 > 0:13:44Yes or no, Al, is the sugar ban working or not?
0:13:44 > 0:13:46I'm thinking of pushing for one here.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48I think we should set an example, all of us.
0:13:48 > 0:13:50Set an example?
0:13:50 > 0:13:52I don't know about you, but I signed up to be a doctor,
0:13:52 > 0:13:55not some poster child for healthy living.
0:13:55 > 0:13:59Yeah, but here you are, you've been weighed, we're talking about your
0:13:59 > 0:14:02blood sugar levels, we're awaiting results on your cholesterol.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05And you've lost two pounds since your last visit.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08Yeah, and both of those pounds were my choice. My choice!
0:14:08 > 0:14:11So are you saying that the sugar ban hasn't nudged your choice?
0:14:11 > 0:14:16Made you a teensy bit more conscious about the decisions you make regarding your health?
0:14:17 > 0:14:20Yes or no, Al? Is the sugar ban working?
0:14:22 > 0:14:24PHONE RINGS
0:14:24 > 0:14:27Are you going to get that?
0:14:27 > 0:14:30Hi, Victoria? Great, the results are back?
0:14:30 > 0:14:36The idea is to look at how appropriate language is when dealing with trans patients.
0:14:36 > 0:14:41Zara, Daniel is Kelly. Kelly identifies herself as a woman.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44She is in the process of transitioning from male to female.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46Daniel...
0:14:46 > 0:14:47Kelly.
0:14:47 > 0:14:48Kelly.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51So, I understand there's been some bleeding since the operation?
0:14:51 > 0:14:54- Yes.- What treatment do you suggest for the patient?
0:14:54 > 0:14:57I haven't finished his consultation yet. There may be an infection.
0:14:57 > 0:14:58Her consultation.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00This isn't trying to trip you up -
0:15:00 > 0:15:03it's to illustrate how easily the problems can arise.
0:15:03 > 0:15:05OK, I could be more thoughtful.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09Although to be honest, it's rather difficult when you're doing this
0:15:09 > 0:15:11with someone who's your real life partner.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14OK. Let's make it easy. I'll be Kelly.
0:15:14 > 0:15:16Thank you very much.
0:15:17 > 0:15:18So?
0:15:18 > 0:15:22You were six point three. Guess were you are now?
0:15:23 > 0:15:28Well, I can't read your handwriting, so...five point three?
0:15:28 > 0:15:30Five!
0:15:31 > 0:15:35Your HDLs are up, your LDLs and your triglycerides are both down.
0:15:35 > 0:15:36Well done!
0:15:36 > 0:15:40And your blood shows that your liver and renal function, normal.
0:15:40 > 0:15:41KNOCKING
0:15:41 > 0:15:43But we're not done.
0:15:44 > 0:15:46We need to deal with your smoking, Al.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50We can go through the options.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52I know the options, thank you very much.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54I'm a doctor myself.
0:15:54 > 0:15:57I'm not going to chew gum, or wear patches,
0:15:57 > 0:15:59or those ridiculous electronic devices, OK?
0:15:59 > 0:16:01I'm a smoker, that's my choice.
0:16:01 > 0:16:03I'm rather good at it. Suits me.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06OK, shall we cut out the deflection tactics,
0:16:06 > 0:16:08and behave like medical professionals.
0:16:08 > 0:16:12One doctor to another... you need to stop smoking
0:16:12 > 0:16:17because there's a good chance it will kill you. Understand?
0:16:17 > 0:16:18Do you understand?
0:16:18 > 0:16:21Yes, I understand, all right? I understand!
0:16:23 > 0:16:26I would refer you back to your surgeon. He's very good.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29At least, he was a "he" last time I checked.
0:16:29 > 0:16:31Not that I check.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34Was the flippant comment appropriate, Daniel?
0:16:34 > 0:16:36I wouldn't say it to a real patient.
0:16:36 > 0:16:38Or a real transgender person?
0:16:38 > 0:16:39No. Course not.
0:16:39 > 0:16:40You assume that I'm not.
0:16:42 > 0:16:43Are you?
0:16:44 > 0:16:45Yes.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49OK. Which way?
0:16:49 > 0:16:51I mean... That was a...
0:16:51 > 0:16:53That was, er...
0:16:53 > 0:16:56I meant to say, good for you.
0:16:56 > 0:17:00It is good for you, isn't it?
0:17:00 > 0:17:04What? It's perfectly normal to make a joke.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08Does a slightly thoughtless joke have to be sinister?
0:17:08 > 0:17:12Thoughtless? You should've read the briefing notes.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15That was tame compared to some of the stuff I've had thrown at me.
0:17:15 > 0:17:17I was married before I transitioned
0:17:17 > 0:17:20so I had two angry, upset families to deal with.
0:17:20 > 0:17:23I get that, but attitude doesn't change overnight.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25I mean, think back, ten years ago,
0:17:25 > 0:17:28how many of us would have been happy to be so candid about all of this?
0:17:28 > 0:17:32It's going to take time to completely change that.
0:17:32 > 0:17:35Right, I'll throw this out to the room. Why should I wait?
0:17:35 > 0:17:37Hear, hear.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39I can't say that you should.
0:17:39 > 0:17:44But is confrontation, arguing, going to get you anywhere quicker?
0:17:44 > 0:17:45This is why he should leave!
0:17:45 > 0:17:47Oh, do be quiet!
0:17:47 > 0:17:52He doesn't understand and he doesn't respect the issues. He doesn't think there's a problem!
0:17:52 > 0:17:53On the contrary,
0:17:53 > 0:17:56he's discussing the issues in a respectful and adult manner.
0:17:56 > 0:17:57I'm with Zara.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00His attitude is oppressive. He's not playing devil's advocate.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02This is what he actually thinks!
0:18:02 > 0:18:04No. It's exactly why I asked him to stay.
0:18:04 > 0:18:06Daniel's only asking questions.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09And, to be honest with you, I used to ask myself
0:18:09 > 0:18:12a lot of those questions and didn't have any easy answers.
0:18:12 > 0:18:14Daniel, thank you for your contribution.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25The "which way" thing - classy.
0:18:25 > 0:18:29I wonder if she had as good legs before she was a woman.
0:18:29 > 0:18:31You certainly got a good enough look at them.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37Just out of curiosity... what is your real name?
0:18:37 > 0:18:39- My real name?- Yeah.
0:18:39 > 0:18:43Maria, but that's a really inappropriate question.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45I, personally, am OK with it,
0:18:45 > 0:18:48but it's an invitation to focus on a time
0:18:48 > 0:18:49when many transgender people
0:18:49 > 0:18:53were probably deeply unhappy and unable to be their real selves.
0:18:53 > 0:18:57Daniel needs to think before he opens his mouth.
0:19:00 > 0:19:05You just couldn't help yourself, could you? One point to me!
0:19:16 > 0:19:19Excuse me, can I have a word?
0:19:19 > 0:19:24Sorry. It's just, it's probably nothing but I noticed that you were scratching at that mole...
0:19:24 > 0:19:26Were you staring at my breasts?
0:19:26 > 0:19:29No. I just wondered if it had changed shape recently.
0:19:29 > 0:19:31You were staring at my breasts!
0:19:31 > 0:19:34No, no, no. I noticed it, and its colour and its shape concerns me,
0:19:34 > 0:19:37so I thought best to bring it up and maybe you can go and see your GP,
0:19:37 > 0:19:39or maybe we could have a look at it.
0:19:39 > 0:19:41- You can have a better look?- Yeah.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44No, not that. I can organise for a woman doctor to...
0:19:44 > 0:19:47Is this how you deal with strong women?
0:19:47 > 0:19:49Belittle them, humiliate them?
0:19:49 > 0:19:50No. It...
0:19:53 > 0:19:59Mike is confident, third date. "She likes me", he thinks.
0:19:59 > 0:20:01In his room, they start kissing
0:20:01 > 0:20:03and things get steamy.
0:20:03 > 0:20:08He starts to undress her, but he feels that she's not really into it.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12He asks, "You OK?" "Yeah, I'm fine," Polly says.
0:20:12 > 0:20:16But her body is rigid, tense, not relaxed.
0:20:16 > 0:20:18Should he stop?
0:20:24 > 0:20:27Daniel?
0:20:27 > 0:20:30Um... He's asked her if she's OK.
0:20:30 > 0:20:34She's not said "no." In fact, her answer suggests "yes."
0:20:34 > 0:20:36But we're talking about students,
0:20:36 > 0:20:40and we're saying that they behave rationally all the time.
0:20:40 > 0:20:43They don't. When I was that age I didn't understand myself, completely.
0:20:43 > 0:20:45I bet you didn't, either.
0:20:45 > 0:20:48I run a consent workshop. "Yeah, I'm fine" isn't consent.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50It's not "stop," either, is it, though?
0:20:50 > 0:20:53This scenario puts all the responsibility on him.
0:20:53 > 0:20:56Surely she has a responsibility that if she is uncomfortable,
0:20:56 > 0:21:00she has to say, "I'm not fine. Please stop."
0:21:00 > 0:21:01That's naive.
0:21:01 > 0:21:05Well, it's a way of saying there's a grey area.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08When I was that age, I would have thought, "result."
0:21:08 > 0:21:10So you're saying you'd have raped her?
0:21:10 > 0:21:13No, he's not. Sue, I've warned you about making things personal.
0:21:13 > 0:21:17The law is clear. There has to be consent or the reasonable belief consent is present.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19Maybe they've both been drinking.
0:21:19 > 0:21:24Maybe "I'm fine" is, in his mind, "Yes, she's enjoying it."
0:21:24 > 0:21:28Their hormones are raging, disconnecting their brains from reasonable thought.
0:21:28 > 0:21:30That is a rapist's charter.
0:21:30 > 0:21:34Some of the scenarios, absolutely, it's rape, yes.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37But others - it's not always that simple.
0:21:37 > 0:21:41I am not staying here with a Neanderthal sexist creep who justifies rape.
0:21:41 > 0:21:42It's a debate, which is good.
0:21:42 > 0:21:45If you were a real woman, you'd never take his side on...
0:21:47 > 0:21:48..on, um...
0:21:50 > 0:21:54Either... Either he goes or I go!
0:22:00 > 0:22:02Sue!
0:22:10 > 0:22:12Daniel! Don't!
0:22:13 > 0:22:15Sue, please just come back in.
0:22:15 > 0:22:17No, not with him there.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19Please, it's what it's about. It's a debate.
0:22:19 > 0:22:20No, it's not a debate.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22Sue. Mind if we...
0:22:25 > 0:22:30You think I'm an idiot, I get that, but I was not staring at your boobs.
0:22:30 > 0:22:31Now, more importantly,
0:22:31 > 0:22:35you need to get a potential medical problem checked out, straight away.
0:22:35 > 0:22:38Perhaps Zara can take a look for you...
0:22:39 > 0:22:42I've had enough of the double act. Fun's over.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49- What?- Um...
0:22:59 > 0:23:03So, to conclude, consent.
0:23:03 > 0:23:06If we think of it like tea...
0:23:06 > 0:23:08Tea?
0:23:08 > 0:23:11You...the general you, not you personally,
0:23:11 > 0:23:13you wouldn't force a woman to drink it,
0:23:13 > 0:23:17even if you went to the trouble of making it.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20We don't live in a world saturated with tea.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23We don't have mates telling us how much tea they've had.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26Our hormones aren't screaming at us to get tea.
0:23:26 > 0:23:28It's not the same thing.
0:23:31 > 0:23:33Daniel's tea-making isn't very good.
0:23:34 > 0:23:39It's drinkable, just. He likes it weak.
0:23:40 > 0:23:45Sometimes I don't fancy tea but he makes me one
0:23:45 > 0:23:50and I force it down because it's nice that he's made the effort.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54And other times, actually,
0:23:54 > 0:23:59first sip and it's just exactly what I want.
0:24:01 > 0:24:07But, you do all understand that I am only talking about tea?
0:24:19 > 0:24:22I'm waiting for Maria. I owe her an apology.
0:24:22 > 0:24:24No doubt you think you're so clever,
0:24:24 > 0:24:27but in the end, you're just working for the patriarchy.
0:24:27 > 0:24:28Both of you.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31Yeah, that's me. I'm all about the patriarchy!
0:24:31 > 0:24:34I don't really care what you think about me,
0:24:34 > 0:24:36but I wasn't staring at your boobs.
0:24:36 > 0:24:39Zara, please tell her that I would not put the fear of cancer
0:24:39 > 0:24:42into someone for the sake of a silly bit of letching.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47Of course not.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50If he says get it checked out, get it checked out.
0:24:58 > 0:24:59I did not lose the bet.
0:24:59 > 0:25:02I was not reverting to typical gender roles.
0:25:02 > 0:25:05You so were a typical male.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08Well, no more than you were a typical female!
0:25:08 > 0:25:10You're still doing it! You're still arguing.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13You cannot bear to be beaten by a woman!
0:25:13 > 0:25:17You could not be more your gender role.
0:25:17 > 0:25:19And don't sulk at me because of Mother Dungaree.
0:25:19 > 0:25:22You gave her advice, and she didn't take it.
0:25:22 > 0:25:25She didn't take the advice because of the seminar! And I'm not sulking!
0:25:28 > 0:25:30Have you seen her at the surgery?
0:25:30 > 0:25:34No. But if you really need to pursue this, call the campus.
0:25:39 > 0:25:43Karen, hi. It's Daniel. Yeah. Could you do me a favour, please?
0:25:43 > 0:25:46Could you check to see if we're got a Sue Gleeson registered?
0:25:46 > 0:25:49OK. Let me check for you. Yep.
0:25:54 > 0:25:56No. She's not registered here.
0:25:57 > 0:26:01OK, yeah. No problem. Bye.
0:26:01 > 0:26:05- So sorry to keep you waiting, what name is it, please? - No worries. It's James Dallow.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09- James Dallow. How are you spelling Dallow, James?- D-A-L-L-O-W.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12- Care to take a seat?- Thank you. - Thank you.
0:26:15 > 0:26:17Sulk over?
0:26:18 > 0:26:23I'll honour the bet. Buy you supper. That's not me conceding.
0:26:23 > 0:26:26If that's what your male pride needs to believe, then OK.
0:26:28 > 0:26:32We can talk about implementing the lessons from the workshop to The Mill.
0:26:32 > 0:26:36I was hoping for something a little more romantic.
0:26:36 > 0:26:39A lovely meal then, after,
0:26:39 > 0:26:44I might fancy an invigorating cup of builder's tea or perhaps
0:26:44 > 0:26:50something a little more refined, like a delicate cup of Darjeeling.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52I'm getting out of these clothes.
0:26:52 > 0:26:56Put the kettle on.
0:27:01 > 0:27:05- I was just thinking about Halloween. - That traumatic, is it?
0:27:05 > 0:27:08I was just wondering what I was going to do with Barney this year?
0:27:08 > 0:27:09Go big!
0:27:09 > 0:27:11This isn't an easy path to take,
0:27:11 > 0:27:15and if you do, then it will take a very long time.
0:27:15 > 0:27:17Believe me, I'm ready.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19- Are you happy, though?- What?
0:27:19 > 0:27:22You know, if you were with me, you'd be ecstatic.
0:27:22 > 0:27:24- Right.- It is.