0:00:02 > 0:00:06In February 2017, I was lucky enough to see the play
0:00:06 > 0:00:10I Told My Mum I Was Going On An RE Trip, in Manchester,
0:00:10 > 0:00:14when Contact and Liverpool-based 20 Stories High developed this
0:00:14 > 0:00:16piece of theatre about abortion.
0:00:16 > 0:00:20It's a verbatim piece made from hundreds of hours of interviews,
0:00:20 > 0:00:23with young women in Britain and in Northern Ireland.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26And you'll see that the four young actors have earpieces
0:00:26 > 0:00:29and are actually listening to the original recordings
0:00:29 > 0:00:31as they perform.
0:00:31 > 0:00:36The subject is challenging and some viewers might find it upsetting.
0:00:36 > 0:00:40But on the 50th anniversary of the legalisation of abortion in Britain,
0:00:40 > 0:00:45writer Julia Samuels explores the ways in which society deals with
0:00:45 > 0:00:49the subject, how it impacts on women today and, importantly,
0:00:49 > 0:00:53asks the question - what would happen if we started to talk
0:00:53 > 0:00:54openly about it?
0:00:54 > 0:01:02This programme contains some strong language and scenes which some viewers may find upsetting.
0:01:20 > 0:01:23Three, two, one, play.
0:01:23 > 0:01:26- RECORDING PLAYS THROUGH EARPHONES: - My name's Paige...
0:01:26 > 0:01:29My name's Paige. I've had three pregnancies, two with terminations,
0:01:29 > 0:01:32and one, I had a child.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36My first pregnancy, when I was 17, which I terminated.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40My second, I was 20, gave birth at 21.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44And then my third, I was still 21, six months after having
0:01:44 > 0:01:45my daughter, Paitlyn.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52I'm Leah, 22. I have four kids.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55I had my first child at 16,
0:01:55 > 0:02:01and I had the abortion at about 17.
0:02:01 > 0:02:02Em...
0:02:02 > 0:02:05I'm going to talk a wee bit about it.
0:02:06 > 0:02:09I'm Tanaya and I'm 24 years old,
0:02:09 > 0:02:12and when I was 16, I had an abortion.
0:02:12 > 0:02:16My impregnator was a 21-year-old drug dealer,
0:02:16 > 0:02:21and so it was just not ever going to be the right thing for me to do.
0:02:22 > 0:02:23One, two, one, two.
0:02:27 > 0:02:28This is Cousin on the mic.
0:02:30 > 0:02:35From Manchester to Liverpool to Belfast...
0:02:35 > 0:02:37to Harare, Zimbabwe.
0:02:40 > 0:02:44My story goes undocumented, unrecorded.
0:02:46 > 0:02:48But I have a story to tell.
0:02:51 > 0:02:52So check it.
0:02:58 > 0:02:59Like, any girl over here,
0:02:59 > 0:03:02we would be really uneducated about it, really.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05There's nothing over here for them, other than Google.
0:03:05 > 0:03:09Of course, we typed it into Google, all the horrific stories come up
0:03:09 > 0:03:11and the pictures come up.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20- Did you learn anything in school? - Never did anything about it
0:03:20 > 0:03:23in science, never did anything about it in, you know, social health...
0:03:23 > 0:03:25- Yeah.- ..or anything like that.
0:03:25 > 0:03:30It wasn't a very openly talked about thing, unless it was sort of
0:03:30 > 0:03:32in the nervous kind of joking sense.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34I know, like, a lot of young males
0:03:34 > 0:03:37like to joke about a lot of things, especially when it's a serious topic
0:03:37 > 0:03:41like this. So the only thing I'd ever really learned about it
0:03:41 > 0:03:45from friends was, like, jokes about like promiscuous girls
0:03:45 > 0:03:48getting abortions and whatnot, which is obviously false,
0:03:48 > 0:03:50but I think that's about it from like...
0:03:50 > 0:03:52- From friends?- Yeah. Mad friends.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57I had a pregnancy scare. I wasn't pregnant, but I was talking
0:03:57 > 0:04:00to my sister and I was going, "Oh, my God, I'm pregnant.
0:04:00 > 0:04:02"I'm going to have to get an abortion, I'm going to have
0:04:02 > 0:04:05"to get an abortion." And I was going, "Is it like how they say
0:04:05 > 0:04:09"in like Dirty Dancing?" I was just absolutely convinced
0:04:09 > 0:04:13that I was going to end up like Penny, just like on the bed
0:04:13 > 0:04:16with Patrick Swayze next to me, going, "What are you doing?!"
0:04:18 > 0:04:19It's a bit weird.
0:04:19 > 0:04:21- I think if I had Patrick Swayze next to me...- Yeah.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24- ..I would have gone through the process.- Yeah, me too!
0:04:28 > 0:04:31I went to a Catholic school, and in RE, I was shown
0:04:31 > 0:04:36an abortion video. Not only did it have what looked like
0:04:36 > 0:04:40a full-term baby shown on the screen, but it had, like,
0:04:40 > 0:04:41horror music with a piano.
0:04:41 > 0:04:43Like the Psycho music.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45- You know like?- Yeah. Psycho music.
0:04:45 > 0:04:47Proper "eee, eee, eee, eee, eee!"
0:04:47 > 0:04:49THEY GIGGLE
0:05:22 > 0:05:24When I found out I was pregnant the first time,
0:05:24 > 0:05:28I decided literally from the get-go.
0:05:28 > 0:05:31I explored the idea of keeping it, must have been for about
0:05:31 > 0:05:34ten, 15 minutes, and then I was just like, "No, it's not the right
0:05:34 > 0:05:38"thing to do." And cos my mum, the type of mum my mum is,
0:05:38 > 0:05:41she's like, "This is what you're supposed to do," as in you
0:05:41 > 0:05:44find somebody you love, then you buy a house, then you make babies,
0:05:44 > 0:05:46do you know what I mean?
0:05:46 > 0:05:49So, like, for me, I was just like, this is everything against
0:05:49 > 0:05:51what my mum wants. I've got nowhere to live,
0:05:51 > 0:05:53I'm still in school, like.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56He's not even my boyfriend. She just wouldn't have had it.
0:05:56 > 0:05:58Well, I thought not anyway.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03I was on another planet at that age.
0:06:03 > 0:06:08I didn't get on with my family at all and I was finding myself
0:06:08 > 0:06:11in this sort of spiral of like doing really bad things, rebelling.
0:06:13 > 0:06:17I did think about keeping the baby, on some occasions,
0:06:17 > 0:06:24but the sort of sense of, "Oh, my God, like, what would happen?"
0:06:24 > 0:06:27was just so overbearing, like.
0:06:27 > 0:06:29I thought that my mum would kill me.
0:06:29 > 0:06:34I remember I was at my boyfriend's house and I was smoking
0:06:34 > 0:06:36some weed, and I'd fallen asleep.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39And she was ringing me, and it was two o'clock in the morning,
0:06:39 > 0:06:42and eventually I called her back and she was like,
0:06:42 > 0:06:45"Where are you?" She was going to kill me, etc, etc.
0:06:45 > 0:06:48She came to pick me up and then my sister
0:06:48 > 0:06:51was driving, and my mum took her shoe off and she was hitting me
0:06:51 > 0:06:54with it. My sister was like, "Don't do it now, do it when
0:06:54 > 0:06:56"we get home."
0:06:56 > 0:07:00We got home and my mum got a knife from the kitchen cupboard,
0:07:00 > 0:07:01and she was just like...
0:07:02 > 0:07:06The things that she was saying were about, like, you...
0:07:06 > 0:07:08What... SHE SIGHS
0:07:08 > 0:07:11It's hard to translate this directly into English, but it was
0:07:11 > 0:07:17sort of like, "What you're doing to my, like, respect,
0:07:17 > 0:07:19"like what you're doing to my standard in the community,
0:07:19 > 0:07:21"I won't have it, I won't have it."
0:07:21 > 0:07:23That was just me staying out somewhere till
0:07:23 > 0:07:25two o'clock in the morning.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28Imagine what it would have been like
0:07:28 > 0:07:30if I'd have come home and said I was pregnant?
0:07:31 > 0:07:34The second time I got pregnant, so Paul, my partner, was in the house
0:07:34 > 0:07:37with his two kids. So I just walked straight past him,
0:07:37 > 0:07:40went in the bathroom, shut the door and done the test,
0:07:40 > 0:07:43and I was like this, sat waiting.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47And then when it said positive, I was just sobbing on the toilet.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50So, by this point, he was like, "What's going on? Let me in
0:07:50 > 0:07:52"the bathroom." So he ended up picking the lock with a knife
0:07:52 > 0:07:56and come in. And I was just sobbing and he was just like...
0:07:56 > 0:07:58He thought I'd lost a job or something,
0:07:58 > 0:07:59so I picked the pregnancy test up
0:07:59 > 0:08:01and threw it at him and went, "I'm pregnant."
0:08:01 > 0:08:04So then he was like, "Why are you crying? That's good news."
0:08:04 > 0:08:06But I didn't think it was at the time.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09I was like, "How on Earth is that good news? I'm going to lose uni,
0:08:09 > 0:08:11"I'm going to lose my job, blah, blah, blah."
0:08:11 > 0:08:12It's just not the right time.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15And he was sobbing, saying, "Oh, please, please, please.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17"I want to you to keep it," and all that.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20And in my head, from that point, I was like,
0:08:20 > 0:08:23"I'm not having this baby, one bit."
0:08:27 > 0:08:29I'll be honest, I'm not very responsible.
0:08:29 > 0:08:32So I was sort of like taking the pill one day,
0:08:32 > 0:08:34then not taking it the other.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38I just assumed that however much I was taking, that would be enough
0:08:38 > 0:08:42to, like, you know, stop a baby from occurring.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46So then, right, I decided, OK, I'm going to go to the Brook.
0:08:46 > 0:08:48And I went with my boyfriend and when she said,
0:08:48 > 0:08:53"I'd like to inform you that you are pregnant," that moment, I just
0:08:53 > 0:08:54felt sick straightaway.
0:08:54 > 0:08:57I mean, all the questions of, like,
0:08:57 > 0:09:01my college, everything, my ambitions, my boyfriend.
0:09:01 > 0:09:03I also remember me being really dramatic, like,
0:09:03 > 0:09:07"My family is Muslim!" Like, "I'm having an abortion."
0:09:07 > 0:09:11I was just really angry, like, "Of course I can't keep it!"
0:09:11 > 0:09:14- Abortion's still illegal in Ireland. - Is it?
0:09:15 > 0:09:18- Now?- They have pure protests and pure, like, Irish people
0:09:18 > 0:09:19- and all that.- So you can't...
0:09:19 > 0:09:21There's nowhere to get an abortion in Ireland?
0:09:21 > 0:09:23- Or Northern Ireland. - Or Northern Ireland?
0:09:23 > 0:09:25No, but they have, like, people online over there who sell tablets
0:09:25 > 0:09:28what can trigger abortions and stuff like that. But these are the extents
0:09:28 > 0:09:31- what the girls over there have to go through.- Oh, my God.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35I was pregnant when I was 16, with Ashley,
0:09:35 > 0:09:38and I kind of knew it was my decision to have her.
0:09:38 > 0:09:45And then March 2012, I got pregnant again and I decided that it
0:09:45 > 0:09:51was the wrong time and that's when I thought, like, I had to have
0:09:51 > 0:09:56the abortion. I just thought about Ashley, her dad wasn't about,
0:09:56 > 0:10:00so I thought I had to give her my 110% attention.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03So, she kind of made the decision a bit easier as well.
0:10:03 > 0:10:07And I couldn't... Like, mentally, I had depression and stuff.
0:10:07 > 0:10:11I just thought having this baby's not for me, not at this time.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14And then I told my mum straightaway because I knew I needed
0:10:14 > 0:10:16help to have the abortion.
0:10:16 > 0:10:19So, she was just kind of like,
0:10:19 > 0:10:21"It's your decision. It's your choice.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24"I'll support you either way."
0:10:24 > 0:10:26And...
0:10:26 > 0:10:27Well, for like us, we have to...
0:10:27 > 0:10:30I had to go to my doctor and I told him
0:10:30 > 0:10:32I wanted to have an abortion.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35And he was very much against it and said that he wouldn't advise me
0:10:35 > 0:10:38to do it and wouldn't put me in contact with anybody to do it, so...
0:10:47 > 0:10:51It didn't matter what anybody thought they knew.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55It didn't matter, cos we snuck around and hid the truth.
0:10:57 > 0:11:02It didn't matter, cos his heart was mine, and mine his, entwined.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08But after seeing two pink lines, I knew there were two hearts
0:11:08 > 0:11:11beating inside of me.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13Couldn't believe, cried so hard I couldn't breathe.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20This would be the end of my life, if they knew I had a baby.
0:11:22 > 0:11:27# I never knew I could feel this way
0:11:27 > 0:11:33# About someone, it's kind of crazy
0:11:33 > 0:11:38# But there's something about you
0:11:38 > 0:11:43# That's got me breaking the rules
0:11:44 > 0:11:47# Ooh
0:11:50 > 0:11:53# Breaking the rules
0:11:55 > 0:11:59# Aah
0:12:01 > 0:12:06# Aah, aah
0:12:06 > 0:12:09# Ooh, ooh. #
0:12:18 > 0:12:23So, they sent me off to have the scan and they put that stuff
0:12:23 > 0:12:27on your belly that feels like hand sanitizer, really cold!
0:12:27 > 0:12:31And then, at that point, the screen was facing me
0:12:31 > 0:12:36and I just remember feeling like, this is such a grown-up thing,
0:12:36 > 0:12:40I can't believe, like, I'm here doing such a grown-up thing.
0:12:40 > 0:12:43And the scan lady said, "Oh, are you keeping this baby?"
0:12:43 > 0:12:46And I said, "No." So she just turned the screen round.
0:12:46 > 0:12:50I then had to go to Manchester Pregnancy Advisory Service.
0:12:50 > 0:12:54No-one could accompany me to that, so I went on my own,
0:12:54 > 0:12:56and then I...
0:12:57 > 0:13:01I went into the room and it was my family GP.
0:13:01 > 0:13:05And I was just like, "I can't believe, like, my family GP
0:13:05 > 0:13:08"who's been my family GP since I was, like, a baby,
0:13:08 > 0:13:12"moonlights as an abortion doctor!"
0:13:12 > 0:13:14And he's also Bengali.
0:13:14 > 0:13:18And so then, it was just...
0:13:18 > 0:13:20Well, you know, of course he can't say anything, but as soon as
0:13:20 > 0:13:23they came out of the room, when it was done, I changed doctors
0:13:23 > 0:13:24really quickly!
0:13:27 > 0:13:30If people have got goals in life -
0:13:30 > 0:13:33so they're 16 years old, they're planning on doing A-levels,
0:13:33 > 0:13:39then uni - they, more often than not, choose termination.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43If they're 16 years old and they say, "Ah, he's very nice
0:13:43 > 0:13:46"and I might as well just have the baby. He's already got two
0:13:46 > 0:13:48"to somebody else, but..."
0:13:48 > 0:13:52If they haven't got any other life goal, then having a baby
0:13:52 > 0:13:56seems to be their goal, which is OK.
0:13:57 > 0:14:00What we've got to be is completely non-judgmental.
0:14:00 > 0:14:04So you might think, "Oh, God, here you are again.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07"Now, you're 19, you've had three terminations in the past,"
0:14:07 > 0:14:09it might be quite irritating to us.
0:14:09 > 0:14:12But we don't let that show.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15Cos the one thing that I always say to them is,
0:14:15 > 0:14:19"The decision you make today is right for you today.
0:14:19 > 0:14:21"It's nobody else's business.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25"So it might be different next year, it might be different
0:14:25 > 0:14:30"in five years' time, but today you're making the right decision."
0:14:30 > 0:14:33Our Paige said to me, "I'm going to go to the doctors and talk about
0:14:33 > 0:14:35"my options," is what she said to me.
0:14:35 > 0:14:37And I just said to her, "Paige, you've got no options
0:14:37 > 0:14:40"at the end of the day, because if you get rid of this baby,
0:14:40 > 0:14:43"then I just don't know if I could have ever spoke to her again,"
0:14:43 > 0:14:44because I just thought...
0:14:45 > 0:14:48I don't know, I just think it's selfish, to be honest.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50I just think it's really selfish.
0:14:50 > 0:14:52I think if you're going to get pregnant,
0:14:52 > 0:14:54you need to take on the responsibility.
0:14:54 > 0:14:59Why should we decide whether somebody lives or dies?
0:14:59 > 0:15:00Do you know what I mean?
0:15:00 > 0:15:02No, not "somebody", Sherry Ann.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05If it was somebody who'd already been born, we don't get to make
0:15:05 > 0:15:07the choice whether somebody lives or dies
0:15:07 > 0:15:10once they're already here. So what makes it any different
0:15:10 > 0:15:12when they're inside your stomach? Do you know what I mean?
0:15:12 > 0:15:15You was here telling me not to get rid of it, our Zoe was in here
0:15:15 > 0:15:16telling me not to get rid of it.
0:15:16 > 0:15:19My mum was saying, "I'm not saying nothin'."
0:15:19 > 0:15:23But, basically, subliminally telling me not to get rid of it,
0:15:23 > 0:15:28and I thought, "No, I need to just remove myself from what
0:15:28 > 0:15:31"all them people are saying," and this needs to be my decision.
0:15:31 > 0:15:33Your decision.
0:15:33 > 0:15:37So, if it turns out that I do want to get rid of this baby
0:15:37 > 0:15:41- and Sherry Ann hates me, I'm sure she'll come round in the end.- Yeah.
0:15:41 > 0:15:45Cos what will I do if I have this baby and I cannot take care of her?
0:15:46 > 0:15:51That's when they told me that you could have the tablet.
0:15:51 > 0:15:55You have a tablet and then you miscarry.
0:15:55 > 0:15:59Or you could have the... I think it was called something like...
0:15:59 > 0:16:01Something like evacuation or something,
0:16:01 > 0:16:04I can't remember what it was called, but they suck it out.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06Vacuum something.
0:16:06 > 0:16:08Vacuumasperosis!
0:16:08 > 0:16:10I can't remember what it was called!
0:16:11 > 0:16:15It's just all words. When you're 16 years old, they don't mean anything.
0:16:15 > 0:16:20But I decided that I'd prefer to have that one and, unfortunately,
0:16:20 > 0:16:24I wasn't far enough along, it has to be after six weeks.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27And I just remember, like, it was really hard.
0:16:30 > 0:16:32I booked a doctor's appointment.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34So she done this thing and she was like,
0:16:34 > 0:16:36"Oh, my God, you're five months pregnant."
0:16:36 > 0:16:38So I was like, "Oh, my God, no!"
0:16:38 > 0:16:40So she was like, "Why are you crying?"
0:16:40 > 0:16:44And I was like, "Cos that means it's too late to get an abortion."
0:16:44 > 0:16:46So she was like, "We're going to have to send you for a scan
0:16:46 > 0:16:48"to see how exactly how far you're on."
0:16:48 > 0:16:52Cos you could get an abortion up to 18 to 20 weeks,
0:16:52 > 0:16:55but not in Liverpool, nowhere in Liverpool does it.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58So she was like, "Just before that point, you will still be able
0:16:58 > 0:17:01"to get it." But in my head, I was thinking, "I can't cos it's
0:17:01 > 0:17:03"a full blown baby then."
0:17:03 > 0:17:06So I was like, "Oh, God. I went to the appointment and our Shana
0:17:06 > 0:17:08came with me.
0:17:08 > 0:17:10And then they done the scan, but they don't let you see it
0:17:10 > 0:17:12when you're supposed to be at an abortion.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15They say, "We're not going to show you it, it's just to see how
0:17:15 > 0:17:18"far you are." So then the woman done it and our Shana was looking
0:17:18 > 0:17:21at the screen and as soon as she seen it, she was like,
0:17:21 > 0:17:24"Oh, my God!" So then I was like to the woman, "I want to see it,"
0:17:24 > 0:17:27and she was like, "I really don't think that's a good..."
0:17:27 > 0:17:29And I was like, "No, I want to see it."
0:17:29 > 0:17:32And then as soon as I seen it, I was just like,
0:17:32 > 0:17:36"Oh, my God, having an abortion, I can't."
0:17:39 > 0:17:42Well, we went home and discussed everything with my mum
0:17:42 > 0:17:46and she done all the googling, all the research, and spoke it over
0:17:46 > 0:17:49with me. It was hard, it was difficult.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52We told so many lies to get the money.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54It was unbelievable.
0:17:55 > 0:17:58And I had to get, like, a fast-track passport the day before
0:17:58 > 0:18:02and that was like £110 on top of 80 something for the flights
0:18:02 > 0:18:04and then £800 for the abortion.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08I definitely think there should be more fight
0:18:08 > 0:18:10for it to be legal over here.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16I just think that if it becomes legalised here,
0:18:16 > 0:18:19then I think more and more people will become more careless
0:18:19 > 0:18:21and then more and more people have abortions.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23I just feel like it's murdering someone.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26Like, I just don't understand how you could just kill something
0:18:26 > 0:18:28so precious that's living inside of you.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32And it's technically your fault, unless it was due to something
0:18:32 > 0:18:34with like, like rape or something like that.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37And if people don't have to live with consequences,
0:18:37 > 0:18:40then they're not going to change their actions.
0:18:40 > 0:18:42I'd just like to...
0:18:42 > 0:18:47I'll say that, everyone is entitled to their own opinion
0:18:47 > 0:18:51and everyone should have a choice, which is hence the pro-choice.
0:18:51 > 0:18:55I feel like if you're on the pro-choice end, you're saying yes
0:18:55 > 0:18:58to both. You are entitled to have a child if you want
0:18:58 > 0:19:01and you're entitled to abort the child if you want.
0:19:01 > 0:19:04If you're on the pro-life end, you're just taking that choice away,
0:19:04 > 0:19:07and I feel like a choice is a human right.
0:19:10 > 0:19:15I also had to schedule it around my exams, because my college
0:19:15 > 0:19:18is a Catholic college. So I could get away with saying that I had
0:19:18 > 0:19:23an RE trip. So I told my mum I was going on an RE trip
0:19:23 > 0:19:27and I needed to be at Piccadilly Bus Station for seven o'clock
0:19:27 > 0:19:30in the morning in order to get to the clinic by half past eight,
0:19:30 > 0:19:34so you could have that day without being kept overnight.
0:19:34 > 0:19:36Because I'm not allowed to... Well, at that age,
0:19:36 > 0:19:38I wasn't allowed to stay out overnight.
0:19:46 > 0:19:48Hiding in the shadows.
0:19:50 > 0:19:51You ask a friend.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57She knows a friend who knows a friend of a friend.
0:20:02 > 0:20:06And then late one night, it comes back to you.
0:20:09 > 0:20:10An address.
0:20:12 > 0:20:17Number 23 Rukuhia Street, Epworth.
0:20:20 > 0:20:21And the price...
0:20:25 > 0:20:28..100.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41My partner, he was still kind of like a wee teenage boy.
0:20:41 > 0:20:45He wasn't really supportive, he didn't really care.
0:20:45 > 0:20:48He didn't worry about how I got there or where I was getting
0:20:48 > 0:20:50the money to get it done.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58When I was pregnant the first time, and obviously the lad I was seeing,
0:20:58 > 0:21:01I'd been seeing him for years, but he was a bellend, you know
0:21:01 > 0:21:02what I mean?
0:21:02 > 0:21:05So I said straightaway, "Well, I'm getting an abortion anyway."
0:21:05 > 0:21:07And he was like, "It's not just your baby, it's not just your choice
0:21:07 > 0:21:10"to make." And I was like, "No, mate, but it's my body
0:21:10 > 0:21:13"and you're not even committing to me now, so why am I going
0:21:13 > 0:21:15"to have a baby for you to leave the both of us?"
0:21:17 > 0:21:21My boyfriend was really supportive, actually.
0:21:21 > 0:21:24I remember he said that if I wanted to keep the baby that he would
0:21:24 > 0:21:28tell his mum and we would be able to sort it out,
0:21:28 > 0:21:31but I just kind of saw that as an annoyance, really.
0:21:31 > 0:21:34Just thinking, "Don't make me feel any emotion
0:21:34 > 0:21:36"towards this thing."
0:21:38 > 0:21:41But then, on reflection, obviously, that was a really kind thing
0:21:41 > 0:21:43that he'd offered to do.
0:21:43 > 0:21:46The night before, he was like out drinking or something.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49And I sent him a message, like, "Are you being fucking serious, like?
0:21:49 > 0:21:52"I'm going for an abortion in the morning, it's two o'clock
0:21:52 > 0:21:55"and you're absolutely out getting drunk and doing whatever."
0:21:57 > 0:22:00But say you're not you...
0:22:00 > 0:22:02OK, I'm not me.
0:22:02 > 0:22:06- Shut up. And a girl gets pregnant.- Yes.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09- And you...- Wait, am I me or...?
0:22:09 > 0:22:13- What?- Am I not me? - No, no, this other person.- Yeah.
0:22:13 > 0:22:17And you get this girl pregnant and she...
0:22:19 > 0:22:21- You don't want her to get rid of the baby.- Yes.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23- And she wants to get rid of it. - Yeah.
0:22:23 > 0:22:26- Do you think that's fine? - That's her choice.
0:22:26 > 0:22:30- And do you think that's right? - Well, yeah, because it's up to her,
0:22:30 > 0:22:32she's going through it, do you know what I mean?
0:22:32 > 0:22:34And if she really wants the abortion, I'd say,
0:22:34 > 0:22:37"Listen, you know, my point of view, there's nothing more I can do."
0:22:37 > 0:22:39Yeah, but it...
0:22:40 > 0:22:43- It's sly, yeah.- It's proper unfair.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47- It's unfair, but that's... - Like, I know it's her choice to do
0:22:47 > 0:22:53whatever she wants to do with her body, but it's also his baby.
0:22:53 > 0:22:54Yeah.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58- That's when you'd have a conversation.- I'm sure...
0:23:00 > 0:23:06..a baby is more important than a body. But then I think, again,
0:23:06 > 0:23:12after saying that, if I was in that situation and a lad really
0:23:12 > 0:23:14wanted to keep the baby...
0:23:17 > 0:23:20..I don't know what I could do, because I don't know if I could,
0:23:20 > 0:23:26like, carry this baby in me for so long and then just let it go and not
0:23:26 > 0:23:28do anything for this child.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34But then, I don't want it killed.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36- So what would you do?- I'd say no!
0:23:36 > 0:23:38- Cos the time's ticking. - I'd probably kill myself!
0:23:40 > 0:23:43- Then you're killing you and the baby.- I know, I might as well
0:23:43 > 0:23:44just kill the baby!
0:23:46 > 0:23:48- No, I don't mean that.- No.
0:23:48 > 0:23:52The time I was pregnant with Paitlyn, well, Paul, my partner,
0:23:52 > 0:23:55had put pure emotional pressure on me to have the baby.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58So then, this time when I got caught pregnant again,
0:23:58 > 0:24:00well, I knew straightaway what I needed to do.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02I couldn't manage another baby.
0:24:02 > 0:24:04I didn't want to tell Paul before I'd done it,
0:24:04 > 0:24:06I didn't want him getting in my head and making me
0:24:06 > 0:24:08do something that I didn't want to do.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10The relationship already wasn't in a good place,
0:24:10 > 0:24:13and he wouldn't do anything to help me with Paitlyn, wouldn't even
0:24:13 > 0:24:15change a nappy.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17Like, he was there, but not there, if you know what I mean?
0:24:17 > 0:24:20So I just went and had the procedure and decided I'd tell him
0:24:20 > 0:24:21when it's all over.
0:24:23 > 0:24:27When I decided to specialise in obstetrics and gynaecology,
0:24:27 > 0:24:31at that time, everyone did abortion.
0:24:31 > 0:24:32And so, I just did abortions,
0:24:32 > 0:24:37and I didn't really stop to think about whether it was good or bad or
0:24:37 > 0:24:38how I felt about it.
0:24:40 > 0:24:45But I suppose, over the years, I've become more of an advocate
0:24:45 > 0:24:48for the need to provide abortion care.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53So I think we need to recognise that a woman's lifetime chance
0:24:53 > 0:24:56of having an abortion in the United Kingdom is one in three,
0:24:56 > 0:25:03and so I find myself thinking that gynaecologists should
0:25:03 > 0:25:07do abortions and that if you don't want to do abortions,
0:25:07 > 0:25:12then perhaps you should think about taking another speciality,
0:25:12 > 0:25:15so become a dermatologist or a chest physician,
0:25:15 > 0:25:16or something like that.
0:25:18 > 0:25:23I'm a Christian and I am a gynaecologist, but I personally
0:25:23 > 0:25:27have chosen not to do abortions because I feel very strongly
0:25:27 > 0:25:34that the pregnancy that is developing is a mini person
0:25:34 > 0:25:36that is created in the image of God.
0:25:36 > 0:25:40And whilst I don't judge other doctors for performing abortions,
0:25:40 > 0:25:43and I know that most doctors don't like to do abortions,
0:25:43 > 0:25:46but they choose to do them for people to have choices,
0:25:46 > 0:25:49I don't feel that's something that I am able to do.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55The problem becomes if you work in a hospital where two or three doctors
0:25:55 > 0:25:58say, "No, I won't do abortions because it's against my religion,"
0:25:58 > 0:26:03the burden then falls on a small number of others,
0:26:03 > 0:26:06who then become fed up with being asked to do all the abortions
0:26:06 > 0:26:10and then they eventually react by saying, "Well, I'm not going
0:26:10 > 0:26:11"to do them any more either."
0:26:11 > 0:26:16So, eventually, you end up with very few gynaecologists prepared
0:26:16 > 0:26:18to do abortions.
0:26:18 > 0:26:21- They're not humans yet, Sherry Ann. - They are humans. They're not growing
0:26:21 > 0:26:24into Martians, they're growing into babies.
0:26:24 > 0:26:27But what I'm saying is they're not anything yet, they're cells,
0:26:27 > 0:26:29- they're a mass of cells. - So where should life start?
0:26:29 > 0:26:33- So where should we have rights? - Once you enter the world,
0:26:33 > 0:26:37independently, breathing for yourself. Not an umbilical cord...
0:26:37 > 0:26:41- So then that means that you should be able to have abortions... - ..connected to my stomach, babe.
0:26:41 > 0:26:43..until full-term. So you should be able to have abortions
0:26:43 > 0:26:45until you're full-term, then?
0:26:45 > 0:26:47That's what you've just basically said,
0:26:47 > 0:26:50you should be able to have an abortion until you're full-term.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53- It shouldn't have rights until it's come out.- No.
0:26:53 > 0:26:56Obviously, there should be laws to how far you can do it,
0:26:56 > 0:27:01because obviously it feels pain and whatever, whatever,
0:27:01 > 0:27:06but if the cells have not got a brain, they cannot feel pain.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09Sherry Ann, they can't feel nothin'!
0:27:09 > 0:27:12You can't be for abortion if you're going to say,
0:27:12 > 0:27:15"But when they can feel, it's wrong."
0:27:17 > 0:27:20- Yeah.- No. How's that make sense?
0:27:20 > 0:27:25I don't agree with doing it while you can feel that it's a baby,
0:27:25 > 0:27:28and you can get a scan and you can see it's got a head,
0:27:28 > 0:27:31it's got arms, it's got legs, it's got a willy.
0:27:31 > 0:27:33None of that. But if I was...
0:27:33 > 0:27:37Well, babe, look at my 13-week scan, it's got a head, it's got a body,
0:27:37 > 0:27:38it's got arms, it's got legs.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43- I wouldn't get one then.- But you would, because how far were you
0:27:43 > 0:27:45when you got one?
0:27:45 > 0:27:46Eight weeks.
0:27:48 > 0:27:50Well, are you sure about that?
0:27:51 > 0:27:54It's partly an emotional thing, because there is no doubt that
0:27:54 > 0:27:59as the foetus grows, it becomes less like a ball of cells
0:27:59 > 0:28:04and becomes a baby, becomes a recognisable object
0:28:04 > 0:28:06which looks just like a baby.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08And once you start to see foetal movements,
0:28:08 > 0:28:15it feels more of a cruel procedure and, depending on how it's done,
0:28:15 > 0:28:18it's also an unpleasant procedure.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21So dilatation and evacuation, when you're pulling out bits of
0:28:21 > 0:28:24foetuses is extremely unpleasant.
0:28:24 > 0:28:28So people automatically, I think, react by saying,
0:28:28 > 0:28:30"Well, I think I'll stop at 12 weeks."
0:28:30 > 0:28:35As we know, abortion law allows us to abort to 24 weeks
0:28:35 > 0:28:37and sometimes even later.
0:28:37 > 0:28:40But I don't think there's a sudden cut-off that you can say that
0:28:40 > 0:28:43this is... This is a foetus that
0:28:43 > 0:28:46doesn't have rights, and then it suddenly becomes a foetus
0:28:46 > 0:28:51that does have rights. And I guess my cut-off is at implantation,
0:28:51 > 0:28:54because that's very clear to me that life has begun at that point.
0:28:56 > 0:29:01But then I think you have to say, "Well, who are the women
0:29:01 > 0:29:05"who are having abortions beyond 12 weeks?"
0:29:05 > 0:29:11And, to me, those women are often less able to get their lives
0:29:11 > 0:29:15into control, and particularly the very late terminations,
0:29:15 > 0:29:20often the very young or the very old, in reproductive terms,
0:29:20 > 0:29:23who have taken a long time to recognise that they are pregnant
0:29:23 > 0:29:26or who have problems with mental health or something else.
0:29:27 > 0:29:33So, to me, if you're going to do abortions, then I think you have to
0:29:33 > 0:29:35say, "Well, why am I doing them?"
0:29:37 > 0:29:40If it is to make life better for those who have
0:29:40 > 0:29:44unintended pregnancies, then I don't see the logic
0:29:44 > 0:29:46in having a time limit.
0:29:59 > 0:30:01Saturday.
0:30:02 > 0:30:037:45am.
0:30:05 > 0:30:10She wakes up, splashes cold water on her face and takes out
0:30:10 > 0:30:14the piece of paper that's been burning a hole in her pocket
0:30:14 > 0:30:16for the past three days.
0:30:19 > 0:30:20So...
0:30:22 > 0:30:23..she steps on the bus.
0:30:25 > 0:30:27The 427 headed out of town.
0:30:30 > 0:30:33Shades on, eyes ahead, shoulders back.
0:30:36 > 0:30:39The eyes of the kid on the bus lock with hers.
0:30:39 > 0:30:41An old woman smiles.
0:30:41 > 0:30:46Disengage, headphones on, chin up, shoulders back.
0:30:49 > 0:30:55And her hand slowly falls and rests subconsciously on her belly.
0:30:55 > 0:30:57And I gently nod my head to the beat of the music.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01And the beat goes on.
0:31:05 > 0:31:07Bus brakes hard.
0:31:07 > 0:31:11Her white and gold Adidas shoes step off the bus
0:31:11 > 0:31:14into the heat and the dust of the midday sun.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18The eyes of the street vendors burn a hole in her back.
0:31:20 > 0:31:21Chin up.
0:31:23 > 0:31:25She looks defiantly on the door...
0:31:27 > 0:31:30..and waits for what seems to be forever and a day.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35Until an old woman answers.
0:31:37 > 0:31:39And says...
0:31:39 > 0:31:42"Come this way."
0:32:03 > 0:32:05The room is dark.
0:32:07 > 0:32:08Like a womb.
0:32:10 > 0:32:11Bed on the floor.
0:32:12 > 0:32:14Shiny metal on the table.
0:32:16 > 0:32:18Hips in the bowl.
0:32:20 > 0:32:23She lies down and waits.
0:32:24 > 0:32:27She closes her eyes and she waits.
0:32:29 > 0:32:30And she waits.
0:32:33 > 0:32:35And the beat goes on.
0:32:37 > 0:32:42Beat, beat, beat, beat.
0:32:42 > 0:32:46Tick, tick, tick.
0:32:46 > 0:32:50I remember having, like, butterflies in my stomach
0:32:50 > 0:32:54and just waking my mum up to talk to her about it.
0:32:54 > 0:32:56And then I remember being on the plane and just thinking,
0:32:56 > 0:32:58"I don't think I can do this."
0:32:58 > 0:33:01And my mum says, "It's your choice, you know, we can just take
0:33:01 > 0:33:04"the money and go shopping", cos she wanted to go shopping.
0:33:04 > 0:33:07But on the plane then, I thought, "No, I'm doing it.
0:33:07 > 0:33:09"I need to do it and I want to do it."
0:33:09 > 0:33:13But right up until the door, she was like, "You know, it's your choice,
0:33:13 > 0:33:14"it's your call."
0:33:14 > 0:33:17Have you been to that abortion clinic on Aigburth?
0:33:17 > 0:33:19Well, it's just like a big house.
0:33:19 > 0:33:23It's literally on a street and it was just like a dead big house.
0:33:23 > 0:33:28And then we landed in Liverpool and we got the taxi to the
0:33:28 > 0:33:32Merseyside Clinic, and it was just like a house type thing.
0:33:32 > 0:33:36So we went in, our Shana was with me, and we were in the waiting room
0:33:36 > 0:33:39and it was just, like, loads of people in there.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42I remember seeing an old Indian woman who was just smiling,
0:33:42 > 0:33:45like the whole time.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48Just... It's weird also to see another Asian person
0:33:48 > 0:33:50having an abortion.
0:33:50 > 0:33:51There was a girl in there that I'd went to
0:33:51 > 0:33:54school with and she was with her mum, but I don't know whether
0:33:54 > 0:33:57she was getting the abortion or her mum, because they both looked
0:33:57 > 0:34:01dead sad. But I just said hi to her and just sat down.
0:34:01 > 0:34:04I was like, "This is just not what I was expecting."
0:34:04 > 0:34:08Like, they had piles of magazines, little thingy water machines
0:34:08 > 0:34:11and tellies all round the room, and Jeremy Kyle was on.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14And everyone was just like getting on with what they were doing.
0:34:25 > 0:34:28They brought me into the room and... Of course, me and my mum,
0:34:28 > 0:34:31whenever she comes to hospital appointments, she doesn't leave.
0:34:31 > 0:34:34So she thought that she came with me, but they put her out and
0:34:34 > 0:34:38spoke to me. They asked if I did the scan and they asked
0:34:38 > 0:34:41if I wanted to have a picture of the scan.
0:34:41 > 0:34:43I was like, "No, I don't even want to look at it, just do whatever
0:34:43 > 0:34:47"you have to do." And until the very point, you know, you're like
0:34:47 > 0:34:51taking your clothes off and getting changed, you're sort of still
0:34:51 > 0:34:53thinking, like you have that in the back of your head, like,
0:34:53 > 0:34:55"Is this right?"
0:34:55 > 0:34:59And then I went upstairs and got undressed into, like, a nightie,
0:34:59 > 0:35:04lay on the bed and they put like a cream on your hand and that was it.
0:35:04 > 0:35:06I woke up and I was like, "Is that it?"
0:35:06 > 0:35:08And they were like, "Yeah, that's it, it's done."
0:35:08 > 0:35:10And I was like, "Where's my mum?"
0:35:10 > 0:35:14And my mum came up and she just gave me a hug and that was it.
0:35:19 > 0:35:23My friend actually has a picture of hers, so she does.
0:35:23 > 0:35:26She just keeps it. I don't know what she does with it.
0:35:26 > 0:35:30She looks at it like, but, yeah, she has.
0:35:30 > 0:35:33I was just like, I don't even want... Just turn the screen,
0:35:33 > 0:35:34and they did, so...
0:35:35 > 0:35:38You go on the Saturday, you take the tablet,
0:35:38 > 0:35:41go home and then you come back on the Sunday
0:35:41 > 0:35:43and take two more tablets,
0:35:43 > 0:35:48and that breaks the pregnancy away from your womb and your...
0:35:48 > 0:35:50Like, it comes out, which was a bit horrible.
0:35:50 > 0:35:56But it wasn't anything, it was literally, like, a blood clot,
0:35:56 > 0:35:59like the size of a conker, if that, do you know what I mean?
0:35:59 > 0:36:00You had like...
0:36:02 > 0:36:04You were in a room and you had, like, a back room attached
0:36:04 > 0:36:09to the side and they give you this like...
0:36:10 > 0:36:13What are they called? You know those green trays what they give
0:36:13 > 0:36:17the old women to wee in and stuff in the ozzy?
0:36:17 > 0:36:20One of them. And every time you go for a wee, unless you were going
0:36:20 > 0:36:23to have a poo, you wouldn't use it. But if you were going for a wee,
0:36:23 > 0:36:27you had to put that in like the hole of the toilet and wee in that
0:36:27 > 0:36:33because they need to check it so they know when the baby had
0:36:33 > 0:36:35come out, when the foetus had come out.
0:36:35 > 0:36:38So they give you like loads of sheets of brown paper
0:36:38 > 0:36:40and they say to you, "Don't ever look in the tray.
0:36:40 > 0:36:43"Just put the paper over and pull the..."
0:36:43 > 0:36:45You had like a little red lever, pull that,
0:36:45 > 0:36:48and every time you wee, they come and took the tray away.
0:36:48 > 0:36:50And then, eventually, they come in and go, "You've just passed it."
0:37:10 > 0:37:15After the abortion, I got picked up by my boyfriend's cousin
0:37:15 > 0:37:19and I really wanted a koobideh kebab from Rusholme chippy.
0:37:19 > 0:37:21So we got me a koobideh kebab
0:37:21 > 0:37:23and then we went to watch Pirates of the Caribbean in the cinema,
0:37:23 > 0:37:26and I fell asleep.
0:37:26 > 0:37:29When I went home, I was in agony, because after that,
0:37:29 > 0:37:31you have a dead, dead heavy period.
0:37:31 > 0:37:33But I was just thinking...
0:37:33 > 0:37:34SHE SIGHS
0:37:34 > 0:37:37But then I was thinking, "I can't even feel sorry for myself."
0:37:37 > 0:37:40I felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders.
0:37:40 > 0:37:43So I was like, "I can move on from here."
0:37:43 > 0:37:47But it wasn't my fault, I was on contraception,
0:37:47 > 0:37:50and I was only young and, you know, you don't read the leaflet
0:37:50 > 0:37:52and what comes with your pill and all the rest of it,
0:37:52 > 0:37:54and there was loads of things on the list
0:37:54 > 0:37:56what cancelled your pill out.
0:37:56 > 0:37:59And I'd definitely been taking it religiously.
0:37:59 > 0:38:03But maybe I'm just on antibiotics, or whatever the thing was,
0:38:03 > 0:38:06so I was just like, "It wasn't really my fault, I did think
0:38:06 > 0:38:08"I was covered." So...
0:38:08 > 0:38:14I don't know how I kind of stopped crying, but, yeah, I did.
0:38:15 > 0:38:19And then as it went on, I kind of felt a wee bit gutted...
0:38:19 > 0:38:20..or guilty.
0:38:20 > 0:38:24I was having dreams and stuff and seeing the actual child,
0:38:24 > 0:38:26and I can still the child today, actually,
0:38:26 > 0:38:29the image of this child that I was going to have.
0:38:29 > 0:38:33But then, looking at my life now, I know it was the right thing
0:38:33 > 0:38:36- that I did.- I am religious.
0:38:36 > 0:38:41I'll always say that I don't think that I made the wrong decision,
0:38:41 > 0:38:47like from a Muslim perspective, because why would my god
0:38:47 > 0:38:52want me to suffer? Why would my god want my unborn child to suffer?
0:38:52 > 0:38:56It's not... You know, it's not what anyone wants.
0:38:56 > 0:38:59I 100% made the right decisions about the abortions,
0:38:59 > 0:39:02but with Paitlyn, this sounds terrible,
0:39:02 > 0:39:05but sometimes I look at her and I love her to bits,
0:39:05 > 0:39:07but I do always ponder where I might be
0:39:07 > 0:39:10if I had not gone through with that pregnancy either.
0:39:10 > 0:39:12Not that I'm...
0:39:12 > 0:39:15Well, not that my life's not good now and I wouldn't change it,
0:39:15 > 0:39:18but, you know, it is hard.
0:39:18 > 0:39:21Especially now I'm a single parent and I've lost my house
0:39:21 > 0:39:24and everything. Well, yeah, I do think about it, about that
0:39:24 > 0:39:26decision, all the time.
0:39:39 > 0:39:41Oh, my God, my friend, Terrence, has just told me what happened
0:39:41 > 0:39:43to his cousin in Africa.
0:39:43 > 0:39:45So, the girl had been seeing this guy for a while,
0:39:45 > 0:39:48but it had all been a secret, so they didn't even know
0:39:48 > 0:39:52she had a partner, let alone was sexually active.
0:39:52 > 0:39:56So then she'd got caught pregnant and the abortion what she got,
0:39:56 > 0:39:58it wasn't in like a...
0:39:58 > 0:40:03It wasn't even in a clinic, it was like literally like a room
0:40:03 > 0:40:06and the woman done it like old school, like the way on...
0:40:06 > 0:40:08What's that movie of the woman...?
0:40:08 > 0:40:11Like, Vera Drake, it was like that.
0:40:11 > 0:40:15And she'd gone back to the woman twice, because the first time
0:40:15 > 0:40:19she'd done it and when the girl went home, still no bleeding
0:40:19 > 0:40:22or nothing. Done a pregnancy test and she was still pregnant.
0:40:32 > 0:40:35And then woman had said to her, "No, that can happen.
0:40:35 > 0:40:37"It can still come up that you're pregnant, but you won't be.
0:40:37 > 0:40:42"But I'll do it again if you're not sure, but you'll have to pay again,
0:40:42 > 0:40:44"cos my time's not free."
0:40:44 > 0:40:47So she's paid again, got it again,
0:40:47 > 0:40:49and then went home and she was bleeding then.
0:40:49 > 0:40:52And she was just like, "It's just my period," and whatever,
0:40:52 > 0:40:54and then she was haemorrhaging.
0:40:54 > 0:40:56So then her mum and dad were a bit like, "Well, what's going on
0:40:56 > 0:40:59"with you?" And she come clean to them.
0:40:59 > 0:41:03Now, the dad has like kicked off, but obviously the mum was like,
0:41:03 > 0:41:05"Her safety's paramount at this minute,
0:41:05 > 0:41:08"we'll deal with what she's done when we get back."
0:41:08 > 0:41:11And they've took her to the hospital, but she died.
0:41:11 > 0:41:13She had septicaemia.
0:41:13 > 0:41:14She was only 21.
0:41:24 > 0:41:28But they're really, really, really, really, really, really old-school,
0:41:28 > 0:41:32like, traditional, and they buried her the next day in a wooden box,
0:41:32 > 0:41:35didn't even have a proper ceremony or whatever.
0:41:35 > 0:41:39Because obviously they can't say she's died because she's had
0:41:39 > 0:41:42a backstreet abortion. So, from that, everything's had to
0:41:42 > 0:41:44stay hidden.
0:41:44 > 0:41:47It's just the shame, Terrence calls it.
0:41:47 > 0:41:49But I wouldn't call it shame.
0:42:27 > 0:42:30LEAH: Do you know what? I would love to get involved in something
0:42:30 > 0:42:31to get help for women over here.
0:42:34 > 0:42:39- PAIGE:- I just feel liberated and I can't believe how many people
0:42:39 > 0:42:41want to hear these stories.
0:42:43 > 0:42:47- TANAYA:- I really want to tell my nieces and nephews,
0:42:47 > 0:42:52because if they ever got into that situation, they would have someone.
0:42:52 > 0:42:54You know, so that they don't feel alone.