Episode 3

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0:00:02 > 0:00:08This programme contains some strong language from the start

0:00:08 > 0:00:14and scenes which some viewers may find disturbing

0:00:22 > 0:00:24The judge will be sat there.

0:00:24 > 0:00:25The jury's going to be over there.

0:00:25 > 0:00:27And the defendants,

0:00:27 > 0:00:30they're going to be behind a screen there.

0:00:30 > 0:00:32But you won't be in here.

0:00:32 > 0:00:33You'll be in a separate room with me.

0:00:36 > 0:00:38Can I go out for a fag, on the day?

0:00:38 > 0:00:40Course you can. When there's a break.

0:00:40 > 0:00:42What if I need the toilet?

0:00:42 > 0:00:45GIGGLING: Have I got to hold it in?

0:00:45 > 0:00:48If you need to stop, all you have to do is ask.

0:01:13 > 0:01:15Ruby is pregnant.

0:01:17 > 0:01:2013-year-old on the Child Protection Register.

0:01:20 > 0:01:23Pregnant by a mid-30s man with a family of his own.

0:01:23 > 0:01:27I can tell you his name, his address, his licence plate.

0:01:27 > 0:01:28'We can get convictions here, Maggie,

0:01:28 > 0:01:30'if we can re-engage the girls.'

0:01:30 > 0:01:31So, you want me to help you?

0:01:31 > 0:01:35- Yeah, we do.- You never helped me. Why would I do that?

0:01:35 > 0:01:36If a jury's not going to believe her?

0:01:36 > 0:01:38Why are we making that assumption?

0:01:38 > 0:01:41'Holly was fully aware that this would be the outcome.

0:01:41 > 0:01:44'She'll be in foster care while we assess the situation.'

0:01:44 > 0:01:46I can't do no more.

0:01:47 > 0:01:48You can.

0:01:49 > 0:01:51They're not using Amber, but they're going to use Ruby.

0:01:53 > 0:01:54I'm not using anyone.

0:01:54 > 0:01:57'Nine not-guilty pleas.

0:01:57 > 0:01:59'Which means nine cross-examinations,

0:01:59 > 0:02:01'which means nine different barristers

0:02:01 > 0:02:04'telling these girls that every word they're saying is a lie.'

0:02:04 > 0:02:06Are they up to it?

0:02:14 > 0:02:16Bye.

0:02:19 > 0:02:20Bye.

0:02:25 > 0:02:26It is mad there.

0:02:26 > 0:02:27What is?

0:02:27 > 0:02:29Court!

0:02:29 > 0:02:31But I won't be in the actual court on the day,

0:02:31 > 0:02:33I'll be in a room on me own.

0:02:33 > 0:02:34YASMIN BABBLES

0:02:34 > 0:02:36Come on.

0:02:36 > 0:02:38Let's go and get some of Nana's cake.

0:02:38 > 0:02:39Mmm.

0:02:39 > 0:02:41SHE CHUCKLES

0:02:41 > 0:02:44It's all about supporting me through the process.

0:02:44 > 0:02:47Well, that's what the copper kept on saying.

0:02:47 > 0:02:50And I can go out for a fag, too.

0:02:54 > 0:02:56If they didn't want me to be a witness,

0:02:56 > 0:02:59why did they, like, beg me to do in first place?

0:02:59 > 0:03:01I don't want her doing it.

0:03:01 > 0:03:04It's her saying she don't want all them interviews going to waste.

0:03:04 > 0:03:07Mine did. Months of them.

0:03:08 > 0:03:11Do you know what? I really, really, really...

0:03:11 > 0:03:12don't give a fuck.

0:03:12 > 0:03:14CROCKERY CLATTERS

0:03:23 > 0:03:26I thought I'd see Hell freeze over before this got to trial.

0:03:29 > 0:03:31Today's going to be about swearing in the jury

0:03:31 > 0:03:33and Rachel, our prosecution barrister,

0:03:33 > 0:03:35standing up and outlining our case.

0:03:37 > 0:03:40Holly, you're the first witness for the Crown,

0:03:40 > 0:03:42so you'll be called first.

0:03:42 > 0:03:44So, depending on what gets done today,

0:03:44 > 0:03:46in all likelihood you'll be going in

0:03:46 > 0:03:49to start giving your evidence tomorrow.

0:03:49 > 0:03:51We'll need to phone Suzanne.

0:03:51 > 0:03:52Who's Suzanne?

0:03:52 > 0:03:54I have to do stuff.

0:03:54 > 0:03:57Go to AA meetings and that to get Ella back.

0:03:58 > 0:04:00They write it down if you miss one.

0:04:02 > 0:04:03You're not going to see any of them.

0:04:03 > 0:04:05You know that, don't you?

0:04:05 > 0:04:08It'll all be by video link and you're just going to carry on

0:04:08 > 0:04:11doing what you've been doing for years.

0:04:11 > 0:04:12Telling the truth.

0:04:14 > 0:04:16And those 12 ordinary men and women

0:04:16 > 0:04:18are going to believe you.

0:04:20 > 0:04:21Right.

0:04:21 > 0:04:23I'll see you bright and early tomorrow.

0:04:23 > 0:04:25ANGRY SHOUTING

0:04:25 > 0:04:28Scum! Paedo!

0:04:28 > 0:04:31ALL SHOUT

0:04:38 > 0:04:40MAN: Get back to your own country!

0:04:44 > 0:04:46You're going down, you Paki bastard!

0:04:46 > 0:04:49He's the Paki bastard who brought the prosecution, you dickhead.

0:04:49 > 0:04:52SHOUTING

0:04:52 > 0:04:55- Cheers, but don't call me a "Paki bastard" again.- Sorry.

0:05:18 > 0:05:19CLERK: All rise.

0:05:27 > 0:05:29It's started.

0:05:30 > 0:05:31It's on BBC website.

0:05:32 > 0:05:34- Front page of Manchester Evening News.- Jim.

0:05:36 > 0:05:38Let's keep busy today, eh?

0:05:38 > 0:05:41Fancy going down the shops for a few bits and bobs?

0:05:41 > 0:05:42I might just go upstairs.

0:05:50 > 0:05:53Holly Winshaw is now 19.

0:05:53 > 0:05:57At the start of the time period with which you are concerned,

0:05:57 > 0:05:58she was 15 years old,

0:05:58 > 0:06:01and at the end of that period, she was 17.

0:06:02 > 0:06:05Ruby Bowen is now 16.

0:06:07 > 0:06:09Her 13th birthday was two days before the start

0:06:09 > 0:06:11of the indictment period,

0:06:11 > 0:06:13and at the end of that period, she was 15.

0:06:15 > 0:06:18You will hear evidence about these girls' personal circumstances

0:06:18 > 0:06:20and their behaviour.

0:06:20 > 0:06:23Holly Winshaw had fallen out with her parents

0:06:23 > 0:06:24and was mostly living away from home

0:06:24 > 0:06:27when the sexual exploitation of her began.

0:06:29 > 0:06:32Ruby Bowen had had a difficult and troubled childhood

0:06:32 > 0:06:34and has a number of problems as a result.

0:06:36 > 0:06:37You will have to decide,

0:06:37 > 0:06:39having heard their own descriptions of themselves

0:06:39 > 0:06:42and the descriptions of other people,

0:06:42 > 0:06:44whether their characters and their behaviour

0:06:44 > 0:06:46makes them unreliable witnesses

0:06:46 > 0:06:49as some of the defendants may say.

0:06:50 > 0:06:53Or whether as the prosecution say, it simply confirms

0:06:53 > 0:06:55that they were exactly the sort of children

0:06:55 > 0:06:58who were easy to identify, target and exploit

0:06:58 > 0:07:01for the sexual gratification of these men.

0:07:11 > 0:07:15'Amber Bowen, the older sister of Ruby Bowen, is now 19.

0:07:15 > 0:07:17'The prosecution will argue

0:07:17 > 0:07:20'that she's an important person in this case.

0:07:20 > 0:07:22'She was also having sex with adult men

0:07:22 > 0:07:23'and getting food and alcohol for doing so,'

0:07:23 > 0:07:27but she moved on to playing an active role in helping men -

0:07:27 > 0:07:29including some of these defendants -

0:07:29 > 0:07:31to sexually exploit the other girls.

0:07:32 > 0:07:34That, ladies and gentlemen,

0:07:34 > 0:07:37is the outline of the prosecution case that we'll put before you,

0:07:37 > 0:07:41starting with the first witness, Holly Winshaw, tomorrow morning.

0:07:41 > 0:07:45QUIET MURMURS

0:07:55 > 0:07:56Hiya.

0:07:59 > 0:08:01Is she ready?

0:08:02 > 0:08:03I can't say she is, no.

0:08:04 > 0:08:06Do you want to...?

0:08:12 > 0:08:14JULIE: She won't get dressed. I'm sorry.

0:08:19 > 0:08:21Hiya.

0:08:23 > 0:08:25Have you had any breakfast?

0:08:28 > 0:08:30Well, I've not.

0:08:31 > 0:08:32What are we having?

0:08:35 > 0:08:37Bacon butty.

0:08:39 > 0:08:40Two of them, then, please, Julie.

0:08:48 > 0:08:50The whole bloody country's waiting on this trial...

0:08:51 > 0:08:55- ..and she's up there having a lie-in!- Nina knows what she's doing.

0:08:55 > 0:08:57No point pushing her until she's ready.

0:09:05 > 0:09:08ALL SHOUT

0:09:10 > 0:09:12Where is she?

0:09:14 > 0:09:16Worth giving Nina a ring?

0:09:20 > 0:09:22Andrew Norfolk, from The Times.

0:09:22 > 0:09:26Looks like the first witness hasn't turned up. I'll phone back later.

0:09:27 > 0:09:31Andrew, every time I open The Times,

0:09:31 > 0:09:33there's your by-line on grooming.

0:09:33 > 0:09:35- It's a big story.- Is it?

0:09:35 > 0:09:38Is it a big story? Or does it just seem that way

0:09:38 > 0:09:40because there's so much reporting on it?

0:09:40 > 0:09:45You must admit, it's a gift for the BNP and all that lot out there.

0:09:45 > 0:09:48"Innocent white victims", "dark-skinned abusers".

0:09:48 > 0:09:50It's uncomfortable, isn't it?

0:09:50 > 0:09:52I just don't see what it achieves.

0:09:52 > 0:09:54PROTESTERS SHOUT OUTSIDE

0:09:56 > 0:09:57She's here.

0:10:04 > 0:10:07LOUD, ANGRY SHOUTS

0:10:10 > 0:10:14Ignore them, ignore them, ignore them and ignore them.

0:10:22 > 0:10:26QUIET MURMURS

0:10:51 > 0:10:53Take a seat.

0:11:30 > 0:11:33They need to hear you, but they don't need to see you.

0:11:35 > 0:11:36Would you like a curtain?

0:11:36 > 0:11:37No.

0:11:53 > 0:11:54Hello, Holly.

0:11:54 > 0:11:56Can you see and hear me?

0:11:56 > 0:11:57Yes.

0:11:57 > 0:12:00OK, that's a good start.

0:12:00 > 0:12:03The usher should help you to swear an oath.

0:12:03 > 0:12:05Has that been explained to you?

0:12:07 > 0:12:09Er, rather than gestures, Holly,

0:12:09 > 0:12:13you'll have to speak words for ease of the transcribers.

0:12:13 > 0:12:15Yeah.

0:12:16 > 0:12:20"I swear, by Almighty God, that the evidence I shall give

0:12:20 > 0:12:23"shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth."

0:12:26 > 0:12:28Members of the jury,

0:12:28 > 0:12:32the prosecution will now present its evidence in chief,

0:12:32 > 0:12:35which takes the form of recorded interviews

0:12:35 > 0:12:38with the witness, Holly Winshaw.

0:12:42 > 0:12:44'Now do you understand what it is

0:12:44 > 0:12:47'that you've come to speak to me about today?

0:12:48 > 0:12:50'Yeah.

0:12:50 > 0:12:53'OK, and what do you think that's about?

0:12:55 > 0:12:58'About what happened at, um...

0:13:00 > 0:13:03'with...the men...at Top Curry.

0:13:06 > 0:13:09'About what happened with the men at Top Curry.

0:13:11 > 0:13:15'OK. Obviously, I've got to ask you some questions

0:13:15 > 0:13:18'about what they actually did to you during the sex, OK?

0:13:20 > 0:13:21'It hurt.

0:13:23 > 0:13:24'Because I didn't want to do it.

0:13:26 > 0:13:29'Tariq started taking us places.

0:13:30 > 0:13:33'He started picking us up and...

0:13:34 > 0:13:36'..Amber thought that he was her boyfriend.

0:13:38 > 0:13:41'So, what did you think was going to happen when he picked you up?

0:13:44 > 0:13:47'I didn't actually know he was taking us to have sex.

0:13:49 > 0:13:53'He said, "Don't cry" and he said, "You're beautiful".

0:13:53 > 0:13:55'NINA: And so, when he got on top of you,

0:13:55 > 0:13:56'what was you doing?

0:13:58 > 0:13:59'I were trying to move...

0:14:02 > 0:14:04'..but I just gave up.

0:14:07 > 0:14:10'Because what was the point in trying?

0:14:11 > 0:14:13SHE SNIFFLES

0:14:14 > 0:14:17'And what did you think about the fact

0:14:17 > 0:14:19'that it started then with different men?

0:14:21 > 0:14:23'I weren't even bothered any more.

0:14:27 > 0:14:30'Right, what do you mean by that?

0:14:30 > 0:14:32'I didn't feel anything about it.

0:14:32 > 0:14:34'Why do you think you felt like that?

0:14:35 > 0:14:37'Because it had been going on for so long.'

0:14:48 > 0:14:52I want to ask you some questions today

0:14:52 > 0:14:54on behalf of Shabir Ahmed,

0:14:54 > 0:14:58who you were introduced to by a nickname - "Daddy"?

0:14:58 > 0:15:04Before I ask you about what you say Daddy did,

0:15:04 > 0:15:06I want to ask you something about your background.

0:15:07 > 0:15:11What caused the big falling out you had with your parents,

0:15:11 > 0:15:14in around June 2008?

0:15:14 > 0:15:17I didn't really stick to the rules.

0:15:17 > 0:15:21And you were going out with a gang of girls at night, were you not?

0:15:22 > 0:15:24Yeah.

0:15:24 > 0:15:27You were free-loading, were you not?

0:15:27 > 0:15:29Getting free booze.

0:15:29 > 0:15:30So, alcohol and money?

0:15:32 > 0:15:33Yeah.

0:15:33 > 0:15:35And then, mocking them.

0:15:35 > 0:15:39Creating problems in Speedy Kebab and Top Curry?

0:15:39 > 0:15:42I wouldn't say that I was creating problems.

0:15:42 > 0:15:45Was there not a crowd of you that was going to Speedy Kebab,

0:15:45 > 0:15:47drunk and loud

0:15:47 > 0:15:50and behaving very badly?

0:15:50 > 0:15:52There's wasn't a crowd of us.

0:15:53 > 0:15:55There was about two or three at a time

0:15:55 > 0:15:57and it was the men in the takeaway shop

0:15:57 > 0:15:59that bought us the alcohol to get drunk on.

0:15:59 > 0:16:03I want you to understand that I am going to be suggesting

0:16:03 > 0:16:07that Daddy never gave you or bought you

0:16:07 > 0:16:11any alcohol at all over that period or any other time.

0:16:11 > 0:16:13That is the truth of the matter, is it not?

0:16:13 > 0:16:14No.

0:16:20 > 0:16:24You told the police that when he was trying to rape you,

0:16:24 > 0:16:27you were trying to,

0:16:27 > 0:16:31"like, laugh it off, giggling and saying no."

0:16:31 > 0:16:33Is that right?

0:16:34 > 0:16:35Well, yeah.

0:16:35 > 0:16:38I was trying to say no in, like,

0:16:38 > 0:16:39a giggly way.

0:16:41 > 0:16:43Because I didn't want to say it in, like, a stern way, cos...

0:16:45 > 0:16:47..I didn't want to offend him.

0:16:50 > 0:16:51And I was scared.

0:16:54 > 0:16:57Because if I said it, like, nastily to him,

0:16:57 > 0:17:00I didn't know what he would do, so I just, like...

0:17:00 > 0:17:02SHE SNIFFLES

0:17:04 > 0:17:06But he just didn't stop.

0:17:10 > 0:17:13Have you got a tissue there, Holly?

0:17:16 > 0:17:18Thanks.

0:17:26 > 0:17:31Had you not tried to shout for help

0:17:31 > 0:17:34if this was happening? You were being raped.

0:17:34 > 0:17:38I didn't want to say anything because I was scared.

0:17:39 > 0:17:42This incident did not happen, did it, Holly?

0:17:43 > 0:17:44Yeah, it did.

0:17:47 > 0:17:50- You say that you were shouting, "Get off me"?- Yeah.

0:17:50 > 0:17:51It could not have been the case

0:17:51 > 0:17:53that what you were actually shouting was,

0:17:53 > 0:17:56"Tell that bastard to give me my money"?

0:17:56 > 0:17:57No.

0:17:57 > 0:17:59No, because that would suggest, would it not,

0:17:59 > 0:18:01that what you were upset about

0:18:01 > 0:18:04was not being paid, rather than the sex.

0:18:04 > 0:18:07Do you remember calling my client a "Paki bastard"?

0:18:07 > 0:18:09I wouldn't.

0:18:09 > 0:18:11I wouldn't say something like that.

0:18:11 > 0:18:14I suggest to you, Miss Winshaw, that at the time of these events,

0:18:14 > 0:18:17your life was a bit of a mess, was it not?

0:18:17 > 0:18:21- You were out getting drunk regularly, were you not?- Yeah.

0:18:21 > 0:18:24And you had been in so many different places

0:18:24 > 0:18:26on so many different nights with so many different men,

0:18:26 > 0:18:29that you simply made a mistake,

0:18:29 > 0:18:31- did you not?- No.

0:18:31 > 0:18:33Can you describe the man you call "Tiger" to me, Holly.

0:18:35 > 0:18:38You said, "He's Asian, obviously.

0:18:38 > 0:18:40"He's got, like, a side parting in his hair.

0:18:40 > 0:18:43"Like a lot of them, small."

0:18:45 > 0:18:48I think that's his height you're talking about there, is it not?

0:18:48 > 0:18:51CHUCKLING AND MURMURING

0:19:03 > 0:19:05Not long to go now. You're doing great.

0:19:05 > 0:19:07Just hold your nerve. One more day.

0:19:25 > 0:19:28CHEERING My lovely girls!

0:19:29 > 0:19:31'You're beautiful.

0:19:33 > 0:19:35'When you going to let me have sex with you?

0:19:36 > 0:19:38'I'm not.'

0:19:41 > 0:19:42You're going with him.

0:19:44 > 0:19:45You're going with him.

0:19:46 > 0:19:48- Holly, you're going with him.- No...

0:20:31 > 0:20:33I'm the barrister for Abdul Aziz.

0:20:33 > 0:20:35Who you knew as "Tariq".

0:20:37 > 0:20:41Of all the girls that you knew who were conducting that sort of lifestyle,

0:20:41 > 0:20:43without doubt, you were the prettiest.

0:20:45 > 0:20:49You're much prettier than Amber,

0:20:49 > 0:20:50are you not?

0:20:50 > 0:20:52MURMURING

0:20:54 > 0:20:57Yes. Well, I will...

0:20:57 > 0:20:58HE CLEARS HIS THROAT

0:20:58 > 0:21:02..spare your blushes, and we can deal with this in a different way.

0:21:04 > 0:21:05Amber Bowen.

0:21:07 > 0:21:10Now, she was the one who introduced you

0:21:10 > 0:21:13to this...lifestyle that you complain of?

0:21:13 > 0:21:15- Yeah. She was. - She was the one who introduced you

0:21:15 > 0:21:19- to the men that you complain of, yes?- Yeah.

0:21:19 > 0:21:22She was the one who was getting payments

0:21:22 > 0:21:26for the men that you make these complaints against?

0:21:26 > 0:21:29Yeah, she was, but some of them were getting...

0:21:31 > 0:21:33..some of the men were getting payments, as well.

0:21:33 > 0:21:35So, in the scheme of things,

0:21:35 > 0:21:39Amber was worse than the men that you accuse,

0:21:39 > 0:21:41and at any rate, she was no less culpable

0:21:41 > 0:21:43than the men that you accuse?

0:21:43 > 0:21:46- How do you mean?- She was at least as bad as they were?

0:21:46 > 0:21:48In some ways.

0:21:49 > 0:21:51In other ways, they were worse.

0:21:51 > 0:21:54If I've understood your evidence correctly, Holly, is that...

0:21:56 > 0:21:57..you would go to an address

0:21:57 > 0:22:01knowing that sex was about to take place, sex would take place.

0:22:01 > 0:22:04Amber would collect money.

0:22:05 > 0:22:08Tariq would be called, he would collect you and Amber,

0:22:08 > 0:22:11and money would be given to Tariq. Is that what happened?

0:22:12 > 0:22:14- Yeah.- Yes.

0:22:14 > 0:22:17So, it was Amber who was controlling the arrangement.

0:22:17 > 0:22:20It was Amber who was arranging sex.

0:22:20 > 0:22:22It was Amber who was arranging transport.

0:22:22 > 0:22:26- I think it were both of them together.- And that is because...?

0:22:26 > 0:22:29Because if it was just her doing it, why would she give him the money?

0:22:33 > 0:22:35The reality is this, is it not, Holly?

0:22:35 > 0:22:41That you feel profoundly very guilty about what's gone on.

0:22:41 > 0:22:44I don't feel guilty because I didn't do anything wrong.

0:22:45 > 0:22:48It may just be that I've read your evidence badly,

0:22:48 > 0:22:51but you do say, at a number of places,

0:22:51 > 0:22:52that you feel guilty...

0:22:53 > 0:22:56..because you didn't stand up for yourself.

0:22:56 > 0:22:58Did not defend your corner.

0:23:01 > 0:23:02Yeah, I didn't.

0:23:04 > 0:23:06I feel ashamed.

0:23:11 > 0:23:16And I feel angry that I didn't try more.

0:23:19 > 0:23:22Because, obviously, at my age, a few years later...

0:23:24 > 0:23:27..if something like that were to happen again,

0:23:27 > 0:23:29I would do everything in my power

0:23:29 > 0:23:31to make sure it wouldn't happen again.

0:23:31 > 0:23:32NOW you feel ashamed.

0:23:34 > 0:23:35Guilty for what's gone on, yes?

0:23:35 > 0:23:38I don't feel guilty, I feel ashamed.

0:23:38 > 0:23:41And you've been the subject, over the years,

0:23:41 > 0:23:44of ridicule for this lifestyle that you entered with Amber.

0:23:44 > 0:23:47People were calling you names.

0:23:47 > 0:23:50And this is a way, really of just cleansing all of that.

0:23:52 > 0:23:54Of saying to them, "Well, you know what,

0:23:54 > 0:23:57"in fact, I've got nothing to be ashamed of, because I was raped."

0:23:58 > 0:24:02That's what this is really all about, is it not?

0:24:02 > 0:24:04I don't care about them.

0:24:05 > 0:24:07I don't care about what people say.

0:24:08 > 0:24:10It's four years later now.

0:24:11 > 0:24:13Four years.

0:24:14 > 0:24:15I've got a daughter.

0:24:16 > 0:24:18I've got a life.

0:24:19 > 0:24:21I...don't need "cleansed".

0:24:23 > 0:24:24I want justice.

0:24:48 > 0:24:51HE EXHALES

0:25:12 > 0:25:14Do I look all right?

0:25:14 > 0:25:16Really nice.

0:25:17 > 0:25:18Proper smart.

0:25:18 > 0:25:20- I'm going to go wait in 'ere.- OK.

0:25:20 > 0:25:22Police'll be here in five minutes.

0:25:22 > 0:25:24Why don't you go for a walk round the block

0:25:24 > 0:25:26- if you don't want to see them. - I don't care.

0:25:26 > 0:25:29It's just going to make you angry.

0:25:29 > 0:25:32- It'll upset you, and that'll upset her.- No, it won't.

0:25:32 > 0:25:34I don't care if they've decided

0:25:34 > 0:25:36I'm not a good enough, like, victim or whatever.

0:25:39 > 0:25:41Cos I'm a good mum.

0:25:44 > 0:25:45I'm actually good.

0:25:47 > 0:25:49And that's where my head's going.

0:25:49 > 0:25:52Not on all this that happened years ago.

0:25:52 > 0:25:54YASMIN GURGLES

0:25:54 > 0:25:57SHE CHUCKLES

0:25:57 > 0:26:00ANGRY SHOUTING

0:26:03 > 0:26:06SILENCE

0:26:15 > 0:26:18MURMURING

0:26:23 > 0:26:25- CLERK:- All rise.

0:26:37 > 0:26:39MAGGIE, ON CLIP: 'Go on, Ruby.

0:26:46 > 0:26:48'They pass you around like a ball.

0:26:48 > 0:26:49'Um...

0:26:50 > 0:26:53'They, like, get your number, and then, there's like...

0:26:55 > 0:26:57'..50 people you don't know ringing you.

0:26:59 > 0:27:03'What do you mean, Ruby? "They pass you around like a ball"?

0:27:03 > 0:27:04'Um...

0:27:07 > 0:27:09'They'd, like, be in a flat

0:27:09 > 0:27:11'in...in a massive circle...

0:27:13 > 0:27:16'..and then, they put the white girl in the middle.'

0:27:17 > 0:27:19White girl in the middle...

0:27:19 > 0:27:21'And then you'd get sent off with one of them.

0:27:23 > 0:27:26'And then, when you come back,

0:27:26 > 0:27:28'you just...

0:27:28 > 0:27:31'just get passed and passed again.'

0:27:34 > 0:27:36Passed and passed again... Passed and passed...

0:27:36 > 0:27:37'And where was the flat?'

0:27:37 > 0:27:39Passed and passed...

0:27:39 > 0:27:41'There weren't one.

0:27:42 > 0:27:43'There were loads.'

0:27:44 > 0:27:47There weren't one... There were loads...

0:27:47 > 0:27:49There were loads...

0:27:53 > 0:27:55There were loads...

0:28:02 > 0:28:05- Ruby, can you see me all right? - Yeah.

0:28:05 > 0:28:07And can you hear me OK?

0:28:07 > 0:28:08Yes.

0:28:08 > 0:28:11I am the barrister who is helping the man that you call Billy,

0:28:11 > 0:28:15and I'd like to ask you some questions for him, please.

0:28:15 > 0:28:17Now, you told us that you were in a relationship with Billy

0:28:17 > 0:28:21for a few months and that he was your boyfriend, yes?

0:28:22 > 0:28:23Yes.

0:28:23 > 0:28:26And that you told him you were 16?

0:28:26 > 0:28:28Yeah.

0:28:28 > 0:28:32And as time went on, you felt like you were in love with him,

0:28:32 > 0:28:33did you not?

0:28:35 > 0:28:36Um...

0:28:38 > 0:28:39You're nodding.

0:28:39 > 0:28:42And did it seem like he really liked you a lot, as well?

0:28:44 > 0:28:45Yeah.

0:28:46 > 0:28:50Now then, when you have talked about when you have been with Billy,

0:28:50 > 0:28:54and you have had sex with him, you have talked about

0:28:54 > 0:28:55cuddling up with him,

0:28:55 > 0:29:00having a laugh and having nice sex, have you not?

0:29:05 > 0:29:06Yeah.

0:29:06 > 0:29:12And that Billy, he was different from the other men that you met,

0:29:12 > 0:29:15because you told us, the other men, they were...

0:29:17 > 0:29:18..one-night stands,

0:29:18 > 0:29:20whereas Billy,

0:29:20 > 0:29:22he was a proper boyfriend, yes?

0:29:29 > 0:29:30Um...

0:29:35 > 0:29:37Yeah.

0:29:37 > 0:29:39I have no more questions.

0:29:39 > 0:29:41QUIET MURMURS

0:29:50 > 0:29:51Ruby!

0:30:15 > 0:30:18You met Ruby Bowen before your son was born, is that right?

0:30:18 > 0:30:20Yes.

0:30:20 > 0:30:24And you had a sexual relationship with her from October 2008,

0:30:24 > 0:30:26- is that right?- Yes.

0:30:26 > 0:30:28Two photographs in the jury bundle were taken

0:30:28 > 0:30:30when Ruby Bowen was in Year 9.

0:30:33 > 0:30:38That is the girl with whom you had a sexual relationship, is it not?

0:30:39 > 0:30:42I don't deny the fact, from looking at the picture,

0:30:42 > 0:30:44that that's the same girl.

0:30:44 > 0:30:47These photographs were taken when she was 13 and 14.

0:30:47 > 0:30:49Are you seriously saying to this jury

0:30:49 > 0:30:52that you thought she was 20 to 25 years old?

0:30:58 > 0:31:02Mr Ahmed, do you deny all of the allegations?

0:31:02 > 0:31:04I deny everything.

0:31:04 > 0:31:06But you accept, as you've told this jury,

0:31:06 > 0:31:09that the forensic evidence has your semen on those items of underwear?

0:31:09 > 0:31:12HE GRUNTS

0:31:13 > 0:31:15Where did Holly Winshaw get your semen from?

0:31:15 > 0:31:18I had a sexual relationship with Amber,

0:31:18 > 0:31:20and, if Amber took a condom,

0:31:20 > 0:31:21this Winshaw girl,

0:31:21 > 0:31:24very clever, very sharp, intelligent,

0:31:24 > 0:31:26knows everything,

0:31:26 > 0:31:28who knows what she did.

0:31:28 > 0:31:31Why would Holly fabricate evidence against you?

0:31:31 > 0:31:34They get into this business together.

0:31:34 > 0:31:36They decide on this joint venture together

0:31:36 > 0:31:39and they carry it out very well.

0:31:39 > 0:31:41They're making a lot of money,

0:31:41 > 0:31:43and then she falls out with Amber, and...

0:31:46 > 0:31:49It's very nice and very easy for policemen,

0:31:49 > 0:31:52because they want to climb the ladder of their career.

0:31:52 > 0:31:54Fuck the Pakistanis.

0:31:54 > 0:31:56- Mr Ahmed, can we stick to...?- No.

0:31:56 > 0:31:58No, we can't.

0:31:59 > 0:32:00Where are your white people?

0:32:02 > 0:32:03They train them in sex,

0:32:03 > 0:32:06they train them in drinking from very young age,

0:32:06 > 0:32:09and then, when they come to us, by that time, they're fully trained.

0:32:09 > 0:32:12You should look in mirror.

0:32:12 > 0:32:14Look at yourself first.

0:32:15 > 0:32:16Look at your community.

0:32:17 > 0:32:18Where's school?

0:32:18 > 0:32:21Where's Social Services?

0:32:21 > 0:32:23Where is everybody else?

0:32:23 > 0:32:26MURMURING

0:32:34 > 0:32:35You're lovely with her.

0:32:40 > 0:32:42How do you see your future together?

0:32:45 > 0:32:46I'd like to go to college.

0:32:48 > 0:32:50I'd like to move away from Rochdale.

0:32:52 > 0:32:54Does that feel achievable?

0:32:55 > 0:32:56Yeah.

0:33:03 > 0:33:05We'll not keep you in suspense any longer, Holly.

0:33:05 > 0:33:08We're going to keep the care order in place,

0:33:08 > 0:33:11but we'll have joint responsibility with you.

0:33:11 > 0:33:12What does that mean?

0:33:13 > 0:33:15Ella's going to be coming home to you.

0:33:16 > 0:33:19We want it to be a smooth transition for her,

0:33:19 > 0:33:21so we'll liaise with the foster family

0:33:21 > 0:33:24and start making arrangements next week.

0:33:28 > 0:33:30- SHE SNIFFLES - Sorry.

0:33:30 > 0:33:32You've worked really hard, Holly.

0:33:32 > 0:33:34We've got every confidence in you.

0:33:39 > 0:33:41In a complex case like this one,

0:33:41 > 0:33:43where we'd expect the jury to be out for some weeks,

0:33:43 > 0:33:46this briefing is an opportunity for members of the press

0:33:46 > 0:33:49to ask any questions that may have arisen during trial.

0:33:49 > 0:33:51Yep, over here, yep.

0:33:51 > 0:33:54Why didn't the CPS prosecute this case in 2008

0:33:54 > 0:33:57when Holly Winshaw first went to the police?

0:33:57 > 0:33:58At that time, it was considered

0:33:58 > 0:34:02that there was an unrealistic prospect of conviction.

0:34:02 > 0:34:04What changed?

0:34:04 > 0:34:09The key evidence used in this trial, you had in 2008.

0:34:09 > 0:34:12The perpetrators were allowed to continue offending

0:34:12 > 0:34:13for a further two years.

0:34:13 > 0:34:16Why did the CPS drop the case?

0:34:16 > 0:34:19Was there an issue around the ethnicity of the perpetrators?

0:34:19 > 0:34:23There was an issue around the witness, not the perpetrators.

0:34:23 > 0:34:25What happened is that, initially,

0:34:25 > 0:34:30a CPS lawyer formed the view that the witness would not be credible.

0:34:31 > 0:34:34That's why the case didn't progress to court.

0:34:35 > 0:34:38I came here last year and I reversed that decision.

0:34:38 > 0:34:39I looked at it afresh

0:34:39 > 0:34:42and I formed a different view.

0:34:42 > 0:34:44That she was ABSOLUTELY credible.

0:34:44 > 0:34:48Mr Afzal, would you say that Holly Winshaw was betrayed?

0:34:48 > 0:34:51I have no difficulty in apologising to her.

0:34:51 > 0:34:53She was let down by the whole system

0:34:53 > 0:34:55and we were part of that system.

0:34:55 > 0:34:58MURMURING

0:35:15 > 0:35:17VEHICLE APPROACHES

0:35:17 > 0:35:20- They're here!- They're here! - Holly!- Holly, come quick!

0:35:20 > 0:35:21They're here!

0:35:24 > 0:35:26She decided to dress herself this morning...

0:35:28 > 0:35:32..in case you're wondering why she's got on that hat.

0:35:33 > 0:35:34Mummy.

0:35:37 > 0:35:39Mummy...

0:35:57 > 0:35:59Will the foreman please stand?

0:36:01 > 0:36:03Have the jury reached a verdict on any count?

0:36:03 > 0:36:05Yes.

0:36:06 > 0:36:08On the charge of trafficking within the United Kingdom

0:36:08 > 0:36:11for sexual exploitation,

0:36:11 > 0:36:14do you find the defendant, Shabir Ahmed,

0:36:14 > 0:36:17guilty or not guilty?

0:36:17 > 0:36:18Guilty.

0:36:18 > 0:36:20You're a biased jury!

0:36:20 > 0:36:21Racist!

0:36:21 > 0:36:23On the charge of rape of a child,

0:36:23 > 0:36:27do you find the defendant, Shabir Ahmed, guilty or not guilty?

0:36:27 > 0:36:28Guilty.

0:36:28 > 0:36:31Ya bastard! YA BASTARD!

0:36:31 > 0:36:33Take him to the cells.

0:36:33 > 0:36:34Get off me!

0:36:34 > 0:36:36Get your hands off me!

0:36:36 > 0:36:38Get off me!

0:36:38 > 0:36:39Kabeer Hassan?

0:36:43 > 0:36:45On the count of rape of a child,

0:36:45 > 0:36:49do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?

0:36:49 > 0:36:50Guilty.

0:36:50 > 0:36:52Abdul Rauf?

0:36:52 > 0:36:53Guilty.

0:36:53 > 0:36:55Mohammed Sajid?

0:36:55 > 0:36:57Guilty.

0:36:57 > 0:36:59Mohammed Amin?

0:36:59 > 0:37:00Guilty.

0:37:01 > 0:37:03Adil Khan?

0:37:03 > 0:37:07On the count of conspiring to engage in sexual activity with a child?

0:37:07 > 0:37:10- Do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?- Guilty.

0:37:10 > 0:37:11Abdul Aziz?

0:37:14 > 0:37:16On the count of trafficking within the United Kingdom

0:37:16 > 0:37:18for sexual exploitation.

0:37:18 > 0:37:21Do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?

0:37:21 > 0:37:23Guilty.

0:37:23 > 0:37:25On the count of rape of a child.

0:37:25 > 0:37:28Do you find the defendant guilty or not guilty?

0:37:28 > 0:37:30Guilty.

0:37:30 > 0:37:31MOBILE RINGS

0:37:33 > 0:37:35Would you watch Ella for me?

0:37:35 > 0:37:37CHILDREN CHATTER

0:37:44 > 0:37:45All right?

0:37:45 > 0:37:46SARA: 'All right?'

0:37:46 > 0:37:49Dunno, yet. Depends what you're going to say next.

0:37:50 > 0:37:52'I'm going to say guilty.

0:37:52 > 0:37:55'Every single one of them involved with you.

0:37:55 > 0:37:57'Guilty.'

0:37:59 > 0:38:00You there?

0:38:02 > 0:38:04Look to your right.

0:38:07 > 0:38:09I called your house. Your mum said you were here.

0:38:13 > 0:38:14You can't take it in, can ya?

0:38:14 > 0:38:16SHE SIGHS

0:38:18 > 0:38:19Neither can I.

0:38:19 > 0:38:21I don't feel anything.

0:38:21 > 0:38:23You will do. You'll be bathing Ella or making some pasta,

0:38:23 > 0:38:25I don't know, watching telly...

0:38:27 > 0:38:28..and it's going to hit ya.

0:38:28 > 0:38:30Like, "Fuck, this actually happened"?

0:38:30 > 0:38:33No, like, "Fuck, I actually did this".

0:38:35 > 0:38:36It were you, Holly.

0:38:37 > 0:38:40It were you speaking up again and again and again to me

0:38:40 > 0:38:43and to your dad and to the police

0:38:43 > 0:38:47and holding your own against nine bloody barristers!

0:38:49 > 0:38:51It were you.

0:39:11 > 0:39:1319 years.

0:39:15 > 0:39:17Shabir Ahmed...

0:39:20 > 0:39:2119 years...

0:39:23 > 0:39:25- HE SOBS - Sorry.

0:39:28 > 0:39:29I'm sorry.

0:39:34 > 0:39:36I had all these ideas about you...

0:39:38 > 0:39:39..since you were that high.

0:39:41 > 0:39:43What you were going to be,

0:39:43 > 0:39:45what you were going to do and all that.

0:39:45 > 0:39:46And how people would say,

0:39:46 > 0:39:50"Oh, Jim's daughter, yeah, the smart one.

0:39:50 > 0:39:54- "She's gone on to do this, that and the other."- Jim!

0:39:54 > 0:39:55But seeing you do...

0:39:57 > 0:39:59..what you've done

0:39:59 > 0:40:01over them months in court.

0:40:01 > 0:40:04Finding the strength to do what you did in there...

0:40:05 > 0:40:07..after everything you've been through,

0:40:07 > 0:40:09after everything that's happened to you.

0:40:16 > 0:40:18That's the proudest moment of my life.

0:40:25 > 0:40:27I have got so much respect for you.

0:40:32 > 0:40:34I take my hat off to you.

0:40:34 > 0:40:37HE SOBS

0:40:59 > 0:41:02You are so messy. I'm going to get a cloth to wipe that up.

0:41:19 > 0:41:22'This has been a fantastic result for British justice.

0:41:24 > 0:41:27'These victims have been through the most horrendous of crimes

0:41:27 > 0:41:29'and I just want to commend their bravery

0:41:29 > 0:41:33'in relation to the ordeal they've had to go through.

0:41:33 > 0:41:34'A long number of weeks in court

0:41:34 > 0:41:37'and they've had to go through a lot of trauma.

0:41:38 > 0:41:41'I would also like to thank my officers

0:41:41 > 0:41:45'for the professionalism and dedication they have shown

0:41:45 > 0:41:47'in a very complex inquiry.

0:41:49 > 0:41:51'This is the first time in UK history

0:41:51 > 0:41:54'that we've had trafficking within the UK.'

0:41:59 > 0:42:02I've gone down 60% since the verdict.

0:42:02 > 0:42:06Cos people would rather wait for a white driver than get in me cab.

0:42:06 > 0:42:09That's why we set up this group.

0:42:09 > 0:42:11To bring the people of Rochdale together.

0:42:11 > 0:42:13This is a great place to live

0:42:13 > 0:42:16and it's time, now, to focus on the positive.

0:42:16 > 0:42:19People in the community must have known was what going on.

0:42:19 > 0:42:22- Are you saying that I knew about this?- No, what I'm saying is...

0:42:22 > 0:42:24Cos, believe me, if I had, I'd have rounded 'em up meself

0:42:24 > 0:42:26and took 'em down to police station meself.

0:42:26 > 0:42:29You see the people who won't get in your cab now, that's just racist.

0:42:29 > 0:42:32That's them saying that all Pakistanis are the same.

0:42:32 > 0:42:34Ethnicity is not an issue here.

0:42:34 > 0:42:37It's not an issue. It's a fact.

0:42:37 > 0:42:41The vast majority of sex offenders are white male.

0:42:41 > 0:42:4590% are British white males acting on their own.

0:42:45 > 0:42:49But in this particular type of crime, on-street grooming

0:42:49 > 0:42:52of vulnerable girls, it's overwhelmingly

0:42:52 > 0:42:55British-Pakistani men acting together.

0:42:55 > 0:42:57Right, and that's my responsibility, is it?

0:42:57 > 0:42:59Cos I'm a British-Pakistani, too?

0:42:59 > 0:43:01Are white people ever asked to account

0:43:01 > 0:43:03for the deviant behaviour of other white people?

0:43:03 > 0:43:05No.

0:43:05 > 0:43:07It isn't about whether the guys that did it are Pakistani.

0:43:07 > 0:43:10It's what the hell was a 13-year-old girl doing in that flat?

0:43:10 > 0:43:12You're blaming the victim.

0:43:12 > 0:43:15That victim could have been your sister or your daughter.

0:43:15 > 0:43:18No. Cos my sister or my daughter - our daughters -

0:43:18 > 0:43:21aren't hanging about on street corners in short skirts

0:43:21 > 0:43:22with their chests hanging out.

0:43:22 > 0:43:26They were in trackie bottoms, these girls were in school uniform.

0:43:26 > 0:43:30These men had disgusting attitudes to women.

0:43:30 > 0:43:32Not just white women. ALL women.

0:43:32 > 0:43:36- That is a tiny, tiny proportion of British-Pakistanis.- I know.

0:43:36 > 0:43:40But as long as that attitude exists at all, here,

0:43:40 > 0:43:42in Rochdale, in our community,

0:43:42 > 0:43:45there'll be repercussions for all of us.

0:43:45 > 0:43:46MURMURS

0:43:52 > 0:43:54- RADIO:- 'Now as you may have heard in the news,

0:43:54 > 0:43:56'the Rochdale Borough Safeguarding Children Board

0:43:56 > 0:43:59'has published its report this morning

0:43:59 > 0:44:02'on the catalogue of failures in the police and Social Services

0:44:02 > 0:44:06'which led to the continued grooming and rape of a number of girls.

0:44:06 > 0:44:09'The report is very clear about the failings

0:44:09 > 0:44:11'from all the organisations involved

0:44:11 > 0:44:13'with the young people. There was more

0:44:13 > 0:44:16'that could and should have been done to protect them.

0:44:16 > 0:44:18'But The Guardian reports this morning

0:44:18 > 0:44:24'that 83 referrals were made by a worried NHS Sexual Health Team,

0:44:24 > 0:44:28'who had obviously seen these girls.

0:44:28 > 0:44:31'Why were they ignored and why are they not in your report?

0:44:31 > 0:44:33'When professionals have got concerns

0:44:33 > 0:44:35'and they're not getting the response that they need,

0:44:35 > 0:44:38'there is a board policy that says it should be escalated

0:44:38 > 0:44:41'within their own organisation and within social care

0:44:41 > 0:44:44'and that wasn't done satisfactorily, obviously.'

0:44:44 > 0:44:46DOOR SLAMS

0:44:46 > 0:44:48What's the matter with you?

0:44:48 > 0:44:50Driving in, just heard someone

0:44:50 > 0:44:53from Rochdale Council Safeguarding Children on the radio...

0:44:55 > 0:44:57Saying what? Have they "learnt lessons"?

0:44:57 > 0:44:59Have they "been on a journey"?

0:44:59 > 0:45:01There's no spin on earth that they can put on this

0:45:01 > 0:45:03to make themselves look good.

0:45:03 > 0:45:05TEARFULLY: They're saying...

0:45:05 > 0:45:08we never shared information...!

0:45:08 > 0:45:09STUNNED SILENCE

0:45:09 > 0:45:11What?

0:45:11 > 0:45:14We didn't "escalate our concerns".

0:45:14 > 0:45:17They're saying they didn't know

0:45:17 > 0:45:19because we didn't tell them.

0:45:20 > 0:45:22No way.

0:45:22 > 0:45:23No way is this happening.

0:45:23 > 0:45:25Management's not going to bat for us.

0:45:25 > 0:45:28She's saying, "Oh, don't worry about it, Sara,

0:45:28 > 0:45:30"the truth will come out at some point."

0:45:30 > 0:45:32SHE SIGHS

0:45:32 > 0:45:34Right. We're going to the union.

0:45:36 > 0:45:38I feel like I'm going mad.

0:45:40 > 0:45:42It's not you. It's everybody else.

0:45:43 > 0:45:45That's what mad people think.

0:45:46 > 0:45:48You do look a bit...

0:45:48 > 0:45:51It's the hood. Let's take the hood down.

0:45:53 > 0:45:55I'm not cut out for this, you know?

0:45:55 > 0:45:57Whistle-blowing.

0:45:58 > 0:46:01Erin Brockovich in an anorak!

0:46:01 > 0:46:03Erin Brockovich could have done with an anorak.

0:46:05 > 0:46:06Seven years.

0:46:10 > 0:46:13I've been telling people for seven years.

0:46:15 > 0:46:17And even now, they just don't want to know.

0:46:19 > 0:46:22OFFICE BUSTLE

0:46:31 > 0:46:33SHE KNOCKS

0:46:37 > 0:46:38Sir.

0:46:38 > 0:46:42I watched the ACC on the steps of court tie it up in a bow.

0:46:43 > 0:46:47Well, it was a very successful operation, Maggie.

0:46:47 > 0:46:49But that's not the whole story, is it?

0:46:51 > 0:46:56You can be sure that whatever went on down in Rochdale in 2008

0:46:56 > 0:46:59will be fully dealt with by the IPCC.

0:46:59 > 0:47:02Yeah, but I'm talking about 2005.

0:47:03 > 0:47:06GMP has known that they have a problem

0:47:06 > 0:47:11with on-street grooming since 2005,

0:47:11 > 0:47:13at least.

0:47:13 > 0:47:15And, um, I know

0:47:15 > 0:47:17because I was part of a...

0:47:17 > 0:47:22of a scoping exercise in 2005

0:47:22 > 0:47:23to see whether or not

0:47:23 > 0:47:28we had a problem in Greater Manchester with child grooming.

0:47:28 > 0:47:30And it found that we did.

0:47:31 > 0:47:33But nothing was done about it.

0:47:33 > 0:47:35The investigation was dropped.

0:47:37 > 0:47:39There were no arrests.

0:47:39 > 0:47:41There were no prosecutions.

0:47:43 > 0:47:45Sorry, Maggie.

0:47:45 > 0:47:47Is that a question...

0:47:48 > 0:47:50..or a grievance?

0:47:52 > 0:47:56I'm not comfortable with what we're claiming we knew and didn't know.

0:47:56 > 0:48:01And I'm not comfortable with the way we're treating victims.

0:48:01 > 0:48:04I wasn't comfortable in 2005 and I'm not comfortable now.

0:48:06 > 0:48:07Is this about Amber Bowen?

0:48:08 > 0:48:12This is about the ethics of subjecting vulnerable witnesses

0:48:12 > 0:48:17to months of questioning and then dropping them with no explanation,

0:48:17 > 0:48:20and no further action against anyone that they've named.

0:48:22 > 0:48:26Amber Bowen is a very particular case.

0:48:26 > 0:48:28No. She wasn't.

0:48:28 > 0:48:29She was a victim,

0:48:29 > 0:48:32just like the other girls.

0:48:32 > 0:48:34But no-one was ever arrested

0:48:34 > 0:48:37or even interviewed in relation to what they did to her.

0:48:42 > 0:48:47Look, I know you've had this explained to you many times before.

0:48:47 > 0:48:51Yes, but not in a way that makes me feel any better about the decision.

0:48:51 > 0:48:55But I will go over it with you again.

0:48:55 > 0:48:59There was no way that girl was going in the witness box.

0:48:59 > 0:49:04CPS was absolutely clear about that and it was their call to make.

0:49:06 > 0:49:07But...

0:49:09 > 0:49:11They then realised,

0:49:11 > 0:49:14a little bit late in the day, it must be said,

0:49:14 > 0:49:16that they needed the girl's evidence.

0:49:16 > 0:49:21So, they had to find a tactical way to introduce it at trial.

0:49:23 > 0:49:27How do you use someone's evidence if you don't call them as a witness?

0:49:30 > 0:49:32By putting them on the indictment.

0:49:34 > 0:49:37Amber was named as one of the co-conspirators with the men.

0:49:37 > 0:49:39WHAT?!

0:49:39 > 0:49:41It was purely tactical, Margaret.

0:49:41 > 0:49:44No-one was interested in prosecuting her.

0:49:45 > 0:49:50Does she know about this? Has anyone even bothered to tell her?!

0:49:51 > 0:49:53I'm sure she was kept fully informed.

0:49:56 > 0:49:59KNOCK AT DOOR

0:50:00 > 0:50:02- URGENT KNOCKING - All right!

0:50:04 > 0:50:07- What's all this? - Can you just take it?

0:50:08 > 0:50:10- Help me!- What's happened?

0:50:12 > 0:50:13What's wrong with you?

0:50:17 > 0:50:20- They're trying to take her.- Who are? Who's trying to take her?

0:50:20 > 0:50:23Social Services. They called me in. They're trying to get a court date.

0:50:23 > 0:50:26Don't be soft, they can't do that!

0:50:26 > 0:50:29What for? You're a brilliant mum! What they saying you've done?

0:50:29 > 0:50:30They're not saying I've done owt.

0:50:30 > 0:50:33They're saying there's a risk that I could though.

0:50:33 > 0:50:35As if I'd do anything to hurt her!

0:50:36 > 0:50:38- TEARFULLY:- Why me, Mum? Why is it always me?!

0:50:43 > 0:50:45KNOCK AT DOOR

0:50:45 > 0:50:47- Don't open it, Mum. Don't! - It might be Ruby.

0:50:47 > 0:50:49No, it's not Ruby. Ruby's got keys.

0:50:49 > 0:50:51- No, it is her.- Please, Mum.

0:50:52 > 0:50:55It's OK. All right. It's OK.

0:50:58 > 0:51:00They've gone. They've gone.

0:51:03 > 0:51:05KNOCKING AT DOOR Lorna? It's Maggie. >

0:51:05 > 0:51:08It's Margaret Oliver. Maggie. >

0:51:08 > 0:51:10KNOCKING

0:51:15 > 0:51:17What you doing?

0:51:17 > 0:51:19Coming here? Now.

0:51:19 > 0:51:22Didn't return me calls. Didn't reply to me texts.

0:51:22 > 0:51:23You promised all sorts.

0:51:24 > 0:51:27- TEARFULLY:- Should've known never to trust the police.

0:51:27 > 0:51:28I'm not the police.

0:51:28 > 0:51:32- Then why you turning up here, then? - Cos no-one can tell me not to.

0:51:33 > 0:51:34I've left GMP.

0:51:36 > 0:51:37I've resigned.

0:51:39 > 0:51:40I, um...

0:51:43 > 0:51:45I... SHE SIGHS

0:51:45 > 0:51:47I don't know what the police told you

0:51:47 > 0:51:51- about why you didn't get to go to court.- I don't care.

0:51:51 > 0:51:55- I don't give a shit about that now. - They didn't say nothing.

0:51:55 > 0:51:58Just...they're using Ruby, but they're not using her.

0:51:58 > 0:52:01That decision, I strongly disagreed with it.

0:52:02 > 0:52:06But I got taken off the job after that

0:52:06 > 0:52:09and ordered not to have any contact with you.

0:52:11 > 0:52:14But at some point, the powers that be decided that

0:52:14 > 0:52:18though they weren't going to call you as a witness,

0:52:18 > 0:52:21they still needed to be able to use your evidence.

0:52:21 > 0:52:23And as a way of doing that,

0:52:23 > 0:52:25you were named by the Crown

0:52:25 > 0:52:27on one of the charges.

0:52:27 > 0:52:29How do you mean?

0:52:30 > 0:52:33The Crown listed you alongside the men,

0:52:33 > 0:52:38on charge of conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with a child.

0:52:38 > 0:52:46What that means...is that you were as responsible as the men

0:52:46 > 0:52:50for what happened to Holly and Ruby and all the other girls.

0:52:55 > 0:52:57So, they're calling me a rapist?

0:52:57 > 0:52:59Is that what you're saying?

0:53:00 > 0:53:02They're calling me a paedophile?

0:53:07 > 0:53:09That's why this is happening.

0:53:09 > 0:53:11Why what's happening?

0:53:11 > 0:53:13Don't tell her. Don't tell her nothing.

0:53:13 > 0:53:15They're trying to take Yasmin off her.

0:53:15 > 0:53:17- Why?- Why?

0:53:19 > 0:53:21Why? Course they want to take her off me.

0:53:21 > 0:53:24Not cos of owt I've done to her, just cos of...

0:53:25 > 0:53:26..me.

0:53:26 > 0:53:27Who I am.

0:53:29 > 0:53:30What's happened to me.

0:53:31 > 0:53:32And they never could.

0:53:35 > 0:53:37But now, I've been named as a fucking sex offender,

0:53:37 > 0:53:40- I have got no chance. - Well, that's not going to happen.

0:53:40 > 0:53:42First thing tomorrow, you're going to go and get a solicitor.

0:53:42 > 0:53:46- And I'm going to come with you. - Why do you care?

0:53:46 > 0:53:47Why are you even here?

0:53:49 > 0:53:50Because I let you down.

0:53:52 > 0:53:56I gained your trust and I promised you things and...

0:53:59 > 0:54:02..I betrayed you.

0:54:02 > 0:54:03It was ME you trusted.

0:54:03 > 0:54:06It was ME you poured your heart out to.

0:54:06 > 0:54:07And...

0:54:09 > 0:54:10..I'm sorry.

0:54:12 > 0:54:14Because that's not how you treat people.

0:54:15 > 0:54:18That's not why I became a police officer.

0:54:23 > 0:54:24And...

0:54:26 > 0:54:28I...

0:54:28 > 0:54:31I couldn't help you as a police officer.

0:54:31 > 0:54:34- But, maybe, I can help you now.- Why?

0:54:36 > 0:54:38Because you need it.

0:54:38 > 0:54:40And because you deserve it.

0:54:42 > 0:54:43And...

0:54:48 > 0:54:50When it all comes out...

0:54:51 > 0:54:54..what's been done to girls like you - and it will -

0:54:56 > 0:54:59I want to look back and say I was on the right side of it.

0:55:04 > 0:55:07AMBER SOBS

0:55:33 > 0:55:37Do you think the failure in Rochdale was due to

0:55:37 > 0:55:40incompetence or indifference?

0:55:40 > 0:55:43This is a Select Committee, and I know you will answer frankly,

0:55:43 > 0:55:44Miss Rowbotham.

0:55:44 > 0:55:46It was attitudes towards teenagers.

0:55:47 > 0:55:51It was absolute disrespect

0:55:51 > 0:55:54that vulnerable young people did not have a voice.

0:55:54 > 0:55:56That they were overlooked,

0:55:56 > 0:55:59that they were discriminated against

0:55:59 > 0:56:03and they were treated appallingly by protective services.

0:56:04 > 0:56:08I think we need an absolute shift

0:56:08 > 0:56:11in what constitutes a reliable witness.

0:56:12 > 0:56:14As I've already explained,

0:56:14 > 0:56:17those young people do not present

0:56:17 > 0:56:19as clear-cut victims.

0:56:21 > 0:56:24They don't clearly state, "I am being abused."

0:56:26 > 0:56:30They are absolutely entrenched in a horrible set

0:56:30 > 0:56:33of manipulation and coercion.

0:56:33 > 0:56:37They are living in absolute fear,

0:56:37 > 0:56:43so won't easily fit a box that allows a judicial system

0:56:43 > 0:56:48to easily see that this is a child that is being abused.

0:57:08 > 0:57:10ALL CHATTER AND LAUGH

0:57:23 > 0:57:25ELLA SQUEALS

0:57:25 > 0:57:26SHE LAUGHS

0:57:26 > 0:57:29ALL CHUCKLE

0:58:13 > 0:58:15ALL GIGGLE