0:00:00 > 0:00:00- Subtitles
0:00:00 > 0:00:02- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:00:19 > 0:00:21- Welcome to Cadw Cwmni...
0:00:21 > 0:00:25- ..the programme which proves - we all have a story to tell.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28- Tonight - we wander from Sudan to Kosovo.
0:00:28 > 0:00:32- My first guest - has witnessed the after-effects...
0:00:32 > 0:00:36- ..of one of the most - atrocious wars of recent times.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40- What we saw happening in Kosovo...
0:00:40 > 0:00:43- ..in 1998 and 1999 - when NATO intervened...
0:00:44 > 0:00:48- ..was the outcome of bloody - conflicts during the 1990s...
0:00:48 > 0:00:52- ..which led to the disintegration - of the former Yugoslavia.
0:00:52 > 0:00:56- What we saw in the 1990s - and possibly the 1980s...
0:00:56 > 0:01:02- ..were Serbian politicians - using Kosovo as a catalyst...
0:01:02 > 0:01:07- ..to incite a nationalistic - uprising among the Serbian people.
0:01:07 > 0:01:11- Figures like Slobodan Milosevic - came to the fore...
0:01:11 > 0:01:15- ..whose goal it was - to rid Kosovo of Albanians.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18- The outcome of that conflict...
0:01:18 > 0:01:23- ..saw Milosevic - completely lose control in Serbia...
0:01:25 > 0:01:29- ..less than a year - after the bombing campaign.
0:01:29 > 0:01:34- Milosevic was subsequently - detained, appearing at The Hague...
0:01:34 > 0:01:36- ..where he later died.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39- He was on trial at the time.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42- We've also seen Serbia changing...
0:01:42 > 0:01:47- ..and moving away from the Serbia - that existed in the 1990s...
0:01:47 > 0:01:49- ..and embroiled in the civil war.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52- Now Serbia is far more liberated...
0:01:52 > 0:01:57- ..and has a bigger involvement - in the international community.
0:01:58 > 0:02:02- One who worked in Kosovo, - following the Balkan conflicts...
0:02:02 > 0:02:04- ..is my first guest.
0:02:05 > 0:02:09- Richard Pritchard, welcome. - What initially led you to Kosovo?
0:02:09 > 0:02:13- I was working - for the police service in Holyhead.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17- I was a detective sergeant.
0:02:17 > 0:02:22- A telex was sent - to the police station at the time.
0:02:22 > 0:02:25- There was no such thing - as email back then.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29- It said that the Foreign Office...
0:02:29 > 0:02:32- ..was preparing to send teams...
0:02:32 > 0:02:35- ..of forensic police officers...
0:02:35 > 0:02:37- ..to investigate the accusation...
0:02:38 > 0:02:41- ..that people - were being murdered and buried.
0:02:43 > 0:02:46- I thought, - well, I've done plenty of courses.
0:02:46 > 0:02:52- I might be able to put some of what - I'd learnt to good use out there...
0:02:52 > 0:02:55- ..and be of assistance - to the families.
0:02:56 > 0:02:59- So essentially, - you went there to look for graves?
0:03:00 > 0:03:02- Yes, graves and bodies.
0:03:02 > 0:03:06- What was the purpose - of you going there?
0:03:06 > 0:03:10- Did you go there to find bodies or - to confirm people had been killed?
0:03:11 > 0:03:13- To prove they'd been killed.
0:03:14 > 0:03:16- We didn't know - who had killed them...
0:03:17 > 0:03:20- ..but we knew - they'd been unlawfully killed.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22- Was it difficult finding the graves?
0:03:22 > 0:03:24- Was it difficult finding the graves?- - Teams before us...
0:03:24 > 0:03:28- ..had questioned local people...
0:03:29 > 0:03:32- ..and were able to tell us - where the graves were located.
0:03:33 > 0:03:36- What was the next step?
0:03:37 > 0:03:41- The Royal Engineers' - bomb disposal team was deployed.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44- The next process...
0:03:44 > 0:03:47- ..involved digging up the graves...
0:03:47 > 0:03:52- ..until we found a body or bodies - that might have been buried in them.
0:03:52 > 0:03:57- Family members - were also searching for loved ones.
0:03:58 > 0:04:00- It must have been very emotional.
0:04:00 > 0:04:04- Yes, in some areas - the families had buried the bodies.
0:04:04 > 0:04:07- They'd found the bodies - and buried them.
0:04:07 > 0:04:11- They wanted to be present - when we recovered them.
0:04:11 > 0:04:14- We had to work closely with them...
0:04:14 > 0:04:16- ..to get them on our side.
0:04:17 > 0:04:21- How important was it for them - to prove they had been killed?
0:04:21 > 0:04:23- It was a major issue for them.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27- They wanted to prove that - their sons, daughters or husbands...
0:04:28 > 0:04:31- ..had been killed by the Serbs...
0:04:31 > 0:04:35- ..and wanted the world to know - that they'd been killed.
0:04:35 > 0:04:38- How were they killed? - Had they been shot?
0:04:39 > 0:04:41- Had they been bombed?
0:04:41 > 0:04:45- When you spoke to the natives...
0:04:45 > 0:04:48- ..they said Serbs - bombed the villages...
0:04:49 > 0:04:53- ..and as villagers were fleeing, - snipers were gunning them down...
0:04:54 > 0:04:56- ..and leaving them for dead.
0:04:56 > 0:05:00- Was it difficult - tracing the families of the dead?
0:05:01 > 0:05:05- You must've uncovered a grave, - not knowing who was buried?
0:05:05 > 0:05:09- We had no idea who had been buried - in some of the graves.
0:05:09 > 0:05:14- Unfortunately we had to follow - the same procedure...
0:05:14 > 0:05:18- ..of returning the corpse - to the hospital for a post-mortem.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23- But before - the post-mortem took place...
0:05:23 > 0:05:26- ..we removed the corpse's clothes...
0:05:26 > 0:05:30- ..washed them by hand - in these large tubs...
0:05:30 > 0:05:33- ..laid them out - and photographed them.
0:05:33 > 0:05:37- We compiled - an album of photographs...
0:05:37 > 0:05:39- ..to see if anyone - recognized the clothes.
0:05:40 > 0:05:44- There might have been a patch - that a mother had sewn.
0:05:44 > 0:05:45- That's how we tried to find out.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47- That's how we tried to find out.- - How long were you there?
0:05:48 > 0:05:49- Five weeks in total.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53- Five weeks in total.- - Did they restrict you to five weeks?
0:05:53 > 0:05:58- They thought five weeks was adequate - for the work we were doing.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02- How did you cope with your emotions?
0:06:04 > 0:06:09- There were 16 of us in all who - were police officers and doctors.
0:06:09 > 0:06:14- At night we'd go out for a meal...
0:06:14 > 0:06:20- ..and get it out of our systems - by discussing and talking about it.
0:06:20 > 0:06:22- I presume for that kind of work...
0:06:23 > 0:06:26- ..you have to try and be - emotionally detached?
0:06:27 > 0:06:31- Like any doctor or nurse, - you can't get emotionally attached.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34- I'm sure - it was unavoidable at times.
0:06:34 > 0:06:39- Yes, there was one time when we were - on a mountainside outside Pristina.
0:06:39 > 0:06:43- An old man approached us and said...
0:06:46 > 0:06:50- .."That is my nephew buried there. - I buried him."
0:06:50 > 0:06:53- I asked him - what had happened to him.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57- He told me the Serbs - had infiltrated the village...
0:06:57 > 0:07:01- ..shot him in the back and as he - went down, they broke his neck...
0:07:01 > 0:07:04- ..with the butt of the rifle.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07- "I've got a bit of his skull here," - he said.
0:07:07 > 0:07:10- "That's how we remember him by."
0:07:10 > 0:07:14- I said, "When we - take the body to the mortuary...
0:07:14 > 0:07:16- "..for the post-mortem...
0:07:16 > 0:07:19- "..we have to try - and identify this body.
0:07:19 > 0:07:22- "If I can have - that piece of skull from you...
0:07:23 > 0:07:27- "..we might be physically able - to fit that into his skull...
0:07:27 > 0:07:31- "..and positively identify - this person as your nephew."
0:07:31 > 0:07:37- He said, "Yes, by all means, - but I must have it back."
0:07:37 > 0:07:40- We took it from him, - took his photograph...
0:07:41 > 0:07:43- ..and took the body - back to the hospital.
0:07:44 > 0:07:48- The post-mortem - was carried out the following day.
0:07:48 > 0:07:54- The skull fragment from - the old gentleman fitted perfectly.
0:07:54 > 0:07:59- We then had to drive - back up the mountain...
0:07:59 > 0:08:02- ..to return the skull fragment.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04- He was very grateful.
0:08:04 > 0:08:09- Once they'd buried their loved ones, - did they flee the village...
0:08:09 > 0:08:12- ..only to return later?
0:08:12 > 0:08:15- They were frightened - and you could tell...
0:08:16 > 0:08:20- ..if family members themselves - had buried the body or the Serbs.
0:08:21 > 0:08:25- It was customary for the family - to use the Drasa method.
0:08:25 > 0:08:27- They'd dig the hole for the grave...
0:08:28 > 0:08:33- ..place the corpse inside - and lay wooden planks across it...
0:08:33 > 0:08:36- ..so that there was - enough space around the corpse.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43- They claimed - it was for the spirit to circulate.
0:08:44 > 0:08:45- For the spirit to circulate?
0:08:45 > 0:08:47- For the spirit to circulate?- - Yes, that's what they thought.
0:08:47 > 0:08:53- The Serbs just - threw the bodies into the graves.
0:08:53 > 0:08:57- What did you do - with the bodies in Kosovo...
0:08:58 > 0:09:00- ..once you'd recovered them?
0:09:00 > 0:09:03- We took them to the mortuary - and locked them in...
0:09:04 > 0:09:07- ..to make sure - they weren't tampered with.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10- The following day, - the bodies were collected...
0:09:11 > 0:09:14- ..and they - were taken to the post-mortem.
0:09:14 > 0:09:17- The pathologist - would register the body...
0:09:18 > 0:09:20- ..and each corpse - had its own number.
0:09:20 > 0:09:24- They were identified - by their numbers.
0:09:24 > 0:09:28- As soon as - the post-mortem was carried out...
0:09:29 > 0:09:32- ..we took the corpse - to a refrigerated container...
0:09:33 > 0:09:35- ..outside the hospital...
0:09:35 > 0:09:39- ..for the family - or the Red Crescent to collect it.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42- In terms of the bodies - you recovered...
0:09:42 > 0:09:46- ..what percentage of those - had been murdered?
0:09:46 > 0:09:52- We recovered 55 bodies in all.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54- Of those 55...
0:09:54 > 0:09:57- ..we proved 44 of them - had been murdered.
0:09:57 > 0:10:02- The other 11 couldn't be proven due - to the condition of their bodies.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05- They were too burnt and decomposed.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09- Taking into account - your experiences...
0:10:09 > 0:10:13- ..does it surprise you what one man - is capable of doing to another?
0:10:14 > 0:10:17- No, it's horrific - what man is capable of.
0:10:17 > 0:10:20- It's awful - what one man can do his fellow man.
0:10:20 > 0:10:24- The Serbs fought the Albanians.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30- They had been living in harmony - in the same village...
0:10:30 > 0:10:34- ..and then, suddenly, - they started killing each other...
0:10:34 > 0:10:36- ..and burning each other.
0:10:36 > 0:10:37- ..and burning each other.- - Would you go back?
0:10:38 > 0:10:39- Yes.
0:10:39 > 0:10:41- Yes.- - Do you regret...
0:10:41 > 0:10:45- ..not having - more than five weeks there?
0:10:45 > 0:10:49- It took five weeks just to - familiarize yourself with the work.
0:10:50 > 0:10:52- It took time - to do the job correctly.
0:10:52 > 0:10:56- I could have spent - four months out there.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00- Do you think perhaps you - would've become hardened to it...
0:11:01 > 0:11:03- ..if you'd stayed for longer?
0:11:03 > 0:11:05- Yes, perhaps so.
0:11:06 > 0:11:10- That kind of work would definitely - take its toll on you by the end.
0:11:10 > 0:11:16- You're dealing with bodies - and grieving families.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19- Anglesey's a long way from Kosovo!
0:11:19 > 0:11:21- Just a bit!
0:11:21 > 0:11:24- But every day was worth it.
0:11:25 > 0:11:26- Glad to hear it.
0:11:27 > 0:11:31- Thank you - for sharing your story with me.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33- Thank you for the invitation.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37- Time for a break now, - but when we return...
0:11:37 > 0:11:40- ..we're travelling - from Kosovo to Sudan...
0:11:40 > 0:11:44- ..to hear from a man - who was taken hostage out there.
0:11:44 > 0:11:46- Join me in two minutes.
0:11:46 > 0:11:47- .
0:11:51 > 0:11:51- Subtitles
0:11:51 > 0:11:53- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:11:53 > 0:11:56- Welcome back to Cadw Cwmni.
0:11:56 > 0:12:01- We've already heard about Glyn - Pritchard's experiences in Kosovo.
0:12:01 > 0:12:06- My next guest is also familiar with - dangers overseas and civil wars.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10- What we saw - at the beginning of 1955...
0:12:11 > 0:12:16- ..was a period of instability in - Sudan which has lasted until now.
0:12:17 > 0:12:18- What happened in 1955...
0:12:19 > 0:12:22- ..was the outcome - of a drawn-out process...
0:12:22 > 0:12:24- ..for Sudan's independence.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27- It was also the outcome of events...
0:12:27 > 0:12:31- ..during - the Anglo-Egyptian occupation...
0:12:31 > 0:12:34- ..which lasted from - the end of the 19th century...
0:12:35 > 0:12:37- ..to Sudan's independence in 1956.
0:12:37 > 0:12:43- Egypt and Britain were competing - for dominance over the Sudanese.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48- Sudan itself, - especially during the 1950s...
0:12:48 > 0:12:52- ..was an archaic province - of the Ottoman Empire.
0:12:52 > 0:12:57- Hundreds of thousands were killed - in the Sudanese War of the 1960s.
0:12:57 > 0:13:01- It was a ferocious war.
0:13:01 > 0:13:03- This, in effect..
0:13:03 > 0:13:07- ..shaped the politics of Sudan, - not only in the 1960s...
0:13:07 > 0:13:11- ..but throughout - the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s.
0:13:11 > 0:13:15- My next guest has been to Sudan - as well as many other countries.
0:13:15 > 0:13:17- Originally from Llanon...
0:13:17 > 0:13:21- ..he's travelled - to more countries than the Pope!
0:13:21 > 0:13:23- John Lewis, welcome.
0:13:24 > 0:13:28- Let's begin with Sudan. - What kind of country is it?
0:13:28 > 0:13:31- It was once - the largest country in Africa...
0:13:31 > 0:13:34- ..covering - almost a million square miles.
0:13:34 > 0:13:38- Today it's divided - into South Sudan and Sudan.
0:13:38 > 0:13:43- I was based in Darfur, - where I conducted the survey.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46- It's a simple - and obvious question...
0:13:46 > 0:13:51- ..but what's a man - from West Wales doing in Sudan?
0:13:51 > 0:13:57- I was an engineer - with the geophysics team.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01- What were you - looking for in particular?
0:14:02 > 0:14:04- Minerals - gold, molybdenum...
0:14:04 > 0:14:07- ..cobalt, copper.
0:14:07 > 0:14:13- But we were looking - for subterranean water in Sudan.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16- Enormous lakes beneath the desert.
0:14:17 > 0:14:19- The Sudanese War...
0:14:19 > 0:14:23- ..is what we think about - when the country is mentioned.
0:14:24 > 0:14:27- What was the situation like - when you were there?
0:14:27 > 0:14:31- It was relatively quiet when - we began the survey in January.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33- By the end of May...
0:14:34 > 0:14:37- ..we heard on the radio...
0:14:37 > 0:14:41- ..that there was - civil unrest in Khartoum.
0:14:41 > 0:14:46- Suddenly, we were engulfed - by about 500 soldiers.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51- Essentially, what they - were looking for was transport.
0:14:51 > 0:14:57- We had four Land Rovers, - so they held us at gunpoint...
0:14:57 > 0:15:00- ..for another fortnight.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03- About half of them - disappeared after that.
0:15:03 > 0:15:06- They took three Land Rovers...
0:15:06 > 0:15:09- ..and siphoned the fuel - from our vehicle.
0:15:09 > 0:15:12- You've just told me, in passing...
0:15:12 > 0:15:14- ..that 500 soldiers engulfed you.
0:15:15 > 0:15:19- You were held hostage - for a fortnight in the desert?
0:15:19 > 0:15:24- Yes, to begin with, and then - half the regiment went away...
0:15:25 > 0:15:27- ..leaving one captain behind.
0:15:27 > 0:15:32- They took most of the food, but we - had some left and a little water.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36- Was there ever a time - when you feared for your life?
0:15:37 > 0:15:39- Yes, within the first fortnight...
0:15:39 > 0:15:44- ..because they were very nervous.
0:15:44 > 0:15:49- Many of the soldiers - were uneducated.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53- They were young recruits.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56- You weren't sure - what was going to happen.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59- The three captains spoke English.
0:16:01 > 0:16:03- Two of them had left...
0:16:04 > 0:16:09- ..but the one who was in charge - of the other half was unfriendly.
0:16:09 > 0:16:14- It becomes - a psychological game then.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18- You're trying not to upset anyone...
0:16:18 > 0:16:21- ..and you're - speaking to them politely...
0:16:22 > 0:16:25- ..and possibly - sympathizing with them...
0:16:25 > 0:16:28- ..just to keep them on your side.
0:16:28 > 0:16:33- As time went on - - four weeks, five weeks...
0:16:33 > 0:16:37- ..we had to - ration the food and water...
0:16:37 > 0:16:41- ..not knowing how long - we were going to be there...
0:16:41 > 0:16:43- ..and all of a sudden they fled.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46- I woke up one morning - and they'd gone.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50- They'd all gone, - along with the natives we'd hired.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53- We hired 50 of them - and they'd gone too.
0:16:54 > 0:16:56- There were only four of us left.
0:17:00 > 0:17:05- Myself, an engineer, two - geophysicists and one geologist.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08- So you've gone from - a fortnight of oppression...
0:17:09 > 0:17:12- ..to waking up one morning - with only four of you left?
0:17:12 > 0:17:14- Did you have any food?
0:17:15 > 0:17:20- They took all the guns, - so we couldn't hunt for food.
0:17:20 > 0:17:26- There was guinea fowl out there - but we had no way of hunting it.
0:17:26 > 0:17:30- There was about - three gallons of water left...
0:17:30 > 0:17:36- ..and five or six tins - of meat or whatever.
0:17:36 > 0:17:39- What do you do in that situation?
0:17:39 > 0:17:41- You're in the middle of nowhere.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43- Did you have a Land Rover?
0:17:44 > 0:17:48- There was one Land Rover left but - they'd siphoned the fuel from it.
0:17:48 > 0:17:54- So you couldn't ration since you - didn't know how long you'd be there?
0:17:54 > 0:17:59- We tried to ration, - but six weeks went by...
0:17:59 > 0:18:02- ..and I'd lost two stone in weight.
0:18:02 > 0:18:08- The usual routine was for us - to return every three weeks...
0:18:08 > 0:18:13- ..and go to - the embassy's library in El-Fashir.
0:18:13 > 0:18:17- We became friendly - with the librarian.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20- She threw a party every three weeks.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24- Five weeks had gone by and she - couldn't understand where we were.
0:18:25 > 0:18:29- She'd heard there was unrest, - so she raised the alarm...
0:18:29 > 0:18:34- ..and informed the ambassador - in Khartoum who contacted our base.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38- Our boss, a fellow engineer...
0:18:38 > 0:18:42- ..then looked at the survey plan.
0:18:42 > 0:18:45- He had the same copy as us...
0:18:45 > 0:18:49- ..and knew something was wrong - when we didn't return.
0:18:49 > 0:18:54- The government had - another battalion in El-Fashir...
0:18:55 > 0:18:57- ..and it sent them to search for us.
0:18:57 > 0:19:01- They had an idea - where to look for us...
0:19:01 > 0:19:04- ..in, say, Abyad or Amcadada...
0:19:05 > 0:19:07- ..but it was 200 miles away.
0:19:07 > 0:19:12- When they found us, - we'd finished the food and water...
0:19:12 > 0:19:17- ..and we were draining the - radiator water from the Land Rover.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19- So you were drinking radiator water?
0:19:19 > 0:19:23- So you were drinking radiator water?- - Yes, we used our shirts as sieves...
0:19:23 > 0:19:29- ..to remove the majority - of the impurities from the water.
0:19:29 > 0:19:33- How long would you have survived - if they hadn't turned up?
0:19:33 > 0:19:35- I'd say less than a week.
0:19:35 > 0:19:39- Maybe four or five days.
0:19:39 > 0:19:43- It's so hot out there, - you perspire quite a bit.
0:19:43 > 0:19:48- It was around - 45-50 degrees Celsius in the heat.
0:19:48 > 0:19:50- It was sweltering.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53- Didn't you think of walking?
0:19:53 > 0:19:55- Didn't you think of walking?- - That's the worst thing you can do.
0:19:56 > 0:20:00- You're much safer staying with the - Land Rover or something similar.
0:20:01 > 0:20:05- A search and rescue mission is - more likely to spot a Land Rover...
0:20:05 > 0:20:09- ..than the body of a man, - for example.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12- You can live without food - but water is vital.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15- Especially in that heat.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17- Water is essential.
0:20:17 > 0:20:21- Once the radiator water - had run out...
0:20:21 > 0:20:24- ..we would've - had to drink our own urine.
0:20:24 > 0:20:26- In that kind of heat...
0:20:26 > 0:20:30- ..you try to retain as much water - in the body as possible...
0:20:31 > 0:20:34- ..otherwise fatigue sets in...
0:20:34 > 0:20:38- ..and you become disorientated.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42- I wanted to ask you about - the mental strain you were under...
0:20:43 > 0:20:46- ..because it's too hot - in that situation to do anything.
0:20:47 > 0:20:48- All you can do is sit there.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50- All you can do is sit there.- - Move as little as possible...
0:20:50 > 0:20:55- ..to prevent perspiration, which - removes water from the body.
0:20:55 > 0:20:57- You also lose salt.
0:20:57 > 0:21:01- One of the causes of fatigue - is lack of salt in the body...
0:21:01 > 0:21:03- ..in those kinds of temperatures.
0:21:04 > 0:21:06- You've led an interesting life.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09- You've been lucky - to return from some places.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12- Where were you - during the crash landing?
0:21:12 > 0:21:16- That was in the Congo. - I was working in Lubumbashi.
0:21:16 > 0:21:20- It's situated at the base of - the Congo in the Katanga province.
0:21:21 > 0:21:23- Everything was going well.
0:21:23 > 0:21:25- We flew out of Jo'burg.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30- 20 minutes into the flight...
0:21:30 > 0:21:35- ..the captain was being sick in - the toilet at the back of the plane.
0:21:35 > 0:21:39- He was very ill - - he had sickness and diarrhoea.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43- The co-pilot was a young man.
0:21:43 > 0:21:48- One of the engines - started spluttering.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50- He shouted across the plane...
0:21:50 > 0:21:55- ..that he had to disconnect - the propeller from the engine.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58- They call it feathering the engine.
0:22:00 > 0:22:02- He made a mistake.
0:22:04 > 0:22:09- He'd feathered the wrong engine.
0:22:09 > 0:22:13- We were only 400 feet in the air - at that point...
0:22:13 > 0:22:16- ..and nosedived.
0:22:16 > 0:22:21- Fortunately - we landed in a clearing...
0:22:21 > 0:22:24- ..in the long grass.
0:22:24 > 0:22:29- The plane - was bouncing off the ground.
0:22:29 > 0:22:33- It then came to a standstill.
0:22:33 > 0:22:36- A piece of kit - had fallen on my head.
0:22:36 > 0:22:41- A lump was - the only injury I sustained.
0:22:41 > 0:22:43- Then it fell completely silent.
0:22:44 > 0:22:49- The skipper was in pain. - Something had happened to him.
0:22:50 > 0:22:52- Everybody disembarked the aeroplane.
0:22:52 > 0:22:56- The only thing - that was working was the HF radio.
0:22:56 > 0:23:01- We radioed Lubumbashi and - they sent a helicopter to rescue us.
0:23:01 > 0:23:05- Thank you very much, John, - for joining me on Cadw Cwmni.
0:23:06 > 0:23:10- I've enjoyed hearing your stories. - Thank you very much.
0:23:10 > 0:23:12- You're very welcome.
0:23:12 > 0:23:16- That's all for tonight. - I'd like to thank both my guests.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20- If you have a story to tell, - please get in touch.
0:23:20 > 0:23:26- S4C provides the perfect platform - for your interesting stories.
0:23:26 > 0:23:29- Until next time, - from me, John Hardy, goodbye.
0:23:48 > 0:23:50- S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.
0:23:50 > 0:23:50- .