0:00:00 > 0:00:00- Subtitles
0:00:00 > 0:00:02- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:00:20 > 0:00:22- Welcome to Cadw Cwmni...
0:00:22 > 0:00:26- ..the series which provides - a platform for your stories...
0:00:26 > 0:00:30- ..and offers a personal perspective - of historical events.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32- Later we celebrate 75 years...
0:00:32 > 0:00:36- ..of Britain's contribution - to overseas education.
0:00:36 > 0:00:41- But first, an eyewitness account - of one of our history's atrocities.
0:00:41 > 0:00:46- The mere mention of the place - sends shivers down the spine.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48- Aberfan.
0:00:51 > 0:00:54- The Aberfan landslide - resulted in tragedy...
0:00:54 > 0:00:57- ..on Friday 21 October 1966.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00- At a quarter past nine - in the morning...
0:01:01 > 0:01:04- ..a spoil tip of coal - from the Merthyr Vale colliery...
0:01:05 > 0:01:08- ..collapsed onto - the village of Aberfan...
0:01:08 > 0:01:12- ..burying a primary school, - 20 houses and a farm.
0:01:12 > 0:01:15- 144 lives were lost - in the tragedy...
0:01:15 > 0:01:18- ..including five teachers - and 116 children...
0:01:18 > 0:01:22- ..most of whom were aged - between seven and 10 years old.
0:01:23 > 0:01:25- Following the landslide...
0:01:26 > 0:01:28- ..a tribunal was called...
0:01:28 > 0:01:31- ..to investigate - the causes of the disaster.
0:01:31 > 0:01:35- The coal tip's owners, - the National Coal Board...
0:01:36 > 0:01:38- ..claimed it was a natural disaster.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43- But it later transpired - that the National Coal Board...
0:01:43 > 0:01:47- ..had been aware of the subsidence - some months previously.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52- The National Coal Board was ordered - to pay 50 pounds compensation...
0:01:53 > 0:01:56- ..to every family that had - lost a child in the disaster.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59- It was a paltry sum - for a human life.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03- No-one was ever sacked - or prosecuted for the tragedy.
0:02:05 > 0:02:10- A day which has been etched on - the minds of those who were there.
0:02:10 > 0:02:13- I remember passing through - as a child of 10.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16- My first guest was there.
0:02:16 > 0:02:19- Reverend Professor D Ben Rees, - welcome to Cadw Cwmni.
0:02:20 > 0:02:24- When did you hear about - the Aberfan disaster?
0:02:25 > 0:02:28- The tragedy happened - at 9.15 in the morning.
0:02:29 > 0:02:35- Within 10 minutes, I saw ambulances - hurtling down the road...
0:02:35 > 0:02:37- ..past Cilfynydd common.
0:02:37 > 0:02:42- The house where I lived - in Abercynon overlooked the valley.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45- News came on the radio...
0:02:46 > 0:02:50- ..that a state of emergency - had been declared in Aberfan.
0:02:50 > 0:02:52- I jumped in the car...
0:02:53 > 0:02:56- ..in the clothes - I had been wearing around the house.
0:02:56 > 0:03:00- I got in the car - in my old clothes...
0:03:00 > 0:03:03- ..and drove to - Pantglas Junior School.
0:03:04 > 0:03:06- Despite your associations - with Liverpool...
0:03:07 > 0:03:10- ..your ministry - was in South Wales at the time.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13- How far away from Aberfan were you?
0:03:13 > 0:03:15- I was four or five miles away.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17- I moved to Abercynon in 1962...
0:03:18 > 0:03:22- ..but my ministry - also covered Penrhiwceiber.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26- In 1965 I took on another chapel - in the Aberfan area...
0:03:26 > 0:03:28- ..known as Merthyr Vale.
0:03:28 > 0:03:30- I'd spent a year...
0:03:30 > 0:03:34- ..getting to know the residents - of Aberfan and Merthyr Vale.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38- What sort of community - existed in Aberfan in 1966?
0:03:39 > 0:03:41- It was very close knit.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45- There were many - Welsh speakers in the community.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49- It was a working-class society...
0:03:49 > 0:03:51- ..and very close knit.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54- The people were warm and friendly.
0:03:56 > 0:03:58- Everybody knew one another...
0:03:59 > 0:04:03- ..and more than one generation - of the same family lived there.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06- What awaited you when you arrived?
0:04:09 > 0:04:11- I'll never forget it.
0:04:14 > 0:04:16- For people like me...
0:04:16 > 0:04:19- ..there was - nothing much we could do...
0:04:19 > 0:04:23- ..apart from - get stuck in and clear the debris...
0:04:23 > 0:04:30- ..and help people with - the search-and-rescue mission...
0:04:30 > 0:04:35- ..by removing the slurry...
0:04:36 > 0:04:41- ..in order to penetrate - the enormous tip...
0:04:42 > 0:04:45- ..which consisted of water, - coal and so on...
0:04:45 > 0:04:48- ..and get to the little children...
0:04:48 > 0:04:53- ..who were trapped inside - together with some of the teachers.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56- You were - a young minister at the time.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59- It was a new experience for you.
0:04:59 > 0:05:03- How do you console people - when a tragedy like that happens?
0:05:03 > 0:05:07- It's a case of - just being there for them.
0:05:07 > 0:05:11- I'd dealt with bereavement - before the Aberfan tragedy...
0:05:11 > 0:05:15- ..when a young boy - was killed in a traffic accident.
0:05:15 > 0:05:18- I remember - breaking the news to his parents.
0:05:18 > 0:05:22- I learnt that the most important - thing was to be there for them...
0:05:22 > 0:05:26- ..and praying with them, - as I did in Aberfan.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29- I accompanied the fathers - to the two chapels...
0:05:29 > 0:05:33- ..where the bodies - of the children were lying...
0:05:33 > 0:05:36- ..to identify them.
0:05:36 > 0:05:40- They were glad - to have someone by their side.
0:05:40 > 0:05:44- The fathers were grateful.
0:05:44 > 0:05:48- Only one person at a time - was allowed in the chapel...
0:05:49 > 0:05:51- ..and I accompanied them.
0:05:51 > 0:05:55- My presence was a comfort - to the fathers and the families.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57- They'll never forget that.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01- You were also present - at the burial services.
0:06:04 > 0:06:08- As I recall, the major funeral - was held on 27 October.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10- I attended the service.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15- A service was held - to lay to rest 82 of them...
0:06:15 > 0:06:17- ..that day in the cemetery.
0:06:18 > 0:06:23- Whenever I'm in the vicinity, - I go to visit their graves.
0:06:23 > 0:06:28- I knew many of the families.
0:06:28 > 0:06:32- It was a very difficult time.
0:06:34 > 0:06:39- Language - can sometimes be very explosive...
0:06:40 > 0:06:42- ..and problems arose from that.
0:06:42 > 0:06:47- It's difficult - trying to explain it...
0:06:48 > 0:06:50- ..but what affected the families...
0:06:50 > 0:06:53- ..was the language that was used.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57- There were so many words - uttered in the services...
0:06:57 > 0:06:59- ..that reduced them to tears.
0:07:00 > 0:07:05- Words like - school, children, mountain, coal...
0:07:05 > 0:07:07- ..or even rain.
0:07:08 > 0:07:12- So many words were emotional - triggers, so I avoided using them...
0:07:12 > 0:07:16- ..because they caused - so much hurt for people.
0:07:16 > 0:07:21- It made me mindful - of the words I used...
0:07:21 > 0:07:24- ..in the service and in the sermon.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27- I had to tread very carefully.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29- During the aftermath...
0:07:29 > 0:07:33- ..my sole purpose - was to comfort the families...
0:07:34 > 0:07:36- ..in their hour of need.
0:07:36 > 0:07:39- They were completely helpless.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42- I was a member - of the Aberfan Disaster Committee...
0:07:43 > 0:07:45- ..which dealt with the fund...
0:07:45 > 0:07:50- ..that received donations totalling - a million and a half pounds.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55- I knew the National Coal Board - was culpable.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59- They lacked sensitivity - in the matter...
0:07:59 > 0:08:02- ..and so did Lord Robens.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06- He and the NCB - wanted to take the money from you.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09- They did take the money from us.
0:08:09 > 0:08:11- They took 150,000 of the money...
0:08:12 > 0:08:15- ..to pay for the removal - of the slurry and debris.
0:08:17 > 0:08:19- That's scandalous.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24- The families received some justice - but it was too little.
0:08:24 > 0:08:28- We had to wait until - the Labour government of 1997...
0:08:29 > 0:08:33- ..for the 150,000 taken by the NCB - to be reimbursed.
0:08:33 > 0:08:38- But the value of that money was - far less than it had been in 1966.
0:08:38 > 0:08:41- They added nothing to it.
0:08:41 > 0:08:46- I remember talking to someone - who had survived the disaster.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49- He said that - some of the Aberfan community...
0:08:49 > 0:08:52- ..were left with a sense of guilt.
0:08:52 > 0:08:56- That's true. They'd experienced - profound suffering.
0:08:56 > 0:09:00- Some of them confided in me.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03- When I go to Aberfan, - I visit those I know.
0:09:04 > 0:09:07- I agree with your point.
0:09:07 > 0:09:12- They suffered greatly, - both psychologically...
0:09:12 > 0:09:14- ..and emotionally.
0:09:14 > 0:09:20- But in adversity, - we did our best to comfort those...
0:09:20 > 0:09:24- ..who had endured a tragedy...
0:09:24 > 0:09:28- ..that none of us can comprehend.
0:09:28 > 0:09:31- Similar tragedies happen...
0:09:31 > 0:09:35- ..but that situation - was incredibly harrowing.
0:09:37 > 0:09:39- You were in the middle of it.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42- How did you cope with it personally?
0:09:44 > 0:09:49- Looking back, it was far from easy.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52- I was young.
0:09:52 > 0:09:58- Many people were very supportive.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02- I had been touched - by people's kindness.
0:10:03 > 0:10:08- That sustained my faith - in the human race.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11- It was important that others...
0:10:11 > 0:10:14- ..continued to remember - about the community.
0:10:14 > 0:10:18- Efforts were made - to comfort the communities...
0:10:19 > 0:10:21- ..in Aberfan and Merthyr Vale.
0:10:21 > 0:10:24- It would've been easy for you - to lose faith.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29- Many people did lose faith.
0:10:32 > 0:10:34- But what was of great solace...
0:10:34 > 0:10:39- ..was seeing how the English Baptist - minister, Reverend Haines...
0:10:39 > 0:10:42- ..who had lost - two children of his own...
0:10:42 > 0:10:46- ..remained in the area - throughout his ministry.
0:10:46 > 0:10:51- He was an exemplary figure - for young ministers like myself.
0:10:52 > 0:10:56- Unlike him, I could leave Aberfan - at the end of the day.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59- I mentioned earlier, - for those of a certain age...
0:11:00 > 0:11:04- ..the mere mention of the place - sends a shiver down the spine.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07- What goes through your mind - when you hear the name?
0:11:08 > 0:11:11- The heart-rending cries - of the children.
0:11:11 > 0:11:15- It is probably the greatest tragedy - we have suffered as a nation.
0:11:16 > 0:11:20- Senghennydd was tragic because of - the miners who lost their lives...
0:11:21 > 0:11:23- ..but they were adults.
0:11:23 > 0:11:25- These were young children...
0:11:25 > 0:11:29- ..who hadn't had the opportunity - to live their lives.
0:11:29 > 0:11:34- We felt so helpless in it all.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37- They were - the lost generation of Aberfan.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40- Thank you for joining me, Ben...
0:11:40 > 0:11:42- ..and recounting your story.
0:11:43 > 0:11:45- Join me again after the break.
0:11:48 > 0:11:49- .
0:11:52 > 0:11:52- Subtitles
0:11:52 > 0:11:54- Subtitles- - Subtitles
0:11:55 > 0:11:57- Welcome back to Cadw Cwmni.
0:11:57 > 0:12:02- We now turn our attention to Africa - and other overseas countries.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05- The British Council - was founded 75 years ago.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08- It has been instrumental - in developing...
0:12:09 > 0:12:13- ..educational opportunities - for less privileged people overseas.
0:12:15 > 0:12:17- International education...
0:12:17 > 0:12:21- ..has been a pillar - of British diplomacy...
0:12:22 > 0:12:24- ..for 75 years.
0:12:24 > 0:12:26- One of the prime objectives...
0:12:26 > 0:12:32- ..was to promote - culture, education, science...
0:12:32 > 0:12:36- ..and the British arts overseas.
0:12:36 > 0:12:39- They quickly realized...
0:12:39 > 0:12:44- ..that education was one of - the most important tools...
0:12:45 > 0:12:48- ..in the developing world.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52- Learning English...
0:12:53 > 0:12:57- ..was one of - the most important skills...
0:12:57 > 0:13:00- ..since knowledge - was imparted to them in English.
0:13:01 > 0:13:05- Centres were established worldwide.
0:13:05 > 0:13:09- There are currently - 100 centres around the world.
0:13:09 > 0:13:13- They learn English - and promote British culture...
0:13:13 > 0:13:15- ..in all those countries.
0:13:19 > 0:13:23- I'm joined by someone who's been - involved with the project.
0:13:23 > 0:13:26- Welcome to the programme, - Eddie Williams.
0:13:26 > 0:13:30- How long have you - been involved with the project?
0:13:30 > 0:13:33- I was working - at Reading University at the time.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37- The British Council - wanted to send someone to Rwanda.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42- They asked Reading University - to find suitable candidates.
0:13:42 > 0:13:46- I was the only one in my department - who could speak French.
0:13:46 > 0:13:50- At the time, the only languages - spoken in Rwanda...
0:13:50 > 0:13:52- ..were Kinyarwanda and French.
0:13:53 > 0:13:55- French was the official language.
0:13:55 > 0:13:59- Because I spoke fluent French - I was sent to Rwanda.
0:13:59 > 0:14:03- What did - your work entail in Rwanda?
0:14:03 > 0:14:07- They wanted to improve - the English department...
0:14:07 > 0:14:09- ..at Rwanda University.
0:14:10 > 0:14:14- Instead of concentrating...
0:14:14 > 0:14:18- ..on English linguistics...
0:14:18 > 0:14:24- ..and literature - such as Shakespeare and Dickens...
0:14:24 > 0:14:27- ..they wanted to focus more - on the English language.
0:14:28 > 0:14:32- They wanted to improve - their standard of English.
0:14:32 > 0:14:36- I went there to help change - the English syllabus...
0:14:36 > 0:14:38- ..from something old fashioned...
0:14:39 > 0:14:42- ..to something that enabled them - to learn English better.
0:14:43 > 0:14:48- It sounds odd to be teaching - Dickens and Shakespeare in Rwanda.
0:14:49 > 0:14:53- Is it fair to say - that's rather colonial?
0:14:54 > 0:14:57- Yes, it is. - They also learnt Greek and Latin.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00- You wouldn't believe - the things they learnt.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03- Rwanda is famous for its problems...
0:15:03 > 0:15:05- ..such as the poverty and civil war.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09- That was the situation like - when you were there?
0:15:09 > 0:15:15- I was there before the civil war - and the university was elsewhere.
0:15:15 > 0:15:18- Back then it was in the north - but it's since moved.
0:15:19 > 0:15:24- The Hutus and Tutsis - weren't at loggerheads at the time.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27- Most of the Tutsis were in Uganda...
0:15:27 > 0:15:32- ..waiting for their opportunity - to re-enter the country...
0:15:32 > 0:15:34- ..which is what happened in the end.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39- You mentioned it in passing - that you speak French...
0:15:39 > 0:15:42- ..and you also speak - Welsh and English.
0:15:42 > 0:15:45- How many languages do you speak?
0:15:45 > 0:15:50- My Welsh is very poor, - I have to admit...
0:15:50 > 0:15:56- ..but I also speak English and - my French is better than my Welsh.
0:15:56 > 0:15:59- I can get by in other languages.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01- Such as?
0:16:01 > 0:16:04- A little Spanish and a little Greek.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06- I lived in Cyprus for a while.
0:16:06 > 0:16:08- I also learnt Turkish.
0:16:08 > 0:16:11- I was working on the Greek side...
0:16:11 > 0:16:15- ..but I learnt a little Turkish - to familiarize myself.
0:16:15 > 0:16:17- But I've forgotten a lot of it.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21- I speak a little Arabic - and a little Chichewa...
0:16:21 > 0:16:25- ..which is commonly spoken - in the east of Africa.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27- It's similar to Swahili.
0:16:27 > 0:16:31- I know enough to ask for water, - put it that way!
0:16:34 > 0:16:39- You said you lived in Cyprus, which - is another interesting country...
0:16:39 > 0:16:41- ..because of the division.
0:16:41 > 0:16:43- Had Turkey taken over the north?
0:16:44 > 0:16:48- No. I was there before that. - I lived there from 1967 to 1971.
0:16:48 > 0:16:50- Everything changed after that.
0:16:51 > 0:16:55- The Greeks left the north of the - island and the Turks left the south.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58- A population exchange occurred.
0:16:58 > 0:17:02- Few Greeks - live in the north nowadays.
0:17:03 > 0:17:06- Wherever you go, - trouble seems to follow.
0:17:06 > 0:17:10- No trouble ensued in Caernarfon!
0:17:11 > 0:17:13- Caernarfon's safe at the moment!
0:17:13 > 0:17:15- Going back to the fact...
0:17:16 > 0:17:19- ..that the British Council - is celebrating 75 years...
0:17:20 > 0:17:24- ..how significant - has it been over the years?
0:17:24 > 0:17:27- In my opinion, - it's been very significant.
0:17:27 > 0:17:30- It always has been very important.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34- But it's more work - than what it's worth nowadays...
0:17:34 > 0:17:38- ..especially when - it comes to teaching English...
0:17:38 > 0:17:42- ..and English literature.
0:17:42 > 0:17:47- They used to earn - more money years ago...
0:17:47 > 0:17:50- ..and their contracts were better.
0:17:50 > 0:17:55- If you worked for - the British Council up until 1990...
0:17:55 > 0:17:57- ..it was quite prestigious.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01- But as far as I can tell - it's changed quite a bit.
0:18:01 > 0:18:04- Most people - have short-term contracts...
0:18:04 > 0:18:07- ..and there's less money around.
0:18:07 > 0:18:13- I think they've closed - almost every library overseas.
0:18:13 > 0:18:19- Books have - since been replaced by computers.
0:18:19 > 0:18:21- From what I see...
0:18:21 > 0:18:25- ..more young people - are going in and out of it.
0:18:25 > 0:18:30- In the old days, someone - would start at 30 years of age...
0:18:30 > 0:18:33- ..and stay there all his life.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36- You've travelled - a fair bit yourself.
0:18:36 > 0:18:41- Did you go to France - purely to learn the language?
0:18:42 > 0:18:46- I wanted to learn French. That's - why I moved to France for a year.
0:18:46 > 0:18:49- I was at university - during the 1960s...
0:18:49 > 0:18:54- ..and they weren't keen on students - having a year abroad back then.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58- The people who were teaching me...
0:18:58 > 0:19:02- ..couldn't speak French - very well themselves.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05- If I was going to leave - with a French degree...
0:19:06 > 0:19:09- ..I should at least be able - to speak fluent French.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12- It was more difficult in those days.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15- They weren't keen for me - to go to France...
0:19:15 > 0:19:18- ..but I went to Lyon for a year...
0:19:18 > 0:19:21- ..before returning - to finish my degree.
0:19:21 > 0:19:26- When you landed in different - countries and travelled around...
0:19:26 > 0:19:29- ..were things already in place...
0:19:30 > 0:19:33- ..or did you start - with a clean slate?
0:19:34 > 0:19:38- It depends, sometimes - they met you at the airport...
0:19:38 > 0:19:41- ..escorted you to the hotel - and it was hunky dory.
0:19:41 > 0:19:46- It depends which country - you're in and what else is going on.
0:19:46 > 0:19:49- Whenever you meet people - who've travelled...
0:19:49 > 0:19:52- ..you always end up asking them...
0:19:52 > 0:19:56- ..which is their favourite - and least favourite country.
0:19:56 > 0:20:00- I'm happy where I am at the moment. - I love living in Wales.
0:20:00 > 0:20:02- You have to say that.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05- No, I don't have to but it's true.
0:20:05 > 0:20:07- I've lived in many countries.
0:20:07 > 0:20:11- If I had to live in one place, - where would I like to live?
0:20:11 > 0:20:16- Ethiopia is a great country, - especially up in the mountains.
0:20:16 > 0:20:19- Are you fond of Africa in general?
0:20:19 > 0:20:22- Yes, I like Africa, - especially Ethiopia.
0:20:22 > 0:20:27- That's your favourite place, - but where wouldn't you return to?
0:20:28 > 0:20:33- I don't like saying it but - it'd have to be Lagos in Nigeria.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36- It was one of - the worst places I've visited.
0:20:36 > 0:20:41- There are so many people there - and they all want your money.
0:20:41 > 0:20:45- They're always trying to sell you - something or con you in some way.
0:20:46 > 0:20:50- I remember leaving there one time - and a person saying to me...
0:20:50 > 0:20:53- .."If you want to - get through the airport quickly...
0:20:53 > 0:20:55- "..you must bribe people."
0:20:56 > 0:20:59- I told him - I didn't have a clue how to do it.
0:20:59 > 0:21:03- He told me not to worry and to put - 5 or 10 in each of my cases...
0:21:03 > 0:21:06- ..and I wouldn't need - to say a thing.
0:21:06 > 0:21:10- So I got to the airport, the man - opened the case and ushered me on.
0:21:11 > 0:21:12- I had no problems.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16- Have you ever felt in danger?
0:21:17 > 0:21:19- At times, yes.
0:21:19 > 0:21:24- My worst experience in Africa was - being stopped by drunken soldiers.
0:21:24 > 0:21:28- That sometimes happens, - especially when they have guns.
0:21:28 > 0:21:33- I get scared because you - never know what's going to happen.
0:21:33 > 0:21:38- It doesn't happen often but I've - encountered it a couple of times.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40- The uncertainty at a checkpoint?
0:21:40 > 0:21:42- The uncertainty at a checkpoint?- - Yes, that's right.
0:21:42 > 0:21:45- I remember working - in Juba, South Sudan.
0:21:45 > 0:21:51- I was doing some research work - in a small village called Awiri.
0:21:51 > 0:21:56- It was just me and a driver - in a small four-wheel drive.
0:21:56 > 0:22:00- It was two o'clock in the afternoon - and the driver said to me...
0:22:00 > 0:22:02- .."We must be careful...
0:22:02 > 0:22:06- "..because the soldiers - have been drinking all morning...
0:22:06 > 0:22:09- "..and they are drunk, - so leave it to me."
0:22:10 > 0:22:14- The first checkpoint was just - a piece of cord across the road.
0:22:14 > 0:22:17- He said, - "I see the general is here."
0:22:17 > 0:22:20- He jumped out - and had a chat with the general.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23- Since he was - transporting a white man...
0:22:23 > 0:22:28- ..he wanted to show him - that everything was above board.
0:22:28 > 0:22:32- He had all the necessary papers - and off we went.
0:22:32 > 0:22:36- When we came to the cord, there was - a man holding a gun in one hand...
0:22:37 > 0:22:41- ..and a cigarette in the other.
0:22:41 > 0:22:45- The driver put his foot down, - swerved and drove past him.
0:22:45 > 0:22:50- I said to him, - "Why didn't you do that last time?
0:22:51 > 0:22:53- "Why did you go past this one?"
0:22:53 > 0:22:55- "The last ones had guns," he said.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58- "But this one had a gun also," - I replied.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01- "Ah, yes, - but he had no bullets in it."
0:23:03 > 0:23:05- He'd clocked the AK-47...
0:23:06 > 0:23:08- ..without the magazine attached.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13- But that's what really frightens me.
0:23:13 > 0:23:15- Drunken soldiers.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19- That's the most dangerous thing - in Africa.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21- Thank you for joining me.
0:23:22 > 0:23:23- Thank you.
0:23:23 > 0:23:28- If you've a story to tell, - then why not get in touch?
0:23:28 > 0:23:32- There's a platform - for your stories here on S4C.
0:23:32 > 0:23:35- Until next time, - from me, John Hardy, goodbye.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56- S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.
0:23:56 > 0:23:56- .