0:00:24 > 0:00:31These are the Dragons. Five of Britain's wealthiest and most enterprising business leaders.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34Tonight in this Christmas special, the famous financiers will make
0:00:34 > 0:00:39or break the dreams of some of the UK's most festive entrepreneurs.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46My children's jumpers. Dog jumpers.
0:00:46 > 0:00:48Maybe I could wear one on Christmas Day.
0:00:48 > 0:00:532011, I turned over roughly about a million pounds.
0:00:53 > 0:00:54Ah! He's got me.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58- Can I have a cup of tea, please? - I'm going to make you an offer.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02- ALL CHEER - And later we'll be catching up with some of our Den entrepreneurs
0:01:02 > 0:01:04during their most crucial time of the year.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06It's empty down there. Why are they all up here?
0:01:06 > 0:01:12The Dragons have the credentials, the contacts, the commitment and the cash ready to invest,
0:01:12 > 0:01:16but will they be spreading Christmas cheer for any of our entrepreneurs tonight?
0:01:24 > 0:01:27Welcome to a special Christmas edition of Dragons' Den.
0:01:28 > 0:01:31For most of us it might be the season of goodwill,
0:01:31 > 0:01:34but for many entrepreneurs it's the season to make good money.
0:01:34 > 0:01:38Hopeful business men and women are waiting to face the Dragons,
0:01:38 > 0:01:41desperate to secure a cash injection in order to gear up
0:01:41 > 0:01:44for their most profitable time of year.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48But don't expect talk to be of mince pies, fairy lights and the office party.
0:01:48 > 0:01:50This is business, after all.
0:02:22 > 0:02:27Hello. My name is Melanie. I'm known in the industry as Mrs Christmas.
0:02:27 > 0:02:35My main business is events. Hopefully today, with your £100,000 investment and 20% return,
0:02:35 > 0:02:39you'll see that I'm so much more than just Christmas.
0:02:39 > 0:02:45So... Years ago, we always used to visit the big man in he red suit
0:02:45 > 0:02:51and occasionally we'd get a cuddly toy or perhaps a photograph as well.
0:02:51 > 0:02:55So what I decided to do is think, "Right, what can I do that can stand out from the rest?"
0:02:55 > 0:03:01So then I pioneered Wish For Ticket, which is an online ticketing solution.
0:03:01 > 0:03:04Rather than waiting in a queue for two hours to see Father Christmas,
0:03:04 > 0:03:07people could book online at their leisure.
0:03:07 > 0:03:12So then to make the experience more exciting and bigger, I created Rocket the Reindeer,
0:03:12 > 0:03:16which is a 12-minute animated 3D film.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19Suddenly the footfall was increasing enormously.
0:03:19 > 0:03:22And that's when I created some costume characters
0:03:22 > 0:03:25called Rocket and Cheeky that are based on the film.
0:03:32 > 0:03:34And once you've seen the film,
0:03:34 > 0:03:39you come out and there's a whole merchandise there of DVDs and stuff, all sorts of different things.
0:03:39 > 0:03:48But not only that, in 2010 I turned over roughly about a million pounds and my profit was £300,000.
0:03:48 > 0:03:53So thank you for listening. Would anyone like a hug before we carry on with questions?
0:03:53 > 0:03:56(LAUGHS)
0:03:56 > 0:04:02Santa Claus, sparkly grotto and cuddly characters.
0:04:02 > 0:04:03Duncan needs a hug.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07- I'm OK, thank you.- You need a hug. I can tell you need a hug.
0:04:07 > 0:04:08- High five. - (LAUGHS)
0:04:08 > 0:04:13Surrey-based Melanie Hurley has certainly thrown all the festive trimmings at her pitch.
0:04:13 > 0:04:19She's hoping the Dragons will invest £100,000 in her Christmas-experience company
0:04:19 > 0:04:22in return for a 20% stake.
0:04:22 > 0:04:28Having bid farewell to Cheeky and Rocket, Hilary Devey is ready to get down to business.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33- Hi.- Hello.- What was the name of the event company?
0:04:33 > 0:04:36- Melbry Events. - Melbry Events.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38- And that's the only company you've got?- No.
0:04:38 > 0:04:42We have two other companies. Wish For Ticket Limited and Rocket The Reindeer Limited.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44OK. And how long have you been trading?
0:04:44 > 0:04:47- 15 years. - Have you?- Yes.
0:04:47 > 0:04:52Well done. Right, this business is very, very seasonal.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54- It is. - So who do you work with?
0:04:54 > 0:04:58I work with the big boys. I work with Selfridges. I've done that for six years in London.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01The Manchester Trafford Centre, Westfield.
0:05:01 > 0:05:07I've pioneered the technology that you see at the Christmas grottos and experiences today in the UK.
0:05:07 > 0:05:10- Tell me about you. - I've always done events.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13I've always been a leader, never ever a follower.
0:05:13 > 0:05:16- I'm very creative. - Tell me how?
0:05:16 > 0:05:19Right, I was asked to put in a Christmas event three years ago
0:05:19 > 0:05:25and I had to try and increase the footfall into the experience at Christmas.
0:05:25 > 0:05:28And the figures were 9,000, that's what I had to inherit.
0:05:28 > 0:05:34In year two when I took it over, we increased that to 27,000 people that came through.
0:05:34 > 0:05:36Last year was 47,000.
0:05:36 > 0:05:40Right. And this revenue, the one million revenue
0:05:40 > 0:05:46- in the previous 12 months' turnover with the 300,000K profit.- Yeah.
0:05:46 > 0:05:49- Is that net or gross profit? - That's gross profit.- Gross profit.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53The business is making money, the business is making good money.
0:05:56 > 0:06:00Sure-footed responses from the experienced entrepreneur.
0:06:00 > 0:06:07But how will she fare under the scrutiny of Deborah Meaden?
0:06:07 > 0:06:09- Can we just explore those numbers a bit?- Yes.
0:06:09 > 0:06:14- So you're got GP of £300,000 in 2010?- Yes.
0:06:14 > 0:06:17So what does that produce in terms of net profit?
0:06:17 > 0:06:20At the moment there isn't too much left in the pot for profit,
0:06:20 > 0:06:25because I've reinvested everything I've got. I've bought costume characters and my films.
0:06:25 > 0:06:32So I'm in a position now where I've got assets and I'm almost asset rich but cash poor.
0:06:32 > 0:06:34Let's talk about your balance sheet - what does that look like?
0:06:34 > 0:06:43So 2011 is looking like the million turnover. My gross profit was £500,000.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45- Yeah, that's profit and loss though.- Yes.
0:06:45 > 0:06:52So you talked about assets. I'm looking at the balance sheet. What are your fixed assets?
0:06:52 > 0:06:54About £200,000.
0:06:54 > 0:06:58OK. And what's the number at the bottom? Your net assets for the company?
0:06:58 > 0:07:01At the moment it's £40,000.
0:07:01 > 0:07:04- £40,000?- That's what my profit will be for 2012.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08- Not profit.- That's net. - No, you're talking profit.
0:07:08 > 0:07:12- OK.- So balance sheet, what's your net worth?
0:07:12 > 0:07:15£200,000.
0:07:15 > 0:07:17That's my assets.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20That's different.
0:07:20 > 0:07:25- Melanie, I can see Deborah's frustration here cos... - Try another route.
0:07:25 > 0:07:29I'll try another slightly different tack, but it's the same question.
0:07:29 > 0:07:33- Right.- In total, do you have any stock?- Yes.
0:07:33 > 0:07:38- What's the value of that stock? - £50,000.- At cost price?- Yes.
0:07:38 > 0:07:42That's DVDs and some of this merchandise.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46- So if on the right-hand side of a piece of paper you've written £50,000.- Yes.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50On the left-hand side of the paper, do you owe anybody any money at the moment?
0:07:50 > 0:07:53About £20,000.
0:07:53 > 0:07:57- And does anybody owe you any money? - About £57,000.
0:07:57 > 0:08:02Now if we take the difference between £57,00 and £20,000, we get what?
0:08:02 > 0:08:06- Oh,... sorry. - £37,000.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08- I'm one step ahead. - That's all right.
0:08:08 > 0:08:11- So totalling up, £37,000 goes on to the other sheet.- OK.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15- Where the £50,000 was. - OK. £77,000.- £87,000.- £87,000.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18- Numbers are not your game, are they? - Not my game.- No.
0:08:18 > 0:08:23- Do you have any cash in your bank at the moment? - Erm... about £20,000, I think.
0:08:23 > 0:08:29- OK. Do you have any loans?- About £45,000 to finance the second film.
0:08:29 > 0:08:36- OK. So in general, I've come out with a net asset value of your company, £62,000.- Right. OK.
0:08:36 > 0:08:42- Peter, can I just check one thing. You said you had £200,000 worth of assets?- Yes.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46We've got Wish For Ticket in that as well. We haven't discussed that yet.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49- OK. - Give me a few seconds.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53My head is smashed now with numbers!
0:08:53 > 0:08:55I'm going to say to you it is smashed.
0:08:57 > 0:09:02Confusion reigns and much of Melanie's earlier good work is undone.
0:09:02 > 0:09:08Can retail expert Theo Paphitis help bring the likeable businesswoman's pitch back on track?
0:09:11 > 0:09:15I've been sitting here listening to everybody asking you questions
0:09:15 > 0:09:17thinking the penny's going to drop any minute.
0:09:17 > 0:09:21- OK.- And you're great and it's very visual
0:09:21 > 0:09:26and you're a really enthusiastic, strong person, that we love to see here.
0:09:26 > 0:09:28If I had my sheets here and I could tell you,
0:09:28 > 0:09:33I don't remember numbers. I honestly don't remember numbers.
0:09:33 > 0:09:35Melanie... (SIGHS)
0:09:35 > 0:09:38- I'll make you loads of money! - Melanie!- (LAUGHS)- Loads!
0:09:38 > 0:09:42- If you're making loads of money, what are you doing here? - I'm not yet.
0:09:42 > 0:09:47I have a creative head and it just needs somebody like you to grab hold of me
0:09:47 > 0:09:52- and say, "You know what, I'll do your finances, you go and get the money."- Melanie!
0:09:52 > 0:09:57- I can't understand your business, never mind invest in you.- Right. OK, let's do this.
0:09:57 > 0:10:01You've got Melbry Events, which is a ground operation,
0:10:01 > 0:10:05so I have hundreds of costumes, staffing, the best in the country,
0:10:05 > 0:10:10and what I did is created Wish For Ticket as an add-on and then I made a film.
0:10:10 > 0:10:16I came up with Rocket the Reindeer. I wanted a 3D experience that no-one else had done.
0:10:16 > 0:10:21- Can I have a look at the films? - Yes. They're here.
0:10:22 > 0:10:29- And how many did you sell? - Last year it was seen by about 600,000 people across the county.
0:10:29 > 0:10:31- So, Melanie, stop there. - That was the film.
0:10:31 > 0:10:36- No, no. No, no. Hilary asked you a question and you came out with a complete different answer.- Did I?
0:10:36 > 0:10:42Yeah. She said how many did you sell and you said last year it was seen by 600,000 people.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45- Right. - How many did you sell?
0:10:45 > 0:10:48A couple of hundred last year because it came out a week before Christmas.
0:10:48 > 0:10:52Doesn't matter. You sold 200?
0:10:52 > 0:10:55- We just teased - - You sold 200 at what price?
0:10:55 > 0:10:57- 200?! - At six pounds.
0:10:57 > 0:11:01- What did it cost you to make the film?- £70-80,000.
0:11:01 > 0:11:05Right. So you spent £80,000 making a film, then you sold £1,200 worth of DVDs?
0:11:05 > 0:11:07But I sold the licence as well.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10- Who to?- Shopping centres. - How much for?
0:11:10 > 0:11:19- For £6,000. Six times I sold it. - So £36,000 you sold the licence for and you sold £1,200 worth of DVDs.
0:11:19 > 0:11:21- It cost you £80,000 to make the film?- Yes.
0:11:21 > 0:11:26And you sold the film for £37,000, making a loss of £42,500.
0:11:27 > 0:11:30It's a very, very simple business rule.
0:11:30 > 0:11:34You're not understanding the concept of business.
0:11:34 > 0:11:37There's a huge licensing opportunity for this product.
0:11:37 > 0:11:41I wish you a very, very merry Christmas, Melanie,
0:11:41 > 0:11:44but I am... out.
0:11:46 > 0:11:52Numbers once again prove Melanie's downfall and she loses her first Dragon.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56And Peter Jones is not looking impressed either.
0:11:56 > 0:12:03It's great to be creative, but you've invested money in these other areas and they haven't paid off.
0:12:03 > 0:12:10- No. I'm so sorry, no.- Why no? - Because of the gate figures.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14No, gate's irrelevant, because they'd still do the gate without watching that movie.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17Peter, I've now got these assets and they're paid for.
0:12:17 > 0:12:22They're not assets, they're ideas to generate additional income and you've just proved
0:12:22 > 0:12:28that by introducing them at the cost that you have that they don't generate any income.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32I've now got people from abroad wanting to work with us.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35I can clearly see you've had a business for 15 years,
0:12:35 > 0:12:40it's amazing what you could have done if actually you had aligned yourself
0:12:40 > 0:12:44- with people that could help you run the business. - And that's why I'm here, Peter.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46You've done well to stay alive, frankly.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49You clearly are very entrepreneurial,
0:12:49 > 0:12:53you've got a real passion for events and you clearly are very good at it,
0:12:53 > 0:12:57but I think a reality check needs to happen.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00I'm going to say I'm out.
0:13:00 > 0:13:05Right, there's other people that have got characters, other people have got booking engines,
0:13:05 > 0:13:07and other people do events.
0:13:07 > 0:13:13So you've out all these three together. But while doing all of that, what is absolutely clear
0:13:13 > 0:13:18is you make little or no money.
0:13:18 > 0:13:24You're a million miles away from where you think you are.
0:13:24 > 0:13:28That doesn't mean you can't get there.
0:13:28 > 0:13:33You need to stop, reconsider and have a new battle plan.
0:13:33 > 0:13:40So for that reason I'm going to wish you luck and please take the advice, but I'm out.
0:13:40 > 0:13:46It's profit, not passion, these Dragons are after as two more investors walk away from the deal.
0:13:46 > 0:13:53Is Deborah Meaden willing to offer the financial lifeline Melanie badly needs?
0:13:53 > 0:13:57Melanie, the trouble is I have no idea
0:13:57 > 0:14:03- whether you have a got a fantastic business or business that's about to fall over.- OK.
0:14:03 > 0:14:08- It's a fantastic business. - (LAUGHS) I've got no choice, I can't invest.
0:14:08 > 0:14:13- No, and I wouldn't invest. (ALL LAUGH)- Bless you!
0:14:13 > 0:14:17It's so frustrating, because you will get your investment back.
0:14:17 > 0:14:23- I just feel like if I ask you a question, I'm not going to be able to believe the answer.- OK.
0:14:23 > 0:14:25So I'm out.
0:14:25 > 0:14:33Melanie, I really like you, I like your enthusiasm and I like your passion.
0:14:33 > 0:14:37- You don't know your numbers, but that's not a crime. - Yeah. It's not my strength.
0:14:37 > 0:14:45My advice would be before you go off at tangents spending more money,
0:14:45 > 0:14:47write a three-year business plan.
0:14:47 > 0:14:57- Reluctantly, I won't be investing in you today, so I'm out.- OK. OK, Thank you. Bye-bye.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59These Dragons may be high on Christmas spirit,
0:14:59 > 0:15:04but that doesn't mean entrepreneurs will be getting an easier time in the Den today.
0:15:04 > 0:15:06Melanie leaves with nothing.
0:15:08 > 0:15:12That's probably the investment of the year that we all missed.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16- We'll never know.- I know what she should put on her Santa list.- What?
0:15:16 > 0:15:19- An accountant. - (BOTH) Or a calculator.
0:15:26 > 0:15:32Where would we be at this time of year without our longstanding yuletide traditions?
0:15:32 > 0:15:38Frank Hersey and his mum Babs hope to capitalise on one such custom with their festive jumper designs.
0:15:38 > 0:15:43Four years ago I had to make him a jumper because we couldn't find one anywhere.
0:15:43 > 0:15:49- SQUEAKING - Now we're looking for your help in our business Woolly Babs.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52SQUEAKING
0:15:52 > 0:15:54An impressive, if noisy, range.
0:15:54 > 0:15:56Children's jumpers. SQUEAKING
0:15:56 > 0:15:59T-shirts. Jumper dresses.
0:15:59 > 0:16:01SQUEAKING Dog jumpers.
0:16:01 > 0:16:06But for one Dragon, Frank and Babs' novelty knitwear was a step too far.
0:16:06 > 0:16:07SQUEAKING
0:16:07 > 0:16:12- Maybe I could wear one on Christmas Day.- I'd love to see you wear one.
0:16:12 > 0:16:18But I don't think I would. And I think if anybody else did who came to visit me...
0:16:18 > 0:16:21(LAUGHTER) We do have the Bah Humbug one for you.
0:16:21 > 0:16:25Peter Jones did try to root out their money-making potential.
0:16:25 > 0:16:28What's your forecast for this year?
0:16:28 > 0:16:31A turnover of £70,000 this year.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34So what will be your Christmas sales in relation to that £70,000?
0:16:34 > 0:16:38- Around about £55,000 out of the £70,000.- Wow!
0:16:38 > 0:16:41- Are you making a profit on the ones that you're selling?- Yes.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45You probably made that profit before deducting the rent on the office,
0:16:45 > 0:16:48somebody's salary, VAT on the sale of the jumpers.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51So if you scale it, you see where your profit's going?
0:16:51 > 0:16:52Down the plughole.
0:16:53 > 0:16:59So no investment, but Frank and Babs did at least leave with words of comfort from the Dragons.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01Well, one.
0:17:01 > 0:17:04You're lovely and this is lovely
0:17:04 > 0:17:08- and they just look lovely and I'm desperately trying to... - Be lovely.
0:17:08 > 0:17:14I'm desperately trying, but I honestly can't get that it's scaleable.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16- I'm sorry, I'm out. - SQUEAKING
0:17:18 > 0:17:21It's one of the great paradoxes of modern society -
0:17:21 > 0:17:27the more industrial we become, the more we crave handcrafted homemade goods.
0:17:27 > 0:17:31This is something our next entrepreneur, Allison Whitmarsh from Huddersfield,
0:17:31 > 0:17:32has taken advantage of.
0:17:44 > 0:17:46Ohh! Lovely!
0:17:58 > 0:18:02Hello. My name's Allison and I'm here today to ask
0:18:02 > 0:18:10for a £50,000 investment for 10% equity in my company ProperMaid and Ladies Who Bake.
0:18:10 > 0:18:13My vision at the very beginning was to create an army of ladies
0:18:13 > 0:18:19baking cakes with the same passion for home baking as I do myself.
0:18:19 > 0:18:21But I knew passion alone wouldn't be enough
0:18:21 > 0:18:26to get a slice of the £600 million home baking market as it stands today.
0:18:26 > 0:18:33So what we've created is a range of traditional cakes alongside our unique flavours.
0:18:33 > 0:18:37So I'd just like to give you an introduction to four of the cakes.
0:18:37 > 0:18:40The first one is the Victoria vanilla.
0:18:40 > 0:18:46This to me represents everything good about my home baking.
0:18:46 > 0:18:51The second is our liquorice cake and this won a Gold Star at the Great Taste Awards last year.
0:18:51 > 0:18:55The next one is dandelion and burdock cake.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58The final one is a Christmas dinner cake
0:18:58 > 0:19:02which has all the elements of Christmas in minus the turkey and the gravy.
0:19:02 > 0:19:09- So in this one you've got sprouts, carrots, parsnips, cranberries, chestnuts, oranges.- What?!
0:19:09 > 0:19:13And it's all mixed together with some Christmas spices.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15And believe me, it tastes delicious.
0:19:15 > 0:19:17Thank you.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24Never before has the Den seen such a mouth-watering display.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28- So we've got a bit of each one? - You've got each one I just talked about. Lovely!
0:19:28 > 0:19:31But is Allison's Whitmarsh's business as tempting?
0:19:31 > 0:19:34- Which is the Christmas one? - That one there.
0:19:34 > 0:19:36Can I have a cup of tea, please?
0:19:36 > 0:19:41She's hoping the Dragons will see potential in her Huddersfield-based home-baked cake range
0:19:41 > 0:19:45and take a 10% stake in exchange for £50,000.
0:19:45 > 0:19:49Hilary Devey looks intrigued.
0:19:49 > 0:19:51- Allison. - Hello.
0:19:51 > 0:19:52Hi. I'm Hilary.
0:19:52 > 0:19:57First of all, go through your own background and how you had the vision.
0:19:57 > 0:20:01I've spent my whole working life in food manufacturing.
0:20:01 > 0:20:08I started off developing recipe dishes for well-known retail brands and then I moved into manufacturing.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12And I did that until I had children and then I found it very difficult
0:20:12 > 0:20:18to manage a senior production manager role, so I packed it all in and became a dinner lady.
0:20:18 > 0:20:23So then after being a dinner lady, I started in my home kitchen just baking.
0:20:23 > 0:20:29I did my first farmers' market, sold out completely and then it's just exploded.
0:20:29 > 0:20:35We've doubled our turnover year on year and this year we're on track to hit a quarter of a million pounds
0:20:35 > 0:20:38with a net profit of £36,000.
0:20:38 > 0:20:42And... I forgot what I was saying then.
0:20:42 > 0:20:48- And, you know...- You're demonstrating your passion?- Yes. Sorry.
0:20:48 > 0:20:52Whether it's the cake or not, Allison is clearly endearing herself to the Dragons.
0:20:52 > 0:20:57Duncan Bannatyne wants to drill down into the business itself.
0:20:57 > 0:21:03- You're saying it's going to make £36,000 net profit this year?- Yep.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05So who is your biggest customer?
0:21:05 > 0:21:11My biggest customer is a corporate caterer and they supply all the museums in Leeds.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13How much is going to come from that customer?
0:21:13 > 0:21:17They spend on average about £800 a week.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19- £40,000 a year? - Yeah.
0:21:19 > 0:21:24- And how many people do you employ? - 12 people. So 12 ladies and one token man.
0:21:24 > 0:21:26LAUGHTER
0:21:26 > 0:21:28- Grrr! - Very good.
0:21:28 > 0:21:32How do you physically get the cakes delivered from your unit?
0:21:32 > 0:21:40- I have a delivery man.- So if someone 100 miles away wanted some cakes? - Then I do use a distribution company.
0:21:40 > 0:21:45We're at the stage now where a lot of our new customers are further afield.
0:21:45 > 0:21:49We've just picked up a contract to supply all the music festivals,
0:21:49 > 0:21:53so that one will be a national distribution.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55Allison, hi.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58That contract, who is it, how big is it?
0:21:58 > 0:22:04It's a company called Eatopia and they do all the backstage catering for all the music festivals.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06What kind of quantity do you think?
0:22:06 > 0:22:11Depending on the festival, it could be anything from 3,000 units up to 40,000 units.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13What's that worth to you in value terms?
0:22:13 > 0:22:16On that contract alone about £40,000.
0:22:16 > 0:22:20What do you think is going to happen in the future? What's the next point?
0:22:20 > 0:22:25I think if we worked more smartly, we could take possibly a million pounds on where we are now.
0:22:25 > 0:22:29But I do believe that what we have created could be extended all over the UK.
0:22:32 > 0:22:34Expansion plans and lucrative new contracts,
0:22:34 > 0:22:39it's not just the products that are appealing to the multi-millionaires.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43Can Peter Jones find a reason to invest?
0:22:45 > 0:22:47- I think you've done amazingly well. - Thank you.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50As everybody said, the cakes are fantastic.
0:22:50 > 0:22:55I am sitting here, though, thinking as you start to really grow this business,
0:22:55 > 0:22:59how do you retain the home-cooking style?
0:22:59 > 0:23:04There's two ways we could go, we could either build a massive factory so we could increase the output,
0:23:04 > 0:23:10- but I think we'd lose everything about the brand, so...- I agree.
0:23:10 > 0:23:15It is difficult. So do I do it that scale or can I do what we've created in Huddersfield
0:23:15 > 0:23:19and replicate it somewhere else in Scotland or in the south?
0:23:19 > 0:23:24And then logistically we can still keep all the elements of the brand like the local sourcing.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28- That's a huge duplication, isn't it? - Yes.
0:23:28 > 0:23:35You need to really work through the economies of scale to get those costs down.
0:23:35 > 0:23:41I can't see at the moment a way that you could make this a really big business.
0:23:41 > 0:23:44When I say big, I mean turning over several million
0:23:44 > 0:23:48and making a couple of hundred thousand pounds a year,
0:23:48 > 0:23:52which is what you'll need to do as you grow if I've invested £50,000.
0:23:52 > 0:23:59So I can't find a way to invest in you because I think this is a localised, unscaleable business.
0:23:59 > 0:24:05So, Allison, I'm not going to invest today. I'm going to say that I'm out.
0:24:05 > 0:24:10A worrying analysis of her expansion plans, it's a first setback for Allison.
0:24:10 > 0:24:16And Duncan Bannatyne looks to have made up his mind too.
0:24:16 > 0:24:24Unfortunately,... this business has been driven by a fantastic, energetic lady called Allison,
0:24:27 > 0:24:32who loves what she does, loves the people who work for her and loves her business.
0:24:32 > 0:24:36You take Allison out and you have a problem - how do you fill that space?
0:24:36 > 0:24:39I do think there's other people like me out there, I really do.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42And I'd like to at least open another one.
0:24:42 > 0:24:45It's just employing the right people.
0:24:45 > 0:24:50- I'm not there a lot at the unit now and I still think I don't need to be there any more.- Where are you?
0:24:50 > 0:24:52I'm selling, I'm on the road a lot.
0:24:52 > 0:24:56So you're still there in the business, on the road,
0:24:56 > 0:25:00but going back and making sure your cakes are baked the right way.
0:25:00 > 0:25:05Unfortunately, I think this business relies a little too much on you
0:25:05 > 0:25:06and I think it's gonna be hard to expand it.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09So for that reason only, I'm going to have to tell you where I am.
0:25:09 > 0:25:14- Allison, I wish you the best of luck but I'm out.- Thank you.
0:25:16 > 0:25:18Allison.
0:25:18 > 0:25:27How much do you think it costs to send a cake from Huddersfield to, let's say London, to keep it simple?
0:25:27 > 0:25:34Well, I've been quoted anything from £50 a pallet to about £80 a pallet.
0:25:34 > 0:25:39OK. So what's the shelf life of a ProperMaid cake?
0:25:39 > 0:25:43- Seven days. But... - In a refrigerator?
0:25:43 > 0:25:46Some need refrigerating, some don't.
0:25:46 > 0:25:49If it's got the cream cheese on, then you would have to refrigerate it.
0:25:49 > 0:25:52But we've also got customers now that want to take it frozen as well.
0:25:52 > 0:25:58I've just been in discussion with NAAFI, who are very interested in taking the Christmas dinner cake.
0:25:58 > 0:26:02I'm not surprised. I think they should. I would.
0:26:02 > 0:26:06- They're quite keen to get it out to Afghanistan over the Christmas period.- It's delicious.
0:26:06 > 0:26:10I don't normally eat cake. That's lovely.
0:26:10 > 0:26:13And they would take it as a frozen product.
0:26:13 > 0:26:17Right. I couldn't...
0:26:17 > 0:26:22disagree more with Peter and Duncan.
0:26:22 > 0:26:24I actually think you can scale it.
0:26:24 > 0:26:29I think you can certainly get the turnover that Peter mentioned, several million.
0:26:29 > 0:26:36I think the dilemma is not whether you can do it or not,
0:26:36 > 0:26:40the dilemma is, is that what you want?
0:26:40 > 0:26:41Yes, it definitely is.
0:26:41 > 0:26:48I went in this really... to build a national brand.
0:26:48 > 0:26:54And I still believe we can do it, but obviously with your help.
0:26:58 > 0:27:01An earnest plea from a passionate entrepreneur,
0:27:01 > 0:27:03but as yet no offers of cash.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06However, there are still three Dragons left in.
0:27:09 > 0:27:11You're very impressive, Allison.
0:27:11 > 0:27:13I think you have got it pretty buttoned down.
0:27:13 > 0:27:15If you lengthen its shelf life,
0:27:15 > 0:27:19- you'll become the same as everybody else.- The same as everybody else.
0:27:19 > 0:27:23The point is that you're not, that's the whole thing about this business.
0:27:23 > 0:27:24And you're bang on with that.
0:27:24 > 0:27:29People want homemade, they don't want the bother of homemade.
0:27:29 > 0:27:34And everything nowadays, however lovely it looks, it looks synthetic.
0:27:34 > 0:27:40So I get there is a big market in that. There are hurdles obviously ahead of you.
0:27:40 > 0:27:50And I think this not an easy thing to scale, but actually I think you would be a good person to scale it.
0:27:50 > 0:27:55- So I am going to make you an offer. - Thank you.
0:27:56 > 0:27:58£50,000...
0:28:03 > 0:28:06..and I want 25% of the business.
0:28:06 > 0:28:07Right.
0:28:11 > 0:28:15At last, an offer of investment but for two and a half times the equity
0:28:15 > 0:28:17Allison initially wanted to give away.
0:28:18 > 0:28:23Now will logistics expert Hilary Devey choose to compete?
0:28:25 > 0:28:32My worry is that the more premises you take on, the lower the margin becomes.
0:28:32 > 0:28:38And I think you need to go into high-volume places.
0:28:38 > 0:28:42But I think that that's the type of customer that is now approaching me.
0:28:42 > 0:28:46So I need the scale. I'm targeting the bigger players now.
0:28:46 > 0:28:51- Because unless you can distribute in volume, you'll never ever make a margin.- No.
0:28:51 > 0:28:54For me, the only way you could see it happening
0:28:54 > 0:29:00is to have perhaps another two or three manufacturing bases.
0:29:00 > 0:29:04And, yeah, I could do all that for you. I could help you.
0:29:10 > 0:29:17Look, I've... I've thought about it and...
0:29:17 > 0:29:23I just don't know if there's enough in it for me... to put the time into it.
0:29:23 > 0:29:29So, reluctantly, I'm going to say I'm out.
0:29:29 > 0:29:33- But, I've got to say, you are marvellous.- Thank you.
0:29:33 > 0:29:35So that just leaves me.
0:29:35 > 0:29:41Deborah's already made you an offer of £50,000 for 25% of the business.
0:29:43 > 0:29:46How do you feel about such a large percentage?
0:29:46 > 0:29:53If you'd asked me that a few months ago, I... I would have been reluctant. But...
0:29:53 > 0:29:58I'm in this, really,... My get-out plan was always I'd sell the business at 50.
0:29:58 > 0:30:02- How many years have you got? - Five.- Five years?- I'm 45 now.
0:30:02 > 0:30:07I do believe with your help then I could still have that dream.
0:30:07 > 0:30:13Look, if that's your dream of getting this business exited in five years' time and growing it,
0:30:13 > 0:30:17you're going to need more than £50,000.
0:30:19 > 0:30:22So I'm thinking on my feet.
0:30:22 > 0:30:23Erm...
0:30:27 > 0:30:30I would suggest another way to cook the cake...
0:30:34 > 0:30:37..that you get £100,000,
0:30:37 > 0:30:39and I would put £50,000 in.
0:30:39 > 0:30:44But, for me to make it worth my while, I'd want to own at least 20%.
0:30:47 > 0:30:51- Right.- Would you be prepared to go down to 20% if I got 20%?
0:30:52 > 0:30:58Um...I worry that the second lump of cash is not identified.
0:30:58 > 0:31:03- But, in principle, yes. - So I'll be giving away 40%?
0:31:03 > 0:31:0740%, which will allow you to get to your goal a lot quicker.
0:31:07 > 0:31:08Yeah.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14Well, I would feel, at the minute,
0:31:14 > 0:31:17uncomfortable about giving away 40% of my company.
0:31:17 > 0:31:20- Right.- So, at the minute, then...
0:31:22 > 0:31:25I think at that stage I'm probably going to have to allow you to
0:31:25 > 0:31:27negotiate with Deborah.
0:31:27 > 0:31:28Right.
0:31:28 > 0:31:32- I'm out.- Are you still interested? - Oh, absolutely.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35So I'm still all right, then!
0:31:36 > 0:31:39- I'd love to take you up on your offer, Deborah.- Excellent.- Well done.
0:31:39 > 0:31:43- Thank you.- Well done. Well done.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45Allison has done it.
0:31:45 > 0:31:48She may have chosen half the cash that was on offer in the Den
0:31:48 > 0:31:51but she retains a much larger slice of her company
0:31:51 > 0:31:54and still walks away with a valuable investor on board.
0:32:02 > 0:32:04Other entrepreneurs who tried
0:32:04 > 0:32:07and failed in the Den included Craig Head from Derby,
0:32:07 > 0:32:09aka Secret Santa.
0:32:09 > 0:32:13He wanted the Dragons' help with his bid for the Christmas number one.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16# Pull my cracker this Christmas
0:32:16 > 0:32:19# And make my dreams come true
0:32:20 > 0:32:24# Put me on your wish list
0:32:24 > 0:32:27# A gift from me to you... #
0:32:29 > 0:32:32Duncan Bannatyne, who once invested in a record company,
0:32:32 > 0:32:34offered his own critique.
0:32:34 > 0:32:36When you came down and you put the music on,
0:32:36 > 0:32:38my foot started to move with the beat.
0:32:38 > 0:32:43And then...you started to sing. And my foot stopped.
0:32:43 > 0:32:45No deal at that end of the Den, then,
0:32:45 > 0:32:48and, at the other, Peter Jones had his own concerns.
0:32:48 > 0:32:50So, it's a song.
0:32:50 > 0:32:51I got that much.
0:32:51 > 0:32:55- But compare yourself to the likes of Bing Crosby...- Legend.
0:32:55 > 0:33:00- ..Cliff Richard...- Legend. - ..and Noddy Holder.- Legend.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04- And now we've got Craig Head. - It doesn't have to be me.
0:33:04 > 0:33:06- I'm giving you the song.- Ah, OK.
0:33:07 > 0:33:11- Who would you say is perfect for your song?- Yourself.
0:33:11 > 0:33:13I quite like you.
0:33:13 > 0:33:17Flattery can be a good tactic in the Den but this time it wasn't enough
0:33:17 > 0:33:21to stop Hilary Devey putting an end to Craig's investment dreams.
0:33:21 > 0:33:23As much as I think you're lovely, Santa,
0:33:23 > 0:33:26you won't make any money out of it.
0:33:26 > 0:33:29Military Wives last year took almost £200,000.
0:33:29 > 0:33:35But they had fabulous voices, the music, the lyrics was fabulous.
0:33:35 > 0:33:36This isn't.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39How about forgetting any commercialism
0:33:39 > 0:33:41and it all goes to charity?
0:33:41 > 0:33:43It's not investible. I'm out.
0:33:43 > 0:33:46- Good luck to you.- Thanks very much.
0:33:46 > 0:33:48Bye, Craig.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51Kim and Jack Walmsley brought a more fruity Christmas cheer
0:33:51 > 0:33:55into the Den with their plan to rebrand a 400-year-old drink.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58Punch is not available in any shops.
0:33:58 > 0:34:02My great-grandma used to make it, and what we've done is used
0:34:02 > 0:34:05her recipes and we now want to bring them to market.
0:34:05 > 0:34:11The hospitable Liverpudlians started well by hosting their own party for the investors.
0:34:11 > 0:34:13- That's a gin punch. - That's Mother's Ruin.
0:34:13 > 0:34:18- We have a rum punch.- Called Poison? - Yeah.- Green one is Sexy Twist.
0:34:18 > 0:34:23It's a brandy punch with a twist, the twist being that it's green.
0:34:23 > 0:34:26We did get an insight into what Christmas was like at the Joneses'.
0:34:26 > 0:34:28What is difficult about making a punch?
0:34:28 > 0:34:30You put spirits in it, some lemonade in it,
0:34:30 > 0:34:32some orange juice in it or some cranberry juice in it.
0:34:32 > 0:34:34It doesn't take you long.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37You can put too much of one thing in and it won't taste nice and...
0:34:37 > 0:34:39But that's the fun of it, isn't it?
0:34:39 > 0:34:43You put a little bit too much in and people are going, "Whoa, that's a bit strong!"
0:34:43 > 0:34:49But ultimately none of the Dragons saw a moneymaking future for the couple's new concept.
0:34:49 > 0:34:52Kim, Jack, it tasted great.
0:34:52 > 0:34:54But you can go on the internet
0:34:54 > 0:34:57and there's just recipe after recipe after recipe.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02And there is a very good reason why no-one else is doing it.
0:35:02 > 0:35:06And that is because there isn't a demand for it. I'm out.
0:35:06 > 0:35:08OK, thank you.
0:35:11 > 0:35:14For the toy industry, success is all about Christmas.
0:35:14 > 0:35:17That accounts for more than a third of all annual sales.
0:35:17 > 0:35:22Next into the Den are David Harvey and Ben Lewis, with a tabletop game.
0:35:22 > 0:35:24They're not looking for a gift from Santa
0:35:24 > 0:35:26but they would like an investment.
0:35:46 > 0:35:49Would one of you like to give us a honk on the starting horn?
0:35:49 > 0:35:53- Thank you, Peter.- Starting horn?- Just give it a good squeeze at my command.
0:35:56 > 0:36:01- Hello. My name's Dave Harvey and this is Ben Lewis.- Hello.
0:36:01 > 0:36:03And we produce Pucket,
0:36:03 > 0:36:06and infectiously fun, frantic wooden game.
0:36:06 > 0:36:10But before we tell you any more we'd like to give you a quick demonstration.
0:36:11 > 0:36:14So if you want to come and have a closer look whilst we're playing.
0:36:14 > 0:36:15Thank you.
0:36:20 > 0:36:22OK. And, horn, please.
0:36:22 > 0:36:24HORN PARPS Yeah!
0:36:25 > 0:36:28So as quickly as I'm trying to fire them through
0:36:28 > 0:36:30he's got to fire them back.
0:36:30 > 0:36:32- It's then a mad rush... - Agh! He's got me.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39- Oh.- Got me.- There you go. - You've played this before.
0:36:39 > 0:36:41- He's good.- I have played a few times, I have to admit.
0:36:41 > 0:36:45- All right, out the way. - Right.
0:36:45 > 0:36:49One finger on the elastic and then just place the puck in front
0:36:49 > 0:36:51of the elastic so that you're kind of catapulting it through.
0:36:51 > 0:36:53- Ready. Klaxon. - HORN PARPS
0:36:56 > 0:36:58Ooh, Theo.
0:36:59 > 0:37:01It come back!
0:37:01 > 0:37:05- The faster you do it, the harder it is for him to get them back.- Ooh.
0:37:05 > 0:37:07You can move them out of your way.
0:37:07 > 0:37:09- You just can't push them through. - Yaaayyy!
0:37:12 > 0:37:15- Well played. I don't like it. - LAUGHTER
0:37:21 > 0:37:25So we're here to offer you 10% of our business
0:37:25 > 0:37:27in exchange for £50,000.
0:37:28 > 0:37:32We've been producing Pucket games via a Fairtrade supplier for just over
0:37:32 > 0:37:36three years and every Christmas to date we've sold out.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40This year we're on target to sell 10,000 to 13,000 games.
0:37:40 > 0:37:43It works well across the ages and is made to last.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46As a result, we're not only selling to the kiddies' toy market
0:37:46 > 0:37:49but also the adult gift market, with stockists including Selfridges,
0:37:49 > 0:37:53the Conran Shop and independent design shops around the UK.
0:37:53 > 0:37:55We'd be happy to take your questions.
0:37:58 > 0:38:01Trying to encourage a bit of traditional Christmas gameplaying
0:38:01 > 0:38:05in the Den are South Londoners Ben Lewis and Dave Harvey.
0:38:05 > 0:38:08Having designed a new pastime for the parlour,
0:38:08 > 0:38:11they're hoping £50,000 can help market it
0:38:11 > 0:38:13to the great British public.
0:38:13 > 0:38:17Duncan Bannatyne is first to scrutinise the opportunity on offer.
0:38:20 > 0:38:21Who invented this game?
0:38:21 > 0:38:25It's actually an old French game but it's not very well known.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28I was a student in France and that's where I first saw it played.
0:38:28 > 0:38:31Right, so you've no IP rights to it, you've no patent rights?
0:38:31 > 0:38:33We've trademarked the name Pucket.
0:38:33 > 0:38:37- In French it's known as table a l'elastique.- OK.
0:38:37 > 0:38:43- Now, what does it cost you to make? - Our landed cost is £15.75.
0:38:43 > 0:38:47- Right, what do you sell it for? - The consumer buys it for around 50.
0:38:48 > 0:38:52- This is a piece of wood with two elastic bands.- Yep.
0:38:52 > 0:38:55- And you're selling it for 50 quid? - That's correct, yes.
0:38:55 > 0:38:58You must be really good salespeople. Eh?
0:38:59 > 0:39:03- So give me the historic numbers to start with.- Sure.
0:39:03 > 0:39:09Three years ago we turned over about £6,000. Net profit was about 70.
0:39:09 > 0:39:12- £70?- Yeah, £70! That was just the first Christmas.- OK.
0:39:12 > 0:39:16- Second year was 29,000. - What happened from 2011 to now?
0:39:16 > 0:39:21- We turned over 113,000. - What was your net profit?
0:39:21 > 0:39:24£8,000. I should point out,
0:39:24 > 0:39:28it should have been more like 21 but some last-minute delays meant
0:39:28 > 0:39:31we had to air-freight, which actually cost us around £13,000.
0:39:31 > 0:39:34If we sell all 13,000 games this year,
0:39:34 > 0:39:37profits can increase to up to 60,000.
0:39:40 > 0:39:45The poised duo have relaxed quickly into Den questioning
0:39:45 > 0:39:47but something seems to be bothering Peter Jones.
0:39:49 > 0:39:53- I have an issue with the actual game itself.- What's your issue?
0:39:53 > 0:39:56I could see me doing it once and it was exciting when I first
0:39:56 > 0:40:00- sat there, cos I thought, well, I want to know how it's played.- Yeah.
0:40:00 > 0:40:04But I got bored very, very quickly. It's not that exciting.
0:40:04 > 0:40:07When we first started Pucket, I actually made a Pucket game
0:40:07 > 0:40:10for my brother for Christmas. We had it in the family.
0:40:10 > 0:40:14We took it on holiday and we were literally crying with laughter.
0:40:14 > 0:40:16I myself broke down in tears
0:40:16 > 0:40:19because we had such amazing fun with this thing.
0:40:19 > 0:40:21I should point out, in terms of people, what you say,
0:40:21 > 0:40:23do people actually enjoy it,
0:40:23 > 0:40:27a large part of how we generate some sales is going to festivals.
0:40:27 > 0:40:29These aren't people we know, they're not...
0:40:29 > 0:40:32And we open at ten, we'll have a tent with maybe a dozen games out,
0:40:32 > 0:40:34we'll close at midnight and people will play all day.
0:40:34 > 0:40:38- They've never come across it before. - And they've all said they've enjoyed it?
0:40:38 > 0:40:42- Yeah, yeah, they've come back throughout the day.- OK. Thank you.
0:40:42 > 0:40:43- THEO:- Guys, um...
0:40:44 > 0:40:47- Pucket.- Pucket.
0:40:47 > 0:40:52I'm going to leave it to everyone's imagination
0:40:52 > 0:40:54how you arrived at the name.
0:40:54 > 0:40:57- Can we tell you? It's because... - Are you going to spoil it?- No.
0:40:57 > 0:41:00It's because they're pucks and you puck it through the whole.
0:41:00 > 0:41:02- This is a puck.- And that really is how we came up with the name.
0:41:02 > 0:41:06- Really?- Yeah.- I believe you. - OK, thank you.
0:41:06 > 0:41:11- You told us kindly that you landed this product at 15.75.- Yeah.
0:41:11 > 0:41:16- What you didn't say is what you sold it for wholesale.- £21.
0:41:16 > 0:41:22And what you didn't say is... where you have these made.
0:41:22 > 0:41:24We have them made in India
0:41:24 > 0:41:27by a Fairtrade group in the north of India.
0:41:27 > 0:41:28What's the lead time?
0:41:28 > 0:41:31It's probably up to a three-month lead time from buying the wood,
0:41:31 > 0:41:34seasoning it, making the games and shipping it.
0:41:34 > 0:41:37- So, from order?- Yeah.- OK.
0:41:37 > 0:41:40Part of why we have it handmade and made so well is because it's not
0:41:40 > 0:41:44just a kind of one-week throwaway present, and we want it to last.
0:41:47 > 0:41:50Demonstrating market appeal and strategic thinking,
0:41:50 > 0:41:53Ben and Dave continue to impress the Dragons.
0:41:53 > 0:41:57Will Deborah Meaden have any cause for concern?
0:41:58 > 0:42:02- Can I... By the way, I quite like it.- Thank you very much.
0:42:02 > 0:42:06For a game product, it's high-end product and I also think
0:42:06 > 0:42:10its packaging is well targeted at the market that you have identified.
0:42:11 > 0:42:14Can I just ask about the seasonality?
0:42:14 > 0:42:16How much of your trade is done at Christmas?
0:42:16 > 0:42:19It seems to be about 70% in the final quarter.
0:42:19 > 0:42:23When have you got to have your stock in country for you to fulfil
0:42:23 > 0:42:27- those Christmas orders?- We'd have them all in by the end of September.
0:42:27 > 0:42:29- So what does that do to your cash flow?- That's exactly...
0:42:29 > 0:42:32- That's why we're here. - That's a big reason why we're here.
0:42:32 > 0:42:34- We're asking for money for stock. - Part of the Fairtrade...
0:42:34 > 0:42:38That you really probably don't need to explain to any Dragon,
0:42:38 > 0:42:42because it's glaringly obvious to me that you're bound to have an issue
0:42:42 > 0:42:45with cash flow, when so many of your sales happen at Christmas.
0:42:45 > 0:42:49- We pay 50% up front...- Can I ask you a question? Why do you make in...
0:42:49 > 0:42:53I understand the Fairtrade bit and I applaud you on the Fairtrade bit,
0:42:53 > 0:42:56but why are you making in India?
0:42:56 > 0:43:00We wanted it to be handmade and beautiful
0:43:00 > 0:43:03and so the only way to do that at a cost that isn't prohibitive
0:43:03 > 0:43:05is to go somewhere where the cost of labour is cheap.
0:43:05 > 0:43:08Have you looked at having it made in the UK?
0:43:08 > 0:43:10It's becoming an awful lot more competitive.
0:43:10 > 0:43:13Our prototypes for the future games where working on, we obviously
0:43:13 > 0:43:16haven't mentioned those yet, but we're having them made in the UK and
0:43:16 > 0:43:19prototyped in the UK, and our first production run will be in the UK.
0:43:24 > 0:43:27There's a calmness in the Den, as the smooth-talking duo seem
0:43:27 > 0:43:30to be addressing all the Dragons' concerns.
0:43:30 > 0:43:32But they've yet to receive an offer.
0:43:32 > 0:43:35Duncan Bannatyne looks ready to have his say.
0:43:38 > 0:43:41This game reminds me in a way of a game that I have in my house,
0:43:41 > 0:43:44I play with the kids, called air hockey.
0:43:44 > 0:43:47- Yeah, air hockey for traditionalists. - Yeah.
0:43:47 > 0:43:50And we play that and it's much more exciting,
0:43:50 > 0:43:54and, you know, thinking about paying £50 for that...
0:43:54 > 0:43:58We've sold out every Christmas and, I mean, 3,000 people aren't wrong.
0:43:58 > 0:44:02Clearly we haven't gone beyond that because we didn't have the games.
0:44:02 > 0:44:06You're a very, very articulate and good salesman, Ben. And you, David.
0:44:06 > 0:44:10It just seems far, far, far too expensive.
0:44:11 > 0:44:15- So for that reason I've got to say I'm sorry but I'm out.- Thank you.
0:44:15 > 0:44:17Thank you very much.
0:44:17 > 0:44:20- Guys, shall I tell you where I am? - Yes, please.
0:44:21 > 0:44:23I can't think of anything more boring
0:44:23 > 0:44:26than sitting down at night playing that game.
0:44:26 > 0:44:29- Could we persuade you to have a go? - No. You couldn't.
0:44:30 > 0:44:33I just didn't like it, it bored me.
0:44:33 > 0:44:36And I suspect I'm not the only person that will find this
0:44:36 > 0:44:38- boring either.- That's surprising.
0:44:38 > 0:44:40It hasn't been our experience but if that's yours...
0:44:40 > 0:44:44Unfortunately, I won't be investing in you today,
0:44:44 > 0:44:46so I've got to say I'm out.
0:44:48 > 0:44:52The friends' bid for £50,000 takes a turn in the wrong direction,
0:44:52 > 0:44:54but not all is lost.
0:44:54 > 0:44:55Three Dragons remain.
0:44:55 > 0:45:00Has Peter Jones seen any moneymaking potential?
0:45:01 > 0:45:04Looking at this as a business, I actually think that what you
0:45:04 > 0:45:07should have done with that game is made it completely multi-use.
0:45:07 > 0:45:08Right.
0:45:08 > 0:45:12I think you should have designed it in such a way where you could
0:45:12 > 0:45:17insert that elastic band, you can play backgammon on it,
0:45:17 > 0:45:19you could play chess on it,
0:45:19 > 0:45:24but I just think that just having one game, you've limited its market
0:45:24 > 0:45:27and I think it's limited in terms of its value.
0:45:27 > 0:45:31What a great idea, Peter. Now I know why you're so rich.
0:45:31 > 0:45:34I've...just learnt something. Fantastic.
0:45:34 > 0:45:36No, I'm being serious.
0:45:36 > 0:45:39So I think that's what I would have done with this,
0:45:39 > 0:45:42but I think that you will clearly sell enough
0:45:42 > 0:45:46to have a living for yourselves, and, for that, it's great.
0:45:46 > 0:45:49I'm not going to invest in you today. I'm out.
0:45:50 > 0:45:54Guys, I actually... I don't agree with Peter on that.
0:45:54 > 0:45:57I think that if you do make it a multipurpose compendium
0:45:57 > 0:46:01you'll just be trying to compete with every other multipurpose compendium you've got.
0:46:01 > 0:46:05I think the only thing you've got is that you're a new game,
0:46:05 > 0:46:08that it looks different, it looks lovely.
0:46:08 > 0:46:10I...I like it.
0:46:12 > 0:46:16The trouble is, your valuation would mean there would have to be
0:46:16 > 0:46:19a much bigger market than I believe there is
0:46:19 > 0:46:22for me to get the type of return on my investment that I would want.
0:46:22 > 0:46:26- So I won't be investing, guys. - Thank you.- I'm out.
0:46:26 > 0:46:28- THEO:- And that just leaves me,
0:46:28 > 0:46:35and...I never found this as boring, erm, as the other Dragons have said.
0:46:35 > 0:46:40And I like competitive games, I like games where there's movement
0:46:40 > 0:46:44as opposed to just, you know, just sitting and watching them.
0:46:44 > 0:46:49And I was sitting here trying to work out what it is that
0:46:49 > 0:46:54I can do to actually help you make this happen.
0:46:58 > 0:47:00Erm...
0:47:02 > 0:47:08So it just leaves me to ask you what your other products are.
0:47:08 > 0:47:12Yeah, they're two other games that, I guess,
0:47:12 > 0:47:15have some similarities in the look.
0:47:15 > 0:47:17One of them is an old French-Canadian game
0:47:17 > 0:47:20and the other one is my own invention,
0:47:20 > 0:47:24that's another dexterity game where you don't take it in turns.
0:47:24 > 0:47:27Games where you don't take it in turns tend to be more exciting.
0:47:30 > 0:47:34- At the moment you're saying £50,000 is purely required for stock.- Yes.
0:47:34 > 0:47:37- Well, that's stocking finance that you need.- Yeah.
0:47:37 > 0:47:41- So, did you go to your bank?- We did.
0:47:41 > 0:47:44In fact, you know, we're still talking to our bank,
0:47:44 > 0:47:47but it looks a little bit touch and go.
0:47:56 > 0:48:01Guys, guys. I can't see that it's going to be massive for me.
0:48:01 > 0:48:02It's certainly not...
0:48:02 > 0:48:05And if I gave you £50,000 for equity
0:48:05 > 0:48:07I would have to take over 50% of the business.
0:48:07 > 0:48:10- It doesn't make sense.- Yeah.
0:48:11 > 0:48:15- You need a loan.- OK. - And that's what it sounds like.
0:48:15 > 0:48:19It's not investible at the moment.
0:48:19 > 0:48:20So I'm afraid I'm out.
0:48:20 > 0:48:22Thank you, Theo.
0:48:25 > 0:48:30It was a close call but ultimately a disappointing end for Ben and Dave.
0:48:30 > 0:48:32They leave with nothing.
0:48:32 > 0:48:35I was wondering whether I'd find a way of just lending them
0:48:35 > 0:48:37the £50,000, let them buy the shares back.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40- The Den isn't a charity, Theo.- No, exactly.- We're here to make money.
0:48:47 > 0:48:49It's the start of the Christmas season.
0:48:49 > 0:48:51A time of celebration,
0:48:51 > 0:48:55where we're reported to spend over £3 billion on festive feasts.
0:48:55 > 0:48:59It was earlier this year that Deborah Meaden provided us
0:48:59 > 0:49:03with our seasonal investment, agreeing to give Allison Whitmarsh
0:49:03 > 0:49:07a £50,000 cash injection into her home-baked cake business.
0:49:07 > 0:49:10Today Deborah is in Huddersfield to check in with her latest
0:49:10 > 0:49:11business partner.
0:49:11 > 0:49:15The deal is completed and this really is our first meeting.
0:49:15 > 0:49:18I think it's really important I actually get to see exactly
0:49:18 > 0:49:20what's going on so today my plan is to have a look around,
0:49:20 > 0:49:22see the cakes actually being made.
0:49:22 > 0:49:24- Oh, hello, hiya! Nice to see you. - How are you?
0:49:24 > 0:49:27And talk about our plans for the future.
0:49:27 > 0:49:28Ooh, it smells lovely in here.
0:49:28 > 0:49:31- We've got liquorice cake coming here as well.- Oh, my goodness.
0:49:31 > 0:49:34- So how's it going? - We are getting really, really busy.
0:49:34 > 0:49:37We're really focusing on the Christmas menu now.
0:49:37 > 0:49:39But I'd like to show you the mince pies.
0:49:39 > 0:49:43You're going to have to get me past the chocolate cake first!
0:49:43 > 0:49:47- These are my f... I love mince pies. - These are the Viennese mince pies.
0:49:47 > 0:49:50One of the things we were blown away in the Den was that fantastic
0:49:50 > 0:49:52Christmas cake you did with the Brussels sprouts.
0:49:52 > 0:49:55Nobody wanted a traditional Christmas cake any more.
0:49:55 > 0:49:57They wanted something that was unusual,
0:49:57 > 0:49:59something they could talk about.
0:49:59 > 0:50:03People were buying it because they just loved the fact that it's just so different.
0:50:03 > 0:50:07- It smells lovely, though. - Oh, well, you do get an aroma of sprouts, but...- Yeah, you do.
0:50:07 > 0:50:10How much of your business takes place at Christmas?
0:50:10 > 0:50:13I'd say probably about 30% more sales at Christmas,
0:50:13 > 0:50:16so we do really try and focus on bringing good-quality
0:50:16 > 0:50:19different cakes out just for the Christmas season.
0:50:21 > 0:50:24So this is the flow wrap machine, which has been the biggest
0:50:24 > 0:50:28investment that we've had so far with the investment money,
0:50:28 > 0:50:32which individually wraps slices of cakes, biscuits, flapjacks,
0:50:32 > 0:50:36and this has just really enabled us to open the food-to-go market.
0:50:36 > 0:50:40- Prior to this we had to do it manually.- This is now replacing that!
0:50:40 > 0:50:43OK. Well, this looks more super-duper.
0:50:43 > 0:50:45Do you actually know how to work it?
0:50:45 > 0:50:48Again, we've just had it delivered so we do know the basics of it...
0:50:48 > 0:50:52- So this big red button here, do we know what that does?- That's stop.
0:50:52 > 0:50:53Oh, right.
0:50:53 > 0:50:56So this is our new biscuit machine. It will really,
0:50:56 > 0:50:58really improve productivity,
0:50:58 > 0:51:01because everything before this was very, very labour-intensive.
0:51:01 > 0:51:05That's like magic. That's cake magic, that is! It's brilliant.
0:51:06 > 0:51:10Having a more efficient factory means Allison can now meet
0:51:10 > 0:51:11new contract demands.
0:51:11 > 0:51:15The next step is to discuss further expansion of the business.
0:51:15 > 0:51:19I guess one of the biggest questions is going to be, what's our business development plan?
0:51:19 > 0:51:21Do we actually open up further depots or do we
0:51:21 > 0:51:24open up central hubs?
0:51:24 > 0:51:27And that really gets led from who are we going to be selling to
0:51:27 > 0:51:29and in what quantities?
0:51:29 > 0:51:33One of the biggest things that has happened since the Den is having a frozen product.
0:51:33 > 0:51:37You see, I think that's very interesting and very exciting.
0:51:37 > 0:51:40That should play a big part in our planning, I think.
0:51:40 > 0:51:43Well, I can certainly introduce you to the biggest
0:51:43 > 0:51:46frozen food product distributor throughout the UK.
0:51:48 > 0:51:50'It was a really good trip today.'
0:51:50 > 0:51:52What I love is that Allison is already getting on with
0:51:52 > 0:51:54the plan that we'd agreed.
0:51:54 > 0:51:57What we do need to have is that strategic meeting.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00We need to make sure that we start thinking
0:52:00 > 0:52:05and behaving like this big producer that we say we want to be.
0:52:05 > 0:52:08I hope my husband doesn't see this. I haven't cooked in 28 years.
0:52:08 > 0:52:11- So if you'd just like to follow me. - What am I doing?
0:52:11 > 0:52:13Just keep pushing it from the middle to the sides.
0:52:13 > 0:52:16Having Deborah here today, it's been nice that she's actually seen
0:52:16 > 0:52:18what she's bought with her investment.
0:52:18 > 0:52:21It's not just about the money, she's going to give me
0:52:21 > 0:52:23so much more time and expertise.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26You've got bits of gaps at the edge. It needs to go to the edge.
0:52:26 > 0:52:29I won't be doing this again, Allison, so I don't need to be perfect.
0:52:29 > 0:52:33- I think that's as good as it gets. - But I am very impressed.
0:52:33 > 0:52:36Me dreams of hopefully retiring in five years may actually be a reality.
0:52:36 > 0:52:40- Just before you go, the white chocolate.- The white chocolate.
0:52:40 > 0:52:43- Got to finish the job, haven't I, eh?- Don't forget the edges.
0:52:43 > 0:52:46I'm really excited about this business, great potential,
0:52:46 > 0:52:49and, even better than that, they make lovely cakes.
0:52:49 > 0:52:53- Look what I did! - Excellent! That's really good.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59The Den has history with festive business.
0:52:59 > 0:53:01- Hello, everyone! - Hello, Buttons!
0:53:01 > 0:53:05But despite the many hurdles, Christmas commerce does have its benefits.
0:53:07 > 0:53:11There are some advantages to having a business based around the seasons.
0:53:11 > 0:53:14You can really focus and structure your business
0:53:14 > 0:53:17and, if you've got the right product, clearly at the right price,
0:53:17 > 0:53:18you're going to sell.
0:53:18 > 0:53:23A festive business can succeed on its own. It depends on how many people they employ.
0:53:23 > 0:53:29If you employ people for two months and they've got to be unemployed for ten months, that's always an issue.
0:53:29 > 0:53:32As usual in the Den, the Dragons weren't shy of telling
0:53:32 > 0:53:35Melanie Hurley what they thought of her business.
0:53:35 > 0:53:38Six months on, has it had an effect?
0:53:38 > 0:53:41I came out of the Den and I was very disappointed in myself
0:53:41 > 0:53:44because I should have known those answers
0:53:44 > 0:53:49and that really made me think, go back, pick yourself up and get your business running.
0:53:51 > 0:53:55This is the Trafford Centre, this is one of our flagship clients.
0:53:55 > 0:53:59It's very important for me to make sure that everything is 100%,
0:53:59 > 0:54:03so the customer has that great experience.
0:54:03 > 0:54:05Perfect. Merry Christmas.
0:54:05 > 0:54:08The merchandise area is what's really, really important
0:54:08 > 0:54:10because this is where we make our money.
0:54:10 > 0:54:14Normally what happens is the customer will come in and look and go,
0:54:14 > 0:54:17"Oh, I'll just have a photo for five," and actually the computer
0:54:17 > 0:54:21will say, "Hey, for two quid more you can have Package B," or something.
0:54:21 > 0:54:25And actually it doesn't sound too bad then. Ker-ching!
0:54:25 > 0:54:30- Thank you very much.- Merry Christmas.- Thank you.
0:54:30 > 0:54:33- Have we got Finlay?- Yes. - Hello, Finlay.
0:54:35 > 0:54:39I've taken every single piece of advice that every Dragon gave me.
0:54:39 > 0:54:42I'm still looking for that financial director, that's the missing link.
0:54:42 > 0:54:45Everything else, we're ready to go.
0:54:45 > 0:54:48I went into the Den asking for investment.
0:54:48 > 0:54:54Now I've got 32 locations this year, which is double what I had last year.
0:54:54 > 0:54:57I could have given that investment back to them straight away.
0:54:57 > 0:55:00"Damn, we should have invested in that girl, she was right,
0:55:00 > 0:55:01"she was right!"
0:55:04 > 0:55:07Events like Melanie's are big business at Christmas,
0:55:07 > 0:55:12as the hospitality industry cashes in on our collective festive cheer.
0:55:12 > 0:55:15But that's nothing compared to our ability to shop.
0:55:15 > 0:55:19Last December we spent £42 billion on retail alone.
0:55:19 > 0:55:25Some retailers make ALL of their money in that four to six weeks
0:55:25 > 0:55:27running up to Christmas.
0:55:27 > 0:55:30And the rest of the year they just lose money.
0:55:30 > 0:55:34Preparation for Christmas starts the previous Christmas, always does.
0:55:34 > 0:55:36Once you've bought your stock, you've bought it.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39You'll either oversell and run out of stock before Christmas
0:55:39 > 0:55:41or you'll undersell.
0:55:41 > 0:55:42That's so, so stressful.
0:55:45 > 0:55:47The last entrepreneurs to enter the Den this year
0:55:47 > 0:55:49certainly know that pressure.
0:55:49 > 0:55:52Ben and Dave make 70% of their turnover at Christmas
0:55:52 > 0:55:55and this year they've set their targets high.
0:55:55 > 0:55:58So, we're at the Country Living Christmas Fair.
0:55:58 > 0:56:02The aim today is to sell 50 games minimum or as many games as possible.
0:56:02 > 0:56:05All empty down there, isn't it? Why are they all up here?
0:56:05 > 0:56:08We had about 3,000 games that we sold last year
0:56:08 > 0:56:10and this year the target is 10,000.
0:56:10 > 0:56:14We borrowed so much money to get this stock in, it's a disaster if we don't sell it.
0:56:14 > 0:56:18Hello, madam. Have you seen Pucket before?
0:56:18 > 0:56:20Oh, wonderful.
0:56:20 > 0:56:23- Business is slow. - No, it's fine, thanks.
0:56:23 > 0:56:25But, having failed to get investment in the Den,
0:56:25 > 0:56:28what impact has that made on their future plans?
0:56:28 > 0:56:33Unfortunately the Dragons said no, but amazingly, somebody said yes.
0:56:33 > 0:56:37We actually knew him already, so, so we said, "Can we practise our pitch on you?"
0:56:37 > 0:56:40He was like, "Oh, I think... Guys, I need to think about this."
0:56:40 > 0:56:43Afterwards, you know, he signed up and we got his investment
0:56:43 > 0:56:46for the same terms and the same amount of money.
0:56:46 > 0:56:48So it's great.
0:56:48 > 0:56:53- Right, Ben. I think it's about time we had our inaugural game. - OK, let's go.
0:56:53 > 0:56:56The sales technique is, we play, we make a noise,
0:56:56 > 0:57:02Ben sees potential customers slowing down, looking interested, and we engineer a quick finish to the game
0:57:02 > 0:57:05so that we can then say, "Come and see how it works."
0:57:05 > 0:57:07Generally I just win anyway.
0:57:07 > 0:57:10I don't really have to engineer it, but there you go.
0:57:12 > 0:57:15Have you seen the game before, madam? Pull the elastic back.
0:57:15 > 0:57:17Just the elastic. There you go.
0:57:17 > 0:57:19There you go, thank you very much.
0:57:19 > 0:57:20- Thanks, guys.- Cheers.
0:57:20 > 0:57:22Right, come on. Come on, Ben.
0:57:23 > 0:57:26It's these direct sales where we actually make a decent profit.
0:57:26 > 0:57:29So 70% of our turnover, this time of year,
0:57:29 > 0:57:32half of that would be through Christmas fairs.
0:57:32 > 0:57:33Enjoy the game.
0:57:33 > 0:57:35Time for you to win now, isn't it?
0:57:35 > 0:57:37We had a flurry of sales just recently.
0:57:37 > 0:57:38Get your PIN.
0:57:38 > 0:57:41I think I'm on my 10th or 11th.
0:57:41 > 0:57:46- Have some. Thank you.- Would you like to see how the game works, madam?
0:57:46 > 0:57:50In some ways it's a bizarre experience being in the Den, because
0:57:50 > 0:57:53it's possibly the most important business meeting of your life.
0:57:53 > 0:57:56The challenge of pitching to five people who've run
0:57:56 > 0:57:59well-established businesses for a long time, the challenge of
0:57:59 > 0:58:01justifying your numbers, justifying your business,
0:58:01 > 0:58:04- and actually I enjoyed it.- Yeah.
0:58:04 > 0:58:08- Yeah!- That was a quick win. Well played.
0:58:08 > 0:58:10Coming to the end of the fair.
0:58:10 > 0:58:11We're just slightly shy of 50
0:58:11 > 0:58:14but, you know, we're happy enough with that.
0:58:14 > 0:58:17And that works out at about £800 profit.
0:58:17 > 0:58:20We get another day like that, we will have paid our stall costs.
0:58:20 > 0:58:23From then on, we're making money for ourselves.
0:58:23 > 0:58:25The Dragons thought the market was too small.
0:58:25 > 0:58:28It might not explode and be the next Apple,
0:58:28 > 0:58:31but we're not necessarily aiming for that.
0:58:31 > 0:58:34I guess we're determined to see the business succeed,
0:58:34 > 0:58:36and it's...it's getting there.
0:58:45 > 0:58:50That's it for our special Christmas edition of Dragons' Den.
0:58:50 > 0:58:51We hope you've enjoyed watching
0:58:51 > 0:58:54and that you have a very merry Christmas. Good night.
0:59:12 > 0:59:16Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd