0:00:02 > 0:00:05In a deserted warehouse...
0:00:06 > 0:00:09- Oh, my God, I'm so sorry. - It's fine. Don't worry.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11..on the dreaded third floor...
0:00:13 > 0:00:16I'm sorry. My mind has gone just completely blank at the moment.
0:00:16 > 0:00:21..people flock to the intense pressure cooker
0:00:21 > 0:00:23that is the Dragons' Den.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25Do you know what?
0:00:25 > 0:00:27- We'll do that.- We'll do it.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30Real people with real dreams.
0:00:30 > 0:00:31I like it.
0:00:31 > 0:00:33Oh, my God!
0:00:33 > 0:00:35Meeting real investors with real money.
0:00:35 > 0:00:36Thank you.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38Hey!
0:00:38 > 0:00:41I'm Richard Osman, and for me, watching Dragons' Den
0:00:41 > 0:00:44is the perfect combination of business and pleasure,
0:00:44 > 0:00:48with a little bit of pain, when I have to listen to Peter Jones
0:00:48 > 0:00:51making his puns about, say, a trampoline for cats.
0:00:51 > 0:00:55For years, I've been intrigued as those intrepid entrepreneurs have
0:00:55 > 0:00:57stepped out in front of the Dragons.
0:00:57 > 0:00:59Did you come in here looking for a fight?
0:00:59 > 0:01:02Rooted for them, as they pitched for their future success...
0:01:02 > 0:01:04I'm really sorry.
0:01:04 > 0:01:05I'm sorry, I've just gone quite light-headed.
0:01:05 > 0:01:09And squirmed, winced and, on occasion, hidden behind the sofa,
0:01:09 > 0:01:13as they tackle the biggest interrogation of their lives.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15That couldn't have gone any worse, could it?
0:01:15 > 0:01:16How much profit are you going to make next year?
0:01:16 > 0:01:18I'm looking to turn over...
0:01:18 > 0:01:21No, no, no. Next word out of your mouth is a number.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24Now I'm going to relive extraordinary moments.
0:01:24 > 0:01:28You've got these crazy people walking in and saying, we've got small pencils.
0:01:28 > 0:01:32- You're in trouble. - Touker was crazy. Like, what?
0:01:32 > 0:01:34Find out how those Den deals are doing.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36Nice to meet you.
0:01:36 > 0:01:39Am I worth 50%? Of course I'm worth 50%.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43And discover if a Dragon's help really can make profits soar...
0:01:43 > 0:01:46- Would you like a little bit of vinegar, sir?- Yes, please.
0:01:46 > 0:01:47OK, that's an extra 5p.
0:01:47 > 0:01:49..in my continuing quest
0:01:49 > 0:01:53to find out if pitches really do lead to riches.
0:01:53 > 0:01:54HE CHUCKLES
0:01:58 > 0:02:04The Dragons. The toughest investors an entrepreneur will ever face.
0:02:04 > 0:02:08And they never get a second chance to make a first impression.
0:02:10 > 0:02:12(This is it.)
0:02:14 > 0:02:16(This is the moment of our lives.)
0:02:17 > 0:02:19(Are you ready?
0:02:19 > 0:02:22(I was born ready.)
0:02:22 > 0:02:23It's never a bad idea
0:02:23 > 0:02:27to come through those lift doors with a bang.
0:02:27 > 0:02:29Perfect entrance.
0:02:29 > 0:02:31It's what I call theatre.
0:02:31 > 0:02:33Ey up!
0:02:33 > 0:02:37# What's that coming over the hill? Is it a monster? #
0:02:37 > 0:02:39I don't care what anybody says.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42They always form a first impression.
0:02:42 > 0:02:45Have you ever met someone who's got that ambitious that he wants to be
0:02:45 > 0:02:47free from life and be a billionaire?
0:02:47 > 0:02:51It's a very, very high pressured environment.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54They can win me or lose me in that instant.
0:02:57 > 0:03:00If you come into the Den, I expect you to dress for the occasion.
0:03:00 > 0:03:01What's wrong with a suit?
0:03:01 > 0:03:04Nothing is wrong with a suit, Peter, but it's not me.
0:03:04 > 0:03:06What's with the scarf?
0:03:06 > 0:03:09Do you know what? You've got to stand out sometimes.
0:03:09 > 0:03:13I am always so excited to see what is coming through those doors.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15Look at them.
0:03:16 > 0:03:19ALL: Hi!
0:03:19 > 0:03:23We have no idea what is coming next.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26Is that me?
0:03:26 > 0:03:27No, it's him.
0:03:28 > 0:03:32It's a high-risk strategy, when you burst through the doors.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35Because your business has kind of got to follow through.
0:03:39 > 0:03:44# Gold Always believe in your soul... #
0:03:45 > 0:03:47Did that just happen?
0:03:49 > 0:03:52First up on their journey from pitch to rich are a duo
0:03:52 > 0:03:55whose whole business is built on first impressions.
0:03:55 > 0:03:59Beth Chilton and Sarah Sleightholm cat-walked out
0:03:59 > 0:04:02of the lift with their fledgling fashion business.
0:04:04 > 0:04:07I've invited both of them back to relive their Den experience
0:04:07 > 0:04:11and shed light on what it's like to face those five formidable Dragons.
0:04:12 > 0:04:17One of whom was particularly formidable that day.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20Now you, I think, very specifically, and we'll see why,
0:04:20 > 0:04:23you came in to try and get a deal with Touker.
0:04:23 > 0:04:26- Yes.- Is the truth. Shall we take a look?- Yes. Let's.- Let's.
0:04:29 > 0:04:34Hello, Dragons. We started our business in October of last year,
0:04:34 > 0:04:36and within four weeks, we had our first order.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39And since then, we've grossed £530,000 worth of sales,
0:04:39 > 0:04:42and we're currently at about a 28% profit margin with that.
0:04:42 > 0:04:44Well, this is the big moment, right?
0:04:44 > 0:04:47It's a huge deal in the fashion industry to get Touker on board.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50- It can be utterly transformative, right?- Yeah.
0:04:50 > 0:04:51- Hi.- Hi.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54- I know a little bit about clothing. - Yep.- Yep.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58- I know all the pitfalls.- Oh, God, this is where it starts.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01You're not focused. You've got two brands there,
0:05:01 > 0:05:04you've got to double your costs of marketing.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06You're going to double your costs of website.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09And already, you're stretching yourselves very wide.
0:05:09 > 0:05:10You are in trouble.
0:05:12 > 0:05:15What were you thinking when he first said that?
0:05:15 > 0:05:16I ended up kind of just going,
0:05:16 > 0:05:19"Oh, my gosh. This is going to be career suicide."
0:05:19 > 0:05:22Like, white noise all of a sudden. I was like, "Oh, my God."
0:05:22 > 0:05:25Touker has been in this game for a long time,
0:05:25 > 0:05:26probably most of his adult life.
0:05:26 > 0:05:29'What I heard him saying was that you haven't done very well,
0:05:29 > 0:05:31'and actually, anybody to do this.'
0:05:31 > 0:05:34Oh, no, don't say this, Peter!
0:05:34 > 0:05:37'We know that it's sellable. People want it. They want it now.'
0:05:37 > 0:05:39"We know!"
0:05:39 > 0:05:40LAUGHTER
0:05:40 > 0:05:43I think that after the grilling and Peter was saying,
0:05:43 > 0:05:44"Oh, you just keep agreeing." So we were like,
0:05:44 > 0:05:47"Right, we need to go... Let's just fight for this."
0:05:47 > 0:05:50You are better off focusing on one brand.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53I don't know how we can stop something that's doing so well.
0:05:53 > 0:05:56That's why we really want them both, and they both succeeding.
0:05:56 > 0:05:58- OK, I've seen it before.- OK.
0:05:58 > 0:06:03And, to me, two brands, two websites...
0:06:03 > 0:06:04You are in for a disaster.
0:06:06 > 0:06:10When we went into the Den, we didn't even consider another Dragon -
0:06:10 > 0:06:12just cos Touker was so focused on the fashion and retail sector,
0:06:12 > 0:06:14we were just like, "If we can get him,
0:06:14 > 0:06:16"that would just be amazing."
0:06:16 > 0:06:19I think, at this point, we were just trying to ride it through...
0:06:19 > 0:06:21Yeah - get out with your dignity intact.
0:06:21 > 0:06:22Yeah, yeah.
0:06:22 > 0:06:26But were their fortunes about to change?
0:06:26 > 0:06:29'I was waiting to see whether he's being cleverly tactical,
0:06:29 > 0:06:31'by just talking, and it's just noise...'
0:06:31 > 0:06:33- And putting us off! - And putting us off.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36I have a business...
0:06:36 > 0:06:38Have you heard of Farrell, or come across Farrell,
0:06:38 > 0:06:39- with Robbie Williams?- Yeah.
0:06:39 > 0:06:41- You didn't look like you had. BOTH:- No!
0:06:41 > 0:06:45Even with what Touker is saying, if I invest,
0:06:45 > 0:06:48could I make a difference and help you turn this into a great business?
0:06:48 > 0:06:51Like, "Please, please, please...!"
0:06:52 > 0:06:53I think I can.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55- Like, "Yes!"- "Ah!"
0:06:55 > 0:06:56'Wow. Thank you.'
0:06:56 > 0:06:59- PETER:- 'So I'm going to make you an offer
0:06:59 > 0:07:02'because I think you have done a great job.'
0:07:02 > 0:07:06My heart was leaping out of my chest at that point.
0:07:06 > 0:07:11'I'm going to offer you all of the money for 25% of the business.'
0:07:11 > 0:07:14So, this is not something you were expecting at all.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17- Not at all.- Because you'd gone in to think about Touker.
0:07:17 > 0:07:19Suddenly, you're presented with a different reality.
0:07:19 > 0:07:21I mean, this guy is involved in Farrell.
0:07:21 > 0:07:22I don't know if you know Farrell... LAUGHTER
0:07:22 > 0:07:25- Just a scenario we hadn't even thought of, I think.- Yeah.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28So, all of a sudden, it was just... We were like, "Oh, my God."
0:07:29 > 0:07:32Peter Jones just had to put the dragon amongst the pigeons
0:07:32 > 0:07:36and now, another was about to raise the stakes even higher.
0:07:37 > 0:07:42I'm going to offer you all of the money for 20% of the business.
0:07:42 > 0:07:43- OK, thank you.- Thank you.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45'Oh, and I'm happy to share.'
0:07:47 > 0:07:48This is properly confusing now.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51Yeah, we're kind of like, "What's been happening for the last...?"
0:07:51 > 0:07:57How has it come from thinking we've just had career suicide...
0:07:57 > 0:07:59..to everybody jumping on board?
0:07:59 > 0:08:01Just kind of like, "OK."
0:08:02 > 0:08:05So, the last Dragon standing was their old adversary,
0:08:05 > 0:08:07Touker Suleyman.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10It was time to find out if, by playing Beth and Sarah down,
0:08:10 > 0:08:13he'd actually been playing the Den all along?
0:08:14 > 0:08:16OK.
0:08:17 > 0:08:20Um... I know what's involved. I know what you need.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24- Mm-hm.- And it's going to take a lot of time, a lot of energy,
0:08:24 > 0:08:26to make this into a proper business.
0:08:26 > 0:08:28I will make you an offer, for all the money,
0:08:28 > 0:08:31but I want 40%.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39What were you thinking when he first said that?
0:08:39 > 0:08:41That was crazy! Touker was crazy.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43- Yeah.- Like, what?
0:08:43 > 0:08:47'Shall we go and do our thing at the back of the room?'
0:08:47 > 0:08:49'Yeah. Can we...?'
0:08:51 > 0:08:56So, you have a big choice to make, which is the dream, which is Touker,
0:08:56 > 0:09:00or people that you hadn't considered at all.
0:09:00 > 0:09:02There's no way - there's no way -
0:09:02 > 0:09:04that you would go with one of the other Dragons,
0:09:04 > 0:09:07even if they made an offer, because he is Touker.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13- ..discuss...- That's all right. - You go.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15So, we would like to see if,
0:09:15 > 0:09:18Peter, you'd go in with Deborah...
0:09:20 > 0:09:22..at all on the offer?
0:09:24 > 0:09:27At this point, I thought he was going to go, "No."
0:09:27 > 0:09:29And I was like, "Oh, God, I've made a mistake.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31"We should have just asked for one, not two."
0:09:34 > 0:09:36I would accept that offer if Deborah would.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38I'd be happy to. I'd be delighted to, actually.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39Thank you.
0:09:39 > 0:09:43- Yeah!- Oh, look! That's so sweet.
0:09:43 > 0:09:44Yeah, well done.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47Figure out how we do this now. We're in business together.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49Thank you so much.
0:09:49 > 0:09:50I think, with Touker grilling us for so long,
0:09:50 > 0:09:53it kind of felt like he didn't have confidence in us,
0:09:53 > 0:09:55even though he put an offer forward.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58We kind of felt that he just didn't believe in us enough
0:09:58 > 0:10:00to accept, you know, his offer.
0:10:00 > 0:10:02Congratulations!
0:10:02 > 0:10:05And how is it gone since you left the Den?
0:10:05 > 0:10:07How involved have they been and what has been happening?
0:10:07 > 0:10:11Since being in the Den, our turnover has doubled,
0:10:11 > 0:10:13so our first year has been, like, incredible.
0:10:13 > 0:10:15We've now got into all the retailers
0:10:15 > 0:10:16that we wanted to get into.
0:10:16 > 0:10:20So, our projections for next year are looking really, really good.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22Everything has just been amazing for us.
0:10:22 > 0:10:24It's lovely. You know, it was such a tale of the unexpected,
0:10:24 > 0:10:27you know, to go in looking for one thing, and to actually have
0:10:27 > 0:10:29the exact opposite, and for that to be the dream.
0:10:29 > 0:10:32So, thank you so much for coming in and very best of luck with it all.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35- Thank you.- Lovely watching it again. - It was fun, right?
0:10:37 > 0:10:39As one of Britain's leading hipsters,
0:10:39 > 0:10:42I can totally understand why the Den's longest-serving Dragons
0:10:42 > 0:10:45invested in Beth and Sarah's business.
0:10:45 > 0:10:49And Deborah Meaden also had another reason to celebrate this year.
0:10:51 > 0:10:55Ten years ago, the grand dame of the Den took her seat.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58I'm not here to lose money. I'm here to make money.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00Famous for her no-nonsense approach...
0:11:00 > 0:11:01Stop talking over me.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03My apologies.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06..the press have even compared her to an EastEnders character.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11I'm irritated. Yes, I'm blinkin' irritated.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15You're feeling very uncomfortable at this moment.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17You damn well ought be. Aren't you?
0:11:17 > 0:11:22Every time somebody raises an issue, you are, "Yup, got it. Back at you."
0:11:22 > 0:11:24Oh...!
0:11:24 > 0:11:25Bramble, jump!
0:11:25 > 0:11:28But there is a way to get on her good side.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30Before you say anything, there's my money.
0:11:30 > 0:11:32You've got dogs. There's my money.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35Gorgeous dogs.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38She loves pets almost as much as she loves patents.
0:11:38 > 0:11:40Well, I was about to say I'd love to see the patent.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43- I'll find it.- Oh, sorry.
0:11:43 > 0:11:46Absolutely understand how the patent system works.
0:11:46 > 0:11:49You know, I hate to be boring - I'm going to have to look at the patent.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53And she is especially good when it comes to manipulating digits.
0:11:53 > 0:11:55I think this is right up your alley.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57LAUGHTER
0:11:57 > 0:11:58Is it cos I do that?
0:12:00 > 0:12:03Deborah is the queen of the Den.
0:12:03 > 0:12:06She is our in-house lawyer
0:12:06 > 0:12:07and she is mother hen.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10Three words to describe Deborah...
0:12:10 > 0:12:13Absolutely bloomin' brilliant.
0:12:15 > 0:12:18In the 11 years since the Den hit our screens,
0:12:18 > 0:12:20it's become part of popular culture.
0:12:20 > 0:12:23You simply can't move for Dragons on TV these days.
0:12:23 > 0:12:25'Try Lady Yvonne Sparrow.'
0:12:25 > 0:12:27You know Evil Yvonne?
0:12:27 > 0:12:28Evil Yvonne?
0:12:28 > 0:12:30Yeah! She's like a Dragon, ain't she?
0:12:31 > 0:12:34Well, she wasn't easy to live with, but...
0:12:34 > 0:12:36No, no! Dragons' Den. It's this TV programme
0:12:36 > 0:12:38where poor people come in with all their dreams,
0:12:38 > 0:12:40and rich people make them cry.
0:12:40 > 0:12:41It's on YouTube.
0:12:41 > 0:12:42During the recording
0:12:42 > 0:12:45of the Kazakhstan TV's version of Dragons' Den,
0:12:45 > 0:12:49there were very few takers for the automatic clothes drier.
0:12:49 > 0:12:51LAUGHTER
0:12:53 > 0:12:56We have seen some bizarre inventions on this programme,
0:12:56 > 0:12:58but this one really takes the biscuit.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01There is no way this thing will ever get off the ground.
0:13:05 > 0:13:06I'm out.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11I mean, there can't be anyone who hasn't heard of Dragons' Den.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14In your everyday life, everyone must know who you are
0:13:14 > 0:13:16and must want to talk to you about it.
0:13:16 > 0:13:17What I love about it is
0:13:17 > 0:13:20it's not always attached to me - sometimes, people will say,
0:13:20 > 0:13:21"We're having a Dragons' Den style..."
0:13:21 > 0:13:24You know, it's just incidental. It's not cos I'm there.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26It's just entered the vernacular.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28I also love...there is a whole age group of people
0:13:28 > 0:13:30who have grown up with it.
0:13:30 > 0:13:32So, they're sort of, 18, 19, now,
0:13:32 > 0:13:34they talk about business like it's in their DNA.
0:13:34 > 0:13:36That's brilliant.
0:13:36 > 0:13:38I spend a lot of my time being shouted at in the street
0:13:38 > 0:13:41and people shouting "Pointless!" at me out of van windows.
0:13:41 > 0:13:43What do people shout at you?
0:13:43 > 0:13:45Oh, all the time...
0:13:45 > 0:13:48"I'm out!" It's like, you know, "Yeah... I'm out."
0:13:48 > 0:13:50SHE LAUGHS WEAKLY
0:13:50 > 0:13:52How many times a day, would you say?
0:13:52 > 0:13:57Oh...I mean, if I'm walking through a train station,
0:13:57 > 0:14:00without exception, two or three shouts.
0:14:00 > 0:14:02You know, it's, "Oh, hello, I'm out!"
0:14:03 > 0:14:07Now, do you think you will ever utter those famous words,
0:14:07 > 0:14:09"I'm out for good", and leave the Den?
0:14:09 > 0:14:11Or are you with us for the foreseeable future?
0:14:11 > 0:14:13You know, every year, I wonder.
0:14:13 > 0:14:15But every year, as soon as we start filming, I think,
0:14:15 > 0:14:19"Oh, I love this. This feels like home. This is what I do."
0:14:19 > 0:14:21So, as long as I love it, I'll carry on doing it.
0:14:25 > 0:14:28Yeah, I'm guessing Deborah's actual home might be a little different.
0:14:28 > 0:14:31But much as she is loving the Den and keen as ever to invest,
0:14:31 > 0:14:35surely she wouldn't part with her cash for a piece of plastic with a brush on the end?
0:14:35 > 0:14:38None of the Dragons would...right?
0:14:38 > 0:14:41Cue the Dhillon family,
0:14:41 > 0:14:44who hope to go from pitch to rich with just that.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48- Hi, I'm Gurminder.- Hi, I'm Arminder. - Hi, I'm Rashpal.
0:14:48 > 0:14:51So, here in my hands, I have the home-made prototype
0:14:51 > 0:14:53of the Boot Buddy.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55The idea came one day after football training,
0:14:55 > 0:14:57when I decided there had to be an easier way
0:14:57 > 0:14:58to clean my muddy football boots.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00Now, we have our own proper Boot Buddy
0:15:00 > 0:15:03in one compact, portable gadget.
0:15:03 > 0:15:06To date, we've turned over £100,000 in the last year
0:15:06 > 0:15:08and we sold 6,500 units.
0:15:08 > 0:15:13Thank you for your time and I hope, together, we can...
0:15:13 > 0:15:16ALL: Leave the outdoors outside.
0:15:16 > 0:15:17RICHARD: Nice!
0:15:17 > 0:15:19But you need a lot more than a catchphrase.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22And, after the boot cleaner had been thoroughly road-tested,
0:15:22 > 0:15:25it was time for its 15-year-old inventor to leave.
0:15:25 > 0:15:27Too young to negotiate with the Dragons directly, you see.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30Now, the Den could get serious.
0:15:30 > 0:15:33Would Peter Jones stick the boot in?
0:15:35 > 0:15:40I have to say, until you said that you sold £100,000 worth of product,
0:15:40 > 0:15:41I was a little bit in shock,
0:15:41 > 0:15:45because it is just a water bottle with a brush on the end.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47At that point, I was just weighing it up,
0:15:47 > 0:15:49because even I know, sometimes,
0:15:49 > 0:15:52the simplest ideas are not always the best.
0:15:52 > 0:15:56My biggest issue is the fact you've got to continue to refill it.
0:15:59 > 0:16:02Things were looking bleak for the mother and son duo,
0:16:02 > 0:16:04but then, Touker Suleyman wanted
0:16:04 > 0:16:07to brush up on the business side of things.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10What's the structure? I mean, you are working out of home.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12Yeah, we are, we work out of our home office.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14So what's your real business?
0:16:14 > 0:16:16- Fish and chips... - Fish and chips?
0:16:16 > 0:16:17Yes, fish and chips.
0:16:17 > 0:16:19Oh, I love fish and chips.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22I do. I really do, I love fish and chips!
0:16:22 > 0:16:25And what's your share structure? I mean, who owns the business?
0:16:25 > 0:16:28Well, obviously, Mum is the boss. She put the money in.
0:16:28 > 0:16:29Mum's got 60% and...
0:16:30 > 0:16:32Everybody else has 10%.
0:16:32 > 0:16:35Right. And how much did Mum put in?
0:16:35 > 0:16:37Um...
0:16:37 > 0:16:39Total, just below 250,000.
0:16:42 > 0:16:43How much?
0:16:43 > 0:16:47- Sorry? £250,000?- Yes.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49HE WHISTLES
0:16:49 > 0:16:50Wow! Um...
0:16:50 > 0:16:53Wow. Good God.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56That's a lot of fish and chips you must have sold!
0:16:57 > 0:17:01Half of me thought, "What an amazing mum."
0:17:01 > 0:17:03I mean, such commitment.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05She was so incredible.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07And then the other half of me was thinking,
0:17:07 > 0:17:09"Oh, God, no, that's bonkers! No!"
0:17:09 > 0:17:12I'm going to say no. I'm afraid I'm out.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15You would have to more sell more than I believe that you can sell
0:17:15 > 0:17:17so, for that reason, I'm out.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20The chip shop owners were taking a bit of a battering -
0:17:20 > 0:17:24but was Touker Suleyman feeling any more chipper?
0:17:24 > 0:17:28On paper, there was a lot of work to be done, but it did something to me.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31My soft side came out.
0:17:31 > 0:17:34It needs a lot. It needs...
0:17:34 > 0:17:37To be focused, to sell it.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39Somebody who has got the contacts.
0:17:39 > 0:17:41Somebody who can run the website.
0:17:41 > 0:17:44Somebody who can give you some offices to work out of.
0:17:46 > 0:17:48I will tell you what I'm going to do.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52I'm willing to give you all the money,
0:17:52 > 0:17:53but I want 35%.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59I think you've done an amazing job and I...
0:17:59 > 0:18:02I think it's a good product.
0:18:02 > 0:18:04So, I'm going to offer you half of the money...
0:18:06 > 0:18:07..and I would want...
0:18:12 > 0:18:14..12.5% of the business.
0:18:16 > 0:18:20On paper, this business doesn't look good.
0:18:20 > 0:18:21A quarter million in the red,
0:18:21 > 0:18:25so much money invested in IP, but you know what?
0:18:25 > 0:18:29I thought..."We can make a lot of money from this."
0:18:29 > 0:18:34I wonder whether three Dragons
0:18:34 > 0:18:37could give this exactly what this needs?
0:18:37 > 0:18:43So, I will offer you...£20,000 for 10%,
0:18:43 > 0:18:47if the other Dragons agreed, but you get three Dragons.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50The three of us will make a fantastic team.
0:18:53 > 0:18:54It was decision time.
0:18:54 > 0:18:58A rare offer from three Dragons, but that comes at a price.
0:18:58 > 0:19:02In this case, they wanted 30% of the business -
0:19:02 > 0:19:05three times more equity than the Dhillons had originally offered.
0:19:05 > 0:19:10Um...yeah, we would love to work with all three of you.
0:19:10 > 0:19:12Three is my favourite number, anyway!
0:19:12 > 0:19:13- Is it your lucky number? - It is my lucky number.
0:19:13 > 0:19:16- There you are, well...- Thank you. - Fantastic, well done.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18Oh, OK.
0:19:18 > 0:19:19APPLAUSE
0:19:19 > 0:19:21- GURMINDER:- The man of the hour!
0:19:22 > 0:19:24Do you think Mum made the right decision?
0:19:25 > 0:19:27Yes, the best decision.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40When I watched the Boot Buddy pitch,
0:19:40 > 0:19:42I had to come and see Rashpal and the boys - firstly, cos
0:19:42 > 0:19:45I have a lifelong fascination with how people clean their boots,
0:19:45 > 0:19:48and secondly, they work in a fish and chip shop.
0:19:53 > 0:19:55As one of the world's leading Dragons' Den experts,
0:19:55 > 0:19:58nothing will distract me from investigating what has happened
0:19:58 > 0:20:02in the five months since the deal...apart from chips.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05That is lovely. Thank you very much.
0:20:05 > 0:20:06There you go.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09Every single thing we shoot should be like this.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12Now, I'm going to be honest with you, it's not only me who is here today.
0:20:12 > 0:20:16There's another gentleman I met at the Great Britain Tall Men's Club
0:20:16 > 0:20:18who has come to see you as well.
0:20:25 > 0:20:27- Hey!- Hey.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30What are you doing there? You should be selling Boot Buddies!
0:20:30 > 0:20:32What can I say? Got to do both at the same time.
0:20:32 > 0:20:33- Hey, Peter. How are you? - How are you?
0:20:33 > 0:20:35- I'm very well. How are you? - Arminder!
0:20:35 > 0:20:38- RASHPAL:- Guess who's here? Look. Look who's here.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41- Hey! How are you?- Nice to meet you. - How are you doing? The genius.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43- Good to see you, Peter. - Are you well?
0:20:43 > 0:20:45- Yes, good, thank you. - I've got some good news for you.
0:20:45 > 0:20:48- I know we've got a big delivery of stock coming in, haven't we?- Yes.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51We've got 20 to 25,000 units.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54At the run rate at the moment, it would take us, probably,
0:20:54 > 0:20:55about four-and-a-half months, four months,
0:20:55 > 0:20:58- to sell 20 to 25,000, wouldn't it? - Yes, yeah.
0:20:58 > 0:21:00Unless, of course, you've got a good relationship
0:21:00 > 0:21:04with the biggest sports company in Britain, Sports Direct,
0:21:04 > 0:21:07who have decided to take all of your stock.
0:21:07 > 0:21:09- Wow!- What?
0:21:09 > 0:21:11They've ordered for 20,000, and they'll take up to 200,000.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14You are off and running. Well done.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18- Wow...wow!- Nice, man, well done! Well done you.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21You could end up selling a million Boot Buddies in the next 12 months,
0:21:21 > 0:21:24and, most importantly, get all of your money back.
0:21:24 > 0:21:26It'll be the best investment you've ever made.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29- RASHPAL:- Sorry, Richard. There you go, Peter.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32- Thank you very much. - I'm fine...
0:21:33 > 0:21:35So, Arminder, as the inventor of the thing,
0:21:35 > 0:21:37how does that make you feel?
0:21:37 > 0:21:39I'm blown away, to be honest with you.
0:21:39 > 0:21:42I mean, it's amazing to know that it's going to get into
0:21:42 > 0:21:45every household, potentially, in Britain and then, hopefully,
0:21:45 > 0:21:48we can expand and take it global.
0:21:48 > 0:21:49You've got to go back to school tomorrow
0:21:49 > 0:21:53and you'll be saying to everyone, "I got an absolutely huge order for my invention."
0:21:53 > 0:21:55How do your school friends take this whole adventure?
0:21:55 > 0:21:58Well, they're shocked, really.
0:21:58 > 0:21:59Has anyone asked to borrow money yet?
0:21:59 > 0:22:02No, I've had people ask for jobs.
0:22:02 > 0:22:03Oh, really?
0:22:03 > 0:22:07I've told them, "Get a degree first, and then I'll see!"
0:22:07 > 0:22:09Oh, man, this guy is going to go a long way!
0:22:09 > 0:22:10Well, congratulations.
0:22:10 > 0:22:13So lovely to be here, as well, when that news is broken to you.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15What a treat. That took me by surprise as well.
0:22:15 > 0:22:16It's lovely, I'm so happy.
0:22:17 > 0:22:21Last year, turnover for the product was £100,000.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23Do you mind if I come and grab some chips myself?
0:22:23 > 0:22:25- Yeah, go.- Welcome!
0:22:26 > 0:22:28The deal that Peter has just orchestrated
0:22:28 > 0:22:30is set to make the business £1 million.
0:22:30 > 0:22:32Right, what do you do?
0:22:32 > 0:22:33Just like that?
0:22:33 > 0:22:36You all right, love? Want some chippies?
0:22:36 > 0:22:39Next job, a lesson in upselling.
0:22:39 > 0:22:41Is there nothing this man can't do?
0:22:41 > 0:22:43Would you like a little bit of vinegar, sir?
0:22:43 > 0:22:45- Yes, please. Thank you. - That's an extra 5p.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47- Would you like some salt, please? - Yes, absolutely.
0:22:47 > 0:22:49That's only 10p, so that's perfect.
0:22:51 > 0:22:53It's 9.80, but actually, for an extra 20p,
0:22:53 > 0:22:55you can have something to eat it with.
0:22:55 > 0:22:57There you go, perfect. £10 for cash, sir.
0:22:57 > 0:22:59- Thank you very much indeed. - Thank you.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01Thanks for visiting Peter's.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04- Peter's?- I'll talk to you about that later, it's a takeover.
0:23:13 > 0:23:16So, Peter, it's quite unusual for three Dragons to go in on a deal.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18It does happen, but it's quite unusual.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20So you are in this deal with Deborah and Touker.
0:23:20 > 0:23:22How is that working for you?
0:23:22 > 0:23:24I think it's working, you know...
0:23:24 > 0:23:25It was working fine,
0:23:25 > 0:23:27up until the fact that I ended up getting the order,
0:23:27 > 0:23:30and then I did think to myself, "What am I doing?"
0:23:30 > 0:23:33No, I am quite pleased. I'll tell you why I'm really chuffed -
0:23:33 > 0:23:36because Touker spent so much of the series
0:23:36 > 0:23:38trying to give his office away to someone,
0:23:38 > 0:23:42and he managed to find a 15-year-old to give his office to.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44So, the big deal you've just done,
0:23:44 > 0:23:45how much of that is, "It's a great product",
0:23:45 > 0:23:48and how much of that is, "A Dragon is selling that great product"?
0:23:48 > 0:23:51I do think it is a combination.
0:23:51 > 0:23:53It has to be a good enough product to sell,
0:23:53 > 0:23:55but if you know the person that owns the company,
0:23:55 > 0:23:58that has major influence and you can pick the phone up,
0:23:58 > 0:24:00it's...it's really easy.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02And they know you've got a track record and that, you know,
0:24:02 > 0:24:04you back winners.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06I suppose so, to a certain extent. I like everybody to think that,
0:24:06 > 0:24:09but the reality is that I've got a long stream of things that haven't
0:24:09 > 0:24:10gone well behind my back...
0:24:10 > 0:24:13- Oh, yeah, me too.- But let's not talk about those today.- Exactly.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15Throw enough mud at the wall, some of it sticks eventually.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17Absolutely right.
0:24:17 > 0:24:18Well, best of luck.
0:24:18 > 0:24:21- Oh, thank you. I'm terribly excited. But, you know...- Shall we...?
0:24:21 > 0:24:23Into chips. Do you think this would make a good investment,
0:24:23 > 0:24:26the sort of place, or not?
0:24:28 > 0:24:32Still to come, the secrets of the back wall revealed.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35Sarah always gives me a little nudge.
0:24:35 > 0:24:38(There is no chance he'll accept 20 in a million years.)
0:24:38 > 0:24:42And did this man go from pitch to rich?
0:24:42 > 0:24:44- LAUGHTER - Thank you.- That's brilliant.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47But before that...
0:24:48 > 0:24:49Grab your organic popcorn,
0:24:49 > 0:24:52as two more entrepreneurs relive the moment
0:24:52 > 0:24:55they faced the formidable five.
0:24:55 > 0:24:58Ross Williams and Surlender Pendress entered the Den,
0:24:58 > 0:25:02hoping their pint-sized pencils would be big enough to land a deal.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04But did they make the grade with the Dragons?
0:25:06 > 0:25:09Surlender and Ross, thank you so much for coming and joining me.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11We are going to watch your pitch.
0:25:11 > 0:25:12It's the sort of thing that sometimes happens -
0:25:12 > 0:25:14people bring in products, you just go,
0:25:14 > 0:25:16"Is that the worst idea I've ever seen,
0:25:16 > 0:25:18"or the best idea I've ever seen?"
0:25:18 > 0:25:20Shall we watch?
0:25:20 > 0:25:22- Yes.- Let's.- Let's do it.
0:25:28 > 0:25:29Thank you for your time.
0:25:29 > 0:25:31What we want to show you today
0:25:31 > 0:25:34is something we've created based upon two things -
0:25:34 > 0:25:35maths and logic.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38If I can show you this...
0:25:38 > 0:25:41Would anybody use a pen of this size?
0:25:41 > 0:25:45I don't think so. It's not the right-sized tool.
0:25:45 > 0:25:47That's a good visual aid.
0:25:47 > 0:25:49It was rubbish.
0:25:49 > 0:25:50'But here's the thing.
0:25:52 > 0:25:54'When you have a child who is five years old,
0:25:54 > 0:25:59'they are about 55% the size of us, and when you give them this'
0:25:59 > 0:26:01to learn to write with,
0:26:01 > 0:26:07to them, it will actually feel like this, because of scale.
0:26:07 > 0:26:10'This is the right-sized tool for us,
0:26:10 > 0:26:12'and these are the tools'
0:26:12 > 0:26:13that we've made.
0:26:17 > 0:26:21So, what we have here, essentially, is shorter pencils...
0:26:22 > 0:26:25- ..to scale. - To scale.
0:26:25 > 0:26:27But shorter than normal pencils.
0:26:27 > 0:26:29Not just shorter, because obviously, we've made them...
0:26:29 > 0:26:31We thought, "What is the best thing you can make for a child?"
0:26:31 > 0:26:33Therefore, we made them with greater diameter,
0:26:33 > 0:26:35with a slightly thicker core.
0:26:35 > 0:26:38We didn't just do this for a laugh - this is...
0:26:38 > 0:26:39It makes sense.
0:26:39 > 0:26:42- I hear you.- Yeah, it is. - It's logic.
0:26:42 > 0:26:44It is logic. It is sense.
0:26:44 > 0:26:47Hey, it's logic, it's scale, it's a slightly shorter pencil.
0:26:47 > 0:26:48Why wouldn't we do that?
0:26:51 > 0:26:53'Why?'
0:26:53 > 0:26:54Why do it?
0:26:54 > 0:26:58Why would you want to buy different size pencils?
0:26:58 > 0:27:00'They don't have the same size shoes,
0:27:00 > 0:27:02'they don't have the same size anything,
0:27:02 > 0:27:04'and this is a tool, a craftsmanship...
0:27:04 > 0:27:06'We forget this - learning to write is a craftsman...'
0:27:06 > 0:27:08'I see your salesmanship, but...'
0:27:08 > 0:27:10'They are smaller people, Peter.'
0:27:10 > 0:27:14'I understand that. But I'm questioning why.'
0:27:14 > 0:27:17Everyone at home is thinking that as well, by the way, at this point.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19But we've answered that question in the pitch.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22As Surlender said, it's to make learning to write more easy.
0:27:22 > 0:27:25It takes six years to learn to write for the average child. Six years.
0:27:25 > 0:27:29So if you can improve that speed by...15, 20%?
0:27:31 > 0:27:32'In every adult profession,
0:27:32 > 0:27:34'where somebody learns a dextrous skill,
0:27:34 > 0:27:36'we give them the tools to fit their hands.'
0:27:36 > 0:27:39All tools fit our hands. They are adult tools.
0:27:39 > 0:27:42Yes, but I'm not teaching my five-year-old to be a calligrapher.
0:27:43 > 0:27:46It's not chiming with their business brain, perhaps.
0:27:46 > 0:27:48I can understand it from their point of view.
0:27:48 > 0:27:50You've got these crazy people walking in, saying,
0:27:50 > 0:27:51- "We've got small pencils." - Less of the crazy!
0:27:51 > 0:27:53Where are the crazy people coming from?
0:27:53 > 0:27:55Where is the crazy coming from?!
0:27:57 > 0:28:00Very often, you think, "Why hasn't anyone looked at this before?"
0:28:00 > 0:28:03- Mm-hm.- It isn't that they haven't looked at it before -
0:28:03 > 0:28:05it's that they looked at it and thought it wasn't worthwhile.
0:28:05 > 0:28:07There are lots of things, like dog nappies -
0:28:07 > 0:28:09why hasn't anybody come up with dog nappies before?
0:28:09 > 0:28:11Probably have, decided it wasn't worthwhile.
0:28:11 > 0:28:14- That's a good question. - Is it?
0:28:14 > 0:28:16Can't you apply that to everything in life?
0:28:16 > 0:28:18Yeah...otherwise, nobody would ever make anything.
0:28:18 > 0:28:22"I don't know why they came in with that. Somebody will have thought of that before."
0:28:22 > 0:28:25- Nobody would ever go in with anything.- There would never be another new invention.
0:28:25 > 0:28:28They've all been thought of before and it must be wrong.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31Nick Jenkins put the first black mark
0:28:31 > 0:28:34against the petite pencil business proposition.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37I sort of see the point, but I think it's a bit too narrow,
0:28:37 > 0:28:39so I'm afraid I'm out.
0:28:39 > 0:28:43And soon, three other Dragons also drew a line under the deal.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45It's not for me. I'm out.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49I'm not going to be investing, I'm afraid. I'm out.
0:28:49 > 0:28:53The 50,000 that you're asking for
0:28:53 > 0:28:57won't cover the stock, the marketing, the online.
0:28:57 > 0:28:58You probably need 500,000.
0:28:58 > 0:29:01So, on that basis, I'm out.
0:29:03 > 0:29:08He's right. It is going to take some money to get the brand out there.
0:29:08 > 0:29:09But the marketplace is huge.
0:29:09 > 0:29:12Children will always have to learn to write, and they always have
0:29:12 > 0:29:13to learn to write with pencils.
0:29:16 > 0:29:18But could Sarah Willingham see the potential market
0:29:18 > 0:29:22and put very small pencil to paper on a deal?
0:29:22 > 0:29:27Do you know what? I can't work out if this is completely bonkers
0:29:27 > 0:29:31or...there is a moment of brilliance where, actually,
0:29:31 > 0:29:36marketed right, are you going to get loads of mums
0:29:36 > 0:29:41buying lots of different size pens for different age kids?
0:29:41 > 0:29:45- This is the...all or nothing. - Yeah.
0:29:45 > 0:29:48And this is sort of, probably, the person you want, maybe...
0:29:48 > 0:29:50We did, yeah. I always thought...
0:29:50 > 0:29:53- Yeah, ideally.- Everyone wants Sarah.- Yeah.- She's got kids.
0:29:53 > 0:29:55And I can see mums buying it.
0:29:59 > 0:30:02But I just can't see it being mass market,
0:30:02 > 0:30:07unless there really is concrete evidence that kids
0:30:07 > 0:30:10are better off with a smaller pencil,
0:30:10 > 0:30:12and I just think it's too big a hurdle,
0:30:12 > 0:30:15so I'm afraid it's not an investment for me, so I'm out.
0:30:18 > 0:30:20- 'Thanks.- Good luck.- Thank you.'
0:30:20 > 0:30:23Do you have any regrets at all about going to the Den?
0:30:23 > 0:30:27- Too soon.- Yes.- Maybe too soon. - In the history of the company.
0:30:27 > 0:30:29If we'd had the evidence we have got now, about,
0:30:29 > 0:30:32you know...from universities,
0:30:32 > 0:30:34about how would this mathematically is correct...
0:30:34 > 0:30:36- Yes. - If we could have presented that...
0:30:36 > 0:30:38I'm still not sure,
0:30:38 > 0:30:40but I would have preferred to have been in that position.
0:30:40 > 0:30:42So, what has happened since the Den?
0:30:42 > 0:30:44Have you moved on with the product?
0:30:44 > 0:30:46Yeah, definitely. We've...
0:30:46 > 0:30:50We've launched in Dubai and Peru.
0:30:50 > 0:30:52- The two big markets! - New Zealand...
0:30:52 > 0:30:55- The two big pencil markets. - ..and we're in the UK.
0:30:55 > 0:30:59We are just signing off deals for South Africa.
0:30:59 > 0:31:02But, I have to say, I have genuine sympathy with you.
0:31:02 > 0:31:05I do think pencils are incorrectly designed for people's hands.
0:31:05 > 0:31:10I've actually got my own product range for the taller gentleman... here.
0:31:10 > 0:31:12I've got it...
0:31:12 > 0:31:13LAUGHTER It's literally perfect.
0:31:13 > 0:31:17So, listen, I'm deeply sympathetic with your plight.
0:31:17 > 0:31:19Surlender, Ross, very, very best of luck.
0:31:19 > 0:31:20Absolute pleasure to meet you as well.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22Thank you so much, thank you.
0:31:22 > 0:31:26That's too big, even in your hand. Length does matter.
0:31:26 > 0:31:27LAUGHTER
0:31:27 > 0:31:30Goodness me! Only time will tell if Ross and Surlender
0:31:30 > 0:31:35become the next entrepreneurs to slip through the Dragons' talons.
0:31:37 > 0:31:39Like these two classics from the Den archive,
0:31:39 > 0:31:43who proved that the Dragons don't always get it right.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45The Dragons initially played nicely
0:31:45 > 0:31:48when Linkee pitched their new board game.
0:31:48 > 0:31:51The aim of the game is to guess the common link
0:31:51 > 0:31:52between four answers.
0:31:52 > 0:31:55So, penguin, taxi and club - can you see a link?
0:31:55 > 0:31:58- No. - Very nice with a cup of tea?
0:31:58 > 0:31:59Penguin biscuit.
0:31:59 > 0:32:01- Linkee! - LAUGHTER
0:32:01 > 0:32:04But the fun ended when they started talking financials.
0:32:04 > 0:32:07What's your turnover so far this year?
0:32:07 > 0:32:08£2,500.
0:32:08 > 0:32:10And it was game over when they revealed
0:32:10 > 0:32:13they wanted to take their board game to the small screen.
0:32:13 > 0:32:15You are delusional if you think this will go on television,
0:32:15 > 0:32:17because the reality is
0:32:17 > 0:32:20it's got to be really, really something special.
0:32:20 > 0:32:21BUZZER
0:32:21 > 0:32:22Wrong answer, Mr Jones.
0:32:22 > 0:32:24It was made into a TV programme
0:32:24 > 0:32:27and it sold an awful lot of board games, too.
0:32:32 > 0:32:35Andy Needham and Dan Cludery offered the Dragons
0:32:35 > 0:32:37a stake in their online grocery site,
0:32:37 > 0:32:40selling food coming up to its sell-by date.
0:32:41 > 0:32:44We sell both clearance and regular products
0:32:44 > 0:32:47at significantly cheaper prices than the high street.
0:32:47 > 0:32:49Deborah had a taste for the business...
0:32:49 > 0:32:51There is so much I like about it.
0:32:51 > 0:32:53..but she didn't like it enough.
0:32:53 > 0:32:55But I'm sorry, I won't be investing. I'm out.
0:32:55 > 0:32:58Oh...what a waste.
0:33:00 > 0:33:02That's one you missed out on, Deborah.
0:33:05 > 0:33:07So, it appears the Dragons are fallible after all.
0:33:07 > 0:33:10But there is one Dragon who is perhaps more prepared
0:33:10 > 0:33:13to take a punt on the more...unusual investment opportunities
0:33:13 > 0:33:16and even break the odd product along the way.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21- Touker, sir.- Hi. - Pleasure to have you here.
0:33:21 > 0:33:23- My pleasure.- I'm going to say, amongst the Dragons,
0:33:23 > 0:33:25I'm going to call you the wild card.
0:33:25 > 0:33:29- Would you agree with that?- I'd say I'm a little bit wild card.
0:33:29 > 0:33:32If ever there is anything physical to be done in the Den,
0:33:32 > 0:33:34you tend to be the first up out of your seat.
0:33:36 > 0:33:38I know all about these garments, inside out.
0:33:38 > 0:33:40Let the expert have a look.
0:33:40 > 0:33:43Wow! 'Ey up, our kid!
0:33:43 > 0:33:45- Look at you! - LAUGHTER
0:33:45 > 0:33:48ROCK GUITAR SOLO
0:33:55 > 0:33:56LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE
0:33:56 > 0:33:58Let's go to bed...
0:33:58 > 0:34:00- LOUD CRACK - Whoa!
0:34:01 > 0:34:02What happened, there?
0:34:02 > 0:34:05- You broke the bed.- Oh...sorry!
0:34:09 > 0:34:12You've set up a number of very, very successful businesses.
0:34:12 > 0:34:14You are a very successful businessman.
0:34:14 > 0:34:17You are happy to appear to be a figure of fun in some way.
0:34:17 > 0:34:20That must work you, somehow.
0:34:20 > 0:34:22Does it make people underestimate you, maybe?
0:34:22 > 0:34:25Um...I think what it does...
0:34:26 > 0:34:29- It makes people feel like I'm a real person.- Mm-hm.
0:34:29 > 0:34:34I'm at their level, and it's easy to communicate with me.
0:34:34 > 0:34:38And is it also that you really enjoy the process of being in the Den?
0:34:38 > 0:34:39It looks like you do.
0:34:40 > 0:34:43- Well, I'm there. I might as well have fun with it.- Yeah.
0:34:43 > 0:34:46I'm giving away my money, so, on that basis,
0:34:46 > 0:34:49let's make the most of it.
0:34:50 > 0:34:53Hoping Touker Suleyman was entertained by his product -
0:34:53 > 0:34:54and didn't break it -
0:34:54 > 0:34:58was this sharp-suited and well-booted entrepreneur.
0:34:59 > 0:35:04Next up tonight, Dragons, from his home in Tunbridge Wells, Caner Veli!
0:35:04 > 0:35:05Hello, everyone.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10Liquiproof produces advanced nanotech coatings
0:35:10 > 0:35:12for almost any surface.
0:35:12 > 0:35:14We're best known for our innovative
0:35:14 > 0:35:16and award-winning footwear protection.
0:35:16 > 0:35:20My first impressions of Caner as he walked through the lift door -
0:35:20 > 0:35:23he looked like a clean-cut, credible young man.
0:35:23 > 0:35:27- His pitch was amazing. - Let me show you how amazing it is.
0:35:27 > 0:35:28Shoe under the tap.
0:35:30 > 0:35:32Poured cola over it.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36Put tomato sauce over it.
0:35:36 > 0:35:38- And the grand finale...- Together...
0:35:39 > 0:35:41..we can make Liquiproof
0:35:41 > 0:35:43a household name.
0:35:43 > 0:35:46DRAGONS CHUCKLE
0:35:46 > 0:35:48- Thank you.- That's brilliant.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50It was real theatre.
0:35:50 > 0:35:52I loved it.
0:35:53 > 0:35:56The young entrepreneur wanted £100,000 of Dragon cash
0:35:56 > 0:35:59and was only offering 5% of his business in return.
0:35:59 > 0:36:04That valued his business at...well, you do the maths, but a lot.
0:36:05 > 0:36:10I realised it's a common problem that Caner had just solved.
0:36:10 > 0:36:11After that demonstration,
0:36:11 > 0:36:15I had that tingle inside me and I wanted him to be good.
0:36:17 > 0:36:19- Caner Veli, right?- Merhaba.
0:36:19 > 0:36:21THEY SPEAK TURKISH
0:36:22 > 0:36:25- Are you Turkish? - My father's Turkish Cypriot.
0:36:25 > 0:36:29- Turkish Cypriot?- Yeah.- Oh. I'm Turkish Cypriot.
0:36:29 > 0:36:31Caner and Touker had bonded in Turkish,
0:36:31 > 0:36:34but it takes more than that to prise the cash out of a Dragon,
0:36:34 > 0:36:36otherwise we'd all be doing it.
0:36:36 > 0:36:39Now the fashion supremo wanted substantial proof
0:36:39 > 0:36:41of the waterproofing substance's substance.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44It might have been easier to have said that in Turkish.
0:36:46 > 0:36:47What patent to you have?
0:36:47 > 0:36:53I've partnered with the R&D lab that owns the patent to this,
0:36:53 > 0:36:56so I have sole exclusive rights.
0:36:56 > 0:36:58So this is not your technology.
0:36:58 > 0:37:02What happens if tomorrow they take this and go to somebody else
0:37:02 > 0:37:04that's going to really take it worldwide?
0:37:06 > 0:37:08Unless you've got the IP,
0:37:08 > 0:37:11everyone's just going to sit here and rip you apart.
0:37:11 > 0:37:13Have you got your contract here?
0:37:13 > 0:37:15So who would like to have a look at this first?
0:37:15 > 0:37:18Without owning the intellectual property on the product,
0:37:18 > 0:37:23Caner had to put all his faith in his licensing agreement.
0:37:23 > 0:37:25But surely that would be watertight.
0:37:25 > 0:37:28I mean, you wouldn't give it to the Dragons if it wasn't,
0:37:28 > 0:37:30would you?
0:37:30 > 0:37:33It's not a licensing agreement, it's a distribution agreement,
0:37:33 > 0:37:37really, that's giving you distribution in certain territories.
0:37:37 > 0:37:40Caner's contract was just gibberish.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42Did a lawyer write this?
0:37:42 > 0:37:45- I put the majority of that together personally.- OK.
0:37:45 > 0:37:50And I had it sort of glanced over by a family friend who doesn't...
0:37:50 > 0:37:53That's not their expertise.
0:37:53 > 0:37:55If you're going to ask for a two million valuation,
0:37:55 > 0:37:58spend a couple of grand on your contract.
0:37:58 > 0:37:59Lawyers exist for a reason.
0:37:59 > 0:38:02This is the only thing that you have, the only thing.
0:38:02 > 0:38:04I've read a lot of legal documents
0:38:04 > 0:38:06and I can sniff something bad when I see one.
0:38:06 > 0:38:11This isn't a business. Next time you do this, do it properly.
0:38:11 > 0:38:12I'm afraid I'm out.
0:38:14 > 0:38:17So Nick made his position abundantly clear,
0:38:17 > 0:38:19but Dragons aren't sheep.
0:38:19 > 0:38:22I'm sure the others wouldn't be influenced by him.
0:38:22 > 0:38:25- I'm going to say that I'm out. - I'm out.
0:38:25 > 0:38:27You don't really have a business. I'm out.
0:38:29 > 0:38:32When all the other Dragons were out,
0:38:32 > 0:38:37I realised I was the conductor and I had the floor to myself.
0:38:37 > 0:38:40I sell a lot of shirts to a lot of people
0:38:40 > 0:38:42in this country and worldwide.
0:38:42 > 0:38:45Suits, the same.
0:38:45 > 0:38:47Have you ever worked out what it would cost
0:38:47 > 0:38:50- to have this coated on a metre of fabric?- Yes.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53- What?- It would work out about 4p. - 4p?- Yeah.
0:38:53 > 0:38:55I found my moment to make my move.
0:38:56 > 0:38:58I'm going to make you an offer.
0:39:01 > 0:39:05I like the brand, I like Caner,
0:39:05 > 0:39:08but I also realised there's a lot of work to do.
0:39:08 > 0:39:13I'll give you all the money for 50%, but it has to be subject to
0:39:13 > 0:39:17sorting the contract out properly so that we're all secured.
0:39:17 > 0:39:2250% was me weighing up the amount of risk I was taking
0:39:22 > 0:39:24and I think it made it worthwhile.
0:39:27 > 0:39:28I think Caner probably realised
0:39:28 > 0:39:31that he didn't have that much to bargain with.
0:39:31 > 0:39:33Actually, what he really had was some enthusiasm
0:39:33 > 0:39:35and probably a distribution agreement.
0:39:35 > 0:39:40But would Caner be willing to give away 50% of his company,
0:39:40 > 0:39:42ten times his original offer?
0:39:46 > 0:39:49- Let's do this.- Great, OK. - Well done.- Great.
0:39:49 > 0:39:51Am I worth 50%?
0:39:51 > 0:39:53Of course I'm worth 50%!
0:39:53 > 0:39:54That's a lot of Touker time.
0:39:57 > 0:40:00Well, it's a year and a half in normal non-Touker time since Caner
0:40:00 > 0:40:03and his new business partner shook hands in the Den.
0:40:07 > 0:40:10But the reality of the business world
0:40:10 > 0:40:12is that in the cold, cruel light of day,
0:40:12 > 0:40:14due diligence can see deals fall through.
0:40:16 > 0:40:19Remember, Touker said he would only sign on the dotted line
0:40:19 > 0:40:21if the contract got sorted.
0:40:24 > 0:40:28- Hey, Caner.- Hi. How are you doing? - Very, very nice to meet you.
0:40:28 > 0:40:30Caner has opened a shop
0:40:30 > 0:40:32where customers can get their clothes waterproofed,
0:40:32 > 0:40:35hang out with like-minded entrepreneurial types
0:40:35 > 0:40:40and, it seems, park their motorbikes in the middle of the carpet.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42This is essentially like a teenage boy's perfect office.
0:40:42 > 0:40:44But is this just kids' stuff,
0:40:44 > 0:40:46or is Caner playing with the grown-ups now
0:40:46 > 0:40:48and is Touker actually involved?
0:40:50 > 0:40:51This is glamorous shop front,
0:40:51 > 0:40:53but where's the bustling corporate headquarters?
0:40:53 > 0:40:57- Ah, let me take you through the secret door.- A secret door?
0:40:57 > 0:40:59This place gets better and better.
0:40:59 > 0:41:01Caner... Oh, dude, look at that.
0:41:04 > 0:41:06The last we saw at the end of the Den, I think Touker wanted to
0:41:06 > 0:41:09invest but he's saying, "Oh, I don't know about the contracts and stuff,"
0:41:09 > 0:41:11but look - you have an office.
0:41:11 > 0:41:13There's people here, there's people everywhere,
0:41:13 > 0:41:15so something went right.
0:41:15 > 0:41:18So can you tell us - are you and Touker in business?
0:41:18 > 0:41:22- We are.- You are? That's good news. - We got there eventually.- Excellent.
0:41:22 > 0:41:25I didn't realise how long the due diligence would have taken,
0:41:25 > 0:41:28but I went off straight away, got the contract sorted,
0:41:28 > 0:41:30got that tightened up, the agreement,
0:41:30 > 0:41:33and I was conscious that I had to provide value,
0:41:33 > 0:41:37- deliver on what I said in the Den. - And what are the big plans now?
0:41:37 > 0:41:40OK, we're working to integrate the technology
0:41:40 > 0:41:42into the manufacturing process
0:41:42 > 0:41:44of various garments of clothing, shirts.
0:41:44 > 0:41:48- So you get shirts that are already Liquiproofed?- Yes, that's it.
0:41:48 > 0:41:49- That's clever.- Ah!
0:41:49 > 0:41:51That's what you talked about in the Den.
0:41:51 > 0:41:54- That's where you could see dollar signs in Touker's eyes?- Yeah.
0:41:54 > 0:41:58I am delighted to be in business with Caner.
0:41:58 > 0:42:02He is an entrepreneur to heart.
0:42:02 > 0:42:06We're not competitive - I just set the bar for him,
0:42:06 > 0:42:08so he can see where he's going.
0:42:08 > 0:42:11I'm very confident in Caner
0:42:11 > 0:42:14and I'm very confident in the future of the business.
0:42:17 > 0:42:21We all know that in their chairs, the Dragons are a formidable,
0:42:21 > 0:42:22menacing presence,
0:42:22 > 0:42:26but there's another presence in the Den, just as menacing,
0:42:26 > 0:42:27just as formidable,
0:42:27 > 0:42:30but slightly less argumentative. It's more of...
0:42:31 > 0:42:33..a listener.
0:42:33 > 0:42:37- You can go to the wall, if you want. - The famous wall?- The famous wall.
0:42:37 > 0:42:38OK, thank you.
0:42:38 > 0:42:42- Can we have a few minutes to have a chat?- Go and talk to the wall.
0:42:42 > 0:42:44- It's the wise wall.- I've seen.
0:42:44 > 0:42:47When an entrepreneur goes to the back wall,
0:42:47 > 0:42:52that's the only time they're in control of the whole Den.
0:42:52 > 0:42:54Right, show time, Johnny.
0:42:54 > 0:42:55What do you think, buddy?
0:42:55 > 0:42:58I don't feel any pressure. I think the pressure is all on them.
0:42:58 > 0:43:01See, when they go to the back of the room, I like having a little chat.
0:43:01 > 0:43:05Sarah always gives me a little nudge.
0:43:05 > 0:43:08(There's no chance he'll accept 20 in a million years, no way.)
0:43:08 > 0:43:11We always want to know, we always try and guess. I can't wait.
0:43:11 > 0:43:13(I would have gone for 40.)
0:43:13 > 0:43:17At that moment, there is definitely a switch in power.
0:43:20 > 0:43:22There's definitely a moment of tension there.
0:43:24 > 0:43:27INDISTINCT WHISPERING
0:43:32 > 0:43:35If the entrepreneur needs to think about it for more than 30 seconds,
0:43:35 > 0:43:37I'm not sure I want to be in.
0:43:39 > 0:43:43I call the wall a wise wall, but every now and then,
0:43:43 > 0:43:44the wall gets it wrong.
0:43:46 > 0:43:49It's not a decision we can make now.
0:43:49 > 0:43:51We need to have a few drinks with you.
0:43:51 > 0:43:53Seriously, Yann, are you for real?
0:43:54 > 0:43:59I think you made a big mistake by not choosing me.
0:43:59 > 0:44:00He always thinks that.
0:44:01 > 0:44:03Mind the trap door.
0:44:05 > 0:44:08- Here we go. - But before you get to the wall,
0:44:08 > 0:44:09you have to clinch a deal.
0:44:13 > 0:44:17Tame you, got to tame you, got to tame you, got to tame you.
0:44:17 > 0:44:20When Nick Coleman and Andy Allen walked in with their snack business,
0:44:20 > 0:44:22they hoped to add a certain special someone
0:44:22 > 0:44:25to their blossoming business bromance.
0:44:25 > 0:44:27- Ready?- Ready.
0:44:27 > 0:44:28Hello, Dragons.
0:44:28 > 0:44:30I'm Nick and I'm here today with my business partner
0:44:30 > 0:44:33- and marketing director Andy.- Hello.
0:44:33 > 0:44:36We are looking for a £70,000 investment
0:44:36 > 0:44:38for a 10% stake of our business,
0:44:38 > 0:44:40The Snaffling Pig.
0:44:40 > 0:44:43When the lift doors opened and the guys from Snaffling Pig came in
0:44:43 > 0:44:46and pulled back the curtains for what they would probably call
0:44:46 > 0:44:47the "pig reveal",
0:44:47 > 0:44:49- I was excited. - DRUMROLL
0:44:49 > 0:44:51We present to you...
0:44:54 > 0:44:55..the pork scratching.
0:44:56 > 0:44:58DRAGONS CHUCKLE
0:44:58 > 0:45:03For over 250 years, this cheeky indulgence of a snack
0:45:03 > 0:45:05has been loved by so very many people,
0:45:05 > 0:45:08but has remained completely and utterly unchanged,
0:45:08 > 0:45:12so we set out two years ago to take this little piggy to markets
0:45:12 > 0:45:14he's never been before.
0:45:14 > 0:45:16To make that pigging vision a reality...
0:45:16 > 0:45:19They were doing piggy play on words and pig puns
0:45:19 > 0:45:21and I didn't like that at all.
0:45:21 > 0:45:23It turns out he's quite a versatile swine.
0:45:23 > 0:45:26Let's make the piggin' magic happen. Thank you.
0:45:26 > 0:45:29Puns in the Den? That's my job.
0:45:29 > 0:45:32Actually, I think contractually it's my job. Let me check.
0:45:32 > 0:45:35PAPERS SHUFFLING Yes, it is.
0:45:35 > 0:45:38But pig puns aside, the Dragons had heard the boys talk the talk.
0:45:38 > 0:45:41Now Nick wanted to find out if they could pork the pork.
0:45:42 > 0:45:45Oh, sorry, I'm turning into Peter Jones.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48Basically, he just wanted to know about the business.
0:45:51 > 0:45:55So tell me, it sounds like you had an amazing first year.
0:45:55 > 0:45:58- Yes, absolutely. - So talk me through those numbers.
0:45:58 > 0:46:01Year one, which will end in May 2017,
0:46:01 > 0:46:04we have projected 2.2 million with a gross of 1.1 million
0:46:04 > 0:46:06and a net of 165,000.
0:46:08 > 0:46:11Impressive projections and Deborah Meaden
0:46:11 > 0:46:13looked as if she might be about to bite.
0:46:13 > 0:46:18But hang on - Sarah Willingham was about to add an early twist
0:46:18 > 0:46:20to this curly tale.
0:46:20 > 0:46:22Nick, Andy, pork scratchings make me gag,
0:46:22 > 0:46:24I don't know where else to go other than that.
0:46:24 > 0:46:26I just can't eat them,
0:46:26 > 0:46:29so I'm really sorry, I can't, I'm not going to invest, I'm out.
0:46:31 > 0:46:34And it wasn't to the other Dragons' taste either.
0:46:34 > 0:46:35I won't be investing, I'm out.
0:46:35 > 0:46:37I'm out.
0:46:37 > 0:46:40Pigs might fly, but I can't see you're going to get there,
0:46:40 > 0:46:42so I'm going to say that I'm out.
0:46:44 > 0:46:45I was quite excited.
0:46:45 > 0:46:49I could see it had a really good potential to the business
0:46:49 > 0:46:51and I don't particularly want to have any competition or have
0:46:51 > 0:46:54to fight over it, so I was quite pleased when they dropped out.
0:46:54 > 0:46:56Look, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:46:58 > 0:47:00I'm going to make you an offer for all of the money,
0:47:00 > 0:47:04but I would want 20% of the business
0:47:04 > 0:47:06and that would make it worthwhile.
0:47:06 > 0:47:08Thank you very much for the offer.
0:47:08 > 0:47:10- Can we go have a chat? - Go and have a chat.- Thank you.
0:47:10 > 0:47:12I think this will be the shortest chat in history.
0:47:12 > 0:47:13THEY CONFER
0:47:13 > 0:47:16There was never a more token talk to the wall
0:47:16 > 0:47:18ever seen before in the Den.
0:47:18 > 0:47:21I mean, come on, you've got Mr Moonpig with scratchings.
0:47:21 > 0:47:23They're made for each other.
0:47:23 > 0:47:25I wanted the deal and I was pretty confident I was going to get it.
0:47:25 > 0:47:27The only question was whether
0:47:27 > 0:47:29they were going to fight back on the terms,
0:47:29 > 0:47:33- which they did.- We really believe in where this product's going to go,
0:47:33 > 0:47:36but what we'd like to do is put our money where our mouth is.
0:47:36 > 0:47:38- So what we'd like to do is offer you the 20% today.- Yep.
0:47:38 > 0:47:41But we'd like the chance to be able to buy back your shares
0:47:41 > 0:47:42at today's market rates
0:47:42 > 0:47:45in 18 months' time once we hit our sales and our profit projections
0:47:45 > 0:47:48- back to ten.- Back to ten?- Yes.
0:47:50 > 0:47:52In 18 months?
0:47:52 > 0:47:53- 18 months.- 18 months. - Then it's a deal.
0:47:53 > 0:47:56- Yes!- The pigs have merged, here we go.
0:47:57 > 0:47:59- Excellent, thank you. - I was quite happy to accept that,
0:47:59 > 0:48:03because if you give someone a limited timeframe to buy back
0:48:03 > 0:48:04some of their shares,
0:48:04 > 0:48:07it creates quite a lot of pressure on them to perform.
0:48:08 > 0:48:11- Thank you.- DEBORAH:- Fantastic.- Yes!
0:48:11 > 0:48:13You're two chuffed little piglets, aren't you?
0:48:13 > 0:48:17- LAUGHTER - This little piggy has gone to market.
0:48:17 > 0:48:19They're great guys, they know what they're doing
0:48:19 > 0:48:21and it's a good business.
0:48:21 > 0:48:24I certainly don't think it's one of the "rasher" investments
0:48:24 > 0:48:26in my "porkfolio".
0:48:26 > 0:48:28Oh, Nick, you let yourself down there.
0:48:31 > 0:48:34Five months on and the pig skin kingpins
0:48:34 > 0:48:35are still very much in business
0:48:35 > 0:48:39with their Moonpig patron and their plans to take over the snack world
0:48:39 > 0:48:41in full operation.
0:48:41 > 0:48:43So this is where we do all of our packing and send out parcels
0:48:43 > 0:48:45all across the country.
0:48:45 > 0:48:47All the magic happens in this one little place.
0:48:47 > 0:48:50Except our office - we have no desk.
0:48:50 > 0:48:52We spent all the money on the warehouse.
0:48:54 > 0:48:57Just two days ago, they moved into this new warehouse.
0:48:57 > 0:48:59It's three times bigger than their last one
0:48:59 > 0:49:01and was masterminded by Nick Jenkins himself.
0:49:03 > 0:49:05So one of the things we've been able to do is look at their warehousing
0:49:05 > 0:49:07and restructure that.
0:49:07 > 0:49:10It's now in 1,200 pubs across the UK
0:49:10 > 0:49:14and we're talking to various chains about rolling it out next year.
0:49:14 > 0:49:17I think this business is going to be a great success.
0:49:17 > 0:49:20So their Dragon huffed and puffed
0:49:20 > 0:49:21and the cash rolled in.
0:49:23 > 0:49:26But let's remind ourselves of two businesses where it didn't.
0:49:26 > 0:49:28They left the Den empty-handed.
0:49:29 > 0:49:33The Dragons found Marco Hajikypri's valuation hard to swallow
0:49:33 > 0:49:36when he presented them with his bespoke fitness food concept.
0:49:38 > 0:49:41Where do you get that this is worth £2.5 million?
0:49:41 > 0:49:44If I gave you £2.5 million to buy this brand off you today...
0:49:44 > 0:49:46I wouldn't sell it.
0:49:46 > 0:49:47You'd be mad.
0:49:47 > 0:49:48I wouldn't be mad.
0:49:48 > 0:49:51- Surely you'd go and sit on a beach and smoke your cigar?- No way.
0:49:51 > 0:49:54That's not enough for me to smoke cigars.
0:49:54 > 0:49:56- I need 20 million minimum.- What?!
0:49:57 > 0:49:59Well, he still hasn't got to that beach,
0:49:59 > 0:50:02but his business hasn't stopped delivering since.
0:50:07 > 0:50:10The Dragons couldn't believe their eyes or their ears
0:50:10 > 0:50:12when Yann Morvan and Richard Lee
0:50:12 > 0:50:15pitched their air drumming percussion kit.
0:50:15 > 0:50:18DRUMBEAT, LAUGHTER
0:50:18 > 0:50:20Despite offers from two Dragons,
0:50:20 > 0:50:24others wanted to drum home just how much they didn't like it.
0:50:24 > 0:50:26- It's a gimmick.- No, it's not!
0:50:26 > 0:50:27What is it, then?
0:50:27 > 0:50:29It's a musical instrument.
0:50:29 > 0:50:31How can you call a musical instrument a gimmick?
0:50:31 > 0:50:33But, drumroll, please.
0:50:33 > 0:50:35DRUMROLL
0:50:40 > 0:50:43Whilst a gimmick may not go down well in the Den,
0:50:43 > 0:50:45DIY products often do.
0:50:49 > 0:50:51- Good luck.- Yeah.
0:50:51 > 0:50:55The final entrepreneurs to reflect on their Den encounter
0:50:55 > 0:50:56are Martin Chard and Jenny David.
0:50:56 > 0:50:58When they entered the Den,
0:50:58 > 0:51:01they had no idea that their lives were about to change forever.
0:51:01 > 0:51:04Everyday things I tend to stumble a lot on,
0:51:04 > 0:51:06simple things that everybody can do,
0:51:06 > 0:51:09so I've spent my whole life feeling stupid.
0:51:09 > 0:51:11This is it, this is what you want.
0:51:11 > 0:51:13But did they go from pitch to rich?
0:51:14 > 0:51:17Martin and Jenny, thank you so much for coming and joining us here.
0:51:17 > 0:51:22I think your pitch was my favourite pitch of the entire last series.
0:51:22 > 0:51:25We'll see why in a moment, but shall we take a little look?
0:51:25 > 0:51:26- Thank you, yeah.- Excellent.
0:51:33 > 0:51:37I describe myself as dyslexic with a sprinkle of Asperger's.
0:51:37 > 0:51:39People often say I think outside the box -
0:51:39 > 0:51:42the truth is, I never had the box in the first place.
0:51:44 > 0:51:45People at home are going,
0:51:45 > 0:51:48"Please be good, please be good," after that start.
0:51:48 > 0:51:51- We were so nervous at that point. - Oh, my goodness.
0:51:51 > 0:51:53Like jumping out of a plane.
0:51:53 > 0:51:57I've been working for many years now as a building maintenance engineer
0:51:57 > 0:51:59and often have to put up lots of shelves,
0:51:59 > 0:52:01fixtures and fittings throughout the day
0:52:01 > 0:52:03and found that it could be quite frustrating
0:52:03 > 0:52:05marking where to drill the hole positions.
0:52:09 > 0:52:14This is the Marxman. You simply hold the bracket where you want to,
0:52:14 > 0:52:16you simply push it in the hole...
0:52:18 > 0:52:22..and it will spray a burst of green chalk showing you where to drill.
0:52:27 > 0:52:29Martin had survived the product demonstration,
0:52:29 > 0:52:34but would he survive a textbook Den grilling from Peter Jones?
0:52:35 > 0:52:38- Why wouldn't you just use a Sharpie? - Oh, Peter.
0:52:41 > 0:52:45- Because it doesn't...- It dries out and it clogs and it doesn't last.
0:52:45 > 0:52:49Is every plumber going to want to spend £10
0:52:49 > 0:52:52on something where it's cost them 20p?
0:52:53 > 0:52:54Yes.
0:52:54 > 0:52:57You've really got to like the invention, haven't you, then?
0:52:57 > 0:52:59No, no, I completely disagree,
0:52:59 > 0:53:03because we sell in Wickes roughly 57 a day.
0:53:03 > 0:53:06You think that's good?
0:53:06 > 0:53:08I think that's excellent.
0:53:09 > 0:53:12That took a lot of guts from both of you.
0:53:12 > 0:53:15Yeah, yeah, it did. We're not normally gutsy people,
0:53:15 > 0:53:17but we know the product well.
0:53:17 > 0:53:19Also, it's the dream.
0:53:19 > 0:53:21We've worked really hard to get this far
0:53:21 > 0:53:24to be told that it's a Sharpie - it's definitely not a Sharpie.
0:53:26 > 0:53:29So you sold them 13,000. At how much?
0:53:29 > 0:53:32The recommended retail price is £9.95.
0:53:34 > 0:53:37- And what was your investment to get to here so far?- About 100 grand.
0:53:37 > 0:53:40- How much?!- About 150-ish. - 100,000?- Yes.- Yeah.
0:53:43 > 0:53:46You put your whole life behind this?
0:53:49 > 0:53:50- Yes.- Yeah.
0:53:53 > 0:53:55So this is the point where it could all go wrong.
0:53:55 > 0:53:57We did think it might go wrong at this point.
0:53:57 > 0:53:59Is that what you think in your head? You're thinking,
0:53:59 > 0:54:02- "Oh, man, we're going to be one of those pitches."- Yes.
0:54:02 > 0:54:04It is too expensive at the moment.
0:54:04 > 0:54:06You don't want people to think.
0:54:06 > 0:54:10You want people to be at that till thinking, "Oh, that's good."
0:54:10 > 0:54:13I certainly think we could get that made at a much better price.
0:54:13 > 0:54:15Watching at home, you're suddenly thinking,
0:54:15 > 0:54:17"Oh! WE can, can we, Deborah?"
0:54:17 > 0:54:21How would you feel about somebody running the business for you
0:54:21 > 0:54:24with you developing product? How would you feel about that?
0:54:24 > 0:54:25That would be our dream.
0:54:27 > 0:54:28Because I like it.
0:54:29 > 0:54:30Good.
0:54:32 > 0:54:34I'm going to make you an offer.
0:54:36 > 0:54:39I'm going to offer you all of the money.
0:54:41 > 0:54:42I want 30% of the business,
0:54:42 > 0:54:46because I'm basically going to do the business bit for you,
0:54:46 > 0:54:48so that's my offer to you.
0:54:49 > 0:54:51HE CHUCKLES
0:54:51 > 0:54:53- You could have blown me away at that point.- Really?
0:54:53 > 0:54:56- Cos that turned round quite quickly. - Yeah, it really did.
0:54:56 > 0:54:58It was on a dime.
0:54:58 > 0:55:02The heart now is definitely starting to skip a little bit.
0:55:02 > 0:55:05Now all I'm thinking is, "Don't spoil it."
0:55:05 > 0:55:08The only spoiling to be done was from the other Dragons...
0:55:08 > 0:55:10I'm going to match Deborah's offer.
0:55:12 > 0:55:16- Thank you.- ..spoiling for a fight to get their hands on the product.
0:55:16 > 0:55:20I'm very willing to make you an offer
0:55:20 > 0:55:22for half the money for 15%.
0:55:22 > 0:55:24I can't not make you an offer.
0:55:25 > 0:55:28Half of the money with another Dragon.
0:55:28 > 0:55:30So four Dragons in.
0:55:30 > 0:55:33Were we about to see that rarest of things,
0:55:33 > 0:55:35the full house?
0:55:35 > 0:55:37Or the full Den, to be precise.
0:55:37 > 0:55:39Suddenly you've got four of them.
0:55:39 > 0:55:43- Yeah.- It was incredible.- It is incredible.- More than we could...
0:55:43 > 0:55:45- It's what you dreamed of.- Yeah.
0:55:45 > 0:55:47Obviously, the only other one left is Peter Jones
0:55:47 > 0:55:49and for him to make an offer after what he said,
0:55:49 > 0:55:51surely he wouldn't have...
0:55:51 > 0:55:56Surely he wouldn't have the brass balls to make you an offer.
0:55:56 > 0:55:58Surely Peter wouldn't.
0:56:00 > 0:56:02You've done well, haven't you?
0:56:02 > 0:56:03- It seems so.- Yeah.
0:56:05 > 0:56:07- I liked him then.- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:56:09 > 0:56:12So I'm going to offer you all of the money as well...
0:56:18 > 0:56:21..but I'm only going to ask for 25%.
0:56:21 > 0:56:24- Oh, Peter!- Mm-hm!
0:56:27 > 0:56:29We now need to talk to the wall.
0:56:30 > 0:56:33He's undercut all the others and now you've got a choice to make.
0:56:33 > 0:56:34- Yes.- Yep.
0:56:34 > 0:56:36Yes.
0:56:36 > 0:56:37Got our dream.
0:56:43 > 0:56:44Um...
0:56:46 > 0:56:48..Deborah, we'd very much like to accept your offer.
0:56:48 > 0:56:51- Yes!- Whoa!- Oh, I'm so pleased!
0:56:51 > 0:56:54I wanted to jump up and down at that point.
0:56:54 > 0:56:56- The right decision, in my opinion. - Yeah.- Yeah.
0:56:56 > 0:57:00I'm so pleased because I'm sitting there trying not to look excited,
0:57:00 > 0:57:03cos I don't want to tell them how excited I am.
0:57:03 > 0:57:06- I wanted to hug her at that point. - Aww!
0:57:06 > 0:57:07Brilliant.
0:57:11 > 0:57:13Oh, my God!
0:57:13 > 0:57:15Here it goes.
0:57:16 > 0:57:18You said at the beginning that you wanted to go in there
0:57:18 > 0:57:21because you wanted to feel proud of yourself,
0:57:21 > 0:57:22to look yourself in the mirror
0:57:22 > 0:57:24and I would suggest you should be proud of yourself.
0:57:24 > 0:57:27Has that happened? Can you look yourself in the mirror now?
0:57:27 > 0:57:32Definitely. I definitely feel proud of this, I feel proud of us.
0:57:32 > 0:57:34Yeah, the family feel proud. Just lovely, yeah.
0:57:34 > 0:57:36It really has made a nice change.
0:57:36 > 0:57:39- Listen, it's been such a pleasure to meet you both.- Thank you.
0:57:39 > 0:57:42Congratulations, it's just such a wonderful pitch and I wish you
0:57:42 > 0:57:45- nothing but luck in the future. - Thank you very much.- Thank you.
0:57:58 > 0:57:59So, there we have it.
0:57:59 > 0:58:01Now, as this is the BBC,
0:58:01 > 0:58:03we're going to have to pretend that we've learned something,
0:58:03 > 0:58:06so what have we learned?
0:58:06 > 0:58:08Well, walls really do have ears,
0:58:08 > 0:58:09pig products can fly,
0:58:09 > 0:58:11and you can make a small fortune
0:58:11 > 0:58:13taping a loo brush to the end of a plastic bottle.
0:58:13 > 0:58:14Of course!
0:58:14 > 0:58:17All valuable lessons, but we've also learned
0:58:17 > 0:58:19that if you've got a good idea,
0:58:19 > 0:58:22you back it up with hard work and with passion,
0:58:22 > 0:58:26the Dragons might just invest and take you from pitch to rich.