0:00:25 > 0:00:29These are the Dragons, five of Britain's wealthiest
0:00:29 > 0:00:32and most enterprising business leaders.
0:00:32 > 0:00:36They're about to make or break the dreams of dozens
0:00:36 > 0:00:37of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:39 > 0:00:44If you'd have invented baked beans, you wouldn't have sold them.
0:00:44 > 0:00:46It's great to be passionate about your business,
0:00:46 > 0:00:48but you also have to be very honest.
0:00:48 > 0:00:51How difficult was it to design a piece of cardboard with holes in it?
0:00:51 > 0:00:52I was about to say,
0:00:52 > 0:00:54"So on that basis I won't be making you an offer,"
0:00:54 > 0:00:56but I actually think you're very good.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05The multimillionaire investors have each built up
0:01:05 > 0:01:07their fortunes from scratch.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13Retail magnet, Theo Paphitis.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18Hotel and health club owner, Duncan Bannatyne.
0:01:18 > 0:01:20Leisure industry expert, Deborah Meaden.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Queen of logistics, Hilary Devey.
0:01:26 > 0:01:28And telecoms giant, Peter Jones.
0:01:29 > 0:01:33The Dragons have the credentials, the contacts, the commitment
0:01:33 > 0:01:35and the cash ready to invest,
0:01:35 > 0:01:38but only in the right business.
0:01:38 > 0:01:40Will any of these hopeful entrepreneurs
0:01:40 > 0:01:42walk away with their money?
0:01:51 > 0:01:54Welcome to the Dragons' Den.
0:01:54 > 0:01:57Now, it's a difficult time for entrepreneurs.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01So often they need cash to get their businesses off the ground,
0:02:01 > 0:02:03but banks are not lending like they used to,
0:02:03 > 0:02:07and friends and family are less likely to have cash to spare.
0:02:07 > 0:02:10The good news is the Den remains open for business,
0:02:10 > 0:02:13and already we've seen the Dragons are ready to invest -
0:02:13 > 0:02:16but only if the pitch is perfect and the product is right.
0:02:16 > 0:02:20Our first entrepreneurs, Emma Jones and Mark Ferguson,
0:02:20 > 0:02:21came up with their idea
0:02:21 > 0:02:24while relaxing on a skiing holiday in the Alps.
0:02:24 > 0:02:26Let's see what the Dragons make of it.
0:02:54 > 0:02:56PHONE RINGS
0:02:56 > 0:02:59Gosh, I do apologise. I thought I'd turned my telephone off.
0:02:59 > 0:03:00I am so sorry.
0:03:02 > 0:03:05How annoying's that? And how many times have we seen that happen?
0:03:05 > 0:03:08We all know somebody who drops and loses phones.
0:03:08 > 0:03:12However, Emma, if you'd had one of these on your phone,
0:03:12 > 0:03:14that wouldn't have happened.
0:03:17 > 0:03:19Hi, my name's Mark Ferguson.
0:03:19 > 0:03:20And my name is Emma Jones.
0:03:20 > 0:03:24We're here to ask for a £70,000 investment
0:03:24 > 0:03:28in return for a 10% equity in myBunjee.
0:03:28 > 0:03:33It slips over the top of any mobile phone, gripping the phone,
0:03:33 > 0:03:36ensuring the safety of it.
0:03:36 > 0:03:38You simply clip it into your handbag,
0:03:38 > 0:03:41onto your trousers or into your jacket.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44Since launching, we've sold over 90,000 products worldwide.
0:03:44 > 0:03:47We'd like to give out some samples, if we may,
0:03:47 > 0:03:51so you can have a little look at it and maybe a little play.
0:03:51 > 0:03:54And we'll be happy to answer any of your questions.
0:03:54 > 0:03:55- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03A well executed pitch from the Chester-based couple,
0:04:03 > 0:04:05Mark Ferguson and Emma Jones.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08With over 6 billion mobile phones in the world, they're hoping
0:04:08 > 0:04:11their invention will help them cash in on
0:04:11 > 0:04:12the accompanying accessory market.
0:04:12 > 0:04:17They need £70,000 to kick-start their global plans
0:04:17 > 0:04:19in return for a 10% stake.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22Hilary Devey looks intrigued.
0:04:24 > 0:04:28You say you've sold 90,000 to date.
0:04:28 > 0:04:29Correct.
0:04:29 > 0:04:30At what price?
0:04:30 > 0:04:33We have distributors now in 13 countries,
0:04:33 > 0:04:34so the price on that varies.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36You've got the prices on the...
0:04:36 > 0:04:39We sell a Bunjee, retail price, at 6.95.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43Wholesale, we'll sell at 2.50-ish.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46And these can adapt to any phone, can they?
0:04:46 > 0:04:47They'll fit any phone.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50The new smartphones it'll fit, the old Nokias.
0:04:50 > 0:04:51Who designed this?
0:04:51 > 0:04:54- We designed it, actually. - Both of you?- Yes, yes.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56Presumably that's not patentable, is it?
0:04:56 > 0:04:58Well, patent's pending.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00It's patent pending. We're 14 months into a patent.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03- The searches are being done at the moment...- Right.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07Can you just tell me a bit about yourselves?
0:05:07 > 0:05:09My background is a PA.
0:05:09 > 0:05:12I used to work in London as a PA, I used to work for
0:05:12 > 0:05:14Susannah and Trinny and for the marketing director
0:05:14 > 0:05:17of The Times newspaper, organising their busy lives.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20What about you? What did you do before, Mark?
0:05:20 > 0:05:23I'm a retired headmaster.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27- I was a headmaster in a 365-day... - You don't look like a headmaster.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30- A lot of people say that... - Far too friendly to be a headmaster.
0:05:30 > 0:05:31..especially the children.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34It was a 365-day residential school for autistic children
0:05:34 > 0:05:36with extreme challenging behaviour.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38Oh, bless you.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41I miss it terribly. Miss the kids, miss the staff.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44Don't miss the regulators and the paperwork, but there we go.
0:05:46 > 0:05:48Charm and calm in the Den,
0:05:48 > 0:05:51it's a good start for the first-time entrepreneurs.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54But do they have the numbers to match?
0:05:54 > 0:05:56Duncan Bannatyne wants to know.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01I want to take you back to the 90,000 you sold.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03What was the revenue you achieved?
0:06:03 > 0:06:05Can I give you the revenue from December,
0:06:05 > 0:06:07which was the end of the financial year?
0:06:07 > 0:06:08We're all very new to this.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11If you've come in saying you sold 90,000,
0:06:11 > 0:06:13you must know the revenue for those 90,000.
0:06:13 > 0:06:15So unless you're hiding it...
0:06:15 > 0:06:16No, we're not hiding anything.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19I can tell you to the end of December,
0:06:19 > 0:06:23we sold 76,000 units, with a turnover of £115,000,
0:06:23 > 0:06:27with a gross profit of £42,000
0:06:27 > 0:06:30and a net profit of £16,000.
0:06:30 > 0:06:34- So you're making a profit.- In the first year. We're very proud of it.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37Yep. Making a profit, you're turning over a business.
0:06:37 > 0:06:39What's you projected profit for this year?
0:06:39 > 0:06:43We expect to sell 250,000 units
0:06:43 > 0:06:47with a £800,000 turnover,
0:06:47 > 0:06:52which should give us £566,000 gross profit,
0:06:52 > 0:06:54with a net profit of £506,000.
0:06:56 > 0:06:58So why are you here today?
0:06:58 > 0:07:01In short, we would like to use
0:07:01 > 0:07:04your expertise, your contacts,
0:07:04 > 0:07:08your money, your investment to take us at speed to market
0:07:08 > 0:07:10and take us to the next level.
0:07:12 > 0:07:14- PETER:- Can I ask a question, Mark, Emma?
0:07:14 > 0:07:17You mentioned distributors that are selling the product?
0:07:17 > 0:07:18How many of them?
0:07:18 > 0:07:21We've got 12 at the moment, one pending to be agreed.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24Our first distributor actually was from Australia.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26And we're just talking to Russia at the moment.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28How many have you got in the UK?
0:07:28 > 0:07:29We haven't got anybody in the UK.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32I do the distribution in the UK at the moment, and we don't
0:07:32 > 0:07:35have a chain in the UK, which is what we're very much looking for.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38So, the high-street retailers, to be on board with them
0:07:38 > 0:07:39would be absolutely fantastic.
0:07:39 > 0:07:41OK, so all your distributors are people
0:07:41 > 0:07:44- that sell the product overseas? - Correct. Yes.
0:07:46 > 0:07:48- You mentioned patent?- Yeah.
0:07:48 > 0:07:51What makes you think that this is patentable?
0:07:51 > 0:07:53Obviously, the lead is something that's available.
0:07:53 > 0:07:55We've all seen those leads before.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58But actually the concept of what it does in gripping your phone...
0:07:58 > 0:08:00The reason why I say it is because there's
0:08:00 > 0:08:02a product out there that's almost identical to this.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04It's attached to the cover of the phone
0:08:04 > 0:08:06and I know that, cos I sell it.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08But does it fit all phones, Peter?
0:08:08 > 0:08:11- It fits any modern smartphone. - Right.
0:08:11 > 0:08:12OK.
0:08:15 > 0:08:17I actually think yours is better.
0:08:17 > 0:08:19- Thank you very much.- Thank you.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24Praise indeed from the industry expert.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27But Mark and Emma have yet to receive an offer.
0:08:27 > 0:08:31Can Deborah Meaden find a reason to invest?
0:08:32 > 0:08:34So when it went to Australia,
0:08:34 > 0:08:37because you found yourself an Australian distributor.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40- She found us. - She found you, even better.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43- How many has she sold? - She has just placed another order.
0:08:43 > 0:08:47She's sold 20,000, I believe, to date.
0:08:47 > 0:08:49OK, so take another country. America.
0:08:49 > 0:08:51Tell me the story in America?
0:08:51 > 0:08:54I'm sure you're aware of a chain of retailers in America called
0:08:54 > 0:08:57The Container Store, who actually gave us our first order in America,
0:08:57 > 0:08:59which was fantastic.
0:08:59 > 0:09:02And they sold, in three months, they sold 20,000 products.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04And they've just reordered from us.
0:09:04 > 0:09:06OK, so you've got all this going on in the world out there,
0:09:06 > 0:09:08- but in your own backyard...- Yes.
0:09:08 > 0:09:12I'm trying to understand what's different in the UK.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15I don't think we've spoken to the right person.
0:09:15 > 0:09:16I find it very hard, when I get on the phone
0:09:16 > 0:09:18and I have a list of people I want to talk to,
0:09:18 > 0:09:20or companies that I want to talk to that week,
0:09:20 > 0:09:23I find it very hard that there's a no-name policy
0:09:23 > 0:09:24on a lot of companies.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27I send the product in and I don't get a response from people.
0:09:27 > 0:09:29So actually getting to the right buyer for me
0:09:29 > 0:09:33has been a massive battle and we're still working on it now.
0:09:35 > 0:09:37- HILARY:- Right.
0:09:37 > 0:09:42You've got a brilliant product, it's really unusual, it excites me.
0:09:42 > 0:09:44Yeah, absolutely. Everybody needs a Bunjee.
0:09:44 > 0:09:45Everybody has a mobile phone.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52Is there any negotiation on the percentage?
0:09:52 > 0:09:54You always negotiate on the percentage.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57You're Dragons, that's what you do.
0:09:57 > 0:10:01Because it's a very low percentage, for what you're expecting.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04- Yes, I understand that.- And for the input that you're expecting.- Yeah.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14- HILARY:- I think I can bring a lot to the party.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16I have a lot of access into major retailers.
0:10:18 > 0:10:22So I'll offer you the full 70,000,
0:10:22 > 0:10:25but I'd like 20%.
0:10:28 > 0:10:29Thank you.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35First to break cover is Hilary Devey,
0:10:35 > 0:10:38but she's demanding twice the equity
0:10:38 > 0:10:40the confident duo wanted to give away.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43Now, will Duncan Bannatyne choose to compete?
0:10:47 > 0:10:51Have your accounts for last year been audited and signed off yet?
0:10:51 > 0:10:53They're just been done at the moment, actually.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56And they will show a pre-tax profit of 16,000?
0:10:56 > 0:10:57Yes.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01- DUNCAN:- OK.
0:11:01 > 0:11:03Based on sensible projections,
0:11:03 > 0:11:06showing a profit of 500,000 this year...
0:11:09 > 0:11:12I'll offer you - and I've done this once before in the Den -
0:11:12 > 0:11:16I'll offer you exactly what you've asked for.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19I'll offer you £70,000 for 10% of the company.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22- Thank you.- Wow. Thank you.
0:11:24 > 0:11:26You can talk to Emma, can say, "Thank you, Duncan,"
0:11:26 > 0:11:29- and put your hand out before I change my mind.- Gosh.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32I'm starting to sweat a bit now.
0:11:33 > 0:11:35We'd like to see anybody else?
0:11:35 > 0:11:37I think we go with that.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40- OK, I think we'd like to see...- Mmm?
0:11:42 > 0:11:46OK, while you're talking then, I'll counter that offer.
0:11:46 > 0:11:51I think, instinctively, this product is great and I did when I saw it.
0:11:51 > 0:11:54I really like you, I think you are incredibly credible,
0:11:54 > 0:11:57I think you'd be great fun to work with, as well.
0:11:57 > 0:12:02- Your biggest thing is taking this product to market.- Yes.
0:12:02 > 0:12:06I feel I could probably get the Bunjee range
0:12:06 > 0:12:12with 50% of the marketplace in mobile phones within weeks.
0:12:12 > 0:12:14Wow.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24Duncan's offered you £70,000 for 10%,
0:12:24 > 0:12:27- which is what you came in for. - It's amazing.
0:12:30 > 0:12:35But I'm going to make it really difficult for you, because...
0:12:35 > 0:12:37I'm going to offer you
0:12:37 > 0:12:40all of the money, £70,000...
0:12:43 > 0:12:47..but I would want to see a much larger return...
0:12:49 > 0:12:52..on the basis of the access that I can provide you overnight.
0:12:52 > 0:12:54I don't think anybody else can.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57So...
0:12:59 > 0:13:01I'm going to offer you £70,000,
0:13:01 > 0:13:04- but I want 35% of the business.- Wow.
0:13:06 > 0:13:10- Gosh, OK.- 35% for 70,000?
0:13:15 > 0:13:18The Dragon rivalry comes to the fore.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22Three different offers with three very different equity demands.
0:13:22 > 0:13:26Will Theo Paphitis make it four in a row?
0:13:28 > 0:13:31You've got a variety of offers.
0:13:31 > 0:13:35It's already been said before, you've got a good product.
0:13:35 > 0:13:39It has a very short lifespan, incredibly short.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43Believe you and me, it will be copied in two ticks,
0:13:43 > 0:13:46- patent or no patent. - Yeah. I believe that.
0:13:46 > 0:13:48- Right? That doesn't matter, doesn't matter.- No.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51But it is about getting to the market first, having a brand name,
0:13:51 > 0:13:54and everything else, which I'm sure you're fully aware of.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57So it is right that you'd need to get it to the market quickly.
0:13:58 > 0:14:00My investment criteria is very simple.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03I look at the people, do I like people, can I work with people?
0:14:03 > 0:14:06The next thing I look at is the product.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09Is it something that I can make a business out of?
0:14:11 > 0:14:14And whilst you get a tick in the first box,
0:14:14 > 0:14:18I'm struggling to get the enthusiasm for the product.
0:14:19 > 0:14:24- So, I'm going to give you one less headache.- OK, thank you.
0:14:25 > 0:14:27I'm going to wish you the best of luck and say I'm out.
0:14:27 > 0:14:29I appreciate that. Thank you.
0:14:32 > 0:14:34- DEBORAH:- I'll tell you where I am.
0:14:34 > 0:14:36I think you've done a great job,
0:14:36 > 0:14:38and you've got a lot of areas covered.
0:14:38 > 0:14:41You've already made a profit, but actually, if you're going to
0:14:41 > 0:14:44really grow, you're going to have to be very business-savvy.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51But I'm actually not going to beat Duncan's offer.
0:14:52 > 0:14:54I can't offer you what Peter can.
0:14:56 > 0:14:58Um...
0:15:01 > 0:15:03I was about to say...
0:15:05 > 0:15:06Well, I was about to say,
0:15:06 > 0:15:09"So on that basis I won't be making you an offer,"
0:15:09 > 0:15:11but I actually think you're very good.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14I think I could add value, I know how to make money, you know?
0:15:14 > 0:15:17So I will make you a competitive offer
0:15:17 > 0:15:21so that you've got more options on the table.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24I will make you an offer for all of the money.
0:15:25 > 0:15:31- But I would want 15% of the business.- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39- We'll have to have a little minute, won't we?- Yeah.- If you don't mind.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50THEY WHISPER
0:15:53 > 0:15:54OK, let me talk.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58INAUDIBLE WHISPERING
0:16:03 > 0:16:06I'd like to thank you all for your comments,
0:16:06 > 0:16:08I'd like to thank you all for your offers.
0:16:12 > 0:16:18Peter is the obvious man to market for us, for our products.
0:16:18 > 0:16:23However, we think 35% is maybe too heavy for us.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29So whether you'd consider maybe 25?
0:16:30 > 0:16:32I'll tell you why I wouldn't.
0:16:35 > 0:16:42I could probably get us large enough orders, initial orders,
0:16:42 > 0:16:46from two to three main players in the marketplace.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49I'm talking about the main manufacturers that deliver
0:16:49 > 0:16:54next day to every consumer in every country around the world.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57And we've put products in there on a hunch,
0:16:57 > 0:16:59thinking "that is going to be massive."
0:16:59 > 0:17:05- OK.- And my hunch tells me I think it could be incredibly large.
0:17:05 > 0:17:11- Right.- And so I think that to get access to that there is a price.
0:17:11 > 0:17:15Your incredible hunch, would it take you to 30%?
0:17:18 > 0:17:21When you're sitting there making a huge amount of money,
0:17:21 > 0:17:24and I am too, I don't think you'll resent me
0:17:24 > 0:17:25for keeping that extra 5%.
0:17:30 > 0:17:35- OK, thank you very much. We will accept that.- Yeah?- Absolutely.- Great.
0:17:35 > 0:17:39- THEO:- Excellent!- Thank you very much. Well done.- Cheers.
0:17:39 > 0:17:41Mark and Emma have done it.
0:17:41 > 0:17:45Peter Jones may have strong powers of persuasion, but he also has
0:17:45 > 0:17:47the experience and the contacts
0:17:47 > 0:17:49that are a perfect match for the business.
0:17:49 > 0:17:51- HILARY:- You are the right person for them.
0:17:51 > 0:17:53- THEO:- You shouldn't be offering, if you can't do it.
0:17:53 > 0:17:55I could do it, but I can't do it as quickly as he can.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57I could've. I could've just rung Peter
0:17:57 > 0:17:59and said, "Peter, help me with this."
0:17:59 > 0:18:01HILARY LAUGHS
0:18:02 > 0:18:05To have so many offers, you know, you have to take each one
0:18:05 > 0:18:07and take its value as to what they can bring to the table.
0:18:07 > 0:18:10We were really tempted by Duncan's initial offer,
0:18:10 > 0:18:14but Peter made an even more significant offer for us.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17We'll take Peter all day long at 35%. He'll work hard for it.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23Now, it's common knowledge
0:18:23 > 0:18:26that we're all going to have to work a little longer in life.
0:18:26 > 0:18:30But what does the future hold for those approaching retirement age?
0:18:30 > 0:18:34Katie Harris and Adil Abrar have an answer to that very question.
0:18:34 > 0:18:35They came in seeking investment
0:18:35 > 0:18:38in their experience-focused dotcom business.
0:18:38 > 0:18:41They had a little help from some friends.
0:18:41 > 0:18:45The Amazings is a social online marketplace with a difference.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48I'd like to introduce you to two of the Amazings.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51Hello, my name is Bernadette and I am an Amazing.
0:18:51 > 0:18:53I teach knitting and crochet.
0:18:53 > 0:18:57Hello, my name is Michael and I'm an Amazing at hairdressing.
0:18:57 > 0:19:01The generation that are retiring today, they're not old.
0:19:01 > 0:19:03They don't want to go to bingo.
0:19:03 > 0:19:06So we're going to allow them to sell their time, make money,
0:19:06 > 0:19:09- share their skills.- Amazing!
0:19:10 > 0:19:13A novel initiative, but the multimillionaire investors at first
0:19:13 > 0:19:17appeared more interested in the Amazings than the entrepreneurs.
0:19:17 > 0:19:19So what exactly do you do, Bernadette?
0:19:19 > 0:19:21I teach knitting and crochet.
0:19:21 > 0:19:24I do a two-hour stint for £20 a session.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27For me, it's a social evening as much as the fact that
0:19:27 > 0:19:29I can supplement my pension.
0:19:29 > 0:19:32The knowledge-sharing concept seemed to go down well
0:19:32 > 0:19:35with the Dragons, but Katie and Adil soon found that getting them
0:19:35 > 0:19:37to share their cash wasn't so easy.
0:19:37 > 0:19:40How many Amazings do you think you'll have under your control?
0:19:40 > 0:19:44We've recruited 25 Amazings, we've done 40 events.
0:19:44 > 0:19:48On average, each one of those events has got £140 worth of revenue.
0:19:48 > 0:19:51We make our money by taking a commission.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55- How much have you turned over? - In total, it's about £6,000.
0:19:55 > 0:19:59- How much profit did you make from it?- Profit? Well...
0:19:59 > 0:20:02Um, I think it's fair to say that what we're trying to
0:20:02 > 0:20:03do is build a marketplace.
0:20:03 > 0:20:07No, no, I get all that, I'm just asking for information.
0:20:07 > 0:20:10Sure. Zero.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12No sign of profit yet, then,
0:20:12 > 0:20:15and the likelihood of investment soon slipped away.
0:20:15 > 0:20:18But curiously, one Dragon felt that might be the way forward.
0:20:18 > 0:20:21I actually like the idea and I think it's great that you're doing it.
0:20:21 > 0:20:23The issue that I have is that if I was to invest in this,
0:20:23 > 0:20:26I actually wouldn't want to make any money.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29It should be not-for-profit so that actually the good that you're doing
0:20:29 > 0:20:33can radiate and grow, so it's not an investable opportunity.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35I'm going to say I'm out.
0:20:35 > 0:20:37So, plenty of advice,
0:20:37 > 0:20:40but unfortunately no investment for Katie and Adil.
0:20:42 > 0:20:45I feel sad, but we're going to continue recruiting Amazings,
0:20:45 > 0:20:47we're going to continue helping the world learn.
0:20:47 > 0:20:49We think we have a really great concept,
0:20:49 > 0:20:52and we're just really keen to get investors on board
0:20:52 > 0:20:54that, you know, really want to back us and the concept.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56And if they are not the right ones,
0:20:56 > 0:20:59then that's cool, we'll find someone that is.
0:20:59 > 0:21:03Next in the Den was inventor Mark Thompson from Solihull,
0:21:03 > 0:21:08looking for £200,000 of Dragon investment in his new creation.
0:21:08 > 0:21:12We've invented a fully portable solar power supply.
0:21:12 > 0:21:17Flick a switch, you have electricity. Toast is just cooking there.
0:21:17 > 0:21:20This little device changes a lot of lives.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24Now, it's important to remain calm under pressure in the Den,
0:21:24 > 0:21:26especially when things start to get heated.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30- Something's burning. - It's the toast.- Crisis averted.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32For the moment, at least.
0:21:32 > 0:21:35- Have you sold any at all? - Yes, 100 pieces. To where?
0:21:35 > 0:21:38Ghana, UAE, Bangladesh.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41And your unique selling point is the portability of it?
0:21:41 > 0:21:42Yes, it is, yeah.
0:21:42 > 0:21:47Mark, it looks about as portable as a baby elephant.
0:21:47 > 0:21:50Not the most helpful observation when looking for investment,
0:21:50 > 0:21:52so Mark called for some backup.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55Could I bring my dad in at all?
0:21:55 > 0:21:59Dad's 70 years of age. We started the business together.
0:21:59 > 0:22:01But would standing shoulder to shoulder
0:22:01 > 0:22:05with his father, Gerald, help Mark's investment cause?
0:22:05 > 0:22:09- What did you do before this?- I ran my own company. Got Dad involved.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12Grew a battery company up to 7.2 million.
0:22:12 > 0:22:16- And you sold it for how much? - The company went for two million.
0:22:16 > 0:22:19Mark said to me, "Dad, do you fancy making up another company?"
0:22:19 > 0:22:22And I said, "Yeah, let's have a go for it."
0:22:22 > 0:22:26An inspirational family business story, but sadly the Dragons
0:22:26 > 0:22:30did not think this new venture was worth the £200,000 investment.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33I've got a business here making no money,
0:22:33 > 0:22:35and you are valuing it at two million.
0:22:35 > 0:22:40Why did you come here with such a ridiculous valuation?
0:22:40 > 0:22:43- Did you never take any risks, Theo?- Oh, my God!
0:22:43 > 0:22:46Mark's dad, if I told you some of the good,
0:22:46 > 0:22:51the bad and the very ugly risks I've taken, you would cry.
0:22:51 > 0:22:55And you know what? I don't make ugly investments any more. So, I'm out.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04In business, it often pays to go with what you know.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08Former mobile DJ Mark Shepherd came up with his invention
0:23:08 > 0:23:11after witnessing a common problem facing women on a night out.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14Will the Dragons see a money making opportunity?
0:23:43 > 0:23:46MUSIC: "Groovejet" by Spiller
0:23:46 > 0:23:51- What are you doing?- Putting my Itsoles in.- What are Itsoles?
0:23:51 > 0:23:53They are the new insoles.
0:23:53 > 0:23:56They're so comfortable, I can dance all night in these.
0:24:03 > 0:24:04Why are you sitting down?
0:24:04 > 0:24:07I can't dance any longer, my feet are hurting.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16Hello, my name is Mark Shepherd.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19I'm here today seeking an investment
0:24:19 > 0:24:22of £50,000 for a 15% share in my company.
0:24:24 > 0:24:28Women love high heels, and heels are getting higher and higher.
0:24:28 > 0:24:31I developed Itsoles when I was working as a DJ,
0:24:31 > 0:24:34and I would constantly see insoles on the dance floor
0:24:34 > 0:24:36because they had fallen out,
0:24:36 > 0:24:40and women carrying their shoes home because of the pain.
0:24:40 > 0:24:42Itsoles was developed to prevent this problem.
0:24:42 > 0:24:47You simply place a soft felt pad inside the shoe.
0:24:47 > 0:24:51Once you've attached that, you place the front gel insole into the shoe.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55You place the back insole in, and then that's securely in place.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57Thank you for listening.
0:24:57 > 0:25:01I'll now answer any questions. I'll just ask the girls to hand out
0:25:01 > 0:25:05a pair of Itsoles for you to look at. Thank you.
0:25:06 > 0:25:10A rather low-key end after what was a very lively opening.
0:25:10 > 0:25:15Swansea-based Mark Shepherd is asking for a £50,000 investment
0:25:15 > 0:25:19to take his women's foot protector brand to the next level.
0:25:19 > 0:25:22In return, 15% equity is on offer.
0:25:22 > 0:25:26But Peter Jones looks to have something on his mind.
0:25:28 > 0:25:32- Mark, Hi.- Hello.- I'm Peter. - Hello, Peter.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35I just want to focus on something you said.
0:25:35 > 0:25:37- You were a DJ.- Yeah. - Was that a while ago?
0:25:37 > 0:25:38Well, I was a DJ up until about 2008,
0:25:38 > 0:25:41and since then I've been working on Itsoles.
0:25:41 > 0:25:44So, you've done nothing else in that time apart from Itsoles?
0:25:44 > 0:25:47- Just Itsoles, yes. - And how have you made a living?
0:25:47 > 0:25:49Well, I've just managed to survive on,
0:25:49 > 0:25:52just doing the odd disco now and again, that's all.
0:25:52 > 0:25:55- Just the odd one or two.- OK.
0:25:55 > 0:26:00You've got a product that looks like it just puts a cushion
0:26:00 > 0:26:04underneath the sole and the instep of the foot. Is that right?
0:26:04 > 0:26:08No, there's a lot of benefits of this product over existing products.
0:26:08 > 0:26:11It has toe ridge on the front gel pad.
0:26:11 > 0:26:14This toe ridge helps to stop the foot moving forward.
0:26:14 > 0:26:18With the rear insole, you have a heel ridge,
0:26:18 > 0:26:19and that also stops the foot moving forward,
0:26:19 > 0:26:22also taking pressure off the ball of the foot.
0:26:22 > 0:26:26Actually, 70% of the bodyweight is on the ball of the foot when a lady
0:26:26 > 0:26:30wears a three-inch heel, so anything higher, there's even more pain.
0:26:30 > 0:26:35- OK. So, is this a product that can be patented?- It is patented.
0:26:35 > 0:26:40Well, it's patent pending. And my patent attorney has told me
0:26:40 > 0:26:42it should be granted by the end of the year.
0:26:42 > 0:26:46And is there any other product out there that is similar to this?
0:26:46 > 0:26:48Yeah. Scholl's Party Feet.
0:26:48 > 0:26:50And how have Party Feet done as a business?
0:26:50 > 0:26:55Well, statistically, in 2008 they made £58 million.
0:26:55 > 0:27:00- HILARY:- Is that turnover?- Yes. Yes. - They turned over.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03The actual foot care market itself is worth 3.7 billion.
0:27:08 > 0:27:12A confident Mark clearly demonstrates a knowledge of his market.
0:27:12 > 0:27:16It's a good start. What will Deborah Meaden make of it all?
0:27:18 > 0:27:21OK. The good news is, I completely get it, because I've got
0:27:21 > 0:27:24lots of pairs of this type of product, a gel style product.
0:27:24 > 0:27:27- Yeah.- They all pretty much deal with the ball of the foot issue,
0:27:27 > 0:27:29- which, you're quite right, is where the pain is.- That's right.
0:27:29 > 0:27:33What I'm worried about is somebody else has come up with the solution,
0:27:33 > 0:27:35and that what I'm feeling here...
0:27:37 > 0:27:39It's making the shoe really tight.
0:27:39 > 0:27:45And it's pushing my foot out of the shoe.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47So you end up with a different problem,
0:27:47 > 0:27:51which is, as you walk, your heel starts slopping out of the shoe.
0:27:51 > 0:27:54- So, I understand exactly where you're coming from.- Yeah.
0:27:54 > 0:27:59- But I actually think the problem has already been solved much more elegantly.- OK.
0:27:59 > 0:28:01- HILARY:- Deborah's right.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03I mean, the problem with shoes like this
0:28:03 > 0:28:07and what Deborah has got on is that the heels are very thin, they're very high,
0:28:07 > 0:28:10- and it's the instability of walking anyway.- That's right.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13- I mean, they are cushioned. - Yeah.- So, if, you know...
0:28:13 > 0:28:16I mean, I do know people who've bought really expensive shoes
0:28:16 > 0:28:18and wear my insoles in their shoes.
0:28:18 > 0:28:22And they have paid over £300 for a pair of shoes, and they love my insoles in their shoes.
0:28:25 > 0:28:28Customer feedback is important to any business,
0:28:28 > 0:28:33but sadly, in this instance, it is not as positive as Mark would have hoped.
0:28:33 > 0:28:38Can Theo Paphitis find reason to be optimistic about the business itself?
0:28:40 > 0:28:44- Mark. One - how much money have you put into this so far?- Yes.
0:28:44 > 0:28:47And, two - how have you funded it?
0:28:47 > 0:28:49I funded it through... I've had investment.
0:28:49 > 0:28:54- Give me some numbers.- OK, well, I currently have five investors.
0:28:54 > 0:28:57One of my investors invested 35,000.
0:28:57 > 0:29:02Two of them invested together, and they put in 10,000.
0:29:02 > 0:29:06- Right.- And the other two investors put in £10,000 each.
0:29:07 > 0:29:11- And have you put any money in? - Yes, I put in about 30,000.
0:29:11 > 0:29:14- So you've spent nearly 100,000 quid. - That's right, yes.
0:29:14 > 0:29:18- And how much stock have you got? - I've got about 2,000 units left.
0:29:18 > 0:29:21- Left? So how much did you have in? - 3,000.
0:29:21 > 0:29:23How many months have you had the stock for?
0:29:23 > 0:29:25I only had the stock last year.
0:29:25 > 0:29:27So how much turnover did you manage?
0:29:27 > 0:29:29It was £8,000.
0:29:30 > 0:29:35- £8,000.- Yes. - Why haven't you sold any more?
0:29:35 > 0:29:37I've been doing this all on my own.
0:29:37 > 0:29:39You've had the stock for a year, Mark.
0:29:39 > 0:29:43- I've had the stock for a long time, yes.- And you haven't sold it.
0:29:45 > 0:29:50- Mark, who owns the company? - I do.- What percentage?
0:29:50 > 0:29:52I have 70% of the company.
0:29:52 > 0:29:58- So, the investors who invested 65,000 between them got 30%?- Yes.
0:29:58 > 0:30:04- And now you're asking us for 50,000 for 15%?- That's correct.
0:30:04 > 0:30:08And obviously you know now this isn't selling as well
0:30:08 > 0:30:12as what you thought it was going to sell when you got that investment.
0:30:12 > 0:30:15The reason I need investment is for marketing and to establish a brand.
0:30:15 > 0:30:19That's why you need the 65,000, Mark, and you had projections then.
0:30:19 > 0:30:23And you are actually below the projections that you gave to your original investors, aren't you?
0:30:23 > 0:30:27My original investors never even asked for projections, to be honest.
0:30:27 > 0:30:29Could I have their telephone numbers?
0:30:29 > 0:30:34- I would like some investment in my companies. - DRAGONS LAUGH
0:30:34 > 0:30:37I think that one of the problems you have is that the big competitor
0:30:37 > 0:30:40might be sitting waiting to challenge your patent.
0:30:40 > 0:30:42I think you should go to them and try and sell it.
0:30:42 > 0:30:46Well, actually I approached Scholl with my prototype two years ago,
0:30:46 > 0:30:51and they've asked me to come back and see them with a finished product.
0:30:51 > 0:30:55OK. You know, I do think it's something that would be very difficult
0:30:55 > 0:30:59to make a huge profit on and make huge sales on because of the competition.
0:30:59 > 0:31:03The product actually is made for £2.79. I sell it for £14.99.
0:31:03 > 0:31:07- Good mark-up. - Yes, it's a 72% mark-up on it.
0:31:07 > 0:31:11OK. I wouldn't give up. I think you've got something here.
0:31:11 > 0:31:16But I think it's just too risky and too much hard work for me to invest in it,
0:31:16 > 0:31:19and so for that reason, I wish you the best of luck,
0:31:19 > 0:31:21but I have to say I'm sorry, but I'm out.
0:31:24 > 0:31:27Finally some encouraging comments about the product,
0:31:27 > 0:31:29but not about the business.
0:31:29 > 0:31:30Mark loses his first Dragon,
0:31:30 > 0:31:34and Deborah Meaden looks like she's made up her mind, too.
0:31:37 > 0:31:40The competitor you are talking about,
0:31:40 > 0:31:43who have absolutely dominated that market
0:31:43 > 0:31:46and are known for actually coming up with solutions
0:31:46 > 0:31:50- to make people's footwear more comfortable.- Yes, they are.
0:31:50 > 0:31:52For you to compete with them,
0:31:52 > 0:31:56you've got to come up with something that is unique and important enough to me
0:31:56 > 0:32:01to make it better so that you can compete with them.
0:32:01 > 0:32:05- Yeah.- Truthfully, would I switch from the current product to this?
0:32:05 > 0:32:07No, I wouldn't.
0:32:07 > 0:32:10Because actually the current product, for me,
0:32:10 > 0:32:11does everything I want it to do.
0:32:11 > 0:32:13And that says it all.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16You haven't given me as a consumer enough of a reason
0:32:16 > 0:32:19to move away from the tried and tested,
0:32:19 > 0:32:23and the people who are absolutely known for footwear.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28- So I won't be investing in you. I'm out.- OK. Thank you.
0:32:31 > 0:32:36Mark, I think this is something that is not going to catch on.
0:32:36 > 0:32:38I don't think there's a huge market for this.
0:32:38 > 0:32:39And I think at the end of the day,
0:32:39 > 0:32:41it comes down to what the consumer reaction is.
0:32:41 > 0:32:45And you've had two very serious consumers here,
0:32:45 > 0:32:49- and results have been bad.- Right.
0:32:49 > 0:32:53This is not an investment for me, so, Mark, I'm out.
0:32:53 > 0:32:58- Mark. You've had the product for a year.- Yes.
0:32:58 > 0:33:03All the excitement of creating it, yeah? Why hasn't it worked?
0:33:05 > 0:33:08Um, because I haven't really gone in front of the buyers,
0:33:08 > 0:33:10the right buyers for the shops.
0:33:10 > 0:33:12I haven't been able to get through to the buyers.
0:33:12 > 0:33:14I've tried to get through to the buyers.
0:33:14 > 0:33:15I've sent the samples off,
0:33:15 > 0:33:19I'm trying to meet the right person and talk to the right person.
0:33:19 > 0:33:23- Do you think you should carry on with this?- Yes, I do.
0:33:23 > 0:33:24Because this is just the first one.
0:33:24 > 0:33:28I've actually got other prototypes developed to come forward after this.
0:33:28 > 0:33:32So you are creating new versions at more cost
0:33:32 > 0:33:34when you can't sell what you've already got?
0:33:34 > 0:33:37I can bring out, like, for example with the gel,
0:33:37 > 0:33:39I can make it a glittery one for Christmas, for example.
0:33:39 > 0:33:43The peak times for selling this product is Christmas time and summer season.
0:33:43 > 0:33:45Mark. Mark. 50% of all small businesses
0:33:45 > 0:33:48- fail in the first couple of years. - Yes.
0:33:48 > 0:33:50And it's great to be passionate about your business,
0:33:50 > 0:33:53- but you also have to be very honest...- Yes.
0:33:53 > 0:33:55- ..about how things are working out. - Yes.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58- I don't think that this is something that I can invest in.- OK.
0:33:58 > 0:34:00I'm afraid I'm out.
0:34:02 > 0:34:05Firm opinions from the experienced investors.
0:34:05 > 0:34:09Mark's initial confidence is starting to look misplaced.
0:34:09 > 0:34:13Now, just one Dragon remains.
0:34:13 > 0:34:16Mark, I'm not a horrible person.
0:34:16 > 0:34:20I'm very compassionate, very honest and very sincere.
0:34:20 > 0:34:24- But, I don't think there's anything wrong with your product.- OK.
0:34:24 > 0:34:28- I think what is wrong is you.- OK.
0:34:29 > 0:34:32- You're not a natural born salesperson.- No, I'm not.
0:34:32 > 0:34:35- You're not a natural marketeer. - No, I'm not.
0:34:35 > 0:34:38- You haven't got any of those skills. - I realise that.
0:34:38 > 0:34:40If I'd have put 30K of my money
0:34:40 > 0:34:44and the rest of other people's money in a product,
0:34:44 > 0:34:46by God, I'd be out there,
0:34:46 > 0:34:49- and I wouldn't be taking no for an answer.- Yeah.
0:34:49 > 0:34:53If you'd have invented baked beans you wouldn't have sold them,
0:34:53 > 0:34:58because, I'm sorry, my friend, you're far too laid-back.
0:34:59 > 0:35:03- And please take this as constructive advice.- OK.
0:35:03 > 0:35:06Tenacity, focus, self-sacrifice.
0:35:06 > 0:35:09- That's what every entrepreneur needs.- Yes. I know my strengths.
0:35:09 > 0:35:13My strengths are, I am a designer, an innovator,
0:35:13 > 0:35:15and I am seeking expertise in marketing.
0:35:15 > 0:35:19I'm seeking people who can help me with that.
0:35:19 > 0:35:23I'm very sorry. Take a good look in the mirror, and then start again.
0:35:23 > 0:35:28And it is constructive criticism, not denigration. I'm out.
0:35:28 > 0:35:31- OK, thank you.- Good luck, Mark. - Thanks a lot. Thank you.
0:35:33 > 0:35:36That was a tough experience for Mark.
0:35:36 > 0:35:38It was a brave attempt to get investment,
0:35:38 > 0:35:42but he leaves without the cash or the support he badly needs.
0:35:46 > 0:35:51So far tonight, only one Dragon has seen enough potential to invest.
0:35:52 > 0:35:55Others who tried and failed in the Den included
0:35:55 > 0:35:59Cheltenham-based Abigail Whittaker and her husband Andreas Patikis,
0:35:59 > 0:36:02who decided to turn the tables on the Dragons.
0:36:02 > 0:36:07Let me start by reversing the roles today, and giving you some money.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09Oh, my goodness!
0:36:09 > 0:36:13You can have that extra cash in your pocket every week thanks to Tick-Tock.
0:36:13 > 0:36:17It is a unique visual aid to remind the householder
0:36:17 > 0:36:20to use food types we most commonly waste.
0:36:20 > 0:36:23So, a money-saving initiative - that's got to be a good idea.
0:36:23 > 0:36:27But entrepreneurs be warned - as we know, it's great bottom lines
0:36:27 > 0:36:30not great concepts that excite these hungry investors.
0:36:30 > 0:36:33Where's the money coming from to make this a business?
0:36:33 > 0:36:36We're generating an income via the retailers.
0:36:36 > 0:36:38Which retailer have you gone to that has said,
0:36:38 > 0:36:40"I'm willing to pay for such a product"?
0:36:40 > 0:36:42At the moment, our greatest interest is Sainsbury's.
0:36:42 > 0:36:44We manufacture it and they pay for it.
0:36:44 > 0:36:47To the householder, it's absolutely free.
0:36:47 > 0:36:51Having interest from a major multiple can sometimes
0:36:51 > 0:36:52clinch a deal in the Den.
0:36:52 > 0:36:55Unfortunately, this time it served only to ignite a heated debate
0:36:55 > 0:36:58amongst the rival investors.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00I don't believe that any supermarket is going to spend
0:37:00 > 0:37:05millions of pounds to reduce the amount of food their customers buy.
0:37:05 > 0:37:07Duncan is absolutely wrong,
0:37:07 > 0:37:13because supermarkets are spending a fortune trying to cut down on waste.
0:37:13 > 0:37:16Deborah, I go to a supermarket and see a packet of food and it's £4.
0:37:17 > 0:37:21There is a big sign on the shelf, it says "two for £6".
0:37:21 > 0:37:23People will buy the two when they only need the one.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26That is food that's being wasted.
0:37:26 > 0:37:30If they were truly committed, they would stop doing that just like that.
0:37:30 > 0:37:33- I've got to say, I'm out. - Thank you.
0:37:34 > 0:37:37A lesson in business, then, from Duncan Bannatyne.
0:37:37 > 0:37:42But would that have an effect on the budding entrepreneurs?
0:37:42 > 0:37:45We went in with a product that we really believe in,
0:37:45 > 0:37:47so expected it to go better.
0:37:47 > 0:37:49It was obvious that Deborah's been more involved in the waste
0:37:49 > 0:37:52side of things, and she understands that there are
0:37:52 > 0:37:55big budgets currently to address these issues.
0:37:55 > 0:37:58It was disappointing to see Duncan's opinion,
0:37:58 > 0:38:00but I think it is always good
0:38:00 > 0:38:03to get a bit of controversy going in the Den, anyway.
0:38:04 > 0:38:07Next to walk down into the Den were Danny Keane and Phil Andrews from Gloucester,
0:38:07 > 0:38:10who hope their novelty outdoor cooking appliance
0:38:10 > 0:38:15would be enough to tempt £40,000 from the multi-millionaires.
0:38:15 > 0:38:19Welcome to the CarBQ, an outdoor cooking appliance
0:38:19 > 0:38:21your friends and neighbours will be envious of.
0:38:21 > 0:38:25We've got flashing indicator lights, headlamps.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28- HORN SOUNDS - Your food's ready.
0:38:28 > 0:38:31If you'd like to grill us on anything...
0:38:31 > 0:38:33Whilst the friends' unorthodox pitching style
0:38:33 > 0:38:36raised smiles as well as a few eyebrows,
0:38:36 > 0:38:40Danny and Phil did soon settle into the rigours of Den interrogation.
0:38:40 > 0:38:43- When did you come up with this? - I watched a programme on telly once,
0:38:43 > 0:38:46and the guy was living on Palm Island in Dubai,
0:38:46 > 0:38:50and he actually said, it all comes down to what barbecue you've got.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53It's what the Joneses haven't got, you know. I want one of them.
0:38:53 > 0:38:56- Have you sold any? - Yes, two and a half.- Two and a half?
0:38:58 > 0:39:01Unusual figures, then, to match an unusual product.
0:39:01 > 0:39:05But at least one of the car-loving multi-millionaires was intrigued.
0:39:07 > 0:39:11So, you buy the non-original panels and you spray it?
0:39:11 > 0:39:14But you can't have the Mini logo on there, can you?
0:39:14 > 0:39:17- No, it hasn't got it on there. - I can see it's not got it on there.
0:39:17 > 0:39:21- I'm not blind!- Sorry. - We haven't called it a Mini.
0:39:21 > 0:39:22I never said you did!
0:39:22 > 0:39:26What I am saying is, it looks like a Mini, but it's not one.
0:39:26 > 0:39:28It's a barbecue!
0:39:30 > 0:39:33So, the Dragons enjoyed the pitch, but in the end it was
0:39:33 > 0:39:36Deborah Meaden who summed up the feeling in the Den.
0:39:36 > 0:39:39Sometimes you do something because you enjoy doing it.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42I don't think you want an investor, because when you get
0:39:42 > 0:39:46an investor on board, it can become a lot more structured and businesslike.
0:39:46 > 0:39:49I think you guys have something here that you can sell yourselves,
0:39:49 > 0:39:51and you are going to be able to enjoy doing it.
0:39:51 > 0:39:53I'd think long and hard about taking an investor on board,
0:39:53 > 0:39:55so I'm out.
0:39:55 > 0:39:56- Thank you.- Bye.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03There are two basic ways of making money.
0:40:03 > 0:40:06You can sell a few items at a high margin,
0:40:06 > 0:40:09or you can sell a lot of items at low margin.
0:40:09 > 0:40:13Our next entrepreneurs are in the second of those categories.
0:40:13 > 0:40:17Luke Booth and his uncle, Chris Eaves, need to sell millions.
0:40:17 > 0:40:19Will they convince the Dragons they can?
0:40:41 > 0:40:45Hi, Dragons. I'm Luke Booth. This is Christopher Eaves.
0:40:45 > 0:40:49We are after a £50,000 investment for 10% equity in the business.
0:40:49 > 0:40:51Pack Four designs
0:40:51 > 0:40:55unique and innovative packaging for the food and drinks to go market.
0:40:55 > 0:40:59We currently have two products. Um..
0:41:01 > 0:41:02Um, we're looking...
0:41:05 > 0:41:07- We... sorry.- Go on.
0:41:16 > 0:41:18We are focusing on design
0:41:18 > 0:41:21and manufacture of our product under the Pack Four brand.
0:41:21 > 0:41:23We currently have two products.
0:41:25 > 0:41:28The first pack we are going to show you is the "food to go" pack.
0:41:28 > 0:41:32We design around the issues of drive through and takeaways.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34We are currently in talks
0:41:34 > 0:41:36with two of the largest fast food chains in the world.
0:41:36 > 0:41:40And there is a possible one million trial order for Europe.
0:41:43 > 0:41:46Our second innovative, unique patent pending product
0:41:46 > 0:41:49is our four pint beer carrier, "drinks to go".
0:41:50 > 0:41:54"Drinks to go" is currently being trialled at a major stadium
0:41:54 > 0:41:57in the UK which has a capacity of 90,000 people.
0:41:58 > 0:42:02It is easy to load and unload. All the beers are stable.
0:42:03 > 0:42:06It only takes one person to take the beers out.
0:42:09 > 0:42:11Thank you.
0:42:13 > 0:42:16A rather nervy pitch from young entrepreneurs Chris Eaves
0:42:16 > 0:42:18and his nephew Luke Booth.
0:42:18 > 0:42:21The duo need a £50,000 cash injection to launch
0:42:21 > 0:42:26their imaginative takeaway food and drink carriers into the mass market.
0:42:26 > 0:42:2910% of their product design business is on offer.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32However, Theo Paphitis is not looking convinced.
0:42:34 > 0:42:37Chris, Luke. I'm Theo. I'm struggling.
0:42:39 > 0:42:43I'm just looking at what's new in any of these.
0:42:43 > 0:42:49If you go to the cricket, you can carry six pints in one holder.
0:42:49 > 0:42:52But stadiums across the country are having issues
0:42:52 > 0:42:54with cardboard carriers like you're talking about
0:42:54 > 0:42:57being thrown up into the air and causing harm to people.
0:42:57 > 0:43:01There's over 350 stadiums in the UK alone.
0:43:01 > 0:43:04We are trialling 30,000 units with a major sports stadium.
0:43:04 > 0:43:06Who's the major sports stadium?
0:43:06 > 0:43:10- It's one of the Six Nations rugby stadiums.- In England?- In England.
0:43:10 > 0:43:14We approached companies like the RFU.
0:43:14 > 0:43:17They liked it and said, can you design us a four-pint beer carrier.
0:43:17 > 0:43:20They pointed out a problem to us,
0:43:20 > 0:43:22and we came up with a solution to the problem.
0:43:22 > 0:43:24OK, so that is one part of your business.
0:43:24 > 0:43:26And the other part of the business,
0:43:26 > 0:43:28you've got an integrated bag with a handle in it.
0:43:28 > 0:43:31Yes, but it carries food and drink in one.
0:43:32 > 0:43:36OK, so, to summarise, you haven't actually reinvented the wheel?
0:43:41 > 0:43:43The answer you are looking for is, "no, we haven't."
0:43:43 > 0:43:47Everything is designed basically on something that is already existing.
0:43:47 > 0:43:49All right, OK.
0:43:49 > 0:43:51An awkward opening exchange,
0:43:51 > 0:43:54and the pair's nerves have yet to settle.
0:43:54 > 0:43:58So how will they fare under the scrutiny of Peter Jones?
0:44:01 > 0:44:04- I get it, and I think it's clever. - Thank you.
0:44:05 > 0:44:08If the contract with the RFU is successful,
0:44:08 > 0:44:11give me an idea of how much profit that would bring in.
0:44:11 > 0:44:17We are looking with the RFU between 60 and 90,000 units a month.
0:44:17 > 0:44:20Can you quantify it for me?
0:44:20 > 0:44:27About 35 per cent at 12.5p per unit.
0:44:27 > 0:44:30Yeah, but if we just stick to the basics,
0:44:30 > 0:44:34you get the big-ticket as the wins like the RFU.
0:44:34 > 0:44:36What I'm saying is, how can I get to a point
0:44:36 > 0:44:40where I can quantify the value of what it's worth?
0:44:40 > 0:44:43Sorry, I'm misunderstanding the question. What...?
0:44:43 > 0:44:46I'm trying to work out what the value of these contracts are
0:44:46 > 0:44:48to you as a company if you win them.
0:44:48 > 0:44:52When we did the projections for this year's profits,
0:44:52 > 0:44:57we also have interest from Solo Cup Europe, which are the people
0:44:57 > 0:45:01that make the cups, that want to buy the product off of us
0:45:01 > 0:45:05and sell it with their cups.
0:45:05 > 0:45:09Guys, I think this is really ingenious,
0:45:09 > 0:45:13but the bit that's really missing is the sort of business demonstration.
0:45:13 > 0:45:16I think it's what Peter was saying, how do I get to understand
0:45:16 > 0:45:21the value of this business unless you can give us some numbers?
0:45:21 > 0:45:24So have you got numbers behind that?
0:45:24 > 0:45:29We have got forecasts of sales of 320,000,
0:45:29 > 0:45:37gross profit of 115, and then a net profit of 100,000.
0:45:37 > 0:45:39So you have next to no operating costs?
0:45:39 > 0:45:42We work from home and try to keep bills down a minimum
0:45:42 > 0:45:45because we can't afford a plush little unit.
0:45:45 > 0:45:48At present, because we want to push the business,
0:45:48 > 0:45:52- and we don't want to take anything from the business... - OK, but as an investor,
0:45:52 > 0:45:57we need to understand what the potential is in this business model.
0:45:57 > 0:45:59So what's your future business model?
0:45:59 > 0:46:03Well, we want to develop new products
0:46:03 > 0:46:06and maintain the IP for ourselves.
0:46:06 > 0:46:08Sorry, I'm only interrupting you
0:46:08 > 0:46:10because I don't want you to go off on the wrong tangent.
0:46:10 > 0:46:12You haven't run a business before?
0:46:12 > 0:46:15- No, I haven't got any business experience.- And have you?
0:46:15 > 0:46:16I pick up the phone.
0:46:16 > 0:46:17You can make the sales,
0:46:17 > 0:46:21well, that's the good end to get a handle on in the first instance.
0:46:21 > 0:46:22So you are good designers,
0:46:22 > 0:46:25but you are really looking for somebody to put money in
0:46:25 > 0:46:29and help you structure a business to be able to grow into the future?
0:46:29 > 0:46:32- Is that a fair summary?- Yes.
0:46:36 > 0:46:40The Dragons respect honesty, passion and determination,
0:46:40 > 0:46:44but is admitting to such a lack of business nous a risky strategy
0:46:44 > 0:46:46when looking for investment?
0:46:46 > 0:46:49Duncan Bannatyne doesn't seem impressed.
0:46:51 > 0:46:55How difficult was it to design a piece of cardboard with holes in it?
0:46:59 > 0:47:02Well, the fact that the product holds food in a completely
0:47:02 > 0:47:05different way, it can hold drink and food together.
0:47:05 > 0:47:08A bag inside an outer carrier.
0:47:08 > 0:47:10That's been quite an engineering feat.
0:47:10 > 0:47:13What do you mean by a bag inside a carrier?
0:47:13 > 0:47:14A bag inside a cardboard outer.
0:47:14 > 0:47:17So it's cardboard and you get a bag inside?
0:47:17 > 0:47:19- Do you want to have a look?- Yep.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30There's no bag in this. Just chips.
0:47:30 > 0:47:34There's a brown bag with a cardboard outer.
0:47:40 > 0:47:41You're joking?
0:47:44 > 0:47:46What's the benefit of this?
0:47:46 > 0:47:50It just makes it easier for the consumer to enjoy their meal.
0:47:50 > 0:47:54We've also got potentially this bag holder could rip open into a tray.
0:47:54 > 0:47:58We've been in talks with one of the major fast food chains in the world.
0:47:58 > 0:48:02- To do what?- Basically, they've got a rebrand in Europe.
0:48:02 > 0:48:05They want a variant of this design.
0:48:05 > 0:48:09I can't understand why a huge company would go out and say
0:48:09 > 0:48:13to someone else, come and design a box to put our product in,
0:48:13 > 0:48:16and we'll give you loads of money. They could design it.
0:48:16 > 0:48:20They can't, because they don't own the patent on that specific design.
0:48:20 > 0:48:25We own the patent for a bag inside an outer carrier.
0:48:25 > 0:48:27And I think that the possibility of that,
0:48:27 > 0:48:32taking it to other avenues and other markets, like for new sandwich packs.
0:48:34 > 0:48:35- Coffee and cake.- OK.
0:48:35 > 0:48:40So the biggest fast food seller in the world is going to
0:48:40 > 0:48:43buy your product, and not only that, you can go
0:48:43 > 0:48:46and sell it to other operators that do the same?
0:48:46 > 0:48:48They would want exclusivity.
0:48:49 > 0:48:53We've not agreed that yet, but that could be a consideration.
0:48:53 > 0:48:58They will not buy millions of your products without getting exclusive rights.
0:48:59 > 0:49:04I don't think it's worth a gamble at this point. I'm out.
0:49:08 > 0:49:12A damning indictment of the future of their business
0:49:12 > 0:49:15results in a first blow for the fledgling entrepreneurs.
0:49:15 > 0:49:18Can Theo Paphitis be more forgiving?
0:49:21 > 0:49:23Guys, why are you here?
0:49:23 > 0:49:25If you've got all these wonderful things going on.
0:49:25 > 0:49:28We want to develop the company further.
0:49:28 > 0:49:32We also want to get these two products further off the ground.
0:49:32 > 0:49:33At the minute, we're getting there,
0:49:33 > 0:49:36but we really want to focus on what we're doing.
0:49:36 > 0:49:39And what will the £50,000 do for you?
0:49:39 > 0:49:43The 50,000 is going to invest into some equipment
0:49:43 > 0:49:46and also some working capital for us
0:49:46 > 0:49:49to fulfil the orders that are going to be coming up.
0:49:52 > 0:49:54OK. You've got the carrier.
0:49:54 > 0:49:57I like the way all the carriers sitting in that box,
0:49:57 > 0:49:58don't take up a lot of space.
0:49:58 > 0:50:02That's ingenious. Patent for that, I don't know.
0:50:02 > 0:50:05The 6 million question. Until it goes all the way through...
0:50:05 > 0:50:08And the big boys buy it, that's when it will be worth the money.
0:50:08 > 0:50:14- Exactly. It could be worth millions or absolutely zilch.- Yes.
0:50:16 > 0:50:21- How much have you spent on this so far?- Um... 15,000?
0:50:21 > 0:50:24Student loan, instead of going out drinking.
0:50:25 > 0:50:28Tell me about you two guys. What was your background?
0:50:30 > 0:50:32Well, I basically studied transport
0:50:32 > 0:50:35and product design at Coventry University.
0:50:35 > 0:50:37Then I went on to study my MA at St Martins in London.
0:50:37 > 0:50:39And then I went into industry,
0:50:39 > 0:50:45and just finished working for a British sports car company.
0:50:45 > 0:50:47OK.
0:50:47 > 0:50:51I studied at Central St Martins also. I have done a BA in product design.
0:50:51 > 0:50:54Since I finished, I've been working on the packaging,
0:50:54 > 0:50:56trying to pull in clients to drum up some interest.
0:50:56 > 0:51:02- So you graduated and set up your own business immediately?- Yes.- OK.
0:51:02 > 0:51:05You are both incredibly bright, you can see that.
0:51:05 > 0:51:07And do you know what, for designers,
0:51:07 > 0:51:11you are incredibly passionate as well, which I like.
0:51:12 > 0:51:17So really what you are asking for is 50,000 quid investment in you two.
0:51:17 > 0:51:20Because we can't assess from what you've got here.
0:51:20 > 0:51:24We have seen good packaging, and we see good packaging all day long.
0:51:24 > 0:51:25Some of this stuff could come off.
0:51:25 > 0:51:27It might be new stuff that will come off.
0:51:27 > 0:51:30You're saying, invest in us
0:51:30 > 0:51:33- to produce products that will make money.- Yes.
0:51:41 > 0:51:43Guys, I am going to make you an offer.
0:51:46 > 0:51:50I am going to offer you the £50,000 investment in you two.
0:51:51 > 0:51:53Into your company.
0:51:53 > 0:51:55Where all your designs go into.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00Um... But I want 30%.
0:52:01 > 0:52:03Yep. OK.
0:52:03 > 0:52:08- That was a nice offer.- There you go, first offer.- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:52:09 > 0:52:14A dramatic turnaround, and a financial lifeline for the duo.
0:52:14 > 0:52:19But Theo Paphitis requires three times the equity initially on offer.
0:52:19 > 0:52:21With three Dragons remaining,
0:52:21 > 0:52:23can Chris and Luke negotiate a better deal?
0:52:25 > 0:52:31Guys, in terms of making an evaluation, it is very, very difficult.
0:52:31 > 0:52:35So the question is, do I want to take a punt on you
0:52:35 > 0:52:38and what you clearly are, which is very talented?
0:52:39 > 0:52:41I think I would.
0:52:41 > 0:52:45But my worry is you haven't given me enough structure for me
0:52:45 > 0:52:51to understand the business well enough for me to say yes.
0:52:51 > 0:52:53And I think Theo has made you a good offer,
0:52:53 > 0:52:56which I don't think I would improve upon.
0:52:59 > 0:53:01- So I'm out.- Thanks.- Thank you.
0:53:05 > 0:53:06- HILARY:- Um...
0:53:14 > 0:53:21I feel the same, because I think the risk to ratio is worth 30%, so...
0:53:21 > 0:53:24And I think you've got a brilliant guy in Theo,
0:53:24 > 0:53:26so I'm going to declare myself out.
0:53:30 > 0:53:33Theo Paphitis seems to have outmanoeuvred his rivals
0:53:33 > 0:53:37as two more Dragons decide against making an offer.
0:53:37 > 0:53:41Just Peter Jones remains. Will he now choose to enter the fray?
0:53:43 > 0:53:45Guys, um...
0:53:45 > 0:53:48I think that you seem very impressive to me,
0:53:48 > 0:53:52because you've come up with a couple of great ideas.
0:53:52 > 0:53:55But Theo's made you an offer on the back of what you two guys
0:53:55 > 0:53:58can hopefully create.
0:54:01 > 0:54:03I'm not willing to take that risk.
0:54:03 > 0:54:07I see that as one step too far in terms of a punt.
0:54:07 > 0:54:11On the potential of more products in the future as well? I'm only 24.
0:54:11 > 0:54:13I've got plenty of years left in me.
0:54:13 > 0:54:15Well, we can work quick. We can work fast.
0:54:15 > 0:54:17It only took us three and a half months
0:54:17 > 0:54:19to develop this product and get it out there.
0:54:29 > 0:54:31It is a close call.
0:54:33 > 0:54:35I'm going to pass on the opportunity,
0:54:35 > 0:54:37but I think this is a clever product.
0:54:38 > 0:54:42I'm not convinced that you're going to create a business out of it.
0:54:44 > 0:54:46- So I'm going to say I'm out. - OK, thank you.
0:54:53 > 0:54:57So, £50,000 for 10% equity, that's what we're after.
0:54:57 > 0:55:00And you offered us 30% for 50,000, yeah?
0:55:03 > 0:55:06We wouldn't have come here if we weren't looking for someone else
0:55:06 > 0:55:09to come and invest into us, push the business forward.
0:55:12 > 0:55:16- Where can we negotiate on the percentage?- It's dead easy.
0:55:18 > 0:55:22Anything less than 30% just doesn't cut it for me.
0:55:22 > 0:55:25Honestly, it just doesn't make it worthwhile for the investment
0:55:25 > 0:55:28in, not just money. It's time as well.
0:55:30 > 0:55:32I made my offer first,
0:55:32 > 0:55:38so any of the other Dragons could have come in and undercut me.
0:55:38 > 0:55:40But actually, they didn't.
0:55:42 > 0:55:46- So it tells me that I pitched it incredibly generously.- OK.
0:55:46 > 0:55:48Bearing in mind the risk-reward ratio.
0:55:52 > 0:55:57If this comes off, can we sort out a buy-back clause?
0:55:59 > 0:56:02We don't know... What does "come off" mean?
0:56:02 > 0:56:04Well, if the trial goes ahead,
0:56:04 > 0:56:08and then it goes into the rest of the takeaway chains around the world.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11So, what you are saying to me is, why don't you take the risk
0:56:11 > 0:56:16while it's rubbish, and if it comes really good, we will get rid of you?
0:56:16 > 0:56:21Not get rid of you. We just want to...
0:56:21 > 0:56:24We say that is going to come off. It will.
0:56:25 > 0:56:28But guys, honestly, the time and effort
0:56:28 > 0:56:30I'd have to invest in your business,
0:56:30 > 0:56:35it is either we're all in it together, or we're not.
0:56:39 > 0:56:43- Yeah. Do you want to go...? - Yes.- We'd like to take your offer.
0:56:43 > 0:56:45- We are happy to take the offer. - There, we've got a deal!
0:56:45 > 0:56:50- I was worried.- There you go. Congratulations.
0:56:50 > 0:56:52- Chris and Luke have done it. - Thank you.
0:56:52 > 0:56:55They may have parted with more equity than they wanted,
0:56:55 > 0:56:59but they leave with an influential new business partner on board.
0:56:59 > 0:57:02- I'm backing two young guys trying to make it work.- They are clever.
0:57:02 > 0:57:04That they've come up with.
0:57:04 > 0:57:08Working from home, low cost-base, not drawing any money.
0:57:08 > 0:57:09And a patent.
0:57:13 > 0:57:16My legs went to jelly when they were going down the stairs.
0:57:16 > 0:57:19I was really nervous when I went in, but after a little bit,
0:57:19 > 0:57:23I tried to compose myself and get on with it as best we could.
0:57:23 > 0:57:27We're glad for the investment from Theo. It's really great.
0:57:27 > 0:57:29Hopefully we will touch base with him
0:57:29 > 0:57:31and see where we can push things forward.
0:57:40 > 0:57:43Another day in the Den, and another couple of investments.
0:57:43 > 0:57:46But there's one point I can't repeat enough.
0:57:46 > 0:57:49Which is, of course, why I repeat it every series.
0:57:49 > 0:57:52It may be tough getting the financial backing here,
0:57:52 > 0:57:56but it's even tougher building a successful business.
0:57:56 > 0:57:58The hard work starts now.
0:57:58 > 0:58:01To find out more about what a typical filming day
0:58:01 > 0:58:04for a Dragon involves, press the red button now,
0:58:04 > 0:58:08where you'll get exclusive behind-the-scenes footage.
0:58:08 > 0:58:09Goodbye.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12- Next week in the Den:- In my chair, why would you invest?
0:58:12 > 0:58:17- Who's going to buy it? - Frankly, you've done it wrong.
0:58:17 > 0:58:19Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's my money you're talking about.
0:58:19 > 0:58:23I've had a couple of boats, but I've never had a box. Never wanted one.
0:58:23 > 0:58:25I've got a passion for pina colada.
0:58:26 > 0:58:29Do you understand the dilemma you've left me in?
0:58:29 > 0:58:32Everybody needs a little bit of luck sometimes.
0:58:32 > 0:58:35I am desperately keen to make you an offer.
0:58:56 > 0:58:59Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd