0:00:26 > 0:00:30These are the Dragons, five of Britain's wealthiest
0:00:30 > 0:00:32and most enterprising business leaders.
0:00:32 > 0:00:34Over the coming weeks,
0:00:34 > 0:00:39they'll make or break the dreams of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:40 > 0:00:43It must have been a hell of a jolly boys' outing that you lot went on.
0:00:43 > 0:00:47Your knowledge is exceptionally weak.
0:00:47 > 0:00:50I want more because I think that I'm worth more.
0:00:50 > 0:00:54At that rate, you'll be building my coffin for me before I get my investment back.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04The multi-millionaire investors have each built up
0:01:04 > 0:01:06their fortunes from scratch.
0:01:10 > 0:01:12Retail magnate Theo Paphitis,
0:01:12 > 0:01:17hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne,
0:01:17 > 0:01:20leisure industry expert Deborah MeaDen,
0:01:20 > 0:01:23queen of logistics Hilary Devey,
0:01:23 > 0:01:27and telecoms giant Peter Jones.
0:01:27 > 0:01:30the Dragons have the credentials, the contacts, the commitment
0:01:30 > 0:01:34and the cash ready to invest, but only in the right business.
0:01:37 > 0:01:39Will any of these hopeful entrepreneurs
0:01:39 > 0:01:42walk away with their money?
0:01:48 > 0:01:50Here in the Dragons' Den,
0:01:50 > 0:01:55we confront the immovable optimism of cash-hungry entrepreneurs
0:01:55 > 0:02:00with the irresistible scrutiny of our five multi-millionaire Dragons.
0:02:00 > 0:02:04The entrepreneurs want the Dragons to invest in their businesses.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07the Dragons want to know whether those businesses
0:02:07 > 0:02:08have a good product to sell.
0:02:08 > 0:02:11Can any deals be reached in the Den today?
0:02:11 > 0:02:15Our first entrepreneur is dog lover Marie Sawle
0:02:15 > 0:02:17with her unusual new product.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20Will the Dragons think it has investment potential?
0:02:43 > 0:02:47Hello, Dragons. My name is Marie and this is Margot.
0:02:49 > 0:02:52I'm here today to ask you for £60,000
0:02:52 > 0:02:55in return for 20% of my company.
0:02:56 > 0:03:01Billy + Margot is the first company in the UK to produce and sell
0:03:01 > 0:03:03iced treats for dogs.
0:03:03 > 0:03:08It all began some time ago with Billy, our first pet Labrador.
0:03:08 > 0:03:12In the summer, we often had an ice cream van come and stop outside.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15It didn't take him long to recognise the van's tune
0:03:15 > 0:03:19and associate it with his favourite treat.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21At the time, I was training to become a nutritionist
0:03:21 > 0:03:25and it concerned me that some of the ingredients in those ice creams
0:03:25 > 0:03:27were not particularly good for Billy
0:03:27 > 0:03:30and I decided to develop my own version of an ice cream for dogs.
0:03:30 > 0:03:35Billy + Margot were released at Crufts for the first time
0:03:35 > 0:03:37with our first two flavours.
0:03:37 > 0:03:39We have found a manufacturer,
0:03:39 > 0:03:43agreed terms with a national distributor
0:03:43 > 0:03:46and we have recruited a number of retail partners.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49Sadly, Billy's no longer with us,
0:03:49 > 0:03:53but Margot here has gladly taken the role of chief taster.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55Thank you for listening.
0:03:55 > 0:03:59May I ask you to maybe give Margot a treat?
0:03:59 > 0:04:00I will give you...
0:04:02 > 0:04:04..an ice treat.
0:04:04 > 0:04:08French-born entrepreneur Marie Sawle needs a £60,000 investment
0:04:08 > 0:04:13in her doggy ice treats to help convince the nation's animal-lovers
0:04:13 > 0:04:15this is the latest way to indulge their pet.
0:04:15 > 0:04:19In return, she is offering 20% of the company.
0:04:19 > 0:04:23However, Peter Jones looks less intrigued by the business itself.
0:04:26 > 0:04:29Is it just for dogs or can I...?
0:04:29 > 0:04:31You can, the ingredients are human grade.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41- Quite nice.- It is tasty.
0:04:41 > 0:04:43Margot, look at this.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46He's teasing Margot.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50- She likes it then?- She does. - It tastes very nice.
0:04:50 > 0:04:54We've chosen apple and strawberries, carrot and banana,
0:04:54 > 0:04:56which are fruit and vegetables that dogs love.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59So, Marie, tell me a little bit about the business
0:04:59 > 0:05:02because you've said you got a national distributor.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04What does that mean?
0:05:04 > 0:05:08They've agreed to take pallets of the product
0:05:08 > 0:05:12and deliver to the retailers that I have recruited.
0:05:12 > 0:05:16- Have they given you an order? - They have.
0:05:16 > 0:05:23It's about 6,000 units, which is approximately just under £5,000.
0:05:23 > 0:05:28My last question, what would that cost in a retail store?
0:05:28 > 0:05:32- £2.99.- Wow.
0:05:32 > 0:05:34But it's very much in line with dog treats
0:05:34 > 0:05:37and at Crufts in four days, we sold 500 tubs.
0:05:41 > 0:05:46A composed Marie handles the quick-fire questions with ease,
0:05:46 > 0:05:50but Hilary Devey wants to take a different tack.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54How much input have the veterinary surgeons had into this product?
0:05:54 > 0:05:57Not that much of an input.
0:05:58 > 0:06:01I just felt that being a nutritionist myself,
0:06:01 > 0:06:03I was able to use this background,
0:06:03 > 0:06:07although just as part of branding, I think it will be important
0:06:07 > 0:06:12to have a pet nutritionist on board to endorse the product.
0:06:12 > 0:06:15Talk to me about the supply chain of this.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18How much does it cost you to actually manufacture?
0:06:18 > 0:06:21It's 46p cost.
0:06:21 > 0:06:26I sell it to a wholesaler for 87p plus VAT.
0:06:26 > 0:06:31They then sell it on to a retailer at £1.25 plus VAT.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34What are your aspirations?
0:06:34 > 0:06:37I don't just want it to be a product, I want it to become a brand.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40I want it to become a household brand for dog owners.
0:06:40 > 0:06:44For the last nine months, I've put my life into this.
0:06:44 > 0:06:47I want to turn it into a success and at the moment,
0:06:47 > 0:06:51with these orders coming through, I work 14 to 18 hours a day.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54Well done. You have to.
0:06:55 > 0:06:58Ambitious, well-qualified, dedicated.
0:06:58 > 0:07:01All valuable attributes for a potential investee,
0:07:01 > 0:07:05but the Den looks to be split, and not all the Dragons are impressed.
0:07:06 > 0:07:10- I'm sorry, I think this is absolutely ridiculous.- OK.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14It really is something that you have wasted nine months on
0:07:14 > 0:07:16and you could waste more time on it.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21The margin's not big enough. It's too expensive to produce.
0:07:21 > 0:07:26You're absolutely right in terms of the margin.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29I need to achieve a better margin and a better return
0:07:29 > 0:07:32and I can only do that by reducing my costs.
0:07:32 > 0:07:34That goes down with economy of scale.
0:07:34 > 0:07:37You can't drive your prices down without having
0:07:37 > 0:07:41a huge manufacturing facility to manufacture your ice cream.
0:07:41 > 0:07:45You say the price is in line with doggy treats, but it's not in line
0:07:45 > 0:07:49with ice cream, and people will still buy ice cream for their dogs.
0:07:49 > 0:07:53You're wasting your time on this.
0:07:53 > 0:07:56There's no margin in it. There's no money in it.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59It's not going to sell.
0:07:59 > 0:08:03- I'm out.- Thank you.
0:08:03 > 0:08:04A first blow for Marie
0:08:04 > 0:08:08as Duncan Bannatyne slams her business prospects.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10Will Peter Jones find anything
0:08:10 > 0:08:13to help bring Marie's pitch back on track?
0:08:15 > 0:08:17I think your brand's very good
0:08:17 > 0:08:19and I think your positioning is interesting.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22I can't work out whether this is a real business.
0:08:22 > 0:08:25I'll tell you why, I don't think you've given
0:08:25 > 0:08:29a very good pitch in terms of the market.
0:08:29 > 0:08:33Give me a feeling for this industry or sector.
0:08:33 > 0:08:39OK, there are a few leading brands in the UK for dog treats.
0:08:39 > 0:08:43For example, Lily's Kitchen. Their model was very similar to mine.
0:08:43 > 0:08:45Do you know how many they sold?
0:08:45 > 0:08:47I'm sorry, Peter, I don't know.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50What I'm saying is do you have any information,
0:08:50 > 0:08:52financial information, on a potential competitor?
0:08:52 > 0:08:55No, because I have no competitor.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57No-one else is doing it.
0:08:57 > 0:09:00I want to be completely unique which is what this is.
0:09:00 > 0:09:02But how do you know you can make money doing that?
0:09:02 > 0:09:05You've got nobody to benchmark against.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07There is a very similar concept in the US.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10Nestle launched in the US about four years ago
0:09:10 > 0:09:13something called Frosty Paws. It's a very similar concept.
0:09:13 > 0:09:17Do you know their revenue? Do you know their profitability?
0:09:17 > 0:09:19Unfortunately, their information, being in the US,
0:09:19 > 0:09:22I haven't been able to access their figures.
0:09:22 > 0:09:24Do you see the problem, Marie?
0:09:24 > 0:09:28You're pitching something where actually you don't really understand
0:09:28 > 0:09:31the market place you're entering.
0:09:31 > 0:09:33Your knowledge is exceptionally weak.
0:09:33 > 0:09:35You've done no real market research.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38- I did all that.- No, you didn't.
0:09:38 > 0:09:39No, I did my market-research...
0:09:39 > 0:09:43Market research to you might be the product and what they're selling.
0:09:43 > 0:09:45Market research to me, as an investor,
0:09:45 > 0:09:47is pounds, shillings and pence.
0:09:47 > 0:09:48Sure.
0:09:48 > 0:09:54- Marie, I'm not going to invest and I'm out.- Thank you, Peter.
0:09:56 > 0:10:00Two Dragons out and Marie's hopes of investment are starting to fade.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04Theo Paphitis has now made up his mind too.
0:10:05 > 0:10:10You have done well, you've created the product and you've sold it,
0:10:10 > 0:10:13but what you're not doing is selling me.
0:10:13 > 0:10:15"This is something, Theo, put your money in."
0:10:15 > 0:10:20- Dragons are here, I'm here to invest.- Of course you are.
0:10:20 > 0:10:23You haven't managed to convince me or excite me.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26I very much doubt if it's going to be a big business,
0:10:26 > 0:10:29- so I'm going to wish you luck and say I'm out.- Thank you, Theo.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37- Marie.- Yes, Hilary.
0:10:37 > 0:10:42I disagree entirely with what Peter, Duncan and Theo have said.
0:10:42 > 0:10:44Thank you.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47I'll tell you why.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50Go to Harrods on a Sunday.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55They now sell doggy cupcakes.
0:10:55 > 0:10:59There are queues to buy those doggy cupcakes.
0:11:00 > 0:11:05I was recently in Miami.
0:11:05 > 0:11:10I was amazed to see doggy ice cream selling equally as much
0:11:10 > 0:11:13as normal ice cream.
0:11:14 > 0:11:17I think you are on to something.
0:11:20 > 0:11:23I'm going to make you an offer.
0:11:25 > 0:11:27I know they're absolutely amazed.
0:11:29 > 0:11:31I'm going to offer you the full 60K...
0:11:34 > 0:11:38..but I'd like 30% of the business.
0:11:41 > 0:11:46A dramatic turn of events as Marie finally finds a Dragon
0:11:46 > 0:11:49to share her vision at a price.
0:11:49 > 0:11:53Hilary Devey wants far more of the business than the 20% on offer,
0:11:53 > 0:11:57but Deborah Meaden has been unusually quiet.
0:12:00 > 0:12:05This market in these difficult times is a market that is expanding.
0:12:05 > 0:12:09What's happened in it is there are a lot of individual brands like this
0:12:09 > 0:12:11that have been bought up by the big suppliers.
0:12:11 > 0:12:13I've got one down the road from me.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15Everybody thinks they're an independent,
0:12:15 > 0:12:18they're not an independent. They've been bought up.
0:12:18 > 0:12:22Owners want to feel like their animals are having something special
0:12:22 > 0:12:26and something different, so there's no big announcement
0:12:26 > 0:12:29that says "Whiskas has bought so-and-so,"
0:12:29 > 0:12:32they just swallow them up, acquire them,
0:12:32 > 0:12:35and just keep selling them as individuals.
0:12:35 > 0:12:41I am staggered at the amount of money spent on animal treats.
0:12:41 > 0:12:43I like this.
0:12:43 > 0:12:46I think there's a market. There's definitely a gap.
0:12:46 > 0:12:48There are acquirers out there
0:12:48 > 0:12:51looking for brands to own market share,
0:12:51 > 0:12:54so the market conditions are right
0:12:54 > 0:12:59for a reasonably short growth, turnaround, exit.
0:13:01 > 0:13:05So, I have a very clear vision of what we could do with this
0:13:05 > 0:13:09and I am very well acquainted with a brand that has been through
0:13:09 > 0:13:11a very similar route.
0:13:11 > 0:13:15I'm going to make you an offer.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19I'm afraid I want more of the equity.
0:13:19 > 0:13:21Because I think that I'm worth more.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29I'm going to offer you £60,000,
0:13:29 > 0:13:33but I want 40% of the business.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38OK.
0:13:41 > 0:13:44I've got to say that I'm also, not just Deborah,
0:13:44 > 0:13:48acquainted with large brands as well.
0:13:48 > 0:13:49OK.
0:13:55 > 0:13:58May I take just a few seconds just to...?
0:14:06 > 0:14:07OK.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15I'm incredibly grateful for both your offers,
0:14:15 > 0:14:19considering what you have all said before.
0:14:24 > 0:14:27I would like to accept your offer.
0:14:27 > 0:14:29Excellent.
0:14:30 > 0:14:33Marie has done it.
0:14:33 > 0:14:36She sold off double the equity she initially intended,
0:14:36 > 0:14:37but sometimes in business,
0:14:37 > 0:14:40a clear strategy comes with a higher price tag.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49the Den has witnessed its fair share of battles,
0:14:49 > 0:14:51but thankfully they've all been of the business variety.
0:14:51 > 0:14:55Stuart Davies from Weston-super-Mare changed all that as he sought
0:14:55 > 0:14:59investment in his new mixed martial arts fighting tournament.
0:15:01 > 0:15:04Fight Factor is a national talent competition
0:15:04 > 0:15:05for martial artists throughout the UK.
0:15:05 > 0:15:08Think of it as the equivalent to X Factor for fighters.
0:15:08 > 0:15:13I'd like to introduce Julie Kitchen, 14 times world champion Thai boxer
0:15:13 > 0:15:17to demonstrate the skill level that's needed for this tournament.
0:15:31 > 0:15:34Impressed by the display,
0:15:34 > 0:15:36it was Duncan Bannatyne who began the first round.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39OK, Stuart. You look a handy lad yourself so what's your background?
0:15:39 > 0:15:43I've been involved in martial arts since I was nine years old.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45I won a world title in Denmark in 2001.
0:15:45 > 0:15:49- I mean, how do you monetise it? - Ticket sales.
0:15:49 > 0:15:51The shows that I've done in the past
0:15:51 > 0:15:54have sold between 880 to 1,000 tickets
0:15:54 > 0:15:59with no marketing spend. This business just need the exposure.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03Stuart showed he was adept at a bit of business sparring.
0:16:03 > 0:16:05Stuart, I know nothing about this.
0:16:05 > 0:16:08It feels like there might be somebody out there
0:16:08 > 0:16:09who can add more value than just cash.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12We can teach you.
0:16:13 > 0:16:17But in the end, it was Theo Paphitis who delivered the knockout blow.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21- Honestly, I'm going to give you some advice here.- OK.
0:16:21 > 0:16:23You should not be doing this on your own.
0:16:23 > 0:16:28You will need to bring in a broadcast/promotional partner
0:16:28 > 0:16:31and you certainly shouldn't be doing it with someone like me
0:16:31 > 0:16:34who also has not got the experience.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36I just like watching it.
0:16:36 > 0:16:37I'm out.
0:16:40 > 0:16:45Since Strictly Come Dancing exploded on to our screens in 2004,
0:16:45 > 0:16:47more people in the UK than ever before
0:16:47 > 0:16:49take part in ballroom dancing.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52University lecturer Nicholas Gallagher-Hughes
0:16:52 > 0:16:55thinks that this fact alone has the potential
0:16:55 > 0:16:58to turn his hobby into a money-making business.
0:16:58 > 0:17:00But will the Dragons agree?
0:17:22 > 0:17:26MUSIC: "Cry Me A River" by Michael Buble
0:18:07 > 0:18:09Hello.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11My name is Nick Gallagher-Hughes
0:18:11 > 0:18:16and I'm here today to try and encourage you to invest £97,500
0:18:16 > 0:18:18for a 15% share of the company.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26Topline Dance Frame is a tuition aid
0:18:26 > 0:18:30designed to assist the ballroom dancer
0:18:30 > 0:18:34overcome the problems that they have when they are learning to dance.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37I'm just going to fit them on now to show you how easily they fit
0:18:37 > 0:18:39if I can get Robin to come in.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44And Graham.
0:18:49 > 0:18:53What the frame instantly does
0:18:53 > 0:18:56is improves not only the posture and the stance,
0:18:56 > 0:18:59but it encourages core rotation.
0:19:00 > 0:19:06In 2010, it was launched at the British National Dance Championships
0:19:06 > 0:19:09in Blackpool where it received very favourable feedback.
0:19:09 > 0:19:11It is an affluent market.
0:19:11 > 0:19:13The average ballroom dancer in this country
0:19:13 > 0:19:17spends between five and £20,000 a year.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20With your expertise,
0:19:20 > 0:19:23we hope we can make this product grow into a worldwide phenomenon.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28The only way you can see if this product works is you try it on.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31- I invite you to try it on. - I'll try it.- Thank you.
0:19:34 > 0:19:38A theatrical pitch from Hereford's Nick Gallagher-Hughes
0:19:38 > 0:19:41as he brings a touch of sequins and sparkle into the Den.
0:19:41 > 0:19:44I'm going to put a large frame on you, you are very tall.
0:19:44 > 0:19:47The assured entrepreneur is hoping
0:19:47 > 0:19:50that 15% of his ballroom dance training invention
0:19:50 > 0:19:53is worth a precise £97,500 of investment.
0:19:53 > 0:19:55My arms are aching.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57Before settling in to questioning,
0:19:57 > 0:20:00one Dragon in particular wants to try out the product.
0:20:00 > 0:20:04- Oh, are you waltzing?- I'm waltzing.
0:20:04 > 0:20:06He's going to... CLATTERING
0:20:06 > 0:20:09LAUGHTER
0:20:11 > 0:20:12Thank you.
0:20:12 > 0:20:15APPLAUSE
0:20:15 > 0:20:17Stick to your day job.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26I really enjoyed the dance, thank you very much,
0:20:26 > 0:20:29and I hope I didn't hurt your back over the stand.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33Nick, I thought it was brilliant. It worked.
0:20:33 > 0:20:37It actually wasn't as uncomfortable as I thought it would be.
0:20:37 > 0:20:40We all know Strictly Come Dancing.
0:20:40 > 0:20:45It's clearly raised the profile of ballroom dancing for sure.
0:20:45 > 0:20:47What about a celebrity endorsement?
0:20:47 > 0:20:49I'm actually working with a gentleman
0:20:49 > 0:20:52who is the former world champion ballroom dancer
0:20:52 > 0:20:56- to become our new international ambassador.- OK.
0:20:56 > 0:20:58You haven't got Brendan, Anton, Ola, Natalie.
0:20:58 > 0:21:01Can I say with no disrespect to them,
0:21:01 > 0:21:03they are known in Britain and that's it.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08A confident start from the experienced ballroom dancer,
0:21:08 > 0:21:12but how will he fare under the scrutiny of Hilary Devey?
0:21:16 > 0:21:18Hi, Nick. I'm Hilary.
0:21:18 > 0:21:22- Tell me how you got into this. - How did I get into it?
0:21:22 > 0:21:26About 20-plus years ago, I had a very bad motorbike accident,
0:21:26 > 0:21:28and I broke my shoulder in three places.
0:21:28 > 0:21:32When I started dancing, I literally had trouble holding my arm up.
0:21:32 > 0:21:36I am a cyclist as well and I was on my drop handlebar bike
0:21:36 > 0:21:38and looked at the shape.
0:21:38 > 0:21:41It was one of those lightbulb moments.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45- How many have you sold to date? - To date, we've sold 487.
0:21:45 > 0:21:49- You've sold at what cost? - Average price is 105.
0:21:49 > 0:21:53That's the retail price so what's your cost?
0:21:53 > 0:21:56It cost me just under £20 per unit.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59Nick, how much money have you made out of selling these?
0:21:59 > 0:22:01What's your profit over the period you've started selling them?
0:22:01 > 0:22:05To be honest, we actually made a loss in the first year of £2,200.
0:22:05 > 0:22:06How did you make that loss?
0:22:06 > 0:22:09What were your costs, what were your overheads?
0:22:09 > 0:22:11Attending trade fairs. A trade fair will cost us £3,000.
0:22:11 > 0:22:14Nick, I knew you were going to say attending trade fairs.
0:22:14 > 0:22:17This is the problem with trade fairs.
0:22:17 > 0:22:21If it costs you £500 to attend and you make £400 profit,
0:22:21 > 0:22:22you've lost on that day on the trade fair
0:22:22 > 0:22:25and there's no huge benefit to you.
0:22:25 > 0:22:27If it wasn't for the trade fairs,
0:22:27 > 0:22:30we wouldn't be in the position we are now.
0:22:30 > 0:22:34- We look at our figures... - Nick, Nick, Nick.
0:22:34 > 0:22:36If it wasn't for spending money on trade fairs,
0:22:36 > 0:22:38you wouldn't have made a loss.
0:22:38 > 0:22:41Trade fairs all round the world don't work according to Duncan.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44I never said that! I never said that, Theo.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Not everything that goes to a trade fair becomes profitable
0:22:47 > 0:22:50just because it came to a trade fair. Let's take it another way.
0:22:50 > 0:22:54Let's look at your projections going forward from this year.
0:22:56 > 0:22:59- If you don't know... - Wholesale at full price, sorry...
0:22:59 > 0:23:06I'm talking about the revenue that you expect to gain
0:23:06 > 0:23:09by selling this product over the next year.
0:23:09 > 0:23:12100 frames is £10,000 per month.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14That wasn't difficult to answer, was it?
0:23:14 > 0:23:16No. Difficult question to understand.
0:23:20 > 0:23:24The atmosphere turns tetchy, but Nick refuses to back down.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28Can Theo Paphitis bring a little order to proceedings?
0:23:31 > 0:23:34I think it does what it says on the tin.
0:23:34 > 0:23:38I can see it's simple, so is there anything else like that gadget?
0:23:38 > 0:23:42There is actually something in America.
0:23:42 > 0:23:45It is one big lump of metal covered in spray foam.
0:23:45 > 0:23:48I have actually spoken to the gentleman in America and he says
0:23:48 > 0:23:50he wishes he had done it like I've done it.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52How many did he sell?
0:23:52 > 0:23:56He sold a couple of hundred in about eight years.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58Nick, hi, I'm Deborah.
0:23:58 > 0:24:02We used to have dance festivals actually at our holiday parks.
0:24:02 > 0:24:06Quite big ones. The amount of trade that used to be done
0:24:06 > 0:24:10on the ancillary stuff was nuts and that's really what it was all about.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13I actually get that. I can imagine exactly where you sell it.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15I get completely how much people spend,
0:24:15 > 0:24:19but this is not a mass-market product.
0:24:19 > 0:24:23I'd have to take an awful lot of your business off you
0:24:23 > 0:24:25for me to be at all convinced
0:24:25 > 0:24:28that I would get any kind of return on my investment.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30You're not going to want me to take more than half
0:24:30 > 0:24:32your business off you. I'm sure about that.
0:24:32 > 0:24:37Before we even embark on that route, I might as well tell you now, Nick,
0:24:37 > 0:24:41- it's not for me. - Thank you very much.
0:24:43 > 0:24:47Calmness may have been restored, but Nick has lost his first Dragon.
0:24:47 > 0:24:52It looks like Hilary Devey has made up her mind too.
0:24:55 > 0:24:59I think you've answered a problem with a solution, haven't you?
0:24:59 > 0:25:02You've certainly all got fantastic postures
0:25:02 > 0:25:06so it must be doing something for you.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09It's not something that I'm familiar with.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11I've never done ballroom dancing
0:25:11 > 0:25:15other than a waltz after half a bottle of wine
0:25:15 > 0:25:17and I've probably not done it very well.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20- I've got to say I'm out.- Thank you.
0:25:20 > 0:25:24Nick, bottom line is this has been out and about
0:25:24 > 0:25:27since November 2010.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29You've sold 400.
0:25:32 > 0:25:37Now, you know your market and I think that's the point.
0:25:37 > 0:25:41You don't need me because I can't open any doors for you.
0:25:41 > 0:25:45The money alone is not enough.
0:25:45 > 0:25:49It needs people understanding its benefits,
0:25:49 > 0:25:53establishing the product and waxing lyrical about it.
0:25:53 > 0:25:58- So I'm afraid I'm out.- OK.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01Nick, I think you've pitched this brilliantly
0:26:01 > 0:26:03and if it was £20,000, I have to say,
0:26:03 > 0:26:06I think I probably would have said I'm in.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09But because it's 97,500,
0:26:09 > 0:26:13I'm unfortunately going to have to say, Nick, I'm out.
0:26:13 > 0:26:18Some kind words, but it's bad news on the investment front.
0:26:18 > 0:26:22It doesn't look like Nick will get a reprieve from Duncan Bannatyne.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30- Where are these trade shows that you want to attend?- The German Open.
0:26:30 > 0:26:34The German Open is the biggest in the world. It has three dance halls.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38There's the Dutch Open, there's Hong Kong, there's China.
0:26:41 > 0:26:43You want to, with the £97,500,
0:26:43 > 0:26:50attend trade shows flying round the world, staying in nice hotels.
0:26:50 > 0:26:52I wish, it's usually cheap bed and breakfast.
0:26:52 > 0:26:55Flying round the world, staying in bed and breakfasts.
0:26:55 > 0:26:56Driving around Europe, usually.
0:27:01 > 0:27:04Nick, I think you're just here on a wing and a prayer and you think,
0:27:04 > 0:27:07"I've got something here that I've made, I want to sell some,
0:27:07 > 0:27:10"I want to travel round the world."
0:27:12 > 0:27:14Your opinion, Mr Bannatyne. Your opinion.
0:27:21 > 0:27:25- Thanks, Nick, I'm out. - Thank you all very much.
0:27:27 > 0:27:31Nick Stood his ground well, but to no avail.
0:27:31 > 0:27:33He leaves with nothing.
0:27:40 > 0:27:44The best entrepreneurs are by nature problem solvers
0:27:44 > 0:27:47and it's those problems that often provide the inspiration
0:27:47 > 0:27:48for their business idea.
0:27:48 > 0:27:52For Londoners Shaff Prabatani, Jay Bryan and Ben Rogers,
0:27:52 > 0:27:56their idea was to solve the problem of limited storage for householders.
0:27:56 > 0:27:59Jay moves into his house and has some spare room in his loft.
0:27:59 > 0:28:02Someone searching for storage space taps in his postcode,
0:28:02 > 0:28:04they contact each other through the site
0:28:04 > 0:28:06and officially become Storemates.
0:28:06 > 0:28:10We're the world's first online storage sharing service.
0:28:10 > 0:28:13The trio certainly made an impression in the Den.
0:28:13 > 0:28:17I can't help saying, when you came in I thought you were going to sing.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20Because the three of you, the two with glasses wearing blue shirt,
0:28:20 > 0:28:23and one with no glasses wearing a green shirt - it's a little boy group!
0:28:23 > 0:28:26LAUGHTER
0:28:26 > 0:28:29But the Dragons quickly spotted a fundamental flaw in their business concept.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33You don't think there's a slight security issue here?
0:28:33 > 0:28:36It's a great question, because that's the first thing my mum said to me.
0:28:36 > 0:28:38If you sign up to it, you have to create a profile.
0:28:38 > 0:28:45Yeah, but if I was a bad man, I could quite easily create a profile,
0:28:45 > 0:28:48and I could store some bad, bad, bad things in somebody's house.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52There's a contract, you have to go through an inventory.
0:28:52 > 0:28:55And there's a review system, similar to Amazon or eBay,
0:28:55 > 0:28:58and there's guidelines around safe and secure storage.
0:28:59 > 0:29:03It was Deborah Meaden who summed up the mood in the Den.
0:29:03 > 0:29:05You're nice guys.
0:29:05 > 0:29:08The problem is, you're relying on everybody being the people you are.
0:29:08 > 0:29:12And this is ripe for somebody to take advantage of.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15You don't even know if the stuff you're storing
0:29:15 > 0:29:18belongs to those people. You have no idea.
0:29:18 > 0:29:19- I'm out.- Thank you.
0:29:20 > 0:29:23So far tonight, only one entrepreneur has done enough
0:29:23 > 0:29:27to secure the backing of multimillionaire investor.
0:29:27 > 0:29:30I would like to accept your offer.
0:29:30 > 0:29:31Excellent!
0:29:31 > 0:29:35For an insight into Deborah Meaden's decision to invest in Marie's
0:29:35 > 0:29:38doggie ice treats, press the red button at the end of the programme.
0:29:41 > 0:29:44If you ever go to rock festivals, listen up
0:29:44 > 0:29:47and see what you think of our next entrepreneur's product.
0:29:47 > 0:29:50Dustin Toland used to design golf courses,
0:29:50 > 0:29:52but he's expanded his range.
0:29:52 > 0:29:55I wonder if the Dragons will be inspired to invest.
0:30:21 > 0:30:22Hello.
0:30:22 > 0:30:25My name's Dustin Toland, I'm here today for £100,000 investment
0:30:25 > 0:30:29in Gigwam for 15% of the company.
0:30:29 > 0:30:32First, I'd like to show you some of the unique features of this product.
0:30:32 > 0:30:36You'll see, initially, there's no pole inside.
0:30:36 > 0:30:39This is because we have a flexible pole
0:30:39 > 0:30:42which creates tension on the fly sheet.
0:30:42 > 0:30:45This means there's no need for any internal supports.
0:30:45 > 0:30:49You'll see, secondly, there are many access panels,
0:30:49 > 0:30:52there can be up to eight, and these are some of the multiplications
0:30:52 > 0:30:55of that that can be done, and it can go on infinitely.
0:30:55 > 0:30:57This is all protected by a design registration in Europe
0:30:57 > 0:31:01and America, and an international patent is pending
0:31:01 > 0:31:02and could be granted later this year.
0:31:02 > 0:31:04And that's everything I'd like to show you,
0:31:04 > 0:31:07so I'd be happy to take your questions.
0:31:07 > 0:31:09- Can I look inside it? - I'd love you to, yes.
0:31:14 > 0:31:17A rather brief pitch from Dustin Toland from Kent,
0:31:17 > 0:31:21who's hoping his eye-catching tent design will do the talking.
0:31:21 > 0:31:23- Meet you in the middle?- All right.
0:31:23 > 0:31:27He needs £100,000 to launch his start-up company
0:31:27 > 0:31:30and is willing to give away a 15% stake.
0:31:31 > 0:31:33Theo Paphitis appears intrigued.
0:31:38 > 0:31:39- Dustin.- Yes.
0:31:39 > 0:31:42- What is your background? - I build golf courses.
0:31:42 > 0:31:44- That's your living? - Yes, it is, yes.- OK.
0:31:44 > 0:31:48And you decided you're going to invent or create a tent.
0:31:48 > 0:31:50Correct.
0:31:50 > 0:31:52And what was the inspiration behind it?
0:31:52 > 0:31:55Um, the name, actually.
0:31:55 > 0:31:59The name came to mind immediately, I just had an idea about the festivals.
0:31:59 > 0:32:02From that, I came up with a tepee-type tent
0:32:02 > 0:32:05and a way of eliminating the pole from the middle of it,
0:32:05 > 0:32:08then the connections, and I just ran with it from there.
0:32:08 > 0:32:10That was all in the space of a week or two.
0:32:10 > 0:32:14And how much are you hoping to sell them for?
0:32:14 > 0:32:16£129.99 retail.
0:32:16 > 0:32:19- Retail? - That's with a tunnel, yes.
0:32:19 > 0:32:21So, tell me, how much are you making them for?
0:32:21 > 0:32:24£37, tent and tunnel.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28Where have you got to with regards to distribution?
0:32:28 > 0:32:31I'm in talks with the leading
0:32:31 > 0:32:33catalogue high-street retailer in the UK.
0:32:33 > 0:32:36They wanted exclusivity a couple of years ago.
0:32:36 > 0:32:40A verbal order for 10,000 units was bandied around.
0:32:40 > 0:32:43I wasn't quite ready and I didn't want to rush the production.
0:32:43 > 0:32:46They understood this, completely, and we're in talks again now.
0:32:47 > 0:32:49Businesslike - if somewhat nervy -
0:32:49 > 0:32:52responses from the knowledgeable entrepreneur.
0:32:52 > 0:32:56Will Duncan Bannatyne help Dustin steady his pitch?
0:32:59 > 0:33:02I'm still not convinced. Why would anybody want to do this?
0:33:02 > 0:33:05Well, for example, the tepee-style tent is the only one
0:33:05 > 0:33:08on the market without the pole in the middle.
0:33:08 > 0:33:10The pole takes up a lot of room...
0:33:10 > 0:33:13I think I've seen tepee tents without a pole in the middle before.
0:33:13 > 0:33:16Probably with three sides, which is not actually a tepee.
0:33:16 > 0:33:21And I don't know of another two-person tent on the market
0:33:21 > 0:33:22an adult can stand up in.
0:33:22 > 0:33:24I don't see the advantage of standing up.
0:33:24 > 0:33:27I agree that tepee tents aren't everybody's cup of tea,
0:33:27 > 0:33:31that's a fact, but there is a market for it for its novel factors.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33I don't think you're going to sell it
0:33:33 > 0:33:35just on the basis that it's novel.
0:33:35 > 0:33:37It's contrary to the feedback I've been getting.
0:33:37 > 0:33:39For example, the retailers that are interested
0:33:39 > 0:33:42had a tepee tent, they'd sold 40,000.
0:33:44 > 0:33:48OK. So, let me just go back to you.
0:33:48 > 0:33:51How many golf courses have you designed?
0:33:51 > 0:33:53I've built 18, and designed three or four.
0:33:53 > 0:33:55Are you still doing that?
0:33:55 > 0:33:57I had a company, and the recession hit us.
0:33:57 > 0:33:59I was working for RBS in Scotland.
0:33:59 > 0:34:01Does that mean that you closed it down, paid everybody
0:34:01 > 0:34:04- went for administration or receivership?- No, it was dissolved.
0:34:04 > 0:34:07- And had debts left when it was dissolved?- It had debts.
0:34:07 > 0:34:12- It was around £240,000 to about seven or eight creditors.- Wow.
0:34:12 > 0:34:16- So, you weren't struck off or anything?- No, not at all.
0:34:16 > 0:34:18HE EXHALES
0:34:20 > 0:34:21A difficult exchange,
0:34:21 > 0:34:25but Dustin does now seem to have settled into Den questioning.
0:34:25 > 0:34:28What will leisure industry expert Deborah Meaden make of it all?
0:34:31 > 0:34:33Hi, Dustin, I'm Deborah.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35Um...
0:34:35 > 0:34:37It's important, going into business with somebody,
0:34:37 > 0:34:39to understand what's happened in the past.
0:34:39 > 0:34:41It's not always...
0:34:41 > 0:34:44You know, it's not a crime for a business not to work out.
0:34:44 > 0:34:47So, I'm going to talk about this, you'll be pleased to know.
0:34:47 > 0:34:51I think it looks good. What's your market?
0:34:51 > 0:34:54Initially it was the music festival market with this product,
0:34:54 > 0:34:56but I'd like to expand.
0:34:56 > 0:34:59I have a children's one, called Kidwam,
0:34:59 > 0:35:01that I'll be releasing, for children, obviously.
0:35:01 > 0:35:04And larger versions called Bigwam, which could be four, six,
0:35:04 > 0:35:07and possibly eight-man versions.
0:35:07 > 0:35:09I'd like to expand if it's successful.
0:35:09 > 0:35:11Have you looked at the camping market, at all?
0:35:11 > 0:35:13I'm hoping to look at all camping markets,
0:35:13 > 0:35:16and I'm looking at Southern Hemisphere countries, as well.
0:35:16 > 0:35:18I'm in touch with people in Australia.
0:35:18 > 0:35:20- PETER:- Dustin?- Yes.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23- I think the product looks brilliant. - Thank you.
0:35:23 > 0:35:25And I can see people buying it.
0:35:26 > 0:35:30Because I think it's appealing, it looks quite cool...
0:35:30 > 0:35:36But I am slightly concerned over this patent.
0:35:36 > 0:35:38If I had £100,000 of my money...
0:35:40 > 0:35:43..why couldn't I just replicate something like this?
0:35:43 > 0:35:44If it looked like this,
0:35:44 > 0:35:47you'd have a problem with the design registration...
0:35:47 > 0:35:49When you say "looked like", what do you mean?
0:35:49 > 0:35:53These are covered by design registration, these diagrams here.
0:35:53 > 0:35:55The doorways, the actual structure, the tunnel...
0:35:55 > 0:35:58But if I made that a square opening...
0:35:58 > 0:36:00If you made that a square opening
0:36:00 > 0:36:03you would have to have a much narrower one, or somehow...
0:36:03 > 0:36:05- Well, I'd go wider, wouldn't I? - Yeah.
0:36:05 > 0:36:09I think it looks great, and I can see people buying it,
0:36:09 > 0:36:12but, actually, have you got something here
0:36:12 > 0:36:17that is sufficiently protected to allow such an investment for 15%?
0:36:19 > 0:36:22That's what's going through my head at the moment.
0:36:26 > 0:36:29Dustin's had a topsy-turvy time in the Den so far,
0:36:29 > 0:36:32but there are still five Dragons in.
0:36:32 > 0:36:37Now Duncan Bannatyne looks to have come to a decision.
0:36:38 > 0:36:41Well, I tell you where I am now just now.
0:36:41 > 0:36:42I quite like you.
0:36:42 > 0:36:47And I'd possibly have one for my grandchildren.
0:36:47 > 0:36:48But that is the problem
0:36:48 > 0:36:52I don't think it's going to be bought by serious campers.
0:36:52 > 0:36:54And that's where the big market is.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57There are a million festival goers every year.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00I don't think festival goers are going to be interested in it.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05So, for that reason, I have to say, I'm sorry, but I'm out.
0:37:05 > 0:37:06Thank you.
0:37:07 > 0:37:10Dustin, let me tell you where I am.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13I like the looks of it, but it's just simply not my bag.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15- I'm not into camping... - No, I understand.
0:37:15 > 0:37:19I don't see myself investing in this,
0:37:19 > 0:37:20so, for that reason, I'm out.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27Kind words about the product, but no cash.
0:37:27 > 0:37:31And now Deborah Meaden is ready to show her hand, too.
0:37:32 > 0:37:37I've been sitting here struggling with it, because I think
0:37:37 > 0:37:40you're not clear exactly which market you think
0:37:40 > 0:37:42this is going to take.
0:37:42 > 0:37:46Because it is a different product, the tent you put in your garden,
0:37:46 > 0:37:51to the tent you actually go and sleep in when you're going
0:37:51 > 0:37:54to a festival, to the tent your family takes
0:37:54 > 0:37:55to go on a camping holiday.
0:37:58 > 0:38:00But I think it's got a market.
0:38:00 > 0:38:02It's nice.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05The wigwam idea is nice, and actually the standing up
0:38:05 > 0:38:07when you put your socks on is quite handy.
0:38:07 > 0:38:12But what becomes really precious to people when they go to festivals,
0:38:12 > 0:38:15or when they go camping, is their own space,
0:38:15 > 0:38:18and a configuration that actually created
0:38:18 > 0:38:21your own space in the middle we haven't talked about yet,
0:38:21 > 0:38:24but that, actually, I can see would be very valuable.
0:38:27 > 0:38:29So, I am going to make you an offer.
0:38:29 > 0:38:30- Thank you.- But there is the caveat,
0:38:30 > 0:38:35I would have to be fully satisfied on the circumstances
0:38:35 > 0:38:38- of your previous situation. - Absolutely, yes, sure.
0:38:38 > 0:38:42So I'm going to offer you all the money.
0:38:42 > 0:38:45I want 45% of the business.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51It's a dramatic about turn,
0:38:51 > 0:38:54but Dustin's revelations have resulted in an offer
0:38:54 > 0:38:56of three times the amount he wanted to give away,
0:38:56 > 0:38:58and just two Dragons remain.
0:39:01 > 0:39:03- Dustin?- Yes.
0:39:03 > 0:39:06I think you're going to come up against serious competition
0:39:06 > 0:39:08when you start to push this into the market.
0:39:08 > 0:39:12If you'd come in here and said you had a specific patent
0:39:12 > 0:39:16- I could look at that gave us... - I do have, actually.
0:39:16 > 0:39:18- And it's granted? - It will be later...
0:39:18 > 0:39:21- That's not good enough.- OK.
0:39:21 > 0:39:25Unfortunately, reluctantly, that's the only reason why I'm out.
0:39:25 > 0:39:27- Thank you.- But good luck, I'd certainly buy one.
0:39:27 > 0:39:29OK!
0:39:29 > 0:39:35I've been sitting here thinking, it looks great.
0:39:35 > 0:39:38It's practicality? Not as good as its looks.
0:39:39 > 0:39:44But, there is something about this. What does that roll down to?
0:39:44 > 0:39:48It all goes into one of the pop-up bags.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50So that tepee, plus the tunnel, what does it go to?
0:39:50 > 0:39:54It's a metre by a metre by 150 thickness.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56- That's very small. - It's quite small.
0:39:56 > 0:39:59It's on a shoulder strap, as well.
0:40:00 > 0:40:02OK, um...
0:40:02 > 0:40:04You've got one offer from Deborah.
0:40:07 > 0:40:10- I'm going to make you an offer, as well.- Thank you.
0:40:11 > 0:40:14I, too, will offer you the full £100,000...
0:40:19 > 0:40:22I will come down to 45%, as well.
0:40:33 > 0:40:37If I mention now that there's another tent that I'm bringing out
0:40:37 > 0:40:40in the next few years called Gigloo,
0:40:40 > 0:40:43which is a dome shape, which is less pricey,
0:40:43 > 0:40:47and there will be a Kidloo and a Bigloo, as well,
0:40:47 > 0:40:49would you consider halving your equity,
0:40:49 > 0:40:53because I've doubled the product range?
0:40:56 > 0:41:00I, personally, would be investing in you and the tent business.
0:41:00 > 0:41:02- It's all or nothing. - OK, I understand.
0:41:04 > 0:41:07- My offer would stand exactly as it is.- OK.
0:41:10 > 0:41:12Um...
0:41:12 > 0:41:16I know that both of you would add huge influence and value to this,
0:41:16 > 0:41:21but I had a place I'd go to, and that would be at 25%.
0:41:23 > 0:41:26I'm going to have to decline, I'm afraid.
0:41:27 > 0:41:28OK.
0:41:28 > 0:41:30But thank you very much, all of you.
0:41:30 > 0:41:32- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:41:32 > 0:41:35Dustin showed these Dragons are willing to take risks
0:41:35 > 0:41:39with their own money, but only if the price is right.
0:41:39 > 0:41:41He leaves with nothing.
0:41:41 > 0:41:45That was one of the most interesting responses to an offer I think I've ever heard.
0:41:45 > 0:41:49There's too much risk. That's a big money punt, £100,000.
0:41:51 > 0:41:53The reason I turned down the investment was
0:41:53 > 0:41:59at those kind of figures I just felt I'm going to be better on my own.
0:41:59 > 0:42:01We'll see if that's true or not.
0:42:08 > 0:42:11Others who tried and failed in the Den included friends
0:42:11 > 0:42:14Padrig Hughes and Dewi Roberts, from Anglesey,
0:42:14 > 0:42:17who offered up a tasty proposition for the multimillionaires.
0:42:17 > 0:42:22Toffoc is a premium quality, toffee-flavoured vodka.
0:42:22 > 0:42:24We got the idea eight years ago.
0:42:24 > 0:42:27We went skiing, I can't claim that the toffee vodka
0:42:27 > 0:42:30enhanced our skiing, but it certainly helped us for the apres ski.
0:42:30 > 0:42:34We're very fortunate that we have got Gary Rhodes,
0:42:34 > 0:42:36who is a business partner with us.
0:42:36 > 0:42:39It's rare for these Dragons to pass up the chance for a tipple.
0:42:39 > 0:42:41Oh, that smells lovely.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44Wow! It is very nice.
0:42:44 > 0:42:48That must have been a hell of a jolly boys' outing you lot went on.
0:42:48 > 0:42:52But woe betide take any entrepreneur who thinks that might help soften them up.
0:42:52 > 0:42:54Tell me where you are at the minute, then.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57There was a loss of 3,000, there was a loss of 2,000,
0:42:57 > 0:43:02but we've made a profit of 9,000 on the first year.
0:43:02 > 0:43:04- So, you made money in year one.- Yes.
0:43:04 > 0:43:08- You lost in year two... - Yes, and we lost slightly at the end of year three.
0:43:08 > 0:43:10There's something wrong then, isn't here?
0:43:10 > 0:43:14No joy in the numbers, then, and even the involvement
0:43:14 > 0:43:17of a celebrity chef couldn't provide a reason to toast an investment.
0:43:17 > 0:43:20Gary Rhodes, how much did he invest in the business?
0:43:20 > 0:43:22He's given us his branding.
0:43:22 > 0:43:25So why isn't it called Rhodes Toffee then?
0:43:25 > 0:43:28- Because it's our toffee.- You've got him to endorse your product,
0:43:28 > 0:43:31but you won't allow him to endorse it because it's yours?
0:43:31 > 0:43:35- I don't want an argument! - Get your celebrity endorser to do more work for you.
0:43:35 > 0:43:37There's no way I can invest £75,000 of my money,
0:43:37 > 0:43:40and that's why I'm going to say, guys, I'm out.
0:43:40 > 0:43:42Thank you for your time.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45Dumfries-based father and daughter Dawson Sellar and Susan Corrie
0:43:45 > 0:43:48try to recreate a tranquil summer's evening in the Den
0:43:48 > 0:43:50with their innovative garden seat design.
0:43:50 > 0:43:52Oh, my God.
0:43:52 > 0:43:56We've designed this swing to be stylish and relaxing.
0:43:56 > 0:43:59It's intended for self-assembly.
0:43:59 > 0:44:02It requires no maintenance other than cleaning,
0:44:02 > 0:44:07and the non-spill table feature is particularly intriguing.
0:44:09 > 0:44:12We'd like to invite you all to come and have a little swing.
0:44:14 > 0:44:17The Dragons clearly enjoyed a brief moment of R&R.
0:44:17 > 0:44:20Some people have said it's a bit like sailing in your garden.
0:44:20 > 0:44:24And there was something that caught the attention of Peter Jones.
0:44:24 > 0:44:26Dawson, can I say congratulations
0:44:26 > 0:44:29on the most outrageous trouser seen in the Den.
0:44:31 > 0:44:33Being a designer's a bit like being the Queen, you know.
0:44:33 > 0:44:36If you don't wear something bright, no-one will notice you.
0:44:36 > 0:44:39But as a business concept, it failed to capture their imagination.
0:44:39 > 0:44:43If you're just going to do it for enjoyment, then do it.
0:44:43 > 0:44:47If you're doing it to make money, then find a good distributor,
0:44:47 > 0:44:53manufacturer, license it to them, sit back, collect a royalty,
0:44:53 > 0:44:56and do something that's going to be more fruitful.
0:44:57 > 0:44:59- I'm out.- Thank you.
0:45:02 > 0:45:06There never seems to be any shortage of ideas coming into the Den
0:45:06 > 0:45:08aimed at gardeners.
0:45:08 > 0:45:10We obviously have a lot of green-fingered inventors
0:45:10 > 0:45:12in this country.
0:45:12 > 0:45:15Next into the Den are Henry and Philip Blake who hope
0:45:15 > 0:45:18the Dragons will want to invest in their family business.
0:45:45 > 0:45:46Hello, Dragons.
0:45:46 > 0:45:49My name is Henry Blake, this is my father Philip Blake,
0:45:49 > 0:45:53and we're here today looking for a £75,000 investment for 10%
0:45:53 > 0:45:55in our company called WoodBlocX and what we've got is
0:45:55 > 0:45:59a set of wooden blocks of five different standard sizes,
0:45:59 > 0:46:04that are joined together with these plastic dowels and wedges.
0:46:04 > 0:46:06The whole block system is patented
0:46:06 > 0:46:09and we also have a patent on this unique dowel and wedge system.
0:46:09 > 0:46:11There's multiple different uses for WoodBlocX -
0:46:11 > 0:46:14you can build raised beds, steps, benches,
0:46:14 > 0:46:17or seats. You can also build retaining walls up to a metre high
0:46:17 > 0:46:20and we can also guarantee these for 15 years.
0:46:21 > 0:46:26We launched ten years ago and we distribute it through retailers,
0:46:26 > 0:46:31but the retailers doubled the price of it by the time it got to the customer,
0:46:31 > 0:46:35and this just made it rather expensive.
0:46:35 > 0:46:38We put it on the web, but ten years ago the web wasn't very good
0:46:38 > 0:46:39and it didn't go very well,
0:46:39 > 0:46:42but two years ago, Henry came into the business
0:46:42 > 0:46:47and he developed a new website and since then it's been fantastic.
0:46:47 > 0:46:51We've got from 80,000 a year to 480,000 a year this year, estimate.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54We want to make WoodBlocX into a household brand,
0:46:54 > 0:46:55we think it's that good.
0:46:55 > 0:46:57- Thank you.- Thank you very much.
0:47:01 > 0:47:05An assured pitch from father and son, Philip and Henry Blake
0:47:05 > 0:47:09from the Highlands, who hope to transform the nation's gardens.
0:47:09 > 0:47:12They need a £75,000 cash injection
0:47:12 > 0:47:16for their build-it-yourself landscaping product.
0:47:16 > 0:47:22In return, a 10% stake is on offer. Theo Paphitis looks impressed.
0:47:24 > 0:47:28Henry, Philip, hello, I'm Theo.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30Listen, this looks great, but I was trying to work out, I mean,
0:47:30 > 0:47:32what does a sleeper cost?
0:47:32 > 0:47:35Has anyone bought a sleeper recently? You guys will know.
0:47:35 > 0:47:38I think you can pay in the range of £13 to £30 per sleeper.
0:47:38 > 0:47:46So if I do build a raised bed using sleepers, two, three thick - how may would you do?
0:47:46 > 0:47:49For vegetables - three thick.
0:47:49 > 0:47:53So as a comparison, how much does your product cost?
0:47:53 > 0:47:55These would be about £450 each, delivered.
0:47:55 > 0:47:58We're not that far different actually,
0:47:58 > 0:48:01because with the sleepers - how are you going to get them?
0:48:01 > 0:48:03Are you going to take them home in your car? Don't think so.
0:48:03 > 0:48:06- You have them delivered! - It's expensive delivering sleepers.
0:48:06 > 0:48:08You need a crane to take them off.
0:48:08 > 0:48:15- OK, where does the wood come from to make these?- We...- On you go.
0:48:15 > 0:48:17OK, some of it is local.
0:48:17 > 0:48:21We have a sawmill north of Inverness in the north of Scotland,
0:48:21 > 0:48:22but we also buy it from Latvia.
0:48:22 > 0:48:28- The pine from Latvia is probably better quality.- Right, so, sawmill?
0:48:28 > 0:48:32- Yes.- How long has it been in the family and does it make money?
0:48:32 > 0:48:36- My wife's great-grandmother was a sawmiller, actually.- Your wife's...
0:48:36 > 0:48:39- Great-grandfather.- Great-grandmother. - Great-grandmother.- Yeah.
0:48:39 > 0:48:43- Your wife's great-grandmother?- Yes.
0:48:43 > 0:48:46- So it's been in the family for generations.- And you make money?
0:48:46 > 0:48:49- Yes, we do.- Can you give me that bottom-line figure for last year?
0:48:49 > 0:48:54- OK, 600,000.- Profit?- Mm-mm. - Last year?- Mm-hm.
0:48:56 > 0:48:59Good design and impressive business credentials,
0:48:59 > 0:49:02the duo have started well,
0:49:02 > 0:49:06but Deborah Meaden wants to take a different tack.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11Um, this is a family business. Have you got brothers or sisters?
0:49:11 > 0:49:14I've got two younger brothers.
0:49:14 > 0:49:17Are they working within the business?
0:49:17 > 0:49:19- My youngest brother is helping me in the office.- OK.
0:49:19 > 0:49:22How much involvement do you have, Philip, on a day-to-day basis?
0:49:22 > 0:49:24Um, not nearly so much nowadays.
0:49:24 > 0:49:25I keep track of the numbers,
0:49:25 > 0:49:30but all the marketing and the day-to-day work is done by the boys.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33The other thing that might be worth saying is that I built the website
0:49:33 > 0:49:35and I put together the marketing plan
0:49:35 > 0:49:38to get this to where it is at the moment,
0:49:38 > 0:49:40but I don't have a background in marketing.
0:49:40 > 0:49:45I have taken a good guess at what I think is going to work
0:49:45 > 0:49:49and I would love to have someone on board to help me
0:49:49 > 0:49:52take this to the next level and bring it to the mass media,
0:49:52 > 0:49:54rather than to garden specific.
0:49:55 > 0:49:56Can I ask you something?
0:49:56 > 0:49:59What happens when the two of you don't agree?
0:49:59 > 0:50:03I can't believe that's ever happened!
0:50:03 > 0:50:05That's not a good answer in itself.
0:50:05 > 0:50:07That's probably one of the issues
0:50:07 > 0:50:09that can sit within a family business,
0:50:09 > 0:50:12which is particularly when the younger generation come through
0:50:12 > 0:50:14and if you never disagree, that probably isn't healthy.
0:50:14 > 0:50:16I always try to give Henry his head,
0:50:16 > 0:50:19even if I don't agree with what he's doing,
0:50:19 > 0:50:22so the default position is that he takes a decision.
0:50:22 > 0:50:26And then hopefully he learns he's made a dreadful mistake.
0:50:26 > 0:50:29It's worked. DEBORAH LAUGHS
0:50:29 > 0:50:33That basically, in a nutshell, is a lesson on family businesses.
0:50:36 > 0:50:39There's a jovial atmosphere,
0:50:39 > 0:50:41but that rarely lasts long in the Den.
0:50:41 > 0:50:45Now Peter Jones wants to drill down into the business itself.
0:50:46 > 0:50:51Henry, Philip, it looks really good and you've got, clearly,
0:50:51 > 0:50:54a very successful sawmill business, making a lot of money,
0:50:54 > 0:50:58but this isn't to do with the sawmill business, is it?
0:50:58 > 0:50:59No, in the WoodBlocX business,
0:50:59 > 0:51:01it's not a separate business at this stage,
0:51:01 > 0:51:03but we would make it a separate business.
0:51:05 > 0:51:07You said that you forecasted to sell 480,000.
0:51:07 > 0:51:10What did you do the whole of last year?
0:51:10 > 0:51:13The whole of last year, 335.
0:51:13 > 0:51:18- Your gross profit? - Our gross profit is 38%.
0:51:18 > 0:51:19£110,000?
0:51:19 > 0:51:21Yes, that would be right.
0:51:21 > 0:51:26And what did you net last year?
0:51:26 > 0:51:29The net profit last year was minimal, about £10,000.
0:51:29 > 0:51:32Because we spent a lot on marketing.
0:51:32 > 0:51:34Where are you so far this year?
0:51:34 > 0:51:38We have about £221,000 for the first four months.
0:51:38 > 0:51:43A 50% increase in product sales already this year.
0:51:45 > 0:51:49So, what are you projected to make in terms of net profit?
0:51:52 > 0:51:55- 31.- 31,000?
0:51:57 > 0:52:00So, we're not talking very wealthy here, are we?
0:52:00 > 0:52:03This is not a short-term thing.
0:52:03 > 0:52:06At the moment, we're in the growth phase.
0:52:06 > 0:52:13What would be the message to your investor as an exit strategy?
0:52:13 > 0:52:17Right, we could, obviously only having 10%,
0:52:17 > 0:52:19you would not be in control of the dividends.
0:52:19 > 0:52:23We could offer you a guaranteed dividend.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26Yeah, but a guaranteed dividend of 10% of 31K a year
0:52:26 > 0:52:31on nearly £500,000 turnover won't change my life, will it?
0:52:34 > 0:52:38How negotiable are you on the percentage?
0:52:39 > 0:52:42Slightly.
0:52:42 > 0:52:43What is slightly?
0:52:43 > 0:52:46Well, we could do 15.
0:52:46 > 0:52:48I know, but at that rate, I'll be in the ground.
0:52:48 > 0:52:52You'll be building my coffin for me before I get my investment back!
0:52:56 > 0:53:00I think on this occasion, I've got to say, I'm out.
0:53:00 > 0:53:02- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:53:03 > 0:53:06It's the first setback for the likeable duo
0:53:06 > 0:53:11as Hilary Devey casts doubt on their money making potential.
0:53:11 > 0:53:15It doesn't look like Duncan Bannatyne is going to offer them any respite.
0:53:19 > 0:53:21This could never replace sleepers.
0:53:21 > 0:53:25Even if you did a television advert for something this,
0:53:25 > 0:53:27in a year's time, everybody would forget about it
0:53:27 > 0:53:31and start using sleepers or brick again.
0:53:31 > 0:53:34I think you have a long haul to actually make this into a brand.
0:53:37 > 0:53:38This is not an investment.
0:53:40 > 0:53:45- A nice product, but no return capital so I'm out.- Thank you.
0:53:47 > 0:53:50I think the big issue for me, and it's why I asked
0:53:50 > 0:53:55about the relationship between you, which is great and lovely to see.
0:53:55 > 0:54:00Sometimes when you add somebody sitting outside of that relationship,
0:54:00 > 0:54:04the day there is disagreement,
0:54:04 > 0:54:07then minority investors just get ganged up on.
0:54:07 > 0:54:12I think had you been closer to me, my geographic heartland,
0:54:12 > 0:54:15that probably wouldn't concern me so much.
0:54:15 > 0:54:21But for me, that combination pushes it that one step too far.
0:54:21 > 0:54:25- So I'm afraid I'm out.- Thank you anyway.- Yes, thank you very much.
0:54:25 > 0:54:28Henry, Philip, I actually like the product,
0:54:28 > 0:54:32I think it's brilliant and I've thought of some other uses for it.
0:54:32 > 0:54:34The problem I have got is,
0:54:34 > 0:54:38it's going to be a long time before I receive anything.
0:54:38 > 0:54:42At the end of the day, this is a family business.
0:54:42 > 0:54:44You should both be proud for your relationship,
0:54:44 > 0:54:49but as an investment for me, it's just not viable.
0:54:49 > 0:54:52So with regret, I'm saying, I'm out.
0:54:55 > 0:54:57Three more Dragons walk away from the deal
0:54:57 > 0:55:01and the father and son's investment dreams
0:55:01 > 0:55:04now rest solely with Peter Jones.
0:55:04 > 0:55:07Has he seen something that his rivals have not?
0:55:10 > 0:55:14So, Henry, Philip, the cash you're making at your sawmill,
0:55:14 > 0:55:18why, after ten years of your life, getting it to where it is today,
0:55:18 > 0:55:21why would you choose to not invest it in this?
0:55:22 > 0:55:24Well, we have invested in this,
0:55:24 > 0:55:27a total of £660,000 in the last 12 years.
0:55:27 > 0:55:30That includes all the marketing spend.
0:55:30 > 0:55:35When you take this out of your existing sawmill business,
0:55:35 > 0:55:40what assets will the new company have in it?
0:55:40 > 0:55:43We have machinery, a building where we store it.
0:55:43 > 0:55:47- That could become part of it. - What would that be worth?
0:55:47 > 0:55:51Probably £100,000.
0:55:51 > 0:55:54And it will then also, within that company, have all of the rights
0:55:54 > 0:55:56and all of the IP to the patent?
0:55:56 > 0:55:57Yes.
0:55:57 > 0:55:59And on top of that,
0:55:59 > 0:56:02you said also you would make sure that you would guarantee
0:56:02 > 0:56:03the dividend amount?
0:56:03 > 0:56:08Yes. It's slightly better because I forgot the stock.
0:56:08 > 0:56:10We have maybe £200,000 worth of stock.
0:56:14 > 0:56:19Thank you for leaving that to the last minute, Philip.
0:56:19 > 0:56:21Jealous now, aren't you?
0:56:23 > 0:56:26So, Henry, Philip, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:56:26 > 0:56:29I will offer you the full amount of money.
0:56:33 > 0:56:35But I want 25%.
0:56:44 > 0:56:49However, the minute I get my £75,000 back, I would drop to 15%.
0:56:52 > 0:56:55You get the benefits you're looking for from working with me,
0:56:55 > 0:56:59but at the same, I can end up with 15% of your company.
0:57:03 > 0:57:07- I would be keen to say yes.- Yes.
0:57:10 > 0:57:14It's another disastrous mistake from my son!
0:57:17 > 0:57:21- No, it's not. I would say yes, too. - We would be delighted.
0:57:21 > 0:57:23Well done, you've got a deal. You've got an investment!
0:57:23 > 0:57:26Thank you very much.
0:57:26 > 0:57:28Philip and Henry have done it.
0:57:28 > 0:57:32It was an investment pitch that went right down to the wire,
0:57:32 > 0:57:35but they leave with an excited Peter Jones on board.
0:57:38 > 0:57:39It's a good product.
0:57:39 > 0:57:42I just felt uncomfortable being a family business.
0:57:42 > 0:57:44I'm sure you'll find lots of reasons
0:57:44 > 0:57:48to feel uncomfortable now you've lost a great opportunity!
0:57:58 > 0:58:01You've probably noticed that everybody keeps saying
0:58:01 > 0:58:04we need economic growth in this country,
0:58:04 > 0:58:08but many talk of it as though it's the kind of thing you can buy from a vending machine.
0:58:08 > 0:58:14In fact, growth comes from real businesses making successful investments and doing new things.
0:58:14 > 0:58:17So, with another two deals here today,
0:58:17 > 0:58:21it's fair to say the Den is doing its bit.
0:58:22 > 0:58:26If you want to find out more about how the Dragons assess a business,
0:58:26 > 0:58:28press the red button
0:58:28 > 0:58:31where you'll find exclusive behind-the-scenes interviews
0:58:31 > 0:58:34with our multi-millionaires. Goodbye.
0:58:34 > 0:58:36Next week in the Den:
0:58:37 > 0:58:39I didn't wake up this morning
0:58:39 > 0:58:42expecting to be talking about gentleman's intimate wipes.
0:58:42 > 0:58:44It's not a good deal.
0:58:44 > 0:58:47It is not a brand-new concept.
0:58:47 > 0:58:50Do your homework!
0:58:50 > 0:58:51I've got to make you an offer.
0:58:51 > 0:58:55I don't know what day you were born on, but I wasn't born yesterday.
0:58:55 > 0:58:59Sometimes you just lose investment because you screw it up.
0:58:59 > 0:59:01And you just did.
0:59:16 > 0:59:19Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd