0:00:27 > 0:00:29These are the Dragons.
0:00:29 > 0:00:33Wealthy, well-connected,
0:00:33 > 0:00:36innovative and influential.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Each week, they make or break the dreams
0:00:39 > 0:00:42of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:44 > 0:00:47- You ready, Kelly? - Yes, I'm ready, Peter.- Let's go.
0:00:48 > 0:00:53I'm a natural investor for you, but...you've stopped me.
0:00:54 > 0:00:56I don't want to have to redesign...
0:00:56 > 0:01:00I've asked the question, Duncan, so I'd like Benjamin to answer it.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02I'm not entirely convinced about this.
0:01:02 > 0:01:04Although...I sort of like it, in a way.
0:01:04 > 0:01:06Thank you.
0:01:06 > 0:01:09Why have you felt it necessary to come in here
0:01:09 > 0:01:12and try and pull the wool over our eyes?
0:01:17 > 0:01:20Leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden...
0:01:21 > 0:01:23..telecoms giant Peter Jones...
0:01:25 > 0:01:29..and hotel and healthclub owner Duncan Bannatyne
0:01:29 > 0:01:33have between them struck deals worth more than £7 million in the Den.
0:01:35 > 0:01:39But ready to fight for the next shrewd investment is the creator
0:01:39 > 0:01:43of her own world-renowned interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen,
0:01:43 > 0:01:47and cloud computing pioneer Piers Linney.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53The multimillionaires will give each entrepreneur just three minutes
0:01:53 > 0:01:56to pitch their idea and then interrogate them
0:01:56 > 0:01:58on every aspect of their business.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01To face them takes nerve and vision,
0:02:01 > 0:02:04so who will leave with the Dragons' money?
0:02:11 > 0:02:13Welcome to Dragons' Den,
0:02:13 > 0:02:17where a fresh batch of cash-hungry entrepreneurs are ready to
0:02:17 > 0:02:20face five self-made millionaires, hoping to convince them
0:02:20 > 0:02:24to invest in their business ideas and inventions.
0:02:24 > 0:02:28Now, most of us have had a bad night's sleep from time to time, and
0:02:28 > 0:02:32first to face the Dragons today are a couple who believe they can help.
0:02:32 > 0:02:36Their answer involves sheep, but at no point do you have to count them.
0:02:57 > 0:02:58Hello.
0:02:58 > 0:03:04My name's Roger and this is my wife, Lesley, and we've come here today to
0:03:04 > 0:03:10ask for an investment of £130,000 in our company and offering 15% equity.
0:03:12 > 0:03:15Four years ago, we decided to reinvent the blanket.
0:03:15 > 0:03:18Wool is the ideal material for bedding,
0:03:18 > 0:03:23it's the most breathable natural fibre known to man, it has
0:03:23 > 0:03:28the ability to regulate temperature of two people sharing the same bed.
0:03:28 > 0:03:32It's hypoallergenic, it's resistant to dust mites
0:03:32 > 0:03:35and it's resistant to mould spores.
0:03:35 > 0:03:39Wool is far superior to polyester, feather or down,
0:03:39 > 0:03:45and we're on a crusade to try and convert the British public back
0:03:45 > 0:03:50to sleeping under wool, but not under a blanket, under a Baavet.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56A cosy pitch from Roger and Lesley,
0:03:56 > 0:04:02who are seeking £130,000 in return for a 15% stake in their business.
0:04:03 > 0:04:07But queen of home furnishings Kelly Hoppen foresees a problem
0:04:07 > 0:04:11with their plans for a wool-inspired revolution.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17The problem that you're going to have with this is converting people.
0:04:17 > 0:04:18We know.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20Cos everybody's already got the bedding,
0:04:20 > 0:04:22and so it's an extra cost to convert.
0:04:22 > 0:04:27If the British public can be converted from wool to a feather
0:04:27 > 0:04:31and down within ten years when there wasn't an internet,
0:04:31 > 0:04:35when there wasn't the word of mouth that we've got today,
0:04:35 > 0:04:38I believe we can convert them back much quicker.
0:04:38 > 0:04:42And that's what's happening in our experience,
0:04:42 > 0:04:45so there's a big move to not only wool but natural products.
0:04:47 > 0:04:50- Is that one of your products, there on the bed?- Yes.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52- These are the duvets. - Can I have a look at it?
0:04:52 > 0:04:54Course you can, yes, please.
0:04:55 > 0:04:57Not sure we've got a big enough bed for you, though!
0:05:00 > 0:05:02You just wanted to lie down, Peter.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05Just want to see how hot it is and sweaty.
0:05:05 > 0:05:06Ah!
0:05:08 > 0:05:11I'm a great advocate for wool, and it is a lovely product
0:05:11 > 0:05:14and I don't know why we ever forgot it.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16You've got me there - so far, that's great.
0:05:16 > 0:05:19- But, in the Den, I'm looking for a business investment.- Yeah.
0:05:19 > 0:05:21So you've been trading for four years.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24Talk me through your revenue over those years.
0:05:24 > 0:05:29In the first year, we turned over about £1,000.
0:05:29 > 0:05:33In the second year, that went to £18,000.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36In the third year, that went to £120,000, and this year,
0:05:36 > 0:05:41with a month to go of the year, we're on target for £250,000.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44Last year, net profit...
0:05:44 > 0:05:4627%.
0:05:47 > 0:05:51..£27,000. This year, £54,000.
0:05:51 > 0:05:5427%. It's a net profit of 27%.
0:05:54 > 0:05:56You can't have £27,000 as a net profit
0:05:56 > 0:05:59against £120,000 and be 27%.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02- Roger's usually wrong on the figures.- Yeah.
0:06:02 > 0:06:04Do you mind if I can just ask a question
0:06:04 > 0:06:05so I can get out of this bed?
0:06:05 > 0:06:07Go on. Ask your question and get out of the bed.
0:06:07 > 0:06:10- It's quite heavy.- Is it?
0:06:10 > 0:06:11That surprises me.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15People tend to tell us that they're lighter
0:06:15 > 0:06:17than they expected them to be.
0:06:17 > 0:06:20I know a lot about bedding.
0:06:20 > 0:06:24There are duvets now that you can get which are very light,
0:06:24 > 0:06:28so literally you can't feel them on your body, but they've got
0:06:28 > 0:06:32different types of filling which just adapts to the body heat.
0:06:32 > 0:06:35- Which is what this does. - Naturally.- Naturally.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37What do you need the money for?
0:06:37 > 0:06:43We need about £117,000 to upgrade the existing carding line,
0:06:43 > 0:06:46replace the quilting machine and make it all synchronised.
0:06:46 > 0:06:49If we have the new machinery, it would just...
0:06:49 > 0:06:53It should actually cut down on our waste and our costs.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55That's not a compelling business case.
0:06:55 > 0:06:57How much is it going to drive cost down?
0:06:57 > 0:06:59We're not too sure.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02Surely when you decide to spend £117,000
0:07:02 > 0:07:03you say, "This is the benefit,"
0:07:03 > 0:07:07or is it just because it's my £117,000 that you haven't...
0:07:07 > 0:07:10- Probably.- Yeah, that's not a good answer in the Den.
0:07:10 > 0:07:12- I'll leave the figures to Lesley. - So go on.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15What's the benefit of spending £117,000?
0:07:15 > 0:07:19Well, the machine we have requires two people constantly
0:07:19 > 0:07:22- to be there operating it. - OK, so you can cost that.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25You can say, "So I only need one person." So that's what I'm after.
0:07:25 > 0:07:30What's the financial decision behind spending £117,000?
0:07:30 > 0:07:32- You haven't done that, have you? - Percentage-wise?
0:07:32 > 0:07:36- No, we haven't done that. - We haven't done that figure.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41A woolly grasp of the figures from Roger and Lesley.
0:07:41 > 0:07:46And now Peter Jones is keen to test the logic behind the £850,000
0:07:46 > 0:07:48valuation of their business.
0:07:49 > 0:07:52If you had an opportunity now to get three quarters of a million pounds
0:07:52 > 0:07:56in your bank account but I asked you to walk away from the business,
0:07:56 > 0:07:58would you take it?
0:07:59 > 0:08:03- I don't know.- Probably. - That's a toughie.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06We'd have to go and discuss it for a few minutes.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08Do you need a marriage guidance counsellor?
0:08:08 > 0:08:10- We certainly would, yeah.- Probably.
0:08:11 > 0:08:13If you're potentially willing to sell your business
0:08:13 > 0:08:18for £100,000 less than what you're asking me today to invest in,
0:08:18 > 0:08:21that kind of tells me a story as a potential investor
0:08:21 > 0:08:23that you have overvalued your business coming in.
0:08:23 > 0:08:25- Quite possibly.- OK.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30It just makes your valuation a bit baa-rking, doesn't it?
0:08:30 > 0:08:31SHE CHUCKLES
0:08:32 > 0:08:35Your valuation at the moment, I think at this stage, is crazy,
0:08:35 > 0:08:38and I think you'll probably go out of here
0:08:38 > 0:08:40and think about that valuation point.
0:08:40 > 0:08:42But I can change the valuation
0:08:42 > 0:08:44because I can make you a different offer.
0:08:46 > 0:08:50But you've stopped me from doing that by not evaluating
0:08:50 > 0:08:52how you're going to apply those funds
0:08:52 > 0:08:54and the effect it's going to have on the business.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56I'm a natural investor for you,
0:08:56 > 0:08:59but you've stopped me.
0:08:59 > 0:09:00OK.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04And I'm sorry for that. But I won't be investing. I'm out.
0:09:04 > 0:09:05Thank you.
0:09:07 > 0:09:11A blow for Roger and Lesley as an initially enthusiastic
0:09:11 > 0:09:13Deborah Meaden walks away from the deal.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18Will Duncan Bannatyne be more warmly disposed towards
0:09:18 > 0:09:20the bedding entrepreneurs?
0:09:21 > 0:09:24I like it, I like the business.
0:09:24 > 0:09:25Um...
0:09:27 > 0:09:29I'm going to make you an offer.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35What I'm going to offer you is half the money, £65,000.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40But for that £65,000, I'd be looking for 25% of the business.
0:09:55 > 0:09:57That stopped us in our tracks.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00It's a question of whether we're going to follow like sheep
0:10:00 > 0:10:03or whether we're going to go our own way.
0:10:05 > 0:10:12I love you as a couple, I love the fact you've built this business.
0:10:12 > 0:10:14The fact is, I wouldn't buy one.
0:10:15 > 0:10:19I know, I know, and I'm very organic, but I like nothing, like,
0:10:19 > 0:10:21something that's so light on me,
0:10:21 > 0:10:24and it feels slightly claustrophobic, the wool.
0:10:24 > 0:10:26I'm not going to invest. I'm afraid I'm out.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30- But I honestly do wish you luck with it.- OK, thank you.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33Like the product, think you've done a great job.
0:10:33 > 0:10:36I just can't get excited by it, I'm afraid.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38I think there is a market for this.
0:10:38 > 0:10:42- You will sell some, but it's not for me, so I'm out.- Thank you.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50So far, no-one has matched Duncan Bannatyne's offer.
0:10:50 > 0:10:53And with the chances of securing an investment now
0:10:53 > 0:10:57hanging by the slimmest of threads, everything rests on Peter Jones.
0:11:00 > 0:11:02What do you think of Duncan's offer?
0:11:06 > 0:11:09Don't know. We need to confer.
0:11:09 > 0:11:10- Don't we?- Yeah.
0:11:11 > 0:11:14Obviously, it's not the amount we require.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18I'm not interested in punting this on my own.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23I think it's a large amount of money
0:11:23 > 0:11:26and I think Duncan's done the right thing by offering half
0:11:26 > 0:11:28because he's de-risked it for himself.
0:11:28 > 0:11:30So what would be the offer?
0:11:30 > 0:11:32Or don't you want to make one?
0:11:38 > 0:11:39I will offer you...
0:11:41 > 0:11:43..£65,000...
0:11:44 > 0:11:47..and I too will match Duncan's 25%.
0:11:47 > 0:11:51- Thank you very much for the offer. - So we'd all be equal partners.
0:11:51 > 0:11:53- Can we confer?- Confer.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01We're not going to give them 50%.
0:12:01 > 0:12:03No, we're not, are we?
0:12:03 > 0:12:06Because we believe in what we're doing.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10Even if it's a bit slower, we'll take that chance.
0:12:10 > 0:12:15I don't know, actually. THEY LAUGH.
0:12:15 > 0:12:16OK.
0:12:21 > 0:12:27It's a very difficult decision and we're not even sure
0:12:27 > 0:12:29if we're making the right decision.
0:12:29 > 0:12:35It's been a very, very long, hard road to get where we are,
0:12:35 > 0:12:40and to actually give up 50% of the business
0:12:40 > 0:12:43is a little bit too high for us.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46So, unfortunately, we are going to say...
0:12:46 > 0:12:49Thank you but no thank you.
0:12:51 > 0:12:56If that's your decision, I'm sad to see it go. Good luck to you.
0:12:56 > 0:12:57- OK, thank you.- OK, thank you.
0:13:00 > 0:13:03So Roger and Lesley had two offers
0:13:03 > 0:13:06but they decided that handing over half their business
0:13:06 > 0:13:09to the Dragons was ultimately
0:13:09 > 0:13:12too high a price to pay for investment.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22- It was a hard call. - Yeah, it was. Very tough.
0:13:22 > 0:13:25And when you're in there you're so tempted to say yes, aren't you?
0:13:25 > 0:13:29- Yeah.- I think we're insane. - THEY LAUGH
0:13:29 > 0:13:30We probably are.
0:13:34 > 0:13:37The Den sees no shortage of entrepreneurs
0:13:37 > 0:13:39who are also husband and wife.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43But confronting five of Britain's sharpest business brains
0:13:43 > 0:13:47can put even the most solid of relationships to the test.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50- Do you get on at the moment, husband-and-wife?- Yes!
0:13:50 > 0:13:53What happens if I invest and you don't get on?
0:13:53 > 0:13:58- So did cordial bring you together?- In some ways, yes.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01- Not often you can say that.- Exactly.
0:14:01 > 0:14:02I think you're adorable.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05- It's not put on, this is really you. - Yeah, it really is.
0:14:05 > 0:14:09I can guarantee that, yes.
0:14:10 > 0:14:12Married couple Peter and Claire Lomas
0:14:12 > 0:14:15were seeking £50,000 for a 15% stake
0:14:15 > 0:14:18in their compact trailer business.
0:14:19 > 0:14:21We'd like to introduce you to Towbag.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23The world's first truly foldaway trailer.
0:14:23 > 0:14:28It folds away in under five minutes from this to this
0:14:28 > 0:14:30without the need for any tools.
0:14:31 > 0:14:33Peter Jones was first to question the viability
0:14:33 > 0:14:35of the space-saving product.
0:14:36 > 0:14:40That looks about as practical as an ashtray on a motorbike.
0:14:40 > 0:14:43We've spread it out a bit here for display purposes.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46- The trailer is a very popular accessory.- I'm not saying it's not.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49I've got two trailers at home. I don't personally use them.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51But I've got two trailers at home.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53Yeah, but you've got 300 acres to put it on.
0:14:53 > 0:14:54Some people live in a terraced house
0:14:54 > 0:14:57but they've got no access to the backyard through the sides.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59They can carry it through the house,
0:14:59 > 0:15:01put in the garden shed in the backyard.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03A sceptical Deborah Meaden was unconvinced
0:15:03 > 0:15:06about the size of the market.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10If I only very rarely need a trailer,
0:15:10 > 0:15:12I'm going to borrow somebody's trailer.
0:15:12 > 0:15:15I'm not going to sit with that in my backyard
0:15:15 > 0:15:19or in my flat for the sake of the once or twice.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22If I use a trailer regularly, that's not going to do the job
0:15:22 > 0:15:24because it doesn't look very robust.
0:15:24 > 0:15:25It is, it's very robust.
0:15:25 > 0:15:29I would worry about putting too much on the back of that.
0:15:29 > 0:15:32For camping, for garden waste, for general household waste,
0:15:32 > 0:15:34for moving large, bulky items.
0:15:34 > 0:15:38You'd be hard-pushed to put more than 200 kilograms in a trailer.
0:15:39 > 0:15:41Despite scrutiny from the Dragons,
0:15:41 > 0:15:45Peter's defence of his product had impressed Kelly Hoppen.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47The best bit about your pitch
0:15:47 > 0:15:49was actually watching you get so animated.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52I mean, I've never seen anyone so excited.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54Clearly, you're passionate about this.
0:15:54 > 0:15:57But Duncan Bannatyne had been closely observing
0:15:57 > 0:16:00the couple's dynamics and was keen to discover
0:16:00 > 0:16:04if Claire was as committed to Towbag as her partner.
0:16:05 > 0:16:09Peter, you come across very, very good
0:16:09 > 0:16:12in convincing everybody that you believe in this.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14Your wife doesn't.
0:16:16 > 0:16:18All of her body movement since she came in
0:16:18 > 0:16:20tells me she doesn't believe in this product.
0:16:20 > 0:16:23She believes you've made a big mistake.
0:16:25 > 0:16:27And she's told you you've made a big mistake
0:16:27 > 0:16:30and she's told you it's not going to make any money, hasn't she?
0:16:30 > 0:16:33- She hasn't, no. - Like Pete, I totally believe in it.
0:16:33 > 0:16:38Speaking to the target audience, the trailer will definitely sell.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42Where their business is concerned, Peter and Claire
0:16:42 > 0:16:44appeared to be of one mind.
0:16:44 > 0:16:48But when it came to a product with genuine mass-market appeal,
0:16:48 > 0:16:52the Dragons felt that Towbag was trailing a long way behind.
0:16:52 > 0:16:56Some things don't need inventing if there's not a market.
0:16:56 > 0:16:58This is not something for me. I'm out.
0:16:58 > 0:17:00Thank you very much.
0:17:08 > 0:17:11Next into the Den is a Ghanaian entrepreneur
0:17:11 > 0:17:14who believes his hot chocolate drink
0:17:14 > 0:17:18is perfectly placed to exploit our collective sweet tooth.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21But will the prospect of setting up a factory in Africa
0:17:21 > 0:17:23stir the Dragons?
0:17:43 > 0:17:46Hello, my name is Benjamin Mougarbel.
0:17:46 > 0:17:52I'm here to pitch for £65,000 for 10% equity of my company,
0:17:52 > 0:17:54Benjamin's Hot Chocolate.
0:17:55 > 0:17:59Benjamin's Hot Chocolate is an in-cup product.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03The content is sealed at the bottom of the cup.
0:18:03 > 0:18:07So what you do is when you remove the foil seal,
0:18:07 > 0:18:09you have the content beneath.
0:18:09 > 0:18:14It's very convenient, very easy and very hygienic.
0:18:17 > 0:18:21I have currently been able to secure £433,000
0:18:21 > 0:18:23from one investment company,
0:18:23 > 0:18:30and I have over five million-plus cup orders in 11 countries.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34Would you like to taste Benjamin's Hot Chocolate?
0:18:35 > 0:18:37Oh, yeah.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44An appetising pitch from Benjamin, who is looking
0:18:44 > 0:18:50for £65,000 in return for a 10% stake in his Ghana-based business.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53But will a cup of Benjamin's Hot Chocolate have sweetened
0:18:53 > 0:18:56the Dragons towards the prospects of a deal?
0:18:59 > 0:19:02- So, what you want me to do is invest in a company...- Yes, sir.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05- ..that's going to build a factory in Ghana?- Yes, please.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08- And start making chocolate in Ghana? - Yes, please.
0:19:08 > 0:19:10And export to the rest of the world.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13What's going on in Ghana at the moment in terms of business?
0:19:13 > 0:19:18Ghana is the fastest-growing economy in West Africa now.
0:19:18 > 0:19:20It's very stable now.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24The Ghanaian government are giving Western investors
0:19:24 > 0:19:26the opportunity to invest in Ghana.
0:19:26 > 0:19:32So therefore there would be 100% exemption on direct
0:19:32 > 0:19:34and indirect duties and levies
0:19:34 > 0:19:39and also 100% exemption of income tax on profits.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42Why did you turn towards the hot chocolate market?
0:19:42 > 0:19:46I've been in the marketing and advertising industry
0:19:46 > 0:19:48for about ten years now.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52Hot chocolate is a beverage that cuts across all range of people.
0:19:52 > 0:19:57Adults will drink hot chocolate, kids will drink hot chocolate.
0:19:58 > 0:20:02People drink hot chocolate in Ghana already.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05Benjamin plans to undercut the competition on price
0:20:05 > 0:20:08both in Ghana and here in the UK.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12But Kelly Hoppen is concerned that however popular this beverage
0:20:12 > 0:20:15is in West Africa, it will always have limited appeal
0:20:15 > 0:20:18in the health-conscious British market.
0:20:20 > 0:20:22Cocoa and chocolate, fabulous.
0:20:22 > 0:20:27The fact it's in a cup and you can pour water in it, great.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30And I love the name. The problem is the content for me.
0:20:32 > 0:20:35- There is 362 calories in that cup. - Yes.
0:20:35 > 0:20:41That's a lot of calories, so it's not a terribly healthy product.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43We will improve on the content
0:20:43 > 0:20:49because what is happening here is people want to go more organic,
0:20:49 > 0:20:53they're watching their health, their watching their diet,
0:20:53 > 0:20:58so we intend to make the product a much more healthier product.
0:20:59 > 0:21:02Three things in your pitch.
0:21:02 > 0:21:08One thing, £433,000 secured.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10Yes, sir.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13And it's in your bank?
0:21:13 > 0:21:18Not yet. We are on the due diligence process.
0:21:18 > 0:21:22And what is happening here is I have the letters of intent.
0:21:22 > 0:21:24Let me have a look.
0:21:25 > 0:21:26Thanks.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32So if that doesn't happen for whatever reason,
0:21:32 > 0:21:35due diligence isn't what they thought it was going to be,
0:21:35 > 0:21:37what happens?
0:21:38 > 0:21:40It's going to happen.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43I've worked in venture capital, private equity for years.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47Until the ink is dry on that agreement, it may not happen.
0:21:47 > 0:21:48It's totally irrelevant
0:21:48 > 0:21:52because the investment would be subject to the £433,000...
0:21:52 > 0:21:55- I'm just interested...- Anyway, so that's it.- Yeah, but is it..?
0:21:55 > 0:21:57I don't know why you have to redesign
0:21:57 > 0:21:58somebody's complete business plan.
0:21:58 > 0:22:01I've asked a question, Duncan. I'd like Benjamin to answer it.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03So what would happen? Could you progress the business?
0:22:05 > 0:22:07It's going to happen.
0:22:08 > 0:22:12So far the Ghanaian entrepreneur is keeping his cool.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16But Peter Jones wants to drill down further
0:22:16 > 0:22:18into some of his initial claims.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23Let's pause for a minute and smell the hot chocolate, shall we?
0:22:25 > 0:22:29You've made, when you came in here, some pretty amazing claims.
0:22:35 > 0:22:38Why have you felt it necessary to come in here
0:22:38 > 0:22:41and try and pull the wool over our eyes?
0:22:44 > 0:22:49This is nonsense. You don't have £433,000 secured.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51You've got a letter that says
0:22:51 > 0:22:54they're going to look to try and invest in your business.
0:22:54 > 0:22:56They haven't even started a due diligence process.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58So that's worthless.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04Hello, Peter. Sorry for the misleading.
0:23:04 > 0:23:09Is it right that you have not secured £433,000?
0:23:09 > 0:23:14- I have secured £433,000.- Oh, no. Don't do that.
0:23:14 > 0:23:17- Benjamin.- It's the truth... - Owe it to yourself to be honest.
0:23:17 > 0:23:18Don't do this.
0:23:18 > 0:23:21Believe me, I am very, very honest,
0:23:21 > 0:23:24and I've secured £433,000.
0:23:24 > 0:23:26- You have not.- Yes, I have.
0:23:28 > 0:23:35That letter has not given any credence to you securing £433,000.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40And then you talk about these orders that you've got,
0:23:40 > 0:23:43and you have no more than just people writing to you
0:23:43 > 0:23:46to confirm that you can sell your product at various events,
0:23:46 > 0:23:48they'd be willing to take your product on.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51You haven't got an order of five million, have you?
0:23:51 > 0:23:52- I have.- Where's the order?
0:23:54 > 0:23:58It's not an order but letter of intent.
0:24:00 > 0:24:03- Is that the letter you're talking about?- Yes.
0:24:03 > 0:24:07- No order for five million. - It's...
0:24:07 > 0:24:11- No intent for five million. - Can I see the letter, please?
0:24:13 > 0:24:15Sorry.
0:24:20 > 0:24:24It states here that the company "intend to be a sole wholesaler
0:24:24 > 0:24:29"and distributer for Benjamin's range of products and offers its huge
0:24:29 > 0:24:31"experience in retail dynamics
0:24:31 > 0:24:34"of the Ghanaian market to Benjamin's Hot Chocolate
0:24:34 > 0:24:38"so as to become a household breakfast of choice."
0:24:40 > 0:24:44Where's the five million order from that company?
0:24:44 > 0:24:46They have 11,000 outlets.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49Where's the five million order from that company?
0:24:49 > 0:24:51It doesn't state five million.
0:24:51 > 0:24:55I do not have an order but I have letters of intent.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57I don't have an order of five million.
0:24:57 > 0:24:59You don't have an order for five million.
0:24:59 > 0:25:00Thank you.
0:25:06 > 0:25:07I'm out.
0:25:10 > 0:25:13Benjamin has lost his first Dragon.
0:25:13 > 0:25:17A disgruntled Peter Jones has bowed out.
0:25:17 > 0:25:20Will Kelly Hoppen prove any more forgiving?
0:25:23 > 0:25:26I don't think for one minute you're a liar.
0:25:26 > 0:25:31I think the way you came in and delivered it was incorrect,
0:25:31 > 0:25:34but I don't think you did it with malice at all.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37I don't like the product.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39It's not something that I would invest my money in,
0:25:39 > 0:25:44but I honestly do wish you all the luck, but I'm afraid I'm out.
0:25:44 > 0:25:46Thank you very much.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55You are mistaken in your beliefs in how this is going to take off,
0:25:55 > 0:25:58and so therefore I'm not going to invest and so I'm out.
0:26:01 > 0:26:04Three Dragons have now walked away from the deal.
0:26:04 > 0:26:09Will Deborah Meaden or Piers Linney be prepared to back Benjamin?
0:26:12 > 0:26:15If I decided to give you this money, I would have to do
0:26:15 > 0:26:18a lot of due diligence and given the way you've presented this
0:26:18 > 0:26:20it would be a lot of due diligence.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25There is a huge amount of work to get anywhere near comfortable
0:26:25 > 0:26:29making an invest in this business.
0:26:29 > 0:26:33One thing I want to add is I am an honest man.
0:26:33 > 0:26:36I'm not saying you're not for one moment.
0:26:36 > 0:26:41I've been doing this by myself for the past two years.
0:26:41 > 0:26:45And it hasn't come easy, which I didn't expect it to.
0:26:45 > 0:26:51But once you see this is a good product,
0:26:51 > 0:26:58I know that with your contacts you could put us where we ought to be.
0:26:58 > 0:27:00Even if you are the most honest man on Earth,
0:27:00 > 0:27:03and you do have a great idea, I would find it very difficult
0:27:03 > 0:27:07to get comfortable with investing in this, so I'm out.
0:27:09 > 0:27:14It's difficult enough to due diligence an investment,
0:27:14 > 0:27:18but to due diligence a country, its structure,
0:27:18 > 0:27:22what's happening there, it's a big ask.
0:27:22 > 0:27:26To look at all of the evidence we've got ahead of us,
0:27:26 > 0:27:30and actually then take a leap of faith, which could be quite
0:27:30 > 0:27:34exciting and thrilling and interesting
0:27:34 > 0:27:36to actually set up a manufacturing process
0:27:36 > 0:27:38over in Ghana,
0:27:38 > 0:27:43but you would have had to deliver the sharpest pitch
0:27:43 > 0:27:45with the strongest evidence,
0:27:45 > 0:27:47and the evidence is weak.
0:27:49 > 0:27:52And I'm afraid, put all of that into the pot,
0:27:52 > 0:27:55it doesn't help me invest, so I won't be. I'm out.
0:27:55 > 0:27:56Thank you very much.
0:27:58 > 0:27:59Thank you.
0:28:02 > 0:28:07So a bruising encounter for Benjamin who leaves the Den empty-handed.
0:28:07 > 0:28:11A sugar-coated pitch ultimately resulting in his prospects
0:28:11 > 0:28:13of investment turning sour.
0:28:18 > 0:28:21I'm feeling disappointed.
0:28:21 > 0:28:25I think the documents I've brought into the Den today is credible.
0:28:25 > 0:28:27If you're going to the Den and you do a timesheet,
0:28:27 > 0:28:29you need some orders, you need some letters.
0:28:29 > 0:28:32You can't set up a manufacturing plant in Ghana
0:28:32 > 0:28:33without half a million pounds.
0:28:33 > 0:28:35But I just know Africa's like...
0:28:35 > 0:28:37I bet you he'll get it off the ground.
0:28:37 > 0:28:39- I hope he does.- I hope he does.
0:28:39 > 0:28:43Benjamin's Hot Chocolates is already a success
0:28:43 > 0:28:45whether the Dragons invest or not.
0:28:48 > 0:28:50Other entrepreneurs that have tried in the Den
0:28:50 > 0:28:53include Rory O'Loughlin.
0:28:53 > 0:28:55He came in hoping to create a stir
0:28:55 > 0:29:01with what he believes is a must-have multifunctional kitchen accessory.
0:29:01 > 0:29:04Imagine you're cooking up a lovely Thai green curry at home
0:29:04 > 0:29:07and you've just stirred the sauce.
0:29:07 > 0:29:09What do you do with the spoon?
0:29:09 > 0:29:11You pinch Frogjaws' legs, it opens its mouth,
0:29:11 > 0:29:15place in position on your cooking utensil.
0:29:15 > 0:29:17Now it's really, really hard to remove
0:29:17 > 0:29:19so it will travel with you while you're cooking.
0:29:19 > 0:29:24You can pinch Frogjaw onto your loaf, it will keep your bread fresh.
0:29:24 > 0:29:28Put Frogjaw down, flat, and it stops the bottle rolling.
0:29:29 > 0:29:33Deborah Meaden wasn't bowled over by his spoon stand invention.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36Oh, still tips forward.
0:29:36 > 0:29:40Oh, still tips forward.
0:29:40 > 0:29:43Ah, now tips back, and at that point I don't know about anybody else
0:29:43 > 0:29:45but I think that is going to get stuck on it.
0:29:45 > 0:29:48You'll get a frog in your soup.
0:29:48 > 0:29:51Dragons, you are...
0:29:51 > 0:29:53"Brilliant" is the word you're looking for now, Rory.
0:29:56 > 0:29:59With the heat turned up, it was time for Piers Linney
0:29:59 > 0:30:01to bring the knives out.
0:30:01 > 0:30:04Have you invented something that doesn't need inventing?
0:30:04 > 0:30:07- And then over-engineered it?- Um...
0:30:07 > 0:30:09Piers, no, I don't think so.
0:30:10 > 0:30:13- Is it OK if I get a glass of water? - Yeah, yeah, of course.
0:30:13 > 0:30:14You've got a frog in your throat.
0:30:14 > 0:30:17HE LAUGHS NERVOUSLY. It's just getting a wee bit croaky.
0:30:17 > 0:30:21While keen cook Duncan Bannatyne saw merit in the product...
0:30:21 > 0:30:24I absolutely loved this. I think it's absolutely fantastic.
0:30:24 > 0:30:25..he struggled with the branding.
0:30:25 > 0:30:29But I have to say, I think it's got a stupid name - Frogjaw.
0:30:31 > 0:30:34I don't think it's really anything to do with frogs.
0:30:34 > 0:30:35I'm waiting for the business lesson.
0:30:38 > 0:30:42And interiors expert Kelly Hoppen was intrigued by how Rory planned
0:30:42 > 0:30:46to leapfrog the big players in the kitchen utensil market.
0:30:47 > 0:30:50What else do you know that's out there
0:30:50 > 0:30:52that's comparable that has sold millions?
0:30:52 > 0:30:58The major competition would be the Joseph Joseph range.
0:30:58 > 0:31:00- Or Alessi or Philippe Starck.- Yes.
0:31:00 > 0:31:03You know, Philippe Starck did come up with some pretty iconic,
0:31:03 > 0:31:06incredible designs for the kitchen that no-one else had...
0:31:06 > 0:31:07- He brought a kettle out.- Right.
0:31:07 > 0:31:10- And they were all quite quirky. - Yeah.
0:31:10 > 0:31:12I just think that the product, for me,
0:31:12 > 0:31:15isn't brilliant enough that it's going to sell huge volume.
0:31:15 > 0:31:21This is something that should form quite a small part of a range.
0:31:22 > 0:31:27It is not the foundation of a range, and that is the difference
0:31:27 > 0:31:31between where you are now and those other big brands we've talked about.
0:31:32 > 0:31:34A neat idea or a messy irritation?
0:31:34 > 0:31:39It was left to Peter Jones to serve up a final helping of Dragon wisdom.
0:31:40 > 0:31:44You have pitched a gimmick product that will become a fad
0:31:44 > 0:31:48and ultimately, the more of these that you have around your house,
0:31:48 > 0:31:51the more annoying they will become.
0:31:51 > 0:31:52So, I'm going to say I'm out.
0:31:55 > 0:31:59So far, no-one has left the Den with an investment.
0:31:59 > 0:32:01Unfortunately, we're going to say...
0:32:01 > 0:32:03- Thank you.- Thank you. - But no.- But no, thank you.
0:32:06 > 0:32:10Will any of these entrepreneurs succeed in striking a deal?
0:32:10 > 0:32:13Part of the bit about weighing something up
0:32:13 > 0:32:17is how good are the people in front of you, and you're very investable.
0:32:17 > 0:32:18- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31Given that smartphones and tablet computers
0:32:31 > 0:32:33are so prominent in modern life,
0:32:33 > 0:32:36we've had surprisingly few innovations
0:32:36 > 0:32:39based around these products in the Den.
0:32:39 > 0:32:42Our next entrepreneur is flying the flag for technology
0:32:42 > 0:32:46with what she thinks could be the 21st-century replacement
0:32:46 > 0:32:47for the traditional shopping catalogue.
0:33:08 > 0:33:10Hello. My name is Karoline Gross
0:33:10 > 0:33:14and I am here today with my business, Smartzer.
0:33:14 > 0:33:18I am here to raise £100,000 for 10% of the business.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21Smartzer is a mobile and web application
0:33:21 > 0:33:24that enables interactivity on video content.
0:33:24 > 0:33:25To illustrate this,
0:33:25 > 0:33:28I made a demo video of our current iPad application.
0:33:28 > 0:33:30So, as we are watching these videos,
0:33:30 > 0:33:32we can touch the screen to reveal these icons
0:33:32 > 0:33:35that will instantly tell us more information about the products.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39Clicking "order now" will take you directly to the website
0:33:39 > 0:33:43that sells this particular product, where we have more information,
0:33:43 > 0:33:45we can purchase it or go back to the show.
0:33:46 > 0:33:50And we can also share via Facebook, Twitter or e-mail and,
0:33:50 > 0:33:53for example, send this link to a friend and carry on watching.
0:33:54 > 0:33:58So, I hope that has clarified how our product works.
0:33:58 > 0:34:00The problem that our product is solving
0:34:00 > 0:34:04is inefficient monetisation of product placement
0:34:04 > 0:34:06for content owners and retailers.
0:34:07 > 0:34:11Revenue will be generated through a hybrid of commission per sale
0:34:11 > 0:34:13and licensing the technology.
0:34:14 > 0:34:17Thank you very much. I welcome any questions that you might have.
0:34:19 > 0:34:24A quick-fire pitch from Karoline, who is looking for £100,000
0:34:24 > 0:34:27in return for a 10% share of her technology business.
0:34:28 > 0:34:32But cloud computing pioneer Piers Linney wants to establish
0:34:32 > 0:34:36more about how the software she has devised actually works.
0:34:38 > 0:34:40- Karoline, hi, I'm Piers.- Hi.
0:34:40 > 0:34:44So, simplistically, I am a dress manufacturer or whatever,
0:34:44 > 0:34:47I've got my five dresses, I've got a nice video of a fashion show,
0:34:47 > 0:34:48blue, red, green.
0:34:48 > 0:34:53I can run it through your system, tag the green one with a URL,
0:34:53 > 0:34:55- put it on my website with my phone app.- Yeah.
0:34:55 > 0:34:57When somebody sees the green dress,
0:34:57 > 0:34:58they see there's a logo and they click it
0:34:58 > 0:35:02and it goes to a URL or shopping basket and they can buy it.
0:35:02 > 0:35:04- Yes, correct.- They don't have to go to your website.
0:35:04 > 0:35:08No. You only go to ours for the tagging process.
0:35:08 > 0:35:12We've built this very, very simple way of tagging videos
0:35:12 > 0:35:15through an editor where you literally enter the product details.
0:35:15 > 0:35:18You say the tag is here, it moves from here to here
0:35:18 > 0:35:20and it is in place instantly.
0:35:20 > 0:35:22So, how unique is it?
0:35:23 > 0:35:26- Unique in...- It's not a new concept, is it? At all.
0:35:26 > 0:35:31No, I think this has been tried to do in the '90s the first time around.
0:35:31 > 0:35:35But I think now people are more and more using devices
0:35:35 > 0:35:37that will actually suit this type of technology -
0:35:37 > 0:35:41for example iPads and mobiles and laptops - to consume content.
0:35:41 > 0:35:43So, I think this is the perfect timing
0:35:43 > 0:35:45to implement something like this.
0:35:45 > 0:35:48So, what forum do you mainly see this being used in?
0:35:48 > 0:35:51One of the first companies that has approached us
0:35:51 > 0:35:54that we are talking to now is a TV show that has an app
0:35:54 > 0:35:57and they would like to have this as an extra feature on their app
0:35:57 > 0:36:01so people can purchase the items featured in that content.
0:36:01 > 0:36:03So, they'll use it as a second screen experience
0:36:03 > 0:36:06and through that, they can engage people a lot more
0:36:06 > 0:36:08and also get sales through their products.
0:36:09 > 0:36:12So, I have a company, I create a video.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15- You would then create this?- Yes.
0:36:15 > 0:36:17So then, what is that going to cost me?
0:36:17 > 0:36:21So, if you would like us to build you an application
0:36:21 > 0:36:23or add this feature to your app,
0:36:23 > 0:36:27it will cost you yearly £42,000 for the licence
0:36:27 > 0:36:30and then, obviously, you will be generating revenues
0:36:30 > 0:36:33through sales of the products.
0:36:33 > 0:36:35And will you then take a percentage of those sales?
0:36:35 > 0:36:38So, we would split the sales 50-50.
0:36:39 > 0:36:42I'm just trying to work out why me with my warehouse full of goods
0:36:42 > 0:36:46and fighting to my main margins, am I really going to give you...
0:36:46 > 0:36:48a big part of my margin. I just can't see it.
0:36:48 > 0:36:52I think this can hugely increase the amount of sales you're going to get,
0:36:52 > 0:36:55so overall benefit for you is still going to be
0:36:55 > 0:36:59very, very large in comparison to what the costs will be.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03I am actually building an online business at the moment.
0:37:03 > 0:37:08It's a Kelly Hoppen website. I'm using a similar application to this.
0:37:08 > 0:37:11You're £42,000, is that a yearly fee?
0:37:11 > 0:37:16Yes, that will be the installation and then a yearly maintenance.
0:37:16 > 0:37:18Yeah. You see, I'm using a company, I give them a one-off fee,
0:37:18 > 0:37:21they're creating the whole thing, the whole package for me.
0:37:21 > 0:37:26This, to me, is you're making more money every year for something
0:37:26 > 0:37:28that I can be doing once I've actually got
0:37:28 > 0:37:29the whole system set up.
0:37:29 > 0:37:32The fact that this big client has approached us
0:37:32 > 0:37:37and offered to pay us a weekly fixed sum of money
0:37:37 > 0:37:39does signal to us that clients
0:37:39 > 0:37:43that would see huge benefit in this product are willing to do so.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46You can't charge £42,000 for this type of technology.
0:37:46 > 0:37:49I think you would be better off saying,
0:37:49 > 0:37:53"Oh, we'll just sell this application to you for £500,"
0:37:53 > 0:37:54or a couple of thousand pounds.
0:37:54 > 0:37:59A very big retailer in the UK has put aside £200,000 a year
0:37:59 > 0:38:01for their app development.
0:38:01 > 0:38:06So, charging £42,000 for something that will actually generate sales
0:38:06 > 0:38:09and is a very engaging way of doing so,
0:38:09 > 0:38:12I think is very good value for money.
0:38:15 > 0:38:17A solid defence of her revenue model
0:38:17 > 0:38:20from the young technology entrepreneur.
0:38:20 > 0:38:23But will it be enough to convince self-confessed technophobe
0:38:23 > 0:38:25Duncan Bannatyne?
0:38:27 > 0:38:30I think it's crazy to think that you're going to get companies
0:38:30 > 0:38:35paying you £42,000 per year for a licence fee.
0:38:35 > 0:38:37The only thing I can say is... I'm out.
0:38:41 > 0:38:46I think what you demonstrated is great. I could see people using it.
0:38:46 > 0:38:48I think the fact that you've gone very tablet-based
0:38:48 > 0:38:51is new and is good.
0:38:51 > 0:38:54When I do, and we create websites on a worldwide basis
0:38:54 > 0:38:56for some major brands,
0:38:56 > 0:39:00from the top end, you've got a complete end-to-end portal
0:39:00 > 0:39:04and inside that portal, you've then got unique ways to display video
0:39:04 > 0:39:07and encourage the user to have a user experience and buy.
0:39:07 > 0:39:08Yeah.
0:39:08 > 0:39:13You need a suite of applications and a further offering
0:39:13 > 0:39:16and maybe there are some things that you could go to
0:39:16 > 0:39:18to the next stage with something like this.
0:39:18 > 0:39:20But, Karoline, I wish you the best of luck.
0:39:20 > 0:39:22I'm not going to invest and I'm out.
0:39:23 > 0:39:26I disagree. I think you should focus on this application
0:39:26 > 0:39:29and make it the best it can be.
0:39:29 > 0:39:31You should be an online model
0:39:31 > 0:39:33that just makes the stuff work seamlessly.
0:39:33 > 0:39:37So, I think the model you've pitched probably isn't the business model
0:39:37 > 0:39:40I think you should be going forwards with.
0:39:40 > 0:39:41Um...
0:39:41 > 0:39:43So, I think you're fantastic.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46You've come here, you're very credible, you have achieved a lot
0:39:46 > 0:39:48- but it is not for me, so I'm out. - Thank you.
0:39:50 > 0:39:54Three Dragons have now declined the opportunity to invest.
0:39:57 > 0:40:02It is now down to Kelly Hoppen or to Deborah Meaden to make an offer.
0:40:02 > 0:40:06Will they be prepared to put up to £100,000 she needs
0:40:06 > 0:40:08to develop our business?
0:40:08 > 0:40:12To try and charge somebody £42,000 a year
0:40:12 > 0:40:17for something which actually probably will cost somebody less...
0:40:17 > 0:40:18Once they've seen yours,
0:40:18 > 0:40:21it will cost them a lot less to develop their own.
0:40:21 > 0:40:25The licensing fee is too close to the development fee.
0:40:25 > 0:40:26With things like this,
0:40:26 > 0:40:29what you see on the screen is the tip of the iceberg.
0:40:29 > 0:40:34As a comparison, I have had a quote from a large US development company.
0:40:34 > 0:40:39Just to build a simple prototype of this would cost 150,000 -
0:40:39 > 0:40:40a prototype.
0:40:40 > 0:40:44400,000 for them to develop this as an app.
0:40:44 > 0:40:48I could go to another company that would give me a different number.
0:40:48 > 0:40:51As good as you are, as good as this is,
0:40:51 > 0:40:53it is just down to that revenue model.
0:40:53 > 0:40:55You know, if I paid that much money upfront,
0:40:55 > 0:40:57I wouldn't want to have to pay anything else.
0:40:57 > 0:40:59So, I'm afraid I won't be investing.
0:40:59 > 0:41:01- I'm out.- Thank you.
0:41:01 > 0:41:03I think that you have to be careful
0:41:03 > 0:41:06because there's a lot of competition out there.
0:41:06 > 0:41:10You should be selling more of what you do for less.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13So, for that reason, I'm out. But thank you very much for coming in.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16Thank you. And I appreciate all your advice and the opportunity.
0:41:21 > 0:41:25So, Karoline leaves the Den with plenty of suggestions
0:41:25 > 0:41:27but sadly, no investment.
0:41:27 > 0:41:31Despite enthusiasm for both the entrepreneur and her product,
0:41:31 > 0:41:35a highly-ambitious revenue model ultimately turned the Dragons off.
0:41:36 > 0:41:38- There are so many people doing it. - Strange, wasn't it,
0:41:38 > 0:41:41- because she's got everything right...- It's nothing new.
0:41:41 > 0:41:43But she got some much right and then to get the revenue model...
0:41:43 > 0:41:45If you just go on Net-a-porter, you can do that.
0:41:45 > 0:41:48Seriously investable individual, but pitched it wrong.
0:41:53 > 0:41:55There is nothing that frustrates the Dragons more
0:41:55 > 0:41:57than an investable entrepreneur
0:41:57 > 0:42:00with an uninvestable hole in their business model.
0:42:00 > 0:42:04Everybody likes the product, but I can't invest at these levels.
0:42:04 > 0:42:07I am so sorry about that
0:42:07 > 0:42:10because I would have loved to have got on board with this.
0:42:10 > 0:42:14It's a massive flaw. I'm really upset about that.
0:42:16 > 0:42:19As the Dragon who wears her heart on her sleeve,
0:42:19 > 0:42:24you can always rely on Kelly Hoppen to proffer a heartfelt opinion.
0:42:24 > 0:42:26It's getting sadder by the minute to me, honestly.
0:42:26 > 0:42:30If somebody proposed to me with a fake ring, I would hate that.
0:42:31 > 0:42:33The litmus test for whether
0:42:33 > 0:42:35a business can become a Kelly Hoppen investment
0:42:35 > 0:42:38is as straightforward as she is.
0:42:39 > 0:42:43You've got a lot of sugar in here, and I'm really anti-sugar.
0:42:44 > 0:42:46I don't know what the world's coming to.
0:42:46 > 0:42:48I mean, this is the most ridiculous idea.
0:42:48 > 0:42:52You've created something for lazy adults, nothing else.
0:42:53 > 0:42:57To have something like that in my garden is an eyesore.
0:42:57 > 0:42:59I mean, I look at it and I sort of lose the will to live.
0:43:00 > 0:43:02As she's often inclined to remind us,
0:43:02 > 0:43:06she's the name and face behind a globally-recognised brand,
0:43:06 > 0:43:08and understands the power of marketing.
0:43:08 > 0:43:12I have such a brilliant relationship with all the magazines
0:43:12 > 0:43:13and all the press.
0:43:13 > 0:43:15Don't get me wrong, it looks great.
0:43:15 > 0:43:18It's just you're trying to build a brand, and I know about brands.
0:43:18 > 0:43:21- Exactly. - And, you know, it doesn't all fit.
0:43:21 > 0:43:24I also have a huge celebrity client list that I can ring up
0:43:24 > 0:43:27and say, "Try this, use it. What do you think?"
0:43:27 > 0:43:29I'm going to give you some advice.
0:43:29 > 0:43:31Get a PR company, get yourself into Tatler
0:43:31 > 0:43:34and you'll create something for yourself.
0:43:34 > 0:43:36Thank you for your feedback.
0:43:36 > 0:43:39And when it comes to appraising an investment,
0:43:39 > 0:43:43Kelly Hoppen has her own very special analytical techniques.
0:43:43 > 0:43:47It's all about the person and you have to believe in that,
0:43:47 > 0:43:50so there has to be, for me as a woman anyway, a gut feeling.
0:43:50 > 0:43:54I love everything about the way you've come in here today.
0:43:54 > 0:43:57I think you should be the face of the brand.
0:43:57 > 0:44:00I think you're great. I think you've got huge potential.
0:44:00 > 0:44:04I love you and I do love the idea of the product.
0:44:04 > 0:44:07I think you're fantastic.
0:44:07 > 0:44:10I might be mad, but I'm going to make you an offer.
0:44:10 > 0:44:13£60,000 for 10%.
0:44:13 > 0:44:16I would want 40% of both the businesses.
0:44:16 > 0:44:18I think I'd like to accept.
0:44:18 > 0:44:19- Yay!- Accept the offer.
0:44:30 > 0:44:34One of the most famous rejections in Den history is probably Trunki,
0:44:34 > 0:44:36a ride-on suitcase for children.
0:44:36 > 0:44:39It didn't secure an investment, but it went on to big things
0:44:39 > 0:44:42and now you see them in airports the world over.
0:44:42 > 0:44:45Well, I wonder if the memory of that will affect how the Dragons react
0:44:45 > 0:44:48to our next couple, who are pitching a similar product.
0:45:10 > 0:45:11Hello, Dragons.
0:45:11 > 0:45:15My name is Filip Devogeleer and this is my wife and business partner,
0:45:15 > 0:45:17Jessica Wang.
0:45:17 > 0:45:23We are here today to ask for £70,000 in return for 15% of our business.
0:45:23 > 0:45:25Our business is called Roomii Toys.
0:45:25 > 0:45:29Our first toy is called the Roomii Monster,
0:45:29 > 0:45:33a multifunctional toy children can play with, ride on
0:45:33 > 0:45:36and put their toys inside and pull along.
0:45:36 > 0:45:38It has only directional wheels.
0:45:38 > 0:45:41That means that the toy can spin around very easily
0:45:41 > 0:45:44and in any direction, so it's a lot of fun for the children.
0:45:44 > 0:45:48It has a gently closing lid, it has rubber teeth,
0:45:48 > 0:45:51and it has a pulling hook at the front,
0:45:51 > 0:45:53allowing the children to pull the toy.
0:45:54 > 0:45:57Thank you for your attention. You have any questions?
0:45:59 > 0:46:00Is that it? Is that your pitch?
0:46:00 > 0:46:04- This is our pitch.- I like it. Short, sweet and to the point.
0:46:04 > 0:46:07- Thank you very much.- Thank you.- Just like me, apart from I'm not short.
0:46:09 > 0:46:12A Peter-Jones-friendly pitch from Manchester-based couple
0:46:12 > 0:46:15Filip Devogeleer and Jessica Wang.
0:46:17 > 0:46:22They'd like an investment of £70,000 in return for 15% of their business.
0:46:23 > 0:46:26So, what do you do? Do you sit on it and you get pulled along?
0:46:26 > 0:46:28Yes, well, there's several options.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31- It's a ride-on toy in the first place.- Can you not demonstrate that?
0:46:31 > 0:46:33FILIP LAUGHS
0:46:33 > 0:46:35- I'll sit on it.- And I'll pull you.
0:46:36 > 0:46:38FILIP CHUCKLES
0:46:41 > 0:46:44- Are you ready, Kelly? - Yes, I'm ready, Peter.- Let's go.
0:46:48 > 0:46:51- Stop. - KELLY AND JESSICA LAUGH
0:46:51 > 0:46:54- What was that like?- What was it like? Was that a serious question?
0:46:54 > 0:46:56Was it comfortable or not comfortable?
0:46:56 > 0:46:59No, not at all, but I'm eight stone and so...
0:47:01 > 0:47:03But I mean, it didn't feel unsafe, put it that way.
0:47:06 > 0:47:07Thank you.
0:47:08 > 0:47:13The Dragons have had some fun road-testing Roomii Monster.
0:47:13 > 0:47:15But Kelly Hoppen wants to bring the conversation
0:47:15 > 0:47:17back around to business,
0:47:17 > 0:47:20specifically Filip and Jessica's competition.
0:47:22 > 0:47:24I don't have children that are little any more,
0:47:24 > 0:47:26so it's not something I would go and buy,
0:47:26 > 0:47:27but I do in the side of my brain
0:47:27 > 0:47:30see them being pulled around at airports and things.
0:47:30 > 0:47:34I mean, how many other products are you up against, similar?
0:47:34 > 0:47:40I think our main competition will be coming from
0:47:40 > 0:47:44both toy storage and the ride-on toys.
0:47:44 > 0:47:46- But the...- And the...
0:47:46 > 0:47:50But the thing is, our toy is a multifunctional toy, so...
0:47:50 > 0:47:54Jessica, you know the answer to the question. Why don't you just say it?
0:47:54 > 0:47:55- Um...- Trunki.
0:47:57 > 0:48:00It isn't, though, because it's not a suitcase.
0:48:00 > 0:48:01It's not a suitcase.
0:48:01 > 0:48:04No, but they've just said it's a combination of the ride-on,
0:48:04 > 0:48:07which is Trunki, and storage, which would be...
0:48:07 > 0:48:09It's home storage more.
0:48:09 > 0:48:12It's not a product that you can take to the airport because it's too big.
0:48:12 > 0:48:14- It's much bigger than Trunki. - You wouldn't be allowed to.
0:48:14 > 0:48:18It's not designed to be stowed away in the airport.
0:48:18 > 0:48:21How much have you spent so far developing this product?
0:48:21 > 0:48:25So far, we've spent £170,000 on the product.
0:48:26 > 0:48:28Wow.
0:48:28 > 0:48:29Can you repeat that?
0:48:29 > 0:48:31£170,000.
0:48:31 > 0:48:34Well, do you mind me asking where you got that money from?
0:48:34 > 0:48:38- Personal investments. - Yeah, private savings.
0:48:38 > 0:48:40I have an apartment in China
0:48:40 > 0:48:44and I sold the apartment to fund the business.
0:48:44 > 0:48:47Have you got any orders at all?
0:48:47 > 0:48:52We are at very early stage of selling.
0:48:52 > 0:48:55We had a pitch with John Lewis about two weeks ago
0:48:55 > 0:48:59and we got very positive response
0:48:59 > 0:49:04and we were asked to go back for a second meeting in a few weeks',
0:49:04 > 0:49:08and so far, they have shown us that they are very interested in our toy.
0:49:09 > 0:49:11How much do they sell for?
0:49:11 > 0:49:13£69.99.
0:49:14 > 0:49:16How much do they cost to make?
0:49:16 > 0:49:20£25. Including shipping from China.
0:49:20 > 0:49:22So, what are you offering them in at the shops at?
0:49:22 > 0:49:24The wholesale price is £35.
0:49:24 > 0:49:26What are the shops' response to that?
0:49:26 > 0:49:29Because that margin looks quite tight for the retailer.
0:49:29 > 0:49:31It is a bit tight but they are positive about it.
0:49:31 > 0:49:33They like the uniqueness of the toy.
0:49:33 > 0:49:37They also do like the fact that the product has won
0:49:37 > 0:49:39several international design awards.
0:49:40 > 0:49:44What they'll like more than that is when the product sells,
0:49:44 > 0:49:46because awards are lovely,
0:49:46 > 0:49:49but has anybody said to you the margin is too tight?
0:49:49 > 0:49:53Well, because we actually haven't, apart from John Lewis,
0:49:53 > 0:49:55we haven't spoken to the other parties yet.
0:49:55 > 0:49:57We're trying to get a foot in the door.
0:49:57 > 0:49:59And I guess in the next couple of weeks,
0:49:59 > 0:50:01we'll find out more about this.
0:50:02 > 0:50:05The tight profit margin on the product
0:50:05 > 0:50:07may be worrying Deborah Meaden,
0:50:07 > 0:50:10but family man Piers Linney has a different concern.
0:50:12 > 0:50:15- I've got a five-year-old and a two-year-old.- Perfect.- Yes.
0:50:15 > 0:50:17Perfect. You might think.
0:50:17 > 0:50:19PIERS LAUGHS
0:50:19 > 0:50:20I'm just trying to work out,
0:50:20 > 0:50:23would I have one or two of these kicking around our house?
0:50:23 > 0:50:25I can't see it.
0:50:25 > 0:50:27We've tested it with our own son. He's three years old.
0:50:27 > 0:50:30We didn't tell him anything and he just did it spontaneously.
0:50:30 > 0:50:32For how long, though?
0:50:32 > 0:50:34He started playing with our first prototype
0:50:34 > 0:50:37and he just played with it and so far,
0:50:37 > 0:50:42we don't see any sign that he's bored with it.
0:50:42 > 0:50:44- Can you pass me one, please? - Yes, of course.
0:50:44 > 0:50:46All right, there you go.
0:50:52 > 0:50:55If you lifted it up, could you insert a potty?
0:50:58 > 0:51:02- That we haven't tried, to be honest. - We did put...
0:51:02 > 0:51:04There might be a possibility to do so.
0:51:04 > 0:51:06..some toys inside to show the capacity.
0:51:06 > 0:51:0817 litres, 16.5.
0:51:08 > 0:51:11Oh, that would have to be a big child to...
0:51:12 > 0:51:14PIERS CHUCKLES
0:51:14 > 0:51:18I wasn't... I was not thinking of that, by the way.
0:51:18 > 0:51:21LAUGHTER
0:51:21 > 0:51:24Well, you could. You could create a potty in the top of it.
0:51:24 > 0:51:26I'm sure you could create a potty that...
0:51:26 > 0:51:29- Wheel it along. That's going to work.- Get your own.
0:51:31 > 0:51:33A lighter moment in the Den,
0:51:33 > 0:51:37as Roomii Monster continues to capture imaginations.
0:51:37 > 0:51:41But is there something troubling Deborah Meaden?
0:51:41 > 0:51:43There is something a little bit spooky about it.
0:51:43 > 0:51:45It's almost like the face has been cut off.
0:51:45 > 0:51:51I'm not sure that a child wouldn't find a hippo or a tiger
0:51:51 > 0:51:54more exciting and engaging.
0:51:54 > 0:51:58One of the things we would like to make available
0:51:58 > 0:52:01is maybe sell together some stickers
0:52:01 > 0:52:05so that the children can personalise the toy
0:52:05 > 0:52:06and they can then make it their own.
0:52:06 > 0:52:08They can put eyes on there,
0:52:08 > 0:52:10they can make it, you know, the way they like, if they wish.
0:52:10 > 0:52:14Now that Deborah has talked about its face and I look at it,
0:52:14 > 0:52:18- when I first saw it, I could just see the teeth.- Yes.
0:52:18 > 0:52:21But I actually agree. It's actually a body without a head.
0:52:21 > 0:52:22OK.
0:52:22 > 0:52:25It's actually quite weird, looking at it, though,
0:52:25 > 0:52:27without this face on it.
0:52:29 > 0:52:32- Do you mind if I have..? - Please, go ahead.- Yes, of course.
0:52:32 > 0:52:33Please go ahead.
0:52:36 > 0:52:38I think we've got the solution.
0:52:41 > 0:52:44- Oh, my god, Peter! - I'm sorry, Peter, that's worse.
0:52:44 > 0:52:47- Don't you like it?- It's like it swallowed a small child now.
0:52:48 > 0:52:50JESSICA GIGGLES
0:52:52 > 0:52:55Roomii Monster's design may be award-winning,
0:52:55 > 0:52:58but it's not winning over most of the Dragons.
0:52:59 > 0:53:02Will Duncan Bannatyne share those reservations?
0:53:06 > 0:53:08I'm not entirely convinced about this.
0:53:12 > 0:53:14Although...
0:53:14 > 0:53:16I sort of like it in a way.
0:53:17 > 0:53:18Thank you.
0:53:20 > 0:53:23I don't think I'm going to take a punt on this at £70,000.
0:53:29 > 0:53:31But I would offer £35,000.
0:53:31 > 0:53:32OK.
0:53:33 > 0:53:37But for £35,000, I want 20%.
0:53:37 > 0:53:40- Oh.- Thank you.- OK, thank you.
0:53:42 > 0:53:46Filip and Jessica now have an offer for half of the £75,000
0:53:46 > 0:53:48they were looking for.
0:53:49 > 0:53:51Time for Kelly Hoppen to have her say.
0:53:53 > 0:53:57I don't think it's something that I actually want to invest in.
0:53:57 > 0:54:01It doesn't seem like it's a business that I could bring much to.
0:54:01 > 0:54:04For that reason, I'm afraid I won't invest, so I'm out.
0:54:07 > 0:54:10So, you've got no confirmed written orders?
0:54:10 > 0:54:12No. I'm sorry.
0:54:12 > 0:54:19We just started talking to retailers. We have ordered a first container.
0:54:19 > 0:54:22- It is now coming on its way. - On its way.
0:54:22 > 0:54:24Our plan is to start with soft loans.
0:54:24 > 0:54:27It's not very soft, a container load.
0:54:28 > 0:54:30So, I'll tell you where I am. Um...
0:54:30 > 0:54:32It's too much of a punt.
0:54:35 > 0:54:36I'm out.
0:54:39 > 0:54:44Everything now rests with Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden.
0:54:44 > 0:54:47Will either be prepared to complete or better
0:54:47 > 0:54:49Duncan Bannatyne's earlier offer?
0:54:49 > 0:54:52I don't disagree that it's good design.
0:54:52 > 0:54:54I just think it would be more engaging
0:54:54 > 0:54:56if it actually looked a little bit like an animal
0:54:56 > 0:54:59or like something that they could actually engage with.
0:54:59 > 0:55:02But I don't think you're going to get me there, so I'm afraid I'm out.
0:55:02 > 0:55:04OK. Thank you very much for your feedback.
0:55:11 > 0:55:13Part of the bit about weighing something up
0:55:13 > 0:55:17is how good of the people in front of you, and you are very investable.
0:55:17 > 0:55:19- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:55:19 > 0:55:23Could I see this in some of the stores? Could I see it selling?
0:55:23 > 0:55:25And I'm kind of at the stage where I could.
0:55:27 > 0:55:28Um...
0:55:31 > 0:55:32PETER SIGHS
0:55:43 > 0:55:45It's the margin...
0:55:46 > 0:55:47..that is the worry here
0:55:47 > 0:55:51and I don't think you've got sufficient margin to launch this.
0:55:52 > 0:55:54I'm going to say, sadly, I'm out.
0:55:56 > 0:55:59- OK. Oh, dear. - So, it's just me left in, eh?
0:55:59 > 0:56:00Yes.
0:56:00 > 0:56:03If another Dragon had came in and matched my offer,
0:56:03 > 0:56:05would you have taken £70,000 for 40%?
0:56:08 > 0:56:10- Yes, we would gladly accept.- Yeah.
0:56:11 > 0:56:13It's a real shame.
0:56:13 > 0:56:16I've got to say, I'm actually in for half of it,
0:56:16 > 0:56:19but for all of it, I've got to be out. Sorry.
0:56:22 > 0:56:24- Thank you very much. - Thank you for your time.- Thank you.
0:56:26 > 0:56:28So, heartbreak for Filip and Jessica,
0:56:28 > 0:56:33who came within a whisker of leaving the Den with £70,000
0:56:33 > 0:56:35and the backing of two Dragons.
0:56:35 > 0:56:37But instead, they walk away with nothing.
0:56:40 > 0:56:42- That was a good offer, Duncan. - I thought so, yeah.
0:56:42 > 0:56:44I thought you'd come in with me.
0:56:44 > 0:56:48No, I was really close. It was just that margin.
0:56:48 > 0:56:50You've got to sell 100,000 of those to make any money.
0:56:54 > 0:56:58At the moment itself when Duncan made an offer,
0:56:58 > 0:57:01I was quite happy, saying, "OK, there will be another Dragon now."
0:57:01 > 0:57:03- To match up, yeah. - Too much this offer.
0:57:03 > 0:57:05And unfortunately, it wasn't to be.
0:57:05 > 0:57:08So, clearly maybe a bit more disappointed
0:57:08 > 0:57:12than maybe if we'd had a no from all the Dragons, you know.
0:57:22 > 0:57:25Well, it is the end of one of those unusual days in the Den
0:57:25 > 0:57:28where the Dragons' cash remains unspent.
0:57:28 > 0:57:31We've only had a handful of those in the history of the Den.
0:57:31 > 0:57:33It wasn't for lack of trying, though.
0:57:33 > 0:57:35Spare a thought for Duncan Bannatyne,
0:57:35 > 0:57:39who was thwarted in his attempts to invest on two separate occasions.
0:57:39 > 0:57:42The conversation about all of tonight's pitches
0:57:42 > 0:57:45continues on Twitter using the hash tag #dragonsden.
0:57:48 > 0:57:49Next week in the den...
0:57:49 > 0:57:53- See you, guys. - KELLY LAUGHS
0:57:53 > 0:57:55I don't like it. I really don't.
0:57:55 > 0:57:58That on its own, fine. Hate this.
0:57:58 > 0:58:01- When do you run out of money? - In about four months' time.
0:58:01 > 0:58:04- So, you're really in big trouble, then.- Yes.
0:58:05 > 0:58:09Did you interrupt me to make the very same point I was making, Piers?
0:58:09 > 0:58:10I'm just checking.
0:58:10 > 0:58:13You said in three years, you will make £2.5 million.
0:58:13 > 0:58:15That is a delusional comment.
0:58:15 > 0:58:17Right, I'll take a punt with you.
0:58:17 > 0:58:20So, this is an offer but it has got a big caveat.