0:00:27 > 0:00:29- EVAN DAVIS:- These are the Dragons.
0:00:29 > 0:00:36Wealthy, well-connected, innovative and influential.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Each week, they make or break the dreams
0:00:39 > 0:00:42of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46So if you keep losing money the way you're losing money,
0:00:46 > 0:00:48when do you run out of money?
0:00:48 > 0:00:52- In about four months' time.- So you're really in big trouble, then.
0:00:52 > 0:00:54Yes.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57Did you interrupt me to make the very same point I was making, Piers?
0:00:57 > 0:00:58I'm just checking.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00I don't know what the world's coming to.
0:01:00 > 0:01:03I mean, this is the most ridiculous idea.
0:01:03 > 0:01:06But you said in three years you'll make £2.5 million.
0:01:06 > 0:01:08That is a delusional comment.
0:01:08 > 0:01:10Right. I'll take a punt with you.
0:01:10 > 0:01:14So this is an offer, but it's got a big caveat.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21Leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden...
0:01:22 > 0:01:26..telecoms giant Peter Jones...
0:01:26 > 0:01:30..and hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne
0:01:30 > 0:01:34have between them struck deals worth more than £7 million in the Den.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40But ready to fight for the next shrewd investment is the creator
0:01:40 > 0:01:45of her own world-renowned interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen,
0:01:45 > 0:01:48and cloud computing pioneer Piers Linney.
0:01:50 > 0:01:54The multimillionaires will give each entrepreneur just 3 minutes to pitch
0:01:54 > 0:01:59their idea and then interrogate them on every aspect of their business.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03To face them takes nerve and vision,
0:02:03 > 0:02:05so who will leave with the Dragons' money?
0:02:12 > 0:02:17Welcome to Dragons' Den, where budding entrepreneurs get the chance
0:02:17 > 0:02:20to pitch their inventions and ideas to five self-made
0:02:20 > 0:02:23millionaires in the hope of securing investment.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26Some will earn life-changing rewards.
0:02:26 > 0:02:28The rest leave with nothing.
0:02:29 > 0:02:32First up tonight an entrepreneur who thinks
0:02:32 > 0:02:36he has the power to electrify the Den with a product that promises to
0:02:36 > 0:02:38save both energy and money.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41But being environmentally friendly doesn't always guarantee the green
0:02:41 > 0:02:43stuff from the Dragons.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08Hi. Good day to you all.
0:03:08 > 0:03:11Have you ever walked into a room and found that lights are left on,
0:03:11 > 0:03:16TVs, games consoles or, you know, a charger?
0:03:16 > 0:03:19This used to happen to me regularly. I have four children.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21I would walk into the bedroom
0:03:21 > 0:03:25and it would be lit up like Blackpool illuminations.
0:03:25 > 0:03:29Um, I was getting frustrated looking at my energy bills which were always
0:03:29 > 0:03:33rising and I was getting frustrated moaning at the kids all the time to
0:03:33 > 0:03:34turn things off.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38So having a kind of entrepreneurial mindset, I found myself
0:03:38 > 0:03:41sat down and the answer was staring at me from the corner of the room.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44It was a home alarm occupancy sensor.
0:03:44 > 0:03:48I used my engineering background in sensor
0:03:48 > 0:03:52and wireless communications background to take that and turn it
0:03:52 > 0:03:57into something that would switch off lights and appliances automatically.
0:03:57 > 0:04:01OK. So three years later, lots of blood, sweat and tears.
0:04:01 > 0:04:06I now have this shiny gadget you see before you called the energyEGG.
0:04:06 > 0:04:10And the energyEGG is available with major high-street retailers.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13It retails at £39.99.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17Um, and it can save you £60 in your electric bills over
0:04:17 > 0:04:20the course of a year in a living room.
0:04:20 > 0:04:24Let me show you how easy it is to use. You take it out of the box.
0:04:24 > 0:04:26You put the battery in the back of it.
0:04:26 > 0:04:27You press the button
0:04:27 > 0:04:32and it will sync up with the purpose-built control adapters.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34So here you've got a control adapter.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37You've got a power strip and you've got a light switch.
0:04:37 > 0:04:39So it will control all of these to switch off your lights
0:04:39 > 0:04:44and appliances. You put it down beside your TV and that's it.
0:04:44 > 0:04:46It will start saving you money.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50You walk into a room, the lights will automatically switch on.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52You walk out of the room and the lights
0:04:52 > 0:04:55and appliances will automatically switch off.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58Thank you very much for the opportunity to present to you today.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01I'd be happy to take any questions that you have.
0:05:03 > 0:05:08An energising pitch from Brian O'Reilly from Glasgow.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11He wants £50,000 for just 8% of his business,
0:05:11 > 0:05:14selling his energy-saving devices.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17But Peter Jones wants less of the sales patter
0:05:17 > 0:05:21and more of the practicalities of his key product.
0:05:21 > 0:05:25I don't think you've even explained this product at all.
0:05:25 > 0:05:27You haven't shown us how it works.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30You haven't shown us how it's installed.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33You haven't shown us how it would work in an average house.
0:05:33 > 0:05:36- You've got to get back to basics for your pitch.- OK.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38- Show us... How does it work? - Absolutely.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41You've got a control adapter there. This control adapter here.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44- The first time you plug it in...- So I get a control adapter with the egg?
0:05:44 > 0:05:47With the egg. Yes. So that's John Lewis just now. If you went in...
0:05:47 > 0:05:50Stop the advertising piece. Just get on with the explanation.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54So you plug it in and the first time you press the button,
0:05:54 > 0:05:59it will synchronise with the socket. Trust me. It's very simple to set up.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01Anyone can do it. I apologise that I didn't...
0:06:01 > 0:06:05Anybody can do it, but if they have the plug socket to plug in the wall,
0:06:05 > 0:06:06they change their light switch
0:06:06 > 0:06:10and no doubt when you want to go to a four or five gang,
0:06:10 > 0:06:12you've got another product you've got to buy.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14We did it based on customer feedback.
0:06:14 > 0:06:18So some of the feedback that we had was... what do I do with my Sky+ box, for example?
0:06:18 > 0:06:21Because I want to keep that on all the time.
0:06:21 > 0:06:25So we developed a power strip that's got two permanently on sockets
0:06:25 > 0:06:28and it's got four wirelessly controlled sockets.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31Plus we've got a product roadmap where
0:06:31 > 0:06:34we are building Wi-Fi technology into the energyEGG.
0:06:34 > 0:06:37I've actually got a demo of a phone app with me just now.
0:06:37 > 0:06:41And effectively you just press the buttons and it will...
0:06:41 > 0:06:47..through your home Wi-Fi network send a signal to the different, um...
0:06:47 > 0:06:49So that's the... The lights on and off.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53And you can do that with the appliances as well.
0:06:53 > 0:06:58So this egg and those devices today work with that app?
0:06:58 > 0:07:01Not that egg.
0:07:01 > 0:07:02I knew you'd say that.
0:07:02 > 0:07:07So to get the next egg to work with that app, what does that need?
0:07:07 > 0:07:08More money?
0:07:08 > 0:07:14We could have a working energyEGG ready for the market
0:07:14 > 0:07:16with about £15,000.
0:07:16 > 0:07:20I mean...it's very simple. That's what I like about it.
0:07:23 > 0:07:26Piers Linney has discovered a component of Brian's business that
0:07:26 > 0:07:30could fit neatly into his cloud computing portfolio.
0:07:30 > 0:07:35Now Duncan Bannatyne wants to focus his energies on the company's finances.
0:07:36 > 0:07:39Did you say you're selling this at the moment in John Lewis.
0:07:39 > 0:07:41Yes, I did. And on Tesco direct.
0:07:41 > 0:07:45- So what is your financial turnover in the last year, then?- Um, £33,000.
0:07:45 > 0:07:48And what's your gross profit and net profit?
0:07:48 > 0:07:55Um, it was £7,000 for net and our gross was -£120,000.
0:07:56 > 0:07:57It's the other way round.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01- It's the other way round, but you lost £120,000?- Yes.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03What's your projection for the year going ahead
0:08:03 > 0:08:04if you don't get an investment?
0:08:04 > 0:08:10- Um, £200,000.- Turnover?- Yes.- So how are you funding all these losses?
0:08:10 > 0:08:12Um, we've got investors just now.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15All right. How many investors have you got? Who owns the company?
0:08:15 > 0:08:18- Let's do that. - OK. I own 40% of the company.
0:08:18 > 0:08:23And there are nine shareholders, six investors.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27Right. And how much... Sorry, what percentage do they own?
0:08:27 > 0:08:31Um, well, I owned 40%, so they own the other 60%.
0:08:31 > 0:08:35So if you keep losing money the way you're losing money,
0:08:35 > 0:08:37when do you run out of money?
0:08:37 > 0:08:40We run out of money in about four months' time.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46- So you're really in big trouble then.- Yes.
0:08:46 > 0:08:49- Are your investors willing to put more money in?- Yes.
0:08:49 > 0:08:51So you're not in big trouble then.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53You're only in big trouble if you run out of money
0:08:53 > 0:08:55and nobody wants to put more money in.
0:08:55 > 0:09:00- OK. Yeah.- But will you put more money in it or are you skint?- I'm skint.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04- So they will take a bigger share. - Potentially, yes.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07Yeah. I think you're in a lot of trouble then, Brian.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13Not good for the inventor as Duncan Bannatyne detects
0:09:13 > 0:09:17some major cracks in energyEGG's balance sheet.
0:09:17 > 0:09:22And Kelly Hoppen is underwhelmed by the company's struggling sales.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26I think you've kind of missed the boat slightly
0:09:26 > 0:09:31because you obviously have created something that is incredibly useful,
0:09:31 > 0:09:36saves energy, but, um, the product is in John Lewis
0:09:36 > 0:09:38and is not really making sales.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41And that is a great platform for you to start selling in.
0:09:41 > 0:09:43I would buy one of those,
0:09:43 > 0:09:46but it's not something that I think I would invest in.
0:09:47 > 0:09:49- For that reason, I'm out. - OK. Thank you.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55Kelly Hoppen has no instinct to invest
0:09:55 > 0:09:58and makes an abrupt exit from the deal.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02Can Piers Linney uncover a brighter future for the company?
0:10:05 > 0:10:09- So what's your forecast next year? - Um, £1.2 million.
0:10:09 > 0:10:13Have you got any orders to show you can get from 200 K this year
0:10:13 > 0:10:15to 1.2 million next year?
0:10:15 > 0:10:17I'm confident that we will have an order...
0:10:17 > 0:10:21..purchase order value of £80,000 in about a month's time.
0:10:21 > 0:10:23- That's one order.- Yeah.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27I'm confident that we will have agreed with a large facilities
0:10:27 > 0:10:30management company another order for £60,000.
0:10:30 > 0:10:37Um, I like it, but you've got a big problem in your business structure.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41To get me involved in a business that...at 8%
0:10:41 > 0:10:44and to really get my attention - that ain't going to happen.
0:10:44 > 0:10:49But you've now embedded a structure in your organisation that doesn't
0:10:49 > 0:10:53allow somebody like me to own an enough of a chunk of the business to
0:10:53 > 0:10:55really give it what it needs.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57If you don't mind me asking, Deborah,
0:10:57 > 0:11:00what kind of shareholding did you have in mind?
0:11:00 > 0:11:03I would certainly be looking at something beyond 25%.
0:11:03 > 0:11:09If you took on 25% of the business, then I would be...
0:11:09 > 0:11:15..I would be sitting around, I think, 20%, 24%, 25%, 26% I'd end up owning.
0:11:15 > 0:11:20- I'd need my wee capitalisation table. - How much more money do you need?
0:11:20 > 0:11:24- About £100,000.- So double that. So Deborah... We might...
0:11:24 > 0:11:28I might invest and give you... ask for 30%.
0:11:28 > 0:11:31The other investors are going to put a similar amount of money in.
0:11:31 > 0:11:32That's now 60%.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35You're then down to something with a two in front of it.
0:11:35 > 0:11:39So will you get out of bed in the morning with the same...
0:11:39 > 0:11:40Are you making...
0:11:40 > 0:11:43Did you interrupt me to make the very same point I was making, Piers?
0:11:43 > 0:11:45- I'm just checking. - No. Because...no.
0:11:45 > 0:11:48Because if you did, you've kind of broken my flow of conversation.
0:11:48 > 0:11:49It would be a lot easier for me
0:11:49 > 0:11:52if I could just have a conversation and follow that conversation.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55- Unless you want half a million. - It makes it really difficult.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58To quickly answer Piers' question, yes, I would get out of bed in the morning.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01- Sorry.- All right. OK, guys. Um, you're... I'm out.
0:12:03 > 0:12:07The Den is crackling with tension as the Dragons' squabbling
0:12:07 > 0:12:10results in a sharp exit from Deborah Meaden.
0:12:10 > 0:12:14Could the lights be about to go out on Brian's pitch?
0:12:14 > 0:12:18- Duncan Bannatyne is next to decide. - Deborah is right, you know.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21If she offers you 25%, you drop to 30%.
0:12:21 > 0:12:25So you'll have less shareholding than some of your investors.
0:12:25 > 0:12:27And that actually doesn't actually help
0:12:27 > 0:12:29when you get out of bed in the morning.
0:12:29 > 0:12:31You wake up and drive to work and go in and you have a bad day
0:12:31 > 0:12:35and I think that's a major problem.
0:12:35 > 0:12:39Um, I think if I invested your shareholding would come down
0:12:39 > 0:12:41that low you'd leave and I'd end up having to run the business
0:12:41 > 0:12:43or paying someone else to run it.
0:12:43 > 0:12:44So I'm afraid I'm out.
0:12:48 > 0:12:52Another Dragon declined the opportunity to invest.
0:12:52 > 0:12:56Has Peter Jones heard anything to give him a change of heart?
0:12:58 > 0:13:06- So, Brian... I have been... I don't feel like I'm grumpy.- You are.
0:13:07 > 0:13:10But I think it's because I got a bit frustrated
0:13:10 > 0:13:13because I think you're incredibly credible.
0:13:13 > 0:13:15I think you've taken investment to build a product.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18Your biggest problem is that you fallen into what I would say
0:13:18 > 0:13:20a midmarket trap.
0:13:20 > 0:13:21You need to, for me,
0:13:21 > 0:13:25differentiate to a whole bigger degree than just this egg.
0:13:25 > 0:13:29You need to have a home solution or a home kit,
0:13:29 > 0:13:30which I think would work for you.
0:13:30 > 0:13:33But it's not something that I would like to invest in
0:13:33 > 0:13:36because for £50,000, you need another £400,000.
0:13:36 > 0:13:39And then maybe you've got a chance of making it.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42So Brian, I'm going to wish you all very best of luck, but I'm out.
0:13:42 > 0:13:43Thank you.
0:13:45 > 0:13:47Peter Jones has declared his hand,
0:13:47 > 0:13:51leaving Piers Linney the last Dragon standing.
0:13:51 > 0:13:56Can he see a way around the thorny issue of that complicated share structure?
0:13:57 > 0:14:02So you're asking an investor - me - to give you some money today,
0:14:02 > 0:14:04negotiate a deal with your other investors to keep you interested
0:14:04 > 0:14:10- and they're not here.- The existing investors have given me a kind of...
0:14:11 > 0:14:14- ..some bandwidth in terms of, you know, negotiating.- OK.
0:14:14 > 0:14:19If I said to you I'll give you £50,000.
0:14:19 > 0:14:21I want 30% of the company
0:14:21 > 0:14:23but it's all coming off your existing investors,
0:14:23 > 0:14:26so you stay where you are, would they agree to that?
0:14:27 > 0:14:32- Potentially.- But they're not here, are they?- They're not.
0:14:53 > 0:14:55Right. I'll take a punt with you.
0:14:55 > 0:14:58So this is an offer, but it's got a big caveat.
0:14:58 > 0:15:03So I will give you £50,000, all the money, for 30% of the business.
0:15:03 > 0:15:06But it's coming off the other investors. That's it.
0:15:06 > 0:15:11And if you can't agree that with them once you've left the Den,
0:15:11 > 0:15:12then there is no deal.
0:15:13 > 0:15:16OK. Yeah, yeah. That's...
0:15:16 > 0:15:20- I'll take that back to the investors. - Good luck.
0:15:21 > 0:15:23Thank you, Piers.
0:15:23 > 0:15:25A handshake, an agreement
0:15:25 > 0:15:28and light at the end of the tunnel for the entrepreneur who leaves
0:15:28 > 0:15:31the Den with a promising business proposition.
0:15:35 > 0:15:38I was particularly interested in Piers
0:15:38 > 0:15:41because I knew that he was involved in cloud computing.
0:15:41 > 0:15:44I believe that Piers has the background and the knowledge to
0:15:44 > 0:15:49really help us progress as a business and develop our product roadmap.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55So a deal with a twist from Piers Linney,
0:15:55 > 0:15:59the Dragon who will go to any lengths to get an investment.
0:15:59 > 0:16:00I like it.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03I've spotted a design problem.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08He'll happily still a deal from under the other Dragons' noses.
0:16:08 > 0:16:10So all the money.
0:16:11 > 0:16:15- But for 30%.- You undercut us, didn't you?
0:16:16 > 0:16:20£100,000, but for 15%.
0:16:21 > 0:16:27- Flipping hell.- The full 60 K for 10% of the whole thing.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30If it's what it takes to get an investment,
0:16:30 > 0:16:33the Den's new boy is also happy to canvass his CV.
0:16:33 > 0:16:38I've been in pharmaceutical research, record labels, dance music,
0:16:38 > 0:16:42talent management, telecoms, corporate finance, technology.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44I used to value companies for a living.
0:16:44 > 0:16:46I've built businesses that are worth millions.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50Tens of millions over the last five years, during three recessions.
0:16:50 > 0:16:52You name it, I've done it.
0:16:52 > 0:16:57The cloud computing giant may have sky-high success,
0:16:57 > 0:17:01but he's still got his finger on the common man's pulse.
0:17:01 > 0:17:03Now, luckily for me my days of wearing suits are well
0:17:03 > 0:17:04and truly over.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07A lot of people that need to dispose of nappies don't drink lattes.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09Especially not at five pounds each.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12I don't live in the country like some of the other Dragons.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14If I got a chainsaw out of my garden,
0:17:14 > 0:17:16somebody would probably call the police.
0:17:16 > 0:17:19You would ask the Dragon, you know, what they're going to bring to
0:17:19 > 0:17:22the party, but I wouldn't mind asking Piers what he's going to bring.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24Youth.
0:17:24 > 0:17:26THEY LAUGH
0:17:26 > 0:17:30Good answer.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33But even though he's the Den's Mr Nice Guy,
0:17:33 > 0:17:35get on the wrong side of Piers Linney
0:17:35 > 0:17:37and you'll soon know about it.
0:17:37 > 0:17:41Unless you're willing to get into that lift, come out the other side
0:17:41 > 0:17:45and call whoever you work for and resign, it doesn't work.
0:17:45 > 0:17:47If you come in front of a panel of investors
0:17:47 > 0:17:50and you say I want to manufacture rubber hot water bottles,
0:17:50 > 0:17:54which I can't protect against people in China that churn out
0:17:54 > 0:17:57hundreds of thousands, would you invest in it? No.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00You don't know your numbers, you don't know your product,
0:18:00 > 0:18:03you don't know your market, and you want £1 million.
0:18:03 > 0:18:04It's just unbelievable, actually.
0:18:04 > 0:18:06I'm just pretty upset,
0:18:06 > 0:18:09but I'm just going to leave it there because if I carry on it's going to get messy.
0:18:09 > 0:18:11So I'm out.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21Next into the Den is Erika Brodnock.
0:18:21 > 0:18:25She's an entrepreneur who's used some difficult personal experiences
0:18:25 > 0:18:28to come up with a product range she's hoping will improve the
0:18:28 > 0:18:30emotional well-being of children.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34Let's see what the Dragons make of it.
0:18:46 > 0:18:48Hello, Dragons.
0:18:48 > 0:18:53My name's Erika Brodnock and I'm CEO of Karisma Kidz, and mum of five.
0:18:53 > 0:18:58Karisma Kidz is a fun, safe, engaging brand that helps children to
0:18:58 > 0:19:00manage their moods and build self-esteem.
0:19:02 > 0:19:08Today we're asking for £60,000 in exchange for 10% of our company.
0:19:10 > 0:19:14Five years ago, I was diagnosed as having bipolar disorder and told
0:19:14 > 0:19:19that the only option was medication every day for the rest of my life.
0:19:19 > 0:19:23I refused to accept that and I found some amazing alternative tools
0:19:23 > 0:19:29and techniques that enabled me to completely turn my life around.
0:19:29 > 0:19:32Having got my life back on track I started to look at the effects
0:19:32 > 0:19:35that my illness had had on my own children.
0:19:35 > 0:19:39I had done some research and I found that my children weren't alone.
0:19:39 > 0:19:44One in four experiences anxiety and depression, with one in ten
0:19:44 > 0:19:47children being diagnosed with a mental health disorder.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52All children can benefit from being able to build self-esteem
0:19:52 > 0:19:54and manage their emotions.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02Over the last 12 months,
0:20:02 > 0:20:06we've built a range of products that have teamed personal development
0:20:06 > 0:20:10tools, education and play in a way that's never been done before.
0:20:10 > 0:20:14We've been receiving really high acclaim and we've already won
0:20:14 > 0:20:19an innovation award and we were named as a top 20 start-up of 2012.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24With your help, we'd like to complete the build of the online
0:20:24 > 0:20:29platform that is Moodville, scale it and launch it to market.
0:20:29 > 0:20:32Would it be OK for me to give you a doll each?
0:20:32 > 0:20:33- Yeah.- Yeah.
0:20:36 > 0:20:38Thank you very much.
0:20:38 > 0:20:40We've recorded ten positive self-esteem building
0:20:40 > 0:20:42messages on each of the dolls.
0:20:42 > 0:20:48- I am a Karisma Kid and so are you. - I'm a Karisma Kid and so are you.
0:20:48 > 0:20:52- You're a hero, just like me. - Oh, thank you.
0:20:52 > 0:20:54I know you've had a bad day, sweetheart, but hang in there.
0:20:54 > 0:20:56You can do it.
0:20:56 > 0:20:57So come on, Dragons.
0:20:57 > 0:21:01Jump on the Trust Train and take a ride around Moodville with me
0:21:01 > 0:21:02and the Karisma Kidz.
0:21:02 > 0:21:04Thank you very much for listening.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11A charismatic pitch from Erika Brodnock from London.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14She's looking for £60,000 for her doll
0:21:14 > 0:21:17and app range designed to help children.
0:21:18 > 0:21:20- DOLL:- Peter Jones is the favourite Dragon.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25You can't get much better than that, can you?
0:21:25 > 0:21:29The mood in the Den may be jovial, but Piers Linney looks confused.
0:21:32 > 0:21:36- Erika. Hi, I'm Piers.- Hello, Piers.- You said quite a lot.
0:21:36 > 0:21:40- I still don't get it. - So this is Moodville.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45And in Moodville there are areas such as Fear Farm and Angry Alley
0:21:45 > 0:21:50and then they go back into Love Lane, Gratitude Gardens and as I say,
0:21:50 > 0:21:52they take a ride around the Trust Train too.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58They're able to fill in profiles which link back to both schools
0:21:58 > 0:22:00and their parents.
0:22:00 > 0:22:04And so children are able to make mention of how it is that they're
0:22:04 > 0:22:07feeling on any given day, what their favourite things are
0:22:07 > 0:22:10and also if there are things that they don't like
0:22:10 > 0:22:12so that people are aware of what it is
0:22:12 > 0:22:16that that child needs, especially for when babysitters are coming around.
0:22:16 > 0:22:17So, um...
0:22:17 > 0:22:20So the children are asked, "How are you feeling?" Or is a parent
0:22:20 > 0:22:23looking at what they're doing and saying, "Right, they're in the
0:22:23 > 0:22:24"Gratitude Garden" or, I don't know,
0:22:24 > 0:22:28the moody lawn or whatever it might be and then saying, "Oh, they're not
0:22:28 > 0:22:32"feeling very happy," and then going to interact with them off-line?
0:22:32 > 0:22:37- It's a combination of both. - Is the answer yes?- Yes.- Thank you.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39How do you make money? I can see charms down here.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43- You know, £24.99 for a Wow Star.- OK.
0:22:43 > 0:22:49So we make money by selling the platform into schools
0:22:49 > 0:22:52and they subscribe to the platform.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55We've got schools that are already interested in taking it in.
0:22:55 > 0:23:02And, um, after that the app will offer the opportunity for parents
0:23:02 > 0:23:05to subscribe to charms that will reward their children.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08OK. So I'm a parent. The school has subscribed for this.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11They're paying you a licence fee for access.
0:23:11 > 0:23:15So are you saying that if my child does something great at school,
0:23:15 > 0:23:17I have to buy charms?
0:23:17 > 0:23:19No. You're given a certain amount of charms.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23You can actually buy more charms if there was more good behaviour.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27And what we're doing is saying that positivity breeds positivity.
0:23:27 > 0:23:31If a school issues a child with a Wow Star at school,
0:23:31 > 0:23:33the child is then feeling wow about that.
0:23:33 > 0:23:37A parent is then notified that their child's had a Wow Star at school
0:23:37 > 0:23:39and they can then reinforce that positive behaviour.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41So nobody's going to buy those.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43Your way of making money is by selling the platform.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45So is this a...
0:23:45 > 0:23:50In addition to licensing, merchandise, as well as publishing.
0:23:50 > 0:23:54- Is this a therapy or... What is it? - It's a toy.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57It is a toy that has the added value of teaching...
0:23:57 > 0:23:59Doesn't sound like much fun.
0:24:02 > 0:24:08Erika is still a long way from convincing a sceptical Piers Linney to invest.
0:24:08 > 0:24:12But Deborah Meaden is harbouring much stronger views.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15- Erika, hi. I'm Deborah. - Hello, Deborah.
0:24:15 > 0:24:18You come across really well. You look great.
0:24:18 > 0:24:22And I can see the thinking behind it. Um...
0:24:22 > 0:24:23I don't like it.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27The minute you can say, "Do you know what? It's OK.
0:24:27 > 0:24:29"I don't have to watch that child.
0:24:29 > 0:24:32"I don't have to interact any more because I can gather the data
0:24:32 > 0:24:34"that I get from that interaction on the screen."
0:24:34 > 0:24:36I think that's worse, not better.
0:24:36 > 0:24:40See, the children are playing on the computers
0:24:40 > 0:24:43whether they're playing this game or they're playing another game.
0:24:43 > 0:24:44I think that by playing this game,
0:24:44 > 0:24:48they're giving their parents information that they need in terms
0:24:48 > 0:24:52of looking at how they are feeling that will then spark conversation.
0:24:52 > 0:24:55Yeah, but parents who are having to go onto a computer to find out
0:24:55 > 0:24:57how their children are...
0:24:58 > 0:25:01It just feels intrinsically wrong.
0:25:01 > 0:25:02You see, the problem there, Erika,
0:25:02 > 0:25:08is I don't think schools should be paying a licence fee for toys.
0:25:08 > 0:25:12I think it gets even worse than that. How much does that cost?
0:25:12 > 0:25:18- The interactive doll is £39.95. - £39.95.
0:25:19 > 0:25:23The actual commercial way that you make money is to take those children
0:25:23 > 0:25:27that you have got engaged in schools and then you go and you sell.
0:25:27 > 0:25:31- That's not true at all. - So a doll for £39.95.
0:25:31 > 0:25:33That's not true at all because schools is one channel.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35It's not the only channel.
0:25:35 > 0:25:38All right. Park schools. Now let's talk about children in their home.
0:25:38 > 0:25:40OK.
0:25:40 > 0:25:44So children in their home are playing on games all the time and then they
0:25:44 > 0:25:49end up buying a range of products that come off the back of said games.
0:25:49 > 0:25:53These products have the added benefit of giving positive messages,
0:25:53 > 0:25:57allowing parents to record positive messages on for their children
0:25:57 > 0:26:00and building the child's self-esteem and confidence.
0:26:00 > 0:26:04Or the negative benefit of parents buying something that they
0:26:04 > 0:26:07believe is going to be good and help their children
0:26:07 > 0:26:12and then you hook into that and try and sell them something for £39.95.
0:26:12 > 0:26:14No. Because they don't...
0:26:14 > 0:26:17It's not a prerequisite that you play on the platform
0:26:17 > 0:26:19and then you have to buy the toy.
0:26:19 > 0:26:24That's not what our business is based on in its entirety.
0:26:24 > 0:26:25You don't need to waste your time on me.
0:26:25 > 0:26:28You absolutely can see I'm not going to change my mind and invest in you.
0:26:28 > 0:26:30- No, that's fine. - I'm out.
0:26:33 > 0:26:35Harsh criticism of the entrepreneur's business
0:26:35 > 0:26:39model from an incredulous Deborah Meaden.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43But Peter Jones has been watching with interest.
0:26:45 > 0:26:49I feel you've been given a hard time.
0:26:52 > 0:26:53So do I.
0:26:54 > 0:26:57It's hard, isn't it, listening to all that?
0:26:57 > 0:27:03You've held yourself together... incredibly well.
0:27:03 > 0:27:07I don't agree with the route that Deborah was going down.
0:27:07 > 0:27:11My issue with what you've done here is that I think you have come up
0:27:11 > 0:27:14with something that actually is very, very good.
0:27:14 > 0:27:18I think that the confusion is you've tried to come and pitch it
0:27:18 > 0:27:24and turn it into a business, and I think you could tweak that very,
0:27:24 > 0:27:29very easily in terms of the fact that what you're trying to sell...
0:27:31 > 0:27:32..you don't sell.
0:27:32 > 0:27:33OK.
0:27:33 > 0:27:38So you don't make the money on selling these tokens
0:27:38 > 0:27:40and these Wow Stars.
0:27:40 > 0:27:43And the school, because I think this is a school product that you're
0:27:43 > 0:27:49trying to push, you focus on the licence fee rather than the parent
0:27:49 > 0:27:54having to pay for all of these things like the dolls
0:27:54 > 0:27:56and these extra tokens outside of it.
0:27:56 > 0:28:00And for me, if you'd pitched that, I'd kind of get it.
0:28:00 > 0:28:02And that's where I'm in a halfway house
0:28:02 > 0:28:04between exactly where Deborah's there saying...
0:28:04 > 0:28:06I'm sorry, Peter. You're not in a halfway house.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08I absolutely totally agree with that.
0:28:08 > 0:28:10If she'd just come in saying, "I've got a great toy...
0:28:10 > 0:28:14"I've got a great program for schools to engage with children.
0:28:14 > 0:28:17"I'm going to make no money out of it." We are agreeing totally.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20It is this that causes me the problem.
0:28:22 > 0:28:24I guess all I will say in response to that is that
0:28:24 > 0:28:28I came with an idea for a business.
0:28:28 > 0:28:34What I'm seeking from the Dragons is support in taking that business to
0:28:34 > 0:28:39market in the most effective way that will generate a commercially
0:28:39 > 0:28:43successful business, but then also help as many children as possible.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49A canny response from the entrepreneur, but she shows
0:28:49 > 0:28:53she's willing to budge on that divisive business model.
0:28:53 > 0:28:56But Kelly Hoppen has an altogether different concern.
0:28:57 > 0:28:59All children need confidence. All kids, you know...
0:28:59 > 0:29:01Kids get bullied at school. I was bullied at school.
0:29:01 > 0:29:03I know what it was like.
0:29:03 > 0:29:05Um, but I think, for me, I'm just...
0:29:05 > 0:29:07..I'm looking at this and I think it's fantastic.
0:29:07 > 0:29:11It just scares me a little bit in that you're giving information about
0:29:11 > 0:29:18children to, um...people that perhaps were not their family.
0:29:18 > 0:29:23And that you are, um, perhaps helping them
0:29:23 > 0:29:26in a way that is not endorsed perhaps by psychologists.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29I mean, how do you know what you're doing is correct, is what I'm trying to say.
0:29:29 > 0:29:33We have a couple of psychologists on the team.
0:29:33 > 0:29:37We've got a clinical psychologist on the team that has given us
0:29:37 > 0:29:42a letter of endorsement that we have available for you to have a look at,
0:29:42 > 0:29:47as well as a research psychologist that specialises in play.
0:29:47 > 0:29:51And the only people that would have access to the child's account
0:29:51 > 0:29:55would be their parents, but they would just get the information so
0:29:55 > 0:29:58they could pass it on to whoever they saw fit in terms of babysitters
0:29:58 > 0:30:01or what have you, um, and schools.
0:30:01 > 0:30:04I don't like it. It's like Big Brother watching.
0:30:04 > 0:30:08The doll itself, I don't have a problem with because yes, that is
0:30:08 > 0:30:09going to give a child confidence.
0:30:09 > 0:30:11The fact that it's linked into this...
0:30:11 > 0:30:16..this system that you've created... I don't like it. I really don't.
0:30:16 > 0:30:19That on its own, fine. Hate this.
0:30:19 > 0:30:22At the moment, we're in a stage of development.
0:30:22 > 0:30:26The online platform has been started, but it's not complete.
0:30:26 > 0:30:31So there is the ability to make changes to that.
0:30:31 > 0:30:35There's no point in trying to sell it to me because I'm out.
0:30:39 > 0:30:43The news that the business has some expert backers couldn't persuade
0:30:43 > 0:30:45Kelly Hoppen to invest.
0:30:45 > 0:30:47Now two Dragons are out
0:30:47 > 0:30:50and it's time for Duncan Bannatyne to have his say.
0:30:52 > 0:30:56What concerns me is this encourages a child to go on a computer
0:30:56 > 0:30:59and many children have got computers in their bedrooms,
0:30:59 > 0:31:01they go up to it and they get a bit bored with this
0:31:01 > 0:31:04so they switch to something else like Facebook.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07The fact is it's encouraging a child on the computer
0:31:07 > 0:31:08and so I can't invest in it.
0:31:08 > 0:31:10So therefore I'm out.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14I think there may be an application as a therapy,
0:31:14 > 0:31:17but, you know, dropping out this stuff, selling people things,
0:31:17 > 0:31:19unless that's part of the package for the therapy.
0:31:19 > 0:31:21People know what they're getting,
0:31:21 > 0:31:23what they're paying for in the package.
0:31:23 > 0:31:26But other than that, just... It's too much.
0:31:26 > 0:31:27I don't get it, so I'm out.
0:31:29 > 0:31:35Four Dragons are out, leaving only Peter Jones left in the race.
0:31:36 > 0:31:40Will he back up his support for the product with hard cash?
0:31:42 > 0:31:45If I just take the doll out of this business plan...
0:31:46 > 0:31:49..I still quite like what you've created.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56And I don't also have a problem with the school funding it.
0:31:56 > 0:31:59We get enough money ploughed into our schools
0:31:59 > 0:32:03and actually I see this more as a social enterprise...
0:32:07 > 0:32:12That, outside of the Den, would get my wholehearted support
0:32:12 > 0:32:15and actually probably would get a bit of money from me.
0:32:15 > 0:32:18And that's the only reason why I congratulate you for coming up with
0:32:18 > 0:32:22it, congratulate you on the journey, but it's not an investment for me.
0:32:22 > 0:32:24- So for that reason, I'm out.- OK.
0:32:24 > 0:32:27- Good luck, Erika. - DOLL:- You're amazing.
0:32:27 > 0:32:29THEY LAUGH
0:32:29 > 0:32:31I know.
0:32:31 > 0:32:33Despite a brave attempt to defend her product,
0:32:33 > 0:32:38Erika couldn't convince the Dragons her idea was investment material.
0:32:38 > 0:32:41Karisma Kidz certainly provoked some strong opinions,
0:32:41 > 0:32:45but only cash counts in the Den and she leaves with nothing.
0:32:46 > 0:32:49I completely believe in my product.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52I think that Deborah's wrong in everything that she said
0:32:52 > 0:32:55and Karisma Kidz is a force for good.
0:32:59 > 0:33:03So far tonight only one entrepreneur has managed to seal a deal with
0:33:03 > 0:33:06- a Dragon.- Thank you, Piers.
0:33:06 > 0:33:10Will any of these plucky business wannabes follow suit
0:33:10 > 0:33:13and secure the cash they so desperately need?
0:33:13 > 0:33:16You said you had this in Selfridge's.
0:33:16 > 0:33:18What happened at the end of the trial period?
0:33:18 > 0:33:21- Unfortunately we didn't get to stay in.- Yeah. Because you flopped.
0:33:22 > 0:33:25- Are seagulls endangered? - That's an albatross.
0:33:25 > 0:33:27- Oh, is it? - HE LAUGHS
0:33:27 > 0:33:29It's a big seagull.
0:33:36 > 0:33:40Former Royal Marine Simon Weatherall is next into the Den,
0:33:40 > 0:33:43hoping to build a new career for himself with a business selling
0:33:43 > 0:33:47a clothing range aimed at the safety conscious fitness fanatic.
0:34:22 > 0:34:26Hi. My name is Simon Weatherall. I'm an ex Royal Marine commando.
0:34:26 > 0:34:31I left the Marines in 2003 after the Iraq war.
0:34:31 > 0:34:38I'm here today to pitch for £80,000 for 30% of my company Glow Faster.
0:34:39 > 0:34:43Did you know you're 11 times more likely to be hit
0:34:43 > 0:34:47and killed by traffic at night rather than in daylight hours?
0:34:47 > 0:34:49High-visibility clothing
0:34:49 > 0:34:54and single-point lighting reduces this by 50%.
0:34:54 > 0:35:00To me, 50% wasn't enough. So I invented Glow Faster stripes.
0:35:02 > 0:35:05Glow Faster offers a total body lighting solution.
0:35:05 > 0:35:10It can be powered and operated using a mobile phone or a mobile device.
0:35:10 > 0:35:13It's fun and it's motivating.
0:35:13 > 0:35:17It allows traffic to see the hazards in front or behind.
0:35:17 > 0:35:19In three years' time,
0:35:19 > 0:35:22I've calculated the business to be worth £2.5 million.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25So it's a great return on your investment.
0:35:25 > 0:35:27I've had a lot of interest in this product,
0:35:27 > 0:35:31including that of one of the UK's largest police forces
0:35:31 > 0:35:33and local authorities.
0:35:34 > 0:35:37If this product truly helps to save lives,
0:35:37 > 0:35:39it's got to be worth the investment.
0:35:39 > 0:35:44So watch your investment grow faster with Glow Faster. Thanks very much.
0:35:44 > 0:35:46Can I just...
0:35:46 > 0:35:47Can I just say, Simon, that is
0:35:47 > 0:35:51the most unfriendly children's crossing man I've ever seen.
0:35:51 > 0:35:55Lollipop man. In my life. Just give us a little smile.
0:35:55 > 0:35:57- He's not really a children's crossing man.- I got that.
0:35:57 > 0:36:00- I gathered that. Is he your dad? - Yeah. He's my dad. Yeah.
0:36:00 > 0:36:02THEY LAUGH
0:36:04 > 0:36:06- Can you tell?- Yeah.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09Thanks very much, guys. That's all.
0:36:12 > 0:36:18A pitch with military precision from Royal Marine turned inventor Simon Weatherall.
0:36:18 > 0:36:24He wants £80,000 to give his light up road safety system a financial glow.
0:36:24 > 0:36:27But Peter Jones is in the mood for mischief.
0:36:29 > 0:36:33Simon, can you just go and use your Christmas tree lights or...?
0:36:33 > 0:36:35It wouldn't look quite as good.
0:36:35 > 0:36:38Um, you could effectively put some other lights on.
0:36:38 > 0:36:43This is electroluminescent, so it allows it to be flexible.
0:36:43 > 0:36:47This runs for eight hours off of a single triple-A battery.
0:36:47 > 0:36:49But you don't need it to run for eight hours, do you?
0:36:49 > 0:36:53- Unless you're, you know, running two marathons at night.- Yeah. That's...
0:36:53 > 0:36:55..that's a fair point. Um, but it will be efficient.
0:36:55 > 0:36:59You would probably be all right running down the high street in that
0:36:59 > 0:37:02tracksuit, being a Royal Marine, because you can look after yourself.
0:37:02 > 0:37:03Yeah.
0:37:03 > 0:37:06But do you not think you might attract people outside a pub
0:37:06 > 0:37:10looking at you running down looking like something out of The Matrix?
0:37:10 > 0:37:13Do you not think that you might get the Mickey taken out of you?
0:37:13 > 0:37:14Potentially.
0:37:14 > 0:37:17I think there's a certain user group that would like to use this product.
0:37:17 > 0:37:19From what I've seen, I've had a lot of interest from people.
0:37:19 > 0:37:21It's very viral. It spreads well.
0:37:21 > 0:37:23As a business, I think it's a really great opportunity.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26And also, I mean, for yours to be seen you'd have to run at night
0:37:26 > 0:37:27sideways, wouldn't you?
0:37:27 > 0:37:30I think there's a lighting pattern, so you can see in front and behind.
0:37:30 > 0:37:32But there's nothing at the front or the back.
0:37:32 > 0:37:35So unless you're going to get hit by a car side on...
0:37:35 > 0:37:38I think you can have different layouts with the designs.
0:37:38 > 0:37:40The key thing, as I say, is the attachment.
0:37:40 > 0:37:43But one of the most important things is this bioluminescence.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46So it's actually lighting the limbs,
0:37:46 > 0:37:48not just lighting a single point on the front.
0:37:48 > 0:37:50Why can't you have...
0:37:50 > 0:37:53..like, a Bannatyne T-shirt with those lights on it?
0:37:53 > 0:37:58You could. I've actually got patented a detachable system for the lights.
0:37:58 > 0:38:02And also it can be attached to any type of clothing,
0:38:02 > 0:38:03whether it's trousers, tops.
0:38:03 > 0:38:07- So can I see it? How it's attached. - I've got you some jackets.
0:38:07 > 0:38:09I just want to see how it's attached to the...
0:38:12 > 0:38:15Despite some early criticism of his product,
0:38:15 > 0:38:18Simon is managing to keep the Dragons on side.
0:38:18 > 0:38:22But the opportunity to take a closer look has unearthed a potential
0:38:22 > 0:38:24design flaw to Piers Linney.
0:38:26 > 0:38:29- If I pull this out... - Yeah.- Getting it back in...
0:38:29 > 0:38:32- You know those, like, plastic bags where you have to reseal them?- Yeah.
0:38:32 > 0:38:35It's like spending half an hour trying to reseal one of those things
0:38:35 > 0:38:38that's this long and I'm sure this is a prototype,
0:38:38 > 0:38:39so you'll improve that,
0:38:39 > 0:38:41but it is a pain to get that back in.
0:38:41 > 0:38:44It's a very... I mean, I agree.
0:38:44 > 0:38:47There are methods that I've got and I've looked at.
0:38:47 > 0:38:51Developing those methods is obviously the next level for some of this.
0:38:51 > 0:38:52I believe it's workable at the moment.
0:38:52 > 0:38:54It will take a couple of minutes to put it back in.
0:38:54 > 0:38:56If you want to pursue this,
0:38:56 > 0:38:58it needs to be something that can be easily attached.
0:38:58 > 0:39:02And sewing some sort of plastic tube into clothing which you have to
0:39:02 > 0:39:03integrate into the clothing
0:39:03 > 0:39:06and then fit this into it isn't going to work.
0:39:06 > 0:39:10This isn't going to fly in its current form.
0:39:10 > 0:39:14If you can evolve it, maybe it will. This won't, so I'm afraid I'm out.
0:39:14 > 0:39:15Thank you very much.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18I personally don't think the design works.
0:39:18 > 0:39:20It just looks like you've attached the sort of things you
0:39:20 > 0:39:24get at concerts that you pull and put round your neck or your wrist.
0:39:24 > 0:39:29Um, but I wish you luck with it, but I'm not going to invest.
0:39:29 > 0:39:31- I'm sorry. Thank you.- OK. Thank you very much.
0:39:33 > 0:39:38Frustration for Simon as two Dragons retreat from negotiations.
0:39:39 > 0:39:44Now Peter Jones wants to know more about the military man.
0:39:45 > 0:39:50- How long did you spend in Iraq? - About four months, five months.- Wow.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52Well, I'll say congratulations for that
0:39:52 > 0:39:55because there's nothing better than somebody doing that.
0:39:55 > 0:39:57What else have you done, business-wise?
0:39:57 > 0:40:00I started a fitness company working for myself.
0:40:00 > 0:40:04I then got an online business alongside that which, um,
0:40:04 > 0:40:08has got a mobile phone app and about 12,000 members.
0:40:08 > 0:40:11It's effectively a website that creates fitness and nutrition plans
0:40:11 > 0:40:13that are tailored specifically for you.
0:40:13 > 0:40:17So you would put in your criteria of what you were looking for -
0:40:17 > 0:40:20lose weight, tone up, get fit.
0:40:20 > 0:40:23You'd then effectively put in what your dietary requirements were.
0:40:23 > 0:40:26It will calculate you the shopping list that you need
0:40:26 > 0:40:29and then it automatically sends that to Tesco using an API and people
0:40:29 > 0:40:32can download their shopping basket and get all the food delivered.
0:40:32 > 0:40:34That's so much... That's such a better idea.
0:40:34 > 0:40:36Why didn't you pitch that?
0:40:36 > 0:40:38I believe that this is a much better idea.
0:40:38 > 0:40:40I mean, obviously a difference in opinions there.
0:40:40 > 0:40:43But I think, you know, I think this is a great product.
0:40:43 > 0:40:46I really believe in it. I'm going to make it work, you know.
0:40:46 > 0:40:48If it's with you guys today, then that would be fantastic,
0:40:48 > 0:40:51but I will give my arms and legs before I, you know, get this to work.
0:40:51 > 0:40:54- Really?- Well, probably not.- Don't do that.
0:40:54 > 0:40:56THEY LAUGH
0:40:56 > 0:40:58I wouldn't light up in the suit, then, would I?
0:40:58 > 0:41:00It would only be a single point.
0:41:00 > 0:41:02THEY LAUGH
0:41:04 > 0:41:08The entrepreneur is certainly entertaining the troops,
0:41:08 > 0:41:10but there's still no sign of any cash.
0:41:11 > 0:41:14Is Duncan Bannatyne ready to offer some?
0:41:16 > 0:41:20I think you should remain in the business you're in.
0:41:20 > 0:41:24The fitness business. Um...
0:41:24 > 0:41:27- ..but for this business, I've got to say, I'm out.- Thank you.
0:41:27 > 0:41:29Thank you very much.
0:41:29 > 0:41:31Simon, can I ask how much money have you put into this?
0:41:31 > 0:41:36- About £3,000 to get it to where it is now.- I'm relieved to hear that.
0:41:36 > 0:41:40Because I think you presented very well. You come across very well.
0:41:40 > 0:41:43But actually, fundamentally, you've identified
0:41:43 > 0:41:47the core of this as safety and I'm just not as convinced as you
0:41:47 > 0:41:51are that it is better than what we currently have.
0:41:51 > 0:41:53So afraid I'm going to have to join the others
0:41:53 > 0:41:56and declare myself out. So I'm out.
0:41:56 > 0:41:57Thank you very much.
0:41:59 > 0:42:02It looks like the glow is beginning to fade on Simon's
0:42:02 > 0:42:06pitch, as four Dragons exit proceedings.
0:42:06 > 0:42:10Only Peter Jones can save the entrepreneur from an immediate
0:42:10 > 0:42:13exit from the Den.
0:42:13 > 0:42:15You said in three years you'll make £2.5 million.
0:42:15 > 0:42:18- That is a delusional comment.- Sorry.
0:42:18 > 0:42:20I calculated the business to be worth £2.5 million.
0:42:20 > 0:42:23It will not be worth £2.5 million, and that's not a challenge.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26It is impossible. That's the reason why I can't invest, Simon.
0:42:26 > 0:42:30I wish you the very best of luck, but I won't investing today.
0:42:30 > 0:42:32- I'm out.- Thank you very much. Enjoy those jackets.
0:42:32 > 0:42:34Thank you.
0:42:34 > 0:42:38- Mine doesn't fit. It's too tight. - Sorry.- Lose some weight, then.
0:42:38 > 0:42:40THEY LAUGH
0:42:40 > 0:42:41I know a good trainer.
0:42:41 > 0:42:43THEY LAUGH
0:42:47 > 0:42:49The Dragons certainly enjoyed Simon's pitch,
0:42:49 > 0:42:54but in the end, glow in the dark tracksuits just weren't their style.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59Our next entrepreneurs thought they'd stand a better
0:42:59 > 0:43:01chance of impressing this well-heeled panel
0:43:01 > 0:43:04with their products aimed at the smarter dresser.
0:43:04 > 0:43:09So first of all, forgive me for entering the Den without a tie on,
0:43:09 > 0:43:11but there's good reason for that.
0:43:12 > 0:43:16Chris Gibson thought his SuperTie invention took all the fuss
0:43:16 > 0:43:18out of fastening the accessory.
0:43:18 > 0:43:21To operate the tie, what you do is you flick the little catch here,
0:43:21 > 0:43:24you slide it through, throw it over...
0:43:26 > 0:43:28..slide it up into place and then you're done.
0:43:30 > 0:43:34While Tony Higson had a no-crease solution to packing a suit.
0:43:34 > 0:43:37The Freefold is a lightweight suit carrier.
0:43:37 > 0:43:40It can be removed from any type of luggage, from a 25L backpack for a
0:43:40 > 0:43:43cyclist up into a piece of carry-on luggage for the airline industry.
0:43:43 > 0:43:47If you just bare with me, I'll very quickly get changed into something
0:43:47 > 0:43:49a little bit more appropriate. Don't run away.
0:43:51 > 0:43:54Back to Chris and his SuperTie.
0:43:54 > 0:43:58The Dragons were divided on whether the tie maketh the man.
0:43:58 > 0:44:03I love a tie. I always take pride in the way that I look.
0:44:03 > 0:44:07I spent many years in the city in law wearing these things.
0:44:07 > 0:44:11I think they're an absolutely pointless appendage.
0:44:11 > 0:44:16- I think the day of the tie is over. - Piers is so wrong...
0:44:16 > 0:44:18..to say that the tie is finished.
0:44:18 > 0:44:22A tie is such an important part of a man's wardrobe.
0:44:22 > 0:44:27But where the Dragons all agreed was that a creased suit is sacrilege.
0:44:27 > 0:44:32- You all right behind there? - Sorry to keep you. Won't be a moment.
0:44:32 > 0:44:36- And when Tony finally emerged from behind the screen...- Ta-da.
0:44:36 > 0:44:40..Piers Linney had some thoughts on how he had escaped the clutches of
0:44:40 > 0:44:42those dreaded wrinkles.
0:44:42 > 0:44:43What's your suit made out of?
0:44:43 > 0:44:47This is just a standard polyester suit that I had.
0:44:47 > 0:44:49Which don't tend to crease.
0:44:49 > 0:44:52You put my suit in there, if I had a suit,
0:44:52 > 0:44:54and took it out, it would not look anything like your suit.
0:44:54 > 0:44:56Duncan Bannatyne wanted to know
0:44:56 > 0:45:01whether the tie's retail success was as super as its name suggested.
0:45:01 > 0:45:05- You said you had this in Selfridge's.- That's right. Yes.
0:45:05 > 0:45:07What happened at the end of the trial period?
0:45:07 > 0:45:10- Unfortunately, we didn't get to stay in.- Yeah. Because you flopped.
0:45:10 > 0:45:13Well, some might say that,
0:45:13 > 0:45:16but the way I see it is we actually performed extremely well.
0:45:16 > 0:45:19In the end, none of the Dragons could be convinced either product
0:45:19 > 0:45:21was suitable for investment.
0:45:22 > 0:45:24I don't know what the world's coming to.
0:45:24 > 0:45:27I mean, this is the most ridiculous idea.
0:45:27 > 0:45:30So I think when you were at college or wherever it was
0:45:30 > 0:45:33and having a problem tying your tie, you should have spent more time
0:45:33 > 0:45:36learning to tie it properly instead of inventing this ridiculous thing.
0:45:36 > 0:45:39It's not something I would invest in, especially not 80 K.
0:45:39 > 0:45:41I can't see a reason why it would work anywhere,
0:45:41 > 0:45:43so I'm really sorry, Chris. I'm out.
0:45:45 > 0:45:50- So you like a man in a tie, Kelly Hoppen?- I like a man in a tie.
0:45:50 > 0:45:53So do I. There's actually something compelling about that, isn't there?
0:45:53 > 0:45:54THEY LAUGH
0:45:59 > 0:46:04Next up is mum of two Jo Kerley who has a product
0:46:04 > 0:46:07she thinks can provide stress-free travel for parents.
0:46:07 > 0:46:10Now, it's a suitcase, but a rather special one.
0:46:10 > 0:46:14It's packed with all the components needed to keep the kids occupied.
0:46:26 > 0:46:28Right.
0:46:39 > 0:46:41Hi.
0:46:41 > 0:46:43My name is Jo Kerley.
0:46:43 > 0:46:47I'm the managing director and... of JK Worldwide
0:46:47 > 0:46:50and the designer of the PlayAway case.
0:46:50 > 0:46:54I'm here today to seek a £60,000 investment in my business
0:46:54 > 0:46:57JK Worldwide.
0:46:57 > 0:47:00Plus the advice and guidance of the Dragons.
0:47:00 > 0:47:03My journey started three years ago when my husband
0:47:03 > 0:47:05and I took our two young children on a long haul flight
0:47:05 > 0:47:07and we found out just how stressful it was
0:47:07 > 0:47:09actually travelling with children.
0:47:09 > 0:47:12Since then I've made it my mission to create the ultimate travel
0:47:12 > 0:47:14product for children.
0:47:14 > 0:47:17This is it. It's the PlayAway case.
0:47:17 > 0:47:21The PlayAway case is a really practical luggage item that offers
0:47:21 > 0:47:23practical luggage space for clothing.
0:47:23 > 0:47:26This reduces down on hold luggage fees for parents.
0:47:26 > 0:47:30The front of the case removes very neatly, revealing the hidden
0:47:30 > 0:47:35boardgame that children can play in the car or actually in the airport.
0:47:35 > 0:47:37Once on the plane,
0:47:37 > 0:47:39the main carcass of the case fits in the overhead cabin.
0:47:45 > 0:47:47This is the PlayPod.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50And the PlayPod comes complete with loads of activities.
0:47:50 > 0:47:53Playing cards based on man-made attractions from around the world,
0:47:53 > 0:47:56the activity pads, the crayons, the dice
0:47:56 > 0:47:58and the counters to play the game.
0:47:58 > 0:48:03We've also created all of our own characters. They're The Pioneers.
0:48:03 > 0:48:06All of them are endangered species or at risk.
0:48:06 > 0:48:10We've been going through two years of research and development,
0:48:10 > 0:48:14and what we've actually achieved is our first container of product
0:48:14 > 0:48:17arriving in the UK yesterday.
0:48:17 > 0:48:19We've got quite a diverse business opportunity
0:48:19 > 0:48:24here in terms of licensing and in terms of sales and distribution.
0:48:24 > 0:48:27And we have a signed letter of intent for distribution to
0:48:27 > 0:48:33the whole of the US and Asia with the fifth-largest supplier in the US.
0:48:33 > 0:48:35Thank you for your time.
0:48:35 > 0:48:37We would welcome a Dragon on board our adventure
0:48:37 > 0:48:39because this is the biggest one we've ever had.
0:48:39 > 0:48:44So can I interest anybody to have a play? Would you like to?
0:48:46 > 0:48:47- There you are.- Thank you.
0:48:47 > 0:48:50A compact pitch from Jo Kerley from Ipswich.
0:48:50 > 0:48:51Please do. Yes.
0:48:51 > 0:48:55She's looking for £60,000 to get her children's luggage
0:48:55 > 0:48:59- business off the ground.- You may look at the PlayPod on the front.
0:48:59 > 0:49:03On offer is a 20% stake for any Dragon who comes on board.
0:49:05 > 0:49:08Duncan Bannatyne is on the case with some questions.
0:49:09 > 0:49:12- It looks very sturdy.- It is.
0:49:12 > 0:49:15- You've got a container load just arrived?- Absolutely.
0:49:15 > 0:49:21- We ordered in 1,400 units of which we'd already presold 1,100 units.- OK.
0:49:21 > 0:49:26- So who have they sold to?- Small independents and groups like Fenwick.
0:49:26 > 0:49:27OK. So what did they cost you to make?
0:49:27 > 0:49:34They cost me £19.33. And the trade price is £33.33.
0:49:34 > 0:49:40- And we're retailing them at £79.99. - The company JK Worldwide.- Yes.
0:49:40 > 0:49:43I want to look at its balance sheet. Does it have debt?
0:49:43 > 0:49:46We have a £19,000 overdraft
0:49:46 > 0:49:51and I have input £160,000 in the form of a director's loan.
0:49:51 > 0:49:54£179,000 is a lot of debt.
0:49:54 > 0:50:00And it's a lot of debt to make before you start making a profit
0:50:00 > 0:50:02and that could be one of the issues.
0:50:05 > 0:50:09Some mid-pitch turbulence for Jo as Duncan Bannatyne unearths some
0:50:09 > 0:50:12serious financial baggage.
0:50:12 > 0:50:17Now Piers Linney wants to know just how child-friendly the product is.
0:50:18 > 0:50:21- Hi, Jo. I'm Piers.- Hi, Piers.- Um...
0:50:22 > 0:50:25So I'm just trying to work out just fundamentally, I mean,
0:50:25 > 0:50:29my daughters would get bored of that board game very quickly.
0:50:29 > 0:50:31- So that's one issue with it. - I agree with you.
0:50:31 > 0:50:35Children will get bored with that. So we've created sticky games.
0:50:35 > 0:50:37And you know the covering that you have on your mobile phone?
0:50:37 > 0:50:40We've created nine different games that will go into that recess.
0:50:40 > 0:50:42And you've got the characters.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45So what you're adding there though is a whole different facet
0:50:45 > 0:50:47to your business.
0:50:47 > 0:50:49Well, what we looked at was when we started the business
0:50:49 > 0:50:53we wanted to licence some characters but the cost of the characters was
0:50:53 > 0:50:56prohibitive for us, so we created our own.
0:50:56 > 0:50:59Because of each of them being an endangered species, and because also
0:50:59 > 0:51:03they're pioneers, it offers inspiration and education by stealth.
0:51:03 > 0:51:07- Are seagulls endangered? - That's an albatross.- Oh, is it?
0:51:07 > 0:51:09THEY LAUGH
0:51:09 > 0:51:11- It's a big seagull. - That's an albatross.- Sorry.
0:51:11 > 0:51:14- It looked like a seagull to me. - That's Amy Jo, our albatross.
0:51:14 > 0:51:16- Not endangered in Camden, I can tell you that for a fact.- No.
0:51:16 > 0:51:18- That's our albatross.- OK.
0:51:22 > 0:51:25Piers Linney may not know a seagull from an albatross,
0:51:25 > 0:51:29but he can spot a good investment a mile off.
0:51:29 > 0:51:30While he mulls over the proposition,
0:51:30 > 0:51:34Peter Jones wants to discuss the product's design.
0:51:36 > 0:51:40- Jo.- Yes. Hi.- Um, I mean, congratulations.
0:51:40 > 0:51:43You've created a product which is great.
0:51:43 > 0:51:46But let's get back to reality. It's just a case.
0:51:46 > 0:51:49Now, I know that to you, being the inventor,
0:51:49 > 0:51:53you will continually argue about this main piece that comes off.
0:51:53 > 0:51:59Are kids going to open it up like this and sit there like that and...
0:51:59 > 0:52:00..it's...
0:52:02 > 0:52:05See, what we've done with that is by putting the clips on the side,
0:52:05 > 0:52:07it actually opens as a book.
0:52:08 > 0:52:12What I'm saying is that I think that you've created something that
0:52:12 > 0:52:19all of this goes in here... and it's the same as any other case.
0:52:19 > 0:52:21And when I go on a plane with my children, as I do,
0:52:21 > 0:52:25they take a case like this. But they take the things out of the case.
0:52:25 > 0:52:28That goes into the hold. They've got the thing that they want.
0:52:28 > 0:52:31It's the specific tablet, iPad or game.
0:52:31 > 0:52:33And as a result of that,
0:52:33 > 0:52:37I would prefer and my children would prefer to have a rucksack.
0:52:37 > 0:52:39OK.
0:52:39 > 0:52:41And that's the reason, the only reason why
0:52:41 > 0:52:44I can't see an opportunity to invest in this business.
0:52:44 > 0:52:47So Joe, I'm sadly going to say for that reason I'm out.
0:52:50 > 0:52:54A case of tough love for Jo as Peter Jones takes himself
0:52:54 > 0:52:55out of the investment equation.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59Which way will Kelly Hoppen go?
0:53:01 > 0:53:02I don't like the product.
0:53:02 > 0:53:07I feel like the boardgame on there, great as it is the first time you
0:53:07 > 0:53:10- open it, by the next trip they're bored with it.- Absolutely.
0:53:10 > 0:53:14And I take that on board, which is why we created the sticky games.
0:53:14 > 0:53:16It doesn't matter if you've got ten sticky things.
0:53:16 > 0:53:20Eventually they're... How many are you going to make? Um...
0:53:20 > 0:53:24It's just not something that I would invest in. I'm afraid I'm out.
0:53:25 > 0:53:31- Jo.- Hi.- Children don't worry about the practicalities of travel.
0:53:31 > 0:53:34- That is their parents' problem. - Absolutely.
0:53:34 > 0:53:37What they want is they want what they want to play
0:53:37 > 0:53:39with on the aeroplane when they want to play with it.
0:53:39 > 0:53:43And I'm afraid I agree with Peter. I don't think that's enough.
0:53:43 > 0:53:48It's not good enough to hold their attention. The game certainly isn't.
0:53:48 > 0:53:52So the child, and you know the child usually wins in these situations
0:53:52 > 0:53:54because if they don't... if they're not entertained, boy,
0:53:54 > 0:53:57can they make life difficult with travel.
0:53:57 > 0:54:01- So I might as well tell you really, really quickly, I'm out.- Thank you.
0:54:01 > 0:54:03Jo, I mean...
0:54:04 > 0:54:07I'm going to ask myself would I buy one because I have a daughter
0:54:07 > 0:54:11that's just about in this age bracket. And the answer is no.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14And if the answer is no, I'm afraid it's not something I'd invest in.
0:54:14 > 0:54:16- So I'm afraid I'm out too. - OK. Thank you.
0:54:18 > 0:54:23Jo is four Dragons down, with only one to go.
0:54:23 > 0:54:26Can Duncan Bannatyne see beyond the company's debts
0:54:26 > 0:54:29and offer the entrepreneur a cash lifeline?
0:54:30 > 0:54:31I quite like it, Jo.
0:54:31 > 0:54:34I don't agree with Peter's assessment that this keeps falling
0:54:34 > 0:54:38down, cos I think it can sit up quite easily.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41The problem is the debt.
0:54:42 > 0:54:44You know, if I invest in this...
0:54:45 > 0:54:48..you've got a director's loan account.
0:54:48 > 0:54:51You're going to take that out. When am I ever going to see a return?
0:54:51 > 0:54:54Having the director's loan as equity wouldn't be a problem.
0:54:54 > 0:54:56It was never an intention to take that out.
0:54:56 > 0:55:01- Where did you get £160,000 to invest in this?- My family. My friends.
0:55:01 > 0:55:08Basically my mum and everybody who saw the product and liked it.
0:55:08 > 0:55:14So if that £160,000 was converted into equity,
0:55:14 > 0:55:19I'd be willing to make you an offer for the full amount, £60,000.
0:55:19 > 0:55:23But I want... I want 35% of the company.
0:55:32 > 0:55:33OK.
0:55:33 > 0:55:38And, Duncan, could we, for that, get your advice and guidance and help us
0:55:38 > 0:55:42with marketing and getting the product tailored to market?
0:55:42 > 0:55:44Of course.
0:55:44 > 0:55:48You know, any business I invest in, I get involved in all aspects of it.
0:55:48 > 0:55:50So yes. Of course. Yeah.
0:56:01 > 0:56:05- Then I'd love 35%.- Fantastic.- What?!
0:56:05 > 0:56:07I'd rather have a small part of something large.
0:56:07 > 0:56:09- So thank you very much indeed. - Well done.
0:56:12 > 0:56:13Jo has done it.
0:56:13 > 0:56:16She had to give away more equity than she'd planned to,
0:56:16 > 0:56:19but she's bagged herself a deal with a highly experienced
0:56:19 > 0:56:22multimillionaire in the process.
0:56:27 > 0:56:29That was a dark horse, Mr Bannatyne.
0:56:31 > 0:56:34You know what? It's got to go £60,000 for 35% with no debt.
0:56:37 > 0:56:38It is a real turning point.
0:56:38 > 0:56:42To have a Dragon on board with your business is massive.
0:56:42 > 0:56:45It's the difference between getting to the stratosphere or just making
0:56:45 > 0:56:47a business tick along.
0:56:47 > 0:56:50And I think with Duncan on board we're going to make the stratosphere.
0:56:54 > 0:56:58- It looks good on you.- I can see your face on it at the airport.
0:56:58 > 0:56:59THEY LAUGH
0:56:59 > 0:57:01The Dragon.
0:57:01 > 0:57:04I can see the new Bannatyne character coming in.
0:57:07 > 0:57:09- See ya, guys. - THEY LAUGH
0:57:09 > 0:57:11There you go.
0:57:11 > 0:57:13That was definitely worth the money.
0:57:13 > 0:57:17That was a ridiculous investment. Don't ever come back into the Den.
0:57:18 > 0:57:20Good riddance.
0:57:32 > 0:57:35If ever you wanted evidence that when it comes to business
0:57:35 > 0:57:39the experts don't always agree, we've had plenty in the Den today.
0:57:39 > 0:57:42Both Duncan Bannatyne and Piers Linney went it alone,
0:57:42 > 0:57:46spotting an opportunity where the others saw none.
0:57:46 > 0:57:49Now they have to prove it can pay to stick your neck out.
0:57:49 > 0:57:52You'll have your own view, so join the conversation about all
0:57:52 > 0:57:57of tonight's pitches on Twitter using the hashtag #dragonsden.
0:57:57 > 0:58:01- Next week in the Den... - People want it. Everybody wants it.
0:58:01 > 0:58:05- I can't sell enough. I can't make enough.- So what am I?
0:58:05 > 0:58:07- So you're Mungo the Monkey. - I'm Mungo.- You're Mungo.
0:58:07 > 0:58:10What's the cuddly toy called?
0:58:10 > 0:58:13I wouldn't want to invest in something like this.
0:58:13 > 0:58:15People are being sued all the time.
0:58:15 > 0:58:20I've had blazing rows over 1% of my business. This is gold dust.
0:58:20 > 0:58:21You don't just give it away.
0:58:21 > 0:58:23You've only got one order by the sound of it.
0:58:23 > 0:58:27- No. We've got Fenwicks and Bentalls which we've delivered.- Well then say!