0:00:27 > 0:00:29These are the Dragons.
0:00:30 > 0:00:37Wealthy, well-connected, innovative and influential.
0:00:37 > 0:00:43Each week, they make or break the dreams of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:43 > 0:00:46- It's just a toy.- It's just a toy. - It's just THAT you would value at £1 million?
0:00:46 > 0:00:50It's a bit airy-fairy to me and YOU are a bit, to be honest with you.
0:00:50 > 0:00:55- Do you think that's fair?- Yeah. I could lose a lot of money.
0:00:55 > 0:00:56Very easily.
0:00:56 > 0:01:00Trial and error with your own money is one thing but with mine,
0:01:00 > 0:01:01it's slightly worrying.
0:01:01 > 0:01:04So you either need to make an offer or you need to go out.
0:01:09 > 0:01:13Leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden,
0:01:13 > 0:01:17telecoms giant Peter Jones,
0:01:17 > 0:01:21and hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne
0:01:21 > 0:01:25have between them struck deals worth more than £7 million in the Den.
0:01:27 > 0:01:30But ready to fight for the next shrewd investment is
0:01:30 > 0:01:36the creator of her own world-renowned interior-design brand, Kelly Hoppen,
0:01:36 > 0:01:39and cloud computing pioneer, Piers Linney.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45The multimillionaires will give each entrepreneur just three minutes
0:01:45 > 0:01:48to pitch their idea and then interrogate them
0:01:48 > 0:01:51on every aspect of their business.
0:01:51 > 0:01:53To face them takes nerve and vision
0:01:53 > 0:01:55so who will leave with the Dragons' money?
0:02:03 > 0:02:07Welcome to Dragons' Den, where five great names in British business
0:02:07 > 0:02:11have the power and money to make or break
0:02:11 > 0:02:14the dreams of entrepreneurs pitching business ideas to them.
0:02:14 > 0:02:17Remember, the Dragons know nothing about the entrepreneurs
0:02:17 > 0:02:20or their ideas in advance of the pitch.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23They have to take their one chance to invest
0:02:23 > 0:02:25or walk away from the deal.
0:02:25 > 0:02:27First to enter the Den is Laura Bartlett,
0:02:27 > 0:02:30the founder of a fashion magazine, Urban Coco.
0:02:30 > 0:02:33Call her brave, but she wants to buck the latest trends
0:02:33 > 0:02:38by turning her online publication into a full, printed magazine.
0:02:53 > 0:02:57- Let's get this under control. - Good luck.- Thank you.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03# You lift my heart up
0:03:03 > 0:03:07# When the rest of me is down
0:03:07 > 0:03:10# You, you enchant me
0:03:10 > 0:03:15# Even when you're not around
0:03:15 > 0:03:19# If there are boundaries
0:03:19 > 0:03:23# I will try to knock them down
0:03:23 > 0:03:27# I'm latching on, babe
0:03:27 > 0:03:30# Now I know what I have found. #
0:03:31 > 0:03:35Hi. My name's Laura Bartlett from Urban Coco magazine.
0:03:35 > 0:03:40I'm here today to offer £100,000 for a 15% share in my business.
0:03:40 > 0:03:42It's something that I launched in June 2010.
0:03:42 > 0:03:46It started online as an online magazine and just a hobby, really,
0:03:46 > 0:03:50to write about fashion and events, initially in Leeds, but then started
0:03:50 > 0:03:53getting interest from all over the country and covering events in
0:03:53 > 0:03:57fashion in London and Manchester, to the point where in January last year,
0:03:57 > 0:04:01I decided to quit my full-time job and turn my hobby into a business.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04So I decided to move from online into print,
0:04:04 > 0:04:06so from later on this month, the magazine will be
0:04:06 > 0:04:09available on newsstands in 20 different countries
0:04:09 > 0:04:12and I'm here today to ask for the investment to help me
0:04:12 > 0:04:15turn my one-woman publishing machine into a fully-running company
0:04:15 > 0:04:17that's not just run by me.
0:04:17 > 0:04:20Happy to answer any questions that you might have.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27A model pitch from 26-year-old Laura Bartlett who is looking
0:04:27 > 0:04:33for £100,000 for a 15% stake in her fashion magazine, Urban Coco.
0:04:34 > 0:04:40Piers Linney is the first to question the fashionista entrepreneur.
0:04:40 > 0:04:41Hi, I'm Piers.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45Why are you going from online to offline where the whole industry
0:04:45 > 0:04:47is going in the opposite direction?
0:04:47 > 0:04:50If less people are doing it, you've got more chance of standing out.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53Like I say, it started in Leeds, so there weren't any other magazines in Leeds,
0:04:53 > 0:04:55so I thought that by moving into print
0:04:55 > 0:04:58and being the only fashion magazine in the city, it would be able to
0:04:58 > 0:05:00raise the profile of the brand
0:05:00 > 0:05:03and also with the whole blogging community and blogging
0:05:03 > 0:05:06becoming such a massive thing, it was kind of hard to stand out online.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10That is the main reason why I decided to move into print.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12It didn't really work online, did it?
0:05:12 > 0:05:16It did work online, yes, until, I think, blogging got so big.
0:05:16 > 0:05:18Tell me what "it worked" meant?
0:05:18 > 0:05:21It worked that I was generating revenue from online,
0:05:21 > 0:05:24advertisers, and also getting quite a lot of hits.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28So again... That's what I'm after, I'm after the successes on the online site
0:05:28 > 0:05:31and the indicators that said actually, this will work better.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34Yes, so I already had so many followers and fans
0:05:34 > 0:05:37- that I knew that if I moved into print...- How many?
0:05:37 > 0:05:398,000 unique visitors a month.
0:05:39 > 0:05:42OK, so 8,000 unique visitors a month.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46- Does that sound like a lot to you?- Um, yeah.
0:05:47 > 0:05:48Somewhat.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54The £100,000. What are you going to spend it on?
0:05:54 > 0:05:58To take on a full-time salesperson so there's someone dedicated to sales.
0:05:58 > 0:06:04- A salesperson is how much?- £18,000. Salary for myself, 25,000.- Yes.
0:06:06 > 0:06:0965,000 on marketing.
0:06:10 > 0:06:15Um, the graphic design, which is £20,000.
0:06:17 > 0:06:21Well, that's more than 100.
0:06:21 > 0:06:24- Then, that's it.- Well, no.
0:06:24 > 0:06:27- That's more than 100.- Yeah, the graphic designer isn't £20,000.
0:06:27 > 0:06:32- It's 13,500. It was £1,000... - Do want to do that again, then?
0:06:32 > 0:06:35Shall we... Because the question was, start with 100,000 -
0:06:35 > 0:06:37how are you going to spend it?
0:06:37 > 0:06:41- 25,000 on a salary for myself.- Yes.
0:06:41 > 0:06:43- 65 on marketing.- Yes.
0:06:44 > 0:06:50No, 50,000 on marketing. Um, yeah, and the graphic designer,
0:06:50 > 0:06:53and the full-time salesperson.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57Ooh! You do know it's beginning to sound like you're just plucking those numbers out of the...
0:06:57 > 0:07:00I'm not. It's just that I've kind of gone through them so many times.
0:07:00 > 0:07:02OK, well, I assume you're not just plucking those numbers
0:07:02 > 0:07:07out of the air but my worry is that the number that's reduced,
0:07:07 > 0:07:10which I thought was under-shooting it heavily anyway, marketing
0:07:10 > 0:07:16for £50,000 when you're going to be marketing in 20 different countries?
0:07:16 > 0:07:21- Yeah.- Does that sound like...that's going to even dent...?
0:07:21 > 0:07:23Erm, yeah, I think it...would.
0:07:25 > 0:07:27- Really?- Yeah.
0:07:29 > 0:07:35Laura's laissez faire attitude to her costs is confusing the Dragons.
0:07:35 > 0:07:39But Peter Jones, who has himself invested in a magazine,
0:07:39 > 0:07:41has altogether different concerns.
0:07:44 > 0:07:48- Have you heard of Wonderland magazine?- I have. It's fabulous.
0:07:49 > 0:07:53And when you first walked in and I saw these,
0:07:53 > 0:07:58being held by the models on the front cover, my heart started
0:07:58 > 0:08:01to race a little bit and it started to race
0:08:01 > 0:08:03not because of the models that were holding this
0:08:03 > 0:08:06but because of the fact that I was concerned that this could enter
0:08:06 > 0:08:11the market and be a competing product to Wonderland magazine.
0:08:11 > 0:08:17But the minute I got it in my hand, I breathed a massive sigh of relief.
0:08:17 > 0:08:21It's substandard quality, the content is just appalling,
0:08:21 > 0:08:26I'd expect better or more from a student.
0:08:26 > 0:08:30Whilst I'm happy because you will never,
0:08:30 > 0:08:33ever compete with something I own, I would suggest that you have
0:08:33 > 0:08:36a reality check, go back to the drawing board,
0:08:36 > 0:08:40and make this 100 times more impressive than what it is today.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43- OK.- And for that reason, sadly, Laura, I'm out.
0:08:45 > 0:08:48I appreciate your honesty. Thank you.
0:08:48 > 0:08:51A brutal assessment by Peter Jones.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53Will Kelly Hoppen, who has a good working
0:08:53 > 0:08:57knowledge of the glossy magazine sector, be any more sympathetic?
0:09:00 > 0:09:01I can see you're passionate.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04And the way you've presented yourself and the way you
0:09:04 > 0:09:07came into the Den, and it's always quite heartbreaking for me because
0:09:07 > 0:09:12I think that passion is part of what drives a business and what you do.
0:09:12 > 0:09:15But I think it's a lot of money, £100,000 to put in.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18You're going to swallow that up in five minutes.
0:09:18 > 0:09:23I think that you need to re-look at the magazine to have it more
0:09:23 > 0:09:27lifestyle so that's interiors, fashion, food, health,
0:09:27 > 0:09:30everything that people are interested in.
0:09:30 > 0:09:32But it's not a business that I would invest in,
0:09:32 > 0:09:35- so for that reason, I'm out. But good luck.- No worries. Thank you.
0:09:38 > 0:09:40I think what you have here,
0:09:40 > 0:09:45really, in many ways is a potential college project piece.
0:09:45 > 0:09:48I don't want to be unfair but I think that's how I view this.
0:09:48 > 0:09:53I think you are going against the flow in a global industry
0:09:53 > 0:09:56and you are competing with some very serious brands
0:09:56 > 0:10:00but I don't think you're going to be able to make any noises at all
0:10:00 > 0:10:02in the industry you're up against.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05So, I wouldn't invest in this, I'm afraid.
0:10:05 > 0:10:07- No worries.- So, I'm out.- Thank you.
0:10:09 > 0:10:13Um...just because this is such a difficult industry
0:10:13 > 0:10:18and you put a valuation on this of almost £700,000,
0:10:18 > 0:10:21I really can't invest £100,000 in it.
0:10:21 > 0:10:22- I'm out.- Cheers.
0:10:25 > 0:10:27Four Dragons out...
0:10:27 > 0:10:30only Deborah Meaden remains.
0:10:32 > 0:10:35I am delighted you have come to the Den today.
0:10:35 > 0:10:37Thanks.
0:10:37 > 0:10:42It's not because, I'm afraid, I'll be investing, because I won't.
0:10:42 > 0:10:47But I'm delighted because you came early enough to get that advice
0:10:47 > 0:10:50and, hopefully, stop you making those mistakes,
0:10:50 > 0:10:52so you can use that spark of ambition elsewhere.
0:10:52 > 0:10:58But I agree, everybody else is going the other way - for a reason.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00Yeah.
0:11:00 > 0:11:01It's not great.
0:11:02 > 0:11:04And valuation - crazy.
0:11:05 > 0:11:09So, no reason at all... You've given me no reason to invest,
0:11:09 > 0:11:13so, I'm afraid, I'm out.
0:11:13 > 0:11:14Thank you.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22A tearful Laura has failed to convince the Dragons that her
0:11:22 > 0:11:24fashion magazine has legs.
0:11:24 > 0:11:27She leaves the Den empty-handed.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35Thinking about what the Dragons said, I don't think they were wrong,
0:11:35 > 0:11:38I just think that was their opinion and I'm not going to change
0:11:38 > 0:11:39anything I was doing.
0:11:39 > 0:11:41I'm just going to continue down the path that
0:11:41 > 0:11:44I was going and try and prove them all wrong.
0:11:45 > 0:11:49It's not unusual for entrepreneurs who've invested time
0:11:49 > 0:11:52and money in their businesses, to have great self-belief.
0:11:54 > 0:11:57Whether it's a new type of toilet brush...
0:11:57 > 0:12:00The Toilet Maid has no messy bristles.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03..a device to get babies on their tummies...
0:12:03 > 0:12:07Tummy With Mummy is the world's only fold-away baby and toddler seat
0:12:07 > 0:12:10with a built-in tummy-time platform.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13..or a USB stick that the inventor thinks
0:12:13 > 0:12:15will solve our password problems.
0:12:15 > 0:12:19We all know that our passwords should look like this. However,
0:12:19 > 0:12:22humans can just not remember so many different things.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26Therefore, I proudly present to you, Aladdin.
0:12:26 > 0:12:29Whatever the merits of their idea, however,
0:12:29 > 0:12:32entrepreneurs need to follow certain rules in the Den.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34Oops. Sorry.
0:12:34 > 0:12:36The first is to be concise.
0:12:36 > 0:12:39It's our Tummy With Mummy here...
0:12:39 > 0:12:42..which is a giant market because it's global...
0:12:42 > 0:12:46..it's 4.3 million and if you take in all the...
0:12:46 > 0:12:51..through international retail, through licence...
0:12:51 > 0:12:53Clarity helps, too.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56I have been using one of these for most of my life.
0:12:56 > 0:12:57Um...
0:13:01 > 0:13:04Um... SHE MUMBLES
0:13:05 > 0:13:07Mmm!
0:13:07 > 0:13:11But even if memories fail and nerves take over...
0:13:11 > 0:13:13Do I start again? Or, what do I do?
0:13:13 > 0:13:17..entrepreneurs need to make sure any demonstration of their product
0:13:17 > 0:13:18is a triumph.
0:13:18 > 0:13:20What happens when the baby gets to the edge?
0:13:20 > 0:13:25If I put the baby on here now, it squashes down with the weight of the baby so they slip off the edge.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28They slip off the edge onto the floor - their face into the ground?
0:13:28 > 0:13:32Is that the "slide" part of your invention?
0:13:32 > 0:13:37All you do is swipe round, imagining what this actually is.
0:13:37 > 0:13:39TOILET FLUSHES
0:13:40 > 0:13:44If I found that key, can I break into it
0:13:44 > 0:13:46and extract that strong password?
0:13:46 > 0:13:49- Yes.- Well, that's not ideal, is it?
0:13:50 > 0:13:54A full grasp of facts and figures can help turn the Dragons around.
0:13:54 > 0:13:55Have you got orders, then?
0:13:55 > 0:13:59Not for the whole lot but we're part of the way there, yeah.
0:13:59 > 0:14:01What's part of the way? Have I got to guess that as well?
0:14:01 > 0:14:03Yes, you probably have to guess.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06I've got to guess what you did in your business?
0:14:06 > 0:14:08How many have you sold to date?
0:14:08 > 0:14:10Er, none.
0:14:10 > 0:14:13I've got to be honest, I hate what you've got.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16I think that is absolutely ridiculous.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19- Your pitch was appalling. - I think it's terrible.
0:14:19 > 0:14:21I'm completely confused.
0:14:21 > 0:14:23Everyone's trying to solve that problem. You haven't.
0:14:23 > 0:14:26Break the rules, face the inevitable.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29It's very, very simple...I'm out.
0:14:29 > 0:14:30Thank you very much.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32Thank you, Dragons. Have a nice...
0:14:32 > 0:14:33I'm not out yet!
0:14:34 > 0:14:35I'm out.
0:14:37 > 0:14:38ELEVATOR DINGS
0:14:42 > 0:14:44The phenomenal success of Levi Roots in the Den
0:14:44 > 0:14:47with his Reggae Reggae Sauce seems to have inspired
0:14:47 > 0:14:51lots of entrepreneurs to pitch food ideas to the Dragons.
0:14:51 > 0:14:53Hoping to win an investment with theirs
0:14:53 > 0:14:55are Timo Schmidt and James Carter
0:14:55 > 0:14:59who have a plan to deliver organic ingredients and recipes to the door.
0:15:24 > 0:15:27Hello. This is James, and I'm Timo.
0:15:27 > 0:15:32We're here today to ask you for £100,000 in return for 7% of equity.
0:15:34 > 0:15:36Do you find it difficult to cook healthy
0:15:36 > 0:15:38and delicious meals during the week?
0:15:38 > 0:15:40Writing a shopping list, going to the store
0:15:40 > 0:15:44and carrying home heavy bags can be pretty time-consuming.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48Every week, we design ten new recipes for you to choose from,
0:15:48 > 0:15:50to cook according to your preferences.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53Everything is then delivered straight to your door
0:15:53 > 0:15:56in the exact portion sizes.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58So there's absolutely no food waste.
0:16:00 > 0:16:02This concept originated in Sweden five years ago,
0:16:02 > 0:16:04since when it has grown rapidly,
0:16:04 > 0:16:08with currently 1% of the Swedish population using this concept.
0:16:08 > 0:16:10If you translate that across to the UK,
0:16:10 > 0:16:151% of the UK population is equivalent to a £750 million market opportunity.
0:16:17 > 0:16:19We are currently delivering 1,500 meals a month,
0:16:19 > 0:16:23and our customers, on average, spend £50 per order.
0:16:23 > 0:16:27To reach break even, we need to deliver 12,000 meals a month,
0:16:27 > 0:16:30which we expect to achieve within one year.
0:16:30 > 0:16:32Thanks very much.
0:16:32 > 0:16:37We'd now like to invite one of you to prepare our smoked trout salad meal.
0:16:37 > 0:16:39Of course, if none of you would like to do it,
0:16:39 > 0:16:42me and Timo will prepare it while we take your questions.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44I absolutely don't want to do it.
0:16:44 > 0:16:47I haven't cooked in 28 years.
0:16:47 > 0:16:50THEY LAUGH
0:16:50 > 0:16:53- I'll do it.- Sure. Great. Fantastic.
0:16:53 > 0:16:57An accomplished pitch from the boys behind Gousto.
0:16:57 > 0:17:00They're looking for £100,000 for a 7% stake
0:17:00 > 0:17:03in their gourmet meals home-delivery service.
0:17:03 > 0:17:07- Do I get an apron? - Erm, I can give you mine.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09- Yes, I think you should.- Sure.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12How can I be in the kitchen without my apron on?
0:17:12 > 0:17:15As Duncan Bannatyne gets to grips with the ingredients...
0:17:15 > 0:17:17Are you hungry, Peter?
0:17:17 > 0:17:21..Deborah Meaden wants to get a taste of their business model.
0:17:21 > 0:17:23Where are you sourcing products from?
0:17:23 > 0:17:25So, we've got a fishmonger in Scotland,
0:17:25 > 0:17:28we've got a farmer in Devon supplying the meat.
0:17:28 > 0:17:32The veg comes from Somerset, Kent, mainly from the UK -
0:17:32 > 0:17:34not entirely, but mainly.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36It's all organic.
0:17:37 > 0:17:40All these ingredients would come in separate bottles, marked?
0:17:40 > 0:17:42Absolutely.
0:17:42 > 0:17:44TIMO: So, it's labelled. You know exactly what it is.
0:17:46 > 0:17:48So, talk me through that timescale.
0:17:48 > 0:17:51How quickly do I see that box on my doorstep?
0:17:51 > 0:17:56At the moment, on a Wednesday, you choose the recipes you like to eat,
0:17:56 > 0:17:58then on Thursday we place orders,
0:17:58 > 0:18:00and then we deliver to you next week...
0:18:00 > 0:18:02Ah, right. So, this is a planned activity?
0:18:02 > 0:18:06So, what happens when somebody tries to deliver and there's nobody there?
0:18:06 > 0:18:08Has that happened to you yet?
0:18:08 > 0:18:11Our delivery success rate is 99% at the moment.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14So, on average, 1% are unsuccessful deliveries.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16But that's an acceptable margin to us.
0:18:16 > 0:18:19That's not just an acceptable margin, that's an excellent margin.
0:18:23 > 0:18:25- Is that it? - TIMO: Beautiful.
0:18:25 > 0:18:27JAMES: Absolutely. Looks wonderful.
0:18:27 > 0:18:29Mm! Want to taste it, Peter?
0:18:32 > 0:18:34There you go. Go and sit down and eat it.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42- Duncan, that's really good. - Thank you.
0:18:42 > 0:18:44Well done, Mr Bannatyne!
0:18:44 > 0:18:47THEY CLAP
0:18:47 > 0:18:48So far, so good.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50The food's going down well with the Dragons,
0:18:50 > 0:18:53and the entrepreneurs are keeping their cool.
0:18:55 > 0:18:57But Duncan Bannatyne wants to know
0:18:57 > 0:19:01if their balance sheet is as convincing as they are.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05What are your overheads? Are you in a kitchen, a warehouse...?
0:19:05 > 0:19:10The main fixed costs are the rent for the warehouse and our office.
0:19:10 > 0:19:14For the warehouse, it's approximately £3,600 a month,
0:19:14 > 0:19:20and then we also spend about close to £2,000 on the head office, as well.
0:19:20 > 0:19:21How are you funding that?
0:19:21 > 0:19:27So, to date, me and Timo each invested £75,000 each, individually.
0:19:27 > 0:19:31And we've also raised £130,000 from friends and family.
0:19:31 > 0:19:32Is it all gone?
0:19:32 > 0:19:36Nope. We have about £90,000 left over at the moment.
0:19:36 > 0:19:38You're losing money at the moment?
0:19:38 > 0:19:41- Yes, we are. - How much are you losing?
0:19:41 > 0:19:44Erm, at the moment, £25,000 a month.
0:19:47 > 0:19:48James, Timo, I'm Kelly.
0:19:50 > 0:19:54I worry about the fact that it's not that spontaneous.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57I might want a pizza one night, or something else.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59- So...- You eat pizza?
0:19:59 > 0:20:01If it's gluten-free.
0:20:01 > 0:20:05All I'm saying is, every time I've had one of those boxes delivered,
0:20:05 > 0:20:10with organic vegetables in, I've ended up wasting a lot.
0:20:10 > 0:20:11I don't know why.
0:20:11 > 0:20:13One of the key points I'd make to that,
0:20:13 > 0:20:16if I can jump in, is that quite often with those vegetable boxes,
0:20:16 > 0:20:19the thing that's missing is that extra step where it's made
0:20:19 > 0:20:21really easy for you to turn that into a fantastic recipe,
0:20:21 > 0:20:22which...
0:20:22 > 0:20:25I don't think you'll ever be in that situation where the box arrives
0:20:25 > 0:20:28- and you don't know what... - No, and I think it's great
0:20:28 > 0:20:31that you're showing somebody how to cook it.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35The biggest issue is you're losing a huge amount of money every month,
0:20:35 > 0:20:38and that doesn't show me that you're a great investment.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41Obviously, to set up this business, there is a small level
0:20:41 > 0:20:44of fixed costs which we need to start off with.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46And you have to start somewhere...
0:20:46 > 0:20:50£25,000 loss a month, I don't consider a small level.
0:20:52 > 0:20:58To establish a supply chain to do the fulfilment, to guarantee the 99%...
0:20:58 > 0:21:01Tell me about it. I've run businesses, I understand,
0:21:01 > 0:21:04but £25,000 - I'm amazed you describe that as a small...
0:21:04 > 0:21:06JAMES AND TIM TALK OVER EACH OTHER
0:21:06 > 0:21:08That is a lot of money to be losing a month
0:21:08 > 0:21:10when you've only got £90,000 in the bank.
0:21:10 > 0:21:12You've got... You've got...
0:21:12 > 0:21:15Right now, you've got three months ahead of you.
0:21:15 > 0:21:19You are not asking for anything like enough cash.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22- Ah!- Oh! It sounds like I've just stumbled
0:21:22 > 0:21:24across something quite important there.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27Absolutely. Probably should have mentioned it earlier.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30We have £90,000 in the bank at the moment.
0:21:30 > 0:21:35We are in very advanced stages of negotiation with some other
0:21:35 > 0:21:41angel investors who are going to invest £250,000 in the business.
0:21:41 > 0:21:42For what percentage?
0:21:42 > 0:21:49So, they're investing £250,000 for £23.4% of the business.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55A surprising development in the Den,
0:21:55 > 0:21:59as Timo and James reveal that other wealthy investors are prepared
0:21:59 > 0:22:02to inject a serious amount of money into their business.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06Peter Jones wants the fine detail.
0:22:08 > 0:22:11So, who are these angel investors?
0:22:11 > 0:22:16We can't disclose the names on TV. However, they are three guys,
0:22:16 > 0:22:18they've each spent 30 years
0:22:18 > 0:22:20in the food and warehouse and logistics industry
0:22:20 > 0:22:23as CEOs, chairmen of listed food companies -
0:22:23 > 0:22:25of the largest companies in this country.
0:22:25 > 0:22:27You're saying you can't say who they are?
0:22:27 > 0:22:28Mm-hm.
0:22:28 > 0:22:33If you're going to have a chance of getting me as an investor,
0:22:33 > 0:22:36you're going to have to disclose who these people are.
0:22:36 > 0:22:38Because...
0:22:38 > 0:22:41I wouldn't want to get involved in a business where
0:22:41 > 0:22:44I don't know the other partners.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Is that something we could...? We'd like to ask their permission.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50You're not on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire, you can't phone a friend.
0:22:50 > 0:22:52- Is it on the term sheet? - Yes, it is.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55- Read the term sheet, Peter. - Is it on the term sheet?
0:22:55 > 0:22:57- Yes.- I'll have the term sheet then.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00Are you glad the clever Dragon's here to help you out, Peter?
0:23:00 > 0:23:02Oh, be quiet, Granddad.
0:23:02 > 0:23:04HE LAUGHS
0:23:10 > 0:23:12Mm, guys, you've done really well.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17An unexpected reaction from Peter Jones,
0:23:17 > 0:23:21who seems impressed by the calibre of their angel investors.
0:23:21 > 0:23:25But has Piers Linney smelt a rat
0:23:25 > 0:23:28about the motives of the entrepreneurs
0:23:28 > 0:23:30for coming into the Den in the first place?
0:23:31 > 0:23:33Why are you here?
0:23:33 > 0:23:36Really? Why are you really, really here?
0:23:36 > 0:23:39You guys... I know you guys, I know where you're coming from.
0:23:39 > 0:23:43You can raise 250, 350, 500, probably, through those guys.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46Or, if they like you, their mates.
0:23:46 > 0:23:47You know, it's not a stretch.
0:23:47 > 0:23:50Are you here because it's the PR value of it?
0:23:50 > 0:23:52I'm just trying to understand, because...
0:23:52 > 0:23:54Two reasons. Number one is on the cash side.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57At the moment, it is a highly cash intense business.
0:23:57 > 0:24:00JAMES: The other thing which we really value from you
0:24:00 > 0:24:02is on the marketing side and also,
0:24:02 > 0:24:07it's always good to have another strategic voice in any...
0:24:07 > 0:24:09Well, whenever we're making any strategic decisions.
0:24:09 > 0:24:14I still don't think you've got anything like enough cash.
0:24:14 > 0:24:20I will be staggered if you're not looking at millions, not £250,000.
0:24:20 > 0:24:22I won't be investing, and I'm out.
0:24:23 > 0:24:25Thank you.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27I think you're both great.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30Anything to do with organic delivering, you know,
0:24:30 > 0:24:31the packaging is great.
0:24:31 > 0:24:34But I think that people like change.
0:24:34 > 0:24:37There's so many new brands and things happening and I think
0:24:37 > 0:24:41it's human nature that people don't want the same thing all the time.
0:24:41 > 0:24:43- Mm-hm.- I think you will haemorrhage money,
0:24:43 > 0:24:48and £100,000 from one of us and then 250 from your angels...
0:24:48 > 0:24:50I think you should take stock
0:24:50 > 0:24:52and think about where you are.
0:24:52 > 0:24:56It's just not something that I would invest in.
0:24:56 > 0:24:57I'm sorry, but I'm out.
0:24:57 > 0:24:58Thank you.
0:25:03 > 0:25:05I really like this.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08But I think you've come through the door with a shopping basket
0:25:08 > 0:25:11with too many things complicating this.
0:25:11 > 0:25:13I'm afraid I'm also out.
0:25:17 > 0:25:21Concerns over cash flow and Gousto's company structure
0:25:21 > 0:25:25have led to three Dragons turning down the offer to invest.
0:25:25 > 0:25:28Now, Peter Jones wants to find out if the deal struck
0:25:28 > 0:25:31with their angel investors leaves any room for manoeuvre.
0:25:33 > 0:25:34What happens if I get
0:25:34 > 0:25:37a really good negotiating position in the Den, here,
0:25:37 > 0:25:40and then when we walk out, the investors turn round and say,
0:25:40 > 0:25:43"That Peter Jones - you've given away all of that?
0:25:43 > 0:25:46- "I want the same deal."- Mm-hm. - What happens?
0:25:48 > 0:25:50Well, I guess, because...
0:25:50 > 0:25:53We have that deal on the table, we are...
0:25:53 > 0:25:54There's not much room for us
0:25:54 > 0:25:57to negotiate outside of that term sheet, because we wouldn't
0:25:57 > 0:25:59want to jeopardise the deal which we already have.
0:26:02 > 0:26:04Well, you've just made my decision then.
0:26:04 > 0:26:06Erm...
0:26:07 > 0:26:10Which is really, really disappointing...
0:26:14 > 0:26:18..because I think you've missed a trick by making that statement.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22Angel investors are a group of individuals that look
0:26:22 > 0:26:26at businesses and put money into it in the hope,
0:26:26 > 0:26:30in the whim of fancy, that maybe one day they'll make some money.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34I'd like to think of myself as very different.
0:26:34 > 0:26:37I'd like to think that I'm a very serious investor
0:26:37 > 0:26:39that gets involved in every business.
0:26:39 > 0:26:43I don't sit on the sidelines. I make a real difference in the company.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45Then you bring the marketing and PR,
0:26:45 > 0:26:47and bang - it doesn't get better than a Dragon.
0:26:47 > 0:26:50So, to tell me that I'm going to be at the same level
0:26:50 > 0:26:53as some very wealthy angel investor that, frankly,
0:26:53 > 0:26:56will play no part in your business...
0:26:56 > 0:26:57doesn't do it for me.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03Can we discuss quickly?
0:27:03 > 0:27:06You can go to the back, near the lift, and have a chat.
0:27:06 > 0:27:07- Yeah?- Can we discuss?
0:27:07 > 0:27:08TIMO: Mm-hm.
0:27:16 > 0:27:19THEY WHISPER
0:27:36 > 0:27:40Could we ask, if you would like to make an offer,
0:27:40 > 0:27:44what level would be satisfactory to you?
0:27:44 > 0:27:45Well, I'd like...
0:27:45 > 0:27:49You went to the back of the room to think about the dilemma
0:27:49 > 0:27:50that I gave you, which was,
0:27:50 > 0:27:54if I was to get an offer today that was a lot richer,
0:27:54 > 0:27:56in terms of equity, than the investment that you've been
0:27:56 > 0:28:01offered through this angel network, would the angel network walk away?
0:28:03 > 0:28:07We probably can't agree to a deal that is a lot richer.
0:28:12 > 0:28:17Guys, I think that what you've created is potentially great
0:28:17 > 0:28:21and I think you've been very open about your angel investment network
0:28:21 > 0:28:24and I think it would shut the door to future funding.
0:28:24 > 0:28:27So, I'm going to say, reluctantly, I'm out.
0:28:27 > 0:28:29- Mm-hm. OK, thanks. - Thank you.
0:28:32 > 0:28:35A perturbed Peter Jones walks away from the deal.
0:28:35 > 0:28:39It leaves Duncan Bannatyne as the last Dragon standing.
0:28:44 > 0:28:45I really love this.
0:28:46 > 0:28:48I think it's absolutely fantastic.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51I'm going to become a customer.
0:28:51 > 0:28:54- That's good. - I'm going to buy your products,
0:28:54 > 0:28:58and when I go in the summer with my lad
0:28:58 > 0:28:59to my cabin in Lake Windermere,
0:28:59 > 0:29:02I'm going to have your boxes delivered
0:29:02 > 0:29:04- and we're going to sit and cook together.- Mm-hm.
0:29:04 > 0:29:07And it's going to be fantastic. I love it. It's fantastic.
0:29:10 > 0:29:14Unfortunately, I don't think you'll ever make any money.
0:29:14 > 0:29:17I can't see it ever coming into profit.
0:29:17 > 0:29:20So for that reason I've got to say, I'm sorry, but I'm out.
0:29:20 > 0:29:22OK. Thanks.
0:29:25 > 0:29:27Despite the Dragons' enthusiasm for Gousto,
0:29:27 > 0:29:31a combination of their monthly losses and a rigid arrangement with
0:29:31 > 0:29:35other investors means that Timo and James walk away with nothing.
0:29:39 > 0:29:41I think we're just too...
0:29:44 > 0:29:46..hamstrung by what we've already negotiated.
0:29:46 > 0:29:48Mm.
0:29:56 > 0:29:58It's been a trying...
0:29:58 > 0:30:02- Mm!- ..and frustrating day for the Dragons so far.
0:30:02 > 0:30:05I've got to be honest, I hate what you've got.
0:30:05 > 0:30:07No investments have been made in the Den today.
0:30:07 > 0:30:08I'm out.
0:30:08 > 0:30:11But two more pitches remain.
0:30:11 > 0:30:13Is there much wiggle-room in that?
0:30:13 > 0:30:14No.
0:30:14 > 0:30:18Will these hopefuls succeed where others have failed?
0:30:18 > 0:30:23- You have no idea how close he is to getting money out of me.- OK.
0:30:30 > 0:30:32The games industry is booming.
0:30:32 > 0:30:34But, despite a wealth of new technology,
0:30:34 > 0:30:39the humble board game still holds its own in a crowded market.
0:30:41 > 0:30:45This trio, who met while working at an advertising agency,
0:30:45 > 0:30:46have come up with a new game
0:30:46 > 0:30:50that they hope will be the next big thing this Christmas.
0:30:50 > 0:30:53Let's see if it will be snakes or ladders for the admen.
0:31:03 > 0:31:04Hello, Dragons.
0:31:04 > 0:31:07- My name's Dean, and this is Tris and Ben.- Hi.
0:31:07 > 0:31:10And we're here today to ask for £50,000 for 10% equity
0:31:10 > 0:31:13in our game company, Linkee Limited.
0:31:13 > 0:31:16Now, you know with board games sometimes they come in big, massive
0:31:16 > 0:31:18boxes with loads of fiddly bits, they have long,
0:31:18 > 0:31:21complicated rules that go on for ever,
0:31:21 > 0:31:23you find yourself waiting ages for your turn?
0:31:23 > 0:31:25Well, we've come up with a way to get round all that
0:31:25 > 0:31:28with our super-simple, shouty-outy family quiz game
0:31:28 > 0:31:32that went down an absolute storm when we launched last year.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35Yeah, it really has been an incredible six months since we launched.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38We sold 2,000 games before Christmas,
0:31:38 > 0:31:41we've had phenomenal feedback from retailers and customers.
0:31:41 > 0:31:44We've partnered with a TV production company
0:31:44 > 0:31:46to create a TV version of the game,
0:31:46 > 0:31:48and we're working with an app developer
0:31:48 > 0:31:50to create a mobile version of the game, too.
0:31:50 > 0:31:52We've been up to all sorts, we'd love to tell you about it all,
0:31:52 > 0:31:54but the best way to really understand why
0:31:54 > 0:31:58we think this is a really special game is to play it. Ben.
0:31:58 > 0:32:01OK, Dragons, here's how it works.
0:32:01 > 0:32:04On this giant card, there are four questions
0:32:04 > 0:32:06and the aim of the game is to guess the common link
0:32:06 > 0:32:08between the four answers.
0:32:08 > 0:32:10So, I'll give you an example.
0:32:10 > 0:32:13If the answers were John, Paul, George and Ringo,
0:32:13 > 0:32:15the link would be The Beatles.
0:32:15 > 0:32:17So, let's give this one a go.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21You can just shout out at any time, it's a bit of a free-for-all.
0:32:21 > 0:32:23I can see you're keen.
0:32:23 > 0:32:24OK, so question one -
0:32:24 > 0:32:28Emperor and King are types of what flightless bird?
0:32:28 > 0:32:31- Penguin.- Penguin. - Yep. Off to a flying start.
0:32:31 > 0:32:33Question two...
0:32:33 > 0:32:35Books. Books?
0:32:35 > 0:32:38- Ooh, close!- Do I have to go back to the beginning now?
0:32:38 > 0:32:40SHE LAUGHS
0:32:40 > 0:32:42I'll keep going, you're very keen.
0:32:42 > 0:32:43Question two...
0:32:43 > 0:32:45Club and Rocky.
0:32:45 > 0:32:47Yeah, and the link is...?
0:32:47 > 0:32:49I've no idea.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52So, we've got penguin, we've got taxi.
0:32:52 > 0:32:55Question three - what type of sandwich is typically made
0:32:55 > 0:32:56with three layers of bread?
0:32:56 > 0:32:58- BLT.- Club.
0:32:58 > 0:32:59So, penguin, taxi and club.
0:32:59 > 0:33:01Can you see a link?
0:33:01 > 0:33:03- No.- And Rocky... - Penguin, taxi and club...
0:33:03 > 0:33:05- Very nice with a cup of tea. - Biscuit.
0:33:05 > 0:33:06- Oh, penguin biscuits!- Yes!
0:33:06 > 0:33:09That was a really good guess. I think Duncan had it.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12That really is the game. That's how simple it is.
0:33:12 > 0:33:14It takes two minutes to learn, 30 minutes to play,
0:33:14 > 0:33:16it's got something which we call "anti-genius",
0:33:16 > 0:33:19which means you don't have to know everything on the card or be
0:33:19 > 0:33:22the smartest person in the room, so it's very, very inclusive.
0:33:22 > 0:33:25Dragons, we're really proud of what we've achieved in just six months,
0:33:25 > 0:33:28with not a whole lot of dosh, and we really think that with your
0:33:28 > 0:33:32backing and support we can help Linkee to realise its full potential.
0:33:32 > 0:33:35Thank you for your time. Thank you for playing along.
0:33:35 > 0:33:37I'll give you a copy of the game to look at,
0:33:37 > 0:33:39then we'll be happy to answer any questions.
0:33:40 > 0:33:44A stand-out performance from the three entrepreneurs
0:33:44 > 0:33:46whose experience in advertising
0:33:46 > 0:33:49has helped them deliver a finely-tuned pitch.
0:33:49 > 0:33:51They're looking for £50,000
0:33:51 > 0:33:54for a 10% stake in their Linkee board game.
0:33:55 > 0:33:58Kelly Hoppen is the first to take a turn.
0:34:00 > 0:34:03You're a great salesman, cos I actually hate board games
0:34:03 > 0:34:06but I'd quite like to play another card!
0:34:06 > 0:34:07Where's the board?
0:34:07 > 0:34:11- There is no board. - I'm being picky because we're calling it a board game.
0:34:11 > 0:34:14- But it's a quiz.- Yeah, we started off with all those and just thought
0:34:14 > 0:34:16we can get rid of all those bits and bobs.
0:34:16 > 0:34:18BEN: The thing that people love is
0:34:18 > 0:34:21that "eureka" moment, when they're answering the four questions and they go,
0:34:21 > 0:34:23"Oh, yeah, I've got the link."
0:34:23 > 0:34:25We don't really need anything more than that
0:34:25 > 0:34:27because that's the sort of the kernel,
0:34:27 > 0:34:30the heart of the idea that people really like.
0:34:30 > 0:34:33And what's the TV thing that you talked about?
0:34:33 > 0:34:38It, kind of, just happened that a TV producer came across Linkee
0:34:38 > 0:34:39and approached us, and said,
0:34:39 > 0:34:42"Have you thought about turning this into a TV Show?"
0:34:42 > 0:34:43And we were like, we kind of had
0:34:43 > 0:34:47but it was very early days to be thinking as far ahead as that.
0:34:47 > 0:34:49And how far down the line...?
0:34:49 > 0:34:52Have they said they've got it produced, or...?
0:34:52 > 0:34:54At the moment, we're just approaching the broadcaster.
0:34:54 > 0:34:56Yeah, we've got the treatment written up,
0:34:56 > 0:35:00we're approaching broadcasters and that's where we are at the moment.
0:35:00 > 0:35:02It's all gone a bit bonkers in the last few months.
0:35:05 > 0:35:08Tris, Dean and Ben have thrown a six.
0:35:08 > 0:35:12Kelly Hoppen certainly seems to have changed her view of board games.
0:35:12 > 0:35:16But can the London-based entrepreneurs convince another key player?
0:35:18 > 0:35:20You've described, in your opening pitch,
0:35:20 > 0:35:22something that sounded amazing.
0:35:22 > 0:35:25You've thought of a product, everybody wants it,
0:35:25 > 0:35:27you've sold thousands,
0:35:27 > 0:35:30you've now even got a television production company working up the title.
0:35:30 > 0:35:33And you made me feel, for the first time,
0:35:33 > 0:35:35that I needed to come up with something like,
0:35:35 > 0:35:39"Hi, I'm Peter Jones, please take my £50,000."
0:35:40 > 0:35:41Is that a good thing?
0:35:41 > 0:35:45Well, I don't know, because you made it sound fantastic,
0:35:45 > 0:35:51which made me feel that you've really, really oversold it.
0:35:51 > 0:35:53And I can put a finger in the air and say,
0:35:53 > 0:35:57I almost guarantee that you haven't even made £10,000.
0:35:58 > 0:35:59THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER
0:35:59 > 0:36:01Take us through the numbers.
0:36:01 > 0:36:05Sales so far, to date, was 2,000. What's the revenue?
0:36:05 > 0:36:07The revenue on that was £32,000.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09- 32,000?- Yep. - And what was the profit?
0:36:09 > 0:36:12The gross profit was £13,000.
0:36:12 > 0:36:16- 13,000 gross profit? - Yep. With £6,000 on that.
0:36:16 > 0:36:17- So, I'm right?- Yeah.
0:36:19 > 0:36:21You are right.
0:36:21 > 0:36:22We were stood in the lift just there,
0:36:22 > 0:36:26and we only got the product six months ago from the printers
0:36:26 > 0:36:27and we were stood there going,
0:36:27 > 0:36:30"Wow." A lot of things have happened very quickly.
0:36:30 > 0:36:33It's surprised us, actually.
0:36:33 > 0:36:37We've been bowled over by how quickly things have come along.
0:36:37 > 0:36:39I'd rather be bowled over with...
0:36:39 > 0:36:41the profits you were making.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44- Yeah.- But there isn't any, is there?
0:36:44 > 0:36:45That's the problem.
0:36:46 > 0:36:49What's your turnover, so far, this year?
0:36:49 > 0:36:52Erm, it's about £2,500.
0:36:54 > 0:36:58The entrepreneurs are finding it difficult to convert the froth
0:36:58 > 0:37:02of a great pitch into the hard numbers that impress the Dragons.
0:37:03 > 0:37:07And Peter Jones has something to reveal in his business history
0:37:07 > 0:37:09that could mean it's game over for him.
0:37:11 > 0:37:14I brought out a board game called Big Business two years ago
0:37:14 > 0:37:18and we sold 15,000 in ten days.
0:37:18 > 0:37:20I would say that was very successful, wouldn't you?
0:37:20 > 0:37:21Yeah. Definitely.
0:37:21 > 0:37:25Well, if I tell you that we didn't make any money...
0:37:25 > 0:37:28This is very, very tough, this area.
0:37:28 > 0:37:30And the TV one is...
0:37:30 > 0:37:33You are delusional if you think this will go on to a television element,
0:37:33 > 0:37:37cos the reality is, it's not just tough,
0:37:37 > 0:37:40it's got to be really, really something special.
0:37:40 > 0:37:42And even Paul Smith spent many, many years
0:37:42 > 0:37:44trying to get Who Wants To Be A Millionaire away.
0:37:44 > 0:37:47And he had a cracking concept, everybody was talking about it
0:37:47 > 0:37:49and he still couldn't get it commissioned.
0:37:49 > 0:37:53This is not an investment for a Dragon,
0:37:53 > 0:37:54let alone this one sitting here.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57So, I'm going to say, I'm out.
0:37:59 > 0:38:01A blow for the admen.
0:38:01 > 0:38:06And Peter Jones's exit from the deal has unnerved Kelly Hoppen.
0:38:06 > 0:38:09Guys, sitting here and listening to Peter,
0:38:09 > 0:38:12he obviously came up with a great idea but it didn't make money.
0:38:12 > 0:38:15I'm not somebody that knows an awful lot about board games
0:38:15 > 0:38:18but I get what you're saying about people wanting something
0:38:18 > 0:38:21that's tangible, sitting, you know, I've got kids.
0:38:21 > 0:38:23But I just... It's not something that I would invest in,
0:38:23 > 0:38:25even though I really want to.
0:38:25 > 0:38:28I'm sitting here thinking, "Come on, Kelly. Come on, do it."
0:38:28 > 0:38:30I'm sorry, I'm out.
0:38:30 > 0:38:32- Thank you. - Thank you.
0:38:33 > 0:38:35Dean, um...
0:38:35 > 0:38:40To me, in terms of investing, especially 50k for 10% -
0:38:40 > 0:38:42that's a valuation of half a million.
0:38:42 > 0:38:46You've got to sell this business for two and half million to five million
0:38:46 > 0:38:50to make the kind of return you'd be looking for, as a Dragon.
0:38:50 > 0:38:52And I just can't see it happening.
0:38:52 > 0:38:56You've heard from Peter who's been in this game and, you know,
0:38:56 > 0:38:58he didn't make a huge amount of money.
0:38:58 > 0:38:59So, you have to listen to that.
0:38:59 > 0:39:03For those reasons, I'm afraid, great to meet you guys, but I'm out.
0:39:04 > 0:39:06Guys, let me tell you where I am.
0:39:06 > 0:39:11This is an area that I actually generally choose not to invest in,
0:39:11 > 0:39:13because it is tough.
0:39:13 > 0:39:16And even businesses that are out there saying they have done
0:39:16 > 0:39:20brilliantly, you look at their accounts, they haven't made money.
0:39:20 > 0:39:24So, I'm really sorry, guys, but I won't be investing and I'm out.
0:39:26 > 0:39:27The dominoes are falling.
0:39:27 > 0:39:31Four Dragons are out, leaving just one remaining,
0:39:31 > 0:39:36Duncan Bannatyne, who was sceptical of Linkee's profits.
0:39:36 > 0:39:39So, is he ready to roll the dice?
0:39:39 > 0:39:40It's very tempting.
0:39:43 > 0:39:46But...the big killer's the price.
0:39:49 > 0:39:50Our price?
0:39:51 > 0:39:52Yeah.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56£50,000 for 10%.
0:39:57 > 0:40:00I wouldn't give you £50,000 for 10%.
0:40:03 > 0:40:06So, what's your best price?
0:40:06 > 0:40:08Best percentage?
0:40:10 > 0:40:11What...
0:40:11 > 0:40:14What's the best deal you can offer me?
0:40:20 > 0:40:23I think 15%. That would be the top.
0:40:26 > 0:40:27I was thinking 40.
0:40:27 > 0:40:30DEAN CHUCKLES
0:40:30 > 0:40:3140%?
0:40:33 > 0:40:36Is there much wiggle-room in that, or is that..?
0:40:37 > 0:40:40- No.- No wiggle-room?- No wiggle-room.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42£50,000 - 40%.
0:40:43 > 0:40:47- That's... That's a lot, lot more than we thought.- Sure.
0:40:47 > 0:40:50- Am I sure that I don't want to do that?- Mm.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53Guys? I'm pretty sure.
0:40:53 > 0:40:58I think so, yeah. Do you think that's fair, 40%?
0:40:58 > 0:40:59Yeah.
0:40:59 > 0:41:00I could lose my money.
0:41:00 > 0:41:02Very easily.
0:41:02 > 0:41:03It might not sell.
0:41:05 > 0:41:09- It is selling, though. It's popular. - It's not selling in big quantities.
0:41:09 > 0:41:11People are getting excited about it.
0:41:13 > 0:41:15How could you help us accelerate our growth?
0:41:17 > 0:41:20Rather than just the cash that we obviously need to...
0:41:21 > 0:41:24- Yeah, I'm not convinced I could.- OK.
0:41:24 > 0:41:27You said you need the money, I've offered you the money -
0:41:27 > 0:41:29£50,000 for 40%.
0:41:31 > 0:41:33OK.
0:41:33 > 0:41:35Erm, guys, I think I speak for all of us,
0:41:35 > 0:41:37I'm afraid we won't accept that offer.
0:41:37 > 0:41:42OK. Well, I wish you the best of luck.
0:41:42 > 0:41:46- I hope you do well with it, but I'm out.- Thank you.- Good luck.
0:41:49 > 0:41:53So, it's no deal for the ad men. Or are they mad men,
0:41:53 > 0:41:56as they reject an offer of investment from Duncan Bannatyne?
0:42:00 > 0:42:04- I really, really wanted to invest in them.- Yeah.- Am I missing something?
0:42:04 > 0:42:06It was a fair offer, wasn't it?
0:42:06 > 0:42:08I think it was a clever offer.
0:42:08 > 0:42:10They would never have taken it.
0:42:14 > 0:42:18The point, perhaps, where the pitch didn't go quite how we wanted
0:42:18 > 0:42:22was when Peter was talking about the fact that his own personal
0:42:22 > 0:42:26experience of board games didn't go quite as well as he wanted it to.
0:42:26 > 0:42:27So...
0:42:27 > 0:42:29His board game couldn't have been that good.
0:42:29 > 0:42:31If it was that good, why isn't it still on sale?
0:42:35 > 0:42:38Many entrepreneurs enter the Den putting an ambitious
0:42:38 > 0:42:41valuation on their company.
0:42:41 > 0:42:43But this can be a high-risk strategy -
0:42:45 > 0:42:48whether it's an innovative alternative to paper...
0:42:48 > 0:42:53I'm here to raise £200,000 for 10% share of my company.
0:42:53 > 0:42:56This paper is made from stone
0:42:56 > 0:43:00and the entire production takes 50% less energy...
0:43:00 > 0:43:04And, above all, this paper is waterproof.
0:43:07 > 0:43:10..or a cuddly toy for a child's scooter.
0:43:10 > 0:43:13I knocked up the first Hobby Headz on my sewing machine.
0:43:13 > 0:43:17I realised that I'd come up with quite a magical product which
0:43:17 > 0:43:19I could turn into a business venture.
0:43:19 > 0:43:24I'm looking for £100,000 worth of investment for a 10% stake
0:43:24 > 0:43:26in my business.
0:43:28 > 0:43:31With high valuations for fledgling companies,
0:43:31 > 0:43:35the Dragons can't help but pile on the pressure.
0:43:35 > 0:43:36Why do you need £200,000?
0:43:36 > 0:43:39First of all, I need to buy more stock.
0:43:39 > 0:43:40Have you got orders, then?
0:43:40 > 0:43:42No, it's up-and-coming.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45- How much are you turning over at the moment?- Uh...
0:43:45 > 0:43:48Not much, we just really started trading.
0:43:48 > 0:43:50Why do you have to buy stock when you don't know what stock you need?
0:43:50 > 0:43:52How much have you spent so far?
0:43:52 > 0:43:54We've spent about £200,000.
0:43:54 > 0:43:57- What?!- Yes. Yes, we have.
0:43:57 > 0:43:59You've spent £200,000 on this?
0:43:59 > 0:44:01You should have had a lot of orders
0:44:01 > 0:44:03if this is something that somebody wanted to buy.
0:44:03 > 0:44:05And trial and error with your own money's one thing,
0:44:05 > 0:44:08but with mine, it's slightly worrying.
0:44:10 > 0:44:12And when it comes to confrontation with the Dragons,
0:44:12 > 0:44:15a high figure can provoke their fury.
0:44:15 > 0:44:18- So, it's just a toy? - It's just a toy.
0:44:18 > 0:44:20- It's just THAT you value at £1 million?- Yeah.
0:44:20 > 0:44:23Over the last six months, I've had a lot of interest
0:44:23 > 0:44:26and I've already garnered an agreement
0:44:26 > 0:44:28with a multinational supermarket.
0:44:28 > 0:44:31When you come in with such a racy valuation,
0:44:31 > 0:44:34you immediately get my heckles up.
0:44:34 > 0:44:36I don't want to get annoyed, but I'm already...inside.
0:44:36 > 0:44:40Honestly, there's boiling point.
0:44:40 > 0:44:42I am looking for someone that will invest,
0:44:42 > 0:44:47recognising the potential of this venture.
0:44:47 > 0:44:48The valuation is off the charts.
0:44:48 > 0:44:51At no level of equity can I make you an offer.
0:44:51 > 0:44:54- I'm out.- I'm out.- Thank you.
0:44:54 > 0:44:58And once you've lost the Dragons' respect, it's gone for good.
0:44:58 > 0:45:00There's some naivety there that makes you,
0:45:00 > 0:45:03sort of, not as credible as you might think you are.
0:45:03 > 0:45:07The valuation's wrong, so for that reason, I'm afraid I'm out.
0:45:18 > 0:45:20Now, the British population is ageing and, sadly,
0:45:20 > 0:45:23this means that cases of dementia are on the rise.
0:45:23 > 0:45:27800,000 people are suffering from the condition in Britain.
0:45:27 > 0:45:29So, it's encouraging to see entrepreneurs
0:45:29 > 0:45:32putting their minds to the challenges this creates.
0:45:32 > 0:45:35A good example is Richard Ernest, who's next into the Den.
0:45:58 > 0:46:00Hello. My name's Richard
0:46:00 > 0:46:04and I'm here today to talk about my company, called RemPods.
0:46:04 > 0:46:11I'm looking for an investment of 100K for an equity of 25%.
0:46:11 > 0:46:13My company create products for people with dementia.
0:46:13 > 0:46:16Our main product is our product here,
0:46:16 > 0:46:20which is basically called a pop-up reminiscence pod.
0:46:20 > 0:46:23So, we sell a complete package like this to the NHS
0:46:23 > 0:46:26and to care homes across the UK.
0:46:26 > 0:46:31People with dementia, their short-term memory goes very quickly,
0:46:31 > 0:46:34so they are, kind of, left with their long-term memories.
0:46:34 > 0:46:38So, what I created was a safe haven -
0:46:38 > 0:46:43a place for people to come and just reminisce.
0:46:43 > 0:46:49I've been going for two years now, I'm in 30 NHS trusts and also sell to
0:46:49 > 0:46:56the Alzheimer's Society, to care homes and charities across the UK.
0:46:56 > 0:47:00Any feedback and questions would be great. Thanks for listening.
0:47:02 > 0:47:06A short, and nervous, pitch by Richard Ernest,
0:47:06 > 0:47:08who's looking for £100,000,
0:47:08 > 0:47:11for a 25% stake in his dementia therapy business.
0:47:13 > 0:47:17Piers Linney is the first to question the reminiscence man.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20- Richard, hi. I'm Piers. - Hello, Piers.
0:47:20 > 0:47:22What's the science behind this?
0:47:22 > 0:47:25Is this based on you noticing people wanted this
0:47:25 > 0:47:27or is there some science behind it?
0:47:27 > 0:47:31Do you know, I mean, the power of reminiscence has been around for 20 years.
0:47:31 > 0:47:33It's not a new concept, so...
0:47:33 > 0:47:36We had a gentleman in an NHS hospital in Bristol
0:47:36 > 0:47:40and every evening, that guy would be going crazy with his hands
0:47:40 > 0:47:43and no-one knew why.
0:47:43 > 0:47:45And all they would do is just give him anti-psychotic drugs.
0:47:45 > 0:47:49He worked in the pod, and they just kind of spoke to him,
0:47:49 > 0:47:50using it as a form of therapy,
0:47:50 > 0:47:53and they realised he used to own a shop,
0:47:53 > 0:47:56so at five o'clock every day he was counting his money.
0:47:56 > 0:47:58So then, they gave him Monopoly money
0:47:58 > 0:48:02and it was a way of not having to give him anti-psychotic drugs.
0:48:02 > 0:48:06So, I'm saving the NHS tons of money on anti-psychotic drugs...
0:48:06 > 0:48:09How can you prove you're saving the NHS money on anti-psychotic drugs?
0:48:09 > 0:48:11Can you show me the evidence?
0:48:11 > 0:48:15Well, I can't today, but no-one would order from me if it didn't work.
0:48:15 > 0:48:18Yeah, but because it works and calms a patient down
0:48:18 > 0:48:21and gives a patient a bit of a better life doesn't mean they're
0:48:21 > 0:48:24saving thousands and thousands of pounds on anti-psychotic drugs.
0:48:24 > 0:48:26- That's a bit different. - Well, it saves more money than...
0:48:26 > 0:48:30- Until you said that, I was 100% behind you.- OK.
0:48:30 > 0:48:31- I just don't believe that.- OK.
0:48:34 > 0:48:37Richard has failed to convince Duncan Bannatyne
0:48:37 > 0:48:39about the potential of this pod
0:48:39 > 0:48:44to help reduce the amount the NHS spends on treating patients with dementia.
0:48:44 > 0:48:48And now Piers Linney has concerns about the entrepreneur's credibility.
0:48:51 > 0:48:56You can't quite cross that line between - is this a nice-to-have
0:48:56 > 0:49:01or is it a real medical return-on-investment for the NHS?
0:49:01 > 0:49:03It's a bit airy-fairy to me.
0:49:03 > 0:49:05And you are a bit, to be honest with you.
0:49:05 > 0:49:08I want you to cross that line from where you are to hard facts.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11To have any chance of getting any money out of anybody here, in my view.
0:49:11 > 0:49:18- You have no idea how close he is to getting money out of me.- OK.
0:49:19 > 0:49:22Erm, all of the conversations that you've put across -
0:49:22 > 0:49:25and I'm sitting here intently listening to you -
0:49:25 > 0:49:30I'm only thinking philanthropically, in a social-enterprise way.
0:49:30 > 0:49:34And I think there's a really, really fine line
0:49:34 > 0:49:38between commercially making a lot of money out of it,
0:49:38 > 0:49:42or whether there's something more important you've got here
0:49:42 > 0:49:44about making people's lives better,
0:49:44 > 0:49:46and, therefore, would make me feel
0:49:46 > 0:49:50very uncomfortable about you wanting to become a millionaire
0:49:50 > 0:49:52on the back of doing this.
0:49:52 > 0:49:54I don't want to come across that I'm on a crusade,
0:49:54 > 0:49:57because I want to make money. I want to have...
0:49:57 > 0:50:01Well, that's what my next question is - what does Richard want?
0:50:01 > 0:50:02I... I want to make money.
0:50:05 > 0:50:09It's certainly a clear response from the Gloucestershire-based entrepreneur.
0:50:09 > 0:50:13Will it be enough to convince a sceptical Duncan Bannatyne?
0:50:17 > 0:50:19I don't think it's worth £100,000.
0:50:19 > 0:50:22Even if I was to offer you £100,000 for 100%.
0:50:22 > 0:50:26It has a value, but it's not a business.
0:50:26 > 0:50:28And so for that reason, I've got to say, I'm sorry, but I'm out.
0:50:37 > 0:50:41Richard, I'm really struggling with this, because I love the idea.
0:50:41 > 0:50:46Erm, and I'm not quite sure why I'm struggling with it.
0:50:46 > 0:50:48I keep going backwards and forwards.
0:50:50 > 0:50:52Yeah, no, I'm sorry, but I'm out.
0:50:52 > 0:50:55It's not something I want to invest in but I really wish you luck.
0:50:55 > 0:50:57Oh, thank you. Thank you.
0:51:05 > 0:51:07I know maybe I've come across airy-fairy,
0:51:07 > 0:51:10but I set this up in my first year
0:51:10 > 0:51:12and I've worked really hard.
0:51:12 > 0:51:14It's taken me a long time to realise that, if you work hard,
0:51:14 > 0:51:18you can get anything, and I won't finish with this.
0:51:18 > 0:51:19I believe in this.
0:51:19 > 0:51:22And I will take this to the next level, you know.
0:51:26 > 0:51:28A desperate appeal from the heart.
0:51:30 > 0:51:33But will it wash with any of the remaining Dragons?
0:51:36 > 0:51:41I haven't really found anything in your story
0:51:41 > 0:51:43that's told me that the experts have thought,
0:51:43 > 0:51:46"Oh, we've got something here."
0:51:47 > 0:51:51The biggest issue I have, is that you and I
0:51:51 > 0:51:54have a very different value placed on your current business,
0:51:54 > 0:51:57as it is at the moment.
0:52:02 > 0:52:03But...
0:52:05 > 0:52:07- I am going to make you an offer.- OK.
0:52:07 > 0:52:10And I'm going to offer you all of the money...
0:52:12 > 0:52:15..and I want 45% of business.
0:52:19 > 0:52:23Against the run of play and with no interrogation of his figures,
0:52:23 > 0:52:25Deborah Meaden's surprising offer
0:52:25 > 0:52:28puts the remaining Dragons on the back foot.
0:52:28 > 0:52:32But Peter Jones is still wrestling with a moral dilemma.
0:52:35 > 0:52:37I'd... I'm happy to say where I am.
0:52:37 > 0:52:39I... I'm... I am struggling.
0:52:41 > 0:52:44And I am up and down about this point.
0:52:44 > 0:52:48I don't know. I don't think I'd feel overly comfortable
0:52:48 > 0:52:50about making huge profits
0:52:50 > 0:52:54off the back of helping people with dementia.
0:52:54 > 0:52:58I wouldn't want that to buy you a nice house and me another car.
0:52:58 > 0:53:00Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't be going crazy.
0:53:02 > 0:53:05OK. Well, I've... I think you know where I am.
0:53:05 > 0:53:08I've made my mind up, erm,
0:53:08 > 0:53:10and I'm going to make you an offer.
0:53:10 > 0:53:11Oh. OK.
0:53:14 > 0:53:17But my offer is subject to...
0:53:19 > 0:53:22..this business giving up to 10% of its profits
0:53:22 > 0:53:24back to charity.
0:53:24 > 0:53:25On an annual basis.
0:53:25 > 0:53:27Forever.
0:53:27 > 0:53:30And I will offer you £100,000...
0:53:33 > 0:53:35..and I would want...
0:53:35 > 0:53:3735%.
0:53:39 > 0:53:41An unusual offer from Peter Jones
0:53:41 > 0:53:45who wants philanthropy to go hand-in-hand with profits.
0:53:46 > 0:53:49Now, it's left to Piers Linney to decide.
0:53:51 > 0:53:54I don't have that problem. I think you can create a very successful business
0:53:54 > 0:53:57that makes money, improves the lives of particular patients,
0:53:57 > 0:54:00reduces the costs of the drugs in the NHS, that has the social impact.
0:54:00 > 0:54:03So, I haven't got a problem with that, personally.
0:54:03 > 0:54:05Why don't you make a better offer, then?
0:54:05 > 0:54:07The issue is, I don't think I can.
0:54:10 > 0:54:14- Chicken. - DUNCAN BANNATYNE:- Are you out, then?
0:54:14 > 0:54:16No, I'm thinking about it.
0:54:17 > 0:54:20So, you either need to make an offer or you need to go out.
0:54:25 > 0:54:26Yeah, I'm out.
0:54:26 > 0:54:28OK, thank you. Thank you.
0:54:31 > 0:54:32With two offers on the table,
0:54:32 > 0:54:36a now more confident Richard wants to negotiate with Deborah Meaden.
0:54:41 > 0:54:43Would there be any leeway,
0:54:43 > 0:54:46or maybe if we reached targets you could go down to 40%
0:54:46 > 0:54:48after a certain time, or...?
0:54:48 > 0:54:49Erm...
0:54:49 > 0:54:53We didn't go forward on your business forecast, did we?
0:54:53 > 0:54:54Yeah, so this year,
0:54:54 > 0:54:58I'm hoping to do 660,000 turnover
0:54:58 > 0:55:00of a net profit of 237.
0:55:00 > 0:55:02And the year after?
0:55:02 > 0:55:04The year after, I'm hoping to get up to a million,
0:55:04 > 0:55:07with a net profit of about 600K, I think.
0:55:07 > 0:55:10And then, the year after that, about 2.3 million,
0:55:10 > 0:55:16with a net profit of just under a million, so about 950K.
0:55:16 > 0:55:19And you're saying, at the end of that period,
0:55:19 > 0:55:24if you hit those targets, would I hand back 5%?
0:55:24 > 0:55:26- Yep.- You would. OK.
0:55:26 > 0:55:30- COUGHING - I'm choking!
0:55:30 > 0:55:33I'm only choking because you never mentioned you were going to make
0:55:33 > 0:55:35nearly a £1 million profit in year five.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38I wouldn't have mentioned charity if you'd told me that at the start!
0:55:38 > 0:55:39LAUGH UPROARIOUSLY
0:55:39 > 0:55:41"Can we start again, please?"
0:55:41 > 0:55:43PETER COUGHING THE OTHERS LAUGHING
0:55:43 > 0:55:45You've really killed me now!
0:55:45 > 0:55:47THEY LAUGH
0:55:47 > 0:55:49You were talking about making 20, 30K!
0:55:49 > 0:55:51Oh, dear me. Oh, that's funny.
0:55:51 > 0:55:54Is there... I suppose it's confusing.
0:55:54 > 0:55:58There's no way of you two coming together?
0:55:58 > 0:56:00To be honest with you, Peter, I would love to work with Peter,
0:56:00 > 0:56:04but I guess my issue with it is if I want the cash to go to the charity.
0:56:04 > 0:56:07We, anyway, could agree, couldn't we?
0:56:07 > 0:56:08- Are you happy with that?- Yeah, I am.
0:56:08 > 0:56:10OK, yeah. I'll accept, yeah.
0:56:10 > 0:56:13- Oh, excellent!- You're accepting our joint offers.- Yeah, yeah.
0:56:13 > 0:56:17- It'd be great, yeah.- Great! - Excellent! We have a deal!
0:56:17 > 0:56:19- Well done!- You are very sweaty.
0:56:19 > 0:56:21THEY LAUGH
0:56:21 > 0:56:24Richard Ernest accepted an offer of £50,000
0:56:24 > 0:56:27from both Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden
0:56:27 > 0:56:28for a 22.5% stake each,
0:56:28 > 0:56:31with an incentive to claw back equity
0:56:31 > 0:56:33if he hits his profit targets.
0:56:33 > 0:56:34See you later. Thank you, bye.
0:56:36 > 0:56:38- PETER:- You can be a bit more excited.
0:56:40 > 0:56:42THEY LAUGH
0:56:42 > 0:56:45He's also committed to donating money to charity.
0:56:47 > 0:56:49I was really pleased that you went in at 45%.
0:56:49 > 0:56:52That was a good piece of negotiation.
0:56:54 > 0:56:55I left school with nothing.
0:56:55 > 0:56:58So, at the age of 20, I didn't even know the ABC.
0:56:58 > 0:57:01So, I've had a life of always trying to prove people wrong.
0:57:01 > 0:57:03I've never felt good enough.
0:57:03 > 0:57:07And I just feel this is, kind of... It hasn't sunk in.
0:57:07 > 0:57:09But it's, kind of, I've finally done it.
0:57:09 > 0:57:11And I feel this is going to secure my future.
0:57:20 > 0:57:25So, after a day of curious business ideas, eclectic entrepreneurs,
0:57:25 > 0:57:27and one near miss,
0:57:27 > 0:57:29finally, an investment from the Dragons.
0:57:29 > 0:57:33And for a delighted Richard Ernest with his novel remembrance pods,
0:57:33 > 0:57:36relief and hope for the future.
0:57:36 > 0:57:39If you want to join in the conversation about tonight's pitches,
0:57:39 > 0:57:42you can do so on Twitter...
0:57:45 > 0:57:49Next week in the Den...
0:57:49 > 0:57:51Your attitude is so unengaging.
0:57:51 > 0:57:55It's not only the product, but it's about the person.
0:57:55 > 0:57:58Whatever you've invented here isn't a business.
0:57:58 > 0:58:01I'm looking to invest, not generate a legacy
0:58:01 > 0:58:02for those that come after me.
0:58:02 > 0:58:05I'm not convinced you need anybody's help.
0:58:05 > 0:58:07I think we do!
0:58:07 > 0:58:09I'm losing the will to live.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12- Me, too.- It's not so bad!
0:58:12 > 0:58:15How would we work together?
0:58:15 > 0:58:17We would kill each other.
0:58:20 > 0:58:23Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd