0:00:27 > 0:00:29These are the Dragons.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32Wealthy, well-connected...
0:00:33 > 0:00:34..innovative...
0:00:34 > 0:00:36and influential.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Each week, they make or break the dreams
0:00:39 > 0:00:41of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:43 > 0:00:45I think we've got something special.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48Whatever you've invented here isn't a business.
0:00:49 > 0:00:52Your attitude is so unengaging.
0:00:52 > 0:00:55It's not only the product, but it's about the person.
0:00:55 > 0:00:58It's like entering the world of business Narnia.
0:00:58 > 0:01:00I'm losing the will to live.
0:01:00 > 0:01:02How would we work together?
0:01:02 > 0:01:04We would kill each other.
0:01:04 > 0:01:08Resistance from the industry means your product doesn't work.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16Leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden...
0:01:18 > 0:01:20..telecoms giant Peter Jones...
0:01:21 > 0:01:24..and hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne
0:01:24 > 0:01:26have between them struck deals
0:01:26 > 0:01:29worth more than £7 million in the Den.
0:01:32 > 0:01:34But ready to fight for the next shrewd investment
0:01:34 > 0:01:39is the creator of her own world-renowned interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen,
0:01:39 > 0:01:43and cloud computing pioneer Piers Linney.
0:01:46 > 0:01:49The multi-millionaires will give each entrepreneur
0:01:49 > 0:01:51just three minutes to pitch their idea
0:01:51 > 0:01:54and then interrogate them on every aspect of their business.
0:01:55 > 0:01:57To face them takes nerve and vision.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00So who will leave with the Dragons' money?
0:02:08 > 0:02:10Welcome to Dragons' Den.
0:02:10 > 0:02:14The financial climate remains uncertain, but here in the Den,
0:02:14 > 0:02:16five of Britain's sharpest business brains
0:02:16 > 0:02:19are still ready and willing to plough their personal cash
0:02:19 > 0:02:22into the right business idea.
0:02:23 > 0:02:27And our first entrepreneurial duo to make a pitch today
0:02:27 > 0:02:29think they've devised an ingenious solution
0:02:29 > 0:02:31to an irksome old problem.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34Will they tempt the Dragons to invest?
0:03:10 > 0:03:13Hello, everybody. My name's Bob.
0:03:13 > 0:03:14My partner, Steve.
0:03:14 > 0:03:18We've got something wonderful that we want you to love,
0:03:18 > 0:03:20because it's fantastic!
0:03:21 > 0:03:24We're introducing the Easy-Lift Drain to you.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29Many drains will not come out of the ground.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31They jam,
0:03:31 > 0:03:33they get corroded in.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35And they're an awful problem.
0:03:35 > 0:03:38This drain - you put two screws in...
0:03:40 > 0:03:44..you screw down...and it lifts on the bottom frame.
0:03:44 > 0:03:48So consequently, the surrounding ground...
0:03:49 > 0:03:51..stays the same. Doesn't move.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55And you can see it's the minimum of effort.
0:03:55 > 0:03:56Not difficult.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00You lower one end down on a pair of castors.
0:04:03 > 0:04:05And you can swing it round
0:04:05 > 0:04:07when you do the repair.
0:04:09 > 0:04:10And look at the saving -
0:04:10 > 0:04:13utility companies sending two men out to lift a drain.
0:04:15 > 0:04:17When you need a repair at home,
0:04:17 > 0:04:19you can literally do this yourself.
0:04:20 > 0:04:25We have one of the top builders' merchants in the country selling it for us.
0:04:25 > 0:04:29We think we could go worldwide.
0:04:32 > 0:04:35So...let the drain take the strain.
0:04:35 > 0:04:37Thank you very much.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44An exuberant pitch from Bob Cave and Steve Parsons,
0:04:44 > 0:04:46who are seeking a £100,000 investment
0:04:46 > 0:04:50in return for a 25% stake in their company.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54But Bob's unbridled enthusiasm for his product
0:04:54 > 0:04:57has left Peter Jones at a loss for words.
0:05:00 > 0:05:01Um...
0:05:05 > 0:05:08- Bob, is there something wrong with you?- Why?
0:05:08 > 0:05:10Because you got SO excited
0:05:10 > 0:05:13about this drain-cover lift.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17Well, I could be boring, couldn't I, but I think we've got something special!
0:05:17 > 0:05:19Bob, it's just a drain...
0:05:19 > 0:05:21spinny thing! Isn't it?
0:05:21 > 0:05:24Well, if it was that, why have we patented it?
0:05:24 > 0:05:25Isn't it a fantastic idea?
0:05:25 > 0:05:27Listen, people patent a lot of things.
0:05:27 > 0:05:30- It doesn't mean they're great things.- How come we're selling them?
0:05:30 > 0:05:32- How come...?- Now you're talking!
0:05:32 > 0:05:34Now you're talking, Bobster!
0:05:35 > 0:05:39How come the biggest building merchants
0:05:39 > 0:05:41in England...?
0:05:41 > 0:05:42So, Bobster... Bob. Bob.
0:05:42 > 0:05:44Just take a deep breath.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47- You've done your pitch. You've done quite well.- Thank you.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51You've sold some - that's the bit that got me.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54So tell me how it's selling at the moment.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57Well, let's say to you it's in its infancy.
0:05:57 > 0:06:01- This is really new. We've not been going years.- Got a funny feeling you might say that.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03But I just want to know - how many have you sold?
0:06:03 > 0:06:05- 60.- 60?- Yeah.
0:06:07 > 0:06:08OK.
0:06:08 > 0:06:10And how many have you made?
0:06:10 > 0:06:1160.
0:06:12 > 0:06:14OK. And who have you sold them to?
0:06:14 > 0:06:16Travis Perkins.
0:06:16 > 0:06:19- And how many have they sold? - They've sold about 20.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22- And how long have they had them? - Four months.
0:06:22 > 0:06:24- Four months, they've sold 20?- Yes.
0:06:26 > 0:06:29We're looking at something that could go worldwide.
0:06:31 > 0:06:33Bob's putting up a passionate defence.
0:06:33 > 0:06:37But there's something about the claims he's making for his product
0:06:37 > 0:06:39that's troubling Kelly Hoppen.
0:06:42 > 0:06:44I build houses all over the world,
0:06:44 > 0:06:47and whenever you're going to put a drain in,
0:06:47 > 0:06:50you can put tiles on the top, you can put Tarmac on the top, anything,
0:06:50 > 0:06:54because when you lift it out, you don't then have to destroy everything around the perimeter,
0:06:54 > 0:06:57so you haven't created something new there.
0:06:57 > 0:06:59No, we have, because when you lift it out...
0:06:59 > 0:07:02But I see it being done all the time.
0:07:02 > 0:07:05Yes, but if you lift it out when it's new,
0:07:05 > 0:07:06yes, you can lift it,
0:07:06 > 0:07:11because it's got no... It's not fretted in to the frame.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14You do one after two years - the frame round it will come up
0:07:14 > 0:07:16and you'll see all the bricks move.
0:07:16 > 0:07:18I've got a drain at home
0:07:18 > 0:07:21that I literally put this steel rod
0:07:21 > 0:07:24into the drain, turn sideways, unlocks, and lift it up.
0:07:24 > 0:07:25What weight is that?
0:07:25 > 0:07:27Well...it's not THAT heavy.
0:07:27 > 0:07:30What weight? This weighs 64 kilos.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33You're not supposed to lift over 25 kilos.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35So this is fantastic.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38You're not going to have a bad back.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40Look what it does to help people.
0:07:40 > 0:07:42We know the health and safety lifting guidelines
0:07:42 > 0:07:47and this is the only drain that's got a one-man lifting system
0:07:47 > 0:07:52that can remove that quite easily with no effort at all.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55I can do that in about two minutes 35 seconds.
0:07:55 > 0:07:59- And that's putting it... - Steve, you look shattered.
0:08:01 > 0:08:05It's been a long day! Yeah, but I can do that in two minutes 35 seconds.
0:08:05 > 0:08:06And, um...
0:08:06 > 0:08:09for recessed manhole covers
0:08:09 > 0:08:10can take a lot longer.
0:08:10 > 0:08:14I've opened drains that size before on my own, with two keys. Lifted it up.
0:08:14 > 0:08:16- Not a problem. - That's correct, but...
0:08:16 > 0:08:18Did that weigh over 25 kilos?
0:08:19 > 0:08:23- Yeah.- Then you're not doing right. You'll hurt your back.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27- How long does a drain cover last - 120 years?- It could do, yeah.
0:08:27 > 0:08:31So, 120 years...every drain cover may have been replaced by yours
0:08:31 > 0:08:33if everyone started today?
0:08:33 > 0:08:35If that happened, we'd be rich men!
0:08:35 > 0:08:37- You'd be dead as well. - No, we wouldn't.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44Piers Linney may have failed to dent Bob's optimism,
0:08:44 > 0:08:48but has Kelly Hoppen spotted something about his product
0:08:48 > 0:08:51that could dent a potential investment?
0:08:54 > 0:08:57- I've come to you. I've got existing drains.- Yes.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59And I want to buy off you
0:08:59 > 0:09:03the parts to change the existing drains I've got.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06- Is that possible? - It could be for existing
0:09:06 > 0:09:11when the other drain manufacturers take the mechanism on.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13I have to buy a whole new system?
0:09:13 > 0:09:15This is development.
0:09:15 > 0:09:18We've gone a long way in a short time.
0:09:18 > 0:09:20We're adding this into the market.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23How many new drains are fitted every week?
0:09:23 > 0:09:25- In this country? KELLY:- Why are you looking at me?
0:09:25 > 0:09:27Because you might know.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30Do I actually know how many drains are fitted? I don't.
0:09:30 > 0:09:31Thousands.
0:09:31 > 0:09:35- DEBORAH:- No, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry! I'm not letting you get away with that!
0:09:35 > 0:09:39How many drains are fitted in the UK each year?
0:09:39 > 0:09:41How many? We've done the research.
0:09:41 > 0:09:45There is approximately...um...
0:09:46 > 0:09:50About 40,000 external domestic drains.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53All in all, the commercial side as well,
0:09:53 > 0:09:56we're talking about probably hundreds of thousands
0:09:56 > 0:09:58of recessed covers...
0:09:58 > 0:10:00- OK.- ..that go in per year.
0:10:00 > 0:10:04So we are... Our business model is for both markets.
0:10:04 > 0:10:08How much of the market do you think in the first year
0:10:08 > 0:10:10you're going to be able to gain?
0:10:10 > 0:10:12Well, as we're going, we'd hope 5% to 10%.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16Sorry...in your first year, you're going to get 5% to 10% of the sales?
0:10:16 > 0:10:19Going full flow,
0:10:19 > 0:10:21with marketing and assistance,
0:10:21 > 0:10:26we think we can sell in the region of 3,000 to 4,000 units per annum.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30- DUNCAN:- Bob, you don't need marketing. If you're in with the biggest building merchant
0:10:30 > 0:10:32and he's already bought 20
0:10:32 > 0:10:34and he finds how great they are,
0:10:34 > 0:10:35he'll come back and order another 100.
0:10:35 > 0:10:38You don't need marketing. You just need him to buy them.
0:10:40 > 0:10:45How much is a normal recessed drain cover of that size?
0:10:45 > 0:10:48We think it's round about £35 to £42.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51So the premium on yours is about £16?
0:10:51 > 0:10:52Yes.
0:10:52 > 0:10:56- Because of the lift? - Yes, because of that system.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58I've seen in my profession for the last nine years
0:10:58 > 0:11:03contractors having to go back to site
0:11:03 > 0:11:06to destroy the whole thing to put another one in,
0:11:06 > 0:11:09so these contractors will prefer to buy this,
0:11:09 > 0:11:11because it saves them money.
0:11:11 > 0:11:12The trouble is,
0:11:12 > 0:11:16most people don't place the reasons you're talking about upfront.
0:11:16 > 0:11:20If they're going to lose a contract because their price is wrong,
0:11:20 > 0:11:22trust me, they're going to put the original drains in.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26This will not be bought by anybody
0:11:26 > 0:11:29unless they are prepared to pay a premium.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32So, I'm sorry. I won't be investing. I'm out.
0:11:35 > 0:11:39A dubious Deborah Meaden has declined the opportunity to invest.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43Will Duncan Bannatyne be any more willing
0:11:43 > 0:11:45to make Bob and Steve an offer?
0:11:46 > 0:11:49How much money have you invested in this, Steve?
0:11:49 > 0:11:52- My redundancy money has gone into it.- How much?
0:11:52 > 0:11:54Round about £15,000.
0:11:54 > 0:11:56- £15,000?- Yeah.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01- How much have you put in, Bob? - Around £5,000,
0:12:01 > 0:12:06plus my company has carried a lot of costs to develop it.
0:12:06 > 0:12:09I just think the money you both put into this is just money down the drain.
0:12:11 > 0:12:14This is not a viable project. So, for that reason,
0:12:14 > 0:12:16- I'm out.- OK.
0:12:18 > 0:12:23My issue with this is that you need to change the manhole cover industry,
0:12:23 > 0:12:25the drain industry, which is great - maybe you will.
0:12:25 > 0:12:29But it might take 100 years to replace all the drains out there,
0:12:29 > 0:12:30where they can apply your system.
0:12:30 > 0:12:32And I haven't got 100 years to wait.
0:12:32 > 0:12:36I'm looking to invest, not generate a legacy for those that come after me.
0:12:36 > 0:12:40But whatever you've invented here isn't a business,
0:12:40 > 0:12:42- so...I'm out.- OK. Thank you.
0:12:45 > 0:12:46Three Dragons have bowed out.
0:12:46 > 0:12:50Now it's time for Kelly Hoppen to have her say.
0:12:52 > 0:12:55I build multi-million-pound homes all over the world
0:12:55 > 0:12:58and the end result is the most important.
0:12:58 > 0:13:02So to have something that I know is not going to destroy
0:13:02 > 0:13:06something I've designed and my builders have built at the end
0:13:06 > 0:13:07is music to my ears.
0:13:07 > 0:13:13But I don't know commercially how you can make this work in terms of existing drains,
0:13:13 > 0:13:18so I think, go away, try and figure out some way that you can adapt the idea
0:13:18 > 0:13:23and rework how you're going to actually get this to market and sell it.
0:13:23 > 0:13:27- But I'm not going to invest. I'm afraid I'm out. Good luck. - Thank you.
0:13:28 > 0:13:31I think it is a great, neat invention
0:13:31 > 0:13:34and if you can find a way to retro-fit this,
0:13:34 > 0:13:37I think that you will sell a lot.
0:13:39 > 0:13:42I wouldn't have invested in it, because frankly,
0:13:42 > 0:13:43I'd rather paint my own toenails.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46I find it... I'm just not interested in it.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49I say good luck to you, I'm not going to invest and I'm out.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52- Thank you.- Thank you, guys.
0:13:54 > 0:13:56The drain might be taking the strain...
0:13:58 > 0:14:00..but sadly for Bob and Steve,
0:14:00 > 0:14:03they won't be taking any of the Dragons' hard-earned cash.
0:14:07 > 0:14:12- Oh, well, we did our best, didn't we? - But the good thing is they liked it.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15If you look at both of us, we had a go.
0:14:15 > 0:14:17A lot of people just stand around doing nothing.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22And we've done our bit, and we're on our way.
0:14:22 > 0:14:23Yeah.
0:14:37 > 0:14:40Next into the Den were a team of entrepreneurs
0:14:40 > 0:14:44who were sure they'd solved another complex issue -
0:14:44 > 0:14:46that of ill-fitting bras.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51Sisters Sue McDonald and Linda Birtwhistle,
0:14:51 > 0:14:54alongside plastic surgeon Atul Khanna,
0:14:54 > 0:14:58were seeking £40,000 in return for a 10% stake
0:14:58 > 0:15:00in their bra-fitting business
0:15:00 > 0:15:04that they hoped would revolutionise the way women wear lingerie.
0:15:06 > 0:15:08It is a well-established fact
0:15:08 > 0:15:12that 80% of women wear the wrong size bra,
0:15:12 > 0:15:16with devastating physiological and psychological problems.
0:15:18 > 0:15:20To paraphrase Victor Hugo,
0:15:20 > 0:15:24nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come.
0:15:24 > 0:15:25This idea has come.
0:15:27 > 0:15:29Impressive claims from the inventive trio.
0:15:29 > 0:15:34But Kelly Hoppen was baffled by how the measuring device actually worked.
0:15:36 > 0:15:39I would love to see you measure yourself with this,
0:15:39 > 0:15:43because I, to be honest, wouldn't know where to start...or not.
0:15:43 > 0:15:45This, you pull...
0:15:45 > 0:15:47in very tight.
0:15:47 > 0:15:49Top of the shoulder...
0:15:51 > 0:15:52Let that fall down to the side.
0:15:55 > 0:15:58And then go down to the side of the breast, halfway down,
0:15:58 > 0:16:00and put that there.
0:16:00 > 0:16:02Lean forward
0:16:02 > 0:16:03and go around, without stretching,
0:16:03 > 0:16:06to the same point, under the side.
0:16:06 > 0:16:07That gives you a measurement.
0:16:09 > 0:16:13Deborah Meaden wondered whether the complexity of the home measuring kit
0:16:13 > 0:16:15was its major weakness.
0:16:17 > 0:16:21Nearly every time I measure myself for something, it's wrong.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24What I'm going to be is really disappointed
0:16:24 > 0:16:26when I've actually measured myself and that bra turns up
0:16:26 > 0:16:30and it's no better, because I'VE got the measurement wrong.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33- But that's what's happening today anyway.- That's my point!
0:16:33 > 0:16:37Duncan Bannatyne felt that the lack of interest in the product
0:16:37 > 0:16:41from any of the major players in the lingerie sector was telling.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44I own a chain of health clubs. Suppose someone came,
0:16:44 > 0:16:46"There's a new piece of gym equipment.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48"Get this one - it works three limbs.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53"And then you can change it and use the other leg."
0:16:53 > 0:16:56I would say, "Well, no, that's no good."
0:16:56 > 0:17:01Resistance from the industry means your product doesn't work.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05Unfortunately for Sue, Linda and Atul,
0:17:05 > 0:17:08the Dragons all agreed their Optifit bra
0:17:08 > 0:17:11was little more than a storm in a D-cup.
0:17:12 > 0:17:15Most women are never going to buy this tape
0:17:15 > 0:17:18and re-measure themselves every time they buy a bra.
0:17:18 > 0:17:22Your alternative you're offering is not practical.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24It cannot take over the mass market.
0:17:24 > 0:17:28So I'm afraid I won't be investing, and I'm out.
0:17:48 > 0:17:51Our next entrepreneurs have a simple philosophy -
0:17:51 > 0:17:54making it yourself is more fun than buying it.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00Their West Country based craft business
0:18:00 > 0:18:03hopes to capitalise on this growing movement.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05But will it make any headway in the Den?
0:18:21 > 0:18:24- Hello, I'm Kate.- And I'm Nigel.
0:18:24 > 0:18:27And this is Sarah, and she's going to be making a lampshade
0:18:27 > 0:18:31whilst we're doing our pitch, just to show you the sort of thing we get up to at the Makery.
0:18:31 > 0:18:33The Makery is a modern craft brand.
0:18:33 > 0:18:36We have two companies - the Makery Emporium
0:18:36 > 0:18:37and the Makery Workshop.
0:18:39 > 0:18:41At the workshop, we teach people how to make things,
0:18:41 > 0:18:44so anything from upholstery to lampshade-making,
0:18:44 > 0:18:46knitting to knicker-making.
0:18:46 > 0:18:48A year after launch...
0:18:48 > 0:18:52A year after launch... SHE GIGGLES Sorry.
0:18:52 > 0:18:55Many of our workshops have become over-subscribed
0:18:55 > 0:19:00and it was clear that lots of our customers had trouble finding the products that they wanted.
0:19:00 > 0:19:04So we found new premises and we opened up the Makery Emporium,
0:19:04 > 0:19:07which is the business we're here to seek investment for.
0:19:07 > 0:19:13At the Emporium, we sell all sorts of modern craft goods from our shop in Bath
0:19:13 > 0:19:15and also online from our website.
0:19:15 > 0:19:18We're even looking forward to stocking our own book later this year.
0:19:18 > 0:19:22The first step that we'd like to take to prepare our retail business
0:19:22 > 0:19:24is to develop a range of make-it-yourself kits,
0:19:24 > 0:19:29called Make-Away, with our kits packaged in takeaway-style packaging,
0:19:29 > 0:19:32but we need some help with the manufacture, distribution,
0:19:32 > 0:19:35PR and also we'd like to...
0:19:35 > 0:19:38Sorry. ..develop the website slightly to tie in with the kits.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43- (The time...)- The time is right, Dragons.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46We've built a strong brand. We believe in it commercially.
0:19:46 > 0:19:51Now is the perfect time to get behind the excitement surrounding this making revolution.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53And with your help, Dragons, we firmly believe
0:19:53 > 0:19:56that the Makery is well placed to lead the way.
0:19:59 > 0:20:03A homespun pitch from make-do-and-menders Kate and Nigel,
0:20:03 > 0:20:06who are seeking a £50,000 investment
0:20:06 > 0:20:10in return for a 10% share in the retail side of their business.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15- Kate, hi. I'm Kelly.- Hello.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17I think you're adorable.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20- It's not put on - this is really you.- Yeah, it really is!
0:20:20 > 0:20:23I can guarantee that, yes.
0:20:24 > 0:20:26I actually think this is very cute.
0:20:26 > 0:20:30But nowhere, as far as I can see, does it tell you how to make it.
0:20:30 > 0:20:33I haven't put the instructions in there yet.
0:20:33 > 0:20:36What we want to do is we want to write out...
0:20:36 > 0:20:41two sets of instructions - one for those people who are naturally creative
0:20:41 > 0:20:43and another where people need a little bit more hand-holding.
0:20:43 > 0:20:48So there are ways we want to make the kits stand apart from what's available at the moment.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50- Nigel, Kate, hi. I'm Piers.- Hello.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53I really like it. It's just well done, really.
0:20:53 > 0:20:55It's pretty cool.
0:20:55 > 0:21:00The question for me is, do people really pay you £15 for...
0:21:00 > 0:21:02that...and that?
0:21:02 > 0:21:06Not for that in its current state, but once we have finished
0:21:06 > 0:21:08getting our hands on it, then, yes, absolutely.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11So how many different kits do you see yourself having?
0:21:11 > 0:21:12Initially, a range of five
0:21:12 > 0:21:14to hit the different age groups, really.
0:21:14 > 0:21:18When we were making the kits and testing them in the shop, we couldn't make them quick enough.
0:21:18 > 0:21:23So we know that there is a market that's hungry for new ideas
0:21:23 > 0:21:25and for us to inspire them to make new things.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28Can I ask you - those little toys over there, did you make those?
0:21:28 > 0:21:29No, we didn't make them.
0:21:29 > 0:21:33We do loads of children's workshops and we said we were coming...
0:21:33 > 0:21:35Am I the ugly monkey?
0:21:35 > 0:21:37- PIERS:- You're a very pretty monkey.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39ALL CHUCKLE
0:21:39 > 0:21:41- DEBORAH:- Can I see yours?
0:21:41 > 0:21:43- PIERS:- I've got a cloud on mine. - Of course you have.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45- DUNCAN:- This is me?
0:21:45 > 0:21:47Actually, that's very close.
0:21:47 > 0:21:49- PIERS:- One of your socks.
0:21:49 > 0:21:50Sweet!
0:21:50 > 0:21:53I think it looks lovely. I think that looks lovely.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55So I get all of that.
0:21:55 > 0:21:56Um...
0:21:56 > 0:21:58What do you think is your brand?
0:21:58 > 0:22:01The Makery is the brand.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04- So that device is your brand device? - Exactly right.
0:22:04 > 0:22:05That's weak.
0:22:07 > 0:22:08You haven't got a brand there,
0:22:08 > 0:22:11because... Well, it's muddled.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16The Makery's lack of a clear brand identity
0:22:16 > 0:22:18has troubled Deborah Meaden.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23Could the release of Kate and Nigel's forthcoming book
0:22:23 > 0:22:25bring a much-needed dose of clarity?
0:22:28 > 0:22:31Is it Conran Octopus that's publishing your book? How did that happen?
0:22:31 > 0:22:34We got approached by a book agent,
0:22:34 > 0:22:36which asked us if we'd like to write a book,
0:22:36 > 0:22:40so obviously I said yes - it was like a dream project for me to do.
0:22:40 > 0:22:43The book has actually got to be your brand now,
0:22:43 > 0:22:45because that's what's out there.
0:22:45 > 0:22:47So the packaging you have here,
0:22:47 > 0:22:49you've confused it slightly.
0:22:49 > 0:22:51I have to say, I mean, I'm...
0:22:51 > 0:22:55annoyed with myself now that the book doesn't reflect the, um...
0:22:55 > 0:22:57our company...
0:22:57 > 0:23:00really, as well as it should do, on the front cover.
0:23:00 > 0:23:04- It says "Makery" on the front. - Yes, I know, but the branding doesn't look the same.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08- DEBORAH:- That doesn't look like it's from the same family as that. - Not from the same stable.
0:23:08 > 0:23:09It just doesn't.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11- DUNCAN:- I don't think it matters. It looks great.
0:23:11 > 0:23:13It does look great.
0:23:13 > 0:23:17- I think it's important that it does strengthen...- Don't get me wrong. It looks great.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20It's just you're trying to build a brand, and I know about brands,
0:23:20 > 0:23:23- and, you know, it doesn't all fit. - No.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27I've called for a meeting with the publishers before we take any more steps creatively,
0:23:27 > 0:23:31for the next book, because I know how important that is. Absolutely.
0:23:34 > 0:23:36Kate's acknowledgment of the branding issue
0:23:36 > 0:23:39has reassured her potential investors.
0:23:41 > 0:23:44But Peter Jones is preoccupied less by art and design
0:23:44 > 0:23:47and more by simple mathematics.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51What does each business make in terms of profit?
0:23:51 > 0:23:53I'm interested in last year's numbers.
0:23:53 > 0:23:57Um, for the workshop this year, it is...
0:23:59 > 0:24:01Ooh! ..9... Oh, sorry.
0:24:01 > 0:24:02I'm just...
0:24:02 > 0:24:05The way I've memorised it in my head, I just need to...
0:24:05 > 0:24:06So, um...
0:24:08 > 0:24:09Er...
0:24:12 > 0:24:14You could just go through it as you've memorised it.
0:24:14 > 0:24:16Um...
0:24:16 > 0:24:18Last year, it made...
0:24:18 > 0:24:19Oh, this year it made...
0:24:21 > 0:24:23Um...
0:24:26 > 0:24:28- 90,000.- Made...?- No, no, no!
0:24:28 > 0:24:30Sorry.
0:24:31 > 0:24:35- Let me...- Come on, let's... Nigel, somebody help.
0:24:36 > 0:24:38- Let's just be simple.- I know, but...
0:24:38 > 0:24:43You're running a business together. What was the turnover and profit in each of the businesses last year?
0:24:43 > 0:24:46So, um... the Makery Workshop...
0:24:46 > 0:24:48um...turned over, er...
0:24:51 > 0:24:53£170,000.
0:24:53 > 0:24:55Um...with a...
0:24:55 > 0:24:58net profit of, um...
0:24:58 > 0:25:00£60,000.
0:25:00 > 0:25:01OK.
0:25:01 > 0:25:05And the shop side of the business, um...
0:25:05 > 0:25:09turned over £130,000,
0:25:09 > 0:25:12with a net profit of £20,000.
0:25:15 > 0:25:17A detailed knowledge of their own business
0:25:17 > 0:25:20is a must for any entrepreneur in the Den.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23And Kate's shaky grasp of her numbers
0:25:23 > 0:25:25has irked the Dragons.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30At the moment, you're making this opportunity about as exciting
0:25:30 > 0:25:32as investing in an inflatable anchor.
0:25:32 > 0:25:35I don't know how to take you two!
0:25:35 > 0:25:37It's like entering the world of business Narnia.
0:25:37 > 0:25:39That's not so bad!
0:25:39 > 0:25:41I...I don't...
0:25:41 > 0:25:42I'm...I'm losing the will to live.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44Me too.
0:25:45 > 0:25:49You've valued this business at £500,000,
0:25:49 > 0:25:50for the shop only.
0:25:50 > 0:25:55So that's 25 times profit. How do you justify that?
0:25:56 > 0:25:59In our market, our brand is very well recognised and we've got lots of followers,
0:25:59 > 0:26:02so the potential for the brand is actually,
0:26:02 > 0:26:05we think, really quite big.
0:26:05 > 0:26:09If you do crack it and become a...you know, a favoured brand,
0:26:09 > 0:26:13you could have something quite interesting. It's about marketing, really.
0:26:13 > 0:26:15So what's your marketing budget for the next 12 months?
0:26:15 > 0:26:18Um...it is about...
0:26:19 > 0:26:21Not an exact number, just...
0:26:21 > 0:26:2210, 20, 30?
0:26:22 > 0:26:26No, it's not even 20. It's more like 10 to 15.
0:26:26 > 0:26:29You've got the beginnings here of quite a strong brand.
0:26:30 > 0:26:33But developing that and owning that market is going to take...
0:26:33 > 0:26:35I don't feel that we have to do it all at once.
0:26:35 > 0:26:40I think this would be an initial investment that would take us to the next level
0:26:40 > 0:26:42and then we could go from there and expand.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45I completely disagree with that. I think you do have to do it all at once.
0:26:45 > 0:26:49- This is an absolute... - The time is now.- You know that.
0:26:49 > 0:26:50Your instinct's good on that.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53This is a land grab, isn't it?
0:26:53 > 0:26:56It's such a current
0:26:56 > 0:27:00movement that's going on at the moment, all this making things
0:27:00 > 0:27:01and sewing and learning...
0:27:01 > 0:27:04Maybe it's just a fad, but let's get realistic here.
0:27:05 > 0:27:07The thought of investing in a business
0:27:07 > 0:27:10where people are sitting and doing some sewing and things like that,
0:27:10 > 0:27:12it's just... For me, it's just crackers.
0:27:13 > 0:27:16- I think you're both great, but I'm out.- Thank you.
0:27:19 > 0:27:21A blow for Kate and Nigel,
0:27:21 > 0:27:23who've now lost their first Dragon.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26Will Peter Jones or Deborah Meaden
0:27:26 > 0:27:30be any more willing to buy into the couple's making revolution?
0:27:32 > 0:27:33I think there's a lot to do, you know.
0:27:33 > 0:27:36I'm not so sure that the business
0:27:36 > 0:27:38warrants it.
0:27:38 > 0:27:42So I'm going to wish you well on your way back to your wonderful...
0:27:42 > 0:27:45- amazing world that you both live in. - Thank you.
0:27:45 > 0:27:48- I'm not going to invest. I'm out. - Thank you, Peter.- Thanks.
0:27:51 > 0:27:55I think you've definitely got something. But I actually think there would be a problem
0:27:55 > 0:27:57with the way we wanted to work together,
0:27:57 > 0:28:00because I almost feel like I'd want to get a team in there and say,
0:28:00 > 0:28:02"Get that out there and do it really quickly!"
0:28:02 > 0:28:04And I don't think that's what you want.
0:28:04 > 0:28:06I LOVE working on the Makery,
0:28:06 > 0:28:08and I want it to be huge.
0:28:08 > 0:28:11And I do want it to grow quickly. We both do, don't we?
0:28:11 > 0:28:14That's not what you've been delivering through this pitch.
0:28:14 > 0:28:16I...I think there'd be a...
0:28:16 > 0:28:18there'd be a conflict there,
0:28:18 > 0:28:21which is a shame. But anyway, I won't be investing, so I'm out.
0:28:23 > 0:28:25Nigel, Kate...I like you.
0:28:25 > 0:28:30I love the product. I'd love to visit Kate and Nigel's world,
0:28:30 > 0:28:31but I'm not going to move in!
0:28:33 > 0:28:34You've done a great job.
0:28:34 > 0:28:38I think there's a niche there you can build a business in.
0:28:38 > 0:28:40I'm just not sure how big that could be,
0:28:40 > 0:28:42so good luck, but I'm out.
0:28:44 > 0:28:46Only one Dragon remains.
0:28:46 > 0:28:50Kelly Hoppen has appeared receptive to Kate and Nigel's plans.
0:28:50 > 0:28:53But will she be willing to make them an offer?
0:28:58 > 0:29:00I'm going from one thought to another.
0:29:05 > 0:29:09I do like the idea of a sort of takeaway, Make-Away - I think that's good.
0:29:10 > 0:29:13There are people out there that have done this and made a lot of money,
0:29:13 > 0:29:15like VV Rouleaux.
0:29:15 > 0:29:17You know, everyone aspires to that company.
0:29:22 > 0:29:26If I was going to invest in this, I'd want to really invest in it and do something big,
0:29:26 > 0:29:29and I'd want such a big percentage of your business,
0:29:29 > 0:29:31and I don't want to take advantage of you,
0:29:31 > 0:29:32so I'm afraid I'm out,
0:29:32 > 0:29:35but I seriously wish you the best of luck with it.
0:29:35 > 0:29:37Thank you. Thanks very much.
0:29:37 > 0:29:38Thanks.
0:29:42 > 0:29:45So, despite enthusiasm for their takeaway-style kits,
0:29:45 > 0:29:48Kate and Nigel are leaving the Den empty-handed.
0:29:50 > 0:29:51A timely business idea perhaps,
0:29:51 > 0:29:55but not one that's excited the Dragons sufficiently
0:29:55 > 0:29:57to prompt an investment.
0:30:12 > 0:30:15So far tonight, each visitor to the Den
0:30:15 > 0:30:17has left empty-handed.
0:30:19 > 0:30:21This will not be bought by anybody
0:30:21 > 0:30:24unless they are prepared to pay a premium.
0:30:24 > 0:30:26So, I'm sorry. I won't be investing. I'm out.
0:30:29 > 0:30:32Will any of these entrepreneurs be able to persuade the Dragons
0:30:32 > 0:30:34that their business is the next big thing?
0:30:34 > 0:30:37I'm not convinced you need anybody's help.
0:30:38 > 0:30:39I think we do!
0:30:46 > 0:30:49Now, mankind has been cutting wood
0:30:49 > 0:30:51for thousands of years.
0:30:51 > 0:30:54We've got advanced tools like saws to help us do it.
0:30:54 > 0:30:57So you might think no-one could come up with a new way
0:30:57 > 0:30:59of making the task easier.
0:30:59 > 0:31:02Well, think again. Cumbrian-based duo
0:31:02 > 0:31:05Richard Bowness and Steve Tonkin believe they've done exactly that.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22Here we go!
0:31:40 > 0:31:42Hello, Dragons. I'm Richard Bowness.
0:31:42 > 0:31:48I'm the inventor and shareholder of the Truncator multi-cut sawhorse.
0:31:48 > 0:31:53We've come here to ask for £125,000
0:31:53 > 0:31:56for 30% of our company.
0:31:56 > 0:31:58Hello, Dragons. I'm Steve Tonkin.
0:31:58 > 0:32:00I'm project manager here at Truncator
0:32:00 > 0:32:02and I'd like to introduce you to our sawhorse.
0:32:02 > 0:32:06The Truncator sawhorse is a revolutionary new chainsaw sawhorse
0:32:06 > 0:32:09that makes the process of cutting logs
0:32:09 > 0:32:12easier, faster and much, much safer.
0:32:12 > 0:32:16Our sawhorse is a unique sawhorse.
0:32:16 > 0:32:19It's the only sawhorse where you multiple-cut logs.
0:32:19 > 0:32:21The logs are held by the cup system
0:32:21 > 0:32:23and you simply stack from the cups,
0:32:23 > 0:32:26or in fact, even better, tip the cup system
0:32:26 > 0:32:28into a container to create your logpile.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33We're here today to hope that with your investment and help,
0:32:33 > 0:32:35we could take our brand and our invention
0:32:35 > 0:32:38from Cumbria to the UK and the rest of Europe.
0:32:38 > 0:32:41I have some ear defenders for you now to put on,
0:32:41 > 0:32:44while Richard gives a demonstration of the device.
0:32:48 > 0:32:53A somewhat nervous pitch from Richard Bowness and Steve Tonkin from Cumbria.
0:32:53 > 0:32:57They're looking for investment for their souped-up version
0:32:57 > 0:33:01of a sawhorse - a device used to secure wood while it's being cut.
0:33:01 > 0:33:03Before the questioning can commence,
0:33:03 > 0:33:06it's time to see the product in action.
0:33:26 > 0:33:28Tip the logs...
0:33:36 > 0:33:39One barrow full of logs. 30 seconds.
0:33:42 > 0:33:44Hi. I'm Deborah.
0:33:44 > 0:33:45Um, so...
0:33:45 > 0:33:49What are people currently using to chop logs?
0:33:49 > 0:33:52All sawhorses on the market at the moment
0:33:52 > 0:33:56drop the logs onto the ground, which creates trip hazards.
0:33:56 > 0:34:01More importantly, most people are cutting one and two pieces of wood at a time.
0:34:01 > 0:34:05This, you can fill that, and you have multiple cutting.
0:34:05 > 0:34:09So you are getting at least 100% to 200%
0:34:09 > 0:34:11increase in productivity.
0:34:16 > 0:34:18Bold claims from the entrepreneurs.
0:34:18 > 0:34:22But can they back them up under questioning from Peter Jones?
0:34:25 > 0:34:28How many people could go out in their back garden,
0:34:28 > 0:34:30cut down some trees,
0:34:30 > 0:34:32put them on to the Truncator,
0:34:32 > 0:34:35then cut their logs, then take them back into the house?
0:34:35 > 0:34:37What's the reality of that?
0:34:37 > 0:34:41Is that one in 50,000, one in a million?
0:34:41 > 0:34:42Um...
0:34:42 > 0:34:44At least one...
0:34:44 > 0:34:47- I would have thought it would be a lot more than that.- One in what?
0:34:47 > 0:34:49What I'm saying is...
0:34:49 > 0:34:51Because the market is so big,
0:34:51 > 0:34:53we can't actually ascertain where it is.
0:34:53 > 0:34:55I don't think the market IS big.
0:34:55 > 0:34:58I would accept your view, but you're completely wrong.
0:34:58 > 0:35:00But that doesn't help.
0:35:00 > 0:35:03I accept that it is a thing that isn't within your gambit.
0:35:03 > 0:35:05For you haven't got the knowledge
0:35:05 > 0:35:07to actually ascertain...
0:35:07 > 0:35:09But you've both got the knowledge
0:35:09 > 0:35:13and you've come in here with a table I could get from anywhere
0:35:13 > 0:35:16with a Truncator put on the front as a brand,
0:35:16 > 0:35:19and you are then telling me that I'm wrong? Well, give me some facts.
0:35:22 > 0:35:27We're looking for sales of 1,300 of these units in the first year.
0:35:27 > 0:35:31- And that should produce 65,000. - Gross profit?
0:35:31 > 0:35:36Gross profit. We're then going to 3,500,
0:35:36 > 0:35:39and that goes to the 130.
0:35:39 > 0:35:42What's your net profit going to be in those two years?
0:35:47 > 0:35:49(Do you remember?)
0:35:49 > 0:35:50Um...
0:36:02 > 0:36:05Sorry, the figures have gone out of my head.
0:36:08 > 0:36:10How can we put this...?
0:36:10 > 0:36:13- This is quite good.- Um...
0:36:13 > 0:36:15What did you say? What did you say, Richard?
0:36:15 > 0:36:17This is quite good!
0:36:17 > 0:36:19Is that your humour?
0:36:19 > 0:36:23It is, actually, because we're making a complete mess of the figures.
0:36:27 > 0:36:30By arguing back and getting the numbers wrong,
0:36:30 > 0:36:33Richard has ruffled the feathers of the Dragons.
0:36:33 > 0:36:38Is easing the Den's uncomfortable atmosphere on Kelly Hoppen's agenda?
0:36:42 > 0:36:44Can I just say that, you know,
0:36:44 > 0:36:47everyone that comes in here with an invention,
0:36:47 > 0:36:50I take my hat off to you. I love the way it chops up the logs neatly.
0:36:50 > 0:36:52But in terms of a business,
0:36:52 > 0:36:54it's a flawed business plan.
0:36:54 > 0:36:57You're talking about all the people that go and buy a chainsaw.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00It's not going to be people that are chopping down logs
0:37:00 > 0:37:02for a business.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05You go to petrol stations, all these hardware stores, where they're all bagged up.
0:37:05 > 0:37:09I think that you're thinking that all of those thousands of people
0:37:09 > 0:37:13that are buying the chainsaws have got a business.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15Most people that I know that live in the country
0:37:15 > 0:37:19actually enjoy cutting down the logs. It's like a pastime.
0:37:19 > 0:37:22But I don't think you're going to sell enough.
0:37:23 > 0:37:24OK.
0:37:24 > 0:37:27It's flawed. Could I say...
0:37:28 > 0:37:33I am quite impressed with the pluck of you all, telling somebody who does cut logs big-time
0:37:33 > 0:37:35and has done for 50-odd years...
0:37:35 > 0:37:37Richard. Richard, so you're saying
0:37:37 > 0:37:40that you're unimpressed by us because we don't cut logs,
0:37:40 > 0:37:43so we don't know what we're talking about when it comes to cutting logs?
0:37:44 > 0:37:47- Yes.- Right, well, what I'm saying is this -
0:37:47 > 0:37:50I'm unimpressed with you telling us
0:37:50 > 0:37:53how to run a profitable, successful business.
0:37:53 > 0:37:55I'm out.
0:37:58 > 0:38:01Challenging the Dragons appears a kamikaze tactic,
0:38:01 > 0:38:04as Duncan Bannatyne walks away from the deal.
0:38:04 > 0:38:09Piers Linney is keen to steer the pitch back to business
0:38:09 > 0:38:12and the all-important issue of sales.
0:38:12 > 0:38:17I don't think anybody here thinks that there isn't a market for this.
0:38:17 > 0:38:19There is, clearly.
0:38:19 > 0:38:22The question is, how big is that market?
0:38:22 > 0:38:27- That's where the disagreement...- I'd be surprised if we weren't selling
0:38:27 > 0:38:30£1 million of that product within three years.
0:38:30 > 0:38:32Yeah, but you sit here and you chuck out words like,
0:38:32 > 0:38:36"I would be surprised if we don't sell a million of these."
0:38:36 > 0:38:40And honestly, you...YOU are surprised at me!
0:38:40 > 0:38:43Well, I'm really surprised at you
0:38:43 > 0:38:45not coming up with actual fact.
0:38:45 > 0:38:48"I reckon we'll sell 3,000 to 4,000..."
0:38:48 > 0:38:50Then tell me you're going to sell 3,000 to 4,000.
0:38:50 > 0:38:53We will sell far more than 3,000 to 4,000.
0:38:53 > 0:38:56This start-up company, up to now,
0:38:56 > 0:38:59has consisted of me for two years
0:38:59 > 0:39:02and Steve for roughly 60 days.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06How is that helping me make a decision on whether or not I invest in you?
0:39:06 > 0:39:08Because myself...
0:39:08 > 0:39:12I've sold £9,000 of that product
0:39:12 > 0:39:15to hill farmers in the hardest market you could ever believe,
0:39:15 > 0:39:19to people that have never bought a sawhorse,
0:39:19 > 0:39:21won't buy anything,
0:39:21 > 0:39:24and I've sold it to the hardest...
0:39:24 > 0:39:27Richard, you're missing the point. This is all fantastic.
0:39:27 > 0:39:29Every entrepreneur that comes in here
0:39:29 > 0:39:30has a story behind them.
0:39:30 > 0:39:32Every entrepreneur sitting here in front of you
0:39:32 > 0:39:36has worked their socks off to get where they are today.
0:39:36 > 0:39:39That doesn't give me the reason to invest.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42I think you'd be impossible to work with.
0:39:42 > 0:39:47You always have to look at the person at the end of the day
0:39:47 > 0:39:49and think, "How would we work together?"
0:39:49 > 0:39:51And we wouldn't.
0:39:51 > 0:39:52We would kill each other.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56So I'm out.
0:39:59 > 0:40:01Richard's defensiveness of his product
0:40:01 > 0:40:05is proving disastrous, as an irritated Deborah Meaden bows out.
0:40:05 > 0:40:08And it looks like Kelly Hoppen
0:40:08 > 0:40:10has also made up her mind.
0:40:12 > 0:40:14You've kind of walked in here,
0:40:14 > 0:40:17unenergetic, unexcited about a product
0:40:17 > 0:40:21that I actually like, although it's so out of my...
0:40:21 > 0:40:23sphere of what I do for a living.
0:40:23 > 0:40:26But I can see that it's a good product.
0:40:26 > 0:40:29But your attitude is so unengaging.
0:40:31 > 0:40:32So, you know, obviously,
0:40:32 > 0:40:36- you know what I'm going to say. I'm afraid I'm out.- That's fine. - Thank you.
0:40:37 > 0:40:39Steve, Richard, it was rubbish.
0:40:39 > 0:40:42Just the whole... Not the product. I like the product.
0:40:42 > 0:40:46I don't get it. I don't live in the country, like some of the other Dragons.
0:40:46 > 0:40:50If I got a chainsaw out in my garden, somebody would probably call the police.
0:40:50 > 0:40:52But the biggest issue...
0:40:53 > 0:40:55..I think is yourself.
0:40:55 > 0:40:59I just can't imagine working with you and trying to have a straight conversation with you,
0:40:59 > 0:41:01because I think you think you know better.
0:41:01 > 0:41:03And perhaps you do when it comes to logging,
0:41:03 > 0:41:07but it's not just about logging, it's about building a business.
0:41:07 > 0:41:10- So I'm out.- Thank you. - Thank you.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14Four Dragons are out.
0:41:14 > 0:41:17Will Peter Jones be an unlikely saviour
0:41:17 > 0:41:21to what's proving to be a chainsaw massacre in the Den?
0:41:22 > 0:41:24You really should have got onto your numbers.
0:41:24 > 0:41:27You really should have asked yourselves the questions
0:41:27 > 0:41:29that you believe would be asked.
0:41:29 > 0:41:31One day's worth of work before you came in here...
0:41:34 > 0:41:37..and you would have been able to answer some pretty easy questions.
0:41:39 > 0:41:40Appalling pitch.
0:41:40 > 0:41:43And that's the reason why I'm not investing. I'm out.
0:41:43 > 0:41:45- Thank you, Peter.- Thank you.
0:41:47 > 0:41:50It takes a brave person to argue with these Dragons
0:41:50 > 0:41:53and in the end, it didn't pay off for Richard and Steve.
0:41:53 > 0:41:56They may have fought valiantly to defend their product,
0:41:56 > 0:42:00but it only resulted in expulsion from the Den.
0:42:00 > 0:42:02They leave with nothing.
0:42:02 > 0:42:04Oh...bloody hell!
0:42:04 > 0:42:07- That was rough, wasn't it?- It was a mauling and a half, that was.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13That is a great demonstration of how to NOT get an investment.
0:42:15 > 0:42:20Once they were getting really aggressive, wouldn't accept what I said,
0:42:20 > 0:42:23I was just wanting to get out of there,
0:42:23 > 0:42:27because I would not do business with the three older Dragons
0:42:27 > 0:42:29in any shape or form.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32I'd help them out in a life or death situation,
0:42:32 > 0:42:36but I wouldn't put a slate on their roof for a tenner.
0:42:41 > 0:42:43The emotional investment
0:42:43 > 0:42:45for any entrepreneur coming into the Den
0:42:45 > 0:42:46is huge.
0:42:49 > 0:42:51But the Dragons base their financial decisions
0:42:51 > 0:42:53on a mix of fact and instinct.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59And there's no more formidable a Dragon
0:42:59 > 0:43:00than Peter Jones.
0:43:02 > 0:43:04You look very nervous.
0:43:04 > 0:43:05I am nervous, yeah.
0:43:05 > 0:43:07What's nervous about the Den?
0:43:07 > 0:43:09Exactly, yeah!
0:43:10 > 0:43:12You've really messed up, haven't you?
0:43:12 > 0:43:13It seems so.
0:43:13 > 0:43:17You're almost deluded in your approach to business.
0:43:17 > 0:43:20It's your problem. You're pitching to me.
0:43:22 > 0:43:24His vast business portfolio,
0:43:24 > 0:43:27built up both inside and outside the Den,
0:43:27 > 0:43:31means that no-one cuts to the heart of a potential deal quite like him.
0:43:33 > 0:43:35I've gone into the drinks business,
0:43:35 > 0:43:37and it is incredibly competitive.
0:43:37 > 0:43:41I brought out a board game called Big Business two years ago.
0:43:41 > 0:43:43If I tell you that we didn't make any money...
0:43:44 > 0:43:47You're going to need about £1 million, minimum.
0:43:47 > 0:43:49It's seven figures or more investment.
0:43:49 > 0:43:54Levi, we spend £2 million a year today on marketing.
0:43:54 > 0:43:57I would suggest that you have a reality check
0:43:57 > 0:44:00and make this 100 times more impressive.
0:44:02 > 0:44:04But while his assessments can be damning,
0:44:04 > 0:44:07you can rely on his trademark one-liners
0:44:07 > 0:44:08to soften the blow.
0:44:08 > 0:44:12Your projections are about as useful as a ladder for a carpet-fitter.
0:44:12 > 0:44:15That looks about as practical as an ashtray on a motorbike.
0:44:16 > 0:44:19It's about as exciting as an ejector seat in a helicopter.
0:44:19 > 0:44:20Oh, no!
0:44:20 > 0:44:22I'm not going to make you an offer. I'm out.
0:44:34 > 0:44:38The million people in the UK who are said to practise yoga
0:44:38 > 0:44:40may find it helps their mental and physical health.
0:44:40 > 0:44:43But next into the Den is a Scottish couple
0:44:43 > 0:44:46who hope yoga might boost their financial health as well,
0:44:46 > 0:44:49if they can just secure an investment from the Dragons.
0:45:21 > 0:45:23Namaste.
0:45:23 > 0:45:24My name is Cheryl MacDonald.
0:45:24 > 0:45:28I am the founder yoga teacher and director of YogaBellies
0:45:28 > 0:45:31and this is my husband, Michael MacDonald, also a director.
0:45:31 > 0:45:34YogaBellies offer authentic yoga classes
0:45:34 > 0:45:36for women and children, which allow them
0:45:36 > 0:45:38to enjoy all the benefits of yoga
0:45:38 > 0:45:40in a welcoming, safe and fun environment.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44Our organisation began when my son was only six weeks old
0:45:44 > 0:45:46and I was teaching pregnancy yoga in my spare bedroom.
0:45:46 > 0:45:48From these humble beginnings,
0:45:48 > 0:45:51we have grown to over 60 franchise teachers across the world
0:45:51 > 0:45:53and continue to grow.
0:45:53 > 0:45:55We also offer women the opportunity
0:45:55 > 0:45:58to own a successful yet ethical yoga franchise,
0:45:58 > 0:46:00work around their family,
0:46:00 > 0:46:02improve their own mental and physical wellbeing
0:46:02 > 0:46:05and help other women. What could be more rewarding than this?
0:46:05 > 0:46:09YogaBellies generates income from initial franchise training fees,
0:46:09 > 0:46:12annual fees and packs that we sell to teachers
0:46:12 > 0:46:15to give to every member that comes to a YogaBellies class.
0:46:15 > 0:46:19We're on target this year for a turnover of 116,000,
0:46:19 > 0:46:21with a net profit of £50,000.
0:46:21 > 0:46:26In years two and three, turnover will be 160,000 and 290,000,
0:46:26 > 0:46:30with net profits of 76,000 and 200,000 respectively.
0:46:30 > 0:46:33I'd now like to invite one of our certified YogaBellies teachers,
0:46:33 > 0:46:36Sophie, who is 22 weeks pregnant,
0:46:36 > 0:46:39into the Den to be involved in the demonstration.
0:46:47 > 0:46:51We're going to take the front foot to 90 degrees and the back foot to 45.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54We're then going to swing the arms forward
0:46:54 > 0:46:59and take them behind the back into reverse prayer position or namaskar.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01We're then going to take an inhale and a back bend...
0:47:02 > 0:47:05..and on the exhale, gently coming forward,
0:47:05 > 0:47:08only as far as is comfortable - we don't want to squish our baby.
0:47:08 > 0:47:09Thank you, Sophie.
0:47:15 > 0:47:17It's a harmonious pitch from Cheryl and Mike,
0:47:17 > 0:47:19who are seeking £50,000
0:47:19 > 0:47:23in return for a 20% stake in their business.
0:47:23 > 0:47:26But before the Dragons put the couple through their paces,
0:47:26 > 0:47:31Peter Jones seizes the opportunity to quiz one of their franchisees.
0:47:32 > 0:47:34How much money have you made over the last 12 months
0:47:34 > 0:47:36working with YogaBellies?
0:47:36 > 0:47:40I have two, I'm happy to say, very successful classes that I'm teaching.
0:47:40 > 0:47:46And on my busiest class, which would have around 18 to 20 mums booked in,
0:47:46 > 0:47:48on a regular basis,
0:47:48 > 0:47:51they would be pulling in just over £200.
0:47:51 > 0:47:53- So about £10,000 a year?- Yes.
0:47:53 > 0:47:56That's only from two classes a week. That's absolutely phenomenal.
0:47:56 > 0:47:58How much did you pay to go on the course?
0:47:58 > 0:48:04There has been price increases ever since the training actually started.
0:48:04 > 0:48:09My initial investment, I think, encompassing the 200 hours' yoga teacher training
0:48:09 > 0:48:14was probably round about the £2,000, £2,100 mark.
0:48:14 > 0:48:17Sophie, I think we've got no more questions. Thank you very much.
0:48:17 > 0:48:18Not a problem. Thank you very much.
0:48:18 > 0:48:20Thank you.
0:48:27 > 0:48:29Hi, Cheryl and Michael. I'm Kelly.
0:48:29 > 0:48:31Yoga's everywhere.
0:48:31 > 0:48:36There are lots of schools teaching people how to teach yoga.
0:48:36 > 0:48:39So what you're essentially wanting us to invest in
0:48:39 > 0:48:41- is a franchise model.- Yes.
0:48:41 > 0:48:43I'm trying to get my head round it.
0:48:43 > 0:48:45- So once somebody pays a fee...- Yes.
0:48:45 > 0:48:48..which you said now is £3,000?
0:48:48 > 0:48:51The initial fee is now £4,500.
0:48:51 > 0:48:54But the annual fee is around £50 per month.
0:48:54 > 0:48:57It's quite a lot of money, though.
0:48:57 > 0:48:59- Yoga is something you can do at home.- Absolutely, yes.
0:48:59 > 0:49:02So, I'm just trying to see...
0:49:02 > 0:49:04how this turns into a much bigger business.
0:49:04 > 0:49:06We have 300 territories in the UK.
0:49:06 > 0:49:09And each of our teachers has a set geographical territory
0:49:09 > 0:49:11of 200,000.
0:49:11 > 0:49:15And they can purchase further territories as they wish to expand.
0:49:15 > 0:49:18So, in the UK, what's your geographic spread?
0:49:18 > 0:49:21We have lots in Scotland, lots in Northern Ireland,
0:49:21 > 0:49:23and down south, in London.
0:49:23 > 0:49:26The only person we have in the middle of the country is in Hull.
0:49:26 > 0:49:30- PIERS:- You said that you've got teachers all over the world.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33Do you mean 60 in the UK and one in Dubai or something?
0:49:33 > 0:49:35What's your global footprint?
0:49:35 > 0:49:39We have two in Sweden, one in Korea, one in Dubai, one in Cyprus,
0:49:39 > 0:49:41- one about to start in San Francisco. - OK.
0:49:41 > 0:49:44So it's quite international, then?
0:49:44 > 0:49:48Yes. And someone is about to sign up this week from Latvia.
0:49:48 > 0:49:53I have a fairly big franchise and I know some of the issues with it,
0:49:53 > 0:49:56but I also know how fast it can grow.
0:49:56 > 0:49:57Yes.
0:49:57 > 0:50:00Um...why haven't I heard of you?
0:50:01 > 0:50:02I don't know!
0:50:02 > 0:50:06Um, we have... I mean, I've only been training other teachers for two years.
0:50:06 > 0:50:09So it has all happened within two years.
0:50:09 > 0:50:14Um...we rank the first page on Google for pregnancy yoga,
0:50:14 > 0:50:16antenatal yoga
0:50:16 > 0:50:18and postnatal yoga,
0:50:18 > 0:50:19so if you happened to be pregnant
0:50:19 > 0:50:23and you were looking for one of those classes, you'd find us on the first page.
0:50:25 > 0:50:28So far, it's been a composed performance from Cheryl and Mike.
0:50:28 > 0:50:33Peter Jones is curious to discover more about their background.
0:50:35 > 0:50:37Have you ever done something like this before?
0:50:37 > 0:50:39No, this is my first business,
0:50:39 > 0:50:43but I did international business and modern languages at uni.
0:50:43 > 0:50:47I actually have number dyslexia, so I really struggle with the accounts and the figures.
0:50:47 > 0:50:50So I focus really on the training and the marketing side of things
0:50:50 > 0:50:54and Mike has kindly taken care of the figures for me.
0:50:54 > 0:50:56How much money have you put into the business?
0:50:56 > 0:50:58- Nothing.- Nothing.
0:50:58 > 0:51:02We didn't have to put anything in initially, because I did everything.
0:51:02 > 0:51:04How much has the business got in today?
0:51:04 > 0:51:0740,000, probably, in cash.
0:51:09 > 0:51:13- PIERS:- So you've got a business studies degree, you're rolling out a franchise programme,
0:51:13 > 0:51:16you know all the ins and outs, you've got 40K in the bank...
0:51:16 > 0:51:18Why are you here?
0:51:18 > 0:51:20As much as the money would be absolutely fabulous,
0:51:20 > 0:51:25the main reason we're here is to gain from your fantastic business experience.
0:51:25 > 0:51:28To have that kind of experience within the organisation,
0:51:28 > 0:51:30we could grow more efficiently, faster.
0:51:30 > 0:51:35You know, looking at cutting costs and just making everything better.
0:51:35 > 0:51:37I'm not convinced you need anybody's help.
0:51:41 > 0:51:42I think we do!
0:51:46 > 0:51:49Cheryl and Mike's modesty is charming the Dragons.
0:51:51 > 0:51:52But could their business
0:51:52 > 0:51:55be in danger of becoming a victim of its own success,
0:51:55 > 0:51:58especially in the light of their recent decision
0:51:58 > 0:52:00to increase their franchise fees?
0:52:03 > 0:52:09I have an opinion about the future profitability.
0:52:09 > 0:52:12I think you're going to struggle, charging £4,500.
0:52:12 > 0:52:16And I think you're going to now start to see a massive slowdown,
0:52:16 > 0:52:21and I think you'll then end up reversing that model back to how you started so successfully,
0:52:21 > 0:52:26which means that I don't believe that you'll achieve the 76K
0:52:26 > 0:52:28net profit.
0:52:28 > 0:52:30Do you agree with what Peter said?
0:52:30 > 0:52:34Actually, no, because we've never actually been so busy since we put the prices up.
0:52:34 > 0:52:35We've had more enquiries.
0:52:35 > 0:52:39When I started my school, teaching school,
0:52:39 > 0:52:42I thought it was very expensive, what I was charging people for a week
0:52:42 > 0:52:44to fly in from all over the world.
0:52:44 > 0:52:47But there was a point at which I had to put the price up.
0:52:47 > 0:52:49But if people really wanted it
0:52:49 > 0:52:53and they were serious, they would fly over and do the school and pay the money.
0:52:53 > 0:52:57By putting up the price, we're hoping we'll attract a more serious teacher
0:52:57 > 0:53:01who will want to teach more, and then our income will increase.
0:53:04 > 0:53:07There are clearly mixed views in the Den about the price hike.
0:53:07 > 0:53:10But will Cheryl and Mike's staunch defence of it
0:53:10 > 0:53:13be enough to convince a sceptical Peter Jones?
0:53:16 > 0:53:18I think you're going to struggle selling it at the top end.
0:53:18 > 0:53:21As an investor, for 50K,
0:53:21 > 0:53:23it's not something that I think
0:53:23 > 0:53:25I can make a decent return out of.
0:53:25 > 0:53:27So I'm going to say I'm out,
0:53:27 > 0:53:30- but wish you the best of luck. - Thank you very much, Peter.
0:53:33 > 0:53:37- PIERS:- Mike, Cheryl, I think you've got a very nice little business.
0:53:37 > 0:53:40And the problem is, I think it's going to stay that way.
0:53:40 > 0:53:41Right, OK.
0:53:41 > 0:53:46Little in terms of the grand scheme of things, in terms of scale.
0:53:46 > 0:53:48On that basis alone,
0:53:48 > 0:53:51congratulations, best of luck,
0:53:51 > 0:53:54- but I'm out.- Thanks very much.
0:53:55 > 0:53:58- DEBORAH:- I completely disagree with that.
0:53:58 > 0:54:00I think you've got a very scalable business here.
0:54:00 > 0:54:02I think you are really, really onto something,
0:54:02 > 0:54:04but it would be wrong of me
0:54:04 > 0:54:06to get involved with you and let you down
0:54:06 > 0:54:08because I wasn't going to give you the time
0:54:08 > 0:54:11that I think you've actually clearly indicated you want.
0:54:11 > 0:54:14- Yes.- So that is my absolutely only reason.
0:54:14 > 0:54:18- So I won't be investing. I'm out. - Thank you very much.
0:54:19 > 0:54:21I think you've got a great model there
0:54:21 > 0:54:23and I think you could create garments
0:54:23 > 0:54:25and on the back of the brand,
0:54:25 > 0:54:28create nice yoga mats and all the rest of it.
0:54:28 > 0:54:31It's not something that I feel that I could invest in
0:54:31 > 0:54:34and give you the time to do what you need.
0:54:34 > 0:54:36So I wish you luck,
0:54:36 > 0:54:38but I'm afraid I'm out.
0:54:38 > 0:54:40- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:54:43 > 0:54:45Despite a promising initial pitch,
0:54:45 > 0:54:48Cheryl and Mike's chances of securing an investment
0:54:48 > 0:54:50appear to be slipping away.
0:54:52 > 0:54:55Will Duncan Bannatyne be prepared to offer the couple
0:54:55 > 0:54:57the financial lifeline they asked for?
0:54:59 > 0:55:01I don't think you need a Dragon on board.
0:55:09 > 0:55:11But you've told me you do.
0:55:12 > 0:55:13Yeah!
0:55:13 > 0:55:15This is a no-brainer for me.
0:55:15 > 0:55:17So I'm going to offer you all the money -
0:55:17 > 0:55:18£50,000...
0:55:19 > 0:55:21..for 35%.
0:55:26 > 0:55:28- Can I talk to Mike?- Certainly.
0:55:33 > 0:55:35THEY WHISPER
0:55:39 > 0:55:41We love the offer.
0:55:41 > 0:55:45Would you go for 20% for 50...?
0:55:51 > 0:55:53Sometimes in life,
0:55:53 > 0:55:55there's an opportunity, and you have to grab the opportunity
0:55:55 > 0:55:57when it's there.
0:55:57 > 0:55:58My offer stays -
0:55:58 > 0:56:01£50,000...
0:56:01 > 0:56:02for 35%.
0:56:09 > 0:56:10Would you...?
0:56:10 > 0:56:15Would you consider, if once you get your money back, dropping down to 20%?
0:56:28 > 0:56:29Yeah, I'd go for that.
0:56:31 > 0:56:34- Yeah?- Yeah.- That would be fantastic. - OK.
0:56:34 > 0:56:35Well done.
0:56:35 > 0:56:36APPLAUSE
0:56:36 > 0:56:40- Thank you very much!- Thank you. Thanks, Mike.- Thank you very much. - No problem.
0:56:40 > 0:56:43Thank you very much. Thanks for your time.
0:56:46 > 0:56:48So, success for Cheryl and Mike,
0:56:48 > 0:56:51who, after some tense negotiations,
0:56:51 > 0:56:55leave the Den with a healthy £50,000 investment
0:56:55 > 0:56:58and the Dragon expertise that they were seeking.
0:57:04 > 0:57:06Oh, my God!
0:57:06 > 0:57:09I'm just completely shocked. I'm completely overwhelmed.
0:57:09 > 0:57:11We're just so happy
0:57:11 > 0:57:13that the Dragons were so positive
0:57:13 > 0:57:15and that Duncan's invested.
0:57:15 > 0:57:17- That's brilliant!- I know!
0:57:17 > 0:57:20I'm still taking it in, really.
0:57:20 > 0:57:22We're just really, really happy and excited
0:57:22 > 0:57:24about the opportunities to come.
0:57:35 > 0:57:37So we see that, as always,
0:57:37 > 0:57:39some sound financial projections
0:57:39 > 0:57:42and a carefully thought-out business model go a long way
0:57:42 > 0:57:44in getting the attention of a Dragon.
0:57:46 > 0:57:49But there's nothing like a bit of good karma thrown in
0:57:49 > 0:57:50to seal the deal.
0:57:50 > 0:57:53The conversation about all of tonight's pitches
0:57:53 > 0:57:56continues on Twitter, using the hashtag...
0:57:56 > 0:57:59Next week in the Den...
0:58:01 > 0:58:03This is not a product that we actually need.
0:58:03 > 0:58:05It'd be a waste of my money to invest.
0:58:05 > 0:58:08I think it's completely unviable,
0:58:08 > 0:58:10unworkable,
0:58:10 > 0:58:11uninvestable...
0:58:11 > 0:58:14The core of this business is you.
0:58:14 > 0:58:17And I am struggling with it.
0:58:18 > 0:58:21Love the product. I'm afraid your valuation's killed it.
0:58:21 > 0:58:26Do you know what, when I ask you what your turnover's going to be,
0:58:26 > 0:58:30it's a lot better if you tell me what your turnover's going to be.
0:58:38 > 0:58:40Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd