0:00:02 > 0:00:04- You are deluded.- It doesn't matter what the business is,
0:00:04 > 0:00:06it's my return that matters.
0:00:06 > 0:00:07I would want 40%.
0:00:07 > 0:00:11- Would you invest in it? - I'm irritated.- I'm out.
0:00:27 > 0:00:29These are the Dragons.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32Wealthy, well-connected,
0:00:32 > 0:00:34innovative
0:00:34 > 0:00:36and influential.
0:00:36 > 0:00:39Each week, they make or break the dreams
0:00:39 > 0:00:42of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:44 > 0:00:49In the Den, leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53Telecoms giant Peter Jones.
0:00:54 > 0:00:58Hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne.
0:00:58 > 0:01:02Founder of her own global interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen.
0:01:02 > 0:01:07And Cloud computing expert and former city financier, Piers Linney.
0:01:08 > 0:01:11With thousands to lose, but millions to gain,
0:01:11 > 0:01:15the Dragons are prepared to fight for that next shrewd investment.
0:01:17 > 0:01:19In the last decade,
0:01:19 > 0:01:21over 900 entrepreneurs have faced the Dragons,
0:01:21 > 0:01:25and investment offers of £14.5 million
0:01:25 > 0:01:27have been made in this room.
0:01:27 > 0:01:30To face them takes nerve and vision,
0:01:30 > 0:01:32so who will leave with the Dragons' money?
0:01:40 > 0:01:43Welcome back to Dragons' Den,
0:01:43 > 0:01:46where a fresh batch of cash-hungry entrepreneurs
0:01:46 > 0:01:49are readying themselves for the elevator pitch of a lifetime.
0:01:49 > 0:01:52Coming up on tonight's show...
0:01:52 > 0:01:56- It's taken you to the edge, hasn't it?- Yes.
0:01:56 > 0:01:58If I start becoming a regular,
0:01:58 > 0:02:01I'll learn how to throw a girl in the air?
0:02:02 > 0:02:04What just happened?
0:02:04 > 0:02:09I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that is hideous.
0:02:09 > 0:02:10Buh-buh-buh-buh!
0:02:10 > 0:02:12LAUGHTER
0:02:12 > 0:02:14Do you want a job?
0:02:18 > 0:02:21First into the den is Scott Cupid.
0:02:21 > 0:02:23He was a banker,
0:02:23 > 0:02:27but decided to swap his job for something with a little more swing.
0:02:27 > 0:02:30Ready to have fun? Yeah?
0:02:30 > 0:02:32Can you believe this?
0:02:33 > 0:02:36SWING MUSIC PLAYS
0:03:07 > 0:03:09Hi, Dragons. Thanks for your time.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12My name is Scott, I'm here to tell you about Swing Patrol.
0:03:12 > 0:03:18We'd like to offer 10% equity and we'd like to ask for £65,000.
0:03:18 > 0:03:20So, what is Swing Patrol?
0:03:20 > 0:03:22It's the biggest swing dance school in the world.
0:03:22 > 0:03:26We have 1,200 students a week, we operate in 27 venues
0:03:26 > 0:03:30across London, we have a very talented award-winning teaching team.
0:03:30 > 0:03:32And we have momentum and growth.
0:03:32 > 0:03:37We run a festival, the annual London Swing Festival, we run competitions,
0:03:37 > 0:03:41we run a lot of big social dances, we do corporate entertainment.
0:03:41 > 0:03:44We provide a lot of dancers, we have two great troupes,
0:03:44 > 0:03:46it's a very immersive experience, vintage DJs,
0:03:46 > 0:03:50the whole thing you might require under a swing umbrella.
0:03:50 > 0:03:54We would love you to do a two-minute lesson with me.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57It'll be fun, it'll be easy. You may even learn a step.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59What do you say?
0:03:59 > 0:04:03- I'm up for it.- I'm going to come and dance.- All right. Hit it, Mr Music.
0:04:03 > 0:04:06Five, six, five, six...
0:04:06 > 0:04:10A pitch with a spring in its step from Scott Cupid, who is seeking
0:04:10 > 0:04:16£65,000 in return for a 10% share in his swing dance business.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19Thanks, Mr Music Man. Thank you, Dragons, for jumping in.
0:04:19 > 0:04:20We appreciate it.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26Deborah Meaden, who recently swapped the boardroom for the ballroom,
0:04:26 > 0:04:28gets straight down to business.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33That was fun. Let's look at the business.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35I think you called yourself
0:04:35 > 0:04:38the biggest swing dance school in the world.
0:04:38 > 0:04:42- Yes.- Um...how does that turn into cash?
0:04:42 > 0:04:47Well, the revenue has had a steady growth over the last five years.
0:04:47 > 0:04:51It started at perhaps 36,000, then it's gone up to 84,000,
0:04:51 > 0:04:58120,000, 180,000, 210,000, and the last financial period was £280,000.
0:04:58 > 0:05:01- The gross profit has reached £190,000.- And net profit?
0:05:03 > 0:05:05This year it was 67,000.
0:05:05 > 0:05:07It's had a solid growth
0:05:07 > 0:05:10and all the projections are it should continue to grow.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12So how does it work?
0:05:12 > 0:05:14It's like a Zumba, really, in terms of the model.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16I mean, that's not really dance.
0:05:16 > 0:05:18We wouldn't pretend to be as big as a Zumba
0:05:18 > 0:05:21- because they are so massive. - But that's where you'd like to go.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23It's the same joy, they've really done something clever.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25When people come to a Swing Patrol class,
0:05:25 > 0:05:28they're interacting with people, they've been online all day,
0:05:28 > 0:05:31here's your chance in one class, you'll interact with 30 or 40 people.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34I know, it's an art form, so it's not going to go anywhere.
0:05:34 > 0:05:36But the interest levels in it might.
0:05:36 > 0:05:38I've been involved for 15 years
0:05:38 > 0:05:41and I've been told for 15 years that it's about to die out.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44And all I've seen is it continue to grow.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46I think, as long as we keep pushing it,
0:05:46 > 0:05:48we're keeping it in people's mind.
0:05:48 > 0:05:51I can't express how much I really enjoyed that.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54- I didn't want it to end. It was fantastic.- Thanks.
0:05:54 > 0:05:56Have you tried this in health clubs?
0:05:56 > 0:05:58Zumba's been great, no doubt about it.
0:05:58 > 0:06:00But we do think there's room for something new.
0:06:00 > 0:06:04We have this fitness programme called the Charleston Challenge.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07It's high-energy, it's good exercise, it's great music, but it's a secret.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09Again, we haven't done it very well,
0:06:09 > 0:06:11we certainly haven't put it through a chain or anything.
0:06:11 > 0:06:16If I start becoming a regular, I'll learn how to throw a girl in the air?
0:06:16 > 0:06:20- In time, yes. Absolutely.- How long will that take?- A couple of months.
0:06:20 > 0:06:23Are you up for that, Deborah? You and me, in there.
0:06:23 > 0:06:25I'd like to see you practise with someone else
0:06:25 > 0:06:27before you throw me in the air.
0:06:31 > 0:06:34Deborah Meaden is keeping her feet firmly on the ground.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39And a pragmatic approach is also being adopted
0:06:39 > 0:06:41by telecoms tycoon Peter Jones.
0:06:45 > 0:06:48The issue that really hits me straightaway is
0:06:48 > 0:06:50how do you build this into a business
0:06:50 > 0:06:52that can make a lot of money?
0:06:52 > 0:06:55These sell-out events, it's just been incredible,
0:06:55 > 0:06:59the last 8 to 12 months, that we are sadly turning people away.
0:06:59 > 0:07:02Part of that is, if we just had a swing club with a bit more room,
0:07:02 > 0:07:06that we could have the same events on Friday and Saturday nights,
0:07:06 > 0:07:10we could almost prove to the Dragons that we can do it elsewhere as well.
0:07:10 > 0:07:11And is there such a location
0:07:11 > 0:07:14that you could get that isn't ridiculously expensive?
0:07:14 > 0:07:18The one we have in mind is about 35,000 square feet.
0:07:18 > 0:07:22- What is the rental of that building? What would it cost you?- £50,000.
0:07:22 > 0:07:25But you'd have to fit it out, this is an old warehouse.
0:07:25 > 0:07:27And what is the cost of that?
0:07:27 > 0:07:31According to the people we've met, the contractors, about £15,000.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33It needs to be a sprung dance floor.
0:07:33 > 0:07:37Of course, we'd require security, we'd require a bar...
0:07:37 > 0:07:40You mentioned a bar, you're not thinking of putting alcohol in it?
0:07:40 > 0:07:44- Yes.- That changes the landscape quite considerably.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47We'd like to think of this ballroom being a multipurpose room.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50It would be a place where you could do fitness things
0:07:50 > 0:07:52and so forth, and we want it to be almost 24/7.
0:07:54 > 0:07:58The details of Scott's planned warehouse conversion
0:07:58 > 0:08:01have set alarm bells ringing amongst the Dragons.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04Kelly Hoppen is quick to voice concern
0:08:04 > 0:08:08over his optimistic estimate of the potential cost.
0:08:09 > 0:08:12I can tell you, being in the building business,
0:08:12 > 0:08:16and design business, there is no way you could do that for £15,000.
0:08:16 > 0:08:19And I'm not sure that your model's right.
0:08:19 > 0:08:21I'm just trying to get my head around it.
0:08:21 > 0:08:25But having said that, if you have the whole thing done,
0:08:25 > 0:08:27that becomes your franchise model.
0:08:27 > 0:08:30Which will be easier to then sell.
0:08:30 > 0:08:33My hope is that we could talk a Dragon into being involved in
0:08:33 > 0:08:35one of them and then showing you how successful it was
0:08:35 > 0:08:38and then that could be done somewhere else quite easily,
0:08:38 > 0:08:39because we've done it once.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44Scott, I'll tell you where I am.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47I think, if you had come in and pitched yourself trying to create
0:08:47 > 0:08:50you know, the Zumba of swing, that's potentially interesting.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53Retrenching into a venue and opening a nightclub,
0:08:53 > 0:08:56no matter what happens there, it doesn't work for me.
0:08:56 > 0:08:59- Best of luck, I may come down one night.- You'd be very welcome.
0:08:59 > 0:09:01I'm out.
0:09:02 > 0:09:04Despite a promising start,
0:09:04 > 0:09:09Scott's prospects of securing an investment have taken a serious hit.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13Will Deborah Meaden also be turned off by the direction
0:09:13 > 0:09:16he wants to take the business?
0:09:16 > 0:09:19The whole venue thing worries me, honestly.
0:09:19 > 0:09:23And if you are wedded to that, it worries me enough to say...
0:09:23 > 0:09:26- I'm not, Deborah.- I was going to say, we need to stop the conversation.
0:09:26 > 0:09:30If there was a chance a Dragon thought Swing Patrol was something viable,
0:09:30 > 0:09:33I'd give you a commitment that I'd walk away from this idea.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39An ability to think on his feet, rather than dance with them,
0:09:39 > 0:09:42appears to have saved Scott from disaster.
0:09:42 > 0:09:45But will his swift change of direction have swung
0:09:45 > 0:09:48the remaining Dragons in his favour?
0:09:50 > 0:09:54You're obviously quite flexible in how you would carry it forward.
0:09:54 > 0:09:56I love it, so I'm going to make you an offer.
0:09:59 > 0:10:03I'm going to offer you half the money. I'd want 10%.
0:10:06 > 0:10:07Thank you for your offer.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16I'm an exercise freak, I run or train everyday,
0:10:16 > 0:10:20I love to dance, and I think that there is definitely
0:10:20 > 0:10:24a business model here that could be rolled out.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27I'd like to offer you half the money for 10%.
0:10:27 > 0:10:30Because I think there are lots of good brains in this room
0:10:30 > 0:10:33and I think that we can all offer something different.
0:10:33 > 0:10:37- And will you let me throw you up in the air?- Yes.- Hey!
0:10:41 > 0:10:46Two enthusiastic offers from Kelly Hoppen and Duncan Bannatyne.
0:10:46 > 0:10:51Will Peter Jones also be prepared to supply the cash needed
0:10:51 > 0:10:53to elevate Scott's business?
0:10:53 > 0:10:56Scott, I think it's clearly...
0:10:56 > 0:10:59It's wonderful, everything about it is great.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02You'd even like that we all wear stripy socks in the Lindy Hop world,
0:11:02 > 0:11:05- did you know that? - Do you?- Every one of us, yes.
0:11:05 > 0:11:09- So I'm in fashion? - You are, yes.- Finally!
0:11:10 > 0:11:13You know, I think I'm a bit young to go on Strictly just yet.
0:11:13 > 0:11:19So I'll hold that opportunity. And I hope it might come in years to come.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22But I think that...
0:11:23 > 0:11:26You've got some incredible offers.
0:11:26 > 0:11:28So I'm going to say I'm out,
0:11:28 > 0:11:30but I wish you the very best of luck, Scott.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35Four Dragons have now declared their positions.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39And with two offers already on the table,
0:11:39 > 0:11:45it's time for Strictly Come Dancing contestant, Deborah Meaden, to have her say.
0:11:46 > 0:11:48I've often said to people, you know,
0:11:48 > 0:11:52- loving something doesn't make it a good investment.- Sure.
0:11:52 > 0:11:54And that sometimes you have to take a back step and say,
0:11:54 > 0:11:57because I love it, I can't see a clear picture.
0:11:57 > 0:12:00But what I like about you is your credibility and your history.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03- Fair enough. - So I'm going to make you an offer.
0:12:03 > 0:12:07- Thank you.- And I'm going to offer you all of the money.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12But I want 20% of the business.
0:12:14 > 0:12:17I need a couple of minutes, if that's OK. Just one or two.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46I've built this on a real passion for dance.
0:12:46 > 0:12:50- So I think I'm going to accept Deborah's offer.- Thank you.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53Well, now I'm allowed to be excited.
0:12:53 > 0:12:58Brilliant. There we are. You know, and that was my head over my heart.
0:12:58 > 0:13:02But now I'm allowing my heart to get excited. Brilliant.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06So, Scott waltzes out of the Den
0:13:06 > 0:13:11having secured both the £65,000 investment he was seeking
0:13:11 > 0:13:15and the backing of self-confessed dance nut, Deborah Meaden.
0:13:15 > 0:13:19Oh, goodness! I can't believe it, it's so amazing.
0:13:22 > 0:13:24It's a perfect fit, isn't it? It's all about timing.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26What, cos she's been in Strictly?
0:13:26 > 0:13:32Yes, honestly, Duncan, and I understand it for that reason.
0:13:32 > 0:13:33Just for that reason.
0:13:47 > 0:13:52Next into the Den, a Lincolnshire couple, John and Claire Brumby.
0:13:52 > 0:13:55Crisps are one of the nation's favourite snacks.
0:13:55 > 0:13:57We munch our way through
0:13:57 > 0:13:59an astonishing 6 billion packets every year.
0:14:01 > 0:14:04John and Claire believe their low-fat vegetable crisps
0:14:04 > 0:14:07are a perfect fit for these health-conscious times.
0:14:07 > 0:14:09But will the Dragons bite?
0:14:16 > 0:14:20Hello, Dragons. I'm Claire. And this is my husband John.
0:14:20 > 0:14:25We are here today to ask for £75,000 in return for 15% equity
0:14:25 > 0:14:29in our business, Scrubbys Vegetable Crisps.
0:14:29 > 0:14:32Our crisps are at least 30% less fat
0:14:32 > 0:14:35and 18% less calories than standard fried vegetable crisps.
0:14:35 > 0:14:37They are also gluten-free.
0:14:37 > 0:14:42We launched Scrubbys in May 2012 with the intention of bringing
0:14:42 > 0:14:44a healthier snacking option to the market.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47And we are on a mission to bring healthier snacking to the masses.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51The UK snacking market is ever growing and is currently worth
0:14:51 > 0:14:56£3.3 billion, with the crisp sector worth £930 million.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59We've got some great high-profile listings to date,
0:14:59 > 0:15:02namely Harrods, Fortnum and Mason and Partridges.
0:15:03 > 0:15:07Our crisps have been awarded a gold star at the Great Taste Awards
0:15:07 > 0:15:10and Scrubbys has been named a cool brand.
0:15:10 > 0:15:13We have secured a listing with the online supermarket Ocado.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17And we are also launching into circa 200 Waitrose stores
0:15:17 > 0:15:19in the "free-from" section.
0:15:21 > 0:15:25A low-key pitch from John and Claire Brumby,
0:15:25 > 0:15:27who are looking for £75,000
0:15:27 > 0:15:31in exchange for 15% of their business.
0:15:31 > 0:15:33In a saturated market,
0:15:33 > 0:15:37Deborah Meaden wants to find out more about their competition.
0:15:40 > 0:15:42So, Claire, John,
0:15:42 > 0:15:46what other products are there in this marketplace?
0:15:46 > 0:15:48Because there's quite a lot of
0:15:48 > 0:15:52- vegetable-type crisp products around, aren't there?- There are.
0:15:52 > 0:15:56Apart from ours, all the other vegetable crisps on the market
0:15:56 > 0:16:00are standard fried, whereas we use a unique technique.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03They're fried at a much lower temperature, below 130 degrees,
0:16:03 > 0:16:07whereas standard frying is approximately 180 degrees.
0:16:07 > 0:16:13- How big is that bit of the market? - The regular, standard fry?
0:16:13 > 0:16:18That's massive. The biggest company, I think they sold for 100 million.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21So, has this ship already sailed?
0:16:21 > 0:16:23In terms of the mass market?
0:16:24 > 0:16:25Not at all.
0:16:25 > 0:16:30We don't believe so, because of the more health-conscious consumer,
0:16:30 > 0:16:33we believe that we'll be giving a product that has
0:16:33 > 0:16:34all the fantastic flavours.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37But you don't get the greasy aftertaste on your fingers
0:16:37 > 0:16:39or on the roof of your mouth when you've eaten the product.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42You're right, they are very nice, actually.
0:16:42 > 0:16:45Often, when you do get a lower fat in a healthier snack,
0:16:45 > 0:16:47sometimes you compromise on the taste.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49So we wanted to still retain the taste,
0:16:49 > 0:16:51but we also wanted to get a healthier fat,
0:16:51 > 0:16:54which is why we settled on this cooking method - vacuum frying.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58I know you're saying it's different because of the way it's made,
0:16:58 > 0:17:00but how difficult is it going to be,
0:17:00 > 0:17:02without a huge amount of money into marketing,
0:17:02 > 0:17:05to be able to get the message across?
0:17:05 > 0:17:08We've done lots of markets, we've done lots of festivals,
0:17:08 > 0:17:10and people come to us and tell us
0:17:10 > 0:17:13we love your crisps, they're not as greasy.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15And it's beautiful because you stand there
0:17:15 > 0:17:19and they tell you all your USPs. You don't even have to say anything.
0:17:20 > 0:17:22These passionate entrepreneurs believe
0:17:22 > 0:17:25they have a product that sells itself.
0:17:25 > 0:17:28But Duncan Bannatyne is eager to establish
0:17:28 > 0:17:31whether current sales support the hype.
0:17:33 > 0:17:36What's your turnover been like, financially?
0:17:36 > 0:17:38Year one, obviously it was just a part year,
0:17:38 > 0:17:44- we only had one product, and we sold £20,000 worth.- £20,000 worth?- Yes.
0:17:44 > 0:17:49Year two was 75. And this year we're projecting 320,000 sales.
0:17:49 > 0:17:53How are you jumping from 75,000 to 320?
0:17:53 > 0:17:56Because we are launching two other products this year and we've also got
0:17:56 > 0:18:00the Ocado listing coming on board and the Waitrose listing.
0:18:00 > 0:18:02You've done very well.
0:18:02 > 0:18:05- Thank you.- How much money have you put into this?
0:18:05 > 0:18:07Physically about £20,000.
0:18:07 > 0:18:09We took £15,000 out of our house
0:18:09 > 0:18:12and we got a loan from a family member for £5,000.
0:18:12 > 0:18:14You own 100% of shares between you?
0:18:14 > 0:18:17- No, we've got 75%. - Who's got the other 25?
0:18:17 > 0:18:20One gentleman's got 10% and another gentleman's got 15%.
0:18:20 > 0:18:26- What did they put into the business? - Combined, they've put in £50,000.
0:18:26 > 0:18:28They've put in 50, you've put in 20,
0:18:28 > 0:18:31so there's £70,000 been spent on it.
0:18:31 > 0:18:35We've also had a loan from the Hull and Humber Business Development Fund for £50,000.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38The £50,000, do you have to pay that back?
0:18:38 > 0:18:40Yes. The Acorn Fund.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44We had the 50,000 from the Acorn, we had another 10,000 from Acorn
0:18:44 > 0:18:47and we had 15,000 from Finance Yorkshire.
0:18:47 > 0:18:48And how are you surviving now?
0:18:48 > 0:18:51Have you got other jobs or are you just doing this...?
0:18:51 > 0:18:54To be honest, three or four weeks ago, we just...
0:18:54 > 0:18:56We...we hit the wall.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59So I had to take a job.
0:18:59 > 0:19:02But we haven't given up, hence being stood here today.
0:19:04 > 0:19:06It's written all over Claire's face.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12- It's taken you to the edge, hasn't it?- Yes.
0:19:12 > 0:19:17- You've gone back to work.- Yes. - To support your family.- Yes.
0:19:18 > 0:19:21Three children, you've got to, haven't you?
0:19:21 > 0:19:24The reason we didn't have any money was because we did get
0:19:24 > 0:19:27some personal debt, so we've been climbing ourselves out of that.
0:19:27 > 0:19:31That's why we couldn't get a bank to help us or anything.
0:19:31 > 0:19:35You've got a dream. You've got a business.
0:19:36 > 0:19:40- But you're broke.- Yes.
0:19:42 > 0:19:46We're not going to give in, you know, we're going to build the brand
0:19:46 > 0:19:48and it's going to be a fantastic brand.
0:19:52 > 0:19:57Could John and Claire's complex financial situation spell disaster
0:19:57 > 0:19:59for their initially strong pitch?
0:20:01 > 0:20:06Deborah Meaden and Piers Linney have reached their conclusions.
0:20:06 > 0:20:09It's quite hard, this one, we're trying to work out
0:20:09 > 0:20:11whether it's a business you want to invest in,
0:20:11 > 0:20:14as opposed to help someone with their personal finances.
0:20:14 > 0:20:16I know probably everyone says this to you
0:20:16 > 0:20:20and you hear this every single day 100 times over.
0:20:20 > 0:20:22But there's no way we're going to stop.
0:20:27 > 0:20:31I still think that the ship has sailed slightly on this one.
0:20:31 > 0:20:36I just don't think it's going to scale the way you think it might.
0:20:39 > 0:20:40- I'm out.- Thank you.
0:20:42 > 0:20:47I see the pressure on this business from every single side.
0:20:47 > 0:20:52So, as a business decision, I won't be making you an offer.
0:20:52 > 0:20:54So I'm out.
0:20:54 > 0:20:55Thank you.
0:20:58 > 0:21:02Two Dragons have walked away from a deal.
0:21:02 > 0:21:05Will Duncan Bannatyne be any more willing
0:21:05 > 0:21:08to take a chance on John and Claire?
0:21:10 > 0:21:13There's a huge risk here for an investor, I think.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15So I'm not going to risk £75,000.
0:21:18 > 0:21:20But I am going to make you an offer.
0:21:21 > 0:21:26I'm going to offer you have the money, £37,500 for 12.5%.
0:21:28 > 0:21:29OK, thank you.
0:21:33 > 0:21:37Remember, the rules of the Den state that entrepreneurs must get
0:21:37 > 0:21:41all the money they've asked for or they get nothing at all.
0:21:41 > 0:21:44Time for Kelly Hoppen to have her say.
0:21:44 > 0:21:47Part of me is sitting here with my heart
0:21:47 > 0:21:50and then there's the business side of me.
0:21:50 > 0:21:57But I can't sit in this chair and make a commitment to you
0:21:57 > 0:21:59that I can make this work
0:21:59 > 0:22:01if I don't honestly think that I can.
0:22:05 > 0:22:06So...
0:22:08 > 0:22:11..it's with sadness, but I'm afraid I'm out.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13OK, thank you.
0:22:15 > 0:22:19Four Dragons have now declared their positions.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22John and Claire's chances of securing the cash injection
0:22:22 > 0:22:24their business so desperately needs
0:22:24 > 0:22:27now rest with Peter Jones.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37Duncan, can I ask you how hard you're going to work on this investment?
0:22:39 > 0:22:44I'll put in whatever effort I need to put in, Peter.
0:22:46 > 0:22:47And I'm sure you will as well.
0:22:50 > 0:22:51That's me doing it, then.
0:22:51 > 0:22:54LAUGHTER
0:22:54 > 0:22:55- Um...- We'll do all the work.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13What's the £60,000 you owe to Acorn? When was it taken out?
0:23:13 > 0:23:16February 2012.
0:23:19 > 0:23:23- And the other one, the £15,000? - 15, yes, from Finance Yorkshire.
0:23:26 > 0:23:30- And Finance Yorkshire gave you that over what term?- Five years.
0:23:30 > 0:23:34- And when did they give it to you? - August 2012.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39OK, so that was your lifeline then.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58John, Claire, I'm sorry, I can't do it.
0:24:01 > 0:24:02It would be really wrong of me.
0:24:02 > 0:24:07It's going against everything that is right in my own business head,
0:24:07 > 0:24:10to do the deal, so I'm going to tell you unfortunately I'm out.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12OK, thank you.
0:24:14 > 0:24:19So, having just listened to Peter analysing the loans a bit more,
0:24:19 > 0:24:22I think Peter is right, I think the other Dragons are right,
0:24:22 > 0:24:25I think my heart led me rather than my head. And...
0:24:27 > 0:24:33- I wish you the best of luck, but I'm out.- OK, thank you.- Good luck.
0:24:35 > 0:24:40So, heartbreak for John and Claire, who leave the Den with nothing.
0:24:40 > 0:24:44They came close, but in the end none of the Dragons were prepared
0:24:44 > 0:24:48to stake their money on the couple's low-fat vegetable crisps.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51I thought initially that our passion and drive did come across,
0:24:51 > 0:24:54so it's disappointing not to have crossed the line.
0:24:54 > 0:24:57We're going to launch into the listings that we've got,
0:24:57 > 0:25:00it's just a shame we haven't got a Dragon to do that with us.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02However, we'll get through.
0:25:06 > 0:25:09- 'It doesn't work.'- It's your problem.- 'You're not selling them.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11- 'Why are you doing this?- I'm out.'
0:25:13 > 0:25:17Other entrepreneurs who tried and failed in the Den
0:25:17 > 0:25:19include former military man Phil Parsons
0:25:19 > 0:25:22was seeking £98,000
0:25:22 > 0:25:26in exchange for a 15% stake in his business...
0:25:26 > 0:25:27Oh, my God!
0:25:27 > 0:25:31..building and selling the ultimate boys' toy.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Deborah Meaden was keen to put Phil's replicable war machine
0:25:46 > 0:25:48through its paces.
0:25:48 > 0:25:49Can I do it in my heels?
0:25:49 > 0:25:51- Yes, you can do it with your heels. - Come on, then.
0:25:51 > 0:25:55- Just so you know, I've never quite got the hang of...- Left and right.
0:25:58 > 0:26:00Oh, I feel quite powerful in here.
0:26:02 > 0:26:04ENGINE FIRES UP
0:26:16 > 0:26:18Buh-buh-buh-buh!
0:26:21 > 0:26:22Oh!
0:26:25 > 0:26:28- That was great.- Very good. - Anyone else want a go?
0:26:28 > 0:26:31The dragons all enjoyed the ride,
0:26:31 > 0:26:37but Peter Jones was concerned by the product's lack of green credentials.
0:26:37 > 0:26:39I have a problem with it.
0:26:40 > 0:26:44- As it came in, all I got was a complete stench of pollution.- Yes.
0:26:44 > 0:26:46You should have come in here
0:26:46 > 0:26:49with an electric version of what you've just done.
0:26:49 > 0:26:51That's anathema to me.
0:26:51 > 0:26:55No, a tank has tracks and a big noisy engine.
0:26:55 > 0:26:58If you look at it, it looks like a tank, it works like a tank
0:26:58 > 0:27:00and to all intents and purposes,
0:27:00 > 0:27:02apart from the fact it's small, it is a tank.
0:27:04 > 0:27:08Phil viewed the authenticity of his product as a major selling point.
0:27:08 > 0:27:11But Kelly Hoppen disagreed.
0:27:11 > 0:27:15Do you know, the problem I've got is the fact that it has a gun on it.
0:27:15 > 0:27:18- Yes, it's a tank.- I have a bit of a problem with that
0:27:18 > 0:27:20in terms of kids using it.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22But it doesn't have to be a tank.
0:27:22 > 0:27:26We've had an inquiry from Tokyo, the Robot Restaurant,
0:27:26 > 0:27:29they want silver tops with a glass bubble on the top
0:27:29 > 0:27:31so they look like space buggies.
0:27:31 > 0:27:37I've sold them in Sweden, Germany, France, Spain, Cyprus has got seven,
0:27:37 > 0:27:39the King of Jordan has got two.
0:27:41 > 0:27:44His tanks may have a royal seal of approval,
0:27:44 > 0:27:48but with just 80 sold in the last seven years,
0:27:48 > 0:27:52Piers Linney was unconvinced that Phil had the traction
0:27:52 > 0:27:55to drive his product to a less regal audience.
0:27:55 > 0:28:00Are you the archetypal engineer that can't market?
0:28:00 > 0:28:01I know what marketing is.
0:28:01 > 0:28:04- Because I'm on a pension, I haven't got the money to do it.- No.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07Well, Duncan can tell you what it's like to be on a pension.
0:28:07 > 0:28:10Exactly the same, yes, I've probably got less than you
0:28:10 > 0:28:14because I missed some contributions to my National Insurance stamps.
0:28:14 > 0:28:18Phil believed that the Den's big guns could help him
0:28:18 > 0:28:20target a mass-market.
0:28:20 > 0:28:24But while the Dragons may have found his miniature tanks a lot of fun,
0:28:24 > 0:28:28none of them felt they were on track to becoming a big seller.
0:28:30 > 0:28:33Well done for serving your country for 22 years.
0:28:33 > 0:28:35That's something to be amazingly proud of
0:28:35 > 0:28:39and well done for creating something out of your passion.
0:28:39 > 0:28:43- Why am I being so nice?- Because you're staring down a barrel.- Yes.
0:28:43 > 0:28:45- Is that loaded?- I wish!
0:28:47 > 0:28:49Your biggest issue, as you said, is finance.
0:28:49 > 0:28:54Well, I'm not a financier and I'm not a bank.
0:28:54 > 0:28:58I'm here to make an investment. This isn't it. I'm out.
0:28:58 > 0:28:59Thank you.
0:29:04 > 0:29:10So far tonight, one entrepreneur has triumphed in the Den.
0:29:10 > 0:29:14It was just so crazy, I can barely believe it happened.
0:29:14 > 0:29:15I'm excited, so excited.
0:29:15 > 0:29:19Will any of these budding tycoons succeed in joining him?
0:29:19 > 0:29:23It's actually not a bad idea, I just can't bear the design.
0:29:24 > 0:29:27I'm not entirely sure what just happened.
0:29:34 > 0:29:36You want to sell to modern consumers?
0:29:36 > 0:29:39To people who may already be spoiled for choice
0:29:39 > 0:29:41in ways to spend their money?
0:29:41 > 0:29:43Well, one route is to offer something extra,
0:29:43 > 0:29:47a way for customers to customise their product.
0:29:47 > 0:29:49And that's what our next entrepreneur is doing.
0:29:58 > 0:29:59(Let's go.)
0:29:59 > 0:30:01OK. Come on, Matheson.
0:30:01 > 0:30:03Good girl.
0:30:03 > 0:30:04Ready?
0:30:05 > 0:30:07Are you excited?
0:30:07 > 0:30:09My tummy's hurting because I'm starving.
0:30:09 > 0:30:10Oh, I'm starving too.
0:30:10 > 0:30:11Ready?
0:30:13 > 0:30:14Let's do this, guys.
0:30:16 > 0:30:18Come on in.
0:30:18 > 0:30:19Let's go.
0:30:21 > 0:30:24Can you all sit down, take your shoes off and walk that way?
0:30:27 > 0:30:29Hello, Dragons.
0:30:29 > 0:30:32My name's Jennifer and I'm the founder and director of Skribbies.
0:30:32 > 0:30:35Today, I'm looking for a £60,000 investment
0:30:35 > 0:30:37for a 20% stake in my company.
0:30:38 > 0:30:41Dragons, I'd like to take you on a journey,
0:30:41 > 0:30:44a journey back to when you were a little dragon.
0:30:44 > 0:30:46A time when you would draw and colour in
0:30:46 > 0:30:48anything you could get your hands on.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51Fast forward to today and as you can see
0:30:51 > 0:30:52nothing's really changed.
0:30:52 > 0:30:56The freedom to be creative is a critical part of child learning and development
0:30:56 > 0:30:57and something Skribbies wants to be a part of
0:30:57 > 0:30:59in a fun and functional way.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01We've done this with our first product,
0:31:01 > 0:31:03which is a range of children's shoes
0:31:03 > 0:31:05that children can customise every day from new.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08As you can see, they can draw all over their shoes,
0:31:08 > 0:31:10then simply wipe it away...
0:31:10 > 0:31:12Draw, wipe, draw, simple as that.
0:31:12 > 0:31:14It's like a whiteboard on a shoe.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18Yesterday I found out that House of Fraser are giving us a concession
0:31:18 > 0:31:22and I'm meeting Selfridges and Fenwick this coming week.
0:31:23 > 0:31:25We've just been approached
0:31:25 > 0:31:28by France's largest shoe retailer to design an exclusive range
0:31:28 > 0:31:33and if the deal's successful will be worth in excess of £110,000.
0:31:33 > 0:31:35Thank you so much for your time today, Dragons.
0:31:35 > 0:31:38I would be happy to answer any questions that you might have.
0:31:38 > 0:31:39(Go.)
0:31:40 > 0:31:42Thank you very much.
0:31:42 > 0:31:44INDISTINCT WHISPERING
0:31:44 > 0:31:47A pitch with the cute factor from Jennifer Duthie,
0:31:47 > 0:31:53who is seeking £60,000 in return for a 20% stake in her business.
0:31:53 > 0:31:56Her draw and wipe children's shoes
0:31:56 > 0:32:00appear to have struck a chord with Den creative, Kelly Hoppen.
0:32:02 > 0:32:04- Fantastic pitch.- Thank you. - And I think,
0:32:04 > 0:32:07knowing when my kids were growing up, they were always
0:32:07 > 0:32:10- colouring in on everything.- Yes. - I have still got things to prove it.
0:32:10 > 0:32:14In terms of the shoe, have you designed it,
0:32:14 > 0:32:16or have you had a shoe manufacturer design it?
0:32:16 > 0:32:19I haven't designed them myself, but I did hire a footwear specialist
0:32:19 > 0:32:22who works with several other prestigious brands.
0:32:22 > 0:32:25We also went through about 18,
0:32:25 > 0:32:2920 months of design development wear testing,
0:32:29 > 0:32:33the product itself has gone through testing in independent laboratories.
0:32:33 > 0:32:36So it's been very important to us that creating
0:32:36 > 0:32:40not only a really cool, well-designed product, but something that is very comfortable.
0:32:40 > 0:32:44- In terms of where you think the brand can go...- Yes.
0:32:44 > 0:32:47..will it always be shoes, or would you go into something else?
0:32:47 > 0:32:51Um, I think certainly for the next couple of years, next two years,
0:32:51 > 0:32:52yes, will be footwear.
0:32:52 > 0:32:55But we would really love to use the monster characters,
0:32:55 > 0:32:57which are part of our brand and maybe have
0:32:57 > 0:32:59plush toys that children can customise
0:32:59 > 0:33:01and take the idea on to luggage, yes,
0:33:01 > 0:33:04pretty sure that, what you've drawn on your, er,
0:33:04 > 0:33:06on your Skribbies.
0:33:06 > 0:33:08- What does it say?- "Best Dragon."
0:33:08 > 0:33:09Luckily, it rubs off.
0:33:09 > 0:33:11LAUGHTER
0:33:14 > 0:33:15Like the idea,
0:33:15 > 0:33:18- but it's not new. Is it?- OK.
0:33:18 > 0:33:20- You've seen it before. I have. - Er, no.
0:33:20 > 0:33:22My kids do this on their shoes.
0:33:23 > 0:33:26- This material is not unique to you.- No, it's not.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31I'm just wondering, what is it that you think that you've got?
0:33:31 > 0:33:33- Sure.- Have you got something that
0:33:33 > 0:33:37you've registered that actually gives you the right to say,
0:33:37 > 0:33:40if somebody else copies you, you can protect against it?
0:33:40 > 0:33:43We have got a trademark on our logo granted
0:33:43 > 0:33:46and we have a design mark granted on the high top form of the shoe,
0:33:46 > 0:33:50but in terms of the material itself, there's nothing that we can, sort of, protect.
0:33:50 > 0:33:54Um, and I think for us, the threat of imitation is there, for sure.
0:33:54 > 0:33:59It's important for us to build our brand, it's always got to be a brand-led strategy for us
0:33:59 > 0:34:00and I think we're doing a good job.
0:34:00 > 0:34:04We are breaking down major UK retailer doors
0:34:04 > 0:34:06and abroad as well.
0:34:08 > 0:34:11Deals with department stores have helped convince Jennifer
0:34:11 > 0:34:14that her draw on children's shoes have legs.
0:34:16 > 0:34:20Piers Linney wants to establish exactly where Skribbies
0:34:20 > 0:34:22will sit in an already crowded market.
0:34:26 > 0:34:29- Shoe brands out there that lights up, ones with rollers in them.- Yes.
0:34:29 > 0:34:31And that's been done, it can be done.
0:34:31 > 0:34:34But where do you, sort of, compete on price compared to...
0:34:34 > 0:34:37- Um, in the UK...- ..things? - ..our recommended retail price
0:34:37 > 0:34:40is solidly mid-market for a brand of footwear,
0:34:40 > 0:34:42which shocked me when I got into this,
0:34:42 > 0:34:44because I thought I was going to sell shoes for £25.
0:34:44 > 0:34:47It's a particular market, isn't it? Because not everyone's spending
0:34:47 > 0:34:4840 quid on a pair of shoes.
0:34:48 > 0:34:51- I think for children.... - Well, they're not.- ..actually,
0:34:51 > 0:34:54a lot of parents are spending quite a lot of money on children's fashion.
0:34:54 > 0:34:57I think, you know, with the Suri Cruise effect
0:34:57 > 0:35:00and the pressure that parents have to make their children look good
0:35:00 > 0:35:03as well as themselves, it's actually quite high.
0:35:03 > 0:35:04So, what happens in the rain?
0:35:04 > 0:35:06The drawings don't come off.
0:35:06 > 0:35:08As long as it's had ten minutes to dry,
0:35:08 > 0:35:10the drawings do not come off in the rain or snow.
0:35:12 > 0:35:16Jennifer's product might be designed to withstand
0:35:16 > 0:35:19the worst of the temperamental British weather.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23But for Deborah Meaden, precipitation levels aren't
0:35:23 > 0:35:26the issue when it comes to the shoe industry.
0:35:26 > 0:35:29How many children's shoe sizes are there?
0:35:29 > 0:35:33At the moment, we have seven sizes so we run from a junior 11 to
0:35:33 > 0:35:35an adult size 3.
0:35:35 > 0:35:36Then how many colours?
0:35:36 > 0:35:38The pink for the girls, the blue navy,
0:35:38 > 0:35:41which is sort of a unisex one, and the neon-black which is more
0:35:41 > 0:35:44targeted at boys so that's what we have right now.
0:35:44 > 0:35:49- OK, so, just to sell one of each shoe, you've got 21 shoes.- Yeah.
0:35:49 > 0:35:53OK. I think you're going to have some working capital issues,
0:35:53 > 0:35:55you will find you've got too much tied up in stock
0:35:55 > 0:35:57and you're not selling it fast enough.
0:35:57 > 0:35:58One of the things that we're going to try
0:35:58 > 0:36:00and minimise that risk by is, for example,
0:36:00 > 0:36:03with the French retailer, we are designing a range exclusively
0:36:03 > 0:36:06for them so we won't hold that stock -
0:36:06 > 0:36:07it'll go directly to them.
0:36:07 > 0:36:10They have over 700 stores in France.
0:36:10 > 0:36:13- OK, so that is...- It's a big step in the right direction, yeah,
0:36:13 > 0:36:16and they approached us as well which was really flattering.
0:36:18 > 0:36:23A sceptical Deborah Meaden is temporarily halted in her tracks.
0:36:23 > 0:36:26Does the prospect of going toe-to-toe against some of the
0:36:26 > 0:36:31biggest players in the global shoe industry appeal to Duncan Bannatyne?
0:36:33 > 0:36:37- Jennifer?- Yes.- It's a notoriously tough market you're entering into.
0:36:37 > 0:36:39Yeah. I went into finance, finance was tough.
0:36:39 > 0:36:43I went into online advertising, online advertising was tough.
0:36:43 > 0:36:46I thrive in those environments. It's not an issue for me.
0:36:46 > 0:36:50Why don't you go into an environment that isn't tough?
0:36:50 > 0:36:54Because I've invented a product that's unique, it's different
0:36:54 > 0:36:57and we've created a really solid brand behind it.
0:36:57 > 0:36:58We've packaged it really well,
0:36:58 > 0:37:01we've thought about every single element and how it fits together.
0:37:01 > 0:37:04I agree, the packaging is excellent.
0:37:04 > 0:37:08The name's great, but it's just such a tough industry.
0:37:10 > 0:37:13- Um... - But what's easy in this day and age?
0:37:13 > 0:37:16That's a very, very good question. If I find out, I'll let you know.
0:37:16 > 0:37:17Thank you.
0:37:17 > 0:37:19THEY LAUGH
0:37:20 > 0:37:22Jennifer, it's interesting.
0:37:22 > 0:37:24You've pitched something that anybody could do
0:37:24 > 0:37:26and you have no protection.
0:37:26 > 0:37:31- What's holding me back actually is you.- OK.
0:37:31 > 0:37:35I think you've got a good grasp of where to take the business
0:37:35 > 0:37:37and how to go about it and I think you've got a lot of tenacity
0:37:37 > 0:37:40- and determination to do it as well. - Yeah.
0:37:42 > 0:37:48Peter Jones may be undecided but Piers Linney has made up his mind.
0:37:51 > 0:37:54I think they're cool, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:37:54 > 0:37:55Thank you.
0:37:56 > 0:38:01- A partial offer. So, I would go for half the money...- Mm-hm.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04..£30,000, um...
0:38:06 > 0:38:08..for 12.5%.
0:38:10 > 0:38:13- So, I need somebody else really. - OK.
0:38:17 > 0:38:21Jennifer's dream of a Dragon investment is agonisingly close.
0:38:23 > 0:38:27Will Peter Jones or Deborah Meaden be prepared to match
0:38:27 > 0:38:30Piers Linney's offer of half the cash?
0:38:30 > 0:38:34I think there's two things that will make this business work -
0:38:34 > 0:38:37one is being able to demonstrate the product.
0:38:37 > 0:38:40I think if you manage to get it in front of people,
0:38:40 > 0:38:43- explain what it is, I think they're going to like it.- Yeah.
0:38:43 > 0:38:47- Or you're going to have to go for massive brand exposure.- Yes.
0:38:47 > 0:38:52Both of those are going to require a lot more money so, I'm afraid,
0:38:52 > 0:38:53however winning you are...
0:38:53 > 0:38:57- Thank you.- ..you haven't quite got me over the line.- OK.
0:38:57 > 0:39:00- So, I'm afraid I won't be investing. I'm out.- OK.
0:39:02 > 0:39:06It is one of those sort of weigh-ups for me.
0:39:06 > 0:39:11Do you go and invest in you and hope that is £60,000 enough...
0:39:13 > 0:39:15..to actually get this properly launched?
0:39:24 > 0:39:28- It got close for me, but I'm going to declare myself out.- OK.
0:39:28 > 0:39:29Thank you so much.
0:39:31 > 0:39:35So far, none of the Dragons have equalled or bettered
0:39:35 > 0:39:37Piers Linney's earlier offer.
0:39:37 > 0:39:40Jennifer faces the very real prospect
0:39:40 > 0:39:43of leaving the Den empty-handed.
0:39:43 > 0:39:47Unless Kelly Hoppen or Duncan Bannatyne throws her
0:39:47 > 0:39:48a financial lifeline.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52I've expressed my concerns about this industry,
0:39:52 > 0:39:54it's a very difficult industry.
0:39:54 > 0:39:56Also, it looks great in the box,
0:39:56 > 0:39:59but I don't think this is a great shoe when it's worn.
0:39:59 > 0:40:03And so, for that reason, I'm out.
0:40:12 > 0:40:16I think this is an absolutely brilliant idea, I think that,
0:40:16 > 0:40:19with my credibility of design, I could seriously help you with that.
0:40:19 > 0:40:23- Yeah.- I could open up doors, get you into shops.- Yeah.
0:40:23 > 0:40:28I would happily go with Piers. We've worked together before very well.
0:40:28 > 0:40:30It's an easy answer for me.
0:40:30 > 0:40:34I think you both have everything that I'm looking for and I would
0:40:34 > 0:40:37love to accept you coming together if you're still happy to do that.
0:40:37 > 0:40:40- I would love that.- Excellent. - Thank you. Thank you so much.
0:40:40 > 0:40:44- I think it's fantastic. I'm really pleased.- Well done, great pitch.
0:40:44 > 0:40:47- I like your shirt.- Thank you very much.- Thank you very much, guys.
0:40:47 > 0:40:48Kelly.
0:40:48 > 0:40:51- DUNCAN:- Good luck, Jennifer. - Thank you. PETER:- Well done.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56- Well done, guys. - Chuffed with that.
0:40:57 > 0:41:04- So, success for Jennifer who departs £60,000 to the good...- Whoo-hoo!
0:41:04 > 0:41:06..having secured the financial backing
0:41:06 > 0:41:09of two well-heeled Dragon investors.
0:41:10 > 0:41:13- She's good. - PETER:- I think you'll do well.
0:41:23 > 0:41:24Recently in the Den,
0:41:24 > 0:41:28we've seen a surge of design-led businesses coming forward,
0:41:28 > 0:41:30spurred on by the presence
0:41:30 > 0:41:33of globally-renowned interior design queen Kelly Hoppen.
0:41:33 > 0:41:38In my business, we always want new designs, but I think it's flawed.
0:41:40 > 0:41:45Husband-and-wife team Paul and Alison Johnson were seeking £100,000
0:41:45 > 0:41:51in return for an 18% stake in their bespoke radiator cover venture.
0:41:54 > 0:41:58We've been trading since 2012 from a very much standing start yet
0:41:58 > 0:42:01we've still been able to get some fantastic endorsements
0:42:01 > 0:42:04and testimonials from celebrity designers.
0:42:06 > 0:42:10Paul and Alison were pleased with their progress to date.
0:42:11 > 0:42:14But Peter Jones felt that they had neglected to canvass
0:42:14 > 0:42:17one key industry figure.
0:42:17 > 0:42:20The biggest mistake you made 18 months ago,
0:42:20 > 0:42:23you didn't speak to one designer in the country that'll tell you
0:42:23 > 0:42:25exactly whether this is good or bad.
0:42:25 > 0:42:26Which designer?
0:42:26 > 0:42:28Kelly Hoppen.
0:42:28 > 0:42:31We have spent, for my 39 years in the industry,
0:42:31 > 0:42:35- covering up radiators but you try and make them disappear.- Yes.
0:42:35 > 0:42:39What you're doing is saying, "Whoo-hoo, here I am."
0:42:39 > 0:42:44You know, it's exactly the opposite of what people want to do.
0:42:44 > 0:42:45Everybody said to us,
0:42:45 > 0:42:48"We can't believe there's nothing like this on the market."
0:42:48 > 0:42:53I mean, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that is hideous.
0:42:53 > 0:42:56Paul and Alison had encountered one celebrity designer
0:42:56 > 0:43:00whose take on their product was anything but glowing.
0:43:00 > 0:43:04And Deborah Meaden was about to turn up the heat even further.
0:43:05 > 0:43:08What are your trading figures looking like at the moment?
0:43:08 > 0:43:12Last year, that was our first trading year, we still sold three products.
0:43:12 > 0:43:15That was £1,500 gross turnover.
0:43:15 > 0:43:19This year, we've now placed 17 units in people's homes
0:43:19 > 0:43:22with £8,100 gross turnover.
0:43:22 > 0:43:26Does that sound like a business that's worth £500,000 to you?
0:43:26 > 0:43:30Having dismissed the couple's hefty £500,000 valuation,
0:43:30 > 0:43:34the Dragons wanted to interrogate their business credentials.
0:43:36 > 0:43:38- This is bizarre to me.- Do you think? - It is.
0:43:38 > 0:43:40What do you do, Paul?
0:43:40 > 0:43:42My day job currently is innovation analyst.
0:43:42 > 0:43:45I have designed over many years many products
0:43:45 > 0:43:46for many different companies.
0:43:46 > 0:43:48I was part of the design team that designed
0:43:48 > 0:43:51the Eurostar Channel Tunnel train for example.
0:43:51 > 0:43:56Paul's impressive track record as a product designer may have been clear
0:43:56 > 0:44:00but, sadly, none of the Dragons warmed to his latest creation.
0:44:02 > 0:44:07It fell to Piers Linney to deliver the final verdict.
0:44:07 > 0:44:09I'm not going to tear this to pieces,
0:44:09 > 0:44:11because I'm sure we've all got better things to do.
0:44:11 > 0:44:14- Thank you.- I think you've got it all really wrong.
0:44:15 > 0:44:18I think I would stop. I'm out.
0:44:20 > 0:44:21Thank you.
0:44:32 > 0:44:34We're going to prove them wrong.
0:44:34 > 0:44:36SHE CHUCKLES
0:44:46 > 0:44:49Forget old-fashioned portrait photography,
0:44:49 > 0:44:53it's the selfie which rules these days, and our final entrepreneurs
0:44:53 > 0:44:56believe the enormous use of smartphone cameras offers
0:44:56 > 0:45:00a lucrative commercial opportunity but will the Dragons snap up
0:45:00 > 0:45:04a share of their web-based photo-framing business?
0:45:14 > 0:45:16Enjoy it, mate.
0:45:20 > 0:45:21THEY CHUCKLE
0:45:21 > 0:45:24- This is amazing. - Oh, I can't... I can't believe it.
0:45:31 > 0:45:35Hi, my name's Jake Hayman and this is my business partner Joe,
0:45:35 > 0:45:39and we're here to pitch for a £60,000 investment
0:45:39 > 0:45:42in exchange for 20% of equity in our business Frame Again.
0:45:42 > 0:45:44I was at a wedding in Iceland
0:45:44 > 0:45:48and I was taking my photos on my iPhone in Instagram.
0:45:48 > 0:45:51When I got home, I wanted to get the happy couple a framed
0:45:51 > 0:45:55photo as a gift and I realised pretty quickly that there
0:45:55 > 0:45:59were no cool frames out there which were targeted at people like me
0:45:59 > 0:46:02so I decided to design one myself.
0:46:02 > 0:46:05Frame Again is all about the product but it's also all about getting
0:46:05 > 0:46:09your photo printed, framed and delivered the very next day.
0:46:09 > 0:46:11Our website is really simple.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14You go online, you see the frames that you're going to buy.
0:46:14 > 0:46:16You then get framing.
0:46:16 > 0:46:21If I order these right now, they're going to be on my doorstep tomorrow.
0:46:21 > 0:46:24We did some polling when we wanted to start this business
0:46:24 > 0:46:29and what we found was that 30% of 18-35-year-olds said that they'd buy
0:46:29 > 0:46:32at least one of our frames a year if it were on the market with the
0:46:32 > 0:46:36service we described and that goes up to 50% amongst Instagram users.
0:46:36 > 0:46:38We welcome your questions.
0:46:38 > 0:46:40- Could we look at one of your frames? - Yes.
0:46:40 > 0:46:44- While we ask you questions? - Could I have Duncan's one, please?
0:46:44 > 0:46:46Could I have Peter's?
0:46:52 > 0:46:55A focused pitch from young entrepreneurs Jake Hayman
0:46:55 > 0:47:01and Joe Kenyon, who are seeking £60,000 in return for a 20% share
0:47:01 > 0:47:04in their online photo-framing business.
0:47:06 > 0:47:08But there's something about their product
0:47:08 > 0:47:10which is troubling Kelly Hoppen.
0:47:12 > 0:47:16It's actually not a bad idea. I just can't bear the design.
0:47:16 > 0:47:18I can see what you're trying to do
0:47:18 > 0:47:21in creating the slightly retro frame, but it's so cumbersome.
0:47:21 > 0:47:23We're looking to iterate the design,
0:47:23 > 0:47:26we're looking to broaden the number of designs we have.
0:47:26 > 0:47:28How many frames do you intend to have?
0:47:28 > 0:47:31Clearly, you've got one design which won't work for everybody.
0:47:31 > 0:47:35There's no reason that we can't go on to frames that fit a 6 x 4
0:47:35 > 0:47:38or a 7 x 5 photo, or do different designs,
0:47:38 > 0:47:42but I think, just with this frame, we've got a good way to get started.
0:47:42 > 0:47:44What does it cost you to actually make this?
0:47:44 > 0:47:49It costs us about £8 a frame at the moment, but we think with, er...
0:47:49 > 0:47:50As we scale up, we'll be able
0:47:50 > 0:47:54to bring the cost of the frame itself down to less than £4 a frame.
0:47:54 > 0:47:58So I decide I want to go buy a frame and choose my pictures
0:47:58 > 0:48:00but how much is it going to cost delivered?
0:48:00 > 0:48:02- It's £21.99 total.- Right, OK.
0:48:02 > 0:48:06I think in our vision we can build a business around that product.
0:48:06 > 0:48:09Are we satisfied and resting on our laurels? Absolutely not.
0:48:12 > 0:48:14It's a confident comeback.
0:48:14 > 0:48:17But Deborah Meaden is unconvinced that there's enough demand
0:48:17 > 0:48:22for photo framing amongst the smartphone generation to make it
0:48:22 > 0:48:24a lucrative business proposition.
0:48:26 > 0:48:28My experience is that most people just keep them
0:48:28 > 0:48:31on their phones or they put them on their screensavers.
0:48:31 > 0:48:34You know, there's an electronic way or a digital way
0:48:34 > 0:48:38of viewing their photos that actually they're very happy with.
0:48:38 > 0:48:42I'd like to say personally that the inspiration for the business
0:48:42 > 0:48:46came from wanting to print and frame.
0:48:46 > 0:48:49More people than ever are taking more photos than have ever been
0:48:49 > 0:48:52taken in the history of the world combined now on smartphones,
0:48:52 > 0:48:55and people do actually want to do something with them,
0:48:55 > 0:48:58it's just they need the triggers to be able to do that.
0:48:58 > 0:49:02They do believe that the majority of people's photo experience is now
0:49:02 > 0:49:04online, but they'd really cherish it
0:49:04 > 0:49:06when they do make that commitment to buy.
0:49:07 > 0:49:11For now at least, Jake and Joe are making light work
0:49:11 > 0:49:14of some heavy questioning from the Dragons.
0:49:14 > 0:49:18But something in their pitch appears to have riled Duncan Bannatyne.
0:49:22 > 0:49:25You said in your pitch there were no cool frames out there.
0:49:27 > 0:49:30I find that a little bit insulting, cos I've got about 100 frames
0:49:30 > 0:49:33in my house that are all pretty cool.
0:49:33 > 0:49:38- And coolness is a matter of taste, which is subjective.- Exactly.
0:49:38 > 0:49:42- Very well answered. - He's a braver man than me!
0:49:42 > 0:49:45I have to tell you, I don't think these are cool at all.
0:49:46 > 0:49:49I really don't. I think they're quite ugly, actually.
0:49:51 > 0:49:54- So, for that reason, I'm out. - OK, thanks, Duncan.
0:49:56 > 0:50:00Jake and Joe have lost their first Dragon.
0:50:00 > 0:50:03Will Kelly Hoppen be any more willing to make them an offer?
0:50:07 > 0:50:13Guys, I think you're great. You really are, and, erm...
0:50:13 > 0:50:17- I think your idea is great. You know what I feel about the design.- Yes.
0:50:18 > 0:50:24It's such an easy thing what you've created, but it's £21.
0:50:24 > 0:50:27That's quite a high number.
0:50:27 > 0:50:32I really don't think that, for that money,
0:50:32 > 0:50:36I would want to spend on something as plastic and bulky.
0:50:38 > 0:50:40I'm not going to invest in you. So I'm out.
0:50:43 > 0:50:47A blow for Jake and Joe as designer Kelly Hoppen declines
0:50:47 > 0:50:50the opportunity to invest.
0:50:50 > 0:50:53And Piers Linney has concerns.
0:50:54 > 0:50:58The thing that jumps out at me is there's some very big companies,
0:50:58 > 0:51:00you know, PhotoBox and various people like that,
0:51:00 > 0:51:02and they can easily add this service.
0:51:02 > 0:51:06There's obviously nothing stopping PhotoBox
0:51:06 > 0:51:08bringing out a frame like this,
0:51:08 > 0:51:12but PhotoBox and its high street equivalent are the companies that
0:51:12 > 0:51:18allow you to print your photos into snow globes and onto jigsaws
0:51:18 > 0:51:20and onto mouse mats.
0:51:20 > 0:51:23I think, if you look at the people we're targeting,
0:51:23 > 0:51:26they don't use mouse mats, they use touchscreens.
0:51:26 > 0:51:29I'm waiting to see what a certain entrepreneur in the photo business
0:51:29 > 0:51:31is going to say. He's been very quiet.
0:51:33 > 0:51:35What do you think of Jessops?
0:51:37 > 0:51:39We like Jessops.
0:51:39 > 0:51:42"We love Jessops" would be better.
0:51:44 > 0:51:47It's respectful competition for now, but the aspiration for us
0:51:47 > 0:51:49is to grow this business
0:51:49 > 0:51:53and see a clear exit to one of those more traditional bigger businesses.
0:51:53 > 0:51:56What sort of revenue do you think you're going to be able to
0:51:56 > 0:52:00achieve in the next year?
0:52:00 > 0:52:02Well, it depends if you invest or not.
0:52:02 > 0:52:04We think, over the next year, we're going to be selling
0:52:04 > 0:52:09about 10,000 frames, and so that's about 160 grand we'll bring in.
0:52:09 > 0:52:12It's not exciting to say that your business is going to
0:52:12 > 0:52:14generate 160,000 in income.
0:52:14 > 0:52:17It might be exciting for an investor outside of it,
0:52:17 > 0:52:20but for me sitting here owning Jessops...
0:52:20 > 0:52:21We'll launch framing
0:52:21 > 0:52:24and we'll deliver that sort of income in a week.
0:52:24 > 0:52:28Within three years, we'll be looking at selling 50,000 frames,
0:52:28 > 0:52:33so 800 grand and 600 of that gross profit.
0:52:33 > 0:52:38If we can create a brand that means we're the go-to people for printing,
0:52:38 > 0:52:41framing and delivery for the smartphone photographer,
0:52:41 > 0:52:43then we think there's a huge market.
0:52:44 > 0:52:49The pair have gone head-to-head with photography giant Peter Jones
0:52:49 > 0:52:50and survived.
0:52:52 > 0:52:56But will their composed performance be enough to sway Deborah Meaden?
0:53:00 > 0:53:05My big issue is every element of this business will be under attack
0:53:05 > 0:53:09from businesses that are better placed to enter that market
0:53:09 > 0:53:11and dominate that market than you.
0:53:11 > 0:53:15You haven't got anything that is, other than the two of you,
0:53:15 > 0:53:18that is a barrier to entry.
0:53:18 > 0:53:21So I'm afraid I won't be investing,
0:53:21 > 0:53:25and genuinely I'm kind of disappointed in that.
0:53:25 > 0:53:26But I'm out.
0:53:31 > 0:53:34Tricky with you guys, cos I really like you guys,
0:53:34 > 0:53:35I really like the product.
0:53:35 > 0:53:38I'm not entirely convinced, with the kind of money we're talking about,
0:53:38 > 0:53:41you're going to be able to produce enough traffic
0:53:41 > 0:53:46to convert into picture-frame buyers to generate an investment
0:53:46 > 0:53:48that's worth getting involved in.
0:54:03 > 0:54:05I wish you'd come in with a different business,
0:54:05 > 0:54:07but, as far as this one goes, I'm out.
0:54:09 > 0:54:12Four Dragons have now walked away from the deal.
0:54:14 > 0:54:17Only Peter Jones remains.
0:54:19 > 0:54:21What did you say they cost you to make?
0:54:23 > 0:54:26At the moment, it's costing us eight quid,
0:54:26 > 0:54:28but we can bring it down to less than four quid a unit.
0:54:30 > 0:54:31There's a few things.
0:54:31 > 0:54:38One you mentioned about the size of the market. I agree with you.
0:54:38 > 0:54:41The opportunity is big.
0:54:41 > 0:54:43I'm sitting here thinking, actually,
0:54:43 > 0:54:48you've done a better version of how we are looking to create
0:54:48 > 0:54:51our online piece in terms of the options,
0:54:51 > 0:54:52because you've kept it simple.
0:54:59 > 0:55:01I'm going to make you an offer.
0:55:08 > 0:55:09Do you want a job?
0:55:11 > 0:55:14Er, is that plural?
0:55:14 > 0:55:15At, at...
0:55:17 > 0:55:21Would you both like the £60,000
0:55:21 > 0:55:26in the shape of 100% of your business,
0:55:26 > 0:55:29but you get a job working to build the framing
0:55:29 > 0:55:34and photographic marketplace within the UK's leading imaging company?
0:55:39 > 0:55:41Er, we hadn't prepared for that one.
0:55:43 > 0:55:47I think... I think we'd have to think carefully...
0:55:47 > 0:55:53- We'd have to have a talk about that. - Can we take a moment?- 100%, yeah.
0:55:53 > 0:55:55- Thank you.- Thank you very much for your offer as well.
0:55:58 > 0:56:00It's an astonishing development.
0:56:00 > 0:56:04Less, "I'm in," and more, "You're hired."
0:56:05 > 0:56:08Do you want to take this? This could be fun.
0:56:08 > 0:56:09Do you want a job?
0:56:12 > 0:56:15- I don't know, do you? - I don't know. We could take it.
0:56:24 > 0:56:26I say we do it, man.
0:56:26 > 0:56:29I don't know. We're talking about a job here.
0:56:29 > 0:56:31For 100 grand a year...
0:56:39 > 0:56:42Let's roll the dice. You ready?
0:56:44 > 0:56:47Thanks for your patience, guys. Sorry.
0:56:49 > 0:56:53Erm, if it's OK with you, we're going to turn down the offer
0:56:53 > 0:56:55and in a couple of years' time we're going to be
0:56:55 > 0:56:58knocking on your door hoping you buy our business for a much larger sum.
0:56:58 > 0:57:00Good luck to you.
0:57:00 > 0:57:04- Thank you, everyone. - Good luck, guys.- Thanks.
0:57:06 > 0:57:11So, Jake and Joe depart without the £60,000 investment
0:57:11 > 0:57:13they were seeking.
0:57:13 > 0:57:18But despite leaving empty handed, Peter Jones' job offer has
0:57:18 > 0:57:21turned their visit to the den into an occasion to remember.
0:57:27 > 0:57:29What just happened?!
0:57:31 > 0:57:37- My head's pretty light.- Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what just happened.
0:57:37 > 0:57:39I couldn't tell you what happened.
0:57:39 > 0:57:40And I'm...
0:57:40 > 0:57:42We said no, right?
0:57:42 > 0:57:44- I can tell you we made the right decision.- Yeah.
0:57:56 > 0:58:01So a day packed with surprises draws to a close with a potentially
0:58:01 > 0:58:04life-changing dilemma for Jake and Joe.
0:58:04 > 0:58:08They left the den confident that, in rejecting Peter Jones' job offer,
0:58:08 > 0:58:10they'd made the right decision.
0:58:10 > 0:58:11Do you agree?
0:58:11 > 0:58:14Well, the conversation about all of tonight's pitches
0:58:14 > 0:58:18continues on Twitter using the hashtag #dragonsden.
0:58:20 > 0:58:22Next time in the Den...
0:58:22 > 0:58:24Deborah, it's got nothing to do with you. You're out.
0:58:24 > 0:58:26- Yeah, but this isn't fair. - You're out.
0:58:27 > 0:58:31Try it for me. Tell me what dog food tastes like.
0:58:31 > 0:58:34I think you passed Peter's little test there. Well done.
0:58:34 > 0:58:36I think it is ridiculous.
0:58:37 > 0:58:41This comedy took a very dark turn
0:58:41 > 0:58:46when you said you'd invested £1 million.
0:58:46 > 0:58:49Are you going to take away the offer I made or not?