0:00:03 > 0:00:05- DUNCAN:- 'It doesn't matter what the business is,
0:00:05 > 0:00:06'it's my return that matters.'
0:00:06 > 0:00:09- KELLY:- I would want 40%. - PIERS:- Would you invest in it?
0:00:09 > 0:00:11- DEBORAH:- I'm irritated.
0:00:11 > 0:00:12- PETER:- I'm out.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30These are the Dragons.
0:00:30 > 0:00:37Wealthy, well-connected, innovative and influential.
0:00:37 > 0:00:39Each week, they make or break
0:00:39 > 0:00:42the dreams of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:45 > 0:00:49In the Den, leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden...
0:00:51 > 0:00:53..telecoms giant Peter Jones...
0:00:55 > 0:00:57..hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne...
0:00:58 > 0:01:02..founder of her own global interior design brand Kelly Hoppen...
0:01:03 > 0:01:07..and cloud computing expert and former City financier Piers Linney.
0:01:09 > 0:01:11With thousands to lose but millions to gain,
0:01:11 > 0:01:15the Dragons are prepared to fight for that next shrewd investment.
0:01:18 > 0:01:19In the last decade,
0:01:19 > 0:01:21over 900 entrepreneurs have faced the Dragons,
0:01:21 > 0:01:24and investment offers of £14.5 million
0:01:24 > 0:01:27have been made in this room.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30To face them takes nerve and vision,
0:01:30 > 0:01:33so who will leave with the Dragons' money?
0:01:40 > 0:01:43Welcome back to Dragons' Den, where once again,
0:01:43 > 0:01:47the doors are open to brave entrepreneurs, poised to pitch
0:01:47 > 0:01:52their ideas and inventions to our five multi-millionaire investors.
0:01:52 > 0:01:54Coming up on tonight's show...
0:01:56 > 0:01:58- How many people in the UK home brew? - I don't know that...
0:01:58 > 0:02:01How big is the home brew market in the UK?
0:02:01 > 0:02:02I don't know that, but...
0:02:02 > 0:02:06How can you possibly be slightly credible?
0:02:06 > 0:02:09How much money have you spent on getting it to this point now?
0:02:09 > 0:02:11- About £90,000.- Why?
0:02:11 > 0:02:14Looks like you're hiding your wife in a suit carrier.
0:02:14 > 0:02:15Or part of her.
0:02:15 > 0:02:16It does look a bit random!
0:02:18 > 0:02:22OK. £40,000, 35% - that's my offer.
0:02:27 > 0:02:31The UK property market is firing on all cylinders,
0:02:31 > 0:02:34and our first entrepreneur thinks he's found a new way
0:02:34 > 0:02:36to make money out of it.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40- KELLY:- Oh, my God!
0:02:40 > 0:02:41- DUNCAN:- Oh, oh!
0:02:42 > 0:02:45Sorry, just technical problems with the lift.
0:02:48 > 0:02:52Will the estate agent's pitch come unstuck as he tries to broker
0:02:52 > 0:02:53a deal with a Dragon?
0:03:03 > 0:03:09Hi, I'm Tom Harrington and I'm here today with my business wesold.co.uk,
0:03:09 > 0:03:13a nationwide, online estate agents with a unique difference.
0:03:13 > 0:03:17We're the UK's first pay-per-view estate agent.
0:03:17 > 0:03:21I'm asking for £75,000 for a 20% stake in my business.
0:03:23 > 0:03:27Wesold was launched in January 2013 as an online estate agent with
0:03:27 > 0:03:29a unique payment option,
0:03:29 > 0:03:33where the home seller only pays a small charge for each viewing
0:03:33 > 0:03:35we secure for the property.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37Not only does this cut down their estate agency
0:03:37 > 0:03:40fees by an average of 90%,
0:03:40 > 0:03:42but it also reduces the risk
0:03:42 > 0:03:46and spreads the cost in comparison to other online agents.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49With your investment and our unique business opportunity,
0:03:49 > 0:03:53we can aim to be the fastest-growing online estate agents within
0:03:53 > 0:03:54the next 12 months.
0:03:54 > 0:03:57Thank you for your time. I will now take your questions.
0:03:59 > 0:04:02After a less-than-ideal entrance, a smooth recovery
0:04:02 > 0:04:06and pitch from this confident entrepreneur.
0:04:06 > 0:04:09On offer is a fifth of his pay-as-you-show estate agency,
0:04:09 > 0:04:12in return for £75,000.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17Deborah Meaden wants to know what makes Tom's business different.
0:04:21 > 0:04:24So the good news is that I get the way we buy
0:04:24 > 0:04:28and sell houses needs to change and is going to change.
0:04:28 > 0:04:32- Yeah.- I get that you pay-per-view, cos that's what it says.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36Is there a commission on a sale of a property?
0:04:36 > 0:04:39No. There's no commission on the completion of the property.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43The only time the seller will pay us is for a small initial marketing
0:04:43 > 0:04:48fee of £99, and then for each viewing we secure for their property,
0:04:48 > 0:04:50there's a £35 charge.
0:04:50 > 0:04:53There's a minimum of three viewings and a maximum of 12 viewings charge.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56Any viewings arranged after the twelfth viewing are free of charge.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59And if your property sells in three viewings or under,
0:04:59 > 0:05:02you're going to be selling your property for £205.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04Can you just tell me where this is?
0:05:04 > 0:05:06- This is a fully-developed website. - Yes.
0:05:06 > 0:05:09Yeah? Is it fully tested and it's operating?
0:05:09 > 0:05:13Yes. We launched in January 2013 and we've been operating since then.
0:05:13 > 0:05:18Since then, we've take on 195 new customers.
0:05:18 > 0:05:20OK, so what's your revenue been?
0:05:20 > 0:05:23In the last 12 months, we've turned over £80,000,
0:05:23 > 0:05:26with a net profit of about £5,000.
0:05:26 > 0:05:31So what happens when Zoopla or Rightmove just decides to do
0:05:31 > 0:05:32this themselves?
0:05:32 > 0:05:35I don't think Rightmove and Zoopla would do that.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38They rely heavily on the high street estate agent that are paying
0:05:38 > 0:05:41Rightmove a very high fee to keep their properties on the site.
0:05:41 > 0:05:43That's Rightmove's business model.
0:05:43 > 0:05:46I think if Rightmove were to change and suddenly start charging
0:05:46 > 0:05:49the consumer a fee for selling their property on Rightmove,
0:05:49 > 0:05:52it goes into a totally different strategy - they're going to
0:05:52 > 0:05:54alienate the customers that they already have,
0:05:54 > 0:05:56which are the high street estate agents.
0:05:56 > 0:05:59I think realistically, as the industry continues to change
0:05:59 > 0:06:01and people realise there's an alternative to using
0:06:01 > 0:06:04a high street agent, more and more people are starting to use
0:06:04 > 0:06:05an online estate agent.
0:06:05 > 0:06:09I completely agree the world will go in this direction.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12One of the things about online estate agents is there comes
0:06:12 > 0:06:14a point where you have to interact with the seller,
0:06:14 > 0:06:16so where are your viewings?
0:06:16 > 0:06:19In terms of the viewings, we do not accompany viewings, it would be the
0:06:19 > 0:06:22homeowner themselves that show any potential buyer around the property.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25And that's how we keep out overheads a fraction
0:06:25 > 0:06:26of what a high street agent's are,
0:06:26 > 0:06:29the saving is passed onto the home seller.
0:06:29 > 0:06:33- How many houses have you actually sold?- Just over...70.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36What is the actual website? Is it wesold.com?
0:06:36 > 0:06:37- wesell.co.uk.- .co.uk?
0:06:38 > 0:06:40I like it, I think it sounds good.
0:06:44 > 0:06:46So far, so good - Tom's holding his own.
0:06:46 > 0:06:51But Peter Jones has some concerns about the company's success rate.
0:06:53 > 0:06:57You've had 70 sales, 195 customers...
0:06:57 > 0:07:00I don't understand why you think you could have a business,
0:07:00 > 0:07:03where you're going to have so many disappointed people.
0:07:03 > 0:07:09I don't know many businesses that succeed with having one
0:07:09 > 0:07:12out of every three customers happy,
0:07:12 > 0:07:14and yet, two out of every three not.
0:07:14 > 0:07:16I cannot think of one...
0:07:16 > 0:07:20Our growth has grown very much over the last few months,
0:07:20 > 0:07:23and although we've only sold 70 properties out of the 195,
0:07:23 > 0:07:26a lot we've only just instructed in the last couple of months.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28- Well... - So it's inaccurate to give...
0:07:28 > 0:07:29Well, give me the last three months.
0:07:29 > 0:07:32How many customers have you acquired in the last three months?
0:07:32 > 0:07:36- It's been about 20 per month, so... - So 60 customers?
0:07:36 > 0:07:39And in the last three months, how many houses have you sold?
0:07:39 > 0:07:43It would work out... I don't have that exact figure to hand.
0:07:43 > 0:07:45- Come on.- It's close to 50%.- Right.
0:07:45 > 0:07:50How many businesses do you know that could survive with a customer
0:07:50 > 0:07:52satisfaction survey of 50%?
0:07:54 > 0:07:57The high street does not aim on selling every property...
0:07:57 > 0:07:59Just answer the question.
0:07:59 > 0:08:00How many businesses? Just think about it.
0:08:00 > 0:08:04- The high street estate agency model. - That's nonsense!
0:08:04 > 0:08:06They don't sell every property they take on.
0:08:06 > 0:08:07They sell about...
0:08:07 > 0:08:10I'm dissatisfied with perhaps they're not selling it,
0:08:10 > 0:08:13but I'm even then furious if they'd charged me.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18You're charging customers for a service
0:08:18 > 0:08:21and your hit rate is one in two... At best, at the moment.
0:08:21 > 0:08:23- DUNCAN:- Are you in a bad mood this morning, Peter Jones?
0:08:23 > 0:08:26- PETER:- And you've got to pay 500 quid.- That's not an accurate figure.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29Well, it's based on your stats for the last 12 months.
0:08:29 > 0:08:32Yes, and like I say, we've taken on a number of properties...
0:08:32 > 0:08:36But until you get to a larger, like an 80 or 90% model...
0:08:37 > 0:08:40..you can't get away from the fact that you're going to have
0:08:40 > 0:08:41people that are upset with you.
0:08:41 > 0:08:44In the same way with any high street estate agent.
0:08:44 > 0:08:47I'm not upset to the point I'm losing-money upset,
0:08:47 > 0:08:49I'm upset cos you haven't sold my house.
0:08:49 > 0:08:50You've taken it to a new level.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53- It's not that bad!- The biggest online estate agent charges
0:08:53 > 0:08:55a commission on completion...of 1.5%.
0:08:55 > 0:08:57That's completion on success.
0:08:57 > 0:08:58If I'm selling my car,
0:08:58 > 0:09:01all that you're incentivising are tyre-kickers.
0:09:03 > 0:09:10Tension in the Den as Peter Jones lambasts Tom's business model.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12On which side of the fence does Kelly Hoppen sit?
0:09:15 > 0:09:18I think that the market is ready for something different,
0:09:18 > 0:09:21I just think your model is not correct
0:09:21 > 0:09:25and missing a whole proportion of your business, if you like,
0:09:25 > 0:09:28which is the bit that I think needs most work.
0:09:28 > 0:09:30I think it's quite easy to get people to walk through the door
0:09:30 > 0:09:33and look at property - people love doing that.
0:09:33 > 0:09:36It's the bit at the end - trying to get the best price,
0:09:36 > 0:09:41trying to close the deal of which you're not taking any part of that.
0:09:41 > 0:09:45Then your client has paid you for 12 viewings,
0:09:45 > 0:09:49they've got no protection cos you're not interested in the back end.
0:09:49 > 0:09:52- What happens then? - So...you are protected.
0:09:52 > 0:09:55It's in our interest to sell properties.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58What we see in going forward is that most of our new customers will
0:09:58 > 0:10:00come from recommendations or referrals.
0:10:00 > 0:10:01If a sale does fall through,
0:10:01 > 0:10:03we get it back on the market,
0:10:03 > 0:10:06they don't pay any additional viewing charges.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09So if they've already reached their 12-viewing maximum charge,
0:10:09 > 0:10:12they're not going to pay anything else for any additional viewings.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16The other problem is that you're up against people with big, big money,
0:10:16 > 0:10:19and I don't think that you've thought this out correctly.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22I might be a brave investor, but I'm not a foolish one,
0:10:22 > 0:10:24so I'm not going to invest - I'm out.
0:10:29 > 0:10:33Trouble for Tom, as Kelly Hoppen fails to put in an offer.
0:10:35 > 0:10:37But four Dragons still remain.
0:10:39 > 0:10:42I kind of feel the same way about this as I did when we first started,
0:10:42 > 0:10:45cos what I'm most interested in is, who is going to get me
0:10:45 > 0:10:47the highest price for my house?
0:10:47 > 0:10:49So I've got to be convinced that this is the best
0:10:49 > 0:10:54and actually all of the other stuff you're talking about is peripheral.
0:10:54 > 0:10:56It's that number, cos as a seller,
0:10:56 > 0:10:59I'd be a little bit concerned that all you have to do is pass
0:10:59 > 0:11:01a load of people through the property
0:11:01 > 0:11:05and you make your money, whether you sell it or not.
0:11:05 > 0:11:08The issue is, am I going to get the highest price?
0:11:08 > 0:11:11And I don't think that you can convince me that you would do
0:11:11 > 0:11:14that, so I'm afraid I won't be investing - I'm out.
0:11:15 > 0:11:17Tom...
0:11:17 > 0:11:18The thing you have done well is,
0:11:18 > 0:11:22sometimes you have to go before the industry is ready for you.
0:11:22 > 0:11:26And the issue is often that the industry's often not ready -
0:11:26 > 0:11:28we have to start building the brand and the infrastructure
0:11:28 > 0:11:31so that when it is ready, you exist.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33However, to do that can cost a lot of money,
0:11:33 > 0:11:35cos you have to fund the gap, basically.
0:11:35 > 0:11:38And the issue you're going to have is that you may not be able
0:11:38 > 0:11:42to fund that gap - I'm not sure this kind of money's enough.
0:11:42 > 0:11:45But when that day comes, the people who have the database,
0:11:45 > 0:11:48the people that already have these websites that we've spoken about,
0:11:48 > 0:11:50they can just turn this on overnight.
0:11:50 > 0:11:52Good luck with it, but I'm out.
0:11:52 > 0:11:53Thank you for your time.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56I actually think that this is not the future,
0:11:56 > 0:12:00and I think that you are destined for failure.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03You've got to completely rethink this model, I don't think it works.
0:12:03 > 0:12:08I think the concept is wrong and you haven't got the scale to adopt it,
0:12:08 > 0:12:10and you haven't got enough capital.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13Because it's all about results when you want to sell a house.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15And people are more internet-savvy,
0:12:15 > 0:12:17and they're going to become more so over the coming years.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20And as that happens, we're going to go direct.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24So I think you need to rethink the whole thing.
0:12:24 > 0:12:27I'm not going to invest, Tom, and I'm out.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30Tom is four Dragons down,
0:12:30 > 0:12:34but his great defender is still in the chain.
0:12:34 > 0:12:37Will Duncan Bannatyne's earlier enthusiasm
0:12:37 > 0:12:41result in an exchange of contracts with the online estate agent?
0:12:46 > 0:12:49I think you've been given a very bad time.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53I think they've really had a go at you.
0:12:55 > 0:12:58I don't think it's that bad. I think what you've done is quite unique.
0:12:58 > 0:13:02You're the first one doing it, as far as I can see.
0:13:02 > 0:13:04Sometimes, you look at the people that come in front of you,
0:13:04 > 0:13:07and I think you are very investable.
0:13:08 > 0:13:13I think you've come across very well and I think you do know your sector.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18The trouble is, as others have said,
0:13:18 > 0:13:19I do agree that there's too many people
0:13:19 > 0:13:21coming into the market at the moment,
0:13:21 > 0:13:23it's going to be a cut-throat business
0:13:23 > 0:13:25and that's where the problem is.
0:13:25 > 0:13:27So although I think you could do well,
0:13:27 > 0:13:31I can't invest cos it's just such a big market.
0:13:31 > 0:13:35So I'm going to say, the best of luck, but I'm out.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37Thank you for your time and your comments.
0:13:40 > 0:13:43Wesold certainly provoked some strong reactions from the Dragons,
0:13:43 > 0:13:48but it failed to get over the investment threshold,
0:13:48 > 0:13:52and Tom leaves behind a Den where opinions are still divided.
0:13:52 > 0:13:56How are you going to get entrepreneurs to come in front of us
0:13:56 > 0:13:58if you talk to them like that? You just went on and on...
0:13:58 > 0:14:02- PETER:- That is the most ridiculous, stupid, badly-pitched business.
0:14:02 > 0:14:05He's not unique if he's got a flawed business concept.
0:14:20 > 0:14:24With UK coffee sales last year double that of tea sales,
0:14:24 > 0:14:28it might seem an odd time to try and buck the trend and make us
0:14:28 > 0:14:31fall in love with our cuppa again.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34But that is exactly what our next entrepreneurs Philip Perera
0:14:34 > 0:14:39and Omar Farag have in mind with their new brand of loose tea.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47Just let that brew.
0:14:47 > 0:14:49I do like a good cup of tea!
0:14:50 > 0:14:52Hello, my name is Philip.
0:14:52 > 0:14:54And I'm Omar.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58We're here today seeking £50,000 of investment for a 15% equity
0:14:58 > 0:15:00stake in our business - The Teabox Company.
0:15:01 > 0:15:03Around six months ago,
0:15:03 > 0:15:06we started a mission to get the world drinking loose leaf tea,
0:15:06 > 0:15:07one cup at a time.
0:15:07 > 0:15:12Since starting our mission, we've sold over 1,500 units and now supply
0:15:12 > 0:15:16over 25 restaurants, bars and cafes across the North West of England.
0:15:16 > 0:15:19I grew up in Germany, where my mum used to run a tea shop.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21That's where I found my love for tea.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24When I came over to the UK, I struggled to find a good
0:15:24 > 0:15:27tea at a reasonable price.
0:15:27 > 0:15:29OMAR: We also operate a fully-comprehensive
0:15:29 > 0:15:33loose-leaf tea-blending service called Make Your Own Blend.
0:15:33 > 0:15:36Here, customers log on, choose a tea base that they love
0:15:36 > 0:15:38and blend it with over 60 different flavours,
0:15:38 > 0:15:42resulting in a possible two million varieties of tea.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44The restaurants, bars and cafes that we supply also use this
0:15:44 > 0:15:47service to create their own unique house blends.
0:15:47 > 0:15:50Our customers can buy our products from our website
0:15:50 > 0:15:55and a number of retailers in the North West.
0:15:55 > 0:15:57We're a small company with a big heart.
0:15:57 > 0:16:00Thank you for your time and we'll bring you a cup of tea
0:16:00 > 0:16:02- if you'd like to try one. - Yeah, definitely.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08A refreshing pitch from a pair wanting to change the way
0:16:08 > 0:16:09we enjoy our national drink.
0:16:11 > 0:16:13- Thank you.- They're in search of
0:16:13 > 0:16:16£50,000 for 15% of their new business.
0:16:18 > 0:16:20But will this lifestyle product
0:16:20 > 0:16:23be to the taste of style guru Kelly Hoppen?
0:16:26 > 0:16:28- Hi, Philip and Omar, I'm Kelly. - BOTH: Hi, Kelly.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32You've really brightened up my day cos I really love loose tea,
0:16:32 > 0:16:33I prefer it to tea bags.
0:16:33 > 0:16:37I think the world we live in, people just grab a tea bag and it's easy,
0:16:37 > 0:16:40but actually, we're losing out.
0:16:40 > 0:16:44What is so brilliant about tea, is the whole ceremony, isn't it?
0:16:44 > 0:16:47You brew it and you pour it from a teapot.
0:16:47 > 0:16:49And what I love about what you've just pitched is
0:16:49 > 0:16:51the idea of having a unique service,
0:16:51 > 0:16:54where you can mix flavours.
0:16:54 > 0:16:57I think you've got something here.
0:16:57 > 0:17:01I'm a designer and I'm looking at this product and thinking of several
0:17:01 > 0:17:05different ways that you could better the tube, make smaller boxes.
0:17:05 > 0:17:08You think of independent stores where they could do a great
0:17:08 > 0:17:11display, it's very different - this would look fantastic.
0:17:11 > 0:17:15And you only have to look at someone like Mariage Freres in Paris,
0:17:15 > 0:17:18I don't know if you know them, one of the greatest tea houses,
0:17:18 > 0:17:23they started very small and they have done remarkably well.
0:17:23 > 0:17:25I'd like to make you an offer...
0:17:27 > 0:17:30..but I think it would take quite a bit of my time,
0:17:30 > 0:17:32because one would need to go to market quickly.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37I would want 25% of the business,
0:17:37 > 0:17:39for the full amount of the money,
0:17:39 > 0:17:41but once I'd got some of my investment back
0:17:41 > 0:17:45and I could see it was making traction, I would drop it to 20%.
0:17:46 > 0:17:48OMAR: Thank you very much.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57A radical and extraordinary move from Kelly Hoppen,
0:17:57 > 0:17:59as she stakes her claim on the business
0:17:59 > 0:18:01with an unusually early offer.
0:18:03 > 0:18:05Will Deborah Meaden be as bold?
0:18:08 > 0:18:11Can you just give me an idea of your vision for this?
0:18:11 > 0:18:14Are you looking at retail? Are you looking at...?
0:18:14 > 0:18:17What are the different streams to the business?
0:18:17 > 0:18:20We get asked that quite a lot, to be honest.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23What initially started as a way of us marketing our product -
0:18:23 > 0:18:27restaurants, cafes and bars - grew organically
0:18:27 > 0:18:34and we get about 300% gross profit on restaurant orders.
0:18:34 > 0:18:37The retail part is what we really want to get into.
0:18:37 > 0:18:41We want it to be as successful as possible.
0:18:41 > 0:18:43- PETER:- How old are you? - BOTH: 23.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45- 23?- Both.
0:18:45 > 0:18:48How much money have you invested in this?
0:18:48 > 0:18:50- £20,000.- Between you?
0:18:50 > 0:18:53Yeah, we received a grant from the Young Enterprise programme.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55And how much was that?
0:18:55 > 0:18:56About £12,000.
0:18:56 > 0:18:58So you've put in 8,000 between you?
0:18:58 > 0:19:01Yeah, 5,000 each, so it's 22,000.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05- And you haven't got any other loans or anything?- No.
0:19:06 > 0:19:08It's neat. I think it's quite nice.
0:19:08 > 0:19:10It tastes really good, actually.
0:19:10 > 0:19:11PHILIP: We're glad to hear.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15HE SMACKS HIS LIPS
0:19:15 > 0:19:17Did you start with a nice box?
0:19:17 > 0:19:20- No.- You didn't call it "The Teatube Company"
0:19:20 > 0:19:21you called it The Teabox Company.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23The packaging, I don't like it.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25The effort and love you've put into the product is not
0:19:25 > 0:19:30reflected in this thing you've stuck it in unfortunately.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32I've got to say, I can't get that excited about it,
0:19:32 > 0:19:34if I'm really honest with you.
0:19:34 > 0:19:36I'm out.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42Piers Linney's sharp exit gives
0:19:42 > 0:19:47Kelly Hoppen one less Dragon competitor to worry about.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50And now, Duncan Bannatyne is ready to have his say.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58I think you've had a really good offer, that's the problem I have.
0:20:01 > 0:20:03And I think there is a lot of work to do.
0:20:06 > 0:20:08I quite like it, but I'm not going to try and compete with Kelly on
0:20:08 > 0:20:11those numbers, so I'm going to pull out, so I'm out.
0:20:11 > 0:20:12- BOTH: Thank you. - Good luck.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14OMAR: Thank you very much.
0:20:18 > 0:20:19- PETER:- Is Deborah still in?
0:20:23 > 0:20:28In terms of what you need to sustain yourselves ongoing,
0:20:28 > 0:20:30will you need to take any money out of the business
0:20:30 > 0:20:32if you took investment?
0:20:32 > 0:20:35If it was generating money to take out.
0:20:35 > 0:20:37But if it wasn't, how would you live?
0:20:38 > 0:20:39We could...
0:20:39 > 0:20:41We could live.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43Whereabouts are you based?
0:20:43 > 0:20:47- Liverpool.- If you got investment, would you relocate down to London?
0:20:47 > 0:20:48OMAR: Possibly.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50PHILIP: If it's good for the business.
0:20:50 > 0:20:51So what you're saying is,
0:20:51 > 0:20:54you'd do whatever's right at the right time for the business?
0:20:54 > 0:20:56- Yes.- And you'd consider it?
0:20:56 > 0:20:58Guys, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:21:00 > 0:21:04And it's based around what you've done to date,
0:21:04 > 0:21:06and also what you've just said now.
0:21:06 > 0:21:08Because I actually don't mind you staying in Liverpool -
0:21:08 > 0:21:10Liverpool's beautiful, so I'm very happy with that.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13It's more that you've demonstrated sheer commitment.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16If you're willing to uproot yourselves and go wherever the
0:21:16 > 0:21:19business is, it shows that you're determined to make this a success.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22I'm going to make you an offer for all of the money...
0:21:23 > 0:21:25..for 26% of the company.
0:21:27 > 0:21:29OK. Thank you.
0:21:29 > 0:21:30Thank you.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36Erm...
0:21:38 > 0:21:43This, I think, needs more work than you probably think it does.
0:21:43 > 0:21:48But what's been holding me in is you guys - you're obviously good
0:21:48 > 0:21:50and you get it.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55I'm going to offer you all of the money,
0:21:55 > 0:21:57and I want 25% of the business.
0:22:03 > 0:22:05A setback for Kelly Hoppen
0:22:05 > 0:22:08and her early bid to invest in the business,
0:22:08 > 0:22:11as two other Dragons come in with equally competitive offers.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15Three bids have now been tendered,
0:22:15 > 0:22:18posing a tri-lemma for the entrepreneurs.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20PHILIP: Is it OK if we...?
0:22:20 > 0:22:22- DEBORAH:- Go and talk to each other.
0:22:23 > 0:22:25PHILIP: This was not...easy.
0:22:27 > 0:22:29OMAR: (What do you want?)
0:22:29 > 0:22:32PHILIP: (I say the one on the retail and you...)
0:22:34 > 0:22:36THEY WHISPER
0:22:45 > 0:22:48Erm, Kelly, we'd like to accept your offer.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51- Oh, brilliant! - Thank you very much.
0:22:56 > 0:23:00A Dragon with bags of enthusiasm and an offer that's hard to beat -
0:23:00 > 0:23:02the perfect blend for a successful investment.
0:23:04 > 0:23:05And the entrepreneurs can now leave
0:23:05 > 0:23:07for a well-earned beverage themselves.
0:23:07 > 0:23:10- DUNCAN:- That was a good investment. - Yeah, really nice.
0:23:14 > 0:23:19Having the Dragons fighting over you...we're just over the moon.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23PHILIP: Just can't believe it, really.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43- MAN:- Stand by.
0:23:43 > 0:23:45Here we go...
0:23:45 > 0:23:48Another budding entrepreneur hoping to prise some cash
0:23:48 > 0:23:51from the Dragons was Sally Patty from West Sussex.
0:23:52 > 0:23:58She wanted £45,000 for 10% of her product - Doddle For Dogs.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01I'd like to introduce you to Bertie, who is modelling the product,
0:24:01 > 0:24:03which is a combined lead and collar,
0:24:03 > 0:24:08which makes walking the dog absolutely fiddle-free.
0:24:08 > 0:24:11But one thing that wasn't fiddle-free was Sally's pitch,
0:24:11 > 0:24:15especially when Peter Jones collared her about the practicalities
0:24:15 > 0:24:17of the product.
0:24:17 > 0:24:19It is quite heavy, isn't it?
0:24:19 > 0:24:23I could see dogs walking around angled to their right.
0:24:23 > 0:24:24If you put that on a Chihuahua,
0:24:24 > 0:24:27it would be like putting a ball and chain on it.
0:24:27 > 0:24:29I know, but you wouldn't put it on a Chihuahua.
0:24:29 > 0:24:31And also, it would look ridiculous on my Great Dane.
0:24:31 > 0:24:35You're talking the extremes of my marketplace.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39You'd ostracise all the bitches that look at him and think, "Yeah!"
0:24:39 > 0:24:42Kelly Hoppen thought Sally was barking mad
0:24:42 > 0:24:45when she uncovered her commitment to the venture.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47How much money have you spent on getting it to this point?
0:24:47 > 0:24:51- About £90,000. - And it's three years of your life?
0:24:51 > 0:24:53- Yeah.- Why? Why have you done that?
0:24:54 > 0:24:58Bert's presence provided a welcome distraction from wheeling
0:24:58 > 0:25:01and dealing for the dog-loving Dragons.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04- Would Bert mind if I tried it? - Of course not!
0:25:04 > 0:25:06He's not interested in Deborah -
0:25:06 > 0:25:09he's looking for food or something else.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11Bert, Come on, poppet.
0:25:11 > 0:25:12Bert!
0:25:12 > 0:25:14Bert doesn't want to walk with me.
0:25:14 > 0:25:17What do you think of it? Is it any good?
0:25:17 > 0:25:21In the end, it was Deborah Meaden who had the final word.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24However much I like you and however much I love your dog,
0:25:24 > 0:25:27I don't love that so much, so I won't be investing.
0:25:27 > 0:25:29I'm out.
0:25:29 > 0:25:31Oh, Bert!
0:25:32 > 0:25:34Well, we did our best.
0:25:36 > 0:25:39And let's hope we can try and prove the Dragons wrong.
0:25:42 > 0:25:44So far tonight...
0:25:44 > 0:25:45Just technical problems with the lift!
0:25:45 > 0:25:47..one product has been given
0:25:47 > 0:25:50the all-important Dragon seal of approval.
0:25:50 > 0:25:52I'd like to make you an offer.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57Will any of these cash-hungry hopefuls also have the
0:25:57 > 0:26:01- winning formula for investment? - Can we get back to cider?
0:26:01 > 0:26:03No, cos that business sounds a lot more exciting than this.
0:26:03 > 0:26:05But that's not what they've pitched.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08Doesn't matter, they're in the Den - they're mine.
0:26:12 > 0:26:15Now, peanuts of the world, watch out,
0:26:15 > 0:26:18our next entrepreneur has plans to pick you,
0:26:18 > 0:26:21crush you and turn you into butter.
0:26:21 > 0:26:24He's a former economics student, Akeem Ojuko, and he thinks
0:26:24 > 0:26:28his flavoured peanut butters could soon be flying off the shelves.
0:27:00 > 0:27:02Hello, Dragons.
0:27:02 > 0:27:06My name is Akeem Ojuko and I'm here pitching for £50,000
0:27:06 > 0:27:12investment for a 20% return in my business The Wild Peanut.
0:27:12 > 0:27:14So what is The Wild Peanut?
0:27:14 > 0:27:16Well, in a nutshell - excuse the pun -
0:27:16 > 0:27:21it is flavoured natural peanut butter with no preservatives or additives.
0:27:21 > 0:27:24All five flavours were recently exhibited at a national
0:27:24 > 0:27:27exhibition at the NEC, and had fantastic response.
0:27:27 > 0:27:31We launched just two months ago, we've had fantastic attention,
0:27:31 > 0:27:35we sold just under 6,000 jars across three different sizes -
0:27:35 > 0:27:4045 grams, 320 grams and a one kilo pails own label.
0:27:40 > 0:27:42We're in talks with two major retailers,
0:27:42 > 0:27:46one of which has put a proposal forward to make our peanut butter
0:27:46 > 0:27:47for over 100,000 units.
0:27:47 > 0:27:50Essentially, the peanut butter market is huge,
0:27:50 > 0:27:54growing 20% over the last two years in the UK alone.
0:27:54 > 0:27:58And I really feel The Wild Peanut will be the disruption in the market.
0:27:58 > 0:28:00Dragons, I really welcome any questions you may have
0:28:00 > 0:28:03and I would love you to try some peanut butter. Thank you.
0:28:05 > 0:28:08- Do you want us to come up there? - No, I'll bring some.
0:28:08 > 0:28:10I've only got two hands unfortunately.
0:28:11 > 0:28:14A pitch to get the taste buds tingling from Akeem Ojuko
0:28:14 > 0:28:17from South East London.
0:28:17 > 0:28:22He's hoping for £50,000 in return for a 20% stake in his business
0:28:22 > 0:28:24selling flavoured peanut butter.
0:28:25 > 0:28:29Deborah Meaden is first to question the culinary entrepreneur.
0:28:32 > 0:28:34Why is the consistency the way it is?
0:28:34 > 0:28:40Cos it's not what I would call peanut butter, it's almost a sauce.
0:28:40 > 0:28:44It's very different to the other suppliers et cetera,
0:28:44 > 0:28:46or the other peanut butter makers.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49Mainly, firstly cos it's got different ingredients mixed,
0:28:49 > 0:28:53but there is no difference the way it is grinded and produced.
0:28:53 > 0:28:54But look...
0:28:58 > 0:29:03Yeah. Because we use no stabilisers, the oil rises to the top,
0:29:03 > 0:29:07so it is sometimes more liquidy.
0:29:07 > 0:29:12So if you give it a quick stir, it's a lot more spreadable.
0:29:12 > 0:29:15Sorry? What's a lot more...? Are you saying...?
0:29:15 > 0:29:18Because the peanuts have peanut oil,
0:29:18 > 0:29:21and without stabilisers...
0:29:21 > 0:29:23What were you saying about mixing?
0:29:23 > 0:29:25Cos I've just emptied the whole thing -
0:29:25 > 0:29:27- it's just ran out of the jar. - Oh.
0:29:27 > 0:29:32Was that intentional or is that a by-product of how it's manufactured?
0:29:32 > 0:29:35It's a by-product because there's no stabilisers.
0:29:35 > 0:29:38I could have found quicker or cheaper ways to make the product -
0:29:38 > 0:29:42I could have made a two month extra extension on the life of the
0:29:42 > 0:29:45product by adding stabilisers, but I wanted to do things the right way.
0:29:45 > 0:29:48I actually like the fact that it's slightly runnier cos I often eat
0:29:48 > 0:29:51almond butter and the same thing happens and you have to mix it,
0:29:51 > 0:29:53which is lovely. I love peanut butter.
0:29:53 > 0:29:56It's incredibly fattening, but I do love it.
0:29:56 > 0:29:58How did this come about?
0:29:58 > 0:30:02Essentially, although it's cliched, I loved peanut butter.
0:30:02 > 0:30:06I also saw a massive gap in the market between the fact that
0:30:06 > 0:30:08a lot of people do mix things with their peanut butter,
0:30:08 > 0:30:12but there's no spread to mix them together - at least in Europe.
0:30:12 > 0:30:15Even the ones that exist worldwide, have a lot of additives
0:30:15 > 0:30:19and preservatives in comparison to what a lot of people would like.
0:30:19 > 0:30:20What's your vision for it?
0:30:20 > 0:30:22- Let's face it, you're up against some big names.- Yes.
0:30:22 > 0:30:25So I wanted to ensure I had a very strong brand,
0:30:25 > 0:30:28that it's not just a company you buy peanut butter from, you eat it
0:30:28 > 0:30:30and you throw away the jar.
0:30:30 > 0:30:32So I really wanted to ensure it
0:30:32 > 0:30:35had as much attachment to customer experience as possible.
0:30:35 > 0:30:38And that's why I thought of the brand and how the brand's going to
0:30:38 > 0:30:41be perceived way before I got to the product stage.
0:30:41 > 0:30:45It tastes quite nice actually, and the branding's nice as well.
0:30:45 > 0:30:46Thank you.
0:30:49 > 0:30:51A good start from Akeem, who's turned
0:30:51 > 0:30:55criticism of his product into major praise from some of the Dragons.
0:30:57 > 0:30:59Kelly Hoppen wants to know
0:30:59 > 0:31:03if any potential suppliers are as wild about Akeem's peanuts.
0:31:07 > 0:31:08Where are you going?
0:31:08 > 0:31:11Have you gone out to all the big retailers and spoken to them?
0:31:11 > 0:31:13What's the feedback?
0:31:13 > 0:31:15Erm, I have gone...
0:31:15 > 0:31:19Two of the retailers that we're in talks with,
0:31:19 > 0:31:24we have actually spoken to a range of other retailers.
0:31:24 > 0:31:26Just give me... How many?
0:31:27 > 0:31:30- Four of the major retailers. - And what have they said?
0:31:30 > 0:31:32They all think the product's fantastic.
0:31:32 > 0:31:35Off that exhibition that we just had,
0:31:35 > 0:31:38there was a buyer that actually came to that event and said it
0:31:38 > 0:31:39was their favourite stand.
0:31:39 > 0:31:43- Did they place an order? - They put the proposal forward.
0:31:43 > 0:31:45- So this is a proposal? - Yeah, I can show you the letter.- OK.
0:31:46 > 0:31:48Sure.
0:32:04 > 0:32:07This worries me, because Ocado have come to you
0:32:07 > 0:32:12and they've basically come to you as a manufacturer,
0:32:12 > 0:32:17and what you were doing was selling your brand and your tastes,
0:32:17 > 0:32:19and out of the four that they have asked for,
0:32:19 > 0:32:22for you to make for them with their own brand on,
0:32:22 > 0:32:25- only one of them is one of these tastes.- Yep.
0:32:25 > 0:32:26And that, to me is insane,
0:32:26 > 0:32:29because they could go anywhere to get peanut butter made,
0:32:29 > 0:32:32- so how did that come about? - Great question.
0:32:32 > 0:32:35So, essentially, he firstly wanted us to produce their own label
0:32:35 > 0:32:41peanut butter, based on the taste that we make and the texture...
0:32:41 > 0:32:43he really, really likes.
0:32:43 > 0:32:45Why do they need you, you don't actually make it?
0:32:45 > 0:32:47You're like the archetypal middleman.
0:32:47 > 0:32:49They have the choice to go to any company,
0:32:49 > 0:32:52but they would specifically like to work with us.
0:32:52 > 0:32:55Akeem, I'd hate to be cynical about supermarkets
0:32:55 > 0:32:58but I think they tend to go with whoever can do it the cheapest.
0:32:58 > 0:33:00Yeah, of course. That's one of the benefits.
0:33:00 > 0:33:04So I'm sure a manufacturer could do it cheaper.
0:33:04 > 0:33:05Um...
0:33:07 > 0:33:08Yeah...
0:33:08 > 0:33:10You could say that, yeah.
0:33:12 > 0:33:16A setback for the entrepreneur, as the Dragons dish out some
0:33:16 > 0:33:17brutal truths about that
0:33:17 > 0:33:20less-than-promising supermarket deal.
0:33:22 > 0:33:24Will Peter Jones be any more encouraging?
0:33:30 > 0:33:33You said you had a business before - tell me about that.
0:33:33 > 0:33:36First business, I was an online reseller.
0:33:36 > 0:33:39I then ran an events management company at university.
0:33:39 > 0:33:41- And what degree did you get?- None.
0:33:41 > 0:33:45I left university to follow my passion and start that business.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48So I was in my second year of economics, finance and banking,
0:33:48 > 0:33:51but I always knew from a young age that I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
0:33:51 > 0:33:53So you've done two years at university -
0:33:53 > 0:33:55give me a snapshot of your balance sheet.
0:33:56 > 0:33:59Um...
0:34:06 > 0:34:08OK.
0:34:08 > 0:34:09Assets and liabilities...
0:34:10 > 0:34:12Would form part of it.
0:34:12 > 0:34:15So my current assets is...
0:34:15 > 0:34:17eh...
0:34:17 > 0:34:20..my exhibition stands and, eh,
0:34:20 > 0:34:23my products that I have currently.
0:34:23 > 0:34:28That is just over 4,500, so £4,600,
0:34:28 > 0:34:30but my liabilities is...
0:34:31 > 0:34:35Well, I'd see some of my stock that I have is overstock.
0:34:37 > 0:34:41So your current snapshot is - stands at £4,600
0:34:41 > 0:34:43and you've got an overstock of stock.
0:34:43 > 0:34:47Have you ever seen a balance sheet that says...?
0:34:47 > 0:34:50No. No, I got that wrong, I do apologise.
0:34:50 > 0:34:52Do you want to start again, or do you...?
0:34:52 > 0:34:55Are you going to struggle to give me a snapshot?
0:34:55 > 0:34:57A snapshot I would struggle, yes.
0:34:57 > 0:35:01Yeah, I'll struggle to give a snapshot...
0:35:01 > 0:35:05- an accurate one. Yes. - I'm just trying to get
0:35:05 > 0:35:07an understanding of where the business is at.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10- What have you turned over so far? - Up to now, £2,300.
0:35:11 > 0:35:14- And how much have you invested in the business so far?- £26,000.
0:35:14 > 0:35:16How much is your stock worth at the moment?
0:35:16 > 0:35:19The stock I have at the moment, I've only got £900 worth of stock.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22- I haven't got a lot.- And how much do people owe you at the moment?
0:35:22 > 0:35:27Um...I'm owed just under £300 - so not much.
0:35:27 > 0:35:29And how much have you got in the bank?
0:35:29 > 0:35:32Uh...£1,500.
0:35:32 > 0:35:37I do however have to make a payment for that money to come out,
0:35:37 > 0:35:38it just hasn't yet.
0:35:38 > 0:35:40So as you stand in front of me today,
0:35:40 > 0:35:42you've got nothing in the bank?
0:35:43 > 0:35:46Practically, I have nothing in the bank, no.
0:35:47 > 0:35:49Your passion is fantastic,
0:35:49 > 0:35:52but you're in a bit of a hole, aren't you, in truth?
0:35:54 > 0:35:57Um...
0:35:57 > 0:35:59For 26,000, if you look at it,
0:35:59 > 0:36:03in basically eight months you've lost 80% of your investment.
0:36:05 > 0:36:08Um...
0:36:08 > 0:36:09Yeah, you could say that.
0:36:13 > 0:36:18A painful admission for Akeem as Peter Jones uncovers
0:36:18 > 0:36:20the business' bleak financial situation.
0:36:22 > 0:36:24Kelly Hoppen has heard enough.
0:36:27 > 0:36:29I think it's a clever product
0:36:29 > 0:36:32and I'd like to help you make your dream come true,
0:36:32 > 0:36:35but I don't think this is a business that is going to
0:36:35 > 0:36:37take off quickly and it worries me
0:36:37 > 0:36:42that financially you don't know whether you're coming or going.
0:36:42 > 0:36:45And as an entrepreneur, you've come up with an idea,
0:36:45 > 0:36:50but your business skills in terms of finance are rocky.
0:36:50 > 0:36:54For that reason, I'm not going to invest with you today, and I'm out.
0:36:57 > 0:37:02Kelly Hoppen is the first Dragon to walk away from a deal.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05Has Akeem done anything to convince Deborah Meaden to invest?
0:37:10 > 0:37:12I don't understand why an online retailer,
0:37:12 > 0:37:15or any of the big retailers would need...
0:37:15 > 0:37:18You're not even the manufacturer of it.
0:37:18 > 0:37:21You know... What do you own?
0:37:21 > 0:37:25You own the idea of putting flavours in peanut butters.
0:37:25 > 0:37:28- Yeah, I mean, yeah... - You can't own that!
0:37:28 > 0:37:29I completely agree with you.
0:37:29 > 0:37:34I'm not convinced about the white labelling aspect of it,
0:37:34 > 0:37:37so I'm afraid I won't be investing, Akeem.
0:37:37 > 0:37:39- OK.- I'm out.
0:37:41 > 0:37:43I think it's great that you're being an entrepreneur
0:37:43 > 0:37:45and I think it'd great if you get somewhere,
0:37:45 > 0:37:51but this is not an investment worth £50,000 of my money.
0:37:51 > 0:37:52So I wish you the best of luck,
0:37:52 > 0:37:54but I've got to say, I'm sorry but I'm out.
0:37:54 > 0:37:56OK.
0:37:56 > 0:37:58I'll tell you where I am. So...
0:37:58 > 0:38:01Come back with the next one.
0:38:01 > 0:38:04I like you, I think - I've not quite worked you out yet.
0:38:04 > 0:38:08You do talk quite a lot, quite quickly and it sounds good,
0:38:08 > 0:38:10but you get caught out.
0:38:10 > 0:38:13I don't think this product is the one that will get you where you want
0:38:13 > 0:38:15to be, but I do think you'll find
0:38:15 > 0:38:18something that makes you a lot of money.
0:38:18 > 0:38:20It's a pity you haven't brought it in here today.
0:38:20 > 0:38:23So, it's more the product than you, to be quite frank,
0:38:23 > 0:38:24but because of that, I'm out.
0:38:26 > 0:38:28OK.
0:38:31 > 0:38:36Piers Linney's exit from proceedings leaves only one investor
0:38:36 > 0:38:38still at the table.
0:38:38 > 0:38:44And Peter Jones is displaying some rather un-Dragon-like sympathies.
0:38:45 > 0:38:48I'm more concerned about you.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51You feel the pressure a lot at the moment, don't you?
0:39:02 > 0:39:06- Yeah?- Yeah. You could say that.
0:39:06 > 0:39:09- Um... - You're trying a bit too hard.
0:39:09 > 0:39:10That's how it comes across to me,
0:39:10 > 0:39:14because you're desperate for success.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18And I hate to say it, but I don't believe that this is it,
0:39:18 > 0:39:20and I think you're going to struggle.
0:39:20 > 0:39:24You're in debt, you're not on the starting block, you don't
0:39:24 > 0:39:26have a business at the moment.
0:39:26 > 0:39:28And it's easily, easily, replicated.
0:39:29 > 0:39:34So for that reason, I'm not going to invest, and say I'm out,
0:39:34 > 0:39:37but just take a long hard look in that mirror and good luck to you,
0:39:37 > 0:39:39cos I think we're going to read about you, Akeem,
0:39:39 > 0:39:43and I hope that you are going to be as successful as you intend to be.
0:39:45 > 0:39:48Sure. OK. Thank you, Dragons.
0:39:48 > 0:39:50- KELLY:- Good luck.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52- DUNCAN:- Thanks, Akeem.
0:39:53 > 0:39:56The Dragons certainly admired Akeem's enthusiasm,
0:39:56 > 0:39:58but they all thought that on this occasion,
0:39:58 > 0:40:01his business was a less-than-appetising proposal.
0:40:06 > 0:40:08He needs a bit of mentoring and help.
0:40:08 > 0:40:09Absolutely.
0:40:09 > 0:40:12They thought that it's not going to be a great success,
0:40:12 > 0:40:15that it'll make a little bit of money et cetera,
0:40:15 > 0:40:19but the goal is for myself to ensure that the business is a success,
0:40:19 > 0:40:23so look out for The Wild Peanut over the next three to six months,
0:40:23 > 0:40:27hopefully I'll see them again where they feel they made a mistake.
0:40:32 > 0:40:34Another entrepreneur who came seeking money
0:40:34 > 0:40:37and mentoring was mum-of-two Kate Arnold.
0:40:39 > 0:40:44She wanted £45,000 for 10% of her business aimed at solving
0:40:44 > 0:40:48a messy problem for the hair extension aficionado.
0:40:50 > 0:40:52Clip-in extensions are great,
0:40:52 > 0:40:56but there are a few problems that any wearer can relate to.
0:40:56 > 0:40:58If you don't store them correctly,
0:40:58 > 0:41:02you end up with tangled, matted extensions...
0:41:02 > 0:41:03like this.
0:41:03 > 0:41:07Hair Hangerz is a totally unique, first-of-its-kind product that
0:41:07 > 0:41:09not just stores the hair neat and tangle-free,
0:41:09 > 0:41:12but also acts as a styling aid.
0:41:12 > 0:41:14Stick it on at any height that suits the user
0:41:14 > 0:41:18and you've got both hands free to work with the hair.
0:41:18 > 0:41:21For Piers Linney, it was less a head-turning investment
0:41:21 > 0:41:25opportunity, more Hammer House Of Horror!
0:41:25 > 0:41:27It's like some scene out of a film.
0:41:27 > 0:41:30- It does look a bit random! - Just looks wrong.
0:41:30 > 0:41:32Looks like you're hiding your wife in a suit carrier.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34Or part of her.
0:41:34 > 0:41:39Jokes aside, Peter Jones couldn't quite grasp what the problem was.
0:41:39 > 0:41:40Nor for that matter
0:41:40 > 0:41:43whether Kate's elaborate solution was really necessary.
0:41:43 > 0:41:46Can I just put this in perspective for one second?
0:41:46 > 0:41:49We are talking about something to hang your hair on, aren't we?
0:41:49 > 0:41:52- Yes.- Have I missed something here?
0:41:52 > 0:41:55- It is a bit random.- It's a suit bag and a hanger.- It solves a problem.
0:41:55 > 0:41:59But when I come home and take whatever hair I have off,
0:41:59 > 0:42:02could I not just put it on my normal hanger?
0:42:02 > 0:42:06They don't work. It would hang, but then it does this.
0:42:06 > 0:42:09So because the sucker's on the back, it stays perfectly firm,
0:42:09 > 0:42:13perfectly in place and you can work with the hair.
0:42:13 > 0:42:14The funny thing is,
0:42:14 > 0:42:17my hair looks like the bit you said looks awful all the time...
0:42:17 > 0:42:19and it's real!
0:42:20 > 0:42:23Months spent perfecting her quickstep on TV,
0:42:23 > 0:42:26made Deborah Meaden appreciate the need for big hair.
0:42:29 > 0:42:32When I was doing Strictly, I had so many hair extensions
0:42:32 > 0:42:35and I now fully appreciate why people go for hair extensions.
0:42:35 > 0:42:38The bad news is, I haven't seen any of them
0:42:38 > 0:42:41stand there with the hair thinking, "Now what do I do?"
0:42:41 > 0:42:43I think you've got a product that will sell,
0:42:43 > 0:42:45I just don't think it's going to be big enough
0:42:45 > 0:42:48and you can't really tell me any different.
0:42:48 > 0:42:51Having got the roots of Kate's invention,
0:42:51 > 0:42:55the Den concluded that less was definitely more.
0:42:55 > 0:42:56- PETER:- I think you have
0:42:56 > 0:42:59over-engineered something that actually doesn't need to be done.
0:42:59 > 0:43:03I would have designed something that clipped onto an existing hanger,
0:43:03 > 0:43:04be it a wooden hanger,
0:43:04 > 0:43:08or created something that was a lot cheaper in a much smaller box.
0:43:08 > 0:43:11Potentially, you could even sell to the people who sell
0:43:11 > 0:43:15hair extensions or, at worst, it's a small add-on product.
0:43:15 > 0:43:17I just think that you've gone a little bit too far
0:43:17 > 0:43:19- and got a little bit too carried away.- OK.
0:43:19 > 0:43:21I'm out.
0:43:21 > 0:43:22Thank you.
0:43:24 > 0:43:26SHE SIGHS
0:43:33 > 0:43:37Believe it or not, more apples grown in Britain are used to make
0:43:37 > 0:43:40cider than are used for eating.
0:43:40 > 0:43:42Our final entrepreneurs want to use a few more
0:43:42 > 0:43:44apples for their new cider drink.
0:43:44 > 0:43:48They came up with the idea on a boozy night out at university
0:43:48 > 0:43:52and unusually, they still liked the idea the next morning.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54Now, they hope the Dragons will like it too.
0:44:29 > 0:44:30Hello, Dragons.
0:44:30 > 0:44:33I'm Ralph Broadbent and this is my business partner Alex Dixon
0:44:33 > 0:44:35and we're here with Victor's Drinks
0:44:35 > 0:44:38looking for £40,000 for 15% of our business.
0:44:39 > 0:44:40I first met Alex at university
0:44:40 > 0:44:43and one day we decided to try some home-brewing.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45When it was finally ready, we took it to a house party,
0:44:45 > 0:44:48and at that party it became the centrepiece -
0:44:48 > 0:44:51everyone wanted to try it, everyone wanted to know about it,
0:44:51 > 0:44:53but most importantly, everyone really liked it.
0:44:53 > 0:44:54So we sat down and chatted
0:44:54 > 0:44:58and realised there were barriers stopping people doing this.
0:44:58 > 0:45:00We looked at it and it was clear that it was too much hassle,
0:45:00 > 0:45:03there was to much expertise required and this was this image that is
0:45:03 > 0:45:06was all about your dad doing it your back garden.
0:45:06 > 0:45:09So we thought, wouldn't it be great it we created something that
0:45:09 > 0:45:12enabled people to make their own drink, so it was rewarding
0:45:12 > 0:45:17and simple enough to do it and has still got a really great taste?
0:45:17 > 0:45:21So after three years' development, we came up with this product here.
0:45:21 > 0:45:24All you need to do, is remove the cap...
0:45:26 > 0:45:28..add the sachet of yeast...
0:45:28 > 0:45:30and fill with 18 pints of warm water.
0:45:33 > 0:45:37After ten days, you can tap straight from the front of the box.
0:45:37 > 0:45:41In terms of our target market, we're looking at men between 18 and 30,
0:45:41 > 0:45:43although our product is much more gender-neutral than other
0:45:43 > 0:45:46competitors in the marketplace.
0:45:46 > 0:45:49We launched our product in October and in the first three months,
0:45:49 > 0:45:51we managed to sell 2,500 units,
0:45:51 > 0:45:54generating us a turnover of just over £30,000.
0:45:55 > 0:45:57We did this by being listed on firebox.com, which is
0:45:57 > 0:46:00the UK's largest gifting gadget website.
0:46:00 > 0:46:02We were also stocked in Hawkins Bazaar, who have over 40 shops
0:46:02 > 0:46:04and finally, we went
0:46:04 > 0:46:08and sold directly to the customers at some Christmas markets.
0:46:08 > 0:46:09I'd like to invite you to try some drinks,
0:46:09 > 0:46:11ahead of taking any questions.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14Would anyone care for one of the UK's most exciting ciders?
0:46:14 > 0:46:15Yeah, definitely.
0:46:20 > 0:46:24A spirited pitch from Londoners Ralph Broadbent and Alex Dickson.
0:46:25 > 0:46:27- DEBORAH:- Can I have some with no ice in, please?
0:46:27 > 0:46:30I'm a Somerset girl - only drink warm cider.
0:46:32 > 0:46:35They're looking for £40,000 for 15%
0:46:35 > 0:46:38of their brew-it-yourself cider business.
0:46:38 > 0:46:41But Piers Linney is in no mood for a party.
0:46:44 > 0:46:47I'm going to get straight to the point on this one.
0:46:47 > 0:46:49When I was at university, at house parties,
0:46:49 > 0:46:53waiting ten days to get to the cider was a bit of an ask.
0:46:53 > 0:46:55It looks a bit like a school project, in a way.
0:46:55 > 0:46:57What we're trying to do is focus on the people
0:46:57 > 0:47:01who are interested in having a go at making their own drink.
0:47:01 > 0:47:03So people who are planning a party that might be ten days' away -
0:47:03 > 0:47:07you're right, you can't use this if you're going to a party that evening.
0:47:07 > 0:47:08I get that, but...
0:47:08 > 0:47:11So you've got people that make cider and beer and wine,
0:47:11 > 0:47:14and are quite serious enthusiasts.
0:47:14 > 0:47:17And then you've got people that just want to buy some cider.
0:47:17 > 0:47:19And you seem to be sitting in the middle somewhere,
0:47:19 > 0:47:22which I'm not sure is a market.
0:47:22 > 0:47:25This initial party that we went to, loads of people wanted to do it.
0:47:25 > 0:47:26People were excited to hear about it,
0:47:26 > 0:47:29they wanted to know how he'd done it, where he'd been.
0:47:29 > 0:47:33- DUNCAN:- Ralph, while they were telling you how excited they were,
0:47:33 > 0:47:35while they were listening to you,
0:47:35 > 0:47:37weren't you pouring them a free drink?
0:47:37 > 0:47:39ALEX: We gave them lots of free drinks.
0:47:39 > 0:47:42Come and give me free drink all night,
0:47:42 > 0:47:43I'll tell you how exciting you are.
0:47:43 > 0:47:46What a lovely suit and tie you've got on!
0:47:46 > 0:47:48You know, I'm game tonight.
0:47:51 > 0:47:52What's the size of your market?
0:47:52 > 0:47:55We've got this interesting position where we're
0:47:55 > 0:47:56trying to find a new place,
0:47:56 > 0:47:59so sitting between the home-brew market and the drinks market.
0:47:59 > 0:48:02It's difficult to gauge how big it will be cos it is a new space,
0:48:02 > 0:48:04there aren't any products like it out there already.
0:48:04 > 0:48:06How many people in the UK home-brew?
0:48:06 > 0:48:08- I don't actually know but... - How many people in the UK?
0:48:08 > 0:48:11What's their average spend on home-brew products?
0:48:11 > 0:48:14- I don't know that but...- How big is the home-brew market in the UK?
0:48:14 > 0:48:18- I don't know that but...- How can you possibly be slightly credible?
0:48:18 > 0:48:22- The reason we're not focusing on the home-brew market...- It's irrelevant.
0:48:22 > 0:48:25You are because you are taking a home-brew style product,
0:48:25 > 0:48:30repackaging it in a very swift way and now trying to enter gifting.
0:48:30 > 0:48:33But you don't even know the size of the market in home-brew.
0:48:33 > 0:48:34I disagree with Peter.
0:48:34 > 0:48:37I think you're absolutely right, it's not home-brew
0:48:37 > 0:48:39so going through stats about the home-brew market,
0:48:39 > 0:48:41it's a complete and utter waste of time.
0:48:41 > 0:48:44You've tried to create a different product which is just which is just a fun way of...
0:48:44 > 0:48:47- Make it yourself.- ..turning up with some cider that you've
0:48:47 > 0:48:49made yourself but you don't really care what it tastes like,
0:48:49 > 0:48:51it's just so you can show your mates.
0:48:51 > 0:48:52That's a very small market.
0:48:52 > 0:48:54I don't like the product, I don't like the look of it,
0:48:54 > 0:48:56I don't like the brand.
0:48:56 > 0:48:59I think you guys are clearly entrepreneurial, capable.
0:48:59 > 0:49:02I'd go and apply those skills on a different product if I was you.
0:49:02 > 0:49:04Not for me, I'm out.
0:49:07 > 0:49:11A sobering moment for the entrepreneurs as Piers Linney
0:49:11 > 0:49:15wastes no time in saying no to a deal.
0:49:15 > 0:49:19And now Deborah Meaden has another concern to throw into the mix.
0:49:23 > 0:49:25Where does it sit in terms of price per pint?
0:49:25 > 0:49:29So, the big ones, they're £25 to buy so it's £1.25 a pint
0:49:29 > 0:49:31when it comes out the tap.
0:49:31 > 0:49:34So, what we're actually saying, if you wrap up this product,
0:49:34 > 0:49:37I think it's a little bit of fun, you take it along to a party,
0:49:37 > 0:49:40it's a lot cheaper than buying it at retail price.
0:49:40 > 0:49:46But thereby stands my problem with investing, personally.
0:49:46 > 0:49:51I don't want to invest in something that I see would encourage
0:49:51 > 0:49:55cheap drinking and you're aiming at the student end of the market.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58I don't really want to get involved in something that sends
0:49:58 > 0:50:00students out drinking, you know,
0:50:00 > 0:50:03sitting in a room drinking one of those boxes entirely on their
0:50:03 > 0:50:06own one night which is exactly what could happen, probably will happen.
0:50:06 > 0:50:09It really wouldn't matter how big you told me the market was.
0:50:09 > 0:50:12I don't want to invest in a cheap way
0:50:12 > 0:50:14of putting alcohol out to young people.
0:50:14 > 0:50:15That's it, I'm out.
0:50:18 > 0:50:22It's not good for the duo as Deborah Meaden follows her principles
0:50:22 > 0:50:26and steps aside from any part in the business.
0:50:28 > 0:50:32But Peter Jones isn't ready to give up on Ralph and Alex just yet.
0:50:35 > 0:50:38What was your job before coming up with this?
0:50:38 > 0:50:39So, our background,
0:50:39 > 0:50:42we actually have another business running music festivals.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45We've got a portfolio of six music festivals around the country...
0:50:45 > 0:50:48- OK.- ..which is successful, that's what we've used to fund these.
0:50:48 > 0:50:49What does that make?
0:50:49 > 0:50:53- In the last three years, it averages about £100,000 a year.- Profit?
0:50:53 > 0:50:56- Profit, yeah.- Wow.
0:50:56 > 0:50:57What was the last festival you did?
0:50:57 > 0:51:00The last one that we ran would have been Brownstock in Essex,
0:51:00 > 0:51:01that was in September.
0:51:01 > 0:51:03It's very seasonal, they all happen in the summer.
0:51:03 > 0:51:06- So, this year, it will be six festivals in seven weekends. - Can we get back to cider?
0:51:06 > 0:51:09No, because that business sounds a lot more exciting than this.
0:51:09 > 0:51:12- That's not what they've pitched. - Well, it doesn't matter.
0:51:12 > 0:51:13They're in the Den, they're mine.
0:51:16 > 0:51:20The news that Ralph and Alex already have a successful business
0:51:20 > 0:51:25has brought credibility to an otherwise faltering pitch.
0:51:25 > 0:51:28But the revelation has left Duncan Bannatyne feeling puzzled.
0:51:30 > 0:51:32I want to know why you're here.
0:51:32 > 0:51:35- Why are you here asking for 40,000? - Because...
0:51:35 > 0:51:38I think it's probably quite low compared to what some people
0:51:38 > 0:51:40come with in terms of the actual figure.
0:51:40 > 0:51:43What we really need is the expertise because it's an industry we've
0:51:43 > 0:51:45not operated in before and it's the contacts.
0:51:45 > 0:51:47So, you don't really need the money then?
0:51:47 > 0:51:48It's not as much about the money, no,
0:51:48 > 0:51:51it's much more about the people we bring in.
0:51:51 > 0:51:53- PETER:- You should have done a Dragons' Den first.
0:51:53 > 0:51:57You should have pitched for no money and offered 15%.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00- Why didn't you ask for no money? - I think the reason...
0:52:00 > 0:52:02One of the big things for us is we want Dragons to come in
0:52:02 > 0:52:04and be really committed to it and I think
0:52:04 > 0:52:08if there's £40,000 riding on it, it'd probably keep that focus a bit more.
0:52:08 > 0:52:10You think £40,000 will keep the focus of somebody
0:52:10 > 0:52:12like Duncan Bannatyne?
0:52:12 > 0:52:15- No, not... - He'll spend that next weekend.
0:52:15 > 0:52:16Do you know what I think?
0:52:16 > 0:52:20I think you've done so brilliantly well on your other business.
0:52:20 > 0:52:23I think this is, first of all, I think the branding is awful.
0:52:23 > 0:52:26I think it's just atrocious, actually.
0:52:26 > 0:52:27And it looks to me
0:52:27 > 0:52:30like you guys have done really well in another business
0:52:30 > 0:52:33and you've sat down and had your ten pints
0:52:33 > 0:52:34and you've come up with this idea
0:52:34 > 0:52:36and the branding in one of those blurred moments
0:52:36 > 0:52:39and then you've gone around and asked some people
0:52:39 > 0:52:42and gone to some fairs and because a whole load of people instantly
0:52:42 > 0:52:46tell you it's a brilliant idea, you believe it's a brilliant idea.
0:52:46 > 0:52:49This is not something that I want to invest in
0:52:49 > 0:52:54and I don't even think there's such a big market for it but...
0:52:54 > 0:52:55I wish you luck with it
0:52:55 > 0:52:58but I'm afraid I'm not going to invest so I'm out.
0:52:58 > 0:52:59Thanks for your time.
0:53:01 > 0:53:04Guys, I think if you invested money, it would end up being
0:53:04 > 0:53:07almost like a trophy asset cos I can't see you making money in it.
0:53:07 > 0:53:10I wish you'd pitched the music business...because
0:53:10 > 0:53:12that would be more exciting.
0:53:12 > 0:53:14So, I'm going to wish you well on your way
0:53:14 > 0:53:17but I'm not going to invest and I'm going to say I'm out.
0:53:19 > 0:53:24Could it be last orders for the brew-your-own entrepreneurs?
0:53:24 > 0:53:27Duncan Bannatyne is the only Dragon left in the round.
0:53:29 > 0:53:33What is your balance sheet looking like at the moment?
0:53:33 > 0:53:36So, um, we invested, through the years,
0:53:36 > 0:53:39we've invested about £136,000 in the product.
0:53:39 > 0:53:42I mean, in terms of the investment moving forward,
0:53:42 > 0:53:45we'd happily write that off and call it a clean slate.
0:53:45 > 0:53:48Yeah, and the moving forward, in terms of numbers of the box,
0:53:48 > 0:53:54it sells to trade at £12.50 and it costs us about £7 to make.
0:53:54 > 0:53:58- No debts in the company? - No debts, no.- Oh, no.
0:53:58 > 0:54:00I just want to ask Peter a question.
0:54:00 > 0:54:04Sorry, before he does, could I have some more drink?
0:54:04 > 0:54:07- I need some more alcohol.- Yeah.
0:54:07 > 0:54:09If this is going where I think it's going, I'm getting pissed.
0:54:09 > 0:54:11THEY CHUCKLE
0:54:12 > 0:54:15- Thank you very much.- Peter...
0:54:17 > 0:54:20..I'm seriously thinking of making an offer. Am I being stupid?
0:54:22 > 0:54:25KELLY LAUGHS
0:54:25 > 0:54:28It's a serious question, I'm asking you a question.
0:54:28 > 0:54:30How much of this have you had to drink?
0:54:30 > 0:54:32I was asking you a simple question.
0:54:32 > 0:54:34If you don't want to answer, it's OK.
0:54:34 > 0:54:38Look, it's £40,000, you spend that sort of money in a weekend.
0:54:38 > 0:54:40I don't think it makes much difference.
0:54:40 > 0:54:41OK.
0:54:41 > 0:54:44£40,000, 35% - that's my offer.
0:54:50 > 0:54:53I am very... Well, we're both very, very grateful for the offer.
0:54:53 > 0:54:55I think that is going to be too high for us.
0:54:56 > 0:54:57Make us a counter-offer.
0:54:59 > 0:55:02Well, 15% is what we were looking for.
0:55:05 > 0:55:09Did you really come here today expecting to get £40,000 for 15%?
0:55:09 > 0:55:11And did you really say,
0:55:11 > 0:55:15"Listen, Alex, whatever happens, we're not going to go to 16%."
0:55:17 > 0:55:20It's just not worth being involved in a company for 15%
0:55:20 > 0:55:23and that's the problem. I made you a really good offer.
0:55:26 > 0:55:29Um, OK. Um...
0:55:31 > 0:55:32Cheers.
0:55:32 > 0:55:35Why don't you go and think about it?
0:55:35 > 0:55:38- I might have a little chat with Alex, is that all right?- Yeah.
0:55:38 > 0:55:42- I don't want to look like... - £40,000, 35%.
0:55:47 > 0:55:49(Let's edge it down a bit. 25.)
0:55:49 > 0:55:52(I say start with 15, work it to 25,)
0:55:52 > 0:55:55(and then if we deliver, we go with that 15.)
0:55:55 > 0:55:57- Yeah?- Yeah.
0:56:05 > 0:56:07Thanks for your patience.
0:56:07 > 0:56:10What we'd propose, I don't know if you'll be interested,
0:56:10 > 0:56:13but I don't know how you feel about maybe looking at 25%
0:56:13 > 0:56:16but with a ratchet - if we hit our targets, which we can discuss,
0:56:16 > 0:56:18in the first three years, if we deliver those profit levels,
0:56:18 > 0:56:20then it would go back down to the 15%.
0:56:20 > 0:56:22What are your targets?
0:56:22 > 0:56:24So, just in terms of profit,
0:56:24 > 0:56:28we're going to deliver £30,000 this year, 120 next year and then...
0:56:28 > 0:56:30320, year three.
0:56:32 > 0:56:34I wish I hadn't gone out now.
0:56:36 > 0:56:40We have shown that we can deliver on our targets in our other
0:56:40 > 0:56:42business, we've shown that we can grow a business.
0:56:43 > 0:56:46- OK. You've got a deal.- Excellent.
0:56:46 > 0:56:49- Thank you, Duncan.- Thank you.
0:56:49 > 0:56:51- Cheers, thank you very much.- Magic.
0:56:51 > 0:56:55So, Ralph and Alex almost walked away empty-handed but,
0:56:55 > 0:57:00after a last-minute U-turn, managed to negotiate a savvy investment.
0:57:02 > 0:57:04- Nice one.- Pressure's on.
0:57:04 > 0:57:05Go for a beer now?
0:57:05 > 0:57:07- Let's get selling some kits.- Yeah.
0:57:08 > 0:57:13Duncan, low-cost drink - I think you got a good deal there.
0:57:13 > 0:57:15I think that's a really good business,
0:57:15 > 0:57:16that'll make a lot of money.
0:57:16 > 0:57:19So, you're saying I made a very good, astute investment?
0:57:19 > 0:57:22- You made a very good, astute investment, absolutely.- Thank you.
0:57:22 > 0:57:24It's going to open a lot of doors, I really hope it is.
0:57:24 > 0:57:27It's going to give us a lot more clout in the industry
0:57:27 > 0:57:29and not only is it great to have a Dragon on board,
0:57:29 > 0:57:31but we got some excellent feedback as well.
0:57:31 > 0:57:32Most importantly,
0:57:32 > 0:57:35someone can make sure that Alex works as hard as me now.
0:57:35 > 0:57:36THEY LAUGH
0:57:43 > 0:57:46Well, Duncan Bannatyne is always one to stick his neck out
0:57:46 > 0:57:50and hold out against the others and he's proved that again on this,
0:57:50 > 0:57:52another dramatic day in the Den.
0:57:52 > 0:57:56Sometimes going against the crowd can be business genius
0:57:56 > 0:57:57but sometimes plain fool-hardy.
0:57:59 > 0:58:01Join the conversation about that
0:58:01 > 0:58:06and all of tonight's pitches on Twitter using the hashtag...
0:58:08 > 0:58:12- Next week on Dragons' Den... - David, you look just worn out.
0:58:12 > 0:58:14I went on a heavy stag do at the weekend.
0:58:14 > 0:58:16- THEY LAUGH - Oh, right, OK.
0:58:16 > 0:58:19- Would you wear Fat Girl At The Back? - That's my point.
0:58:19 > 0:58:22- Fat Lass At The Back? Are you serious?- Fat Kid At The Back?- No.
0:58:22 > 0:58:24I don't think you could do the kids, could you?
0:58:24 > 0:58:26- You're basically a sales agent.- Yes.
0:58:26 > 0:58:29For an investor, that is massive, massive risk.
0:58:29 > 0:58:32Thing is, I'm crazy about marshmallows
0:58:32 > 0:58:35but these taste a bit stale.
0:58:35 > 0:58:37I'm going to make you a higher offer.