0:00:28 > 0:00:30These are the Dragons.
0:00:30 > 0:00:37Wealthy, well-connected, innovative, and influential.
0:00:37 > 0:00:42Each week, they make or break the dreams of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.
0:00:46 > 0:00:50In the Den, leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden.
0:00:51 > 0:00:53Telecoms giant Peter Jones.
0:00:54 > 0:00:58Hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne.
0:00:58 > 0:01:03Founder of her own global interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen
0:01:03 > 0:01:07and cloud computing expert and former city financier, Piers Linney.
0:01:09 > 0:01:11With thousands to lose but millions to gain,
0:01:11 > 0:01:16the Dragons are prepared to fight for that next shrewd investment.
0:01:18 > 0:01:22In the last decade, over 900 entrepreneurs faced the Dragons and
0:01:22 > 0:01:28investment offers of £14.5 million have been made in this room.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30To face them takes nerve and vision,
0:01:30 > 0:01:33so who will leave with the Dragons' money?
0:01:40 > 0:01:45Welcome once again to Dragons' Den, the place where business gets done,
0:01:45 > 0:01:48where entrepreneurs desperate for cash to build
0:01:48 > 0:01:53their companies struggle to get it from five demanding investors.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55Coming up on tonight's show...
0:01:58 > 0:02:01- Wow!- Oh, my God!
0:02:01 > 0:02:06- That's a pull-out leg.- If it comes off like that, it's dangerous.
0:02:06 > 0:02:12- Beautiful, aren't they?- Are you making money or losing money?- Er...
0:02:12 > 0:02:14I'd say...er...
0:02:14 > 0:02:17Well, well, well. You look like two likely lads, don't you?
0:02:17 > 0:02:19Thank you, I like that!
0:02:19 > 0:02:23- How old are you?- 18.- 18?- Yeah.
0:02:23 > 0:02:25- You're extraordinary.- Yeah.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28You're now saying you want £100,000 for 33%?
0:02:28 > 0:02:31- That's what YOU'RE saying. - Oh, don't let go!
0:02:34 > 0:02:36This has taken a turn I wasn't expecting it to take.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48Our first entrepreneurs have imported their idea
0:02:48 > 0:02:49from the North Pole.
0:02:49 > 0:02:53They're tapping into a consumer demand for experiences,
0:02:53 > 0:02:58buying anything from hot-air balloon rides to quad bike safaris.
0:02:58 > 0:03:01In this case, it's husky dog racing,
0:03:01 > 0:03:03brought to the banks of the river Avon.
0:03:14 > 0:03:19- Hi. I'm Vicky.- I'm Chantelle. This is Willow, who is one of the fastest dogs in the UK
0:03:19 > 0:03:22and she's also a member of Team GB.
0:03:22 > 0:03:27This is her team-mate Tamsin and together with 13 other furry friends, we are Arctic Quest Ltd.
0:03:28 > 0:03:34We are here today to ask for £100,000 for a 20% stake in our company.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37Arctic Quest offers husky rides in the UK.
0:03:37 > 0:03:42We are unique in that we will teach you how to run your own team.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45We offer rights to individuals, couples, groups,
0:03:45 > 0:03:49corporate events, hen and stag dos, children's parties
0:03:49 > 0:03:53and we also offer an educational programme into schools.
0:03:53 > 0:03:56Guests can opt to stay overnight in our traditional accommodation.
0:03:56 > 0:03:59These come with reindeer skins, wood burners
0:03:59 > 0:04:01and everything for an Arctic adventure.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04We are here today to ask you guys for an investment
0:04:04 > 0:04:06to help us buy our own land.
0:04:07 > 0:04:11We've rented the site we're on and we feel we've outgrown the place
0:04:11 > 0:04:15we're running from and we want to expand the business.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18Whilst the land will help us really extend our ride packages
0:04:18 > 0:04:20- and make more... - Now he's very chilled!
0:04:20 > 0:04:23I wish I was as calm as she is, I can tell you!
0:04:23 > 0:04:26Um, whilst the land will really help us extend our ride packages,
0:04:26 > 0:04:29we really want to REALLY utilise the land further,
0:04:29 > 0:04:31where people can come, they can camp overnight,
0:04:31 > 0:04:33bring large groups of dogs and we can cater for them.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36And also we'd like to use our trails as a training area
0:04:36 > 0:04:38for other sled dog teams.
0:04:38 > 0:04:39Um, I'm talking too much.
0:04:39 > 0:04:45So the big idea is hopefully to have the UK's leading canine
0:04:45 > 0:04:46training centre.
0:04:47 > 0:04:49So we thank you for listening
0:04:49 > 0:04:51and we offer any questions that you may have.
0:04:55 > 0:04:59A well-groomed pitch from this dog-handling duo who are looking
0:04:59 > 0:05:04to bring a taste of the Arctic, minus the snow, to the West Country.
0:05:04 > 0:05:06Beautiful, aren't they?
0:05:06 > 0:05:12They're looking for £100,000 for 20% of their husky ride company.
0:05:12 > 0:05:14Deborah Meaden, an animal lover herself,
0:05:14 > 0:05:17is first to quiz Chantelle and Vicky.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28Gorgeous dogs. It's interesting, actually, just literally,
0:05:28 > 0:05:31about three fields over from me, I've got a husky team. In Somerset.
0:05:31 > 0:05:35- Really?- Yeah. I can hear... Quite noisy, aren't they?
0:05:35 > 0:05:38- They get very excited before very they go.- I love them, I love it.
0:05:38 > 0:05:40But, yeah, husky racing, which is...
0:05:40 > 0:05:44- I hadn't realised, it's quite a big thing. Where are you based? - Gloucestershire.
0:05:44 > 0:05:45Based in Gloucestershire.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48So at the moment, what generates most of your income?
0:05:48 > 0:05:50- The rides, mainly.- The rides.
0:05:50 > 0:05:53And the accommodation came as sort of a second, because people...
0:05:53 > 0:05:58We run early in the morning in the summer so it just seemed silly not to have something for them to stay with.
0:05:58 > 0:06:00We're based on the banks of the river Avon, which is
0:06:00 > 0:06:03quite pretty and beautiful and they have a field to themselves
0:06:03 > 0:06:05where they can run dogs and do whatever they want.
0:06:05 > 0:06:08So at the moment, how big is your site? How much accommodation has it got on it?
0:06:08 > 0:06:11One yurt, and a hut which is probably the only
0:06:11 > 0:06:16hut of its kind in the UK and we have... It's seven acres, one hectare?
0:06:16 > 0:06:22The field we run off is a hectare but the actual site that we rent off is about 25 acres.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25And what... How much an acre is it, the land that you're looking at?
0:06:25 > 0:06:27- Roughly around 10,000. - It's about 10,000.
0:06:27 > 0:06:31So you've almost become like... a dog activity centre, don't you?
0:06:31 > 0:06:33Yeah, pretty much. Canine centre, yeah.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36So at the moment, are you making any money?
0:06:36 > 0:06:40OK, so this year, profit is £6,000.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43Last year, though, it was 20,000.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45When we decided the business was going to work, we can invest
0:06:45 > 0:06:51in more dogs, so we bought housing for them and things like this. We bought better equipment, a new van.
0:06:51 > 0:06:55So the first three years, it was seeing if the business was going to work,
0:06:55 > 0:06:57if there was a market for it, cos we didn't want to get all these dogs
0:06:57 > 0:07:00and not have anything to do with them, so baby steps.
0:07:02 > 0:07:04A competent start for the pair,
0:07:04 > 0:07:08as they impressed the Dragons with the potential for the canine centre.
0:07:09 > 0:07:13But Piers Linney has spotted an anomaly in their business plan.
0:07:16 > 0:07:17Hi, I'm Piers.
0:07:17 > 0:07:20So really, you're looking at it, it's a property investment,
0:07:20 > 0:07:24really, isn't it? You're looking at somebody to fund land.
0:07:24 > 0:07:25Why not use Forestry Commission land?
0:07:25 > 0:07:28I mean, I'm not sure where you are, because I use, you know,
0:07:28 > 0:07:30you see the picture, without the dog, that's me, quite often.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33It's really difficult, because there's loads of rules
0:07:33 > 0:07:36and regulations about running dogs. You can't just run them anywhere.
0:07:36 > 0:07:40And also, even though we go for a very natural image,
0:07:40 > 0:07:42you can't just chuck us in the middle of a field.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46We've spent a lot of time of where we are to give the right feel
0:07:46 > 0:07:50and if we owned our own land... I take pride in what I do, you know.
0:07:50 > 0:07:53I would want it to look as natural and as nice as it can
0:07:53 > 0:07:56but without owning that, it does limit you as well.
0:07:56 > 0:08:01OK, so we buy the land and then it doesn't work out for some reason.
0:08:01 > 0:08:05- You end up owning a field. - They're not making land any more.
0:08:05 > 0:08:09So I don't ever see a piece of land as a bad thing.
0:08:09 > 0:08:11So how are you looking at structuring that?
0:08:11 > 0:08:14Were you thinking of buying it outright?
0:08:14 > 0:08:16It would depend on the land.
0:08:16 > 0:08:20If a piece of land came up tomorrow and you were to invest
0:08:20 > 0:08:25and it was exactly 100,000, then great.
0:08:25 > 0:08:27If it was a couple of acres bigger
0:08:27 > 0:08:32and we needed to add some more money in, then we would.
0:08:32 > 0:08:36So 100k is not enough.
0:08:36 > 0:08:37Yeah.
0:08:43 > 0:08:46On that basis, you know, good luck with it but I'm out.
0:08:49 > 0:08:53Piers Linney is the first to exit, troubled that the duo aren't asking
0:08:53 > 0:08:58for enough cash yet intend to spend what they do receive buying land.
0:08:59 > 0:09:03But Peter Jones is more concerned with the price they're asking
0:09:03 > 0:09:05for 20% of their business.
0:09:09 > 0:09:12Um, you haven't really proved that yet you've got a business
0:09:12 > 0:09:15that can run on its own two feet.
0:09:15 > 0:09:21How do you possibly get to a valuation of nearly half a million pounds for your business?
0:09:21 > 0:09:26I think that the evaluation, obviously we have assets,
0:09:26 > 0:09:28- we have kennels... - And what's that worth?
0:09:28 > 0:09:35- The kennels are 10,000.- Kennels 10,000, van is 18.- So 28,000.- Yeah.
0:09:35 > 0:09:39- Yeah.- Um, there's the rigs and the equipment but they're probably...
0:09:39 > 0:09:43- All the equipment.- All the equipment, accommodation and everything would probably be 10,000.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47- So 38,000. And no loans? - No. No loans.
0:09:47 > 0:09:51- So you've got £38,000 worth of assets.- Yeah.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53But where do you get your valuation from, then?
0:09:53 > 0:09:56Um, part of the valuation comes because of us,
0:09:56 > 0:09:58our experience and our dogs.
0:09:58 > 0:10:02Being what we do, you can't just train them up and let them run.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05- It takes years...- You don't get multiple on you just because of you.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08- Yeah.- So why would you expect to come in here
0:10:08 > 0:10:10and think you can value a business that currently, I think,
0:10:10 > 0:10:13is worthless, bar 38k, for half a million pounds?
0:10:15 > 0:10:19It's a lifestyle job, OK? And if you'd said to me...
0:10:19 > 0:10:22Vicky, do you know what, I love the fact that...your honesty.
0:10:22 > 0:10:23It's honestly refreshing.
0:10:23 > 0:10:27You could've sat there and given me some sort of BS story,
0:10:27 > 0:10:30but you didn't. You made one comment that hits home.
0:10:30 > 0:10:34You're absolutely spot-on. It's a lifestyle job. Yeah?
0:10:34 > 0:10:40But in terms of an investment, the business is worth circa 50k today.
0:10:40 > 0:10:42I'm out.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46Chantelle and Vicky's pitch implodes as they are taken apart
0:10:46 > 0:10:49on their valuation of their business
0:10:49 > 0:10:52and forced to take a reality check on its potential.
0:10:53 > 0:10:56Where does that leave them with the other Dragons?
0:11:00 > 0:11:03Part of the problem is that when you live
0:11:03 > 0:11:06and breathe your own business like you have,
0:11:06 > 0:11:09it sometimes seems that you're bigger than you are
0:11:09 > 0:11:12because you started from nothing and it's got bigger
0:11:12 > 0:11:13and you're starting to make money.
0:11:13 > 0:11:17But I think that you're better renting land if you can,
0:11:17 > 0:11:20because then, you don't need to raise as much capital
0:11:20 > 0:11:25and then you can put money into what actually creates the business
0:11:25 > 0:11:30and enables you to have more people come and have the experience.
0:11:30 > 0:11:33It's really lovely what you're doing, but it's not something
0:11:33 > 0:11:36that I'm going to invest in, so I'm afraid I'm out, but good luck.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40Um, I... Do you know what, I think you both pitched very well
0:11:40 > 0:11:44and I think what the business you have is fantastic.
0:11:44 > 0:11:48I think you'll do very well, working hard,
0:11:48 > 0:11:50really enjoying it, so I wish you the best of luck but it's not an
0:11:50 > 0:11:54investment that I can get involved in so for that reason, I'm out.
0:11:54 > 0:11:55Thank you.
0:11:58 > 0:12:02With four Dragons gone, only Deborah Meaden remains.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05As someone who made a fortune in the leisure industry,
0:12:05 > 0:12:08can she find any reason to invest?
0:12:11 > 0:12:15I think that you've got opportunities in your business
0:12:15 > 0:12:18and what I would do with this is actually speak to
0:12:18 > 0:12:21some of the large parks, the caravan parks, because they've often
0:12:21 > 0:12:25got huge acreage that they're not allowed to use, you know.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28I owned them, and I had hundreds of acres of forestry that
0:12:28 > 0:12:30I physically could not build on.
0:12:30 > 0:12:34Go and see them and say, "This is how we can enhance your offering to your customer."
0:12:34 > 0:12:35It's a lifestyle business.
0:12:35 > 0:12:37For an investor, it's kind of a hobby.
0:12:37 > 0:12:40And that's not what I'm doing when I sit in this chair.
0:12:40 > 0:12:43I'm not looking for hobbies. I'm looking for investments.
0:12:43 > 0:12:46- I'm afraid I won't be investing and I'm out.- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49- Good luck.- Good luck. Thank you very much.
0:12:51 > 0:12:54Likeable but not investable.
0:12:54 > 0:12:58The entrepreneurs behind Arctic Quest leave the Den empty-handed.
0:12:59 > 0:13:03Chantelle and Vicky's exit, however, did leave the floor
0:13:03 > 0:13:05free for Dragon rides.
0:13:05 > 0:13:10- This is so cool!- If I let go... - Oh, don't let go!
0:13:10 > 0:13:13Really nice to hear that they thought the business was good,
0:13:13 > 0:13:15and keep going. That's encouraging.
0:13:15 > 0:13:18Even if we didn't get an investment, it's good to know that they
0:13:18 > 0:13:21think your business can work for us two, which it does.
0:13:33 > 0:13:37Our next entrepreneurs have a product for our nation of chocoholics.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45They think their new hot chocolate drink provides a real alternative
0:13:45 > 0:13:49to the many sugary options that currently dominate the market.
0:13:54 > 0:13:56Hi, Dragons. My name is Jim Campbell.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00I'm managing director of Ozindas Limited and these are my fellow
0:14:00 > 0:14:04co-founders, Reuben Maltby, and Simon Hasslacher, who's come...
0:14:04 > 0:14:07specially flown over especially from Colombia,
0:14:07 > 0:14:09all the way to be here today.
0:14:09 > 0:14:14We're here, seeking an investment of £150,000
0:14:14 > 0:14:18in exchange for an equity stake of 13% in the business.
0:14:20 > 0:14:24We sell a gourmet Colombian hot drinking chocolate
0:14:24 > 0:14:26made from 100% cacao.
0:14:26 > 0:14:31We have two flagship products - a 250g bar of solid drinking
0:14:31 > 0:14:36chocolate and also a 150g pouch filled with chocolate discs.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39Both of these products are made using the native Criollo bean
0:14:39 > 0:14:41of South America,
0:14:41 > 0:14:44which is widely considered to be the Rolls-Royce of the cacao bean world.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48In our first year of trading, we achieved sales of £60,000,
0:14:48 > 0:14:51and a net profit of 8.5.
0:14:51 > 0:14:55In our second year of trading, we achieved sales of £162,000
0:14:55 > 0:14:58and a net profit of 40.
0:14:58 > 0:15:00In the first quarter of our current year of trading,
0:15:00 > 0:15:05we've achieved sales of £152,000 and a net profit of 33.
0:15:05 > 0:15:09- Maybe you'd like to taste some of the product.- Yeah, definitely.
0:15:11 > 0:15:14A tempting pitch from the three entrepreneurs
0:15:14 > 0:15:17behind Hasslacher's Hot Chocolate, who are seeking
0:15:17 > 0:15:22a £150,000 in return for a 13% stake in their business.
0:15:25 > 0:15:28But how will the offering go down with Deborah Meaden?
0:15:30 > 0:15:35I think the packaging is lovely and it's not just the look and the brand but the feel.
0:15:35 > 0:15:39That actually feels like that's just chocolate, wrapped in paper,
0:15:39 > 0:15:42- you know?- We like also the smell. Yeah, because it's not a vacuum sealed, so...
0:15:42 > 0:15:46- It's worth pointing out that's actually bagasse paper. - Yeah, that's sugar cane fibre.- Yeah.
0:15:46 > 0:15:50It just feels real and there was something very pleasing when you were handing it out.
0:15:50 > 0:15:53There's something very solid and very chunky about it.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56Can you name the supermarkets you're in?
0:15:56 > 0:15:59Yeah, we're in 950 Tesco,
0:15:59 > 0:16:03um, we're in 227 Waitrose,
0:16:03 > 0:16:06we're in about 130 M&Ss,
0:16:06 > 0:16:10and then in June we're going to be in 300 Sainsbury's.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12So what are you producing it for?
0:16:12 > 0:16:17Typically, that product that you're holding there comes in about £1.27.
0:16:17 > 0:16:22And then we would sell that on for a gross margin towards 50%.
0:16:22 > 0:16:26Quite nice being able to talk to somebody in a grown-up way about their numbers!
0:16:28 > 0:16:32Generous margins and a presence in some leading supermarkets.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34It's an enticing prospect.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38But Piers Linney wants to drill down into the contractual
0:16:38 > 0:16:41relationship with their Colombian supplier.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46Talk me through the exclusive distribution agreement
0:16:46 > 0:16:50and what are the terms? Are there minimum orders, minimum commits?
0:16:50 > 0:16:52The contract is built in a flexible way and they've seen,
0:16:52 > 0:16:56or I hope they're seeing us very much as the future of their export sales.
0:16:56 > 0:17:00Have you got the licence... I'm not interrupting, have you got the licence agreement yet?
0:17:00 > 0:17:02- Yes, we do. The agreement. - Can I see it?
0:17:06 > 0:17:07Thank you.
0:17:19 > 0:17:25There is a paragraph in here which I would worry about, if I were you.
0:17:25 > 0:17:30And that basically says you have got to agree volume targets.
0:17:30 > 0:17:33I think, you know, that the supplier knows that we need to.
0:17:33 > 0:17:34We know that we need to.
0:17:34 > 0:17:37It is a legally binding contract but it is a framework agreement.
0:17:37 > 0:17:41It's a legally binding contract that you are breaching at the moment.
0:17:41 > 0:17:45We...we..we would certainly claim that we are operating within their volume expectations.
0:17:45 > 0:17:49If you create a market that isn't watertight, somebody else could say, "that's a good idea".
0:17:49 > 0:17:51They go to Colombia, pick up the same stuff,
0:17:51 > 0:17:54put a different brand time, throw some more marketing cash at it...
0:17:54 > 0:17:59- Well, they couldn't pick up the same stuff.- Well, unless that's watertight, they can.
0:18:00 > 0:18:04I think to hand over 150k now with this document
0:18:04 > 0:18:06doesn't work for me at all. I'm out.
0:18:08 > 0:18:12After a promising start, the trio are faltering
0:18:12 > 0:18:14and have lost their first Dragon.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18Now Peter Jones wants to test their commitment to
0:18:18 > 0:18:20building their business.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24If I offered you £1 million to take the business,
0:18:24 > 0:18:30- rather than by a percentage... - Well, I think...- Would you take it?
0:18:30 > 0:18:35- I think there'd be a... - That's £333,000 each.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38Well, I think... Well, I wouldn't accept that...
0:18:38 > 0:18:40those terms, so therefore it wouldn't happen.
0:18:40 > 0:18:43I think, I think, obviously there'd be a control...
0:18:43 > 0:18:45- Have you got voting rights over the other two, then?- No.
0:18:45 > 0:18:49- Well, we require three of...all three of us to agree.- Is it?- Yeah.
0:18:49 > 0:18:51- Are you full-time in this?- No.
0:18:52 > 0:18:56If this was a real, serious business between three people,
0:18:56 > 0:19:00you would not have an individual not in that business ten hours
0:19:00 > 0:19:02a day, five days a week.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05But we're going places with the situation as it currently is.
0:19:05 > 0:19:06I mean, it's working, you know.
0:19:06 > 0:19:09My opinion is, you should have been the Three Musketeers,
0:19:09 > 0:19:13not...D'Artagnan and his mate.
0:19:13 > 0:19:15And that's why I'm out.
0:19:17 > 0:19:20An exasperated Peter Jones exits the deal,
0:19:20 > 0:19:23unconvinced by the company's management structure.
0:19:24 > 0:19:28Will Kelly Hoppen or Duncan Bannatyne prove any more
0:19:28 > 0:19:31willing to convert their cash into cacao?
0:19:34 > 0:19:37I don't totally agree with Peter's view that you should be
0:19:37 > 0:19:40a full-time worker in the company and that's the only way
0:19:40 > 0:19:43anybody should invest, cos you're there when you needed.
0:19:43 > 0:19:48I am a little bit worried that you're in 1,307 stores
0:19:48 > 0:19:51and I don't think your turnover per store is all that great.
0:19:51 > 0:19:55I can't get to valuation currently of £1 million,
0:19:55 > 0:19:56so for that reason I'm out.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01I think this LOOKS like a fantastic product.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04The branding on it is great but the bottom line is,
0:20:04 > 0:20:07you're white-labelling someone else's product.
0:20:07 > 0:20:11I can't get excited about a product that really, you haven't invented.
0:20:11 > 0:20:15If you'd come in and asked for slightly less money,
0:20:15 > 0:20:19and it would be less of a risk, then maybe so, but for £150,000, no.
0:20:19 > 0:20:21So I'm sorry, but I'm out.
0:20:24 > 0:20:26Four Dragons have declared themselves out.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33The entrepreneurs' last hope rests with Deborah Meaden.
0:20:33 > 0:20:38But can she see through the thorny issue of the Colombian contract?
0:20:38 > 0:20:42I've got myself over the fact that that is not watertight
0:20:42 > 0:20:44by any stretch of the imagination and actually I love it.
0:20:44 > 0:20:46I love the look of it, I love the taste of it,
0:20:46 > 0:20:50you've set it up well, so all of that's fantastic.
0:20:50 > 0:20:54Um, can I ask for your forecast in terms of turnover
0:20:54 > 0:20:57and we will just do net profit?
0:20:57 > 0:21:01- We should comfortably hit 400,000 this year.- This year.
0:21:01 > 0:21:07- How much in terms of profit? - Um, well, it should be 125,000.
0:21:07 > 0:21:11- Next year? - It should be a minimum of 800,000.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14Broadly speaking, I expect it to double its turnover
0:21:14 > 0:21:17every year for the next several years, I mean...
0:21:17 > 0:21:18Possibly for the foreseeable future.
0:21:20 > 0:21:23Guys, I've made the... use the actual words on you,
0:21:23 > 0:21:27it's great to be having a grown-up conversation about the finances.
0:21:27 > 0:21:32You've just...I'm amazed you can't tell me the forecast figures.
0:21:32 > 0:21:37You know, we've focused on operating margins. We've seen our equity investments go up by over 1,000%.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39I don't think it's any... I don't think it's particularly
0:21:39 > 0:21:43unreasonable to expect anybody coming on board at this time
0:21:43 > 0:21:48to not be able to achieve a similar return over a six-year period.
0:21:48 > 0:21:54- Er...- I think we were worried about making lots of kind of accurate forecasts, when...- Don't be.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58- Because making accurate forecasts is a good thing to do. - But forecasts are only forecasts.
0:21:58 > 0:22:00And even make it... Yeah, but you've got...
0:22:00 > 0:22:02I've got to think that you've come up with the assumptions.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05You know, forecasts are always wrong but I need to know what you
0:22:05 > 0:22:07think the business is going to do going forward.
0:22:07 > 0:22:09Would you like to make an offer?
0:22:09 > 0:22:11Well, I'd like you to tell me how I CAN make an offer
0:22:11 > 0:22:14because I'd like you to give me the moment at which I think,
0:22:14 > 0:22:17- "Ah! I've got a decent return on my investment."- Can I just say
0:22:17 > 0:22:22with customers like Tesco, giving us an opening order of 950 stores,
0:22:22 > 0:22:28- I think they're fairly confident that we're onto something with this. - But guys, this is words.
0:22:28 > 0:22:31This has taken a turn I wasn't expecting it to take.
0:22:39 > 0:22:45You've lost me. You're not going to win me back. I'm really sorry, guys. I'm out.
0:22:48 > 0:22:54They came close but ultimately, Jim, Simon and Reuben leave the Den with nothing,
0:22:54 > 0:22:59having failed to convince a deal-hungry Deborah Meaden to do business.
0:23:05 > 0:23:06Well, that was enjoyable!
0:23:08 > 0:23:09Deborah was disappointed,
0:23:09 > 0:23:13but we'd given what we thought was a reasonable answer.
0:23:13 > 0:23:16- Well, Reuben, you fought very well, my friend.- Yeah.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20We are a team and we'll continue to grow the business.
0:23:20 > 0:23:23It wasn't to be but we have a great product
0:23:23 > 0:23:24and we'll keep taking it forward.
0:23:28 > 0:23:30With well over a billion smartphones
0:23:30 > 0:23:35and tablets being sold around the world each year, the opportunity
0:23:35 > 0:23:39to make money out of gaming apps has never been so inviting.
0:23:53 > 0:23:54Oh, my God!
0:23:55 > 0:23:57After a spectacular entrance...
0:23:57 > 0:23:59You're lucky the lift doors are open!
0:23:59 > 0:24:03..Chris Kent wanted a whopping £250,000
0:24:03 > 0:24:06for a 25% stake in his software company.
0:24:06 > 0:24:09For the last decade or so, we've been creating computer
0:24:09 > 0:24:11games for some of the world's biggest brands.
0:24:11 > 0:24:16We want to refocus the business on producing a series of original games.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19Stunt Guy 2, it's a very simple driving game.
0:24:19 > 0:24:21You're basically trying to create as much carnage as possible
0:24:21 > 0:24:25without having totalled your car.
0:24:25 > 0:24:27- Oh! - Oh! I hit the ice cream van!
0:24:27 > 0:24:32- Ambulance has just come to get me! - Ambulance just ran me over!
0:24:32 > 0:24:34I haven't heard anything you said, Chris!
0:24:36 > 0:24:37I'm going to put this down now!
0:24:37 > 0:24:41When they'd packed their toys away, it was down to business
0:24:41 > 0:24:47and Piers Linney wanted an answer to the most basic of questions for an investor.
0:24:47 > 0:24:51- Are you making money or losing money?- We released Stunt Guy 2 weeks ago.
0:24:51 > 0:24:53The revenue is minimal.
0:24:53 > 0:24:55Having said that, I think we're still making money
0:24:55 > 0:24:57because we're still doing the studio work.
0:24:57 > 0:25:00We're, I mean, obviously not on this.
0:25:00 > 0:25:03As Chris' casual approach started to unnerve the Dragons,
0:25:03 > 0:25:08Peter Jones needed to be sure this pitch was no stunt.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11You've come in with a valuation of a million pounds.
0:25:11 > 0:25:14What game have you developed that has made
0:25:14 > 0:25:16money as a result of your efforts?
0:25:16 > 0:25:19Ah, yeah! Well, there's an easy answer to that.
0:25:19 > 0:25:21All of our other games have been totally free.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24So you have no idea what this game can make?
0:25:24 > 0:25:27I think we can create that big hit,
0:25:27 > 0:25:31um, and what that is is difficult to predict.
0:25:31 > 0:25:35Big money can be won and lost in developing games
0:25:35 > 0:25:38and the Dragons thought this was one investment where
0:25:38 > 0:25:40they could get their talons burnt.
0:25:40 > 0:25:45The problem is, the kid in me is going, "Oh, go on, Kelly, have a go,"
0:25:45 > 0:25:46and the adult in me is saying,
0:25:46 > 0:25:48"You're not going to gamble that kind of money".
0:25:48 > 0:25:51For me to be able to make a decision like this,
0:25:51 > 0:25:54I need to have probably my eight-year-old sitting in the chair.
0:25:54 > 0:25:57- They'd know more about this than me. - OK.
0:25:57 > 0:26:00You can spend very little on developing a game
0:26:00 > 0:26:03and it absolutely takes over the world
0:26:03 > 0:26:07and you can spend millions on developing a game and it does nothing.
0:26:08 > 0:26:12You can. Companies do spend millions on this stuff and get it wrong.
0:26:12 > 0:26:14That's the exactly the opposite of what I want to do.
0:26:16 > 0:26:20It was left to Duncan Bannatyne, a businessman of a different
0:26:20 > 0:26:25generation, to tell the entrepreneur it was game over.
0:26:25 > 0:26:26You made a fantastic entrance.
0:26:26 > 0:26:31It was a great stunt but for me, it went downhill from there.
0:26:31 > 0:26:34- Well, I'm very sorry. - You know, you were asked a question by Piers about
0:26:34 > 0:26:37whether you were making money at the moment and you said,
0:26:37 > 0:26:40"I think we're still making money", all nice and casual
0:26:40 > 0:26:44and you stand there wearing trainers and a pair of denims.
0:26:44 > 0:26:46I'm wearing trainers and denim.
0:26:47 > 0:26:51- I'm out.- So far in the Den, a near miss.
0:26:51 > 0:26:55You lost me. You're not going to win me back. I'm out.
0:26:55 > 0:26:59And a pair that were likeable but not investable.
0:26:59 > 0:27:01I guess we were hanging on the hope
0:27:01 > 0:27:04that someone would be as passionate as we are.
0:27:04 > 0:27:06That's the gamble we took.
0:27:06 > 0:27:11But will any of our next wannabe tycoons fare any better?
0:27:11 > 0:27:15Well, well, well. You look like two likely lads, don't you?
0:27:15 > 0:27:19- Something like that.- How much money have you invested in this so far?
0:27:19 > 0:27:22- Near £100,000. - Yeah, probably, yeah.- Wow!
0:27:25 > 0:27:29- It's dangerous. Have you had any problems with them?- No.
0:27:29 > 0:27:31You've had a radiator come off the wall.
0:27:35 > 0:27:39Usually, a new business succeeds in its home market first
0:27:39 > 0:27:42and only then is it taken overseas.
0:27:42 > 0:27:46But our next entrepreneurs, Patrick Gavin and Chris Bibby - well,
0:27:46 > 0:27:48they're doing things the other way around.
0:27:48 > 0:27:51They have some sales in the US with their innovative
0:27:51 > 0:27:54combination of greeting card and vase
0:27:54 > 0:27:57and now they're hoping to make a success of it in Britain.
0:28:04 > 0:28:07- Ready, mate?- Uh-huh.- Good luck. Let's do it. Here we go.
0:28:17 > 0:28:20Good afternoon. My name is Patrick Gavin and this is Chris Bibby
0:28:20 > 0:28:22and we are Blooming Simple.
0:28:23 > 0:28:29We're here today to ask for £100,000 investment for 10% equity in our business.
0:28:29 > 0:28:33Our patented Card Vase product combines a gesture of giving
0:28:33 > 0:28:36greeting cards and flowers in one convenient gift,
0:28:36 > 0:28:38as my lovely assistant will now demonstrate.
0:28:38 > 0:28:42So simply, from its flat-pack form, you simply click the box open,
0:28:42 > 0:28:46square it off, and tuck your waterproof bag inside,
0:28:46 > 0:28:51with a separate base, peel off sticky tabs, off like so.
0:28:53 > 0:28:59Slot over the slots, stick down, stick down.
0:28:59 > 0:29:03Each Card Vase has a panel so that you can accessorise
0:29:03 > 0:29:07as you would a greeting card, so you're now ready for water.
0:29:10 > 0:29:12And ultimately, a full bouquet of flowers.
0:29:12 > 0:29:16During the early stages, we recognised the value of having a brand associated with the product
0:29:16 > 0:29:19and we was fortunate enough to work with Carte Blanche,
0:29:19 > 0:29:21who produce a range of Me to You Tatty Teddy designs.
0:29:21 > 0:29:24Since then, we've also had meetings with other global publishers
0:29:24 > 0:29:27who are also keen at looking at licensed designs.
0:29:27 > 0:29:30I know we believe we have a wide market for our product.
0:29:30 > 0:29:34We feel the ideal location, it would be in the floral section of a supermarket
0:29:34 > 0:29:37and in June of last year, via our US distributor, we launched
0:29:37 > 0:29:41a product into the US with their main focus being the grocery stores.
0:29:41 > 0:29:45They're currently working on the business model for this very market.
0:29:45 > 0:29:48Recently we've done some work with a US company called Anagram,
0:29:48 > 0:29:51who manufacture helium foil balloons.
0:29:51 > 0:29:55As you can see, we've matched the Card Vase to their popular balloon designs.
0:29:55 > 0:29:59And as you...we feel completes the full floral package.
0:29:59 > 0:30:03Now we believe we've barely scratched the surface with Card Vase but hopefully, you can see the unlimited
0:30:03 > 0:30:07potential of the product and the many revenue streams it can generate.
0:30:07 > 0:30:09We'd like to thank you for listening to our pitch
0:30:09 > 0:30:12and hopefully you can see the reason to invest is Blooming Simple!
0:30:12 > 0:30:15Now we'd like to answer some of your questions.
0:30:16 > 0:30:20A charismatic pitch from this Kent-based double act.
0:30:20 > 0:30:26They're looking for £100,000 for 10% of their personalised flower vase business.
0:30:26 > 0:30:29You're the baby of the group, I guess!
0:30:29 > 0:30:33But will any of the Dragons smell a profit?
0:30:33 > 0:30:36Peter Jones is the first to get down to the blooming basics.
0:30:40 > 0:30:43Patrick and Chris, well, well, well!
0:30:43 > 0:30:48- You look like two likely lads, don't you?- Something like that!
0:30:48 > 0:30:49- Um, I'm a bit confused.- Yeah.
0:30:51 > 0:30:52If it was my birthday,
0:30:52 > 0:30:57and somebody sent me a card in an envelope that was flat-packed,
0:30:57 > 0:31:01that I had to then make myself, and then realise that it turned into a vase,
0:31:01 > 0:31:04then pour water in it and then put flowers on it,
0:31:04 > 0:31:09I'm very confused about why that is a presentationally great gift.
0:31:09 > 0:31:12Yeah, well, currently we supply to an online florist that actually
0:31:12 > 0:31:18stocks the product and delivers a bouquet of flowers with our vase
0:31:18 > 0:31:25and since, we've had no er, issues, as to the one like you've...you've... you brought up there.
0:31:25 > 0:31:27It's more as the gesture of giving gifts as you would,
0:31:27 > 0:31:30so, say for instance where you had a baby boy or a baby girl,
0:31:30 > 0:31:34you go and give greeting cards and flowers, so instead of giving
0:31:34 > 0:31:38that as separate gifts, you would combine that as a completed gift.
0:31:38 > 0:31:42Yeah, no, I get that but I don't get the generic version of it,
0:31:42 > 0:31:44because it's a bit like sending somebody a nice picture
0:31:44 > 0:31:48- and a frame and all the glass and just throw it in a box.- Well...
0:31:48 > 0:31:51And say, "Here you go. There's a nice gift for you but make it yourself."
0:31:54 > 0:31:58A far from simple start for Chris and Patrick.
0:31:58 > 0:32:04But to help make their case, they do have something of a track record in the United States.
0:32:05 > 0:32:08So at the moment in America, where are those sold?
0:32:08 > 0:32:13Er, well, they've got placement at the moment in Walmart, Meijer hypermarkets.
0:32:13 > 0:32:18- They're basically targeting and building the business model for that target.- And they've...
0:32:18 > 0:32:19How many times have they reordered?
0:32:19 > 0:32:22Er, so over the past 18 months, they've invested in over half
0:32:22 > 0:32:28a million pieces and the last order was 129,000 pieces.
0:32:28 > 0:32:31So if that's the case, how successful has this been?
0:32:31 > 0:32:35- Tell us the numbers since 2010. Revenue net profit.- OK.
0:32:35 > 0:32:40So last year, we turned over 224,000, with a net of 12,000.
0:32:43 > 0:32:48The year before that was a turnover of 60,000 with a net loss of 13,000.
0:32:51 > 0:32:55And the year before that, we turned over 12,000 with a net loss of 95.
0:32:56 > 0:33:00OK. So you've made losses so far of 106,000.
0:33:03 > 0:33:07- And you've made a profit of 12. - So if I went into a shop...- Yeah.
0:33:07 > 0:33:10..and I bought one of these to send a friend, what would it cost me?
0:33:10 > 0:33:14£4.49 for our designs and the licensed design is £4.99.
0:33:14 > 0:33:20- So say for 4.49, what does it cost you to make them?- It cost us 48p.
0:33:20 > 0:33:23- 48p.- Yes. - That's the whole thing in the shop.
0:33:23 > 0:33:28- That's the package as you see it, yeah.- Chris, Patrick.- Yes.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31- Um, are you doing any business at all in the UK?- Yes, we are.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33So we're selling to independent florists.
0:33:33 > 0:33:36We've had quite advanced talks with Interflora, so they are looking
0:33:36 > 0:33:40to place the product and open it to their 1,800 florists for us.
0:33:40 > 0:33:44It might be good to add that we have a meeting with the floral buyer
0:33:44 > 0:33:47at Morrison's next week,
0:33:47 > 0:33:51so we are looking to obviously take advantage of the supermarket.
0:33:51 > 0:33:52- Um...- OK.
0:33:52 > 0:33:55Listen, I think that Morrisons or Tesco or somebody will take it
0:33:55 > 0:33:57and I can kind of see it in the aisle.
0:33:57 > 0:34:01The problem I have is somebody is going to go over
0:34:01 > 0:34:03- and they're going to go and buy the flowers.- Mm-hm.
0:34:03 > 0:34:06They've already clocked in their mind that's what they're spending.
0:34:06 > 0:34:10They've then got to spend more money than they would probably be
0:34:10 > 0:34:13spending on maybe a card, or they were just going to give the flowers.
0:34:13 > 0:34:17It's two purchases and I think mentally, that might
0:34:17 > 0:34:19stop someone from buying.
0:34:19 > 0:34:22Anyway, the point is, guys, it's not doing it for me
0:34:22 > 0:34:25- and I'm not going to invest so I'm out.- Thank you.
0:34:29 > 0:34:33Strong US sales and a growing footprint in the UK have
0:34:33 > 0:34:35failed to woo Kelly Hoppen.
0:34:36 > 0:34:41And Piers Linney is now ready to have his say.
0:34:41 > 0:34:43- Chris, hi. Patrick as well. - Hello there.
0:34:43 > 0:34:46When you first came out, I never thought I'd see the words,
0:34:46 > 0:34:49"It completes the floral package" come out of your mouth, um,
0:34:49 > 0:34:52so the point is, if you came downstairs on Mother's Day,
0:34:52 > 0:34:57- and that was sitting on your kitchen table...- Yes.- This, the flowers, the balloon.- Complete package.
0:34:57 > 0:34:59Your mum would be very happy about it.
0:34:59 > 0:35:04The problem is, is that to get that, you're talking about a bit of DIY.
0:35:04 > 0:35:07The finished product, I get it - it's great, actually.
0:35:07 > 0:35:10- It's literally 20 seconds.- But it is delivery that is the issue.- Yeah.
0:35:10 > 0:35:13Your business is just basically the bottom bit.
0:35:13 > 0:35:16The rest of it is Interflora, a whole different business,
0:35:16 > 0:35:17or a partner of yours.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23- Best of luck with it, guys, but I'm out.- Thank you, Piers.
0:35:25 > 0:35:29A further blow to the pair as Piers Linney declines the offer
0:35:29 > 0:35:32to invest, unconvinced of the gift's appeal.
0:35:33 > 0:35:35And to pile on the pressure,
0:35:35 > 0:35:39Duncan Bannatyne has questions about their finances.
0:35:43 > 0:35:47- OK, so the company made £12,000 profit last year.- Net profit.
0:35:47 > 0:35:50- Is that right? Net profit.- Yeah. - So did you take a salary?
0:35:50 > 0:35:53Er, my salary was only £7,000 last year.
0:35:53 > 0:35:57- So how are you putting bread on the table? Where is the money coming from?- Well, he's...
0:35:57 > 0:35:59Er, well, my savings have disappeared,
0:35:59 > 0:36:01my car's disappeared and now I've moved home.
0:36:01 > 0:36:04So if you had taken a salary, what would it have made?
0:36:06 > 0:36:12- Nothing. It wouldn't have made anything.- It would've made a loss? - Yes.- Of what? £10-20,000?
0:36:12 > 0:36:13Correct.
0:36:13 > 0:36:17So how do you get a valuation on the company of £1 million?
0:36:17 > 0:36:20We valued the company as what we feel, with all the potential,
0:36:20 > 0:36:25in the future, I know it will be worth...it will be worth considerably more.
0:36:25 > 0:36:28Do you want my money today or five years in the future?
0:36:29 > 0:36:33- Today would be good.- Today. So let's talk about today's value.- Yeah.
0:36:34 > 0:36:36Realistically, what's it worth today?
0:36:39 > 0:36:43- What it's turning over. - You think it's worth 224,000?
0:36:45 > 0:36:50- Probably slightly more. - Slightly more?- I'd say so. - How much more? 250?
0:36:50 > 0:36:55- 300.- So you're now saying you want £100,000 for 33%.
0:36:57 > 0:36:59- That's what YOU'RE saying. - No, you're saying that.
0:36:59 > 0:37:00You said it's worth 300,000.
0:37:00 > 0:37:03So you tell me what you think, realistically
0:37:03 > 0:37:07the valuation of the company is today for an investor investing today.
0:37:14 > 0:37:17Well, yeah, as you know, as you said, you've pulled us on the figures,
0:37:17 > 0:37:20so, you know, I can only agree with that.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23- I'm out. Sorry.- Thank you. Thanks.
0:37:23 > 0:37:28Guys, um, I like it. I think it's neat.
0:37:29 > 0:37:31But I think my biggest worry,
0:37:31 > 0:37:35you are miles off on valuation, to the point at which, I'd need
0:37:35 > 0:37:39more than half of this company to actually make you an offer.
0:37:40 > 0:37:44- So I'm out.- Thank you very much.
0:37:46 > 0:37:49The entrepreneurs have fallen at every hurdle
0:37:49 > 0:37:52and failed to keep the Dragons onside.
0:37:53 > 0:37:56Only Peter Jones is yet to declare his position.
0:37:59 > 0:38:02- It's not been easy, has it? - No, not at all.
0:38:02 > 0:38:08Um, I think you've got a good product. I think it's clever.
0:38:09 > 0:38:14But your whole way of going to market is flawed.
0:38:14 > 0:38:17You are never, ever, ever, and don't take this just
0:38:17 > 0:38:21as a challenge, but you are going to lose the lovely suits on your
0:38:21 > 0:38:26back if you continue to sell the way you're selling this business.
0:38:26 > 0:38:29I think you have a market opportunity that you've completely missed.
0:38:31 > 0:38:34This, as far as I'm concerned, has to be,
0:38:34 > 0:38:38when you receive your flowers, a temporary item.
0:38:38 > 0:38:40You should go to Interflora, you should license it to them
0:38:40 > 0:38:43and I think you can make a lot of money doing it.
0:38:43 > 0:38:46But I don't think the way that you're selling it is right.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49And those are the only reasons why I'm not going to invest.
0:38:49 > 0:38:54So I'm going to say I'm out but I thought you pitched really well.
0:38:54 > 0:38:59- Thank you very much. Thank you for your time.- Thanks a lot, guys. - Appreciate it. Cheers. Thank you.
0:38:59 > 0:39:02The charismatic entrepreneurs walk away without investment...
0:39:02 > 0:39:04That's a blooming shame!
0:39:06 > 0:39:11..but with some sage advice on how they could turn their business around.
0:39:11 > 0:39:13Nice one, son.
0:39:14 > 0:39:16- Good pitch, that was. - Yeah. Well done.
0:39:20 > 0:39:24- Nice guys.- Yeah.- It's funny, isn't it? It's one of those neat things.
0:39:24 > 0:39:27But you work out why anybody would use it. If they had it right, that would be great.
0:39:27 > 0:39:31It comes nowhere near the fantastic birthday present I got this year.
0:39:31 > 0:39:33Sent to me by Peter Jones.
0:39:33 > 0:39:36It's a beautiful picture of Peter Jones.
0:39:36 > 0:39:40I have it on my mantelpiece. It's signed by Peter Jones. Yeah.
0:39:40 > 0:39:42What can you get the guy that's got everything?
0:39:42 > 0:39:44A picture of me!
0:39:49 > 0:39:53Others that have tried and failed in the Den.
0:39:53 > 0:39:56I was a bit disappointed that I didn't get the investment.
0:39:56 > 0:39:59A good feedback, apart from Duncan, who fell asleep.
0:40:03 > 0:40:05Um, but, you know, that's fine.
0:40:06 > 0:40:12- I'm quite disappointed that Kelly didn't invest.- Good luck. I'm out.
0:40:12 > 0:40:15Thank you. All the Dragons are brilliant.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18I would have loved to have anyone on board. I'd love to work with them.
0:40:20 > 0:40:23I was especially gutted that Deborah didn't like the idea
0:40:23 > 0:40:25of spraying perfumes on dogs.
0:40:25 > 0:40:31I actually don't like dogs smelling of anything other than natural dogs.
0:40:35 > 0:40:39Next in were Jill and Alan Boulton from Dunbar.
0:40:39 > 0:40:42How did they fare with their solution to a common problem
0:40:42 > 0:40:46experienced by the UK's million-plus motorcyclists?
0:40:47 > 0:40:49Imagine you're driving along in your car
0:40:49 > 0:40:53and your windscreen is covered in flies or in road salt.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56Motorcyclists face that same problem every day but now,
0:40:56 > 0:41:01they can safely clean as well as wipe the visor while riding.
0:41:01 > 0:41:05Visorcat transforms the glove into a complete visor cleaning system.
0:41:07 > 0:41:11This brother-and-sister team wanted £80,000 for 10%
0:41:11 > 0:41:13of their business.
0:41:13 > 0:41:16But the Dragons were struggling to get a clear view
0:41:16 > 0:41:18of how their product actually worked.
0:41:18 > 0:41:21- Jill, you said Alan was going to demonstrate it.- Yep.
0:41:21 > 0:41:25I don't really think he did, well, not to me, anyway. Maybe I'm just being dense.
0:41:25 > 0:41:28So what you're saying is, so you wipe, that comes over,
0:41:28 > 0:41:31- so the wet sponge - that's how it works?- Yep.
0:41:31 > 0:41:33And you wipe the other way and the flap stays shut,
0:41:33 > 0:41:35so you get a dry wipe.
0:41:35 > 0:41:38- Dries it, wipes.- Yep.- Now I see it. That's a demonstration, that.
0:41:40 > 0:41:43Peter Jones, not known for his love of motorbikes,
0:41:43 > 0:41:46thought that he had come up with an even simpler solution.
0:41:46 > 0:41:48I mean, if you've got to do that,
0:41:48 > 0:41:51you've already got one hand off the wheel... It's not a wheel, is it?
0:41:51 > 0:41:55- What did you call these things? - Handlebar.- Handlebar! - Handlebars, Peter!
0:41:55 > 0:41:59What about your little sponge and a little thing that when you need
0:41:59 > 0:42:01it, you just pick up your squeegee, do that and put it back down?
0:42:01 > 0:42:03- Well, the danger is, you might drop it.- Well, no.
0:42:03 > 0:42:08It would be on a string. You haven't asked me what my invention is yet.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13Joking over, it was time for Piers Linney to rev up
0:42:13 > 0:42:17the interrogation with some questions about their sales.
0:42:17 > 0:42:21So the premise is, motorcyclists struggle with flies and water and
0:42:21 > 0:42:25whatever else and you've invented the Holy Grail, the solution.
0:42:25 > 0:42:29- Absolutely.- So why isn't there a queue of them standing outside some shops?
0:42:29 > 0:42:33Well, because we are a start-up business. Our budget has been very, very small.
0:42:33 > 0:42:36Guys, can I ask you how much money you've invested in this so far?
0:42:36 > 0:42:41- Near 100,000. - Yeah, probably, yeah.- Wow!
0:42:41 > 0:42:43You haven't done this on a shoestring.
0:42:43 > 0:42:45You've spent £100,000 doing this.
0:42:47 > 0:42:50But it was another number, a far bigger one,
0:42:50 > 0:42:54that meant it was the end of the road for this motorcycling couple.
0:42:54 > 0:42:57I'm clearly not your target audience.
0:42:57 > 0:43:02But it's absolutely, almost bananas to think that you've got
0:43:02 > 0:43:04something worth nearly £1 million.
0:43:06 > 0:43:11I just don't see a return on an £80,000 investment at any level.
0:43:11 > 0:43:14You've really, really seriously overvalued it. I'm out.
0:43:28 > 0:43:31You have to think big as an entrepreneur
0:43:31 > 0:43:35but you can, of course, think big about a small product.
0:43:35 > 0:43:39If it solves a problem and you sell a lot, you can make large
0:43:39 > 0:43:42amounts of money and that's what our next entrepreneur hopes.
0:43:42 > 0:43:46He's 18-year-old Jordan Daykin, and he has a solution to the
0:43:46 > 0:43:50challenge of firmly fixing screws into plasterboard.
0:44:20 > 0:44:21Hello, Dragons.
0:44:21 > 0:44:25My name is Jordan and I'm here from my company, Grip It Fixings,
0:44:25 > 0:44:29looking for an investment of £80,000 for 20% of my company.
0:44:29 > 0:44:33This is Craig and he'll be giving you a demonstration later.
0:44:33 > 0:44:37Grip It Fixings are a new, universal plasterboard fixing solution,
0:44:37 > 0:44:41designed for use in dot and dab, cavity walls, double thickness
0:44:41 > 0:44:45and insulated plasterboard, holding loads of up to 180 kilos per fixing.
0:44:46 > 0:44:49We have a full UK patent and a patent pending in America
0:44:49 > 0:44:52and in just eight months, we're already in over 500 stores
0:44:52 > 0:44:56across the UK and in talks with major distribution chains.
0:44:57 > 0:45:01Just going on the 250,000 new homes built per year
0:45:01 > 0:45:03and six million home moves per year,
0:45:03 > 0:45:08the total potential market for the UK exceeds 200 million fixings.
0:45:08 > 0:45:11We aim by year three to achieve a 3% market share, giving us
0:45:11 > 0:45:13a net profit of £900,000.
0:45:14 > 0:45:18As you'll see, we've got 50k weights there,
0:45:18 > 0:45:21holding on just four brown fixings.
0:45:21 > 0:45:24And we've got a kitchen cupboard here, held up by four red fixings
0:45:24 > 0:45:27and that's currently got a 20 kilo weight on.
0:45:29 > 0:45:30Here's a sample of my fixings.
0:45:34 > 0:45:37Craig will now give you a demonstration of the product.
0:45:41 > 0:45:46Looking to ease the frustrations of tradesmen and DIY enthusiasts,
0:45:46 > 0:45:51this Wiltshire teenager is seeking £80,000 for a 20% stake of his business.
0:45:54 > 0:45:56But at just 18 years old,
0:45:56 > 0:46:00how will this young entrepreneur fare with the fiery Dragons?
0:46:03 > 0:46:06- Jordan, hi. I'm Piers.- Hi, Piers. - So how have you funded development?
0:46:06 > 0:46:09Because this is not a cheap item to develop.
0:46:09 > 0:46:12It's from my father's investment, that he's loaned me, basically.
0:46:12 > 0:46:18- How much?- It stands at now £207,000. - 207. Debt or equity?
0:46:18 > 0:46:21- It's a loan between me... him and me, sorry.- Right.
0:46:21 > 0:46:24- So then I've invested the shares. - It's you and your dad.
0:46:24 > 0:46:27- Is your father actively involved in the business, or...?- He's not, no.
0:46:27 > 0:46:30He's got... He's either over in Africa or up in Bristol.
0:46:30 > 0:46:34- Over in Africa or Bristol?- Yeah. - That's quite a wide range of...
0:46:34 > 0:46:37- He's got a mining operation over in Sierra Leone.- Oh, really?
0:46:37 > 0:46:40- What kind of mining?- It's diamond and gold. So diamonds and gold.
0:46:43 > 0:46:48Wow! Great. D'you think he'd lend us some money if we invested in you?
0:46:48 > 0:46:51- He's not that wealthy, so...! - What's your background?
0:46:51 > 0:46:56- How did you come up with this? - Um, well, I'm 18 now. I was 13.
0:46:56 > 0:47:00- How old are you?- 18. I was... - 18?- I was 13 at the time. Yeah.
0:47:00 > 0:47:03Um, so yeah, I was 13 at the time. It was me and my grandad.
0:47:03 > 0:47:08My parents split up and I moved into their house and they're building me a room
0:47:08 > 0:47:12and I was being finicky and wanted curtain rails and a blind
0:47:12 > 0:47:16and we'd fit...the curtain rail was OK, we got it, we got there.
0:47:16 > 0:47:18With the blind, obviously, you've got the lintel, above,
0:47:18 > 0:47:21so when you're drilling in, we kept breaking drill bits,
0:47:21 > 0:47:23so I'm stood there holding... my grandad's got the drill,
0:47:23 > 0:47:26and we broke three or four drill bits, went down to Wickes
0:47:26 > 0:47:28and bought every fixing you could think of
0:47:28 > 0:47:32and we couldn't find a solution, so we went into the shed/workshop
0:47:32 > 0:47:36that he's got and came up with a prototype of this out of nylon.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39- What, so a real inventor's shed at the bottom of the garden?- Yeah.
0:47:39 > 0:47:41And that's where it came from.
0:47:41 > 0:47:45And then, obviously, we got it patented and then, here we are.
0:47:46 > 0:47:49- Jason, you're extraordinary.- I know.
0:47:49 > 0:47:53You know, to at 13, come up with something that needs solving
0:47:53 > 0:47:56and you and your grandfather to actually go and solve it.
0:47:56 > 0:47:57That is extraordinary.
0:48:00 > 0:48:03Praise indeed for the teen entrepreneur.
0:48:03 > 0:48:07But will his DIY invention stand up to the kind of scrutiny that
0:48:07 > 0:48:10only Peter Jones can give?
0:48:11 > 0:48:16- Can I just have a quick look at that radiator?- Yes, sure.
0:48:16 > 0:48:17I want to see how secure it is.
0:48:17 > 0:48:18Obviously, it's...
0:48:25 > 0:48:26That's a pull-out load, sorry.
0:48:28 > 0:48:30Why did it...why did it break so easily there, then?
0:48:30 > 0:48:34That would have either been as it's been left in a damp area
0:48:34 > 0:48:38overnight, or...obviously, pull-out load is 39 kilos.
0:48:38 > 0:48:41I didn't even pull strongly on that and it moved on that side.
0:48:44 > 0:48:48- Jordan, have you had any problems with them?- No.
0:48:48 > 0:48:52Well, you've had a radiator come off the wall.
0:48:52 > 0:48:54Jordan, you know, I've got kids. I know what happens.
0:48:54 > 0:48:58Radiators, you get a little bit cold, that's the first thing they do is go there.
0:48:58 > 0:49:01- The next thing they do is sit on the thing.- Yeah, and the next thing...
0:49:01 > 0:49:03The next thing, if it comes off like that, it's dangerous.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09A setback for the young entrepreneur,
0:49:09 > 0:49:12as the Den catches his invention out.
0:49:12 > 0:49:16But Duncan Bannatyne wants to return to the positives in his pitch.
0:49:18 > 0:49:21- So you've got them in 500 stores. - Yes. The main...
0:49:21 > 0:49:25That sounds absolutely fantastic. You sold how many millions?
0:49:25 > 0:49:30Up to now in the last eight months, just over 200,000 units.
0:49:30 > 0:49:32200,000 units. At what price?
0:49:32 > 0:49:36The wholesale price is 32p on average over the four fixings.
0:49:36 > 0:49:40- So how much is that in money? - In money, we've turned over 78,000 so far.
0:49:40 > 0:49:44- £78,000. Over how long?- Over the last eight months. Since last...
0:49:44 > 0:49:45What's your margin on that?
0:49:45 > 0:49:50So you've got a gross profit of 36,000 and a net of 5.5.
0:49:52 > 0:49:53What stores are you in?
0:49:53 > 0:49:55Currently in the Grafton Merchanting group,
0:49:55 > 0:49:59so you've got Buildbase, Plumbase, Jackson stores.
0:49:59 > 0:50:02We've got...which cover up sort of 300 stores
0:50:02 > 0:50:05and we're in just under 220 independents.
0:50:06 > 0:50:10Next month we're actually going to Travis Perkins, which is the 25.
0:50:11 > 0:50:14- So you've already done the deal with Perkins?- Travis Perkins, yeah.
0:50:14 > 0:50:18I've got a letter of intent, well, their 25 stores they're taking on
0:50:18 > 0:50:20with a roll-out of 700, er, the rest of the 700.
0:50:22 > 0:50:23Wow.
0:50:25 > 0:50:28Jordan fights back with reports of buoyant sales
0:50:28 > 0:50:30and a healthy turnover.
0:50:30 > 0:50:34But will Peter Jones be able to see beyond the earlier failed
0:50:34 > 0:50:40demonstration, involving the radiator on damp plasterboard?
0:50:40 > 0:50:44You're exceptional and you're only 18 and you've created this product.
0:50:44 > 0:50:46I suppose it just comes down to how,
0:50:46 > 0:50:48because of the level of complication,
0:50:48 > 0:50:52where you can get this done in terms of cost of manufacture.
0:50:52 > 0:50:54That could be your biggest stumbling point.
0:50:56 > 0:50:59Yeah, I mean, what the investment breakdown is,
0:50:59 > 0:51:02if that might help out, is there's - out of the 80,000,
0:51:02 > 0:51:05there's 20,000 for increasing stock levels for the new demand,
0:51:05 > 0:51:0910,000 is to set up a distribution warehouse
0:51:09 > 0:51:14and then it's 50,000 deposit on a machine to automate the assembly.
0:51:14 > 0:51:16That brings the cost down per fixing to 3p,
0:51:16 > 0:51:22but that costs 350,000, which makes 20 of these a minute.
0:51:22 > 0:51:26So that actually means that putting the 50,000 in creates debt
0:51:26 > 0:51:30- within the business because you'd be buying a piece of equipment that's...- Yeah.- OK.
0:51:33 > 0:51:35- Jordan, I'm going to tell you where I am.- Yeah, sure.- Um...
0:51:38 > 0:51:41It's a combination of...
0:51:41 > 0:51:47The scale of your ambition at 18 is unbelievable and it is fantastic
0:51:47 > 0:51:49but actually, that's also,
0:51:49 > 0:51:52because I know nothing about this marketplace,
0:51:52 > 0:51:55that also can work in my opinion to your disadvantage,
0:51:55 > 0:51:58because when you talk about now taking on an ultimate
0:51:58 > 0:52:03liability of 350,000 to drive your business forward,
0:52:03 > 0:52:09I then combine the level of risk and I put that in the high bracket.
0:52:09 > 0:52:11I think it's great what you've done, um...
0:52:13 > 0:52:15But it's actually too high risk for me
0:52:15 > 0:52:19- to invest in so I'm going to tell you that I'm out. - Thanks for your time.
0:52:19 > 0:52:21But I'm going to say good on you
0:52:21 > 0:52:24and a lot of people watching this will admire you.
0:52:24 > 0:52:25Thanks, Peter.
0:52:27 > 0:52:32Jordan has lost his first Dragon. Well others now follow suit?
0:52:35 > 0:52:38You're an extraordinary young man and an incredible story
0:52:38 > 0:52:42and, you know, I do build houses but I don't physically build them
0:52:42 > 0:52:44so I don't know how they're actually...
0:52:44 > 0:52:48what products people use, so I don't know enough about it, um...
0:52:53 > 0:52:56I don't think it's something that I want to get involved in
0:52:56 > 0:53:00- but I wish you luck but I'm afraid I'm out.- Thanks, Kelly.
0:53:00 > 0:53:04I mean, it's been said, hasn't it, there is some risk?
0:53:04 > 0:53:08I think the complexity adds a cost and it's a question of whether
0:53:08 > 0:53:14- the usefulness of it overcomes, you know, the extra expense.- Yeah.
0:53:14 > 0:53:17Um... I'm not going to put 80k into it. It's a bit too...
0:53:17 > 0:53:20It's a bit rich for me on this one, I'm afraid. So I'm out.
0:53:20 > 0:53:24But best of luck with this, because, fair play, you've done a great job.
0:53:28 > 0:53:32Further concerns about risk have spooked two more Dragons
0:53:32 > 0:53:34out of parting with their cash.
0:53:34 > 0:53:37Only Deborah Meaden and Duncan Bannatyne are left.
0:53:41 > 0:53:43I think you're extraordinary.
0:53:44 > 0:53:49This is a very eloquent solution to a problem that is
0:53:49 > 0:53:52solved in various ways but not one of them, do you think,
0:53:52 > 0:53:56- "OK, that's it, that's great."- Yeah.
0:53:56 > 0:54:00And I can see that tradesmen, it would make it quicker,
0:54:00 > 0:54:02easier, safer - all of those things, I get that.
0:54:02 > 0:54:06- I also get the DIY market.- Yeah.
0:54:06 > 0:54:08It will have a lot more confidence in putting that into
0:54:08 > 0:54:11and I can also see, there are areas that you would use it,
0:54:11 > 0:54:14that you couldn't use the existing solutions to a problem.
0:54:14 > 0:54:19You know, and I'm just thinking myself, in the caravan industry, I just think,
0:54:19 > 0:54:23my goodness, if only this was available when they were actually putting the wall unit on them,
0:54:23 > 0:54:27because that's entirely made of plasterboard, you know.
0:54:27 > 0:54:32So, you know, I sit here and think there are many opportunities.
0:54:32 > 0:54:33Um...
0:54:38 > 0:54:39So...
0:54:39 > 0:54:41I'm going to offer you all of the money.
0:54:43 > 0:54:46- Thanks.- And I want...
0:54:52 > 0:54:5430% of the business.
0:54:57 > 0:54:59Jordan has his first offer.
0:55:00 > 0:55:04Now Duncan Bannatyne, who was so impressed by his sales,
0:55:04 > 0:55:09has the chance to give Deborah Meaden a run for her money.
0:55:09 > 0:55:14Um, Jordan, I think it's fantastic that at 18 years old, you can
0:55:14 > 0:55:17come in front of us with an invention. I think it's great.
0:55:18 > 0:55:22I'm just a little bit concerned that it isn't all that much better
0:55:22 > 0:55:24than what is already out there in the market.
0:55:24 > 0:55:26And it isn't that much of an improvement.
0:55:26 > 0:55:30Maybe an alternative rather than an improvement. Um...
0:55:31 > 0:55:34And, you know, it could be worth a punt,
0:55:34 > 0:55:38but I wouldn't even try and beat the offer that Deborah made.
0:55:39 > 0:55:43- That's all right. Thanks. - But sorry, I'm out.- Thanks.
0:55:48 > 0:55:51Right. Thanks for the offer.
0:55:51 > 0:55:55Would you be willing to meet me halfway at 25%?
0:55:58 > 0:55:59Um...
0:56:03 > 0:56:10I think that meeting you halfway
0:56:10 > 0:56:13would be a good demonstration to both of us
0:56:13 > 0:56:18that we're starting on a very good foot on our business relationship,
0:56:18 > 0:56:20so I'm very happy to meet you halfway
0:56:20 > 0:56:24because I'd like this to start off as a partnership.
0:56:24 > 0:56:28- Well, I'd like to accept your offer. - Excellent! There you go. Well done.
0:56:28 > 0:56:31- Very good. Very good. - Thanks for your time, Dragons.
0:56:31 > 0:56:34- Jordan, well done.- Thanks, Peter. - Great job.- Thanks.
0:56:34 > 0:56:37Uncharacteristically for Deborah Meaden,
0:56:37 > 0:56:39she allows this budding entrepreneur to
0:56:39 > 0:56:43negotiate her down and as Jordan walks away with £80,000 of investment...
0:56:43 > 0:56:44Go and sit in the chair, Deborah!
0:56:44 > 0:56:47- I'm going to go and sit on the chair.- But you're light!
0:56:47 > 0:56:51..his new business partner decides to turn teenage herself.
0:56:53 > 0:56:55Obviously, when they found out I was 18,
0:56:55 > 0:56:58it did change everyone's reaction in the Den. Even Peter.
0:56:58 > 0:57:04And then when Deborah invested, it was a shock, really. I mean, wow!
0:57:04 > 0:57:09I didn't really know what to say, really. I was a bit speechless after all that. No, it was brilliant.
0:57:21 > 0:57:25So chocolate drinks and husky rides, motorbike accessories
0:57:25 > 0:57:29and paper vases - such varied products
0:57:29 > 0:57:33but all faced the same thorny old problem this week - valuation.
0:57:33 > 0:57:37Yet it was one that Jordan Daykin at least wasn't going to stumble on.
0:57:37 > 0:57:40Well done to him. Would you invest in his
0:57:40 > 0:57:44or any of the other businesses in the Den tonight?
0:57:44 > 0:57:47Well, you can join the conversation about the pitches on Twitter
0:57:47 > 0:57:50using the hashtag #dragonsden.
0:57:53 > 0:57:54Coming up next week...
0:57:54 > 0:57:56What are my pants doing up there?
0:57:58 > 0:58:00Do you know, sometimes I sit in this chair and I just think,
0:58:00 > 0:58:03people come in here and think we've all got "mug" written on our heads.
0:58:03 > 0:58:06- You've wasted three years of your life.- You said that last time.
0:58:06 > 0:58:10- I don't care, but... - That's six years now!
0:58:10 > 0:58:15I think this is the first time that we've been pitched a really great product by a multimillionaire.
0:58:17 > 0:58:20Right, well, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:58:20 > 0:58:21Kelly's just gazumped me.