0:00:08 > 0:00:09Wealthy...
0:00:12 > 0:00:14..astute,
0:00:14 > 0:00:17innovative,
0:00:17 > 0:00:19fearless
0:00:19 > 0:00:21and shrewd.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25These are the Dragons.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33The heat is on in the Den.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35Together with formidable business giants
0:00:35 > 0:00:39Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden are...
0:00:39 > 0:00:42Global fashion tycoon, with over 40 years retail experience,
0:00:42 > 0:00:44Touker Suleyman.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48The woman who turned her passion for food and drink
0:00:48 > 0:00:52into a multi-million-pound business empire, Sarah Willingham.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56And the man who sold his online greeting cards business
0:00:56 > 0:00:59for £120 million, Nick Jenkins.
0:01:02 > 0:01:07For entrepreneurs, it's the toughest business pitch of their lives.
0:01:07 > 0:01:09Do they have what it takes to face the Dragons?
0:01:16 > 0:01:19Welcome back to Dragons' Den.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21Open for business once again.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25As ever, the stakes for our cash-hungry entrepreneurs are high.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28Succeed, and depart with the financial backing
0:01:28 > 0:01:31of a multi-millionaire Dragon investor.
0:01:31 > 0:01:34Or fail, and leave with nothing.
0:01:34 > 0:01:36Coming up on tonight's show...
0:01:36 > 0:01:41SIRENS WAIL
0:01:41 > 0:01:43I feel a little bit like I have just...
0:01:43 > 0:01:46Somebody is trying to sell me snake oil.
0:01:46 > 0:01:50Why would you want to take on that enormous responsibility?
0:01:50 > 0:01:51I'm flabbergasted.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56So, you want me to take MY money
0:01:56 > 0:01:58from MY children, shall we say,
0:01:58 > 0:02:01to give to you?
0:02:01 > 0:02:03I suppose that's one way of putting it, yes.
0:02:03 > 0:02:05My fellow Dragons have had an issue
0:02:05 > 0:02:07with, perhaps, trying to put this together.
0:02:07 > 0:02:08I don't.
0:02:08 > 0:02:10I'm going to make you an offer.
0:02:11 > 0:02:12Did that just happen?!
0:02:16 > 0:02:18First to face the Dragons,
0:02:18 > 0:02:20a beauty salon owner
0:02:20 > 0:02:22who says she has what could be called
0:02:22 > 0:02:24the Holy Grail of hair care -
0:02:24 > 0:02:26a product which can prevent grey hair.
0:02:35 > 0:02:39Anybody who hears about X-grey,
0:02:39 > 0:02:41they get so excited and they just say,
0:02:41 > 0:02:43"Oh, my God, when can I have some?"
0:02:46 > 0:02:49I believe it has got the potential to be absolutely huge.
0:02:51 > 0:02:53There has been times when I thought,
0:02:53 > 0:02:56"I'm going to get five offers."
0:02:56 > 0:02:59I just do not know what's going to happen when I go in there,
0:02:59 > 0:03:01but I'm going to give it my best shot.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13Hello, Dragons, my name is Sajda
0:03:13 > 0:03:16and I am owner and founder of X-grey.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20I am looking for a £50,000 investment
0:03:20 > 0:03:23in return for 10% of my company.
0:03:24 > 0:03:27X-grey is innovation at its best,
0:03:27 > 0:03:31consisting of two unique formulated products,
0:03:31 > 0:03:34currently not available on the market today.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38I call my products X-grey Prevention and X-grey Chroma.
0:03:39 > 0:03:41Market research has shown
0:03:41 > 0:03:46that the number-one concern for men over the age of 40 is going grey.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50What sets me apart from my competitors is,
0:03:50 > 0:03:53firstly, there is no topical product
0:03:53 > 0:03:57on the market for the prevention of grey hair, and,
0:03:57 > 0:04:01secondly, my unique selling point for X-grey Chroma are...
0:04:01 > 0:04:04It only needs to be applied for five minutes maximum
0:04:04 > 0:04:07for 100% grey-hair coverage.
0:04:07 > 0:04:11It does not cause any temporary staining to the skin,
0:04:11 > 0:04:13has multiple applications,
0:04:13 > 0:04:17and does not require any prepping or mixing prior to use.
0:04:18 > 0:04:20I have spent the last 18 months
0:04:20 > 0:04:22and £40,000 of my own money
0:04:22 > 0:04:24to help develop these products.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28Dragons, when you look in the mirror
0:04:28 > 0:04:30and you can see your grey hairs,
0:04:30 > 0:04:32think X-grey.
0:04:32 > 0:04:33Thank you for listening.
0:04:33 > 0:04:35I am just going to give you some products
0:04:35 > 0:04:37before I can take some questions.
0:04:39 > 0:04:43A dual offering from Leeds-based Sajda Rasheem.
0:04:43 > 0:04:45- This is the woman's range. - Thank you.
0:04:45 > 0:04:46Two products.
0:04:46 > 0:04:50One for dyeing, and the other for preventing grey hair.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54Sajda is looking for £50,000
0:04:54 > 0:04:57in return for a 10% stake in her business.
0:04:57 > 0:04:59Preventing grey hair? I just...
0:05:02 > 0:05:05..but Peter Jones wants to clarify
0:05:05 > 0:05:06exactly what's on the table.
0:05:09 > 0:05:11Sajda, you have got a lot more product up there,
0:05:11 > 0:05:15but you are mainly a colouring
0:05:15 > 0:05:17hair product, is that right?
0:05:17 > 0:05:20And also a topical product
0:05:20 > 0:05:23for the prevention of grey hair.
0:05:23 > 0:05:24Tell me about that.
0:05:24 > 0:05:27What have you got that can prove that you have a product
0:05:27 > 0:05:29that prevents grey hair?
0:05:29 > 0:05:31It's X-grey Prevention.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34It has a combination of three active ingredients.
0:05:34 > 0:05:36What it does is, it mimics
0:05:36 > 0:05:39the Alpha-Melanocyte stimulating hormone,
0:05:39 > 0:05:40which we already have in our body,
0:05:40 > 0:05:42which is responsible
0:05:42 > 0:05:46for rebuilding the melanoma pigment we have in our skin and hair.
0:05:48 > 0:05:50Wow, this is sounding interesting.
0:05:50 > 0:05:52So, when is the best time for me to take it?
0:05:52 > 0:05:55My age range that I would be looking for prevention
0:05:55 > 0:05:58would be from 25 upwards,
0:05:58 > 0:06:00depending on when...
0:06:00 > 0:06:02If they see the first grey hair coming through,
0:06:02 > 0:06:05that would be when you would start using it.
0:06:07 > 0:06:09If Sajda has genuinely discovered
0:06:09 > 0:06:11a way of preventing grey hairs,
0:06:11 > 0:06:13then her fortune could be made...
0:06:15 > 0:06:18..but Deborah Meaden will clearly take some convincing.
0:06:24 > 0:06:27I can't get beyond the fact that...
0:06:27 > 0:06:31I feel a little bit like somebody is trying to sell me snake oil.
0:06:34 > 0:06:35I just want to understand
0:06:35 > 0:06:38how you can backup a claim that says,
0:06:38 > 0:06:40"This prevents people going grey."
0:06:42 > 0:06:43Because it mimics the
0:06:43 > 0:06:45Alpha-Melanocyte stimulating hormone.
0:06:45 > 0:06:48Please don't just keep repeating long words to me,
0:06:48 > 0:06:51cos you said that in the first place.
0:06:51 > 0:06:54- In terms of the actual testing of the product...- Yep.
0:06:54 > 0:06:57..that allows you to make claims to say this prevents -
0:06:57 > 0:06:59and this isn't covering up -
0:06:59 > 0:07:01this is actually saying that our hair colour,
0:07:01 > 0:07:05our own hair colour - we prevent losing it, it doesn't go grey.
0:07:05 > 0:07:07What is the testing that has been done on that?
0:07:07 > 0:07:09I have done an efficacy study,
0:07:09 > 0:07:11which has been done by a Chinese company,
0:07:11 > 0:07:14and I also have the cosmetics company's
0:07:14 > 0:07:16ex-vivo trials, as well, with me.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19- Have you got those here? - Yes. Would you like to see them?
0:07:30 > 0:07:33So, this is the efficacy study that we have done.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38And, inside here, which is a lot of reading,
0:07:38 > 0:07:41is the one from the main cosmetic company.
0:07:44 > 0:07:47What is an efficacy study from a Chinese company?
0:07:47 > 0:07:48What does that actually mean?
0:07:48 > 0:07:52So, the efficacy study is to see if the product actually works.
0:07:52 > 0:07:53The age range of the volunteers,
0:07:53 > 0:07:56how many grey hairs they had when they started using it,
0:07:56 > 0:07:57day 14, day 28.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00- So, how many people did you test it on?- 50.
0:08:00 > 0:08:01Over what period of time?
0:08:01 > 0:08:0328 days.
0:08:03 > 0:08:04What happened during those 28 days?
0:08:04 > 0:08:08There was an increase for the people who were younger -
0:08:08 > 0:08:10so the early stages of greying hair.
0:08:10 > 0:08:14So, if they had, let's say, four grey hairs out of 96,
0:08:14 > 0:08:19by day 28, some of them had 100% back to their natural hair colour.
0:08:22 > 0:08:27Sajda believes that she has the science to support her claims...
0:08:27 > 0:08:29but Deborah Meaden is curious
0:08:29 > 0:08:31as to why such a revolutionary product
0:08:31 > 0:08:34has taken so long to hit the shelves.
0:08:40 > 0:08:44- Sajda, this has been out since 2012, hasn't it?- Yes.
0:08:44 > 0:08:48So, in three years, nobody has bothered to mention the fact
0:08:48 > 0:08:50that there is actually a product out there
0:08:50 > 0:08:52that actually stops the greying of hair.
0:08:52 > 0:08:55Do you not find that slightly odd?
0:08:55 > 0:08:57No, not at all.
0:08:57 > 0:08:58Why is that?
0:08:58 > 0:09:01Because...
0:09:01 > 0:09:04Hair-loss, to give you an example...
0:09:04 > 0:09:06People don't jump on the bandwagon straightaway.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08You have got to be kidding!
0:09:08 > 0:09:09You have got to be kidding.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13The person who actually, genuinely,
0:09:13 > 0:09:17comes up with something that can prevent grey hairs
0:09:17 > 0:09:20is going to be unbelievably wealthy.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23They are going to be sitting in this chair, not in here pitching.
0:09:25 > 0:09:29What makes me really, really cross about this is,
0:09:29 > 0:09:31I absolutely cannot believe it works.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34The list... The safety hazard data sheet is...
0:09:34 > 0:09:36disgraceful.
0:09:37 > 0:09:40It reads like a horror story.
0:09:40 > 0:09:43Then I get to how it's tested.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49It is tested on rabbit eyes.
0:09:49 > 0:09:50That's the glycerine.
0:09:50 > 0:09:54Inhalation of oral...for the mouse.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57And rabbit skin.
0:09:59 > 0:10:01It is not tested on animals.
0:10:01 > 0:10:03There is one ingredient...
0:10:03 > 0:10:05- That's tested on animals. - ..that's raw materials...
0:10:05 > 0:10:08- Which has been tested in 2012. - That is tested on animals.
0:10:08 > 0:10:10- It says it is tested on animals. - Absolutely.- So, you can stand here
0:10:10 > 0:10:13and say it is not tested on animals, this says it is tested on animals.
0:10:13 > 0:10:15Yeah.
0:10:22 > 0:10:26This type of thing makes me really cross.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30You are doing it unethically,
0:10:30 > 0:10:32you're making claims that you cannot possibly make
0:10:32 > 0:10:33and you're trying to pull people
0:10:33 > 0:10:36into buying a product that cannot do its job.
0:10:38 > 0:10:41If I am wrong, I will stand up publicly and I will say it,
0:10:41 > 0:10:43but I am not.
0:10:45 > 0:10:47I'm out.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55An incensed Deborah Meaden has turned down the deal...
0:10:56 > 0:11:00..and something about the manufacturing process
0:11:00 > 0:11:02is troubling Touker Suleyman.
0:11:06 > 0:11:09- I just want to ask you a simple question.- Yeah.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13You developed this in some lab or some way...
0:11:13 > 0:11:14No, I didn't develop it.
0:11:14 > 0:11:18Sorry. I had a formulations team and a manufacturer develop it for me.
0:11:18 > 0:11:19Fine. Whichever.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22Do you honestly believe that,
0:11:22 > 0:11:24if they knew what they had here,
0:11:24 > 0:11:27that they wouldn't be shouting about it in the whole of America?
0:11:27 > 0:11:30Absolutely, but I work with a manufacturer
0:11:30 > 0:11:32who doesn't do any marketing.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35He only manufacturers. He doesn't have the time for marketing.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37It's like...
0:11:37 > 0:11:39If you said to anybody in the world,
0:11:39 > 0:11:43- "I can stop you going bald," and we have had all that...- Yep.
0:11:43 > 0:11:45..all a sudden, the business would be worth
0:11:45 > 0:11:47billions before you even start.
0:11:50 > 0:11:53- Aren't you ripping off somebody else's product?- Not at all.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56- But they are the manufacturer. - This is what they do.
0:11:56 > 0:11:58- This is what they do. - If they are the manufacturer
0:11:58 > 0:12:00and they have spent all of this money researching this
0:12:00 > 0:12:02and little old you come along
0:12:02 > 0:12:06and say, "Do you know what? I'll take that product
0:12:06 > 0:12:09"and I'm going to go and develop my own brand."
0:12:09 > 0:12:12What they do is, they make the innovative product.
0:12:12 > 0:12:14Then the big boys - let's say if it's L'Oreal
0:12:14 > 0:12:17or Johnson & Johnston or little old me - will go
0:12:17 > 0:12:19and we'll purchase the formulation that they have
0:12:19 > 0:12:22and that is how they make their business.
0:12:22 > 0:12:26I, then, have increased the formulation by six times
0:12:26 > 0:12:28to a 3%, which costs a lot more.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30So, I own the formulations.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34So you have increased the formula
0:12:34 > 0:12:37and now you have come up with this Eureka piece.
0:12:39 > 0:12:40Yep.
0:12:44 > 0:12:46I'm going to tell you where I am very quickly,
0:12:46 > 0:12:50because this is sort of a bold statement.
0:12:50 > 0:12:51Yep.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53The miracle cure...
0:12:54 > 0:12:56I just don't buy into it...
0:12:59 > 0:13:00..so I'm going to say that I'm out.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06Further disappointment for Sajda
0:13:06 > 0:13:10as Peter Jones dismisses her claims.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13Will Sarah Willingham or Nick Jenkins
0:13:13 > 0:13:15show any more faith in her anti-greying miracle?
0:13:17 > 0:13:22This is, globally, an absolutely massive market.
0:13:22 > 0:13:24These companies throw hundreds of millions at formulating
0:13:24 > 0:13:28the right product to solve that particular problem.
0:13:28 > 0:13:30It just seems too extraordinary to be true,
0:13:30 > 0:13:32I just can't get past it.
0:13:32 > 0:13:33I'm out.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41I think you've come in here and I think you're a chancer.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45I do not believe that this works, and, exactly like Deborah,
0:13:45 > 0:13:49I will also stand up publicly and apologise if I'm wrong,
0:13:49 > 0:13:51but I don't believe for a second that I am.
0:13:53 > 0:13:55I'm out.
0:13:55 > 0:13:56Thank you.
0:13:59 > 0:14:02Four Dragons have rejected Sajda's business,
0:14:02 > 0:14:06all unconvinced of her product's ability to deliver on its promises.
0:14:08 > 0:14:12With only retail giant Touker Suleyman remaining,
0:14:12 > 0:14:14she is a hair's breadth from failure.
0:14:17 > 0:14:21Sajda, I think you believe...
0:14:22 > 0:14:23..what you're told.
0:14:25 > 0:14:27In reality, you are making
0:14:27 > 0:14:29all these presumptions...
0:14:31 > 0:14:33Wake up, dream's over.
0:14:37 > 0:14:39I'm out.
0:14:39 > 0:14:41Thank you very much, Dragons.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50Sajda must leave the Den with nothing.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54But despite the mauling she's just received,
0:14:54 > 0:14:58her belief in her product remains unbroken.
0:14:58 > 0:14:59They're so going to regret that.
0:15:02 > 0:15:05- I do hope we're not wrong... - If we are...
0:15:05 > 0:15:08..because we have just turned down billions if we are.
0:15:09 > 0:15:14I'm really disappointed that they actually thought I was a chancer.
0:15:14 > 0:15:17I have a really good name in my industry.
0:15:17 > 0:15:21I am waiting for the day when Sarah and Deborah stand up publicly
0:15:21 > 0:15:23and apologise to me,
0:15:23 > 0:15:26because I have got a phenomenal product.
0:15:37 > 0:15:42Hoping they have a product which will provoke a more favourable reaction
0:15:42 > 0:15:46are Gary McDonough, Laurent Gould and Ben Greenock.
0:15:46 > 0:15:48Everything's going to be OK.
0:15:51 > 0:15:55The entrepreneurial trio believe in wearing their hearts
0:15:55 > 0:15:57firmly on their sleeves.
0:15:57 > 0:16:01We're pretty confident that we're going to get investment today.
0:16:01 > 0:16:02For me, I like Nick Jenkins.
0:16:04 > 0:16:07I just like the fact that he scales up a business from scratch...
0:16:07 > 0:16:10to exit for millions.
0:16:10 > 0:16:12Nick Jenkins for me, too.
0:16:12 > 0:16:14So, if you're listening, Nick...
0:16:14 > 0:16:18- OK, let's do this.- All right. - Let's go.- Hands in the middle.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32Hi, I am Gary, and I'm the co-founder of Double.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36I am here today with my two fellow co-founders, Ben and Laurent,
0:16:36 > 0:16:43to ask you for £75,000 in exchange for 10% equity of our company.
0:16:43 > 0:16:46Double is a location-based dating app, but for double dates.
0:16:46 > 0:16:48It allows you to sign up with a friend
0:16:48 > 0:16:51and then find other pairs nearby.
0:16:51 > 0:16:54Double dates are inherently more fun, due to group dynamics,
0:16:54 > 0:16:56there is less chance of awkward silences,
0:16:56 > 0:16:58and safer due to safety in numbers.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01Our vision at Double is to make dating fun
0:17:01 > 0:17:03and safe for our generation.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05- Over to Ben for a demo.- Nice one.
0:17:07 > 0:17:09How are you doing? So, you want to go on a double date,
0:17:09 > 0:17:10but how does it work?
0:17:10 > 0:17:12So, the first thing you see is the home screen
0:17:12 > 0:17:14that shows you pairs nearby.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16Before you can like or pass these pairs,
0:17:16 > 0:17:18you need to double up with a friend.
0:17:18 > 0:17:21You can see here, I've doubled up with Gary
0:17:21 > 0:17:24so I can go back and like, and pass, pairs.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27So, if a pair you've liked likes you back, that's a match.
0:17:27 > 0:17:29That create a group conversation
0:17:29 > 0:17:31between the four users within the app.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33If I click on Lucy and Flick...
0:17:33 > 0:17:36So, me and Gary, and Lucy and Flick can have a chat,
0:17:36 > 0:17:37get some banter going,
0:17:37 > 0:17:41find out what we like - but most importantly arrange a double date.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43- Great demo, Ben.- Thank you.
0:17:43 > 0:17:48The online dating industry is growing at a rate of 5-10% per year.
0:17:48 > 0:17:53By 2016, it is going to have over 100 million users in the space.
0:17:53 > 0:17:55At present, there is no one app
0:17:55 > 0:17:58that offers a group dating solution
0:17:58 > 0:18:01or the ability to facilitate double dates.
0:18:01 > 0:18:03So, Dragons,
0:18:03 > 0:18:06we want to double up with you.
0:18:06 > 0:18:08Together, we can be a part of what the Mail Online
0:18:08 > 0:18:11and Marie Claire are calling the next Tinder.
0:18:11 > 0:18:12Thank you very much,
0:18:12 > 0:18:15and look forward to answering any of your questions.
0:18:16 > 0:18:18A new take on online dating
0:18:18 > 0:18:22from Gary McDonough, Laurent Gould and Ben Greenock,
0:18:22 > 0:18:27who are seeking £75,000 in return for a 10% stake in their company.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32Self-confessed romantic Touker Suleyman gets straight to the point.
0:18:36 > 0:18:40- I am the only bachelor Dragon here. - Oh!- Perfect.
0:18:40 > 0:18:42But I must admit,
0:18:42 > 0:18:46I have never been on a online date.
0:18:46 > 0:18:48Take me through the experience of why,
0:18:48 > 0:18:50if I want a date with somebody,
0:18:50 > 0:18:53I'd want to share with two others.
0:18:53 > 0:18:54OK, so, I would say to that,
0:18:54 > 0:18:57if you haven't experienced online dating for yourself,
0:18:57 > 0:18:58as you freely admit,
0:18:58 > 0:19:00things can get awkward and intimidating quite fast.
0:19:00 > 0:19:03So, if you're with a friend, it mitigates these risks.
0:19:03 > 0:19:05I mean, with all due respect,
0:19:05 > 0:19:07I wouldn't necessarily say you're our target demographic
0:19:07 > 0:19:10in regards to, not necessarily your age -
0:19:10 > 0:19:11that wasn't an offensive comment...
0:19:11 > 0:19:14Are you saying I'm too old?
0:19:14 > 0:19:16No, you're saying you're confident.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18So, you're saying, "I'm confident enough to go on a first date."
0:19:18 > 0:19:20There's one third of people out there
0:19:20 > 0:19:23who aren't confident enough to go on these dates.
0:19:23 > 0:19:26That's the target demographic that we're trying to address.
0:19:26 > 0:19:28- Guys, what's with the suits? - The suits...
0:19:28 > 0:19:30We're a young, dynamic, fun company
0:19:30 > 0:19:33and we wanted to wear something that reflects our brand.
0:19:33 > 0:19:34You want to stand out from the crowd,
0:19:34 > 0:19:36you want to be the purple cow in the field.
0:19:36 > 0:19:38Why would you call a company MoonPig?
0:19:38 > 0:19:39If you want to stand out, be different.
0:19:39 > 0:19:42That's because it was his nickname at school.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45And this is the only suit I own.
0:19:45 > 0:19:47I noticed you were like...
0:19:47 > 0:19:50- "Let's do this" and your fist pumping, what is that?- Fist-bumping.
0:19:50 > 0:19:51It showcases the teamwork.
0:19:51 > 0:19:53We're in it together. It's the teamwork.
0:19:53 > 0:19:55But also, it's a little fun.
0:19:55 > 0:19:58I mean, we're wearing these suits, so it doesn't make sense
0:19:58 > 0:20:00to come here and give an incredibly dry presentation.
0:20:00 > 0:20:03You want to have fun with it.
0:20:03 > 0:20:06Guys, are you having people think that it's a swinging site?
0:20:06 > 0:20:09That has come up once or twice.
0:20:09 > 0:20:10Yeah. Absolutely.
0:20:10 > 0:20:12But, hey, that's a whole new market.
0:20:12 > 0:20:14I mean, it was the first thing I thought.
0:20:14 > 0:20:19- Don't anyone read anything into that.- We do not encourage it.
0:20:19 > 0:20:22That was the fastest backpedal I have ever seen in the Den.
0:20:22 > 0:20:23"Not really, I didn't mean that."
0:20:23 > 0:20:26DEBORAH LAUGHS
0:20:26 > 0:20:30Chemistry in the Den, as the entrepreneurial trio
0:20:30 > 0:20:32make a positive first impression.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35Touker Suleyman wants to find out
0:20:35 > 0:20:38how they intend to convert flirting into finance.
0:20:41 > 0:20:44If I want to join - not that I do, by the way -
0:20:44 > 0:20:47- but if I want to join...- You do.
0:20:51 > 0:20:54What will you charge? How do you make your money?
0:20:54 > 0:20:57At the moment, the app is free, and it's always going to be free,
0:20:57 > 0:20:59but we aim to introduce a premium model this summer.
0:20:59 > 0:21:01We're already working on it.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03At present, you can like or dislike people anonymously,
0:21:03 > 0:21:06but if you really like someone, if someone catches your eye,
0:21:06 > 0:21:08you can then send them a notification of interest.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11What we would do is charge the user for that notification of interest.
0:21:11 > 0:21:13Give me a shape of what that's going to look like.
0:21:13 > 0:21:16- In terms of financial projections? - Yeah.
0:21:16 > 0:21:18So, brace yourself for this.
0:21:18 > 0:21:22At the end of year one, we're looking to have 45,000 users
0:21:22 > 0:21:26with a gross of £16,000 profit,
0:21:26 > 0:21:29but a net loss of £98,000.
0:21:29 > 0:21:34Year two, we're looking to have 490,000 users
0:21:34 > 0:21:37with a gross of £240,000 profit,
0:21:37 > 0:21:41but a net loss of £63,000.
0:21:41 > 0:21:42Then, in year three,
0:21:42 > 0:21:45we're looking to have 4.5 million users
0:21:45 > 0:21:49with a gross of £2.4 million and a net profit - finally got there -
0:21:49 > 0:21:52of £1.3 million.
0:21:53 > 0:21:59OK, so you are looking to lose £150,000
0:21:59 > 0:22:02between now and the next two years?
0:22:03 > 0:22:05Yes.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07Where's the other money going to come from to fund the losses?
0:22:07 > 0:22:11So, this £75,000 is the start of an initial round, which we are
0:22:11 > 0:22:13looking to raise.
0:22:13 > 0:22:17The remaining 75,000 would be through other investors.
0:22:17 > 0:22:19So, if I was to invest in you today
0:22:19 > 0:22:21and you want to go and fundraise,
0:22:21 > 0:22:23do I then dilute further?
0:22:23 > 0:22:26We would need to discuss that at a later date.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28- No, we need to discuss that now.- OK.
0:22:36 > 0:22:38No, it would come out of our share.
0:22:38 > 0:22:39You dilute your share?
0:22:39 > 0:22:41It would be part of the same round.
0:22:41 > 0:22:44So, no.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Peter Jones has extracted a guarantee
0:22:47 > 0:22:51that further fundraising wouldn't result in a drop in Dragon equity.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55Online brand builder Nick Jenkins
0:22:55 > 0:22:58could be Gary, Laurent and Ben's perfect match.
0:23:01 > 0:23:06Guys, I think you're really onto something,
0:23:06 > 0:23:10because it's a very elegant way of solving the awkwardness
0:23:10 > 0:23:12of that first encounter.
0:23:12 > 0:23:16- Have you done online dating?- Yes, I did, actually. A few years ago.
0:23:16 > 0:23:18Part of the awkwardness is that you meet someone,
0:23:18 > 0:23:21you go on a date, and it's because,
0:23:21 > 0:23:23OK, at the end of this evening,
0:23:23 > 0:23:26we have to say, "Do you like me or do you not like me?"
0:23:26 > 0:23:30And I have always found that really quite awkward.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32In a way, I can see how this is just, actually,
0:23:32 > 0:23:36a much less pressured route to dating.
0:23:36 > 0:23:39So, I'm going to offer you all of the money,
0:23:39 > 0:23:42but I am going to offer it for 20%.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46I think that partly reflects the risk factor that...
0:23:46 > 0:23:51This is a great idea, but it is still very embryonic.
0:23:55 > 0:23:59A good start for the entrepreneurs as their preferred Dragon investor
0:23:59 > 0:24:03breaks the ice with a £75,000 offer.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06Assuming the double daters
0:24:06 > 0:24:09are prepared to give up double the equity.
0:24:11 > 0:24:15Can Sarah William, who made a fortune in the food industry,
0:24:15 > 0:24:17see past her earlier concerns
0:24:17 > 0:24:21and add the dating site to her business portfolio?
0:24:22 > 0:24:25Guys, I can't think of a situation where...
0:24:25 > 0:24:28I could have gone on a good double date, if that makes sense.
0:24:28 > 0:24:30Where we wouldn't have fancied the same bloke or
0:24:30 > 0:24:32they wouldn't have fancied one of us and not the other.
0:24:32 > 0:24:34I can't get past that.
0:24:34 > 0:24:37I'm sure it is going to cause more friendship break-ups
0:24:37 > 0:24:39than it is marriages. I just can't get past it.
0:24:39 > 0:24:43Good luck with everything, but I'm afraid, on this one, I'm out.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47Guys, I think you've...
0:24:48 > 0:24:50It's a really good pitch.
0:24:50 > 0:24:52It just isn't something that...
0:24:52 > 0:24:54I think it might be a lack of knowledge,
0:24:54 > 0:24:57because I've been lucky enough not to have to apply
0:24:57 > 0:24:58to go on a dating site.
0:24:58 > 0:25:01It's amazing what money does in your life, isn't it?
0:25:01 > 0:25:03LAUGHTER
0:25:05 > 0:25:07It just hasn't grasped me.
0:25:07 > 0:25:09This isn't for me.
0:25:09 > 0:25:11I'm going to say that I'm out.
0:25:15 > 0:25:18Both Sarah Willingham and Peter Jones
0:25:18 > 0:25:20have now given the online daters the elbow.
0:25:22 > 0:25:25Touker Suleyman might not be their target market,
0:25:25 > 0:25:29but that's not to say he couldn't be the trio's dream investor.
0:25:31 > 0:25:34Guys, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:25:34 > 0:25:40I will offer you all the money, £75,000...
0:25:41 > 0:25:42..for 20%.
0:25:45 > 0:25:52And there's probably some benefits where there could be...
0:25:52 > 0:25:55some free accommodation for you,
0:25:55 > 0:25:57there could be some tech support
0:25:57 > 0:25:59if need be,
0:25:59 > 0:26:01but it all depends how we structure it.
0:26:04 > 0:26:10With two matching offers of £75,000 for 20% already on the table,
0:26:10 > 0:26:15have Gary, Laurent and Ben stirred Deborah Meaden's passion for a deal?
0:26:17 > 0:26:20Guys, I didn't wake up this morning thinking,
0:26:20 > 0:26:23"I want to investing a dating site."
0:26:23 > 0:26:25It's not particularly been on my agenda,
0:26:25 > 0:26:27but you are good.
0:26:27 > 0:26:30I can see, as a collective, how it would work,
0:26:30 > 0:26:33and the energy and the ideas you've got -
0:26:33 > 0:26:37so I, too, am going to make you an offer.
0:26:37 > 0:26:40I'm actually going to make you two offers.
0:26:41 > 0:26:45So, I'm going to offer you all of the money...
0:26:47 > 0:26:49..and I want 20% of the business.
0:26:51 > 0:26:55I'm going to offer you half of the money...
0:26:55 > 0:26:59for 10% of the business and I would be very happy,
0:26:59 > 0:27:00if Nick was up for it, to share.
0:27:06 > 0:27:09Competition is hotting up...
0:27:11 > 0:27:14..as Deborah Meaden weighs in with a dual offer.
0:27:14 > 0:27:17The full £75,000 for 20%,
0:27:17 > 0:27:20or half the cash for half the equity -
0:27:20 > 0:27:24but she will only partner up with Nick Jenkins.
0:27:24 > 0:27:26Leaving Touker Suleyman jilted.
0:27:29 > 0:27:32Nick and Deborah, your offer is very appealing,
0:27:32 > 0:27:36but is there any chance you would be willing to come down to 7.5%,
0:27:36 > 0:27:40collectively 15% from the same equity share?
0:27:42 > 0:27:45You want to be making a noise in a busy life
0:27:45 > 0:27:47and I want to be able to give you...
0:27:47 > 0:27:49the attention that you need.
0:27:49 > 0:27:54I worry that, if I drop below 10%...
0:28:04 > 0:28:07You're essentially paying a premium for our involvement
0:28:07 > 0:28:10and what we can add to the business -
0:28:10 > 0:28:13which is very, very different from just getting money from somebody
0:28:13 > 0:28:15who puts the money and shut their eyes
0:28:15 > 0:28:17and hopes that is going to do something.
0:28:17 > 0:28:18It's a very different thing...
0:28:22 > 0:28:26..but I would be prepared to do £75,000 for 15%.
0:28:26 > 0:28:28- OK.- On your own?
0:28:28 > 0:28:30On my own.
0:28:32 > 0:28:36A surprising development as Nick Jenkins snubs Deborah Meaden
0:28:36 > 0:28:38in a last-minute bid to snare the deal.
0:28:45 > 0:28:47We came in here with a game plan and it's worked,
0:28:47 > 0:28:49so we would like to accept your offer.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51- Hey! - APPLAUSE
0:28:51 > 0:28:55- Thanks very much.- Thank you.
0:28:55 > 0:28:59So, no love lost in the Den as Dragon turns on Dragon.
0:29:03 > 0:29:08But for Gary, Laurent and Ben, it's a marriage made in heaven.
0:29:08 > 0:29:09That was so surreal.
0:29:09 > 0:29:12"What are we doing?"
0:29:12 > 0:29:14Group hug.
0:29:16 > 0:29:19- Very, very surreal.- Exhilarating.
0:29:19 > 0:29:21I am over the MoonPig.
0:29:21 > 0:29:23LAUGHTER
0:29:23 > 0:29:24I see what you did there.
0:29:27 > 0:29:29Still to come on tonight's show...
0:29:29 > 0:29:31It doesn't rely on any technology
0:29:31 > 0:29:33and it doesn't rely on a mobile signal,
0:29:33 > 0:29:36and it doesn't rely on your website working.
0:29:36 > 0:29:38- If I can respond...- Do.
0:29:42 > 0:29:46And have the Dragons finally met their match?
0:29:46 > 0:29:51SIRENS BLARE
0:29:51 > 0:29:55This is the first time that blood has been spilt in the Den.
0:30:01 > 0:30:03Braving the Den next
0:30:03 > 0:30:06is an accountant who, in his spare time, has come up with
0:30:06 > 0:30:09a piece of technology that he says will save lives.
0:30:11 > 0:30:13But can Bristol-based Chris Ford
0:30:13 > 0:30:15break through the number-cruncher stereotype
0:30:15 > 0:30:19and convince the Dragons he's an idea man, too?
0:30:19 > 0:30:23Accountants can be boring, but people describe me as being
0:30:23 > 0:30:26a number-cruncher, Harley-riding superhero.
0:30:27 > 0:30:29So I'd like to think I break the norm.
0:30:29 > 0:30:33One of my key motivators is helping other people
0:30:33 > 0:30:37and with this particular product it could actually save a life.
0:30:37 > 0:30:39And I don't think there's anything better than that.
0:30:55 > 0:30:56Hello, Dragons.
0:30:56 > 0:30:59Thank you for seeing me today.
0:30:59 > 0:31:02My name is Chris Ford from Tap2Tag Ltd
0:31:02 > 0:31:05and I'm seeking a £75,000 investment
0:31:05 > 0:31:07for a 20% stake in the company.
0:31:08 > 0:31:10So what is Tap2Tag?
0:31:10 > 0:31:14Well, we sell scannable medical alert devices,
0:31:14 > 0:31:16wristbands in particular,
0:31:16 > 0:31:19that with a simple tap of a mobile phone
0:31:19 > 0:31:23enable first responders to get almost immediate access
0:31:23 > 0:31:25to critical life-saving information
0:31:25 > 0:31:27in the event of an emergency.
0:31:28 > 0:31:33By simply tapping a mobile phone against one of our devices
0:31:33 > 0:31:37the information appears on the screen.
0:31:37 > 0:31:39We've harnessed a new technology
0:31:39 > 0:31:42that is built into most mobile phones sold throughout the UK
0:31:42 > 0:31:44called Near Field Communication,
0:31:44 > 0:31:46or NFC.
0:31:47 > 0:31:52In the UK alone there are 3.2 million people living with diabetes,
0:31:52 > 0:31:55850,000 diagnosed with dementia,
0:31:55 > 0:31:58and a further 600,000 living with epilepsy.
0:31:59 > 0:32:02We feel our product could significantly benefit those
0:32:02 > 0:32:05with these types of medical conditions.
0:32:05 > 0:32:07We've sold over 700 units to date.
0:32:08 > 0:32:12Our customers really like it because there are no subscription fees
0:32:12 > 0:32:15and they're priced at a really affordable £20 a unit.
0:32:17 > 0:32:19HE CLEARS HIS THROAT
0:32:25 > 0:32:27Erm...
0:32:27 > 0:32:30So, we need some funding for two main reasons.
0:32:30 > 0:32:33The first is to raise the awareness of the product
0:32:33 > 0:32:36with both the medical profession and the public,
0:32:36 > 0:32:39but also we want to enhance the website
0:32:39 > 0:32:41to provide more functionality.
0:32:41 > 0:32:45We think we've got a great product that's already benefiting the lives
0:32:45 > 0:32:47of many of our customers, and I really hope you do, too.
0:32:49 > 0:32:53A potentially life-saving wristband is the product
0:32:53 > 0:32:55on offer from Chris Ford.
0:32:55 > 0:32:56Thank you.
0:32:56 > 0:32:59He's looking for £75,000
0:32:59 > 0:33:03in return for 20% equity in his tech-based company.
0:33:04 > 0:33:07But his pitch has left Sarah Willingham
0:33:07 > 0:33:09with more questions than answers.
0:33:13 > 0:33:15Chris, I fundamentally don't get it.
0:33:15 > 0:33:17If I walk down the street,
0:33:17 > 0:33:19somebody's fallen over,
0:33:19 > 0:33:20what do I do?
0:33:20 > 0:33:23My phone isn't NFC approved.
0:33:23 > 0:33:27Well, if you don't know that your phone is NFC enabled...
0:33:27 > 0:33:29I don't even know what it is, actually, if I'm being honest.
0:33:29 > 0:33:31It's Near Field Communication
0:33:31 > 0:33:33and it needs an internet connection.
0:33:33 > 0:33:36OK, so, what do I do? Get my phone out and...
0:33:36 > 0:33:38Tap it against the device.
0:33:38 > 0:33:39..and tap it against the device.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42What we call the Public Profile pops up.
0:33:42 > 0:33:44It's got the picture, the name of the individual,
0:33:44 > 0:33:46their age and a public message.
0:33:46 > 0:33:49That public message could be anything that the wearer's chosen.
0:33:49 > 0:33:52So it might say "I have asthma."
0:33:52 > 0:33:54So in order for this to work
0:33:54 > 0:33:57the paramedics have all got to know what it is.
0:33:57 > 0:33:58And that is why we need the money.
0:33:58 > 0:34:00But to get it out to all the paramedics...
0:34:00 > 0:34:02Back in June last year we notified
0:34:02 > 0:34:05every single ambulance trust in the UK about the product
0:34:05 > 0:34:07and how to deal with it.
0:34:07 > 0:34:10Trying to get that awareness out there
0:34:10 > 0:34:12is our prime focus for this year.
0:34:12 > 0:34:16What of the other options available that are out there?
0:34:16 > 0:34:19At the moment there are various
0:34:19 > 0:34:23types of bracelet, necklaces, et cetera which people can
0:34:23 > 0:34:25write their medication on,
0:34:25 > 0:34:27put it in a little necklace, screw it tight.
0:34:29 > 0:34:33Some people wear a wristband that just says "diabetes"
0:34:33 > 0:34:34or "epilepsy".
0:34:34 > 0:34:38Perhaps you could just have an app
0:34:38 > 0:34:41as opposed to having to buy something like this.
0:34:41 > 0:34:43There are plenty of apps on the market where you can
0:34:43 > 0:34:45control your medication.
0:34:45 > 0:34:49The problem is, having spoken to a number of paramedics about this,
0:34:49 > 0:34:52they will not look at a mobile phone
0:34:52 > 0:34:56if they have a prone patient in front of them.
0:34:56 > 0:34:58They are concentrating on the ABCs of first aid -
0:34:58 > 0:35:01airways, breathing, circulation.
0:35:01 > 0:35:04The only place they are almost guaranteed to look is on a wrist.
0:35:06 > 0:35:08It sounds so obviously a good idea
0:35:08 > 0:35:10it's almost like this should sit with the NHS
0:35:10 > 0:35:13and you should be offering a service -
0:35:13 > 0:35:15you providing the software
0:35:15 > 0:35:18and the NHS just handing these out to patients
0:35:18 > 0:35:21as they go out almost on prescription.
0:35:21 > 0:35:24This week I had a meeting with an NHS trust
0:35:24 > 0:35:27over in the south-east of England.
0:35:27 > 0:35:29They're really interested in this.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32Once we get the trial under way and we get approval,
0:35:32 > 0:35:35then that opens up many, many more doors within the NHS.
0:35:38 > 0:35:41Doubts about whether his medical wrist tags
0:35:41 > 0:35:43can be rolled out across the health service
0:35:43 > 0:35:45are neatly boxed off by the entrepreneur
0:35:45 > 0:35:48but it's left Nick Jenkins wondering
0:35:48 > 0:35:52if he's been listening to the same pitch as his fellow Dragons.
0:35:55 > 0:35:59Chris, I just... I just don't get it.
0:35:59 > 0:36:02I honestly think you've just massively overcomplicated
0:36:02 > 0:36:04an otherwise simple solution.
0:36:04 > 0:36:07And sometimes in those life-and-death situations
0:36:07 > 0:36:09the simplest solution is absolutely the best.
0:36:09 > 0:36:11You've an SOS band, it's got a piece of paper inside it,
0:36:11 > 0:36:14you can get quite a lot of information onto that piece of paper
0:36:14 > 0:36:16and it doesn't rely on any technology.
0:36:16 > 0:36:18And it doesn't rely on a mobile signal,
0:36:18 > 0:36:20and it doesn't rely on your website working.
0:36:22 > 0:36:24- If I can respond...- Do.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27This is an aid.
0:36:27 > 0:36:31The information that is available, potentially,
0:36:31 > 0:36:33even if it goes down or anything else happens,
0:36:33 > 0:36:36is either going to be an aid or irrelevant
0:36:36 > 0:36:40because the paramedics are already dealing with the patient in front of them.
0:36:40 > 0:36:42If the system failed,
0:36:42 > 0:36:46then we are making no guarantees, overtly,
0:36:46 > 0:36:48that it's going to be up all the time.
0:36:48 > 0:36:50But you don't know how many of these things are active
0:36:50 > 0:36:52because you're not asking anyone to pay a subscription.
0:36:52 > 0:36:55I can't believe... This is a life-and-death situation
0:36:55 > 0:36:57and you aren't saying, "Pay me £5 a year
0:36:57 > 0:36:59"so I can maintain the software for this ad infinitum.
0:36:59 > 0:37:01"£5 a year so that you can actually let me know
0:37:01 > 0:37:03"that you're still wearing it."
0:37:03 > 0:37:05You have no idea how many people out there
0:37:05 > 0:37:07are relying on your technology
0:37:07 > 0:37:09to help a paramedic when anything goes wrong.
0:37:13 > 0:37:17Nick Jenkins' serious concerns about the effectiveness of the product
0:37:17 > 0:37:19in a life-or-death situation
0:37:19 > 0:37:22has changed the mood in the Den.
0:37:22 > 0:37:26And Touker Suleyman is ready to state his position.
0:37:28 > 0:37:29Chris...
0:37:29 > 0:37:33What would it cost to maintain the website?
0:37:33 > 0:37:36The website alone, £150 a month.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39Surely if things go down, things go wrong,
0:37:39 > 0:37:41you have to update certain things...
0:37:41 > 0:37:43- It never stops.- No.
0:37:43 > 0:37:44Technology never stops.
0:37:44 > 0:37:48If you are telling me that it is going to cost you £150
0:37:48 > 0:37:51for the rest of your life to maintain it...
0:37:51 > 0:37:54and you're an accountant, it worries me.
0:37:54 > 0:37:57And then probably somebody else will say
0:37:57 > 0:38:02"I'm not going to sell it for £20, it's £10." And out-price you.
0:38:02 > 0:38:04There's that risk.
0:38:04 > 0:38:05Correct?
0:38:05 > 0:38:07That is always a risk. Indeed.
0:38:07 > 0:38:09So, here's where I stand.
0:38:09 > 0:38:14Erm... There's nothing that says that is unique to you.
0:38:16 > 0:38:18It is a dream that you've got.
0:38:18 > 0:38:21For that reason, I'm not going to invest and I'm out.
0:38:23 > 0:38:27With Nick Jenkins' damning assessment of the product
0:38:27 > 0:38:28still hanging in the air,
0:38:28 > 0:38:32Touker Suleyman becomes the first Dragon to exit the deal.
0:38:33 > 0:38:37Deborah Meaden already has investments in the health sector -
0:38:37 > 0:38:39is she the Dragon to help roll this out?
0:38:42 > 0:38:44I've actually got many products throughout the NHS.
0:38:44 > 0:38:46It's not easy, by the way.
0:38:46 > 0:38:48Even... Really, it's not easy.
0:38:48 > 0:38:51But this is one of those products that if it was going to take off
0:38:51 > 0:38:53would have to be done in a complete way,
0:38:53 > 0:38:56because you have to have total recognition.
0:38:56 > 0:38:57So you have got to have buy-in
0:38:57 > 0:39:00from ALL of the ambulance services, not just half a dozen -
0:39:00 > 0:39:02two here and one over there -
0:39:02 > 0:39:04So it has to be done in a big way.
0:39:04 > 0:39:07Not in a "£75,000 and we'll do a bit of marketing and PR."
0:39:07 > 0:39:10You'll have to have a date by which you switch on
0:39:10 > 0:39:13and everybody knows exactly what is there.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15And I just think... You're a long way from that,
0:39:15 > 0:39:18IF it's the right thing to do.
0:39:18 > 0:39:20I'm really sorry, Chris,
0:39:20 > 0:39:23but I won't be investing! So I'm out.
0:39:23 > 0:39:24Thank you.
0:39:24 > 0:39:26Chris, I love technology.
0:39:26 > 0:39:28I love all kinds of technology
0:39:28 > 0:39:31but I do think that you're well below the curve
0:39:31 > 0:39:33in terms of where technology is going.
0:39:33 > 0:39:35If you play with a phone,
0:39:35 > 0:39:38you know that you can put your thumbprint now
0:39:38 > 0:39:42and it will recognise you over another person.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45You should be thinking more about fingerprint recognition,
0:39:45 > 0:39:48so that you literally have to take somebody's thumbprint
0:39:48 > 0:39:51on the screen of a mobile phone device.
0:39:51 > 0:39:54It doesn't necessarily even need to have, potentially, a connection.
0:39:56 > 0:39:58Think about that.
0:39:58 > 0:39:59I think this is old technology
0:39:59 > 0:40:02and I think it's quite risky technology
0:40:02 > 0:40:04because it is not always going to be useful.
0:40:04 > 0:40:06So, I'm not going to invest,
0:40:06 > 0:40:08and say that I'm out.
0:40:10 > 0:40:14Bad news for Chris as two more Dragons walk away from the deal.
0:40:15 > 0:40:18And Nick Jenkins has further blows to deliver.
0:40:21 > 0:40:23I have a big issue with this.
0:40:23 > 0:40:25BIG issue.
0:40:25 > 0:40:28How much do you make on one of these bands?
0:40:28 > 0:40:30If we are selling them for £10 a unit,
0:40:30 > 0:40:33we are making £5.60.
0:40:33 > 0:40:36OK, so if this goes right, you make £5.60
0:40:36 > 0:40:39for the rest of the life of that band,
0:40:39 > 0:40:42because there was no subscription fee.
0:40:42 > 0:40:44If you don't maintain that software
0:40:44 > 0:40:46all the way through the life of that band,
0:40:46 > 0:40:49for years to come, and it cocks up...
0:40:50 > 0:40:56You're taking an enormous amount of risk for a tiny, tiny reward.
0:40:56 > 0:41:00Why would you want to take on that enormous responsibility?
0:41:00 > 0:41:02I'm flabbergasted.
0:41:02 > 0:41:03I'm out.
0:41:06 > 0:41:09Chris has failed to convince four of the Dragons
0:41:09 > 0:41:12that his device can be trusted to help patients
0:41:12 > 0:41:15with known medical conditions in an emergency.
0:41:15 > 0:41:19His last hope of investment now rests with Sarah Willingham.
0:41:23 > 0:41:25Chris, given the choice between this
0:41:25 > 0:41:28or a piece of paper in the bracelet
0:41:28 > 0:41:31I would still go for the piece of paper in the bracelet
0:41:31 > 0:41:34because I would feel that more people would know that exists,
0:41:34 > 0:41:37would read it, and it would give the necessary information
0:41:37 > 0:41:39to the right people at the right time.
0:41:40 > 0:41:43I'm afraid I'm not going to invest, so I'm out.
0:41:43 > 0:41:45Thank you.
0:41:50 > 0:41:54A dangerous amount of risk is the view from Nick Jenkins,
0:41:54 > 0:41:57as Chris Ford's bid for investment in his medical device
0:41:57 > 0:41:59fails to convince the Den.
0:42:02 > 0:42:05I hope he appreciates that actually he doesn't want to take that on.
0:42:05 > 0:42:06I hope he stops it.
0:42:08 > 0:42:13It was a shame that Nick went down the route of lambasting the product.
0:42:13 > 0:42:17I think it did sour the pot a little bit with some of the other Dragons.
0:42:17 > 0:42:19Maybe I should have fought harder against it.
0:42:19 > 0:42:22It's very difficult when he expresses it so passionately.
0:42:27 > 0:42:31So to our final investment opportunity of the day,
0:42:31 > 0:42:34delivered by a former military man whose long army career
0:42:34 > 0:42:39has provided him with the inspiration for an unusual business.
0:42:39 > 0:42:42Please be advised that no zombies were harmed
0:42:42 > 0:42:44during the making of this pitch.
0:42:51 > 0:42:54I've been a soldier and officer since the age of 16.
0:42:56 > 0:42:58When I was approaching leaving my full-time army career
0:42:58 > 0:43:00I was very nervous.
0:43:03 > 0:43:06I thought, "Can I take those skills that I've learnt from the military
0:43:06 > 0:43:09"and turn them into some form of business?"
0:43:32 > 0:43:35ALARM SOUNDS
0:43:35 > 0:43:36What the...?
0:43:36 > 0:43:39SIRENS
0:43:39 > 0:43:41GROWLS
0:43:52 > 0:43:54Oh, my God...!
0:44:25 > 0:44:27Did that just happen?!
0:44:27 > 0:44:29Good afternoon, Dragons.
0:44:29 > 0:44:31My name is Roy Fitter,
0:44:31 > 0:44:35and I'm the owner-founder of Ram Training Ltd.
0:44:35 > 0:44:38Ram Training is a small company based in the Midlands
0:44:38 > 0:44:42and we specialise in delivering fast-paced,
0:44:42 > 0:44:46very visceral, first-person horror events.
0:44:46 > 0:44:50We have Zombie Boot Camp, The Asylum,
0:44:50 > 0:44:52Zombie Boot Camp After Dark,
0:44:52 > 0:44:56and Wolfmen, which is a werewolf survival experience.
0:44:58 > 0:45:0225,000 people have now turned up at our site
0:45:02 > 0:45:05and done one or more of these events.
0:45:06 > 0:45:08What I've come here for today
0:45:08 > 0:45:10is to look at developing the company
0:45:10 > 0:45:13by forming a new part of the business
0:45:13 > 0:45:16and it's to develop one or two satellite sites
0:45:16 > 0:45:20in the United Kingdom over the next two to three years.
0:45:20 > 0:45:23And we're looking for £80,000
0:45:23 > 0:45:25for 20% of the equity.
0:45:25 > 0:45:27Dragons, thank you very much.
0:45:27 > 0:45:30This is my short pitch, and I'll be happy to take any questions.
0:45:32 > 0:45:35A spine-tingling entrance from Roy Fitter,
0:45:35 > 0:45:37who is pitching for £80,000
0:45:37 > 0:45:41in return for a 20% stake in a new offshoot
0:45:41 > 0:45:43of his horror role-playing business.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47Sarah Willingham wants to find out
0:45:47 > 0:45:49exactly what his customers can expect.
0:45:52 > 0:45:55Roy, that was horrifying.
0:45:55 > 0:45:56Very real.
0:45:56 > 0:45:58So, what...?
0:45:58 > 0:46:01I still can't quite picture what people are booking,
0:46:01 > 0:46:02if you see what I mean.
0:46:02 > 0:46:05So let's say I've got a hen do and there are ten girls -
0:46:05 > 0:46:07what are we paying for?
0:46:07 > 0:46:09What we do is put you in a position
0:46:09 > 0:46:10that you are a member of the public
0:46:10 > 0:46:13and you have been brought in by the military to be trained.
0:46:13 > 0:46:16You go through the clearance of a building,
0:46:16 > 0:46:20all of the site is all laid out in individual scenarios.
0:46:20 > 0:46:21So you will basically train me
0:46:21 > 0:46:23in the event of a zombie apoc...apoc...
0:46:23 > 0:46:26I can't say that word either.
0:46:26 > 0:46:30You will basically train me in the event of a zombie takeover...
0:46:30 > 0:46:32Yes.
0:46:32 > 0:46:34- ..to kill them.- Yes.
0:46:34 > 0:46:36That's the experience that I'm buying?
0:46:41 > 0:46:43Roy is offering the paying public
0:46:43 > 0:46:46a chance to take on his army of fake zombies.
0:46:47 > 0:46:52But battling the undead is clearly not everyone in the Den's cup of tea.
0:46:55 > 0:46:57Roy...
0:46:58 > 0:47:00I've never been into horror.
0:47:01 > 0:47:04I'm much more of a gentle, romantic person, you know?
0:47:04 > 0:47:06Anyway...erm...
0:47:06 > 0:47:10Tell us what your ideal booking would be.
0:47:10 > 0:47:12And what would somebody pay for it?
0:47:12 > 0:47:1585% of my clients are stag groups
0:47:15 > 0:47:19and we are seeing an increase in hen parties.
0:47:19 > 0:47:23On average a customer pays £78 per person,
0:47:23 > 0:47:26and most sales are for groups of 12 to 16 persons.
0:47:28 > 0:47:29OK, what's your turnover?
0:47:29 > 0:47:32What we've sold in 2015,
0:47:32 > 0:47:34on predicted sales on what we've got in our order book,
0:47:34 > 0:47:38we've made sales of £284,000.
0:47:38 > 0:47:42It costs us £200,000 to run the current company.
0:47:42 > 0:47:45It gives us a net figure
0:47:45 > 0:47:49before corporation tax of £84,000.
0:47:54 > 0:47:57Roy's existing zombie business
0:47:57 > 0:47:59is very much alive and kicking.
0:47:59 > 0:48:02But Sarah Willingham wants to find out more
0:48:02 > 0:48:04about his planned subsidiary.
0:48:08 > 0:48:11The satellite... So we're talking about this new company.
0:48:11 > 0:48:13- Why is that different from what you do at the moment?- OK.
0:48:13 > 0:48:15What we've been asked over the past few years,
0:48:15 > 0:48:19when a customer's done our existing overnight packages, they keep asking
0:48:19 > 0:48:22is there any way they can have a more intimate
0:48:22 > 0:48:23evening scenario event.
0:48:23 > 0:48:25So what we're looking at for the satellite site
0:48:25 > 0:48:27is a secluded farmhouse
0:48:27 > 0:48:31and the difference is that you're actually defending the property...
0:48:31 > 0:48:33- Ah, OK...- against the werewolves. - The werewolves attack.
0:48:33 > 0:48:36It allows us to bring more technology into the buildings
0:48:36 > 0:48:38and add more flavour.
0:48:39 > 0:48:42So why don't you do this as part of your current business?
0:48:42 > 0:48:44It sounds like the obvious extension.
0:48:44 > 0:48:48I'm absolutely happy with the team that we can plan, we can execute these events,
0:48:48 > 0:48:49but what I'm not happy with
0:48:49 > 0:48:53is the ability to take new projects on and grow them.
0:48:53 > 0:48:57However, I am convinced that with the right tutorage
0:48:57 > 0:49:00I can take and do something equally as good,
0:49:00 > 0:49:02and equally as profitable.
0:49:02 > 0:49:05That's the reason I'm standing here today.
0:49:05 > 0:49:08So you're saying that our investment today
0:49:08 > 0:49:11will not involve Ram.
0:49:11 > 0:49:12No.
0:49:16 > 0:49:18You want to start a brand-new business.
0:49:18 > 0:49:20Yes.
0:49:21 > 0:49:23Why?
0:49:24 > 0:49:27It's my... It's my and my son's futures
0:49:27 > 0:49:29what we currently do with the business.
0:49:29 > 0:49:32So you want me to take the risk of a new business
0:49:32 > 0:49:35while you and your son can set it up in the Bahamas?
0:49:35 > 0:49:37Is that what you're saying?
0:49:40 > 0:49:43Yeah, I suppose that's one way of putting it. Yeah.
0:49:44 > 0:49:48So you want me to take my money from my children, shall we say,
0:49:48 > 0:49:52to give to you for you and your children.
0:49:53 > 0:49:55Am I right or wrong?
0:49:55 > 0:49:57You are right.
0:49:59 > 0:50:03By offering only the new part of his business up for investment,
0:50:03 > 0:50:06Roy has irked the Dragons.
0:50:06 > 0:50:08And Peter Jones wants to get to the bottom
0:50:08 > 0:50:11of this unusually structured deal.
0:50:17 > 0:50:22I don't know whether you are as naive as you're coming across.
0:50:22 > 0:50:23You talk to us about a business
0:50:23 > 0:50:25which you've run and set up for many years,
0:50:25 > 0:50:27you're making good money,
0:50:27 > 0:50:30and then you say, "But actually I just want to do something
0:50:30 > 0:50:32"very similar, and I want you to give me some money.
0:50:32 > 0:50:34"And also I want you to help me try to do that
0:50:34 > 0:50:37"because I don't really know how to do it."
0:50:37 > 0:50:38Am I missing something?
0:50:40 > 0:50:42I've established a firm base
0:50:42 > 0:50:44in what I currently do at the moment.
0:50:44 > 0:50:48And I'm asking to work with somebody that we can then
0:50:48 > 0:50:51look at taking another project on a slightly different platform
0:50:51 > 0:50:53to the same success.
0:50:53 > 0:50:57The predicted turnover I've assessed in that respect,
0:50:57 > 0:51:00£190,000 a year,
0:51:00 > 0:51:03with a £92,000-a-year running cost
0:51:03 > 0:51:07which then gives a pre-tax profit of £98,000.
0:51:10 > 0:51:12We're very good at what we do.
0:51:13 > 0:51:16But do you also recognise that from our perspective,
0:51:16 > 0:51:18the problem is if you divide your time and...
0:51:18 > 0:51:22your loyalties between two very, very similar businesses,
0:51:22 > 0:51:25so you immediately create a problem.
0:51:27 > 0:51:29A juicy contract comes in and you think,
0:51:29 > 0:51:33"Well, do I put it through Ram or do I put it through Ram 2?"
0:51:34 > 0:51:35It creates a conflict.
0:51:37 > 0:51:39Standing here now, I feel kind of foolish.
0:51:39 > 0:51:41I can see you all looking and going...
0:51:41 > 0:51:44"Well, the pitch wasn't correct, was it?"
0:51:44 > 0:51:47If I could walk out those doors and march back in tomorrow morning,
0:51:47 > 0:51:48I probably would do.
0:51:54 > 0:51:58Roy's visit to the Den is rapidly going downhill.
0:51:58 > 0:52:01But will the admission that he's got his pitch wrong
0:52:01 > 0:52:03carry any weight with Deborah Meaden?
0:52:07 > 0:52:09You've been lovely and honest.
0:52:09 > 0:52:12You've actually said, "You know, it's almost the same business
0:52:12 > 0:52:15"but I'm really worried about the next bit
0:52:15 > 0:52:18"because that's the bit that will get a bit more complicated
0:52:18 > 0:52:21"and I'm going to need help with running."
0:52:21 > 0:52:23It's a shame you hadn't...
0:52:24 > 0:52:27..put those two together before you came into the Den.
0:52:27 > 0:52:32Because it just is not, for me, an investable structure.
0:52:35 > 0:52:37So I'm afraid I won't be investing. I'm out.
0:52:40 > 0:52:42I think it would be unfair to ask you to consider
0:52:42 > 0:52:45pitching the two businesses together
0:52:45 > 0:52:48because I think it's a big emotional decision for you to do.
0:52:49 > 0:52:52And I don't think it's one that you can do here and now.
0:52:54 > 0:52:57But, erm... I'm afraid I can't invest on that basis.
0:52:57 > 0:52:58I'm out.
0:53:02 > 0:53:07A tactical error has already cost Roy investment from two of the Dragons.
0:53:09 > 0:53:11Can Touker Suleyman
0:53:11 > 0:53:15or Sarah Willingham see beyond his reluctance to make
0:53:15 > 0:53:18his existing profitable business part of the deal?
0:53:20 > 0:53:23Roy, if you did walk out of here
0:53:23 > 0:53:24and you don't do anything
0:53:24 > 0:53:27with any of us, you've actually got a nice business.
0:53:30 > 0:53:32I may well be a customer...
0:53:32 > 0:53:35You've actually given me a great idea for my husband's next birthday.
0:53:36 > 0:53:39I think it will be an awesome weekend.
0:53:40 > 0:53:43But in its current form, with the separation of the two,
0:53:43 > 0:53:44it's just not investable.
0:53:46 > 0:53:49So I'm afraid, on that basis, I'm out.
0:53:53 > 0:53:55From what you're saying,
0:53:55 > 0:53:58if people are booking way ahead
0:53:58 > 0:54:00- and you're taking deposits... Yes? - Yes.
0:54:00 > 0:54:02- You must have cash in hand.- Yes.
0:54:04 > 0:54:07I believe you've got the money in the business.
0:54:08 > 0:54:12You can look forward, and you can build this business up yourself.
0:54:14 > 0:54:18So I'm going to give you the chance to make more money on your own,
0:54:18 > 0:54:21because I'm not going to invest in you. I'm out.
0:54:26 > 0:54:28Four Dragons are now out.
0:54:30 > 0:54:34Is Peter Jones poised to hammer the final nail in the coffin?
0:54:39 > 0:54:42This is the first time that blood has been spilt in the Den.
0:54:44 > 0:54:46And be it that my fellow Dragons
0:54:46 > 0:54:49have had an issue with perhaps trying to put this together
0:54:49 > 0:54:51and they think it is slightly unfair...I don't.
0:54:58 > 0:55:00I'm going to make you an offer.
0:55:02 > 0:55:06But I want the business that you currently run.
0:55:08 > 0:55:12So I'm going to offer you all of the money - £80,000 -
0:55:12 > 0:55:16for 30% of Ram Training
0:55:16 > 0:55:18and this new subsidiary.
0:55:30 > 0:55:31Thank you.
0:55:31 > 0:55:33The advice has been absolutely sound
0:55:33 > 0:55:35and makes total sense.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38It's just that I have to go back and sit down and talk to my wife.
0:55:39 > 0:55:42I'm being honest, you know, my wife's my wingman.
0:55:43 > 0:55:47I've got the loyalties there and I can't just say yes when she says no.
0:55:47 > 0:55:49And is your wife waiting in the lift?
0:55:49 > 0:55:50No, she's not waiting in the lift.
0:55:50 > 0:55:52She's not a zombie.
0:55:52 > 0:55:54She's at home doing the housework.
0:55:54 > 0:55:56She's going to kill you for saying that.
0:55:56 > 0:55:58The wife is not...you know,
0:55:58 > 0:56:00I'm not certain she'd say no, it's just that...
0:56:00 > 0:56:04Roy, I own a company called Red Letter Days,
0:56:04 > 0:56:07and we do some of these events.
0:56:07 > 0:56:10I think this is huge. This is massive in the States.
0:56:12 > 0:56:15And I think it's becoming bigger over here every minute.
0:56:17 > 0:56:19And I will give you the support of my people -
0:56:19 > 0:56:21they will be behind you -
0:56:21 > 0:56:23and also we will clearly push it,
0:56:23 > 0:56:27and give you the profile to millions of people up and down the country.
0:56:36 > 0:56:38Roy, I'm going to have to push you, whether you...
0:56:38 > 0:56:41I'm afraid I can't make that decision today.
0:56:43 > 0:56:46Roy, on that basis, I'm going to have to declare myself out.
0:56:50 > 0:56:53Unwilling to pull rank on his other half,
0:56:53 > 0:56:55Roy must depart with nothing.
0:56:59 > 0:57:01For visitors to the Den,
0:57:01 > 0:57:03unlike the undead,
0:57:03 > 0:57:04there can be no second chances.
0:57:06 > 0:57:08Hindsight is an expensive commodity.
0:57:10 > 0:57:13If I could watch that rewind and come back tomorrow, then, yes,
0:57:13 > 0:57:15I would've come in with a completely different pitch.
0:57:15 > 0:57:17But what's happened's happened.
0:57:20 > 0:57:22- Shall we clean up the blood?- No.
0:57:22 > 0:57:25Let's leave the blood on the floor for the next person who comes in!
0:57:25 > 0:57:27That's a great idea!
0:57:33 > 0:57:35Drama-filled events in the Den.
0:57:35 > 0:57:37Real drama for the trio from Double
0:57:37 > 0:57:40who got to shake on a deal with Nick Jenkins.
0:57:40 > 0:57:43Drama of a different kind for Sajda and Chris,
0:57:43 > 0:57:45who both received a scorching.
0:57:45 > 0:57:48And then, of course, zombie drama.
0:57:48 > 0:57:51Scary enough, but the Den is always most scary
0:57:51 > 0:57:54for the entrepreneurs who dare to enter.
0:57:54 > 0:57:57Bring those feet wide,
0:57:57 > 0:57:58sit back...
0:57:58 > 0:57:59Next time in the Den...
0:58:01 > 0:58:04This is the only thing that you have!
0:58:04 > 0:58:06This is a worthless piece of paper.
0:58:06 > 0:58:08You are incredibly investable on one hand,
0:58:08 > 0:58:11but you've made yourself uninvestable on the other
0:58:11 > 0:58:14by such a ridiculous valuation.
0:58:14 > 0:58:16Unless you've got the IP,
0:58:16 > 0:58:18everyone's just going to sit here and rip you apart.
0:58:18 > 0:58:20I'm going to make you an offer
0:58:20 > 0:58:23and it is for all of the money, on the terms that you have asked for
0:58:23 > 0:58:25because I think it would be kind of rude not to.