0:00:07 > 0:00:08Wealthy...
0:00:12 > 0:00:14..astute,
0:00:14 > 0:00:15innovative...
0:00:17 > 0:00:19..fearless
0:00:19 > 0:00:21and shrewd.
0:00:22 > 0:00:25These are the Dragons.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27DRAGON ROARS
0:00:30 > 0:00:33The heat is on in the Den.
0:00:33 > 0:00:36Together with formidable business giants Peter Jones
0:00:36 > 0:00:38and Deborah Meaden are...
0:00:39 > 0:00:43..global fashion tycoon with over 40 years retail experience,
0:00:43 > 0:00:44Touker Suleyman.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48The woman who turned her passion for food and drink
0:00:48 > 0:00:51into a multi-million pound business empire,
0:00:51 > 0:00:53Sarah Willingham.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56And the man who sold his online greetings card business
0:00:56 > 0:01:00for £120 million, Nick Jenkins.
0:01:01 > 0:01:07For entrepreneurs, it's the toughest business pitch of their lives.
0:01:07 > 0:01:11Do they have what it takes to face the Dragons?
0:01:11 > 0:01:13DRAGON ROARS
0:01:16 > 0:01:18Welcome to Dragons' Den,
0:01:18 > 0:01:21where five of the UK's best-connected business brains
0:01:21 > 0:01:26are ready to invest their own money in ideas and inventions -
0:01:26 > 0:01:28from beauty to retail to recycling.
0:01:28 > 0:01:30Waiting in the wings are entrepreneurs
0:01:30 > 0:01:33desperate to secure some cash.
0:01:33 > 0:01:34But the rule is,
0:01:34 > 0:01:37they must get an offer of all the money they've asked for
0:01:37 > 0:01:38or they leave with nothing.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43CHICKEN CLUCKS
0:01:43 > 0:01:45The Dragons will be fine.
0:01:45 > 0:01:50I believe that I have more time than any Dragon here.
0:01:50 > 0:01:52- You've really got to get to the point here.- I'm sorry.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55You know, give me a break. Cut to the point please.
0:01:55 > 0:01:58Potentially, you could be a bit all over the place in life as well.
0:01:58 > 0:02:00I'm not, I'm just very nervous, man.
0:02:00 > 0:02:02I couldn't work with you.
0:02:03 > 0:02:05I'm so sorry to say that.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08I've got to tell you, I like it.
0:02:08 > 0:02:10I think I'm going to make you an offer
0:02:10 > 0:02:13but it's going to be quite a ballsy offer.
0:02:17 > 0:02:19First into the Den are a young couple
0:02:19 > 0:02:22who've only been in business a few months
0:02:22 > 0:02:25but who've created a beauty product with a difference.
0:02:25 > 0:02:29We'll see whether its key ingredient will give the Dragons a kick.
0:02:38 > 0:02:40We're boyfriend and girlfriend, we met at school.
0:02:40 > 0:02:43We've been together for roughly about four to five years.
0:02:43 > 0:02:46I'm scared, just a bit nervous.
0:02:47 > 0:02:48I'm feeling a little bit nervous
0:02:48 > 0:02:50but I'm also excited at the same time
0:02:50 > 0:02:52to show them our brand and our product just to see what they think.
0:02:54 > 0:02:58I'm expecting to get completely grilled and teared apart
0:02:58 > 0:03:01but hopefully I've got the answers to back it up
0:03:01 > 0:03:03and hopefully they invest today.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16Hi, everyone. My name's Lloyd and this is my partner, Tash
0:03:16 > 0:03:18and we co-own the company Grounded Body Scrub.
0:03:18 > 0:03:22Today we're asking for £30,000 for 15% in our company.
0:03:22 > 0:03:24Grounded Body Scrub is a robust coffee-based body scrub,
0:03:24 > 0:03:27which targets common skin problems such as cellulite, stretch marks,
0:03:27 > 0:03:31varicose veins, eczema, acne and scarring.
0:03:31 > 0:03:33In Australia, coffee scrubs are massive at the moment.
0:03:33 > 0:03:38Market leaders last year turned over £20 million.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40In the UK and around Europe,
0:03:40 > 0:03:42coffee scrubs haven't really been heard of
0:03:42 > 0:03:46and the research we've done, not a lot of people know about them.
0:03:46 > 0:03:48At the moment, we've got three scrubs on sale.
0:03:48 > 0:03:50So, we've got a coconut scrub, a grapefruit scrub
0:03:50 > 0:03:52and also our chocolate orange scrub.
0:03:52 > 0:03:54Our scrubs contain no nasty chemicals,
0:03:54 > 0:03:57fillers and they're also not tested on animals.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00In our first month of trading, we had a turnover of £10,000.
0:04:00 > 0:04:04We currently sell on our website and notonthehighstreet.com
0:04:04 > 0:04:07Last week we were messaged by Urban Outfitters in the USA
0:04:07 > 0:04:09and they're really interested in the brand,
0:04:09 > 0:04:11so we sent products to Philadelphia
0:04:11 > 0:04:13and we're now a confirmed vendor of them.
0:04:13 > 0:04:17We would use your investment for bulk ingredients
0:04:17 > 0:04:19for the orders that we're going to be getting.
0:04:19 > 0:04:23We would use it for advertising and also for marketing.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25We found that we've created the best brand
0:04:25 > 0:04:27and with your investment we could help make it
0:04:27 > 0:04:29the biggest scrub on the shelves at the moment.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33Partners Lloyd Hazell and Tasha Harris
0:04:33 > 0:04:38are looking for £30,000 for a 15% share
0:04:38 > 0:04:40of their coffee-fuelled body scrub business.
0:04:40 > 0:04:44- They do smell like coffee as well. - It's divine.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48Deborah Meaden is first to scratch the surface of this unusual product.
0:04:51 > 0:04:54So, what's the known philosophy
0:04:54 > 0:04:57behind using coffee as part of a treatment?
0:04:57 > 0:04:59It originated in Bali originally.
0:04:59 > 0:05:01It makes you feel really good after you've had it.
0:05:01 > 0:05:03It will just sort of perk your skin up,
0:05:03 > 0:05:05help blood circulation.
0:05:05 > 0:05:06What are the joys of it?
0:05:06 > 0:05:09You have to really use it to know how good it makes your skin feel.
0:05:09 > 0:05:11Not any other scrub apart from the coffee scrub
0:05:11 > 0:05:13will make your skin feel that smooth.
0:05:13 > 0:05:17When did you start trading and how much have you turned over to date?
0:05:17 > 0:05:19- We've traded for three months.- Yeah.
0:05:19 > 0:05:23We've turned over £11,900.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26Basically, they retail at £13.50.
0:05:26 > 0:05:28To make, it's about £2.10.
0:05:30 > 0:05:34What is it that you've got that somebody couldn't do themselves?
0:05:34 > 0:05:35I'm not going to lie to you.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38Someone else could make another different scrub themselves
0:05:38 > 0:05:41and copy the same idea, but we've already got the name out there.
0:05:41 > 0:05:45And I think with these scrubs I can definitely see it in a store.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47Boots grounded shelf in the shop
0:05:47 > 0:05:50that they'd actually retail our products and they'd sell.
0:05:50 > 0:05:52What have you done before this?
0:05:52 > 0:05:54Well, I'm actually a music producer.
0:05:54 > 0:05:57I've upcycled furniture as well and rebuild cars.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59You've already given me the feeling
0:05:59 > 0:06:01that you're a bit all over the place.
0:06:01 > 0:06:03And potentially you could be a little bit all over the place
0:06:03 > 0:06:04in life as well.
0:06:04 > 0:06:07I'm not, I'm just very nervous, man.
0:06:07 > 0:06:10I've got it all together, honestly. I'm really just nervous to...
0:06:10 > 0:06:12I love that you've just said, "I'm really nervous, man"
0:06:12 > 0:06:15- to Peter Jones. I love that. - I am sorry. I'm just really...
0:06:15 > 0:06:17- No, I love it! - SHE LAUGHS
0:06:17 > 0:06:19Sorry, I didn't mean to call you man.
0:06:20 > 0:06:24Lloyd's candid approach to the most important business pitch
0:06:24 > 0:06:27of his life has certainly entertained the Den.
0:06:28 > 0:06:33But will he and Tasha be able to cope with the more intense interrogation
0:06:33 > 0:06:35of their product's health claims?
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Tasha, can I ask you about the active ingredients in this?
0:06:41 > 0:06:43It's coffee.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45For me, I've had eczema all my life,
0:06:45 > 0:06:49so this is the only thing that's ever really got rid of it.
0:06:49 > 0:06:51And what is it that's got rid of it?
0:06:51 > 0:06:53The main thing that gets rid of it is that
0:06:53 > 0:06:55it will exfoliate the top layer of skin cells.
0:06:55 > 0:06:57Whereas if you just get topical creams from doctors,
0:06:57 > 0:06:59they don't do that cos they just apply sort of steroids.
0:06:59 > 0:07:01That's really bad for your face.
0:07:01 > 0:07:03So have you got a magical cure then, do you think?
0:07:03 > 0:07:04No, it's not. It really does work.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07When I first started going out with Tasha, her face...
0:07:07 > 0:07:08I'm not being horrible.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11In the winter, as soon as it started turning cold, her whole...
0:07:11 > 0:07:13above her lip was completely crusty.
0:07:13 > 0:07:14I'd look at her and she'd be so angry
0:07:14 > 0:07:16cos she couldn't even talk cos her face was that sore.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19And since we started making this, it's completely...
0:07:19 > 0:07:21There's still a tiny bit, you can see it a tiny bit.
0:07:21 > 0:07:24- THE DRAGONS LAUGH - Oh, I'm only joking, I'm joking.
0:07:24 > 0:07:26Are you fairly confident about...
0:07:26 > 0:07:29You're making some quite radical claims here.
0:07:29 > 0:07:31I'd put my name to it that it works on people.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33- Well, good cos you have! - That would be good,
0:07:33 > 0:07:35if you were a doctor but you're not,
0:07:35 > 0:07:36you do up cars.
0:07:38 > 0:07:40Finding it difficult to back up their claims
0:07:40 > 0:07:43of the body scrub's medicinal qualities,
0:07:43 > 0:07:47Lloyd and Tasha's investment bid now appears to be on shaky ground.
0:07:47 > 0:07:50Will a quick shot of support from Sarah Willingham
0:07:50 > 0:07:52perk up their pitch?
0:07:54 > 0:07:57I actually love and have used many times coffee scrubs
0:07:57 > 0:08:01and I think they're fantastic. And they do work.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04And I do struggle to get a really good one in the UK.
0:08:04 > 0:08:06It's nowhere near as good as the one I got from Oz,
0:08:06 > 0:08:10nowhere near. Can you just tell us a little bit more about that deal
0:08:10 > 0:08:12- that you're talking about with Urban Outfitters?- Yeah.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15They said, "Oh, hi. We really love your brand, Grounded,
0:08:15 > 0:08:18"it's something we'd definitely like to work with."
0:08:18 > 0:08:20And we're literally waiting for an order.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22- They've confirmed that they're going to order with you?- Yeah.
0:08:24 > 0:08:26Lloyd and Tasha, Urban Outfitters...
0:08:26 > 0:08:28- Yeah.- ..I deal with them.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32You normally find that when they order, they'll trial it.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35- They won't put it into all the stores.- Yeah.
0:08:35 > 0:08:37They may put it into six stores or eight stores.
0:08:37 > 0:08:40When that's on a shelf in Urban Outfitters,
0:08:40 > 0:08:43what concerns me visually as a retailer
0:08:43 > 0:08:45would be how would my customer know...
0:08:46 > 0:08:48..what it does?
0:08:48 > 0:08:50I think the end product might be great
0:08:50 > 0:08:51- but you've got to market it.- Yeah.
0:08:51 > 0:08:54- You've got to get the customers to know what it is...- Yeah, sure.
0:08:54 > 0:08:56And I'm worried about that.
0:08:56 > 0:09:01Basically I'm going to spend at least £15,000 of my own money
0:09:01 > 0:09:03pushing it in every way I can to get it out there,
0:09:03 > 0:09:05so that people know what Grounded Body Scrub is.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07- £15,000 of your own money? - Yeah, yeah.
0:09:07 > 0:09:09So, why do you need our money?
0:09:09 > 0:09:11I'd love to work with one of you.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13I think you'd get us through to the right people
0:09:13 > 0:09:15and I think once we test the product on them
0:09:15 > 0:09:19and they see all the branding, I think they'll buy into it really.
0:09:19 > 0:09:24I think you've done a great job in such a short space of time.
0:09:24 > 0:09:27Perhaps you're six months too early.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30- You've got £15,000?- Yeah.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34- Put it into the business.- I know, I'm going to, definitely.
0:09:34 > 0:09:39Grow the business to a point where you take it to the next level.
0:09:39 > 0:09:44It's not for me. It's too small and for that reason, I'm out.
0:09:45 > 0:09:48Parting words of advice but no cash
0:09:48 > 0:09:51as the young entrepreneurs lose their first Dragon.
0:09:53 > 0:09:56Can Deborah Meaden see a lucrative future
0:09:56 > 0:09:58in this beauty business start-up?
0:09:59 > 0:10:01What I'm not getting from you
0:10:01 > 0:10:03- is a sense of your business experience...- Yeah.
0:10:03 > 0:10:05..and also what your different roles are.
0:10:05 > 0:10:08I do the manufacturing. Tasha does the speaking to customers
0:10:08 > 0:10:10cos she's better than me at talking to people.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13Like, in a weird way she's got the...
0:10:13 > 0:10:15She kind of talks like they're sort of flirting,
0:10:15 > 0:10:18that's the kind of way the company talks to them.
0:10:18 > 0:10:20- It is, it's like...- It's like you've taken a truth pill.
0:10:20 > 0:10:22It's like you can't help yourself
0:10:22 > 0:10:24saying that stuff that's in your head.
0:10:26 > 0:10:28So, do you understand... Have you ever done accounts,
0:10:28 > 0:10:32- management accounts?- We've literally been trading for three months,
0:10:32 > 0:10:33so it's something we need to get into.
0:10:33 > 0:10:35You're running it instinctively at the moment
0:10:35 > 0:10:37but do you appreciate that as you get bigger...
0:10:37 > 0:10:40- Yeah, definitely.- ..you can't run it instinctively?- 100%.
0:10:40 > 0:10:42I don't want to do anything.
0:10:42 > 0:10:44I want someone else to help me out to do it.
0:10:44 > 0:10:47You need one person who's going to give you their time,
0:10:47 > 0:10:49who's going to give you their attention,
0:10:49 > 0:10:52who's going to make sure it is targeted.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55There is something about you but it's very, very start-up.
0:10:55 > 0:10:57It's going to need a very, very focused approach,
0:10:57 > 0:10:59so I'm afraid I won't be making you an offer.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01- I'm out.- Thank you.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05Lloyd, Tasha, I'm going to just tell you where I am.
0:11:05 > 0:11:07You just said, I quote,
0:11:07 > 0:11:11"I don't want to do anything, I want someone else to do it."
0:11:11 > 0:11:13Yeah, I didn't mean it like that, it was bad wording.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16I know you didn't mean it but sometimes when people say things...
0:11:16 > 0:11:18- Yeah.- ..there has a subliminal meaning.
0:11:18 > 0:11:22I think you two are going to need an intense amount of work.
0:11:22 > 0:11:26And my concern is that I think you are too early-stage
0:11:26 > 0:11:28and there are going to be lots of people out there
0:11:28 > 0:11:31- that are going to want to go on that journey.- Yeah.
0:11:31 > 0:11:33I don't want to go on that journey.
0:11:33 > 0:11:36You're going to need somebody at the end of that phone constantly
0:11:36 > 0:11:38to give you guidance.
0:11:38 > 0:11:39And I'm not the man for that.
0:11:39 > 0:11:41So, I'm going to say I'm out.
0:11:44 > 0:11:45The bitter taste of regret
0:11:45 > 0:11:48as Lloyd pays the price for his laid-back style
0:11:48 > 0:11:52and loses a third Dragon in Peter Jones.
0:11:52 > 0:11:53Nick Jenkins,
0:11:53 > 0:11:57who had earlier concerns about the product's medicinal benefits,
0:11:57 > 0:11:59has now made up his mind.
0:12:02 > 0:12:05You've got a business, which could be a good lifestyle business.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08But there's a massive leap taking this on to the next level
0:12:08 > 0:12:10and my fear as an investor
0:12:10 > 0:12:13is that £30,000 isn't going to cut the mustard.
0:12:13 > 0:12:15It's probably going to require a few hundred thousand pounds.
0:12:15 > 0:12:17I just think it's going to take too much work
0:12:17 > 0:12:20to turn this into a business that's going to give a return
0:12:20 > 0:12:23to an investor, so I'm not going to invest. I'm out.
0:12:24 > 0:12:29More disappointment for the couple, four Dragons gone.
0:12:29 > 0:12:33None wanting to take a risk on such a fledgling business.
0:12:33 > 0:12:38Their only hope of investment rests with Sarah Willingham.
0:12:42 > 0:12:45I think there is room for Coffee Scrub,
0:12:45 > 0:12:47I really do, in the UK.
0:12:47 > 0:12:50I think it'll get more and more publicity.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53And I think more and more people will start to learn
0:12:53 > 0:12:55about the benefits of using it.
0:12:56 > 0:13:01I am...quite concerned about how much help you're going to need.
0:13:02 > 0:13:04But I...
0:13:04 > 0:13:06I like it, there's something in it.
0:13:06 > 0:13:09And there's something in you guys where I think you're actually,
0:13:09 > 0:13:11you're proper grafters.
0:13:12 > 0:13:13Thanks.
0:13:14 > 0:13:16So, I think I'm going to make you an offer
0:13:16 > 0:13:20but it's going to be quite a ballsy offer.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24You're going to need a lot of work.
0:13:24 > 0:13:27It's not just the phone calls, it's not just the introductions.
0:13:27 > 0:13:30Actually, it would be a lot of time mentoring
0:13:30 > 0:13:33and ending up working with you guys.
0:13:35 > 0:13:37But I am going to make you an offer...
0:13:38 > 0:13:42I'm going to offer you all the money but I want 45% of the business.
0:13:46 > 0:13:47OK, thanks.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49Is it all right to have a talk?
0:13:49 > 0:13:50Yeah, of course.
0:13:52 > 0:13:56It's the only offer on the table but there's still a lot to consider.
0:13:57 > 0:14:01Are they willing to give up nearly half of their company?
0:14:01 > 0:14:0430% more than they were looking to sell.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11THEY WHISPER
0:14:11 > 0:14:15- Yeah, we'd like to accept your offer.- Oh, that's fantastic.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18Oh, I'm really pleased. That's great news. Really, really good.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21- Thank you.- Fantastic.
0:14:21 > 0:14:24- Well done.- Congratulations, guys. - Well done.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26An early deal in the Den,
0:14:26 > 0:14:29as Sarah Willingham trusts her instincts
0:14:29 > 0:14:32and buys into Lloyd and Tasha's dream
0:14:32 > 0:14:35of launching coffee-based body treatments in the UK.
0:14:40 > 0:14:42Wow.
0:14:42 > 0:14:43That's crazy.
0:14:43 > 0:14:46I love the product, I really do and I could get passionate.
0:14:46 > 0:14:47And I loved them.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51When Sarah invested it was amazing.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54- Yeah.- It was quite a relief not to go home without an investment.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58If she can get it into some big stores, that would be...excellent.
0:15:21 > 0:15:26Next into the Den is Pete Ancketill, a former osteopath from London.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29He's invented a device that could simplify waste disposal
0:15:29 > 0:15:31in bars and restaurant.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36Sitting in a pub one day and hearing the noise of the bottles clanging
0:15:36 > 0:15:39and smashing around, I found it was an affront to my ears,
0:15:39 > 0:15:42so I decided to build something that would make that different.
0:15:42 > 0:15:44I'd like to become the best at what we do.
0:15:44 > 0:15:46I know my business, I know what I want
0:15:46 > 0:15:48and if I don't get it from the Dragons,
0:15:48 > 0:15:49I'll get it from someone else.
0:16:09 > 0:16:11Hello, everybody.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14My name's Pete Ancketill and I own a company called Glassbusters.
0:16:14 > 0:16:18We are a specialist compaction, collection and recycling company
0:16:18 > 0:16:20and I'm looking for £200,000 investment
0:16:20 > 0:16:22for a 10% stake in Glassbusters.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26If I can talk you through the product.
0:16:26 > 0:16:30The very first thing in any bar that clutters up the environment
0:16:30 > 0:16:31is the bottles.
0:16:31 > 0:16:34In a very busy bar, the bottle will be taken off the bar,
0:16:34 > 0:16:39put into a bin, which then has to be handled and dealt with by bar staff.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42And the time away from the bar, is time away from making money.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46Now, our compaction system, which we have patented,
0:16:46 > 0:16:49involves the delivery of a bottle straight down the chute,
0:16:49 > 0:16:53it goes through the silencer, into the basement and gets compacted.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56The idea is the bottles are taken off the bar immediately.
0:16:56 > 0:16:59If I can just demonstrate the machines to you now.
0:16:59 > 0:17:00The machines are all automatic.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03- So, as soon as the bottle goes in... - GLASS SMASHES
0:17:07 > 0:17:09So, if you can imagine this is a bar top,
0:17:09 > 0:17:12that's how quickly the bottles go down into the bottom.
0:17:12 > 0:17:16Now, we manufacture the machines, we install the machines,
0:17:16 > 0:17:19and most importantly, we also collect the glass.
0:17:19 > 0:17:20As a specialist recycler,
0:17:20 > 0:17:22it's a very important part of the message
0:17:22 > 0:17:26that the glass is turned back into a usable product,
0:17:26 > 0:17:28which means the bottles get turned back into bottles.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31We have systems exactly like this in London
0:17:31 > 0:17:36that have processed in excess of 7.5 million bottles
0:17:36 > 0:17:38over the last nearly three years.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42OK. That's Glassbusters and can I take your questions.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46A measured pitch from Pete Ancketill.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49He's looking for a £200,000 investment
0:17:49 > 0:17:52to grow his bottle compaction business.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55In return is just a 10% stake in the company.
0:17:56 > 0:18:00Sarah Willingham, who made her fortune in bars and restaurants,
0:18:00 > 0:18:02is first to break down the business.
0:18:06 > 0:18:11Pete, I've got two businesses actually that are your target.
0:18:11 > 0:18:14We have a very high volume of bottles
0:18:14 > 0:18:17and this is a problem for us, but I don't have basements.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20If your bar doesn't have a basement, you buy one of my other machines.
0:18:20 > 0:18:25OK. Even though we have an issue with disposing of glass,
0:18:25 > 0:18:27it's not enough of an issue
0:18:27 > 0:18:32for us to outsource that one little bit of our waste management.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35And a lot of the businesses that we have relationships with
0:18:35 > 0:18:39want the bottles back, a lot of them.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42If I've got loads of bars and I'm not buying it from you,
0:18:42 > 0:18:45that in a way shows you that the market
0:18:45 > 0:18:48is perhaps a little bit more limited than you think.
0:18:50 > 0:18:53Surely it's game over for the entrepreneur,
0:18:53 > 0:18:58if Sarah Willingham can't see a use for Pete's product in her industry.
0:18:59 > 0:19:04Will Deborah Meaden, who's previously invested in waste disposal,
0:19:04 > 0:19:05see things differently?
0:19:08 > 0:19:11Pete, you may or may not know that I was in the waste industry
0:19:11 > 0:19:13through an investment in Dragons' Den.
0:19:13 > 0:19:17It's a very tough industry because there are some big players
0:19:17 > 0:19:19that if they want to take you out, they take you out.
0:19:19 > 0:19:22The bit I really want to get to the bottom of,
0:19:22 > 0:19:25why aren't you just either licensing or selling
0:19:25 > 0:19:27to the existing waste businesses?
0:19:27 > 0:19:30You're spot on, we are currently doing that.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32But there is a very delicate balance
0:19:32 > 0:19:37between a waste management company advising of a third-party product
0:19:37 > 0:19:39and that waste management company feeling
0:19:39 > 0:19:40I want to take their income away.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43Your perfectly credible and then you say things like that.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46Trust me, they're not worried about you.
0:19:46 > 0:19:47What I would like you to tell me is
0:19:47 > 0:19:49where the revenue's going to come from
0:19:49 > 0:19:52and how much profit this might be making in three years' time.
0:19:52 > 0:19:54The machines are currently manufactured by us.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57The components you see in front of you have been assembled by us.
0:19:57 > 0:19:59Well, that's not quite answering.
0:19:59 > 0:20:02just tell me something about your projected numbers for three years.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05- There are three potential revenue streams.- OK.
0:20:05 > 0:20:07The first revenue stream is the rental or the leasing
0:20:07 > 0:20:09of the machine.
0:20:09 > 0:20:11Then there's the collection fee of collecting the glass
0:20:11 > 0:20:13and then there's the potential recycling of the glass
0:20:13 > 0:20:16that we then own. The average rental is £41 a week
0:20:16 > 0:20:21and the average collection is £181 a week.
0:20:21 > 0:20:23OK. So, would it be reasonable to say
0:20:23 > 0:20:26that there could be a revenue of £10,000 per year, per site?
0:20:26 > 0:20:28- Correct, yeah.- OK.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30If you were operating at scale across the UK,
0:20:30 > 0:20:33how many of these machines do you think you can install
0:20:33 > 0:20:36- in places that have the space... - 10,000 sites.
0:20:36 > 0:20:3810,000 sites? OK. So, 10,000 sites.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41What do you think you'll be able to take this to in three years' time?
0:20:41 > 0:20:44Year three, we're looking at profitability
0:20:44 > 0:20:45in excess of £2 million.
0:20:47 > 0:20:49Pete's confident of his figures
0:20:49 > 0:20:52and predicts a healthy turnover for the business.
0:20:52 > 0:20:56But Peter Jones is more interested in the present than the future.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03What has been your income in the last 12 months?
0:21:03 > 0:21:06In 2014, we turned over £156,000.
0:21:06 > 0:21:09- OK and what profit was that? - There was a zero profit on that.
0:21:09 > 0:21:14Zero. But you've valued this at £2 million.
0:21:14 > 0:21:17- Correct.- Give me a good justification and reason why
0:21:17 > 0:21:20this is worth £2 million today.
0:21:21 > 0:21:25Glassbusters have invested an enormous amount of time,
0:21:25 > 0:21:30effort and money in investigating, understanding
0:21:30 > 0:21:33and really getting to the bottom of the problems that exist
0:21:33 > 0:21:34in the hospitality sector.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37Pete, this is really great but you're not answering the question.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41And I understand why you want to avoid it
0:21:41 > 0:21:43because at the moment it seems ridiculous to me
0:21:43 > 0:21:46why you would value this at £2 million.
0:21:46 > 0:21:48- This is based on future earnings. - No, no.
0:21:48 > 0:21:52You're asking me to invest today at today's value.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55We believe that in year five we'll have profits of £4 million.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58But I don't want to invest today at tomorrow's price.
0:22:00 > 0:22:02I think an investment today has to reflect
0:22:02 > 0:22:05what it's going to be worth in the future.
0:22:05 > 0:22:07The issue that I've got is where you are currently
0:22:07 > 0:22:09and the absurd valuation.
0:22:09 > 0:22:12To come in to us and say you're offering 10%
0:22:12 > 0:22:14but you want £200,000.
0:22:14 > 0:22:16You've put me between a rock and a hard place,
0:22:16 > 0:22:19even if I could give it a punt and think, you know,
0:22:19 > 0:22:21this is a great opportunity.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24You've kind of killed it before you've started with the valuation.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29So, I'm going to politely decline. I'm going to say I'm out.
0:22:32 > 0:22:35Peter Jones is the first Dragon to bin the deal.
0:22:38 > 0:22:41But Nick Jenkins still thinks there's mileage in this business
0:22:41 > 0:22:44and wants to know if Pete has the infrastructure
0:22:44 > 0:22:46to backup potential growth.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51One of my concerns about this is that you need to be operating
0:22:51 > 0:22:55a nationwide business picking up this glass.
0:22:55 > 0:22:58What does that require by year three in terms of staff?
0:22:58 > 0:23:02Glassbusters in year one have the intention of supplying services
0:23:02 > 0:23:04to the M25 and within the M25.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08All of our clients at the moment are each less than 1.6 miles from...
0:23:08 > 0:23:11- Can you just... You've really got to get to the point here.- Sorry.
0:23:11 > 0:23:14I mean, give me a break. Cut to the point please.
0:23:16 > 0:23:20We grow to a team of about 25 in year three.
0:23:20 > 0:23:22A team of... Our current team...
0:23:22 > 0:23:25So, 25. You've answered the question already, don't carry on. Stop, stop.
0:23:25 > 0:23:27Sorry.
0:23:27 > 0:23:29- Pete, Touker.- Yes, hello.
0:23:29 > 0:23:33You mentioned you've got your own plants making these.
0:23:33 > 0:23:35Do you own a premises?
0:23:35 > 0:23:39- We have two leases on two premises. - OK. So, you turn over £156,000.- Hm.
0:23:39 > 0:23:41You've got two premises.
0:23:41 > 0:23:43You've got rent, you've got rates.
0:23:43 > 0:23:44How do you make it pay?
0:23:44 > 0:23:46I'm confused.
0:23:46 > 0:23:49Maybe there's another company, maybe there's another business.
0:23:49 > 0:23:52Glassbusters is what I'm presenting here today and that's what's the...
0:23:52 > 0:23:53So, what else is in the background?
0:23:53 > 0:23:56Glassbusters is the business and that's what we do.
0:23:56 > 0:24:00- All I want to know is you're turning over £156,000.- Yeah.
0:24:00 > 0:24:02That's less than a little shop.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06- What was your GP on that? - We are currently cost neutral.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08We're not losing or making money.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10Yeah, but you're not answering my question.
0:24:10 > 0:24:12I can't answer your question, sorry.
0:24:12 > 0:24:13I'm going to be very quick.
0:24:13 > 0:24:15A lot don't make sense.
0:24:15 > 0:24:17It's all for the future.
0:24:17 > 0:24:19I think your valuation is too much, I'm out.
0:24:23 > 0:24:27Touker Suleyman is gone, amidst rising frustration in the Den
0:24:27 > 0:24:30over Pete's inability to give clear responses
0:24:30 > 0:24:32to the straight-talking Dragons.
0:24:34 > 0:24:37Deborah Meaden thinks part of Pete's problem
0:24:37 > 0:24:39lies in his business strategy.
0:24:40 > 0:24:43The model you've got at the moment is not going to work.
0:24:43 > 0:24:45If I were you,
0:24:45 > 0:24:49I would concentrate on doing deals with the waste management companies.
0:24:49 > 0:24:53Focus on that and I promise you your life will be better
0:24:53 > 0:24:55and you will end up wealthier.
0:24:55 > 0:24:57I think the points you've made are very good
0:24:57 > 0:25:00but waste management companies don't like glass in their dust carts.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02- So, although... - Sorry, did I just say that?
0:25:02 > 0:25:04- No, they don't like it in there cos it destroys them.- Oh, Pete.
0:25:04 > 0:25:07Do you know... I'm really sorry...
0:25:07 > 0:25:10I've just seen a glimpse into my future of working with you
0:25:10 > 0:25:15and it's going to take forever to get to the bottom of stuff.
0:25:15 > 0:25:17I don't think I could work with you
0:25:17 > 0:25:19because I just think my life's too short.
0:25:20 > 0:25:23- I won't be investing. - OK, thank you.- I'm out.
0:25:26 > 0:25:30Deborah Meaden has worries over a working relationship with Pete
0:25:30 > 0:25:31and has walked away.
0:25:33 > 0:25:35Will Sarah Willingham follow suit?
0:25:35 > 0:25:39I've got to be honest and I hate to make this personal
0:25:39 > 0:25:42but I, I couldn't work with you.
0:25:43 > 0:25:45I'm so sorry to say that.
0:25:45 > 0:25:49I've actually never said that before to anyone but...
0:25:50 > 0:25:53I couldn't because I think I'd go bit bonkers in the end
0:25:53 > 0:25:57because every time somebody's asked you a question,
0:25:57 > 0:25:58you've gone so off-piste.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01I feel like you're not been straight with us.
0:26:01 > 0:26:03I'm not used to presenting, you know.
0:26:03 > 0:26:05I'm used to running a business, this is new to me.
0:26:05 > 0:26:08I'm usually covered in muck and I'm usually getting stuck in.
0:26:08 > 0:26:10I'm not a natural presenter.
0:26:14 > 0:26:16I just can't, I can't invest in it.
0:26:16 > 0:26:18So, I'm really sorry but I'm afraid I'm out.
0:26:19 > 0:26:21OK, thank you.
0:26:23 > 0:26:27Personality clashes and a lack of clarity in his answers
0:26:27 > 0:26:31mean Pete's dream of investment has almost been shattered.
0:26:33 > 0:26:37Unless Nick Jenkins can prevent this pitch
0:26:37 > 0:26:39going the same way as his bottles.
0:26:40 > 0:26:42Right, I'll cut to the chase.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45I'm impressed actually by the way you've understood the problem.
0:26:45 > 0:26:47But, as Deborah's pointed out, the big issue is
0:26:47 > 0:26:50you're probably not going to muscle in to the waste disposal thing.
0:26:50 > 0:26:53You don't have the national network to be able to do that
0:26:53 > 0:26:55and you'll be crushed, absolutely crushed.
0:26:55 > 0:26:57It's really, really important to pick your battles.
0:26:57 > 0:26:59I think unfortunately you're going to have
0:26:59 > 0:27:02to re-engineer your business plan completely
0:27:02 > 0:27:05and focus entirely on the sales and the maintenance of those.
0:27:05 > 0:27:08And if you'd come to us with a business plan that said that,
0:27:08 > 0:27:09then it would be much more credible.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14What you have is an invention and you've recognised a problem,
0:27:14 > 0:27:18but I don't think you have any of the strategic ability
0:27:18 > 0:27:19to be able to see this through.
0:27:19 > 0:27:22I just think it would need an enormous amount of help
0:27:22 > 0:27:23to make this happen.
0:27:28 > 0:27:30But I think you've got something.
0:27:31 > 0:27:32So, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.
0:27:32 > 0:27:36I'm going to offer you all of the money
0:27:36 > 0:27:37but for 30% of the business.
0:27:39 > 0:27:46Against all odds, Pete has an offer for the full £200,000.
0:27:46 > 0:27:49He came in to sell 10% of his company.
0:27:49 > 0:27:53Will he be willing to give up a further 20% to close the deal?
0:27:56 > 0:27:59That's a fantastic offer. Would you go to 20?
0:27:59 > 0:28:01I'm afraid I'd stick at 30 and the reason for that
0:28:01 > 0:28:03is that I know that we'd have to bring some people in
0:28:03 > 0:28:06and they would have to be given some of the equity.
0:28:06 > 0:28:09- Would that require further dilution? How does that work?- No, no.
0:28:09 > 0:28:12- That would probably...- That'd be part of your share?- Yeah.
0:28:13 > 0:28:18And what is it, for your 30%, that you can give us as a company?
0:28:18 > 0:28:20What you're missing is strategic vision.
0:28:20 > 0:28:23- But you can help me with that? - Oh, yeah. I can help you with that.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30We're only on this planet once...
0:28:30 > 0:28:33- I'll accept your offer. - Right.- Sound.
0:28:33 > 0:28:36- Thank you very much, I appreciate it.- Excellent.
0:28:36 > 0:28:38Pete has smashed it
0:28:38 > 0:28:43and he walks away with £200,000 of Nick Jenkins' cash
0:28:43 > 0:28:48after showing the Den that business sometimes requires bottle.
0:28:48 > 0:28:52Nick wasn't put off by four other extremely successful entrepreneurs
0:28:52 > 0:28:56telling him it was a non-viable business. He's got guts.
0:28:56 > 0:28:58- There's a gem in there... - I did not see that coming.
0:28:58 > 0:29:00- ..but he's pointing in the wrong direction.- Yes.
0:29:00 > 0:29:02- Good for you, Nick.- Yeah. - Well done, Nick.
0:29:02 > 0:29:04Let's hope it doesn't turn out to be a waste of time.
0:29:04 > 0:29:06WEAK LAUGHTER
0:29:06 > 0:29:08Nick probably could have got more, I might have gone to 40%
0:29:08 > 0:29:10but I wouldn't let him know that.
0:29:16 > 0:29:19Still to come on tonight's show...
0:29:19 > 0:29:21What's their price point?
0:29:21 > 0:29:24- I didn't ask them that. - What profit margins did they make?
0:29:24 > 0:29:27- I didn't ask either.- So you know nothing about your market.
0:29:28 > 0:29:31None of my investments get the odd telephone call here and...
0:29:31 > 0:29:34- Will you fly to China with him? - No.- I will fly to China with you.
0:29:34 > 0:29:37- You have absolutely no idea how I run my investments.- OK.
0:29:44 > 0:29:47So, why did the chicken cross the road?
0:29:47 > 0:29:48- WHISPERS:- Hello there.
0:29:48 > 0:29:51You'll be going in soon. You're going to be a star.
0:29:51 > 0:29:54In this particular instance, to get to the Dragons' Den.
0:29:56 > 0:29:58But in this case, it's the chicken farmer
0:29:58 > 0:30:00who's hoping to feather his nest.
0:30:02 > 0:30:04I was born in the family farm in Ireland.
0:30:04 > 0:30:06I've always worked in agriculture.
0:30:06 > 0:30:08Latterly, it's been the poultry industry,
0:30:08 > 0:30:10specifically the egg sector.
0:30:11 > 0:30:14So, I want you to stay calm and behave.
0:30:14 > 0:30:16The Dragons will be fine.
0:30:16 > 0:30:19We've taken a very big gamble with this business.
0:30:19 > 0:30:21We have bet the house, if you like.
0:30:23 > 0:30:25The success of this business is crucial
0:30:25 > 0:30:26to our future financial security.
0:30:34 > 0:30:36INAUDIBLE SPEECH
0:30:40 > 0:30:43Hi, I'm Rob Shaw from The Crackin' Egg Company.
0:30:43 > 0:30:45And this is Pepper.
0:30:45 > 0:30:47We're asking for £80,000
0:30:47 > 0:30:51in return for 20% of The Crackin' Egg Company.
0:30:51 > 0:30:53At The Crackin' Egg Company,
0:30:53 > 0:30:56we're going to crack the savoury snack food market
0:30:56 > 0:30:57with a humble hard-boiled egg.
0:30:58 > 0:31:01They've got a difference, though - they're painted.
0:31:01 > 0:31:05This seals good stuff in and keeps the bad stuff out.
0:31:05 > 0:31:08We started this business in January of last year.
0:31:08 > 0:31:09We took a trip over to Europe
0:31:09 > 0:31:12to research what the Europeans were doing
0:31:12 > 0:31:15cos they have been successfully doing this for years.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18And then midsummer, we went to approach some of the major retailers
0:31:18 > 0:31:20to get feedback from them.
0:31:20 > 0:31:23So far, we have invested £100,000.
0:31:23 > 0:31:26We're asking for £80,000 from the Dragons
0:31:26 > 0:31:30and we're going to match this with a further investment of £100,000.
0:31:32 > 0:31:34Pepper's got to go now, she's got work to do.
0:31:34 > 0:31:37And after all, even though the chicken came first,
0:31:37 > 0:31:38it's all about the egg.
0:31:47 > 0:31:49I've got some samples for you.
0:31:52 > 0:31:57A new take on the humble hard-boiled egg from poultry salesman Rob Shaw.
0:31:58 > 0:32:03He's looking for £80,000 in return for a 20% equity share
0:32:03 > 0:32:05in his savoury snack food business.
0:32:07 > 0:32:10Can the Dragons be persuaded to shell out the cash?
0:32:13 > 0:32:14Hi, Rob.
0:32:14 > 0:32:18In terms of selling, how much do they sell for?
0:32:19 > 0:32:23Our twin pack, we're suggesting a retail price of £1.59.
0:32:23 > 0:32:26Does the painting of them do anything other than
0:32:26 > 0:32:30just it's colourful and it identifies it as a snack egg
0:32:30 > 0:32:32as opposed to an egg-egg?
0:32:32 > 0:32:34The painting is crucial.
0:32:34 > 0:32:38The painting reseals shell and preserves the egg.
0:32:38 > 0:32:43Right, so the painting is more about shelf life?
0:32:43 > 0:32:46Absolutely. The companies that are selling peeled hard-boiled eggs
0:32:46 > 0:32:49have a real problem maintaining quality and freshness.
0:32:49 > 0:32:51Even when they're refrigerated,
0:32:51 > 0:32:55they only have a shelf life of seven days, two weeks at the most.
0:32:55 > 0:32:56- STAMMERS:- OK. Why...
0:32:56 > 0:33:02Mine has got some sort of rather unpleasant red dye all over it.
0:33:03 > 0:33:05The colouring is perfectly natural.
0:33:05 > 0:33:09That's exactly the same colouring as you get in any other food product.
0:33:09 > 0:33:11I just want to pick on this all-natural thing
0:33:11 > 0:33:15cos if I'd got Deborah's covered in red, I would have thrown that away.
0:33:15 > 0:33:17I wouldn't have eaten it.
0:33:17 > 0:33:20We're replacing that natural coating that has washed off when it's boiled
0:33:20 > 0:33:24with other natural products, which reseal the shell.
0:33:24 > 0:33:27It might be natural, but it doesn't actually look very nice, does it?
0:33:29 > 0:33:32That's a matter of opinion. You don't like it.
0:33:32 > 0:33:34You like that, do you?
0:33:34 > 0:33:36- I don't dislike it.- Oh, OK.
0:33:36 > 0:33:38Other natural products have imperfections.
0:33:42 > 0:33:46The look of Rob's product has failed to impress the Dragons.
0:33:47 > 0:33:51And with a retail price of £1.59 per pair,
0:33:51 > 0:33:53his pre-boiled eggs aren't going cheap.
0:33:58 > 0:34:04Why would I pay five times as much to have a coloured outside egg?
0:34:04 > 0:34:07And then take the shell off it and eat what's inside,
0:34:07 > 0:34:09which is a normal egg?
0:34:09 > 0:34:13For the same reason as you'd buy a sandwich or sushi or a wrap.
0:34:13 > 0:34:14That's not true, really, is it?
0:34:14 > 0:34:18You can't liken this, in any sense, to a sandwich.
0:34:18 > 0:34:20You know, you're talking about a commodity
0:34:20 > 0:34:24- that everybody has at home...- Mm-hm. - ..that takes three minutes,
0:34:24 > 0:34:27or five minutes to boil.
0:34:27 > 0:34:29Everyone also has bread at home in their bread bin
0:34:29 > 0:34:33and other products in the fridge they can make a sandwich with.
0:34:33 > 0:34:35We're selling you a convenience food.
0:34:37 > 0:34:41You're selling a pimped...
0:34:41 > 0:34:42convenience product.
0:34:45 > 0:34:49The visual aspect, I suppose you could say, pimps it,
0:34:49 > 0:34:50but it's slightly different, though.
0:34:50 > 0:34:54It's not that simple because we're boiling the egg,
0:34:54 > 0:34:57which adds a value and then we're sealing the shell,
0:34:57 > 0:34:59which preserves the egg and maintains freshness.
0:34:59 > 0:35:03The colour is just a by-product.
0:35:06 > 0:35:10Peter Jones is turning up the heat, but Rob is holding up well.
0:35:11 > 0:35:14And he's about to receive an unexpected boost
0:35:14 > 0:35:15from elsewhere in the Den.
0:35:20 > 0:35:23I'm amazed at how much people are prepared to pay for convenience.
0:35:23 > 0:35:27When I see bags of apples, sliced apple...
0:35:27 > 0:35:29Because there's a fine example of a perfectly natural product
0:35:29 > 0:35:32that someone has taken, done something with, put it in a bag
0:35:32 > 0:35:34and charged about five times as much.
0:35:34 > 0:35:36And the point is, people still buy it.
0:35:38 > 0:35:40But obviously, it's narrow.
0:35:43 > 0:35:44What else, beyond eggs...
0:35:44 > 0:35:47Can you make an entire business around that?
0:35:47 > 0:35:49I believe we can.
0:35:49 > 0:35:53These are massive. You can get these all over Europe from north to south.
0:35:53 > 0:35:54The sales figures and Germany are
0:35:54 > 0:35:56about 1.5 million eggs per day.
0:35:56 > 0:35:58Market penetration is even greater...
0:35:58 > 0:36:01- 1.5 million hard-boiled eggs... - Of this type, per day.
0:36:01 > 0:36:02- Sold in shells?- Yes.
0:36:04 > 0:36:05Hm.
0:36:07 > 0:36:11Food for thought, as healthy foods on the Continent
0:36:11 > 0:36:14hint at a potential market here in the UK.
0:36:16 > 0:36:19But Peter Jones will take a bit more convincing.
0:36:21 > 0:36:24What's the price point in Germany for the egg?
0:36:24 > 0:36:26- I don't know the price point in Germany.- Pardon?
0:36:26 > 0:36:28I don't know the price point in Germany.
0:36:28 > 0:36:29I thought you said it works in Germany.
0:36:29 > 0:36:32Yes, it does. They sell 1.5 million per day.
0:36:32 > 0:36:33But you don't even know...
0:36:33 > 0:36:36They could be selling 1.5 million a day and losing money.
0:36:38 > 0:36:40What's the company that are doing it?
0:36:40 > 0:36:41Eier Gottke.
0:36:41 > 0:36:44And what's their price point?
0:36:44 > 0:36:47- I didn't ask them that. - What profit margin do they make?
0:36:47 > 0:36:48I didn't ask them that either.
0:36:48 > 0:36:51What do they sell it to the retailer at?
0:36:51 > 0:36:53- I didn't ask that either.- So, you know nothing about your market.
0:36:58 > 0:37:00I didn't research the German market
0:37:00 > 0:37:02because I'm not planning to retail in Germany.
0:37:02 > 0:37:04You didn't research ANY market.
0:37:09 > 0:37:10You crack me up.
0:37:16 > 0:37:18Rob, this really isn't a business.
0:37:19 > 0:37:22You don't have substance to come into here
0:37:22 > 0:37:25and try to sell me a coloured egg at five times the price.
0:37:28 > 0:37:30For that reason, I'm out.
0:37:32 > 0:37:34Plenty of questions
0:37:34 > 0:37:37and a distinct shortage of answers.
0:37:37 > 0:37:39The end result, no deal.
0:37:40 > 0:37:43And the potential size of Rob's domestic market
0:37:43 > 0:37:45is preoccupying Touker Suleyman.
0:37:48 > 0:37:51Rob, in your first year, what's your projection?
0:37:52 > 0:37:56This calendar year, we're projecting £160,000 of sales.
0:37:56 > 0:37:58160K.
0:37:59 > 0:38:02A gross profit of 48,000, approximately.
0:38:02 > 0:38:05And a loss of 174, approximately.
0:38:05 > 0:38:08- 174?- Yep.
0:38:08 > 0:38:09A loss.
0:38:09 > 0:38:14Year two, we're projecting a gross profit of 270,000
0:38:14 > 0:38:18and a small profit of £40,000, approximately.
0:38:18 > 0:38:23And year three, we're projecting £900,000 gross profit
0:38:23 > 0:38:27and a net profit of over £500,000.
0:38:27 > 0:38:28Whoa!
0:38:29 > 0:38:33So, you want me to look ahead to three years' time?
0:38:33 > 0:38:34Yeah.
0:38:36 > 0:38:37Cos what I don't understand,
0:38:37 > 0:38:40in your first year, you're going to lose 174,000...
0:38:40 > 0:38:42Yes.
0:38:42 > 0:38:45So, what happens in year two? Where would the money come from?
0:38:45 > 0:38:48We're expecting to get to a cash flow positive situation
0:38:48 > 0:38:51quite quickly in the second year.
0:38:51 > 0:38:54We've had a lot of good feedback from the retailers...
0:38:54 > 0:38:57You can have all the feedback and the world, right?
0:38:57 > 0:39:00- I'll give you a piece of free advice.- Mm-hm.
0:39:01 > 0:39:03Cash is king.
0:39:03 > 0:39:07You can have the best business in the world and if on a Friday,
0:39:07 > 0:39:10you can't pay your bills, it means you're broke.
0:39:14 > 0:39:17And my experience tells me that you're going to run out of money.
0:39:21 > 0:39:22And for that reason...
0:39:22 > 0:39:24I'm out.
0:39:28 > 0:39:31Disappointment for the snack food entrepreneur
0:39:31 > 0:39:35as fears of a cash flow crisis cost him his second Dragon.
0:39:37 > 0:39:42Are Deborah Meaden or Sarah Willingham prepared to set aside
0:39:42 > 0:39:45their earlier misgivings and make Rob an offer?
0:39:47 > 0:39:51- Rob, an egg is a pretty magic food product.- Mm-hm, it is.
0:39:51 > 0:39:53That a lot of people love,
0:39:53 > 0:39:57but I think you're taking away its magic.
0:39:57 > 0:39:58It is a fresh product.
0:39:58 > 0:40:01I, therefore, want to buy it as a fresh product.
0:40:01 > 0:40:04So, you can do everything you like to it...
0:40:04 > 0:40:07If you then put it on a shelf coloured red,
0:40:07 > 0:40:09I am going to give it a wide berth.
0:40:09 > 0:40:13My concern is that all the stuff you've spent your money on
0:40:13 > 0:40:17- and that you think is the reason why this will work...- Yep.
0:40:17 > 0:40:20..I think are all the reasons it will work against you.
0:40:22 > 0:40:24So, I'm very sorry, for that reason, I'm out.
0:40:28 > 0:40:31I totally agree. If only you can make them look like eggs.
0:40:31 > 0:40:33- THEY LAUGH - You know, I mean, it kind of...
0:40:33 > 0:40:36It looks like a plastic egg. It just doesn't...
0:40:36 > 0:40:41All of the wonderful, wonderful things about eggs, this isn't.
0:40:41 > 0:40:42You've taken it away.
0:40:44 > 0:40:46Hopefully, you'll make some money out of it.
0:40:46 > 0:40:49I don't think it's quite the size that you think it is, but I'm out.
0:40:53 > 0:40:56Four Dragons have now declined the deal.
0:40:58 > 0:41:02Rob has only one hope of securing the cash injection his business
0:41:02 > 0:41:06craves and that rests with Nick Jenkins.
0:41:08 > 0:41:12I can see that there is a market for boiled eggs.
0:41:12 > 0:41:16And actually this is one of life's naturally gluten-free products
0:41:16 > 0:41:18and more and more people are going in that direction.
0:41:18 > 0:41:20So, I think you possibly missed a trick,
0:41:20 > 0:41:22but I've given you that for free.
0:41:25 > 0:41:28But I also think the business is not in the idea.
0:41:30 > 0:41:32Because this is quite a simple idea.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34The business is in the distribution side
0:41:34 > 0:41:37and that's the bit that you don't have.
0:41:38 > 0:41:41So, I'm afraid, I can't invest. I'm out.
0:41:44 > 0:41:48It all started brightly enough, but Rob must leave empty-handed.
0:41:50 > 0:41:53When offered the chance to spend big on painted eggs,
0:41:53 > 0:41:58the Dragons proved themselves to be singularly hard-boiled.
0:41:58 > 0:42:00There was quite a bit of criticism coming in,
0:42:00 > 0:42:02but I didn't crack at all.
0:42:03 > 0:42:06PEPPER CLUCKS
0:42:10 > 0:42:14Next to face the Dragons is Spencer Turner from Bournemouth.
0:42:14 > 0:42:18Spencer has given up his profitable business supplying medical gases
0:42:18 > 0:42:23to hospitals in order to pursue a new entrepreneurial dream.
0:42:30 > 0:42:32My 40th birthday had quite a big effect on me, realistically.
0:42:32 > 0:42:35It was a wake-up call, where you realise that you're at a point
0:42:35 > 0:42:38in your life where if you're going to make difference and do something,
0:42:38 > 0:42:40it kind of needs to be now.
0:42:40 > 0:42:43I became an entrepreneur because I've found that there are many
0:42:43 > 0:42:46products on the market that I could reengineer, redesign,
0:42:46 > 0:42:48make them more efficient and better.
0:43:03 > 0:43:05Hello, my name is Spencer Turner
0:43:05 > 0:43:08and I'm here today looking for a £45,000 investment
0:43:08 > 0:43:11for a 25% share in my company Tegology.
0:43:14 > 0:43:17(Sorry.)
0:43:17 > 0:43:20Tegstove is the most efficient portable
0:43:20 > 0:43:21gas camping stove ever made.
0:43:21 > 0:43:23It runs on cost-effective butane
0:43:23 > 0:43:25and utilizes a thermoelectric generator
0:43:25 > 0:43:28to produce electrical current for charging mobile phones,
0:43:28 > 0:43:30GPS, GoPro cameras
0:43:30 > 0:43:33and many other devices that charge using a standard USB connection.
0:43:34 > 0:43:37Erm... The stove will retail for £149.
0:43:37 > 0:43:40We're looking to retail it into a number of existing markets
0:43:40 > 0:43:43including camping, fishing, and festivals.
0:43:46 > 0:43:48HE SIGHS
0:43:48 > 0:43:50(Pressure.) Erm...
0:43:52 > 0:43:54In the UK alone, there's over 1.2 million people
0:43:54 > 0:43:56that go camping on average every year.
0:43:56 > 0:43:58And fishing is the largest industry in the world,
0:43:58 > 0:44:00valued over at £1.5 billion.
0:44:00 > 0:44:04- I have a number of... - HE STAMMERS
0:44:07 > 0:44:11I have a number of letters of intent from both GO Outdoors
0:44:11 > 0:44:14and from Total Fishing Tackle.
0:44:14 > 0:44:17I'm looking to have a Dragon on board to help get the product
0:44:17 > 0:44:20into the retail market and the larger distribution networks.
0:44:20 > 0:44:22Thank you for listening. I'm happy to answer
0:44:22 > 0:44:23any questions you may have.
0:44:25 > 0:44:28A camping stove with a 21st-century twist
0:44:28 > 0:44:30is the offering from Spencer Turner,
0:44:30 > 0:44:33who's looking for £45,000
0:44:33 > 0:44:37in return for a 25% stake in his business.
0:44:38 > 0:44:40Peter Jones is quick to pick up
0:44:40 > 0:44:42on the entrepreneur's falter in delivery.
0:44:47 > 0:44:50- You nervous, Spencer? - Yeah, sorry. Yes, I am. Yes.
0:44:50 > 0:44:51You're not used to pitching to people?
0:44:51 > 0:44:53No, not at all. No.
0:44:53 > 0:44:56- Can you demonstrate the product? - Absolutely, yeah.
0:45:05 > 0:45:09OK, so essentially, what's happening here is a relatively simple process.
0:45:09 > 0:45:12The gas flame produces around 1,200 degrees
0:45:12 > 0:45:15and what we are doing is transferring part of that heat
0:45:15 > 0:45:17to what's called a thermoelectric generator.
0:45:17 > 0:45:20Essentially, what happens is it creates an electrical current
0:45:20 > 0:45:24which then you can use for charging mobile devices.
0:45:24 > 0:45:26Spencer, you're focusing very heavily on the fact
0:45:26 > 0:45:28that this is a charger.
0:45:28 > 0:45:33So, is your pitch not the fact that it's a sort of fire burner or stove,
0:45:33 > 0:45:36but it has a capacity to charge phones?
0:45:36 > 0:45:39It's very much so, first and foremost, a camping stove.
0:45:39 > 0:45:42That was the concept originally. That's where the product came from.
0:45:42 > 0:45:44We've been camping, we go camping quite a lot
0:45:44 > 0:45:47and I found a frustration with the gases that were available.
0:45:47 > 0:45:49If I can, I'll show you this.
0:45:49 > 0:45:53This is a very standard camping gas cylinder. It's filled with butane.
0:45:53 > 0:45:56The problem with these is you end up with no pressure for cooking,
0:45:56 > 0:45:59so the actual gas fails and you can't cook with it.
0:45:59 > 0:46:01So, to get around that, what industry has done is
0:46:01 > 0:46:03they have come up with what's called a mixed gas solution.
0:46:03 > 0:46:06Essentially, these hold the same amount of fuel as these,
0:46:06 > 0:46:10but because these gases cost £4.50 for this cylinder,
0:46:10 > 0:46:12whereas this one costs £1.50 and cheaper than that.
0:46:12 > 0:46:17- So, your stove makes use of the lower-cost butane bottle...- It does.
0:46:17 > 0:46:20..but provides a better heat source
0:46:20 > 0:46:22and can charge products that you want to plug in?
0:46:22 > 0:46:25The fact that it creates current is almost a by-product
0:46:25 > 0:46:27of what I was trying to overcome.
0:46:29 > 0:46:32An innovative product with a clearly defined market
0:46:32 > 0:46:35always ignites the Dragons' interests.
0:46:36 > 0:46:39And established leisure industry player Deborah Meaden
0:46:39 > 0:46:43is keen to find out more about Spencer's competition.
0:46:46 > 0:46:49Can you describe the other stoves that are available?
0:46:49 > 0:46:51Yes, absolutely.
0:46:51 > 0:46:52And the price points?
0:46:52 > 0:46:55Yeah, OK, the other stoves that uses thermoelectric generator
0:46:55 > 0:46:57that produces electrical current is called a BioLite.
0:46:57 > 0:47:01That retails between £129 and £149.
0:47:01 > 0:47:04That doesn't use gas, it runs on sticks, effectively.
0:47:04 > 0:47:06So, it's a fuel chain, but you light a fire
0:47:06 > 0:47:09and it produces an electrical current, so you can charge from it.
0:47:09 > 0:47:12OK, so what that has...
0:47:12 > 0:47:15There is a bit of a romance to the fire.
0:47:15 > 0:47:17- Absolutely.- You're a camper, so you know that.
0:47:17 > 0:47:20So, you are kind of... That's the slightly more romantic side of it,
0:47:20 > 0:47:22so you still light your fire, it still...
0:47:22 > 0:47:25- you know, there's a combination of the fire there.- Yeah.
0:47:25 > 0:47:29- But this is the more efficient way of doing it.- It is.
0:47:29 > 0:47:31So, if I was going to choose between them,
0:47:31 > 0:47:33it's, do I still want to light the sticks
0:47:33 > 0:47:34or do I actually want to use...?
0:47:34 > 0:47:36I think the BioLite is a great concept.
0:47:36 > 0:47:39The unfortunate reality is the output that it produces is very low,
0:47:39 > 0:47:41but the majority of places you go camping,
0:47:41 > 0:47:44- you're not allowed to use them. - You couldn't on our sites.
0:47:46 > 0:47:48I've got to tell you, I like it.
0:47:49 > 0:47:51Great, thank you.
0:47:51 > 0:47:55It's very rare that in my first opening set of questions I get to
0:47:55 > 0:47:59the conclusion that it's something I want to get involved with.
0:47:59 > 0:48:01- But that just happened to me. - Oh, that's great.
0:48:01 > 0:48:03That's good to hear. Thank you.
0:48:03 > 0:48:06You have come in with a good product.
0:48:07 > 0:48:11So, I'm going to make you an offer on the terms that you have
0:48:11 > 0:48:13come in for - all of the money, 25% of the business.
0:48:13 > 0:48:16Thank you very much. Thank you.
0:48:16 > 0:48:21A clearly impressed Deborah Meaden has gone straight in with an offer.
0:48:21 > 0:48:29The full £45,000 and unusually, for no more than the 25% equity
0:48:29 > 0:48:31that Spencer was originally looking to give away.
0:48:32 > 0:48:35And now Sarah Willingham also looks keen.
0:48:38 > 0:48:41I think you've created something really brilliant. I really do.
0:48:41 > 0:48:42Thank you.
0:48:42 > 0:48:44It looks really nice.
0:48:44 > 0:48:48I'm really happy to take it out outside our bell tent and work it.
0:48:48 > 0:48:51My problem with it as an investment for me is
0:48:51 > 0:48:54I don't really get the mechanics of it.
0:48:54 > 0:49:00And so, I feel I couldn't sit there and talk about it and do it justice.
0:49:00 > 0:49:03So, for that reason,
0:49:03 > 0:49:07I'm going to say that I'm not going to invest in it.
0:49:07 > 0:49:10So, good luck with everything, but I'm very sorry, I'm out.
0:49:10 > 0:49:11OK, thank you very much.
0:49:13 > 0:49:14High praise for the product,
0:49:14 > 0:49:17but a failure to win any cash from Sarah Willingham.
0:49:19 > 0:49:24Will fashion tycoon Touker Suleyman want to add a camping stove
0:49:24 > 0:49:26to his business portfolio?
0:49:26 > 0:49:30It just so happens that I've just taken on an industrial engineer
0:49:31 > 0:49:37and we're about to develop accessories, bags and whatever,
0:49:37 > 0:49:41which is a power pack and you can charge your phone three times a day.
0:49:41 > 0:49:44Is there a way that you could add power packs
0:49:44 > 0:49:46on top of your charger?
0:49:46 > 0:49:48So you take the power pack away,
0:49:48 > 0:49:50- you've got power pack that is already recharged.- Yes.
0:49:50 > 0:49:52That was an avenue we looked down.
0:49:52 > 0:49:55One of the reasons we didn't do that was because having a power pack
0:49:55 > 0:49:58that disconnected would create more connection points.
0:49:58 > 0:50:01What we're designing now is something that would make
0:50:01 > 0:50:04- the power pack and the charging system waterproof...- I'd love to put
0:50:04 > 0:50:06you and my girl together.
0:50:06 > 0:50:09Cos, together, you guys would make a great team.
0:50:09 > 0:50:13- I like it.- Thank you. - It complements what I'm doing.
0:50:16 > 0:50:17And...
0:50:18 > 0:50:20..I'll think about it.
0:50:22 > 0:50:25No offer from Touker Suleyman,
0:50:25 > 0:50:27but his interest has clearly been engaged.
0:50:29 > 0:50:34Prompting telecoms giant Peter Jones to make a very direct inquiry.
0:50:37 > 0:50:39Who do you like out of the five of us?
0:50:39 > 0:50:41That is a very hard question.
0:50:41 > 0:50:45I have to say that, you know, Deborah and Peter,
0:50:45 > 0:50:48I don't mean any disrespect to anybody else, but obviously,
0:50:48 > 0:50:51with your background and obviously, as well, your background,
0:50:51 > 0:50:54you're very much so in the right kind of position to be able
0:50:54 > 0:50:58to assist greatly to take this through to market.
0:50:58 > 0:51:01Well, the reason why asked that is because I was sitting here...
0:51:01 > 0:51:04I was interested at the get go.
0:51:04 > 0:51:06Deborah has offered at the price that you came in at
0:51:06 > 0:51:08and just my competitive nature,
0:51:08 > 0:51:11even if it was, like, 26% I'd want to get a little bit more,
0:51:11 > 0:51:14but she's gone straight in at that level and I can see why.
0:51:14 > 0:51:15I think it is great.
0:51:18 > 0:51:20So, I am going to make you an offer.
0:51:23 > 0:51:25But I'm going to give you the option of two offers
0:51:25 > 0:51:26depending on what Deborah were to say.
0:51:26 > 0:51:31I'm going to make you an offer for all of the money, 45,000,
0:51:31 > 0:51:33for 25% as well.
0:51:36 > 0:51:38Or...
0:51:38 > 0:51:4245,000 for 30% if it's split with Deborah.
0:51:43 > 0:51:47So, half of the money and at least I have 15% of the business.
0:51:52 > 0:51:55Can I ask? I have been to China, I have met with manufacturers,
0:51:55 > 0:51:57but because I've never taken anything to market before,
0:51:57 > 0:52:01actually getting a manufacturer to commit to actually get this
0:52:01 > 0:52:03project moving forward is becoming cumbersome.
0:52:03 > 0:52:06- Is that something that you guys could assist with?- Completely.
0:52:06 > 0:52:08What I would probably do is put you in touch with somebody who
0:52:08 > 0:52:11all the time deals with people in... In fact, I know exactly...
0:52:11 > 0:52:14I'd put you in touch with Stuart. That's what I would do!
0:52:14 > 0:52:15OK, you got his number?
0:52:15 > 0:52:18Stuart is very nice, you'll get on very well with Stuart.
0:52:20 > 0:52:24I currently have an innovation centre in Singapore, Hong Kong
0:52:24 > 0:52:26and in Taipei.
0:52:28 > 0:52:31From a mobile telecoms perspective, you probably know that,
0:52:31 > 0:52:35you know, about 18 million worth of product is developed,
0:52:35 > 0:52:38manufactured from our own plant, so all of that...
0:52:38 > 0:52:40I actually own that infrastructure.
0:52:41 > 0:52:42So, yeah.
0:52:42 > 0:52:44And that's why I think you should choose me.
0:52:47 > 0:52:52Spencer has sparked a bidding war in the Den as both Deborah Meaden
0:52:52 > 0:52:55and Peter Jones pitch to secure the deal.
0:52:56 > 0:53:00Is Nick Jenkins poised to open a fresh front in the battle?
0:53:05 > 0:53:07Well, Spencer, I was going to offer
0:53:07 > 0:53:10- you £500,000 for 5% of the company, but since you...- Because I...
0:53:10 > 0:53:14you already said you didn't want me before I had the chance to
0:53:14 > 0:53:18make an offer, I think, no, I'm going to pull back from that one.
0:53:19 > 0:53:24I can see the glint in Deborah's eye on this one.
0:53:24 > 0:53:25Not going to compete,
0:53:25 > 0:53:27but anyway, I wish you all the best of luck with it.
0:53:27 > 0:53:29- Thank you very much.- But I'm out.
0:53:31 > 0:53:34A rare show of deference as Nick Jenkins clears
0:53:34 > 0:53:38the way for his fellow Dragon to secure the investment.
0:53:39 > 0:53:40Thinking time over.
0:53:40 > 0:53:44Is Touker Suleyman ready to make his move?
0:53:47 > 0:53:49Spencer, I know about manufacturing.
0:53:49 > 0:53:51We have an office in China.
0:53:51 > 0:53:53I like it.
0:53:53 > 0:53:57I believe that I have more time that any Dragon here.
0:53:59 > 0:54:02I will fly to China with you and negotiate that deal.
0:54:03 > 0:54:05I don't believe the other two Dragons will.
0:54:07 > 0:54:09And I believe that what you need
0:54:09 > 0:54:13is not just the odd phone call here, the odd phone call there...
0:54:13 > 0:54:15Sorry, can I just be absolutely clear,
0:54:15 > 0:54:18just in case you're inferring that that's how I do business.
0:54:18 > 0:54:21No, none of my investments get the odd telephone call here...
0:54:21 > 0:54:25- Will you fly to China with him?- No, Stuart will fly to China with him.
0:54:25 > 0:54:26Oh, OK. I will fly to China with you.
0:54:26 > 0:54:29- You have absolutely no idea how I run my investments.- OK.
0:54:31 > 0:54:35I will make this happen and I will finance it beyond
0:54:35 > 0:54:37what I'm going to offer you...
0:54:37 > 0:54:39Because you're going to need money as working capital.
0:54:39 > 0:54:41So, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:54:41 > 0:54:43I'm going to give you 60,000...
0:54:44 > 0:54:45..for your 25%.
0:54:49 > 0:54:50Right, OK.
0:54:51 > 0:54:52That, I didn't expect.
0:54:55 > 0:54:57Touker Suleyman has offered
0:54:57 > 0:55:0315,000 more than Spencer's £45,000 asking price in an 11th-hour bid
0:55:03 > 0:55:04to clinch the deal.
0:55:06 > 0:55:08With four competing offers,
0:55:08 > 0:55:10including a proposal from Peter Jones
0:55:10 > 0:55:12to split the deal with Deborah Meaden,
0:55:12 > 0:55:15the ball is firmly in the entrepreneur's court.
0:55:24 > 0:55:26Thank you very much for your offer...
0:55:26 > 0:55:31..however, the fact that Deborah and Peter have got the background
0:55:31 > 0:55:33and experience already within this particular market,
0:55:33 > 0:55:37unfortunately just makes them in a much better, stronger position
0:55:37 > 0:55:38kind of thing.
0:55:39 > 0:55:43So, if Deborah was willing to and was happy to go down the same lines
0:55:43 > 0:55:45as Peter, I would be happy to do that.
0:55:45 > 0:55:49I've got a lot of investments with Peter and...
0:55:49 > 0:55:53I have to say on this one, because I can...
0:55:53 > 0:55:57- I can see it... - SHE LAUGHS
0:55:58 > 0:55:59..I've got to be really greedy.
0:56:02 > 0:56:05For me, this is one that I would like on my own.
0:56:05 > 0:56:06And that's why I suggested it
0:56:06 > 0:56:08cos I thought you'd have a chance at getting it,
0:56:08 > 0:56:10but now you probably won't.
0:56:12 > 0:56:14A surprising development
0:56:14 > 0:56:18as Deborah Meaden spurns an alliance with her fellow Dragon.
0:56:19 > 0:56:21It's decision time for Spencer.
0:56:23 > 0:56:26Deborah, again, thank YOU very much for your offer...
0:56:30 > 0:56:33..but if Peter, you're happy to do the same offer,
0:56:33 > 0:56:36- then I'd prefer to take it from yourself.- Yep.
0:56:36 > 0:56:37- Yep.- Done?- Done.- Great.
0:56:39 > 0:56:41- Thank you very much.- You did very well. Well done. Great pitch.
0:56:41 > 0:56:45- Thank you. Well...- No, no. Even the nerves, brilliant. Very exciting.
0:56:45 > 0:56:46Very good.
0:56:46 > 0:56:48- Very, very good. - Thanks very much. Thank you.
0:56:48 > 0:56:50- Thanks, Spencer.- Thank you.
0:56:50 > 0:56:52So, success for Spencer
0:56:52 > 0:56:57who leaves the Den with £45,000 he was originally seeking
0:56:57 > 0:56:59and the backing of a Dragon with the international clout
0:56:59 > 0:57:01to drive his invention to market.
0:57:05 > 0:57:09I'm obviously really excited and really happy to get Peter involved.
0:57:09 > 0:57:11He seems really positive about it as well.
0:57:11 > 0:57:13It's more than I would hope for.
0:57:15 > 0:57:17- I'm quite excited about that. - I was surprised, though.
0:57:17 > 0:57:20I must admit, I thought he was going to go with you. I really did.
0:57:20 > 0:57:23Until you came in with your whole Hong Kong innovation thing.
0:57:23 > 0:57:26- I was like, "Oh, here we go."- Oh, don't give me that. Everybody knows.
0:57:26 > 0:57:29You should have...you should have taken my offer, Deborah.
0:57:35 > 0:57:40Some entrepreneurs who have success in the Den have just two choices -
0:57:40 > 0:57:42to take an offer or leave it.
0:57:42 > 0:57:45Lloyd and Tasha and Pete chose to take theirs.
0:57:45 > 0:57:48But other entrepreneurs come here and get more options,
0:57:48 > 0:57:51like Spencer with his unique gas stove,
0:57:51 > 0:57:54which created a bidding war in the Den.
0:57:54 > 0:57:56But many offers or just one,
0:57:56 > 0:57:59it's enough to get you moving on the road to success.
0:57:59 > 0:58:04# Sum...mertime! #
0:58:06 > 0:58:08Coming up next time...
0:58:08 > 0:58:11- HE DRUMS - Don't give up your day job, Nick.
0:58:11 > 0:58:13LAUGHTER
0:58:13 > 0:58:17I think you are loopy to have stopped conversations.
0:58:18 > 0:58:23I'm just amazed how you got the audacity to come here today
0:58:23 > 0:58:26and say this is worth £1.5 million.
0:58:26 > 0:58:28I'm going to give you all the money for 20%.
0:58:28 > 0:58:31That market, they post it online themselves.
0:58:31 > 0:58:34- No, they don't.- They do!- No, they don't.- Yes, they do.- No, they don't.
0:58:34 > 0:58:36- They don't need this. - Of course they do.