0:00:07 > 0:00:08Wealthy...
0:00:12 > 0:00:14..astute...
0:00:14 > 0:00:15innovative...
0:00:17 > 0:00:19..fearless...
0:00:19 > 0:00:20..and shrewd.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25These are the Dragons.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27ROARING
0:00:30 > 0:00:33The heat is on in the Den.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35Together with formidable business giants
0:00:35 > 0:00:39Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden, are...
0:00:39 > 0:00:43Global fashion tycoon with over 40 years' retail experience -
0:00:43 > 0:00:44Touker Suleyman.
0:00:45 > 0:00:48The woman who turned her passion for food and drink into a
0:00:48 > 0:00:52multi-million pound business empire - Sarah Willingham.
0:00:53 > 0:00:54And the man who sold his online
0:00:54 > 0:00:58greetings card business for £120 million -
0:00:58 > 0:00:59Nick Jenkins.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03For entrepreneurs,
0:01:03 > 0:01:06it's the toughest business pitch of their lives.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10Do they have what it takes to face the Dragons?
0:01:16 > 0:01:18Welcome to Dragons' Den.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21A fresh batch of nervous entrepreneurs
0:01:21 > 0:01:22are putting the finishing touches
0:01:22 > 0:01:24to what they hope will be
0:01:24 > 0:01:26the elevator pitch of a lifetime.
0:01:26 > 0:01:30The Dragons sit and wait, but it's their own cash at stake,
0:01:30 > 0:01:33so they'll only pounce when the deal is right.
0:01:35 > 0:01:37Coming up on tonight's show...
0:01:38 > 0:01:41Now, just let it settle. It will settle into a perfect pint.
0:01:42 > 0:01:46You're about to torpedo what is a lovely business.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50I really like it and I can completely see who your market is.
0:01:51 > 0:01:54It's a bit like you're the honey pot.
0:01:54 > 0:01:56I just don't want to be the one that's stung.
0:01:56 > 0:01:59I think you're going to make a go of this.
0:01:59 > 0:02:03You will not make any money.
0:02:03 > 0:02:04It's impossible.
0:02:04 > 0:02:07We have uncovered some incredible opportunities.
0:02:07 > 0:02:09What, have you found gold?
0:02:13 > 0:02:17The first entrepreneur into the Den is David Kendall, from Birmingham.
0:02:17 > 0:02:20He's juggling running a business with becoming
0:02:20 > 0:02:23a parent for the first time, just a few weeks ago.
0:02:23 > 0:02:28So, handling the Dragons should be easy in comparison, shouldn't it?
0:02:34 > 0:02:37About three weeks ago, my wife and I had a little baby boy.
0:02:37 > 0:02:40I've had absolutely no sleep ever since.
0:02:41 > 0:02:46I think my objectives and focuses for life have change somewhat.
0:02:46 > 0:02:47I think business and, you know,
0:02:47 > 0:02:51making profit are certainly more important now.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54If I get an investment, it'll mean everything to me.
0:02:54 > 0:02:57All I've got to do at this stage is stay awake, I suppose.
0:03:03 > 0:03:05Hello, Dragons. My name's David Kendall
0:03:05 > 0:03:09and I'm here today to ask you for a £50,000 investment
0:03:09 > 0:03:13in exchange for a 25% share in my company, Slappie Limited.
0:03:13 > 0:03:16Slappie was launched in 2012,
0:03:16 > 0:03:18and today is traded, purely on the website,
0:03:18 > 0:03:20in the slap watch product,
0:03:20 > 0:03:24and each complete unit consists of the following -
0:03:24 > 0:03:26a slap bracelet,
0:03:26 > 0:03:28a little bit like so.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31We have an interchangeable watch face,
0:03:31 > 0:03:32like so,
0:03:32 > 0:03:36and we have a Slappie sphere packaging ball.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39Slappie's sold some £105,000 worth of slap watches
0:03:39 > 0:03:41in the past two years,
0:03:41 > 0:03:44yielding a very healthy 65% margin.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49I took over Slappie the back end of last year.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52I love the vibrant, funky and quirky image of the product and the brand,
0:03:52 > 0:03:56and I felt that it had tremendous potential for the future.
0:03:56 > 0:04:00I feel that Slappie has fantastic potential in terms of retail
0:04:00 > 0:04:02and I think that together with the support of a Dragon,
0:04:02 > 0:04:05we can make this brand a global success.
0:04:07 > 0:04:10A pitch and a product with mainstream appeal,
0:04:10 > 0:04:12from David Kendall.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14These have been aptly named on our social media sites
0:04:14 > 0:04:18by some of our customers, that one is a Pink Animal for you...
0:04:18 > 0:04:21He's looking for a £50,000 investment
0:04:21 > 0:04:25to help promote his unusual range of wrap-around watches.
0:04:25 > 0:04:28For you, Deborah, we have The Love Bug, as my wife calls it.
0:04:28 > 0:04:31Thank you very much, that's an interesting choice.
0:04:31 > 0:04:35In return, he's offering the Dragons 25% of his company.
0:04:37 > 0:04:43Peter Jones wants to find out exactly what's on the table.
0:04:43 > 0:04:48- Dave, erm, you mentioned that you acquired this company.- Yes.
0:04:48 > 0:04:49What did you pay for it?
0:04:49 > 0:04:52£75,000 and I've put additional stock in place,
0:04:52 > 0:04:55additional costs developing the website.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58It probably owes me in the region of £107,000
0:04:58 > 0:05:00and about three months of my life so far.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03And what did it turn over in its last financial year?
0:05:03 > 0:05:06It turned over £45,000 in 2014
0:05:06 > 0:05:11and it turned over £63,000 in 2013.
0:05:11 > 0:05:17I envisage the company turning over circa £500,000 in 2016,
0:05:17 > 0:05:21circa £2 million in 2017, and circa £3.8 million pounds in 2018.
0:05:23 > 0:05:27Optimistic financial projections, confidently delivered.
0:05:30 > 0:05:31But Nick Jenkins is wondering
0:05:31 > 0:05:35whether David's watches have already had their moment.
0:05:37 > 0:05:40David, one of my concerns about this is that every once in a while
0:05:40 > 0:05:42something comes a long that has a wave.
0:05:42 > 0:05:45I'm just a bit concerned that the first wave has passed.
0:05:45 > 0:05:47Yeah, I know, I appreciate your points, Nick,
0:05:47 > 0:05:50and it's something that I've thought of myself when I took over it.
0:05:50 > 0:05:54I haven't marketed this as of yet in its retail myself,
0:05:54 > 0:05:59but I have had some organic contact from some pretty big retailers.
0:05:59 > 0:06:02So there does seem to be some interest around it.
0:06:02 > 0:06:05Can I ask you which ones and what's that interest?
0:06:05 > 0:06:08- We've been contacted back in January by Claire's Accessories.- Right.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11We're in discussions with Not In The High Street
0:06:11 > 0:06:13and we're in discussions with Wicked Uncle.
0:06:13 > 0:06:16Great, and what does "in discussions" mean.
0:06:16 > 0:06:18- I mean, how far down the track? - Very, very early stages.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22With a magic wand, though, where would you be?
0:06:22 > 0:06:25With a magic wand, I'd be in Selfridges.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28I'd have licensing deals with a number of major football clubs
0:06:28 > 0:06:32or big brands, be in Urban Outfitters,
0:06:32 > 0:06:33and I'd be in other funky
0:06:33 > 0:06:35alternative shops, et cetera, et cetera.
0:06:35 > 0:06:39That's where I would want the product to be in an ideal world.
0:06:39 > 0:06:41See, what scares me a little bit,
0:06:41 > 0:06:43listening to you, to be totally honest,
0:06:43 > 0:06:45erm...
0:06:45 > 0:06:49is I think, I'm not sure you really know where you want to be.
0:06:50 > 0:06:55I think you're a bit, like, anywhere where this might sell.
0:06:57 > 0:07:01David's scatter-gun approach to where to sell his product has
0:07:01 > 0:07:04sent alarm bells ringing for Sarah Willingham
0:07:04 > 0:07:07and it's left Peter Jones concerned that
0:07:07 > 0:07:11he is an entrepreneur who likes to spread himself thinly.
0:07:11 > 0:07:14Dave, what else do you do apart from a Slappie watch?
0:07:14 > 0:07:16I own a management consultancy.
0:07:16 > 0:07:17I've got some staff,
0:07:17 > 0:07:20and I've structured that in a way that allows me to now focus on this.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23And what's going to happen if somebody invests?
0:07:23 > 0:07:26Erm, I haven't quite decided what I want to do yet.
0:07:26 > 0:07:28All I do know is I'm ready for a new challenge,
0:07:28 > 0:07:31- hence I bought this, to be honest with you.- Yeah.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33I've jumped into this with both feet.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35Are you quite impulsive, David?
0:07:35 > 0:07:37Do you do some quite obscure things?
0:07:37 > 0:07:39No, I wouldn't go that far.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42Erm, I, you know, I'm quite instinctive.
0:07:42 > 0:07:46But I think you could be the issue to this business not progressing.
0:07:47 > 0:07:51You've got a business, you've seen this is an opportunity.
0:07:51 > 0:07:55I think you might have a pending conflict of interests there coming.
0:07:55 > 0:07:58You could be diverted, and your attention diverted,
0:07:58 > 0:08:00and that's what really concerns me.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03So, I'm going to pass on the investment,
0:08:03 > 0:08:06I'm going to say I'm out.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08Thank you, Peter.
0:08:10 > 0:08:14David has lost his first Dragon, as concerns over his level
0:08:14 > 0:08:19of commitment to his new business cause Peter Jones to walk away.
0:08:20 > 0:08:25Will Sarah Willingham set aside her earlier anxieties in order to
0:08:25 > 0:08:27make the entrepreneur an offer?
0:08:29 > 0:08:33My issue is, I think you'll struggle in big retail, I really do.
0:08:33 > 0:08:36I don't think this is a product that you would go to large
0:08:36 > 0:08:39retailers and end up taking off the shelf.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42I see it selling in independent gift shops,
0:08:42 > 0:08:45because that's where people go to browse, and those independent
0:08:45 > 0:08:47gift shops are very, very difficult
0:08:47 > 0:08:50- because there's so many of them.- So many of them. Yeah, quite right.
0:08:50 > 0:08:52So, as an investment for me,
0:08:52 > 0:08:55I'm really sorry, it's not one where I think I can make a really
0:08:55 > 0:08:59big difference to you so, for that reason, I am out.
0:08:59 > 0:09:02Thank you for your comments, Sarah. I appreciate them, thank you.
0:09:03 > 0:09:06Dave, I'm going to tell you where I am.
0:09:06 > 0:09:08You're going to feel very dissatisfied with
0:09:08 > 0:09:11what I'm about to say next, because it's not really going to
0:09:11 > 0:09:14offer you a lot. I have to look at something and think,
0:09:14 > 0:09:16- "I, I..." You know?- I appreciate that.- "Oh! oh!"
0:09:16 > 0:09:18Yeah, I know, I do appreciate that.
0:09:18 > 0:09:20"I know! I know what we can do with that!"
0:09:20 > 0:09:22- And it's just not getting me.- OK.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27So, I'm really sorry, Dave. I'm out.
0:09:30 > 0:09:35With two more Dragons gone, David's prospects appear increasingly bleak.
0:09:36 > 0:09:41In this particular instance, time is most definitely money.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44And it's the watch company's balance sheet that is preoccupying
0:09:44 > 0:09:45Nick Jenkins.
0:09:47 > 0:09:50David, you mentioned £107,000 worth of debt.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53Is that actually in the company? Is that...?
0:09:53 > 0:09:56Yes, well, it's technically, I've paid it myself.
0:09:56 > 0:09:58Right, right, no, no, but, in the sense,
0:09:58 > 0:10:01- does the company owe you £107,000? - Technically, yes, it's a...
0:10:01 > 0:10:03No, I mean, technically, from an accounting point of view,
0:10:03 > 0:10:05- is that sitting in the accounts? - Yeah.- Mmm.
0:10:05 > 0:10:09OK. Now, I mean, I think one thing you have done, is,
0:10:09 > 0:10:11you've been very sensible about what you've asked for,
0:10:11 > 0:10:13but what does that £50,000 do?
0:10:13 > 0:10:15I want to get the product trendy, OK?
0:10:15 > 0:10:18I want to get it on people's wrists. I want to get it in playgrounds, OK?
0:10:18 > 0:10:20I want to increase the online sales
0:10:20 > 0:10:23and I want to get it into some retailers.
0:10:23 > 0:10:26It's a long shot. You've got a brand
0:10:26 > 0:10:29- and you've got a supplier.- Mm-hm.
0:10:29 > 0:10:32- This mould, there's no patent. - There's no patent.
0:10:32 > 0:10:36No patent, and the business is already in debt to you.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38It's got to, it's got to take somebody
0:10:38 > 0:10:40who's got a gut feeling for it.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44- Do you owe your suppliers any money? - No, not a penny.
0:10:44 > 0:10:46- So you don't owe anybody any money. - I don't owe anybody any...
0:10:46 > 0:10:48- Apart from yourself.- Apart from me.
0:10:51 > 0:10:53OK.
0:10:53 > 0:10:55And if you had the money,
0:10:55 > 0:10:57how much time would you dedicate for this?
0:10:57 > 0:10:58I'm going to do what it takes
0:10:58 > 0:11:01to make this succeed. I've never failed at anything in my life
0:11:01 > 0:11:03and I've got no intention of starting now, so...
0:11:03 > 0:11:07- So, you've put everything in now to make this work?- Yeah.- Good.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09I'm going to make you an offer.
0:11:11 > 0:11:13Lovely.
0:11:13 > 0:11:16I can offer you support on the website.
0:11:16 > 0:11:19I can offer you warehouse distributors...
0:11:21 > 0:11:23..and give you all the support that will make this brand
0:11:23 > 0:11:25go to the next level.
0:11:26 > 0:11:30But I want you to capitalise your 107,000, as capital...
0:11:31 > 0:11:34..so the company doesn't owe you any money.
0:11:34 > 0:11:38I'm going to give you 50,000, but I want 45%.
0:11:40 > 0:11:41Interesting. Thank you, Touker.
0:11:43 > 0:11:48An offer from Touker Suleyman, but it comes at a price,
0:11:48 > 0:11:52nearly half of the equity, as well as an undertaking to write off
0:11:52 > 0:11:58the six-figure sum that David is currently owed by his own company.
0:12:00 > 0:12:04With a proven track record in online brand building, Nick Jenkins
0:12:04 > 0:12:09could be David's perfect investor, but does he want to do a deal?
0:12:11 > 0:12:15David, it does concern me that you've had a successful business
0:12:15 > 0:12:17and you want to replace that with this.
0:12:17 > 0:12:20So, what would you expect to draw from this?
0:12:20 > 0:12:25You know, I'll be honest with you. I'm not in this for immediate gain.
0:12:25 > 0:12:28- My objective is increase in that worth of the business...- Yeah.
0:12:28 > 0:12:30..so that in five years' time make a decision as to what to do with it.
0:12:30 > 0:12:35- Sure.- It's not a short-term solution for me in that regard, so...- OK.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40Erm, I'm going to make you an offer as well.
0:12:42 > 0:12:44I'm going to make you an offer
0:12:44 > 0:12:47of all of the money for 45%,
0:12:47 > 0:12:51but what I would put into that is add some time
0:12:51 > 0:12:54and some team to really help develop the brand
0:12:54 > 0:12:58and take what you've got there, and to grow it.
0:13:01 > 0:13:02Thank you, Nick. Yeah.
0:13:04 > 0:13:09A further offer from Nick Jenkins, who, like Touker Suleyman,
0:13:09 > 0:13:12wants David to give up a chunky 45%.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17Plenty to think about for the entrepreneur.
0:13:18 > 0:13:20I'd love to work with all of you guys, truth be told.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24Erm, you know, I'll get that point over straightaway.
0:13:26 > 0:13:30- You know...- Shall I just repeat what I've just said?
0:13:30 > 0:13:34You'll give me 45%, for £50,000, you'll give me fulfilment support...
0:13:34 > 0:13:36- Yes.- ..distribution support...
0:13:36 > 0:13:39- Yes.- ..and get the products out there...- And online.- ..and online.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43And then we can talk about rebranding to enlarge the business.
0:13:47 > 0:13:50David, on the debt side, what I would simply say is,
0:13:50 > 0:13:54that needs to be repaid out of one third of the profits,
0:13:54 > 0:13:57so you have to make £300,000 and then your money gets paid back.
0:14:03 > 0:14:06Wow, OK. Can I go and have a chat with the wall for two minutes?
0:14:06 > 0:14:08- Is that all right?- Please do.
0:14:09 > 0:14:14Both Dragons are offering to help build the entrepreneur's brand.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17But each has a very different view on how best to deal with
0:14:17 > 0:14:20the business' outstanding debts.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25The time has come for David to make up his mind.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32I've made a decision.
0:14:34 > 0:14:37And my decision is probably based upon the set-up in terms
0:14:37 > 0:14:40of the £107,000, and for that reason I'm going to go with Nick.
0:14:40 > 0:14:44But, Touker, I am most grateful for your offer, and for your time.
0:14:44 > 0:14:48- Congratulations.- Well done.- Thank you. Thank you very much. Cheers.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50So, success for David,
0:14:50 > 0:14:54whose business now seems guaranteed to run like clockwork.
0:14:54 > 0:14:56Well done.
0:14:56 > 0:14:58Two Dragons were vying for the deal,
0:14:58 > 0:15:02but Nick Jenkins' last-minute offer of more favourable terms
0:15:02 > 0:15:04ultimately won the day.
0:15:06 > 0:15:10Wow, what an experience. Hmm. It was extremely tight.
0:15:10 > 0:15:13It was purely the debt was the reason I went for Nick.
0:15:13 > 0:15:17- Nick, Well done.- I didn't realise you were going to make an offer.
0:15:17 > 0:15:19That's why you let, you let me do the offer first.
0:15:19 > 0:15:2245% is a big percentage,
0:15:22 > 0:15:25but I'll take 55% of a business with Nick,
0:15:25 > 0:15:28rather than 100% of the business on my own.
0:15:28 > 0:15:29It's worth it.
0:15:44 > 0:15:45Next in the Den.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50(The last drink.)
0:15:52 > 0:15:56Product designers and camping enthusiasts Jonathan Harrison
0:15:56 > 0:15:58and Jonathan Schofield.
0:15:58 > 0:16:00I was a cub scout.
0:16:00 > 0:16:01My dad was in the army,
0:16:01 > 0:16:05so I've had it throughout my upbringing,
0:16:05 > 0:16:09and to actually create a product from scratch
0:16:09 > 0:16:13in this marketplace is fantastic.
0:16:15 > 0:16:18They certainly know which Dragon they want,
0:16:18 > 0:16:20and why they want her.
0:16:21 > 0:16:24I think Deborah Meaden would be a really exciting Dragon to
0:16:24 > 0:16:25have on board for us.
0:16:25 > 0:16:29Obviously with her knowledge of the camping
0:16:29 > 0:16:30and recreational vehicle market,
0:16:30 > 0:16:33we feel that it would be a brilliant opportunity,
0:16:33 > 0:16:36and probably could bring other angles to the project as well.
0:16:45 > 0:16:46Hello, Dragons.
0:16:46 > 0:16:50My name's Jonathan Harrison. This is the OPUS Camper,
0:16:50 > 0:16:53the world's most exciting mobile glamping product.
0:16:53 > 0:16:58We are looking for an £80,000 investment,
0:16:58 > 0:17:03for 5% in this start-up company.
0:17:03 > 0:17:05My name's Jonathan Schofield, and I'd like to
0:17:05 > 0:17:09take you through the features and benefits of the OPUS Camper.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12So the OPUS Camper is a fully-braked trailer.
0:17:12 > 0:17:18It's designed to take boats, bikes, kayaks and even a motorbike.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20And it's designed, when you actually get to your
0:17:20 > 0:17:22end destination, you can remove
0:17:22 > 0:17:24all your outdoor adventure toys,
0:17:24 > 0:17:28then the OPUS Trailer becomes the OPUS Camper.
0:17:28 > 0:17:32Inside, you'll find it's got two king-sized beds at either end,
0:17:32 > 0:17:37it's got running water, it's got heating, it's got gas and electric
0:17:37 > 0:17:41cooking, it's got a refrigerator in there, as well, and even a toilet.
0:17:41 > 0:17:45We would really like to have investment from
0:17:45 > 0:17:47a high-profile Dragon,
0:17:47 > 0:17:52raise the brand-awareness and really, hopefully,
0:17:52 > 0:17:56turn our dreams of selling 500 units a reality
0:17:56 > 0:17:58within the coming years.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00And we'd really like to invite you, Dragons,
0:18:00 > 0:18:01to come up and have a look inside.
0:18:03 > 0:18:08Part-caravan, part-trailer, and part-tent.
0:18:08 > 0:18:10It's a wholly original offering
0:18:10 > 0:18:13from Jonathan Harrison and Jonathan Schofield.
0:18:13 > 0:18:14Gosh.
0:18:14 > 0:18:17It's actually amazing.
0:18:17 > 0:18:18It's much bigger than I thought.
0:18:18 > 0:18:23They're seeking £80,000 in return for a 5% stake
0:18:23 > 0:18:25in their new camper company.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28It looks like this would take me a week to turn into a
0:18:28 > 0:18:31- tent from the trailer.- I don't think, I think you'd have
0:18:31 > 0:18:32to assemble this.
0:18:32 > 0:18:34But a quick look around the product,
0:18:34 > 0:18:38has left Sarah Willingham reaching for the instruction manual.
0:18:42 > 0:18:48How long does that take to change that into that?
0:18:48 > 0:18:50And how many people does it take?
0:18:50 > 0:18:52It can be done by one person,
0:18:52 > 0:18:55cos the process is only opening both the panels like that,
0:18:55 > 0:18:58so it opens a bit like a Silver Cross pram,
0:18:58 > 0:19:00and then you wind the corner legs down at either side,
0:19:00 > 0:19:02and the bed supports, and then you're inside.
0:19:02 > 0:19:05So it takes about 20 minutes.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08So, so a numpty like me
0:19:08 > 0:19:11- could put that up in 20 minutes... - Yeah.
0:19:11 > 0:19:12..even the inside.
0:19:12 > 0:19:15So, yeah, I mean, it's all very... I mean, it's very easy.
0:19:15 > 0:19:17You're just lifting things into position,
0:19:17 > 0:19:19it's not, sort of, a jigsaw type of puzzle.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21Wow, and all the top and everything.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23Yeah, that's all fixed into position, yeah.
0:19:23 > 0:19:27I don't think I've ever been into a tent or a caravan
0:19:27 > 0:19:30without hitting my head.
0:19:30 > 0:19:31We did have you in mind with this.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34No, it's the first time I've ever walked in and thought, "Wow.
0:19:34 > 0:19:36"I don't have to duck."
0:19:36 > 0:19:40Big thing for me was the toilet inside,
0:19:40 > 0:19:44cos if you imagine at night and you want to go out for a number two,
0:19:44 > 0:19:47and you've got a full house,
0:19:47 > 0:19:49it's going to be quite embarrassing.
0:19:49 > 0:19:51So how, how can you sort of deal with that?
0:19:51 > 0:19:54Cos that's the only thing that's kind of putting me off.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56There's an awning, which is like an extra tent,
0:19:56 > 0:19:59which can go on the front, which kind of gives you like a lobby area,
0:19:59 > 0:20:01and to the side of that you can have the little pod, which is
0:20:01 > 0:20:04a closed-off area, and you can put the toilet there.
0:20:04 > 0:20:06I can't believe you actually go to the toilet, Peter,
0:20:06 > 0:20:09- I had absolutely no idea. - Well, it doesn't smell, my poo.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12THEY LAUGH
0:20:15 > 0:20:19Despite Peter Jones' attempts to pooh-pooh their product,
0:20:19 > 0:20:22the entrepreneurs are still smelling of roses.
0:20:22 > 0:20:26But it is established leisure industry player Deborah Meaden
0:20:26 > 0:20:29who the pair are really looking to impress.
0:20:33 > 0:20:40So, what's the closest equivalent that you have on this at the moment?
0:20:40 > 0:20:43Because I have seen some trailers with pop-up tops.
0:20:43 > 0:20:47A lot of these things are things from the '70s and '80s.
0:20:47 > 0:20:50And some of the ones you probably see out there now are probably ones
0:20:50 > 0:20:52which are still being used.
0:20:52 > 0:20:53We wanted to give it a really modern feel.
0:20:53 > 0:20:55And think, "What can we change about it?"
0:20:55 > 0:20:58And what we've done which is different is we've kind of put
0:20:58 > 0:21:01the curves in it and raised the ceiling, you know,
0:21:01 > 0:21:03to give you the advantage of being canvas.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06And what's the market doing? I mean, where have you shown?
0:21:06 > 0:21:08You must've been to the caravan show, what happened?
0:21:08 > 0:21:11We kind of find that if someone expects a caravan,
0:21:11 > 0:21:14they probably are not going to have this product.
0:21:14 > 0:21:15So it kind of tends to be people who go,
0:21:15 > 0:21:18"Actually, I would never be in the market for a caravan."
0:21:18 > 0:21:22"Yeah, I'd have a VW camper, that's kind of cool."
0:21:22 > 0:21:25But a VW camper which is going to cost £40,000 to £50,000
0:21:25 > 0:21:29and this being kind of the...the £12,000 mark,
0:21:29 > 0:21:31it's much more affordable.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36The camping and caravanning entrepreneurs
0:21:36 > 0:21:41and their Dragon of choice appear to be speaking the same language.
0:21:41 > 0:21:45And Sarah Willingham is curious about the individuals
0:21:45 > 0:21:47behind the innovation.
0:21:49 > 0:21:51What made you do this?
0:21:51 > 0:21:55Are you just good campers or have you been in the industry?
0:21:55 > 0:21:58We've been in the industry making accessories for the caravan market
0:21:58 > 0:22:01since about 2002.
0:22:01 > 0:22:03Purple Line is the foundation company.
0:22:03 > 0:22:06- Jonathan's got that business. - Tell us about the existing business.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09What does that turnover? What does it...? How is it going?
0:22:09 > 0:22:14The latest accounts, we did...
0:22:14 > 0:22:18I think it was 3.4 million turnover,
0:22:18 > 0:22:23made a profit of just shy of 500,000.
0:22:23 > 0:22:25And it's a wholesale business.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28So we are looking to hive off
0:22:28 > 0:22:31this retail business with the OPUS Camper.
0:22:34 > 0:22:36Why don't you just keep it in the existing business?
0:22:36 > 0:22:3980 grand for 5% all in?
0:22:40 > 0:22:44- LAUGHING:- You might have five very interested Dragons on that basis!
0:22:44 > 0:22:47For the OPUS Camper, that's what we are presenting to you today.
0:22:47 > 0:22:51I'm not looking for investment into the Purple Line business.
0:22:55 > 0:22:59It's bad news for the deal-hungry Dragons as Jonathan
0:22:59 > 0:23:03places his existing business out of bounds.
0:23:04 > 0:23:06And the relationship between the old
0:23:06 > 0:23:08and new parts of his empire
0:23:08 > 0:23:11is puzzling Touker Suleyman.
0:23:14 > 0:23:16I have a bit of manufacturing background.
0:23:16 > 0:23:20Are we saying that Purple Line going forward would manufacture them
0:23:20 > 0:23:22and OPUS would buy from Purple Line?
0:23:22 > 0:23:26Or will OPUS be a manufacturer? I don't quite get it.
0:23:26 > 0:23:28No, I think OPUS will be the manufacturer.
0:23:28 > 0:23:32This is the business model we are doing with Australia
0:23:32 > 0:23:33and America as well.
0:23:33 > 0:23:36I've got a sister company, one in Australia and one in California.
0:23:36 > 0:23:41They tap into our CAD engineering expertise,
0:23:41 > 0:23:43our marketing, graphic design.
0:23:43 > 0:23:47They are smaller operations. And that's working well.
0:23:47 > 0:23:48Can I just clarify?
0:23:48 > 0:23:51You've got a business doing this in Australia and America,
0:23:51 > 0:23:54so we can only really be in the UK?
0:23:54 > 0:23:55- Yes.- So this is, effectively,
0:23:55 > 0:23:58sort of a UK distributorship of an idea.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01Without any... That's it, isn't it?
0:24:01 > 0:24:03- UK distributor... - That's effectively what it is.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06If we're not allowed to sell these things in Australia and America,
0:24:06 > 0:24:09where there is a big market, cos you're already doing that,
0:24:09 > 0:24:11you're giving us a chance - thank you very much -
0:24:11 > 0:24:16to be a salesman in your distributorship in the UK.
0:24:16 > 0:24:18Well, look, one of the reasons I came onto this show,
0:24:18 > 0:24:20I quite enjoy working with people who have had an idea
0:24:20 > 0:24:22and they want to make it come to reality
0:24:22 > 0:24:24and they need a bit of help to come along with it.
0:24:24 > 0:24:26You can see their dreams come true.
0:24:26 > 0:24:28But I didn't come on the show to become a salesman
0:24:28 > 0:24:29for someone's minor subsidiary.
0:24:31 > 0:24:32I'm out.
0:24:35 > 0:24:39With only a slice of the domestic camper market up for grabs,
0:24:39 > 0:24:43a disgruntled Nick Jenkins has turned down the deal.
0:24:44 > 0:24:49Will Sarah Willingham prove any more open to investing on those terms?
0:24:52 > 0:24:55I personally find it very difficult to get very excited
0:24:55 > 0:24:58and work very hard on the UK market knowing you are opening up
0:24:58 > 0:25:02lots of other doors of which I would never be part of.
0:25:03 > 0:25:08But...I really like it. And I can completely see who your market is.
0:25:10 > 0:25:11I'd like to make you an offer.
0:25:14 > 0:25:18I'd like to offer you all of the money for 10% of your existing
0:25:18 > 0:25:23business, but as soon as we hit 200 units,
0:25:23 > 0:25:26you can buy back half of my shareholding,
0:25:26 > 0:25:28taking me down to 5%...
0:25:29 > 0:25:32..at the same price as I invest in today.
0:25:34 > 0:25:37Sarah Willingham is first to test the water.
0:25:37 > 0:25:40She has offered the full £80,000.
0:25:40 > 0:25:43But in return, she wants a slice of Jonathan's lucrative
0:25:43 > 0:25:45camping accessory company.
0:25:47 > 0:25:51With the poker-faced entrepreneur giving nothing away,
0:25:51 > 0:25:54it's time for Peter Jones to chance his hand.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58I was sitting here really excited about the opportunity.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01And it's kind of...
0:26:01 > 0:26:02It's falling apart, really.
0:26:02 > 0:26:05Because, whilst the product is amazing,
0:26:05 > 0:26:07everything filters back to Purple Line.
0:26:09 > 0:26:12It is a bit like you're the honey pot.
0:26:12 > 0:26:14I just don't want to be the one that's stung.
0:26:17 > 0:26:20So, Jonathan, I am going to give you an issue to think about.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22I'm going to make you an offer.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25I'm going to offer you all of the money...
0:26:25 > 0:26:27but I want 10% of Purple Line.
0:26:33 > 0:26:37Two Dragons are now in but only on condition that Jonathan
0:26:37 > 0:26:40folds his existing business into the deal.
0:26:42 > 0:26:45Will clothing magnate Touker Suleyman follow suit?
0:26:47 > 0:26:49OK, so...
0:26:49 > 0:26:51Guys, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:26:51 > 0:26:56I will give you all of the money for 10% of Purple Line
0:26:56 > 0:27:00or all of the money for 25% of OPUS.
0:27:03 > 0:27:06A dual offer for the pair to consider.
0:27:06 > 0:27:10Touker Suleyman's willingness to invest in just the camper business,
0:27:10 > 0:27:13putting him in pole position to snap up the deal.
0:27:15 > 0:27:17But one Dragon is still to play.
0:27:17 > 0:27:19And with her background
0:27:19 > 0:27:21in the camping and caravanning industry,
0:27:21 > 0:27:24she could hold all the cards.
0:27:25 > 0:27:29You have made it very difficult because, actually,
0:27:29 > 0:27:31when you talked about the global reach,
0:27:31 > 0:27:33that was the bit that started getting quite exciting,
0:27:33 > 0:27:37and then I thought, "Actually, it's the UK and Europe," and that's...
0:27:38 > 0:27:40..quite different.
0:27:42 > 0:27:43But I do like it.
0:27:45 > 0:27:48So I'm going to make you an offer for all of the money,
0:27:48 > 0:27:50but I want 25% of the business.
0:27:52 > 0:27:55And I am being clear, it is about the OPUS business.
0:27:56 > 0:27:58Um...
0:27:58 > 0:28:00Can we have a chat?
0:28:06 > 0:28:11So for the two entrepreneurs, a difficult decision.
0:28:11 > 0:28:13- WHISPERS:- I like Sarah's offer.
0:28:13 > 0:28:16Do you? I like Deborah's offer.
0:28:16 > 0:28:19Deborah is going to bring the most in the party.
0:28:19 > 0:28:21Or with their preferred Dragon
0:28:21 > 0:28:23confining her offer to their new business,
0:28:23 > 0:28:26perhaps, for once, it is a straightforward one.
0:28:31 > 0:28:34- That was a bit too quick. - Was it?- Yeah.- Sorry.
0:28:34 > 0:28:37No disrespect to any of you guys, but there was obviously one
0:28:37 > 0:28:40Dragon we kind of felt would be really good for the business.
0:28:40 > 0:28:44- Well, just before you say that, can I make you another offer then?- Yeah.
0:28:44 > 0:28:46Cos you're clearly going for Deborah.
0:28:46 > 0:28:49Which really, really hacks me off.
0:28:49 > 0:28:51And it's not right.
0:28:51 > 0:28:52What do you mean it's not right?!
0:28:52 > 0:28:55SHE LAUGHS
0:28:55 > 0:28:56It's spot-on.
0:28:59 > 0:29:02I would be willing
0:29:02 > 0:29:06to halve my Purple Line 10% with Deborah...
0:29:08 > 0:29:10..so that I would own 5%.
0:29:10 > 0:29:12- Thank you, Peter. - Thank you, Peter.- Thank you.
0:29:16 > 0:29:19Um, yeah, thank you all, Dragons.
0:29:19 > 0:29:22You know, prior to coming in,
0:29:22 > 0:29:25we were definitely hoping to call one particular Dragon.
0:29:25 > 0:29:29We would love to go ahead and work alongside you, Deborah.
0:29:29 > 0:29:31- Great start!- That's a great show of luck.- Excellent!
0:29:31 > 0:29:34How much fun, eh? It's going to be a festival.
0:29:34 > 0:29:37I have to spend my summer doing festivals. Marvellous. Brilliant.
0:29:37 > 0:29:39- Thank you.- Thank you very much.
0:29:39 > 0:29:42So two very happy campers leave the Den...
0:29:42 > 0:29:43Mind the trap door.
0:29:43 > 0:29:45..having succeeded in securing
0:29:45 > 0:29:47the Dragon investor of their choice...
0:29:47 > 0:29:48High-five.
0:29:50 > 0:29:55..not to mention a substantial £80,000 cash injection.
0:29:55 > 0:29:58It is the turbo charge that we really wanted for the business,
0:29:58 > 0:29:59to really take us to the next level.
0:29:59 > 0:30:01Well, the way I look at it, I didn't lose.
0:30:01 > 0:30:02I didn't want that deal anyway(!)
0:30:02 > 0:30:04- I did. - SHE LAUGHS
0:30:04 > 0:30:06- Not smart enough, Peter? - TOUKER:- Well done, Deborah.
0:30:06 > 0:30:10To team up with Deborah is fantastic news for us
0:30:10 > 0:30:15and will really give all the team great encouragement moving forward.
0:30:28 > 0:30:30With huge cash investments to play for,
0:30:30 > 0:30:33the Den is no place for the indecisive.
0:30:34 > 0:30:37Scottish entrepreneur Calum Leslie came to the Dragons
0:30:37 > 0:30:44looking for £75,000 in return for a 10% stake in his smartphone app
0:30:44 > 0:30:46which lets the selfie generation
0:30:46 > 0:30:48make all those tough decisions for you.
0:30:48 > 0:30:51One evening, I was at a party chatting to a girl
0:30:51 > 0:30:53and I thought things were going pretty well
0:30:53 > 0:30:56until she literally stopped me - mid-sentence - reached down,
0:30:56 > 0:30:59pulled out her phone and took a picture of me.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01I was like, "Why are you taking a picture of me?"
0:31:01 > 0:31:04And she said, "I am taking a picture of you to find out
0:31:04 > 0:31:06"whether or not my friends think you're hot."
0:31:06 > 0:31:09That led me to think about all the different types of questions
0:31:09 > 0:31:12that people like to ask. This is where our app Wooju comes in.
0:31:13 > 0:31:15So you open up the app...
0:31:15 > 0:31:18Time to put the app to the test with a pic to rival
0:31:18 > 0:31:20that famous Oscar selfie.
0:31:20 > 0:31:22You then take a picture.
0:31:22 > 0:31:23Oh, smile.
0:31:24 > 0:31:27And then the next thing you do is, up at the top,
0:31:27 > 0:31:28you can pop in your questions.
0:31:28 > 0:31:31So the question we'll ask is, "Would you invest?"
0:31:31 > 0:31:34Ah, OK, now that's a good question!
0:31:34 > 0:31:38But the real value of any app is how many users it can boast.
0:31:38 > 0:31:41We've got 21,000 users so far.
0:31:41 > 0:31:44Are you pleased with your 21,000 in 12 months?
0:31:44 > 0:31:46As long as we're hitting the tens of thousands of users
0:31:46 > 0:31:49within year one, then we're pretty pleased with that.
0:31:49 > 0:31:52Calum was confident that his smartphone app
0:31:52 > 0:31:54was on course for critical mass.
0:31:54 > 0:31:58But Sarah Willingham was worried it was a very crowded market.
0:31:58 > 0:32:04The thing that scares me to death is just how much money it takes
0:32:04 > 0:32:10unless you just hit that wave so perfectly that you surf in
0:32:10 > 0:32:12and suddenly you've got your million users.
0:32:12 > 0:32:16So, monthly active users - about 1,500 monthly actives.
0:32:16 > 0:32:1821,000 people have signed up.
0:32:18 > 0:32:21Most of the people...
0:32:21 > 0:32:22are not using it.
0:32:23 > 0:32:27But for Nick Jenkins, that was only the start of the interrogation.
0:32:27 > 0:32:30So, what I want to understand is are these guys going wild for it?
0:32:30 > 0:32:34So where do you reckon those 21,000 came from? Right, say that again.
0:32:34 > 0:32:37SPEECH FADES OUT SHE SIGHS
0:32:37 > 0:32:39Until Peter Jones just couldn't take any more.
0:32:39 > 0:32:42- Say that again. - PETER SNORES
0:32:42 > 0:32:44Thank you, Peter. So, in short...
0:32:44 > 0:32:48- In short?!- Would you hurry up?! - It's too late to say in short!
0:32:48 > 0:32:52For God's sake, he summarises that to say, "In short..."
0:32:52 > 0:32:54- LAUGHTER - Right...
0:32:56 > 0:33:01But back to business. Was Calum a hot enough investment opportunity?
0:33:01 > 0:33:05Time to get the views of his 1,500 monthly users.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08Can I just ask what's happened to the picture you've posted of us?
0:33:08 > 0:33:11So far, four people have voted yes.
0:33:11 > 0:33:13So I guess it's a yes.
0:33:14 > 0:33:18- They are on your team, though, so it doesn't count, does it?- Absolutely.
0:33:18 > 0:33:21Four of Calum's colleagues may agree that investment makes
0:33:21 > 0:33:25sense, but in the Den, it is the decisions of five
0:33:25 > 0:33:28multimillionaire Dragons that really count.
0:33:28 > 0:33:31There are gazillions of people out there doing exactly the same thing,
0:33:31 > 0:33:33thinking of an app and trying to make it go viral.
0:33:33 > 0:33:36And there's only room at the top for a very, very small number.
0:33:36 > 0:33:40Unfortunately, I think it is too big a risk. I can't invest, I'm out.
0:33:40 > 0:33:42- Good luck, but I'm out.- I'm out.
0:33:42 > 0:33:43I'm out.
0:33:43 > 0:33:47I'm not that big a gambler and there is not enough evidence
0:33:47 > 0:33:50right now that this is going to be the one.
0:33:50 > 0:33:54- I'm afraid I won't be investing, so I'm out.- Thank you very much.
0:33:55 > 0:33:57Still to come on tonight's show...
0:34:01 > 0:34:04..a sugar rush for Sarah Willingham...
0:34:04 > 0:34:05Mm!
0:34:05 > 0:34:07Really good brownies.
0:34:09 > 0:34:12..and an entrepreneur lost for words.
0:34:12 > 0:34:14What's worth 2 million today?
0:34:16 > 0:34:19The... Um...
0:34:19 > 0:34:20Look, you know, the...
0:34:20 > 0:34:22I think...that...
0:34:28 > 0:34:31Next into the Den is Dubliner Robbie Ward.
0:34:33 > 0:34:36I have literally travelled the world with this business.
0:34:36 > 0:34:37I've been in five continents.
0:34:38 > 0:34:41I've put some serious air miles in. I've had sleepless nights.
0:34:41 > 0:34:46I'm ready now to scale this up to international proportions.
0:34:46 > 0:34:50But can he make it yet another investment by pulling
0:34:50 > 0:34:52in a deal with the Dragons?
0:34:56 > 0:34:57Hello.
0:34:57 > 0:35:04My name is Robbie Ward, founder and CEO of Drink Command Limited.
0:35:04 > 0:35:08We are seeking an investment of £200,000 for 10% equity.
0:35:10 > 0:35:14Drink Command have created a self-serve draft beer system
0:35:14 > 0:35:16that we sell to bars, stadiums,
0:35:16 > 0:35:19festivals and drink companies.
0:35:19 > 0:35:22We've all been at an event where we've had to queue for a long time
0:35:22 > 0:35:25to buy a drink. But with our system,
0:35:25 > 0:35:29customers experience pulling their own pints, avoiding the queues
0:35:29 > 0:35:33and enjoying fresh, cold drinks at their own pace.
0:35:33 > 0:35:34Here's how it works.
0:35:35 > 0:35:40A customer will purchase credit at the venue onto a key fob or a
0:35:40 > 0:35:44festival wristband or a stadium season-ticket card or a mobile app.
0:35:44 > 0:35:46They will then use any of the venue's
0:35:46 > 0:35:48self-pour taps to choose a beer...
0:35:51 > 0:35:55..while our system keeps track of exactly how much has been poured
0:35:55 > 0:35:58and how much customer credit is remaining.
0:35:58 > 0:36:01Outlets with Drink Command systems installed typically see
0:36:01 > 0:36:05a quick return on investment while creating something unique
0:36:05 > 0:36:08in the venue that drives repeat business.
0:36:08 > 0:36:14We have sales so far of 370,000 into five contents.
0:36:14 > 0:36:18And we have a strong sales pipeline here in the UK with purchase intent
0:36:18 > 0:36:21from well-known brands including Yo! Sushi,
0:36:21 > 0:36:26Glastonbury and some top tier football and rugby stadiums.
0:36:26 > 0:36:28Dragons, thank you so much for listening.
0:36:28 > 0:36:29I look forward to your questions.
0:36:29 > 0:36:31But first, I have some key fobs
0:36:31 > 0:36:34and would like to ask you to try pouring your own beers.
0:36:34 > 0:36:36I'm up. I've pulled a few pints in my life.
0:36:36 > 0:36:38- ROBBIE LAUGHS - No problem. Here you go.
0:36:38 > 0:36:39Here's one for you.
0:36:39 > 0:36:43A device that allows beer drinkers to beat the queues is
0:36:43 > 0:36:45the offering from Robbie Ward.
0:36:45 > 0:36:46Now just let it settle.
0:36:46 > 0:36:49It will settle into a perfect pint.
0:36:49 > 0:36:51He is seeking £200,000
0:36:51 > 0:36:56in exchange for a 10% share in his self-pour pump business.
0:36:56 > 0:36:57Wait, just look.
0:36:59 > 0:37:02- Bloody hell...- There's an eerie silence, isn't there?
0:37:02 > 0:37:04Can we get a free tea break?
0:37:04 > 0:37:07I think that is pretty much settled there.
0:37:07 > 0:37:11But the long wait for a perfect pint has left Deborah Meaden
0:37:11 > 0:37:13feeling a little flat.
0:37:14 > 0:37:17Did that go how you expected it to go?
0:37:17 > 0:37:20The particular beer that we are pouring today is maybe
0:37:20 > 0:37:21one of the more challenging beers.
0:37:21 > 0:37:24I've got to say, that wasn't the fastest
0:37:24 > 0:37:27and the best pour that I've seen.
0:37:27 > 0:37:30We live and die by the quality of the pour, OK?
0:37:30 > 0:37:35And we've got to almost 3 million individual pours.
0:37:35 > 0:37:37If our systems poured bad beer,
0:37:37 > 0:37:39there is no way we would have got past 3,000.
0:37:39 > 0:37:42How many actual machines of these have you got out and about?
0:37:42 > 0:37:45We've had 75 individual sales.
0:37:45 > 0:37:49So right now, we are holding an order from Bristol Sport,
0:37:49 > 0:37:51who are redeveloping
0:37:51 > 0:37:53the Bristol City and Bristol Rugby stadium,
0:37:53 > 0:37:56and self-pour is built into that stadium from the start.
0:37:56 > 0:38:00We've done a trial with Man United in Old Trafford,
0:38:00 > 0:38:02and they loved it.
0:38:02 > 0:38:03But we are expecting to go
0:38:03 > 0:38:09into possibly four stadiums this year, you know, as an initial burst.
0:38:11 > 0:38:15The market in half-time refreshments for sports fans could offer
0:38:15 > 0:38:19an investor a winning return.
0:38:19 > 0:38:23Sarah Willingham, a major player in the food and drink industry,
0:38:23 > 0:38:26wants to find out more about Robbie's cashless payment system.
0:38:29 > 0:38:31Why did you go down the fob route?
0:38:31 > 0:38:34Why did you not put a credit card machine in them?
0:38:34 > 0:38:38You can't put cash into the machine because then it is a vending
0:38:38 > 0:38:41machine, and beer vending machines are not legal.
0:38:43 > 0:38:45I really don't like the principle of the credit
0:38:45 > 0:38:51because I think it is a way of the bars making money from people.
0:38:51 > 0:38:52Look, this... Our company...
0:38:52 > 0:38:55This system is not about stealing money from customers, OK?
0:38:55 > 0:38:59This is a tool to allow bars to be more efficient, OK?
0:39:01 > 0:39:02So I go on...
0:39:02 > 0:39:06I go on with my fob and I've got £1.50 credit,
0:39:06 > 0:39:08which I can't buy a beer for.
0:39:08 > 0:39:10Can I go back and get a refund?
0:39:10 > 0:39:12If the operator has set it up
0:39:12 > 0:39:15so you can get refunds, then absolutely, yes.
0:39:15 > 0:39:17And if he hasn't? Then what happens?
0:39:17 > 0:39:20- Well, then, you can top up with the balance.- Oh, I see.
0:39:20 > 0:39:22- But let's assume I'm there for one night.- Yes.
0:39:22 > 0:39:24- I'm not going to go back there. - It's a fair point,
0:39:24 > 0:39:27but you can see how much customer credit has been loaded onto
0:39:27 > 0:39:30all of our systems worldwide, and we can see how that is being used.
0:39:30 > 0:39:34And in fact, what we find is that they might only go back six months
0:39:34 > 0:39:36later to that bar thinking,
0:39:36 > 0:39:39"Well, actually, I still have credit and I'm going to go back."
0:39:39 > 0:39:41We actually do see that happening on a daily basis.
0:39:44 > 0:39:50I don't like when consumers' cash sits on a business' balance sheet.
0:39:50 > 0:39:52And at some point, they move it into their cash
0:39:52 > 0:39:55because the consumers never claimed it.
0:39:55 > 0:39:58I just think there's something fundamentally wrong with that
0:39:58 > 0:39:59for the consumer.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03So I wish you all the best with it,
0:40:03 > 0:40:05but I am afraid it is not an investment or me.
0:40:05 > 0:40:07So I'm out.
0:40:10 > 0:40:12A setback for Robbie
0:40:12 > 0:40:16as the Dragon with form in this industry declines the deal.
0:40:17 > 0:40:19And further trouble could be brewing
0:40:19 > 0:40:23as Peter Jones warms to one of his favourite themes.
0:40:25 > 0:40:29- Robbie.- Yes.- You've come in with a valuation here of £2 million.- Mm-hm.
0:40:29 > 0:40:33And I'm sure that you said you've had £370,000 worth of sales.
0:40:33 > 0:40:34That's correct.
0:40:34 > 0:40:37What's the profit been?
0:40:37 > 0:40:40Our profit has been 19,000, net profit.
0:40:40 > 0:40:42So far.
0:40:42 > 0:40:45There's a couple of other things I need to tell you now.
0:40:45 > 0:40:47Yeah, please, cos this will be good,
0:40:47 > 0:40:49cos we've got a business that made £19,000
0:40:49 > 0:40:51that you're valuing at 2 million.
0:40:52 > 0:40:55First thing, we have our first international distribution
0:40:55 > 0:40:58agreement in place for Australia.
0:40:58 > 0:41:01There is a 50,000 licence fee
0:41:01 > 0:41:05and a minimum of 1.8 million worth of sales over three years.
0:41:07 > 0:41:10So what do you make out of that contract?
0:41:10 > 0:41:13Our profit margin on that 1.8 million is 55%.
0:41:13 > 0:41:15You know, we have been entrepreneurial
0:41:15 > 0:41:18and sold the system in concept stage to...
0:41:18 > 0:41:19You've sold 75 units.
0:41:23 > 0:41:27While we have travelled the world selling those 75 units,
0:41:27 > 0:41:30we have uncovered some incredible opportunities along the way.
0:41:30 > 0:41:32What, have you found gold?
0:41:32 > 0:41:36We have... We have... First of all, that's our sales pipeline.
0:41:36 > 0:41:39- We have some...- No, no, that's a pipeline. That's not...
0:41:39 > 0:41:41Let's live in the now, today.
0:41:41 > 0:41:43What's worth 2 million today?
0:41:45 > 0:41:47The... Um...
0:41:47 > 0:41:48Look, you know, the...
0:41:48 > 0:41:50I think...that...
0:41:50 > 0:41:54OK, you know, to look at today, we need to look at today's sales
0:41:54 > 0:41:56- and what we have at the moment, all right?- Yeah.
0:41:56 > 0:42:00So right now, we've got six sales that we're literally
0:42:00 > 0:42:01installing as we speak, OK?
0:42:01 > 0:42:04You know, we have strong...
0:42:04 > 0:42:06Robbie, is the answer, "I can't justify 2 million"?
0:42:06 > 0:42:08Cos you're floundering.
0:42:10 > 0:42:13Is it not true to say, "Do you know what?
0:42:13 > 0:42:15"I don't think it is worth 2 million,
0:42:15 > 0:42:18"but I thought I'd wing it."
0:42:18 > 0:42:20No, I don't feel like I'm winging it...
0:42:20 > 0:42:23Robbie, I'll tell you where I am. I think you know where I am.
0:42:23 > 0:42:26I congratulate you on creating a product and a business,
0:42:26 > 0:42:31but it is not investable at anything like the money
0:42:31 > 0:42:34and the value that you are suggesting it is worth today.
0:42:34 > 0:42:36So, for that reason, I'm out.
0:42:39 > 0:42:42Robbie loses his second Dragon,
0:42:42 > 0:42:48as Peter Jones fails to buy into his £2 million company valuation.
0:42:48 > 0:42:51And Touker Suleyman has also made up his mind.
0:42:53 > 0:42:54I don't go to pubs.
0:42:55 > 0:42:59I believe that, yes, you may have a business for this at events.
0:43:00 > 0:43:05But I think you will struggle to put them into local pubs
0:43:05 > 0:43:07and to reduce the amount of staff.
0:43:08 > 0:43:10So, for that reason, I am out.
0:43:13 > 0:43:17Can I ask what the funds are going to be used for?
0:43:17 > 0:43:19Um...
0:43:19 > 0:43:21You know, in a nutshell, market development.
0:43:21 > 0:43:24When our potential customers see it, they genuinely do love it.
0:43:24 > 0:43:26And it is a real kind of hands-on product.
0:43:26 > 0:43:27We need to get it out there in front of them.
0:43:27 > 0:43:30You could do this without my investment, couldn't you?
0:43:30 > 0:43:32I think without the money, we'd be fine. But you know what?
0:43:32 > 0:43:34We have...
0:43:34 > 0:43:37Nick, we've worked way too hard, you know, put too much into this
0:43:37 > 0:43:41so far to be just fine, OK? This business... You know,
0:43:41 > 0:43:45we have an opportunity now to cement ourselves as the global leader.
0:43:45 > 0:43:48Right, I'll tell you where I am.
0:43:48 > 0:43:52I struggle to see how, if there's the right demand for it,
0:43:52 > 0:43:55that you really need the money to make this happen.
0:43:55 > 0:43:58So I'm afraid I can't invest. I'm out.
0:44:03 > 0:44:06Nick Jenkins has walked away from the deal,
0:44:06 > 0:44:09unconvinced that Robbie really needs his cash.
0:44:10 > 0:44:14With only Deborah Meaden yet to show her hand,
0:44:14 > 0:44:17Robbie is drinking at the last chance saloon.
0:44:20 > 0:44:23Robbie, I don't share the problem with the fob,
0:44:23 > 0:44:26to be perfectly honest, because the operator can recognise
0:44:26 > 0:44:28that as an issue and say, "There's your change."
0:44:28 > 0:44:30- Exactly.- "Put the key back in, there's your change."
0:44:30 > 0:44:32So I like all of that.
0:44:34 > 0:44:38I like the sports market. I think you're going to make a go of this.
0:44:38 > 0:44:40I think you are going to do well.
0:44:40 > 0:44:43But I think the single biggest issue does get down to valuation.
0:44:46 > 0:44:48I think the offer that I would have to make you at a value
0:44:48 > 0:44:52that I thought it was worth, you are not going to do,
0:44:52 > 0:44:54and I'm not going to waste your time and my time doing that.
0:44:54 > 0:44:56- That's true. - So I won't be investing.
0:44:56 > 0:44:59I'm sorry, Robbie, but I'm...I'm out.
0:45:01 > 0:45:05OK. Are we done? Thank you so much. All right. Thank you.
0:45:05 > 0:45:09So it's no deal and Robbie must leave the Den empty-handed.
0:45:12 > 0:45:16But at least this mild-mannered entrepreneur's failure to secure
0:45:16 > 0:45:20an investment doesn't appear to have left him bitter.
0:45:20 > 0:45:23I thought at one point, from the way Deborah was talking,
0:45:23 > 0:45:25I was heading towards an offer.
0:45:25 > 0:45:27But the valuation killed us.
0:45:27 > 0:45:30Perhaps we should've gone in at a lower valuation, but we will
0:45:30 > 0:45:34go on to do great things and blow that valuation out of the water.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44Onto our final pitch, delivered by two entrepreneurs
0:45:44 > 0:45:47with a business guaranteed to keep Britain's chocoholics,
0:45:47 > 0:45:50if not necessarily its dentists, smiling.
0:45:53 > 0:45:56We both love chocolate. We are obsessed by it.
0:45:56 > 0:45:59- We are basically just force-feeding each other constantly.- Yeah.
0:46:01 > 0:46:04- WHISPERS:- It could be a big change. It could be no change.- It could be.
0:46:04 > 0:46:08- We could be laughed out of there. - HE LAUGHS
0:46:13 > 0:46:15Is it chalk and cheese? Bert and Ernie or something like that?
0:46:15 > 0:46:18- I think that's probably what we are like as a partnership.- Yeah.
0:46:18 > 0:46:22- Yeah, we complement each other quite well, I'd say.- And contrast.- Yeah.
0:46:22 > 0:46:23Mm, of course.
0:46:38 > 0:46:41Hello, Dragons. My name is Morag and this is Paz.
0:46:41 > 0:46:43We are the founders of Bad Brownie.
0:46:43 > 0:46:47We make and sell a range of gourmet flavoured chocolate brownies.
0:46:47 > 0:46:52We are here today to ask you for an investment of £60,000 in return
0:46:52 > 0:46:54for 15% of our company.
0:46:54 > 0:46:57When we started just over a year and a half ago,
0:46:57 > 0:47:02we were baking out of a tiny kitchen and the oven was
0:47:02 > 0:47:05so basic it had one shelf that actually worked.
0:47:05 > 0:47:07We were baking a couple of hundred brownies a week,
0:47:07 > 0:47:10and we took them in my battered old Nissan Micra
0:47:10 > 0:47:12to the markets and sold them.
0:47:12 > 0:47:16Today, we have our own production units in South East London,
0:47:16 > 0:47:19which we designed and had built to our specifications.
0:47:19 > 0:47:24We bake between 2,000 and 5,000 brownies a week nowadays.
0:47:24 > 0:47:26And we sell these direct to consumers at a number
0:47:26 > 0:47:30of high-end food markets around London.
0:47:30 > 0:47:31Morag and I...
0:47:31 > 0:47:33are complete foodies.
0:47:33 > 0:47:36We've done over 100 flavours since we started.
0:47:36 > 0:47:41Some of them include our best-selling salted caramel.
0:47:41 > 0:47:45We also have a bacon and maple syrup brownie.
0:47:45 > 0:47:47It does work, promise you.
0:47:47 > 0:47:52Our turnover to date is in excess of 300,000.
0:47:52 > 0:47:55With investment in the next 12 months,
0:47:55 > 0:47:58we project to turnover in excess of 800,000.
0:47:58 > 0:48:02We would use your investment, together with our own capital,
0:48:02 > 0:48:05to open our first shop in Central London.
0:48:05 > 0:48:09Paz mentioned that we are foodies, but we are also massive feeders.
0:48:09 > 0:48:11And we'd like to start on that journey with you by offering
0:48:11 > 0:48:14you some samples of our brownies.
0:48:16 > 0:48:21Sweet treats are the offering from Paz Sarmah and Morag Ekanger,
0:48:21 > 0:48:24who are seeking £60,000
0:48:24 > 0:48:28in return for a 15% share in their brownie business.
0:48:29 > 0:48:30'Mm!'
0:48:30 > 0:48:32Really good brownies!
0:48:32 > 0:48:35Paz and Morag's samples have given
0:48:35 > 0:48:38serial restaurateur Sarah Willingham
0:48:38 > 0:48:40an appetite to find out more.
0:48:43 > 0:48:45What makes them so good?
0:48:45 > 0:48:46They're bad!
0:48:46 > 0:48:48Yeah, well, what makes them taste so good?
0:48:48 > 0:48:51We don't hold back on anything. Anything at all.
0:48:51 > 0:48:55So they are absolutely packed full of really good dark chocolate,
0:48:55 > 0:48:58loads of butter and loads of any ingredient that makes
0:48:58 > 0:49:00the flavours really, really stand out.
0:49:00 > 0:49:03It's interesting that you are talking
0:49:03 > 0:49:04about wanting to open a shop.
0:49:04 > 0:49:07Just sort of paint a picture of this store.
0:49:07 > 0:49:09Cos this is where you want to spend the money.
0:49:09 > 0:49:11OK, so it would be in Central London,
0:49:11 > 0:49:13sort of Soho, Covent Garden sort of an area,
0:49:13 > 0:49:18where there are other stores that sell sort of a single product.
0:49:18 > 0:49:21Who is the creative chef here?
0:49:21 > 0:49:25We have hired a creative chef. We no longer bake the brownies any more.
0:49:25 > 0:49:29- OK, so you guys just run the business.- Most recently, yes.
0:49:29 > 0:49:32- And have you taken a salary out of this?- We take 15,000 each.- Each.
0:49:32 > 0:49:34At the moment, yeah.
0:49:34 > 0:49:37- Are you partners?- No. - You're not, OK. So 15,000 each.
0:49:37 > 0:49:40- You can live off that, can you?- Yes.
0:49:40 > 0:49:42We each have very supportive partners, but, yes, we do.
0:49:42 > 0:49:45And I must say, I've never eaten brownies like this.
0:49:47 > 0:49:49There is a big tick there, ten out of ten.
0:49:50 > 0:49:54But your retail model at the moment is not going to work.
0:49:54 > 0:49:55Mm-hm.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58But you're going to need a lot more than 60,000.
0:49:58 > 0:49:59A lot more.
0:50:01 > 0:50:04That's what...worries me.
0:50:04 > 0:50:08You'll open a shop, it'll start making losses till it makes a profit
0:50:08 > 0:50:10and then you'll want more money. You know?
0:50:12 > 0:50:15So... I don't know, I'll have to think about this.
0:50:19 > 0:50:21Brownie points for their product,
0:50:21 > 0:50:25but Paz and Morag's plans to set up shop in one of London's
0:50:25 > 0:50:30priciest postcodes is fast becoming a sticking point in the Den.
0:50:34 > 0:50:37I'd be amazed if you got a site in Soho or Covent Garden without
0:50:37 > 0:50:38paying a significant premium for it.
0:50:38 > 0:50:43So the £60,000 is in addition to our own capital that we'll have
0:50:43 > 0:50:47as well, so we would be putting some of our own money into it, of course.
0:50:48 > 0:50:52- For this site, rent... - Yeah.- ..staff costs...
0:50:52 > 0:50:55That is a lot of brownies you're going to have to sell.
0:50:55 > 0:50:59- So how many are you planning on selling?- 20,000 turnover per month.
0:50:59 > 0:51:02And what is your gross profit on that?
0:51:02 > 0:51:04It runs at approximately 50%.
0:51:06 > 0:51:08Why is this so expensive to make?
0:51:09 > 0:51:14The ingredient cost itself is approximately 42p per £3.50 brownie.
0:51:14 > 0:51:17OK. And then what else goes into that?
0:51:17 > 0:51:21Packaging, we allow for approximately 10p per brownie.
0:51:21 > 0:51:24- What would the labour element of this be?- WHISPERS:- So, 1,500...
0:51:27 > 0:51:295,000 x 4, 20.
0:51:29 > 0:51:32Let's say 15,000 brownies. 40p.
0:51:32 > 0:51:34So 40p. So you've got ingredients,
0:51:34 > 0:51:37you've got packaging and you've got labour.
0:51:37 > 0:51:41That adds up to 92p out of £3.50.
0:51:41 > 0:51:44And you were saying before your gross margin is 50%,
0:51:44 > 0:51:46so that is £1.70.
0:51:48 > 0:51:51You are about to torpedo what is a lovely business
0:51:51 > 0:51:54because you are saying that your gross margin is...
0:51:54 > 0:51:55your gross margin is horrendous!
0:51:58 > 0:52:03Paz and Morag are in danger of sinking as Nick Jenkins blows
0:52:03 > 0:52:06a hole in their numbers.
0:52:06 > 0:52:11Sarah Willingham, the Dragon with high street eatery expertise,
0:52:11 > 0:52:12has heard enough.
0:52:14 > 0:52:19- I mean, I've opened so many Central London sites.- Yes.
0:52:19 > 0:52:26But with costs, you will not make any money on five grand a week,
0:52:26 > 0:52:29net turnover. It's impossible.
0:52:31 > 0:52:33The economics of it don't work.
0:52:34 > 0:52:36I...I can't invest and I'm afraid I'm out.
0:52:36 > 0:52:38- OK, thank you.- Thank you, Sarah.
0:52:40 > 0:52:44The thought of opening a shop is by far the wrong thing to even
0:52:44 > 0:52:48consider doing, but you can continue to make it work in the markets
0:52:48 > 0:52:52and you can continue to make it work by potentially renting space
0:52:52 > 0:52:55within other key delicatessens.
0:52:55 > 0:52:58But it's not an investment where I think I could even make
0:52:58 > 0:53:00a small return, let alone a sizeable one,
0:53:00 > 0:53:02so I won't be investing and I'm out.
0:53:05 > 0:53:10Paz and Morag's plans to branch into retail are proving a tough sell,
0:53:10 > 0:53:13as Peter Jones joins Sarah Willingham
0:53:13 > 0:53:16in walking away from the deal.
0:53:16 > 0:53:19Are Deborah Meaden or Nick Jenkins prepared
0:53:19 > 0:53:22to turn their vision into a reality?
0:53:25 > 0:53:29Guys, I actually... I want to be able to eat those fudge brownies,
0:53:29 > 0:53:31so I am desperate for you to succeed.
0:53:31 > 0:53:35Unfortunately, I do think retail is the wrong route to go down.
0:53:37 > 0:53:40They're lovely, but as an investment, I don't get it.
0:53:40 > 0:53:42So I'm afraid I'm out.
0:53:44 > 0:53:48I think it will be very difficult to turn this into a retail concept.
0:53:48 > 0:53:51By the time you have added on the rent, the manager's cost
0:53:51 > 0:53:56and the staff, that is an incredibly difficult business to be in.
0:53:56 > 0:53:59And so... I look forward to eating more of it,
0:53:59 > 0:54:01but I'm...I'm afraid I can't invest. I'm out.
0:54:05 > 0:54:07Four Dragons are now out.
0:54:08 > 0:54:14With over 40 years retail experience to his name, is Touker Suleyman
0:54:14 > 0:54:18poised to pull down the shutters on Paz and Morag's pitch?
0:54:21 > 0:54:24The real question for me is...
0:54:24 > 0:54:26How much money are you guys going to put in?
0:54:27 > 0:54:30- To the retail?- Yep. - Approximately 25,000.
0:54:30 > 0:54:32And how much cash have you got in the business?
0:54:32 > 0:54:35- You mean waiting in the bank account or...?- Yeah.
0:54:35 > 0:54:38- It's about 35 at the moment. - You've got 35.
0:54:38 > 0:54:40We have assets of about 40...
0:54:40 > 0:54:43Sorry, 25,000 at the moment as well.
0:54:43 > 0:54:44How much debt have you got?
0:54:44 > 0:54:46- None.- None.
0:54:46 > 0:54:52I can see this in 1,000-square-foot shop where you've got 50 flavours
0:54:52 > 0:54:55sitting there and you've got a kitchen in the back making them
0:54:55 > 0:54:58and people come to you... Right?
0:54:58 > 0:55:02..because you are the brownie in London.
0:55:03 > 0:55:06So do I want to have that journey with you?
0:55:11 > 0:55:13I'm going to make you an offer.
0:55:19 > 0:55:22I'll give you all the money, but I want 35% of the business.
0:55:23 > 0:55:24- WHISPERS:- OK.
0:55:25 > 0:55:28- Would you mind if we have a quick chat?- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:55:30 > 0:55:33A surprising development as Touker Suleyman
0:55:33 > 0:55:36goes against the perceived wisdom of the Den.
0:55:38 > 0:55:41What do we do now? 35%...
0:55:41 > 0:55:43Paz, that's just so much...
0:55:43 > 0:55:46He's prepared to bankroll Paz and Morag's assault
0:55:46 > 0:55:50on the high street, but he wants 20% more equity
0:55:50 > 0:55:53than the pair were originally looking to give away.
0:55:55 > 0:55:57Thank you so much for your offer.
0:55:57 > 0:55:58Um...
0:55:58 > 0:56:02It is much higher a percentage than we had wanted to give.
0:56:02 > 0:56:05And, goodness, I almost don't have the nerve to ask,
0:56:05 > 0:56:10but is there any opportunity for you to reduce that to 30%?
0:56:10 > 0:56:14It was the highest that we are prepared to give away.
0:56:20 > 0:56:24OK, guys, I don't want to take away your baby. You know?
0:56:27 > 0:56:32- I'll give you Touker time and I'll go to 30%.- Amazing!
0:56:32 > 0:56:34Thank you. Thank you.
0:56:35 > 0:56:39- Great.- Thank you so much. - Well done, guys. Congratulations.
0:56:39 > 0:56:41- We'll do something with this. - Great.- Lovely.- Thank you.
0:56:41 > 0:56:43- Looking forward to it.- Great. - Thank you so much.
0:56:43 > 0:56:47Sticking to their guns over their high street shop concept
0:56:47 > 0:56:50has paid off for Morag and Paz.
0:56:50 > 0:56:56- WHISPERS:- Did that just happen?- Yes! - So surreal. So surreal.
0:56:56 > 0:56:58They leave the Den with the only Dragon
0:56:58 > 0:57:00persuaded to share their vision
0:57:00 > 0:57:04and a crucial £60,000 of his cash.
0:57:05 > 0:57:08I wasn't expecting an offer from him at all.
0:57:08 > 0:57:10Touker time, isn't that amazing?
0:57:10 > 0:57:12Touker time! That's amazing.
0:57:12 > 0:57:13So excited.
0:57:18 > 0:57:19Amazing.
0:57:24 > 0:57:27Well, we have been witness to an investment bonanza in the Den,
0:57:27 > 0:57:31with Dragons and entrepreneurs shaking hands
0:57:31 > 0:57:35on £190,000 and with three businesses now having
0:57:35 > 0:57:38the backing of a multimillionaire investor.
0:57:38 > 0:57:41Congratulations to them all. Job well done.
0:57:41 > 0:57:45But don't forget, the really hard work starts now.
0:57:47 > 0:57:49Yes!
0:57:49 > 0:57:50Coming up next time...
0:57:50 > 0:57:52Guys, exceptional product.
0:57:52 > 0:57:55I'm actually quite shocked by how good it is.
0:57:55 > 0:57:57Don't give me the salesman talk now.
0:57:57 > 0:58:00If the product has sold out,
0:58:00 > 0:58:03would they have come back to you, yes or no?
0:58:03 > 0:58:05- If it had sold out... - Yes or no!- Yes.
0:58:05 > 0:58:08You are coming in here trying to value this business at £1 million.
0:58:08 > 0:58:10I find that insulting.
0:58:10 > 0:58:13You explained it. You explained why your margin was going up,
0:58:13 > 0:58:14and your margin is not going up.
0:58:14 > 0:58:17That is so blinking frustrating.
0:58:17 > 0:58:22It is going to be wasted breath for anybody to have dialogue with you.
0:58:22 > 0:58:26You have been stood here for a while now and I still don't get it.
0:58:26 > 0:58:28- Have I come across that badly? - Well, you've come across
0:58:28 > 0:58:31like you don't know what you're talking about.