0:00:02 > 0:00:04Tonight on Dragons' Den...
0:00:08 > 0:00:09Rachel and Paula, can we be...?
0:00:09 > 0:00:13- Oh!- Can we start being a bit more serious about this?
0:00:13 > 0:00:15I don't want this to go wrong for you.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18- OK.- But you need to come up with something a lot stronger than that.
0:00:18 > 0:00:22You have solved a problem that doesn't exist.
0:00:22 > 0:00:25I'm going to say it how it is - I'm not impressed.
0:00:25 > 0:00:27You've put your whole life behind this?
0:00:27 > 0:00:29Yeah.
0:00:29 > 0:00:31I'm still struggling to understand what I'm investing in.
0:00:31 > 0:00:34You've got to make this more snappy.
0:00:34 > 0:00:36- I'm going to make you an offer. - You might need two Dragons for this.
0:00:36 > 0:00:38I can't not make you an offer.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15Welcome to Dragons' Den,
0:01:15 > 0:01:18where a fresh batch of nervous entrepreneurs
0:01:18 > 0:01:22are putting the finishing touches to what they hope will be
0:01:22 > 0:01:24the elevator pitch of a lifetime.
0:01:24 > 0:01:26HE HUMS
0:01:29 > 0:01:32First up tonight is an expat who's travelled thousands of miles
0:01:32 > 0:01:35from his adopted home, Australia,
0:01:35 > 0:01:38for the chance to tap the Dragons for investment.
0:01:39 > 0:01:43Life's journey has brought me to this moment.
0:01:43 > 0:01:46I'll go in there, I'll put my best foot forward.
0:01:46 > 0:01:47I know I've got something good.
0:01:47 > 0:01:53I'm just going to see what the Den, the universe, presents to me.
0:01:53 > 0:01:55It's time to tame some Dragons.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01Stuart's wife Emily has shared not just the flight from down under
0:02:01 > 0:02:04but the long journey the invention has been on, too.
0:02:04 > 0:02:06- Come on, Stu.- Can't wait.- Yeah.
0:02:06 > 0:02:11She'll be watching in our reaction room with family friend, Giles.
0:02:11 > 0:02:14Ever since I met Stu, he's always had ideas.
0:02:14 > 0:02:16Now it's like he's finally found...
0:02:16 > 0:02:18This is it, this is the one!
0:02:18 > 0:02:22And now to get the opportunity to be here is just brilliant.
0:02:22 > 0:02:24It could be a complete life-changer.
0:02:35 > 0:02:37Hello, Dragons.
0:02:37 > 0:02:38My name is Stuart Mason.
0:02:38 > 0:02:41I'm the inventor of SpaTap.
0:02:41 > 0:02:44I'm here today with the opportunity of a £65,000 investment
0:02:44 > 0:02:46for a 20% equity share.
0:02:46 > 0:02:50The world is in the grip of a water crisis,
0:02:50 > 0:02:54and SpaTap is a water-saving, eco-friendly,
0:02:54 > 0:02:59mobile tap and shower system that fits in your pocket.
0:03:00 > 0:03:05So it's made from silicone, and it instantly attaches to any bottle,
0:03:05 > 0:03:09creating a flow-controllable tap or shower that can dispense water
0:03:09 > 0:03:12in different ways. I'll just quickly demonstrate.
0:03:12 > 0:03:16So if you wanted a small amount of water, say for a hand wash,
0:03:16 > 0:03:18you can give it a gentle squeeze.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21You get a little hand wash.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25If you wanted a bit more water, you can pull the bung out...
0:03:25 > 0:03:27and you get enough water for, say, a shower.
0:03:27 > 0:03:31This one-litre bottle will dispense water over eight minutes
0:03:31 > 0:03:34and 30 seconds, which is extreme water-saving.
0:03:34 > 0:03:38So, in 18 months of trading, we have a turnover of £29,000.
0:03:38 > 0:03:42We have sold over 4,500 units.
0:03:42 > 0:03:45The UK retail price is £14.95.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49Our wholesale is between £4.50 and £8.50 depending on volume.
0:03:49 > 0:03:51Our landed cost is £3.
0:03:51 > 0:03:57In Europe, 33 million people go camping, and in the US,
0:03:57 > 0:04:0045 million people per quarter go camping.
0:04:00 > 0:04:04SpaTap has multiple applications within multiple markets,
0:04:04 > 0:04:08including the huge humanitarian market,
0:04:08 > 0:04:12and we recently won first prize in Standard Bank's Water For Africa
0:04:12 > 0:04:17competition, beating 470 other entrants from around the world
0:04:17 > 0:04:19and winning 10,000 US dollars.
0:04:20 > 0:04:22So, thank you, that is my pitch.
0:04:22 > 0:04:26Anyone is welcome to come up and have a closer look.
0:04:26 > 0:04:27There we go.
0:04:27 > 0:04:28Good work.
0:04:30 > 0:04:34A pitch with green credentials from inventor Stuart Mason.
0:04:34 > 0:04:40He is hoping to secure £65,000 in exchange for 20% of his company.
0:04:40 > 0:04:41Just give it the gentlest of squeezes.
0:04:41 > 0:04:45That's it. And that gives you between 15-20ml.
0:04:45 > 0:04:49Deborah Meaden made her first millions in British holiday parks...
0:04:49 > 0:04:52As a hand-washing thing, that actually does work.
0:04:52 > 0:04:54So literally just a...
0:04:54 > 0:04:56- Oh.- Well, you squeeze it with the very hand you...
0:04:56 > 0:04:59- Oh, I see, with the hand you... Yeah.- That's it.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03..and now she is keen to ascertain whether there's a market
0:05:03 > 0:05:06for this product in her former sector.
0:05:08 > 0:05:11So, in the UK, how big is the camping market?
0:05:11 > 0:05:17Well, 5.4 million families will just go in tents.
0:05:17 > 0:05:19And what do they currently do for water?
0:05:19 > 0:05:20Depends. If you go to...
0:05:20 > 0:05:21People go wild camping.
0:05:21 > 0:05:23That means they'll take their own water in.
0:05:23 > 0:05:26But of the market, how many go wild camping and how many go on to
0:05:26 > 0:05:28camping sites that have got plenty of water access?
0:05:28 > 0:05:31Yeah, well, on camping sites, you know, probably...
0:05:33 > 0:05:37Maybe 60% will go to campsites where there is water.
0:05:37 > 0:05:40But if there is a shower block,
0:05:40 > 0:05:43if you want to wash your hands or just clean the food,
0:05:43 > 0:05:45you can take it over there, or you can have one of these hanging up
0:05:45 > 0:05:47and you can have a quick rinse off.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50Yeah, but to be fair, a lot of them have water and electrics close by
0:05:50 > 0:05:52anyway, don't they? So...
0:05:52 > 0:05:55I'm just trying to understand the driver behind why
0:05:55 > 0:05:59you would buy this in the camping fraternity when there is actually
0:05:59 > 0:06:01quite a lot of access to water on most sites,
0:06:01 > 0:06:03unless they're completely wild.
0:06:06 > 0:06:08But I was hoping you might have an answer.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12- Well...- Go humanitarian, Stu.
0:06:13 > 0:06:17I've just mentioned the camping market, but there's sports,
0:06:17 > 0:06:19there's handymen...
0:06:19 > 0:06:22- Humanitarian.- You know...
0:06:22 > 0:06:23In what circumstance...?
0:06:23 > 0:06:25I mean, you can't just list a group of people.
0:06:25 > 0:06:30In what circumstances and for what reason would they be using this?
0:06:30 > 0:06:33Well, I'll give you a perfect example of dog...
0:06:33 > 0:06:35People who are walking their dog.
0:06:35 > 0:06:37Yeah, but go humanitarian!
0:06:37 > 0:06:40And they don't want their car to get muddy after, like, muddy paws.
0:06:40 > 0:06:44So it's just, yeah.
0:06:44 > 0:06:46OK, no, you need to come up with...
0:06:46 > 0:06:47I don't want this to go wrong for you,
0:06:47 > 0:06:50but you need to come up with something a lot stronger than that.
0:06:50 > 0:06:53It's... Well, to keep clean, to clean children.
0:06:53 > 0:06:55But when? In their houses, or...?
0:06:55 > 0:06:57No, when they're travelling. When they're out and about.
0:06:57 > 0:07:01It is, like, whenever you need a tap that you can use this.
0:07:01 > 0:07:02- Festivals?- Pardon?- Festivals?
0:07:02 > 0:07:06Yeah, exactly. I'm glad you've reminded me of that, because...
0:07:06 > 0:07:09- You can get that for free. - Thanks for that, Touker.
0:07:10 > 0:07:14Clutching at straws and having to be reminded of one of his product's
0:07:14 > 0:07:17key markets is not the best of starts for Stuart.
0:07:18 > 0:07:21But thankfully, another Dragon is on hand to steer him
0:07:21 > 0:07:25towards that other major business opportunity, the charitable sector.
0:07:27 > 0:07:30I can totally see on the humanitarian side,
0:07:30 > 0:07:31or in the developing world,
0:07:31 > 0:07:34you could end up supplying probably quite a large number
0:07:34 > 0:07:37to water and sanitation projects around the place.
0:07:37 > 0:07:39- Yes!- Come on, Nick.
0:07:39 > 0:07:42If you are supplying, for example,
0:07:42 > 0:07:44to development projects,
0:07:44 > 0:07:48do you have any idea of the price at which you could supply them?
0:07:48 > 0:07:52Because, you know, £4 in that kind of environment is a lot of money.
0:07:52 > 0:07:57Yeah, we could probably get them down to, like, in the US, 1.50, 1.
0:07:57 > 0:07:59You are completely guessing, aren't you?
0:08:03 > 0:08:05I'm not completely guessing.
0:08:05 > 0:08:07Have you had a quote for any quantity
0:08:07 > 0:08:09that gets you down to 1.50?
0:08:09 > 0:08:12I've had a quote that's got me down to, erm...
0:08:14 > 0:08:17..2.50 on 100,000.
0:08:23 > 0:08:27- I think this pressure's building, don't you?- Yeah.
0:08:27 > 0:08:31I absolutely see how this would be an enormous amount of value
0:08:31 > 0:08:33- by the side of a latrine...- Yes. - ..where you...
0:08:33 > 0:08:36- By the side of a what?- A latrine. It's an outdoor loo.
0:08:36 > 0:08:38But I just think you'd have to produce it at a price
0:08:38 > 0:08:40that was affordable in that market,
0:08:40 > 0:08:44which would mean your margin per item is tiny,
0:08:44 > 0:08:48which would mean it's not going to be a huge business.
0:08:51 > 0:08:55Nick Jenkins can see the potential but not the profitability
0:08:55 > 0:08:58for the product's use in sanitation projects,
0:08:58 > 0:09:01talk of which has given Peter Jones concerns
0:09:01 > 0:09:03of a rather unsavoury nature.
0:09:06 > 0:09:09Isn't this going to pass on, potentially, disease, though?
0:09:12 > 0:09:14I'm going to be touching this sort of teat at the end,
0:09:14 > 0:09:15or whatever you want to call it.
0:09:15 > 0:09:19I don't think that this is something people would want to share, is it?
0:09:19 > 0:09:21Thank you, Peter. You've hit the nail on the head.
0:09:21 > 0:09:22This is a personal tap.
0:09:22 > 0:09:25This is... There is no more sharing any more taps.
0:09:25 > 0:09:29- Ah...- No, but in the humanitarian, you're sharing.
0:09:29 > 0:09:31In a development environment, where you don't get
0:09:31 > 0:09:34one latrine per person, you get a lot of shared latrines.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36So someone has just come out of the loo
0:09:36 > 0:09:38and they want to wash their hands,
0:09:38 > 0:09:40so they've put faecal material on the teat.
0:09:40 > 0:09:42How much of an issue is that?
0:09:42 > 0:09:47Well, when you are actually using one, if you have got unclean hands,
0:09:47 > 0:09:50you can actually very easily clean the whole unit,
0:09:50 > 0:09:51because it's made of silicone.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53So the unit is very easy to keep clean.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58Yeah, I would need to be a little bit more convinced about that,
0:09:58 > 0:10:01because I can't see people carrying this themselves to their latrine.
0:10:01 > 0:10:03I do see this thing hanging outside, in which case,
0:10:03 > 0:10:06you are going to have to stop people touching it with the hands
0:10:06 > 0:10:07that they have just...
0:10:08 > 0:10:10..touched their bottom with.
0:10:12 > 0:10:16Nick Jenkins gets down to the nitty-gritty of some major concerns
0:10:16 > 0:10:18over cross-contamination.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22Can Sarah Willingham see beyond the issue
0:10:22 > 0:10:24to identify a lucrative opportunity?
0:10:25 > 0:10:28I think it's a really cool product, first of all.
0:10:28 > 0:10:30- It clearly works.- Thank you.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33- Yes! Thank you, Sarah.- Come on!
0:10:33 > 0:10:35I could see, you know, last year at Glastonbury,
0:10:35 > 0:10:38I think there's quite a lot of us that could have done with it,
0:10:38 > 0:10:42and, you know... I can completely see the use of it
0:10:42 > 0:10:46- in that type of environment.- Yeah.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48Yeah, she's there.
0:10:48 > 0:10:51The challenge is, in the consumer market, which is...
0:10:52 > 0:10:55Let's call it half of your goal is to get into the consumer market,
0:10:55 > 0:10:57the other half humanitarian.
0:10:57 > 0:11:01In the consumer market, I think it is so niche,
0:11:01 > 0:11:03which doesn't make it a massive business opportunity
0:11:03 > 0:11:04for the consumer side.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07So then I got very excited about the humanitarian side.
0:11:07 > 0:11:09Very excited, actually.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13Until Peter dropped the sanitary bomb.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19And I think that was absolutely bang on, and I'd not thought of it.
0:11:19 > 0:11:21So I'm afraid I'm not going to invest.
0:11:21 > 0:11:23- I'm out.- Thank you.
0:11:25 > 0:11:29That worry about hygiene just won't go away,
0:11:29 > 0:11:32as Sarah Willingham becomes the first Dragon
0:11:32 > 0:11:34to wash her hands of a deal.
0:11:34 > 0:11:36But Deborah Meaden is still reflecting
0:11:36 > 0:11:40on her old stomping ground, the holiday market.
0:11:40 > 0:11:43Sometimes you get products you would buy and you would use
0:11:43 > 0:11:47but you wouldn't invest in, because it's just not big enough.
0:11:47 > 0:11:50The good news for you is, actually, it's quite a tight market,
0:11:50 > 0:11:52the camping market.
0:11:52 > 0:11:56You're going to know really, really quickly if you've got something.
0:11:56 > 0:11:57But I'm not convinced you have.
0:11:59 > 0:12:01- I'm really sorry, Stuart. - That's all right.
0:12:01 > 0:12:03I kind of want to,
0:12:03 > 0:12:07but I haven't found my reason, so I'm afraid I'm out.
0:12:08 > 0:12:10Thank you, all the same. Thank you.
0:12:10 > 0:12:12- Oh, Stu!- Oh, Deborah!
0:12:15 > 0:12:19Deborah Meaden pours cold water on the idea
0:12:19 > 0:12:21of a Meaden-Mason partnership.
0:12:21 > 0:12:25And it looks like Peter Jones has made up his mind, too.
0:12:28 > 0:12:32You would want this to be a high-volume product at a low cost
0:12:32 > 0:12:34and everybody to use it, and unfortunately,
0:12:34 > 0:12:36I don't think that we are...
0:12:36 > 0:12:39The communities of which you might want to go into,
0:12:39 > 0:12:41with WaterAid and the like,
0:12:41 > 0:12:43I think that the cost will need to be a lot lower,
0:12:43 > 0:12:47and then also you will have a cross-contamination issue,
0:12:47 > 0:12:50because not everybody will be able to have their own individual one.
0:12:52 > 0:12:54So, sadly, I'm out.
0:12:54 > 0:12:55But good luck to you.
0:12:57 > 0:13:00Oh, he's nearly crying. He's nearly crying.
0:13:01 > 0:13:03I think it's a great idea.
0:13:03 > 0:13:06I mean, I like it, and I'm thinking to myself, he's a nice guy -
0:13:06 > 0:13:09if I wanted to invest, how can I add value?
0:13:12 > 0:13:16And I think what this needs is your perseverance.
0:13:18 > 0:13:22But I don't see this for me as being an investment
0:13:22 > 0:13:25where I'll get a return back on it.
0:13:25 > 0:13:28And for that reason, I'm not going to invest, and I'm out.
0:13:28 > 0:13:30Thank you, Touker.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36Showered with compliments but no cash,
0:13:36 > 0:13:39as Touker Suleyman becomes the fourth Dragon to bow out.
0:13:41 > 0:13:43Nick Jenkins is Stuart's last hope.
0:13:43 > 0:13:49Can details of that industry award persuade him into an investment?
0:13:49 > 0:13:51So this went to a panel who looked at it?
0:13:51 > 0:13:53- Of expert judges.- Of expert judges,
0:13:53 > 0:13:56specifically looking at it as a water and sanitation product?
0:13:56 > 0:14:00Yeah. Water For Africa competition, we were first prize.
0:14:00 > 0:14:02This is good. Come on.
0:14:06 > 0:14:08We were actually mentioned in the HIF,
0:14:08 > 0:14:11- the Humanitarian Innovation Fund report...- Yeah.
0:14:11 > 0:14:16..and it contrasts us with what else is available within that market.
0:14:16 > 0:14:19There is not a lot. Things like a bucket.
0:14:21 > 0:14:22Erm...
0:14:27 > 0:14:31Look, I mean, I hope that you just carry on with that
0:14:31 > 0:14:32and actually it turns out
0:14:32 > 0:14:36that this doesn't have any cross-contamination issues.
0:14:36 > 0:14:37I just can't quite get past it.
0:14:39 > 0:14:40But I'm afraid I can't invest.
0:14:40 > 0:14:42I wish you all the best, and I'm out.
0:14:42 > 0:14:43Thank you.
0:14:45 > 0:14:46So that's it.
0:14:46 > 0:14:49It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much.
0:14:49 > 0:14:51Stuart leaves the Den with no cash,
0:14:51 > 0:14:54but it won't stop his steadfast determination to succeed.
0:15:01 > 0:15:02I'm not too embarrassed to say
0:15:02 > 0:15:05I've still never heard of a latrine before.
0:15:05 > 0:15:07- Really?- No.
0:15:07 > 0:15:09- Here he comes!- Here he comes.
0:15:09 > 0:15:11Oh!
0:15:11 > 0:15:13The Dragon tamer.
0:15:13 > 0:15:15All right, we didn't get that investment,
0:15:15 > 0:15:17but I'll have the whole thing.
0:15:18 > 0:15:19Because that 20%,
0:15:19 > 0:15:24that is going to be worth millions and millions and millions.
0:15:24 > 0:15:25I guarantee that.
0:15:34 > 0:15:36OK for this, though.
0:15:36 > 0:15:40Our next entrepreneur is here to pitch a wholesale food business
0:15:40 > 0:15:43with a multitude of moneymaking opportunities,
0:15:43 > 0:15:46including a restaurant franchise and a range of hot sauces.
0:15:46 > 0:15:49- That looks good, mate. - He's looking for investment
0:15:49 > 0:15:53and knows exactly which Dragons he'd like to dish out some cash.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56Right, OK. Come on, then, guys.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58Sarah, she's got a restaurant background.
0:15:58 > 0:16:02Then Peter, on the other hand, is a man that everybody wants.
0:16:02 > 0:16:05Sometimes behind every successful man is a woman.
0:16:05 > 0:16:07So if I have both of them...
0:16:08 > 0:16:09..I would be very, very happy.
0:16:11 > 0:16:12(This is the moment of our life.)
0:16:14 > 0:16:16(The moment of truth.)
0:16:19 > 0:16:22SPANISH GUITAR MUSIC PLAYS
0:16:39 > 0:16:42Hello, Dragons. My name is Faheem Badur.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44I'm the director and sole shareholder of a company
0:16:44 > 0:16:48called Direct Wholesale And Investment Group Limited.
0:16:48 > 0:16:52Direct Wholesale was established in 2010 with the main aim of supplying
0:16:52 > 0:16:54restaurants and food service sector
0:16:54 > 0:16:58with my own blend of recipes and products.
0:16:58 > 0:17:01In 2012, we decided to get a bit adventurous
0:17:01 > 0:17:04and vertically integrate our business model
0:17:04 > 0:17:09and we created Perios, which is a fast, casual restaurant concept
0:17:09 > 0:17:13based on food with global flavours, flavours from all over the world.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17We have expanded the brand rapidly.
0:17:17 > 0:17:19We have now got six stores.
0:17:19 > 0:17:20Of six...
0:17:21 > 0:17:23..five are franchised, one is company-owned.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27We have also developed our sauce range,
0:17:27 > 0:17:30which we are only at the moment selling from our restaurants,
0:17:30 > 0:17:33but we would love to take these into the retail sector
0:17:33 > 0:17:35and expand on the brand.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37Last year the company turned over 1.5 million.
0:17:37 > 0:17:39That's on the wholesale side only.
0:17:39 > 0:17:43And hopefully, with you guys on board,
0:17:43 > 0:17:46we can make Perios a national and possibly a global brand.
0:17:46 > 0:17:48- What are you asking for?- Oh! Sorry.
0:17:48 > 0:17:50You've forgotten the most important part of your pitch.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52- Yes, yes, yes. - You don't want any money,
0:17:52 > 0:17:54you don't want any percentage.
0:17:54 > 0:17:55I just want you guys on board!
0:17:55 > 0:17:58- That's all I want!- £25 and 50%!
0:17:58 > 0:18:01Touker, you can have anything you want.
0:18:01 > 0:18:02You've got the same style!
0:18:02 > 0:18:05- FAHEEM LAUGHS - I'm pitching...
0:18:05 > 0:18:06I'm pitching...
0:18:06 > 0:18:10I am asking for £130,000 in return for 10% equity in the business.
0:18:12 > 0:18:15- All right, carry on. - Thank you very much! Thank you.
0:18:15 > 0:18:18With a restaurant franchise, sauce supply,
0:18:18 > 0:18:20and plans to expand into retail,
0:18:20 > 0:18:24it's all going on in Faheem Badur's business.
0:18:24 > 0:18:26- What is this, chicken? - This is chicken breast.
0:18:27 > 0:18:30Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Freddie, Hal,
0:18:30 > 0:18:32you have done a great job. Thank you very much.
0:18:32 > 0:18:37The enthusiastic entrepreneur is looking for £130,000
0:18:37 > 0:18:39for just 10% of his company.
0:18:40 > 0:18:44Nick Jenkins wants to make sense of what he has heard so far.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51Hi, I'm Nick. You spoke very quickly in that presentation,
0:18:51 > 0:18:55and I have this feeling that the reason you spoke quickly is because
0:18:55 > 0:18:58you are thinking, "I have hot food samples that have just come in.
0:18:58 > 0:19:01"The longer I speak, the cooler these food samples are going to get.
0:19:01 > 0:19:03"I need to speak incredibly quickly!"
0:19:03 > 0:19:05- So...- I think that's absolutely correct.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08Apart from the fact that I was really nervous, trying to hide it!
0:19:08 > 0:19:10So what we've got is... This is a bit confusing.
0:19:10 > 0:19:13We've got a business which is...
0:19:13 > 0:19:15It's several businesses all meshed into one.
0:19:15 > 0:19:16What I want to do is...
0:19:16 > 0:19:19I've got experience in the food service sector
0:19:19 > 0:19:20plus the restaurant sector,
0:19:20 > 0:19:23and one of the elements that I want to touch is retail.
0:19:23 > 0:19:25I want to get into the sort of retail sector.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28I've got products that is very appealing that I've developed
0:19:28 > 0:19:31- for the food service sector... - You've got to make this more snappy!
0:19:31 > 0:19:34I'm still sitting here struggling to understand what I'm investing in.
0:19:34 > 0:19:36Am I investing in a restaurant supply business
0:19:36 > 0:19:38or am I investing in a restaurant chain?
0:19:38 > 0:19:40You're investing in both.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45Faheem confirms that he wants the investment to grow
0:19:45 > 0:19:48his restaurant franchise and product range.
0:19:48 > 0:19:50But the Dragons still remain confused
0:19:50 > 0:19:53over the many facets of his business.
0:19:53 > 0:19:57Now the Dragon who made her fortune in restaurant chain roll-outs
0:19:57 > 0:20:01wants to pick apart yet another aspect of his company -
0:20:01 > 0:20:03his restaurant franchise model.
0:20:05 > 0:20:09I don't get it. I'm trying desperately hard to understand this.
0:20:09 > 0:20:12You opened a restaurant and somebody came along and went,
0:20:12 > 0:20:15"Wow, this is absolutely amazing, I'd like to have a franchise of it."
0:20:15 > 0:20:17It's the other way around. We first sold it,
0:20:17 > 0:20:19and then somebody came and said, "Amazing."
0:20:19 > 0:20:22We built up the visuals and somebody came and said,
0:20:22 > 0:20:25"Look, this looks amazing and we'll have it."
0:20:25 > 0:20:27I might be being so thick here - I don't...
0:20:27 > 0:20:30So did you open a franchise before you opened your own restaurant?
0:20:30 > 0:20:31It was simultaneously, actually.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33So you opened two together.
0:20:33 > 0:20:34- Yes.- OK. And what did they pay for that?
0:20:36 > 0:20:40We actually just charged them the basics in terms of like setup,
0:20:40 > 0:20:43and then what you've got to do is you have to do the...
0:20:43 > 0:20:47Commission builders to carry on doing the work,
0:20:47 > 0:20:50and we actually then supply the artwork and everything,
0:20:50 > 0:20:52it's all ours.
0:20:52 > 0:20:54- And they buy the sauce from you? - Yes.
0:20:54 > 0:20:55So, of your restaurant, for example,
0:20:55 > 0:20:59you should be making 80-100 grand bottom line on that site.
0:20:59 > 0:21:01Yeah, hopefully we'll be making that.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03OK. Hopefully or yeah?
0:21:03 > 0:21:05Yeah, because we just sort of opened, so we've...
0:21:05 > 0:21:08Hang on, I thought you opened it in 2012?
0:21:08 > 0:21:112012 was our first small takeaway restaurant that we opened,
0:21:11 > 0:21:13and that one we have actually...
0:21:13 > 0:21:14We licensed it out,
0:21:14 > 0:21:17management licence for somebody else to operate.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19Oh, my God. Couldn't be more confused.
0:21:22 > 0:21:25Despite her years working with high street restaurants,
0:21:25 > 0:21:27Sarah Willingham is struggling to get to grips
0:21:27 > 0:21:30with Faheem's business model.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33And it's meant the only thing on the menu for Deborah Meaden
0:21:33 > 0:21:34is exasperation.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38I'm confused. I don't know about anybody else.
0:21:38 > 0:21:40- Totally. - Well, I'm clearly confused.
0:21:40 > 0:21:44Would you just like to explain turnover, gross margin,
0:21:44 > 0:21:45overheads, net profit?
0:21:46 > 0:21:48Turnover last year, 1.5.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51Net profit, 65.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53And what does it look like next year?
0:21:53 > 0:21:55From now onwards, we have got...
0:21:55 > 0:21:58We are ready. I think our model is ready, our structure is ready,
0:21:58 > 0:22:01and all we want to do is start franchising.
0:22:01 > 0:22:04So anything we've franchised is net, any revenue is coming is net.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06We don't have any other expenses.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08Sorry, is that your idea of explaining to me
0:22:08 > 0:22:10- how your business works?- Er...
0:22:10 > 0:22:11I'm just asking you...
0:22:12 > 0:22:15..just to explain your business in numbers.
0:22:15 > 0:22:17How much profit are you going to make next year?
0:22:17 > 0:22:18I'm looking to turn over...
0:22:18 > 0:22:21No, no, no. Next word out of your mouth is a number.
0:22:21 > 0:22:23How much profit are you going to make next year?
0:22:23 > 0:22:24Half a million.
0:22:26 > 0:22:27Great.
0:22:29 > 0:22:32Deborah Meaden faces an uphill struggle
0:22:32 > 0:22:35as she tries to clarify Faheem's basic numbers.
0:22:35 > 0:22:40And now Peter Jones is poised to deliver a critique of his menu.
0:22:42 > 0:22:45- I'm going to say it how it is - I'm not impressed.- OK.
0:22:45 > 0:22:48I think this is something my kids could put together as a menu.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51You've got about 12 products there.
0:22:51 > 0:22:53You've come up with a sauce and you've bottled it
0:22:53 > 0:22:56with a pretty average label. The most impressive thing
0:22:56 > 0:22:58is when you say you've turned over 1.5 million.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00I think that's when everybody is, "Wow!"
0:23:01 > 0:23:03You've got us at that point.
0:23:03 > 0:23:07But if you didn't have the turnover, you'd kind of question, what is it,
0:23:07 > 0:23:10really, that you've got? You've got almost five or six pop-up type
0:23:10 > 0:23:14restaurants, where frankly, the food looks very average.
0:23:14 > 0:23:15Literally, you've got 12...
0:23:15 > 0:23:18I can only go into this restaurant and have 12 things.
0:23:18 > 0:23:20There is 1,600 different combinations of food
0:23:20 > 0:23:23you can have there using different spice and ingredients.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26- So if you actually... - I can have grilled chicken,
0:23:26 > 0:23:28I can go for the sizzler, chicken bite or buffalo wings.
0:23:28 > 0:23:30But you've got nine different flavours,
0:23:30 > 0:23:31so each one you can choose...
0:23:31 > 0:23:33But, Faheem, do you not see what I mean?
0:23:33 > 0:23:37You look at the back here - you only offer five drinks.
0:23:37 > 0:23:40We... It's a refill, so you can choose.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42Why can't I have a bottle of beer?
0:23:42 > 0:23:44Oh, yeah, actually, let me show you something.
0:23:44 > 0:23:46- No, not now!- No, no, no, no, I've got...
0:23:46 > 0:23:48Hang on a second. Hang on a second.
0:23:48 > 0:23:50So that is basically our beer menu.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52Oh, right, so you have got more...
0:23:52 > 0:23:54That's our kids' menu.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56- Right.- And that is our dessert menu.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59We have actually developed a Perios kids story for kids.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03- Is there anything else? - There is a lot to it, Peter!
0:24:03 > 0:24:05HE LAUGHS
0:24:06 > 0:24:11Confusion around Faheem's business plan, confusion around his menus,
0:24:11 > 0:24:14and now Nick Jenkins appears confused
0:24:14 > 0:24:17about the story behind brand Perios.
0:24:19 > 0:24:20Is Perio a person?
0:24:20 > 0:24:23Perios is a brand we actually created
0:24:23 > 0:24:26which wanted to represent the world flavours.
0:24:26 > 0:24:29OK, but what does it mean?
0:24:29 > 0:24:31You know, brand relies a little bit on authenticity.
0:24:31 > 0:24:33If you had told me a story about Perry, who is...
0:24:33 > 0:24:36Or Perio, who is a chap who had a great-great-great-grandfather
0:24:36 > 0:24:38who was Indian and another one who was Portuguese,
0:24:38 > 0:24:41another one who was Mexican - very multicultural family -
0:24:41 > 0:24:44and he used to spend his time with his great-great-great...
0:24:44 > 0:24:47I say great-great-great-grandparents cos there's about 12 different
0:24:47 > 0:24:48flavours here. They would all sit round
0:24:48 > 0:24:51for this multicultural breakfast, and this is what he wanted
0:24:51 > 0:24:53- to recreate in his restaurant... - That is a good story!
0:24:53 > 0:24:56Am I just helping you out with a brand story here?
0:24:56 > 0:24:58Are you kidding me? Is this actually happening?
0:24:58 > 0:25:00- This is a mishmash of... - It's not actually mishmash.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02If it was, people would not come in.
0:25:02 > 0:25:04- We'd not have customers coming in. - Faheem...
0:25:04 > 0:25:05Hang on, Touker, I haven't finished yet.
0:25:05 > 0:25:08- Save me!- I haven't finished yet. You're speaking to me.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10Right, if I was looking for a restaurant franchise,
0:25:10 > 0:25:12I wouldn't be filled with confidence right now.
0:25:12 > 0:25:14And I just don't really get the story,
0:25:14 > 0:25:16I don't understand what this is.
0:25:16 > 0:25:17All these menus you've given us -
0:25:17 > 0:25:19there's one over there that's got a picture of...
0:25:19 > 0:25:21It looks like an American diner.
0:25:21 > 0:25:24There we go, OK. This just doesn't tie in with that, which doesn't...
0:25:24 > 0:25:28It does. We've got American flavour on the menu.
0:25:28 > 0:25:30I'm sorry, you've... I'm going to tell you where I am.
0:25:30 > 0:25:33I am so confused by your numbers,
0:25:33 > 0:25:36I'm completely confused by your brand,
0:25:36 > 0:25:39but I'm not confused about whether or not I'm going to invest.
0:25:39 > 0:25:40I'm not. I'm out.
0:25:42 > 0:25:46Faheem fails to survive a grilling from Nick Jenkins,
0:25:46 > 0:25:48who becomes the first Dragon to go out.
0:25:49 > 0:25:53And it looks like Deborah Meaden is heading for the exit, too.
0:25:53 > 0:25:55This has been one of the most frustrating pitches
0:25:55 > 0:25:57I think I've ever sat through.
0:25:57 > 0:25:59I'm sorry, Deborah, if you feel like that.
0:25:59 > 0:26:01And with all honesty,
0:26:01 > 0:26:03if I knew even 1% that what I'm pitching,
0:26:03 > 0:26:05you would not double up the investment...
0:26:05 > 0:26:06But that's just words.
0:26:06 > 0:26:09How many people do you think I get standing in front of me saying,
0:26:09 > 0:26:12"You give me your money and I'll double up your investment"?
0:26:12 > 0:26:16Yeah, but what if I gave you a personal guarantee on the money?
0:26:17 > 0:26:19- Well, can you?- Yes, I can.
0:26:19 > 0:26:20Are you very wealthy?
0:26:20 > 0:26:22I'm not very wealthy, but I've got enough...
0:26:22 > 0:26:24Yeah, but a personal guarantee...
0:26:24 > 0:26:26I'll put my house in your name!
0:26:26 > 0:26:28No, no, you see, I really, really...
0:26:28 > 0:26:32That's not... Really? You think I'd turf somebody out of their house?
0:26:32 > 0:26:33- It's not... - No, I'm just sort of saying,
0:26:33 > 0:26:36I believe in the business, I believe in the model, and I really...
0:26:36 > 0:26:39Faheem, listen to me, I'm trying to help you here.
0:26:39 > 0:26:40You're not going to get an investment from me,
0:26:40 > 0:26:43but at some point, you're going to have to get investment.
0:26:43 > 0:26:45You're going to have to explain your business.
0:26:45 > 0:26:47You can't. You haven't.
0:26:47 > 0:26:49I'm out.
0:26:52 > 0:26:54I think you've done great,
0:26:54 > 0:26:55coming to where you are today.
0:26:55 > 0:26:57You're turning over one and a half million.
0:26:57 > 0:27:00But what worries me is, you're all over the place.
0:27:00 > 0:27:03And I think bringing a Dragon on board is not going to change
0:27:03 > 0:27:05the situation. Might make it worse for you.
0:27:07 > 0:27:08And I can't invest in you.
0:27:09 > 0:27:10I'm out.
0:27:13 > 0:27:17That impressive turnover goes by the wayside yet again,
0:27:17 > 0:27:21as Faheem's inability to explain his business succinctly
0:27:21 > 0:27:23leads to the loss of another Dragon.
0:27:23 > 0:27:26Could the Den's king of sauce, Peter Jones,
0:27:26 > 0:27:30be the one to propel Faheem's brand and his restaurant concept
0:27:30 > 0:27:32into the big-time?
0:27:33 > 0:27:37I've opened restaurants before and I've failed miserably
0:27:37 > 0:27:39because I've got it wrong, and in fact,
0:27:39 > 0:27:41I've lost my shirt on one restaurant.
0:27:41 > 0:27:43I don't think I could add anything to you.
0:27:43 > 0:27:46But my big issue with this is I think that you've got a lot wrong,
0:27:46 > 0:27:49and I think you're going down a very, very dangerous road.
0:27:49 > 0:27:51I think you need to go back to the drawing board
0:27:51 > 0:27:54and start to really think about what you've got here,
0:27:54 > 0:27:57and which type of business you want to invest your time into.
0:27:57 > 0:28:00You want to be a wholesale sauce provider at low margin
0:28:00 > 0:28:03into restaurant chains and do what you used to do?
0:28:03 > 0:28:06That's what you should do. If you want to run and set up
0:28:06 > 0:28:09a small pop-up style restaurant and go on to the next,
0:28:09 > 0:28:11you should do that.
0:28:11 > 0:28:14Combining it is not a good thing for you.
0:28:14 > 0:28:16So I'm not going to invest in you,
0:28:16 > 0:28:18because I think that you are personally confused
0:28:18 > 0:28:21about where the direction of this business is going.
0:28:21 > 0:28:24And that's the reason why I'm not going to give you the money today,
0:28:24 > 0:28:26- and say that I'm out.- Thanks, Peter.
0:28:28 > 0:28:30Peter Jones walks away from the deal,
0:28:30 > 0:28:35leaving the Den's resident restaurateur with the final bill.
0:28:35 > 0:28:41Will Faheem's £1.5 million turnover be enough to entice Sarah Willingham
0:28:41 > 0:28:43to come on board and streamline the business?
0:28:46 > 0:28:49I have never worked so hard in the Den
0:28:49 > 0:28:50to try and understand a business.
0:28:50 > 0:28:52This is so up my street.
0:28:52 > 0:28:54You know, this is what I've done.
0:28:54 > 0:28:58You've done 1.5 million turnover - I think that's bloody brilliant.
0:28:59 > 0:29:03But I have no concept of where you make your money within the business.
0:29:03 > 0:29:05I have no concept of how this can get rolled out.
0:29:08 > 0:29:12And I have no choice but to say I'm out.
0:29:12 > 0:29:13Thank you.
0:29:15 > 0:29:19Faheem's dreams of a double Dragon deal with Peter Jones
0:29:19 > 0:29:21and Sarah Willingham are dashed,
0:29:21 > 0:29:25and the dapper entrepreneur leaves the Den with nothing.
0:29:27 > 0:29:29I could not explain to them the whole vision properly.
0:29:29 > 0:29:34I think that was a bit of, probably, my fault, maybe, in a way.
0:29:34 > 0:29:37I've never seen a restaurant with a more confusing...
0:29:37 > 0:29:39What, am I in a Mexican place?
0:29:39 > 0:29:42Then there's a bit of Indian and a bit of Japanese,
0:29:42 > 0:29:44and a bit of this and a bit of that.
0:29:44 > 0:29:46I think the tougher it gets, the more of a...
0:29:46 > 0:29:48You know, like a phoenix, you rise again, stronger.
0:29:48 > 0:29:50So hopefully it will be...
0:29:50 > 0:29:53The resurrection will be much stronger.
0:29:53 > 0:29:54Hopefully.
0:30:02 > 0:30:05When Ben Drury from Sidcup faced the Dragons,
0:30:05 > 0:30:08it wasn't his pitch that baffled them, but his product -
0:30:08 > 0:30:13a gadget to help parents teach their children to tie their shoelaces.
0:30:13 > 0:30:15Children don't seem to have a problem
0:30:15 > 0:30:17doing that first bit of the lace up.
0:30:17 > 0:30:20The issue they have is the dexterity to hold it all together
0:30:20 > 0:30:22while they do the lace. What the Lace'mup does
0:30:22 > 0:30:24is allow them to hold the bunny ears
0:30:24 > 0:30:28and do exactly what they did the first time, and pull it tight.
0:30:28 > 0:30:30The Lace'mup then just comes straight off the shoe,
0:30:30 > 0:30:32leaving the lace tied.
0:30:33 > 0:30:35The product divided the Den between the Dragons
0:30:35 > 0:30:37who found it easy to use...
0:30:38 > 0:30:41I did it. There.
0:30:41 > 0:30:43..and those who struggled to master it.
0:30:43 > 0:30:45I find that quite fiddly.
0:30:45 > 0:30:49I am finding this harder to tie than I would the shoelace.
0:30:49 > 0:30:52As was Peter Jones, who'd had to call in for reinforcements.
0:30:52 > 0:30:54I've had to ask a fellow Dragon to do it for me.
0:30:54 > 0:30:57And I'm not going to tie your shoelaces again!
0:30:57 > 0:30:59It's about time you did them yourself.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01When you buy it, there are instructions inside.
0:31:01 > 0:31:03What, so I've got to teach my child how to do this?
0:31:03 > 0:31:06- The first time, yes. - Isn't it quicker just to teach them
0:31:06 > 0:31:09- how to tie their shoelaces up? - With four kids under ten,
0:31:09 > 0:31:13it was left to Sarah Willingham to judge the product's usefulness.
0:31:13 > 0:31:15This is one of those umbrella on a hat moments.
0:31:15 > 0:31:18You have made something that is so simple
0:31:18 > 0:31:20and that all kids learn to do.
0:31:20 > 0:31:23Might take them a week, might take them a day,
0:31:23 > 0:31:24it's dead easy.
0:31:24 > 0:31:28You have solved a problem that doesn't exist.
0:31:28 > 0:31:29Which, sadly for Ben,
0:31:29 > 0:31:33meant he failed to tie any of the Dragons into an investment.
0:31:33 > 0:31:34Really sorry, Ben, but I'm out.
0:31:34 > 0:31:36- I'm out.- I'm afraid I'm out, too.
0:31:36 > 0:31:38Thank you.
0:31:47 > 0:31:49Still to come, battle of the sexes...
0:31:49 > 0:31:51I'm giving you a man's point of view.
0:31:51 > 0:31:53No, you're giving Touker's point of view.
0:31:53 > 0:31:55- There is a difference. - Touker's point of view, then, fine.
0:31:55 > 0:31:57..putting up defences...
0:31:57 > 0:32:00For every four stores, they are selling one.
0:32:00 > 0:32:02- Yes.- You think that's good?
0:32:02 > 0:32:04I think that's excellent.
0:32:04 > 0:32:06But will the Dragons do a deal?
0:32:06 > 0:32:11You've created a business that's already very profitable.
0:32:11 > 0:32:13Don't see very many of those in here.
0:32:13 > 0:32:16In terms of the product, I think it's absolutely brilliant.
0:32:17 > 0:32:19You've done well, haven't you?
0:32:22 > 0:32:26Next up, a hairdresser and a beautician who've created a product
0:32:26 > 0:32:29which they believe stands out from the crowd.
0:32:29 > 0:32:31They are here to find financial backing,
0:32:31 > 0:32:34and maybe a cover girl, too.
0:32:34 > 0:32:36You look beautiful, all of you.
0:32:36 > 0:32:37Thank you.
0:32:41 > 0:32:44All the Dragons could be influential for our business, but I have to say,
0:32:44 > 0:32:47Sarah Willingham quite easily in her own right could be
0:32:47 > 0:32:49the face of a cosmetics company.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52Obviously she has great business knowledge.
0:32:52 > 0:32:53So with the combination of the two,
0:32:53 > 0:32:57I think she would be a great asset to our company.
0:32:57 > 0:32:58(Are you ready?)
0:32:58 > 0:33:00(I was born ready!)
0:33:13 > 0:33:14# Are you ready?
0:33:14 > 0:33:18# G-L-A-M
0:33:18 > 0:33:20# O-R
0:33:20 > 0:33:22# O-U-S, yeah
0:33:22 > 0:33:25# G-L-A-M
0:33:25 > 0:33:27# O-R
0:33:27 > 0:33:29# O-U-S
0:33:29 > 0:33:32# G-L-A-M
0:33:32 > 0:33:34# O-R
0:33:34 > 0:33:36# O-U-S, yeah
0:33:36 > 0:33:39# G-L-A-M
0:33:39 > 0:33:41# O-R... #
0:33:43 > 0:33:45Hello, Dragons. My name is Paula.
0:33:45 > 0:33:49And my name is Rachel, and our company is called Beauty Boulevard,
0:33:49 > 0:33:51and we've created a product called Glitter Lips,
0:33:51 > 0:33:52which is a high-impact,
0:33:52 > 0:33:55long-lasting glitter lip product that is drink proof,
0:33:55 > 0:33:56kiss proof and party proof.
0:33:58 > 0:34:01We are here today to offer you a 5% stake in our company
0:34:01 > 0:34:04in return for a £65,000 investment.
0:34:04 > 0:34:05The application is simple.
0:34:05 > 0:34:08You apply the gloss on to clean, dry lips.
0:34:08 > 0:34:10You then apply the glitter to the gloss
0:34:10 > 0:34:12and once those two items touch, they set.
0:34:12 > 0:34:15Our products have graced the pages of Elle, Cosmopolitan,
0:34:15 > 0:34:18Grazia and Vogue, and we've also been on TV,
0:34:18 > 0:34:20on ITV's This Morning,
0:34:20 > 0:34:22Ant And Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway
0:34:22 > 0:34:25and Strictly Come Dancing.
0:34:25 > 0:34:26We have since gone on to supply...
0:34:27 > 0:34:30..450 stockists in the UK.
0:34:30 > 0:34:34We supply Superdrug, Fenwicks and Topshop Oxford Street.
0:34:34 > 0:34:37We also have seven stockists worldwide.
0:34:37 > 0:34:42In our first month of trading, we turned over £367.
0:34:42 > 0:34:45However, six months on from that,
0:34:45 > 0:34:48we had a monthly turnover of £39,000.
0:34:48 > 0:34:54Last year, we turned over £250,000 on Glitter Lips By Beauty Boulevard.
0:34:54 > 0:34:56We thank you for listening and we welcome your questions.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02With their glittery lipstick range,
0:35:02 > 0:35:06Rachel de Caux and Paula Short are clearly aiming to dazzle the Dragons
0:35:06 > 0:35:07into an investment.
0:35:09 > 0:35:10Thank you to our models.
0:35:10 > 0:35:12Thank you very much.
0:35:12 > 0:35:16They are hoping to kiss goodbye to a 5% stake in their business
0:35:16 > 0:35:20in return for £65,000 of Dragon capital.
0:35:22 > 0:35:26The product has certainly made an impression on Touker Suleyman.
0:35:26 > 0:35:28But is it the right one?
0:35:30 > 0:35:31Ladies.
0:35:31 > 0:35:33I can just imagine, I'm going on a date...
0:35:35 > 0:35:37..and I pick up the young lady
0:35:37 > 0:35:40and she comes out with lips like that.
0:35:40 > 0:35:41I'd go...
0:35:44 > 0:35:48Why? Because I've never seen it, and I wouldn't expect it.
0:35:48 > 0:35:50I'm giving you a man's point...
0:35:50 > 0:35:52I'm a bachelor, so I'm giving you a man's point of view.
0:35:52 > 0:35:54No, you're giving Touker's point of view.
0:35:54 > 0:35:57- There's a difference. - Touker's point of view, then, fine.
0:35:57 > 0:35:59I was a bit bemused when you first walked in,
0:35:59 > 0:36:02I was slightly reminded... I saw the light glinting off the lips,
0:36:02 > 0:36:04and I was reminded of a scene from Moonraker,
0:36:04 > 0:36:07where Jaws has his sort of metal teeth.
0:36:07 > 0:36:09But as you walked a bit closer, I kind of got it.
0:36:09 > 0:36:11It really does sparkle.
0:36:11 > 0:36:13It's quite incredible.
0:36:13 > 0:36:15We've obviously worn big colours for you to see today,
0:36:15 > 0:36:19but there's very subtle colours as well that will just add a sheen.
0:36:19 > 0:36:22Not just the colours - the sparkle bit is really quite...
0:36:22 > 0:36:24You've got that... You have nailed that.
0:36:24 > 0:36:25That's brilliant.
0:36:25 > 0:36:27Rachel and Paula, can we be...?
0:36:27 > 0:36:31- Oh!- Can we start being a bit more serious about this, please?
0:36:32 > 0:36:34So, you turned...
0:36:35 > 0:36:37- What's so funny?- That's a really good application, actually!
0:36:37 > 0:36:39Oh, he does wear lipstick.
0:36:39 > 0:36:40I'm not surprised.
0:36:40 > 0:36:44You turned over 250,000 last year, is that right?
0:36:44 > 0:36:46- Yes.- What was your profit?
0:36:46 > 0:36:50Our gross profit was 225, and our net profit was 104.
0:36:52 > 0:36:54And how many products did you sell?
0:36:54 > 0:36:57We sold 38,000 units last year.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00We've done 55,000 in total since we started.
0:37:00 > 0:37:0155,000.
0:37:03 > 0:37:04That's quite a lot.
0:37:07 > 0:37:09- What does it sell for? - £12.50 is our retail, yes.
0:37:09 > 0:37:11Right, and what does it cost you?
0:37:11 > 0:37:13- 78p.- 78p.
0:37:13 > 0:37:15And what about your distributors?
0:37:15 > 0:37:16£5.99.
0:37:16 > 0:37:18- OK, good margin.- It's OK.
0:37:20 > 0:37:23A product that's flying off the shelves
0:37:23 > 0:37:25with a healthy margin to boot.
0:37:25 > 0:37:28Surely the perfect package for any savvy investor?
0:37:30 > 0:37:32But there's something troubling Sarah Willingham.
0:37:34 > 0:37:36Yeah, your numbers are much better than I thought.
0:37:36 > 0:37:39The problem is, when you value a business
0:37:39 > 0:37:41at a multiple of your profits, which is what you've done -
0:37:41 > 0:37:44I mean, you've valued the business at 12 times profit -
0:37:44 > 0:37:47you know, you're kind of investing in...
0:37:47 > 0:37:50the future quite far down the line.
0:37:50 > 0:37:53And my big concern is,
0:37:53 > 0:37:57if you're taking that much turnover and proving that market,
0:37:57 > 0:38:00why won't Rimmel and everybody else come out with the same,
0:38:00 > 0:38:01if they haven't already?
0:38:01 > 0:38:04I mean, I have seen glitter lipsticks.
0:38:04 > 0:38:05How can you protect that?
0:38:07 > 0:38:09We've had a two-and-a-half-year head start,
0:38:09 > 0:38:12and we have a nondisclosure agreement with our suppliers
0:38:12 > 0:38:15on the formula that we've created,
0:38:15 > 0:38:18so we've protected ourselves as much as we possibly can.
0:38:18 > 0:38:22The hardest thing for us right now is
0:38:22 > 0:38:25we don't get in front of any buyers anywhere.
0:38:25 > 0:38:27Despite that PR, I find that incredible.
0:38:29 > 0:38:34That is incredible, because buyers' jobs are to find product,
0:38:34 > 0:38:36and you have had major exposure,
0:38:36 > 0:38:38so that worries me more than that encourages me,
0:38:38 > 0:38:42because all I can do is get you in front of a buyer,
0:38:42 > 0:38:44but if they've got an intrinsic reason why they're just...
0:38:44 > 0:38:46You know, they're seeing what we see.
0:38:46 > 0:38:49They're seeing that it's being used in some very high-profile places,
0:38:49 > 0:38:51you can tell them how many you've sold,
0:38:51 > 0:38:53and they are still not buying them. That does worry me.
0:38:57 > 0:39:01Sarah Willingham and Deborah Meaden raise serious questions
0:39:01 > 0:39:03over the product's long-term prospects.
0:39:03 > 0:39:07Have they taken the sparkle off proceedings for Touker Suleyman?
0:39:09 > 0:39:13I agree, it's a good little earner for you guys while the going is hot.
0:39:13 > 0:39:15I'd really push it.
0:39:15 > 0:39:18But try and get out when you can smell that it's sort of coming off,
0:39:18 > 0:39:21before you end up with a lot of stock.
0:39:21 > 0:39:22I don't think you need investment.
0:39:22 > 0:39:24I think, from what you're saying,
0:39:24 > 0:39:27all you need is to keep on plugging it, you know?
0:39:27 > 0:39:29Keep on knocking on doors.
0:39:29 > 0:39:31But I'm not going to be an investor in this
0:39:31 > 0:39:33because I think it's very limited, it's a fad,
0:39:33 > 0:39:36and for that reason, I'm out.
0:39:38 > 0:39:42Man down, as Touker Suleyman exits the deal.
0:39:42 > 0:39:45Will Nick Jenkins be prepared to gloss over
0:39:45 > 0:39:48his fellow Dragons' worries about the business' longevity?
0:39:53 > 0:39:57I have to say, I'm pretty impressed with what you've done with this...
0:39:59 > 0:40:02..in that you've created a business with a fantastic margin
0:40:02 > 0:40:05and that's already very profitable.
0:40:05 > 0:40:07Don't see very many of those in here.
0:40:09 > 0:40:12It's just that, unfortunately, I can't see anything that I could add.
0:40:12 > 0:40:14But well done, and good luck.
0:40:14 > 0:40:15But...
0:40:15 > 0:40:17I like it! Thank you very much.
0:40:17 > 0:40:20Thank you very much for your time, Nick. Thank you.
0:40:22 > 0:40:25I'm not convinced that I've helped you in any way
0:40:25 > 0:40:26by wearing the product today.
0:40:26 > 0:40:29- Me neither. - So, for that, I apologise.
0:40:29 > 0:40:31But I had to try the product.
0:40:31 > 0:40:34- Of course you did. - Having tried it and seen it,
0:40:34 > 0:40:37I'm not convinced, actually, that this is going to work.
0:40:37 > 0:40:41It's just not something that I can see that's going to go mass-market,
0:40:41 > 0:40:44because I think it is an acquired taste.
0:40:44 > 0:40:45So, for that reason, I'm out.
0:40:48 > 0:40:51Clearly you'll sell some, because you are selling them already.
0:40:51 > 0:40:53And, you know, I think it's really funky.
0:40:53 > 0:40:55It's cool. It's great. But it is fashion.
0:40:55 > 0:40:59I am a little worried about why the buyers aren't picking it up.
0:40:59 > 0:41:00I know it's just going for it now,
0:41:00 > 0:41:04but I think it might be a bit of a blast, and then go quiet.
0:41:04 > 0:41:06So I won't be investing.
0:41:06 > 0:41:07I'm out.
0:41:10 > 0:41:11Another loss,
0:41:11 > 0:41:15leaving just one person able to rescue Rachel and Paula's
0:41:15 > 0:41:19investment dreams, their preferred Dragon, Sarah Willingham.
0:41:23 > 0:41:25I actually don't think it's properly peaked yet.
0:41:25 > 0:41:28I do think you'll do those numbers this year.
0:41:31 > 0:41:34But I don't think next year it will be a bigger number.
0:41:35 > 0:41:36It's not a five-year thing,
0:41:36 > 0:41:38which makes it very difficult to invest in
0:41:38 > 0:41:40because it's quick cash now,
0:41:40 > 0:41:42and it's not enough cash to justify the multiple of profit
0:41:42 > 0:41:45that you're asking in terms of the investment.
0:41:47 > 0:41:51So I'm going to use it, but I'm not going to invest.
0:41:51 > 0:41:53So good luck, but I'm afraid I'm out.
0:41:53 > 0:41:54- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:41:57 > 0:42:00So the Dragon the entrepreneurs hoped would be
0:42:00 > 0:42:03the face of their brand and the brawn of their bank balance
0:42:03 > 0:42:07is the one to deliver the fatal blow to their pitch.
0:42:07 > 0:42:10They leave the Den with nothing.
0:42:10 > 0:42:12All right, all right, all right. Don't say a word.
0:42:12 > 0:42:16- Peter, you've got something... - Peter, Peter, give us a little...
0:42:16 > 0:42:18- Yeah, there.- Give us a little...
0:42:18 > 0:42:21Yeah, all right. Don't have to take the mickey!
0:42:22 > 0:42:23Peter Jones as a model...
0:42:24 > 0:42:28I think, if I had to hire a model, Peter Jones wouldn't be it.
0:42:28 > 0:42:30I'd have to say, "I'm out."
0:42:45 > 0:42:48Last through the lift doors are husband and wife team
0:42:48 > 0:42:51Martin Chard and Jenny David.
0:42:51 > 0:42:55Martin has Asperger's and dyslexia, conditions which have presented
0:42:55 > 0:42:58their own set of challenges in getting his product to market.
0:43:03 > 0:43:04- Good luck.- Yeah. I love you.
0:43:07 > 0:43:10Every day, things I tend to stumble a lot on, you know,
0:43:10 > 0:43:12it's the simple things that everybody can do.
0:43:12 > 0:43:14So I've spent my whole life feeling stupid.
0:43:14 > 0:43:16This is it. This is what you want.
0:43:19 > 0:43:22And that's the whole purpose of doing this,
0:43:22 > 0:43:25because I wanted to look in the mirror and look at something
0:43:25 > 0:43:26that I felt proud of.
0:43:34 > 0:43:36Hello. My name's Martin Chard.
0:43:36 > 0:43:37This is my wife, Jenny David.
0:43:38 > 0:43:43We're here today to ask for £50,000 investment
0:43:43 > 0:43:47and your valuable business expertise in return for
0:43:47 > 0:43:5020% of our Marxman Limited.
0:43:50 > 0:43:55I'd describe myself as dyslexic with a sprinkle of Asperger's.
0:43:55 > 0:43:57People often say I think outside the box.
0:43:57 > 0:44:00Truth is, I never had a box in the first place.
0:44:00 > 0:44:04I've been working for many years now as a building maintenance engineer,
0:44:04 > 0:44:06and I often have to put up lots of shelves,
0:44:06 > 0:44:08fixtures and fittings throughout the day.
0:44:08 > 0:44:10I've found that it can be quite frustrating,
0:44:10 > 0:44:13marking where to drill the hole positions.
0:44:17 > 0:44:19This is the Marxman. You simply...
0:44:20 > 0:44:22..hold the bracket where you want to.
0:44:22 > 0:44:24You simply push it in the hole...
0:44:26 > 0:44:30..and it will spray a burst of green chalk, showing you where to drill.
0:44:32 > 0:44:35The Marxman never touches the surface,
0:44:35 > 0:44:38therefore it won't clog up or dry out.
0:44:38 > 0:44:41Martin has also developed the deep hole Marxman,
0:44:41 > 0:44:45which is for the construction industry only,
0:44:45 > 0:44:49as it will not adequately mark a shallow hole.
0:44:49 > 0:44:52We have patent granted in the UK,
0:44:52 > 0:44:57Europe, China, and with America pending.
0:44:57 > 0:45:00We're proud to announce that on 16th March,
0:45:00 > 0:45:04we launched in all Wickes stores
0:45:04 > 0:45:08with an initial order of 5,760 units.
0:45:08 > 0:45:14Within the first month, we've received re-orders of 2,500 units.
0:45:14 > 0:45:19We would love to have a Dragon or Dragons on board in order to help us
0:45:19 > 0:45:22promote the product and sell it worldwide.
0:45:24 > 0:45:26Would anybody like to come and try?
0:45:28 > 0:45:31A quietly confident pitch from
0:45:31 > 0:45:33Martin Chard and Jenny David from London.
0:45:34 > 0:45:38They are hoping the Dragons will invest £50,000
0:45:38 > 0:45:42for a 20% stake in what they believe will become a tool box staple
0:45:42 > 0:45:43for builders and DIYers.
0:45:45 > 0:45:47But Peter Jones needs some convincing.
0:45:52 > 0:45:54Why wouldn't you just use a Sharpie?
0:45:56 > 0:45:58Because it doesn't mark...
0:45:58 > 0:46:01It dries out, and it clogs, and it doesn't last.
0:46:01 > 0:46:03It doesn't need to last, though, does it?
0:46:05 > 0:46:07Well, if you're somebody who does it day in, day out,
0:46:07 > 0:46:09and a lot of fixtures and fittings in a day,
0:46:09 > 0:46:11it most certainly does need to last.
0:46:11 > 0:46:14But what would be the difference to me using a Sharpie
0:46:14 > 0:46:17for something like this, that cost me less than £1?
0:46:17 > 0:46:20Because, on different thicknesses, I think it won't reach
0:46:20 > 0:46:22because that's about 40 mil.
0:46:22 > 0:46:25And on various surfaces, if you mark pebbledash
0:46:25 > 0:46:28- with any other pencil, or Sharpie... - You won't see it.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31I get your point, but actually, you want this to be mainstream.
0:46:31 > 0:46:34You want every builder to have one in their bag.
0:46:34 > 0:46:37- That's right.- Is every builder going to throw a little Sharpie in,
0:46:37 > 0:46:39or a pencil marker in?
0:46:39 > 0:46:42Well, up until now, they would have been doing exactly what you say.
0:46:42 > 0:46:43But once they've tried this,
0:46:43 > 0:46:45they will most certainly be wanting one of these,
0:46:45 > 0:46:47no matter what job they're doing.
0:46:47 > 0:46:49- You didn't hear what I was going to say.- Sorry.
0:46:55 > 0:47:00My question is, is every plumber in the country going to want to spend
0:47:00 > 0:47:04£10 on something, in the past, where it has cost them 20p...
0:47:04 > 0:47:06- Yes.- Yes.- ..to do the same thing?
0:47:06 > 0:47:08Because you can't always do the same thing using a pencil
0:47:08 > 0:47:11because occasionally you just can't get to mark that surface,
0:47:11 > 0:47:13and it's really frustrating.
0:47:13 > 0:47:15So it's quite a specialist...
0:47:15 > 0:47:17You've really got to like the invention, haven't you, then?
0:47:17 > 0:47:19No. No, I completely disagree,
0:47:19 > 0:47:24because we sell in Wickes roughly 57 a day.
0:47:24 > 0:47:2657 a day in how many stores?
0:47:26 > 0:47:28In excess of 200.
0:47:28 > 0:47:31For every four stores, they are selling one.
0:47:31 > 0:47:33- Yes.- You think that's good?
0:47:35 > 0:47:37I think that's excellent,
0:47:37 > 0:47:40considering that people won't go into the store looking for this.
0:47:40 > 0:47:42So people aren't aware of this product yet,
0:47:42 > 0:47:44we haven't put the advertising in,
0:47:44 > 0:47:46so they're pretty good odds for impulse buy.
0:47:50 > 0:47:52Top marks for the entrepreneurs,
0:47:52 > 0:47:54as they stand their ground with Peter Jones
0:47:54 > 0:47:57on the saleability of their product.
0:47:57 > 0:48:00Can they keep it up as Touker Suleyman gets down
0:48:00 > 0:48:01to some number crunching?
0:48:04 > 0:48:06So, what have you turned over in a full year?
0:48:06 > 0:48:0813,300 units.
0:48:08 > 0:48:11So what's that in pounds, shillings and pence, or pounds?
0:48:11 > 0:48:14We don't expect to make a profit this year.
0:48:14 > 0:48:16No, no. Sorry. What is the turnover?
0:48:16 > 0:48:20I'm sorry. I actually don't have that information in my head.
0:48:20 > 0:48:21I do apologise.
0:48:23 > 0:48:25So you sold 13,000.
0:48:25 > 0:48:28And how much, on average?
0:48:28 > 0:48:32- 4.76 is the average. - Yeah, 4.76 is the average.
0:48:32 > 0:48:36The recommended retail price is £9.95.
0:48:36 > 0:48:39And what was your investment to get to here so far?
0:48:39 > 0:48:41About 100 grand. 150-ish.
0:48:41 > 0:48:43- How much?! 100,000?- Yes.- Yeah.
0:48:46 > 0:48:50Well, because the patents themselves are 50, 55,000 already.
0:48:50 > 0:48:52- Wow, you've gone really... - We are not businesspeople.
0:48:52 > 0:48:54We started by doing the patent,
0:48:54 > 0:48:57we were told afterwards that we probably should have done
0:48:57 > 0:48:59a lot more market research first.
0:48:59 > 0:49:01- I think so.- But since then,
0:49:01 > 0:49:03we've done exhibitions with a lot of market research.
0:49:05 > 0:49:07So where did the 100,000 come from?
0:49:07 > 0:49:10Well, partly from inheritance that my wife got.
0:49:10 > 0:49:12Partly from an inheritance that I had.
0:49:12 > 0:49:14And partly from our lifetime of work,
0:49:14 > 0:49:16and spending the children's inheritance.
0:49:16 > 0:49:19So you've put your whole life behind this?
0:49:21 > 0:49:23- Yes.- Yeah.
0:49:26 > 0:49:29With so much riding on investment,
0:49:29 > 0:49:32the Den isn't the place for entrepreneurs to reveal big gaps
0:49:32 > 0:49:34in their business knowledge.
0:49:34 > 0:49:36That didn't go very well at all, did it?
0:49:37 > 0:49:41And it looks like alarm bells are ringing for Nick Jenkins.
0:49:46 > 0:49:48The issue for me, in some respects,
0:49:48 > 0:49:51is your understanding of the business.
0:49:51 > 0:49:53You need someone to come in and effectively run
0:49:53 > 0:49:55the commercial side of this.
0:49:55 > 0:49:58It makes it very different from a lot of investments,
0:49:58 > 0:50:01where I'm supporting an entrepreneur who maybe doesn't know everything
0:50:01 > 0:50:04right now but has the potential to really grow into that.
0:50:04 > 0:50:06And I would expect that this business,
0:50:06 > 0:50:10that I'd give them a bit of a helping hand and in a year or two,
0:50:10 > 0:50:12they're flying on their own.
0:50:12 > 0:50:13I think this is different.
0:50:13 > 0:50:17This is one where it would need ongoing support.
0:50:17 > 0:50:19That would be quite a big commitment on my part,
0:50:19 > 0:50:23to take that on, because that isn't going to be for the next year,
0:50:23 > 0:50:26that will be for the next two, three, four years.
0:50:28 > 0:50:29Hmm...
0:50:31 > 0:50:35Nick Jenkins is torn between the product's potential
0:50:35 > 0:50:39and the commitment it would take to grow its market.
0:50:39 > 0:50:42Will Deborah Meaden, with her ever-expanding
0:50:42 > 0:50:44tool investment portfolio,
0:50:44 > 0:50:46be more sure of Marxman's capacity for success?
0:50:48 > 0:50:50It's one of those things that people don't know they need
0:50:50 > 0:50:52until they actually see it.
0:50:54 > 0:50:56It is too expensive at the moment.
0:50:56 > 0:50:58You don't want people to think,
0:50:58 > 0:51:01you want people to be at that till thinking, "Oh, that's good."
0:51:01 > 0:51:05You know, no thought, and actually, at £10, people think.
0:51:05 > 0:51:07At £4.99, people don't think, they go,
0:51:07 > 0:51:09"That's a good idea. Let's try it."
0:51:09 > 0:51:13So I certainly think we could get that made at a much better price.
0:51:20 > 0:51:24How would you feel about somebody running the business for you,
0:51:24 > 0:51:26with you developing product? How would you feel about that?
0:51:26 > 0:51:29That would be our dream. That would be fantastic.
0:51:29 > 0:51:30It would be YOUR dream, yeah.
0:51:32 > 0:51:33Because I like it.
0:51:35 > 0:51:36Good.
0:51:37 > 0:51:39I'm going to make you an offer.
0:51:43 > 0:51:45So, I'm going to offer you all of the money.
0:51:48 > 0:51:50I want 30% of the business because
0:51:50 > 0:51:53I'm basically going to do the business bit for you.
0:51:53 > 0:51:54So that's my offer to you.
0:51:57 > 0:52:01Deborah Meaden can see a clear route to market, and what's more,
0:52:01 > 0:52:04she wants to come along for the ride.
0:52:04 > 0:52:08Has her approval swayed a previously teetering Nick Jenkins?
0:52:10 > 0:52:12I'm also going to make you an offer as well.
0:52:15 > 0:52:18You've been very, very open about what you want to get out of this.
0:52:18 > 0:52:19You want this to succeed
0:52:19 > 0:52:23and you are very happy for someone to come in and effectively take over
0:52:23 > 0:52:26the commercial side of this, which is what I think this really needs.
0:52:26 > 0:52:29So I'm going to match Deborah's offer...
0:52:33 > 0:52:34Thank you.
0:52:34 > 0:52:38..which is all of the money for 30% of the business.
0:52:38 > 0:52:39- Thank you.- Thank you.
0:52:42 > 0:52:45With two identical offers on the table,
0:52:45 > 0:52:48the entrepreneurs' shaky start is now a distant memory.
0:52:49 > 0:52:52Is Touker Suleyman also primed to invest?
0:52:54 > 0:52:58You've got a great product, you are great people,
0:52:58 > 0:53:00and you've got two offers.
0:53:04 > 0:53:07But in a funny way, you might need two Dragons for this.
0:53:10 > 0:53:11So, I'm very willing...
0:53:13 > 0:53:17..to make you an offer for half the money for 15%,
0:53:17 > 0:53:21and if another Dragon wants to come on, then there is two Dragons...
0:53:22 > 0:53:26..who would then give you much more time...
0:53:28 > 0:53:30..to make this work.
0:53:30 > 0:53:31Yeah.
0:53:34 > 0:53:37Touker Suleyman shakes things up with a
0:53:37 > 0:53:40two-Dragons-for-the-price-of-one proposal,
0:53:40 > 0:53:43but it requires another Dragon to take him up on his offer.
0:53:45 > 0:53:49In terms of the product, I think it is absolutely brilliant.
0:53:49 > 0:53:52The genius of it, of course, is the deep hole.
0:53:52 > 0:53:53Erm...
0:53:55 > 0:53:56I can't not make you an offer.
0:54:00 > 0:54:04You are going to need quite a lot of help.
0:54:04 > 0:54:07I do think in this case that two Dragons could really help you
0:54:07 > 0:54:08on the journey.
0:54:10 > 0:54:13So I would also like to make you an offer...
0:54:15 > 0:54:19Half of the money with another Dragon for 15% of the business.
0:54:19 > 0:54:21- Thank you.- Thank you very much.
0:54:23 > 0:54:25A quartet of offers,
0:54:25 > 0:54:30as Sarah Willingham pledges to go 50-50 with another Dragon.
0:54:30 > 0:54:35Will Peter Jones have had a change of heart over his earlier concerns
0:54:35 > 0:54:37and put a deal with Marxman in his sights?
0:54:40 > 0:54:42You've done well, haven't you?
0:54:42 > 0:54:43It seems so.
0:54:43 > 0:54:45Yeah.
0:54:45 > 0:54:48I think the important thing is that you get the Dragon that best matches
0:54:48 > 0:54:50you and where you want to go.
0:54:59 > 0:55:01So I'm going to offer you all of the money as well.
0:55:07 > 0:55:09But I'm only going to ask for 25%.
0:55:12 > 0:55:14Thank you.
0:55:17 > 0:55:18We now need to talk to the wall.
0:55:27 > 0:55:30Peter Jones puts the cat amongst the pigeons by undercutting
0:55:30 > 0:55:33his rival Dragons with a lower-equity offer.
0:55:35 > 0:55:38Which leaves the entrepreneurs with a difficult choice -
0:55:38 > 0:55:41Nick Jenkins or Deborah Meaden and 30%,
0:55:41 > 0:55:46a potential Suleyman-Willingham double-header at 15% each,
0:55:46 > 0:55:50or Peter Jones at that lower offer of 25%.
0:55:53 > 0:55:56OK. It was what I wanted when we came in.
0:55:56 > 0:55:58OK? Go ahead?
0:56:07 > 0:56:10Deborah, we'd very much like to accept your offer.
0:56:10 > 0:56:12Yes! Oh, I'm so pleased!
0:56:12 > 0:56:15Do you know, I genuinely, genuinely, I'm so pleased,
0:56:15 > 0:56:18because I'm sitting there trying not to look excited
0:56:18 > 0:56:21because I don't want to tell them how excited I am,
0:56:21 > 0:56:23but I'm so excited.
0:56:23 > 0:56:26Martin and Jenny leave with £50,000,
0:56:26 > 0:56:29a Dragon with an extensive contacts book...
0:56:29 > 0:56:30Brilliant.
0:56:30 > 0:56:33..and that all-important recognition they came in for.
0:56:34 > 0:56:37My God!
0:56:37 > 0:56:38Here goes.
0:56:39 > 0:56:42Yeah, head held high, which is lovely.
0:56:42 > 0:56:44I've felt stupid my whole life,
0:56:44 > 0:56:46so I don't need to feel stupid about this.
0:56:46 > 0:56:48We did well.
0:56:48 > 0:56:51- I'm really chuffed. - Yeah, proud of you.
0:56:51 > 0:56:52- Thank you.- Nice one.
0:57:00 > 0:57:02You probably knew it already,
0:57:02 > 0:57:05but the Dragons have again shown that pitching in the Den
0:57:05 > 0:57:09can be tough, but it can also ultimately be rewarding.
0:57:09 > 0:57:12Martin Chard and Jenny David proved that it's not always
0:57:12 > 0:57:15about exuberance or showmanship.
0:57:15 > 0:57:19Their quiet, passionate commitment led to offers from all five Dragons,
0:57:19 > 0:57:22and finally a deal with Deborah Meaden.
0:57:24 > 0:57:26Coming up next time...
0:57:26 > 0:57:28The conversation is not for later,
0:57:28 > 0:57:30the conversation is now.
0:57:32 > 0:57:34You know my answer.
0:57:34 > 0:57:35Yeah.
0:57:36 > 0:57:39- I'm not prepared to do that today... - No.- Pardon?
0:57:39 > 0:57:41- That's not the right answer. - That's not the right answer?
0:57:41 > 0:57:45What are you going to do if you don't get investment?
0:57:45 > 0:57:46It's not going to work.
0:57:46 > 0:57:48I'm going to make you an offer.
0:57:48 > 0:57:50I think I might pitch in with an offer as well.
0:57:50 > 0:57:53I'm going to make you an offer, and it's definitely an offer
0:57:53 > 0:57:54that I think you should accept.
0:57:54 > 0:57:57- Next!- Well, that went well.