0:00:02 > 0:00:08The Dragons are back and they're all fired up to build on their empires.
0:00:08 > 0:00:10I think we've got a winner.
0:00:11 > 0:00:12Now, be careful what you say.
0:00:14 > 0:00:18But which of the entrepreneurs will show true grit?
0:00:18 > 0:00:21You're very, very competent and presentable and determined.
0:00:21 > 0:00:23You've got a great product.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26- You're great. - Who will be on shaky ground?
0:00:26 > 0:00:28You've made a fatal error.
0:00:28 > 0:00:29How many have you sold, John?
0:00:29 > 0:00:32I haven't actually sold any.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35Who will rock the foundations of the Den?
0:00:35 > 0:00:37I am honestly, genuinely stunned.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40- You've gone 30, 25... - Cos I don't want you to have it!
0:00:41 > 0:00:44Who will cement a lucrative partnership?
0:00:44 > 0:00:47- I'm the Dragon for you. - I think you've got a great product.
0:00:47 > 0:00:49I'm going to make you an offer.
0:00:49 > 0:00:50But I'm going to be greedy.
0:00:53 > 0:00:56And who will buckle under the pressure of the Den?
0:00:56 > 0:00:58I am so sorry, but I am going to pass out.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01I don't know why. I'm seeing only black.
0:01:35 > 0:01:40Welcome to Dragons' Den, back in business and fierier than ever.
0:01:40 > 0:01:42We have a new batch of nervous entrepreneurs
0:01:42 > 0:01:45desperate to impress the formidable Dragons,
0:01:45 > 0:01:47putting the finishing touches
0:01:47 > 0:01:50to what they hope will be the elevator pitch of a lifetime.
0:01:53 > 0:01:56First into the Den is John Boff,
0:01:56 > 0:02:00a former bricklayer who is hoping to build a relationship with a Dragon.
0:02:00 > 0:02:03HE SIGHS
0:02:04 > 0:02:08This opportunity today is probably the biggest moment of my life,
0:02:08 > 0:02:11other than marrying my wife,
0:02:11 > 0:02:13and a little bit scary, to be honest with you.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22Hello, Dragons. My name's John Boff and I'm the proud owner
0:02:22 > 0:02:24of the adjustable mortarboard.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28I'm here today for £25,000 investment
0:02:28 > 0:02:31for 15% equity within the company.
0:02:31 > 0:02:34Having worked in the construction industry for over 38 years,
0:02:34 > 0:02:37and 27 of those years actively working as a bricklayer,
0:02:37 > 0:02:41I personally know the stress and strains this trade has on your body.
0:02:41 > 0:02:45Traditionally, bricklayers will get bricks, stack them,
0:02:45 > 0:02:47then put a wooden mortarboard on there.
0:02:47 > 0:02:50It was only when we were building an extension on my house,
0:02:50 > 0:02:53and with my wife being actively involved in doing the building work
0:02:53 > 0:02:55with me, she questioned what was I doing.
0:02:55 > 0:02:58When I explained it's to try and get it up as high as I can
0:02:58 > 0:02:59to stop the bending so much.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02She simply said, "Well, isn't there anything to attach this
0:03:02 > 0:03:04"to a scaffolding that could be easily adjusted?"
0:03:04 > 0:03:07And that's when the adjustable mortarboard was born.
0:03:07 > 0:03:11We designed, manufactured a bracket that would fit all types of
0:03:11 > 0:03:14scaffolding and could be easily adjusted up and down to suit
0:03:14 > 0:03:16the individual bricklayer's heights.
0:03:16 > 0:03:18We put it on trial at Swansea University campus,
0:03:18 > 0:03:20and it was a fantastic result.
0:03:20 > 0:03:22It turned out, using the EcoSpot,
0:03:22 > 0:03:25reduced musculoskeletal injuries by 70%.
0:03:25 > 0:03:27Plus, everybody says to me,
0:03:27 > 0:03:30"How come nobody's thought of it before?"
0:03:30 > 0:03:33Would any of you Dragons care to try and have a go?
0:03:33 > 0:03:34- I would. Yeah, I would. - Do we get to lay a brick?
0:03:34 > 0:03:36I'll have a go.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39A solid pitch from John Boff,
0:03:39 > 0:03:41offering an adjustable mortarboard
0:03:41 > 0:03:43to make bricklaying less backbreaking.
0:03:44 > 0:03:46- Is that right?- Yes.
0:03:46 > 0:03:47- Is that right or not?- Yes, yes.
0:03:47 > 0:03:49No, it's very good for your first effort.
0:03:49 > 0:03:50SHE LAUGHS
0:03:50 > 0:03:55The ex-brickie is looking for £25,000...
0:03:55 > 0:03:57- Oh, dear.- Don't worry.- Never mind.
0:03:57 > 0:04:00..in exchange for 15% of his company.
0:04:00 > 0:04:03An average bricklayer will bend down 2,000 times
0:04:03 > 0:04:05to retrieve mortar alone.
0:04:05 > 0:04:08- Yeah, I feel that on my back already.- There you go.
0:04:08 > 0:04:10- I think we've got a winner. - Now, be careful what you say
0:04:10 > 0:04:12- because that's... - No, no, I didn't mean it like that.
0:04:12 > 0:04:14Yeah, no, I think you'll find that you...
0:04:14 > 0:04:16Keep all your options open.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18No, no, I didn't mean it like that!
0:04:18 > 0:04:21- I'd say everyone done very well there.- Yeah.
0:04:22 > 0:04:24With its test run concluded,
0:04:24 > 0:04:29Peter Jones is ready to lay down his initial thoughts on the product.
0:04:30 > 0:04:33I mean, basically it looks like a massive paella, doesn't it?
0:04:35 > 0:04:36Yes, it's a spot board.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39- Yeah.- Yeah. And the idea, it's round so people don't walk
0:04:39 > 0:04:42- into the edges of it.- No, I think roundness is really good.
0:04:42 > 0:04:46Why wouldn't you just have that on taller legs?
0:04:47 > 0:04:50Cos people trip over it. It's a trip hazard as well.
0:04:50 > 0:04:52- How many have you got? - We've got 90 at the moment.
0:04:52 > 0:04:56- 90?- Yeah. - So, how many have you sold, John?
0:04:56 > 0:04:58We... I... I haven't actually sold any.
0:05:00 > 0:05:02I've got them out on a hire basis.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05It doesn't sound a lot. But we hire them out for a pound a day, and then
0:05:05 > 0:05:06the construction companies hold them,
0:05:06 > 0:05:09and then when they've finished, they off-hire them,
0:05:09 > 0:05:11we take them back to the house, get them cleaned down,
0:05:11 > 0:05:14and then they're re-sprayed up and transferred on.
0:05:14 > 0:05:16And that's all done at our house.
0:05:16 > 0:05:17- A pound?- I know.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20Only a pound. I'm just thinking to myself...
0:05:20 > 0:05:22- Why not more?- Why not £2?
0:05:22 > 0:05:25Don't you think that a pound a day is cheap?
0:05:25 > 0:05:26It's deliberately cheap
0:05:26 > 0:05:28because I want to get it out on the marketplace.
0:05:29 > 0:05:31OK, so how much money have you made, John?
0:05:31 > 0:05:34What's been your revenue in your first year of trading?
0:05:34 > 0:05:37Well, right, OK. You need to just understand I work full-time
0:05:37 > 0:05:39at the moment as a senior construction manager,
0:05:39 > 0:05:42and this is done purely through evenings and on weekends.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46No, John, this sounds to me that this might be a justification
0:05:46 > 0:05:49- for a really low number.- Well, it's... £20,000 was our turnover.
0:05:49 > 0:05:51You've turned over £20,000?
0:05:51 > 0:05:53Yeah.
0:05:53 > 0:05:54Wow.
0:05:56 > 0:06:00Peter Jones is stunned that hiring out John's boards
0:06:00 > 0:06:03reaps such big cash rewards.
0:06:03 > 0:06:06Deborah Meaden has a track record in backing products
0:06:06 > 0:06:09in the building industry. Is this another chance
0:06:09 > 0:06:12to lay the foundations of a successful partnership?
0:06:15 > 0:06:19- This is not a DIY-style product at all, is it?- No, no, it's not.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23- It's not.- So, your individual bricklayer, I completely get,
0:06:23 > 0:06:25is never going to put their hands in their pockets and say,
0:06:25 > 0:06:27- "Here you are, you know, I'm going to..."- They're not.
0:06:27 > 0:06:30- I wouldn't... I wouldn't. - Of course you wouldn't.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33But the big construction companies, they spend fortunes,
0:06:33 > 0:06:35so why would you not think about selling them these?
0:06:36 > 0:06:38If that's a good idea, I'm open to sell them.
0:06:38 > 0:06:42The only reason I have withheld the thought of selling them is -
0:06:42 > 0:06:44A, the cost. I wouldn't really want to pay that much.
0:06:46 > 0:06:48And, B, how long they last.
0:06:48 > 0:06:50If I sold one of those boards there and a bracket,
0:06:50 > 0:06:53you're probably looking seven or eight years before you're probably
0:06:53 > 0:06:55looking to do anything back and get another one.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59So, on a building site that, for instance, is building
0:06:59 > 0:07:02200, 300 houses, how many of these would be needed?
0:07:02 > 0:07:04You're looking about 40 bricklayers.
0:07:06 > 0:07:09The Den's queen of construction, Deborah Meaden,
0:07:09 > 0:07:12senses an opportunity to establish a market
0:07:12 > 0:07:14for the entrepreneur's product.
0:07:14 > 0:07:19Now Tej Lalvani wants to know if John's protected his potentially
0:07:19 > 0:07:20ground-breaking invention.
0:07:22 > 0:07:24I'd like to find out have you got a patent on this?
0:07:24 > 0:07:27The design's registered for an adjustable mortarboard.
0:07:27 > 0:07:29So you haven't got a patent?
0:07:29 > 0:07:31The design's patent is registered, yes.
0:07:31 > 0:07:33So the design registration, as you know, doesn't really cover it.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35You know, someone else could come with a different type of base.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37They could come, instead of a tripod, four-leg base.
0:07:37 > 0:07:40It's an adjustable, it's designed for the adjustable mortarboard.
0:07:40 > 0:07:43So, someone could make an adjustable one but just looked different,
0:07:43 > 0:07:45and they could bypass your design registration.
0:07:45 > 0:07:48Not under my understanding. I might be misunderstood.
0:07:48 > 0:07:50- Yeah, a patent can protect... - My understanding was
0:07:50 > 0:07:53I've registered the design of an adjustable mortarboard,
0:07:53 > 0:07:55and they've taken, sort of...
0:07:55 > 0:07:59In the patent is the board itself being adjusted,
0:07:59 > 0:08:01and that's what we've got protected.
0:08:01 > 0:08:04- Yeah, I think if you change... - In my understanding.- Yeah,
0:08:04 > 0:08:08- I think you're not as protected as you probably think.- Right.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10- And I share Tej's concerns. - I've got it there if you want
0:08:10 > 0:08:13- to have a look to see what... - I wouldn't mind just having...
0:08:13 > 0:08:15I wouldn't mind understanding what...
0:08:15 > 0:08:18Cos you feel very confident about your protection.
0:08:18 > 0:08:20- If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. - Don't worry.
0:08:20 > 0:08:22- I'd like to put it right if... - I know. I want to be really...
0:08:22 > 0:08:24I want to be clear on what you've got so...
0:08:24 > 0:08:25Yeah. Yeah. You're the experts.
0:08:28 > 0:08:32Lack of a concrete patent could be a deal-breaker in the Den.
0:08:34 > 0:08:37But, while John awaits his fate on the paperwork,
0:08:37 > 0:08:39Peter Jones has a confession.
0:08:41 > 0:08:43When you first came in and demonstrated this,
0:08:43 > 0:08:47I almost thought it was bizarre and it was going to be a bit of fun.
0:08:47 > 0:08:50I can't believe I'm about to say this,
0:08:50 > 0:08:52but it clearly does...it works.
0:08:52 > 0:08:56My personal sense about all of this is that this idea and concept
0:08:56 > 0:09:00lives or dies by the protection you believe you've got.
0:09:01 > 0:09:04If you have a patent that gives you full protection on that,
0:09:04 > 0:09:07this could change the construction industry forever.
0:09:07 > 0:09:09I think you could have a highly valuable business.
0:09:11 > 0:09:14So, I'm going to sit quietly and just listen to Deborah's verdict.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16OK.
0:09:22 > 0:09:27Uh, so, it is a straight certificate of registration of design.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30It's not in any way a patent.
0:09:31 > 0:09:36It is very specific over the design of that particular...
0:09:36 > 0:09:38- Right.- ..way of doing it.
0:09:38 > 0:09:42And I have a feeling that you could be the person who invented
0:09:42 > 0:09:45the next big safety thing for building sites
0:09:45 > 0:09:49who doesn't make a lot of money out of it.
0:09:50 > 0:09:51Oh, this is a real lesson.
0:09:51 > 0:09:53This is a real, real lesson.
0:09:53 > 0:09:55Why did you not go down the patent route?
0:09:55 > 0:09:58It's not too late. I thought I had safe...safeguarded it.
0:09:58 > 0:10:00Well, it is too late because it's out in the public domain.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03- Right, OK.- Sadly, I don't think you're going to be the one
0:10:03 > 0:10:05who makes the big money out of this.
0:10:06 > 0:10:09- OK.- That helps me make up my mind, John.
0:10:10 > 0:10:13Hearing that from Deborah is a blow, isn't it?
0:10:13 > 0:10:16- Yeah.- So, sadly, John,
0:10:16 > 0:10:18I'm going to have to say that that's one of the reasons why...
0:10:20 > 0:10:23- ..I'm going to make you an offer. - Oh, brilliant.
0:10:24 > 0:10:25I'm going to offer you...
0:10:27 > 0:10:28..part of the money...
0:10:32 > 0:10:35..because I think if you had several Dragons, it could work.
0:10:35 > 0:10:36But I think it's more than that.
0:10:36 > 0:10:38I do think that you've got an opportunity
0:10:38 > 0:10:40of putting several thousand of these
0:10:40 > 0:10:42into the construction industry,
0:10:42 > 0:10:45and that means that I would get my money back very quickly,
0:10:45 > 0:10:47and I've got pretty much low risk.
0:10:47 > 0:10:48So, I'm going to offer you...
0:10:50 > 0:10:54..£5,000 of your 25 that you need...
0:10:55 > 0:10:58..for 7.5% of your business.
0:11:03 > 0:11:06Peter Jones rescues the pitch from near disaster,
0:11:06 > 0:11:08proposing a split deal.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12But John needs the rest of the Dragons
0:11:12 > 0:11:15to match his £5,000 bid to make it work.
0:11:15 > 0:11:18Will Touker Suleyman help engineer a deal?
0:11:19 > 0:11:23John, I think you need a break, and you're good.
0:11:23 > 0:11:25- OK.- And, in my view...
0:11:26 > 0:11:28..I could quite easily say, "I'll give you all the money."
0:11:28 > 0:11:33But I would join with Peter, I'd also put up £5,000 for 7.5%.
0:11:36 > 0:11:39Touker Suleyman matches Peter Jones's offer.
0:11:39 > 0:11:43The investment is coming together with £10,000
0:11:43 > 0:11:46of the 25,000 John needs.
0:11:46 > 0:11:51But will the remaining three Dragons be in the mood to indulge in
0:11:51 > 0:11:53some constructive capitalism?
0:11:54 > 0:11:58John, I too could offer the whole money and would kind of love that
0:11:58 > 0:11:59as well.
0:11:59 > 0:12:02But I think there's something really powerful about putting more
0:12:02 > 0:12:04Dragons behind this for everything that they bring.
0:12:05 > 0:12:09So, I will join the merry team of Dragons and offer you £5,000
0:12:09 > 0:12:11for 7.5%.
0:12:12 > 0:12:14Thank you.
0:12:14 > 0:12:18- Hi, John.- Hi.- I think that you'd be a delight to work with.
0:12:18 > 0:12:20Your passionate energy. You believe in this product.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24And I think that's a great sign.
0:12:26 > 0:12:28I'd like to make you an offer too. I'd like to offer you...
0:12:30 > 0:12:32..5,000 for 7.5%.
0:12:33 > 0:12:34Thank you.
0:12:37 > 0:12:39With four equal bids,
0:12:39 > 0:12:41John just needs Deborah Meaden
0:12:41 > 0:12:44to complete the dream team of five Dragons.
0:12:45 > 0:12:48But is she willing to make it a full house?
0:12:50 > 0:12:54I sometimes think the power of more Dragons is very, very powerful.
0:12:55 > 0:12:57But in this instance, I don't.
0:12:58 > 0:13:00You need to speak to the people
0:13:00 > 0:13:04who make decisions all day, every day on those sites
0:13:04 > 0:13:06about how they're going to run them.
0:13:06 > 0:13:10I have businesses that are in there with products on test right now,
0:13:10 > 0:13:12all of the big builders.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14Right.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17So, I'm going to make you an offer, but I'm going to be greedy.
0:13:19 > 0:13:21It's for all of the money.
0:13:29 > 0:13:33And I want 35% of the business.
0:13:37 > 0:13:42Deborah Meaden wrecks the plan for a five-Dragons deal by going it alone
0:13:42 > 0:13:45and undercutting her rivals.
0:13:45 > 0:13:48It's put John in a tricky spot.
0:13:48 > 0:13:51He's got a rock-solid individual offer,
0:13:51 > 0:13:53but the joint proposal's falling apart.
0:13:53 > 0:13:56At the moment, I've got two offers, as far as I understand.
0:13:56 > 0:14:00It's clearly not working cos the rest don't add up to the money.
0:14:00 > 0:14:03So, John, as we don't have a complete team of Dragons
0:14:03 > 0:14:05wanting to share this,
0:14:05 > 0:14:09I propose that we split this now between four Dragons.
0:14:09 > 0:14:11- Yes, I would.- I would, yeah.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15- Yeah.- Why do you want more?
0:14:15 > 0:14:17Well, to have one is fantastic.
0:14:17 > 0:14:19Thank you all very much to start off with, OK?
0:14:19 > 0:14:21So, to have more is just like everybody's dream if you come
0:14:21 > 0:14:24- into the Den.- But it isn't, is it? That's my point.- Yeah, yeah.
0:14:24 > 0:14:26I'm worried now.
0:14:26 > 0:14:29- No, don't, don't be worried. - Go and talk to the wall.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31- I don't want to sway you. - No, no, no, I've got no interest
0:14:31 > 0:14:33in talking to the wall.
0:14:35 > 0:14:39John's seen enough brick walls and prefers to make a tough decision
0:14:39 > 0:14:42while looking the Dragons in the eye.
0:14:42 > 0:14:46Will he opt for the power of four investors,
0:14:46 > 0:14:49or just one that's well-connected in the building trade?
0:14:51 > 0:14:53I'm really torn here.
0:14:53 > 0:14:56Really, so you all know, this isn't like, "Oh, it's an easy decision."
0:14:56 > 0:14:59And it's a life-changing decision, as far as I'm concerned.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02It's not done lightly. You know,
0:15:02 > 0:15:06I respect every single Dragon that's in here, and I'd be foolish not to.
0:15:11 > 0:15:13But if the offer is that...
0:15:16 > 0:15:17..I'd take Deborah, please.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21Good. Good.
0:15:24 > 0:15:26- I'm so pleased.- Thank you very much.
0:15:26 > 0:15:27- I'm so pleased.- Thank you.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30- Well done, John.- Sorry, everybody. - Good luck.
0:15:30 > 0:15:31- Well done, John.- Cheerio!
0:15:31 > 0:15:33SHE LAUGHS
0:15:33 > 0:15:37After nearly 30 years laying bricks on building sites,
0:15:37 > 0:15:42John leaves the Den with £25,000 in his back pocket to take his
0:15:42 > 0:15:45adjustable mortarboard to new heights.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48I thought... Until that point, I thought he had his mind right.
0:15:48 > 0:15:50I don't think that was the right decision.
0:15:50 > 0:15:52Oh, shut up! Well, I don't agree.
0:15:54 > 0:15:56I feel absolutely over the moon.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58I can't stop smiling.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03I can't believe it. I can't wait to tell my wife!
0:16:11 > 0:16:13Next to face the Dragons
0:16:13 > 0:16:17is entrepreneur and mother of two Colleen Wong from London
0:16:17 > 0:16:20with a business creation that's close to her heart.
0:16:20 > 0:16:25This is my third baby, and so it's something I'm really proud of.
0:16:26 > 0:16:30Being a mum and running a start-up, the two go hand-in-hand.
0:16:30 > 0:16:33It's multitasking and having no sleep.
0:16:42 > 0:16:44Hello, Dragons. My name is Colleen Wong
0:16:44 > 0:16:48and I'm the founder of Techsixtyfour.
0:16:48 > 0:16:51It was about 18 months ago I took my two little kids to a farm park
0:16:51 > 0:16:55and I witnessed a mum running around looking everywhere for her son.
0:16:55 > 0:16:58So, I thought to myself, "Oh, my goodness, that could have been me.
0:16:58 > 0:17:03"And why are we not more connected to our younger children?"
0:17:03 > 0:17:05My solution is the Gator Watch.
0:17:05 > 0:17:06It's this watch here.
0:17:06 > 0:17:09So, it looks like a watch, but it actually makes and
0:17:09 > 0:17:12receives calls from up to ten trusted numbers.
0:17:12 > 0:17:14It's also a tracker.
0:17:14 > 0:17:17It has no access to the internet, social media, or games.
0:17:17 > 0:17:22Last year, in the fall, I began to work with a technology distributor,
0:17:22 > 0:17:26and my Gator Watch is now sold at Bentalls in Kingston,
0:17:26 > 0:17:28on Amazon and John Lewis online.
0:17:30 > 0:17:32The watch retails for £99...
0:17:33 > 0:17:35..and there's also a service plan with it.
0:17:35 > 0:17:37It's £9 a month on an annual contract,
0:17:37 > 0:17:40or £11 a month without a contract.
0:17:40 > 0:17:46Today, I'm looking for £100,000 of investment for 5% of my business.
0:17:46 > 0:17:49I'd like to give you all a Gator Watch, if that's all right,
0:17:49 > 0:17:50to take a look at.
0:17:52 > 0:17:57Hoping her product has the bite to snare a Dragon is Colleen Wong.
0:17:57 > 0:18:03- Thank you.- She's seeking £100,000 for 5% of her children's watch,
0:18:03 > 0:18:04phone and tracker.
0:18:05 > 0:18:09Retail expert Touker Suleyman is first to explore
0:18:09 > 0:18:11what makes the business tick.
0:18:13 > 0:18:18When did you get the idea, and how did you execute the samples?
0:18:18 > 0:18:21So, I had the idea in September of 2015,
0:18:21 > 0:18:24and I knew that it would cost an extreme amount of money
0:18:24 > 0:18:27to design a product from scratch.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31And so I picked one manufacturer in China and I began working with them.
0:18:31 > 0:18:34- £2 million valuation on it?- Yes.
0:18:35 > 0:18:39I'm assuming you have some IP, or something very unique,
0:18:39 > 0:18:40to create such a valuation.
0:18:41 > 0:18:44Because I had gone to a manufacturer who had manufactured this product...
0:18:44 > 0:18:46- Right.- OK?- They own the IP.
0:18:48 > 0:18:50Right, you don't own the IP?
0:18:50 > 0:18:51Not for this, no.
0:18:53 > 0:18:54After speaking to IP lawyers,
0:18:54 > 0:18:58I realised that once a product is already out in the marketplace,
0:18:58 > 0:19:00you can no longer obtain the IP for it.
0:19:00 > 0:19:04This was a product... So, for example, wearable GPS tracker,
0:19:04 > 0:19:07that's also a phone, was already in the market.
0:19:09 > 0:19:11And you've sold how many so far, in total?
0:19:11 > 0:19:14- 400.- 400...- Slightly over 400.
0:19:14 > 0:19:15..at £99?
0:19:15 > 0:19:18So, costs, how much?
0:19:18 > 0:19:21So, it costs 55, so it works out to be about just under £50.
0:19:22 > 0:19:24Already there's a problem.
0:19:25 > 0:19:26If your cost is 50...
0:19:27 > 0:19:29..and you're retailing at 99,
0:19:29 > 0:19:32another retailer would want to pay 37, 38,
0:19:32 > 0:19:3640 for it, so already you can't wholesale it.
0:19:38 > 0:19:40It's a shaky start for Colleen
0:19:40 > 0:19:44as Touker Suleyman exposes the limitations of her sales model.
0:19:46 > 0:19:50But dad-of-two Tej Lalvani is more interested in how smart
0:19:50 > 0:19:52the child-friendly watch is.
0:19:54 > 0:19:57- Is it waterproof?- It's splash proof.
0:19:57 > 0:19:58So, a kid can't use it in a swimming pool?
0:19:58 > 0:20:00- No.- OK.- But he can...
0:20:00 > 0:20:02- OK, so a bit of rain... Rain, we're protected.- Rain is fine.
0:20:02 > 0:20:05- Yeah.- And can it receive text messages?- No.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08So, when you said that there's a data plan on it,
0:20:08 > 0:20:11- what's the data plan for?- It's for GPS tracking and Wi-Fi tracking.
0:20:11 > 0:20:14So you can't send a message to your kid if you want them to read it?
0:20:14 > 0:20:15No.
0:20:19 > 0:20:23You've made a fatal error walking into this Den
0:20:23 > 0:20:25with a £2 million valuation.
0:20:27 > 0:20:30I think not only does it say a lot about the company,
0:20:30 > 0:20:32but it says a lot about you.
0:20:33 > 0:20:38And that makes me unsure about you as a person to invest in.
0:20:42 > 0:20:46A bitter blow for Colleen as Tej Lalvani hands out
0:20:46 > 0:20:49a damning assessment of her company price tag.
0:20:49 > 0:20:54A subject that has also rendered Deborah Meaden a little dumbfounded.
0:20:56 > 0:20:59I'm a bit stunned by the £2 million valuation.
0:20:59 > 0:21:01Peter, can I ask you,
0:21:01 > 0:21:05how long would it take me to find somebody to just go and buy these
0:21:05 > 0:21:08and do the same sort of deal?
0:21:08 > 0:21:10- By the end of tomorrow? - By the end of tomorrow.
0:21:10 > 0:21:13- So there's no barrier to entry?- No.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19If I could explain the reason for my 2 million valuation.
0:21:21 > 0:21:23So, I work closely with my distributor,
0:21:23 > 0:21:28and we've worked together to determine what our forecasts are
0:21:28 > 0:21:30for sales up till the end of the year.
0:21:30 > 0:21:33But I'm going to have to stop you here.
0:21:33 > 0:21:35I'm really... I am honestly, genuinely stunned.
0:21:38 > 0:21:44You are forecasting in markets that I can get into just like that.
0:21:44 > 0:21:48Peter's telling me I could get this product by end of play tomorrow.
0:21:51 > 0:21:53It's actually a bit of a cheeky valuation.
0:21:57 > 0:22:02Valuations are a combination of either track record,
0:22:02 > 0:22:04barriers to entry,
0:22:04 > 0:22:08you can do something much faster than I could possibly ever do it,
0:22:08 > 0:22:12IP that says you can't even enter this market without me.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15Which bit of that have you got?
0:22:18 > 0:22:21Well, I've been working with my manufacturer in China,
0:22:21 > 0:22:24and he's seeing that the brand is growing here in the UK.
0:22:25 > 0:22:29We've come to an agreement that we are going to join together
0:22:29 > 0:22:33- and jointly own the IP. - Sorry, the brand is growing.
0:22:33 > 0:22:35You've sold 400 watches.
0:22:35 > 0:22:37But you value your business at £2 million,
0:22:37 > 0:22:40which I'm getting more annoyed as I even say it.
0:22:42 > 0:22:44Deborah Meaden takes exception
0:22:44 > 0:22:47to the company's seven-figure valuation.
0:22:48 > 0:22:51Now Jenny Campbell wants to know
0:22:51 > 0:22:54how vital Colleen is to the business set-up.
0:22:56 > 0:22:57Can I just understand,
0:22:57 > 0:22:59you've got the manufacturer in China owns the IP.
0:22:59 > 0:23:01Why do they need you?
0:23:01 > 0:23:03What do you add to that?
0:23:03 > 0:23:06Because the manufacturer doesn't speak English.
0:23:06 > 0:23:09- And you speak Chinese? - I speak fluent Chinese, yes.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13OK, all right. So you're a linchpin in terms of making that happen?
0:23:13 > 0:23:17- Yes.- OK.- There's a little USP, but it is replicable.
0:23:17 > 0:23:21- Obviously.- Of course.- You talked about jointly sharing the IP
0:23:21 > 0:23:24with the Chinese manufacturer.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28Well, I worked with them to improve the design, to improve the app,
0:23:28 > 0:23:33and so I do have a letter of intent from the Chinese manufacturer.
0:23:33 > 0:23:34OK.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38Could there be traction in the pitch after all,
0:23:38 > 0:23:42as Jenny Campbell uncovers the entrepreneur's evolving
0:23:42 > 0:23:44relationship with her partners?
0:23:45 > 0:23:49Time for tech giant Peter Jones to reveal whether there's a place
0:23:49 > 0:23:51for the gadget in his business empire.
0:23:54 > 0:23:56I don't really know what more to say,
0:23:56 > 0:23:58because it's the first time,
0:23:58 > 0:24:00I think, this has happened in the Den.
0:24:01 > 0:24:05I don't know whether you realise, but you have actually nothing.
0:24:08 > 0:24:10Literally nothing.
0:24:13 > 0:24:17There's over 120 different products of this variant.
0:24:17 > 0:24:21My offices in Hong Kong have over 30 of these types of products.
0:24:21 > 0:24:25What you've done is you've taken a manufacturer and you've arranged to
0:24:25 > 0:24:27have agreement that you could sell their product.
0:24:27 > 0:24:30You've become now a glorified sales agent.
0:24:32 > 0:24:35And then you've introduced a distributor into the margin chain.
0:24:36 > 0:24:37If that's the case...
0:24:37 > 0:24:41But it's a winning situation for myself as well to be able
0:24:41 > 0:24:43to test that this product does sell.
0:24:46 > 0:24:50- Is that wrong?- No. No, it's great for you because you've got a job.
0:24:50 > 0:24:52But you haven't got a business.
0:24:56 > 0:25:00I don't feel like I'm a glorified sales agent.
0:25:00 > 0:25:02You know, the relationships that I've built
0:25:02 > 0:25:04with the manufacturer,
0:25:04 > 0:25:06and with their willingness
0:25:06 > 0:25:08to want to work together with me in the future.
0:25:08 > 0:25:11In the future, but you're asking for investment today in a business which
0:25:11 > 0:25:15doesn't exist. You're asking for us to value your sales skills
0:25:15 > 0:25:17at £2 million.
0:25:19 > 0:25:20That's why I'm saying I'm out.
0:25:22 > 0:25:25Peter Jones imparts his devastating verdict
0:25:25 > 0:25:28on the entrepreneur's business opportunity.
0:25:29 > 0:25:34And more bad news is on its way as Deborah Meaden revisits that thorny
0:25:34 > 0:25:37issue of how much Colleen thinks her company's worth.
0:25:38 > 0:25:41You're so off the scale on your valuation
0:25:41 > 0:25:44that it is a bit worrying about
0:25:44 > 0:25:46how you're going to run the rest of the business.
0:25:46 > 0:25:50OK. Another part of the valuation that I've been, you know,
0:25:50 > 0:25:55told to look at are similar companies and their valuations.
0:25:55 > 0:25:57So, a company by the name of Tinitell...
0:25:57 > 0:26:00- Yeah.- They do a wearable mobile phone and tracker as well.
0:26:00 > 0:26:03- Yeah.- And three years ago, at prototype stage,
0:26:03 > 0:26:06- they were valued at 6 million. - Yeah.
0:26:06 > 0:26:08Did they own any IP?
0:26:08 > 0:26:09- Yes, they did.- Yeah.
0:26:11 > 0:26:12Were they first to market?
0:26:13 > 0:26:16- They were one of the first to market, yes.- Tick.
0:26:18 > 0:26:19That's my point!
0:26:19 > 0:26:21Yes, I totally understand that,
0:26:21 > 0:26:24and that is why I need to join together
0:26:24 > 0:26:27with the manufacturer and work together and jointly own the IP.
0:26:27 > 0:26:29Yeah, but that's not what you're doing here today.
0:26:29 > 0:26:31You're telling me you're worth £2 million.
0:26:34 > 0:26:36If you even knocked a nought off the end of that,
0:26:36 > 0:26:37it still wouldn't be worth it,
0:26:37 > 0:26:40so I'm really sorry, I won't be investing, I'm out.
0:26:43 > 0:26:47Despite the entrepreneur's valiant effort to justify her valuation,
0:26:47 > 0:26:51Deborah Meaden is the second Dragon to reject the deal.
0:26:52 > 0:26:54But will the pendulum swing Colleen's way,
0:26:54 > 0:26:57as a previously positive Jenny Campbell
0:26:57 > 0:26:59is next to declare her hand?
0:27:01 > 0:27:05You're very, very competent and presentable and determined.
0:27:07 > 0:27:10You may have a business from this in the future, but it's all future.
0:27:11 > 0:27:14But it's not an investment at this stage.
0:27:14 > 0:27:16So for that reason, I wish you good luck, but I'm out.
0:27:20 > 0:27:22I think you need to be very, very careful
0:27:22 > 0:27:24because even as a sales agent,
0:27:24 > 0:27:28if you don't sign that joint-venture agreement with your supplier,
0:27:28 > 0:27:32he could very easily go straight to the distributor...
0:27:33 > 0:27:37..and say, "Well, we don't need Colleen."
0:27:37 > 0:27:39Unfortunately, I don't think it's investable, so I'm out.
0:27:43 > 0:27:45Four Dragons down.
0:27:45 > 0:27:47Now only Touker Suleyman can turn
0:27:47 > 0:27:50the struggling entrepreneur's fortunes around.
0:27:52 > 0:27:54I think you've got a long way to go.
0:27:54 > 0:27:58I honestly believe, go away, look at the watch,
0:27:58 > 0:28:01what else can you add to it that's unique,
0:28:01 > 0:28:03that you could then have an IP to?
0:28:03 > 0:28:06And then you might have a company worth a few hundred thousand pounds.
0:28:06 > 0:28:08But definitely not 2 million.
0:28:10 > 0:28:12There's no way I'm going to invest.
0:28:12 > 0:28:14I'm out.
0:28:14 > 0:28:15Thank you.
0:28:17 > 0:28:21Time's up for Colleen, and she leaves the Den empty-handed,
0:28:21 > 0:28:24scuppered by her company's price tag.
0:28:28 > 0:28:31That's the trouble with crazy valuations.
0:28:31 > 0:28:33- 2 million.- Crazy!- Wow.
0:28:34 > 0:28:38I didn't come up with a valuation out of thin air.
0:28:38 > 0:28:41You know, it had a lot of research behind it.
0:28:41 > 0:28:44In regards to Peter Jones's comment, you have to start somewhere.
0:28:44 > 0:28:45I am building a business.
0:28:52 > 0:28:56So far, all the Dragons have been fighting to invest.
0:28:56 > 0:28:59- I'm so pleased. - Thank you very much.
0:28:59 > 0:29:02Now the Den's about to get a whole lot tougher.
0:29:02 > 0:29:04I think it's a little bit messy.
0:29:04 > 0:29:07You haven't shown the business acumen that comes with this.
0:29:07 > 0:29:09What's going on now? Are you feeling pressure?
0:29:09 > 0:29:13Yes. It's throwing all the numbers out of my head.
0:29:13 > 0:29:16But there's still time for deals to be struck.
0:29:16 > 0:29:19You are highly investable as an individual.
0:29:19 > 0:29:21I know we can both add value.
0:29:21 > 0:29:22I'm going to make you an offer.
0:29:26 > 0:29:29Entrepreneurs often get the inspiration for their products
0:29:29 > 0:29:32from the most unexpected of places.
0:29:32 > 0:29:34None more so than Jonathan Newman,
0:29:34 > 0:29:38who has looked to the stars in search of his space-age offering.
0:29:43 > 0:29:47My product is utilising the same technology that Nasa uses.
0:29:49 > 0:29:53But it's something that the everyday consumer can have in their bag.
0:29:53 > 0:29:56He's hoping the Den will be his launch pad...
0:29:56 > 0:29:59..and its countdown to liftoff.
0:30:04 > 0:30:06My name is Jonathan Newman
0:30:06 > 0:30:09and I'm here looking for £75,000
0:30:09 > 0:30:13for 7.5% of my company Giving Tree Ventures.
0:30:13 > 0:30:16We make a range of uber-healthy freeze-dried fruit
0:30:16 > 0:30:18and vacuum-fried vegetable crisps
0:30:18 > 0:30:22using the same technology that Nasa uses to prepare food
0:30:22 > 0:30:23for astronauts.
0:30:23 > 0:30:26This innovative process works by removing the moisture
0:30:26 > 0:30:29from the product but leaving the nutritional content
0:30:29 > 0:30:30completely intact.
0:30:30 > 0:30:32Freeze-drying is a multimillion category in the States,
0:30:32 > 0:30:34and it's making its way to the UK.
0:30:34 > 0:30:37We are currently stocked in Wholefoods, Planet Organic,
0:30:37 > 0:30:42Ocado, Holland & Barrett, over 200 Spar petrol stations across the UK,
0:30:42 > 0:30:45and we also export to 13 countries.
0:30:45 > 0:30:49In our first year of trading, we turned over £230,000.
0:30:49 > 0:30:52And my aim going forward, with your help,
0:30:52 > 0:30:57is to conquer the UK major multiple supermarkets where scale and volume
0:30:57 > 0:30:59can really be achieved.
0:30:59 > 0:31:01So, thank you very much for listening
0:31:01 > 0:31:02and I'd be delighted to bring you
0:31:02 > 0:31:04some samples to taste.
0:31:06 > 0:31:10- I get the whole tray?- No, just grab one. Just grab one bowl. - Oh, I'll just grab one.
0:31:10 > 0:31:14Offering dehydrated fruit and veg inspired by astronauts,
0:31:14 > 0:31:20Jonathan Newman's looking for £75,000 for 7.5% of his company.
0:31:20 > 0:31:21- What is that?- That's mango.
0:31:21 > 0:31:25The Dragons are certainly making short work of testing the product.
0:31:26 > 0:31:30Now Deborah Meaden's keen to begin a discovery mission
0:31:30 > 0:31:32into the cosmic crisps.
0:31:34 > 0:31:36- I LOVE these.- Thank you.
0:31:36 > 0:31:40So, to be clear, because there's dry product around.
0:31:40 > 0:31:41Do you claim this is healthier?
0:31:41 > 0:31:42- Yes.- OK.
0:31:42 > 0:31:45And that's because of the process?
0:31:45 > 0:31:48Absolutely, yeah. All that's being removed is the moisture.
0:31:48 > 0:31:51Because there's no moisture, bacteria can't grow.
0:31:51 > 0:31:53So you get up to 18 months' shelf life,
0:31:53 > 0:31:55and you get no nutritional loss.
0:31:55 > 0:31:57So, does this use no chemical at all?
0:31:57 > 0:32:01None whatsoever. What I would say is where we excel is in taste and
0:32:01 > 0:32:04quality. We're the only ones experimenting with, you know,
0:32:04 > 0:32:07superfood vegetables like broccoli and pumpkin.
0:32:07 > 0:32:10Jonathan, it tastes really good.
0:32:10 > 0:32:13- Thank you.- But part of me is thinking it tastes so good
0:32:13 > 0:32:17because, if you look at this packet, it's 40% fat content.
0:32:19 > 0:32:23Well, the only added ingredient in the broccoli and the pumpkin
0:32:23 > 0:32:25is 2% rice bran oil. That's it.
0:32:25 > 0:32:28But you're marketing this as a health snack.
0:32:28 > 0:32:32But at 40% fat, to me that doesn't seem healthy at all.
0:32:32 > 0:32:36Well, I mean, look, fats appear in food naturally and there's obviously
0:32:36 > 0:32:41good fats as well, and traditionally crisps are fried in some not very
0:32:41 > 0:32:44nice oils in very high temperatures.
0:32:44 > 0:32:47So, what you're getting here is something which is not oily,
0:32:47 > 0:32:48done at a low temperature.
0:32:48 > 0:32:50I think it is oily.
0:32:50 > 0:32:54I mean, if you look at the broccoli, when you pick it up,
0:32:54 > 0:32:56your hands, your fingers get quite oily.
0:32:58 > 0:33:01Jonathan's snack is proving too fatty
0:33:01 > 0:33:03for health magnate Tej Lalvani.
0:33:05 > 0:33:08And Peter Jones thinks he may have spotted another potential sticking
0:33:08 > 0:33:10point with the product.
0:33:11 > 0:33:13I noticed the product is made in Thailand at the moment.
0:33:13 > 0:33:15- Yeah.- And why is that?
0:33:15 > 0:33:18Freeze-drying, it's a prohibitively expensive...
0:33:20 > 0:33:22..process to make.
0:33:22 > 0:33:25I looked at a lot of co-packers in Europe.
0:33:25 > 0:33:27The cost of goods was way too high.
0:33:27 > 0:33:28What's the love of Thailand?
0:33:28 > 0:33:31The reason is, is because I was there during the tsunami.
0:33:31 > 0:33:34Literally, I missed it by one boat.
0:33:34 > 0:33:36You know, the boat behind me capsized.
0:33:36 > 0:33:38- Seriously?- Yeah. Yeah.
0:33:38 > 0:33:39But that's another story.
0:33:39 > 0:33:42But while I was there, I fell in love with coconut water.
0:33:42 > 0:33:45So I launched a company making raw organic coconut water.
0:33:45 > 0:33:48- What happened to that company? - I still run that company.
0:33:48 > 0:33:49However, I am
0:33:49 > 0:33:52having a conversation about a potential
0:33:52 > 0:33:53majority shareholding of that
0:33:53 > 0:33:55company with strategic partners.
0:33:55 > 0:33:57And how much do you think you'll exit for?
0:33:57 > 0:33:59I would like to think I'll get about 6.5 million.
0:34:01 > 0:34:02And you own how much of that?
0:34:02 > 0:34:0366%.
0:34:04 > 0:34:07So you'll get at least nearly £4 million?
0:34:08 > 0:34:10And what will you do with that 4 million?
0:34:10 > 0:34:13Go back to Thailand and sit on the beach?
0:34:13 > 0:34:16No, no. I'm an entrepreneur and, you know, my heart is in...
0:34:17 > 0:34:19..in product and creating.
0:34:19 > 0:34:21Would you take investment in that business?
0:34:21 > 0:34:23As a whole?
0:34:28 > 0:34:32If the investment and the valuation
0:34:32 > 0:34:34were agreed upon,
0:34:34 > 0:34:36it might be something I'd think about.
0:34:39 > 0:34:41Food for thought for the serial entrepreneur
0:34:41 > 0:34:44in the form of an alternative deal proposal.
0:34:46 > 0:34:50But Touker Suleyman wants to know if the brand is forecast to be the gift
0:34:50 > 0:34:51that keeps on giving.
0:34:53 > 0:34:55If you had the project going forward...
0:34:55 > 0:34:58You've done 230,000?
0:34:58 > 0:34:59- Yes.- First year?- First year.
0:34:59 > 0:35:01- So, year two.- Roughly it's the same.
0:35:01 > 0:35:03230 with a break even.
0:35:03 > 0:35:06- Right.- You know, currently my gross margin at the end of the year
0:35:06 > 0:35:08is about 27%, and I'm breaking even.
0:35:08 > 0:35:11So it is expensive to make, and I'm finding ways
0:35:11 > 0:35:14- of getting my cost of goods down. - I look at the product, great.
0:35:14 > 0:35:16- Thank you.- And when the numbers come up, it's like,
0:35:16 > 0:35:18it should be a £5 million business.
0:35:18 > 0:35:19- It should be.- Yeah.- It will be.
0:35:19 > 0:35:21I'm like, "Hello?"
0:35:21 > 0:35:22You know, it's...
0:35:22 > 0:35:24Is it because you're too expensive?
0:35:24 > 0:35:27Is it because you can't open the doors?
0:35:27 > 0:35:29I have relationships with drink buyers,
0:35:29 > 0:35:32- but I don't have relationships with snack buyers.- Right.
0:35:32 > 0:35:35You know, it's basically like starting from scratch.
0:35:37 > 0:35:41A blow for Jonathan as he's forced to admit that costly crisps
0:35:41 > 0:35:45and a lack of contacts are barriers to big profits.
0:35:46 > 0:35:50Is the product's most enthusiastic consumer, Deborah Meaden,
0:35:50 > 0:35:52prepared to put her money where her mouth is?
0:35:54 > 0:35:57Not only have I virtually finished my bowl,
0:35:57 > 0:36:00but I've also had all of the strawberries and mangoes.
0:36:00 > 0:36:01I think they're lovely.
0:36:01 > 0:36:02- Thank you.- You're great.
0:36:02 > 0:36:04The branding's great.
0:36:04 > 0:36:06But there's a lot of moving parts
0:36:06 > 0:36:10that I feel are about to move against you.
0:36:11 > 0:36:12You've got to get better margins.
0:36:12 > 0:36:15If you don't get better margins, it doesn't matter who I introduce you to.
0:36:15 > 0:36:17- Yeah.- They're not going to buy your product.
0:36:17 > 0:36:20- Yeah, agreed.- So, I'm really sorry, I would love to have made it work.
0:36:20 > 0:36:22- Thank you.- But I'm afraid I'm not over the line.
0:36:22 > 0:36:25- OK.- So, I'm out.
0:36:25 > 0:36:26Thank you.
0:36:26 > 0:36:29Deborah Meaden's a fan of the crisps
0:36:29 > 0:36:32but deems their margins less than tasty.
0:36:32 > 0:36:36Can Touker Suleyman be tempted by the snack business?
0:36:37 > 0:36:39You've got a great product.
0:36:39 > 0:36:43You're great. But as a business, it's not going to make money.
0:36:46 > 0:36:49And it breaks my heart to say I'm not going to invest
0:36:49 > 0:36:52cos I think I'll never get my money back. And I'm out.
0:36:52 > 0:36:54OK, thank you.
0:36:55 > 0:36:56Jonathan,
0:36:56 > 0:36:59I think it's a little bit messy.
0:37:00 > 0:37:02Your margins are under pressure.
0:37:02 > 0:37:05It's going to be difficult to raise the prices.
0:37:05 > 0:37:07And you've got this manufacturer...
0:37:07 > 0:37:09..who seems to be the only person...
0:37:11 > 0:37:12..in the world right now
0:37:12 > 0:37:14who can make it to the specifications you want.
0:37:19 > 0:37:23However, I think I can add a lot of value to this.
0:37:25 > 0:37:28I can get you access to all the stores
0:37:28 > 0:37:31and help you with building the brand.
0:37:31 > 0:37:34But obviously that's going to come at a cost.
0:37:36 > 0:37:38So it's a bit of a punt for me.
0:37:39 > 0:37:41But I'm willing to offer you...
0:37:43 > 0:37:44..all of the money...
0:37:45 > 0:37:46..for 35%.
0:37:49 > 0:37:51Despite the challenges,
0:37:51 > 0:37:53Tej Lalvani takes a risk,
0:37:53 > 0:37:58offering £75,000 for 35% of the company.
0:37:59 > 0:38:03Two more Dragons could still make rival offers.
0:38:03 > 0:38:06Peter Jones has already hinted he might consider investing.
0:38:08 > 0:38:10The product's really good. It tastes great.
0:38:10 > 0:38:14But whilst I think on the surface it looks fantastic...
0:38:15 > 0:38:18..I think as a business opportunity
0:38:18 > 0:38:23it's not going to produce a return that I would need.
0:38:23 > 0:38:26And the second thing is you are currently about to go through
0:38:26 > 0:38:29six months of a transaction, which I truly believe will defocus you,
0:38:29 > 0:38:33even though you don't think it will, and that won't be good for me.
0:38:33 > 0:38:35So, I'm sadly going to say...
0:38:35 > 0:38:37- ..I'm out.- OK. Thank you.
0:38:38 > 0:38:43- Jonathan.- Yes.- You are highly investable as an individual.
0:38:43 > 0:38:46- Thank you.- And I would really like working with you.
0:38:48 > 0:38:50What would I offer? Well,
0:38:50 > 0:38:53the business I owned up until last year was in all the major retailers,
0:38:53 > 0:38:56or many of them, and I had relationships with the others
0:38:56 > 0:38:58in the UK and in Western Europe.
0:38:58 > 0:39:01And I sit here ready to invest in the next right thing and
0:39:01 > 0:39:04give it a lot of focus and energy and attention as well,
0:39:04 > 0:39:06which I think is important.
0:39:09 > 0:39:10So, where does that leave me?
0:39:18 > 0:39:20I think, on balance, you've got an
0:39:20 > 0:39:26offer from a Dragon who can use your product as a tangential product
0:39:26 > 0:39:28to where he is already.
0:39:28 > 0:39:30So, I think...
0:39:30 > 0:39:32..I'm going to say I'm out.
0:39:34 > 0:39:38Jenny Campbell's withdrawal leaves Tej Lalvani's offer
0:39:38 > 0:39:40as the only deal on the table.
0:39:41 > 0:39:45But at 35% for £75,000,
0:39:45 > 0:39:49it's five times the amount of equity Jonathan wanted to part with.
0:39:52 > 0:39:56I am absolutely willing to negotiate with you.
0:39:56 > 0:39:57But, you know, we're very far apart.
0:39:59 > 0:40:02My 7.5% to 35%, so...
0:40:03 > 0:40:06I'm happy to throw that back to you and see if...
0:40:06 > 0:40:09- So, you're asking if I'm flexible? - Yeah.- Look, if this was your...
0:40:10 > 0:40:13..one product that you've got, if you had no other distractions,
0:40:13 > 0:40:17I would negotiate and I definitely wouldn't have even come in at 35%.
0:40:17 > 0:40:19But it's a big risk, and you can see
0:40:19 > 0:40:22why the other Dragons have dropped out.
0:40:23 > 0:40:27It's a fair offer, and sadly I cannot move.
0:40:29 > 0:40:32I'd be willing to offer you 15%.
0:40:33 > 0:40:36And what I will do is pay back the 75,000 you put in
0:40:36 > 0:40:38in two years' time,
0:40:38 > 0:40:40and that gets reduced to 10%.
0:40:40 > 0:40:45What I'd be willing to do is I'd want the 35% from the beginning,
0:40:45 > 0:40:46and if you return the money...
0:40:49 > 0:40:52..I'll drop to 27.5%.
0:40:52 > 0:40:54I think we need to bring the figure down a bit, Tej.
0:40:56 > 0:40:59Um, that's the best I can do.
0:41:04 > 0:41:09It's... You know, my ceiling was lower than that.
0:41:11 > 0:41:15Well, I'm sorry, but I'm out.
0:41:15 > 0:41:17Thanks.
0:41:18 > 0:41:20Well done, Jonathan, but I wish you all the best.
0:41:20 > 0:41:22Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks.
0:41:22 > 0:41:26No magic money tree for the dehydrated fruit and veg.
0:41:26 > 0:41:29Jonathan leaves the Den without a deal.
0:41:32 > 0:41:34Given the risks and what was at stake,
0:41:34 > 0:41:35I think that was a fair offer.
0:41:35 > 0:41:40Yeah, I mean, he's a great guy, great product, it was just, uh,
0:41:40 > 0:41:41it was too risky.
0:41:43 > 0:41:45I really genuinely think we could have, you know,
0:41:45 > 0:41:47we could have met somewhere a bit closer in the middle.
0:41:47 > 0:41:49When I say middle, I mean closer to me.
0:42:02 > 0:42:06Last into the Den, a 25-year-old entrepreneur from Belgium...
0:42:06 > 0:42:09I can't believe I'm actually doing this.
0:42:09 > 0:42:11I cannot believe it.
0:42:11 > 0:42:14..a businesswoman confident she has a unique solution
0:42:14 > 0:42:17to a problem faced by many wheelchair users.
0:42:18 > 0:42:21I'm a bit nervous, but I feel OK.
0:42:23 > 0:42:27It's just, yeah, controlling the nerves, keeping it Zen.
0:42:36 > 0:42:38My name is Corien Staels,
0:42:38 > 0:42:41founder and CEO of Staels Design and developer of wheelAIR,
0:42:41 > 0:42:44an award-winning battery-powered airflow backrest cushion.
0:42:44 > 0:42:47WheelAIR increases your comfort and keeps you cool,
0:42:47 > 0:42:48combining function with style.
0:42:50 > 0:42:56Today, I'm here to sell you 15% of my company in return for £75,000.
0:42:56 > 0:42:59So, how does it work? As you can see on that wheelchair, there's a unit
0:42:59 > 0:43:02underneath. That unit basically sucks air in at the bottom,
0:43:02 > 0:43:05pushes it up and then gently pushes it out onto your back,
0:43:05 > 0:43:07creating a general feeling of cooling.
0:43:08 > 0:43:12We believe that with wheelAIR we can capture £45 million
0:43:12 > 0:43:13in the UK alone.
0:43:13 > 0:43:15And we've had lots of interest so far and we're working with some
0:43:15 > 0:43:17fantastic Paralympic athletes,
0:43:17 > 0:43:19such as double Paralympian Michael Kerr,
0:43:19 > 0:43:20who I've got with me today.
0:43:20 > 0:43:24With your help, we want to go into distributing and into manufacturing,
0:43:24 > 0:43:28because with your help we can change every wheelchair user's life.
0:43:29 > 0:43:32Thank you very much. Would anyone like to try it out?
0:43:32 > 0:43:33I would, actually, yes.
0:43:35 > 0:43:41A slick pitch from Corien Staels, who's looking for £75,000...
0:43:41 > 0:43:42You have a simple remote.
0:43:42 > 0:43:46..in exchange for 15% of her company,
0:43:46 > 0:43:49making air conditioning cushions for wheelchairs.
0:43:49 > 0:43:52- It's already...- Exactly.- ..cool. - Yeah.
0:43:52 > 0:43:54It worked in seconds for Deborah Meaden,
0:43:54 > 0:43:57and she's keen to get some first-hand feedback
0:43:57 > 0:44:00from the invention's Paralympian user Michael Kerr.
0:44:02 > 0:44:06Michael, how long have you been using this?
0:44:07 > 0:44:10I've been trialling this on and off now for a few months.
0:44:10 > 0:44:13It's a great piece of kit for somebody like myself.
0:44:13 > 0:44:16I had a spinal cord injury back in 2000,
0:44:16 > 0:44:20resulting in paralysis from the chest down,
0:44:20 > 0:44:23so when I get too hot, I just keep getting hotter and hotter
0:44:23 > 0:44:26because I don't have the ability to sweat any more.
0:44:26 > 0:44:30So, having something like this obviously helps me regulate my body
0:44:30 > 0:44:32- temperature.- Thank you.
0:44:32 > 0:44:33Thank you.
0:44:34 > 0:44:37A winning endorsement from a Paralympic athlete
0:44:37 > 0:44:40is not a bad start to Corien's pitch.
0:44:40 > 0:44:45And now Touker Suleyman's wondering what's driving her ambition.
0:44:45 > 0:44:47So, what gave you the inspiration?
0:44:47 > 0:44:49So, there was a woman at university who was a wheelchair user,
0:44:49 > 0:44:52and she said, "You know, a lot of people have overheating issues.
0:44:52 > 0:44:54"Maybe you can make a cooling clothing line." I said,
0:44:54 > 0:44:57"Well, I'll drop the clothing line, but I can solve the issue."
0:44:58 > 0:44:59And what about yourself?
0:44:59 > 0:45:03- What's your background? - So, I studied in Amsterdam,
0:45:03 > 0:45:07so I did a Bachelors in international fashion management
0:45:07 > 0:45:08there for four years,
0:45:08 > 0:45:11and then I came to Glasgow to do my Masters in international business
0:45:11 > 0:45:13- and entrepreneurship.- Whoa! Yeah.
0:45:13 > 0:45:15- All with distinction. - Perhaps I can give you a job!
0:45:15 > 0:45:18SHE LAUGHS
0:45:20 > 0:45:23A grade-A student putting her skills to good use.
0:45:23 > 0:45:27Corien is getting top marks from Touker Suleyman.
0:45:28 > 0:45:32But Deborah Meaden wants a progress report on the business.
0:45:34 > 0:45:36Just so I understand where you are at the moment.
0:45:36 > 0:45:38Are you actually in production?
0:45:38 > 0:45:40No, currently we have four prototypes at work.
0:45:40 > 0:45:44We currently don't have the funding to go into manufacturing
0:45:44 > 0:45:48- so that's why we're here today. - And made in the UK at the moment?
0:45:48 > 0:45:51So, the foam is made in Italy,
0:45:51 > 0:45:53and the cover is made in Tunisia.
0:45:54 > 0:45:58So, and the rest is made in Glasgow and will be in the UK.
0:45:58 > 0:46:01And do you know about how much it's going to cost to make?
0:46:01 > 0:46:04Yes. It costs us £127.
0:46:04 > 0:46:06£127 to make.
0:46:06 > 0:46:08So, what do you think you're going to be selling it out at?
0:46:08 > 0:46:10It's retailing at 575.
0:46:12 > 0:46:13I think that's quite expensive.
0:46:13 > 0:46:18- Mm-hm.- It's a very, very cleverly designed, simple product.
0:46:18 > 0:46:20- Yeah.- And the raw materials are not that expensive.
0:46:22 > 0:46:25If you really wanted to do volume on it,
0:46:25 > 0:46:27I know a little bit about textiles,
0:46:27 > 0:46:30you could probably bring that down dramatically.
0:46:32 > 0:46:35The king of outsourcing, Touker Suleyman,
0:46:35 > 0:46:39spots the potential to lower Corien's production costs.
0:46:39 > 0:46:43Jenny Campbell's more interested in how much the product will set the
0:46:43 > 0:46:45consumer back.
0:46:45 > 0:46:49How did you come to a price point of 575?
0:46:49 > 0:46:51If I price it too low, you don't get the credibility.
0:46:51 > 0:46:54If it's too high, no-one will buy it.
0:46:54 > 0:46:57But with 575, it covers our overheads really well.
0:46:59 > 0:47:01I think you've got a great product,
0:47:01 > 0:47:03and it solves a very important purpose.
0:47:03 > 0:47:04I think it's just...
0:47:06 > 0:47:09..the cost, £575, is a lot,
0:47:09 > 0:47:13and I think you could end up struggling to convince people.
0:47:13 > 0:47:15But if you want to get a bigger market,
0:47:15 > 0:47:17you want something that's more affordable.
0:47:20 > 0:47:22Tej Lalvani thinks the product's price tag
0:47:22 > 0:47:25could limit its mass-market appeal,
0:47:25 > 0:47:28which has left Peter Jones wondering
0:47:28 > 0:47:32how Corien's future sales are likely to stack up.
0:47:34 > 0:47:37What's your forecast, your three-year forecast?
0:47:37 > 0:47:40Three-year forecast total is, uh...
0:47:40 > 0:47:42The...
0:47:43 > 0:47:46I always calculate in Dutch.
0:47:46 > 0:47:50So, it will be about 2.5 million, I guess, turnover.
0:47:50 > 0:47:52And how many products would that be?
0:47:52 > 0:47:54That is... Oh, I've got this all written down exactly but it'll be...
0:47:54 > 0:47:56Uh...
0:47:58 > 0:48:01Would you like to see the sheet that has all the...?
0:48:01 > 0:48:03No, no, I just want you to tell me.
0:48:03 > 0:48:07OK. I think we're selling about 1,000 products by year three.
0:48:07 > 0:48:091,000 total of these products?
0:48:09 > 0:48:11No, they'll be...
0:48:11 > 0:48:14- Do you mean combined? - So what other products?
0:48:14 > 0:48:15You're pitching this today,
0:48:15 > 0:48:17but there's other products you haven't created yet?
0:48:17 > 0:48:21We're actually applying for a grant now to develop a more technically
0:48:21 > 0:48:23advanced version of this that's heating and cooling.
0:48:23 > 0:48:25But instead of applying for grants,
0:48:25 > 0:48:27why don't you try and create a business,
0:48:27 > 0:48:28make some money and reinvest the money?
0:48:28 > 0:48:32- I do, I do. But... - Instead of using public funds.- I do.
0:48:32 > 0:48:34The whole thing about entrepreneurship is that
0:48:34 > 0:48:37you're trying to create a business and be self-sustainable,
0:48:37 > 0:48:40and build a business and utilise those retained profits.
0:48:40 > 0:48:42With the right grant, we can hire people, so it's basically
0:48:42 > 0:48:45- just without profit...- No, but you can hire a lot more people
0:48:45 > 0:48:47- if you start making money in your business.- Yeah, and we will.
0:48:47 > 0:48:49How many of these will you sell in three years?
0:48:52 > 0:48:54I'll sell at least 200 in the first year,
0:48:54 > 0:48:58450 in the second year, so, say, 800.
0:48:58 > 0:49:00800?
0:49:01 > 0:49:04And what will be the revenue if you sell 800?
0:49:04 > 0:49:05Uh, so, 800...
0:49:08 > 0:49:10Uh... Uh... 4 million?
0:49:13 > 0:49:15And what will be your gross margin?
0:49:15 > 0:49:17Um... Gross margin on that...
0:49:19 > 0:49:21Uh... I don't know by heart.
0:49:21 > 0:49:23I think 300.
0:49:23 > 0:49:25No... Uh...
0:49:26 > 0:49:27I'm sorry.
0:49:30 > 0:49:33- What's happened here?- I don't know. I have my numbers but I just...
0:49:33 > 0:49:35I know I have a turnover for five years per month
0:49:35 > 0:49:37and I know exactly how much I sell...
0:49:37 > 0:49:39But, Corien, you're a distinction student.
0:49:39 > 0:49:41Yes.
0:49:41 > 0:49:43So, Corien, what's going on now?
0:49:43 > 0:49:46- Is this pressure? Are you feeling pressure?- Yes.
0:49:46 > 0:49:49It's doing all the numbers just, like, out of my head.
0:49:49 > 0:49:52- OK. We're at 300K.- Mm-hm. - And now a valuation.
0:49:52 > 0:49:54Where do you come to a valuation of half a million
0:49:54 > 0:49:56where you sit today with a product that's not launched?
0:49:58 > 0:50:01I am so sorry, but I am going to pass out.
0:50:01 > 0:50:03I don't know why. I'm seeing only black.
0:50:03 > 0:50:05- Oh.- Do you want some water here? - Sit down.
0:50:05 > 0:50:07- Here you are.- Sit down here.
0:50:07 > 0:50:09- Sit down here.- Have some water.
0:50:12 > 0:50:14- I'm sorry.- It's fine, it's fine, it's fine.
0:50:14 > 0:50:16- Take a break. - It's fine, don't worry.
0:50:16 > 0:50:18- Breathe and... - I'm really not feeling well.
0:50:18 > 0:50:19It's just my sugar sometimes drops.
0:50:19 > 0:50:22It's fine. It's fine. Don't worry.
0:50:22 > 0:50:24It's OK, I've got the cooling cushion on.
0:50:24 > 0:50:26- LAUGHTER - Good answer.
0:50:31 > 0:50:35The pressure of the Den has proved too much for Corien.
0:50:35 > 0:50:36Everything just goes black.
0:50:36 > 0:50:40Forced to abandon her pitch midway, she's taken out to recover.
0:50:42 > 0:50:44The interrogation by the Dragons
0:50:44 > 0:50:47has left holes in her financial forecast.
0:50:50 > 0:50:54But, feeling better, Corien decides to return to the Den.
0:51:00 > 0:51:01How are you feeling?
0:51:01 > 0:51:03Bit shaky still but better.
0:51:03 > 0:51:04- I'm so sorry about that. - That's all right.
0:51:06 > 0:51:09It's straight back to business for Jenny Campbell,
0:51:09 > 0:51:11who is quick to turn up the heat.
0:51:12 > 0:51:15Corien, let me tell you where I am.
0:51:16 > 0:51:18There's a lot of things I don't like.
0:51:20 > 0:51:22You clearly come under pressure under your numbers,
0:51:22 > 0:51:25despite you being a distinction student.
0:51:25 > 0:51:27You haven't shown the business acumen that comes with this,
0:51:27 > 0:51:29not to me.
0:51:29 > 0:51:32The thing I take most issue with is an 85% margin
0:51:32 > 0:51:35for a product where you're trying to help people.
0:51:38 > 0:51:42I take issue with it, and I don't have confidence in you becoming
0:51:42 > 0:51:44a businesswoman and this being scalable.
0:51:47 > 0:51:50And for that reason, Corien, I am out.
0:51:50 > 0:51:51Thank you.
0:51:53 > 0:51:55Affronted by Corien's mark-up
0:51:55 > 0:51:58and lacking confidence in her business skills,
0:51:58 > 0:52:01Jenny Campbell becomes the first Dragon out.
0:52:02 > 0:52:08Can health tycoon Tej Lalvani revive this rapidly deflating pitch?
0:52:08 > 0:52:10I think there's quite a bit of risk.
0:52:13 > 0:52:17However, I think that, if it's a unique product...
0:52:19 > 0:52:23..with the right support and the right backing, it could do OK.
0:52:24 > 0:52:25So...
0:52:27 > 0:52:29..I'll offer you half the money for...
0:52:35 > 0:52:36..20% of the company.
0:52:38 > 0:52:40Tej Lalvani comes to the rescue,
0:52:40 > 0:52:43breathing new life into the entrepreneur's pitch.
0:52:43 > 0:52:47But he's only willing to put up half of the £75,000,
0:52:47 > 0:52:50and that's for a whopping 20% of the company.
0:52:51 > 0:52:54A double deal with textile tycoon Touker Suleyman
0:52:54 > 0:52:56could be right up Corien's street.
0:52:56 > 0:52:59But can he come up with a two-for-one offer?
0:53:00 > 0:53:02I'll tell you where I stand.
0:53:02 > 0:53:06I don't think you can work on such huge margins.
0:53:06 > 0:53:10If you could bring the cost of that unit down to £40,
0:53:10 > 0:53:12then you could retail that for 199.
0:53:12 > 0:53:14- How does that sound to you?- It would
0:53:14 > 0:53:17be ideal if you can get the cost prices down that low.
0:53:17 > 0:53:19But we've just not been able to manage it ourselves.
0:53:19 > 0:53:21OK, well, look, there are a lot of question marks.
0:53:23 > 0:53:26- I'm the Dragon for you.- Is that so?
0:53:26 > 0:53:28- I think you know that.- Mm.
0:53:32 > 0:53:34And I'll share the risk with Tej,
0:53:34 > 0:53:36so I'll give you the other half of the money...
0:53:38 > 0:53:39..for 20%.
0:53:42 > 0:53:43Quite a turnaround.
0:53:43 > 0:53:49The whole £75,000 split between two Dragons with connections in global
0:53:49 > 0:53:51health and textile businesses.
0:53:53 > 0:53:56Peter Jones has held back since Corien almost fainted
0:53:56 > 0:53:59during his financial cross-examination.
0:53:59 > 0:54:02Has he reached a verdict?
0:54:02 > 0:54:04What I feel is that there is...
0:54:05 > 0:54:08..a real, huge opportunity, actually,
0:54:08 > 0:54:11for your product to enter the market,
0:54:11 > 0:54:14and you can see how it's potentially life-changing.
0:54:15 > 0:54:17I'm going to make you an offer.
0:54:19 > 0:54:24But mine is conditional upon the fact that, if Deborah is interested,
0:54:24 > 0:54:26that I would share with Deborah.
0:54:27 > 0:54:29I'm going to offer you half of the money...
0:54:32 > 0:54:33..for just 15%.
0:54:42 > 0:54:43So, Corien...
0:54:45 > 0:54:46I don't know if you know,
0:54:46 > 0:54:49a very close member of my family is in a wheelchair.
0:54:49 > 0:54:53As a result of my sister's problems...
0:54:55 > 0:54:58..I've actually been involved with a project designing a wheelchair.
0:54:58 > 0:54:59OK.
0:55:01 > 0:55:03I would have made you an offer in any event.
0:55:06 > 0:55:07But Peter and I work very well together.
0:55:07 > 0:55:12We've worked on many other projects, and I know we can both add value.
0:55:12 > 0:55:14So, I'm going to make you an offer.
0:55:15 > 0:55:17It will be for half of the money.
0:55:17 > 0:55:19It will be for 15%.
0:55:19 > 0:55:21And it will be to match Peter's offer.
0:55:22 > 0:55:23OK.
0:55:24 > 0:55:26It's a massive turnaround
0:55:26 > 0:55:29as a Meaden-Jones partnership
0:55:29 > 0:55:33undercuts Tej Lalvani and Touker Suleyman's joint offer
0:55:33 > 0:55:35by 10%.
0:55:35 > 0:55:37And it's not over yet.
0:55:38 > 0:55:42I would just say that I would change my offer to 15%,
0:55:42 > 0:55:46to match Deborah and Peter's if Tej agrees.
0:55:46 > 0:55:49I don't think there's anyone here that's more passionate about health.
0:55:49 > 0:55:51That is MY business.
0:55:51 > 0:55:53That's what we do. We help improve people's lives.
0:55:53 > 0:55:58So, I'm willing to drop my percentage from 20 to 15%...
0:55:58 > 0:55:59- Yes.- ..to match Touker's.
0:56:03 > 0:56:05This is a very difficult decision.
0:56:05 > 0:56:07And I'll tell you what we'll do,
0:56:07 > 0:56:09if we get our money back, I'll drop it to ten.
0:56:09 > 0:56:12You've gone 30, 25... And poor... That lady hasn't even said anything.
0:56:12 > 0:56:15- TEJ:- Well, no, it just shows how passionate we are
0:56:15 > 0:56:18- about what she's doing. - Because I don't want you to have it!
0:56:18 > 0:56:21Four Dragons have set out their offers
0:56:21 > 0:56:23and Corien's firmly in the driving seat.
0:56:24 > 0:56:26Peter and Deborah, are you...
0:56:27 > 0:56:31..willing to match what they said with giving me back percentage
0:56:31 > 0:56:32if you make back the money?
0:56:32 > 0:56:37I'm happy to drop on the repayment down to 10%.
0:56:37 > 0:56:39- Very happy to.- Um...
0:56:44 > 0:56:46I think I'm going to go with Deborah and Peter.
0:56:46 > 0:56:49- Oh!- Sorry.- Eh!
0:56:49 > 0:56:51Good. Very pleased.
0:56:51 > 0:56:53- Brilliant.- Well done. Amazing. - Thank you.
0:56:53 > 0:56:55Corien, we were happy to get you a better deal
0:56:55 > 0:56:57from the other Dragons anyway, so...
0:56:57 > 0:56:59Do I just leave? Yes? OK.
0:56:59 > 0:57:01Corien exits the Den,
0:57:01 > 0:57:04but this time feeling triumphant
0:57:04 > 0:57:08with a pledge of £75,000 and two seasoned Dragons.
0:57:08 > 0:57:10I wanted that!
0:57:10 > 0:57:12SHE LAUGHS
0:57:12 > 0:57:14I can't believe how much it turned around! You know,
0:57:14 > 0:57:17it's like they're trying to break you just to see,
0:57:17 > 0:57:19and then in the end, they're like, "Oh, you're fantastic!"
0:57:19 > 0:57:21I'm like, "What?!"
0:57:25 > 0:57:29You never can tell what the Dragons are thinking in the Den.
0:57:29 > 0:57:33As Corien found out, you can face the toughest of grillings,
0:57:33 > 0:57:35believe it's all hopeless,
0:57:35 > 0:57:39only to find you get four offers and have the Dragons fighting
0:57:39 > 0:57:40for a piece of your business.
0:57:43 > 0:57:44Coming up next time...
0:57:44 > 0:57:47- Beautiful.- I think it's really cool what you've done.
0:57:47 > 0:57:49- Bye-bye.- Bye. - LAUGHTER
0:57:49 > 0:57:51You've done well so far.
0:57:52 > 0:57:53And he says he's not a salesman.
0:57:55 > 0:57:57You'll never make any money out of it.
0:57:57 > 0:57:59But who is Touker?
0:57:59 > 0:58:02Touker, actually, is better known than you.
0:58:02 > 0:58:05An investor will always want to see some level of investment
0:58:05 > 0:58:07- from yourselves. - Don't speak on my behalf.
0:58:07 > 0:58:09Speak on your behalf.
0:58:09 > 0:58:12Keep on dreaming. It's not going to be with my money.
0:58:12 > 0:58:15I'm wondering if you've got entrepreneurial freeze.
0:58:15 > 0:58:17I'm going to give you an offer straightaway.