0:00:03 > 0:00:06Tonight, five Dragons are unleashed.
0:00:06 > 0:00:09They've already tasted the thrill of investment.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11I know that there's big potential.
0:00:11 > 0:00:15- I'm going to make you an offer. - And that's for the full £50,000.
0:00:15 > 0:00:17But I would want 15%.
0:00:17 > 0:00:19And now, they're thirsty for more...
0:00:19 > 0:00:20- Good health, Dragons.- Cheers.
0:00:20 > 0:00:22Good investment, more to the point.
0:00:22 > 0:00:26..with a fresh batch of nervous entrepreneurs.
0:00:26 > 0:00:28I think you're very, very persuasive.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30- I love it.- I'm actually going to make you an offer.
0:00:32 > 0:00:36But will their business ideas be difficult to swallow?
0:00:36 > 0:00:38Your numbers are about as hot as a mild korma.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41See, that's lovely but still stupid.
0:00:41 > 0:00:45And what will give the Dragons an appetite to spend?
0:00:45 > 0:00:49I believe I'm the one Dragon that can take you to where you want to go.
0:00:49 > 0:00:50I like the way you're negotiating.
0:00:52 > 0:00:53I'm going to withdraw my offer.
0:00:53 > 0:00:55Don't lose it for 5%.
0:01:29 > 0:01:31Welcome to Dragons' Den,
0:01:31 > 0:01:35where the latest army of nervous entrepreneurs are hoping fortune
0:01:35 > 0:01:37will favour the brave.
0:01:37 > 0:01:41Some will leave victorious with the cash from a multimillionaire Dragon
0:01:41 > 0:01:44investor, whilst others will leave with nothing.
0:01:46 > 0:01:51First into the Den is Bucharest-born Alex Buzaianu -
0:01:51 > 0:01:55an entrepreneur primed to defend his enterprise's price tag.
0:01:55 > 0:01:58It's definitely going to be exciting.
0:01:58 > 0:02:01I hope they're not going to be too tough with me on the valuation.
0:02:01 > 0:02:05And there are two Dragons in particular he wants to impress.
0:02:05 > 0:02:08I haven't decided yet which one would be the best.
0:02:08 > 0:02:13Obviously Touker Suleyman has the experience in my field but Peter is
0:02:13 > 0:02:14definitely a very influential person.
0:02:14 > 0:02:18He would help my business tremendously.
0:02:18 > 0:02:19Influential, yes,
0:02:19 > 0:02:24but notoriously fiery when it comes to a company's valuation.
0:02:30 > 0:02:32- WHISPERS:- It must be a bag.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36Hello, Dragons. My name's Alex Buzaianu
0:02:36 > 0:02:40and I'm here to offer you the opportunity to invest £90,000
0:02:40 > 0:02:42in exchange for 7% of my business.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44The brand's Temporary Forevers.
0:02:44 > 0:02:48We design and create leather goods for today's on-the-move professionals
0:02:48 > 0:02:52that wish to carry the essential gadgets and photography gear in a bag
0:02:52 > 0:02:55that is flexible and reflects their style and character.
0:02:55 > 0:03:00We bring an added versatility that is not found among other products on the market.
0:03:00 > 0:03:03The bag I have with me is the first bag designed with two
0:03:03 > 0:03:07different faces, one to be carried as a backpack and the other as a
0:03:07 > 0:03:09messenger or briefcase.
0:03:09 > 0:03:12This makes it ideal for the commuters that want to cycle to work carrying
0:03:12 > 0:03:16a backpack, they can have a messenger and then they can take the straps off
0:03:16 > 0:03:19and walk to their meeting in a professional looking briefcase.
0:03:20 > 0:03:24We first made our goods available in December 2015 through a Kickstarter
0:03:24 > 0:03:29project and we successfully raised £136,000.
0:03:29 > 0:03:32Since then, we have had another successful Kickstarter project bringing in
0:03:32 > 0:03:37a total revenue of £330,000 in the last 15 months.
0:03:37 > 0:03:41Our objective this year is to make our goods available online and
0:03:41 > 0:03:44through retail stores across Europe, Asia and the States.
0:03:44 > 0:03:48Thank you for your time. I would like to show you some of the bags if possible.
0:03:49 > 0:03:52Luxury travel, laptop and camera bags
0:03:52 > 0:03:55are the proposition from Alex Buzaianu.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57It matches your...
0:03:57 > 0:04:00- Yeah.- He's offering just 7% equity
0:04:00 > 0:04:04in return for a £90,000 investment,
0:04:04 > 0:04:09which values his business at nearly £1.3 million.
0:04:09 > 0:04:11That's yours, Peter.
0:04:11 > 0:04:16Peter Jones revived the fortunes of ailing photography brand Jessops.
0:04:16 > 0:04:19Will he think this business opportunity is picture perfect?
0:04:23 > 0:04:25Why Temporary Forevers?
0:04:25 > 0:04:28That's a really odd name.
0:04:28 > 0:04:33The reason that is because it comes from the moments that you cherish
0:04:33 > 0:04:36and you remember, they are temporary but they last forever.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39So is this a temporary forever moment for you?
0:04:39 > 0:04:42Of course it is. Is it not for you as well?
0:04:42 > 0:04:43I don't know.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47What have been the sales in the last 12 months?
0:04:47 > 0:04:50£140,000 coming from the Kickstarter project,
0:04:50 > 0:04:54plus approximately £25,000 from online sales.
0:04:54 > 0:04:58OK, so you've basically sold £165,000 worth of product.
0:04:58 > 0:05:02- Yes.- And you're very specific about £90,000 for 7%.
0:05:02 > 0:05:04- Yes.- Why?
0:05:04 > 0:05:09Considering that we have had approximately £65,000 profit,
0:05:09 > 0:05:12- I think it's a fair price, would you agree?- No.
0:05:14 > 0:05:17An early reality check from Peter Jones,
0:05:17 > 0:05:22who baulks at the entrepreneur's £1.3 million price tag.
0:05:22 > 0:05:24Jenny Campbell made her millions
0:05:24 > 0:05:27conquering the European cashpoint market.
0:05:27 > 0:05:31Can she see profitable potential in Alex's bag brand?
0:05:33 > 0:05:34Why this avenue, then?
0:05:34 > 0:05:38Tell me what's available in the marketplace now and why you've got
0:05:38 > 0:05:39a differentiator here.
0:05:39 > 0:05:45Yeah. So, in general, leather goods tend to be more classic in design.
0:05:45 > 0:05:49We decided to go for a classic sort of product, like the briefcase,
0:05:49 > 0:05:53but add a lot of functionalities that are often found among products
0:05:53 > 0:05:55that are not made of leather.
0:05:55 > 0:05:57I like it, actually. It's a lovely product.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01Alex, I'm going to tell you where I am.
0:06:01 > 0:06:04It's partly because I feel slightly conflicted.
0:06:06 > 0:06:09I've got a business that makes very beautiful leather bags.
0:06:09 > 0:06:12In thinking what I can add to a business,
0:06:12 > 0:06:16which is a voice in the marketing, I just think it adds confusion.
0:06:16 > 0:06:18- Yeah.- It just worries me, for you,
0:06:18 > 0:06:20my voice wouldn't have that clarity
0:06:20 > 0:06:23that you probably need to get yourself heard.
0:06:23 > 0:06:25But you got the most fascinating voice.
0:06:25 > 0:06:27Your accent is...
0:06:27 > 0:06:29Is... Isn't it interesting?
0:06:29 > 0:06:32- I know...- Wow, Deborah Meaden flirting in the Den.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36- Thank you, Deborah. - You call that flirting?- Yeah.
0:06:37 > 0:06:39If you did that to me, I'd
0:06:39 > 0:06:42- receive it as flirting.- You need to see a bit more flirting, Peter.
0:06:42 > 0:06:45But anyway, only for that reason, I won't be investing, Alex.
0:06:45 > 0:06:47I'm out.
0:06:48 > 0:06:52Investment in a similar business leads a conflicted,
0:06:52 > 0:06:54but definitely not flirtatious,
0:06:54 > 0:06:56Deborah Meaden to bow out of the deal.
0:06:57 > 0:07:03Now fashion guru Touker Suleyman turns his expert eye on Alex's offering.
0:07:04 > 0:07:06I know a thing or two about bags.
0:07:06 > 0:07:11- You do, yeah.- And this one here, for instance, retails for how much?
0:07:11 > 0:07:12It retails at 245.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15245? It's quite expensive.
0:07:16 > 0:07:19- Yes.- You're not at the low end...
0:07:19 > 0:07:24- No.- There are some very, very good imitation leathers...
0:07:25 > 0:07:31..that, you put them next to each other, you wouldn't even know it was imitation leather.
0:07:31 > 0:07:32- Can I say something?- Sure.
0:07:32 > 0:07:37It's like having a Lamborghini with a Renault engine.
0:07:37 > 0:07:41So, although, on the outside, it may look great, it's not the same thing.
0:07:41 > 0:07:43Yeah, but it's a different price point.
0:07:43 > 0:07:47- I agree.- What I'm trying to say to you is you're at that mid-price point,
0:07:47 > 0:07:49which is a very difficult price point.
0:07:51 > 0:07:54I actually think your price point is probably OK,
0:07:54 > 0:07:56depending on the quality of the product.
0:07:56 > 0:07:59People will be prepared to pay for the leather.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02I love leather goods.
0:08:02 > 0:08:04Satchels, backpacks...
0:08:04 > 0:08:06Glad to hear it.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08I don't want to wear
0:08:08 > 0:08:10a bag that's a nylon material.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13I like leather. It looks good, the quality.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16And I think it's a massively growing market.
0:08:16 > 0:08:18- For men. I agree.- For men.
0:08:18 > 0:08:20- Absolutely.- So, that's all good.
0:08:20 > 0:08:23Alex, I know this area very well.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26Your product's overpriced for what it is.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29I think the quality is mediocre at this price range.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32You're going to struggle, and struggle big.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39And I'm not going to invest in you for that reason, and I'm out.
0:08:39 > 0:08:40Thank you.
0:08:42 > 0:08:45A sceptical Touker Suleyman makes his exit.
0:08:45 > 0:08:51Has the retail tycoon's criticism torpedoed the entrepreneur's chances
0:08:51 > 0:08:52with the rest of the Den?
0:08:58 > 0:09:03You've done well and you've come up with a good product, high quality,
0:09:03 > 0:09:05but...
0:09:06 > 0:09:09You've got the big players, the luggage manufacturers,
0:09:09 > 0:09:11who are all getting into this space.
0:09:11 > 0:09:12Into backpacks.
0:09:14 > 0:09:19I think you'd spent a lot of money and waste a lot of time going to retail.
0:09:19 > 0:09:21I'm not going to be investing today.
0:09:21 > 0:09:25- I'm afraid I'm out.- Thanks for your time.
0:09:25 > 0:09:29Alex. The fact that Touker's in this market and knows it well,
0:09:29 > 0:09:35and has told you that basically, he doesn't think it's going to amount to much is interesting.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38Because you have to take that on board.
0:09:38 > 0:09:42It's a tough business and coming in at 90k for 7%,
0:09:42 > 0:09:43I think you make it harder.
0:09:46 > 0:09:51But you're a very, very investable individual.
0:09:51 > 0:09:57- Thank you.- I can see a big opportunity if I was to help you put this into Jessops overnight.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00Not only would we prove Touker wrong,
0:10:00 > 0:10:03we'd prove Tej wrong as well because he said you wouldn't get into retail.
0:10:03 > 0:10:06In fact, you could get into retail in the next two minutes.
0:10:07 > 0:10:11Alex, I am going to make you an offer.
0:10:15 > 0:10:19But I want a decent sized return.
0:10:19 > 0:10:23So, I'm going to offer you all the money but I want 35% of the company.
0:10:27 > 0:10:31Would you agree with me that valuing the company at approximately
0:10:31 > 0:10:33£250,000 is too low?
0:10:36 > 0:10:38No, because for about 200,000,
0:10:38 > 0:10:41I introduced a brand that's doing just over £1 million worth of
0:10:41 > 0:10:43sales in this type of market.
0:10:43 > 0:10:46We are pretty much experts in that field.
0:10:48 > 0:10:49Thank you. Thanks for offer.
0:10:53 > 0:10:58A bullish offer from Peter Jones, one of Alex's preferred Dragons,
0:10:58 > 0:11:03but he is demanding a hefty 28% more equity than the entrepreneur wanted
0:11:03 > 0:11:08to give away, slashing the value of his company by over £1 million.
0:11:09 > 0:11:12Is Jenny Campbell poised to up the ante?
0:11:15 > 0:11:17The valuation of over a million...
0:11:17 > 0:11:20- Yeah.- Where's that derived from?
0:11:21 > 0:11:24I believe that everybody likes to negotiate a bit,
0:11:24 > 0:11:26so if I came with the most reasonable offer...
0:11:31 > 0:11:33I think you're very, very persuasive.
0:11:35 > 0:11:37So, I will make you an offer.
0:11:40 > 0:11:45For all of the money, for 25% of your business.
0:11:45 > 0:11:46Thank you.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52Two Dragons offer up their cash,
0:11:52 > 0:11:55but will the entrepreneur be enticed by either offer?
0:11:58 > 0:12:01I would like to ask Peter...
0:12:01 > 0:12:05I think my business is worth about ten times the profit
0:12:05 > 0:12:06if I evaluate it,
0:12:06 > 0:12:10so that would bring it to about 600,000,
0:12:10 > 0:12:12which would be 15%.
0:12:12 > 0:12:15- Is that a fair way to valuate it? - No.
0:12:15 > 0:12:20No. Because you're a start-up and I wouldn't even value it, potentially, at half that.
0:12:20 > 0:12:22But because it's a start-up, it has growth potential.
0:12:22 > 0:12:25It does. But you're asking me, would I value this at 600,000?
0:12:25 > 0:12:26I clearly wouldn't.
0:12:26 > 0:12:30I came here thinking that my maximum would be 15%,
0:12:30 > 0:12:34but I would really hope and appreciate if you took into account
0:12:34 > 0:12:35and accepted 20%.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41I think it's a large enough sum to keep you interested.
0:12:44 > 0:12:45Would I get my money back?
0:12:46 > 0:12:48Absolutely.
0:12:50 > 0:12:51I'll tell you what I will do.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53I would...
0:12:53 > 0:12:57offer you all the money for 35%
0:12:57 > 0:13:01and I would drop down to 25% when I received my money back.
0:13:03 > 0:13:07Would you consider accepting 20% when you get your money back?
0:13:07 > 0:13:08I think that's more than fair.
0:13:15 > 0:13:17Alex, I wouldn't. No.
0:13:17 > 0:13:19It's got to be 25.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24Alex, let me just tell you where I am because clearly been negotiating is going...
0:13:24 > 0:13:26Yeah, I'm sorry for leaving you out, Jenny.
0:13:26 > 0:13:29It is clear that you're targeting Peter for this investment.
0:13:31 > 0:13:35And, for that reason, I'm going to withdraw my offer and say that I'm out.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38I'm sorry. I'm sorry for talking to Peter too much.
0:13:38 > 0:13:40Thank you. Thank you.
0:13:40 > 0:13:43One deal summarily taken off the table.
0:13:44 > 0:13:48Leaving the entrepreneur at stalemate with Peter Jones.
0:13:53 > 0:13:55Alex, why don't you go to the back of the room and think about it?
0:13:57 > 0:14:03Will he accept the Dragon's offer of all the money for a 35% stake?
0:14:03 > 0:14:06- WHISPERS:- He's going to... He's going to accept it.
0:14:06 > 0:14:09Dropping to 25% when he gets his cash back.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17My worry is, because Jessops is only in one country,
0:14:17 > 0:14:22we wouldn't have enough sales to have the impact that
0:14:22 > 0:14:24I would want.
0:14:25 > 0:14:31If we have a Kickstarter project that does reach above £200,000,
0:14:31 > 0:14:33would you be willing to go down to 20%?
0:14:35 > 0:14:37Don't lose it for 5%.
0:14:42 > 0:14:44I don't understand, Alex, why would
0:14:44 > 0:14:47you go for a Kickstarter project when,
0:14:47 > 0:14:50next week, you would get an order for £200,000.
0:14:53 > 0:14:57You don't need Kickstarter if you've got a firestarter.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00If you do place an order of £200,000,
0:15:00 > 0:15:03would you be able to guarantee that now and accept 25%?
0:15:12 > 0:15:13Do you know what?
0:15:16 > 0:15:18I like the way you're negotiating.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21But if we do a deal,
0:15:21 > 0:15:23I want us to realise that it's a partnership.
0:15:23 > 0:15:26I wouldn't want to go through a relationship where we end up negotiating.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29I understand. One last question, would I have a salary included in this?
0:15:29 > 0:15:31A reasonable one.
0:15:33 > 0:15:35What's your reasonable salary?
0:15:35 > 0:15:38Would 30 be OK?
0:15:38 > 0:15:42You own 75% of this company, when my money's repaid,
0:15:42 > 0:15:45so you could be earning a lot more than that.
0:15:47 > 0:15:51You would in fact guarantee that you would place that order?
0:15:56 > 0:15:57I'll guarantee that.
0:15:59 > 0:16:00We have a deal.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04- Goodness.- Thank you very much.
0:16:04 > 0:16:05Thanks for your patience.
0:16:05 > 0:16:06No, well done. Great.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10- Good negotiation.- Thank you, guys. - Well done.- All the best.- Well done.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13Finally, after a hard-fought battle on both sides,
0:16:13 > 0:16:16Alex exits the Den with a deal.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21I would have preferred if it was 20%,
0:16:21 > 0:16:24but it feels amazing to have Peter Jones on board right now.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26- I really like him.- I'm jealous.
0:16:26 > 0:16:29Thank you. I'm really excited.
0:16:39 > 0:16:44Also hoping for a sackload of Dragon cash were Jonathan Brook and
0:16:44 > 0:16:46Hayley Hollonds, who came to the Den
0:16:46 > 0:16:48to pitch their unusual vegetable-based
0:16:48 > 0:16:50gifting service.
0:16:50 > 0:16:53Text A Potato.
0:16:53 > 0:16:58Text A Potato sends personalised, hand-written messages on potatoes.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02We now have potatoes for every occasion, including Mother's Day,
0:17:02 > 0:17:06Father's Day, birthdays and even proposals.
0:17:06 > 0:17:11The Aussie duo wanted a spud-tacular £40,000
0:17:11 > 0:17:14in exchange for 30% equity.
0:17:14 > 0:17:16I've never seen a potato dispensing cash before,
0:17:16 > 0:17:17but there's always a first.
0:17:17 > 0:17:21Peter Jones wasn't sure about getting one of his five a day through the letterbox.
0:17:21 > 0:17:24What do people think when they receive a potato in the post?
0:17:24 > 0:17:27That's exactly it, Peter. It's meant to be the most random gift you can
0:17:27 > 0:17:31- possibly give.- No, it's gone past random.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33I think it's absolutely ridiculous.
0:17:33 > 0:17:38But Tej Lalvani was hungry to find out if the gift product proved there
0:17:38 > 0:17:40was such a thing as a free lunch.
0:17:40 > 0:17:42Presumably it's not edible, is it?
0:17:42 > 0:17:43The product is edible.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46We actually made sure that all our ink is nontoxic.
0:17:46 > 0:17:50People can still use it as a potato once they receive it.
0:17:50 > 0:17:54The other thing we do is we donate 10 cents of the wholesale price of
0:17:54 > 0:17:56the potato to a food charity group.
0:17:56 > 0:17:57See, that's lovely.
0:17:58 > 0:18:00That is really lovely.
0:18:00 > 0:18:03But it's still stupid.
0:18:03 > 0:18:07Which prompted Jenny Campbell to chip in with a question about the Aussie
0:18:07 > 0:18:08entrepreneurs' roots.
0:18:08 > 0:18:12What brought you to the UK? Is it because you think we're all bonkers?
0:18:12 > 0:18:15Well, we can't say too much because we're both half-British.
0:18:17 > 0:18:21Deborah Meaden wanted to know if they had dug up any other ideas.
0:18:21 > 0:18:23Guys, have you got anything else?
0:18:23 > 0:18:28We've got a musical gift card that doesn't shut up for eight hours
0:18:28 > 0:18:30unless you burn it or put it under water.
0:18:30 > 0:18:34An equally irrepressible Touker Suleyman was also the gift that kept
0:18:34 > 0:18:37- on giving.- Is there a potato board?
0:18:38 > 0:18:39A potato board?
0:18:39 > 0:18:42A body that represents potato growers.
0:18:42 > 0:18:46You might get your investment by saying you could PR for them.
0:18:46 > 0:18:49I'll tell you what, this could be a marriage made in heaven.
0:18:50 > 0:18:54Touker and you two potato sacks, it works perfectly for me.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57But a potato Dragon partnership wasn't to be.
0:18:57 > 0:18:59You're going to make some people smile,
0:18:59 > 0:19:01but I'm going to get out before the puns turn up.
0:19:02 > 0:19:04Absolutely crazy.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07To invest, I'd probably be a potato head, so unfortunately...
0:19:07 > 0:19:09- There you go.- I'm out.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12It's not smashing, and so I'm out.
0:19:12 > 0:19:13- Thank you, Peter.- Thank you.
0:19:13 > 0:19:18As the Dragons unanimously said tatty bye to the Text A Potato twosome,
0:19:18 > 0:19:21their investment dreams well and truly mashed.
0:19:21 > 0:19:23I think I've now seen it all.
0:19:23 > 0:19:27- This is not real.- I'm just checking, this isn't real, this is a dream.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37Next into the Den is Rayeesa Asghar-Sandys,
0:19:37 > 0:19:40who's hoping her investment offering will
0:19:40 > 0:19:43prove more palatable to the Dragons.
0:19:43 > 0:19:45I know what the demand is,
0:19:45 > 0:19:48I know what people want and what they are looking for.
0:19:48 > 0:19:52If you try our products, you will love them and you will buy them.
0:19:52 > 0:19:56But will the Dragons buy into her investment opportunity?
0:20:05 > 0:20:07Hello, Dragons. My name is Rayeesa.
0:20:07 > 0:20:09I'm here today to introduce you to
0:20:09 > 0:20:12my innovative brand, Spiced by Rayeesa.
0:20:12 > 0:20:18I'm looking for a £75,000 investment in return for a 12% share of my business.
0:20:18 > 0:20:20Now, my background is in policing
0:20:20 > 0:20:23and after 17 years as a Met police officer,
0:20:23 > 0:20:26my family and I moved from London to Herefordshire.
0:20:26 > 0:20:30It was here that I got to explore my passion for cooking Indian food.
0:20:30 > 0:20:36I would often batch cook some curry sauce base and freeze it to use later when I didn't have time.
0:20:36 > 0:20:41Not only was this really convenient but it actually tasted really fresh.
0:20:41 > 0:20:43It gave me the idea for the perfect curry sauce.
0:20:43 > 0:20:48So I started selling at local farmers markets and then through local stockists.
0:20:48 > 0:20:52People loved the fresh-frozen concept.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55The next year, my daughter came on board and helped me.
0:20:55 > 0:20:59We developed the Spiced by Rayeesa brand, which is what you see today.
0:20:59 > 0:21:02In fact, we've become known as the Spice Girls.
0:21:04 > 0:21:09Our products are now distributed through a national distributor.
0:21:10 > 0:21:15We've been approached by high-street retailers Sainsbury's and Iceland,
0:21:15 > 0:21:18and we've also been approached by Ocado.
0:21:18 > 0:21:21We've got the perfect product for this market and I'm looking for the
0:21:21 > 0:21:26perfect Dragon or Dragons to come and join me on this journey.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29- Now, who would like to try some? - Yes, please.- Yep.- Great.
0:21:32 > 0:21:35Fresh curry sauce frozen is the offering from Rayeesa Asghar-Sandys.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40- All for me?- Please take a basket.
0:21:40 > 0:21:46- Thank you.- The ex-police officer wants to collar £75,000 in return
0:21:46 > 0:21:49for 12% equity in her spice-based business.
0:21:49 > 0:21:52- What a lovely presentation. - Thank you.
0:21:52 > 0:21:56But is it an arresting proposition for Touker Suleyman?
0:21:59 > 0:22:03So, the curry market
0:22:03 > 0:22:05is quite saturated.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08- You're correct.- There's a lot of players out there.
0:22:08 > 0:22:13I just want to know where you sit amongst your competition.
0:22:13 > 0:22:16Right, well, I wanted to have a product that offers something
0:22:16 > 0:22:18that the other products didn't.
0:22:18 > 0:22:20The first thing it offers is total freshness.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23- Right.- OK. We don't pasteurise our food.
0:22:23 > 0:22:27We cook it slowly and then it's simply frozen so you can't get
0:22:27 > 0:22:32a more natural flavour and natural quality of food.
0:22:32 > 0:22:36The other thing is, a lot of products that are currently available are not
0:22:36 > 0:22:39really for healthy diets.
0:22:39 > 0:22:43We are all gluten free, dairy free, nut free and sugar free.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46As well as being low in salt and low in fat.
0:22:46 > 0:22:51OK. Is there any other brand who is your direct competitor that is doing
0:22:51 > 0:22:53exactly what you're doing?
0:22:53 > 0:22:56- No.- Are you sure about that? - I'm absolutely sure.
0:22:56 > 0:22:57OK, right, fine.
0:22:57 > 0:23:00Do you believe that someone could easily copy you?
0:23:00 > 0:23:02Yes, they can certainly copy the concept.
0:23:02 > 0:23:04They can't copy my recipes, though.
0:23:04 > 0:23:08You haven't got a patent on the recipes, so it can be copied quite easily.
0:23:08 > 0:23:09You're right, Touker.
0:23:09 > 0:23:14It can be copied. So you are totally relying on your brand.
0:23:14 > 0:23:15Yes, absolutely.
0:23:18 > 0:23:23Freezer fan Rayeesa is counting on her range standing out from the crowd.
0:23:23 > 0:23:27Will new Dragon and vitamin tycoon Tej Lalvani see
0:23:27 > 0:23:29a healthy retail opportunity?
0:23:31 > 0:23:35Well done on moving from police work into setting up your own business.
0:23:35 > 0:23:38- Thank you.- How is it in a family business?
0:23:38 > 0:23:40Really, really good fun.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42Because you're family, you can really kind of
0:23:42 > 0:23:46tell each other what you think but then always working towards getting
0:23:46 > 0:23:49- the best out of the business. - Exactly, I understand where you're coming from.
0:23:49 > 0:23:54I come from a family business. It was set up by my father in '71, who was a scientist.
0:23:54 > 0:23:55I can understand the dynamics.
0:23:55 > 0:23:58You're striving towards achieving a goal, which is great.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01I also
0:24:01 > 0:24:05think that Indian food today, the healthy angle is very important.
0:24:05 > 0:24:09- Thank you.- In fact, we actually opened a healthy Indian restaurant,
0:24:09 > 0:24:13came up with some innovative dishes and in fact we've got some patents
0:24:13 > 0:24:16on the curries.
0:24:16 > 0:24:19The conversations you've had with some of the big retailers...
0:24:20 > 0:24:23What has the main challenge been with it?
0:24:23 > 0:24:27They said, we love it but we don't know that people are going to walk to the freezer,
0:24:27 > 0:24:30and I totally agree with them because the freezer section is
0:24:30 > 0:24:33a bit like a morgue when you walk in.
0:24:33 > 0:24:35But the question is...
0:24:35 > 0:24:37By the way, it tastes really good.
0:24:37 > 0:24:39- That's really lovely. - Thank you, Deborah.
0:24:39 > 0:24:44So, the question is, if the supermarkets can't find where to put it, they won't stock it.
0:24:46 > 0:24:49Where do you see this sitting in store?
0:24:49 > 0:24:51Right, I'm glad you asked that, Deborah.
0:24:51 > 0:24:56Because very recently I walked into a major supermarket and I walked
0:24:56 > 0:24:59in the pet aisle, and to my surprise
0:24:59 > 0:25:02there was a freezer right in the middle
0:25:02 > 0:25:03of these tins.
0:25:03 > 0:25:06I thought that's exactly what I need to do.
0:25:06 > 0:25:12So my vision is to get these upright freezers directly next to the jars
0:25:12 > 0:25:15of curry sauces and packets and mixes,
0:25:15 > 0:25:18so people don't have to travel to the freezer.
0:25:19 > 0:25:22That's going to be quite a bit of work to try and get that.
0:25:22 > 0:25:24I'm absolutely ready for the work.
0:25:27 > 0:25:30Fighting talk from the curry entrepreneur.
0:25:30 > 0:25:36But sauce supremo Peter Jones is sceptical about her unconventional
0:25:36 > 0:25:37stand-up freezer strategy.
0:25:39 > 0:25:42- Rayeesa.- Hi.- You've got the smallest percentage chance
0:25:42 > 0:25:44that that will ever, ever happen.
0:25:45 > 0:25:46I don't think it's possible.
0:25:48 > 0:25:51- I've seen it done.- Where have you seen it done?
0:25:51 > 0:25:53- Tesco.- Pet food, though.
0:25:53 > 0:25:56But it wouldn't take much to move it to another aisle.
0:25:56 > 0:25:58Yeah. I think it would.
0:25:58 > 0:26:01Space is so tight in supermarkets, brands are so strong,
0:26:01 > 0:26:04then you're competing against the majors.
0:26:04 > 0:26:07They'll speak to the buyers, they will say to them,
0:26:07 > 0:26:10"We don't want to see this getting this prominence."
0:26:10 > 0:26:14You need to have a large amount of money behind you to even persuade
0:26:14 > 0:26:16them to really get behind it.
0:26:16 > 0:26:19Well, we've been doing a lot of legwork.
0:26:19 > 0:26:20We've been selling at shows.
0:26:20 > 0:26:22We think the customers will speak for themselves.
0:26:22 > 0:26:25But the customer won't get to know about the product.
0:26:25 > 0:26:29You're not going to get it ranged in a supermarket and positioned,
0:26:29 > 0:26:30you haven't got enough capital.
0:26:32 > 0:26:34You could well be right, Peter.
0:26:34 > 0:26:38But I'm not going to rule out anything unless I've tried every avenue.
0:26:41 > 0:26:4475K is not even going to touch the sides, let alone build a brand.
0:26:45 > 0:26:48- You need seven figures.- Wow.
0:26:48 > 0:26:51You need a lot of money. It's just not reality.
0:26:53 > 0:26:57It's not a business that I can see a potential for serious growth and
0:26:57 > 0:26:59that's why I can't invest and I'm out.
0:26:59 > 0:27:01Thank you, Peter.
0:27:02 > 0:27:07No cash for the spicy sauces from a deeply dubious Peter Jones.
0:27:08 > 0:27:10Now, Touker Suleyman
0:27:10 > 0:27:15wants to find out how healthy Rayeesa's financial forecast is.
0:27:15 > 0:27:17Let's look at the numbers for next year.
0:27:17 > 0:27:20So, for the next 12 months, what will your turnover be?
0:27:20 > 0:27:24- Right, well, we are looking at 60,000 turnover.- Right.
0:27:24 > 0:27:28With a loss of 10,000.
0:27:28 > 0:27:31Year two, we are looking at a 114,000 turnover.
0:27:31 > 0:27:33- Yeah.- With a profit of 10,000.
0:27:33 > 0:27:35- OK.- Year three.
0:27:35 > 0:27:39- Yep.- We are looking at 340,000 turnover.
0:27:39 > 0:27:44- Yeah.- With a profit of 110,000.
0:27:44 > 0:27:46Right.
0:27:46 > 0:27:48- Forget year four.- That's enough?
0:27:48 > 0:27:50My crystal ball doesn't go that far.
0:27:50 > 0:27:53- OK.- When do you think I'll get a return on my investment?
0:27:53 > 0:27:56- Years four and five. - Year four and five?
0:27:56 > 0:27:58Yeah. If not sooner. It's all dependent on...
0:27:58 > 0:28:01It doesn't look like it, from what you're telling me.
0:28:01 > 0:28:03I understand, Touker, but the thing is we are
0:28:03 > 0:28:07innovative and we are literally carving a market for ourselves.
0:28:07 > 0:28:11You can be all the innovation you want to be,
0:28:11 > 0:28:16but the numbers do not show me that at the moment you are investable.
0:28:16 > 0:28:18It's a niche little family business.
0:28:22 > 0:28:27You haven't convinced me today that there is a business that can make
0:28:27 > 0:28:31money in the next few years, so on that basis I'm not going to invest today.
0:28:31 > 0:28:33- Thank you, Touker. - I'm out.
0:28:35 > 0:28:41Another blow for the entrepreneur as Touker Suleyman also puts a deal in the deep freeze.
0:28:41 > 0:28:45Are the rest of the Den equally cool about offering their cash?
0:28:49 > 0:28:54I love curry, and my little taste of this, it's delicious.
0:28:54 > 0:28:58- Thanks, Jenny.- But your numbers are about as hot as a mild korma.
0:29:00 > 0:29:05Dealing with the major supermarkets is, is very, very difficult.
0:29:05 > 0:29:07That said,
0:29:07 > 0:29:11I have seen the freezer concept you're talking about with home-made meals...
0:29:11 > 0:29:14- Yeah.- ..in what I call the second-tier supermarkets.
0:29:14 > 0:29:16Budgens, Londis.
0:29:16 > 0:29:19- Yeah.- Spar. So you may get some traction there.
0:29:19 > 0:29:21But it's going to be a little bit of a long journey.
0:29:21 > 0:29:25I don't doubt that you've got the persistence and determination to do that.
0:29:25 > 0:29:28But it's not an investment that I would want to get involved in.
0:29:28 > 0:29:30- OK.- So I'm out.
0:29:30 > 0:29:31Thanks, Jenny.
0:29:33 > 0:29:38The dream investment is good person, good product.
0:29:38 > 0:29:41I can tick both of those boxes.
0:29:42 > 0:29:44I can feel your strength.
0:29:44 > 0:29:47I can feel that you're going to be determined.
0:29:47 > 0:29:49You've got a lovely product.
0:29:49 > 0:29:53But the technicalities around the market are,
0:29:53 > 0:29:56and the issues that they raise, are huge.
0:29:58 > 0:29:59It's a real shame.
0:29:59 > 0:30:02But I won't be investing.
0:30:02 > 0:30:03- All right.- I'm out.
0:30:03 > 0:30:04Thank you, Deborah.
0:30:06 > 0:30:07Four Dragons gone.
0:30:07 > 0:30:11Only Tej Lalvani has yet to declare.
0:30:11 > 0:30:16Will he be the Dragon to put some financial heat behind the frozen foods?
0:30:18 > 0:30:20I like what you've done.
0:30:20 > 0:30:23I think working with you would be great.
0:30:23 > 0:30:27And I think you're in a market that is growing, with the health aspects,
0:30:27 > 0:30:29particularly with Indian food, it's a new spin.
0:30:29 > 0:30:31Yeah.
0:30:31 > 0:30:34So I think your business is actually online.
0:30:34 > 0:30:37- Yeah.- Because you don't have the refrigeration problem online.
0:30:38 > 0:30:42Ocado, Sainsbury's online, those retailers.
0:30:42 > 0:30:47What I would do is market with recipes, blogs, build your brand that way.
0:30:47 > 0:30:49- Follow that path.- Yeah.
0:30:49 > 0:30:51And you'll do well.
0:30:54 > 0:30:57But unfortunately it's not an investment for me today, so I'm out.
0:30:57 > 0:31:00Thank you. Thank you very much.
0:31:00 > 0:31:03So, praise for the entrepreneur and her product,
0:31:03 > 0:31:07but Rayeesa still exits the Den without a deal.
0:31:11 > 0:31:14I know I can make Spice by Rayeesa work.
0:31:15 > 0:31:21And I'm determined to succeed and you will see these in the supermarkets one day.
0:31:33 > 0:31:38With a £90,000 investment already in the bag,
0:31:38 > 0:31:41it's question time for the remaining entrepreneurs.
0:31:41 > 0:31:42Why is it such a low margin?
0:31:42 > 0:31:45Have you had experience running a business?
0:31:45 > 0:31:48But any wrong answers could cost them an investment.
0:31:48 > 0:31:50I find myself quite offended.
0:31:50 > 0:31:52I don't understand.
0:31:52 > 0:31:54You're not facing reality.
0:31:54 > 0:31:55You've spent two million?
0:31:55 > 0:31:56Yes.
0:31:58 > 0:31:59I need a drink.
0:32:03 > 0:32:07The next entrepreneur vying for an investment is Dorset-based inventor
0:32:07 > 0:32:09Michael Gormley.
0:32:11 > 0:32:13The product we have now, it is unique.
0:32:13 > 0:32:17And there's a big market for it, so we're very hopeful.
0:32:17 > 0:32:21Michael thinks his former career in the Army will prove a good training
0:32:21 > 0:32:23ground for his time in the Den.
0:32:23 > 0:32:26A military background does help.
0:32:26 > 0:32:28It gives you self-discipline and confidence
0:32:28 > 0:32:31when confronted with Dragons.
0:32:38 > 0:32:41Hello. Nice to meet you all.
0:32:41 > 0:32:45My name is Michael. I am an inventor.
0:32:45 > 0:32:49I am also a director of Go Bubble Ltd.
0:32:49 > 0:32:52I am here today to ask for 200,000
0:32:52 > 0:32:58in return for a 5% share of the company.
0:32:58 > 0:33:04Go Bubble is a two-part system that seals and preserves
0:33:04 > 0:33:07an opened bottle of champagne.
0:33:09 > 0:33:12This is the closure. It goes on the top of the bottle.
0:33:13 > 0:33:18Once locked in place, this second part, the carbonator,
0:33:18 > 0:33:20is inserted and twisted.
0:33:22 > 0:33:25That operation, the initial injection of gas,
0:33:25 > 0:33:31forces the air already in the bottle out through a vent in the side.
0:33:31 > 0:33:33The bottle is now perfectly preserved.
0:33:34 > 0:33:38The market for this - every bar, restaurant, hotel,
0:33:38 > 0:33:41who sells champagne by the glass.
0:33:41 > 0:33:45Each glass as good as the last for just 20p.
0:33:45 > 0:33:51We've got over 200,000 outlets in the UK alone.
0:33:51 > 0:33:54Just a 7% penetration of these
0:33:54 > 0:34:00would realise a net profit of £3 million.
0:34:00 > 0:34:02Since 2012,
0:34:02 > 0:34:07sparkling in the UK's consumption has increased 80%.
0:34:07 > 0:34:09It's a bit of a revolution.
0:34:09 > 0:34:12I'm saying let's join that revolution.
0:34:12 > 0:34:14Let's make some money. And to finish,
0:34:14 > 0:34:16I would like to serve you out of a bottle
0:34:16 > 0:34:19that we actually opened nearly four weeks ago.
0:34:21 > 0:34:25Michael Gormley hopes he'll have something to celebrate once the Dragons
0:34:25 > 0:34:28have sampled his champagne preserving gadget.
0:34:28 > 0:34:30Sorry it's only so little.
0:34:30 > 0:34:37He wants £200,000 in exchange for a 5% share of his Go Bubble business.
0:34:37 > 0:34:39- Good health, Dragons.- Cheers.
0:34:39 > 0:34:41Good investment is more to the point.
0:34:41 > 0:34:44Will an investment sparkle for Touker Suleyman?
0:34:46 > 0:34:48- Michael...- Yes.
0:34:48 > 0:34:50You said you were an inventor.
0:34:50 > 0:34:54- Yes.- Tell us about how you got here.
0:34:54 > 0:34:56I was in the forces when I was young,
0:34:56 > 0:34:58mending helicopters principally.
0:34:58 > 0:35:03A lot of work on gas turbine engines, so that gave me that brain.
0:35:03 > 0:35:11And I had the idea initially of creating something to keep cola from going flat.
0:35:11 > 0:35:15In the course of the development of that, this came up.
0:35:18 > 0:35:21A credible trajectory from Army to innovation,
0:35:21 > 0:35:27but the entrepreneur's invention seems to have left Deborah Meaden feeling a little flat.
0:35:29 > 0:35:32Mine isn't as bubbly as I would expect it to be.
0:35:35 > 0:35:40Let me tell you, our sales director is a wine connoisseur.
0:35:40 > 0:35:44He has one of the best noses in Britain, apparently.
0:35:44 > 0:35:47He assures us that this does the job.
0:35:47 > 0:35:52This has travelled with a prototype top on.
0:35:52 > 0:35:54They are not designed to travel...
0:35:54 > 0:35:56Stop, you said prototype.
0:35:56 > 0:35:58- Yes.- Have you patented it?
0:35:58 > 0:35:59- Yes.- You have a patent?
0:35:59 > 0:36:03This is in its initial patented phase...
0:36:03 > 0:36:07- Right.- ..And is due to go onto the next stage of that patenting.
0:36:07 > 0:36:11OK. You've come up with a valuation of 200,000 for 5%?
0:36:11 > 0:36:14- That's right.- So £4 million?
0:36:14 > 0:36:19- Yes.- I am assuming a valuation of £4 million
0:36:19 > 0:36:22- must have some sales. - No.
0:36:24 > 0:36:28We have put it in places, but it's a prototype product.
0:36:28 > 0:36:31- You have put it into places, how many?- Five in total.
0:36:33 > 0:36:38A trial product with zero turnover and a valuation based on future
0:36:38 > 0:36:42potential can be a lethal cocktail in the Den.
0:36:42 > 0:36:46Is a hangover already setting in for Peter Jones?
0:36:49 > 0:36:54I'm OK with people investing in a business where it is pre-revenue,
0:36:54 > 0:36:55I understand that model.
0:36:57 > 0:37:00How much money have you raised for this business?
0:37:00 > 0:37:01Two million to date.
0:37:03 > 0:37:05- You've spent two million? - Yes.
0:37:06 > 0:37:08Where did you get that two million from?
0:37:08 > 0:37:11A private investor.
0:37:11 > 0:37:13And he said I really like the idea?
0:37:13 > 0:37:17- Yes.- And his company has invested £2 million?
0:37:17 > 0:37:20- To date.- And how much of that two million is still with the business?
0:37:22 > 0:37:23It's all spent.
0:37:23 > 0:37:26- So you've spent the two million? - Yes.
0:37:26 > 0:37:30- Who owns the company? - He owns 90%, I own ten.
0:37:30 > 0:37:31Oh.
0:37:32 > 0:37:34OK, and is he here waiting to come in?
0:37:35 > 0:37:39- No.- Why?
0:37:39 > 0:37:40He's on holiday at the moment.
0:37:43 > 0:37:46You should have brought your main investor here.
0:37:46 > 0:37:48You have got a 90% shareholder
0:37:48 > 0:37:51that's not here and that's a big thing.
0:37:51 > 0:37:52I need a drink.
0:37:54 > 0:37:58Michael's admission that he owns just 10% of a company that has
0:37:58 > 0:38:02already soaked up some serious cash is a sobering revelation.
0:38:04 > 0:38:09Now Tej Lalvani, chief executive of a multinational brand,
0:38:09 > 0:38:12wants to know who is the boss at Go Bubble?
0:38:12 > 0:38:14Who is going to run this business?
0:38:14 > 0:38:16Myself.
0:38:16 > 0:38:18- Seriously?- Seriously.
0:38:18 > 0:38:20Sorry, have you had experience running a business?
0:38:20 > 0:38:24I have a property portfolio, yes.
0:38:24 > 0:38:26A property portfolio managing tenants?
0:38:26 > 0:38:29That's a very different thing to launching a new product.
0:38:29 > 0:38:30You have no orders.
0:38:32 > 0:38:34You are not facing reality.
0:38:36 > 0:38:40Do you really believe that you are going to get an investment today?
0:38:40 > 0:38:44I was hoping you would listen to me but so far no-one has.
0:38:46 > 0:38:51The model is actually based on the cartridge sales and it's the repeat
0:38:51 > 0:38:57sales from the cartridges that generate the money and that is why it's clever.
0:38:57 > 0:39:02Michael, I find myself quite offended by the fact that you've said to
0:39:02 > 0:39:04the Dragons that we're not listening.
0:39:04 > 0:39:06I haven't actually said anything yet.
0:39:07 > 0:39:08You believe in this,
0:39:08 > 0:39:13and invention is wonderful and we have to have inventions to land the
0:39:13 > 0:39:16thing that makes a success in the end.
0:39:16 > 0:39:19I might have said to you, "I love this, I am going to invest."
0:39:19 > 0:39:22I'm really sorry, I certainly didn't mean to be.
0:39:22 > 0:39:25It was only because I wanted to explain the cartridge resales.
0:39:25 > 0:39:27You believe in this but this is absolutely crazy.
0:39:27 > 0:39:30I think the bubbles have gone to a lot of people's heads and for that
0:39:30 > 0:39:32reason I'm going to say I'm out.
0:39:33 > 0:39:37Jenny Campbell bursts Michael's bubble by failing to finance a deal.
0:39:39 > 0:39:42Has the air gone out of an investment for the other Dragons?
0:39:44 > 0:39:47OK, it's lovely, beautiful looking,
0:39:47 > 0:39:50it's the type of thing I'm sure I would love to own.
0:39:50 > 0:39:53But you haven't even got the patent yet, have you?
0:39:53 > 0:39:57- Yes, we have. - Oh, you've got the patent, I thought you were in process.
0:39:57 > 0:40:01The British patent is applied for and then the next stage is to go to European.
0:40:01 > 0:40:03No, applied for, have you got the patent?
0:40:03 > 0:40:04Is it granted?
0:40:06 > 0:40:07Um...
0:40:07 > 0:40:09The...
0:40:09 > 0:40:13The predecessor of that is granted.
0:40:13 > 0:40:15So this does not have a patent on it?
0:40:15 > 0:40:17- Well, it will do effectively. - Yes, but it hasn't.
0:40:19 > 0:40:20You've got a prototype.
0:40:20 > 0:40:24I do not understand how
0:40:24 > 0:40:27you think you can value this at £4 million.
0:40:27 > 0:40:30It's really quite simple. There really is a market out there.
0:40:30 > 0:40:33It's not a good idea... I'm actually quite smart.
0:40:33 > 0:40:38- You'd be surprised, so am I. - I'm quite smart, I see a lot of businesses,
0:40:38 > 0:40:42I see a lot of businesses that have got a lot of patents applied for
0:40:42 > 0:40:44and I see the values based on those businesses.
0:40:44 > 0:40:46This is about the potential.
0:40:49 > 0:40:53The product is six months from production.
0:40:53 > 0:40:55- Six months!- Then we can start selling.
0:40:55 > 0:40:58- Six months from production! - Yes.
0:40:59 > 0:41:01I'm going to say these words to you,
0:41:01 > 0:41:04you have got a prototype and you don't have a patent,
0:41:04 > 0:41:10I'm never going to invest at anything close to that valuation, so, I am out.
0:41:11 > 0:41:15A patently unimpressed Deborah Meaden dismisses a deal.
0:41:16 > 0:41:19And Touker Suleyman looks to have made up his mind.
0:41:22 > 0:41:25All I can tell you is the fizz has gone out of this one.
0:41:27 > 0:41:29I'm not going to invest.
0:41:29 > 0:41:32- I wish you all the best, Michael. - Thank you.- And I'm out.
0:41:35 > 0:41:38Michael, you mentioned that you're going to run the company, but with
0:41:38 > 0:41:4010% you can't run the company,
0:41:40 > 0:41:43if 90% is owned by someone else who is not here.
0:41:43 > 0:41:46I actually think you are wasting everyone's time.
0:41:48 > 0:41:49So I'm out.
0:41:51 > 0:41:55Four Dragons have now put paid to Michael's investment dreams.
0:41:55 > 0:41:58Only Peter Jones remains.
0:41:58 > 0:42:03Will his verdict leave the entrepreneur toasting success or drowning his sorrows?
0:42:04 > 0:42:07Your product seems brilliant.
0:42:09 > 0:42:11But very niche.
0:42:11 > 0:42:14I understand you picking on perhaps a Michelin-star restaurant where
0:42:14 > 0:42:18perhaps they would want to offer perhaps a £50 glass of champagne.
0:42:18 > 0:42:21- Yes.- And your product I can see fits that bill really well.
0:42:21 > 0:42:23- Yes.- But that market opportunity is small.
0:42:23 > 0:42:271,500 units first year.
0:42:27 > 0:42:294,000 and then 8,000.
0:42:29 > 0:42:33That is a very small proportion of the market
0:42:33 > 0:42:35and we only need those sales
0:42:35 > 0:42:38to realise the three million net profit.
0:42:40 > 0:42:41So it's a win-win.
0:42:41 > 0:42:44Do you know what, I'm not going to disagree with that.
0:42:46 > 0:42:49But you have basically put the cart before the horse today.
0:42:51 > 0:42:54I can't invest in this because you've got nothing at the moment
0:42:54 > 0:42:57to invest in, so sadly I'm out.
0:43:02 > 0:43:07So, a full five rejections for the champagne entrepreneur.
0:43:07 > 0:43:11The Dragons failing to raise a glass to his investment opportunity.
0:43:13 > 0:43:16I wasn't trying to insult them, it is a start-up business,
0:43:16 > 0:43:21I was trying to tell them about the potential it has.
0:43:21 > 0:43:25I believe in this product, I think the Dragons are missing a trick.
0:43:25 > 0:43:29To my mind this is going to be the biggest they have ever missed.
0:43:29 > 0:43:33He should have given us a bottle each, that is what he should have done. That was his only chance!
0:43:33 > 0:43:35Might have done better.
0:43:42 > 0:43:46Last into the den is Yorkshire-based Claire Gelder,
0:43:46 > 0:43:50who has turned a hobby she loves into a thriving business.
0:43:50 > 0:43:54Claire thinks that investing in her company would reap financial rewards
0:43:54 > 0:44:00for the Dragons and provide the perfect antidote to the pressures of corporate life.
0:44:05 > 0:44:08It reduces stress, it alleviates depression...
0:44:09 > 0:44:16It just increases all of your happiness and people feel so content afterwards.
0:44:16 > 0:44:20But will the Dragons be satisfied that Claire's enterprise
0:44:20 > 0:44:23offers an uplifting investment opportunity?
0:44:32 > 0:44:34Hello, my name is Claire Gelder,
0:44:34 > 0:44:39and I am the managing director of the Wool Couture Company.
0:44:39 > 0:44:47Today, I'm here to ask for £50,000 in return for 10% of our business.
0:44:47 > 0:44:52Knitting has been around for thousands of years but recently
0:44:52 > 0:44:56there has been a real resurgence in this handcraft.
0:44:56 > 0:44:59We now have the likes of Kate Middleton,
0:44:59 > 0:45:03Uma Thurman and we even have Russell Crowe knitting and crocheting.
0:45:04 > 0:45:10We are an online retailer and we specialise in bigger yarn, tools,
0:45:10 > 0:45:14DIY kits and handmade finished products.
0:45:14 > 0:45:16But we do it with a difference.
0:45:16 > 0:45:20We believe that people no longer want to spend weeks and months
0:45:20 > 0:45:22handcrafting items.
0:45:22 > 0:45:26We have scarves that can be finished in an hour.
0:45:26 > 0:45:29We have hats that can be finished in two hours
0:45:29 > 0:45:31and even our giant blankets
0:45:31 > 0:45:34can be finished in an evening or two.
0:45:34 > 0:45:38We have been trading for 18 months through Etsy,
0:45:38 > 0:45:43Not On The High Street, and also our own website.
0:45:43 > 0:45:47We have sold over 13,000 units,
0:45:47 > 0:45:52we have taken over half a million pounds, and with your investment
0:45:52 > 0:46:01we can be the worldwide retailer of DIY kits in knitting, crochet, macrame and weaving.
0:46:01 > 0:46:05Now, Peter, can I give you a knitting lesson, please?
0:46:05 > 0:46:07Yeah.
0:46:08 > 0:46:12A cosy pitch from crafty entrepreneur Claire Gelder.
0:46:13 > 0:46:15Are the needles normally this big?
0:46:15 > 0:46:23She wants a sizeable £50,000 investment to go global with her giant knitting and weaving kits
0:46:23 > 0:46:26and in return she is offering a 10% stake.
0:46:26 > 0:46:28No, that's cheating.
0:46:28 > 0:46:31I've just invented a quicker way of doing it, though.
0:46:31 > 0:46:32This is called Pete's knit.
0:46:32 > 0:46:36Peter Jones appears pleased with the super-sized product,
0:46:36 > 0:46:40but Jenny Campbell wants to get a better handle on the entrepreneur's
0:46:40 > 0:46:42handicraft range.
0:46:43 > 0:46:45Obviously it has got some following, this large yarn,
0:46:45 > 0:46:48but where is the majority of the sales?
0:46:48 > 0:46:51My best selling product is a baby blanket.
0:46:51 > 0:46:55- OK.- So our target market are mums or mums-to-be.
0:46:55 > 0:46:59That's interesting because it's almost like you're trying to get a new generation into knitting.
0:46:59 > 0:47:03If it gets people off tablets and phones for a while and maybe you sit
0:47:03 > 0:47:07there chatting and having a glass of sherry or something, that's marvellous.
0:47:07 > 0:47:08Let me tell you something.
0:47:08 > 0:47:12I've suffered with depression since I was 18 years old, I manage it,
0:47:12 > 0:47:16it has never had me off work and the one thing that stops me from ever
0:47:16 > 0:47:21taking a tablet has been crafting because when I am not feeling good
0:47:21 > 0:47:24I can focus on something and it takes you out of that, "Oh, my God,
0:47:24 > 0:47:28"this might happen," into the here and now, and that is my therapy.
0:47:28 > 0:47:30Claire, good on you.
0:47:30 > 0:47:35- Thank you.- Congratulations on building an interesting business.
0:47:35 > 0:47:37Are you selling finished products as well like hats,
0:47:37 > 0:47:42- or is it just a kit for people to make it?- So, we do both.
0:47:42 > 0:47:46The likes of Vogue, New York Times, all of the magazines,
0:47:46 > 0:47:47want our hand-finished products.
0:47:47 > 0:47:50We never want to lose that side because I have people saying,
0:47:50 > 0:47:53"Can you send me this? Can you send me that?"
0:47:53 > 0:47:56And I like to be able to respond to it quickly.
0:47:59 > 0:48:04Claire is showing a canny knack for PR and getting her wool seen in all
0:48:04 > 0:48:05the right places,
0:48:05 > 0:48:10but it's the giant knitter's chunky turnover that has caught textile
0:48:10 > 0:48:12tycoon Touker Suleyman's attention.
0:48:15 > 0:48:17You've got a half a million turnover?
0:48:17 > 0:48:19In year one we took 140,000.
0:48:19 > 0:48:24- 140.- And in year two we took 370,000.
0:48:24 > 0:48:27370. And what was the gross profit?
0:48:27 > 0:48:2935%.
0:48:30 > 0:48:32So why is it such a low margin?
0:48:33 > 0:48:35I was quite proud of that.
0:48:35 > 0:48:37No, hold on.
0:48:37 > 0:48:40If you sell something online,
0:48:40 > 0:48:43it must be bigger than 35%.
0:48:43 > 0:48:49It is. For example, we have the DIY pom-pom hat here,
0:48:49 > 0:48:53so that has a cost of £10 to actually produce.
0:48:53 > 0:48:57- Right.- We would then retail that to customers at £50.
0:48:57 > 0:49:02Right, so your margin from £10 to 50 is not 35%.
0:49:03 > 0:49:05It's 80%.
0:49:08 > 0:49:11This 35% that you claim to be your margin,
0:49:11 > 0:49:14are you sure you are not talking about cost of sales?
0:49:14 > 0:49:18- Yes.- Are there any other costs that you put in your cost of goods?
0:49:18 > 0:49:20There is our postage.
0:49:20 > 0:49:25Your postage must be absolutely astronomical to reduce a margin
0:49:25 > 0:49:29that blends between 50 and 80 down to 35%.
0:49:29 > 0:49:31- It must be.- So we charge for the postage.
0:49:31 > 0:49:34Well, that's not it, so can we go back to the margin?
0:49:35 > 0:49:36I don't understand.
0:49:38 > 0:49:43What would worry me much more is that if you don't understand how you get to 35%
0:49:43 > 0:49:45because right now it's impossible.
0:49:47 > 0:49:52Our gross profit is our turnover
0:49:52 > 0:49:56minus our cost of our goods and
0:49:56 > 0:50:00- the labour...- And the labour, which labour?
0:50:00 > 0:50:02So that's the cost of me, my knitters.
0:50:02 > 0:50:05So your cost of goods is including your labour as well?
0:50:05 > 0:50:08Our gross profit is minus the labour.
0:50:08 > 0:50:10That is your answer, that's really good,
0:50:10 > 0:50:12- I just wish you'd said that at the beginning.- Apologies.
0:50:14 > 0:50:18Deborah Meaden's forensic breakdown of Claire's numbers reveals a
0:50:18 > 0:50:23healthier profit margin than the entrepreneur had realised.
0:50:23 > 0:50:27Now ex-banker Jenny Campbell wants to know if Claire is clearer
0:50:27 > 0:50:29about how she would use the cash.
0:50:32 > 0:50:35So, Claire, what do you want the Dragons' money for?
0:50:35 > 0:50:42I would really like to grow the American market and knitting is going to explode in China.
0:50:42 > 0:50:45I want to be the first one with the foot in there.
0:50:45 > 0:50:52Out of the 370,000 turnover last year how much of that was online to the US?
0:50:52 > 0:50:56- 25%.- Whoa! That's impressive.
0:50:58 > 0:51:01And what that tells me is there is a potential in America.
0:51:01 > 0:51:03There is a huge potential in America.
0:51:03 > 0:51:08We have 56 million knitters and we can also see the concentration of the States
0:51:08 > 0:51:11in which they are more active as well.
0:51:11 > 0:51:13What we have got to focus on is the market penetration,
0:51:13 > 0:51:16we've got to get more people knowing us.
0:51:16 > 0:51:20Is there anybody in the UK that is doing what you are doing?
0:51:20 > 0:51:22My biggest competition is Wool And The Gang.
0:51:22 > 0:51:25Their biggest yarn is our smallest yarn.
0:51:25 > 0:51:28I thought, "Right, I'm going to beat them out of the water."
0:51:30 > 0:51:33With a competitive edge and transatlantic expansion plan,
0:51:33 > 0:51:37it looks like Claire is back on track with the Dragons.
0:51:39 > 0:51:42Is an investment knitting together for Deborah Meaden?
0:51:47 > 0:51:50I think you've done a fantastic job.
0:51:50 > 0:51:53I can see exactly the market you are going for and actually the whole
0:51:53 > 0:51:57crafting thing, the mindfulness, the being in the present.
0:51:57 > 0:52:00It just buys into all of those things.
0:52:00 > 0:52:03I do worry about the longevity of it.
0:52:06 > 0:52:07And I am a little bit...
0:52:09 > 0:52:12..torn because I'm not sure...
0:52:14 > 0:52:18I'm going to go quiet for a minute while the other Dragons
0:52:18 > 0:52:20think about what they're doing.
0:52:25 > 0:52:29- I admire what you've done, your story is lovely.- Thank you.
0:52:30 > 0:52:36The big concern that I have is really the actual size of the market.
0:52:39 > 0:52:43I would imagine once you've done one or two,
0:52:43 > 0:52:46it could get a bit boring.
0:52:46 > 0:52:50- How much repeat business have you got?- 20%.- That is low.
0:52:50 > 0:52:55- That is low on such a thing as knitting, isn't it?- OK.
0:52:55 > 0:52:57I'm not overly convinced.
0:52:59 > 0:53:02If I'm not convinced, I can't invest, so I'm going to say I'm out.
0:53:04 > 0:53:08Peter Jones declines a chance to invest.
0:53:09 > 0:53:11Will Tej Lalvani,
0:53:11 > 0:53:15the Dragon who heads up a £300-million global brand,
0:53:15 > 0:53:18put his cash into the knitting kits?
0:53:18 > 0:53:21I think you're right, you do need to get your brand out there.
0:53:22 > 0:53:26Marketing is important and I can see the potential, although it is niche.
0:53:28 > 0:53:31My company does a lot of marketing. We're the largest advertisers in our
0:53:31 > 0:53:34industry, so I'm actually going to make you an offer.
0:53:37 > 0:53:41But I'd like to have another Dragon on board
0:53:41 > 0:53:43who understands the industry a bit more,
0:53:43 > 0:53:46so I'll offer you half the money,
0:53:46 > 0:53:51£25,000, but for 15% of the business.
0:53:53 > 0:53:57Which would mean another Dragon would have to match,
0:53:57 > 0:54:00so that would work out £50,000
0:54:00 > 0:54:04for 30% equity shared between two Dragons.
0:54:04 > 0:54:06Thank you for your offer. Thank you.
0:54:09 > 0:54:11Tej Lalvani is backing the business,
0:54:11 > 0:54:14but is only willing to put up half the cash.
0:54:14 > 0:54:16The rules of the Den dictate
0:54:16 > 0:54:18that Claire needs another investor to match
0:54:18 > 0:54:21this offer, or she will leave with nothing.
0:54:22 > 0:54:26Will Deborah Meaden be the Dragon to seal the deal?
0:54:28 > 0:54:30You're very good.
0:54:32 > 0:54:34You are going to make a big success of this.
0:54:37 > 0:54:39I do worry about the size of the market.
0:54:41 > 0:54:46I'm going to come down the side of I'm not going to invest by saying
0:54:46 > 0:54:48- I'm out.- Thank you, Deborah.
0:54:51 > 0:54:56Claire, I believe that you can make this into a bigger business, definitely.
0:55:00 > 0:55:03And I could be really tempted to make you probably a 50% offer.
0:55:06 > 0:55:09But I actually think I'm going to leave it to the ones who I believe
0:55:09 > 0:55:12can add most value to where you are going and say I'm out.
0:55:14 > 0:55:19Another Dragon down, and with just half an offer on the table,
0:55:19 > 0:55:22Claire's business dreams could be left in tatters.
0:55:24 > 0:55:29Unless fashion mogul Touker Suleyman pursues a deal and adds the wool
0:55:29 > 0:55:31craft kits to his existing investments.
0:55:32 > 0:55:34I love it.
0:55:36 > 0:55:39I believe I am the one Dragon that can take you
0:55:39 > 0:55:40to where you want to go.
0:55:41 > 0:55:45I could help you with creating a US website and localising it,
0:55:45 > 0:55:48new products, do it all for you.
0:55:48 > 0:55:51I'm willing to give you all the money but for 30%.
0:55:53 > 0:55:59At the same time you may well find that two Dragons are better than one
0:55:59 > 0:56:01and I'm willing to share
0:56:01 > 0:56:04one Dragon
0:56:04 > 0:56:07- or two Dragons.- Thank you very much for your offer.
0:56:08 > 0:56:11Two bids to choose from.
0:56:11 > 0:56:13I'm just going to take a minute.
0:56:13 > 0:56:17But with both demanding a 30% equity stake,
0:56:17 > 0:56:2020% more than Claire wanted to give away,
0:56:20 > 0:56:23will their expertise come at too high a price?
0:56:33 > 0:56:37I'm not going to quibble with you on the percentage of the business.
0:56:37 > 0:56:39I respect both of you,
0:56:39 > 0:56:42and I think I can see great opportunities with both of you.
0:56:42 > 0:56:45And I would like to accept the offer with both of you.
0:56:45 > 0:56:48- Great!- Well done.
0:56:48 > 0:56:50- Can I get a kiss?- OK.
0:56:51 > 0:56:53Well done, excellent, exciting.
0:56:53 > 0:56:55We'll make this really work.
0:56:55 > 0:56:57- I'm very pleased. - PETER:- Well done, Claire.
0:56:57 > 0:56:59Thank you.
0:56:59 > 0:57:02So, no negotiation but a double deal
0:57:02 > 0:57:06and a giant boost for the big wool business.
0:57:08 > 0:57:11I'm absolutely over the moon.
0:57:11 > 0:57:14To have secured not only one but two Dragons.
0:57:14 > 0:57:18I want to jump up and down and I want to do a dance and then I want
0:57:18 > 0:57:22to have the glass of champagne that I put in the fridge last night.
0:57:22 > 0:57:24I thought she was great.
0:57:24 > 0:57:26Well done, really pleased she got the investment.
0:57:26 > 0:57:29- And she deserves the investment. - So you are going to give her the website,
0:57:29 > 0:57:31you weren't just spinning her a yarn?
0:57:39 > 0:57:42To haggle or not to haggle,
0:57:42 > 0:57:46that is the question often facing a successful entrepreneur.
0:57:46 > 0:57:51Do you take the offer or do you risk losing it by hard bargaining?
0:57:51 > 0:57:53Well, Claire Gelder chose not to play tough,
0:57:53 > 0:57:57Alex Buzaianu, with his leather bags, went the other way.
0:57:57 > 0:57:59He took the risk and it paid off.
0:57:59 > 0:58:03So on this occasion both got what they wanted.
0:58:06 > 0:58:07Coming up next time...
0:58:07 > 0:58:13- Oh!- Never stand in front of anybody ever and say those words.
0:58:13 > 0:58:16- How much?- I think that's just ridiculous.
0:58:16 > 0:58:18I mean it's beyond ridiculous.
0:58:18 > 0:58:20Sorry, my voice has gone a bit...
0:58:20 > 0:58:25If you do not get a Dragon to invest today, you're in trouble.
0:58:25 > 0:58:27I really like it.
0:58:27 > 0:58:29- That's my offer.- Yeah, we'll do that.
0:58:29 > 0:58:30I'm very interested.
0:58:31 > 0:58:32Go on, Touker.
0:58:34 > 0:58:37I have no interest in sharing it. I'm a selfish Dragon.